From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7468 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2000 23:10:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Jan 2000 23:10:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FPqj-0006wG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:03:13 +0000 Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FPqh-0006rO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:03:11 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.8.) id l.bc.cb48ea (3875) for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:02:30 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:02:30 EST Subject: LF: G3ACQ - DF6NM in DFCW To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 62 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Laurie, hello all, that qso was very special for both of us: Your 1st DFCW contact (congrats!), and my 1st 2way-QSO with G-land. Thanks, Laurie, you've really made this a day! I am using only a short (15m) and low (6m above house and ground) antenna. This was the first QSO after moving the loading coil from indoors to a rooftop position on saturday. With that change, the gain had improved from -45dBi to -39dBi, and my ERP is a blasting 4mW (!) now. When you called you were OO with about -102dBm (S4, -2dBuV/m), but during the QSO the signal faded down to -10dBuV/m and became barely readable at the end. Also, the wires swinging in the wind caused substantial resonance shifts and tx-power variations. I recorded a spectrogram .bmp which I could send you by email. Hope to see you again soon... especially in DFCW, its a fantastic mode (at least for the very little baby boys like me). 73s de Markus, DF6NM in JN59NK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6828 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2000 01:34:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2000 01:34:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FRtA-0007rP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 01:13:52 +0000 Received: from tantalum.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.80]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FRt8-0007rK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 01:13:51 +0000 Received: from [213.1.137.145] (helo=default) by tantalum.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12FRsx-0003e6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 01:13:40 +0000 Message-ID: <000201bf6c50$fba5e500$918901d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Whoops, thanks Geri it was DF6NM Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 00:56:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, thanks Geri, at first I couldn't believe both Lawrie and I had read it wrong, but the 'D' is clearly there in the stored copy of the first call....I think I must have seen a 'DE' ...I should have known that there are only a handfull of F stations with permits (if they are still active), and the loop bearing was east or south of east. Still it was a nice contact for the aerial and power Markus was running...well done both. I suppose with the idea of only sending suffixes after the first call, there no opportunity to correct an error in the prefix. It also sounds like another plug for the centre/top loading coil. 73 de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12117 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2000 08:03:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2000 08:03:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FY9b-00026p-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 07:55:15 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from server.italway.it ([193.70.27.5] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FY9a-00026k-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 07:55:14 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from allstars (access15.italway.it [193.70.27.114]) by server.italway.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA00362 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 09:50:29 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20000201085937.0069c2d4@mail.italway.it> X-Sender: i5mxx@mail.italway.it (Unverified) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) [I] Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 08:59:37 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "i5mxx - Marzio" Subject: LF: LF weekend activity MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF guys! Spent few times this weekend for LF. Worked OG5UFO ( OH1TN new Y2K call hi....) and MM0ALM strong as usual. Heard in other qsos also G3KEV and OE5ODL. 73 de Marzio I5MXX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12056 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2000 10:16:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2000 10:16:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FaDZ-00035M-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 10:07:29 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FaDV-00035H-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 10:07:25 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA106790 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:07:16 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000201120517.2ca75bb0@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 12:05:17 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: transatlantic : the optimistic approach MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Trying another approach than just stating that it is nearly impossible to cross the pond on 136kHz I contacted some VO stations that are active on 80/160 and asked them if they wre interested in LF. I got a positive reply from VO1GO, Jerry, and asked him (as a first test) to listen for DCF39 and other signal in the 130-150kHz segment. Here is his responce : >Here are some more observations of my listening. At 0522 UTC, rtty >stations on 130kHz : 559, 133kHz : 589, 137kHz : 569 and 139kHz : 549-559. All the above signals are received with a TS140S and a 80m dipole used a T-antenna (dipole as topload, coax as vertical) but NOT tuned to 136kHz (just the antenna, no loading coil at all). I assume that the 139kHz signal heard was DCF39 and the 137kHz was CHF, who has any clue about the 130kHz and 133kHz signals ? Currently Gerry is not 'computerized' in his shack so he can not try QRSS or DFCW recepeption. But encouraged by the result he will contact a group of MW DX-ers in Newfoundland who might be better equipped for LF reception. So, let's focus on some practical tests and be optimistic (remember : the 'proffesional men' were ridiculizing the attempts of the 'amateur boys' to cross the atlantic on shortwave in the 1920's ... until the amateurs proved that they were right). 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17082 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2000 11:04:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2000 11:04:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Faxj-0003Pa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 10:55:11 +0000 Received: from mail1.isys.net ([193.96.224.45]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Faxi-0003PV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 10:55:10 +0000 Received: from a [195.64.97.107] by mail1.isys.net with esmtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 12Fb5r-00018z-00; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 12:03:35 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Klaus von der Heide" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:55:44 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Transatlantic In-reply-to: References: <3892A61A.C049A749@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello dear LF Friends, thanks for the many and divergent replies to my post! My Mother celebrated her 90th this weekend, so I didn't have any time to give an answer immediately. Now, let me quickly try some comments to the different points: 1. Science and HAM Radio ===================== Thanks to Gamal for his answer to Petr's serious question what HAM radio is ! May be, all discussions and experiments clearly say that a forest of 100 m towers, many DSP's and a super computer are necessary to get information on LF across the ocean. Then, Petr, OK1FIG, please ask again. My intention was to start a discussion on ideas that may be practicable for radio amateurs. As long as there is no answer we have to discuss - just as in science. 2. PSK vs. ASK =========== ASK keyes between sinus signal and no signal, PSK keyes between sinus and minus sinus. The distance between the two signal alternatives measured in voltage is doubled with PSK while the noise remains unchanged. If on the transmitting end the maximum power is limited (not the average power) the gain of PSK over ASK is 6 dB, i.e. to get the same SNR with ASK four times the power of PSK is necessary. If ASK is detected incoherently as usual a factor of 2 (3 dB) has to be added to this difference because more noise is received. Unfortunately with real channels the gain is not as great (see: DPSK). 3. Long Integration Time ===================== The ideas proposed by Andre', N4ICK, are good when ASK or FSK is used with non coherent reception. FSK would be the better choice. But a synchronization to time ticks of a second is not a problem. Following the comments of Larry, VA3LK, and Johan, SM6KL, GPS can be used. I prefer DCF77 or MSF because of its simplicity. In fact, if no information is sent then the result of a very long integration time is the same as integrating over many short time slots. The advantage of a one second period or even faster is a better averaging of non gaussian noise (especially in the case of ASK). Using a random bit pattern helps to minimize man made noise. Possibly, one should not use the second, but 5 minutes divided by a prime number to get away from anything that is synchronized to a clock. If real information is sent, then the transmitted bitrate should be considerably greater than the information bit rate. This is achieved by heavy coding with a low code rate. But that is not a point of discussion as long as even the carrier cannot be heard. 4. DPSK ==== Unfortunately, there comes a loss with PSK when the communication channel may vary in delay. A delay produces a phase shift, and a varying delay results in a changing phase. The symbol rate must be so fast that the change in phase from one to the next symbol is negligible. 136 kHz is about 14 MHz/100. On 20 m the symbol rates of PSK31 and Pactor2 (31 and 100 Hz) are in the optimum region of 20 ... 200 Hz. I simply guessed that 1/100 of that (1 Hz) should be good for LF although the waves may travel quite another way. As a consequence of the varying channel, one cannot use a constant reference phase. One therefore detects the difference between the last and the actual symbol. Because now the noisy last phase is used as reference instead of an absolute and noise free one this differential PSK (DPSK) has a loss of up to 3 dB over the absolute PSK. At extremely low signal level FSK is as good as DPSK. Therefore FSK should remain in this discussion. 5. Coherence ========= As mentioned above, coherent detection gives a better SNR. But, if the signal is so weak that the time to transmit one single information bit (that means identification of the carrier) is longer than the period of approximately constant phase then the 3 dB gain of coherence are lost. In other words: If you cannot keep track of the carrier things get worse. Using a milliwatt on 20 m it's the same situation and 2 m aurora too, the only difference is in the time scale. Where are we on LF? Is something known about QSB periods on transatlantic LF? If the typical QSB-period is a few minutes long or faster coherent detection is impossible. I then would try FSK keyed with a random pattern at a symbol clock of 1 per second up to 1 per minute. 6. Phased Array / Synthetic Aperture ================================= Paul, OH3LWR, is right in pointing out the problem of a complex radiation pattern with many "fingers". That's the reason why I proposed a mean distance of a quarter of the wavelength. Then nearly the maximum gain can be achieved with only one main lobe. There are many different possibilities for the realization of the correct phasing of transmitting and receiving antennas. These should carefully be discussed. Paul's proposal to use a local BC or TV station seems to me a practical one. 73 de Klaus, DJ5HG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29636 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2000 11:21:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2000 11:21:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FbFU-0003Z0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 11:13:32 +0000 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FbFS-0003Yv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 11:13:31 +0000 Received: from modem-29.astaldo.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.129.29] helo=lvm) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12FbFM-0000yh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 11:13:25 +0000 Message-ID: <000201bf6ca5$5a36aec0$1d81883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re.DF6NM Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:11:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi Marcus,Hi Alan.
Oh! dear I did get it wrong didnt I,it was such a surprise to see your call Marcus that I missed the start so lost the  D  in your  prefix, but as Alan says I should have known that it was unlikely to be a French station.Still Alan got it wrong also so I dont feel too bad,and it was a great contact.Congratulations on your station Marcus,my Ant is an Inv L at 13m with 3 top loading wires 30m long and my power 300 watts.I recieve on a sort of grounded loop 150m long but only 6m high!
I should very much like to see my signals, so if you could sent the spegtrogram that would be great.Perhaps we could exchange QSL cards for this contact.I too hope to see you again on DFCW but must practice visual morse first hi!
73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19662 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2000 12:55:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2000 12:55:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Fci5-0004FF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 12:47:09 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Fci4-0004FA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 12:47:08 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA30364 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 12:47:03 GMT X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <2000020112470768199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 12:47:07 GMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re: 73kHz tests and QSOs Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit I set up my LF satation for 73kHz although not expecting very much after what Dave G3YMC said: > Don't all get too excited about the prospect of Rugby being off Tuesday. > The 60kHz transmitter is indeed often off on the first Tuesday, but normally > not until at least 10am However, checked the band at around 2100 on 31/1 and heard G3XTZ loud and clear in spite of the growler. At 2125 we exchanged reports, his 579, mine 569. This morning at 0840 the growler went off and I worked G3YXM 579 both ways G2AJV was in beacon mode with a 559 signal. Tail ended the QSO between between G3YXM and M0BMU. Worked M0BMU, my RST 569, his 559 During this QSO the noise level came up just after Jim had given me my report and I was not able to tell when he passed it back. I carried on listening - then the noise went off and I heard M0BMU asking were was I. I went back and we finished the QSO. - congratulations on your efforts on this band Jim. I though the noise, which nearly scuppered the QSO was local but it turned out to be the maintenance guys on the 'Growler' winding the power up and down. This enabled me to make some tests using Gram while monitoring the G2AJV signal. When the growler was off G2AJV was Q5 about 3 to 4dB above the noise. When the growler came on G2AJV was inaudible but a clear signal on Gram (on a fairly wide bandwidth setting). Before this test I was of the opinion that the noise from the sideband noise from the growler contributed 3 or 4dB to the noise floor at the bottom of the band and at this distance from the growler transmitter. Measurements this morning indicate that the additional noise is more like 6 to 9dB, far worse than I though. It must be hell in the midlands! It does explain why the QSO with GD0MRF was not as plain sailing as I thought it would be. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8680 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2000 13:56:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2000 13:56:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Fdes-0004iF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 13:47:54 +0000 Received: from hugo.fen.baynet.de ([194.95.193.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Fder-0004iA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 13:47:53 +0000 Received: from 194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de (dialin-nbg-165.fen.baynet.de [195.37.215.45]) by hugo.fen.baynet.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA06669 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 14:47:37 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <001901bf6560$0ae663c0$20d725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de> From: "Walter Staubach" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: G3ACQ - DF6NM in DFCW Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 06:08:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by hugo.fen.baynet.de id OAA06669 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hallo Markus, congratulations to your first G-land QSO. It`s really grand success with your antenna. I think the main reason is that you put the coil ontop the chimney and no longer heat up the chimney with HF,hi. Best DX to you, the baby boy is now a boy. And to all others: At this time I am not even baby boy because my antenne is down by storm. That is not too bad, but the mast with rotor is also damaged and I have to put it down to see what happened. So for the next time I am not QRV,sri. (only e-mail, packet and local 2m,hi). 73 Walter DJ2LF -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: MarkusVester@aol.com An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Datum: Dienstag, 1. Februar 2000 00:29 Betreff: LF: G3ACQ - DF6NM in DFCW >Hello Laurie, hello all, > >that qso was very special for both of us: Your 1st DFCW contact (congrats!), >and my 1st 2way-QSO with G-land. Thanks, Laurie, you've really made this a >day! > >I am using only a short (15m) and low (6m above house and ground) antenna. >This was the first QSO after moving the loading coil from indoors to a >rooftop position on saturday. With that change, the gain had improved from >-45dBi to -39dBi, and my ERP is a blasting 4mW (!) now. > >When you called you were OO with about -102dBm (S4, -2dBuV/m), but during the >QSO the signal faded down to -10dBuV/m and became barely readable at the end. >Also, the wires swinging in the wind caused substantial resonance shifts and >tx-power variations. I recorded a spectrogram .bmp which I could send you by >email. > >Hope to see you again soon... especially in DFCW, its a fantastic mode (at >least for the very little baby boys like me). > >73s de Markus, DF6NM in JN59NK > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27417 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2000 15:03:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2000 15:03:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Feaf-0005B3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 14:47:37 +0000 Received: from w111.web2010.com ([216.157.58.254] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Feae-0005Ay-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 14:47:36 +0000 Received: from dell1.GMC.NET (as1-55.hk.iol.cz [194.228.133.55]) by w111.web2010.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA05181 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 09:46:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from p (P.MALY [192.168.1.35]) by dell1.GMC.NET with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id D5ATS4M2; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:48:22 +0100 Message-ID: <005101bf6cc3$633678c0$2301a8c0@maly.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3892A61A.C049A749@virgin.net> Subject: LF: Re: Transatlantic Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:48:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: My question was not as much serious as it perhaps seemed. I am sorry for this misunderstanding. Vice versa, breathlessly I read all those thoughts and ideas how to cross the ocean. With a thrill I wonder who and when will be this "first". I admire what fools we are and what all we are willing to undertake to get the goal. Is it clear now? Let's stop this silly discussion about sense of our great hobby. 73, Petr, OK1FIG ----- Original Message ----- From: Klaus von der Heide To: Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 11:55 AM Subject: LF: Transatlantic > > > Hello dear LF Friends, > > thanks for the many and divergent replies to my post! > > My Mother celebrated her 90th this weekend, so I didn't > have any time to give an answer immediately. > > Now, let me quickly try some comments to the different > points: > > 1. Science and HAM Radio > ===================== > Thanks to Gamal for his answer to Petr's serious > question what HAM radio is ! > May be, all discussions and experiments clearly say > that a forest of 100 m towers, many DSP's and a super > computer are necessary to get information on LF across > the ocean. Then, Petr, OK1FIG, please ask again. > My intention was to start a discussion on ideas that > may be practicable for radio amateurs. As long as > there is no answer we have to discuss - just as in > science. > > 2. PSK vs. ASK > =========== > ASK keyes between sinus signal and no signal, PSK > keyes between sinus and minus sinus. The distance > between the two signal alternatives measured in > voltage is doubled with PSK while the noise remains > unchanged. If on the transmitting end the maximum > power is limited (not the average power) the gain > of PSK over ASK is 6 dB, i.e. to get the same SNR > with ASK four times the power of PSK is necessary. > If ASK is detected incoherently as usual a factor > of 2 (3 dB) has to be added to this difference > because more noise is received. Unfortunately with > real channels the gain is not as great (see: DPSK). > > 3. Long Integration Time > ===================== > The ideas proposed by Andre', N4ICK, are good when > ASK or FSK is used with non coherent reception. > FSK would be the better choice. > > But a synchronization to time ticks of a second is not > a problem. Following the comments of Larry, VA3LK, > and Johan, SM6KL, GPS can be used. I prefer DCF77 > or MSF because of its simplicity. > > In fact, if no information is sent then the result of > a very long integration time is the same as integrating > over many short time slots. The advantage of a one second > period or even faster is a better averaging of non > gaussian noise (especially in the case of ASK). > Using a random bit pattern helps to minimize man > made noise. Possibly, one should not use the second, > but 5 minutes divided by a prime number to get away > from anything that is synchronized to a clock. > > If real information is sent, then the transmitted > bitrate should be considerably greater than the > information bit rate. This is achieved by heavy > coding with a low code rate. But that is not a point > of discussion as long as even the carrier cannot > be heard. > > 4. DPSK > ==== > Unfortunately, there comes a loss with PSK when the > communication channel may vary in delay. A delay > produces a phase shift, and a varying delay results > in a changing phase. The symbol rate must be so fast > that the change in phase from one to the next symbol > is negligible. 136 kHz is about 14 MHz/100. On 20 m > the symbol rates of PSK31 and Pactor2 (31 and 100 Hz) > are in the optimum region of 20 ... 200 Hz. I simply > guessed that 1/100 of that (1 Hz) should be good for > LF although the waves may travel quite another way. > As a consequence of the varying channel, one cannot > use a constant reference phase. One therefore detects > the difference between the last and the actual symbol. > Because now the noisy last phase is used as reference > instead of an absolute and noise free one this > differential PSK (DPSK) has a loss of up to 3 dB > over the absolute PSK. At extremely low signal level > FSK is as good as DPSK. Therefore FSK should remain > in this discussion. > > 5. Coherence > ========= > As mentioned above, coherent detection gives a better > SNR. But, if the signal is so weak that the time to > transmit one single information bit (that means > identification of the carrier) is longer than the > period of approximately constant phase then the > 3 dB gain of coherence are lost. In other words: If > you cannot keep track of the carrier things get worse. > Using a milliwatt on 20 m it's the same situation and > 2 m aurora too, the only difference is in the time scale. > Where are we on LF? Is something known about QSB periods > on transatlantic LF? If the typical QSB-period is a few > minutes long or faster coherent detection is impossible. > I then would try FSK keyed with a random pattern at > a symbol clock of 1 per second up to 1 per minute. > > 6. Phased Array / Synthetic Aperture > ================================= > Paul, OH3LWR, is right in pointing out the problem > of a complex radiation pattern with many "fingers". > That's the reason why I proposed a mean distance of > a quarter of the wavelength. Then nearly the maximum > gain can be achieved with only one main lobe. > There are many different possibilities for the > realization of the correct phasing of transmitting > and receiving antennas. These should carefully be > discussed. Paul's proposal to use a local BC or TV > station seems to me a practical one. > > 73 de Klaus, DJ5HG > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11710 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2000 15:12:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2000 15:12:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Fesh-0005OT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 15:06:15 +0000 Received: from mailout01.sul.t-online.de ([194.25.134.80]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Fesg-0005OO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 15:06:14 +0000 Received: from fwd07.sul.t-online.de by mailout01.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 12FesV-0001VC-03; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:06:03 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from (087321565-0001@[62.158.203.81]) by fwd07.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 12FesM-0Y9MaOC; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:05:54 +0100 From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Change of ground resistance due to frozen ground X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:05:54 +0100 Message-ID: <12FesM-0Y9MaOC@fwd07.sul.t-online.de> X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all, As well as HB9ASB I have noticed that the match of the LF antenna had changed considerably because of frozen ground, a change which could not be corrected merely by retuning the resonance of the antenna. Besides just noting the change It would have been interesting, of course, to find out into what direction the ground resistance has changed. On one of the last cold days and before the snow had disappeared I checked it with a resistive bridge to find that the total feed point resistance of my antenna (when tuned to resonance) had decreased from 100 ohms down to 60 ohms!!! At present the main Variometer series loss is 18-20 ohms. This would really be a nice gesture by nature: In the cold season not only the QRN goes down, but also the ground resistance, leading to higher efficiency of (amateur) LF antennas. Now I will design a 250 uH variometer and a group of binary stepped capacitors in the range 2 to 50 nF to be able to re-tune and re-match the antenna from the shack. 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17104 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2000 15:35:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2000 15:35:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FfDN-0005Wm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 15:27:37 +0000 Received: from mta01.talk21.com ([62.172.192.171] helo=t21mta01-app.talk21.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FfDM-0005We-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 15:27:37 +0000 Received: from dave ([213.1.48.156]) by t21mta01-app.talk21.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <20000201153019.TZGT1955.t21mta01-app.talk21.com@dave> for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:30:19 +0000 Message-ID: <001701bf6cc8$d33fdc60$9c3001d5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <023f01bf6b66$bb7b00e0$0600a8c0@main> Subject: LF: Re: 73kHz Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:26:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC In spite of my pessimism yesterday, Rugby on 73.4 has been off periodically during today, the first Tuesday, between 0845 and 1500. It reappeared at intervals , and I thought they may have been trying to sort their noise problems. It now appears to be back on as normal, and there is still some noise but it does seem lower than in the past. Note that the 60kHz transmitter has not been switched off at all, it seems they only do what they are scheduled to do on various days. I heard Graham G3XTZ calling CQ around 0900 at 569, but nothing else. Cheers Dave dsergeant@iee.org http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2470 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2000 17:10:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2000 17:10:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 9415 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2000 17:07:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2000 17:07:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FgOO-00066i-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 16:43:04 +0000 Received: from mta01.talk21.com ([62.172.192.171] helo=t21mta01-app.talk21.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FgOJ-00066a-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 16:43:00 +0000 Received: from dave ([213.1.42.175]) by t21mta01-app.talk21.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <20000201164542.USSS1955.t21mta01-app.talk21.com@dave> for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:45:42 +0000 Message-ID: <001c01bf6cd3$5b8f9920$af2a01d5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20000201120517.2ca75bb0@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: LF: Re: transatlantic : the optimistic approach Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:42:01 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Rik ON7YD says: >I got a positive reply from VO1GO, Jerry, and asked him (as a first test) >to listen for DCF39 and other signal in the 130-150kHz segment. >Here is his responce : >>Here are some more observations of my listening. At 0522 UTC, rtty >>stations on 130kHz : 559, 133kHz : 589, 137kHz : 569 and 139kHz : 549-559. If CFH on 137 is only 569 on his untuned antenna in VO1 and he is copying DCF39 at up to 559 that must be a very good sign. I would have thought CFH would be pinning his meter with a tuned antenna there, so DCF39 can't be that much down on it! I suspect the 133kHz report is of a more local station but there is of course the German station linked to DCF39 there. 73s Dave dsergeant@iee.org http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7184 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2000 17:37:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2000 17:37:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 1340 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2000 17:34:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2000 17:34:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Fgp3-0006Lf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 17:10:37 +0000 Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Fgp1-0006La-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 17:10:35 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gemini.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12FgmR-0002kO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 17:07:55 +0000 Message-ID: <15836.200002011714@gemini> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:26:44 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: 73kHz Today X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Very pleased to work G3XTZ(589) again, and G3YXM (579) and G3LDO (569) for the first time on 73kHz this morning, in the gaps between transmissions from the Rugby TX. this brings my total to 6 stations worked on the band. I also heard G2AJV (559) sending a beacon signal, from about 0830 until 1040 when I left for work. The noise in the sidebands of the Rugby signal is certainly - well, prominent. Looking at the signal with Spectrogram, it seems to be a pretty ordinary FSK type signal with 100Hz shift - has anybody any ideas as to why it radiates so much noise? When it was off, the band sounded like 136kHz on a quiet day, with very little QRN, and the noise floor seemed to be mostly LORAN. I also sent some QRSS calls between about 1000 and 1030, but didn't see any others. Later.... went home during lunch break to have another look. Rugby was still off & on, and G2AJV was still 559 when it was off. Noticed a mains buzz on the background - at first, I thought it must be a dimmer or some such, but eventually it became apparent that Rugby TX was transmitting an unmodulated carrier, and the 50Hz was sidebands on the Rugby signal. Managed to look at the spectrum using Spectrogram in bar graph mode - the sidebands were between 45dB and 55dB down on the carrier, extending over at least a few kHz bandwidth at intervals of 50Hz. Even multiples of 50Hz were stronger than odd multiples by roughly 10dB. I would guess that the sidebands are due to power supply ripple, and that when FSK modulation is on, all the sidebands get modulated too. Since the data is probably not syncronised with the mains, the end result is the amazing racket we are used to. I haven't been able to make a direct comparison between noise levels with Rugby on and off yet, but would guess it must bring the noise level up by at least 20dB at my location. Roll on the first of next month! I tried giving G2AJV a call when he paused for a few minutes, but no reply. I would guess a QSO should be possible, though. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28721 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2000 18:30:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2000 18:30:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FhqM-0006p9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 18:16:02 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from aurora.eexi.gr ([195.167.28.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FhqJ-0006p4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 18:16:00 +0000 Received: from odin (ppp46.dialup.eexi.gr [195.167.28.110]) by aurora.eexi.gr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA18010 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 20:15:54 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20000201194925.006d969c@aurora.eexi.gr> X-Sender: sv1xv@aurora.eexi.gr X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 19:49:25 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Costas Krallis" Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz Today In-reply-to: <15836.200002011714@gemini> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 15:26 01/02/2000 +0000, you wrote: > I would guess that the sidebands are due to power supply ripple, > and that when FSK modulation is on, all the sidebands get > modulated too. Since the data is probably not syncronised with the > mains, the end result is the amazing racket we are used to. >From the symptoms you describe, I agree with your diagnosis. It is definitely a power supply problem, possibly caused by faulty filter capacitors. 73 Costas +------------------------------------------------------------+ | Costas Krallis SV1XV * LOC KM18UA | | P.O.Box 3066 * FAX: +30-1-3811362 | | GR-10210 Athens * E-Mail: sv1xv@eexi.gr | | GREECE * | +------------------------------------------------------------+ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17707 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2000 18:38:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2000 18:38:23 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Fi4g-0006vr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 18:30:50 +0000 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.91]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Fi4g-0006vm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 18:30:50 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12Fi4a-0000Yu-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 18:30:45 +0000 Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:55:40 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: LF: G3LDO MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Heard Peter G3LDO at 0925 today Tuesday 01/02/00 on 72.00 KHz calling 'QRZ'. Signals 100% copyable at 559. Called on 136 on the offchance you were listening there Peter, for a crossband QSO. 73 Tom, G3OLB Loc. IO80iu From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4518 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2000 20:22:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2000 20:22:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Fjev-0007ey-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 20:12:21 +0000 Received: from host.king.igs.net ([216.58.2.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Fjet-0007et-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 20:12:19 +0000 Received: from server1 (ttyC05.king.igs.net [216.58.2.167]) by host.king.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id PAA97585 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:12:08 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kayser@king.igs.net) Message-ID: <003301bf6cf0$954f8270$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Re: transatlantic : the optimistic approach Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:11:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave: >>I got a positive reply from VO1GO, Jerry, and asked him (as a first test) >>to listen for DCF39 and other signal in the 130-150kHz segment. >>Here is his responce : > >>>Here are some more observations of my listening. At 0522 UTC, rtty >>>stations on 130kHz : 559, 133kHz : 589, 137kHz : 569 and 139kHz : 549-559. > >If CFH on 137 is only 569 on his untuned antenna in VO1 and he is copying >DCF39 at up to 559 that must be a very good sign. I would have thought CFH >would be pinning his meter with a tuned antenna there, so DCF39 can't be >that much down on it! > >I suspect the 133kHz report is of a more local station but there is of >course the German station linked to DCF39 there. Well not quite. 133.1 is FSK 75 Hz and can be occasionally quite loud even on my poor antenna here. 139 kHz is not very loud most of the time and is not on the DCF39 QRG, this one seems to move up to 100 hz from day to day and sometimes over an hour of so it will move 50 Hz. bothered me at first but I suspect it might be a spurious. Strange he does not mention 122.5 which can be a real barn burner of a signal on occasion, and I have reason to believe from some information the Yanks put on their reflector this one is in Cutler Maine. Strang he does not seem to hear the 136.81 signal which is weak and seemingly constant level here, I think it might be a what is called a power line carrier. I have heard burst of what I think is data similar to the DCF39 signal bursts I heard on the .WAV file. This one bothers me in listening for the WA2 stations. My W&G has been calibrated here and I can read frequencies to about 1.5 Hz with certainty when using the video presentation of Gram. This W&G AT-611 appears to be a real find as it is stabilized internally somehow and is incredible for accuracy. I can be within a Hz with the frequencies given me by the yanks on some LF stations, even reading easily the amount of chirp on the RTTY space signal on the low speed stuff. hi. I have found me first volunteer for the dxpedition, he is a lowfer guy who I new of many years ago. He is hearing NDB's and LF stuff all over North America. Gotta run Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23284 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2000 21:25:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2000 21:25:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Fkfj-00086b-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 21:17:15 +0000 Received: from [199.172.152.110] (helo=gigi.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Fkfi-00086P-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 21:17:14 +0000 Received: from magic.excite.com ([199.172.148.161]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.31a 201-229-119-114) with SMTP id <20000201182846.QMSQ29057.ewey.excite.com@magic.excite.com> for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:28:46 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <22363825.949429726578.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:28:46 -0800 (PST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Activity on 73 kHz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.1.17.247 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I listened to 73 kHz from about 08.30 till 09.40 this morning and hoping that it might be of interest to the stations operating, I attach my log of the stations heard: G3XTZ 08.35 1.2.00 5,6,9 calling CQ M0BMU 08.36 1.2.00 5,3,9 returned call - QSO G3YXM 08.50 1.2.00 5,3,9 calling M0BMU - QSO another QSO in background strong station QRSS or tuning up at 08.57 on same QRG G3XTZ 09.03 1.2.00 5,6,9 calling CQ another QSO in background M0BMU 09.06 1.2.00 5,2,9 QSO with G3LDO G3XTZ 09.08 1.2.00 5,6,9 calling CQ G3LDO 09.23 1.2.00 4,1,9 ?? some activity at 09.24 G3LDO 09.25 1.2.00 4,1,9 responding QRZ another station returns - just audible above noise, but not copyable. M0BMU 09.35 1.2.00 5,2,9 ??? Rx: AOR 7030. 500 kHz filter. Antenna: G3LNP loop for 136 aligned East - West. 73s John G4CNN, IO91ML (Reading) _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freeworld.excite.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4364 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2000 21:26:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2000 21:26:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Fkh3-00086r-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 21:18:37 +0000 Received: from [199.172.152.110] (helo=gigi.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Fkh1-00086P-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 21:18:36 +0000 Received: from magic.excite.com ([199.172.148.161]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.31a 201-229-119-114) with SMTP id <20000201184406.QBMM28603.kuku.excite.com@magic.excite.com> for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:44:06 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <12241265.949430646447.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:44:06 -0800 (PST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: transatlantic : the optimistic approach MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.1.17.247 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Rik, There is an RTTY station on or about 130, actually 129.45 and 129.58 kHz, which I believe is SOA212, Warszawa. Alternatively it could be DCF49 128.93, which is a 100 kW station. 133 might be Datatrak. Actual frequencies 133.20 and 133.27. Of course there might well be other stations on these frequencies in other parts of the world. Regards, John, G4CNN, IO91ML _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freeworld.excite.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17615 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2000 21:42:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2000 21:42:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FkwB-0008EP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 21:34:15 +0000 Received: from as-img-6.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.151] helo=spamgaaf.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FkwA-0008EK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 21:34:14 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaaf.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id QAA12233 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:33:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:33:14 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: DCF39 in the US - first analysis To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200002011633_MC2-974D-B8D9@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello friends, Dick, WA3USG had send me a file of a recording he has made in the US and what he thinks might be DCF39, I have made a first very preliminary analysis tonight. The file contains a carrier on 700 Hz which can clearly be seen on Spectrogram 5.1.6 ( and also can clearly be heard through the noise. I found the following inconistencies in that carrier: 11595 ms - 12089 ms (length 496 ms) 25605 ms - 26289 ms (length 684 ms) time in between 13516 ms. In the second half of the file the noise was too strong and the AGC of Dick's receiver pulled the signal down, so that reading here were not that clear. My first very cautious analysis would be to assume, that those inconsistencies in the carrier might be the data bursts of DCF39. Data of these bursts vary, the recording I had on hand showed values for the length of the data burst between 876 ms and 883 ms and the time in between two bursts 11488 to 13500 ms. What I need, if possible, is a longer recording (5 to 10 minutes) with AGC off. Additionally, it would help to have a similar recording of the data frequency of the FSK signal on 139.170 kHz. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21494 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2000 22:17:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2000 22:17:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FlQq-00000N-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 22:05:56 +0000 Received: from mb04.swip.net ([193.12.122.208]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FlQo-00000I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 22:05:55 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer (d212-151-34-165.swipnet.se [212.151.34.165]) by mb04.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA13233; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:03:13 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <00c601bf6d00$bcf28060$a52297d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, lowfer@qth.net Subject: LF: Special LF event - new attempt - 7S6SAJ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:07:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all, Christer, SM6PXJ, and I are going to make a new attempt to transmit from the retired giant "T" antenna (210 meters tall) in Karlsborg next weekend. We will try to get on the air in the afternoon (abt 15.00 UTC) Saturday the 5:th. We will stay on the air until sunrise on Sunday or until our supply of MOSFETs is exhausted, whichever occurs first ;-) We will use the special callsign 7S6SAJ and our ERP is likely to be "slightly" above average ;-) Suggestions for frequencies, sked times etc. are welcome. Write to: sm6lkm.jbeab@swipnet.se or sm6pxj@swipnet.se 73 de Johan Bodin, SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25303 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2000 22:37:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2000 22:37:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Flo3-00008W-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 22:29:55 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Flo2-00008R-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 22:29:55 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from pickmere.demon.co.uk ([158.152.117.143]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12Flnx-000Iqy-0V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:29:49 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 19:53:06 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M.J.Powell" Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz Today References: <15836.200002011714@gemini><3.0.2.32.20000201194925.006d969c@aurora.eexi.gr> In-reply-to: <3.0.2.32.20000201194925.006d969c@aurora.eexi.gr> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In message <3.0.2.32.20000201194925.006d969c@aurora.eexi.gr>, Costas Krallis writes >At 15:26 01/02/2000 +0000, you wrote: > >> I would guess that the sidebands are due to power supply ripple, >> and that when FSK modulation is on, all the sidebands get >> modulated too. Since the data is probably not syncronised with the >> mains, the end result is the amazing racket we are used to. > >>From the symptoms you describe, I agree with your diagnosis. >It is definitely a power supply problem, possibly caused by >faulty filter capacitors. OK. Who is going to write to them? Mike -- M.J.Powell From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18517 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2000 22:56:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2000 22:56:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Fm6R-0000KX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 22:48:55 +0000 Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Fm6Q-0000KS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 22:48:54 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.67.13be5ab (3889) for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 17:48:20 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <67.13be5ab.25c8bcb3@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 17:48:19 EST Subject: LF: Re: Special LF event - new attempt - 7S6SAJ To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 62 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi boys, the efficiency of a 1/10 lambda ant over a good ground system could easily be over 50%. If you use qrss, the red indians might see the smoke-signs of your burning MOSFETS in their transatlantic homeland... 73 Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1189 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2000 23:20:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2000 23:20:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FmQF-0000Oo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 23:09:23 +0000 Received: from as-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.148] helo=spamgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FmQD-0000Oj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 23:09:22 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id SAA06825 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 18:08:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 18:08:17 -0500 From: "Prof R. Jennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 73kHz Today To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200002011808_MC2-9752-F6F6@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Very many thanks to all who received my 73kHz signals today. I listened periodically between beacon transmissions but heard only two very weak signals. One was in very,very slow morse which made it dificult to decipher by ear! The other was at an audible speed but only just readable above noise. I copied it as G0BMU but now I know that it was actually M0BMU. Congratulations Jim - you were received in Canterbury but at a level which was too vestigial for a QSO. By the way, your QTH isn't in my old call book - please advise me! There is just a chance that I may be able to receive sigals at or just below 72kHz when Rugby is on the air as it is slightly more attenuated in this neck of the woods (Canterbury). I'm game to try but in any case we should all have another go on 2nd March. 73 to all, Roger, G2AJV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3298 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2000 00:29:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Feb 2000 00:29:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FnQz-0000yF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 00:14:13 +0000 Received: from mb07.swip.net ([193.12.122.211]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FnQy-0000yA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 00:14:13 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer (d212-151-53-196.swipnet.se [212.151.53.196]) by mb07.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA03406 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 01:11:29 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <004301bf6d12$aa2d5600$c43597d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SV: Re: Special LF event - new attempt - 7S6SAJ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 01:15:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Markus, DF6NM, wrote: >Hi boys, > the efficiency of a 1/10 lambda ant over a good ground system could easily >be over 50%. Yes, we know. That's the reason for using this antenna ;-) 73 de SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19442 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2000 06:31:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Feb 2000 06:31:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FtEP-0003XU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 06:25:37 +0000 Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FtEN-0003XP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 06:25:36 +0000 Received: from [202.27.178.153] by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <20000202062455.MUMS3144.mta3-rme@[202.27.178.153]> for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 19:24:55 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3897CCC5.533A@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:20:53 +1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Change of ground resistance due to frozen ground References: <12FesM-0Y9MaOC@fwd07.sul.t-online.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hans-Joachim Brandt wrote: > Besides just noting the change It would have been interesting, of course, to > find out into what direction the ground resistance has changed. On one of the > last cold days and before the snow had disappeared I checked it with a resistive > bridge to find that the total feed point resistance of my antenna (when tuned to > resonance) had decreased from 100 ohms down to 60 ohms!!! I do not have a reference at hand to quote a definitive response, but my recollection of ground parameter data is that frozen ground is "bad news" for ground wave loss, as is fresh water. Your measured result is the other way round. I will try to find a text book reference on frozen ground losses versus unfrozen. By the way, the temperate climate here in Wellington, New Zealand involves a few frosts in the winter but no frozen ground as such, so I have not experienced the type of conditions that Hans-Joachim is more familiar with. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9813 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2000 07:31:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Feb 2000 07:31:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Fu9h-0003vX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 07:24:49 +0000 Received: from ds-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.136] helo=spdmgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Fu9g-0003vP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 07:24:48 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id CAA26169 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 02:24:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 02:23:40 -0500 From: "Holger 'Geri', DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: DCF39 in the US - Bingo! To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200002020223_MC2-9757-BCFF@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Lowfers, Dick, WA3USG has made another recording last night after 22.00 UTC. This time it is a five minute recording with very little disturbance or QRN. I had a brief look at the file this morning before leaving to my office and I clearly recognized the typical pattern of the DCF39 (for reason of simplicity I continue to use that callsign) transmissions: a short interruption in the carrier every 11 to 15 seconds, the length of the interruption (which is the data burst) is approximately 1/2 second. I will do further analysis of the signal tonight, additionally Dick has also made a recording of the other FSK frequency 139.170 kHz, on which I will try to identify the data burst signals. Anyhow, I am almost hundert percent sure that Dick (and other stations in the vicinity of Washington DC) received the proper station! Congratulations! Well, from the file and the Spectrogram I can tell you: crossing the Atlantic with 1 W ERP instead of 50 kW will be tough, but I think it is not impossible (considering that Washington DC is fairly South and the Burg transmitter is in the middle of Germany, several hundert kilometers away from the sea). Keep on trying, it will work out! Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) http://www.qru.de P.S.: I will post some spectrogram pictures of the DCF39 reception in the US probably next weekend. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13201 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2000 07:45:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Feb 2000 07:45:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FuKy-00041v-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 07:36:28 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.53] helo=pefletti.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FuKu-00041l-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 07:36:25 +0000 Received: from default (MKDCLXXVIII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.167.178]) by pefletti.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA08244 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 09:36:06 +0200 (EET) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000202093713.0084b7c0@laatikko.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: oh2lx@laatikko.saunalahti.fi X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 09:37:13 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: Re: LF: Change of ground resistance due to frozen ground In-reply-to: <3897CCC5.533A@xtra.co.nz> References: <12FesM-0Y9MaOC@fwd07.sul.t-online.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In Finland we have some experience with frost. Information about its effects on ground wave propagation is not very well established. Same with TV & FM space wave (I am not talking about frost on antennas). What effect frost can have on higher angle sky wave component on LF, MF or even HF frequencies, I just wonder... I do have some frost depth statistics from Southern Finland and have tried to find some correlation between measured LF/MF ground wave values and frost. The stations both flight and and ground (fixed qth) measured consist of: - One LF BC station, Lahti 254/252 kHz, 200 kW, - Several MF BC stations, two still active, - More than 100 MF aviation beacons (NDB & L), - A total of some 10 maritime MF DGPS beacons. YLE measurements began in the 1950's but only VHF/UHF will continue after 1st Jan 2000. Private LF measurements continue from my poor qth... Finnish NDB's and locators (LO/LI) presently use either 11 m or 14 m high top loaded monopoles. Finnish DGPS beacons use a 36 m high top loaded. Locator with a 14 m high monopole and 500 W out radites between 5 and 10 W EMRP (1% to 2%). DGPS with a 36 m monopole and 100 W out radiates approximately 5 W EMRP (5%), or even more. Raimo, OH2MRX is real aviation beacon expert and he reads these messages. He and other CAA fellows may confirm whether frost plays some significant role on NDB/L behaviour. According to our experiences, as propagation researches something happens in beacons close environment when the water content changes from liquid to solid or vice versa. >From long time ground wave measurements we can easily see that the most significant variable to effect indicated F-s values is air temperature. This was documented already in the 1940-1950's. Earth net efficiency varies from case to case. 73 de Vaino, OH2LX At 19:20 2.2.2000 +1300, you wrote: >Hans-Joachim Brandt wrote: > >> Besides just noting the change It would have been interesting, of course, to >> find out into what direction the ground resistance has changed. On one of the >> last cold days and before the snow had disappeared I checked it with a resistive >> bridge to find that the total feed point resistance of my antenna (when tuned to >> resonance) had decreased from 100 ohms down to 60 ohms!!! > >I do not have a reference at hand to quote a definitive response, but my >recollection of ground parameter data is that frozen ground is "bad >news" for ground wave loss, as is fresh water. Your measured result is >the other way round. I will try to find a text book reference on frozen >ground losses versus unfrozen. > >By the way, the temperate climate here in Wellington, New Zealand >involves a few frosts in the winter but no frozen ground as such, so I >have not experienced the type of conditions that Hans-Joachim is more >familiar with. > >73, Bob ZL2CA ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5703 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2000 08:18:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Feb 2000 08:18:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Furi-0004G2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 08:10:18 +0000 Received: from mta4-gui.server.ntli.net ([194.168.54.145] helo=mta4-svc.virgin.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Furh-0004Fx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 08:10:17 +0000 Received: from default ([62.252.40.185]) by mta4-svc.virgin.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <20000202081004.PFKV6809.mta4-svc.virgin.net@default> for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:10:04 +0000 Message-ID: <000301bf6d54$f8327500$b928fc3e@default> From: "peter cleall" To: "RSGB LF group" Subject: LF: 73 kHz tests Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:09:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Listened and viewed all morning. Nothing heard, A few very weak traces seen, between the 60kHz related lines. Rtty midband off for long periods and 60kHz on at all times, in spite of the pundits predictions. So it's back to 136kHz and try and improve the reception on that band, at least it will continue to be in long term use. Peter G8AFN From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18466 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2000 08:23:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Feb 2000 08:23:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FukA-0004Ez-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 08:02:30 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from ns1.swh.sk ([192.108.125.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Fuk8-0004AE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 08:02:29 +0000 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes [195.41.64.129]) by ns1.swh.sk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA25007 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 09:02:12 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [195.41.64.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA09813 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 09:02:08 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 09:02:05 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <92CA25F78271D111969400A024297F5B02D6C686@btss.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: OM2TW QRV again... Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 09:02:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all... I'll be QRV on 136 again this weekend 5/6.2.2000. I'll use about 150W and 170m long antenna starting saturday 1500Z until sunday 1000Z. QRSS also possible, normaly around 136.7 and 136.9kHz. See you later.... Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28645 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2000 09:57:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Feb 2000 09:57:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FwR2-00050N-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 09:50:52 +0000 Received: from ns1.swh.sk ([192.108.125.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FwQz-00050I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 09:50:50 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes [195.41.64.129]) by ns1.swh.sk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA28535 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:50:36 +0100 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [195.41.64.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA20473 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:50:32 +0100 (MET) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:50:30 +0100 Message-ID: <92CA25F78271D111969400A024297F5B02D6C73E@btss.swh.sk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: Re: OM2TW QRV again... Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:50:28 +0100 Importance: high X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all... Sorry for the mistake in my message. Frequencies will be: QRRS 137.7 CW 136.7 and 136.9 73 de Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17387 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2000 13:58:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Feb 2000 13:58:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12G00M-0006fn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 13:39:34 +0000 Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.de ([194.25.134.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12G00K-0006fi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 13:39:32 +0000 Received: from fwd03.sul.t-online.de by mailout06.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 12G00A-0007DQ-01; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 14:39:22 +0100 Received: from (087321565-0001@[62.158.201.3]) by fwd03.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 12Fzzv-2IhpdxC; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 14:39:07 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 References: <12FesM-0Y9MaOC@fwd07.sul.t-online.de> <3.0.6.32.20000202093713.0084b7c0@laatikko.saunalahti.fi> Subject: Re: LF: Change of ground resistance due to frozen ground X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 14:39:07 +0100 Message-ID: <12Fzzv-2IhpdxC@fwd03.sul.t-online.de> X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all, when collecting reports about changing ground resistance changes due to frozen ground (and the ground covered with snow) I think we must take into account the following difference: Commercial stations with a well elaborated ground system may not notice this effect as much as radio amateurs who have limited possibilities to install effetive ground systems. At present I am just using my house ground for LF. I have noticed the difference in the antenna match (up to S = 2), I have measured the direction of the change, I will repeat these measurements in the next winter season, and I will install something to be able to re-match to this change. All other observations, preferably from other radio amateurs, however, are welcome. 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB Vaeinoe Lehtoranta schrieb: > In Finland we have some experience with frost. > Information about its effects on ground wave > propagation is not very well established. > Same with TV & FM space wave (I am not talking > about frost on antennas). What effect frost can > have on higher angle sky wave component on > LF, MF or even HF frequencies, I just wonder... > > I do have some frost depth statistics from > Southern Finland and have tried to find some > correlation between measured LF/MF ground wave > values and frost. The stations both flight and > and ground (fixed qth) measured consist of: > > - One LF BC station, Lahti 254/252 kHz, 200 kW, > - Several MF BC stations, two still active, > - More than 100 MF aviation beacons (NDB & L), > - A total of some 10 maritime MF DGPS beacons. > > YLE measurements began in the 1950's but only > VHF/UHF will continue after 1st Jan 2000. Private > LF measurements continue from my poor qth... > > Finnish NDB's and locators (LO/LI) presently use > either 11 m or 14 m high top loaded monopoles. > > Finnish DGPS beacons use a 36 m high top loaded. > > Locator with a 14 m high monopole and 500 W out > radites between 5 and 10 W EMRP (1% to 2%). > > DGPS with a 36 m monopole and 100 W out radiates > approximately 5 W EMRP (5%), or even more. > > Raimo, OH2MRX is real aviation beacon expert > and he reads these messages. He and other CAA > fellows may confirm whether frost plays some > significant role on NDB/L behaviour. > > According to our experiences, as propagation > researches something happens in beacons close > environment when the water content changes > from liquid to solid or vice versa. > >From long time ground wave measurements we can > easily see that the most significant variable > to effect indicated F-s values is air temperature. > This was documented already in the 1940-1950's. > Earth net efficiency varies from case to case. > > 73 de Vaino, OH2LX > > > > > At 19:20 2.2.2000 +1300, you wrote: > >Hans-Joachim Brandt wrote: > > > >> Besides just noting the change It would have been interesting, of > course, to > >> find out into what direction the ground resistance has changed. On one > of the > >> last cold days and before the snow had disappeared I checked it with a > resistive > >> bridge to find that the total feed point resistance of my antenna (when > tuned to > >> resonance) had decreased from 100 ohms down to 60 ohms!!! > > > >I do not have a reference at hand to quote a definitive response, but my > >recollection of ground parameter data is that frozen ground is "bad > >news" for ground wave loss, as is fresh water. Your measured result is > >the other way round. I will try to find a text book reference on frozen > >ground losses versus unfrozen. > > > >By the way, the temperate climate here in Wellington, New Zealand > >involves a few frosts in the winter but no frozen ground as such, so I > >have not experienced the type of conditions that Hans-Joachim is more > >familiar with. > > > >73, Bob ZL2CA > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland > ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ > E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21345 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2000 14:19:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Feb 2000 14:19:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12G0G7-0006ns-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 13:55:51 +0000 Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12G0G6-0006nn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 13:55:50 +0000 Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.53) with SMTP id 02826256 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 14:55:32 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <38995F44.18571E04@phonakcom.ch> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 02:58:12 -0800 From: "Toni Baertschi" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Siemens K2355 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: from HB2ASB, JN36pt Just acquired a "Carrier Frequency Measuring Set" from Siemens, Model "K2355". It measures from 200 Hz - 620 kHz. Smallest BW is 20 Hz and it has a BFO and an audio output. The frequency read-out has a 1 Hz resolution. Has anybody experience in using such a device as a long wave receiver or know where I could get a manual? 73 de Toni From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 75 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2000 18:28:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Feb 2000 18:28:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12G4KU-00006g-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 18:16:38 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12G4KT-00006X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 18:16:37 +0000 Received: from [195.44.220.137] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12G4KM-000362-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 18:16:30 +0000 Message-ID: <38987442.4F52D818@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 18:15:31 +0000 From: "g3kev" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: OM2TW QRV again... References: <92CA25F78271D111969400A024297F5B02D6C686@btss.swh.sk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Gasparik Richard wrote: > Hi all... > > I'll be QRV on 136 again this weekend 5/6.2.2000. > I'll use about 150W and 170m long antenna starting saturday 1500Z until > sunday 1000Z. > QRSS also possible, normaly around 136.7 and 136.9kHz. > > See you later.... > > Rich OM2TW Hi Rich. Tnx for the info about your activities this weekend. I will be looking for you around the above frequencies. It would be nice to have a qso with you. Pse also listen for my call, will be using normal cw, around 136.7 and 136.9 khz. 73 de MAL/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16253 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2000 19:52:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Feb 2000 19:52:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12G5hH-0000gD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:44:15 +0000 Received: from tk1.ihug.co.nz ([203.29.160.13] helo=smtp1.ihug.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12G5hF-0000g8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:44:13 +0000 Received: from test (p40-max15.chc.ihug.co.nz [203.109.234.232]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA10176 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:44:00 +1300 Message-ID: <00e401bf6db6$5a4044a0$0200a8c0@test> From: "Dave Brown" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <38995F44.18571E04@phonakcom.ch> Subject: LF: Re: Siemens K2355 Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:47:31 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Toni If the 2355 is anything like the 2155 it should be very useful. The 2155 has a selective receiver with 3.1 kHz and 20 Hz IF B/Ws as well as a wideband receive function for the full 200 Hz to 620kHz. Using the 75ohm coax input one can get the 0dB mark to correspond to -110dBm and read off at least 15 dB below that reasonably accurately. A tracking oscillator covering the full range up to 620kHz is included as well. If you cant get a manual ex Europe somewhere get back to me and I should be able to help. 73 Dave ZL3FJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17944 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2000 20:00:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Feb 2000 20:00:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12G5rD-0000lr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:54:31 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from smtper.inrete.it ([212.110.32.184] helo=mailer.inrete.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12G5rB-0000lm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:54:30 +0000 Received: from cel266 ([151.25.255.135]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA27596 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 20:54:19 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 20:54:19 +0100 Message-ID: <4.1.20000202204809.009d46a0@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1 Data: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 20:50:25 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: SV: Re: Special LF event - new attempt - 7S6SAJ In-reply-to: <004301bf6d12$aa2d5600$c43597d4@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In 15.41 02/02/00 , hai scritto: >Markus, DF6NM, wrote: > >>Hi boys, >> the efficiency of a 1/10 lambda ant over a good ground system could easily >>be over 50%. > >Yes, we know. That's the reason for using this antenna ;-) > >73 de SM6LKM > > Well, what is the ... ahem ... expected input V x I to the drains of your final transistors, gentlemens? Assuming a PA efficiency of 0.1%, of course ... Marco Bruno - IK1ODO spin@inrete.it SPIN Electronics - www.spin-it.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10936 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2000 20:18:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Feb 2000 20:18:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12G66r-0000ta-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 20:10:41 +0000 Received: from mb09.swip.net ([193.12.122.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12G66p-0000tV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 20:10:40 +0000 Received: from win95 (d212-151-104-14.swipnet.se [212.151.104.14]) by mb09.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA23552 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 21:10:24 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <000d01bf6db9$f77ffa00$0e6897d4@win95.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: "RSGB LF group" Subject: LF: New stations QRV from OH Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 21:13:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello, I just worked OH1BS and OH7OL on 136. OH7OL/Reino lives in Joensuu in the very eastern part of OH. His QTH should make him attractive for the distance record hunters. I like his antenna description; "a few miles of wire..." 73 Christer sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25036 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2000 21:21:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Feb 2000 21:21:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12G6yp-0001JI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 21:06:27 +0000 Received: from ds-img-4.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.137] helo=spdmgaad.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12G6yo-0001JC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 21:06:26 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id PAA07234; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 15:59:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 15:58:38 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: DCF39 in the US - Bingo! To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "LF" Message-ID: <200002021558_MC2-9770-C52F@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Lowfers, I have posted a spectrogram picture of the transatlantic reception of DCF39 at http://www.qru.de/dcf39-us.html or got to http://www.qru.de and follow the link "DCF39 received by ...." Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) P.S.: André, thanks for the hint, I will also post this message on the AMRAD LF reflector. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17259 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2000 23:10:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Feb 2000 23:10:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12G8i6-0001zQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 22:57:18 +0000 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12G8i5-0001zL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 22:57:17 +0000 Received: from rgcomms.demon.co.uk ([193.237.77.63] helo=G) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12G8i0-000062-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 22:57:12 +0000 From: "Graham Phillips" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group" Subject: LF: 73 kHz. Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 22:55:19 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I would like to thank all the listeners for reports on the 73 kHz signals. I managed good contacts with G3YXM, M0BMU and G3LDO. Maybe we could designate Friday night as 73 kHz Test Night, to try and encourage some more activity. 73 de Graham B. Phillips. G3XTZ. g3xtz@rgcomms.demon.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12899 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2000 09:49:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Feb 2000 09:49:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GImf-0006Ph-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2000 09:42:41 +0000 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GIme-0006PZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2000 09:42:40 +0000 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12GImx-0004n1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:42:59 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Thu, 03 Feb 2000 09:24:51 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:24:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: 73 kHz. In-reply-to: X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > I would like to thank all the listeners for reports on the 73 kHz signals. > I managed good contacts with G3YXM, M0BMU and G3LDO. Maybe we could > designate Friday night as 73 kHz Test Night, to try and encourage some > more activity. > > 73 de Graham B. Phillips. G3XTZ. In principle, a great idea. But some of us (am I the only one?) have to do some work outside to alter the system to work on 73, and we could do with some daylight. Anyway, I will do my best to be there on whatever day is agreed. I am off the air at the moment which was why I was unable to be on 73 on Tuesday morning. Changed system to work on 160m (UHF!) for the CQ WW contest. This was great fun - worked ZX0A with just 100W - and showed just how much my LF activities had led me to improve the performance of the antenna at 1.8MHz. But when I reinstalled everything to LF last Monday evening I couldn't get any current up the antenna. Must be doing something silly but I am now waiting for some daylight time to find out what it is. Expect to be back on the air at the weekend. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17174 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2000 10:25:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Feb 2000 10:25:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GJLl-0006dr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2000 10:18:57 +0000 Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GJLk-0006dm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2000 10:18:56 +0000 Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.53) with SMTP id 02917124 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2000 11:18:45 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <389A7DFA.FD4CE69B@phonakcom.ch> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 23:21:30 -0800 From: "Toni Baertschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Siemens K2355 References: <38995F44.18571E04@phonakcom.ch> <00e401bf6db6$5a4044a0$0200a8c0@test> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Dave and Marco, reading your description, it seems to me that the 2355 is very similar to the 2155, may be an improved version (hopefully a more stable oscillator). Yesterday I've connected the instrument to the LF antenna and it works well with the 20 Hz BW. A little bit annoying is the ringing of the filter and the high BFO Offset (1kHz). 73 de Toni Dave Brown wrote: > Toni > If the 2355 is anything like the 2155 it should be very useful. The 2155 has > a selective receiver with 3.1 kHz and 20 Hz IF B/Ws as well as a wideband > receive function for the full 200 Hz to 620kHz. Using the 75ohm coax input > one can get the 0dB mark to correspond to -110dBm and read off at least 15 > dB below that reasonably accurately. A tracking oscillator covering the > full range up to 620kHz is included as well. > If you cant get a manual ex Europe somewhere get back to me and I should be > able to help. > 73 > Dave > ZL3FJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26369 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2000 14:47:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Feb 2000 14:47:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GNQN-0008VT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2000 14:39:59 +0000 Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GNQL-0008VO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2000 14:39:57 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12GNNf-00061q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2000 14:37:11 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <17680.200002031444@gemini> From: "James Moritz" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 14:44:46 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Re: G3XTZ-Fridays on 73kHz X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Friday evenings are quite good for me - if anybody wants to try normal CW or QRSS, let me know. I can put by antenna up a bit higher after dark, which is worth a few dB extra. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13060 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2000 14:52:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Feb 2000 14:52:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GNSi-0008W6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2000 14:42:24 +0000 Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GNSf-0008W1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2000 14:42:21 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id JAA27910; Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:51:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (8.9.0/) id JAA12184; Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:41:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by umrsvr.hsd.utc.com; (8.9.0/) id JAA30824; Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:23:04 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 3 Feb 2000 15:19:02 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Soegiono, Gamal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: DCF39 & DCF49 telecommand Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 15:18:52 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000704060709040409070501" MIME-Version: 1.0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000704060709040409070501 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear LF friends thanks for your emails containing info about data sent by DCF39 & DCF49. If you look on www.efr.de, there is a schematic showing the telegram format which is used by both stations for sending their telecommand telegrams. My best guess for a identification telegram (DCF49 for example) which is broadcast to all receivers, would look like in the GIF file attached herewith. I don't guarantee for exactness. The coding of length_byte is still unknown (message length coded as a decimal or a hex number). <> 73 de Gamal --------------000704060709040409070501 Content-Type: image/gif; name="BC_teleg.GIF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="BC_teleg.GIF" R0lGODdhVAKbAYAAAP///wAAACwAAAAAVAKbAQAC/4SPqcvtD6OctNqLs968+w+G4kiWphGk 6sq27gvH8kzX9o3n+s73/g8MCofEovGIRKJEqkQTwDpJp48nNIXCRjUBqvcLDovH5PKhC2Wg 1VXn8p02yzfY7Bu9XtMx+rn/DxgoKIbH1tCn0IeYN9iolleIwNiBKFHpiJmpuSkYaddUp1Vn KOlkxTnYpRrHejWa+BSqirfiejiL63qJytvr+xvhqTf82ZZYCgcst7p65pzsxkorfXdYyuip rL3NrZkdmhW5C/1M3U3G3Bo3uVAYC+deFb+UfW5/j+9VPy9unCZcLh+VfuvgWbtSzRxCY83+ kRMIMaLECsIg6QK1q4WtcP+vJpIAZStWrVu0XthRB+tMro0eW7p8mRCmTAvjHNQMNjOnTnv1 dvqU1BFCUJpDfxo9Cqgn0qVMmzp1qfSp1KlUq3p7aDWr1q1cT+xb1PVc0Js2FYU9i7YduYxp gbG9cIls27lLe76li+ouRVJ4+z61O0qUXL9mrAiGK4sl4cVG7RpEyTgQQMg4C1KOjBnq2seD M4OZ3BkZQc+kNaMEXVoyZz4JQ6d+3UtpYFGw/cyexafkwtq8u0XtDTy4cA+/hxs/jvyg6+TM 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uF5YhY1ahRM6qT96po34L6Hao5+6n4FY9v5qc5V5ilXqrQ3YqxmrrM26VMtDIhsaBiP6rM+t g/+ZrUd4IuOac6t4dOMZpu0ar+9ZMLPybikXshc7ql0aSPyNb58vRQCYc0urZ1uWQp9SC0M7 MUkvbMNmn79Yb+VUCy8hM4FVbOKxmWx3mlGvqOf6q0kZkY+1O4N5atV5U52Zo4+Ztxlvkn27 t4cZnoeVOAs6lcsZN4H5uF85EpO7F5qPoJ+5uXdbXLXbl7vbuG0bX4Q7umtZnBuWnHN5WVXB u8q+ebgXtLzJ+Z3Fy3PVO9YIuVr/9b3d2byj+2Hpm+P0Dj6H9po/BmMHvGOyuSkQnCn8W4tw j8EfHC8OG8InPGM6m8Iv3OssHMM3PO8cnMM/vMM3GcRHnO1I3MTfzWgNXMVXnMVb3MVfHMZj XMZd/MRrfCwKAAA7 --------------000704060709040409070501-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18641 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2000 20:30:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Feb 2000 20:30:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GSkw-0002KX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2000 20:21:34 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111] helo=gadolinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GSkt-0002KS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2000 20:21:31 +0000 Received: from [62.6.82.79] (helo=default) by gadolinium with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12GSkn-0002yK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:21:26 +0000 Message-ID: <000401bf6e83$9d46d7a0$4f52063e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Cluster Spots ...and the net Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 00:40:35 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Wolf, DL1SAN has reminded me of the OH web cluster site http://oh2aq.kolumbus.com/dxs/ In the past we rejected this as having some very odd LF postings that could not be relied upon. Wolf sent me a posting from last weekend and whilst it contains all of his postings that were received at my local Cluster GB7DXM, it also has some interesting 'new' callsigns flagged up. I5TGC, OZ5ULO (which I suspect is a corruption of OG5UFO but never mind), a posting that looks like it might have been from Toni giving a report on Peter G3LDO, and some entries posted from S57A (he only seems to be hearing Toni and Italian stations at the moment) This site may be worth a look at occasionally now. Wolf has offered to post me entries from DB0MDX, which is in southern Germany , and it will be interesting to see if these spots are propagating to the UK. If they are interesting I will include them in my weekly reports. I had stopped posting G activity for propagation to Europe, because I must post it at 1800kHz due to shortcommings in the original software at GB7DXM. I may well start again if it looks as though knowledge of UK activity might stimulate stations in eastern Europe. 73 de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3457 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2000 20:31:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Feb 2000 20:31:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GSn7-0002Ki-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2000 20:23:49 +0000 Received: from mb09.swip.net ([193.12.122.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GSn6-0002Kd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2000 20:23:48 +0000 Received: from win95 (d212-151-33-243.swipnet.se [212.151.33.243]) by mb09.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA28830 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2000 21:23:34 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <001101bf6e84$f9fe6340$f32197d4@win95.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: SV: LF: SV: Re: Special LF event - new attempt - 7S6SAJ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 21:26:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >Well, what is the ... ahem ... expected input V x I to the drains of your final >transistors, gentlemens? > >Assuming a PA efficiency of 0.1%, of course ... Actually we have a special permission from the authorities to use 1kW e.m.r.p. So there's no reason to go QRP. /Christer sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19252 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2000 23:49:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Feb 2000 23:49:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GVrp-0003dX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2000 23:40:53 +0000 Received: from sand4.global.net.uk ([195.147.246.106]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GVrl-0003dS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2000 23:40:49 +0000 Received: from p8ds09a07.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.233.142] helo=howett) by sand4.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12GVtv-0004tR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 3 Feb 2000 23:43:03 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Comments: Authenticated sender is From: howett@mail.globalnet.co.uk To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 23:41:12 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Filter capacitors In-reply-to: <17680.200002031444@gemini> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I note the comments on faulty filter capacitors with interest. Not certain of details of the transmitter responsible for the "Growler" on 73.3kHz but if it's a) High powered b) Valved c) Old then it may well not have any! it not being unknown for them to rely on inductive smoothing (plus "stray" capacity to ground) for the reduction in ripple on HT (11kV+) Are there any seasoned engineers out there who can confirm or comment on this? Regards Paul G4MD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15827 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2000 05:59:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Feb 2000 05:59:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GbcL-0005xJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2000 05:49:17 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from ds9.sci.fi ([195.74.0.54]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GbcK-0005xE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2000 05:49:16 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from default (MMDCCXCVI.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.45.96]) by ds9.sci.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA03595 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 07:49:14 +0200 (EET) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000204075024.00897d50@laatikko.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@laatikko.saunalahti.fi X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:50:24 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: Signal Strength Measurements by OH2LX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Measurements of UK Decca's and some other stations : ---------------------------------------------------------- Day ------------------ 30Jan 31Jan 01Feb 02Feb 03Feb Time, UTC ------------ 2205- 2145- 2205- 2200- 2130- ---------------------------------------------------------- kHz Ch *d,km AZI* *Indicated ESH2 input, dBmW* ---------------------------------------------------------- 127.8 (6C), 1435, 280, -103 -105 -107 -104 -104 ---------------------------------------------------------- 126.7 (2A), 1565, 269, -104 -108 -101 -108 -105 ---------------------------------------------------------- 128.5 (8E), 1766, 276, -108 -108 -101 -106 -106 ---------------------------------------------------------- 127.0 (3B), 1871, 257, -104 -110 -107 -107 -104 ---------------------------------------------------------- 127.5 (5B), 1890, 247, -101 -109 -103 -107 -102 ---------------------------------------------------------- 128.2 (7D), 2060, 267, -112 -116 -115 -118 -116 ---------------------------------------------------------- 126.4 (1B), 2282, 253, -109 -116 -115 -118 -116 ---------------------------------------------------------- kHz Ch *d,km AZI* *Indicated ESH2 input, dBmW* ---------------------------------------------------------- 128.93 ref, 1553, 228, -73 -88 -81 -81 -77 ---------------------------------------------------------- 135.8 SXV 2490, 182, -104 -110 -103 off -109 ---------------------------------------------------------- 137.0 CFH 5750, 295, -124 -129 Nil Nil Nil ---------------------------------------------------------- OH3LYG -105 - -102 - - ---------------------------------------------------------- OH1BS 161, 268 -121 - -118 - -118 ---------------------------------------------------------- 30Jan 2145: OG5UFO fades a lot! -105...-115 (d=152km)! 30Jan 1750: SM6PXJ -120 30Jan 2146: IK5MXX -121 01Feb 2034: OH7OL -126 01Feb 2000: DJ9IE -126 03Feb 2022: G3KEV -124, 2135 cq: -124, 2226 cq: -123 03Feb 2258: OH7OL -128 --------------------------------------------------------- (R&S ESH2/---- 10m coax---/1:10/---15m wire-----): Noise level with antenna: with 200Hz IF BandWidth: -24..-22 dB(uV), -131..-129dBmW (varies w qrm etc) --------------------------------------------------------- End of message of 04 Feb 2000, 0550 UTC, from OH2LX ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2286 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2000 07:49:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Feb 2000 07:49:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GdNN-0006gN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:41:57 +0000 Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GdNM-0006gI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:41:56 +0000 Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.53) with SMTP id 03033822 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 08:41:37 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <389BAAA9.C86074D5@phonakcom.ch> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 20:44:25 -0800 From: "Toni Baertschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: SV: LF: SV: Re: Special LF event - new attempt - 7S6SAJ References: <001101bf6e84$f9fe6340$f32197d4@win95.swipnet.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Have you also the permission to use a very good receiver which matches the kilowatt? 73 de Toni, HB2ASB C Andersson wrote: > >Well, what is the ... ahem ... expected input V x I to the drains of your final > >transistors, gentlemens? > > > >Assuming a PA efficiency of 0.1%, of course ... > > Actually we have a special permission from the authorities to use 1kW e.m.r.p. So there's no reason to go QRP. > > /Christer > sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1059 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2000 11:59:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Feb 2000 11:59:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GhHY-0008Nw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2000 11:52:12 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GhHV-0008Nr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2000 11:52:09 +0000 Received: from [213.1.148.161] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12GhHN-00068V-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:52:04 +0000 Message-ID: <001601bf6f05$9dbb9860$a19401d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Hum sidebands Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:46:41 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I seem to remember that the 50/100 Hz sidebands were quoted as -45dB on the main signal for the growler on 73 kHz. I think we have to be just a little careful when we interpret displays from sound card FFTs on very big signals. Despite the bit count I suspect that 45dB is approaching the dynamic range of the system. There are also effects that can occur which are a function of the sound card AGC, and the FFT processing, sample rate, windowing, smoothing, and anti-aliasing. Not to mention intermod effects. Nevertheless I often see a pair of 100Hz sidebands on the stronger signals received here on 136kHz. G3KAU, G3XTZ, G3YXM, G3KEV, G3LDO. These are usually of the order of 30-35dB down on the main signal, but I am not convinced that this is an accurate view of what is really happening. I suspect a conventional Spectrum Analyser closer to the Tx would report much lower levels. I have noticed that some signals will produce a ghost image that I think is an intermodulation product of some kind in the wide-band display on FFTDSP4, but not on the normal display. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24328 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2000 15:08:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Feb 2000 15:08:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Gk58-00019n-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2000 14:51:34 +0000 Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Gk4z-00019i-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2000 14:51:26 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12Gk2J-0000hY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2000 14:48:39 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <5980.200002041455@gemini> From: "James Moritz" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:56:16 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: 73kHz / Soundcards X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Re: 73kHz Sideband noises / Soundcards Dear LF Group, I quite agree with Alan that measuring noise levels using a soundcard is unlikely to result in a definitive measurement, but in the few minutes available it was that or nothing. The point was that the Rugby transmitter definitely has significant levels of noise sidebands due to power supply ripple, and that it is quite feasible that these are responsible for the noises we hear. A noise level -45dB relative to the carrier, within a few 100Hz of the carrier is probably pretty good performance, or at least not a major fault - after all, there is bound to be some ripple, and -45dB would correspond to only1% or so voltage ripple. Most amateur transmitters are probably not as good as this, but are unlikely to be a problem, since the ERPs involved are of the order of a million times smaller - I estimate the ERP of my 73kHz signal is a whopping 5 - 10mW! Since soundcards and software like Spectrogram have many other uses to radio amateurs apart from reading QRSS, it would be interesting to know if any data exists about the dynamic range & spurious responses of the soundcard/software combination - does anyone have any information? I expect to be adding my own contribution to the 73kHz noise level this evening from about 20.00 onwards - hope to see you there? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22288 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2000 16:48:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Feb 2000 16:48:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GldF-0001xT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2000 16:30:53 +0000 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GldC-0001xO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2000 16:30:50 +0000 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12GldW-0000GZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:31:11 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Fri, 04 Feb 2000 16:25:57 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:25:54 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz / Soundcards In-reply-to: <5980.200002041455@gemini> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: M0BMU wrote: > A noise level -45dB relative to the carrier, within a few 100Hz of > the carrier is probably pretty good performance, or at least not a > major fault - after all, there is bound to be some ripple, and -45dB would > correspond to only1% or so voltage ripple. But the point is that previously it was much lower than this, so something has changed. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18276 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2000 17:18:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Feb 2000 17:18:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GmEP-0002J5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2000 17:09:17 +0000 Received: from as-img-4.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.147] helo=spamgaad.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GmEO-0002J0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2000 17:09:16 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id MAA14412 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:09:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:07:44 -0500 From: "DEREK ATTER" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: OG5UFO - Good signals into UK on 137.00 Khz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200002041208_MC2-97D2-2456@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Derek, G3GRO, IO91VC, Had a good QSO with Reino OG5UFO last night starting at 00-45 UTC on 137.00Khz lasting for 20 miutes. He was 549/559 and gave me RST329 then later RST 539 with some QSB. Reino was almost exactly on the same frequency within a few Hz of CFH in Canada who at that time of night was S8 with me and completely swamping Reino until I switched in the canceller loop antenna. Then CFH completely vanished leaving Reino in the clear with a nice quiet background - fortunately the noise QRM which I often experience from a nearby British Telecom cable carrying a high speed data stream was absent. For informtion, Reino suggested that QSLs being sent direct should be held back until after 29th of Feb. The signal canceller is working very well with a very simple arrangement. The plane of the single turn loop antenna runs East-West the size of which is roughly 8m by 12m slung between two trees. The signal from the loop is subtracted from the main omni-directional inverted L antenna giving a resultant cardioid polar pattern with a null which can be steered anywhere within a 180 degree azimuth sector either to the east or to the west switched by inverting the phase of the loop relative to the L W. transmitting antenna. The main use is to cancel Loran QRM but since the Loran is in the SW direction from me and CFH to the west, both can be pretty well cancelled at the same time when the optimum direction of the cardioid is pointed towards the continent. 73 de Derek, G3GRO IO91VC, 300W, Antenna : 50 m long inverted L up at 16m AGL From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9783 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2000 19:38:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Feb 2000 19:38:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GoRN-0003Fi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2000 19:30:49 +0000 Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.15]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GoRL-0003Fd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2000 19:30:48 +0000 Received: from [203.96.99.205] by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <20000204193030.ISXJ3352759.mta4-rme@[203.96.99.205]> for ; Sat, 5 Feb 2000 08:30:30 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <389B289A.6939@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 08:29:30 +1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz / Soundcards References: <5980.200002041455@gemini> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: snip snip > Since soundcards and software like Spectrogram have many other > uses to radio amateurs apart from reading QRSS, it would be > interesting to know if any data exists about the dynamic range & > spurious responses of the soundcard/software combination - does > anyone have any information? Also bear in mind the performance of the audio stages in the radio receiver feeding the sound card. Some time back I was testing IF filters in a receiver, viewing demodulated output for feeding wideband noise to the RF input, and the sound card "spectrum analyser" gave a false indication compared to doing the test at RF. On investigating, the explanation was that harmomic distortion in the audio stages was where the "apparent funny response" was arising. As the sound card was intended for "hi fi stereo" it was better performing for distortion and intermod than my receiver audio lineup. Also there is unlikely to be no hum from the receiver PSU being impressed on the audio output. I came to a conclusion that the sound card was good at indicating filter PASSBANDS, but suspect for indicating steep skirts and stop bands. Audio noise and intermod can easily fill in deep notches on an IF response as indicated on the PC display. I have never been happy about the "lines" on the very low frequency end of a spectrogram display with no audio fed to a sound card (irrespective of whether the audio is open, shorted or 600 ohms shielded load). This is some sort of low frequency switching breakthrough in the sound card itself, and varies between specific cards (and probably with sampling rate on the card?). As my PC was under warranty I did not fiddle about with it, but in due course I may try added shielding and filtering of power supply rails. Some PCs have the "sound card" implemented on the motherboard, so fiddling would be more difficult with those. Sound card application programmes are generally good, but be cautious in the interpretation of audio domain displays when attempting to use it for RF testing. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18495 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2000 21:49:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Feb 2000 21:49:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GqM0-0004AU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2000 21:33:24 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from aurora.eexi.gr ([195.167.28.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GqLx-0004AP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2000 21:33:22 +0000 Received: from odin (ppp62.dialup.eexi.gr [195.167.28.126]) by aurora.eexi.gr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA00883 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 23:33:24 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20000204232500.006ea638@aurora.eexi.gr> X-Sender: sv1xv@aurora.eexi.gr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 23:25:00 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Costas Krallis" Subject: Re: LF: Filter capacitors In-reply-to: References: <17680.200002031444@gemini> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 23:41 03/02/2000 +0000, you wrote: > I note the comments on faulty filter capacitors with interest. Not > certain of details of the transmitter responsible for the "Growler" > on 73.3kHz but if it's a) High powered > b) Valved > c) Old > > then it may well not have any! it not being unknown for them to rely > on inductive smoothing (plus "stray" capacity to ground) for the > reduction in ripple on HT (11kV+) As the power is quite high, there is also the possibility of feeding the power supply from a 3-phase source. In this case no capacitor is required and an inductive filter is ok, until one of the rectifiers or one of the 3 phases fail. Then, you get a 50 Hz component which cannot be filtered easily. Costas +------------------------------------------------------------+ | Costas Krallis SV1XV * LOC KM18UA | | P.O.Box 3066 * FAX: +30-1-3811362 | | GR-10210 Athens * E-Mail: sv1xv@eexi.gr | | GREECE * | +------------------------------------------------------------+ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11386 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2000 22:03:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Feb 2000 22:03:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Gqhj-0004M6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2000 21:55:51 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Gqhi-0004M1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2000 21:55:50 +0000 Received: from [62.6.87.194] (helo=default) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12GqhV-0000Cj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:55:37 +0000 Message-ID: <000701bf6f59$f41d5a00$c257063e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: 73.4kHz Rugby ...more thoughts Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:41:45 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, yes Mike I do take on board that things have got considerably worse during the last 12 months. I decided to listen tonight (Friday) to see if I could detect any traces from you. In fact after logging one weak continuous trace about long enough for a CQ or an over, I spotted some strange quirks in the display. I spent the next hour monitoring the sidebands of Rugby. The 100Hz sidebands are not I think anything at all to do with the power supply. The transmission is shift keyed with a shift of 100Hz and the sidebands are a function of the shift not hum from the PSU. So I am afraid we are going to have to put up with them. I suspect though I do not have any recording to check, that the transmission has changed from FSK to PSK aand this may account for some of the extra spread (?? conjecture) but..... Has anyone actually looked carefully at the 100Hz lines?? On my dispay they were zooming about all over the place. I have one trace with an 18Hz 'drift' over a 4 minute period. Now it is my appreciation of angle modulation that the spacing of the sidebands are determined by the modulation (increase the mod frequency and they move apart) and their position is determined solely by the carrier frequency (if the carrier drifts 10Hz all the sidebands will move in the same direction by 10Hz) {Please, someone, kick my rear if I have misunderstood my Bessel functions) Unless I am mistaken what I see is that there is in fact a serious fault on the transmission!! It also occurs to me that is there is an instability manifesting itself as a drift over 10s of seconds there could also be 'noise' modulation. As a result (with my tongue stuck firmly in my cheek) I intend to inform my local RA office (which is a sub-office of Birminghan and so covers the site) in writing, of the faulty Rugby transmitting equipment, causing interference to amateur users. I know we have no protection against primary users, but we should not have to contend with badly maintained transmitters. I also intend to copy the letter to the RSGB and to the RA at Canary wharf. I will suggest that as this interference from an govenment transmission has persisted for a period which could be upwards of 12 months, perhaps they would consider delaying the closure of the band to amateurs, to allow our experiments to be continued. (I am on good terms with the local RA 'boys' ) That should be good for a bit of a laugh. Before I send this missive on Monday I would like confirmation that some of you can also see this sideband line 'drift', just to confirm that it is not a product of my own equipment. It is interesting to note that my unsynchronised (VFO) signal generator (TF2002B) stays within a Hz or so for hours on end. I suspect if they clean it up then we will be able to work between the tram-lines again. It is interesting that they were obviously looking for something on Tuesday. You may remember that CFH went off for a day soon after it reappeared. This was due to a power supply instability on the exciter according to Jon and was creating all sorts of havoc. So the professionals DO have problems. Another 18 months on 73 yet?? well we can hope. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 815 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2000 00:33:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Feb 2000 00:33:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GsvE-0005Ok-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 00:17:56 +0000 Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.62]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12GsvC-0005Of-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 00:17:54 +0000 Received: from 216-164-128-41.s41.tnt1.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com ([216.164.128.41] helo=nan-and-sandy) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 12Gsv2-0005X0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:17:44 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:18:21 -0500 Message-ID: <01BF6F44.996733C0.esanders@erols.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Nan and Sandy Sanders" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: 73.4kHz Rugby ...more thoughts Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:17:36 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi, we some times see drifting lines spaced 60 or 120 Hz apart that are harmonics of the 60 Hz line frequency. The drift at 60 Hz (or 50 Hz in your case) is very small but when multiplied 2 or 3 thousand times will show up. I would not expect power supply problems with the transmitter to show up this way. The sidebands should have the same stability as the line (though 100Hz from the carrier would be times 2 , 200Hz times 4 etc) unless they were running on a backup generator that was having some problem holding the load :-). Sandy WB5MMB ---------- From: Alan Melia[SMTP:Alan.Melia@btinternet.com] Reply To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 4:41 PM To: rsgb_lf_group Subject: LF: 73.4kHz Rugby ...more thoughts Hi All, yes Mike I do take on board that things have got considerably worse during the last 12 months. I decided to listen tonight (Friday) to see if I could detect any traces from you. In fact after logging one weak continuous trace about long enough for a CQ or an over, I spotted some strange quirks in the display. I spent the next hour monitoring the sidebands of Rugby. The 100Hz sidebands are not I think anything at all to do with the power supply. The transmission is shift keyed with a shift of 100Hz and the sidebands are a function of the shift not hum from the PSU. So I am afraid we are going to have to put up with them. I suspect though I do not have any recording to check, that the transmission has changed from FSK to PSK aand this may account for some of the extra spread (?? conjecture) but..... Has anyone actually looked carefully at the 100Hz lines?? On my dispay they were zooming about all over the place. I have one trace with an 18Hz 'drift' over a 4 minute period. Now it is my appreciation of angle modulation that the spacing of the sidebands are determined by the modulation (increase the mod frequency and they move apart) and their position is determined solely by the carrier frequency (if the carrier drifts 10Hz all the sidebands will move in the same direction by 10Hz) {Please, someone, kick my rear if I have misunderstood my Bessel functions) Unless I am mistaken what I see is that there is in fact a serious fault on the transmission!! It also occurs to me that is there is an instability manifesting itself as a drift over 10s of seconds there could also be 'noise' modulation. As a result (with my tongue stuck firmly in my cheek) I intend to inform my local RA office (which is a sub-office of Birminghan and so covers the site) in writing, of the faulty Rugby transmitting equipment, causing interference to amateur users. I know we have no protection against primary users, but we should not have to contend with badly maintained transmitters. I also intend to copy the letter to the RSGB and to the RA at Canary wharf. I will suggest that as this interference from an govenment transmission has persisted for a period which could be upwards of 12 months, perhaps they would consider delaying the closure of the band to amateurs, to allow our experiments to be continued. (I am on good terms with the local RA 'boys' ) That should be good for a bit of a laugh. Before I send this missive on Monday I would like confirmation that some of you can also see this sideband line 'drift', just to confirm that it is not a product of my own equipment. It is interesting to note that my unsynchronised (VFO) signal generator (TF2002B) stays within a Hz or so for hours on end. I suspect if they clean it up then we will be able to work between the tram-lines again. It is interesting that they were obviously looking for something on Tuesday. You may remember that CFH went off for a day soon after it reappeared. This was due to a power supply instability on the exciter according to Jon and was creating all sorts of havoc. So the professionals DO have problems. Another 18 months on 73 yet?? well we can hope. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8505 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2000 11:22:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Feb 2000 11:22:06 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12H3B5-00016X-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 11:14:59 +0000 Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12H3B4-00016S-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 11:14:58 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12H3Az-0003fQ-0Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 5 Feb 2000 11:14:53 +0000 Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 11:12:28 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: LF: G3XTZ on 73 KHz MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Congrats Graham G3XTZ on our cross-band 73/136 QSO this morning. Your signals were a solid 549 in 500 Hz bandwidth on 71.8 KHz at 1010 utc, despite the colossal racket from Rugby. 73 Tom, G3OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27328 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2000 15:24:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Feb 2000 15:24:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12H6xS-0002cq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 15:17:10 +0000 Received: from xyber.irisz.hu ([212.92.1.142] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12H6xR-0002cl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 15:17:09 +0000 Received: from xyber.irisz.hu (IDENT:ivan@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xyber.irisz.hu (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA05674 for ; Sat, 5 Feb 2000 15:16:53 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <389C3EE4.60EE807F@irisz.hu> Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 15:16:52 +0000 From: "Ivan Artner" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: IMC X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 7S6SAJ References: <001601bf6f05$9dbb9860$a19401d5@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Geeees what a signal!!!! go for it state side!!! Congratulations! 73 de Ivan HA5TS From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27731 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2000 16:27:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Feb 2000 16:27:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12H7w6-000365-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 16:19:50 +0000 Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.72]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12H7w2-00035t-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 16:19:46 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.3b.abcc94 (4367) for ; Sat, 5 Feb 2000 11:18:59 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3b.abcc94.25cda773@aol.com> Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 11:18:59 EST Subject: LF: 73kHz: Rugby = 2 * FSK + intermod To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------080500020102070405000506" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 62 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080500020102070405000506 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi friends, after following the discussion on Rugby's sidebands I had a look on the spectrum as received here in northern Bavaria (JN59NK). It seems that it consists of two transmissions in parallel: One FSK pair on 73164+-50Hz using 100 baud and the other on 73334+-50Hz with 50 baud. Both have equal powers and are probably generated by a single tx! The problem seems to be the intermodulation between the two: Here I could see 3 to 4 IM products on each side of the carriers: IM3 is abt 24dB below each carrier, IM5 29dB and IM7 33dB down. I have included a small spectrogram display clearly showing the two signals and their IM, using 43 Hz Bandwidth to time-resolve the fsk. In the averaged line spectra (256 points beginning at 72 kHz and 2048 pts from 72.9kHz), you can see that even here the IM dips into the noise (-66dB rx noise in 10.8Hz) only at 72.0 kHz. We have a somewhat similar problem in the Frankfurt region, with two (seperate) transmitters in Mainflingen on 123kHz and 129kHz. Their IM3 product around 135kHz has sidebands up to 137kHz. If you can hear one another in the IM sidebands within the UK and we can here the noise down here, we should also be able to hear your transmissions (at least in qrss or dfcw modes). 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E/8BUEsBAjILCgAAAAAAc4BFKAuScrFiDwAAYg8AAAsAAAAAAAAAAAAgALaBAAAAAFI3Mmsz SHouZ2lmUEsBAjILCgAAAAAAqoBFKBj2e2qADwAAgA8AAAwAAAAAAAAAAAAgALaBiw8AAFI3 MmsxMUh6LmdpZlBLAQIyCxQAAAAIAOuGRShXe205XhEAAHcSAAAMAAAAAAAAAAAAIAC2gTUf AABSNzJrNDNIei5qcGdQSwUGAAAAAAMAAwCtAAAAvTAAAAAA --------------080500020102070405000506-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27819 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2000 16:27:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Feb 2000 16:27:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12H7w5-000361-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 16:19:49 +0000 Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.66]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12H7w4-00035u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 16:19:48 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.ae.f34f13 (4367) for ; Sat, 5 Feb 2000 11:19:01 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 11:19:01 EST Subject: LF: 7S6SAJ: ufb sigs To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 62 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Christer, hi all, beautiful kilowatt signal here in Bavaria (JN59NK) today at 1410: 7S6SAJ 33 dBuV/m, G3KEV and G3YXM both about 4 dBuV/m. 73 de Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4071 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2000 17:20:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Feb 2000 17:20:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12H8mq-0003QH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 17:14:20 +0000 Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12H8mp-0003QC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 17:14:19 +0000 Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.53) with SMTP id 03189032 for ; Sat, 5 Feb 2000 18:14:07 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <389C5A70.65A9F3DD@phonakcom.ch> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:14:24 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Toni_B=E4rtschi?= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [de] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en-US,en-GB,fr-FR MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 7S6SAJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >>From HB2ASB, JN36PT Strong signal, same level as the Greek station on 135.75 73 de Toni From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10561 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2000 17:39:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Feb 2000 17:39:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12H94J-0003Wk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 17:32:23 +0000 Received: from [206.67.58.119] (helo=radiometrix.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12H94I-0003Wf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 17:32:22 +0000 Received: from default [62.188.151.55] by radiometrix.co.uk with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id AE41AF5014C; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 12:30:41 -0500 Message-ID: <000701bf6ffe$d5a1f2c0$3797bc3e@default> From: "Kevin Ravenhill" To: "RSGB LF Group" Subject: LF: 7S6SAJ Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 17:30:37 -0000 Organization: Radiometrix Ltd. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Colossal signals this afternoon from 7S6SAJ, here in SW England using my regenerative Rx and piece of wet string.... 59+9 and by far the strongest signal I have ever heard on the band apart from G3OLB who is <20km away from me. QRM from the Greek RTTY on the other sideband was easily clobbered by the signals from Sweden, as was my local mains QRM which normally makes reception impossible from dusk onwards. 73, Kevin G1HDQ. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11342 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2000 19:20:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Feb 2000 19:20:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HAbr-0004E3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 19:11:07 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HAbq-0004Dy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 19:11:06 +0000 Received: from as23-s15-143-28.cwci.net ([195.44.143.28] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HAbk-0007cf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 19:11:01 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <389C7473.4193D697@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 19:05:23 +0000 From: "g3kev" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: 7S6SAJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The strongest signal that I have ever heard on 136 khz. 7S6SAJ was S9 plus plus with his 210 metre high antenna. The only other signal on the band nearly as strong is MM0ALM. Who says large antennas are not necessary and have little advantage over loops or low slung long wires !!!! When EI0CF was using his work QTH antennas he was also an extremely strong signal. These stations are only using modest output rf power. Chris might be using higher power but the antenna launching the signals is the prime factor. I heard numerous UK and other EU stations calling but did not succeed in making a qso. With an antenna like that also on receive one wonders why they were not heard. In the light of this experience the chances of a transatlantic qso are nil except those interested make an effort to improve the antenna height. Increasing the rf power, although helpful is not the ANSWER. 73 de MAL/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15588 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2000 19:42:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Feb 2000 19:42:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HAzd-0004Pm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 19:35:41 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HAzc-0004Ph-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 19:35:40 +0000 Received: from [195.44.219.155] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HAzW-0001Om-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 19:35:35 +0000 Message-ID: <389C7B22.98199EAE@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 19:33:54 +0000 From: "g3kev" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 7S6SAJ References: <001601bf6f05$9dbb9860$a19401d5@default> <389C3EE4.60EE807F@irisz.hu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Ivan Artner wrote: > Geeees what a signal!!!! > > go for it state side!!! > > Congratulations! > > 73 de Ivan HA5TS Hi Ivan. You do not mention any other stations that you heard. Did you hear only 7S6SAJ. The 7S6SAJ stands the best chance plus a couple of others with lesser antenna systems but never the less big antennas to work across the atlantic. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15812 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2000 19:43:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Feb 2000 19:43:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HAza-0004Pf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 19:35:38 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HAzZ-0004Pa-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 19:35:37 +0000 Received: from [195.44.219.155] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HAzT-0001Oj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 19:35:32 +0000 Message-ID: <389C7946.F54C1AD@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 19:25:58 +0000 From: "g3kev" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 7S6SAJ: ufb sigs References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: MarkusVester@aol.com wrote: > Hi Christer, hi all, > > beautiful kilowatt signal here in Bavaria (JN59NK) today at 1410: > 7S6SAJ 33 dBuV/m, > G3KEV and G3YXM both about 4 dBuV/m. Just goes to show the difference in RECEIVING capabilities, receivers and antennas etc Chris gave G3KEV 599 and G3YXM 579. Two S points difference ie 12 db. You report both the same!!!!! The only true reports, are those exchanged by the two stations working each other, otherwise all need to be equal distance, especially on LF from the analyising station. de Mal/G3KEV > > > 73 de Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22907 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2000 21:58:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Feb 2000 21:58:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HD52-0005JR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 21:49:24 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HD50-0005JM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 21:49:22 +0000 Received: from [195.44.222.134] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HD4u-0000dA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2000 21:49:17 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <389C9AA9.11B227F9@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 21:48:25 +0000 From: "g3kev" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: 136 activity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All. A lot of activity today Saturday. 7S6SAT vy big signal all day. Morning vy busy with acty from every corner SM4DHN, IK5ZPV, OG5UFO, ON, OZ, DL/DJ, and lots of G acty. Worked DF3OE, his first G stn and then OM2TW early evening, a new country for me. Wx here dry and mild, temp 11c with an intermittent breeze. 73 de MAL/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10738 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2000 00:22:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Feb 2000 00:22:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HFLW-0006Io-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 00:14:34 +0000 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HFLV-0006Ij-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 00:14:33 +0000 Received: from [213.1.179.140] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12HFLP-0006Ht-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 6 Feb 2000 00:14:27 +0000 Message-ID: <000f01bf7036$857efc60$8cb301d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: More observations on the 'Growler' 73.25kHz Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 20:34:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks to Marcus, who pointed out that the transmission is, as I should have known, and ISB transmission with data two channels, one on each sideband. When I listened on Friday evening only the lower sideband channel was in use, which misled me. Tonight both were in use and at 1927z the upper sideband went into idle for 2.5 mins, and by 2030 only the upper sideband channel was in use. When both are in use there are pairs of 'noise' sidebands visible at some distance from the main signal, for instance these were visible at 72.61 and 72.37kHz tonight. Thus I suspect that the 'width' of the noise that we hear when trying to work 73k is probably a function of how busy that channel is....whether both sideband channels are in use. It may be that a couple of years ago it was mainly used on just one sideband. That deals with the my thoughts on the noise. The 100Hz lines we can see are referenced to the 'subcarrier' at the middle of the lower sideband 100Hz shift signal. ( I thought this was a symetrical carrier shift signal.) It is still drifting around like mad tonight. The lines remain accurately 100Hz part far out from the signal, and as they move away from the carrier their amplitude is 'modulated' by another envelope, so that strong lines seem to appear mostly in pairs, with one or sometimes two intermediate lines very weak. I still cannot understand why they seem to drift slowly, because the envelope to the sideband data transmission seems to be stable. I can only assume that the modulation is a phase shift variant and the apparent shift of the sub-carrier is is a function of the data. It could of course still be that they have a bug in the baseband modulator, but I now doubt it. I think I will slide away into my hole again and not bother rattling the RAs cage just yet. Thanks for the comments Marcus....just what I was seeking....support or otherwise. I suspect I may devote my efforts to 8kHz now at least the Rugby station (GBR) is an octave away!! 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10762 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2000 04:43:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Feb 2000 04:43:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HJPj-000851-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 04:35:11 +0000 Received: from as-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.148] helo=spamgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HJPi-00084w-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 04:35:10 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id XAA22668 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 5 Feb 2000 23:35:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 23:33:52 -0500 From: "Lech Laszkiewicz" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 7S6SAJ To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200002052334_MC2-97F1-EE99@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: De G3KAU Worked Chris 7S6SAJ both ways on 136.6KHz this morning, 06/02/2000 at 0357utc. Chris was rst 599 plus 10db, he gave me 589. Chris called CQ several times, but no takers. Must be the case of "early bird catching the worm" G3XDV was working slow CW a little earlier but must have gone "horizontal" just before 7S6SAJ started listening on 136KHz 73 de Lech. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5548 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2000 05:23:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Feb 2000 05:23:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HK3H-0008Hp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 05:16:03 +0000 Received: from as-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.146] helo=spamgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HK3G-0008Hk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 05:16:02 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id AAA18404 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 6 Feb 2000 00:15:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 00:15:27 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: F is QRV now! To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200002060015_MC2-97F6-9235@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF-enthusiasts! For those of you, who are not that fluent in French: what this letter says is, that since December 31, 1999, France has the authorization to use 135.7-137.8 kHz with 1 Watt ERP. Welcome to the Club! Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) f1tay wrote: > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : RA-News > Groupes de discussion : fr.rec.radio > Date : vendredi 4 février 2000 21:06 > Objet : 136KHz --- l'ouverture aux radioamateurs > > >COMMUNIQUE SPECIAL > >D'INFORMATION de la C.F.R.R. > > > > > >du 4 février 2000 N° 2000-01 > > > > > > > >Nous avons le plaisir de vous informer comme nous l'avions fait dans notre > >communiqué 99-04 et 04A > >du 4 et 11 février 1999 pour l'officialisation de la bande 1810 ŕ 1850 Khz > >et la confirmation des acquis > >du 50 Mhz (arręté du 1er Ministre du 25 janvier 1999, Tableau national de > >répartition des bandes de > >fréquences, annexe A3 de l'ANFr) > > > >Le 136 Khz est officiellement ouvert aux Radioamateurs français depuis le > 31 > >décembre 1999. > > > >L'arręté 1er Ministre du 21 décembre 1999 portant modification du tableau > >national de répartition des > >bandes de fréquences, paru au J.O. du 30 décembre 1999 avec publication par > >l'ANFr de cette > >modification N°1 du 31 décembre 1999. > > > >Cette bande de fréquence est ouverte dans les męmes conditions que dans les > >autres pays européens > >conformément ŕ la recommandation CEPT/ERC/T/R 62-01. La bande est limitée > de > >135.7 - 137.8 > >Khz ŕ titre secondaire avec 1 Watt P.A.R. > > > >Pour mémoire. Si l'on utilise un aérien raccourci, pour rayonner 1 Watt ŕ > >l'antenne, il faut sortir plus > >de 100 Watts de puissance au PA. Un calcul simple donne une longueur d'onde > >de 2.206 mčtres, ce > >qui fait pour un quart d'onde 551 mčtres (plus haut de la Tour Eiffel). > Donc > >forcement utilisation > >d'aérien raccourci, d'oů pertes de 20 ŕ 30 dB en moyenne. > >Pour mémoire 30 dB divisent la puissance par 1000. > >Alors ŕ demain sur le 136 Khz et bons QSO sur cette nouvelle bande. > > > > > > > >Ce communiqué est disponible sur le réseau packet et Internet > >(http://www.cfrr.org) et libre de diffusion sous > >réserve qu'elle soit intégrale. > > > >Fin du communiqué n° 2000 - 01 > > > >Le Président > >Bernard SINEUX / F5LPQ > > > > > > > > > >Confédération Française des Radioamateurs et Radioécouteurs > > > >Association ŕ but non lucratif, régie par la loi 1901 > >_________________________________________________________________________ > >C.F.R.R. - Confédération Française des Radioamateurs et Radioécouteurs. > >Sičge social : 26, rue Dagorno > >75012 PARIS FRANCE > >E-mail : cfrr@cfrr.org - Serveur : http://www.cfrr.org > > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20529 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2000 05:31:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Feb 2000 05:31:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HKAT-0008NF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 05:23:29 +0000 Received: from as-img-4.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.147] helo=spamgaad.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HKAS-0008N8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 05:23:28 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id AAA25038; Sun, 6 Feb 2000 00:22:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 00:22:25 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 7S6SAJ To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "lf" Message-ID: <200002060022_MC2-97F6-9251@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello friends, I worked 7S6SAJ yesterday afternoon. Currenty he is 40 dBmicroVolt/m here in Slow-CW, which is the strongest ham-signal I have ever heard! 7S6SAJ is "only" 45 dB weaker than DCF39 here, but he is much further away (700 something km vs. 120 km)! So well worth to give it a try over there at the other side of the big pond! Vy 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) http://www.qru.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29919 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2000 05:44:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Feb 2000 05:44:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HKNo-0008T8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 05:37:16 +0000 Received: from ghosthost.radar.no ([194.143.115.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HKNm-0008T3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 05:37:15 +0000 Received: from radar.no (magne@vanilla.radar.no [194.143.115.53]) by ghosthost.radar.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07403 for ; Sun, 6 Feb 2000 06:37:08 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <389D07E8.6C63E7F7@radar.no> Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 06:34:32 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Magne_M=E6hre?= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,ja,no MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 7S6SAJ References: <200002052334_MC2-97F1-EE99@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Lech Laszkiewicz wrote: > > De G3KAU > Worked Chris 7S6SAJ both ways on 136.6KHz this morning, 06/02/2000 at > 0357utc. Chris was rst 599 plus 10db, he gave me 589. Chris called CQ > several times, but no takers. Must be the case of "early bird catching the > worm" I listened in on that QSO and copied 7S6SAJ with about 529 on a 160m dipole that was buried in the trees (we had some severe storms the last couple of weeks, so all our antennas are damaged) Anyway, it was the first ever ham station to be heard on 136kHz - so it was a great inspiration. Hope to have a transmitter up very soon now... --Magne / la1bfa (operating from LA1K in JP53EK) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13998 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2000 07:00:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Feb 2000 07:00:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HLWs-0000Pg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 06:50:42 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.53] helo=pefletti.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HLWr-0000Pb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 06:50:41 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from default (MMCCXXXIII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.43.133]) by pefletti.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA21793 for ; Sun, 6 Feb 2000 08:50:38 +0200 (EET) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000206085037.0085ea10@laatikko.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@laatikko.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 08:50:37 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: 7S6SAJ - Special Report MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: 7S6SAJ Special - 5 February 2000 (All times: UTC) -------------------------------------------------- 1959 136.3 7S6SAJ calls CQ +5 -102 2008 OH3LYG works 7S6 +5 -102 2012 SM4DHN works 7S6 -18 2018 OH1TN works 7S6 -3 -110 2032 DK9DX works 7S6 (<-23) (<-130) 2041 OM2DX works 7S6 (<-23) (<-130) 2145 136.9 7S6SAJ calls CQ +16 -91 2146 OH1LSQ works 7S6 -23 -130 After this 7S6SAJ seems to be working cross-band -------------------------------------------------- Time Station dB(uV) dBmW -------------------------------------------------- 2015 OH1BS calls 7S6 -13 -120 2118 DJ9IE calls CQ -23 -130 2128 G3KEV working ? -24 -131 -------------------------------------------------- 7S6SAJ (JO78FL) d=636km, azimuth=253degrees (the strongest ham station I have heard on LF, with max obs strength (2140) +16 -91 ) -------------------------------------------------- Reference stations measured (20-22 UTC): SXV Marathon 135.8 -4..+2 -111..-105 DCF49 Mainfl. 128.93 +26 -81 (ave) DBF39 Burg 138.83 (weak) +19 -89 (ave) --------------------------------------------------- For approximate Fs (dB(uV/m) add +20 dB to dB(uV) --------------------------------------------------- (R&S ESH2/---- 10m coax---/1:10/---15m wire-----): Noise level with antenna: with 200Hz IF BandWidth: -24..-22 dB(uV), -131..-129dBmW (varies w qrm etc) --------------------------------------------------- End of message of 06 Feb 2000, 0850 UTC, from OH2LX ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22537 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2000 09:49:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Feb 2000 09:49:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HOEf-0001Sj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 09:44:05 +0000 Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HOEe-0001Se-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 09:44:04 +0000 Received: from [202.27.181.45] by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <20000206094351.SDHP3144.mta3-rme@[202.27.181.45]> for ; Sun, 6 Feb 2000 22:43:51 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <389D4249.43C5@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 22:43:37 +1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Frozen ground References: <001101bf6e84$f9fe6340$f32197d4@win95.swipnet.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I was not able to find a reference text to eyeball myself, but Andrew ZL2BBJ has supplied the following references about measurements for losses for snow and glacial ice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Watt, "VLF Engineering ", Peramon Press 1967, pp 85 - 87 for effect of snow over buried ground mat, and p 183 for ground conductivity constants. Watt cites Watt A D and Maxwell E L "Measured electrical properties of snow and glacial ice", NBS J. Res. Vol 64D No 4 , July-Aug 1960. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ It continues to be my understanding that frozen ground is much more lossy than unfrozen ground. Copper radials may "save the day" at the antenna site itself, but ground wave propagation beyond the antenna site would encounter natural ground conditions and whatever losses arise can not be avoided. If skywave radiation "took off" from the antenna site (which it likely does) then a skywave path would not be so affected by frozen ground somewhat away from the antenna site. 73, Bob From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9448 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2000 10:52:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Feb 2000 10:52:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HPDP-0001px-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 10:46:51 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HPDO-0001ps-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 10:46:50 +0000 Received: from as31-s16-147-151.cwci.net ([195.44.147.151] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HPDB-0003iL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 10:46:37 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <389D50C6.B359A3F5@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 10:45:26 +0000 From: "g3kev" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: OM/G Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: OM2TW was very active yesterday( Saturday) with a S5 signal all day at my qth, and besides my qso with him he worked a number of other EU stations. OE5ODL was also a good signal consistant S5.and I had my second qso with him. 7S6SAT although a very strong signal most of the time was dropping about 20 db at times. It would be interesting to know why. It was too sudden to be propogation, possibly the tx giving trouble, or the antenna going off resonance, although Chris was receiving well, giving good reports all around europe. This morning the band is again very active. IK5ZPV, LX1PD, GI3PDN, DL, and several G's. I have not heard much PA0 or ON activity for a while. The loudest German station at present is DJ9IE but he has a large antenna, S8 with me most of the time. 73 de MAL/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7394 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2000 11:09:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Feb 2000 11:09:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HPTu-00021v-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 11:03:54 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HPTt-00021q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 11:03:54 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from dennison.demon.co.uk ([194.222.239.33]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12HPTn-0004RI-0C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 6 Feb 2000 11:03:48 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 11:02:14 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Mike Dennison" Subject: Re: LF: 7S6SAJ In-reply-to: <200002052334_MC2-97F1-EE99@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >De G3KAU >G3XDV was working slow CW a little earlier but must have gone "horizontal" >just before 7S6SAJ started listening on 136KHz In fact I was just about to go to bed when I heard a very strong QRSS signal, which turned out to be 7S6SAJ at S9+10dB. Exchanged 'O'/'O' with him before "going horizontal". He was 10db stronger than Lech! -- Mike, G3XDV IO91VT http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29692 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2000 14:14:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Feb 2000 14:14:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HSMI-0003AM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 14:08:14 +0000 Received: from cask.force9.net ([195.166.128.29]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HSMG-0003AH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 14:08:13 +0000 Received: (qmail 20420 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2000 14:08:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO main) (212.159.122.91) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Feb 2000 14:08:04 -0000 Message-ID: <004501bf70ac$43a2ece0$0600a8c0@main> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200002060015_MC2-97F6-9235@compuserve.com> Subject: LF: Re: F is QRV now! Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 14:12:53 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Great! Where are they all? > >what this letter says is, that since December 31, 1999, France has the >authorization to use 135.7-137.8 kHz with 1 Watt ERP. > 73 Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22180 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2000 15:02:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Feb 2000 15:02:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HSzn-0003RQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 14:49:03 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HSzm-0003RL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 14:49:02 +0000 Received: from [195.44.222.189] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HSzg-0001qA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 14:48:57 +0000 Message-ID: <389D899D.588EB435@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 14:47:57 +0000 From: "g3kev" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: F is QRV now! References: <200002060015_MC2-97F6-9235@compuserve.com> <004501bf70ac$43a2ece0$0600a8c0@main> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave wrote: > Great! > > Where are they all? > > > > >what this letter says is, that since December 31, 1999, France has the > >authorization to use 135.7-137.8 kHz with 1 Watt ERP. Tired of waiting. Maybe they dont know about it yet, everybody else does !!!!! There was more xband acty from France before the licence authorization. I have worked several, and always good reports so the antennas are up and ready. Could it be December 2000. 73 Mal/G3KEV > > > > > 73 Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3658 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2000 15:10:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Feb 2000 15:10:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HTDl-0003Tt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 15:03:29 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.53] helo=pefletti.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HTDj-0003To-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 15:03:27 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from default (MCXCVIII.tdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.82.98]) by pefletti.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA04931 for ; Sun, 6 Feb 2000 17:03:21 +0200 (EET) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000206170320.00862560@laatikko.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: oh2lx@laatikko.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 17:03:20 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: LF Propagation thoughts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Some thoughts on 136 kHz Ionospheric propagation Sorry for this not being in phase with T/A ideas. I have found exploring LF propagation refreshing - after a 20-25 year sleepy period. In fact some of my superiors asked me to stop LF/MF research sometime during the last part of 1970's... Succeeded in keeping 24h LF/MF recordings going on until the end of 1999; only VHF/UHF continues. The biggest surprise has been the intensity of the ICM (Ionospheric Cross Modulation) audios on Burg 138.83 kHz carrier. Reaction can be partly explained by the lack of "normal" interferers. Sometimes I can follow Kaliningrad 1386 kHz program by listening it riding on Burg carrier. They are supposed to run >1000 kW to a Dir.ant. Signal strength variation on short paths There (still) is a lot of moderately fast signal strength variation on short LF paths compared to longer paths. Burg 138.83 kHz Fs varies much more than Mainflingen 128.93 kHz signal. The morning "dip" appears mainly on longer 128.93 kHz path. It is normally said in literature that the LF reflection height changes from about 72 km near noon to about 90 km at night. BUT: over distancies less than about 300 km, LF waves are reflected near 80-85 km near noon and about 90-100 km at night. So, for natural reasons there appears to be more fading on short paths compared to longer paths. At our latitudes, even in Southern Finland, there is a lot of ionospheric propagation on LF during daytime in winter. Eg today I heard SXV 135.8 weakly all day long. We have one report on a 92 km long path (Lahti). On the practicability of talking about "hops" Suggested experiment: Draw a circle with a radius of 63.70 cm. Then draw a slightly bigger circle with radius of 64.50 cm, using same center point. With a reflection height of some 80 to 90 km the space between the concentric circles is small..? Pictures are 99% drawn to a completely wrong scale. Might be better talk abt "bends" instead of "hops". Not all active hams are interested on this kind of digging into propagation details. For those who are, I'll be glad to calculate selected paths etc. 73 de Vaino, OH2LX PS As an IARU Region 1 Auroral studies coordinator I should spend more time with Aurora Borealis... On clear evenings I do watch the Northern sky... ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15898 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2000 16:32:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Feb 2000 16:32:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HUQM-00043q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 16:20:34 +0000 Received: from xyber.irisz.hu ([212.92.1.142] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HUQL-00043l-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 16:20:33 +0000 Received: from xyber.irisz.hu (IDENT:ivan@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xyber.irisz.hu (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA06341 for ; Sun, 6 Feb 2000 16:20:26 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <389D9F47.6C1335C1@irisz.hu> Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 16:20:23 +0000 From: "Ivan Artner" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: IMC X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: F is QRV now! References: <200002060015_MC2-97F6-9235@compuserve.com> <004501bf70ac$43a2ece0$0600a8c0@main> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave wrote: > > Great! > > Where are they all? > > > > >what this letter says is, that since December 31, 1999, France has the > >authorization to use 135.7-137.8 kHz with 1 Watt ERP. > > > > 73 Dave G3YXM. And where are we all (HAs) ? So here is lack of interest in LF...and I'm still working on my first LF rig...far from complete :( But I hope we will be out on the band soon (mid or late spring) 73 de Ivan, HA5TS From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1821 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2000 17:54:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Feb 2000 17:54:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HVmW-0004ZU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 17:47:32 +0000 Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HVmU-0004ZP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 17:47:31 +0000 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-123-29.bellatlantic.net [151.200.123.29]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA07570; Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:47:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <389DAE55.EDEB0413@bellatlantic.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 12:24:37 -0500 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Cc: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "lf" , "Tacos, AMRAD" Subject: re: LF: 7S6SAJ References: <200002060022_MC2-97F6-9251@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" wrote: > I worked 7S6SAJ yesterday afternoon. Currenty he is 40 dBmicroVolt/m here > in Slow-CW, which is the strongest ham-signal I have ever heard! 7S6SAJ is > "only" 45 dB weaker than DCF39 here, but he is much further away (700 > something km vs. 120 km)! So well worth to give it a try over there at the > other side of the big pond! Alas, Sandy WB5MMB and I could not hear 7S6SAJ, possibly because we did not get our (technical) act together until about 0530 Zulu on 06 February. We got _excellent_ reception of DCF39 between 0600 and 0700 Zulu on 138.830 KHz (Geri, I am sending you the images separately) Indeed these efforts are well worth pursuing on this side of the "big pond" When will 7S6SAJ transmit again ? 73 Andre' N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9827 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2000 18:09:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Feb 2000 18:09:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HVqp-0004aM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 17:51:59 +0000 Received: from front5.grolier.fr ([194.158.96.55]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HVqo-0004aH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 17:51:58 +0000 Received: from club-internet.fr (ppp-44-37-126.wmar.club-internet.fr [213.44.37.126]) by front5.grolier.fr (8.9.3/No_Relay+No_Spam_MGC990224) with ESMTP id SAA00509 for ; Sun, 6 Feb 2000 18:51:49 +0100 (MET) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <389DB499.80BF687E@club-internet.fr> Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 18:51:22 +0100 From: "M & S" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [fr] (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: fr,fr,es-ES MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: F is QRV now! References: <200002060015_MC2-97F6-9235@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi folks, Be careful with this one. Yes, indeed, there is an official text going around, but France is still NOT authorised to use the band right now. Remember, I had a long conversation with the guy at the ministry of telecommunications during January, and there's still a signature missing somewhere in the system. 136 kHz is still forbidden in France. Also, be aware of the "CFRR" signature (no further comment). However, I will check this out during the week... before you hear me on the air! 73, Mark, F6JSZ "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" a *crit : > > Hello LF-enthusiasts! > > For those of you, who are not that fluent in French: > > what this letter says is, that since December 31, 1999, France has the > authorization to use 135.7-137.8 kHz with 1 Watt ERP. > > Welcome to the Club! > > Best 73 > > Geri, DK8KW (W1KW)d From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28142 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2000 18:55:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Feb 2000 18:55:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HWjI-0004zR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 18:48:16 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HWjH-0004zM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 18:48:15 +0000 Received: from as21-s15-139-101.cwci.net ([195.44.139.101] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HWjB-0000gD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 18:48:10 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <389DC1B3.5D7EA841@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 18:47:15 +0000 From: "g3kev" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: OM/G Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: According to G3YXM web page the qso OM2TW and G3KEV was a first between these two countries. To get things into perspective, its a question of being in the right place at the right time. Most stations active on 136 khz have the capability of working each other around europe, and if a new one shows up it depends who is on the band at the time to declare a FIRST. Everybody catches up eventually maybe a few hours later or next day etc. What does suprise me is the assymetrical EAR syndrome. Both OE5ODL and OM2TW were calling cq for ages on and off and NO ONE was replying, especially since Rich announced via the reflector that he would be active. Is it assymetrical EAR or are some receiving systems just so bad that the signals are not audible,or maybe living in a hostile qrn environment where the signals are drowned in noise most of the time. Any of the above are not a good sign for LF operating. I use the same antenna system for TX/RX and cannot see any disadvantages with verticals. Today there was a long rag chew qso on 136.5 ropex frequency between two UK stations on top of two German stations, then a PA0 started up calling CQ then LX1PD started up calling cq EI. I am sure no one would do this deliberately, so what is the problem with RECEIVING. Put a proper antenna up for LF and avoid joysticks and the pocket ferrite varities then check for ASSYMETRICAL EAR SYNDROME. Good luck with the dx de G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2433 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2000 20:57:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Feb 2000 20:57:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HYcC-0005rV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 20:49:04 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from smtper.inrete.it ([212.110.32.184] helo=mailer.inrete.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HYcA-0005rQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 20:49:02 +0000 Received: from cel266 ([151.25.252.129]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA27365 for ; Sun, 6 Feb 2000 21:48:50 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 21:48:50 +0100 Message-ID: <4.1.20000206204040.009d7ea0@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1 Data: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 21:05:00 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: LF: Re: LF Propagation thoughts (and antenna, too) In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.20000206170320.00862560@laatikko.saunalahti.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In 21.36 06/02/00 , Vaino OH2LX wrote: >Some thoughts on 136 kHz Ionospheric propagation > >Sorry for this not being in phase with T/A ideas. > ................. > >On the practicability of talking about "hops" > >Suggested experiment: Draw a circle with a radius >of 63.70 cm. Then draw a slightly bigger circle >with radius of 64.50 cm, using same center point. >With a reflection height of some 80 to 90 km the >space between the concentric circles is small..? >Pictures are 99% drawn to a completely wrong scale. >Might be better talk abt "bends" instead of "hops". > >Not all active hams are interested on this kind >of digging into propagation details. For those who >are, I'll be glad to calculate selected paths etc. > Dear Vaino, please, continue your 'digging'. If our main objective in this fantastic hobby is self-instruction, we must have somebody teaching and helping us to remain with feet on Earth, even looking at the ionosphere ... ;-) May be true that not all active hams are interested; but I firmly believe that the main scope of this reflector is to put hams with similar interests in touch, and many of us must be concerned about wave propagation, to make better QSO or simply to try to understand. Your suggested experiment is very clear. In effect we are used to figure the ionospheric layers as an high ceiling; compared with the earth radius it is very low. I have a question for antenna modelling gurus (G3LDO?) What is the vertical radiation pattern of our shortened verticals? Is it dependent of ground resistance and nearby objects? may we model it? Marco Bruno - IK1ODO spin@inrete.it SPIN Electronics - www.spin-it.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22232 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2000 23:38:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Feb 2000 23:38:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HbAK-0006u0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 23:32:28 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HbAJ-0006tv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Feb 2000 23:32:27 +0000 Received: from [213.1.183.187] (helo=default) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12HbA5-0001RA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 6 Feb 2000 23:32:14 +0000 Message-ID: <000401bf70f9$c28f44c0$bbb701d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Cluster spots from GB7DXM for 5/6Feb Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 23:26:13 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, a bonanza of spots this week.....thanks all. I did not wait to see what came in from Wolf as there were so many. I will post extras separately.....I am sure there is some interest in here for most stations. A very strong signals from Christer and friends at Karlsburg....'probably' the strongest amateur station ever heard here, although G3YXM on Sun morning on QRSS was only about 3dB stronger!! ( 7S6SAJ had the loop in the worst direction for him as its plane was pointing NW/SE so towards Dave) I saw some very weak QRS signals from Dave G0MRF who was trying awfully hard all night. You hit full power at the beginning of the transmission at 0130z Dave and then faded right down to weaker than DF6NM here. Marcus was readable again 'O' at 0156z and 0200z with some rather fast QRS....so it wasn't a fluke Marcus that top loading coil is working well. Dave had increased in strength by 0622z but was still about 10dB weaker than ON4ZK here. A good 'O' signal was also seen from DJ5BV at 0051z. Cluster spots follow. 137.7 I5TGC 6-Feb-2000 2018Z SLOW CW 136.8 I5TGC 6-Feb-2000 1736Z 569 137.2 IK5ZPV 6-Feb-2000 1654Z 569 in QSO OE5ODL 449 137.3 OE5ODL 6-Feb-2000 1654Z 549 qso ik5zpv 136.9 DJ9IE 6-Feb-2000 1640Z in QSO G stn 137.2 IK5ZPV 6-Feb-2000 1610Z cq cq 449 137.7 G3XDV 6-Feb-2000 1609Z IO91Vt 136.5 IK5ZPV 6-Feb-2000 1539Z cq cq 136.7 DJ9IE 6-Feb-2000 1434Z cq cq 419 in JN69fv 136.6 LX1PD 6-Feb-2000 1425Z 539 in JN69fv (on 80m Loop) 137.7 DF6NM 6-Feb-2000 1358Z "O" 136.7 I5MXX 6-Feb-2000 1250Z cq same qrg.. 136.7 G3KEV 6-Feb-2000 1248Z 559 cq 136.6 G4GVC 6-Feb-2000 1113Z with dk7ko 549/569 137.7 G3XDV 6-Feb-2000 1046Z cq 137.7 DF8ZR 6-Feb-2000 1042Z cq "O" 136.5 LX1PD 6-Feb-2000 1022Z 559 cq ei 136.6 OE5ODL 6-Feb-2000 0954Z 569 cq 136.6 OE5ODL 6-Feb-2000 0954Z 569 cq 137.0 G4GVC 6-Feb-2000 0933Z 136.5 OM2TW 6-Feb-2000 0934Z 329 137.5 G3YXM 6-Feb-2000 0929Z +g4gvc cq, 519>jo31hl 137.3 G3KEV 6-Feb-2000 0926Z cq 439 136.9 DJ2EY 6-Feb-2000 0918Z cq 569 137.0 OM2TW 6-Feb-2000 0900Z cq cq 569 136.8 DJ9IE 6-Feb-2000 0818Z cq 579 136.7 IK5ZPV 6-Feb-2000 0817Z cq 599 137.2 S57A 6-Feb-2000 0803Z 579 sigs go up- ale' Boris! 136.2 HB2ASB 6-Feb-2000 0758Z cqcq 579 137.1 S57A 6-Feb-2000 0745Z cq 136.4 OM2TW 6-Feb-2000 0715Z just had a QSO ... 136.4 MM0ALM 5-Feb-2000 2249Z 136.5 DJ2EY 5-Feb-2000 2249Z 559 cq 136.9 7S6SAJ 5-Feb-2000 2240Z QSX 3577 136.6 I5MXX 5-Feb-2000 2234Z 136.6 OM2TW 5-Feb-2000 2155Z 589 136.8 7S6SAJ 5-Feb-2000 2153Z 599 136.3 OM2TW 5-Feb-2000 2040Z 329 136.3 DK9DX 5-Feb-2000 2033Z 559 136.4 OM2TW 5-Feb-2000 2020Z clg for 7s6saj 136.2 7S6SAJ 5-Feb-2000 2007Z 599+ 137.1 7S6SAJ 5-Feb-2000 1906Z 559 x band QSX 3577KHz 137.1 7S6SAJ 5-Feb-2000 1846Z 599 plus 20 136.5 IK5ZPV 5-Feb-2000 1839Z ...429 qso with 7S6SAJ 136.7 7S6SAJ 5-Feb-2000 1813Z my 1st ever VLF DX hrd ! 136.8 G3KEV 5-Feb-2000 1349Z 339 qso with df3oe 136.9 DF3OE 5-Feb-2000 1345Z 539 136.7 G3YXM 5-Feb-2000 1246Z 329 cq 136.6 DJ9IE 5-Feb-2000 1120Z 559 cq 136.6 MM0ALM 5-Feb-2000 1049Z 579 audible by ears 136.8 G4GVC 5-Feb-2000 1026Z 439 cq 137.2 PA0SE 5-Feb-2000 1024Z 449 136.5 OE5ODL 5-Feb-2000 0947Z 579 cq 136.5 HB2ASB 5-Feb-2000 0746Z 569 cq 136.7 IK5ZPV 3-Feb-2000 2039Z 136.5 OE5ODL 3-Feb-2000 1658Z cq cq 136.5 DJ9IE 3-Feb-2000 1635Z 539 cq 136.8 DJ9IE 2-Feb-2000 1538Z cq 599 136.5 IK5ZPV 1-Feb-2000 2047Z cqcq 599 136.2 HB2ASB 1-Feb-2000 2037Z 579 136.9 G3AQC 1-Feb-2000 1207Z IO90 136.3 OE5ODL 31-Jan-2000 1659Z cq 559 G3NYK de GB7DXM 6-Feb 2228Z > Thanks all for another memorable weekend....were they heard in the States though?? 73 de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24533 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2000 08:19:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Feb 2000 08:19:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HjE6-0001qH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 08:08:54 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from ns1.swh.sk ([192.108.125.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HjE3-0001qC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 08:08:52 +0000 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes [195.41.64.129]) by ns1.swh.sk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA02154 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:08:33 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [195.41.64.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA01001 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:08:30 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:08:27 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <92CA25F78271D111969400A024297F5B02D6CFCD@btss.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: 5/6.2.2000 report Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:08:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LF-ers... This weekend I worked 5 new stations on 136. 5.2.2000 2040Z 7S6SAJ (first SM/OM) 2119Z G3KEV (first G/OM) - 1425km 2130Z DJ2EY (first DL/OM) 2157Z OE5ODL (first OE/OM) 6.2.2000 0637Z DJ2EY 0715Z DK8KW 0736Z DK8KW (a bit stronger) 0954Z OE5ODL (much stronger) Now running nearly 150 Watts. Heard a lot of stations, but without QSO. IK5ZPV, DJ9IE, G4GVC, OZ5N, DF6NM, DL2HWA, HB2ASB, MM0ALM, G3LDO and something ending ....EKJ. 73 and see you later on LF. Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25908 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2000 08:58:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Feb 2000 08:58:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Hjsm-000284-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 08:50:56 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Hjsl-00027z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 08:50:55 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA64676 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:50:48 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000207104843.2d371ae2@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 10:48:43 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: LF Propagation thoughts (and antenna, too) In-reply-to: <4.1.20000206204040.009d7ea0@mailer.inrete.it> References: <3.0.6.32.20000206170320.00862560@laatikko.saunalahti.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 21:48 6/02/00 +0100, IK1ODO wrote: >I have a question for antenna modelling gurus (G3LDO?) >What is the vertical radiation pattern of our shortened >verticals? Is it dependent of ground resistance and nearby >objects? may we model it? >From what I found in old handbooks (60's and before, when LF was more 'fashionable' for the commercials) the radiation pattern of a short vertical is independent of its length (height). Any any antenna less than 10% of the wavelength is consired 'short' (so even the 7S6SAJ guys were using an electrical short antenna). A short vertical above a perfect ground has a gain of 4.8dBi, again independent of the antennalength. Regarding the groundresistance the rules was : the lesser the better. No only for the sake of antenna effeciency but also to avoid radiation at higher angles. This 'high angle radiation' was for the commercials, who were only interested in surface wave propagation (stable 24h/day, 365 days/year) not only pure waste but also a source of possible interference (via ionospheric wave). But if we want to make 'DX-QSOs' with 1 Watt ERP we defenitely need ionospheric wave propagation, so producing some higher angle radiation might be usefull. So far I have not found too much information about ionospheric propagation on LF in literature (except for how to avoid it). It would be interesting to find out what radiation angle is optimal, if the angle is too low then the signal will bend around the earth (surface wave) and won't 'escape' into the ionosphere, if the angle is too high then the 'hops' will be short. Maybe the interesting contributions of OH2LX can help us with that (tnx Vaino). One remark regarding antenna length : Despite the fact that radiation pattern and antenna gain are independent of the lenght a longer antenna has still a big advantage : a higher radiation resistance. Doubling the length of a short vertical antenna will quadruple the radiation resistance, this is a 6dB 'gain' due to a better ratio of radiation resistance versus loss resistance (assuming that the losses are much higher that the radiation resistance). But you can get exactly the same effect by quadrupling the TX-power, so in theory you can reach the 1 Watt ERP limit with any antenna if you use adequate power. And, despite what some try to make us to believe, you cannot hear the difference between 1 Watt ERP from a big antenna with low power or a small antenna with high power. Of course with a big antenna and high power the 1 Watt ERP limit can be exceeded significantly, but that is against the legal limitations and I am sure a real ham will not do that. As far as I know the only station that got a special permit to run higher ERP is 7S6SAJ. Congrats to Chister and Co. for the '1kW experiment', they got a lot interest from all over Europe. Let's hope that this will result in some more countries becoming active on 136kHz. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14267 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2000 09:37:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Feb 2000 09:37:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HkVq-0002Nm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 09:31:18 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HkVp-0002Nh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 09:31:17 +0000 Received: from as32-s15-148-221.cwci.net ([195.44.148.221] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HkVi-0001on-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 09:31:11 +0000 Message-ID: <389DC57E.CE8A147E@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 19:03:26 +0000 From: "g3kev" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: F is QRV now! References: <200002060015_MC2-97F6-9235@compuserve.com> <389DB499.80BF687E@club-internet.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: M & S wrote: > Hi folks, > > Be careful with this one. Yes, indeed, there is an official text going > around, but France is still NOT authorised to use the band right now. > > Remember, I had a long conversation with the guy at the ministry of > telecommunications during January, and there's still a signature missing > somewhere in the system. 136 kHz is still forbidden in France. > > Also, be aware of the "CFRR" signature (no further comment). > > However, I will check this out during the week... before you hear me on > the air! > > 73, Mark, F6JSZ Strange everybody else in EU has seen the document. Did say the French would be the last to get the news!!!!!! Time for Tractors and Trucks. It works in every other situation !!!!!! And go for 1kw ERP. > > > "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" a *crit : > > > > Hello LF-enthusiasts! > > > > For those of you, who are not that fluent in French: > > > > what this letter says is, that since December 31, 1999, France has the > > authorization to use 135.7-137.8 kHz with 1 Watt ERP. > > > > Welcome to the Club! > > > > Best 73 > > > > Geri, DK8KW (W1KW)d From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11510 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2000 10:07:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Feb 2000 10:07:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Hky2-0002bg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 10:00:26 +0000 Received: from front7.grolier.fr ([194.158.96.57]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Hky0-0002bb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 10:00:25 +0000 Received: from club-internet.fr (ppp-44-38-181.wmar.club-internet.fr [213.44.38.181]) by front7.grolier.fr (8.9.3/No_Relay+No_Spam_MGC990224) with ESMTP id LAA23692 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:12 +0100 (MET) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <389E979A.D355C6FB@club-internet.fr> Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 11:00:03 +0100 From: "M & S" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [fr] (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: fr,fr,es-ES MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: F is not QRV now! References: <200002060015_MC2-97F6-9235@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi gang, I confirm the information related in my latest message regarding the use of the 136 kHz band by French amateurs: the national table of frequencies has been modified, but not the AMATEUR table of frequencies. However, the ministry of telecommunications told me this morning, by phone, that it's just a question of months, or maybe weeks. Now the bad news: At the time being, there is no official amateur service in France. The latest regulations have been cancelled by the council of state. From now on and until the new regulations are published, there are no examination sessions and licence renewals for 2000 have been postponed. Thanks to the CFRR, a confederation opposing our national IARU society (the REF-Union), the actual regulations in place since May 1997, have been cancelled and must be revised. The french authority has said this morning: "French hams are now considered as CB enthusiasts and anyone can use the ham bands in France without a licence to do what they want". Hopefully, the situation will get back to normal in a couple of weeks. Until then, beware of what you may hear on the air... 73, Mark, F6JSZ Editor, French CQ "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" a *crit : > > Hello LF-enthusiasts! > > For those of you, who are not that fluent in French: > > what this letter says is, that since December 31, 1999, France has the > authorization to use 135.7-137.8 kHz with 1 Watt ERP. > > Welcome to the Club! > > Best 73 > > Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20258 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2000 10:21:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Feb 2000 10:21:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HlCk-0002jC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 10:15:38 +0000 Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HlCj-0002j7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 10:15:37 +0000 Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.53) with SMTP id 03328796 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:15:29 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <389FC33C.4831073F@phonakcom.ch> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 23:18:20 -0800 From: "Toni Baertschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: OM/G References: <389DC1B3.5D7EA841@netscapeonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >>From HB2ASB, JN36pt > > What does suprise me is the assymetrical EAR syndrome. Both OE5ODL and > OM2TW were calling cq for ages on and off and NO ONE was replying, regarding my situation, it's probably the very difficult path across the alps in combination with the difference in power (both stations using 9dB less than I do) . I had a QSO with OE5ODL, but the signal was at the limit and the signal from OM2TW was not to copy. > I use the same antenna system for TX/RX and cannot see any disadvantages > with verticals. Also my experience. I've tried different loop antennas and I come always back to my TX-antenna. In my case it is still the best RX-antenna. > > Today there was a long rag chew qso on 136.5 ropex frequency between two > UK stations on top of two German stations, then a PA0 started up calling > CQ then LX1PD started up calling cq EI. I've made the same observations and I think it's the difference in ERP plus the individual noise situation. > Put a proper antenna up for LF and avoid joysticks and the pocket > ferrite varities then check for ASSYMETRICAL EAR SYNDROME. No problem for the ferrites - I've none of them in my pocket. But to avoid the Joystick it's much harder: sometimes I like to shoot down alien spaceships. 73 de Toni PS. Hard to believe, but with the huge signal from 7S6SAJ we now have the final prove, that tall antennas are better than small ones. Anyway I will check again for the asymmetrical ear syndrom. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1718 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2000 10:29:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Feb 2000 10:29:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HlKS-0002p3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 10:23:36 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HlKP-0002oy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 10:23:33 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA21375 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:23:22 GMT X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <2000020710145268199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:14:52 GMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re: LF Propagation and modelling Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit IK1ODO wrote: > >What is the vertical radiation pattern of our shortened > >verticals? Is it dependent of ground resistance and nearby > >objects? may we model it? ON7YD wrote > From what I found in old handbooks (60's and before, when LF was more > 'fashionable' for the commercials) the radiation pattern of a short > vertical is independent of its length (height). This seem to be true. According to EZNEC the polar diagram of an electrically short antenna is the same which ever way you configure it. So an inverted L or V or a T antenna all have the same polar diagram - a sort of half doughnut. As the height of a vertical is increased to a quarter wavelength the polar diagram remains the same although the radiation resistance decreases, which means that the 1W erp can be achieved with less power. > But if we want to make 'DX-QSOs' with 1 Watt ERP we definitely need > ionospheric wave propagation, so producing some higher angle radiation > might be useful. True. If the near quarter wave has a large horizontal component (as the OH1TN and MM0ALM antennas) then the polar diagram changes so that some of the radiation angle is high. We have noticed interesting propagation effects with both these stations and they both have good 'ears'. As regards modelling the effect of ground EZNEC is quite useful in this regard. In fact if you select 'High-Accuracy Ground' calculations it produces what is known as a Sommerfield-Norton interpolation table of ground characteristics based on the ground complex permittivity. This is described on page 6.10 of the 'LF Experimenter's Source Book'. In short this allows modelling of the ground effect of antennas for 136kHz provided any horizontal component of the element is over 10m high. In general, the ground 'quality' has little effect on the shape of the polar diagram although it has a marked effect on antenna efficency.. I have not seen a method of modelling electromagnetic obstacles such as buildings and trees. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11994 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2000 11:01:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Feb 2000 11:01:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Hlnj-00032Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 10:53:51 +0000 Received: from front2.grolier.fr ([194.158.96.52]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Hlni-00032U-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 10:53:50 +0000 Received: from club-internet.fr (ppp-44-41-154.wmar.club-internet.fr [213.44.41.154]) by front2.grolier.fr (8.9.3/No_Relay+No_Spam_MGC990224) with ESMTP id LAA02764 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:53:42 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <389EA420.4A662166@club-internet.fr> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 11:53:33 +0100 From: "M & S" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [fr] (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: fr,fr,es-ES MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: F is QRV now! References: <200002060015_MC2-97F6-9235@compuserve.com> <389DB499.80BF687E@club-internet.fr> <389DC57E.CE8A147E@netscapeonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by front2.grolier.fr id LAA02764 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: g3kev a *crit : > Strange everybody else in EU has seen the document. > Did say the French would be the last to get the news!!!!!! Time for Tractors > and Trucks. It works in every other situation !!!!!! And go for 1kw ERP. Mal, Yes, the 'Tableau National des Fréquences' has been modified, but it HASN'T been approved. The guy at at the ministry was firm: "the band is still not open in France". However, the right person should sign the document during the week, so I will be QRV this weekend (at least I hope). CU on the air! 73, Mark, F6JSZ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9800 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2000 11:57:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Feb 2000 11:57:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HmgU-0003OF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 11:50:26 +0000 Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HmgT-0003O8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 11:50:25 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12Hmdf-00029E-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 11:47:31 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <18317.200002071154@gemini> From: "James Moritz" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:55:13 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: 73kHz - 7S6SAJ - Rugby X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Friday evening, on 73kHz - Called CQ with normal CW and QRSS between 2000 and 2300 on Friday - couldn't definitely identify any replies, but there was a steady trace on the Spectrogram screen for a couple of hours, which I would guess was G2AJV in beacon mode. Saturday afternoon and evening - heard many DX signals, 7S6SAJ very strong of course, 599+, many D's, I5MXX, OH3LYG, and for the first time, OM2TW (329 - 439). Called several, but no luck. Congratulations to Christer and Johan on their excellent signal, and the amount of activity it generated. Sunday morning - was delighted to work 7S6SAJ for my first QRSS contact, around 0030. We exchanged 'O' reports. Also saw signals from G0MRF and I think DJ5BH. Later on, about 0330, saw 7S6SAJ and G3XDV in QSO. I don't have facilities for absolute signal strength measurements, but I compared the two signals with an audio mV meter (and no AGC). 'SAJ was 1.5dB down on 'XDV - Mike is only about 11km away, though! Re: Rugby 73.4kHz TX - I would just reiterate that I measured the mains hum on the Rugby TX when it was transmitting an unmodulated, CW carrier for several minutes during testing on Tuesday afternoon, so this would be something extra to contribute to the noise sidebands, in addition to any actual modulation. Interesting about the two data signals. I'm sure it would be difficult to make a TX operating in this mode that didn't generate IM products sufficient to trouble us amateurs, especially if it is just a refit of an existing transmitter. Hope to hear 7S6SAJ again soon - at the moment, it certainly is the best chance of a transatlantic 136kHz QSO. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11416 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2000 12:33:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Feb 2000 12:33:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HnDx-0003hA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 12:25:01 +0000 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HnDw-0003h5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 12:25:00 +0000 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12HnEI-0002cR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 12:25:23 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 12:20:02 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 12:20:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Weekend report 5/6 Feb X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Saturday 5 February Located fault on LF station - actually two faults which was why it wasn't easy to find in the dark! The variometer coil had a disconnection in the middle where it was tapped, and the earth connection was faulty. Heard SM6PXJ (579); G8PX (569); DF3OE (439); DJ9IE (569); G3XTZ (5 9+20 9); G3GRO (5 9+10 9); 7S6SAJ (599 with 1kW from a commercial site in Sweden); G3LDO (599); M0BMU (5 9+20 9). Worked a new one for me: G3CCH (gave 339, got 569) but lost at the end because of QRM from Scandinavia! Sunday 6 February Got up in the middle of the night, and at 0300 heard a very strong QRSs station at S9+10dB. Switched on the computer and found it was 7S6SAJ working DK1IS ('M' with lots of QSB). Called 7S6SAJ afterwards and exchanged 'O' reports. Up again at a more civilised hour and heard: G8RW (589); G3OLB (589); G4GVC (599); LX1PD (579); G3BDQ (599); G6NB (589); G3KAU (599). Saw QRSs on Spectrogram screen from DJ5BV ('O'). Worked on QRSs a new one for me: DF6NM ('O'/'O') at 883km. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12169 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2000 13:16:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Feb 2000 13:16:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Hnri-00040a-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 13:06:06 +0000 Received: from ds-img-4.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.137] helo=spdmgaad.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Hnrg-00040T-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 13:06:04 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id IAA29631 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 08:05:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 08:05:33 -0500 From: "Holger 'Geri', DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: F is QRV now! To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200002070805_MC2-9818-7EDA@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF-Group, sorry for confusing people with that message that I saw on the amrad-lf reflector. Hope anyhow that the right guy (whoever that may be ... Monsieur Le President?) will sign soon! Looking out for a qso with F next weekend! Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW), currently in Abu Dhabi/U.A.E (A6) without any LF equipment ... but will be back for the next weekend! From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19082 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2000 18:29:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Feb 2000 18:29:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Hsi8-000653-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 18:16:32 +0000 Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.10]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Hsi4-00064y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 18:16:28 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.fb.1e5c35d (4331) for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 13:15:42 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 13:15:42 EST Subject: Re: LF: Re: LF Propagation thoughts (and antenna, too) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 228 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik writes: > Regarding the groundresistance the rules was : the lesser the better. No > only for the sake of antenna effeciency but also to avoid radiation at > higher angles. This 'high angle radiation' was for the commercials, who > were only interested in surface wave propagation (stable 24h/day, 365 > days/year) not only pure waste but also a source of possible interference > (via ionospheric wave). > > But if we want to make 'DX-QSOs' with 1 Watt ERP we defenitely need > ionospheric wave propagation, so producing some higher angle radiation > might be usefull. Yes and no. Commercial and military LF stations do not depend on surface wave alone, especially not at transatlantic distances. One cannot achieve globe-spanning distances with surface waves above roughly 100 kHz; and even some ways down below 50 or 60 kHz, conventional ionospheric refraction still plays a significant role. It is not until one gets down to VLF that the propagation model changes dramatically. The commercial guys do suppress high angle radiation to whatever extent possible, but that's not because they are only interested in groundwave. High angle radiation causes problems with the more desirable low angle skywave at intermediate distances, and wastes power that would be more beneficial for long-distance coverage if it could be radiated at the lower angles. If one were able to radiate most of one's power at, say, less than 5 degrees above the horizon, the signal would stand a far better chance of making it across the ocean than if the bulk of the power were 20 or 30 degrees above. That's where the region of the ionosphere is that we want to excite. (I keep saying "if," though, because in practice, any short vertical already has plenty of high angle radiation well above 30 degrees, whether we want it or not.) Further increasing high angle radiation with horizontal runs of wire may have interesting propagation effects, as described in another post, but this is over medium distances. We must take into account how much "D" we are really talking about when we speak of transatlantic DX. I'm not speaking of this from a theoretical standpoint so far as amateur efforts are concerned, either. Nor do I mean, in what follows, to detract *in any way* from the excellent work being done by the AMRAD group. They have opportunities to experiment with power levels and antenna lengths that we 1 watt / 15 m antenna LowFERs can only dream of for now, and I have no doubt that much valuable information will result. I merely point out that the recent successful copy of the AMRAD beacon in Ontario, despite the long horizontal antenna and the power levels involved, does not quite yet match some of the DX achieved by stations working within the 1 w / 15 m limits. Utilizing much patience and only moderately slow digital techniques, one-way copy has been achieved from California to Minnesota, Georgia to Minnesota, Texas to Quebec, and more. (I nearly hesitate to mention the old CW LowFER record from California to Hawaii, as it required a once-in-a-lifetime combination of good propagation, ideally situated stations, and remarkably low noise levels. Yet, there it was.) Apart from the latter example, the stations were sending Coherent CW or BPSK. All, without exception, employed vertical antennas, top loaded to the maximum extent allow by regulations, working over the best ground systems that their operators were able to achieve! At no time would I suggest that anyone is wasting their time pursuing new ideas. However, I don't think it would be productive to arbitrarily set aside the commercial operators' examples as being irrelevant, either. Especially, in the face of such strong experimental evidence that what's sauce for the commercial goose may also be sauce for the amateur gander. 73, John KD4IDY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14159 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2000 20:40:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Feb 2000 20:40:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HupR-0006wu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:32:13 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HupQ-0006wp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:32:12 +0000 Received: from [195.44.223.18] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12HupH-0002jf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:32:03 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <389F2985.95C58B74@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:22:30 +0000 From: "g3kev" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: rik-short vert Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Is Rik saying that a 1 metre vertical suitably loaded and resonant and with the appropriate amount of rf supplied to it to emit 1w erp is the same as a 50 metre vertical again suitably loaded and resonant and with the appropriate amount of rf to emit 1 w erp THE SAME THING. It is NOT the same as far as propogating a signal is concerned beyond the near field. When it is so easy to generate Killowatts from power mosfets these days why bother about antennas just pump megawatts into a broom stick and according to Rik you will just do as well as the guy with the same erp but a 40 metre tower. Listening on the band the guys with the big antennas are doing better without exceeding 1w erp That goes for receive as well, the big antenna alwas does better. If you get overload or cross modulation DO NOT BLAME THE ANTENNA it the RX that is the problem. Listening on the band it is obvious who has the assymetrical ear problem, their answer could be LMCW. 73 G3KEV G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12977 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2000 21:34:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Feb 2000 21:34:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Hvfy-0007Ku-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:26:30 +0000 Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Hvfx-0007Kp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:26:29 +0000 Received: from rgcomms.demon.co.uk ([193.237.77.63] helo=G) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12Hvfr-000FNZ-0W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 21:26:23 +0000 From: "Graham Phillips" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group" Subject: LF: G3XTZ QRT (again ! ) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 21:24:19 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all LF,ers I am sad to report that my TX has exploded again. However, I was very pleased to make the QSO with Chris, 7S6SAJ before it happened. Strangely, I was running on the minimum power setting ( about 100 watts ) and just started a QSO with Bill, G6NB at 23.16 on Saturday. If anyone has a QSO with Bill, maybe they could let him know of my TX failure, in case he thinks that I was struck by lightning in the middle of the QSO ! I hope to return ! 73 de Graham B. Phillips. G3XTZ. g3xtz@rgcomms.demon.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22706 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2000 00:58:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Feb 2000 00:58:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Hyp5-00008U-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Feb 2000 00:48:07 +0000 Received: from neodymium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.83]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Hyp4-00008P-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Feb 2000 00:48:06 +0000 Received: from [213.1.141.96] (helo=default) by neodymium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12Hyp2-0001yE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 00:48:04 +0000 Message-ID: <002701bf71cd$8248b2a0$608d01d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Extra Cluster spots from DB0MDX...tnx Wolf Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 00:41:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all these cluster spots not on my list, submitted to me by Wolf extracted from DB0MDX Here is what 'they' hear, sorry about the wrap I don't seem to be able to 'unfold it'. As with my entries the call in 'chevrons' is the posting call. 136.7 DJ9IE 6-Feb-2000 1432Z 599 fb sig in jn35ub 136.6 LX1PD 6-Feb-2000 1425Z 539 in JN69fv (on 80m Loop) 136.2 HB2ASB 6-Feb-2000 0911Z cq 136.9 DJ2EY 6-Feb-2000 0908Z 529 136.4 OM2TW 6-Feb-2000 0836Z 599 calling DJ9IE(449) 137.0 OM2TW 6-Feb-2000 0754Z calling DJ9IE 137.1 S57A 6-Feb-2000 0745Z cq 137.0 G3KEV 5-Feb-2000 2056Z 549 cq 136.3 SM4DHN 5-Feb-2000 2018Z 439 136.6 IK5ZPV 5-Feb-2000 2016Z 569 136.9 OM2TW 5-Feb-2000 1959Z 599 ...CQ,CQ 136.7 I5MXX 5-Feb-2000 1956Z 579...CQ,CQ 137.1 OM2TW 5-Feb-2000 1955Z clg cq 136.3 OM2TW 5-Feb-2000 1938Z 579 cq 136.3 OM2TW 5-Feb-2000 1930Z 569 CQ 136.5 BEACON 5-Feb-2000 1928Z ?? text in Italian language 136.4 OM2TW 5-Feb-2000 1925Z 559 clg dj9ie 136.7 HB2ASB 5-Feb-2000 1923Z 136.4 DJ9IE 5-Feb-2000 1919Z 559 wkg om2tw 136.4 DJ9IE 5-Feb-2000 1917Z cq qsx 3572.0 but don't cpi 137.0 OM2TW 5-Feb-2000 1912Z 136.8 OM2TW 5-Feb-2000 1857Z 589 137.1 7S6SAJ 5-Feb-2000 1853Z qsx 3577 still there!!! 137.4 7S6SAJ 5-Feb-2000 1847Z heard 539 in JN85OO <9a1ccy-3> 137.2 7S6SAJ 5-Feb-2000 1845Z 599 on 200m beverage! 136.7 7S6SAJ 5-Feb-2000 1821Z sri hr nil wid 80m dipole 136.6 IK5ZPV 5-Feb-2000 1819Z 449 - in QSO with 7S6SAJ 137.0 7S6SAJ 5-Feb-2000 1819Z chris via sm6pxj hr 539 136.7 OM2TW 5-Feb-2000 1812Z 549 - in QSO with 7S6SAJ 136.7 7S6SAJ 5-Feb-2000 1808Z now 579 - OM2TW call him 136.5 7S6SAJ 5-Feb-2000 1803Z 559 on 80 m dipol 136.7 7S6SAJ 5-Feb-2000 1731Z 599+++ like a local!! 137.0 OZ1KMR 5-Feb-2000 1719Z 137.1 G3KAU 5-Feb-2000 1701Z 136.7 DF3OE 5-Feb-2000 1700Z 137.2 7S6SAJ 5-Feb-2000 1655Z 599 (but no qso, not hrd) 136.8 DK8KW 5-Feb-2000 1604Z calling g3ldo 539 137.0 7S6SAJ 5-Feb-2000 1553Z 136.7 IK5ZPV 5-Feb-2000 1454Z 599.. 7s6saj qrt?? 136.7 7S6SAJ 5-Feb-2000 1436Z big sig 136.9 DF3OE 5-Feb-2000 1345Z 539 137.0 DJ5AO 5-Feb-2000 1216Z 137.2 S57A 5-Feb-2000 1206Z fb sigs!! 137.0 DJ0IE 5-Feb-2000 1150Z 570 in jn35ub (he also likes dl1san de db0mdx 6-Feb-2000 1915Z clx > 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7923 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2000 10:05:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Feb 2000 10:05:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12I7OF-0003cF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Feb 2000 09:56:59 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12I7OB-0003cA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Feb 2000 09:56:56 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA45880 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:56:49 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000208115441.2237f20c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 11:54:41 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: rik-short vert In-reply-to: <389F2985.95C58B74@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 20:22 7/02/00 +0000, G3KEV wrote: >Is Rik saying that a 1 metre vertical suitably loaded and resonant and >with the appropriate amount of rf supplied to it to emit 1w erp is the >same as a 50 metre vertical again suitably loaded and resonant and with >the appropriate amount of rf to emit 1 w erp THE SAME THING. >It is NOT the same as far as propogating a signal is concerned beyond >the near field. >When it is so easy to generate Killowatts from power mosfets these days >why bother about antennas just pump megawatts into a broom stick and >according to Rik you will just do as well as the guy with the same erp >but a 40 metre tower. > ... >73 G3KEV When you generate 1 Watt ERP (effective RADIATED power) your signal will have a certain fieldstrength at a certain distance. The only thing that will affect the fieldstrength (besides the ERP) is the radiation pattern of the antenna. As far as I know, from books and antenna simulation software, the length of a vertical antenna does NOT affect the radiation pattern. So (assuming a lossless loading coil) pumping 100W into a 40 meter vertical will generate the same ERP as pumping 400W into a 20 meter vertical, pumping 1.6kW into a 10 meter vertical and ... (in theory) pumping 160kW into a 1 meter vertical. But of course there are practical limitations, the shorter your antenna is the more power you need and the larger the loadingcoil has to be. For very short verticals (as the 1 meter) this will lead to inpractical values for the loading coil and excessive voltage at the antenna. An example to show what I mean : Assume at a certain location you have a 'groundloss' of 30 Ohms (a realistic value if you have the space and wire to put an extensive radialnetwork in the ground). 1. A 40 meter vertical (without toploading - to keep it simple) will have a radiation resistance of 0.131 Ohms and a capacitance of 240pF. That means that you will need an antennacurrent of 1.6A to generate 1 Watt EIRP (taking into account that a short vertical has a gain of 4.8dBi). Further you will need a loadingcoil of 5.64mH to bring the antenna to resonance. Assuming a Q of 300 the loss in the coil will be 16 Ohms, so the total loss-resistance will be 46 Ohm. To get the antennacurrent of 1.6A you need a RF power of 120 Watts and the antennavoltage (built up over the coil) will be 7.75kV. All of the above are very practical values and it will be easy to the the wanted 1 Watt EIRP (and even much more). 2. For a 20 meter vertical the radiation resistance will be 0.033 Ohms and the antennacapacitance 120pF. You will need 3.2A to get 1 Watt EIRP and the loadingcoil has to be 11.3mH. At the Q of 300 the coil-loss will be 32Ohms, resulting in a total loss of 62 Ohms. One will need an RF power of 635 Watts and the antennavoltage will be 31kV. The antennavoltage is rather high, so you will need proper isolation but apart from that 1 Watt EIRP is still realistic. 3. For a 10 meter vertical the radiation resistance will be 0.008 Ohms and the antennacapacitance 60pF. You will need 6.4A to get 1 Watt EIRP and the loadingcoil has to be 22.6mH. At the Q of 300 the coil-loss will be 64 Ohms, resulting in a total loss of 94 Ohms. One will need an RF power of 3.85 kW and the antennavoltage will be 124kV. With this antenna is will be very difficult to get 1 Watt EIRP in practice, the antennavoltage will be the big burden. 4. Doing the same calculations all over for a 1 meter vertical will result in a loadingcoil of 0.226 Henry, a RF power needed of 87MW and a antennavoltage of 13MV. Not very pracical values ! 5. A last example to point out the importance if good toploading : assume that we have a 10 meter vertical with extensive toploading. In that case the radiation resistance wil be about 0.03 Ohms and the antennacapacitance can be up to 500pF. For this antenna the loadingcoil needs to be 2.7mH (coil-loss = 8 Ohms). The antennacurrent needed will be 3.3A resulting in a RF power of 420 Watts and an antennavoltage of 7.75kV. This seems quite acceptable values to me, so in the right circumstances (low losses) 1 Watt EIRP can be achieved with 'normal' antennas. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25283 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2000 10:39:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Feb 2000 10:39:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12I7vG-0003ry-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Feb 2000 10:31:06 +0000 Received: from apollo.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.125]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12I7vD-0003rt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Feb 2000 10:31:03 +0000 Received: from pc171.geog.le.ac.uk ([143.210.25.171] helo=kate) by apollo.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.03 #1) id 12I7v3-0006uo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Feb 2000 10:30:53 +0000 From: "kate moore" To: "lfgroup" Subject: LF: Weekend new ones Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:26:30 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Like everyone, I was most impressed by the 7S6SAJ signal, which read S9+10dB on my meter - almost as strong as Dave G3YXM! I was out most of Saturday afternoon so it took some time to work Christer through the pile-up; eventually having him reply to my own CQ way down the band! He complained about severe RX QRM at that time and seemed to be having difficulty copying most of the many stations who were calling. It will be interesting to see Christer's comments on this - perhaps there was a lot of LF noise being generated on the site, or maybe the receiver couldn't handle the high signal levels from the big antenna, if that was what they were using on receive. We shall see. Despite what some would have us believe, there is an element of luck on LF in getting a site which works consistently well on both receive and transmit. There also seems to be an advantage in having a deaf (or 'deafened') receiver when using a very big antenna....... It was interesting to see Alan's relay of the cluster spot for my QSO with DK7KO. This was another new one for me, but less interesting than the contact I had with HB9DCE at 10.43UT on Sunday morning. He called on my frequency as I finished a contact with DK5PT, and seemed rather surprised when I responded, although his signal peaked RST-559. LX1PD worked him immediately afterwards, but I didn't hear anyone else call him. Is this another case of the mythical assymetrical ear syndrome, or (much more likely) the geographical variations in propagation that many of us are observing on the band? I for one notice this particularly on Swiss, Austrian, South German and North Italian signals, where sometimes I hear them better than other G stations and sometimes worse - an effect with mountains and sky-wave perhaps? (Toni - do you have HB9DCE's address?) Regards John G4GVC near Leicester, IO92JP ** TX: Synth + 400W RF from modified 'G3YXM' Mosfet PA ** ** RX: TS-850S with 3 x CW filters and 0.5ppm TCXO ** ** Ant: Inv-L 60m long, 6m high at feed end, 12m high at far end ** From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25438 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2000 12:10:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Feb 2000 12:10:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12I9NM-0004Zj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Feb 2000 12:04:12 +0000 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12I9NL-0004Zd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Feb 2000 12:04:11 +0000 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12I9N6-00010x-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 12:03:56 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Tue, 08 Feb 2000 12:00:09 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 12:00:07 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Weekend new ones In-reply-to: X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G4GVC wrote: >. . . .. . the > contact I had with HB9DCE at 10.43UT on Sunday morning. He called on my > frequency as I finished a contact with DK5PT, and seemed rather surprised > when I responded, although his signal peaked RST-559. LX1PD worked him > immediately afterwards, but I didn't hear anyone else call him. Is this > another case of the mythical assymetrical ear syndrome, or (much more > likely) the geographical variations in propagation that many of us are > observing on the band? I heard this QSO but only a few letters of HB9DCE's transmission so did not bother to call. My local noise had been very low earlier but got up to S5 by the time this QSO took place. Anyone without local noise is at a great advantage - I occasionally hear the real noise floor when all of the computers and TVs are off - and I am sure that this is a major factor in how 'deaf' anyone is. In the days when local noise was significant on 73kHz - before Rugby got wide - I did a lot of portable receiving and could hear signals in the countryside several s-points below town levels. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 131 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2000 12:39:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Feb 2000 12:39:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12I9pQ-0004mk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Feb 2000 12:33:12 +0000 Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12I9pP-0004me-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Feb 2000 12:33:11 +0000 Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.53) with SMTP id 03467316 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 13:32:50 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <38A134F5.5D919522@phonakcom.ch> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 01:35:49 -0800 From: "Toni Baertschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Weekend new ones References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > (Toni - do you have HB9DCE's address?) Yes it is: Berthold Schuerch Liebensberg 8547 Gachnang Switzerland e-mail: hb9vikinghorse@bluewin.ch Berth's QTH is north of Zurich, abt 140 km from my location. He has about 10 dB less power than I but probably a better antenna. He uses a big loop as a separate RX antenna and has a very good receiving situation (rabbit ears!). Berth made the first contacts from HB to OZ, OE and OM and his ODX is probably Reino. He is still working on his CW and gives usually very short replies. He is the strongest station (stronger than 7S6SAJ) at my QTH, despite all the hills (Emmental) between us. We have regular contacts on LF and on our 160m Swiss net on 1991 kHz in SSB. > ** Ant: Inv-L 60m long, 6m high at feed end, 12m high at far end ** BTW, John: It's amazing, your signal is one of the strongest from UK and this from a relatively low antenna! 73 de Toni, HB2ASB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7572 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2000 18:01:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Feb 2000 18:01:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12IEk3-0006xX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:47:59 +0000 Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12IEjz-0006xS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:47:55 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12IEhM-0006ut-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:45:12 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <18416.200002081752@gemini> From: "James Moritz" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 17:52:54 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: LF Antenna Radiation X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group,

As an attempt to increase the available data on fields radiated from LF antennas,I enlisted the aid of Dave Lauder, G0SNO, to perform some field strength measurements on my LF signal. Dave is a colleague at the University of Hertfordshire, and writes the Radcom EMC column. Thanks for giving up your spare time, Dave.

I sent some test signals on 136.0kHz from my home QTH, whilst
Dave measured the field strength at U of H's Telecomms lab, 4.2km
away. We used a Schaffner-Chase HLA6120A wideband active
loop antenna, in conjunction with an HP 8591EM EMC spectrum analyser. The loop antenna actually senses the magnetic (H) field component of the radio wave, but since the distance from the transmitter is great enough (nearly 2 wavelengths) to be considered to be in the far field, the electric field strength (E) can be calculated from the relationship E/H = 120pi. The calibration data for the antenna is programmed into the analyser, w hich does the calculations to give the measurement directly in terms of the equivalent electric field, in volts per metre.

I measured my antenna dimensions as accurately as possible with
it in two configurations, (1) at 6.1m average height, then propped
up with telescopic poles to (2), 8.1m. Transmit power was around
100W, and I adjusted power for an antenna current of 1.4A in both
cases. The equivalent E field strength was 141uV/m for (1), and 195uV/m for (2).

Using the text book formula for radiation resistance of a top-loaded
vertical, ie. Rr = 160. pi^2.h^2/lambda^2, and 1.4A current gives
radiation resistance and total radiated power:
(1) - 12milliohms, 24mW
(2) - 21milliohms, 42mW

To get to ERP, according to the definition in the BR68 regulations
booklet, we must take directivity of the short monopole vs.
directivity of a half wave dipole into account. The ideal monopole
has directive gain over the dipole , since it is over a ground plane;
no power gets radiated downwards, therefore there is twice as
much power radiated above the ground plane. According to the text
books, the directivity of a short, top loaded monopole is 3.0, whilst
that of a half wave dipole is 1.64. The gain of the monopole over a
dipole is therefore 3/1.64, or 1.8.

Therefore, the ERP of the vertical is the radiated power x1.8, or:
(1) 43mW
(2) 76mW
(must get on with that 1.3kW amplifier!)

Again referring to the text books, the field stength in mV/m due to a
given ERP is 7.sqrt(ERP)/r, where r is the distance in km. For
4.2km then, the field strengths should be:
(1) 340uV/m
(2) 460uV/m

Comparing these calculated field strengths with the measured
values shows that the actual field stength is about 7.5dB down on
the calculated field strength. Increasing the height of the antenna
gives an increase in field strength of 2.8dB, close to t hat predicted
by the radiation resistance formula.

Possible causes of the missing 7.5dB could be losses in ground
wave propagation over imperfect ground. However, the curves in
Terman's Radio Engineering show that over this distance,
additional losses are insignificant even with poor grounds.

The other possibility is the vertical directional pattern of the
antenna. An ideal short monopole over perfect ground has field
proportional to the cosine of the elevation angle, ie. maximum at
ground level and zero straight up. As others have discussed,
imperfect ground results in a null in the radiation pattern at ground
level. If the maximum radiation occurs at 20 degrees elevation, you
would have to position the measuring antenna at a height of 1400
metres at 4.2km distance in order to measure it.

The results seem to be in reasonable agreement with the opinions
a few weeks ago resulting from PA0SE and DK8KW's
m easurements, ie, that people were several dB short of the ERP
they thought they had. However, these measurements are made
over longer distances, and the data in Terman's book shows that
beyond a certain distance, the field strength of the ground wave
falls off faster for an imperfect ground, and becomes inversely
proportional to the square of the distance, compared to a perfect
ground, where it is just an inverse-distance law. The point where
this occurs depends on the ground constants, but is about 30km for
very poor ground, and 300km for sea water. There is also the
question of at what point ionospheric propagation becomes dominant.

Hope this gives some food for thought,

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23543 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2000 21:32:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Feb 2000 21:32:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12II5f-0008SP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Feb 2000 21:22:31 +0000 Received: from [195.166.128.23] (helo=merlins.force9.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12II5b-0008SK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Feb 2000 21:22:27 +0000 Received: (qmail 275 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2000 21:22:20 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by merlins.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Feb 2000 21:22:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 23082 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2000 21:22:19 -0000 Received: from 136.03-02.quay.dial.plus.net.uk (HELO main) (212.159.70.136) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Feb 2000 21:22:19 -0000 Message-ID: <015601bf727b$43a20a20$0600a8c0@main> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" References: <18416.200002081752@gemini> Subject: LF: Re: LF Antenna Radiation Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 19:28:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Good work Jim and Dave....
 
Snippety-snip
>As others have discussed,
>imperfect ground results in a null in the radiation pattern at ground
>level. If the maximum radiation occurs at 20 degrees elevation, you
>would have to position the measuring antenna at a height of 1400
>metres at 4.2km distance in order to measure it.

>The results seem to be in reasonable agreement with the opinions
>a few weeks ago resulting from PA0SE and DK8KW's
>measurements, ie, that people were several dB short of the ERP
>they thought they had.
 
I always thought that the idea of a "high angle" antenna was interesting, equivalent to a low dipole on topband which is useless locally but gets out OK at a distance. The measured erp would be tiny, but the high angle signal would propagate pretty well. You could then jack up the power to 10 kilowatts and work the world...   
If only it were a practical proposition at LF....  ah dreams! 
 
73, Dave G3YXM.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9142 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2000 08:27:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Feb 2000 08:27:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ISGH-00048n-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2000 08:14:09 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.53] helo=pefletti.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ISGG-00048g-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2000 08:14:08 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from default (MDCXVIII.tdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.83.218]) by pefletti.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA05746 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:13:29 +0200 (EET) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000209101341.007c5370@laatikko.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@laatikko.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 10:13:41 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: Signal Strength Measurements by OH2LX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Measurements of UK Decca's and some other stations : ---------------------------------------------------------- Day ------------------ 04Feb 05Feb 06Feb 07Feb 08Feb Time, UTC ------------ 2150- 2205- 2130- 2200- 2135- ---------------------------------------------------------- kHz Ch *d,km AZI* *Indicated ESH2 input, dBmW* ---------------------------------------------------------- 127.8 (6C), 1435, 280, -109 -103 -112 -101 -106 ---------------------------------------------------------- 126.7 (2A), 1565, 269, -111 -103 -107 -105 -108 ---------------------------------------------------------- 128.5 (8E), 1766, 276, -110 -101 -107 -113 -101 ---------------------------------------------------------- 127.0 (3B), 1871, 257, -111 -105 -116 -109 -109 ---------------------------------------------------------- 127.5 (5B), 1890, 247, -104 -105 -106 -102 -103 ---------------------------------------------------------- 128.2 (7D), 2060, 267, -120 -119 -118 -119 -121 ---------------------------------------------------------- 126.4 (1B), 2282, 253, -116 -114 -107 -110 -117 ---------------------------------------------------------- kHz Ch *d,km AZI* *Indicated ESH2 input, dBmW* ---------------------------------------------------------- 128.93 ref, 1553, 228, -80 -81 -83 -81 -81 ---------------------------------------------------------- 138.83 ref 1221, 226, -77 -84 -81 -83 -79 ---------------------------------------------------------- 135.8 SXV 2490, 182, -101 -107 -110 -112 -107 ---------------------------------------------------------- 137.0 CFH 5750, 295, Nil Nil -127 -126 -125 ---------------------------------------------------------- SM6PXJ 630, 265, -114 -120 ---------------------------------------------------------- OH3LYG 120, 333, -102 ---------------------------------------------------------- OH1BS 161, 268, -119 -119 ---------------------------------------------------------- 04Feb 2124: OG5UFO -112 (d=152km) 04Feb 2124: OH1LSQ -127 (d=340km) 04Feb 2133: MM0ALM -126 (d=1610km) 04Feb 2150: DJ9IE <-127 (d=1490km) 05Feb 2018: OH1TN -110 (d=152km) 05Feb 2012: SM4DHN -125 (d=?) 08Feb 2120: OH1LT -126 (d=?) --------------------------------------------------------- (R&S ESH2/---- 10m coax---/1:10/---15m wire-----): Noise level with antenna: with 200Hz IF BandWidth: -24..-22 dB(uV), -131..-129dBmW (varies w qrm etc) --------------------------------------------------------- End of message of 09 Feb 2000, 0815 UTC, from OH2LX ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8189 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2000 10:23:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Feb 2000 10:23:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12IU4j-0004xn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2000 10:10:21 +0000 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12IU4i-0004xi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2000 10:10:20 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (2410808414.dialin.freeler.nl [143.178.4.94]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 41CD9CAEAC for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:09:48 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <004201bf72e6$85d470c0$2707b28f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <18416.200002081752@gemini> Subject: LF: Re: LF Antenna Radiation Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 11:14:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE
 
Jim, M0BMU, wrote
Comparing these calculated field strengths with the measured
values shows that the actual field stength is about 7.5dB down on
the calculated field strength. Increasing the height of the antenna
gives an increase in field strength of 2.8dB, close to that predicted
by the radiation resistance formula.

My experience is the same, calculating power into the aerial from the radiation resistance of the aerial (found by computer modelling) and the aerial current and measuring the field strength at a distance of more than 3 km. I cannot remember whether the discrepancy was also 7.5 dB but it was considerable.

The other possibility is the vertical directional pattern of the
antenna. An ideal short monopole over perfect ground has field
proportional to the cosine of the elevation angle, ie. maximum at
ground level and zero straight up. As others have discussed,
imperfect ground results in a null in the radiation pattern at ground
level. If the maximum radiation occurs at 20 degrees elevation, you
would have to position the measuring antenna at a height of 1400
metres at 4.2km distance in order to measure it.
 
As I understand it (but I am not an expert on propagation matters) the power at low angles not contained in the lower part of the vertical radiation pattern is the power that goes into the surface wave. Over a perfect ground the surface wave could not exist.
I checked this by computer modelling the field at a distance where the near field would be negligible, so what remains in the total field is the sum of the direct wave, the wave reflected against the earth (these two almost cancel each other due to the 180° phase change at the reflection point and the almost equal path lengths at grazing angles) and the surface wave. The field remained of the same strength up to at least 2 km.
 
Vaino, OH2LX, by measuring field strength using an aircraft, also found that field strength hardly changes with height.
 
He also gave as his opinion that finding ERP by measuring field strength is almost impossible.
 
I wonder how the authorities do it in countries where ERP is limited and not transmitter output, as in the Netherlands?
 
It seems that The Mystery of the Missing Decibels remains unsolved for the time being.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
 
JO22GD
 

 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 284 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2000 11:44:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Feb 2000 11:44:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12IVOG-0005Z5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:34:36 +0000 Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.41] helo=pyyhe.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12IVOC-0005Yy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:34:32 +0000 Received: from default (MMDCCXLIII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.45.43]) by pyyhe.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA20368 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 13:45:06 +0200 (EET) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000209133433.0084ce70@laatikko.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: oh2lx@laatikko.saunalahti.fi X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 13:34:33 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: LF Fs vs effective ground conductivity vs EMRP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I found from my archives an old report about flight measurements of Swedish Decca's dated in May 1970. A DC-3 was used for measurements. *MARKENS KONDUKTIVITET BESTÄMD MED HJÄLP AV FÄLTSTYRKEMÄTNINGAR INOM LĹNVĹGSOMRĹDET* (translated as): Ground conductivity determined from Field strength measurements of Long wave stations *FOA 3 rapport, A 3743-60, Maj 1970* There is a map showing calculated effective conductivity for more than 25 radials, with Sigma values varying between 0.24 to 0.60 mS/m. Decca frequencies cover roughly 84...128 kHz. Swedish report also gives estimated EMRP values derived from flight measurements and they vary from 400ą100 W for Kallax Green (127.4) to as low as 24ą5 W for Ĺrjäng Purple (71.5). Note: Swedish Decca's went qrt on 31 Dec 1999. 73 de Vaino, OH2LX PS Our measurements correlate well with these ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5143 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2000 11:50:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Feb 2000 11:50:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12IVV6-0005aA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:41:40 +0000 Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12IVV4-0005a3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:41:38 +0000 Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.53) with SMTP id 03510570 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 12:41:19 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <38A27A64.B4580F05@phonakcom.ch> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 00:44:20 -0800 From: "Toni Baertschi" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: ERP measurements Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >>From HB2ASB, JN36pt I think it's impossible to calculate meaningful ERP values from field strength measurements from LF amateur radio stations. The measurement uncertainty is just too large. Already on VHF, ERP measurements are difficult, even in a controlled environment. As an example, look at the ETSI standards and see what they say in the chapter "measurements uncertainty". You will often find +/- 6 dB for the radiated power ( for comparison: conducted RF Power +/- 0.75 dB)! 73 de Toni From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25398 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2000 14:22:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Feb 2000 14:22:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12IXrJ-0006eu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2000 14:12:45 +0000 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12IXrF-0006ep-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2000 14:12:42 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (2410825294.dialin.freeler.nl [143.178.70.78]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 79985CAEEC for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:12:12 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <004001bf7308$638bc460$4e46b28f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Surface Wave Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:11:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE
 
Further to my email of 11.14:
 
I'm afraid I did not make very clear that the vertical radiation pattern of antennas, as found in the books, do not include the surface wave. The null in the pattern under low angles over real ground is filled by the surface wave.
It is the surface wave we use for our LF QSO's up to a few hundred kilometres.
 
 
I can recommend studying an old, but very readable article:
 
Radio Propagation Fundamentals
 
          by
 
Kenneth Bullington
 
The Bell System Technical Journal, Volume XXXVI, May 1957,
Number 3
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4714 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2000 19:35:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Feb 2000 19:35:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12IceV-0000Iq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2000 19:19:51 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12IceU-0000Il-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2000 19:19:50 +0000 Received: from [195.44.215.61] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12IceK-0006KW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2000 19:19:41 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <38A1BD8F.26224C9B@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 19:18:39 +0000 From: "g3kev" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: dxpedition Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All. Was planning to operated from Cookstown/Tyrone (GI) this weekend but because of the gales forecast it might be impossibe to get the 130 ft antenna erected. The tower is in situ and would probably stand the gales but getting the antenna configured could be difficult. The antenna would consist of 3 inv L antennas in parallel each one 130 ft vertical and each top section 400 ft long. Wire used is 2.5 mm insulated with suitable marine insulators as required. They would converge at the bottom and be attached to a base loaded inductor to resonate at 137 khz. The ground radials consist of 10 lengths of 400 ft 2.5 mm insulated wire and the far end of each one connected to sheep fencing which runs for miles across the country. The radials are elevated about 1 metre above ground. The output should be around 1w erp. When serious transatlantic tests evolve ie compatibility at each end I will extend each top loading wire several hundred feet to maximise efficiency both on tx and rx. I intend to operate from this qth several times each year wx permitting, I do not want the tower wrecked in gales or storms. The tower is heavy duty commercial lattice construction and telescopic and guyed with heavy marine rope. It is fine when erected but getting it up and wires attached in gales is another story. Getting it back down in a storm is even WORSE, the sections will not slide down properly because of the wind pressure agains the sides. The guys are slack and then it gets VERY DANGEROUS. You have to experience this to appreciate the hazards. Maybe a 20 ft pole or a low tree, which most are using on Lf is the answer and would be safer and forget about DX except for a bit of luck once in a while. . 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2371 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2000 22:09:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Feb 2000 22:09:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12If43-0001HM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2000 21:54:23 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12If41-0001HH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2000 21:54:21 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from pickmere.demon.co.uk ([158.152.117.143]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12If3u-000LFZ-0C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 21:54:15 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 19:47:37 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M.J.Powell" Subject: Re: LF: dxpedition References: <38A1BD8F.26224C9B@netscapeonline.co.uk> In-reply-to: <38A1BD8F.26224C9B@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In message <38A1BD8F.26224C9B@netscapeonline.co.uk>, g3kev writes >Hi All. Was planning to operated from Cookstown/Tyrone (GI) this weekend >but because of the gales forecast it might be impossibe to get the 130 >ft antenna erected. The tower is in situ and would probably stand the >gales but getting the antenna configured could be difficult. The antenna >would consist of 3 inv L antennas in parallel each one 130 ft vertical >and each top section 400 ft long. Wire used is 2.5 mm insulated with >suitable marine insulators as required. >They would converge at the bottom and be attached to a base loaded >inductor to resonate at 137 khz. The ground radials consist of 10 >lengths of 400 ft 2.5 mm insulated wire and the far end of each one >connected to sheep fencing which runs for miles across the country. >The radials are elevated about 1 metre above ground. The output should >be around 1w erp. >When serious transatlantic tests evolve ie compatibility at each end I >will extend each top loading wire several hundred feet to maximise >efficiency both on tx and rx. >I intend to operate from this qth several times each year wx permitting, >I do not want the tower wrecked in gales or storms. The tower is heavy >duty commercial lattice construction and telescopic and guyed with heavy >marine rope. It is fine when erected but getting it up and wires >attached in gales is another story. Getting it back down in a storm is >even WORSE, the sections will not slide down properly because of the >wind pressure agains the sides. The guys are slack and then it gets VERY >DANGEROUS. You have to experience this to appreciate the hazards. >Maybe a 20 ft pole or a low tree, which most are using on Lf is the >answer and would be safer and forget about DX except for a bit of luck >once in a while. Would it be worth remembering what Marconi discovered when the gales ruined his aerials at Cape Cod? That an inverted 'L' aerial has some gain towards the feed end (?). Mike -- M.J.Powell From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5608 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2000 00:40:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Feb 2000 00:40:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12IhQe-0002M8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 00:25:52 +0000 Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.15]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12IhQc-0002M0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 00:25:51 +0000 Received: from locxvcym ([210.55.37.190]) by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <20000210002509.WYGT3352759.mta4-rme@locxvcym> for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:25:09 +1300 From: "ComPact" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: dxpedition X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:29:51 +1300 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <20000210002509.WYGT3352759.mta4-rme@locxvcym> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all G3KEV wrote: >The antenna >would consist of 3 inv L antennas in parallel each one 130 ft vertical >and each top section 400 ft long. Wire used is 2.5 mm insulated with >suitable marine insulators as required. Nice antenna Mal ! From my calculations you'll only need about 10 watts into the antenna to get 1 watt erp. Does that agree with your figures? Mike ZL4OL From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5655 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2000 10:51:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Feb 2000 10:51:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ir2Y-0006Lh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:41:38 +0000 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ir2X-0006Lc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:41:37 +0000 Received: from modem-4.doriath.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.156.4] helo=lvm) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12Ir2O-0003Wg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:41:29 +0000 Message-ID: <000201bf73b3$65a7cfe0$049c883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: G3KEV DX Expedition. Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:40:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
It seems to me that there are several problems with this antenna system.I am not refering to the DANGERS of the tower which do seem to be troubling Mal.No I am more concerned with the efficiency of the structure.For the following reasons:-
1) The use of 3 inverted L  ants on the same support will imply 3 vertical wires which will result in excessive capacity to ground and indeed to the tower.This will mean more antenna current low down,defeating the object of the high support.
2) The same applies to the sloping top loading,as these wires approach ground they too will carry excessive current low down.
3)The use of radials only 1m above ground,this will be self defeating since they will couple closely into the ground losses, they could as well have been placed on the ground where they would not be a hazard to people animals etc.
Finally I would have been concerned about this antenna having such a high efficency (ie high radation resistance) that care would have been needed to keep the ERP within legal limits,however the construction as proposed is not in my opinion likely to be anywhere near as efficient as it might be.73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7948 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2000 12:44:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Feb 2000 12:44:33 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12IsoY-0007Bm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:35:18 +0000 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.91]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12IsoV-0007Bg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:35:15 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12IsoI-00094b-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:35:03 +0000 Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:12:12 +0000 To: "RSGB LF Group" From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: LF: Power MOSFETs MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A short while ago David G0MRF posted a note recommending a power MOSFET called an STW34NB20 as a replacement for the IRFP450. Note that this appears to be incorrectly specified in the RS catalog. Its VDS max. is 200 volts not 500 volts as shown! (Graham, that's not the reason for your exploding Tx is it?) 73, Tom G3OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26489 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2000 16:03:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Feb 2000 16:03:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JIKC-0001xi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 15:49:40 +0000 Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JIK9-0001xd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 15:49:37 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12JIHQ-0006aq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 15:46:48 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <24544.200002111554@gemini> From: "James Moritz" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 15:54:34 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: ERP and field strength again X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Thanks for the comments about field strengths, propagation modes, etc. I have done a bit more work on the subject: I have revised my estimates of the radiation resistance of my antenna, using EZNEC. If zero losses and a perfect ground are assumed, EZNEC gives a value for the radiation resistance of the antenna as 19 milliohms, as against the original estimate of 21milliohms, for my 8.1m high antenna. I also tried estimating the effects of objects near the antenna, ie. house and shed, by adding grounded wire boxes of aproximately the right size and shape. This reduced Rrad to 17milliohms. There don't seem to be any other objects nearby that could radically affect the radiation resistance. I also used G4FGQ's TANT136 program to estimate the radiation resistance. This yielded a value of 17milliohms also. Using this new value, and 1.4 A antenna current, radiated power comes to 33mW, and ERP is 60mW. The expected field strength at 4.2km is 408uV/m, against the measured value of 195uV/m. The discrepancy is reduced a bit, from 7.8 to 6.4dB. HB2ASB points out that field strengths are subject to quite large measurement errors. Measuring vertically polarised fields at LF is regarded as relatively reliable; from the equipment manuals, the loop antenna calibration is to within 1.8dB, and the analyser within 1.1dB. Allowing a further 1dB (about 10%) each for measuring the antenna current and dimensions, the total uncertainty is about 5dB. This is still not quite enough to account for the difference, and the errors are unlikely to all add together anyway, as the statisticians will tell you. Most Antenna text books contain graphical data on ground wave propagation. This is usually a graph of field strength vs. distance for various types of ground, normalised to 1kW power radiated from an electrically short vertical. Reading off at 4.2km, and scaling for 33mW radiated power gives about 400uV/m, the same estimated field strength as above - the ground losses are small over such a short distance. OH2LX also kindly sent me some computer calculated data, indicating that for 30mW radiated power, field strength at 4.0km should be 385uV/m, which is also close. The estimated field strength seems to be a good consensus. Of course, a single set of measurements is not enough to build elaborate theories around - what is needed are some more measurements, with different antennas and grounds, etc. Measuring over a short distance is important, because it effectively eliminates other propagation modes, such as ionospheric reflections. What use is all this? well, 2 things. First, it makes the field strength measurements made over larger distances much more useful - since you then have a good idea how much power was radiated in the first place, as well as how much arrived at the other end. Therefore, we can learn more about different types of propagation, effectiveness of antennas, and so on. The other important thing is to determine what ERP your station has - especially in countries where the 1W maximum ERP limit applies. The results I have obtained so far seem to show that calculated ERPs are rather over optimistic. A field strength measurement may be more realistic, and isn't very difficult to do (eg. see PA0SE's design for a field strength meter on G3YXM's web page - http://www.picks.force9.co.uk/pa0se.htm). The HP8591EM/HLA6120 measuring combination I used is rather deaf - the noise floor is about 26dBuV/m - and I'm not sure if the university would let me borrow it - which limits the possibilities for doing more measurements with it. G3XDV's signal could probably be measured from within the university though - how about it Mike? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23274 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2000 17:10:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Feb 2000 17:10:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JJQM-0002Tm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 17:00:06 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JJQF-0002TG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 16:59:59 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA126992 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 17:59:50 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000211185737.4697b3a6@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:57:37 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: ERP and field strength again In-reply-to: <24544.200002111554@gemini> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 15:54 11/02/00 +0000, M0BMU wrote: <... >I have revised my estimates of the radiation resistance of my >antenna, using EZNEC. If zero losses and a perfect ground are >assumed, EZNEC gives a value for the radiation resistance of the >antenna as 19 milliohms, as against the original estimate of >21milliohms, for my 8.1m high antenna. I also tried estimating the > >... >Using this new value, and 1.4 A antenna current, radiated power >comes to 33mW, and ERP is 60mW. The expected field strength at >4.2km is 408uV/m, against the measured value of 195uV/m. The >discrepancy is reduced a bit, from 7.8 to 6.4dB. >... Hello Jim, Whatever your ERP, is you have a good signal in the centre of Belgium. It proves that with a modest TX and antenna you might not be 'the king of the mountain' but you can work a lot of stations. Regarding the ERP maesurements : you are using a magnetic antenna to measure the ERP of an electric antenna, so as long as you are not 100% in the far field it is quite normal that what you measure is lower than expected. At 136kHz a distance of 4.2km is less than 2 wavelengths, maybe a bit too less to have a proper far field. I remind that in an article about medium wave antennas (600kHz range) the minimum distance to measure ERP was set at 1 mile from the antenna (so about 3.2 wavelengths), converted to 136kHz this would mean 7km. It would be very interesting to find a reliable (and not too difficult way) to measure ERP as this is the only way to know wether we stay within the legal 1W ERP limit. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24248 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2000 17:12:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Feb 2000 17:12:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JJVG-0002Vy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 17:05:10 +0000 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JJVE-0002Vs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 17:05:08 +0000 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12JJUx-000727-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 17:04:51 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 16:47:06 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 16:47:03 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: ERP and field strength again In-reply-to: <24544.200002111554@gemini> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >. . . . . . G3XDV's signal could probably be measured > from within the university though - how about it Mike? > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > Any time. It may also shed light on the interesting anomoly where I have more current into a bigger antenna but radiate a smaller signal than you. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11572 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2000 23:35:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Feb 2000 23:35:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JPSn-0005U4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 23:27:01 +0000 Received: from host.king.igs.net ([216.58.2.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JPSl-0005Tz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 23:27:00 +0000 Received: from server1 (ttyC29.king.igs.net [216.58.2.157]) by host.king.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id SAA17452 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:26:48 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kayser@king.igs.net) Message-ID: <000901bf74e7$7c4901d0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: is/was DDH47 on 147.3 kHz at 2249 UTC (about)????? Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:26:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings: Was DDH47 on 147.300 with a continuous carrier for about 20 seconds at 2249 UTC tonight? If they sent a continuous carrier for about 20 seconds then I saw them on my computer here in Eastern Ontario about 75 miles south of Ottawa our capital city. QTH here is about 45 d 28 min north and 75 d 2 min west and DDH47 would be just on 6000 kms from here. I have a .WAV file, very very large, of the time preceding and including the strong carrier at 2249 UTC. The time for grayline was about perfect, sun was down and the light of day was fading fast at the time. Was anyone else listening for the test? Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6615 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2000 23:36:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Feb 2000 23:36:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JPUT-0005UJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 23:28:45 +0000 Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JPUS-0005U7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 23:28:44 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from PBRS176562@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.9e.1088a15 (3940) for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:28:03 -0500 (EST) From: PBRS176562@aol.com Message-ID: <9e.1088a15.25d5f503@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:28:03 EST Subject: LF: ERP and field strength again To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 32 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi At our Receiving station We have been able to hear DDH47 in Hamburgh on 137.3KHZ at 589 on a CB antenna time 22.43 73 Paul BRS176562 and Peter BRS181414 E-mail PBRS176562@aol.com Web site http://members.aol.com/g5lo/myhomepage/club.html From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17008 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2000 00:15:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Feb 2000 00:15:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JQ6s-0005u8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:08:26 +0000 Received: from host.king.igs.net ([216.58.2.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JQ6q-0005u3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:08:24 +0000 Received: from server1 (ttyC12.king.igs.net [216.58.2.140]) by host.king.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id TAA19761 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 19:08:10 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kayser@king.igs.net) Message-ID: <000801bf74ed$43967bf0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Further Cdn maybe reception of DDH47..... Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 19:07:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: Further to my email to the reflector on the possible reception this evening here in Canada of the special test from DDH47, the loud carrier piece now is in a .jpg file here and anyone who wants can have a copy. The signal was much louder before the loud piece which I have now measured to be 17.7 seconds long. After this the signal was much weaker and went away completely a few minutes later. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22999 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2000 00:31:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Feb 2000 00:31:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JQIx-0005w3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:20:55 +0000 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl ([195.121.6.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JQIv-0005vu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:20:53 +0000 Received: from nl9222tvtref.nl ([195.121.218.28]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA32B6 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:20:15 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: is/was DDH47 on 147.3 kHz at 2249 UTC (about)????? X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:20:09 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------030607020809000804040308" Message-ID: <7735E6D07DE.AAA32B6@smtp03.wxs.nl> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030607020809000804040308 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Larry.. Yes they did send the carrier, between the transmissionshere in JO22KF it was only 9+10dB on a vertical for 80m. I have been watching DDH47 from 22:30 to 23:20. I did not record a .wav file, but grabbed the last 2 transmissions the did send out, quiet interesting.. For those who are interested, find 2 parts of DDH47 text 73 de Ko Versteeg, NL9222 ---------- > From: Larry Kayser > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: is/was DDH47 on 147.3 kHz at 2249 UTC (about)????? > Date: Saturday, February 12, 2000 12:26 AM > > Greetings: > > Was DDH47 on 147.300 with a continuous carrier for about 20 seconds at 2249 > UTC tonight? > > If they sent a continuous carrier for about 20 seconds then I saw them on my > computer here in Eastern Ontario about 75 miles south of Ottawa our capital > city. > > QTH here is about 45 d 28 min north and 75 d 2 min west and DDH47 would be > just on 6000 kms from here. > > I have a .WAV file, very very large, of the time preceding and including the > strong carrier at 2249 UTC. > > The time for grayline was about perfect, sun was down and the light of day > was fading fast at the time. > > Was anyone else listening for the test? > > Larry > VA3LK > > > --------------030607020809000804040308 Content-Type: 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post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Feb 2000 00:37:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JQP9-0005wu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:27:19 +0000 Received: from [192.139.219.10] (helo=claven.fanshawec.on.ca) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JQP7-0005wR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:27:17 +0000 Received: from [198.96.18.43] by claven.fanshawec.on.ca with ESMTP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 19:26:13 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 19:26:56 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: is/was DDH47 on 147.3 kHz at 2249 UTC (about)????? From: "Mitch Powell" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Did you get a copy of this ? Hi At our Receiving station We have been able to hear DDH47 in Hamburgh on 137.3KHZ at 589 on a CB antenna time 22.43 73 Paul BRS176562 and Peter BRS181414 E-mail PBRS176562@aol.com Web site http://members.aol.com/g5lo/myhomepage/club.html Picked it up from the RSGG reflector at the same time I received your message. Maybe Conratulations are in order ! Mitch From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10284 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2000 01:20:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Feb 2000 01:20:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JR4W-0006OI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:10:04 +0000 Received: from host.king.igs.net ([216.58.2.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JR4U-0006OD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:10:03 +0000 Received: from server1 (ttyC13.king.igs.net [216.58.2.141]) by host.king.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id UAA23096 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 20:09:53 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kayser@king.igs.net) Message-ID: <000d01bf74f5$e34cbd50$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: DCF39 loud and clear in Canada Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 20:09:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: DCF39 on 138.83 is loud and clear here in Eastern Ontario this evening. They are so loud now I can hear the databursts easily. RX is W&G AT-611 and an active antenna on a single turn coax loop that is unable to hear the WA2 AMRAD beacon only a few hundred miles away. Go figure!!!! .WAV and .JPG files are available to any who want them Larry VA3Lk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29668 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2000 01:27:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Feb 2000 01:27:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JRCZ-0006Oh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:18:23 +0000 Received: from host.king.igs.net ([216.58.2.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JRCX-0006Oc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:18:21 +0000 Received: from server1 (ttyC13.king.igs.net [216.58.2.141]) by host.king.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id UAA23595 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 20:18:13 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kayser@king.igs.net) Message-ID: <001701bf74f7$0d07c3a0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: DCF39 now 21 db above the noise! Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 20:18:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: As I write this DCF39 is 21 dB over the noise here in Eastern Ontario. 200002120116 UTC Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24578 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2000 01:41:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Feb 2000 01:41:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JROt-0006QP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:31:07 +0000 Received: from host.king.igs.net ([216.58.2.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JROs-0006QK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:31:06 +0000 Received: from server1 (ttyC13.king.igs.net [216.58.2.141]) by host.king.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id UAA24220 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 20:30:57 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kayser@king.igs.net) Message-ID: <002801bf74f8$d4a444f0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: VA3LK listening 137.7 PSE Call Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 20:31:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: I am listening centered on 137.7 kHz from 00 to 10, 20 to 30, 40 to 50 minutes every hour till sunrise in Europe. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25322 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2000 01:46:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Feb 2000 01:46:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JRTs-0006bW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:36:16 +0000 Received: from host.king.igs.net ([216.58.2.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JRTr-0006bR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:36:15 +0000 Received: from server1 (ttyC13.king.igs.net [216.58.2.141]) by host.king.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id UAA24507 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 20:36:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kayser@king.igs.net) Message-ID: <002d01bf74f9$86cb6aa0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: is/was DDH47 on 147.3 kHz at 2249 UTC (about)????? Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 20:36:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mitch: Listen 138.83, DCF39 is 579 here now\ Larry From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1200 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2000 01:59:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Feb 2000 01:59:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JRgi-0006d4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:49:32 +0000 Received: from host.king.igs.net ([216.58.2.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JRgh-0006cz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:49:31 +0000 Received: from server1 (ttyC13.king.igs.net [216.58.2.141]) by host.king.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id UAA25204 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 20:49:23 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kayser@king.igs.net) Message-ID: <004501bf74fb$61090e60$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Online internet till sunrise in Europe Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 20:49:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: I am staying on line on the internet till sunrise in Europe. Please email me direct if you can send QRS CW on 137.7 or there abouts. Email address is kayser@king.igs.net. Listening and watching on 137.7, 00 to10 minutes, 20 to 30 minutes, and 40 to 50 minutes each hour. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25629 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2000 02:35:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Feb 2000 02:35:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JSHq-0006xX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 02:27:54 +0000 Received: from host.king.igs.net ([216.58.2.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JSHp-0006xS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 02:27:53 +0000 Received: from server1 (ttyC13.king.igs.net [216.58.2.141]) by host.king.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id VAA27042 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 21:27:45 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kayser@king.igs.net) Message-ID: <000c01bf7500$bd43f320$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: signal on 137.600 Amateur? Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 21:27:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: DCF39 has faded here now. But a signal has just come on 137.600 with what looks like CW, Amateur? Larry VA3Lk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27202 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2000 03:37:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Feb 2000 03:37:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JTGs-0007Oz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 03:30:58 +0000 Received: from m11.boston.juno.com ([205.231.100.194]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JTGr-0007Ou-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 03:30:58 +0000 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"yokUgcxCbtTP7XLrpefewEBn9FiV38rlU0bvIH3f9hYVeqQYaM+Idg=="> Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EYLLSDTP; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 22:30:31 EST X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 22:26:12 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: signal on 137.600 Amateur? Message-ID: <20000211.222905.-5651.6.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,4-7,9-21 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Bob RIESE" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Have had good copy on Spectran for DFC39 started looking at 0200 Z signals were strong with large QSB. Not sure what test were going on with DDH47, saw several postings but indicated different frequencys , Confused as to the correct frequency Bob K3DJC On Fri, 11 Feb 2000 21:27:39 -0500 "Larry Kayser" writes: >Greetings All: > >DCF39 has faded here now. But a signal has just come on 137.600 with >what >looks like CW, Amateur? > >Larry >VA3Lk > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15589 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2000 03:42:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Feb 2000 03:42:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JTKJ-0007PH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 03:34:31 +0000 Received: from host.king.igs.net ([216.58.2.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JTKH-0007PC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 03:34:30 +0000 Received: from server1 (ttyC13.king.igs.net [216.58.2.141]) by host.king.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id WAA30087 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 22:34:21 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kayser@king.igs.net) Message-ID: <002c01bf750a$0b6dc810$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: DCF39 coming back up again Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 22:34:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: DCF39 on 138.83 kHz is coming up rapidly. There are trace signals on 138.845 and 138.880. QSB is on a 4 minute cycle here now. Listening 137.7 on sceduled minutes Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6638 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2000 05:32:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Feb 2000 05:32:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JV0x-0008KI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 05:22:39 +0000 Received: from ds-img-2.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.135] helo=spdmgaab.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JV0v-0008KD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 05:22:38 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.8) id AAA07003 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:22:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:22:10 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: DCF39 coming back up again To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200002120022_MC2-98D6-58A@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Larry, I hope anyone who is currently capable of transmitting on 137.7 read your messages and is QRV. Seems to be a rather exciting night tonight! Unfortunately my antenna is completetly down due to a storm we have had during the week and I only will be able to re-erect it in daylight ... DCF39 is only 120 km away from here, I am in JO52BH. However, my ERP anyhow is pretty limited (abt. 200 mW) so that I probably would not be the right partner for a test. However, with that signal strength of DCF39, a typical ham signal being 50 dB lower, there is a good chance for copy a Slow CW signal. Good luck! 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) http://www.qru.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28183 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2000 06:20:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Feb 2000 06:20:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JVoO-000099-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 06:13:44 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from aurora.eexi.gr ([195.167.28.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JVoM-000094-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 06:13:43 +0000 Received: from odin (ppp56.dialup.eexi.gr [195.167.28.120]) by aurora.eexi.gr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA26278 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 08:14:21 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20000212081336.006ee39c@aurora.eexi.gr> X-Sender: sv1xv@aurora.eexi.gr X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 08:13:36 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Costas Krallis" Subject: Re: LF: is/was DDH47 on 147.3 kHz at 2249 UTC (about)????? In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 19:26 11/02/2000 -0500, you wrote: > > Did you get a copy of this ? > Yes, finally I managed to hear DDH47 in Athens, Greece. Their signal was very weak. Costas SV1XV (ex G7AHN) +------------------------------------------------------------+ | Costas Krallis SV1XV * LOC KM18UA | | P.O.Box 3066 * FAX: +30-1-3811362 | | GR-10210 Athens * E-Mail: sv1xv@eexi.gr | | GREECE * | +------------------------------------------------------------+ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22036 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2000 06:24:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Feb 2000 06:24:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JVsP-00009U-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 06:17:53 +0000 Received: from host.king.igs.net ([216.58.2.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JVsN-00009P-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 06:17:52 +0000 Received: from server1 (ttyC13.king.igs.net [216.58.2.141]) by host.king.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id BAA37181 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:17:40 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kayser@king.igs.net) Message-ID: <00b701bf7520$dc3b4ba0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: DCF39 coming back up again Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:17:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Geri: >I hope anyone who is currently capable of transmitting on 137.7 read your >messages and is QRV. Seems to be a rather exciting night tonight! >Unfortunately my antenna is completetly down due to a storm we have had >during the week and I only will be able to re-erect it in daylight ... Well it has been very quiet from Europe tonight. DCF39 has come way up, 17 db over the noise right now, your sun rise must be coming soon. >DCF39 is only 120 km away from here, I am in JO52BH. However, my ERP anyhow >is pretty limited (abt. 200 mW) so that I probably would not be the right >partner for a test. Buy stock in Power FET companies..... >However, with that signal strength of DCF39, a typical ham signal being 50 >dB lower, there is a good chance for copy a Slow CW signal. Good luck! Well I have no idea what we might have missed tonight. On peaks earlier the signal was 33 dB over the noise here and probably we could have made it visually anyways. I do not think we will be 50 dB lower, maybe in the 30's but not 50 at least that will not be the case from this side. You can "read my lips" on that issue! I was having a hard time, have been trying to hear the AMRAD beacon over here on 136.745 and have not heard it yet. This was not a good scene as I was wondering, and still am wondering, what I had done wrong. The DDH47 test was quite exciting, an SWL told me they sent a long dash, I measured 17.74 seconds long here at 2249 UTC, between the two sections of the test. I hope someone has a .wav file and can confirm the length of the dash. Then DCF39 started to come in and just got louder and louder - quite amazing really. I have been watching all the discussion about weak signal work on this reflector. From the listening I have done here and contemplation on the issue of weak signals, we need to use a coded schema involving FSK with a code system, I have one I started to work on for EME things, or we need a system to transmit frequency over time with a vector coming up on the screen. Either or both would get around the race horses from the Loran-C and all the other noise and junk on the band. If we just do something different we will stand out easily. DCF39 is running QSB now on a 2.2 minute cycle there seem to be quite a few databursts at times, right now I see 5 of them outside of the 10 second ones... 73 Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18952 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2000 07:15:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Feb 2000 07:15:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JWfo-0000ag-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 07:08:56 +0000 Received: from host.king.igs.net ([216.58.2.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JWfn-0000ab-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 07:08:55 +0000 Received: from server1 (ttyC13.king.igs.net [216.58.2.141]) by host.king.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id CAA39374 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 02:08:46 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kayser@king.igs.net) Message-ID: <00ca01bf7527$ffa94180$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Summary of tonight, VA3LK hearing Europe on LF Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 02:08:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: The sun has now risen in Europe and the time has come for me to get some sleep over here. DCF39 on 138.83 kHz was very loud over here earlier this evening, peaking over 33 dB over the noise. Earlier DDH47 on 147.3 kHz was loud enough for a dash sent between the two segments of the transmission (17.74 seconds long measured here) to be clearly measured as some 16 dB over the noise. It is obvious that LF signals do cross the Atlantic in both directions, they cross with sufficient signal strength to make them interesting and to be a challenge for us amateurs to have some fun down the line. At one point I had excellent trace signals on the frequencies of SXV in Greece but NPG from California was doing a pretty good job on them just up the band a tiny bit..... I suggest we are not well served yet by the technology available to us. We need to consider modulation methods that will look different on the screens - multi level FSK or a CW signal with a big chirp that we can see as being different from the vertical and horizontal noise and garbage on the band. Maybe we also need some sort of alerting system to get the gang up and transmitting when the signals are at their peak. DCF39 is now way down in the mud, barely visible on the screen. Interestingly a signal on 138.815 is still riding along, not loud (and it has not been loud all night here) but it is always there. What and Where is it? On 137.6 there is a signal that comes and goes, looks like CW at times, but is definitely not loud enough tonight to be copied. Is it an amateur signal? What are you in Europe hearing on this QRG? To close, I have a package arriving here this weekend of audio tapes made by Jack, VE1ZZ. He has made some tapes to show me what he hears at his place on LF. He incidentally hears the LF Broadcasting stations during the winter as early at 1 and 2 PM!!!!! Jack lives in the Halifax area and he has a problem with 136 as CFH is on 137 and also on 133.15 and Jack is in the middle hi. He is interested in LF but he is not on the Internet. Jack's biggest complaint about LF is that his Beverage antenna is hopelessly short at some 1100 feet long. We should all have such hopelessly short antennas! Enough, I hope everyone has a good weekend. 73 for tonight. Larry VA3LK PS, DCF39 is gone completely now.... 0707 UTC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8137 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2000 10:34:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Feb 2000 10:34:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JZjf-000202-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:25:07 +0000 Received: from smtp7.xs4all.nl ([194.109.127.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JZje-0001zx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:25:06 +0000 Received: from v3q4v1 (dc2-isdn876.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.151.108]) by smtp7.xs4all.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA27372 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 11:24:59 +0100 (CET) From: "M. Sanders \(PA3BSH\)" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: DCF39 now 21 db above the noise! Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 11:18:09 +0100 Message-ID: <000101bf7542$762523a0$6c976dc2@v3q4v1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: <001701bf74f7$0d07c3a0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, FB Larry! Please continue the experiments. It is essential to learn the propagation paterns and fading phenomena. I would like to take a look at one of your .WAV files. For the record: In the Netherlands DCF39 is S9+50dB. The strongest German stations located near DCF can make signals at a level near S9! This indicating a relative ERP level of approx. -50dB. At the 21dB above noise from DCF39 in Canada we can estimate the Radio Amateurs at 29dB BELOW! noise level. If DCF is monitored already at minimum bandwith and with maximum noise reducing techniques i am afraid we still have to figure out how to dig deep into the noise and detect the signals. Who has experience with <-29dB to noise level signal identification? CoherentCW, PSK, SlowCW, dedicated DSP algotithms? There are lock-in amplifiers using similar techniques maybe we can benifit there. Best 73's and gl on lf Michael Sanders, PA3BSH > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]namens > Larry Kayser > Verzonden: zaterdag 12 februari 2000 2:18 > Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Onderwerp: LF: DCF39 now 21 db above the noise! > > > Greetings All: > > As I write this DCF39 is 21 dB over the noise here in Eastern Ontario. > > 200002120116 UTC > > Larry > VA3LK > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13413 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2000 14:28:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Feb 2000 14:28:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JdPl-0003lf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 14:20:49 +0000 Received: from host.king.igs.net ([216.58.2.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JdPj-0003la-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 14:20:48 +0000 Received: from server1 (ttyC31.king.igs.net [216.58.2.159]) by host.king.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id JAA58495 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:20:39 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kayser@king.igs.net) Message-ID: <005001bf7564$54eb0110$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: RE: DCF39 now 21 db above the noise! Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:18:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >FB Larry! Please continue the experiments. It is essential to learn the >propagation paterns and fading phenomena. I would like to take a look at one >of your .WAV files. The sample WAV file is large, 800K, will send separately to anyone who wants it. >For the record: >In the Netherlands DCF39 is S9+50dB. The strongest German stations located >near DCF can make signals at a level near S9! This indicating a relative ERP >level of approx. -50dB. At the 21dB above noise from DCF39 in Canada we can >estimate the Radio Amateurs at 29dB BELOW! noise level. If DCF is monitored >already at minimum bandwith and with maximum noise reducing techniques i am >afraid we still have to figure out how to dig deep into the noise and detect >the signals. I agree that we need some help from technology. I think however that the Swedish guys last weekend had a good idea, excellent idea, excellent way to knock off 10 to 15 of those DB's that keep getting in the way. My receiving system here is not optimized yet either. I know I can do better on the RX side, a lot better. What we need today is a box that one can hook in the feedline to the antenna and what comes out is minus the Loran-C garbage. The Loran-C garbage to come out the port with the 50 ohm resistor on it! When I first did single yagi EME I was told it would not work, I would never be heard. When I used a large lake over here to provide a perfect ground reflection gain I worked EME easily, the db problem had gone away. LF is no different, let us together find out how to move those dB's around to our advantage. >Who has experience with <-29dB to noise level signal identification? >CoherentCW, PSK, SlowCW, dedicated DSP algotithms? There are lock-in >amplifiers using similar techniques maybe we can benifit there. Yes, some of this will help. We need basic tools as well, DSP Programs for us that will monitor DCF39, record the signal levels regularly and send an alarm when the signal peaks above a set threshold. For your side, the same but monitoring CFH. When we understand the propagation behaviour over the North Atlantic we will solve the riddle of having a QSO. In an Economic sense - when we have perfect information we will do the trick that wants to be done..... >Best 73's and gl on lf >Michael Sanders, PA3BSH Yes, I am looking forward to working with your side of the Atlantic. Lots to do for those who are game to do it. Today I am off to find a 40 ft long insulated mast I can hang a 25 ft diameter single turn receiving loop on, as I said the receiver side here needs more work. 73 for the moment..... Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26730 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2000 22:39:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Feb 2000 22:39:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JkwU-0007R6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 22:23:06 +0000 Received: from host.king.igs.net ([216.58.2.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JkwT-0007R1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 22:23:05 +0000 Received: from server1 (ttyC12.king.igs.net [216.58.2.140]) by host.king.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id RAA80908 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 17:22:55 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kayser@king.igs.net) Message-ID: <000d01bf75a7$b4fcfc50$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Again, DCF39 in Canada Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 17:22:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: DCF39 is 19 dB above the noise at 200002122220 utc No more reports unless it exceeds 33 dB when I will start to phone some of you Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 784 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2000 22:52:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Feb 2000 22:52:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JlJY-0007YQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 22:46:56 +0000 Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JlJX-0007YL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 22:46:55 +0000 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12JlJQ-000LY8-0Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 22:46:49 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <38A5E24D.7611FC97@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 22:44:29 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Larry's receiving tests References: <005001bf7564$54eb0110$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry VA3LK wrote: > . . . . My receiving > system here is not optimized yet either. I know I can do better on the RX > side, a lot better. What we need today is a box that one can hook in the > feedline to the antenna and what comes out is minus the Loran-C garbage. Firstly, _Great Work_, Larry! I too trust that you will keep us up-to-date with your observations. A few of us (including Derek, G3GRO and, I believe, Finbar, EI0CF) have been working with interference cancellers of various sorts. I have had great success with a canceller based on a design by VK5BR. Details of my experiences when using a canceller (to deal with local electrical noise) can be found at: http://www.alg.demon.co.uk/radio/136/noise_can.htm Also, a paper written by Derek, G3GRO entitled 'A Simple Signal Canceller For 136Khz To Combat Loran or Other Noise Sources' can be found at: http://www.btinternet.com/~raheesom/carc/html/arc07.htm Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11323 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2000 23:39:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Feb 2000 23:39:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Jm23-00081r-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 23:32:55 +0000 Received: from host.king.igs.net ([216.58.2.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Jm22-00081m-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 23:32:54 +0000 Received: from server1 (ttyC45.king.igs.net [216.58.2.173]) by host.king.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id SAA84059 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 18:32:44 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kayser@king.igs.net) Message-ID: <005101bf75b1$756c5b80$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Larry's receiving tests Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 18:32:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Steve: Thank You for the input, more grist for my old eyes to work on hi. DCF39 has just faded down to nil here at 200002122330 utc Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22994 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2000 00:19:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Feb 2000 00:19:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JmfR-0008La-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 00:13:37 +0000 Received: from sand6.global.net.uk ([195.147.246.105]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12JmfQ-0008LV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 00:13:36 +0000 Received: from pf5s10a07.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.234.246] helo=howett) by sand6.global.net.uk.noc.gxn.net with smtp (Exim 3.03 #1) id 12JmhK-0004tZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 00:15:35 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Comments: Authenticated sender is From: howett@mail.globalnet.co.uk To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 00:13:55 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: G3LDO heard(seen?) In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.19991112171539.080f3c40@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Saw G3LDO calling CQ using slow cw on 137.630 at approx. 2310z tonight 12.02.2000, a rock-solid signal 30dB above next door's washing machine here near Coventry. Not DX judging by what I have read on the reflector, but quite pleasing to know my fledgling (Rx) system is actually working! ( and since you didn't seem to get a reply, I can assure you your Tx is working as well, Peter!) Seriously, I would be very grateful for any advice on what I should be able to hear (see) so that I can judge the efficacy of my setup, and hopefully set goals for improvement. Current equipment is - 1.5m x 1.5m square tuned loop in roofspace, MOSFET tuned RF amplifier with 4 tuned circuits, NE612 converter with 10.0000 MHz xtal osc (very easy for frequency readout) into TS130SE (no narrow IF filter) and 4 pole active RC filter with 110 Hz 6-dB bandwidth. Hope to be QRV myself in next couple of weeks, but only QRP - so stateside stations may experience difficulty with my signal! 73 de Paul, G4MD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8036 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2000 11:31:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Feb 2000 11:31:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Jx7c-0004yS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 11:23:24 +0000 Received: from mb07.swip.net ([193.12.122.211]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Jx7b-0004yN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 11:23:23 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer (d212-151-63-13.swipnet.se [212.151.63.13]) by mb07.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA22500; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 12:20:16 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <005c01bf7614$faba4c80$0d3f97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, lowfer@qth.net Subject: LF: Pictures from 7S6SAJ, part 2... Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 12:25:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I forgot to include the URL in my previous message. Sorry.. Here it is: http://radio.se-swed.net/136khz/ 73 Johan From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10446 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2000 11:34:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Feb 2000 11:34:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Jx5h-0004yL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 11:21:25 +0000 Received: from mb07.swip.net ([193.12.122.211]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Jx5g-0004yG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 11:21:24 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer (d212-151-63-13.swipnet.se [212.151.63.13]) by mb07.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA21123; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 12:18:15 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <004a01bf7614$b36dbc40$0d3f97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, lowfer@qth.net Subject: LF: Pictures from 7S6SAJ expedition Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 12:22:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello All, SM6CJJ, Jan, has put up a web page with some photos from our LF expedition 7S6SAJ. Swedish text :-( 73 de Johan, SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29985 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2000 22:18:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Feb 2000 22:18:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12K7B1-0001Oe-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 22:07:35 +0000 Received: from tantalum.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.80]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12K7Ay-0001OZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 22:07:32 +0000 Received: from [213.1.166.145] (helo=default) by tantalum.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12K7AW-0001zL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 22:07:04 +0000 Message-ID: <000301bf766e$02bec4c0$91a601d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for 12/13 Feb at GB7DXM Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 22:00:40 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, it seemed to me that the noise was fairly low and conditions quite good this weekend. Unfortunately the weather was definitely 'garden clearing weather' as well...but that didn't seem to impede some stations. DJ5BV was a steady consistant signal all weekend. I also have a suspicion that Mike has been breathing hard on his aerial again as he was at times 3dB stronger than I usually hear him, and the loop was pointing slightly North of Welwyn GC. Sunday A good start, Toni HB2ASB copied in ssb filter on the speaker giving 579 to John G4GVC, and 'apologising' for still being on the 'chaos' aerial....if that's what it takes I guess several of us could do with a little chaos!! I heard John call IK5ZPV and I could see the trace on the screen but could not quite copy the signal from Valerio. It would have been a definte 'O' with me on QRS. I hung onto John's coat tails and heard him make a marginal qso with Wolf DL1SAN at 339, unfortunately though I again could see Wolf's trace on the waterfall display (again 'O' on QRS) I could not quite copy his morse. The next one was a trace from I5MXX as John called him at 1241z. The interesting point was that several times during the day I saw weak traces looking like a cq in length and several qsos that did not bring up any G stations calling (my loop was favouring S.Germany and OE) Later on during a break from the greenhouse I heard the end of a qso between John and Derek G3GRO, and as they finished up popped Geri (DK8KW) spot on that frequency working I5MXX, Derek tried hard but was not making the trip. I also copied a very nice 'O' transmission from DF8ZR working DJ5AO on DFCW. I could see no sign of DJ5AO on 'gram. I have a .JPG file of the last over if DF8ZR is interested. DJ5BV obviously didn't decode it as he called on hand speed over DJ5AO. It was an interesting weekend, and it goes to show that a good wire does beat a 1.2m indoor loop.....but not by much( I guess I'm giving away 3-6dB to John at most) .....and its easy to have a lot of fun with the number of signals that there are around now. There was a good cluster posting list this weekend...and I haven't seen Boris in any of your reports yet!! As last week I will filter any list from Wolf (DL1SAN) and post any spots not propagated to GB7DXM G3NYK de GB7DXM 13-Feb 2112Z > 136.8 HB2ASB 13-Feb-2000 2045Z 1st qso S5/hb9 569/349 137.0 I5TGC 13-Feb-2000 1833Z cq 559 with 15mw erp 137.0 DJ5BV 13-Feb-2000 1250Z CQ CQ no takers 136.8 G3YXM 13-Feb-2000 0945Z 539 cq 137.2 S57A 13-Feb-2000 0938Z cq 579 ale' Boris! 136.8 G3YXM 13-Feb-2000 0945Z 539 cq 137.0 I5TGC 13-Feb-2000 0944Z 569 136.3 G4GVC 13-Feb-2000 0930Z 439 calling hb2asb 136.2 HB2ASB 13-Feb-2000 0928Z 569 in qso with g3yxm 439 136.7 G3LDO 13-Feb-2000 0914Z 559 136.7 IK5ZPV 13-Feb-2000 0813Z cq 137.7 I5TGC 12-Feb-2000 1756Z slow cw 569 fb 137.0 G3AQC 12-Feb-2000 1624Z 137.3 G3XDV 12-Feb-2000 1616Z 136.6 G3OLB 12-Feb-2000 1606Z 136.9 I5MXX 12-Feb-2000 1244Z 579/559 136.4 OE5ODL 12-Feb-2000 1018Z 579 cq 137.0 IK5ZPV 11-Feb-2000 1756Z 599 136.9 DJ5BV 10-Feb-2000 1756Z 439 cq 137.0 DJ9EI 7-Feb-2000 2113Z 559 137.3 IK5ZPV 7-Feb-2000 2113Z 439 136.9 DJ9IE 7-Feb-2000 2108Z 559 cq 137.0 OE5ODL 7-Feb-2000 1752Z hr also DJ5BV G3NYK de GB7DXM 13-Feb 2114Z > 1800.0 DF8ZR 13-Feb-2000 1302Z caling dj5ao DFCW 137.7kHz 1800.0 DJ5BV 13-Feb-2000 1254Z 569 in JO02PB on 137.0kHz 1800.0 DJ5BV 12-Feb-2000 1045Z 137.1 khz cq 1800.0 PA0LEG 11-Feb-2000 0832Z 136.5 cq G3NYK de GB7DXM 13-Feb 2116Z > 73 de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11229 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2000 23:46:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Feb 2000 23:46:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12K8aC-00027V-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 23:37:40 +0000 Received: from praseodumium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12K8aA-00027O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 23:37:39 +0000 Received: from [213.1.182.180] (helo=default) by praseodumium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12K8a4-0003iV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 23:37:32 +0000 Message-ID: <004601bf767a$a473bf80$91a601d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Extra Clutser spots from Europe ...tnx Wolf Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 23:30:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: These are spots not propagated to GB7DXM which appeared on DB0MBX in southern Germany, submitted by Wolf DL1SAN 136.8 G3LDO 13-Feb-2000 1741Z 559 137.7 G3XDV 13-Feb-2000 1424Z cq slow-cw(439) 137.0 DJ5BV 12-Feb-2000 1553Z cq cq notakers 136.9 G3YXM 12-Feb-2000 1512Z 549 137.0 G3XDV 12-Feb-2000 1234Z 136.5 DK7KO 10-Feb-2000 1815Z 136.4 DL1SAN 10-Feb-2000 1755Z 539 136.6 DF6FU 8-Feb-2000 1745Z cq cq hr 449 Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1083 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2000 09:44:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Feb 2000 09:44:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KHsi-0006uZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:33:24 +0000 Received: from artemis.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.126]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KHsh-0006uT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:33:23 +0000 Received: from pc171.geog.le.ac.uk ([143.210.25.171] helo=kate) by artemis.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.03 #1) id 12KHsH-0007i6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:32:57 +0000 From: "kate moore" To: "lfgroup" Subject: LF: Brief weekend report Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:28:19 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Activity levels seemed fairly low this weekend, which was a shame as conditions were good. The only station I worked on Saturday was OE5ODL again, at 08.34UT. Sunday was better with 5 countries worked out of 8 heard. Lots of G stations are now actually reading S9 on my S-meter...... EU stations heard: PA0LEG (569), OE5ODL (559), DJ5BV (559), IK5ZPV (569), DJ5DI (559), OH3LYG (449 in daylight), DK8KW (569), HB2ASB (579), DL1SAN (339), PA0SE (579), OZ8NJ (569), I5MXX (569). New stations worked: G3DQC, DL1SAN and OZ8NJ. Regards John G4GVC near Leicester, IO92JP ** TX: Synth + 400W RF from modified 'G3YXM' Mosfet PA ** ** RX: TS-850S with 3 x CW filters and 0.5ppm TCXO ** ** Ant: Inv-L 60m long, 6m high at feed end, 12m high at far end ** From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7546 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2000 09:46:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Feb 2000 09:46:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KHvD-0006um-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:35:59 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KHvB-0006ug-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:35:57 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id JAA32284; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:36:47 GMT Received: (qmail 30306 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2000 10:32:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 14 Feb 2000 10:32:51 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id JAA16689; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:30:28 GMT Received: from unknown(146.80.11.40) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma016591; Mon, 14 Feb 00 09:30:20 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:35:04 +0000 Received: by FRN-GOLD-1 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <1K87D3NP>; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:33:00 -0000 Message-ID: <3617AC3245C2D1118A840000F805359C01206E39@PDW-MERCURY-1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: G4JNT Now back on LF Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:32:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all. After an absence of well over a year I'm now back on LF with a rebuilt transmitter (similar to G0MRF type) and 250 Watts reliably. Antenna tested out - still OK ! - but as its only a 7m high Tee is probably a bit small by modern standards on the bands. ERP estimated at -22dBW based on an antenna current of 1.5 Amps and effective height roughly equal to it's actual figure. Now using a transverter driver from an IC746 so linear modes from DSP are no problem. I'm looking for LF operators who have access to a 56002EVM board in order to try PSK08. This is my adaptation of PSK31 for use on LF but running 4 times slower. The operating signal bandwidth is in the region of 5 Hz and the data rate supports slow typing speeds - still considerably faster than Aural CW I also have an embyronic version of PSK01but this is more difficult to implement on the EVM due to the need for longer length filters. At the moment it works but has responses every 16 Hz, rolling off gradually. Frequency has to be set to within 0.2 Hz or 0.1 Hz for the QPSK mode. Frequency setting is only within 1 Hz at the moment due to the oscillator accuracy in the 746, but this is stable and I can separately calibrate to sub mHz accuracy for specific tests. Re. Michael's comment below, -29dB in what bandwidth ? Remember the 393km QSO I had back in the dark ages of LF with G3PLX on 73kHz. That used a bandwidth of 70mHz and (Very) Slow CW with a 40 second dot period. The S/N for that signal would have been in the region of -26dB in the 'normal' CW bandwidth of 300 Hz, and there were a few dB in hand. Also bear in mind that Spectrogram type reception relies on incoherent visual assessment of colour scales. Proper coherent signal integration can give probably 3 - 6 dB improvement on this - hence my interest in being able to run tests with PSK08 and PSK01. Noise levels on the band seem higher than they used to be a couple of years ago. Is this my imagination or have they really increased ? Andy G4JNT > Who has experience with <-29dB to noise level signal identification? > CoherentCW, PSK, SlowCW, dedicated DSP algotithms? There are lock-in > amplifiers using similar techniques maybe we can benifit there. > > Best 73's and gl on lf > Michael Sanders, PA3BSH > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16038 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2000 11:29:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Feb 2000 11:29:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KJZN-0007uo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:21:33 +0000 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KJZK-0007uj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:21:30 +0000 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12KJZi-0006Pm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:21:55 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:11:12 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:11:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Weekend Report 11-13 Feb X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Friday 11 February Went on 73kHz for "Friday night is activity night", and found noise level fairly low at S7. Worked M0BMU (gave 599, got 589). No-one else heard. Put out numerous normal and slow CW calls. Where was everybody? Saturday 12 February Replaced top loading coil that had been taken out so I could use the inverted-L for the topband contest. Also added 50% more turns. Previously, I had half of the inductive loading at the top of the vertical section, and half at the bottom. Now I have two-thirds at the top. Local noise noticeably lower than when all loading was at bottom. Received signals were good. G4GVC and G3YXM noticeably up. Greek RTTY was S9 all day. CFH was S7 at night. Some local noise S4/5. Very little activity. Many CQs, both on normal and slow CW went unanswered. Heard G6RO (569); G3AQC (599); G3YXM (5 9+10 9. Worked DJ5BV (gave 539, got 339) and DJ5DI (549, 439). Sunday 13 February Conditions not so good as Saturday, but noise level lower. Heard G3LDO (5 9+10 9); DK8KW (549); G3BDQ (599); HB2ASB (329; GW4ALG (589); G3YXM (5 9+10 9); G3DQC (589) in Oxford, a new one. Another new one heard was OZ8NJ (559), but he didn't reply to my calls. Worked G4GVC (599/599); GI3PDN (5 7/8 9 / 569).* Saw on Spectrogram screen QRSs from ON4ZK ('O' and S4). Also I5TGC ('T' to 'M' with deep QSB) - has anyone else in the UK seen/heard/worked this one? A puzzle is that, although I am giving reports about one S-point down on G4GVC's legendary receive system, an exception is HB2ASB who was barely audible with me in an S4 noise level when John and G3YXM were giving him S6 or S7. This is the second time I have noticed this phenomenon. I have heard (and worked) Toni before at good strength. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9371 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2000 14:28:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Feb 2000 14:28:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KMFr-0000ie-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:13:35 +0000 Received: from host.king.igs.net ([216.58.2.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KMFm-0000iX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:13:31 +0000 Received: from server1 (ttyC09.king.igs.net [216.58.2.137]) by host.king.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id JAA78033; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:13:21 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kayser@king.igs.net) Message-ID: <001001bf76f5$a68f0880$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, lowfer@qth.net Subject: LF: Contact with DDH47, Help Please Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:13:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings: We have an amazing efficiency in the Web pages regarding the test transmissions from DDH47 last Friday evening. All the announcements of this test are gone already! I would like to try and see if the company would acknowledge the 17.7 Second dash they sent at about 2249 UTC - I have a nice JPEG of it as well I could send them off the .WAV file of the event. Due to my degraded receiving system I was unable to copy their CW. Anyone who can pass me their email or Web URL will be appreciated. Thank You.... Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21784 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2000 14:36:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Feb 2000 14:36:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KMOJ-00011J-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:22:19 +0000 Received: from host.king.igs.net ([216.58.2.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KMOH-00011E-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:22:18 +0000 Received: from server1 (ttyC09.king.igs.net [216.58.2.137]) by host.king.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id JAA78515 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:22:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kayser@king.igs.net) Message-ID: <001201bf76f6$e132f9f0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: How bad my receiver was.... Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:22:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: After the excitement on Friday night I took a hard look at finding out how bad my receiving system really was. With the effort of some friends yesterday and this morning I am now able to say that my receiving system is 16 to 24 dB down from optimum. The Peak signal from DCF39 was +33dB over the noise. This signal level in a nearly dead receiver means that with a working receiver this would put us within "good shooting range" of hearing a 137 kHz amateur signal across the North Atlantic. There will be more solar storms such as that which occurred last Friday evening here in Canada. HOW do we detect these events in sufficient time to capitalize on them? I already have some G station phone numbers now. So if we know about the event we can at least get a few stations sending. How do we ensure we know about the solar event at the earliest possible moment? 73 Larry VA3LK Yes, I am already working today on a better loop RX antenna, parts are already in the mail..... From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17138 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2000 16:50:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Feb 2000 16:50:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KOU5-0002Du-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 16:36:25 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KOU2-0002Dp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 16:36:23 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA26970 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 17:36:14 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000214183358.485f6308@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 18:33:58 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: accurate signalsource MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: For some while I was looking for an easy way to calibrate the s-meter of my receiver. Sometimes the solution is that simple that it takes some time to find it : with a handfull of common parts it is possible to make a 5mV into 50 Ohms (S9+40dB) source that needs no calibration. I did built it 5 times with random parts and alway came to 5mV within 0.5dB (checked with a Rohde & Schwartz spectrumanalyzer at work) ! The principle is rather easy : with a 74HCT4060 a 5V square wave close to 136kHz is generated. The advantage of the HCT types is that they are very good 'rail to rail', so if you feed them with 5V you have an almost perfect 5V square wave. With the knowledge Mr. Fourier left us we know that a 5V square wave has a fundamental content of 2.25Veff. With a 2 resistor divider (of 1% metalfilm resistors) the signal is reduced to 5mVeff. (S9+40dB) into 50 Ohm. With the more classic 50 Ohms attenuators the signal can be further reduced to any wanted level. More informantion can be found at http://www.qsl.net/on7yd/ref136.htm 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1777 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2000 18:56:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Feb 2000 18:56:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KQPR-0003H4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 18:39:45 +0000 Received: from mail2.dada.it ([195.110.96.69] helo=mail.dada.it) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KQPP-0003Gz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 18:39:43 +0000 Received: (qmail 13265 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2000 18:39:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cestag) (195.110.103.248) by mail.dada.it with SMTP; 14 Feb 2000 18:39:25 -0000 Message-ID: <000301bf771a$d4ee3820$f8676ec3@cestag> From: "cesare tagliabue" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: R: Weekend Report 11-13 Feb Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 19:15:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mike Very happy and amazed about your report of my QRSS transmission. It is the first time that my signal has been received in UK I think. As I believe you have visited my web-page, you know that my ERP is very low, only around 15 mW or so. Waiting for a visual QSO, 73 de Cesare Cesare Tagliabue I 5 TGC e-mail: cestag@dada.it url: http://www.dadacasa.com/i5tgc -----Messaggio originale----- Da: Mike Dennison A: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Data: lunedě 14 febbraio 2000 12.52 Oggetto: LF: Weekend Report 11-13 Feb Friday 11 February Went on 73kHz for "Friday night is activity night", and found noise level fairly low at S7. Worked M0BMU (gave 599, got 589). No-one else heard. Put out numerous normal and slow CW calls. Where was everybody? Saturday 12 February Replaced top loading coil that had been taken out so I could use the inverted-L for the topband contest. Also added 50% more turns. Previously, I had half of the inductive loading at the top of the vertical section, and half at the bottom. Now I have two-thirds at the top. Local noise noticeably lower than when all loading was at bottom. Received signals were good. G4GVC and G3YXM noticeably up. Greek RTTY was S9 all day. CFH was S7 at night. Some local noise S4/5. Very little activity. Many CQs, both on normal and slow CW went unanswered. Heard G6RO (569); G3AQC (599); G3YXM (5 9+10 9. Worked DJ5BV (gave 539, got 339) and DJ5DI (549, 439). Sunday 13 February Conditions not so good as Saturday, but noise level lower. Heard G3LDO (5 9+10 9); DK8KW (549); G3BDQ (599); HB2ASB (329; GW4ALG (589); G3YXM (5 9+10 9); G3DQC (589) in Oxford, a new one. Another new one heard was OZ8NJ (559), but he didn't reply to my calls. Worked G4GVC (599/599); GI3PDN (5 7/8 9 / 569).* Saw on Spectrogram screen QRSs from ON4ZK ('O' and S4). Also I5TGC ('T' to 'M' with deep QSB) - has anyone else in the UK seen/heard/worked this one? A puzzle is that, although I am giving reports about one S-point down on G4GVC's legendary receive system, an exception is HB2ASB who was barely audible with me in an S4 noise level when John and G3YXM were giving him S6 or S7. This is the second time I have noticed this phenomenon. I have heard (and worked) Toni before at good strength. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21718 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2000 20:05:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Feb 2000 20:05:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KRb4-0003y2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 19:55:50 +0000 Received: from mta01.talk21.com ([62.172.192.171] helo=t21mta01-app.talk21.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KRb3-0003xx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 19:55:49 +0000 Received: from dave ([213.1.20.112]) by t21mta01-app.talk21.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20000214195840.VKZG6201.t21mta01-app.talk21.com@dave> for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 19:58:40 +0000 Message-ID: <001501bf7725$6d21f320$701401d5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: Weekend Report 11-13 Feb Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 19:49:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Mike Dennison wrote: >A puzzle is that, although I am giving reports >about one S-point down on G4GVC's legendary >receive system, an exception is HB2ASB who was >barely audible with me in an S4 noise level when >John and G3YXM were giving him S6 or S7. This is >the second time I have noticed this phenomenon. I >have heard (and worked) Toni before at good >strength. I also found Toni's signal barely copyable Sunday morning when John and Dave were giving him good reports, something I have also experienced before. Whatever the state of Toni's chaos antenna at the time, I was surprised this evening(Monday) around 1900z to suddenly hear Toni coming out of my receiver at 569 calling CQ on 137.0 while I was in the other room. Conditions on 136 are variable indeed! 73s Dave dsergeant@iee.org http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18010 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2000 05:09:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Feb 2000 05:09:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ka7E-0008OO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 05:01:36 +0000 Received: from ds-img-2.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.135] helo=spdmgaab.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ka7D-0008OJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 05:01:35 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.8) id AAA23333 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 00:01:24 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 00:00:56 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: How bad my receiver was.... To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200002150001_MC2-992A-9956@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Lowfers, just read that Larry, VA3LK works on further improving his receiving station after having been able to hear DCF39 33 dB above the noise last weekend. If we find a reliable way to find out, when solar flares occur, we have a real good chance of crossing the Atlantic even with our small ERP signals. I know that Peter, DF3LP, was able to observe a flare the other day when he recorded a constant signal of an LF time signal (HBG75 on 75 kHz). The receiving level suddenly wend up by 10 or 15 dB above the normal and then dropped slowly down to normal within half an hour or so. If we combine a receiver's AGC voltage output to a voltage gate switch that is connected to a bell, we should be able to have an alarm go off to indicate, that conditions are above normal. I still have a spare MV61 level meter with a voltage output in the 0 to 2 Volt range and will connect it to a voltage recorder. Lets see, if we can correlate sudden increases of signal strength to occurances on the sun. Vaino, you are quite experienced in recording field strenght data. Any comment on that? Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6443 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2000 05:21:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Feb 2000 05:21:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KaFQ-000030-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 05:10:04 +0000 Received: from as-img-6.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.151] helo=spamgaaf.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KaFP-00002v-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 05:10:03 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaaf.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.8) id AAA01556 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 00:09:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 00:09:43 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Contact with DDH47, Help Please To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200002150009_MC2-992A-99AF@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry, >Anyone who can pass me their email or Web URL will be appreciated. try http://www.marinefunker.de best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) http://www.qru.de BTW: "Funker" in German means "sparker", we hams are "Funkamateure", directly translated: "spark-amateurs". Since I run a longwave TX, I know why we Germany have chosen that name ... From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24144 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2000 07:35:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Feb 2000 07:35:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KcMG-00018C-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 07:25:16 +0000 Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KcMF-000186-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 07:25:15 +0000 Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.53) with SMTP id 04185384 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 08:24:53 +0100 (MET) X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: <38AA2759.99BD6B14@phonakcom.ch> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 20:28:09 -0800 From: "Toni Baertschi" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: S57A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >>From HB2ASB, JN36pt Sunday we had bad wx with rain and storm and I had to go qrt after my top load was catched by a tree (sri John). But the evening was calm and I had a short qso with S57A. His signal was weak, only 349, and we exchanged only call signs and reports. Has anybody info's about this station - power, antenna and location? Who had already a qso with S57A? 73 de Toni From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18262 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2000 08:42:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Feb 2000 08:42:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KdRK-0001WV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 08:34:34 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from ds9.sci.fi ([195.74.0.54]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KdRI-0001WP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 08:34:32 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from default (CMXXIV.tdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.81.124]) by ds9.sci.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA29914 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:34:15 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000215103422.007c3100@laatikko.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@laatikko.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:34:22 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: Signal Strength Measurements by OH2LX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Measurements of UK Decca's and some other stations : ---------------------------------------------------------- Day ------------------ 09Feb 10Feb 12Feb 13Feb 14Feb Time, UTC ------------ 2240- 2140- 2140- 2145- 2200- ---------------------------------------------------------- kHz Ch *d,km AZI* *Indicated ESH2 input, dBmW* ---------------------------------------------------------- 127.8 (6C), 1435, 280, -107 -111 -107 -102 -103 ---------------------------------------------------------- 126.7 (2A), 1565, 269, -106 -115 -106 -105 -105 ---------------------------------------------------------- 128.5 (8E), 1766, 276, -104 -113 -103 -105 -110 ---------------------------------------------------------- 127.0 (3B), 1871, 257, -121 -113 -114 -108 -118 ---------------------------------------------------------- 127.5 (5B), 1890, 247, -102 -107 -106 -113 -112 ---------------------------------------------------------- 128.2 (7D), 2060, 267, -115 -119 -118 -117 -119 ---------------------------------------------------------- 126.4 (1B), 2282, 253, -112 -119 -115 -115 -122 ---------------------------------------------------------- kHz Ch *d,km AZI* *Indicated ESH2 input, dBmW* ---------------------------------------------------------- 128.93 ref, 1553, 228, -78 -82 -80 -84 -82 ---------------------------------------------------------- 138.83 ref 1221, 226, -85 -82 -80 -85 -82 ---------------------------------------------------------- 135.8 SXV 2490, 182, -111 -105 -107 -105 -104 ---------------------------------------------------------- 137.0 CFH* 5750, 295, -126 -130 -126 -127 -129 ---------------------------------------------------------- * Record *S* for CFH: 13Feb, 2208z = 119 dBuW ---------------------------------------------------------- OH3LYG 120, 333, -107 -104 ---------------------------------------------------------- OH1BS 161, 268, -113 -114 ---------------------------------------------------------- 10Feb 2113: SM6PXJ -124 (d=630km) 10Feb 2113: OH1BS -121 (d=161km) 12Feb 2121: OZ5NJ -128 (d=885km) 13Feb 2210: G3LDO -130 (d=1908km) 14Feb 2226: I5MXX -126 (d=2200??km) Give your LOC's!! ---------------------------------------------------------- (R&S ESH2/---- 10m coax---/1:10/---15m wire-----): Noise level with antenna: with 200Hz IF BandWidth: -24..-22 dB(uV), -131..-129dBmW (varies w qrm etc) ---------------------------------------------------------- End of message of 15 Feb 2000, 0840 UTC, from OH2LX ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8803 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2000 10:00:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Feb 2000 10:00:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KeeR-0002CA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 09:52:11 +0000 Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.36]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KeeO-0002C5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 09:52:09 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.6f.129f7ee (4313) for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 04:51:26 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <6f.129f7ee.25da7b9e@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 04:51:26 EST Subject: Re: LF: G4JNT Now back on LF To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 137 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 2/14/00 10:44:37 GMT Daylight Time, ACTALBOT@dera.gov.uk writes: << I'm looking for LF operators who have access to a 56002EVM board in order to try PSK08. This is my adaptation of PSK31 for use on LF but running 4 times slower. The operating signal bandwidth is in the region of 5 Hz and the data rate supports slow typing speeds >> Hello Andy / group Yes I have one of the Motorola boards. 3 other LF'ers and I have DDS transmit drive sources which have a direct BPSK modulator. The modulator input pin sits at 6V ( half rail) and produces one phase between 0-6V and 180 degrees between 6 and 12V. I would need to adapt the EVM PSK08 code for this direct modulation scheme. The discs are in the post. May see you, and others from the group, if you are visiting the VHF convention at Sandown Park this Sunday. 73 David From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13771 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2000 12:00:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Feb 2000 12:00:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KgVI-00033l-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:50:52 +0000 Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KgVE-00033g-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:50:48 +0000 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #35) id 12KgU0-0006CW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:49:33 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:37:11 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:37:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Re: Weekend Report 11-13 Feb In-reply-to: <001501bf7725$6d21f320$701401d5@dave> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Mike Dennison wrote: > >A puzzle is that, although I am giving reports > >about one S-point down on G4GVC's legendary > >receive system, an exception is HB2ASB who was > >barely audible with me in an S4 noise level when > >John and G3YXM were giving him S6 or S7. This is > >the second time I have noticed this phenomenon. I > >have heard (and worked) Toni before at good > >strength. > > I also found Toni's signal barely copyable Sunday morning when John and > Dave were giving him good reports, something I have also experienced > before. Whatever the state of Toni's chaos antenna at the time, I was > surprised this evening(Monday) around 1900z to suddenly hear Toni coming > out of my receiver at 569 calling CQ on 137.0 while I was in the other > room. Conditions on 136 are variable indeed! > > 73s Dave > dsergeant@iee.org > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd > This sort of variable signal over quite short distances has been reported before on signals where sky-wave is present (G to Scandinavia, HB, and I). As G4GVC and G3YXM are 150+km further North than G3YMC and myself, perhaps the answer is that the ground wave and sky wave combined to enhance Toni's signal in the Midlands, but to cancel it in the London area. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20157 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2000 15:16:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Feb 2000 15:16:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KjUb-0004ae-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:02:21 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.41] helo=pyyhe.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KjUX-0004aZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:02:17 +0000 Received: from default (MMDVII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.44.107]) by pyyhe.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA23883 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 17:12:57 +0200 (EET) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000215170209.00802c90@laatikko.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: oh2lx@laatikko.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 17:02:09 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: Re: LF: How bad my receiver was.... In-reply-to: <200002150001_MC2-992A-9956@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: About short or long period signal level recordings Any stable, preferably calibrated, selective rf level meter should be useful for short period signal strength variation checks. Or even for long time recordings, providing there is a convenient "AGC" voltage output available as a function of input rf voltage. In the 1970's we at the Monitoring station attempted to use slightly modified Icom-R70 and R71 receivers but it proved difficult to stabilize the AGC voltage picked up from selected test points in rx AGC circuitry. Also, the lowest indicated *S* level was excessively large, around 20..30 dBuV. A bus controlled R&S ESH3 was used for 24h VLF/LF/MF/HF Field strength measurements during 1989-1999, with a *CCIR* type commecial, 1 m long active monopole placed in a open field. Rf pick-up by long 3/4" coax cable was cut with ferrite rings. A description of *CCIR* measuring system is on the ITU-R Docs. I must be lucky to have an extremely useful but expensive R&S ESH2 test receiver available now at home, while retired. Hope that my Decca etc signal strength reports have given some ideas of day to day variation, even with such a point checks. At the moment I test using a small Pico (Picotechnics Ltd) AD converter fed from ESH2 recorder voltage output into LPT1. Below about 400..500 kHz the noise from PC is excessively high. Pico DOS & Windows data logging, scope etc software are useful. There have been different opinions on the use of absolute versus relative indicated and logged input level values. In case of real measuring receiver like ESH2 the use of relative power level (dBm, I write it dBmW) is justifiable. Like most measuring rx's, ESH2 meter is calibrated in dBuV. In my case: add +20 dB for approximate LF field strength About *SID* effect: I sent Geri some pictures of selected SID effects on LF ground wave and/or ionospheric signals. May suggest that in most cases *hard X-rays* produced in a solar flare, the indicated LF levels may increase but as shown in these examples the opposite can frequently happen. 73 de Vaino, OH2LX At 00:00 15.2.2000 -0500, Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) wrote: > >just read that Larry, VA3LK works on further improving his receiving >station after having been able to hear DCF39 33 dB above the noise last >weekend. > >If we find a reliable way to find out, when solar flares occur, we have a >real good chance of crossing the Atlantic even with our small ERP signals. >I know that Peter, DF3LP, was able to observe a flare the other day when he >recorded a constant signal of an LF time signal (HBG75 on 75 kHz). The >receiving level suddenly wend up by 10 or 15 dB above the normal and then >dropped slowly down to normal within half an hour or so. If we combine a >receiver's AGC voltage output to a voltage gate switch that is connected to >a bell, we should be able to have an alarm go off to indicate, that >conditions are above normal. > >I still have a spare MV61 level meter with a voltage output in the 0 to 2 >Volt range and will connect it to a voltage recorder. Lets see, if we can >correlate sudden increases of signal strength to occurances on the sun. >Vaino, you are quite experienced in recording field strenght data. Any >comment on that? > >Best 73 Geri ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18314 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2000 08:07:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Feb 2000 08:07:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KzMC-0003Y2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 07:58:44 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from server.italway.it ([193.70.27.5] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12KzMB-0003Xx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 07:58:43 +0000 Received: from allstars (access19.italway.it [193.70.27.118]) by server.italway.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA21269 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 08:50:15 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20000216090358.00695fe0@mail.italway.it> X-Sender: i5mxx@mail.italway.it (Unverified) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) [I] Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 09:03:58 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "i5mxx - Marzio" Subject: Re: LF: S57A In-reply-to: <38AA2759.99BD6B14@phonakcom.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Toni! I just received qsl from S57A concerning our 22 Jan qso ( first I/S5), wich i gave him 519. Boris declared 200 W and Inv L antenna , 17 metrs vertical and 23 meters horizontal. Locator is JN65TW. But i contacted again S57A last saturday and heard him also several times CQing during last sunday, with really better signals (559) so i think he improved something. 73 de Marzio I5MXX In 20.28 15/02/00 -0800, hai scritto: >>>From HB2ASB, JN36pt > >Sunday we had bad wx with rain and storm and I had to go qrt after my >top load was catched by a tree (sri John). But the evening was calm and >I had a short qso with S57A. His signal was weak, only 349, and we >exchanged only call signs and reports. Has anybody info's about this >station - power, antenna and location? Who had already a qso with S57A? > >73 de Toni > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17022 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2000 09:27:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Feb 2000 09:27:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12L0YZ-0004Bq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 09:15:35 +0000 Received: from artemis.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.126]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12L0YW-0004Bl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 09:15:33 +0000 Received: from pc171.geog.le.ac.uk ([143.210.25.171] helo=kate) by artemis.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.03 #1) id 12L0YO-0001LM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 09:15:24 +0000 From: "kate moore" To: "lfgroup" Subject: LF: Observations Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 09:10:31 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Congratulations to Larry, Bob and the others for the interesting observations of European signals over the weekend. From the amateur signals I heard and worked, conditions were much enhanced, coinciding with a very high A-index. What would be particularly useful now would be to continue carefully monitoring these signals, using the experience gained, so a picture of 'average' trans-Atlantic propagation on these frequencies can be built up, and usable peaks and enhancements predicted with some confidence. Let's hope we still have a good few weeks before the increase in static levels makes this work more difficult. Keep up the good work, guys. ------------------- Mike G3XDV wrote: >A puzzle is that, although I am giving reports >about one S-point down on G4GVC's legendary >receive system, an exception is HB2ASB who was >barely audible with me in an S4 noise level when >John and G3YXM were giving him S6 or S7. This is >the second time I have noticed this phenomenon. I >have heard (and worked) Toni before at good >strength. and Steve GW4ALG wrote: > I also found Toni's signal barely copyable Sunday morning when John and > Dave were giving him good reports, something I have also experienced > before. This is what I alluded to briefly last week. >From my own careful observations I have noticed quite large variations in the strength of the more distant amateur signals on 136kHz. These variations seem to change over quite small geagraphical distances. There are times when I seem to be the only G station calling/working a DX station; at other times I can hardly (or cannot) hear the station another G is working. Obviously others are noticing the same effect, although it seems partly dependant on the types of antennas in use at each end of the path. It has also seemed particularly marked over the last few weeks, but this might be complicated by the increase in activity and us becoming more familiar with signals over the longer paths. A few more examples: - On Feb 5th I worked Toni HB2ASB at 08.12UT, giving him a 569 report. Not much more than half an hour later, I heard G6RO calling Toni and (I think it was) PA0SE working him, but could hear nothing whatsoever of Toni, and suspect I had just been calling CQ on his frequency! (Sorry). - Last Sunday (13th) at 11.12UT OZ8NJ replied to my CQ and I gave him a 569 report. Immediately afterwards Ray GI3PDN called me and commented that he could not hear Niels, despite having worked him previously. Later in the afternoon I heard I5MXX work OZ8NJ; Niels was then barely RST-339 here but Marzio was an excellent signal. - Dave G3YXM runs rather more power than me into a fairly traditional top-loaded vertical which is around half as high again as my antenna. As would be expected, Dave usually gets reports at least an S-point better than I do. However, on two separate occasions recently (although not last Sunday) I have found myself calling Toni at the same time, on exactly the same frequency as Dave, when Toni has replied to me first. This is particularly interesting: although my antenna is loosely configured as an inverted-L, only about 4m of it is exactly vertical. The rest is predominantly horizontal, sloping gently upwards to the far end. Although it is reasonably long, it is made from a single very thin wire, so has quite low capacitance to ground. There is little doubt in my mind that with this antenna I am often able to capitalize on the large amounts of skywave that seem to be present on many amateur signals on 136kHz, and that this skywave causes marked differences in signal strengths over quite small distances. We still have a lot to learn on LF when it comes to (relatively) low power and small (in terms of wavelength) antennas....... and of course that is exactly what AMATEUR radio is all about. Regards John G4GVC near Leicester, IO92JP ** TX: Synth + 400W RF from modified 'G3YXM' Mosfet PA ** ** RX: TS-850S with 3 x CW filters and 0.5ppm TCXO ** ** Ant: Inv-L 60m long, 6m high at feed end, 12m high at far end ** Kate Moore mek@le.ac.uk Department of Geography University of Leicester Leicester LE1 7RH UK Tel: 0116 252 3855 http://www.geog.le.ac.uk/mek From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8909 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2000 11:50:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Feb 2000 11:50:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12L2pf-0005LM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 11:41:23 +0000 Received: from cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.173]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12L2pb-0005LH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 11:41:19 +0000 Received: from modem-100.carcharoth.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.145.228] helo=lvm) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12L2pQ-0005gg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 11:41:08 +0000 Message-ID: <000201bf7872$bb1e6740$e491883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re SIDs and Transatlantic Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 11:40:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Extract from Daily Telegraph today:-
"A recent Sun flare that has caused a radio blackout has prompted scientists to warn that the Earth will be most at risk from the effects of space weather later this year.....Just after the latest flare the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory recorded the dramatic ejection of material......The Flare on February 5,caused a radio blackout for about an hour.In extreme cases,such storms can induce currents in the Earth and oceans that can interfere with or even damage power transmission equipment.Solar forcaster Essi Ellis said that disruptions will become more common as the solar cycle picks up with a peak expected in mid-2000".
 So can we assume that the exceptional conditions reported by Larry Kaiser were related to this Flare on 5 feb.if so there is a delay of one week between the event and the change in propagation! is this unique or has it been observed before?Usually SIDs appear to be associated with increased D layer absorbtion and consequent radio blackouts.Perhaps there is another mechanism in the recovery of the ionosphere from such an event which results in the dramatic improvement in propagation noted by Larry.There must be something about all this in the literature?and it would certainly help to know how long after a flare some changes can be expected.At any rate from the forecasts our best chances are  yet to come in mid -2000,so keep up the good work,Larry and all. 73s Laurie. .
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2507 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2000 12:58:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Feb 2000 12:58:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12L3uM-0005uJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 12:50:18 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12L3uI-0005uE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 12:50:14 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA138810 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 13:50:06 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000216144750.094f550e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 14:47:50 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re SIDs and Transatlantic In-reply-to: <000201bf7872$bb1e6740$e491883e@lvm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >So can we assume that the exceptional conditions reported by Larry Kaiser were >related to this Flare on 5 feb.if so there is a delay of one week between the >event and the change in propagation! is this unique or has it been observed >before? The MDE (or shortwave blackout) is caused by particles (from the sun) that travel at much slower speed than light. Delays of 24h and more between the (visual) occurence of a flare and MDE are common. >Usually SIDs appear to be associated with increased D layer absorbtion and >consequent radio blackouts.Perhaps there is another mechanism in the recovery >of the ionosphere from such an event which results in the dramatic improvement >in propagation noted by Larry. Increased D-layer absorption is causing the 'blackout' on HF. Some theories say that under extreme conditions the ionisation of the D-layer can be that strong that it will reflect LF (and eventually MF) instead of absorb it. I remind an article in CQ-DL (somewhere in the 80's) that handles about this and it even mentioned QSO's between Germany and Malta (abt. 2000km) at noon (during summer) on 1.8MHz during a strong MDE. In the past I have noted increased signalstrengths (on 136kHz) from northern Europe (OH and SM) whan the A-index was high. At the same time signalstrengths from southern Europe (I) was hardly affected. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13359 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2000 14:14:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Feb 2000 14:14:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12L54p-0006VD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 14:05:11 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12L54l-0006V8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 14:05:07 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id OAA27490; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 14:06:26 GMT Received: (qmail 14273 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2000 15:02:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 16 Feb 2000 15:02:22 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id NAA28911; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 13:59:48 GMT Received: from unknown(146.80.11.40) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma028818; Wed, 16 Feb 00 13:59:28 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 14:04:59 +0000 Received: by FRN-GOLD-1 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <1K871G7P>; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 14:02:39 -0000 Message-ID: <3617AC3245C2D1118A840000F805359C01206E4B@PDW-MERCURY-1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "'LF Group'" Subject: LF: Preferred freqs Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 14:02:41 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: As I've been away from this reflector for a year and lost touch with the LF scene, are there preferred freqs for any mode - apart that is from sitting between Loran spurs. In other words is there a BANDPLAN yet ? I intend transmitting / beaconing using PSK08 to some overseas listeners and don't want to sit on top of anyone. To anyone listening this will sound like a fast fading carrier; on a spectrogram display it will appear as two carriers spaced by 7.8125 Hz when idling and a broad signal of 8 Hz bandwidth when sending data. Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15524 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2000 14:37:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Feb 2000 14:37:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12L5OW-0006dh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 14:25:32 +0000 Received: from as-img-6.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.151] helo=spamgaaf.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12L5OS-0006dZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 14:25:29 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaaf.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.8) id JAA04934 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 09:24:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 09:24:25 -0500 From: "Holger 'Geri', DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Preferred freqs To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200002160924_MC2-996A-EABF@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Andy, welcome back! If you have a look to http://www.qru.de/bandplan.htm you will find a "homemade" bandplan, based on observations and discussions we had in Windsor the other day (night?). You see two segments that would be perfect for "beaconing": below 136.000 kHz (we have chose that segment, because here within Europ there is much QRM, so we thought this might be a perfect place to park beacons for field-strength measurements without the danger of interfering with someone). The other segment is the "Analog- and Digital Mode"sSegment, that we also have used already for PSK31, HELL, RTTY, etc. between 137.300 and 137.600 kHz. Can you tell me more about PSK08, Andy? What kind of harware/software would I need ($?). Thanks, best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) http://www.qru.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17446 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2000 16:37:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Feb 2000 16:37:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12L7KN-0007gO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 16:29:23 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12L7KI-0007gJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 16:29:19 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id QAA09394; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 16:30:38 GMT Received: (qmail 231 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2000 17:26:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 16 Feb 2000 17:26:33 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id QAA20800; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 16:23:59 GMT Received: from unknown(146.80.11.40) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma020765; Wed, 16 Feb 00 16:23:41 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 16:29:54 +0000 Received: by FRN-GOLD-1 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <1K871JKQ>; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 16:27:34 -0000 Message-ID: <3617AC3245C2D1118A840000F805359C01206E4D@PDW-MERCURY-1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Preferred freqs Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 16:27:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > PSK08 is a modification to the PSK31 data waveform, now very popular > on HF, but operating at a quarter of the signalling rate, ie. 7.8 > Bits/s. I modified G3PLX's software for the Motorola 56002EVM board > to generate this mode and use it with a version of his Windows driver > software for PSK31. > > To operate, you will need an EVM board, available from a number of > suppliers - UK prices range from around Ł120 upwards. Unfortunately > this board is now obsolete as Motorola no longer make it, but there > are good stocks still among the suppliers and no doubt an improved > replacement will be available soon although this will need some > software to be rewritten. A copy of the PSK08 software has gone to > Ko Versteeg NL9222 and he intends placing this on his website soon. > > In use, it looks exactly like PSK31 - at least the EVM version of the > mode - except running much slower. The tuning waterfall display does > not function properly, but if the mode becomes popular on LF hopefully > it may be possible to persuade G3PLX to modify the driver prog for the > PC to accommodate this. You will need to be able to set frequency > accurately to 1 Hz although much of the fine frequency setting can be > done by software. > > A linear transmitter such as a transverter and G0MRF type PA will of > course be necessary. > > Andy G4JNT > > ---------- > From: Holger 'Geri', DK8KW[SMTP:DK8KW@compuserve.com] > Can you tell me more about PSK08, Andy? What kind of > harware/software would > I need ($?). > > Thanks, best 73 > > Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1401 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2000 18:20:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Feb 2000 18:20:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12L8m9-0008Kb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 18:02:09 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from ds9.sci.fi ([195.74.0.54]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12L8m5-0008KW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 18:02:06 +0000 Received: from default (MLXXXIX.rdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.136.189]) by ds9.sci.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA15391 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:01:54 +0200 (EET) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000216200202.008642e0@laatikko.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: oh2lx@laatikko.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:02:02 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: Re: LF: Re SIDs and Transatlantic In-reply-to: <000201bf7872$bb1e6740$e491883e@lvm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LF folks, SID effects are mainly caused by solar EM radiation and D region effects by hard X-rays. So they travel with about the same speed than visible light does. SID's are labelled according to observation method involved. SWF's are observed on low HF measurements. Of those SID's of interest to LF community SPA (Sudden Phase Anomaly) is normally obscure for us. SES (Sudden Enhancement of Signal) is known to VLF people but can be detected on LF quite often. A good part of LF group consists of veterans, so most of you know all this better than I know... I need some advice, please: Have been trying to record LF signal levels with ESH2 DC rec output connected to Pica ADC on LPT1. Funny things happen: - Using Pica DOS software results of abt 20 dB less (extra) noise level than Pica Windows software. Don't remember any explanations for that... Sort of analogous to using Gram (Windows) or Specgram (DOS) on audio scanning via SB. Can only use Specgram on freqs lower than 500 kHz. The ESH2 -> LPT1 cable is too long (3 m) and is a normal thin 50 ohm coax. Any advice how to cut at least some of the noise? Any optical isolators for DC? 73 de Vaino, OH2LX ----- LAWRENCE MAYHEAD wrote: --------------------------------------------------------- Extract from Daily Telegraph today:- "A recent Sun flare that has caused a radio blackout has prompted scientists to warn that the Earth will be most at risk from the effects of space weather later this year.....Just after the latest flare the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory recorded the dramatic ejection of material......The Flare on February 5,caused a radio blackout for about an hour.In extreme cases,such storms can induce currents in the Earth and oceans that can interfere with or even damage power transmission equipment.Solar forcaster Essi Ellis said that disruptions will become more common as the solar cycle picks up with a peak expected in mid-2000". So can we assume that the exceptional conditions reported by Larry Kaiser were related to this Flare on 5 feb.if so there is a delay of one week between the event and the change in propagation! is this unique or has it been observed before?Usually SIDs appear to be associated with increased D layer absorbtion and consequent radio blackouts.Perhaps there is another mechanism in the recovery of the ionosphere from such an event which results in the dramatic improvement in propagation noted by Larry.There must be something about all this in the literature?and it would certainly help to know how long after a flare some changes can be expected.At any rate from the forecasts our best chances are yet to come in mid -2000,so keep up the good work,Larry and all. 73s Laurie. . ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7568 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2000 18:24:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Feb 2000 18:24:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12L8yP-0008WV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 18:14:49 +0000 Received: from [199.172.152.110] (helo=gigi.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12L8yO-0008WO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 18:14:48 +0000 Received: from magic.excite.com ([199.172.148.161]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.31a 201-229-119-114) with ESMTP id <20000216181437.GJY492.gigi.excite.com@magic.excite.com> for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:14:37 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <31069727.950724876989.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:14:36 -0800 (PST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Folded dipoles and meander antennas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.1.48.106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, There was an article in Technical Topics, RadCom August 1999, where efficient short meander antennas are described. I am thinking of changing the top of my T antenna to a folded dipole or perhaps multiple folds (zig zagging backwards and forwards to improve the top loading and move the current antinode higher up the vertical. The idea is that the folds should be in series rather than parallel. With 5 lengths of 100 metres or 10 lengths of 50 metres, one could have a quarter wave up in the sky. Does anyone have access to a program or can point me to one, which would allow me to model an antenna of this type? 73s John, G4CNN. _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freeworld.excite.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4595 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2000 18:25:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Feb 2000 18:25:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12L8vB-0008W2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 18:11:29 +0000 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl ([195.121.6.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12L8vA-0008Uq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 18:11:28 +0000 Received: from nl9222tvtref.nl ([195.121.220.248]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA115D for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 19:10:21 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: psk08~Prefered freqs X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 19:08:34 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <7735E8723FD.AAA115D@smtp03.wxs.nl> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >A copy of the PSK08 software has gone to >Ko Versteeg NL9222 and he intends placing this on >his website soon. The software for PSK08 is online at: http://members.tripod.lycos.nl/NL9222/software.htm 73 de Ko. NL9222.. *JO22KF* 52°13'45 N 04°52'30 E Active URL's : http://leden.tref.nl/~nl9222tv/ http://home.wanadoo.nl/nl9222/index.htm http://members.tripod.lycos.nl/NL9222/index.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17231 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2000 18:40:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Feb 2000 18:40:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12L9BB-000029-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 18:28:01 +0000 Received: from fortune-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.203] helo=fortune.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12L9B9-00001t-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 18:28:00 +0000 Received: from magic.excite.com ([199.172.148.161]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.31a 201-229-119-114) with ESMTP id <20000216182721.EPOJ19275.fortune.excite.com@magic.excite.com> for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:27:21 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <6040627.950725641386.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:27:21 -0800 (PST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Online internet till sunrise in Europe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.1.48.106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Your E-Mail dated 12.2.2000 only arrived in my mailbox on the 16th. I guess that this is probably true of most of us? Regards, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freeworld.excite.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12949 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2000 20:33:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Feb 2000 20:33:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12LB25-00014F-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:26:45 +0000 Received: from cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.173]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12LB23-00014A-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:26:43 +0000 Received: from modem-8.atalante.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.129.136] helo=lvm) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12LB1v-00078o-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:26:36 +0000 Message-ID: <000201bf78bc$2346f1e0$8881883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re. Folded dipoles and meander ants. Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:25:48 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi John,
I tried to model just such an antenna a few weeks ago using Eznec.The idea was similar to yours to try to improve the top loading.However the configuration showed NO improvement over having the 3 top wires in paralel.Presumably at a spacing of only 2 feet they are far too close together to have any effect.I am very intrested in any development of this type and would be quite happy to model any ideas you may have.73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25153 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2000 21:17:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Feb 2000 21:17:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12LBiV-0001Qx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 21:10:35 +0000 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.91]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12LBiT-0001Qs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 21:10:33 +0000 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12LBiL-000AKo-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 21:10:26 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <38AB11A8.FC80EEA2@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 21:07:52 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Preferred freqs References: <200002160924_MC2-996A-EABF@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Regarding data modes, Geri wrote: > . . . two segments that would be perfect for "beaconing": > below 136.000 kHz (we have chose that segment, because here within Europ > there is much QRM . . . This is true. But we still have to be careful! Beaconing for extended periods close to 136.0 kHz at times of high activity (e.g. Sat/Sun mornings) has been known to cause QRM to local stations attempting to operate normal-speed CW at the low end of the band. > The other segment is the "Analog- and Digital Mode"sSegment, that > we also have used already for PSK31, HELL, RTTY, etc. between 137.300 and > 137.600 kHz. More recently, it has been pointed out that 137.3 kHz remains a popular frequency for normal-speed CW. I believe that the guidelines published in Dave's colummn ('Radcom', January 2000, p71) took this into account when suggesting that data modes use the band 137.4 to 137.6 kHz. But, as Dave pointed out in RadCom, this is not mandatory, it is just a suggestion. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10501 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2000 08:41:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Feb 2000 08:41:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12LMNT-0006PC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:33:35 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12LMNQ-0006P7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:33:32 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA73136 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 09:33:25 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000217103107.269f94c2@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:31:07 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re SIDs and Transatlantic In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.20000216200202.008642e0@laatikko.saunalahti.fi> References: <000201bf7872$bb1e6740$e491883e@lvm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 20:02 16/02/00 +0200, OH2LX wrote: >SID effects are mainly caused by solar EM radiation >and D region effects by hard X-rays. So they travel >with about the same speed than visible light does. Vaino is right, I mixed up SID (or MDE) with the auroral effects which are caused by slower particles and occure several days after a major flare. In the past I observed enhanced propagation on 136kHz in northern directions at days when aurora was reported on VHF and also recent observations in Canada showed enhanced propagation several days after a flare. So maybe (partly) the same mechanisms are involved. Aurora reports on in DX-clusters could be used as a warning for enhanced LF propagation. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12092 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2000 08:52:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Feb 2000 08:52:15 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12LMZu-0006ax-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:46:26 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12LMZn-0006as-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:46:19 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from dennison.demon.co.uk ([194.222.239.33]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12LMZf-0002VL-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:46:11 +0000 Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:44:37 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Mike Dennison" Subject: Re: LF: Re. Folded dipoles and meander ants. In-reply-to: <200002170038_MC2-9986-B9BD@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >I know that the idea of the top load is to get more capacity in the air. >owever, I have read an article somewhere about toploads of a short vertical >being equipped with coils to improve or to "lengthen" the top load wires >electrically. Any experience with that? Would that do any good? >Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) > That is effectively what I do with a coil at the top of the vertical section, before the three parallel top wires. The positive effect of raising the current higher up the vertical section must be balanced against the losses from the coil. It certainly works for me, and I have tried it both at home where the vertical section is close to the house, and portable in an open field. There is, however, an argument that maximum benefit is when the lower part of the vertical has some local screening by buildings and trees. It's worth a try. I have described my light-weight loading coil here before but if anyone wants it again, I will post it on my web site or e-mail direct. Incidentally, I have had great success using my inverted-L on 160m by using two coils - one at the top of the vertical, and one a few metres along the horizontal. This seemed to work better than a single top coil. I am not sure why, but it may have increased the amount of current in the short horizontal section between the two coils and tailored the angle of radiation to just what was needed. Not necessarily what we want at LF, but again well worth a try. If we lose the will to experiment "outside the box" we might as well give up. -- Mike, G3XDV IO91VT http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4638 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2000 09:37:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Feb 2000 09:37:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12LNGy-0006y6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 09:30:56 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12LNGu-0006xz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 09:30:53 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA90754 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:30:45 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000217112827.12d74370@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:28:27 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re. Folded dipoles and meander ants. In-reply-to: <200002170038_MC2-9986-B9BD@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 00:38 17/02/00 -0500, DK8KW wrote: >I know that the idea of the top load is to get more capacity in the air. >owever, I have read an article somewhere about toploads of a short vertical >being equipped with coils to improve or to "lengthen" the top load wires >electrically. Any experience with that? Would that do any good? End december 1999 I placed about 50% of the loading inductance at the top of the vertical section (remaining 50% at groundlevel). Result was a gain of abot 3 to 5 dB. I will try to get about 90% of the inductance at the top soon, let's see what that will do. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1980 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2000 21:44:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Feb 2000 21:44:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12LYNa-0003rW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 21:22:30 +0000 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12LYNX-0003rR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 21:22:27 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12LYNP-0006Eo-0C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 21:22:20 +0000 Message-ID: <38AC65EC.29EED15A@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 21:19:41 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Components used in Ropex TX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear All, I have just had a telephone call from Bob G8RW to say that his Ropex TX has failed. He suspects that the PA devices have blown, after giving many months of reliable service. As a result, Bob is currently QRT on 136 kHz. Bob has tried to identify the semiconductors used, but is unable to locate any markings or part numbers on the Ropex PA devices. Does anyone know what devices are used in this TX; and where they may be obtained? Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6839 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2000 22:40:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Feb 2000 22:40:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12LZTG-0004Pz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:32:26 +0000 Received: from mashie.force9.net ([195.166.128.30]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12LZTE-0004Pu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:32:25 +0000 Received: (qmail 27895 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2000 22:32:17 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 17 Feb 2000 22:32:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 9188 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2000 22:32:15 -0000 Received: from 219.01-04.quay.dial.plus.net.uk (HELO main) (212.159.76.219) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Feb 2000 22:32:15 -0000 Message-ID: <005701bf7997$89008b00$0600a8c0@main> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <38AC65EC.29EED15A@alg.demon.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Components used in Ropex TX Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:36:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Steve and all. The PA devices in the Ropex are IRF1010N mosfets (Farnell part no. 637-397 at Ł3.10 each) and the driver chip, which may have gone with them, is an SG3525. Farnell part 408-359 at Ł1.14 each. I hope that helps! 73, Dave G3YXM. > > I have just had a telephone call from Bob G8RW to say that his Ropex TX > has failed. He suspects that the PA devices have blown, after giving > many months of reliable service. As a result, Bob is currently QRT on > 136 kHz. > > Bob has tried to identify the semiconductors used, but is unable to > locate any markings or part numbers on the Ropex PA devices. > > Does anyone know what devices are used in this TX; and where they may be > obtained? > > Regards to all, > Steve GW4ALG > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3124 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2000 09:55:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Feb 2000 09:55:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ljsw-0000fz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:39:38 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226] helo=gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ljsn-0000fs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:39:30 +0000 Received: by gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id KAA14097; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 10:40:15 +0100 (MET) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Received: from somewhere by smtpxd X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" To: "'rsgb_lf_group'" Subject: LF: Inverted V on LF? Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 10:39:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hallo Group, I thought about an symetrical antenna for LF. The antenna could be an inverted V arrangement with a length of 2 X150 m. A practicable hight is about 20m for the feeding point. Has anyone experience with this kind of antenna? What is the difference to a marconi system or a top loaded vertical? May be this is a stupide question. Even so.... 73 de dl1san wolf -> will be qrv during the weekend From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3126 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2000 10:53:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Feb 2000 10:53:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Lkv9-0001Ed-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 10:45:59 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Lkv7-0001EY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 10:45:57 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA39712 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 11:45:49 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000218124330.2ebf3f0e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 12:43:30 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Inverted V on LF? In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 10:39 18/02/00 +0100, DL1SAN wrote: >I thought about an symetrical antenna for LF. The antenna could be an >inverted V arrangement with a length of 2 X150 m. A practicable hight is >about 20m for the feeding point. Has anyone experience with this kind of >antenna? What is the difference to a marconi system or a top loaded >vertical? >May be this is a stupide question. Even so.... Main difference is that a marconi antenna (with or without toploading) has vertical polarisation while a short horizontal dipole (300m = 0.14 wavelengths) will be horizontal polarized. In all LF handbooks you find that a horizontal polarized antenna is rather useless because : 1. you will have no surface wave (as you need a vertical polarized signal for that). 2. for horizontal polarized antennas at very low height (20m = 0.009 wavelengths) the signal will be 'canceled out' by reflections at the ground (or by the 'mirror antenna' that is at 20m below the ground and is in counterphase with the real antenna) But this last may only be partially true as ground is far from perfect at most 'amateur locations'. The only way to find out wether it works or not is to try it. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29100 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2000 11:30:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Feb 2000 11:30:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12LlUd-0001V2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 11:22:39 +0000 Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12LlUc-0001Uw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 11:22:38 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12LlRq-0006Kj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 11:19:46 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <29185.200002181127@gemini> From: "James Moritz" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 11:27:37 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Thursday night conditions - DL1SAN's ANT X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Was very pleased to work EI0CF and SM6PXJ on 136kHz normal CW last night, both for the first time. The fading on signals on the band was very noticeable - Finbar started off as 439 and was 559 by the end of the QSO. Christer's signal was the other way round - starting at 549 and almost disappearing at the end of the QSO. I have tried to work both Finbar and Christer on several occasions before, but with no success, so it seems these 'rapid fading' conditions are good for me, anyway. I am still running 100W into an inverted L at about 8m average height - but in spite of this, and somewhat sporadic operating, I have been able to work about 30 different stations in 8 countries since last December. I would encourage anyone who likes the idea of 136kHz operation, but who is put off by not having a huge antenna or transmitter, to have a go anyway - you can still have an interesting time with quite modest means. Interesting to see how DL1SAN's inverted V antenna works out - I presume he intends to tune it up as a short dipole - It would be very interesting if he could also try it as a top-loaded vertical, for comparison. That should add some fuel to the low angle versus high angle debate. If Wolf tunes it up as a dipole, he will certainly need a well insulated feeder! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20871 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2000 18:40:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Feb 2000 18:40:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ls5z-0004jc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 18:25:39 +0000 Received: from ewey-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.191] helo=ewey.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ls5y-0004jP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 18:25:38 +0000 Received: from magic.excite.com ([199.172.148.161]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.31a 201-229-119-114) with ESMTP id <20000218182458.FSXX9584.ewey.excite.com@magic.excite.com> for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 10:24:58 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <17685549.950898298102.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com> Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 10:24:58 -0800 (PST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Folded dipoles and Meander antennas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.1.56.165 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, Many thanks to all who responded to my enquiry. I have got a lot of useful ideas from these responses, but the main conclusion seems to be "try it". Thanks again, 73s John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freeworld.excite.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6611 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2000 23:47:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Feb 2000 23:47:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Lwzo-0006ru-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 23:39:36 +0000 Received: from brockman.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.30]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Lwzn-0006rp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 23:39:35 +0000 Received: from p164.lifford1.eircom.net ([159.134.235.164] helo=eircom.net) by brockman.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 12Lwzd-0000Lw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 23:39:26 +0000 Message-ID: <001c01bf7a6a$3345d5c0$a4eb869f@net> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <29185.200002181127@gemini> Subject: LF: Re: Thursday night conditions - DL1SAN's ANT Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 23:45:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello James , M0BMU, Many thanks for the contact yesterday. As a matter of interest I have been QRT for about 2 months now but have re-erected an LF antenna again. Perhaps you might be interested in what I am using. Basically it is a 4 wire horizontal antenna using electricans earthing wire. Length 90 metres overall. Total amount of wire in antenna 360 metres. The support system consists of the following........ I have a 10 metre wooden pole ( ex street light pole) with a metal pole protruding at the top to which I have joined a horizontal 3 metre steel pole with 4 insulators spaced 2 on each side of centre. Across the field next door ( farmer agreeable to my having antenna strung across it ) I have the 4 wires running to another pole, again with 4 insulators which terminate each of the 90 metre wires. This end is supported by a rope slung over the limb of a large oak tree and hauled up to about 8 metres. At the feed end the wires come together 12 metres beyond the high support and drop about 20 feet at an angle of 45 degrees to the shed window , where it feeds through the wooden window frame to the ATU coil. To bring to resonance, the loading coil has a value of 950 uH. The appears to be strong similarities between my antenna and John G4GVC, whose antenna is essentially horizontal as well. I will be very interesting to note how the antenna performs in the light of the strong debate on high verticals and if reasonably successful, could give encouragement to those who cannot or don't want to erect large verticals. John G4GVC has had great success with his, so lets hope I can work a bit of DX with mine. Thanks again for the pleasant qso. Bye the way Mike G3XDV has done wonders to his signal, sounds superb, good copy, thanks Mike for the qso last night. 73's Finbar EI0CF Malin Head. ----- Original Message ----- From: James Moritz To: Sent: 18 February 2000 11:27 Subject: LF: Thursday night conditions - DL1SAN's ANT > Dear LF Group, > Was very pleased to work EI0CF and SM6PXJ on 136kHz > normal CW last night, both for the first time. > > The fading on signals on the band was very noticeable - Finbar > started off as 439 and was 559 by the end of the QSO. Christer's > signal was the other way round - starting at 549 and almost > disappearing at the end of the QSO. I have tried to work both > Finbar and Christer on several occasions before, but with no > success, so it seems these 'rapid fading' conditions are good for > me, anyway. > > I am still running 100W into an inverted L at about 8m average > height - but in spite of this, and somewhat sporadic operating, I > have been able to work about 30 different stations in 8 countries > since last December. I would encourage anyone who likes the idea > of 136kHz operation, but who is put off by not having a huge > antenna or transmitter, to have a go anyway - you can still have an > interesting time with quite modest means. > > Interesting to see how DL1SAN's inverted V antenna works out - I > presume he intends to tune it up as a short dipole - It would be very > interesting if he could also try it as a top-loaded vertical, for > comparison. That should add some fuel to the low angle versus > high angle debate. If Wolf tunes it up as a dipole, he will certainly > need a well insulated feeder! > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13277 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2000 01:21:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Feb 2000 01:21:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12LyTS-0007e7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 01:14:18 +0000 Received: from host.king.igs.net ([216.58.2.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12LyTP-0007e2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 01:14:16 +0000 Received: from server1 (ttyC25.king.igs.net [216.58.2.153]) by host.king.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id UAA99077 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 20:13:53 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kayser@king.igs.net) Message-ID: <003701bf7a76$9a62f790$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: One Week Later, and more.... Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 20:13:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: A week ago tonight I was introduced to DDH47 who were doing an end-of-the-era CW broadcast and later DCF39 who came thundering in here as a result of a SID that occurred sometime earlier that week. In the week since then, DCF39 has come in, starting at somewhat different times before sunset, usually fading out after sunset for a while and then returning from medium to weak signal for a number of hours each evening. I do not have a recording facility to tell me what the DCF39 does at sunrise in Europe but that will come in time. DCF39 is heard regularly here in Canada and the signal level varies but it is there on a daily basis at this time of year. I was lucky to find a source of notifications of solar events through an Australian organization, part of their email to me follows..... quote Visit our web site www.ips.gov.au/mail-lists/ and subscribe to our flare alerts. Flare alerts deliver a message to you as a significant flare starts and another message when it ends. This second message gives some general details of the locations experiencing a fadeout during the flare. When the flare is fairly large there is a third message during the event giving the estimated end time of the event. For web based information try www.ips.gov.au/asfc/status_panel/ and look at the flare and fadeout icons and the information behind them. These update every 5 minutes. and unquote. I have subscribed and received two notifications so far. Each notice contained the following A Flare (Greater than C8 in X-ray Flux) Has Just Started At: nnnn UT on 17-02-2000 and was later followed by IPS FLARE ALERT - PART C PRELIMINARY FLARE DETAILS AT END OF FLARE ISSUE TIME: Fri Feb 18 08:00:33 EST 2000 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Approximate Flare Start : 17-02-2000 2024 UT Approximate Flare Maximum: 17-02-2000 2034 UT at Flux M 1.3 Approximate Flare End : 17-02-2000 2059 UT ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Australian Space Forecast Centre IPS Radio and Space Services (61)(2)9213 8010 (phone) (61)(2)9213 8061 (fax) and somewhat later a second and today K0HB passed on the following. > >Space Science News for February 18, 2000 > >Here Comes the Sun: A "full halo" coronal mass ejection left the Sun >yesterday, apparently headed directly for Earth. When the leading edge of >the disturbance reaches our planet on Feb. 19 or 20, it could trigger >aurora and other geomagnetic activity. FULL STORY at > >http://www.spacescience.com/headlines/y2000/ast18feb_1.htm > > >Here Comes the Sun So maybe we will be having some fun tomorrow night or Sunday night. I will be away on Sunday night. I will be watching tomorrow night. If things get hot, this might be another good opportunity to see what can be heard across the North Atlantic. My receiving system is still not resolved and I am taking steps to resolve things by making a trip to compare results (axiom of substitution) with a peer, the trip to maybe occur as early as next Friday. Questions: I do not know how to interpret these flare warning messages. I would certainly like to know what the size of the event was that triggered the conditions we had a week ago. I also do not want to be a propagation expert at this time, I am busy trying to get an LF station going and that is keeping me busy enough. Some help with the propagation would be appreciated. My goal is to be alerted as early as possible of solar events that might provide enhanced LF propagation across the North Atlantic. It has been a great week. I am looking forward to more of them in the future. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4390 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2000 05:29:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Feb 2000 05:29:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12M2Fq-0000nI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 05:16:30 +0000 Received: from ds-img-2.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.135] helo=spdmgaab.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12M2Fp-0000nD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 05:16:30 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id AAA15778 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 00:16:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 00:16:00 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: One Week Later, and more.... To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200002190016_MC2-99D5-3796@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Larry, thanks for the interesting information on DCF39 and the possibility to get information on flares. > I do not have a recording facility to tell me what the DCF39 does at sunrise >in Europe but that will come in time. Do yo have ON5OO's software available, that was written to record the signal strength behavious vs. time during the August eclipse last year? It just uses a simple sound-card to record the audio level, that is directly proportional to the signal level when the AGC of the receiver is switched off. The software is freeware, I don't know if it is still available on the net, however, I could mail you a copy, if you like. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) http://www.qru.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10752 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2000 06:26:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Feb 2000 06:26:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12M3Ek-0001Cp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 06:19:26 +0000 Received: from xyber.irisz.hu ([212.92.1.142] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12M3Ej-0001Ck-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 06:19:25 +0000 Received: from xyber.irisz.hu (IDENT:ivan@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xyber.irisz.hu (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA06763 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 06:19:11 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <38AE35DC.72A00339@irisz.hu> Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 06:19:08 +0000 From: "Ivan Artner" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: IMC X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: One Week Later, and more.... References: <200002190016_MC2-99D5-3796@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi, I found that software on my hdd... and it's available at http://xyber.irisz.hu/cucc/eclipse.exe 73 de Ivan HA5TS > Do yo have ON5OO's software available, that was written to record the > signal strength behavious vs. time during the August eclipse last year? It > just uses a simple sound-card to record the audio level, that is directly > proportional to the signal level when the AGC of the receiver is switched > off. > > The software is freeware, I don't know if it is still available on the net, > however, I could mail you a copy, if you like. > > Best 73 > > Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) > http://www.qru.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16720 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2000 07:15:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Feb 2000 07:15:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12M3zx-0001Wj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 07:08:13 +0000 Received: from ds-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.138] helo=spdmgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12M3zw-0001We-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 07:08:12 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id CAA27602 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 02:08:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 02:07:27 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Again: Soundblaster Question? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200002190207_MC2-99D2-9F49@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello fellows, some time ago we had a discussion on various types of soundcards. Someone pointed me to the address of a company in the US, where the old-type Soundblaster AWE64 (value or gold) with ISA-connection (not PCI!) is still available. I have tried sevral sources here in DL, but obviously they all ran out of stock. Unfortunately I have lost that address. Does anyone know, where still to get this souncard? The problem with most of the PCI stuff is that DOS emulation does not work properly and programs such as FFT will not work. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) http://www.qru.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22400 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2000 09:45:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Feb 2000 09:45:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12M6FS-0002RH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:32:22 +0000 Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl ([195.121.6.59]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12M6FR-0002RC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:32:21 +0000 Received: from nl9222tvtref.nl ([195.121.219.66]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA6169 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:31:39 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Again: Soundblaster Question? X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:31:25 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <7735E995C43.AAA6169@smtp04.wxs.nl> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: www.jdr.com 73 de Ko, NL9222 ---------- From: 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW To: INTERNET:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Again: Soundblaster Question? Date: Saturday, February 19, 2000 8:07 AM Hello fellows, some time ago we had a discussion on various types of soundcards. Someone pointed me to the address of a company in the US, where the old-type Soundblaster AWE64 (value or gold) with ISA-connection (not PCI!) is still available. I have tried sevral sources here in DL, but obviously they all ran out of stock. Unfortunately I have lost that address. Does anyone know, where still to get this souncard? The problem with most of the PCI stuff is that DOS emulation does not work properly and programs such as FFT will not work. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) http://www.qru.de ---------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18298 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2000 14:03:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Feb 2000 14:03:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MAIn-0004EC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 13:52:05 +0000 Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.61]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MAIk-0004E7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 13:52:02 +0000 Received: from 207-172-126-231.s612.tnt5.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com ([207.172.126.231] helo=nan-and-sandy) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 12MAI7-0005dj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 08:51:24 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 08:52:46 -0500 Message-ID: <01BF7AB6.B0E816E0.esanders@erols.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Nan and Sandy Sanders" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: Again: Soundblaster Question? Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 08:52:41 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Also www.jameco.com part number 163715. Sandy WB5MMB ---------- From: Ko Versteeg[SMTP:nl9222tv@tref.nl] Reply To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2000 4:31 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Again: Soundblaster Question? www.jdr.com 73 de Ko, NL9222 ---------- From: 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW To: INTERNET:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Again: Soundblaster Question? Date: Saturday, February 19, 2000 8:07 AM Hello fellows, some time ago we had a discussion on various types of soundcards. Someone pointed me to the address of a company in the US, where the old-type Soundblaster AWE64 (value or gold) with ISA-connection (not PCI!) is still available. I have tried sevral sources here in DL, but obviously they all ran out of stock. Unfortunately I have lost that address. Does anyone know, where still to get this souncard? The problem with most of the PCI stuff is that DOS emulation does not work properly and programs such as FFT will not work. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) http://www.qru.de ---------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24162 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2000 14:29:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Feb 2000 14:29:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MAbM-0004Qy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 14:11:16 +0000 Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MAbL-0004Qt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 14:11:15 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.de.17c4b01 (3889) for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:10:34 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:10:33 EST Subject: LF: Protected FETs? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 137 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello group. Does anyone have any practical experience with any of the FETS that feature internal protection circuits? PROFET SmartFET OmniFET etc I'm investigating supply current limiting and was considering using one of these devices in series with the supply. It would have the advantage of protecting a power amp in the event of a PA FET failure, something which can't be achieved by simply removing the drive. Just thought I would ask before spending money on expensive fuses! 73 David G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17845 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2000 15:29:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Feb 2000 15:29:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MBi4-0004rv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 15:22:16 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MBi3-0004rq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 15:22:15 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from pickmere.demon.co.uk ([158.152.117.143]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12MBhv-000KUD-0W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 15:22:07 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 11:52:58 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M.J.Powell" Subject: Re: LF: One Week Later, and more.... References: <003701bf7a76$9a62f790$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> In-reply-to: <003701bf7a76$9a62f790$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: snip >I do not know how to interpret these flare warning messages. Easy way to remember: 'C's are small events and don't do much. 'M's are medium and cause some SW effects. 'X's are Biggies and can play the devil. I can recommend the IPS service which I've subscribed to for over a year. The only trouble is that Oz is round the other side of the world from me! What they record doesn't often have any effect on my listening, except for the Biggies. Mike -- M.J.Powell From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13613 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2000 19:12:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Feb 2000 19:12:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MFAW-0006OY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 19:03:52 +0000 Received: from kang.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.28]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MFAU-0006OT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 19:03:50 +0000 Received: from p129.lifford1.eircom.net ([159.134.235.129] helo=eircom.net) by kang.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 12MFAJ-0005WA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 19:03:40 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01bf7b0c$d8f4a940$81eb869f@net> From: "FINBAR O'CONNOR" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re:TransAtlantic Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 19:08:41 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi Larry,  VA3LK,
                           I am not sure if you are completely set up for weak signal reception on 136 khz yet, if so perhaps we might set up a sked for 136 khz.  You name the best freq on the band, that suits your   QTH.  I have just  erected a new antenna, essentially it's horizontal, but it does consist of a lot of wire,  360 metres of it, but the height is rather low, only  10 metres.
It appears to be getting out quite well  here in Europe, I worked a number of  UK stations today, as well as one in Belgium and was called by a station in Holland, but I just could not hear him.
My QTH is probably the nearest one to you facing across the Atlantic,  co-ordinates are    IO65IG, 
in lat and long its near enough   55.22 north  007.21 west,  Malin Head,  County Donegal,  Ireland.  
Malin Head is the most northerly point in Ireland.
My present QTH  is about  a mile and a half from the sea, the land slopes gently down to  a  bay called Trawbreaga Bay, next stop and parish  is Canada.
If we can set up a sked , I can tranmit  my callsign  at   5 wpm  from a memory keyer, but it is best if I can stay with the transmitter, I just don't trust it, I did set fire to the window frame last year and the XYL was none too pleased.                                                                                                                    After a lot of work with putty, varnish and colouring, its hard to tell the dreadful event ever took place.
So there,  let me know what you think.  Oh one other thing, my transmitter is  VFO controlled,  so there is an amount of drift, however I do have two mini  transmitter's that are xtal controlled,  I'd need to check, but one is near  136.6 khz and the other is
about 137.15 khz. Both are more than capable of driving my Valve amp to glowing output......full steam ahead.
Best regards
Finbar O' Connor        EI0CF         Malin Head.
p.s.   I can  pass my  home telephone number to you by a direct  e-mail, when I  get your  e-mail  address. Let me know.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22825 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2000 23:11:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Feb 2000 23:11:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MIsS-00081S-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 23:01:28 +0000 Received: from host.king.igs.net ([216.58.2.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MIsR-00081N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 23:01:27 +0000 Received: from server1 (ttyC04.king.igs.net [216.58.2.132]) by host.king.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id SAA59999 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:01:12 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kayser@king.igs.net) Message-ID: <002101bf7b2d$3c3479c0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: DCF39 building signal quickly in Canada tonight Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:00:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: DCF39 is building quickly here now as Sunset is nearly complete. If it exceeds +25 dB over the noise will notify via the reflector quickly Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19081 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2000 23:51:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Feb 2000 23:51:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MJVz-0008FC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 23:42:19 +0000 Received: from host.king.igs.net ([216.58.2.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MJVy-0008F7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 23:42:18 +0000 Received: from server1 (ttyC26.king.igs.net [216.58.2.154]) by host.king.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id SAA61715 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:42:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kayser@king.igs.net) Message-ID: <003901bf7b32$f51c5840$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: One Week Later, and more.... Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:42:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike: >Easy way to remember: > >'C's are small events and don't do much. >'M's are medium and cause some SW effects. >'X's are Biggies and can play the devil. > >I can recommend the IPS service which I've subscribed to for over a >year. The only trouble is that Oz is round the other side of the world >from me! What they record doesn't often have any effect on my listening, >except for the Biggies. I am only interested in the "Biggies" as they are what got the conditions a weekago yesterday. Please what is your call? I have been mixing you with my friend over here Mitch Powell and making a mess of things in the process. Glad to know that you are not him.... Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8048 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2000 23:55:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Feb 2000 23:55:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MJSq-0008EN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 23:39:04 +0000 Received: from host.king.igs.net ([216.58.2.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MJSp-0008EI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 23:39:03 +0000 Received: from server1 (ttyC26.king.igs.net [216.58.2.154]) by host.king.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id SAA61540; Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:38:48 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kayser@king.igs.net) Message-ID: <003001bf7b32$7d9f5b00$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: "Mitch Powell" , rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: DCF39 good, but not yet getting better..... Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:38:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: DCF39 is arriving with a good signal level here in Eastern Canada but it has not improved over the last hour. Will watch for another hour and comment then if it gets better. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15298 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2000 08:24:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Feb 2000 08:24:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MRTp-0003PE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 08:12:37 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from ds9.sci.fi ([195.74.0.54]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MRTn-0003P9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 08:12:35 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from default (CMXVIII.rdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.136.18]) by ds9.sci.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA24141 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:12:29 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000220101232.008737b0@laatikko.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: oh2lx@laatikko.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:12:32 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: Signal Strength Measurements by OH2LX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Measurements of UK Decca's and some other stations : ---------------------------------------------------------- Day ------------------ 15Feb 16Feb 17Feb 18Feb 19Feb Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat Time, UTC ------------ 2150- 2220- 2355- 2150- 2205- ---------------------------------------------------------- kHz Ch *d,km AZI* *Indicated ESH2 input, dBmW* ---------------------------------------------------------- 127.8 (6C), 1435, 280, -105 -104 -101 -109 -101 ---------------------------------------------------------- 126.7 (2A), 1565, 269, -108 -102 -100 -114 -105 ---------------------------------------------------------- 128.5 (8E), 1766, 276, -109 -102 -112 -117 -102 ---------------------------------------------------------- 127.0 (3B), 1871, 257, -109 -103 -105 -113 -105 ---------------------------------------------------------- 127.5 (5B), 1890, 247, -110 -105 -98 -115 -103 ---------------------------------------------------------- 128.2 (7D), 2060, 267, -120 -109 -111 -120 -114 ---------------------------------------------------------- 126.4 (1B), 2282, 253, -119 -112 -109 -117 -111 ---------------------------------------------------------- kHz Ch *d,km AZI* *Indicated ESH2 input, dBmW* ---------------------------------------------------------- 128.93 ref, 1553, 228, -83 -75 -72 -81 -89 ---------------------------------------------------------- 138.83 ref 1221, 226, -87 -80 -74 -84 -85 ---------------------------------------------------------- 135.8 SXV 2490, 182, -105 -118 -104 -107 -108 ---------------------------------------------------------- 137.0 CFH* 5750, 295, -129 -129 -? -131 -128 ---------------------------------------------------------- * During this period CFH has been moderately weak... (Record *strength* for CFH: 13Feb, 2208z = 119 dBuW) ---------------------------------------------------------- 15Feb 2055: OG5UFO -111 15Feb 2055: OH1LT -129; 2206:-127 15Feb 2138: SM6PXJ -123; 2125:-123; 2200:-127 18Feb 2000: OH7OL -129; 2128:-131 18Feb 2028: SM6PXJ -124 18Feb 2057: IK5ZPV -130 18Feb 2136: OH5UFO -109 18Feb 2206: OH1LT -127 19Feb 2057: OZ8NJ -127; 2118:-127; 19Feb 2058: OH1BS -114; 2129:-109 to -105!! 19Feb 2058: SM6PXJ -116; 2150:-109: 2216:-113 19Feb 2142: OH7OL -124; 2159:-124: 2232:-129 19Feb 2216: OH1XF -118; ---------------------------------------------------------- 19Feb OH1XF heard 1st time! d=155km (KP10CG) ---------------------------------------------------------- (R&S ESH2/---- 10m coax---/1:10/---15m wire-----): Noise level with antenna: with 200Hz IF BandWidth: -25..-22 dB(uV), -132..-129dBmW (varies w qrm etc) ---------------------------------------------------------- End of message of 20 Feb 2000, 0815 UTC, from OH2LX ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20770 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2000 16:59:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Feb 2000 16:59:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MZVT-0006oW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:46:51 +0000 Received: from mta4-gui.server.ntli.net ([194.168.54.145] helo=mta4-svc.virgin.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MZVS-0006oR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:46:51 +0000 Received: from default ([62.252.40.63]) by mta4-svc.virgin.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <20000220164639.KKTB6809.mta4-svc.virgin.net@default> for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:46:39 +0000 Message-ID: <003d01bf7bc2$3eb3b5e0$3f28fc3e@default> From: "peter cleall" To: "RSGB LF group" Subject: LF: flare information Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:47:45 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Everyone seems to have their own favourite sources of information. I use the Space Environment Centre http://www.sec.noaa.gov Vast amount of resources are housed at this site. A bit of digging in the gopher area will lead to archives of daily measurements , alerts and forecasts. The 3 day satellite environment plots of proton flux, electron flux, GOES satellite Hp and the estimated Kp is the one that I find particularly helpful. see last weekends chart at gopher://solar.sec.noaa.gov/I9/plots/satenv/20000213_satenv%09%09%2B Also 2 typical examples of forecasts gopher://solar.sec.noaa.gov/00/forecasts/RSGA/0213RSGA%09%09%2B gopher://solar.sec.noaa.gov/00/forecasts/SGAS/0212SGAS%09%09%2B regards Peter G8AFN From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16550 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2000 17:09:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Feb 2000 17:09:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MZem-0006uW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:56:28 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MZel-0006uR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:56:28 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from pickmere.demon.co.uk ([158.152.117.143]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12MZed-000GdI-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:56:20 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:22:02 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M.J.Powell" Subject: Re: LF: One Week Later, and more.... References: <003901bf7b32$f51c5840$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> In-reply-to: <003901bf7b32$f51c5840$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In message <003901bf7b32$f51c5840$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca>, Larry Kayser writes >Mike: > >>Easy way to remember: >> >>'C's are small events and don't do much. >>'M's are medium and cause some SW effects. >>'X's are Biggies and can play the devil. >> >>I can recommend the IPS service which I've subscribed to for over a >>year. The only trouble is that Oz is round the other side of the world >>from me! What they record doesn't often have any effect on my listening, >>except for the Biggies. > > >I am only interested in the "Biggies" as they are what got the conditions a >weekago yesterday. > >Please what is your call? I have been mixing you with my friend over here >Mitch Powell and making a mess of things in the process. Glad to know that >you are not him.... No, I'm not him! I'm G3IJE in Cheshire. Not active yet on 136. Mike -- M.J.Powell From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15490 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2000 21:14:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Feb 2000 21:14:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MdWe-000076-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 21:04:20 +0000 Received: from ds-img-2.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.135] helo=spdmgaab.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MdWd-000071-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 21:04:19 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id QAA07989 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:03:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:03:05 -0500 From: "DEREK ATTER" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: EI0CF New Antenna To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200002201603_MC2-99F4-FA93@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Message text written by INTERNET:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Finbar, Your new antenna doing fine despite its relatively low height - a good RST559 here in Sussex and very easy copy despite the Loran QRM. It was a bad day here for the noise pick-up from the British Telecom cable carrying high speed data which couples into my secondary receiving loop so I could not use canceller system to get rid of Loran. It was good to hear you again and thanks for the chat. 73, de Derek Atter, G3GRO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22347 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2000 22:16:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Feb 2000 22:16:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MeYn-0000ep-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 22:10:37 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MeYm-0000ek-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 22:10:37 +0000 Received: from [213.1.133.92] (helo=default) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12MeYQ-0006io-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 22:10:14 +0000 Message-ID: <000d01bf7bee$94338320$5c8501d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for Feb 19/20 on GB7DXM Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 22:02:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Saturday 0823 DJ5DI CQ 0827 G4GVC worked DJ5DI given 559 0844 OE5ODL cq worked DJ5DI on 136.6 abt 439 here 0940 SM6PXJ wkd PA0LEG 0950 G3XTZ cq 0954 GI3PDN calling PA0LEG 0959 G6RO called PA0LEG jumped 300Hz lf at start of call G3YXM called &wkd PA0LEG 1029 G3OLB cq much stronger than usual with me 1139 EI0CF wrked G3OLB Finbar's new aerial works well better than usual for daytime with me. 1251 G4GVC wrkd I5MXX ...PA0BWL missed 1st call-sign and called over 2nd over despite which John gave 559...I could not read I5MXX 1344 EI0CF wkd G3YXM 1357 G3CCH QRSS CQ 'O' good signal here ?? EI0CF called PA0BWL no qso 1728 GI3PDN wkd EI0CF ?? EI0CF wkd G4GVC got a 589 from John, which I think is an S point up for daytime. 2139 GW4ALG cq 2154 GW4ALG wkd SM6PXJ 2150 M0BMU wkd ON4ZK QRSS both 'O' here ?? GW4ALG called OZ8ND Sunday 20th Feb 0108 SM6PXJ QRS with some drift Christer...shack getting cold!! 0830z G3XDV Big signal...test and then cq 0940z HB2ASB wkg QRS to DF8ZR on DFCW ...Toni a good solid 'O' 25dB above the noise on 'gram, Bernd 'T'in local noise, just 'O' on last over ?? HB2ASB QRS calling 15TGC pulled all stops out but no signs of Cesare here (.685 to .770) 1059 DJ5AO QRS calling I5TGC 2nd call at 1110z petered out into noise. I didn't see a qso, but it sounds as though Cesare is making it over the Alps now. 1705 DF8ZR CQ on DFCW 'O' 2140 ON4ZK QRS CQ 'O' Good signals all day from Steve GW4ALG and Peter (from the Chalk Pits) GB2CPM, also DJ9IE, PA0SE, PA0BWL, and a big signal from Tom G3OLB...someone else 'breathing on' their aerial I guess. A big file of spots this week again 136.9 I5MXX 20-Feb-2000 1803Z 599 136.8 OE5ODL 20-Feb-2000 1143Z 569 cq 136.9 DK5PT 20-Feb-2000 1050Z 549 136.5 DJ1ZB 20-Feb-2000 0937Z 559 cq 136.5 HB2ASB 20-Feb-2000 0851Z 579 136.3 G4GVC 19-Feb-2000 0928Z 329 cq 137.0 DJ5JI 19-Feb-2000 0923Z qso with oe5odl 136.6 SM6PXJ 19-Feb-2000 0917Z 439 in qso with oe5odl 136.5 OE5ODL 19-Feb-2000 0840Z 559 cq 136.4 DJ5DI 19-Feb-2000 0838Z 329 136.9 SM6PXJ 18-Feb-2000 2101Z 449 136.8 I5TGC 18-Feb-2000 2012Z 569/559 jn65<>jn53ps 136.8 I5MXX 14-Feb-2000 2240Z 599 qsx 3530 136.8 HB2ASB 13-Feb-2000 2045Z 1st qso S5/hb9 569/349 137.0 I5TGC 13-Feb-2000 1833Z cq 559 with 15mw erp 137.0 DJ5BV 13-Feb-2000 1250Z CQ CQ no takers G3NYK de GB7DXM 20-Feb 2146Z > 1800.0 GW4ALG 20-Feb-2000 1218Z cq 136.32khz 1800.0 G3OLB 20-Feb-2000 1059Z wkg gb2cpm 137.33khz 1800.0 GB2CPM 20-Feb-2000 1056Z 137.10khz 1800.0 GW4ALG 19-Feb-2000 2141Z cq 136.25kHz 1800.0 EI0CF 19-Feb-2000 1753Z wkg g4gvc 136.64khz 1800.0 EI0CF 19-Feb-2000 1425Z wkg on6nd 1800.0 G3CCH 19-Feb-2000 1421Z QRS CQ 137.66khz 1800.0 EI0CF 19-Feb-2000 1415Z cq 136.63kHz 1800.0 EI0CF 19-Feb-2000 1354Z wkg g3yxm 136.63kHz 1800.0 DL3FDO 18-Feb-2000 2150Z hrd 569 137.04 1800.0 SM6PXJ 18-Feb-2000 2125Z lsn 579 136.4 kHz 1800.0 IK5ZPV 18-Feb-2000 2116Z 559 136.9kHz G3NYK de GB7DXM 20-Feb 2149Z > Another enjoyable weekend, nice to see that 'chaos' still rules even on QRS !! Thanks Toni I have a nice .jpg file of your signal and one of DF8ZR's DFCW. I would so much have liked to catch just a feint trace of Cesare, even 'T' , I hope he was transmitting in the normal area, at the top end. 73 de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11272 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2000 00:17:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Feb 2000 00:17:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MgOT-0001TT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 00:08:05 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MgOS-0001TO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 00:08:04 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA04541 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 00:07:56 GMT X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <1996010507193368199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 07:19:33 GMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re: GB2CPM Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit I had another session of operating from the Chalk Pits Museum (or Amberley Industrial Museum as they now like to call it). I have constructed a matching transformer with a wide range of taps to try to solve the problem of the ground system there. The problem is that if I try to connect the normal ground system to ground I can find no point at which the antenna will load. If I use the radials then (two radials about 250m long) then it will work provided they are isolated from ground. The other oddity is that the loading improves after I have been operating for some time. When I find or make a suitable variable coil I will go for tunable radials. I would be grateful for any advice on radial loading arrangements that any of you might have used. The physical conditions at the LF site are a bit rough at the moment with very deep ruts filled with chalk mud and frozen water. The antenna has now been refurbished with insulators from Dick, PA0SE. I hope to extent the antenna once I have sorted the radial problem. On Sunday the first station I heard was G3XDV at 599 calling CQ but the transmitter was not set up at the time. Worked (their signal reports with me) GW4ALG 579, PA0SE 559, G3OLB 589, G4GVC 589, EI0CF 559 (nice signal from Finbar), SM6PXJ 539, DK5PT 549, PA0BWL 549, G3YMC 579, G3YXM 589, G0AKY 549. I heard OZ5NJ very weakly but was unable to work him. Heard Dave working I5MXX at around 1500UTC but I was unable to hear I5MXX -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19579 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2000 06:24:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Feb 2000 06:24:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Mm3F-000422-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 06:10:33 +0000 Received: from mail1.dada.it ([195.110.96.68] helo=mail.dada.it) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Mm3D-00041x-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 06:10:32 +0000 Received: (qmail 6796 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2000 06:10:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cestag) (195.110.103.20) by mail.dada.it with SMTP; 21 Feb 2000 06:10:16 -0000 Message-ID: <000a01bf7c32$59bc87c0$14676ec3@cestag> From: "cesare tagliabue" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: R: DX Cluster spots for Feb 19/20 on GB7DXM Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 07:09:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Alan Thanks for your weekly report of GB7DXM. Sorry that you can not see my signals on Gram. Yes I work QRSS almost every evenings from 2000 to 2100 UTC and also often in the morning from 0730 to 0800 UTC, always on the top end, normally on 137.730 or so. As you know my ERP is very low because of the very small antenna. I'm sorry for have not seen the call of DJ5AO, but yesterday here in Florence the band was very noisy due to a near storm. 73 Cesare Cesare Tagliabue I 5 TGC e-mail: cestag@dada.it url: http://www.dadacasa.com/i5tgc -----Messaggio originale----- Da: Alan Melia A: rsgb_lf_group Data: domenica 20 febbraio 2000 23.38 Oggetto: LF: DX Cluster spots for Feb 19/20 on GB7DXM >Saturday >0823 DJ5DI CQ >0827 G4GVC worked DJ5DI given 559 >0844 OE5ODL cq worked DJ5DI on 136.6 abt 439 here >0940 SM6PXJ wkd PA0LEG >0950 G3XTZ cq >0954 GI3PDN calling PA0LEG >0959 G6RO called PA0LEG jumped 300Hz lf at start of call > G3YXM called &wkd PA0LEG >1029 G3OLB cq much stronger than usual with me >1139 EI0CF wrked G3OLB Finbar's new aerial works well > better than usual for daytime with me. >1251 G4GVC wrkd I5MXX ...PA0BWL missed 1st call-sign and called over > 2nd over despite which John gave 559...I could not read I5MXX >1344 EI0CF wkd G3YXM >1357 G3CCH QRSS CQ 'O' good signal here >?? EI0CF called PA0BWL no qso >1728 GI3PDN wkd EI0CF >?? EI0CF wkd G4GVC got a 589 from John, which I think is an S point up >for daytime. >2139 GW4ALG cq >2154 GW4ALG wkd SM6PXJ >2150 M0BMU wkd ON4ZK QRSS both 'O' here >?? GW4ALG called OZ8ND > >Sunday 20th Feb >0108 SM6PXJ QRS with some drift Christer...shack getting cold!! >0830z G3XDV Big signal...test and then cq >0940z HB2ASB wkg QRS to DF8ZR on DFCW ...Toni a good solid 'O' 25dB > above the noise on 'gram, Bernd 'T'in local noise, > just 'O' on last over >?? HB2ASB QRS calling 15TGC pulled all stops out but no signs of Cesare > here (.685 to .770) >1059 DJ5AO QRS calling I5TGC 2nd call at 1110z petered out into noise. I > didn't see a qso, but it sounds as though Cesare is making it over > the Alps now. >1705 DF8ZR CQ on DFCW 'O' >2140 ON4ZK QRS CQ 'O' > >Good signals all day from Steve GW4ALG and Peter (from the Chalk Pits) >GB2CPM, also DJ9IE, PA0SE, PA0BWL, and a big signal from Tom G3OLB...someone >else 'breathing on' their aerial I guess. > >A big file of spots this week again > 136.9 I5MXX 20-Feb-2000 1803Z 599 > > 136.8 OE5ODL 20-Feb-2000 1143Z 569 cq > > 136.9 DK5PT 20-Feb-2000 1050Z 549 > > 136.5 DJ1ZB 20-Feb-2000 0937Z 559 cq > > 136.5 HB2ASB 20-Feb-2000 0851Z 579 > > 136.3 G4GVC 19-Feb-2000 0928Z 329 cq > > 137.0 DJ5JI 19-Feb-2000 0923Z qso with oe5odl > > 136.6 SM6PXJ 19-Feb-2000 0917Z 439 in qso with oe5odl > > 136.5 OE5ODL 19-Feb-2000 0840Z 559 cq > > 136.4 DJ5DI 19-Feb-2000 0838Z 329 > > 136.9 SM6PXJ 18-Feb-2000 2101Z 449 > > 136.8 I5TGC 18-Feb-2000 2012Z 569/559 jn65<>jn53ps > > 136.8 I5MXX 14-Feb-2000 2240Z 599 qsx 3530 > > 136.8 HB2ASB 13-Feb-2000 2045Z 1st qso S5/hb9 569/349 > > 137.0 I5TGC 13-Feb-2000 1833Z cq 559 with 15mw erp > > 137.0 DJ5BV 13-Feb-2000 1250Z CQ CQ no takers > >G3NYK de GB7DXM 20-Feb 2146Z > > 1800.0 GW4ALG 20-Feb-2000 1218Z cq 136.32khz > > 1800.0 G3OLB 20-Feb-2000 1059Z wkg gb2cpm 137.33khz > > 1800.0 GB2CPM 20-Feb-2000 1056Z 137.10khz > > 1800.0 GW4ALG 19-Feb-2000 2141Z cq 136.25kHz > > 1800.0 EI0CF 19-Feb-2000 1753Z wkg g4gvc 136.64khz > > 1800.0 EI0CF 19-Feb-2000 1425Z wkg on6nd > > 1800.0 G3CCH 19-Feb-2000 1421Z QRS CQ 137.66khz > > 1800.0 EI0CF 19-Feb-2000 1415Z cq 136.63kHz > > 1800.0 EI0CF 19-Feb-2000 1354Z wkg g3yxm 136.63kHz > > 1800.0 DL3FDO 18-Feb-2000 2150Z hrd 569 137.04 > > 1800.0 SM6PXJ 18-Feb-2000 2125Z lsn 579 136.4 kHz > > 1800.0 IK5ZPV 18-Feb-2000 2116Z 559 136.9kHz > >G3NYK de GB7DXM 20-Feb 2149Z > > >Another enjoyable weekend, nice to see that 'chaos' still rules even on QRS >!! Thanks Toni >I have a nice .jpg file of your signal and one of DF8ZR's DFCW. I would so >much have liked to catch just a feint trace of Cesare, even 'T' , I hope he >was transmitting in the normal area, at the top end. > >73 de Alan G3NYK JO02PB >Alan.Melia@btinternet.com > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11387 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2000 08:39:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by 212.159.2.36 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2000 08:39:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MoF4-0004xA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 08:30:54 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MoF2-0004x5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 08:30:52 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA08268 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:30:42 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000221102818.2ea7fb3a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:28:18 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: Finbar's antenna In-reply-to: <001c01bf7a6a$3345d5c0$a4eb869f@net> References: <29185.200002181127@gemini> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 23:45 18/02/00 -0000, EI0CF wrote: > ... >Basically it is a 4 wire horizontal antenna using electricans earthing >wire. Length 90 metres overall. Total amount of wire in antenna 360 >metres. > ... >To bring to resonance, the loading coil has a value of 950 uH. Based on 0.95mH loading coil the antenna capacitance must be 1425pF (reactance only 816 Ohms). For 90 metres antennalength that means close to 16pF/m. I wonder what the spacing of the 4 wires is ? I am using a 23m topload consisting of 3 parallel wires each separated 80cm and got an antennacapacitance of about 360pF. Minus the (guessed) 80pF for the vertical wire that is about 280pF for the topload, or 13pF/m. Is anyone else using a 'parallel wire' topload ? I Would be intersted to know the number of wires, the separation and capacitance. Anyway, I heard Finbar last weekend with a solid 559. So it proves once more that long horizontal antennas (against ground) do work on 136kHz. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27716 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2000 09:05:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Feb 2000 09:05:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Mofx-0005At-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 08:58:41 +0000 Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Mofw-0005Ao-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 08:58:40 +0000 Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.53) with SMTP id 04820412 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:58:21 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <38B2264C.D4FCC050@phonakcom.ch> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:01:48 -0800 From: "Toni Baertschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: DX Cluster spots for Feb 19/20 on GB7DXM References: <000d01bf7bee$94338320$5c8501d5@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >>From HB9ASB, JN36pt Thanks Alan for the cluster spots. Cesare was just a few Hz above my frequency, not very strong but a solid "O", about the same strength as DF8ZR. Not bad for daytime, and almost unbelievable if you see his antenna on his home page! I'm sure he will do much better at night. With DF8ZR I had the first station coming back in DFCW (my Tx is not yet equipped) and I had some troubles at the end when the signal dropped. DFCW speeds up QSO's but with difficult condx the normal QRSS mode is probably still better. When I call in normal CW I often hear stations coming back but they usually give up very quickly. So this weekend: When I called in normal CW on the Ropex frequency at least two stations came back (one with letters like OLB and the other like BV?). But they have not been patient with me and after a few QRZ they disappeared. Sorry friends I had to switch my audio filter down to 10 Hz and then it takes some time to find you and even more time to identify your call. In addition, I have always a weak carrier on 136.547 which makes it difficult if your signal is close to it. 73 de Toni TX: 1200 W CW, 800W QRSS, 4*IRFP250 (55 V) RX: Harris RF590, modified with Icom 250 Hz filter (455 kHz IF) Audio: Timewave DSP599 Antenna: helical vertical with additional Top coil at 18m. Two 30m top load wires sloping down to 12m. Matching with tap on additional base coil, plus PI-tuner in shack. Ground: water & power mains Location: 800m asl, north-west slope of a hill (sandstone). > I have a nice .jpg file of your signal and one of DF8ZR's DFCW. I would so > much have liked to catch just a feint trace of Cesare, even 'T' , I hope he > was transmitting in the normal area, at the top end. > > 73 de Alan G3NYK JO02PB > Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28272 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2000 09:44:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Feb 2000 09:44:36 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MpHl-0005Sx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:37:45 +0000 Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.39]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MpHj-0005Ss-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:37:43 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12MpHa-000Fa6-0B for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:37:35 +0000 Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:35:37 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: LF: Weekend activity MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thank you Alan for the good reports - no change in Tx or antenna but some ground system improvements - now includes long sheep fencing and copper pipe thrown into pond (narrowly missing goldfish!) - antenna current now nearly 3 amps with 200 watts. I5MXX is a consistently good signal here although I have yet to work him. His signal was only slightly down on Dick's PA0SE when they both called John 'GVC on Saturday. No sign whatsoever of OZ8NJ down here when others were working him. Finbar's signal with new antenna is an excellent 589. Mike 'XDV also has an excellent signal down here - coke bottle is working well! Nice strong signal from GB2CPM despite ground problems. Do you use a full size quarter wave Peter? 73, Tom G3OLB Loc. IO89iu 7 miles North of Honiton, Devon. 200 watts. 1100ft (335m) long wire, height varies 10 - 15 metres. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24895 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2000 11:01:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Feb 2000 11:01:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MqSa-00065K-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:53:00 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from server.italway.it ([193.70.27.5] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MqSY-00065F-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:52:58 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from allstars (access13.italway.it [193.70.27.112]) by server.italway.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA21308 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:43:53 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20000221115824.00696018@mail.italway.it> X-Sender: i5mxx@mail.italway.it (Unverified) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) [I] Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:58:24 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "i5mxx - Marzio" Subject: LF: LF WEEK END REPORT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF guys. Band is improving noise during last 10 days, making contacts more difficult from my side. I hope it'snt an early " summer" noise coming , here in southern Europe !! On 19 Feb. contacted: G4GVC 529 S57A 559 On 20 Feb. OZ8NJ 559 G3YXM 539 Good Dx in LF. 73 de Marzio I5MXX - JN53JU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25057 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2000 11:37:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Feb 2000 11:37:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Mr3W-0006SC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:31:10 +0000 Received: from apollo.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.125]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Mr3V-0006S7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:31:09 +0000 Received: from pc171.geog.le.ac.uk ([143.210.25.171] helo=kate) by apollo.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.03 #1) id 12Mr3H-00018Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:30:55 +0000 From: "kate moore" To: "lfgroup" Subject: LF: Weekend report Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:25:48 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: EU activity heard since Friday: DK8KW (569), EI0CF (589), PI4DEC (579), IK5ZPV (559), SM6PXJ (569), PA0LEG (559), OE5ODL (559QSB), DJ5DI (559), I5MXX (559), PA0BWL (559), ON6ND (579), HB2ASB (559), PA0SE (579), DJ9IE (339), DK5PT (559), OZ8NJ (569). Plus plenty of stations from G, GW and GI. First a bit of late news; at 19.25UT on Thursday evening (17/2) I got a reply from a CQ call, which by its strength (589) I thought at first was one of the stronger G stations. It turned out to be SM6PXJ, and Christer confirmed that my signal was also much stronger than normal. He later discovered this contact coincided with a large X-ray event, which started at around 18.45UT (thanks for the interesting graphs, Christer). This is the first QSO I've had on LF which actually felt just like working a 'lift' on the higher bands. It would obviously be very useful to know when these events are in progress as they enhance signals by quite a few dBs. Best news of the week is the return to the band of Finbar, EI0CF, with an experimental new antenna. We all missed you Finbar - it's really great to have you back on...... nice signal too. The only new one for me was working PI4DEC from Dordrecht on Friday morning. This was operated by Leo PA0LEG, and made my 100th callsign worked 2-way on 136kHz. Best contact of the weekend was on Saturday at 12.50UT with I5MXX. This is after a break of seven months since our last QSO - Italy seems the hardest country for me to work normally. During the contact, and for some time afterwards, the frequency (136.8kHz) was plagued by someone swishing a carrier around and obviously tuning up an antenna 'live'. I would doubt it was anyone on the reflector, but it did make things that bit more difficult; a pretty antisocial thing to do on a prime frequency at peak weekend activity time........ On Sunday morning I was called by a very weak station (339), which I was surprised to identify as DJ9IE - normally a 579 signal. We scraped a QSO and it turned out Uli's TX was running just 9 watts; pretty good going over a path of 611km on 136kHz 'normal' CW! Regards John G4GVC near Leicester, IO92JP ** TX: Synth + 400W RF from modified 'G3YXM' Mosfet PA ** ** RX: TS-850S with 3 x CW filters and 0.5ppm TCXO ** ** Ant: Inv-L 60m long, 6m high at feed end, 12m high at far end ** From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16318 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2000 12:46:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Feb 2000 12:46:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ms73-0006wI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:38:53 +0000 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ms72-0006wD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:38:52 +0000 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12Ms6f-0004WM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:38:30 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:20:56 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:20:54 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: One Week Later, and more.... In-reply-to: <38AE35DC.72A00339@irisz.hu> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > > Do yo have ON5OO's software available, that was written to record the > > signal strength behavious vs. time during the August eclipse last year? > > It just uses a simple sound-card to record the audio level, that is > > directly proportional to the signal level when the AGC of the receiver > > is switched off. > > The software is freeware, I don't know if it is still available on the > > net, however, I could mail you a copy, if you like. > > Best 73 > > Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) It's also available on my web site from the Links page. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13833 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2000 12:52:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Feb 2000 12:52:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ms71-0006wB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:38:51 +0000 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ms6x-0006w6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:38:47 +0000 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12Ms6f-0004WO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:38:30 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:30:39 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:30:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: DX Cluster spots for Feb 19/20 on GB7DXM In-reply-to: <000d01bf7bee$94338320$5c8501d5@default> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alan, G3NYK wrote: > HB2ASB QRS calling 15TGC pulled all stops out but no signs of > Cesare here (.685 to .770) To Alan, Cesare appears to have a rather interesting oscillator - a bit like the one I used to use. So his transmission drifts and wobbles by a few Hz. This has the advantage that it is easily recognised, but the disadvantage that the averaging on the DSP is not fully realised. To Cesare, It would help your signal if you could make it more stable. Successful oscillators include divided down crystals, synthesisers and mixed VXOs. There are some oscillator circuits referenced from my Links web page. I can't claim any success for my stability improvements - they are all down the generosity of David, G0MRF, who built the synthesiser I use, but it does make a difference. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12824 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2000 14:24:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Feb 2000 14:24:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Mteb-0007nT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 14:17:37 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MteY-0007nO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 14:17:34 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA78284 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:17:26 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000221161500.3787f230@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:15:00 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Weekend activity In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 09:35 21/02/00 +0000, G3OLB wrote: >Thank you Alan for the good reports - no change in Tx or antenna but >some ground system improvements - now includes long sheep fencing and >copper pipe thrown into pond (narrowly missing goldfish!) - antenna >current now nearly 3 amps with 200 watts. Great ground system Tom, 3 Amps with only 200 Watts means a loss of about 22 Ohms. I can't get more than 1.9 Amps into my antenna with 450 Watts RF (125 Ohms loss) Live (on LF) is not fair ... :-( 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6243 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2000 14:35:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Feb 2000 14:35:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Mtpt-0007qU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 14:29:17 +0000 Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Mtpo-0007pZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 14:29:12 +0000 Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.53) with SMTP id 04844213 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:28:42 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <38B273BC.50EBF2D@phonakcom.ch> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 03:32:12 -0800 From: "Toni Baertschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: DX Cluster spots for Feb 19/20 on GB7DXM References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >>From HB9ASB, JN36pt Hello Mike, I did not recognize any instability during my QSO with Cesare. But It was the first time I heard him and maybe the problem was cured in the meantime 73 de Toni Mike Dennison wrote: > Alan, G3NYK wrote: > > HB2ASB QRS calling 15TGC pulled all stops out but no signs of > > Cesare here (.685 to .770) > > To Alan, > > Cesare appears to have a rather interesting oscillator - a bit like the > one I used to use. So his transmission drifts and wobbles by a few > Hz. This has the advantage that it is easily recognised, but the > disadvantage that the averaging on the DSP is not fully realised. > > To Cesare, > > It would help your signal if you could make it more stable. > Successful oscillators include divided down crystals, synthesisers > and mixed VXOs. There are some oscillator circuits referenced from > my Links web page. > > I can't claim any success for my stability improvements - they are all > down the generosity of David, G0MRF, who built the synthesiser I > use, but it does make a difference. > > Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) > http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4478 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2000 16:14:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Feb 2000 16:14:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MvJs-00009h-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:04:20 +0000 Received: from cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.172]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MvJn-00009Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:04:15 +0000 Received: from modem-76.daeron.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.150.204] helo=lvm) by cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12MvJf-0003KN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:04:07 +0000 Message-ID: <000201bf7c85$4e32a620$cc96883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re.LF Finbars Ant/Rik Strobbe Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:39:21 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi Rik,
Yes I am using a 3 parallel wire top loaded ant. T config. The ant is 30m long and 13.5 m high.Loading coil 3mh,hence capacity to resonate 460pf approx.Allowing 100pf for vert sect.(your formula 13/12/99) this gives 360pf for 30m ie 12pf per metre. I hope this info is of some intrest to you,and others possibly.73s Laurie.  
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9626 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2000 17:34:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Feb 2000 17:34:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MwcK-0000tJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:27:28 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MwcH-0000tE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:27:25 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA33854 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:27:12 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000221192446.3ff7d8b8@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 19:24:46 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: Aurora warning In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.20000221161500.3787f230@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Aurora expected on VHF tonight (21st), so watch 136kHz toward the north ! 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18640 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2000 18:41:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Feb 2000 18:41:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Mxd3-0001NI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:32:17 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Mxcy-0001ND-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:32:12 +0000 Received: from [62.6.73.111] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12Mxcp-0002GR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:32:04 +0000 Message-ID: <000301bf7c99$31cca940$6f49063e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Additional spots from DB0MBX via Wolfgang Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:44:46 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Edited to remove spots already in my earlier list. ------------------ Hallo Alan, here the spot´s of DB0MDX from last week. Not so much as last week. 73 de dl1san wolf ------------------ 137.0 OE5ODL 20-Feb-2000 1129Z cq, 519 in jn49ix 136.5 PA0SE 20-Feb-2000 1056Z 136.5 DJ9IE 20-Feb-2000 0949Z 136.8 G4GVC 20-Feb-2000 0923Z 439 cq 136.8 I5MXX 19-Feb-2000 1808Z 599/539 137.0 IK5ZPV 15-Feb-2000 1749Z cq 599 136.8 I5MXX 14-Feb-2000 2240Z 599 qsx 3530 136.8 IK5ZPV 14-Feb-2000 2133Z qsx 3535 73 de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24720 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2000 18:56:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Feb 2000 18:56:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MxsS-0001ZD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:48:12 +0000 Received: from [195.166.128.23] (helo=merlins.force9.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12MxsR-0001Z8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:48:11 +0000 Received: (qmail 13291 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2000 18:47:59 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by merlins.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Feb 2000 18:47:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 4337 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2000 18:47:59 -0000 Received: from 231.01-02.quay.dial.plus.net.uk (HELO main) (212.159.68.231) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Feb 2000 18:47:59 -0000 Message-ID: <004501bf7c9c$db415ea0$0600a8c0@main> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Personal URLs Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:52:47 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all. I have just added Cesare's web-site to my LF links list and it occurs to me that there may be some more that I do not know about. If any of you have web pages dedicated to your LF activity, please let me know and I'll add the links to the LF news page at http://www.picks.f9.co.uk E-mail me at G3YXM@picks.f9.co.uk Thanks. Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26008 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2000 19:00:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Feb 2000 19:00:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Mxqc-0001Yy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:46:18 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Mxqb-0001Yt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:46:17 +0000 Received: from [62.6.73.111] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12MxqS-0002GR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:46:09 +0000 Message-ID: <000701bf7c9b$299b9360$6f49063e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: re HB2ASB Toni's reply to my report Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:51:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks for the reply Toni, there are some comments that may be of general interest to the Group in there. Bernd did fade out at the end of his last transmission with me also, but his cq whilst you were calling Cesare was quite readable again. I also see see traces of stations replying to calls but not persevereing when getting a QRZ response (I suppose it is the....'he cant be hearing me' syndrome) It does take a little time to swing the filters into line on a weak station and adjust the tone for personal best reception. I also find that there is often slow fade of a few dBs at night which means that you might be better on your next try. I suspect Toni also suffers a lot more static that I do, so that whole chunks of signal my be wiped out. I must admit I 'listen' with a waterfal dispay showing the whole band and only home-in on interesting traces. I also see a weak continuous trace 136.547kHz also another exactly 100Hz higher, I did wonder whether they were the mark and space frequencies of a 100Hz shift FSK station. The lower frequency is weaker here. Anybody know this one?? 73 de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1629 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2000 22:45:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Feb 2000 22:45:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12N1PG-00037S-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:34:18 +0000 Received: from cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.171]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12N1PE-00037N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:34:16 +0000 Received: from modem-49.anadune.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.106.49] helo=lvm) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12N1P5-0005Ny-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:34:08 +0000 Message-ID: <000201bf7cbb$ca510860$316a883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re. calls to EI0CF Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:31:50 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi Dave,
Thanks fer QSO 1640 today.Called you at 2215 to tell you that you had been called by ON4ZK,but condx too poor between us Although your sig still 5/7/9. Also heard ON7YD call you earlier. 73s Laurie.
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20755 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2000 23:46:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Feb 2000 23:46:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12N2Pl-0003eZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 23:38:53 +0000 Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12N2Pk-0003eR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 23:38:52 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.bf.11e89de (4353) for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:38:12 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:38:11 EST Subject: LF: 136.547 kHz tx intermodulation To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 62 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Alan, hello friends, >I also see a weak continuous trace 136.547kHz also another exactly 100Hz >higher, I did wonder whether they were the mark and space frequencies of a >100Hz shift FSK station. The lower frequency is weaker here. Anybody know >this one?? > >73 de Alan G3NYK JO02PB yeah, sure know this one. Took a while to figure things out... On 136.75, there is nothing here. However, the other carrier you see appears to be a tx-intermodulation product generated in the output stages of two strong transmitters in Mainflingen near Frankfurt, 165 km from my qth JN59NK. One of these is called DCF42 (I think), a bigger brother of our now-famous DBF39 (138.83/139.17 kHz). It operates on 128.93/129.27 (86 dBuV/m here) and carries the same fsk telegrams for remote-power-control purposes. There is a time lag of approx. 60 ms between the master (DCF42) and the slave (DBF39). The other tx sends 1190 baud data (DGPS?) centered on 123.69 kHz (74 dBuV/m) and has a broad, noise-like spectrum. It is accompanied by an auxiliary carrier on 122.50 (59 dBuV/m), presumably to aid synchronization to the data rate. And there is a weaker harmonic of the auxiliary 2380 Hz below center (121.31 kHz, 26 dBuV/m). The upper IM product (2*f1-f2) is again a heap of noise from 133 to 135.4 kHz (34 dBuV/m, ie. only 40 dB down), with the auxiliaries appearing on 135.36 (29 dBuV/m) and 136.55 (10 dBuV/m), close to the ropex qrg. These IM-products also carry the DCF49 modulation with the shift doubled to +680 Hz. In this part of Germany, we thus see periodic interference during the telegrams. Also, the higher order DGPS-modulation sidebands seem to cause a significant continuous noise increase up to 137 kHz, limiting the rx-sensitivity of stations in the Frankfurt area. To get the ERP (=EIRP/3) estimates in dBm, subtract 5.2 dB from the dBuV/m figures for 165km. Thus DCF42 should have 120 kW, DGPS is aired with 8 kW, and the im carriers are .25 W on 135.36 and 3 mW on 136.55 ... congrats on your good ears Alan! 73, all the best Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9287 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2000 00:02:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Feb 2000 00:02:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12N2ef-0003la-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 23:54:17 +0000 Received: from kang.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.28]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12N2ed-0003lV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 23:54:15 +0000 Received: from p179.lifford1.eircom.net ([159.134.235.179] helo=eircom.net) by kang.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 12N2eL-0007ub-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 23:53:58 +0000 Message-ID: <001101bf7cc7$bd78a600$b3eb869f@net> From: "FINBAR O'CONNOR" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: New Antenna. Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 23:57:44 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Thanks to all  for the kind comments on my return to the band.
 
Message for  Rik
Regarding the spacing of the  4 wire  horizontal  , the two  horizontal support bars  are  just over  3 metres long.
The 4 wires are spaced  one metre apart,  one  wire at each end  and the other two  in   1 metre from them.
However the 4 wires  although  90 metres long,  only start to spread out  out when they have risen up  to about
7 metres  above the feed through in the window, then spread apart over a distance of   9 metres  to the first and
main  spreader  at  a height of  10 metres  and then at the  spacing given above  to the other side of the farmers
field. Each wire is terminated  alone.
With this set up  the  tuning inductance  was  measured at  950 uH.
Today  I  added  a single wire  at  right angles to the  main  4 wire section.  This is  60 metres long and  joins
along with the  bunch of 4 wires at the 7 metre point above ground and on into the shack.
Adding this  bit  reduced the tuning inductance  by  100 uH  to  850 uH.
This new wire  runs up at a slope to a  large tree in a neighbours garden about  40 metres away. This  required
me climbing up to a  height of  25 metres. I will be  52 next birthday.......I must be NUTS.
I am still picking bits of branches out of my  ears, mind you the view was great.
 
Message to  Valerio/ IK5ZPV.
Regarding a  sked.   How about  136.700 khz   at   1900,  2000 ,  2100,  2200.
I will call you  starting on the hour.  Then I will listen for you.
I heard  I5MXX  this evening.  Called him , but he did not hear me. Pity.
 
Message to  Laurie/ G3AQC.
Your signal later on this evening was very very weak.  Just about copied you.
Compared to your  signal  earlier, which was  539, no comparision.  I expect
you were running  qrp. Thanks for both contacts.
 
Best regards
Finbar    EI0CF     Malin Head.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23079 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2000 09:02:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Feb 2000 09:02:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12NB28-0007iM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 08:51:04 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.41] helo=pyyhe.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12NB24-0007iH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 08:51:00 +0000 Received: from default (MCCCXLVIII.rdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.137.148]) by pyyhe.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA16170 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 11:01:51 +0200 (EET) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000222105050.00846100@laatikko.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: oh2lx@laatikko.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 10:50:50 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: Re: LF: 136.547 kHz tx intermodulation In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all, I have heard weak FSK on 136.6 kHz during morning hours only, can not use Spegram etc on LF until get my Rx --> PC interface QRM somehow cleaned. Will continue daily Field strength measurements until at least the 3rd week of March. Please if possible make 3-5 s long 'tests' with key down. In propagation studies, only signal strength - preferably estimated field strength is of value. Thank you for your cooperation de Vaino, OH2LX PS CFH 137.0 was strong last nite with strength having a broad peak 2120-2150, max -123 dBmW At 18:38 21.2.2000 EST, you wrote: >Hello Alan, hello friends, > >>I also see a weak continuous trace 136.547kHz also another exactly 100Hz >>higher, I did wonder whether they were the mark and space frequencies of a >>100Hz shift FSK station. The lower frequency is weaker here. Anybody know >>this one?? >> >>73 de Alan G3NYK JO02PB > >yeah, sure know this one. Took a while to figure things out... > >On 136.75, there is nothing here. However, the other carrier you see appears >to be a tx-intermodulation product generated in the output stages of two >strong transmitters in Mainflingen near Frankfurt, 165 km from my qth JN59NK. > >One of these is called DCF42 (I think), a bigger brother of our now-famous >DBF39 (138.83/139.17 kHz). It operates on 128.93/129.27 (86 dBuV/m here) and >carries the same fsk telegrams for remote-power-control purposes. There is a >time lag of approx. 60 ms between the master (DCF42) and the slave (DBF39). > >The other tx sends 1190 baud data (DGPS?) centered on 123.69 kHz (74 dBuV/m) >and has a broad, noise-like spectrum. It is accompanied by an auxiliary >carrier on 122.50 (59 dBuV/m), presumably to aid synchronization to the data >rate. And there is a weaker harmonic of the auxiliary 2380 Hz below center >(121.31 kHz, 26 dBuV/m). > >The upper IM product (2*f1-f2) is again a heap of noise from 133 to 135.4 kHz >(34 dBuV/m, ie. only 40 dB down), with the auxiliaries appearing on 135.36 >(29 dBuV/m) and 136.55 (10 dBuV/m), close to the ropex qrg. > >These IM-products also carry the DCF49 modulation with the shift doubled to >+680 Hz. In this part of Germany, we thus see periodic interference during >the telegrams. Also, the higher order DGPS-modulation sidebands seem to cause >a significant continuous noise increase up to 137 kHz, limiting the >rx-sensitivity of stations in the Frankfurt area. > >To get the ERP (=EIRP/3) estimates in dBm, subtract 5.2 dB from the dBuV/m >figures for 165km. Thus DCF42 should have 120 kW, DGPS is aired with 8 kW, >and the im carriers are .25 W on 135.36 and 3 mW on 136.55 ... congrats on >your good ears Alan! > >73, all the best > >Markus, DF6NM > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3810 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2000 09:44:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Feb 2000 09:44:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12NBhm-00085z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:34:06 +0000 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12NBhi-00085s-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:34:02 +0000 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12NBhP-0005up-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:33:43 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:19:04 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:19:03 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Aurora warning In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.20000221192446.3ff7d8b8@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <3.0.1.16.20000221161500.3787f230@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Aurora expected on VHF tonight (21st), so watch 136kHz toward the north ! > > 73, Rik ON7YD I have subscribed to the IPS Flare Information service described on this reflector, and the warnings say: IPS FLARE ALERT - PART A START OF FLARE EVENT ISSUE TIME: Tue Feb 22 10:20:59 EST 2000 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++ A Flare (Greater than C8 in X-ray Flux) Has Just Started At: 2319 UT on 21-02-2000 Further Information Will Be Issued At the End of the Event +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ and IPS FLARE ALERT - PART C PRELIMINARY FLARE DETAILS AT END OF FLARE ISSUE TIME: Tue Feb 22 10:25:49 EST 2000 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++ Approximate Flare Start : 21-02-2000 2314 UT Approximate Flare Maximum: 21-02-2000 2319 UT at Flux M 1.3 Approximate Flare End : 21-02-2000 2324 UT ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++ Australian Space Forecast Centre IPS Radio and Space Services ================================================= Very useful. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25402 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2000 10:01:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Feb 2000 10:01:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12NBxg-00088W-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:50:32 +0000 Received: from front3.grolier.fr ([194.158.96.53]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12NBxb-00088L-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:50:27 +0000 Received: from club-internet.fr (ppp-44-44-158.wmar.club-internet.fr [213.44.44.158]) by front3.grolier.fr (8.9.3/No_Relay+No_Spam_MGC990224) with ESMTP id KAA21383 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 10:50:14 +0100 (MET) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <38B25BFC.7FF99446@club-internet.fr> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 10:50:58 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "M & S" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [fr] (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: fr,fr,es-ES MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: LF in France Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all, The LF regulations in France have been published by the ANF, our frequency coordination agency, in the 'Journal Officiel'. The band is allocated to the amateur service on a secondry basis, as per the CEPT recommendation. However, the band has not yet been officially opened for use by amateurs. In the meantime, I've contacted our ministry of telecommunications (once again!), who told me that we CAN start using the band from now on, although there's still a signature missing but the document is circulating in the offices. So, we can use the band, but cannot use the band... It's up to us! CU on the air very soon! 73, Mark, F6JSZ Editor, French CQ TX: ICOM IC-706MkIIG (Yes, it does transmit on 136'!) AMP: Under construction (G0MRF design) TX ANT: Full-size dipole (square configuration) RX: Kenwood TS-140S + filters + DSP RX ANT: Loop + preamp LOC: JN04PX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21471 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2000 10:09:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Feb 2000 10:09:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12NC83-0008Lx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 10:01:15 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12NC80-0008Ls-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 10:01:12 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA119446 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 11:01:04 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000222115837.2f073190@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 11:58:37 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Personal URLs In-reply-to: <004501bf7c9c$db415ea0$0600a8c0@main> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Dave, I have some LF stuff at : http://www.qsl.net/on7yd/136khz.htm I just started with my own webpage, so it's still under heavy construction. 73, Rik ON7YD At 18:52 21/02/00 -0000, you wrote: >Dear all. > >I have just added Cesare's web-site to my LF links list and it occurs to me >that there may be some more that I do not know about. If any of you have web >pages dedicated to your LF activity, please let me know and I'll add the >links to the LF news page at http://www.picks.f9.co.uk > >E-mail me at G3YXM@picks.f9.co.uk > >Thanks. Dave G3YXM. > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7459 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2000 11:23:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Feb 2000 11:23:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12NDG6-0000LU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 11:13:38 +0000 Received: from mta02.talk21.com ([62.172.192.41] helo=t21mta02-app.talk21.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12NDG2-0000LH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 11:13:34 +0000 Received: from dave ([213.1.2.91]) by t21mta02-app.talk21.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20000222111229.PMYS1793.t21mta02-app.talk21.com@dave> for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 11:12:29 +0000 Message-ID: <001901bf7d25$c9e2a900$5b0201d5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000701bf7c9b$299b9360$6f49063e@default> Subject: LF: Re: re HB2ASB Toni's reply to my report Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 11:07:51 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Alan Melila writes: I also see a weak continuous trace 136.547kHz also another exactly 100Hz higher, I did wonder whether they were the mark and space frequencies of a 100Hz shift FSK station. The lower frequency is weaker here. Anybody know this one?? My analogue satellite receiver puts a carrier out around this frequency, and when I have had other Pace models in for repair I have noticed similar carriers from them. I only have my satellite receiver powered up when I am watching it, unfortunately most people leave them on all the time. It is worth while checking with your neighbours who have satellite! Cheers Dave dsergeant@iee.org http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9015 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2000 12:39:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Feb 2000 12:39:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12NEVC-00012Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 12:33:18 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12NEV8-00012T-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 12:33:15 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA33376 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:33:07 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000222143041.0c8f568e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 14:30:41 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: propagation 21 feb. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Last night (21 feb.) I noticed very strong QSB on the signal of EI0CF : from 569 to 429 in about 20 minutes. Either Finbar was changed power / antenna or it was propagation. Also some QSB on the signal of I5MXX but by far not so strong (539 / 429). Further I noticed following in QRSS (arround 21.20 UT on 137725) : strong station (549 audible) : ... MM MM K weak station ('M', not audible) : R R TU Q... (faded in QSB) Who was working who ? 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28319 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2000 21:07:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Feb 2000 21:07:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12NMLf-0004oQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 20:55:59 +0000 Received: from mashie.force9.net ([195.166.128.30]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12NMLc-0004oL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 20:55:56 +0000 Received: (qmail 26223 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2000 20:55:48 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Feb 2000 20:55:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 10974 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2000 20:55:47 -0000 Received: from 170.01-04.quay.dial.plus.net.uk (HELO main) (212.159.76.170) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Feb 2000 20:55:47 -0000 Message-ID: <006101bf7d77$e52ee820$0600a8c0@main> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: GM QRS activity Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 20:51:05 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all. I will be in GM for a few days and intend to try some QRS operation. I will have to repair the antenna so may not be on the air until Friday but, when it is fixed, I will call "on the hour" on 137.72 or 137.770. I hope to work a few new ones. 73, Dave G3YXM (GM3YXM/P) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1562 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2000 22:18:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Feb 2000 22:18:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12NNX2-0005Mu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 22:11:48 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12NNX1-0005Mp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 22:11:47 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA25069 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 22:11:38 GMT X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <1996010705203668199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 05:20:36 GMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: Re: LF: propagation 21 feb. Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit >From Rik > Further I noticed following in QRSS (arround 21.20 UT on 137725) : > strong station (549 audible) : ... MM MM K > weak station ('M', not audible) : R R TU Q... (faded in QSB) > Who was working who ? It was G3LDO trying to make an unscheduled QRSS QSO with I5TGG We didn't quite make it, the QSB was too deep, but we are going to try again -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21910 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2000 08:02:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Feb 2000 08:02:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12NWMq-0000vM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 07:37:52 +0000 Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12NWMo-0000vH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 07:37:50 +0000 Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.53) with SMTP id 05071647 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 08:37:24 +0100 (MET) X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: <38B4B65E.A2AF0D64@phonakcom.ch> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 20:41:02 -0800 From: "Toni Baertschi" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: super condx last night Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >>From HB9ASB, JN36pt Super condx last night with very low band noise: MM0ALM 599+, G3OLB 579. I5TGC was not only visible on spectrogram but also audible about 349/449! Cesare, it's really impressive what you can do with your small antenna (or Tesla transformer, hi). Much more interesting than the big tower game. 73 de Toni From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24522 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2000 19:09:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Feb 2000 19:09:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ngwn-00063Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 18:55:41 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111] helo=gadolinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ngwm-00063L-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 18:55:40 +0000 Received: from [213.1.158.165] (helo=default) by gadolinium with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12Ngwe-0007ZL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 18:55:32 +0000 Message-ID: <000301bf7e2e$caa883a0$a59e01d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: GM3YXM/p nice signal here Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 18:49:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, Dave has got his station on quickly and a nice 'O' signal seen at 18:40 0m 137.726 Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15152 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2000 19:56:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Feb 2000 19:56:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Nhna-0006VX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 19:50:14 +0000 Received: from mta03.talk21.com ([62.172.192.172] helo=t21mta03-app.talk21.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12NhnZ-0006V5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 19:50:13 +0000 Received: from dave ([213.1.41.187]) by t21mta03-app.talk21.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20000223194954.VUHJ28485.t21mta03-app.talk21.com@dave> for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 19:49:54 +0000 Message-ID: <001901bf7e37$1ecb3c40$bb2901d5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <38B4B65E.A2AF0D64@phonakcom.ch> Subject: LF: Re: super condx last night Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 19:48:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Toni HB2ASB wrote: >Super condx last night with very low band noise: MM0ALM 599+, G3OLB 579. >I5TGC was not only visible on spectrogram but also audible about >349/449! Cesare, it's really impressive what you can do with your small >antenna (or Tesla transformer, hi). Much more interesting than the big >tower game. >73 de Toni I also heard good signals from Toni on Tuesday evening before I went out. I find propogation on the path to HB9 one of the most variable, sometimes you are 579 as on Tuesday, whereas other times like Sunday mornings I can barely hear you. I have not heard Cesare here, but I would endorse the comments that those of us using miniscule antennas and low power get a lot of fun and sense of achievement from our limited means. I accept that I am not going to be able to compete with those in the big tower league, but this is a hobby after all and it always gives me a thrill to QSO a new station on the band, even though it is quite often not armchair copy. This afternoon (Wednesday) I QSOd Dave GM3YXM/P again - it looks as if Dave has managed to get on a little earlier than he forecast so presumably his antenna repairs were not too extensive. It matters little that I only got 329, it was a QSO, and relatively easy at that. Perhaps I should have a try at HB9 (though that indeed would be a miracle!). 73s Dave dsergeant@iee.org http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20373 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2000 21:26:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Feb 2000 21:26:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Nj8f-0007Aa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 21:16:05 +0000 Received: from kodos.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.29]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Nj8d-0007AV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 21:16:03 +0000 Received: from p175.lifford1.eircom.net ([159.134.235.175] helo=eircom.net) by kodos.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 12Nj8R-0002Jn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 21:15:52 +0000 Message-ID: <000201bf7e43$fe72aca0$afeb869f@net> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20000222143041.0c8f568e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: LF: Re: propagation 21 feb. Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 00:55:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Rik, Hope you got my posting regarding my antenna measurements, spacing etc. Regarding the deep QSB on my signal on the 21st Feb, I can confirm that I was not changing power, it remained the same during the period in use. Perhaps its the nature of my all Horizontal antenna, maybe just conditions ? I was very pleased to work into Finland and Denmark this evening (22nd), Reino OG5UFO was booming in at a steady 559. The only other modification I can think of at the moment, is to mount, say, 600 uH of the 850 uH , high up at 7 metres and finish off with 250 uH in the shack. The aim being to minimise shunting effects. But is it worth it, not sure! Very best regards Finbar EI0CF Malin Head. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rik Strobbe To: Sent: 22 February 2000 14:30 Subject: LF: propagation 21 feb. > Last night (21 feb.) I noticed very strong QSB on the signal of EI0CF : > from 569 to 429 in about 20 minutes. Either Finbar was changed power / > antenna or it was propagation. > Also some QSB on the signal of I5MXX but by far not so strong (539 / 429). > > Further I noticed following in QRSS (arround 21.20 UT on 137725) : > strong station (549 audible) : ... MM MM K > weak station ('M', not audible) : R R TU Q... (faded in QSB) > Who was working who ? > > 73, Rik ON7YD > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12663 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2000 00:27:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Feb 2000 00:27:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Nm09-0008VW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 00:19:29 +0000 Received: from host.king.igs.net ([216.58.2.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Nm07-0008VR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 00:19:27 +0000 Received: from server1 (ttyC24.king.igs.net [216.58.2.152]) by host.king.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id TAA28420 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 19:19:16 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kayser@king.igs.net) Message-ID: <018e01bf7e5c$d133ff00$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: LF info from VE1ZZ, a digest Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 19:18:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: I have received a box of cassette audio tapes, eight of them, from Jack, VE1ZZ. Jack was responding to my inquiry as to what he can hear on LF from his QTH near Halifax, Nova Scotia. Jack is world famous for his 160 meter work, he can hear, and hear very well it seems on any frequency he chooses. Jack has created these tapes and has narrated what he is hearing. This is interesting listening hi. An aside to LF, I have just been listening as Jack was trying to work XZ0A through the European pileup on 1826 kHz. The European signals are as loud as any pileup on 20 meters, and the XZ0A signal is just as loud as any of the Europeans! This was truly an outstanding session on Top Band. It was interesting to listen to the start of the 160 Meter contest. The US stations calling CQ Test on top of the European stations calling them...... On LF, Jack is hearing the Icelandic LF station 186 as early as 1730 utc (Jack is utc -3). 180 kHz French, Arabic station on 149, 198 BBC, the stations are just rolling in like gang busters by sunset and they continue to get louder. From my Broadcast Band dxing days as a child, these signals have the same level as WBZ in Boston, KDKA in Pittsburgh, WGN Chicago, KSL in Salt Lake, WABC New York did when they were clear channel stations. The QSB is quite fast but the signal level is Full Scale on his Racal RA-17 meter. Jack continuously switches between his different Beverage antennas, the 700 ft one is terminated in salt water, I have a feeling the 1400 ft one is connected to the last radial on the Icelandic stations transmitting antenna! During the evening Jack speculated on how a 6000 ft or 12000 ft Beverage would work, maybe even some bays of them. On the second day of tapes, Jack has a station on 159 kHz that is S9 at 1529 utc, that is just after noon his local time on January 30th. I also notice during the evening sessions that the signals have the typical HF fast selective fading on them. The most directly applicable part of the tapes for me is Jack describing what we have come to know as DCF39 on 138.83 kHz. He is copying this signal on an analogue basis, "just above CFH", and the signal is at a very high level, S9+++ on the tape. This is a non enhanced day on LF and Jack comments that he has been listening to this signal for some years and it is always the same with the regular data burst coming every 12 seconds or so. The signal is not just loud, it is far louder on the tape than it was on the great LF opening we had on February 11th. Jack comments that he never hears the signal in the daytime, just at night but it is very loud in the evenings. He was switching between his 700 and 1400 ft Beverage antennas, sometimes one plays better than the other. Summary: I have now listened to about 8 hours of tapes from Jack of what he is hearing on LF from 135 kHz to about 210 kHz. He hears a lot of very strong signals. The signals are not only strong they are very strong. Based on what I am hearing here he has at least 20 dB plus on my current system here in the village I live in. Granted I am an additional 1000 miles, 1600 kms, inland, but he is hearing 59+ what I am only seeing on the CRT! I have written Jack a memo suggesting he listen more to DCF39, and information about considering a digital RX or a way to get himself to a 1 Hz resolution on his RX using a synthesizer as a signal generator (and as a VFO on transmit). I have included a copy of this memo in my reply mail to him. Jack is a user of Packet Radio so he must have some form of PC, I have told him about the visual DFT aides that are in common use by amateurs using LF. I have also asked Jack for some specific information on his existing Beverage antennas. Jack's efforts have given me a good idea of what he is hearing from Europe on LF from a coastal location that is known to be an excellent radio site. His effort in doing the listening and making the tapes is much appreciated. If anyone has specific questions that I can answer from the eight tapes Jack has sent me I am willing to try. I have also asked Jack for some specific information as noted above and will QSP this to the group when it comes. One thing for sure, Jack is hearing DCF39 just as well as any of you in Europe are hearing CFH. That discussion should now be over and we can focus on other issues from now on. We on this side now have an excellent baseline to work from, if we are not hearing as well as Jack is we will not work over the North Atlantic on 136 kHz. Back to work. 73 Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3467 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2000 09:04:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Feb 2000 09:04:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12NtyM-0003X7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 08:50:10 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12NtyJ-0003X1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 08:50:07 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA36476 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 09:49:58 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000224104726.2d6f37e0@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 10:47:26 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: propagation 21 feb. In-reply-to: <000201bf7e43$fe72aca0$afeb869f@net> References: <3.0.1.16.20000222143041.0c8f568e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Finbar, I got the details about the antenna OK, thanks for the information. The QSB on your signal (21 feb) was extreme, never noticed that strong and relatively fast QSB before. At a certain moment you were called by 1 G, 1 ON, and 1 PA and 2 DL stations, so you must have had a strong signal all over this region. Anyway, it proves that long horizontal wires work on 136, despite what some say about it. DJ9IE has an antenna similar to yours and he is using it with very good results. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2733 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2000 12:09:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Feb 2000 12:09:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Nwxk-00050b-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:01:44 +0000 Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Nwxg-00050W-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:01:41 +0000 Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.53) with SMTP id 05213799 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:01:31 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <38B645C6.D0E8C85C@phonakcom.ch> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 01:05:10 -0800 From: "Toni Baertschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: super condx last night References: <38B4B65E.A2AF0D64@phonakcom.ch> <001901bf7e37$1ecb3c40$bb2901d5@dave> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Perhaps I should have a try > at HB9 (though that indeed would be a miracle!). Why not, I'm always ready for skeds, 73 de Toni > > > 73s Dave > dsergeant@iee.org > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27040 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2000 15:27:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Feb 2000 15:27:02 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12O02n-0006Wi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 15:19:09 +0000 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12O02k-0006Wd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 15:19:06 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12O02b-000Db7-0V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 15:18:58 +0000 Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 15:18:54 +0000 To: "RSGB LF Group" From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: LF: VE1ZZ MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry Your report on the tapes from Jack VE1ZZ was most interesting. I have worked Jack a number of times over the years on 160 metres and he always has an outstanding signal. He is obviously keen on LF and in Halifax, Nova Scotia must be almost ideally situated for trans-atlantic tests especially with his Beverage receiving antennas. Assuming VEs will be allocated 136 KHz, you need to work on him to get him building a Tx. Would be most interested in receiving any info. on his Beverages (height, direction, insulation, termination etc.) 73, Tom G3OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17226 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2000 21:01:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Feb 2000 21:01:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12O57J-0000Re-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 20:44:09 +0000 Received: from m11.boston.juno.com ([205.231.100.194]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12O57F-0000RZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 20:44:06 +0000 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"yokUgcxCbtTP7XLrpefewBT1gDnPyLq3k18NWuI9gS/0nhvJV7TJsA=="> X-Priority: 3 Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EZMCLSCL; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 15:42:35 EST X-MSMail-Priority: Normal To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 15:40:51 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: bounced Message-ID: <20000224.154052.-125487.6.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-5,7-39 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Bob RIESE" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Karl I am unable to get back to you direct ,,,your address bounces on me and I want to refer you to WA3USG Bob K3DJC On Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:24:10 +0100 "Proffen Karl" writes: >Hi Bob, > >read your mail regarding the KA5QEP blanker in the LWCA message board. >You >mentioned some modifications suggested by N4ICK. > >Can you give me info about these mods? Are they substantial for >getting the >good results you achieved? > >I would like to build such a blanker, but would like to get the best >out of >it right from the start, hi! > >Thanks in advance for your help! > >Vy 73 de Karl, DJ7RD > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8422 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2000 21:45:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Feb 2000 21:45:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12O5pc-0000mk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 21:29:56 +0000 Received: from kang.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.28]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12O5pZ-0000mf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 21:29:54 +0000 Received: from p158.lifford1.eircom.net ([159.134.235.158] helo=eircom.net) by kang.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 12O5pL-0005Tk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 21:29:40 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01bf7f0f$160f4640$9eeb869f@net> From: "FINBAR O'CONNOR" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: re: Test Transmission. Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 21:35:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
 I will conduct  a  test  transmission  on   136.150  khz    starting  at  0001   utc  on the  25th  Feb  for  1 hour, with  a  repeating  callisign   EI0CF.
Perhaps  there  might be  somebody  listening  in Eastern Europe  or  North America.    I will have a go anyway.    End of  transmission  at    250100 utc
Best regards
Finbar     EI0CF      Malin Head.
I
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15163 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2000 07:43:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Feb 2000 07:43:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OFDs-0005AZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 07:31:36 +0000 Received: from gorgoroth-ip.esoterica.pt ([209.198.242.61] helo=gorgoroth.esoterica.pt) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OFDr-0005AU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 07:31:35 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from tut.esoterica.pt (tut.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.132]) by gorgoroth.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16453 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 07:28:34 GMT X-Priority: 3 Received: from por151.esoterica.pt (por151.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.151]) by tut.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA12479 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 07:28:33 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Authentication-Warning: tut.esoterica.pt: por151.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.151] didn't use HELO protocol Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000225073423.00856bf0@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 07:34:23 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: re: Test Transmission. In-reply-to: <000a01bf7f0f$160f4640$9eeb869f@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Finbar by my reckoning 0001Z, 2000/02/25 has already gone. I am hoping that you meant 0001Z, 2000/02/26. Best 73's de Brian CT1DRP At 21:35 24/02/00 -0000, you wrote: > EI0CF. 250100 utc Best >regards Malin Head.I From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5591 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2000 08:10:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Feb 2000 08:10:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OFfC-0005Mv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 07:59:50 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from ds9.sci.fi ([195.74.0.54]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OFfB-0005Mq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 07:59:49 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from default (MKDCLXXXIII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.167.183]) by ds9.sci.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA22209 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 09:59:40 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000225095943.00812980@laatikko.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: oh2lx@laatikko.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 09:59:43 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: Signal Strength Measurements by OH2LX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Measurements of UK Decca's and some other stations : ---------------------------------------------------------- Day ------------------ 20Feb 21Feb 22Feb 23Feb 24Feb Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Time, UTC ------------ 2140- 2150- 2140- 2140- 2150- ---------------------------------------------------------- kHz Ch *d,km AZI* *Indicated ESH2 input, dBmW* ---------------------------------------------------------- 127.8 (6C), 1435, 280, -106 -109 -104 -106 -113 ---------------------------------------------------------- 126.7 (2A), 1565, 269, -110 -105 -103 -103 -111 ---------------------------------------------------------- 128.5 (8E), 1766, 276, -116 -107 -103 -102 -111 ---------------------------------------------------------- 127.0 (3B), 1871, 257, -111 -111 -105 -105 -110 ---------------------------------------------------------- 127.5 (5B), 1890, 247, -104 -107 -107 -105 -107 ---------------------------------------------------------- 128.2 (7D), 2060, 267, -121 -120 -113 -112 -121 ---------------------------------------------------------- 126.4 (1B), 2282, 253, QRM -112 -120 -115 -119 ---------------------------------------------------------- kHz Ch *d,km AZI* *Indicated ESH2 input, dBmW* ---------------------------------------------------------- 128.93 ref, 1553, 228, -80 -79 -93 -81 -83 ---------------------------------------------------------- 138.83 ref 1221, 226, -86 -78 -87 -81 -86 ---------------------------------------------------------- 135.8 SXV 2490, 182, -106 -108 -111 -107 -105 ---------------------------------------------------------- 137.0 CFH* 5750, 295, Nil -124 -127 Nil -126 ---------------------------------------------------------- * CFH moderately strong on the 21st, broad peak 2120-2150 (*Record* observed *S* of CFH: 13Feb, 2208z = 119 dBuW) ---------------------------------------------------------- Note: NOISE LEVEL SEEMS TO VARY ALSO WITH SOLAR ACTIVITY, this is not anything new, observations continue.(!) ---------------------------------------------------------- 20Feb 1822: OG5UFO -103 20Feb 1920: OH7OL -128 20Feb 2121: OK1BS -110 20Feb 2152: OH3LYG -102 21Feb 1959: MM0ALM -121; 2014: -125; 2125: -124 21Feb 2014: OH1BS -110; 2202: -105 21Feb 2135: OG5UFO -107 22Feb 1722: OH1BS -109; 2050: -107 22Feb 1722: MM0ALM -124 22Feb 2038: G3KEV -122; 2125: -127 22Feb 2037: OH7OL -127; 2046: -126 22Feb 2043: OZ8NJ -127 22Feb 2053: OG5UFO -108..-106 23Feb 2009: OH7OL -120; 2013: -118 23Feb 2011: G3KEV -128: 2025: -125; 2034: -123 23Feb 2045: OG5UFO -105; 2055: -107: 2108: -110..-108 23Feb 2155: OZ1KMR -123 23Feb 2156: OH1BS -107 23Feb 2200: OH1XF -115 23Feb 2202: MM0ALM -120 24Feb 1730: OH1BS -108; 2001: -107; 2150: -112..-107(f) 24Feb 1730: OH1LT -125: 2021: -123 24Feb 1935: G3KEV -130; 2212: -130 24Feb 2001: OH1XF -115; 2021: -115 24Feb 2126: OG5UFO -119..-112(f); 2150: -115(f) ---------------------------------------------------------- (R&S ESH2/---- 10m coax---/1:10/---15m wire-----): Noise level with antenna: with 200Hz IF BandWidth: -25..-22 dB(uV), -132..-129dBmW (varies w qrm etc) ---------------------------------------------------------- End of message of 25 Feb 2000, 0800 UTC, from OH2LX ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26531 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2000 09:06:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Feb 2000 09:06:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OGZh-0005o1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 08:58:13 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OGZe-0005nw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 08:58:10 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA100860 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 09:58:01 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000225105527.2eb716ce@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:55:27 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: re: Test Transmission. In-reply-to: <000a01bf7f0f$160f4640$9eeb869f@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 21:35 24/02/00 -0000, EI0CF wrote: > I will conduct a test transmission on 136.150 khz starting at 0001 utc on the 25th Feb for 1 hour, with a repeating callisign EI0CF. >Perhaps there might be somebody listening in Eastern Europe or North America. I will have a go anyway. End of transmission at 250100 utc >Best regards >Finbar EI0CF Malin Head. That is the right attitude. Meanwhile we know that DCF39 is putting a good signal in eastern Canada, what we need to know is if our QRP signal can be heard (seen). And the best way is to give it a try. Best chances are for stations in north-west Europe (EI, GM), but maybe SM and OH have also a good chance as they have an even more northern (and 'darker') path. What we further know (thanks to the reports from VA3LK and VE1ZZ) is that solar disturbances (flares) enhance propagation and that the daily peak is arround 05 - 06 UTC. So best chances to cross the pond might be at days with strong solar disturbances and /or in the early morning (in Europe). A suggestion to the 'beaconeers' : if possible add a 10 second carries to the beacon signal (every minute or so) , this will make it easier to detect the signal with GRAM. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16235 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2000 13:01:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Feb 2000 13:01:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OKGd-0007gV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 12:54:47 +0000 Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OKGZ-0007gQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 12:54:44 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12OKDh-00012R-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 12:51:45 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <29412.200002251259@gemini> From: "James Moritz" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 12:59:50 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: 73kHz on Friday? / Field strength X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Last Friday I was QRV on 73kHz between about 2100 and 2300 utc - didn't hear/see anyone else though. This was a pity because the Rugby TX was transmitting only two unmodulated carriers, spaced by 85Hz, which considerably reduces the amount of QRM at 71.8kHz. This was also the case the week before, and also when I listened briefly last night. Obviously, it isn't guaranteed when these windows of opportunity will occur, but it seems worth having a go. Anyway, I intend to be on 73kHz again tonight from about 2000 onwards - see you there? Also last Friday, I measured G3XDV's field strength at the University of Hertfordshire Telecomms Lab, on 135.9kHz. Using the HLA6120 loop antenna, and HP8591 EMC analyser, the equivalent electric field strength was 42.9dBuV/m (140uV/m). The distance between the University and Mike's QTH is 7.5km, from the Ordnance Survey map. Mike's ERP from these measurements works out to 22mW. I also simulated Mike's antenna using EZNEC, using the details on his web site, in order to obtain the radiation resistance. This comes out to about 50milliohms, compared with 64milliohms as calculated using the simple vertical monopole formula. The exact value of Rrad depends on the loading coil inductance, spacing between wires & masts etc., but the differences are not major, leading to perhaps 1dB variation in results. Using 50milliohms, and an antenna current of 1.5A as quoted by Mike, the calculated radiated power is 113mW, and the ERP 203mW. This should give a field strength at 7.5km of 421uV/m. There is therefore a discrepancy of -9.6dB between expected and actual ERP - even greater than the -6.4dB difference that was found for the M0BMU measurements a few weeks ago (calculated E = 408uV/m, measured E = 195uV/m). It was suggested at that time that part of the difference might be due to the short distance between transmitter and receiver not being enough to achieve 'far field' conditions, however, Mike's QTH is nearly twice as far as mine, so would be expected to show less loss from this cause. I have been searching for information on LF propagation - some interesting results were obtained by Dr. J.H. Causebrook in the late 70's, who was working for the BBC at the time. He started from the observation that the ground wave field strength of medium wave broadcast stations was often much lower than expected in built-up areas. He did some detailed measurements on the signals from Brookmans Park (small world....) in the London area, which confirmed this. He showed that the usual ground wave propagation data for 'poor ground', 'good ground', and sea-water were not adequate to describe propagation in urban areas. He developed a theoretical model in which low density buildings, lamp posts, and so on were modelled as grounded, lossy monopoles. Heavily built up areas were described by a high conductivity layer (the buildings) on top of the lower conductivity ground. This approach was persuaded to give quite good agreement with the observed results. This work is not directly useful to LF amateurs, since the frequency range is different, and the analysis does not yield any simple formula for the signal losses. However, it does show that in urban or suburban areas, LF amateurs can expect to see increased losses in signal strength than occurs in open countryside over the same distance. The path of G3XDV's signal to the receive site goes through Welwyn Garden City and Hatfield town most of the way, whereas my signal goes mostly through a 'semi-rural' environment. This could account for the increased loss in Mike's signal. Another factor is that the amateur's transmitting antenna is often in an urban area too, which is not often the case for professional LF users. Since the 'near field' of an LF antenna must extend at least for hundreds of metres, the radiation from the antenna must be greatly influenced by the surrounding scenery, especially when the features in that scenery include many things that are bigger than the antenna itself. So the conclusion so far is that, if you live in an urban area, your ERP is probably a lot lower than you would expect from simple calculations for a given antenna and power. This is in rough agreement with the PA0SE & DK8KW results. For ultimate DX results, operate /P from a small, flat, uninhabited island surrounded by sea! Obviously, more measurements are required to get a better picture, so my project for this summer is to put together a portable, calibrated field-strength measurement set. The HLA6120/HP8591EM setup is a bit too bulky to drag round the countryside, so I am working on a calibrated ferrite rod antenna of the type used by PA0SE, for use with an old Rycom selective voltmeter I have. Hope to see someone on 73kHz... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21393 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2000 13:32:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Feb 2000 13:32:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OKen-0007qV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:19:45 +0000 Received: from kang.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.28]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OKed-0007qN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:19:35 +0000 Received: from p174.lifford1.eircom.net ([159.134.235.174] helo=eircom.net) by kang.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 12OKeS-0004NE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:19:25 +0000 Message-ID: <001701bf7f93$c57d3360$aeeb869f@net> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20000225105527.2eb716ce@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: LF: Re: Beacon Tests. Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:25:17 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Rik, Thanks for the encouragement and sorry for messing up the date. I will put out a test transmission over the next 3 or 4 nights, starting at just before midnight utc and at least for one hour or so after that start time, begining tonight Friday 26th Feb 2000. I do not think I can put a 10 sec dash into my memory keyer, but I will try to get something similar on for test purposes. Maybe the guys in Canada are reading this reflector, not sure, but it would be nice to get reports and build up a picture, for all of us. Best regards Finbar EI0CF Malin Head. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rik Strobbe To: Sent: 25 February 2000 10:55 Subject: Re: LF: re: Test Transmission. > At 21:35 24/02/00 -0000, EI0CF wrote: > > I will conduct a test transmission on 136.150 khz starting at > 0001 utc on the 25th Feb for 1 hour, with a repeating callisign > EI0CF. > >Perhaps there might be somebody listening in Eastern Europe or > North America. I will have a go anyway. End of transmission at > 250100 utc > >Best regards > >Finbar EI0CF Malin Head. > > That is the right attitude. > > Meanwhile we know that DCF39 is putting a good signal in eastern Canada, > what we need to know is if our QRP signal can be heard (seen). > And the best way is to give it a try. > Best chances are for stations in north-west Europe (EI, GM), but maybe SM > and OH have also a good chance as they have an even more northern (and > 'darker') path. > > What we further know (thanks to the reports from VA3LK and VE1ZZ) is that > solar disturbances (flares) enhance propagation and that the daily peak is > arround 05 - 06 UTC. > > So best chances to cross the pond might be at days with strong solar > disturbances and /or in the early morning (in Europe). > > A suggestion to the 'beaconeers' : if possible add a 10 second carries to > the beacon signal (every minute or so) , this will make it easier to detect > the signal with GRAM. > > 73, Rik ON7YD > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28090 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2000 13:51:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Feb 2000 13:51:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OL0W-00084h-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:42:12 +0000 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OL0O-00084c-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:42:09 +0000 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12OL0F-0003W8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:41:55 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:35:54 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:35:52 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Re: Beacon Tests. In-reply-to: <001701bf7f93$c57d3360$aeeb869f@net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: EI0CF wrote: > . . . I do not think I can put a 10 sec dash into my memory keyer, but I > will try to get something similar on for test purposes. A string of dashes, for example 00000000, is the next best thing. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1341 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2000 13:53:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Feb 2000 13:53:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OL4C-000859-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:46:00 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OL49-000852-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:45:57 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA45670 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 14:45:47 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000225154312.0ed7286e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 15:43:12 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz on Friday? / Field strength In-reply-to: <29412.200002251259@gemini> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 12:59 25/02/00 +0000, G0MBU wrote: >There is therefore a discrepancy of -9.6dB between expected and >actual ERP - even greater than the -6.4dB difference that was >found for the M0BMU measurements a few weeks ago (calculated >E = 408uV/m, measured E = 195uV/m). It was suggested at that >time that part of the difference might be due to the short distance >between transmitter and receiver not being enough to achieve 'far >field' conditions, however, Mike's QTH is nearly twice as far as >mine, so would be expected to show less loss from this cause. To find out where the 'far field' begins following experiment would be interesting : Put an electric and magnetic 'field probe' on a car. The electric 'field probe' could just be a short (50 cm) vertical (eg. 144MHz lambda/4) matched to 136kHz (by LC circuit), for this small antenna the car will be sufficient 'stable' ground. The magnetic 'field probe' can be a small loop or ferite rod antenna. Then measure the signal strength with both antennas at different distances of the transmitter. As long as you are in the 'far field' the ratio between the 2 signalstrengths should be constant, when the 'electric' becomes relatively stronger then you are entering the 'near field'. As you are measuring ratios the antennas do not have to be calibrated, so they are easy to make. But you will need a calibrated receiver (signalstrength) or adjustable attenuator between the RX and the antennas. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4248 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2000 14:02:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Feb 2000 14:02:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OLDq-0008CK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:55:58 +0000 Received: from brockman.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.30]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OLDp-0008CE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:55:57 +0000 Received: from p158.lifford1.eircom.net ([159.134.235.158] helo=eircom.net) by brockman.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 12OLDe-0002Pv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:55:47 +0000 Message-ID: <006301bf7f98$d9fa9da0$aeeb869f@net> From: "FINBAR O'CONNOR" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re; Test Transmissions Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:59:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hello Larry/VA3LK,
                 Would it be possible for you to tell  Jack  VE1ZZ,  that I will be  carrying out a series of test transmissions on 136.150 khz  starting just before  Midnight UTC, starting tonight  Friday 26th  Feb 2000 and for the next  3  to 4 nights. For  1 hour, until  0100 utc, each  night/morning.
I am pulling out all the stops, everything cranked up to the last. Transmissions will consist of  my  repeated callsign  EI0CF, at  5 wpm  or less.
I dare not leave this transmitter unattended, should I leave it  chuntering all night, I am liable to find the entire workshop burnt to the ground in the morning. Otherwise I could leave it going all night. Not advisable.
Best regards from your European cousins,
Finbar     EI0CF     Malin Head.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9865 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2000 14:02:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Feb 2000 14:02:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OLDY-0008CA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:55:40 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OLDT-0008C2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:55:36 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id NAA22463; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:57:05 GMT Received: (qmail 27433 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2000 14:52:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 25 Feb 2000 14:52:26 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id NAA13126; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:49:08 GMT Received: from unknown(146.80.11.40) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma013052; Fri, 25 Feb 00 13:49:01 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:56:05 +0000 Received: by FRN-GOLD-1 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <1K87GJ6R>; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:53:33 -0000 Message-ID: <3617AC3245C2D1118A840000F805359C01206E6C@PDW-MERCURY-1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "'LF Group'" Subject: LF: PSK08 Tests Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:53:30 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Now I know a few copies of PSK08 are out there I'll transmit this evening around 2000z. Frequency will be 137.500 +/- 0.5 Hz, chosen after careful consulation with this group :-|) Probably won't listen too much as no one has replied to say they can transmit yet and I know that three of those who have downloaded the code are listeners only. There is another modulation scheme suitable for this band that does allow constant amplitude, and hence highly efficient class D amplifiers. That is Continuous Phase Modulation (CPM), of which Minimum Shift Keying is an extreme example. Listen to the transmission from Rugby on 16kHz or 22.1 kHz for an excellent example of a 100 Baud version of MSK. CPM is a very processor and memory intensive mode hence it is only now becoming popular, but at the speeds used at LF my feeling is that a PC could cope even if a 56002 EVM does not have the necessary memory capacity. CPM is theoretically a few dB better than PSK in S/N terms, and in fact with the right coding is said to be able to get to within 0.7db of the Shannon limit. Take this together with the constant envelope waveform and it could prove very exciting for very weak signal LF dxing. If anyone reading this has a more intimate knowledge of CPM please get in touch. As far as I 'm concerned its all squiggles in a text book at the moment, and as for turning these into DSP code.... Andy G4JNT Now ignore what follows :-|( -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15245 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2000 14:05:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Feb 2000 14:05:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OLDt-0008CR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:56:01 +0000 Received: from kang.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.28]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OLDr-0008CJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:55:59 +0000 Received: from p158.lifford1.eircom.net ([159.134.235.158] helo=eircom.net) by kang.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 12OLDh-0006h7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:55:50 +0000 Message-ID: <006401bf7f98$dbf9c900$aeeb869f@net> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.5.32.20000225073423.00856bf0@pop3.esoterica.pt> Subject: LF: Re: Test Transmissions Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:40:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Brian, Oops, sorry about that, not a good start. I will be on 136.150 khz starting before midnight utc tonight 26th and for the next 3 to 4 nights for 1 hour , finishing at 0100 utc, each morning, with my repeating callsign EI0CF. At about 5 wpm or slower if possible. It would be great if you picked it up in Portugal. I hope your experiments on LF are going well. Best regards Finbar EI0CF Malin Head. ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Rogerson To: Sent: 25 February 2000 07:34 Subject: Re: LF: re: Test Transmission. > Finbar by my reckoning 0001Z, 2000/02/25 has already gone. > I am hoping that you meant 0001Z, 2000/02/26. > > Best 73's de Brian CT1DRP > > > > At 21:35 24/02/00 -0000, you wrote: > > EI0CF. 250100 utc Best > >regards Malin Head.I > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26331 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2000 14:08:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Feb 2000 14:08:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OLJx-0008FJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 14:02:17 +0000 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OLJW-0008FB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 14:01:55 +0000 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12OLJI-00056b-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 14:01:37 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:43:08 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:43:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz on Friday? / Field strength In-reply-to: <29412.200002251259@gemini> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: M0BMU wrote: > Last Friday I was QRV on 73kHz between about 2100 and > 2300 utc - didn't hear/see anyone else though. This was a pity > because the Rugby TX was transmitting only two unmodulated > carriers, spaced by 85Hz, which considerably reduces the amount > of QRM at 71.8kHz. I missed out on 73kHz last Friday as I had the sked reported by M0BMU on 136kHz, and it takes me 30 minutes to re-tune my system in the dark. I won't be on tonight, either, as my health is poor at present and outside engineering is not possible. Will try for next Friday. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18864 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2000 14:24:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Feb 2000 14:24:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OLZo-0008Nu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 14:18:40 +0000 Received: from ns1.swh.sk ([192.108.125.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OLZj-0008Nn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 14:18:36 +0000 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes [195.41.64.129]) by ns1.swh.sk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA21863 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 15:18:12 +0100 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [195.41.64.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA10902 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 15:18:09 +0100 (MET) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from PENGUIN ([149.202.168.90]) by btss101a.swh.sk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id ZPFKRMZZ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 15:18:06 +0100 From: "Richard Gasparik" Organization: Siemens s.r.o. X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: OM2TW QRV again... Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 15:45:05 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.17] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <00022515463900.23313@Penguin> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LFers... I'll be QRV this weekend on 136kHz again. Starting saturday 26.2.2000 at 1500Z until sunday 27.2.2000 1000Z. See you... 73 de Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11629 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2000 14:34:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Feb 2000 14:34:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OLiN-0008Uz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 14:27:31 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from post.interalpha.co.uk ([195.26.224.18] helo=post.interalpha.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OLiI-0008Ul-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 14:27:27 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from th-mod35.interalpha.net (th-mod35.interalpha.net [195.26.228.226]) by post.interalpha.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA28112 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 14:34:21 GMT Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 14:34:21 GMT Message-ID: <200002251434.OAA28112@post.interalpha.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: drassew2@post.interalpha.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: drassew2@interalpha.co.uk Subject: LF: PSK08 Tests Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Apologies if this has been sent twice, but I have a suspicion the firewall software on the other EMail account is playing up and delaying things. Now I know a few copies of PSK08 are out there I'll transmit this evening around 2000z. Frequency will be 137.500 +/- 0.5 Hz, chosen after careful consulation with this group :-|) Probably won't listen too much as no one has replied to say they can transmit yet and I know that three of those who have downloaded the code are listeners only. There is another modulation scheme suitable for this band that does allow constant amplitude, and hence highly efficient class D amplifiers. That is Continuous Phase Modulation (CPM), of which Minimum Shift Keying is an extreme example. Listen to the transmission from Rugby on 16kHz or 22.1 kHz for an excellent example of a 100 Baud version of MSK. CPM is a very processor and memory intensive mode hence it is only now becoming popular, but at the speeds used at LF my feeling is that a PC could cope even if a 56002 EVM does not have the necessary memory capacity. CPM is theoretically a few dB better than PSK in S/N terms, and in fact with the right coding is said to be able to get to within 0.7db of the Shannon limit. Take this together with the constant envelope waveform and it could prove very exciting for very weak signal LF dxing. If anyone reading this has a more intimate knowledge of CPM please get in touch. As far as I 'm concerned its all squiggles in a text book at the moment, and as for turning these into DSP code.... Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27294 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2000 15:02:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Feb 2000 15:02:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OM9x-0000Dt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 14:56:01 +0000 Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OM9t-0000Dm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 14:55:57 +0000 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-111-4.bellatlantic.net [151.200.111.4]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA14003; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 09:55:30 -0500 (EST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <38B69865.AEC50D1D@bellatlantic.net> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 09:57:41 -0500 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: North America References: <3.0.1.16.20000225105527.2eb716ce@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > Meanwhile we know that DCF39 is putting a good signal in eastern Canada, and in Virginia too, albeit not quite as strong ! 73 Andre' N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2310 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2000 15:22:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Feb 2000 15:22:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OMSa-0000Nd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 15:15:16 +0000 Received: from ins22.netins.net ([167.142.225.22] helo=smtp-out.netins.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OMSY-0000NY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 15:15:14 +0000 Received: from netins.net (desm-24-113.dialup.netins.net [167.142.21.242]) by smtp-out.netins.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA32668 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 09:15:04 -0600 (CST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <38B69C77.7E56BD05@netins.net> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 09:15:03 -0600 From: "Doc Gruis" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Beacon Tests. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Ahh - are those "O" symbols the letter "O" or the number "0?" -;) On my L.F., 10 meter and VHF beacons I added a "hold" circuit that continues the carrier until the ID cycle begins again and is keyed by the ID chip. It is simply an inverter that send an on pulse to the keyer. Doc, K0HTF and "D" Mike Dennison wrote: > > EI0CF wrote: > > . . . I do not think I can put a 10 sec dash into my memory keyer, but I > > will try to get something similar on for test purposes. > > A string of dashes, for example 00000000, is the next best thing. > > Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) > http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20806 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2000 16:02:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Feb 2000 16:02:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ON3o-0000iX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 15:53:44 +0000 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ON3l-0000iS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 15:53:41 +0000 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12ON3a-0006wy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 15:53:32 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 15:35:31 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 15:35:29 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Re: Beacon Tests. In-reply-to: <38B69C77.7E56BD05@netins.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Ahh - are those "O" symbols the letter "O" or the number "0?" -;) > They are zeros. A string of zeros is the nearest an unmodified keyer can get to a continuous carrier, and will still take some advantage of the averaging inherent in the Spectrogram software. Mike Dennison, G3XDV Publications Manager * RadCom * Ham Radio Today * GB2RS News * * RSGB Books and CDs * Radio Society of Great Britain Lambda House, Cranborne Road Potters Bar, Herts UK, EN6 3JE Tel: +44 (0) 1707 659015; Fax: +44 (0) 1707 645105 RSGB - UK AMATEUR RADIO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13609 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2000 18:59:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Feb 2000 18:59:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OPn8-00020a-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 18:48:42 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111] helo=gadolinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OPn5-00020V-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 18:48:39 +0000 Received: from [213.1.162.92] (helo=default) by gadolinium with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12OPmu-0002as-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 18:48:28 +0000 Message-ID: <000e01bf7fc0$25daae00$5ca201d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: "Low loss inductors" ..EW&WW Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 18:00:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, a little technical conundrum . I was musing about some of the text in the article flagged up by Christer in Electronics World (Wireless World to all us older ones!) It gives a design for a vertical with counterpoises. Unfortunately when you scale it to 136 it is about 450feet high. Sort of end of story......but hang on a minute it said something about feeding this inflatable vertical via a low loss 'coaxial' inductor. A short-circuited length of coaxial transmission line whose length is less than a quarter wave looks like an inductance at the end remote from the short. Oh yes whose got a mile or two of UR67 then!! Er .....then I thought again..... with a velocity factor of 0.67 for solid polythene cable, a quarter wave section of line is just 370 metres. I keyed some numbers into the formula (Radio Handbook Terman pg 192) and found that 300m of UR67 looks like about 2mH at 136kHz . Yes, its an expensive coil, with UR67 at its best price of about 40 quid a 100m drum, but not totally out-of-court if the loss is significantly less than a traditional solenoid coil. The other plus point is that UR67 will stand 15kV....yes I know the spec says 5kV but I used 300m of it as a delay line in a pulse generator I built in the 1960s for zapping submerged repeater amplifiers with a 15kV square pulse (simulates a thick trawlerman with a BIG axe). So I know there is no problem in that quarter. Its even better if you use 75 ohm cable as then just 200m will give you 1mH, 300m is nearly 3mH Now the problem ....I have no idea how to calculate the likely loss of this 'inductance' and my old (1942 edition) of Terman is no help here. It does say that the reactance changes more rapidly with frequency that a normal inductor, which might mean that a variometer would still be necessary. Surely one cannot just use the normal coax loss figures ( which are negligable at these frequencies ) as the cable has effectively an infinite SWR on it. Right....over to you....cos I don't know the answer. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6463 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2000 19:44:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Feb 2000 19:44:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OQYG-0002QS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:37:24 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OQYF-0002QN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:37:23 +0000 Received: from [195.44.218.235] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OQY6-0003Rv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:37:15 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <38B6D9AC.4727A21@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:36:12 +0000 From: "g3kev" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: ANT EXTENSION Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To take advantage of any translantic tests and be in with a chance, I have ordered some 50 ft fibre glass marine masts to extend the 100 ft tower to 150 ft and the 65 ft tower to 115 ft and the Tyrone(NI) 120 ft tower to 170 ft. All antennas have elaborate elevated insulated ground systems plus is some cases miles of sheep fence . With the current towers, that is the height limit and if it works fine if not I shall have to be content with local qso's around Europe. I am waiting for someone across the atlantic with a suitable antenna and power to commence some tests. Will leave a wide band recorder running 24 hrs each day to monitor activity when I am not available, and scan it later on a spectrum analyiser for activity hits. 73 de G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13264 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2000 19:44:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Feb 2000 19:44:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OQYD-0002QJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:37:21 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OQYC-0002QD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:37:20 +0000 Received: from [195.44.218.235] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OQY4-0003Rs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:37:12 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <38B6D53F.E3BF489B@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:17:20 +0000 From: "g3kev" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: BIG ANTENNA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Worked GM3YXM/P today with his kite flying high. He was 37 db above noise and is only surpassed by MM0ALM with his 4 x 130 ft towers. If you want a big signal and the possibility to work across to the USA/Canada you need a LARGE HIGH ANTENNA. The few BIG signals on the band have large towers and there is no other way. It is understandable that most are not able to erect large arrays so be content with the odd qso around Europe with a struggle, but do not expect the impossible even with LMCW(QRSS) across the Atlantic. Those that crack the dx regularly on 160 metres have large arrays, the odd chancer might make it once in a life time but it is usually the guy with the large antenna doing the work at both ends, plus exceptional propogation. Nice effort Dave to achieve the object. To emit big signals needs a lot of effort and dedication. 73 de G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 907 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2000 20:11:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Feb 2000 20:11:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OQy9-0002Zk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 20:04:09 +0000 Received: from mb09.swip.net ([193.12.122.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OQy8-0002Zf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 20:04:09 +0000 Received: from win95 (d212-151-96-162.swipnet.se [212.151.96.162]) by mb09.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA04346 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:03:15 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <000e01bf7fcb$d899a5e0$a26097d4@win95.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: "RSGB LF group" Subject: LF: Field strength measurements Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:06:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello All, Last weekend I made some field strength measurements on my own station. http://home5.swipnet.se/~w-54761/fs.htm I use an untuned loop and a selective level meter. The output from the loop is calculated, so maybe there is some uncertainty in the method. Comments are welcomed. 73 Christer sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26465 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2000 21:42:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Feb 2000 21:42:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OSNS-0003DL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:34:22 +0000 Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OSNQ-0003DD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:34:21 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.98.22d9cbd (7319) for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 16:33:35 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <98.22d9cbd.25e84f2f@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 16:33:35 EST Subject: LF: M0MBU on 71.9kHz in Bavaria To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 62 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Jim, hello group, today (Feb 25th) since 20:50 UT I'm seeing a nice qrss signal on 71.90 kHz: mobmu i ... m0bmu io91ur m0bmu io91ur ... Steady mm quality from 846km. It is the first amateur signal I've ever heard on this band (BIG SMILE, Jim)! I could send spectogram bitmaps by direct mail. Anyone else on the qrg? Happy 73s Markus, DF6NM in JN59NK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22774 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2000 21:54:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Feb 2000 21:54:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OSb6-0003Jl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:48:28 +0000 Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.72]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OSb5-0003Jb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:48:27 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.a4.116b357 (3852) for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 16:47:43 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 16:47:43 EST Subject: LF: It was M0BMU on 71.8 ... To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 62 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: sorry I mixed up letters and numbers last time... Cheers Markus DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19563 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2000 22:54:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Feb 2000 22:54:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OTXU-0003lB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 22:48:48 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OTXT-0003l6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 22:48:47 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA25517 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 22:48:28 GMT X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <1996011005584468199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 05:58:44 GMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re: 136kHz weak signals Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Last night, 14/2, at around 2035UT I saw I5TGG . His signal was 137.726kHz on my scale calling CQ but the signal faded out. Just a little earlier a strong QRSS signal at 137.729 is GM3YXM/P was seen (and heard) calling CQ. I was using Spectran, which has a better resolution for digging signals from between the Loran lines. The only disadvantage of this beta stage S/W is that you can only save images via Clipboard, which is a bit cumbersome. This I did and as I was converting the image to a .JPG to send to I5TGG I noticed another weak signal had been recorded at around 137.740kHz. It turned out to be sending the same data as GM3YXM/P but with a mystery delay timing difference of around three seconds. None of the signals was strong enough to cause non-linearity and there was no evidence of soundcard 'AGC' action that you sometimes see. So is it some sort of strange propagation effect? Most likely some image effect of the SW or soundcard- but why the time difference? I can send the .JPG image to anyone who is interested -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29983 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2000 23:04:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Feb 2000 23:04:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OThY-0003rR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 22:59:12 +0000 Received: from praseodumium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OThX-0003rM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 22:59:11 +0000 Received: from [213.1.129.24] (helo=default) by praseodumium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12OThM-0002rR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 22:59:00 +0000 Message-ID: <001801bf7fe3$234e48e0$188101d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: re PSK08 tests Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 22:05:26 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Andy, no EVN DSP card here but a good signal from you at 1955z-2000z very good trace on Spectrogram (.JPG stored). I guess judging from PSK32 signals, it would have been readable here without difficulty. Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14165 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2000 05:38:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Feb 2000 05:38:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OZkq-0006i5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 05:27:00 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from ds9.sci.fi ([195.74.0.54]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OZkp-0006i0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 05:26:59 +0000 Received: from default (DCXXVI.tdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.80.126]) by ds9.sci.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA00800 for ; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 07:26:57 +0200 (EET) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000226072704.00854ba0@laatikko.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: oh2lx@laatikko.saunalahti.fi X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 07:27:04 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: Re: LF: Re: 136kHz weak signals In-reply-to: <1996011005584468199@zetnet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Peter, I am interested to see the .JPG picture, please... Suffer from bad ICM above 137.5 kHz, also something on 136.1..136.3, wonder if SXV is causing it. Checked CFH this morning around 0330 but Nil... Have a good weekend de Vaino, OH2LX At 05:58 10.1.1996 GMT, you wrote: > >Last night, 14/2, at around 2035UT I saw I5TGG . His signal was >137.726kHz on my scale calling CQ but the signal faded out. > >Just a little earlier a strong QRSS signal at 137.729 is GM3YXM/P was >seen (and heard) calling CQ. > >I was using Spectran, which has a better resolution for digging >signals from between the Loran lines. The only disadvantage of this >beta stage S/W is that you can only save images via Clipboard, which >is a bit cumbersome. This I did and as I was converting the image to >a .JPG to send to I5TGG I noticed another weak signal had been >recorded at around 137.740kHz. > >It turned out to be sending the same data as GM3YXM/P but with a >mystery delay timing difference of around three seconds. > >None of the signals was strong enough to cause non-linearity and >there was no evidence of soundcard 'AGC' action that you sometimes see. > >So is it some sort of strange propagation effect? Most likely some >image effect of the SW or soundcard- but why the time difference? > >I can send the .JPG image to anyone who is interested >-- >Regards, Peter, G3LDO > > ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15414 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2000 08:10:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Feb 2000 08:10:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OcC5-0007k9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 08:03:17 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OcC4-0007k4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 08:03:16 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer (man-157.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.40.200]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA29226 for ; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 08:03:06 GMT Message-ID: <002001bf8030$1813ce80$c828f7c2@oemcomputer> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <1996011005584468199@zetnet.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Re: 136kHz weak signals Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 08:02:58 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Long Delay Echo? 73 de John Rabson G3PAI ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Dodd To: Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 1996 5:58 AM Subject: LF: Re: 136kHz weak signals > ... I noticed another weak signal had been > recorded at around 137.740kHz. > > It turned out to be sending the same data as GM3YXM/P but with a > mystery delay timing difference of around three seconds. > > None of the signals was strong enough to cause non-linearity and > there was no evidence of soundcard 'AGC' action that you sometimes see. > > So is it some sort of strange propagation effect? Most likely some > image effect of the SW or soundcard- but why the time difference? > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15252 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2000 09:45:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Feb 2000 09:45:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Odh7-0008Qz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:39:25 +0000 Received: from ulexite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Odh5-0008Qu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:39:23 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust182.tnt4.rtm1.nl.uu.net [212.153.212.182]) by ulexite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 409E4FAED4 for ; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 08:38:32 -0100 (GMT) Message-ID: <000801bf803e$233d2280$b6d499d4@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000e01bf7fc0$25daae00$5ca201d5@default> Subject: LF: Re: "Low loss inductors" ..EW&WW Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:44:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All from PA0SE Alan Melia wrote: > Hi All, a little technical conundrum . I was musing about some of the text > in the article flagged up by Christer in Electronics World (Wireless World > to all us older ones!) It gives a design for a vertical with counterpoises. > Unfortunately when you scale it to 136 it is about 450feet high. Sort of end > of story......but hang on a minute it said something about feeding this > inflatable vertical via a low loss 'coaxial' inductor. A short-circuited > length of coaxial transmission line whose length is less than a quarter wave > looks like an inductance at the end remote from the short. Oh yes whose got > a mile or two of UR67 then!! Er .....then I thought again..... with a > velocity factor of 0.67 for solid polythene cable, a quarter wave section of > line is just 370 metres. I keyed some numbers into the formula (Radio > Handbook Terman pg 192) and found that 300m of UR67 looks like about 2mH at > 136kHz . Yes, its an expensive coil, with UR67 at its best price of about 40 > quid a 100m drum, but not totally out-of-court if the loss is significantly > less than a traditional solenoid coil. The other plus point is that UR67 > will stand 15kV....yes I know the spec says 5kV but I used 300m of it as a > delay line in a pulse generator I built in the 1960s for zapping submerged > repeater amplifiers with a 15kV square pulse (simulates a thick trawlerman > with a BIG axe). So I know there is no problem in that quarter. Its even > better if you use 75 ohm cable as then just 200m will give you 1mH, 300m is > nearly 3mH > > Now the problem ....I have no idea how to calculate the likely loss of this > 'inductance' and my old (1942 edition) of Terman is no help here. It does > say that the reactance changes more rapidly with frequency that a normal > inductor, which might mean that a variometer would still be necessary. > Surely one cannot just use the normal coax loss figures ( which are > negligable at these frequencies ) as > the cable has effectively an infinite SWR on it. > > Right....over to you....cos I don't know the answer. > > Cheers de Alan G3NYK > Alan.Melia@btinternet.com With the ARRL "Antenna Book" comes a floppy disk with a Transmission Line computer program called TLA, written by N6BV. I used version 1.0 . The program does not know the British type UR65 but from another source I understand it can be compared to RG-213. For 300 m (984 ft) of RG-213, short circuited at one end, the program produces the foillowing results:: Frequency: 0.137 MHz Transmission line characteristic impedance: 50.0 - j 2.30 Ohms Matched -line loss, dB per 100 ft: 0.053 dB Velocity factor of transmission line: 0.660 Maximum voltage rating of transmission line: 3700.0 V Matched-line attenuation = 0.522 dB Resistive part of impedance at load: 0.0001 (I typed 0 Ohms, but the program apparently changes that into 0.0001 - PA0SE) Reactive part of impedance: 0 SWR at load: 4793489.50 SWR at line input: 16.67 Additional line loss due to SWR: 60.281 dB Total line loss: 60.803 dB (100.0%) At line input, Zin = 49.42 + j 172.52 At 1500 W, max. rms voltage on line: 988.6 V Distance from load for peak voltage = 984 ft So as a dummy load it would not be too bad .... 73, Dick, PA0SE JO22GD D.W. Rollema V.d. Marckstraat 5 2352 RA Leiderdorp The Netherlands Tel. +31 589 27 34 E-mail: d.w.rollema@freeler.nl or pa0se@amsat.org From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15048 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2000 10:55:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Feb 2000 10:55:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OekH-0000Kj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:46:45 +0000 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OekF-0000Ke-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:46:43 +0000 Received: from modem-10.caranthir.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.145.10] helo=lvm) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12Oek3-00022o-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:46:31 +0000 Message-ID: <000201bf8046$c5aa4680$0a91883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re. Ants etc. Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:45:56 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Listened to Qso friday 25/02/2000 at 10:45 between MM0 ALM and GM3YXM/P.
Checked sig. strengths of both stations on S meter,around S9 so meter quite accurate.
MM0ALM    S 8-9
GM3YXM    S 7-8
So your  /P station doing very well Dave! Congrats, 73s Laurie.  
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19254 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2000 11:02:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Feb 2000 11:02:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Oeqm-0000Qd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:53:28 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111] helo=gadolinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Oeql-0000QY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:53:27 +0000 Received: from [62.6.99.21] (helo=tracey.gardner) by gadolinium with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12Oeqf-0001xg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:53:21 +0000 Message-ID: <000001bf8047$b22a1940$1563063e@tracey.gardner> From: "Tracey Gardner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Fibre Glass Masts Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 22:56:50 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I'd be interested to know the source and price of the 50 ft fibre glass marine masts that you're buying. I've been looking at some excellent German telescopic fibre glass masts which extend up to 20m and cost approx 165 GBP inc carriage. Geri DK8KW uses one for his 136kHz antenna. 73s Tracey G5VU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22388 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2000 13:19:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Feb 2000 13:19:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Oh2T-0001Mj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:13:41 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Oh2S-0001Me-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:13:40 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from pickmere.demon.co.uk ([158.152.117.143]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12Oh2F-00049F-0W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:13:28 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:38:09 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M.J.Powell" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: 136kHz weak signals References: <1996011005584468199@zetnet.co.uk><002001bf8030$1813ce80$c828f7c2@oemcomputer> In-reply-to: <002001bf8030$1813ce80$c828f7c2@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >----- Original Message ----- >From: Peter Dodd >To: >Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 1996 5:58 AM >Subject: LF: Re: 136kHz weak signals > > >> ... I noticed another weak signal had been >> recorded at around 137.740kHz. >> >> It turned out to be sending the same data as GM3YXM/P but with a >> mystery delay timing difference of around three seconds. >> >> None of the signals was strong enough to cause non-linearity and >> there was no evidence of soundcard 'AGC' action that you sometimes see. >> >> So is it some sort of strange propagation effect? Most likely some >> image effect of the SW or soundcard- but why the time difference? Look at the date on this message! Not only RF gets delayed! Mike -- M.J.Powell From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7879 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2000 14:06:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Feb 2000 14:06:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ohl9-0001er-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:59:51 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from post.interalpha.co.uk ([195.26.224.18] helo=post.interalpha.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ohl8-0001em-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:59:50 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from sot-mod06.interalpha.net (sot-mod06.interalpha.net [195.26.225.6]) by post.interalpha.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA00226 for ; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:07:04 GMT Message-ID: <200002261407.OAA00226@post.interalpha.net> X-Sender: drassew2@post.interalpha.co.uk X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:00:10 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Andy Talbot" Subject: LF: Re: Low loss inductors Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I find that rather impossible to believe - 300m of thick cable being a dummy load at 137kHz ! Go back to the fundamental equations and calculate properly rather than rely on tables and software used for the wrong purpose . This may be a better way to estimate the performance.... Inductive reactance of a shorted length of line Xl = Zo.TAN(2 . PI . L / vf / Wavelength) With Wavelength = 2188m, velocity factor = 0.67, Zo = 50 this gives 171 ohms (= 200uH at 137k) you must have slipped a digit somewhere to get 2mH. This is the reactance looking into the coax, shorted at the far end and neglecting any losses. To get 2mH Xl = 1722 ohms, L = 0.245 wavelength (in air) = 373m of coax. Not very much of an increase on 300m and shows how critical the length is and how fast Xl will change with frequency. (In fact,since a lot of the numbers above have been rounded and we are very close to a shorted quarter wave, a back calculation using the rounded values to check gave Xl = 1600 rather than the 1720 ohms used in the forward calculation - that's how twitchy this technique will be) For an estimate of losses : Skin depth of copper at 137kHz is approximately 0.18mm From D = 503 SQRT(Resistivity / Freq / uo) For Cu Resistivity = 1.7E-8 Ohms / m, and uo (magnetic permeability) = 1 Diameter of centre conductor = 2.5mm (near enough anyway) so cross sectional area of conducting path is 0.18mm * 2.5mm = 0.45E-6 m^2 RF Resist = Resisivity * Length / Area = 1.7E-8 * 370m / 0.45E-6m^2 = 14 ohms. For a quick estimate assume the braid losses are a lot less than the centre conductor as they have a much larger surface area, so can be ignored (although that may not necessaily be the case) and we can also ignore dielectric losses (a reasonable assumption at these freqs) so Q = Xl / R = 1722 / 14 = 123 Which is about what I got on my 5mH conventional coil of 1.5mm wire, 300mm diameter and 400mm long. In other words, a very expensive, very large and heavy 'coil' - making it from coax However, if you have a lot of large coax available think about this .... Make a transmitting loop out of the coax, using the outer braid as the loop element. Use the inner / outer capacitance to resonate the loop by connecting the inner to the OPPOSITE end of the outer at ONE end only. Feed by personal preference as for any mag loop antenna. For topband a loop made this way from LDF350 (roughly similar dimensions to UR67/RG213 but solid copper sheath and foam dielectric) is self-resonant when at 1.9m diameter. This tested out in practice. A quick calculation for 137kHz suggests a loop of 29m diameter of the same material will be self resonant, or at least possibly 90m of cable forming a loop of some shape other than a circle might be. A very rough and ready calculation but it does suggest that a 100m reel of UR67 would contain all the conductor and capacitance needed for a decent loop at 137kHz. I wrote a spreadsheet prog for designing these self resonating mag loop antennas, and one of 28m diameter using LDF-350 for 137kHz suggests a gain of -28dB is feasible (neglecting ground proximity losses). A bit pointless when that is in the same region as the gain from a 12m high tee antenna. If anyone wants a copy (Excel 97), contact my other EMail account actalbot@dera.gov.uk Andy G4JNT >Resistive part of impedance at load: 0.0001 >(I typed 0 Ohms, but the program apparently changes that into 0.0001 - >PA0SE) >Reactive part of impedance: 0 >SWR at load: 4793489.50 >SWR at line input: 16.67 >Additional line loss due to SWR: 60.281 dB >Total line loss: 60.803 dB (100.0%) > >At line input, Zin = 49.42 + j 172.52 >At 1500 W, max. rms voltage on line: 988.6 V >Distance from load for peak voltage = 984 ft > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14200 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2000 21:25:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Feb 2000 21:25:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OoUn-0004dZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 21:11:25 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from smtper.inrete.it ([212.110.32.184] helo=mailer.inrete.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OoUj-0004dU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 21:11:22 +0000 Received: from cel266 ([151.25.253.108]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA04837 for ; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 22:11:10 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 22:11:10 +0100 Message-ID: <4.1.20000226215521.00a0a100@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1 Data: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 22:10:45 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: Re: 136kHz weak signals In-reply-to: <1996011005584468199@zetnet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In 22.05 26/02/00 , Peter G3LDO wrote: ... > >It turned out to be sending the same data as GM3YXM/P but with a >mystery delay timing difference of around three seconds. > Hello Peter, SPECTRAN takes some time to process the input signal, maybe three seconds with your setting. Then the processed signal becomes available on the line and speaker out of the S/B. Possibly it is an audio signal re-entering the input of the S/B. I am not able to explain the frequency difference, however; but it may be due to the signal processing. I will ask Alberto I2PHD. But you may try with a local QRSS signal. If the cause is the S/B-software system it should be easy to detect. Otherwise... echoes from a trans-dimensional alien mothership? 73 - Marco IK1ODO spin@inrete.it Rivalta, ITALY JN35SA (N 45 01' 25.6", E 7 31' 09.4", Loran-C fix) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6126 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2000 21:58:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Feb 2000 21:58:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Op72-0004r4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 21:50:56 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Op70-0004qz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 21:50:55 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id VAA15683 for ; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 21:50:42 GMT X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <2000022621391768199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 21:39:17 GMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re: date error Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit An apology is in order about the 1996 date on my last couple of e-mails. I fitted a new hard drive and reenstalled the SW and forgot to reset the date. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26084 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2000 00:17:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Feb 2000 00:17:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OrHS-0005yc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 00:09:50 +0000 Received: from tantalum.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.80]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OrHR-0005yX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 00:09:49 +0000 Received: from [213.1.151.87] (helo=default) by tantalum.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12OrH5-0007XA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 00:09:30 +0000 Message-ID: <001701bf80b6$2cbf4900$579701d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Low loss inductors ... tnx Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 00:04:10 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi thanks Andy and Dick. I couldn't believe that coax would be a dummy load at 136k either but although there is a formula for the Q of the 'inductance' formed by the shorted line I could not think of a way of deriving one of the terms....actually what current IS flowing in the conductors. Andy's figures make a lot of sense and it just goes to confirm the old adage " you don't get owt fer nowt". OK I must plead stubby geriatric fingers for the extra order, I was probably mentally slowing light down to my speed! Certainly the reactance changes very rapidly with frequency, and I suspect this was why only a part of the loading uses the shorted stub in the Wireless World article ( there being lumped inductors shown as well). Ah well I can put my old UR67 to better uses and the neighbours can sleep peacefully as I don't need install an old 'grid' pylon to support the loading inductor. Some idiot has got to keep asking the silly questions!! 73 de Alan G3NYK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18167 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2000 03:13:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Feb 2000 03:13:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OtsB-00077Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 02:55:55 +0000 Received: from host.king.igs.net ([216.58.2.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ots9-00073z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 02:55:53 +0000 Received: from server1 (ttyC14.king.igs.net [216.58.2.142]) by host.king.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id VAA35469 for ; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 21:55:41 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kayser@king.igs.net) Message-ID: <019e01bf80ce$08f22b10$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Re; Test Transmissions Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 20:35:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Finbar:

 
Re ur msg as follows.................
 
                 Would it be possible for you to tell  Jack  VE1ZZ,  that I will be  carrying out a series of test transmissions on 136.150 khz  starting just before  Midnight UTC, starting tonight  Friday 26th  Feb 2000 and for the next  3  to 4 nights. For  1 hour, until  0100 utc, each  night/morning.
I am pulling out all the stops, everything cranked up to the last. Transmissions will consist of  my  repeated callsign  EI0CF, at  5 wpm  or less.
I dare not leave this transmitter unattended, should I leave it  chuntering all night, I am liable to find the entire workshop burnt to the ground in the morning. Otherwise I could leave it going all night. Not advisable.
Best regards from your European cousins,
 
 
Well I have just returned from a 650 mile round trip to test my RX's and I can now say that my RX's are as good as any others.  The problem has been in the antenna.  I returned via the plumbing store this afternoon with a large supply of bits and pieces.  I will have a 16 ft diameter untuned shielded loop about 50 ft in the air as soon as I can get it all put together and tested out.  The issue is fabrication and assembly, all the pieces are here.  I will start with the sling shot to get a line over an English Poplar tree tomorrow some time.  I will see DCF39 competently from now on.  I expect also to see the WA2 AMRAD signals easily as well. 
 
I have two ways to talk with Jack, VE1ZZ.  One is by phone and the other by mail.  We are using the later.  He is into Packet Radio and I am trying to find a way to get email from the Internet to him on Packet Radio, the packet radio medium is all dead here now, the only thing left is the APRS stuff using the old TNC's.
 
Jack does not use a PC and has no software to watch for signals, he depends on hearing things.  I am trying to work on him to get a PC and some software but I am moving slowly and carefully.  I sense he does not move to these things quickly.  I have sent him some .jpg printed pictures, to see if he will respond.  I am not inclined to try and get him going if he is not able to see signals at this point.  I trust you will agree?
 
To this I have written Jack a long memo about what he is hearing from DCF39.  I shared his tape with Mitch, VE3OT yesterday, I think Mitch will agree Jack is hearing a thundering great signal from DCF39. 
 
Off line and in another forum I am working with others on high level automation of the receiving process so that we can have automatic alarms on the DCF39 signal so the next time it takes off a large fire bell will let me know that things are happening.  I have your phone number on the wall and I will call when that happen next time.  I will also phone Jack after I have phoned those of you in Europe for whom I have phone numbers.
 
At this time, I am not able to make a competent contribution to random tests so I will decline until I have resources that make the investment of time and effort worth while.  I trust that you will agree?
 
I also began today to gather the goodies so I can put up a 2000ft Beverage antenna at my island qth for next winter.  I will have to set out the Beverage over open lake water for over 1500ft, I hauled home the first load of old gas barrels that I will make into floating platforms to hole up the wire.  Welding starts in a few months when time permits, but there are 40 of the gas barrels sitting out at our dock hi.
 
Back to my scraping of copper pipe and soldering chores....
 
Larry
VA3LK
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22675 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2000 07:48:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Feb 2000 07:48:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OyHo-0000f1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 07:38:40 +0000 Received: from hugo.fen.baynet.de ([194.95.193.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12OyHn-0000ew-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 07:38:39 +0000 Received: from 194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de (dialin-nbg-166.fen.baynet.de [195.37.215.46]) by hugo.fen.baynet.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA16555 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 08:38:15 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <001301bf7915$d1ce5e20$2ed725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de> From: "Walter Staubach" To: "Reflektor" Subject: LF: OM2TW Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:07:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello to All, hrd OM2TW on saturday for several times 539 and called him, but sri no QSO. 73 Walter --------------------------------------------- Walter.Staubach@fen.baynet.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20661 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2000 09:52:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Feb 2000 09:52:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12P0FU-0001Uq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 09:44:24 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12P0FT-0001Ul-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 09:44:23 +0000 Received: from [195.44.140.69] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12P0FK-0006KV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 09:44:15 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <38B8F1A3.EE1E2E3F@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 09:42:59 +0000 From: "g3kev" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: LF in France References: <38B25BFC.7FF99446@club-internet.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: M & S wrote: > Hello all, > > The LF regulations in France have been published by the ANF, our > frequency coordination agency, in the 'Journal Officiel'. The band is > allocated to the amateur service on a secondry basis, as per the CEPT recommendation. > > However, the band has not yet been officially opened for use by amateurs. > > In the meantime, I've contacted our ministry of telecommunications (once > again!), who told me that we CAN start using the band from now on, > although there's still a signature missing but the document is > circulating in the offices. > > So, we can use the band, but cannot use the band... It's up to us! > > CU on the air very soon! > > 73, Mark, F6JSZ > Editor, French CQ > > TX: ICOM IC-706MkIIG (Yes, it does transmit on 136'!) > AMP: Under construction (G0MRF design) > TX ANT: Full-size dipole (square configuration) Nice approach to the band and I like your antenna, GO for the real thing !!!!!! Waiting for that big signal. DE G3KEV > > RX: Kenwood TS-140S + filters + DSP > RX ANT: Loop + preamp > LOC: JN04PX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4402 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2000 10:33:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Feb 2000 10:33:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12P0ug-0001ot-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 10:26:58 +0000 Received: from ulexite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12P0ue-0001oo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 10:26:56 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust233.tnt4.rtm1.nl.uu.net [212.153.212.233]) by ulexite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id EDD29FAF19 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 09:26:05 -0100 (GMT) Message-ID: <003601bf810d$f49f45e0$e9d499d4@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200002261407.OAA00226@post.interalpha.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Low loss inductors Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 11:31:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All from PA0SE Andy Talbot wrote: > I find that rather impossible to believe - 300m of thick cable being a dummy > load at 137kHz ! > > Go back to the fundamental equations and calculate properly rather than rely > on tables and software used for the wrong purpose . > > This may be a better way to estimate the performance.... > > Inductive reactance of a shorted length of line Xl = Zo.TAN(2 . PI . L / > vf / Wavelength) > With Wavelength = 2188m, velocity factor = 0.67, Zo = 50 > this gives 171 ohms (= 200uH at 137k) you must have slipped a digit > somewhere to get 2mH. > This is the reactance looking into the coax, shorted at the far end and > neglecting any losses. > > To get 2mH Xl = 1722 ohms, L = 0.245 wavelength (in air) = 373m of coax. > Not very much of an increase on 300m and shows how critical the length is > and how fast Xl will change with frequency. > (In fact,since a lot of the numbers above have been rounded and we are very > close to a shorted quarter wave, a back calculation using the rounded values > to check gave Xl = 1600 rather than the 1720 ohms used in the forward > calculation - that's how twitchy this technique will be) > > For an estimate of losses : > > Skin depth of copper at 137kHz is approximately 0.18mm From D = 503 > SQRT(Resistivity / Freq / uo) > For Cu Resistivity = 1.7E-8 Ohms / m, and uo (magnetic permeability) = 1 > Diameter of centre conductor = 2.5mm (near enough anyway) > so cross sectional area of conducting path is > 0.18mm * 2.5mm = 0.45E-6 m^2 > > RF Resist = Resisivity * Length / Area = 1.7E-8 * 370m / > 0.45E-6m^2 = 14 ohms. > > For a quick estimate assume the braid losses are a lot less than the centre > conductor as they have a much larger surface area, so can be ignored > (although that may not necessaily be the case) and we can also ignore > dielectric losses (a reasonable assumption at these freqs) so Q = Xl / R > = 1722 / 14 = 123 > Which is about what I got on my 5mH conventional coil of 1.5mm wire, 300mm > diameter and 400mm long. > > In other words, a very expensive, very large and heavy 'coil' - making it > from coax Andy says "Go back to the fundamental equations and calculate properly". A good advice but Andy did not follow it himself. The equation for Xl he used is fine for a lossless transmission line but for a lossy line the full equation for the input impedance of a transmission line line of length l, characteristic impedance Zo and terminated by an impedance Zl should be used: Zin = Zo x {Zlcosh(gamma) * l + Zosinh(gamma * l)} / { Zlsinh(gamma * l) + Zocosh(gamma * l)} I wrote "gamma" in full because my computer refuses to produce the Greek character for it. I happily leave it to others to apply this rather formidable equation to Alan Melia's cable. I feel not competent to do so but also no need as N6BV's computer program does that for me as it is based upon that formidable equation. To check the validity of the computer result I performed a simple test. When the 984 ft long RG-213 cable is shortcircuited at its end the computer finds for the impedance (Zin)sc at the input of the cable at 137 kHz: (Zin)sc = 49.42 + j 172.52 as mentioned before. When the cable ends in an open circuit the input impedance (Zin)oc is according to the computer: (Zin)oc = 2.60 - j 13.72 Now compute the product of these impedances: (Zin)sc * (Zin)oc = (49.42 + j 172.52) * (2.60 - j 13.72) = 2418 - j 207 According to another basic equation this should be equal to the square of the characteristic impedance of the cable: Zo^2 = (50.0 - j 2.3)^2 = 2505 - j 230; pretty near the expected result. I leave it to experts to judge whether this test is a sufficient proof on the validity of the computer results. For me it is enough to stick to my opinion that Alan's cable would be fine as a dummy load, provided a capacitor with a reactance of -j 172.52 Ohms (6727 pF) is put in series to tune out the reactance. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22063 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2000 11:13:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Feb 2000 11:13:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12P1Yd-00028z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 11:08:15 +0000 Received: from mailout01.sul.t-online.de ([194.25.134.80]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12P1Yb-00028u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 11:08:14 +0000 Received: from fwd03.sul.t-online.de by mailout01.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 12P1YT-0008DK-04; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 12:08:05 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from (087321565-0001@[212.184.145.31]) by fwd03.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 12P1YN-2JoZs1C; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 12:07:59 +0100 From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 References: <001301bf7915$d1ce5e20$2ed725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de> Subject: Re: LF: OM2TW X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 12:07:59 +0100 Message-ID: <12P1YN-2JoZs1C@fwd03.sul.t-online.de> X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Ich habe ihn heute gleich erwischt, beide Seiten 559 (jetzt bei mir mit LF-Vorverstaerker. AWDH bzw erstmal gute Reise! 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB Walter Staubach schrieb: > Hello to All, > hrd OM2TW on saturday for several times 539 and called him, but sri no QSO. > 73 Walter > --------------------------------------------- > Walter.Staubach@fen.baynet.de > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19982 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2000 14:29:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Feb 2000 14:29:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12P4Y9-0003Q7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:19:57 +0000 Received: from mta01.talk21.com ([62.172.192.171] helo=t21mta01-app.talk21.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12P4Y8-0003Q2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:19:56 +0000 Received: from z0w6t5 ([213.1.8.84]) by t21mta01-app.talk21.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20000227142303.PYAG6201.t21mta01-app.talk21.com@z0w6t5> for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:23:03 +0000 Message-ID: <006b01bf812d$cc769c60$540801d5@z0w6t5> From: "Bill Staples" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: sig rpt Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:19:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hello all
Heard Dave G3YXM/P from scotland on friday flying his kite good solid 5 8 9 here in Sunny Bexhill Dave well done
One end to the other so to speak Hi.
Good Dx all.
73
Bill G0AKY
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12090 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2000 14:56:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Feb 2000 14:56:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12P51q-0003dU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:50:38 +0000 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12P51o-0003dP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:50:37 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust29.tnt17.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.53.8.29]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id D2E81CAEC3 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:49:57 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000e01bf8132$ca9e8ec0$1d0835d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000e01bf7fcb$d899a5e0$a26097d4@win95.swipnet.se> Subject: LF: Re: Field strength measurements Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:55:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All from PA0SE Christer, SM6PXJ wrote: Last weekend I made some field strength measurements on my own station. http://home5.swipnet.se/~w-54761/fs.htm I use an untuned loop and a selective level meter. The output from the loop is calculated, so maybe there is some uncertainty in the method. I had a look at the website and Christer certainly made a beautiful job of his loop antenna. The differences between calculated and measured field strengths are much smaller than found by Jim, M0MBU (see his e-mail of Febr. 25, 13.50 hrs) and myself. As I think Christer lives in relatively open country that seems to support the view of Dr. J.H. Causebrook, as reported by Jim, that in an urban area considerable power is absorbed by buildings, trees, lampposts, etc. The loop made by Jim is very small, expressed in wavelengths. So it is likely that the distributed capacitance and leakage inductance between the turns are so small that the equation for the voltage induced in the loop yields correct results ("Radio Engineer's Handbook" by Terman, First Edition, p.813). Nevertheless it may be useful to calibrate the measuring equipment. Inserting a 1 Ohm resistor in series with the loop and putting a known voltage over it - as suggested to Christer - is theoretically correct but not easily done because even at 137 kHz it is difficult to make a resistor that is really 1 ohm. I met the same difficulty when trying to calibrate a home made FS-meter with a one-turn loop antenna for the short wave bands. The following procedure was adopted. The loop was put through the hole of a ferrite toroid core; it so became the one-turn secondary of a transformer. The primary winding consisted of ten turns of wire, spread over the circumference of the toroid. The primary was connected to the output of a signal generator. In order to properly load the generator a 50 Ohm resistor was connected in parallel with the primary winding. Now the voltage induced in the loop is 1/10 of the output voltage of the signal generator. (Beware: some signal generators indicate the output as the EMF, others as the voltage at the output terminals when connected to a load equal to the internal resistance of the generator!) I checked the transformer action by connecting a selective level meter to points on the loop immediately left and right of the toroid. The value was indeed exactly 1/10 of the signal generator output voltage. It is important that the inductive reactance of the primary winding is at least 5 times 50 ohm, otherwise the sig gen is not properly loaded and its output voltage cannot be correctly read. On 137 kHz this may be difficult to achieve with a ten turn primary. But there is no objection to using more turns. If N turns are used the voltage induced in the loop is simply the generator voltage divided by N. The extra resistance introduced into the loop due to the transformer is equal to 50 Ohms/2 * N^2. The factor 2 arises because the 50 Ohm resistor appears in parallel with the generator output resistance of 50 Ohm. When N = 10 this works out at 50/2 * 100 = 0.25 Ohm. The effect of this can be neglected. Christer uses a loop with 47 turns. Only one turn must be put through the hole in the toroid, preferably the centre one to avoid upsetting the symmetry. But I don't think putting the toroid over one of the wires connecting the loop to the selective level meter will introduce a serious error. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17872 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2000 15:08:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Feb 2000 15:08:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12P582-0003jO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:57:02 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.91]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12P581-0003jJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:57:01 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from pickmere.demon.co.uk ([158.152.117.143]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12P57s-000J17-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:56:53 +0000 Message-ID: <1nkvDCAZOSu4EwN8@pickmere.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 13:16:09 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M.J.Powell" Subject: Re: LF: Re: date error References: <2000022621391768199@zetnet.co.uk> In-reply-to: <2000022621391768199@zetnet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In message <2000022621391768199@zetnet.co.uk>, Peter Dodd writes >An apology is in order about the 1996 date on my last couple of >e-mails. I fitted a new hard drive and reenstalled the SW and forgot >to reset the date. I wasn't getting at you! Mike G3IJE -- M.J.Powell From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20721 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2000 18:44:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Feb 2000 18:44:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12P8T7-0005Eg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:31:01 +0000 Received: from cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.174]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12P8T4-0005Eb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:30:58 +0000 Received: from modem-5.eldacar.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.179.5] helo=lvm) by cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12P8Sv-0007fP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:30:49 +0000 Message-ID: <000201bf8150$cdf956e0$05b3883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: LF.OM2TW Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:30:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi Rick,
Heard you here in south of England Sat 26/2/2000 at 20:40.Readable signal at 4/3/9.Called you twice but no copy your end! Will try again.73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5156 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2000 20:12:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Feb 2000 20:12:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12P9vP-0005tt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 20:04:19 +0000 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12P9vN-0005to-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 20:04:18 +0000 Received: from [202.27.178.104] by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <20000227200334.QNMS6460852.mta1-rme@[202.27.178.104]> for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:03:34 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <38B98276.6F4E@xtra.co.nz> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:00:54 +1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Low loss inductors References: <200002261407.OAA00226@post.interalpha.net> <003601bf810d$f49f45e0$e9d499d4@w8k3f0> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dick Rollema wrote: > > To All from PA0SE > > Andy Talbot wrote: > > > I find that rather impossible to believe - 300m of thick cable being a > dummy > > load at 137kHz ! > > > > Go back to the fundamental equations and calculate properly rather than > rely > > on tables and software used for the wrong purpose . snip snip >Andy says "Go back to the fundamental equations and calculate properly". A >good advice but Andy did not follow it himself. snip snip I could not spot a computational error is in either calculations, but with a low loss situation the formula could be very sensitive to being close to "divide by zero" in parts of a fomula. I am strongly of the view that coaxial cable with the far end either short or open termination is mostly reactive at LF when "looking" in to the near end of the cable. The main issue is the loss factor (or Q). Which has the higher Q, a coil or a shorted end coaxial cable? >>From an intuitive point of view, I would think a purpose built coil would give lowest losses for a given value of inductance needed. The designer is in full control of countermeasures for skin effect, proximity effect, voltage gradient and can select the best length to diameter ratio for a given frequency band. On the other hand, coaxial cable is widely used at VHF/UHF for "stub matching", however it does not appear to be technique that has been used on lower bands, where lumped components are generally preferred, and can be variable (variable capacitors and variometers) and so are more useful for "tuning up" or adjusting for a good match to 50 ohms. Does any reader have a drum of coaxial cable and a low frequency bridge test set? A practical measurement should sort out a quantitative result. In the meantime my guesstimate is that a long length of shorted coaxial cable (up to a quarter wave electrical) would be quite a good inductor at LF, but the R part of the R+jX value would be higher than that of a "well made coil" with similar X value. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20083 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2000 20:32:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Feb 2000 20:32:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PAFg-00066e-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 20:25:16 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PAFf-00066Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 20:25:15 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id UAA21591 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 20:24:57 GMT X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <2000022719550868199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 19:55:08 GMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re: strange signal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit After an exchange of e-mails with Alan Melia in which he says > Hi Peter thanks for the Spectran screen. I wonder..... > The tranmission on the right is definitely Cesare........ I put a pair of dividers on the > penultimate character of the strong signal and it was about half a dot > shorter than the 'P'. (that might just be the brighness variation on the > weaker signal. Also the inter letter gap on Dave's transmission is > accurately equal to the first dash in the 'K' . Whereas the gap on the > weaker signal above is much shorter.The penultimate character in the weak > signal almost looks like it could be a 'C' ...this was not another weak > station calling Cesare was it?? the two chars on the screen could be ...GC K >............ I make the delay on the 'K' equal to a dash and el space and a dot. That would > be nearer 15 secs, I think (give or take another el space). I know one of > the southern German stations was calling Cesare earlier. > When I have had intermod 'ghosts' they line up exactly with the keying of > the transmission that's intermodding of course. In view of what Alan says, and after further inspection of the mystery signal on 137.738kHz, I am now convinced that it is another amateur signal and not a delayed 'image' of the strong signal from Dave. So who was it? The date/time of the mystery transmission was 24th Feb at 2025hrs. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25320 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2000 21:13:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Feb 2000 21:13:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PAuq-0006MB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 21:07:48 +0000 Received: from [195.166.128.23] (helo=merlins.force9.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PAup-0006M6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 21:07:47 +0000 Received: (qmail 10711 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2000 21:07:39 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by merlins.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Feb 2000 21:07:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 31335 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2000 21:07:38 -0000 Received: from 194.3b-01.quay.dial.plus.net.uk (HELO main) (212.159.122.194) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Feb 2000 21:07:38 -0000 Message-ID: <02a801bf8167$347412a0$0600a8c0@main> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: GM Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 21:10:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear All. I have just returned from GM. Did anyone else notice peculiar conditions on Wednesday especially with shortish range signals greatly enhanced? G4GVC and G6RO were 599 in New Galloway, about 6dB better than I usually get them, but long distance signals seemed no better than usual. Later in the week signals were back to normal. The antenna was still up from Christmas and I was able to operate from Wednesday afternoon. It has three 20mtr horizontal wires as top-loading, 18mtrs high with the down lead being in a sideways V shape to avoid the house. I can get 3A up the antenna with 900W of RF so the earth leaves something to be desired! It consists of three wire fences connected back to the shack by 100mtrs of wire lying on the ground, not high-tech but it works. This time I ran a wire across the road to another fence and I think it helped a bit. Very little QRS activity was seen. I worked Rik on DFCW (I wish I had modified my tx and updated my old version of QRS when I worked you Rik!) and ON4ZK. I reckon I could have worked them both on CW. The only other signal I saw was G3LDO. On Friday afternoon the weather was good so I took a trip to the sea-side and flew the kite North of Stranraer near Milleur Point. I worked G6RO, MM0ALM (S9+30dB!), G3KEV, HB9DCE, DJ5BV, OZ8NJ, G4GVC and G6NB. I was only operating for just over an hour, unannounced, on a weekday afternoon. I doubt if I would have worked anyone at-all if I'd been on topband! LF is the place to be. On Saturday morning I was getting a lovely 559 copy from Ossi OE5ODL but he took such a long time getting Steve's callsign right ( that's a-l-G! ) that he faded down before I called. I couldn't net onto his frequency because my synthesiser in that tx doesn't go down that far, so I missed him. I think that would have been a first unless Ossi has worked MM0ALM. The rest of Saturday I was plagued with a local noise which was quite weak by Birmingham standards but took the edge of all but the loudest signals, sorry to John G3BDQ for making a meal of our QSO....... I put up a large receiving loop between two trees and that worked very well, then the noise went off! Worked G3OLB, SM6PXJ, EI0CF (my local!) and OG5UFO before setting off home. 73, Dave G(M)3YXM(/P). From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24190 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2000 21:15:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Feb 2000 21:15:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PAuI-0006M3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 21:07:14 +0000 Received: from mb09.swip.net ([193.12.122.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PAuG-0006Ly-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 21:07:13 +0000 Received: from win95 (d212-151-37-194.swipnet.se [212.151.37.194]) by mb09.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA07316 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:06:14 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <000701bf8166$fae4a900$c22597d4@win95.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: "RSGB LF group" Subject: LF: Field strength revised Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:09:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello All Thanks to PA0SE for suggesting the calibration method. I tried this method this evening and believe I'm somewhat closer to the truth... Obviously the measuring loop with the connection wiring was resonant far lower in frequency than expected. This made the figures a bit optimistic. Now I have a 6,3 dB difference between calculated (2,4 W) and measured radiated power (0,65 W). More details on my home page http://home5.swipnet.se/~w-54761/fs.htm 73 Christer SM6PXJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23351 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2000 21:31:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Feb 2000 21:31:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PBAh-0006Yn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 21:24:11 +0000 Received: from mail1.isys.net ([193.96.224.45]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PBAg-0006Yi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 21:24:11 +0000 Received: from k [195.64.97.61] by mail1.isys.net with esmtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 12PBKz-0001MK-00; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:34:49 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Klaus von der Heide" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:25:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: DSP56002EVM with Atomic Clock In-reply-to: <200002251434.OAA28112@post.interalpha.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF-enthusiasts, some of you obviously use the DSP56002EVM. Therefore, let me again mention a simple method to synchronize an LF-receiver to an atomic clock. I do it the following way: The 24576 kHz of the CODEC oscillator on the EVM board is the mother oscillator of all frequency-relevant parts of the receiver. The signal is picked up by a small capacitor from the board and amplified by a gain block and then divided by digital CMOS circuitry as follows: 24576 / 64 / 3 = 128 kHz These 128 kHz (well LC-filtered) is used to downconvert the 136 kHz band to about 8 kHz, which is the input to the left channel of my EVM board. The digital 128 kHz are divided further: 128 / 2 = 64 kHz This signal (also LC-filtered) is used to downconvert DCF77 from 77.5 kHz to 13.5 kHz which is the right input to the DSP board. Only one receiver is written in assembly language. It is switched between left and right input. The DSP program generates cos/sin-pairs of 13.5 kHz and 7.7...9.8 kHz for downconversion into the baseband. After the DSP-broadband noise blanker (correlation of both inputs 136 and 77 kHz) a multirate filter follows and a quadrature demodulator. The rotation of the DCF77 signal in the baseband exactly says at what the 24576 kHz were in error. So the program can correct this error in software. In place of DCF77 also MSF and others (50 kHz) could be used by simple change of the LC-input filters of the receiver and the downconversion frequency generated by DDS in the program. The advantage of such a synchronization is to allow very high resolution over long periods. A spectrum of a transatlantic signal could be made over a whole night at a resolution of 0.01 Hz or even better. The transmitted signal must have the same quality, off course. The signal to noise ratio against a resolution of 1 Hz then is better by a factor of 10. My simple receiver is used therefore the other way also. At the moment an OPAmp produces only 1 Volt at 50 Ohm at any frequency within the 136 kHz band (no PA, no Antenna). It should be pointed out that only convertion frequencies (generated by DDS) and the sampling frequency are relevant to the receiving or transmitting frequency, and not the DSP clock and not the clock of the PC which does the FFT. Because of heavy QRL, this LF project is growing slowly. 73 de Klaus, DJ5HG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25916 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2000 21:34:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Feb 2000 21:34:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PBAm-0006Yu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 21:24:16 +0000 Received: from mail1.isys.net ([193.96.224.45]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PBAk-0006Yp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 21:24:15 +0000 Received: from k [195.64.97.61] by mail1.isys.net with esmtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 12PBL0-0001MK-00; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:34:50 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Klaus von der Heide" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:25:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: PSK08 Tests / CPM In-reply-to: <200002251434.OAA28112@post.interalpha.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy, G4JNT wrote: ... Received: (qmail 29038 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2000 22:43:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Feb 2000 22:43:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PCID-000723-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:36:01 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PCIC-00071y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:36:00 +0000 Received: from [213.1.162.46] (helo=default) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12PCHu-00027w-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:35:42 +0000 Message-ID: <000701bf8172$3f8e2bc0$2ea201d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots 26/27th Feb at GB7DXM Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:10:50 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Sat 26th QRS sigs logged:- 0510z G3LDO strong CQ from Peter HB2ASB very steady 'O' signals from Toni "ASB ASB...TEST DE HB2ASB" 1400z G3CCH CQ 'O' Sun 27th QRS sigs 0500z HB2ASB test sigs again faded down at about 0518z 'SK' at 0537z 0728 HB2ASB CQ stronger than earlier despite effects of increased local noise 0757z DJ5BV CQ 0907z ?? missed it just got K whilst finishing my toast. 0919 DJ5BV CQ 0930 "....5TGC DE DJ5BV M M K" but unfortunately no signal seen from Cesare There is a fair sized list from the Cluster this week so I will not report the hand speed stations heard. Consistent signals heard again from Finbar EI0CF in daytime despite his mainly horizontal aerial. As an aside if you want a look at Finbar's 'back garden' look in the Travel supplement of the Saturday Daily Telegraph.....I couldn't see which house had the smouldering window frames though! G3NYK de GB7DXM 27-Feb 2137Z > 137.7 G3LDO 27-Feb-2000 2123Z (559) slow-cw cq 136.6 DK1IS 27-Feb-2000 1928Z 439 qso with dj1zb 429 136.8 I5MXX 27-Feb-2000 1800Z cq 599+ 136.8 IK5ZPV 27-Feb-2000 1540Z 439 137.0 DJ5BV 27-Feb-2000 1028Z cq cq 136.9 IK5ZPV 27-Feb-2000 0836Z 449 cq 136.9 OM2TW 27-Feb-2000 0843Z 439 sri call 136.9 IK5ZPV 27-Feb-2000 0836Z 449 cq 136.8 DJ5BV 27-Feb-2000 0828Z 549 cq 137.7 DF8ZR 27-Feb-2000 0815Z cq 136.2 HB2ASB 27-Feb-2000 0754Z 569 cq 136.5 SM6PXJ 27-Feb-2000 0742Z 136.8 DJ2LF 27-Feb-2000 0723Z in QSO with DJ5BV 136.8 OH1BS 26-Feb-2000 2324Z CQ 136.8 OM2TW 26-Feb-2000 2239Z 599 136.3 SM6PXJ 26-Feb-2000 2156Z CQ 136.3 SM6PXJ 26-Feb-2000 2142Z in QSO 136.9 OM2TW 26-Feb-2000 2149Z 579 ufb 136.7 OE5ODL 26-Feb-2000 2032Z 137.2 OM2TW 26-Feb-2000 1959Z qsx 3577 137.0 OE5ODL 26-Feb-2000 1920Z cq, 529 on 25m vert in jn59ix 136.5 I5MXX 26-Feb-2000 1930Z 599+ 137.2 OM2TW 26-Feb-2000 1910Z qsx 3577 kHz 136.8 OE5ODL 26-Feb-2000 1913Z 549 137.2 OM2TW 26-Feb-2000 1842Z 549 no qsb 137.2 OM2TW 26-Feb-2000 1813Z 136.0 G3GRO 26-Feb-2000 1607Z (539) 136.8 G4GVC 26-Feb-2000 1103Z cq (559) 137.0 DJ2LF 26-Feb-2000 1059Z cq cq 136.8 PA0SE 26-Feb-2000 1040Z 449 136.4 OE5ODL 23-Feb-2000 2257Z (549) calling EI0CF (339) 136.3 DL1SAN 23-Feb-2000 1724Z (559) cq 137.0 DJ5BV 23-Feb-2000 1721Z cq cq cq 136.8 OE5ODL 23-Feb-2000 1709Z 579 cq 136.5 HB2ASB 22-Feb-2000 1846Z 136.5 MM0ALM 22-Feb-2000 1843Z (449) 136.8 G3KEV 22-Feb-2000 1354Z cq (569) 136.9 I5MXX 20-Feb-2000 1803Z 599 136.8 OE5ODL 20-Feb-2000 1143Z 569 cq 136.9 DK5PT 20-Feb-2000 1050Z 549 136.5 DJ1ZB 20-Feb-2000 0937Z 559 cq 136.5 HB2ASB 20-Feb-2000 0851Z 579 G3NYK de GB7DXM 27-Feb 2140Z > G3NYK de GB7DXM 27-Feb 2140Z > 1800.0 EI0CF 23-Feb-2000 2243Z 136.4khz cq 1800.0 G3AQC 23-Feb-2000 2213Z cq 136.55khz 1800.0 GM3YXM/P 23-Feb-2000 2017Z QRS CQ on 137.726khz 1800.0 GM3YXM/P 23-Feb-2000 1901Z QRS CQ on 137.726khz 1800.0 DJ5BV 23-Feb-2000 1722Z cq 136.90khz 1800.0 GW4ALG 20-Feb-2000 1218Z cq 136.32khz 1800.0 G3OLB 20-Feb-2000 1059Z wkg gb2cpm 137.33khz 1800.0 GB2CPM 20-Feb-2000 1056Z 137.10khz G3NYK de GB7DXM 27-Feb 2144Z > Cheers and 73 de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17030 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2000 07:29:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 07:29:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PKPE-0002J0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 07:15:48 +0000 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PKPC-0002Iv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 07:15:47 +0000 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 12PKP3-0003Av-0K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 07:15:38 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <38BA1FDD.F18E5F70@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 07:12:29 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: GM References: <02a801bf8167$347412a0$0600a8c0@main> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave wrote: > On Saturday morning I was getting a lovely 559 copy from Ossi OE5ODL but he > took such a long time getting Steve's callsign right ( that's a-l-G! ) that > he faded down before I called. I'm very sorry that you missed Ossi. At the start of the QSO with OE5ODL, I sent 449, and received 229. Although Ossi confirmed receipt of his 449 report, I then realised that he was sending my call as 'GW4AL'. I lost count of the number of times that I sent 'GW4ALG', or just 'ALG'. I began thinking that this was going to be one that got away. But then Ossi started sending the correct suffix! . . . and signals had improved to 559/449. We had done it! And over a very difficult path of 1219 km too! (Country number 14, all on normal speed CW.) Of course, the 136 kHz band was quite busy, and I was also getting bursts of local electrical noise. This QSO would not have been possible without my newly constructed 40 Hz audio filter, as designed by PA0LQ. Whenever I switched the filter out, Ossi's signal simply disappeared into the noise. PA0LQ heard in Rybinsk ********************** In a recent letter from Harry, he writes ". . . last month I got a QSL card from a Russian listener (UA3-158-382) located in Rybinsk. He reported my 136 kHz signal RST 569 on 20 March 1999 while I had a QSO with DJ5BV . . . Rybinsk is about 250 km NNE from Moscow, thus giving a distance of over 2200 km to my QTH." We can only imagine the other successes that Harry would have had on 136 kHz, had it not been for the antenna restrictions which resulted in him going QRT. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2355 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2000 07:49:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 07:49:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PKnD-0002W4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 07:40:35 +0000 Received: from mail2.dada.it ([195.110.96.69] helo=mail.dada.it) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PKnB-0002Vz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 07:40:34 +0000 Received: (qmail 19074 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2000 07:39:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cestag) (195.110.102.79) by mail.dada.it with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 07:39:26 -0000 Message-ID: <000f01bf81be$f1a11ba0$4f666ec3@cestag> From: "cesare tagliabue" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re-stranger signals Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 08:38:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
        Hi Peter and all
            After your last message I have inspected once more the spectran screen and I suspect that the weak signal at
left of the screen is the end of my previous CQ call. In fact I have changed a bit the frequency after this call.
   73   Cesare
 
 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7748 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2000 08:41:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 08:41:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PLce-0002rS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 08:33:44 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PLca-0002rN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 08:33:40 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA21358 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:33:25 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000228103047.2e9fb136@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:30:47 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: 136kHz weak signals In-reply-to: <4.1.20000226215521.00a0a100@mailer.inrete.it> References: <1996011005584468199@zetnet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I had the same idea as Marco, or was it the first EME (moonbounce) signal heard on 136kHz (.... ..) 73, Rik At 22:11 26/02/00 +0100, you wrote: >In 22.05 26/02/00 , Peter G3LDO wrote: >... >> >>It turned out to be sending the same data as GM3YXM/P but with a >>mystery delay timing difference of around three seconds. >> > >Hello Peter, > >SPECTRAN takes some time to process the input signal, maybe three >seconds with your setting. Then the processed signal becomes available >on the line and speaker out of the S/B. > >Possibly it is an audio signal re-entering the input of the S/B. I am not >able to explain the frequency difference, however; but it may be due to >the signal processing. I will ask Alberto I2PHD. > >But you may try with a local QRSS signal. If the cause is the S/B-software >system it should be easy to detect. Otherwise... echoes from a >trans-dimensional alien mothership? > > >73 - Marco IK1ODO > >spin@inrete.it > >Rivalta, ITALY JN35SA (N 45 01' 25.6", E 7 31' 09.4", Loran-C fix) > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2489 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2000 08:48:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 08:48:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PLkh-0002xt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 08:42:03 +0000 Received: from ns1.swh.sk ([192.108.125.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PLkf-0002xo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 08:42:01 +0000 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes [195.41.64.129]) by ns1.swh.sk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA26663 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:41:45 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [195.41.64.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA04267 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:41:42 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:41:39 +0100 Message-ID: <92CA25F78271D111969400A024297F5B02F910C3@btss.swh.sk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Gasparik Richard" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: LF.OM2TW Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:41:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Laurie... I hear you very weak in QSO with OE5ODL, but QSB was very strong. Maybe later...I must do a better receiving antenna. So, good luck... 73 de Rich OM2TW http://www.qsl.net/om2tw > -----Original Message----- > From: LAWRENCE MAYHEAD [SMTP:LAURIE@g3aqc.freeserve.co.uk] > Sent: 27. február 2000 19:30 > To: rsgb lf group > Subject: LF: LF.OM2TW > > Hi Rick, > Heard you here in south of England Sat 26/2/2000 at 20:40.Readable signal > at 4/3/9.Called you twice but no copy your end! Will try again.73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20221 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2000 09:43:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 09:43:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PMbb-0003MP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:36:43 +0000 Received: from apollo.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.125]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PMbX-0003MK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:36:39 +0000 Received: from pc171.geog.le.ac.uk ([143.210.25.171] helo=kate) by apollo.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.03 #1) id 12PMbO-0007Ig-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:36:30 +0000 From: "kate moore" To: "lfgroup" Subject: LF: Weekend report Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:31:15 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: EU activity heard since Friday on 136kHz normal CW: OZ8NJ (569), HB9DCE (449), DJ6FU (569), PA0BWL (559), SM6PXJ (569), PI4DEC (579), DK9DX (569), OH1XF (559QSB), DJ5DI (559), OE5ODL (559), PA0SE (579), IK5ZPV (569), DJ5BV (559), EI0CF (589), OG5UFO (559), I5MXX (559). with all the usual stations from G and GW, plus GM3YXM/P back in Galloway and G4JNT, on Friday night, sending PSK test transmissions (S7). Conditions have again been very variable, with lots of QSB - the more distant signals often rising out of the noise, reaching a peak for some time and then fading away again. CFH was audible here from around 19.00UT to 09.00UT. Activity levels were very high, and even Friday was busy throughout the day with many contacts being made. Dave GM3YXM/P was a very strong signal during the afternoon, flying his kite antenna near Stranraer. I worked 9 countries on Saturday, but didn't hear anything from OM2TW. An interesting new one was OH1XF who was RST-449 with deep QSB during our QSO at 08.52UT, but eventually drifted into the carrier on 136.650kHz, so I lost him right at the end. He re-appeared briefly a little later at 559. After last week's QSO with Marzio, I was very pleased to have my best ever QSO with Valerio IK5ZPV at 14.30UT, followed just over an hour later by a very good QSO with SM6PXJ - three CW contacts greater than 1000km distance within a few hours, and all during daylight. This band never ceases to amaze me! The weather was lousy here on Sunday morning; fairly soon the wind chafed the near halyard I should have replaced ages ago, and down came the antenna. As I had such a good day on Saturday, I decided to wait for a nicer day to refurbish it properly, and had a pleasant rest from radio instead - thus, nothing at all to report. Regards John G4GVC near Leicester, IO92JP ** TX: Synth + 400W RF from modified 'G3YXM' Mosfet PA ** ** RX: TS-850S with 3 x CW filters and 0.5ppm TCXO ** ** Ant: Inv-L 60m long, 6m high at feed end, 12m high at far end ** From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13473 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2000 10:06:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1.swh.sk) (192.108.125.33) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 10:06:41 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes [195.41.64.129]) by ns1.swh.sk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA29680; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:06:35 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [195.41.64.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA20898; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:06:32 +0100 (MET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:06:29 +0100 Message-ID: <92CA25F78271D111969400A024297F5B02F91169@btss.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" , "OM6KW Radoslav Galis \(E-mail\)" , "Dave G3YXM \(E-mail\)" Subject: OM2TW 26/27.2.2000 report Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:06:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Hi... I was active during last weekend 26/27.2.2000 Worked: S57A (first OM/S5 QSO), OE5ODL, SM6PXJ, OH1BS (first OM/OH QSO), IK5ZPV (first OM/I QSO), DL1SAN and DJ1ZB. Heard: G3AQC (559), G3LDO (579), DJ5BV (339), DJ2LF (559), OG5UFO (QSO not complete because of local QRM). Also worked crossband (QSX 3577kHz): OM5RW, OM3ID, OM2KM, OM1BM, OM3PC and OK1FIG. Sked with YO2IS: no copy him, he copied my signal, but Szigy YO2IS have only 50W and 40m wire. I have tested an RFT EKD-300 receiver (operating in the range 14kHz-30MHz) with its 50Hz filter. I'll be back on the band in about 2 or 3 weeks. See you and good luck. 73 de Rich OM2TW mailto:om2tw@contesting.com http://www.qsl.net/om2tw From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16508 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2000 10:28:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 10:28:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PNJW-0003oS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:22:06 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PNJV-0003oN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:22:05 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA44040 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:21:55 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000228121916.0907718e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:19:16 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: "Low loss inductors" ..EW&WW In-reply-to: <000801bf803e$233d2280$b6d499d4@w8k3f0> References: <000e01bf7fc0$25daae00$5ca201d5@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: There have been some mails about using a (rather big) piece as inductor. Dick (PA0SE) gave us the results of a computer calculation (TRA from N6BV) and that seems quite OK to me, except for the fact how to interprete the 'Additional line loss due to SWR' : When you use a coax as a transmission line you want to get as much power as possible into the load (= antenna) at the end of the line. Therefore this load must be matched to the impedance at the end of the line, otherwise a part of the power is reflected back into the line (we all know the as famous 'SWR'). But if you use a piece of coax as inductor you deliberately make a short-circuit at the end of the coax, creating a 100% reflection there. In case of a lossless coax the SWR at the other end of the coax would be endless (all power is returning). For a 'non perfect' coax a part of the power is absorbed in the cable, making the SWR less than endless. TLA takes an attenuation of 0.053dB/100ft (= 0.177dB/100m) for RG213. So for 300m this is 0.53dB, but the signal has to travel twice the length of the cable (once to the end and then back to the begin as 'reflected signal') so total attenuation is 1.06dB. This means that, whatever power you send into the cable, you wil get 78.3% back as reflected power. Based on the formula: SWR = (1+sqrt(R))/(1-sqrt(R)) where R = reflection coificient (% / 100) and sqrt = square root 78.3% reflected power equals an SWR of 16.4 (matches pretty good with the 16.67 SWR from the TLA software). But (and here comes the BIG BUT) if we use the coax as an inductor this reflected power is not a loss, in contadiction as we try to make a high-Q coil we just want to get all the power back (with as less powerloss as possible in the coax). So the 'perfect coaxial inductor' must have a endless SWR, in practice it means the higher the SWR (and so called 'Additional line loss due to SWR') the better. Apart from the above I think that making a 3mH coil from coax is rather expensive and heavy (300m of RG213 weight 46kg) and, as you will loose 21.7% of the TX power, the Q will be not so good : Assume you run 1kW into an antenna with a enviroment loss of 50 Ohm and use the coax as coil. Then you will loose 217W in the 'coil' and the remaining 783W (minus a few 100mW radiated) in the 50 Ohm enviroment loss. This means that you antennacurrent will be 4A (calculated from P and R) and thus the 217W coil-loss equals a resistance of 13.6 Ohm. With 3mH = 2560 Ohm (at 136kHz) the 'coax coil' will have an equivalent Q of about 190. I am sure that it is easier (and cheaper and lighter) to make a more traditional loadingcoil with a better Q. 73, Rik ON7YD > >With the ARRL "Antenna Book" comes a floppy disk with a Transmission Line >computer program called TLA, written by N6BV. I used version 1.0 . > >The program does not know the British type UR65 but from another source I >understand it can be compared to RG-213. > >For 300 m (984 ft) of RG-213, short circuited at one end, the program >produces the foillowing results:: > >Frequency: 0.137 MHz >Transmission line characteristic impedance: 50.0 - j 2.30 Ohms >Matched -line loss, dB per 100 ft: 0.053 dB >Velocity factor of transmission line: 0.660 >Maximum voltage rating of transmission line: 3700.0 V >Matched-line attenuation = 0.522 dB >Resistive part of impedance at load: 0.0001 >(I typed 0 Ohms, but the program apparently changes that into 0.0001 - >PA0SE) >Reactive part of impedance: 0 >SWR at load: 4793489.50 >SWR at line input: 16.67 >Additional line loss due to SWR: 60.281 dB >Total line loss: 60.803 dB (100.0%) > >At line input, Zin = 49.42 + j 172.52 >At 1500 W, max. rms voltage on line: 988.6 V >Distance from load for peak voltage = 984 ft > >So as a dummy load it would not be too bad .... > >73, Dick, PA0SE >JO22GD >D.W. Rollema >V.d. Marckstraat 5 >2352 RA Leiderdorp >The Netherlands >Tel. +31 589 27 34 >E-mail: d.w.rollema@freeler.nl >or >pa0se@amsat.org > > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27115 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2000 11:43:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 11:43:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12POSq-0004Jv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:35:48 +0000 Received: from hermes.iol.cz ([194.228.2.36]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12POSn-0004Jq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:35:45 +0000 Received: from dell1.cz.gmc.net ([194.228.225.18]) by hermes.iol.cz (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 631-65168U60000L60000S0V35) with ESMTP id cz for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:35:20 +0100 Received: from p (P.MALY [192.168.1.35]) by dell1.cz.gmc.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id FZ71NXBJ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:37:42 +0100 Message-ID: <003d01bf81e0$39a16880$2301a8c0@maly.cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: "136 group" References: <92CA25F78271D111969400A024297F5B02F91169@btss.swh.sk> Subject: LF: Re: OM2TW 26/27.2.2000 report Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:37:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Rich, Congrats for new countries. You can hear your transmission at: http://mujweb.cz/www/ok1fig/lfsounds.htm Thanks for the QSO, at least cross-band this time. 73, Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24629 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2000 13:33:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 13:33:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PQAI-0005IP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:24:46 +0000 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PQAH-0005IK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:24:45 +0000 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12PQA6-0006Tv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:24:34 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:14:12 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:14:10 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Weekend report 26/27 Feb X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Saturday 26 February Low noise level and conditions good. Greek RTTY S8 and CFH S4 at 0830. Heard G3OLB (599); GM3YXM/P (569); G4GVC (599); G6RO (559); PA0SE (579); OE5ODL (329) country number 18 heard; G3BDQ (599); IK5ZPV (439) called but got only some QRZs from him; PI4DEC (549) station number 95 heard; PA0LEG (559); G8RW (599); DJ5BV (549) and G3GRO (599). Sunday 27 February Heard CFH at S9 at 0400. Low noise level in the morning and Greek RTTY was S9 all day. Much higher noise level after 1200. Heard DJ5BV (549); SM6PXJ (549); EI0CF (559). Almost worked IK5ZPV on CW - I called many times and got many QRZs. He even got as far as 'G4XDV?', but we abandoned in the end. Thanks, Valerio, for trying for so long. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23343 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2000 14:43:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 14:43:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PRGF-0005nv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:34:59 +0000 Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PRGE-0005nq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:34:58 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.e6.217fd14 (7331) for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:34:06 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:34:06 EST Subject: Re: LF: Re: Low loss inductors To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 137 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 2/27/00 9:10:10 GMT Daylight Time, vernall@xtra.co.nz writes: << Does any reader have a drum of coaxial cable and a low frequency bridge test set? A practical measurement should sort out a quantitative result. >> Not a test set for measuring at 136k. But abt 70m of RG58 on drum measures: With short at far end - 37.16uH With open cct at far end 6.265nF. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22496 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2000 14:59:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 14:59:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PRWS-00061q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:51:44 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PRWR-00061l-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:51:43 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA111552 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:51:34 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000228164856.09a71d04@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:48:56 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Field strength revised In-reply-to: <000701bf8166$fae4a900$c22597d4@win95.swipnet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: If you calibrate the loop it is not nessecary to use an untuned loop. If you use a tuned loop the output voltage will be much higher (factor Q, can easily be 100 or more). This will allow to measure at larger distances. The fact that Christers measures 6dB difference on 2 places each 2km from his TX is interesting. I don't believe that the antenna can be that directive, so there must be another reason. 73, Rik ON7YD At 22:09 27/02/00 +0100, you wrote: >Hello All > >Thanks to PA0SE for suggesting the calibration method. >I tried this method this evening and believe I'm somewhat closer to the truth... > >Obviously the measuring loop with the connection wiring was resonant far lower in frequency than expected. This made the figures a bit optimistic. > >Now I have a 6,3 dB difference between calculated (2,4 W) and measured radiated power (0,65 W). > >More details on my home page >http://home5.swipnet.se/~w-54761/fs.htm > >73 >Christer >SM6PXJ > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23314 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2000 15:02:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 15:02:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PRVz-00061b-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:51:15 +0000 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PRVy-00061W-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:51:14 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust58.tnt20.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.53.14.58]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 3F4D2CAE64 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:50:35 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000201bf81fc$0d2910c0$3a0e35d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200002261407.OAA00226@post.interalpha.net> <003601bf810d$f49f45e0$e9d499d4@w8k3f0> <38B98276.6F4E@xtra.co.nz> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Low loss inductors Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:28:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All from PA0SE Bob, ZL2CA, wrote: > I am strongly of the view that coaxial cable with the far end either short or open > termination is mostly reactive at LF when "looking" in to the near end > of the cable. The main issue is the loss factor (or Q). Which has the > higher Q, a coil or a shorted end coaxial cable? > > >From an intuitive point of view, I would think a purpose built coil > would give lowest losses for a given value of inductance needed. The > designer is in full control of countermeasures for skin effect, > proximity effect, voltage gradient and can select the best length to > diameter ratio for a given frequency band. On the other hand, coaxial > cable is widely used at VHF/UHF for "stub matching", however it does not > appear to be technique that has been used on lower bands, where lumped > components are generally preferred, and can be variable (variable > capacitors and variometers) and so are more useful for "tuning up" or > adjusting for a good match to 50 ohms. Using N6BV's transmission line computer program TLA I have inserted different lengths of RG-213 coax, terminated in a short circuit. Starting from zero length the inductive reactance "seen" at the input of the cable starts to rise and reaches a maximum at about 1130 ft (344 m) of cable. There Zin = 435 +j 334 Ohm. When the length increases further X decreases and reaches zero when quarter wave resonance is reached. X = j 334 Ohm corresponds to an inductance of 388 microhenry. Apparently that is the maximum "coil" that can be constructed this way. But Q = 334/435 = 0.76. So it just does not work. That an "inductor" made this way has so much loss is not so difficult to explain. In a normal coil at LF the current has the same value at all points. The (I squared * R) loss per cm of wire is the same throughout the coil. But in an inductor made of a piece of coax, shorted at its end, current rises from the value at the input to a much larger value near the end. As loss is proportional to current squared the contribution to the loss in the pieces of coax near the end is very much larger than the loss near the beginning of the cable. The end result is a much larger loss than in the case of uniform current distribution and this translates into a larger R component in Zin = R + j X. At VHF the story is different. For instance a 23 cm long piece of RG-213 coax, shorted at its end, has at 145 MHz an input impedance of Zin = 0.78 + j 88.99 ohm. This looks like an inductor of 0.1 microhenry with Q = 88.99/0.78 = 114. Although the loss/100 ft of the cable at 145 MHz is very much higher than on 137 kHz this is more than compensated for by the small length of the cable. Therefore shorted (open) stubs as inductors (capacitors) can be used succesfully at VHF and UHF. 73, Dick Rollema, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6653 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2000 15:24:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 15:24:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PRuz-0006DP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:17:05 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PRuy-0006DK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:17:04 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA27252 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:16:55 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000228171416.2217bc50@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:14:16 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Low loss inductors In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The inductance of a coax 'stub' is frequency dependent ! According to the formula for a loss-less cable (given in an earlier mail, should be OK for 136kHz) 70m of RG58 cable should be about 17uH. For higher frequency this value will increase, until it reaches 'endless' for a quarter-wave stub (at +/- 700kHz). Based on a value for 37uH the frequency used to measure should be arround 550kHz. 73, Rik ON7YD At 09:34 28/02/00 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 2/27/00 9:10:10 GMT Daylight Time, vernall@xtra.co.nz >writes: > ><< Does any reader have a drum of coaxial cable and a low frequency bridge > test set? A practical measurement should sort out a quantitative > result. >> > >Not a test set for measuring at 136k. But abt 70m of RG58 on drum measures: > >With short at far end - 37.16uH >With open cct at far end 6.265nF. > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28450 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2000 15:43:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 15:43:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PS4l-0006M5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:27:11 +0000 Received: from ds9.sci.fi ([195.74.0.54]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PS4j-0006M0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:27:09 +0000 Received: from default (DXCV.tdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.80.95]) by ds9.sci.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA24104 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:27:04 +0200 (EET) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000228172701.008082a0@laatikko.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@laatikko.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:27:01 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: Re: LF: Field strength revised In-reply-to: <000701bf8166$fae4a900$c22597d4@win95.swipnet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020902040304070906070308" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020902040304070906070308 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hejsan Christer, Just curious - how do you calculate your Fs. 0.3 W at 2 km should give 68 dB(uV/m) 0.6 W at 2 km should give 71 dB(uV/m) Both calculating and measuring Fs is difficult. Main point is that you have very good signal!! de Väinö, OH2LX At 22:09 27.2.2000 +0100, you wrote: >Hello All > >Thanks to PA0SE for suggesting the calibration method. >I tried this method this evening and believe I'm somewhat closer to the truth... > >Obviously the measuring loop with the connection wiring was resonant far lower in frequency than expected. This made the figures a bit optimistic. > >Now I have a 6,3 dB difference between calculated (2,4 W) and measured radiated power (0,65 W). > >More details on my home page >http://home5.swipnet.se/~w-54761/fs.htm > >73 >Christer >SM6PXJ --------------020902040304070906070308 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; name="Gin.out" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Gin.out" GROUND WAVE FIELD-STRENGTH, MILLINGTON METHOD GW LF Ham 136. kHz FIELD-STRENGTH DB ABOVE 1 MICROVOLT/METER EPS =10.0 SIG = .5 mS/m FREQ = 136. kHz POWER = .30 W DIST. (KM) F-S (dBuV/m) 1.0 74.1 2.0 68.0 3.0 64.3 4.0 61.7 5.0 59.7 6.0 58.0 7.0 56.5 8.0 55.3 9.0 54.2 10.0 53.2 30.0 41.7 50.0 35.0 70.0 30.4 90.0 26.6 END OF CIRCUIT LOPPU --------------020902040304070906070308 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; name="ATT06296.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="ATT06296.txt" DQotLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tDQpWLksuTGVodG9yYW50YSwgT0gyTFgsIFBPQm94IDUwLCBGSU4tMDU0MDEgSm9r ZWxhLCBGaW5sYW5kDQotLS0tLS0gVGVsOiArMzU4LTktNDE3Mzk2NSAtLS0tIEZheDogKzM1 OC05LTQxNzM5NjEgLS0tLS0tDQpFLW1haWw6IHZhaXNraUBkbGMuZmkgLSBhbGlhczogb2gy bHhAZGxjLmZpICYgb2gybHhAc3JhbC5maQ== --------------020902040304070906070308-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2095 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2000 18:42:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 18:42:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PUt8-0007ub-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 18:27:22 +0000 Received: from mb09.swip.net ([193.12.122.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PUt3-0007uV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 18:27:18 +0000 Received: from win95 (d212-151-38-212.swipnet.se [212.151.38.212]) by mb09.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA20922 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:26:14 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <001801bf8219$cc4795e0$d42697d4@win95.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: "RSGB LF group" Subject: SV: LF: Field strength revised Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:29:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ON7YD wrote: >If you calibrate the loop it is not nessecary to use an untuned loop. If >you use a tuned loop the output voltage will be much higher (factor Q, can >easily be 100 or more). This will allow to measure at larger distances. I think there is a point in using an untuned loop (or at least one with low Q). It should be less affected by nearby objects than a high-Q loop. /Christer sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3135 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2000 18:44:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 18:44:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PUxJ-0007vZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 18:31:41 +0000 Received: from mb09.swip.net ([193.12.122.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PUxI-0007vT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 18:31:40 +0000 Received: from win95 (d212-151-38-212.swipnet.se [212.151.38.212]) by mb09.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA02623 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:30:36 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <002c01bf821a$68a3f780$d42697d4@win95.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: SV: LF: Field strength revised Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:34:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: OH2LX: >Just curious - how do you calculate your Fs. P=0,0111*(E*d)^2 (P in W, E in mV/m, d in km) >Main point is that you have very good signal!! Maybe. Just interested to see if it is possible to make some measurements without expensive test gear. 73 Christer From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5792 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2000 20:27:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 20:27:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PWdF-0000F2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 20:19:05 +0000 Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PWdE-0000Ew-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 20:19:04 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12PWaS-0007lN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 20:16:12 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <12535.200002282023@gemini> From: "James Moritz" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 20:24:21 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: 73kHz/Coaxial Stubs/field strength X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Spent a couple of hours on 73kHz on Friday evening; didn't see/hear any other signals - Rugby TX was generating it's usual racket. However, the effort was worth it because my signal was seen by Markus, DF6NM, in Bavaria, as he reported earlier. Great stuff. I intend to keep doing Fridays on 73kHz; I will also try and get on the band on Saturday mornings if time permits - we've only got until June, after all! I hope to improve my signal before then, too. Unfortunately, I probably won't be on tommorow (well, it's sort-of - first-Tuesday-in-March), due to other commitments. I noticed the Rugby TX is quite often idling these days - it was Friday before last, and also over most of the weekend - under these conditions it puts out two carriers, separated by 85Hz, and although there are intermods at 85Hz intervals through the whole band, these are much less of a problem than the wideband noise usually present. Worth keeping an eye on. Read the discussion about using a coaxial stub for a loading coil with some interest - it just so happened that today I was doing something which involved cutting a lot of lengths of UR67 from a reel, so before I started I put the whole lot on a HP4275A LCR meter, measuring at 100kHz. With the far end shorted, the inductance of the 50m reel was 14.5uH, and the series resistance 1ohm. this amounts to a Q of only 9. It's a bit difficult to use the text book equations, since the cable parameters at 136kHz are not usually specified. In order that people can work out the impedance for other lengths, I also measured the per-unit-length parameters with open and short circuit terminations (and assuming 50m is a small fraction of a wavelength). These were: L=290nH/m; R=0.02ohm/m C=103pF/m; G=60nS/m (G is too small to be measured really, or to make a lot of difference for that matter; 100kHz should be close enough to 136kHz for practical purposes. UR67 is equivalent to RG213 etc.). I used the PSpice circuit simulator to work out the impedance of different length stubs (saves me getting it wrong 98 times on paper!). The results were similar to what G0MRF stated - the maximum inductive reactance I could get was about 320ohms, or about 375uH. At this point the Q was 1, so not very helpful. As a capacitor, the 50m of cable was much better, 5.16nF with a Q of more than 1000 (more than the LCR meter can measure), so using it to tune a loop looks like a good idea. Interesting to see Christer's field strength measurement results - from my experience, loop antennas behave quite well , so the results should be within a few dB. In view of the discussions about propagation, losses etc., I wonder if Christer could tell us a bit about the environment around his QTH, and the places where he made the measurements? I am working on a portable field-strength measuring setup (so much to do, so little time.....), for which I have an old Rycom 3136 selective voltmeter - if anyone knows where I can get circuit data for this, I would be eternally grateful! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8726 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2000 22:24:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 22:24:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PYSv-0001Af-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 22:16:33 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PYSt-0001Aa-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 22:16:31 +0000 Received: from [62.6.93.222] (helo=default) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12PYSc-0002I5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 22:16:14 +0000 Message-ID: <000701bf8238$a833a6c0$de5d063e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Additional DX Cluster spots from DB0MBX Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 18:59:52 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Additional spots to those appearing on GB7DXM, as displayed on DB0MBX , thanks to Wolf DL1SAN 137.7 I5TGC 27-Feb-2000 0949Z slow-cw "M" 136.9 IK5ZPV 27-Feb-2000 0849Z on the top of G3LDO... 136.9 G3LDO 27-Feb-2000 0848Z 136.9 OM2TM 27-Feb-2000 0839Z 439 136.9 OM2TW 27-Feb-2000 0836Z correct call 136.5 OM2TW 27-Feb-2000 0554Z 599 fb 136.8 IK5ZPV 27-Feb-2000 0547Z just in QSO with me... 136.3 SM6PXJ 26-Feb-2000 2142Z in QSO 136.8 IK5ZPV 25-Feb-2000 1703Z 599+ qrb 320km 136.8 S57A 25-Feb-2000 1649Z CQ on VLF 579 here 136.3 G3KEV 25-Feb-2000 1552Z (579) ufb cq cq 136.8 OZ8NJ 25-Feb-2000 1550Z (439) in qso with gm3yxm/p 136.8 HB9DCE 25-Feb-2000 1530Z (539) 136.8 GM3YXM/P 25-Feb-2000 1522Z (549) 136.5 MM0ALM 25-Feb-2000 1519Z (539) in qo with G3YXM 137.0 G3KEV 24-Feb-2000 1701Z 136.9 I5TGC 24-Feb-2000 1658Z 579 ufb 136.5 G4GVC 24-Feb-2000 1533Z (549) cq 136.9 G3KEV 24-Feb-2000 1531Z (559) 136.5 I5MXX 21-Feb-2000 1914Z cq 599 73 de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14441 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2000 22:25:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 22:25:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PYSw-0001Am-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 22:16:34 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PYSv-0001Ah-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 22:16:34 +0000 Received: from [62.6.93.222] (helo=default) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12PYSf-0002I5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 22:16:17 +0000 Message-ID: <000901bf8238$aa099f40$de5d063e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: 1 watt EIRP English station heard in Newfoundland !! Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:47:50 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all.....OK it wasn't 136kHz.... it was a Low Power MW BC transmission (1 watt EIRP to a 10m aerial) so the frequency was maybe a decade higher. Against that the station was running AM and the signal was decoded and recorded and extract from 3 songs, and a 'real audio' clip provided and confirmed. The station was also on the East Coast of England, Frinton-on-sea. This is reported on page 77 of the current Radcom, in George Dobbs' QRP page. I will check with Steve Whitt who is a MW enthusiast, and an ex collegue of mine at BT, to see if I can find the time of the logging, the date is given as 4th August 1999. It would also be interesting to know what the rx set-up was. The distance is quoted as 3850kms. Yes this is the March issue of Radcom not the April issue! 73 de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21011 invoked from network); 29 Feb 2000 01:03:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Feb 2000 01:03:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PavL-0002S8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Feb 2000 00:54:03 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PavJ-0002S3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Feb 2000 00:54:01 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA10516 for ; Tue, 29 Feb 2000 00:53:52 GMT X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <2000022900103368199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 00:10:33 GMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re: strange signals Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit from Cesare > After your last message I have inspected once more the = > spectran screen and I suspect that the weak signal at > left of the screen is the end of my previous CQ call. In fact I have = > changed a bit the frequency after this call. Well, that has cleared up that little mystery. I can see that the letters are G G then K so it is Cesare. Note that the spectrum is much cleaner down at 137.700 to 137.720 so it is suprising that Cesare's 20mW was detectable at 137.738 where there is a lot more noise. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18972 invoked from network); 29 Feb 2000 09:40:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Feb 2000 09:40:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Pioh-0006As-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:19:43 +0000 Received: from mta02.talk21.com ([62.172.192.41] helo=t21mta02-app.talk21.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Piog-0006Al-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:19:42 +0000 Received: from dave ([213.1.28.142]) by t21mta02-app.talk21.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20000229091836.HPJ1793.t21mta02-app.talk21.com@dave> for ; Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:18:36 +0000 Message-ID: <002501bf8296$09f4b2c0$8e1c01d5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <12535.200002282023@gemini> Subject: LF: Re: 73kHz/Coaxial Stubs/field strength Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:17:35 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC M0BMU wrote: Received: (qmail 6752 invoked from network); 29 Feb 2000 15:41:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Feb 2000 15:41:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PoYR-0000dg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Feb 2000 15:27:19 +0000 Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.35]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PoYN-0000dU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Feb 2000 15:27:15 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.a9.2554daa (3897) for ; Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:26:33 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:26:32 EST Subject: Re: LF: 1 watt EIRP English station heard in Newfoundland !! To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 137 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 2/28/00 11:24:02 GMT Daylight Time, Alan.Melia@btinternet.com writes: << The station was also on the East Coast of England, Frinton-on-sea. This is reported on page 77 of the current Radcom, in George Dobbs' QRP page. I will check with Steve Whitt who is a MW enthusiast, and an ex collegue of mine at BT, >> Be a little cautious about the 1W EIRP of this restricted service licensed MW station. While the Radio Authority issues 1 W EIRP licences, (and 10 -25W on FM) the practical implementation frequently results in the ERP being exceeded. During last summer, a station with a 28 day licence operated their 1W EIPR from a ship also located on the East Coast of the UK. A friend of mine was invited on a tour of the ship and was amused to see that the 1W EIRP was being generated by 2 x 813 Valves and a big T antenna. Perhaps they employed a loading coil using several hundred metres of coax? (Hi) 73 David From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7570 invoked from network); 29 Feb 2000 19:50:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Feb 2000 19:50:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PsNo-0002c6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:32:36 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PsNn-0002c1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:32:35 +0000 Received: from [195.44.214.250] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12PsNe-0006XP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:32:26 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <38BBF2AA.BCDCF764@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 16:24:10 +0000 From: "g3kev" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: GM ACTY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave. you did well from GM and especially with the kite. As far as I know Ossi/OE5ODL has worked MMOALM. I worked HB9DCE also, first time for me. 73 Mal/G3KEV