From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21380 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2000 20:48:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Jan 2000 20:48:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 124VC4-000088-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 01 Jan 2000 20:32:08 +0000 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 124VC3-000083-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 01 Jan 2000 20:32:07 +0000 Received: from rgcomms.demon.co.uk ([193.237.77.63] helo=G) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 124VC2-000DNT-0C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 20:32:06 +0000 From: "Graham Phillips" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group" Subject: LF: New Country ? Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 20:31:40 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all LF'ers, Happy new century to all. Today I heard G6RO calling TF1IT ... I could hear nothing and I don't think that Ron had a QSO. I could hear nothing, but that's nothing unusual with the QRM at this QTH ! So, is this a new country on the band ? 73 de Graham B. Phillips. G3XTZ. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14328 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2000 22:14:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Jan 2000 22:14:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 124WPg-0000XY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 01 Jan 2000 21:50:16 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 124WPf-0000XT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 01 Jan 2000 21:50:15 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id VAA06166 for ; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 21:50:13 GMT X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <2000010121540568199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 21:54:05 GMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: Re: LF: HB9ASB QRT Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Toni > Unfortunately I lost my LF-antenna in the storm and it is not to repair. > May be I will come back one day in the next millennium. In the meantime > I wish you all a happy new year and good DX. Sorry to hear of the loss of your antenna - your signal will be missed on the band. It has provided us all with encouraging LF signal reports in the very early days and QSOs ever since (My first 2 way 136 QSO with HB9ASB was on 5/8/98). I'm sure that I am not alone in encouraging you to become active again on LF. Toni's continuously loaded vertical antenna, using a top-band dipole as a capacity top, is described in the LF Chapter of the RSGB Communication Handbook. This antenna was also used in a 73kHz/136kHz cross band slow CW QSO on 9/3/99. A happy YK2 to you all Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25733 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2000 23:10:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Jan 2000 23:10:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 124XYu-0000y7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 01 Jan 2000 23:03:52 +0000 Received: from cask.force9.net ([195.166.128.29]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 124XYt-0000y2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 01 Jan 2000 23:03:51 +0000 Received: (qmail 7943 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2000 23:03:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO main) (212.159.122.221) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2000 23:03:50 -0000 Message-ID: <000d01bf54ad$164bb940$0600a8c0@main> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <386CE1DF.BB0B2C4B@phonakcom.ch> Subject: LF: Re: HB9ASB QRT Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 23:08:12 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Toni Your signal will be missed, you are still the only HB9 that most of us have worked! I hope that you can get back on the band soon. Very best wishes for 2000 Dave G3YXM. > Unfortunately I lost my LF-antenna in the storm and it is not to repair. > May be I will come back one day in the next millennium. In the meantime > I wish you all a happy new year and good DX. > > 73 de Toni > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29081 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2000 23:13:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Jan 2000 23:13:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 124Xcc-0000yO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 01 Jan 2000 23:07:42 +0000 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 124Xcb-0000yJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 01 Jan 2000 23:07:41 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 124XcZ-000CDs-0V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 23:07:40 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <386E88B8.630F96B@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 23:07:36 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: New Email & WWW address Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear All, I am currently changing my service provider. So this is just a short note to let you know about my new addresses, which can be used immediately: New Email address: steve@alg.demon.co.uk New web site address: http://www.alg.demon.co.uk/radio/136/intro.htm I'd be grateful if you could update your bookmarks; links; and address book accordingly. With best regards for a peaceful and a healthy new year, Steve Rawlings, GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25160 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2000 10:06:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Jan 2000 10:06:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 124hkK-0004aC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2000 09:56:20 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from aurora.eexi.gr ([195.167.28.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 124hkJ-0004a7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2000 09:56:19 +0000 Received: from odin (ppp15.dialup.eexi.gr [195.167.28.78]) by aurora.eexi.gr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA19203 for ; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 11:56:35 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20000102110243.006af604@aurora.eexi.gr> X-Sender: sv1xv@aurora.eexi.gr X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 11:02:43 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Costas Krallis" Subject: Re: LF: New Email & WWW address In-reply-to: <386E88B8.630F96B@alg.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 23:07 01/01/2000 +0000, you wrote: > I am currently changing my service provider.... > ...I'd be grateful if you could update your bookmarks... > ...accordingly. Hi Steve, I updated the master file with LF links and I shall upload it to my web site soon: http://w4u.eexi.gr/~sv1xv/lw.htm Happy New Year Costas SV1XV +------------------------------------------------------------+ | Costas Krallis SV1XV * LOC KM18UA | | P.O.Box 3066 * FAX: +30-1-3811362 | | GR-10210 Athens * E-Mail: sv1xv@eexi.gr | | GREECE * | +------------------------------------------------------------+ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17739 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2000 11:12:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Jan 2000 11:12:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 124imB-0004wr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2000 11:02:19 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ab6qv.qnet.com ([209.221.203.114] helo=gw.ab6qv.ampr.org) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 124im9-0004wm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2000 11:02:17 +0000 X-BBS-Msg-Type: P X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 02:55:08 -0800 Message-ID: <43792@gw.ab6qv.ampr.org> From: yo2is@gw.ab6qv.ampr.org To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SAQ received in KN05ps... Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit From: YO2IS Happy New Year 2000, was glad to receive in very good conditions the SAQ 17.2KHz transmissions both days, best signal on 02 jan at 06.00 up to RST 559. Following the 1 jan transmission i went to 14.040 MHz an had a nice CW QSO with 7S6SAQ commemorative station from Grimeton. Used my 2m diam loop remote tuned and preamplified located under the roof in our downtown house. Still no more 137KHz contacts except my local friend in QRP. 73 & DX Szigy. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15832 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2000 19:22:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Jan 2000 19:22:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 124qO7-0007Zc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2000 19:09:59 +0000 Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.157]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 124qO6-0007ZX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2000 19:09:58 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-121-147.bellatlantic.net [151.200.121.147]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA23335; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:09:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <386FA100.DA2F7E51@bellatlantic.net> Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 14:03:28 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: SAQ heard in U.S. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Sandy Sanders wrote: > Hal (WB3KDU) and my self went out to a remote parking lot on the Blue > Ridge between Rt 50 and I-66 and were able to receive the transmission from > SAQ this morning (2 Jan). Ant was a 40 ft telescoping whip connected to a > home brew tuned preamp/converter using an Icom R71A with a 500 Hz filter as > a tunable 4 MHz IF. > Transmissions started a few min before 0100 GMT with lots of V's and the > call SAQ. Messages were sent at 0100, 0130 and 0200. A tape was made and > will be played at the next AMRAD function. > Sandy > WB5MMB > > _______________________________________________ > lf mailing list > lf@amrad.org > http://www.amrad.org/mailman/listinfo/lf From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12347 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2000 06:30:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Jan 2000 06:30:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1250sj-0002rD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Jan 2000 06:22:17 +0000 Received: from mta01.talk21.com ([62.172.192.171] helo=t21mta01-app.talk21.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1250sh-0002r8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Jan 2000 06:22:16 +0000 Received: from dave ([213.1.47.13]) by t21mta01-app.talk21.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <20000103062432.QOTN1955.t21mta01-app.talk21.com@dave> for ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 06:24:32 +0000 Message-ID: <000201bf55b2$dc002580$0d2f01d5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: New Country ? Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:33:39 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC I also heard TF1IT at several times on New Year's Day. He was on (or close to) the Ropex frequency but as far as I know did not work anybody. Ron called him a few times later in the day when I did not hear him, and I also heard John GVC trying to call him, apparantly with no success. As TF1IT was a solid 579 here (nearly as strong as Ron) I am a little suspicious about whether he was genuine. If he is real, perhaps he needs to work on his receiver. New Years Day started well, with me working Jack G3DQC/2K in Oxford at 0924 for a new one. Neither the first QSO on the band of the year nor the first /2K as Ron had worked him immediately before. Any earlier claimants for the first 136 QSO of the millenium? On Christmas Eve I popped in to see Des M0AYF in Gainsborough and we had a pleasant chat. Des's garden is not much bigger than mine, and he puts out an excellent signal with his 30W (and a GW4ALG transverter). Thanks again Des and hope to hear your signals on the band again soon. Best wishes for the new year Cheers Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18039 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2000 13:08:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Jan 2000 13:08:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12574m-00054l-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:59:08 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12574l-00054g-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:59:07 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from dennison.demon.co.uk ([194.222.239.33]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 12574k-000Fij-0K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 12:59:06 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 12:51:55 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Mike Dennison" Subject: Re: LF: HB9ASB QRT In-reply-to: <386CE1DF.BB0B2C4B@phonakcom.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > >Unfortunately I lost my LF-antenna in the storm and it is not to repair. >May be I will come back one day in the next millennium. In the meantime >I wish you all a happy new year and good DX. Toni, I am very sorry to hear that you lost your antenna. We had storms here in the UK and I had a few worrying nights wondering if the masts would stay up, but the TV showed that you had it much worse in central Eu. I am very keen to break the 1000km barrier on the 73kHz band and was hoping to have a sked with you at Easter when I am in West Wales. If you don't have the helical up again, I hope you can have a receive antenna by then. Good luck and thanks for the QSOs so far. -- Mike, G3XDV IO91VT http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7098 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2000 01:52:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Jan 2000 01:52:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125IwT-00018g-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2000 01:39:21 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111] helo=gadolinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125IwS-00018b-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2000 01:39:20 +0000 Received: from [213.1.145.133] (helo=default) by gadolinium with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 125IwR-00072q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 01:39:20 +0000 Message-ID: <000701bf5654$1b2340c0$859101d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots from GB7DXM ++++ CFH?? Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 01:35:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, whilst I was retrieving this file from the Cluster tonight, a stange noise came up on 136 and I didn't twig immediately then I saw a wide band down the middle of the waterfall display centred on 137.0kHz . It sounds like it could be Fax, but it is quite strong here, and I think it is too strong to be CFH (only about 3db weaker than the Greek RTTY), although CFH has been known to use 137.0 for fax when its usual transmitter ( around 122kHz) is down. I have mailed a query to Jon. My suspicion is that this is a European station that has annexed the old CFH frequency (or maybe its only a regional allocation). If so we could have a problem in future as the noise sidebands spread at least a 200Hz either side. If it is CFH, and the station was due for a new transmitter about now, then I have made a more spectacular improvement to my rx set-up than I imagined. We will see if it disappears at dawn. Last evening the 2nd Jan at about 2210z I was working at another task when a morse transmission came up on the speaker in the 2.5kHz filter. Its stregth was such that I cast half an ear to it expecting it to be a G station only to hear CQ de SM6PXJ ! Christer tried for 20 minutes with no takers, I was most surprised ....he must have worked you all already! That confirms the replacement aerial is still working well Christer. Note a new OK call in the lists below, one of Petr's compatriots has appeared to ease the load a little, whilst Petr gets some practice in spotting stateside calls! Cluster spots for the festive period from GB7DXM 136.5 DK7KO 3-Jan-2000 2036Z Peter / JO31 136.8 OK1AIK 2-Jan-2000 1402Z welcome on L.F. dr om 136.5 DK8KW 31-Dec-1999 1515Z 136.6 SM6PXJ 29-Dec-1999 2137Z calling CQ on CW 136.0 AA1AA 29-Dec-1999 0733Z sri, this is test only 136.6 DL3FDO 19-Dec-1999 1026Z 519 cq 136.9 DJ1RL 19-Dec-1999 1022Z 419 cq in jn48wl 136.8 MM0ALM 17-Dec-1999 2127Z vy strong CQ CQ 137.0 SM6PXJ 17-Dec-1999 2114Z QSO with PA0BWl 137.0 G3KEV 17-Dec-1999 1938Z CQ CQ G3NYK de GB7DXM 4-Jan 0012Z > Hope you all enjoyed the festivities, the cluster spots have been a bit sparse recently so I did not bother posting them. The 1800 area is now totally useless for LF spots due to internet imported Stateside top-band chat. Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22249 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2000 03:23:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Jan 2000 03:23:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125KDw-0001dr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2000 03:01:28 +0000 Received: from m11.boston.juno.com ([205.231.100.194]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125KDv-0001dm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2000 03:01:27 +0000 Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EVF5FKH4; Mon, 03 Jan 2000 21:58:25 EST X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:57:22 -0500 Subject: Re: LF: DX Cluster spots from GB7DXM ++++ CFH?? X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <20000103.215723.-125761.0.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-13,16-20 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Bob RIESE" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Tue, 4 Jan 2000 01:35:27 -0000 "Alan Melia" writes: >Hi all, whilst I was retrieving this file from the Cluster tonight, a >stange >noise came up on 136 and I didn't twig immediately then I saw a wide >band >down the middle of the waterfall display centred on 137.0kHz . It >sounds >like it could be Fax, but it is quite strong here, and I think it is was monitoring the AMRAD signal before dark and it wasnt there. During a QSO on 144 at about 2030 local, tuned around and there it was ,some 25 Db above the background noise. Really fills up the space Bob K3DJC 39.56 N,,, 76.40 W From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17051 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2000 08:00:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Jan 2000 08:00:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125Ofb-0003EA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2000 07:46:19 +0000 Received: from hermes.iol.cz ([194.228.2.36]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125OfY-0003E3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2000 07:46:16 +0000 Received: from dell1.GMC.NET ([194.228.133.44]) by hermes.iol.cz (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 631-64078U55000L55000S0V35) with ESMTP id cz for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 08:45:18 +0100 Received: from p (P.MALY [192.168.1.35]) by dell1.GMC.NET with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id Z7XXNHXH; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 08:48:51 +0100 Message-ID: <003b01bf5688$240c7380$2301a8c0@maly.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000701bf5654$1b2340c0$859101d5@default> Subject: LF: Re: DX Cluster spots from GB7DXM ++++ CFH?? Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 08:48:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all, Yes, another OK station appeared. It is OK1AIK. He phoned me that day and then I listened for him for a while with 569. He lives few tens of kilometers from me. Sorry for the test on DX cluss. Now I know on which nodes I can spot 136 kHz. What a relief. I also heard SM6PXJ. I was surprised because on my "city" antenna I usually hear nothing except very strong sigs. I also noticed some new signals on the band. One is in the middle of the Visual-CW part of the band. This one closes AGC of my RX so I have troubles to watch Visual-CW. Some strong carrier apears around 137.1 kHz, but not all day long. Thanks to snowy wx I cannot go to the cottage to be QRV, but I prepare QRPP (10 or 20 watts) to transmit from my city QTH ( I want to have another country - OK, hi). All the best in the last year of the Millennium 73, Petr, OK1FIG ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Melia To: rsgb_lf_group Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 2:35 AM Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots from GB7DXM ++++ CFH?? > Hi all, whilst I was retrieving this file from the Cluster tonight, a stange > noise came up on 136 and I didn't twig immediately then I saw a wide band > down the middle of the waterfall display centred on 137.0kHz . It sounds > like it could be Fax, but it is quite strong here, and I think it is too > strong to be CFH (only about 3db weaker than the Greek RTTY), although CFH > has been known to use 137.0 for fax when its usual transmitter ( around > 122kHz) is down. I have mailed a query to Jon. My suspicion is that this is > a European station that has annexed the old CFH frequency (or maybe its only > a regional allocation). If so we could have a problem in future as the noise > sidebands spread at least a 200Hz either side. If it is CFH, and the station > was due for a new transmitter about now, then I have made a more spectacular > improvement to my rx set-up than I imagined. We will see if it disappears at > dawn. > > Last evening the 2nd Jan at about 2210z I was working at another task when a > morse transmission came up on the speaker in the 2.5kHz filter. Its stregth > was such that I cast half an ear to it expecting it to be a G station only > to hear CQ de SM6PXJ ! Christer tried for 20 minutes with no takers, I was > most surprised ....he must have worked you all already! That confirms the > replacement aerial is still working well Christer. > > Note a new OK call in the lists below, one of Petr's compatriots has > appeared to ease the load a little, whilst Petr gets some practice in > spotting stateside calls! > > Cluster spots for the festive period from GB7DXM > 136.5 DK7KO 3-Jan-2000 2036Z Peter / JO31 > > 136.8 OK1AIK 2-Jan-2000 1402Z welcome on L.F. dr om > > 136.5 DK8KW 31-Dec-1999 1515Z > > 136.6 SM6PXJ 29-Dec-1999 2137Z calling CQ on CW > > 136.0 AA1AA 29-Dec-1999 0733Z sri, this is test only > > 136.6 DL3FDO 19-Dec-1999 1026Z 519 cq > > 136.9 DJ1RL 19-Dec-1999 1022Z 419 cq in jn48wl > > 136.8 MM0ALM 17-Dec-1999 2127Z vy strong CQ CQ > 137.0 SM6PXJ 17-Dec-1999 2114Z QSO with PA0BWl > > 137.0 G3KEV 17-Dec-1999 1938Z CQ CQ > > G3NYK de GB7DXM 4-Jan 0012Z > > > Hope you all enjoyed the festivities, the cluster spots have been a bit > sparse recently so I did not bother posting them. The 1800 area is now > totally useless for LF spots due to internet imported Stateside top-band > chat. > > Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB > Alan.Melia@btinternet.com > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3363 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2000 11:26:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Jan 2000 11:26:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125Roq-0004OI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2000 11:08:04 +0000 Received: from mta00.talk21.com ([62.172.192.40] helo=t21mta00-app.talk21.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125Ron-0004OD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2000 11:08:02 +0000 Received: from dave ([213.1.39.100]) by t21mta00-app.talk21.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <20000104110627.ZQZW15057.t21mta00-app.talk21.com@dave> for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:06:27 +0000 Message-ID: <002c01bf56a3$f0e8a660$642701d5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: CFH Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 09:44:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Following the reports from Alan I can confirm CFH in Halifax, Nova Scotia, was on this morning on 137.0 RTTY. I did not hear it last night when I checked before going to bed, but I see Alan was up a little later than me! It is definitely CFH and not from Europe. The signal is exactly the same as last winter. At 0700 it was 10dB over s9 and stayed like that till 0800. It then started to fade a little, and between 0845 and 0900 went from s9 down to the noise and disappeared. Perhaps Jon can confirm that it was switched on yesterday. The enormous signals (no increase on last year) are, as I have said before, not necessarily a good sign that an amateur QSO to the USA is possible. CFH uses high power to an antenna few amateurs could contemplate, with an efficiency believed to be up to 80%. Because CFH was on, my QSO this morning with Steve GW4ALG was on 136.2. Activity in the early morning (0600-0800) still seems very low, and I would have thought there would have been more activity at this time during the festive season, but alas no. Both myself and Steve would like to encourage more activity at this time, usually before the tellies get turned on. Cheers Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4045 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2000 11:29:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Jan 2000 11:29:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125S1Y-0004Te-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2000 11:21:12 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125S1X-0004TZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2000 11:21:11 +0000 Received: from [213.1.146.223] (helo=default) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 125S1T-0001jC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:21:08 +0000 Message-ID: <000e01bf56a5$6a829ac0$df9201d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Latest report 137.0kHz signal Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:18:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I was unable to log s-meter readings of the 137kHz signal overnight but I have a trace from a long term log using FFTDSP4. The signal seems fairly steady and consistent up to about 0800z this morning. There is a noticable reduction in strength at 0835z, and by 0853z its noise sidebands had ceased to swamp a 100nV calibration signal injected at 136.780kHz. The signal faded completely at 0858z to return weakly at 0902z. It faded out again at 0924 and returned weakly at 0936z it then peaked weakly at about 1011z, was detectable at 1044 and had disappeared by 1058z. For comparison, using Geoclock the end of the dark night and the onset of morning twilight is shown as 0720z, and the main dawn at about 0800z. This kind of profile tends to suggest that the signal is indeed arriving from the west and may well be a fax transmission from CFH in Halifax, Nova Scotia. The increased perceived strength possible being a sum of rx aerial improvements at this end since the middle of the year and a new transmitter installation at CFH. What would be nice now would be to have the promised new software from ON5OO !! Just read this mornings posting before dispatching this....thanks for the confirmation Dave and Bob. Thanks for the comparison on strengths Dave....I have obviously improved my set-up. At least we may be able to monitor propagation conditions for a while. I suspect from what Jon has said it may only be being used whilst the more normal Fax transmitter is out of action. Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20361 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2000 13:43:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Jan 2000 13:43:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125U5H-0005Gv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2000 13:33:11 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125U5F-0005Gq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2000 13:33:10 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA65036 for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 14:33:06 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000104153138.2f4797da@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 15:31:38 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: LF antenna MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Over the last weeks I noticed that Werner, ON6ND, always got a +/- 10dB better report from UK stations. The fact that he is about 70km closer to the UK may take 2dB. From his antenna details I could 'guestimate' that the radiation resistance of his antenna is about 0.05 Ohm while my antenna has about 0.04 Ohm, so that is another dB. And also the antennacurrent at ON6ND exceeds mine with about 30%, that is about 2dB better. But that means that there are still about 5dB 'missing' at my side, so I took advantage of the holiday period to try to improve my LF antenna. G3XDV reported an improvement of his antenna when replacing the isolators, so as a first step I decided to replace the old 'plastic tubes" by real ceramic isolators (about 10cm long). Although this seemed to have solved the arcing problem I had during wet weather it did not improve the antennacurrent or the signalstrength at all. Next I added (against better knowledge) about 45m of blank galavanized iron wire to the radial system. A lot of work since for estetical and safety reasons (traps) only radials that are dug in are approved by the authorities of the house (= XYL). The result was nil, not a single mA more of antennacurrent and stil the same reports. A bit desperate I started my final attempt, again inspired by Mike, G3XDV, who reported an improvement of his antenna by adding some inductance at the top of the vertical section of his antenna. Some calculations showed that 0.6mm Cu-wire spaced 0.6mm would give a good weight / loss ratio, very convenient as I had a 120m roll of 0.6mm stranded Cu-wire with an outer diameter of 1.3mm (isolation). This wire could be used close-would simplifying the manufaturing of the coil. I ended up with about 110 windings on a 5 liter bin (the ones they sell purified water in). Inductance was about 1.25mH. A bit small as the total loadingcoil so far was 2.9mH, but I'd just give it a try. After solving the mechanical problem of fixing the coil at a height of 12m just hanging between wires I retuned the antenna and with 2mH at the base it got the antenna resonant. A test at full power showed a slight decrease of the antennacurrent (from 1.85A to 1.8A) probably caused by the loss in the extra coil. Also, due to the extra weight of the coil, I had a 'sag' in the wires holding up the antenna, reducing the height by about 0.7m. So far not very promising, but as I spent about a full day in manufacturing and mounting the coil I decided to give it a try. DCF39 seemed about a S-point stronger, but that could be just QSB. Also G3AQC who was CQ-ing sounded stronger, but the ear can be very subjective. I called Laurie, being curious about my report. To my pleasure I got a 1 S-point better report than I got so far from him, so it was not just my imagination that despite the lower antennecurrent signals were stronger. The same evening I managed to work Finbar, EI0CF, (got 439 / 539) for the first time after having called him over and over for the last year. The next days reports from several stations (G4GVC, G3YXM, DK8KW) showed an increase of 1 S-point. Based on simple calculations the current distribution should not improve significantly by the 1.25mH 'top inductance' as my antenna already has an extensive capasitive toploading. Would interesting to know what antenna-simulation software tells us (if someone wants to simulate the antenna I will be happy so send him all antenna dimensions). Basicaly a 'top inductance' reduces the voltage on the vertical part of the antenna. Assuming that the losses induced in surrounding objects (ground, houses, trees, etc...) affect mainly the electrical field this could mean that by reducing the voltage on the vertical section also the losses caused by this section are reduced. As my antenna is surrounded by several 100's of trees, some as close as 5m from the antenna, it could be possible that the trees (that are mainly vertical) mostly affect the vertical part of the antenna. This makes sense to me. Any comments ? Next plan is to increase the 'top inductor' to about 2.5 / 3mH, just leaving a small inductance for the day-to-day tuning at the base. But I have to solve some mechanical problems first, with the actual construction I cannot mount a bigger coil at 12m. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13317 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2000 15:47:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Jan 2000 15:47:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125W1d-00063S-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2000 15:37:33 +0000 Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.72]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125W1a-00063K-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2000 15:37:30 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id l.0.b20d3734 (4333) for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:36:46 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <0.b20d3734.25a36d8e@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:36:46 EST Subject: Re: LF: LF antenna To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 70 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 00-01-04 08:40:48 EST, ON7YD writes: << Basicaly a 'top inductance' reduces the voltage on the vertical part of the antenna. Assuming that the losses induced in surrounding objects (ground, houses, trees, etc...) affect mainly the electrical field this could mean that by reducing the voltage on the vertical section also the losses caused by this section are reduced. >> For what it's worth, this does seem consistent with results at my location. Although I probably don't have quite as many trees in the immediate vicinity, I found that for a given antenna current, my radiated signal on 1750 meters was appreciably better after moving some of the inductance above the ground and thereby reducing voltage on the vertical run of the antenna. (It also has the welcome side-effect of less chance of accidental RF burns.) 73, John KD4IDY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18147 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2000 16:59:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Jan 2000 16:59:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125X9s-0006b0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2000 16:50:08 +0000 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.18]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125X9q-0006av-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2000 16:50:06 +0000 Received: from modem-11.bandleader.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.122.139] helo=lvm) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.12 #0) id 125X9o-0002VX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2000 16:50:04 +0000 Message-ID: <000201bf56d3$bc1a6d80$8b7a883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re.QRS Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 16:47:45 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Happy New Year to all. Can anyone tell me wether there has been any slow CW activity over the holiday period.I have kept watch on 137.6 to 137.8 but nothing seen since 27/12/99 when I saw GoMRF and G3CCF.However there as a strange event  when the weak signal on137.67 suddenly increased power and then transmitted freq shift data at slow speed for several hours,switching between power levels as well as shifting freq by 10hz decreasing to 1hz.It then reverted its normal low power! Did anyone see this ? it certainly clobbered the band whilst at high power.73s Laurie. 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18775 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2000 18:51:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Jan 2000 18:51:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125YyS-0007Mb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2000 18:46:28 +0000 Received: from as-img-6.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.151] helo=spamgaaf.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125YyR-0007MW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2000 18:46:27 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaaf.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id NAA16714 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 13:46:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 13:45:46 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: LF antenna To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200001041346_MC2-934E-11C5@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Rik (and all the others) >Any comments ?< your findings are supporting the effect of Peter's (DF3LP) birchtree-antenna, who also has a big top load and is a record holder of all the the DL "firsts" :-( (despite the DL-GD-one ;-) Vy 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) http://www.qru.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21932 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2000 21:55:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Jan 2000 21:55:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125bnt-0008VF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2000 21:47:45 +0000 Received: from neodymium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.83]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125bns-0008VA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2000 21:47:44 +0000 Received: from [213.1.133.198] (helo=default) by neodymium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 125bnt-0007mX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 21:47:45 +0000 Message-ID: <003101bf56fc$e1dbf7e0$f58d01d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: The 137.0 signal ??? more Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 21:43:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, the mystery grows deeper...I enclose a copy of an e-mail from Jon... -------------------------------------------------- Well, I can confirm that this is *not* CFH. Our transmitter is still powered off. I had to call the site as all I have here is again wideband noise. It is drizzling and when you walk by the high-voltage transmission lines, you can actually hear the water accumulated on the insulators fizzing off. I can't wait to move out to the countryside! ................................ Best wishes, Jon - VE1FTL ------------------------------------------------------ Mmmm interesting.... we know from some other comments that there are other stations on that frequency....but to my remembrance they were located on the West Coast, San Diego way I think!! The signal is already visible on my display (2130z) but I forgot to activate a scroll back so I can't look to see when it appeared first. I was too busy watching 'Horizon' . The modulation is certainly not what we are used to seeing from CFH. It is either a more complex data mode or maybe Fax. I have a display of a band of 'noise dots' about 60Hz wide at its present weaker strength. Not a bit like RTTY which gives two distict lines for the mark and space freqs. Any other ideas?? Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4261 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2000 00:50:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Jan 2000 00:50:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125eQn-00017T-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 00:36:05 +0000 Received: from tk1.ihug.co.nz ([203.29.160.13] helo=smtp1.ihug.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125eQl-00017O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 00:36:04 +0000 Received: from test (p61-max4.chc.ihug.co.nz [207.214.13.188]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id NAA27673 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 13:35:43 +1300 Message-ID: <02c201bf5715$4065b400$0200a8c0@test> From: "Dave Brown" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <003101bf56fc$e1dbf7e0$f58d01d5@default> Subject: LF: Re: The 137.0 signal ??? more Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 13:29:10 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Melia To: rsgb_lf_group Sent: Wednesday, 5 January 2000 10:43 AM Subject: LF: The 137.0 signal ??? more Gidday from ZL. Only other likely looking stateside station I can find on 137.000 exact (and based on 3/4 yr old data) is WSC as below. 137.000 TUCKERTON NJ WSC 39N3800 074W1800 Anyone know if this is still up and running or is it a dead 'un too? Rated pwr is much the same as CFH according to my data. 73 Dave ZL3FJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24626 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2000 06:36:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Jan 2000 06:36:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125jwk-0003CS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 06:29:26 +0000 Received: from mta01.talk21.com ([62.172.192.171] helo=t21mta01-app.talk21.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125jwj-0003CK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 06:29:25 +0000 Received: from dave ([213.1.40.94]) by t21mta01-app.talk21.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <20000105063144.FEDY1955.t21mta01-app.talk21.com@dave> for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 06:31:44 +0000 Message-ID: <000001bf5746$30b5a0c0$5e2801d5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000e01bf56a5$6a829ac0$df9201d5@default> Subject: LF: Re: Latest report 137.0kHz signal Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:27:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Just to comment that the CFH transmission on 137.0 has been transmitting RTTY or similar data traffic (its normal mode) and NOT fax. Fax is very characteristic and can be easily recognized by 1-2Hz timing sync bips. Although CFH can apparantly use fax as a standby to replace another fax transmitter, and it did do so for a short period last winter, this was not the case last night. 73s Dave dsergeant@iee.org http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1844 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2000 07:20:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Jan 2000 07:20:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125kbI-0003OV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 07:11:20 +0000 Received: from ds-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.134] helo=spdmgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125kbG-0003OQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 07:11:19 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id CAA07787 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 02:11:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 02:11:05 -0500 From: "Holger 'Geri', DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: The 137.0 signal ??? more To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200001050211_MC2-9363-F36E@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Lowfers, I had the opportunity to listen to the mystery signal on 137 kHz this morning for a couple of minutes. As already stated here by Dave, it is definetely not a fax signal. It seems to be a kind of multiplexed data signal. There is no real carrier, only an accumulation of data points centered on 136.990 kHz, according to my measurements and about +/- 30 Hz wide, as already observed by Alan. The signal strength here this morning around 05.00 UTC was -97 dBu (compared to DCF39 -23 dBu), which makes it even somewhat stronger than CFH was last year. Lets see what we find out ... Vy 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) http://www.qru.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6910 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2000 08:56:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Jan 2000 08:56:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125m7J-0003yF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 08:48:29 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125m7I-0003yA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 08:48:29 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA13094 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 09:48:27 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000105104656.2eefebca@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 10:46:56 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re.QRS In-reply-to: <000201bf56d3$bc1a6d80$8b7a883e@lvm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Very little slow CW activity noted during the holiday period. I called CQ in DFCW once in a while and I saw G3LDO few times Cq-ing in QRSS mode, that's all. 73, Rik At 16:47 4/01/00 -0000, you wrote: >Happy New Year to all. Can anyone tell me wether there has been any slow CW activity over the holiday period.I have kept watch on 137.6 to 137.8 but nothing seen since 27/12/99 when I saw GoMRF and G3CCF.However there as a strange event when the weak signal on137.67 suddenly increased power and then transmitted freq shift data at slow speed for several hours,switching between power levels as well as shifting freq by 10hz decreasing to 1hz.It then reverted its normal low power! Did anyone see this ? it certainly clobbered the band whilst at high power.73s Laurie. > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\ATTACH\LFRe.htm" > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23125 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2000 09:04:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Jan 2000 09:04:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125mGS-0003zZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 08:57:56 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125mGR-0003zU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 08:57:55 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA133338 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 09:57:53 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000105105623.2c7f712a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 10:56:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: The 137.0 signal ??? more In-reply-to: <003101bf56fc$e1dbf7e0$f58d01d5@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I monitored the 137kHz 'mistery signal' last night : 1. Although it sounds RTTY-like I cannot see any mark /space lines with GRAM 2. It came out of the noise arround 21.30UT and built up (with some QSB periods) until 23.00UT (when I went to bed). I left the ON5OO software running all night (from 22UT until 08UT) the signal was still there (and loud) at that time. I will have a look at the data from the ON5OO software tonight. At 21:43 4/01/00 -0000, you wrote: > Hi all, the mystery grows deeper...I enclose a copy of an e-mail from >Jon... >-------------------------------------------------- >Well, I can confirm that this is *not* CFH. Our transmitter is >still powered off. I had to call the site as all I have here is again >wideband noise. It is drizzling and when you walk by the high-voltage >transmission lines, you can actually hear the water accumulated on the >insulators fizzing off. I can't wait to move out to the countryside! >................................ > >Best wishes, Jon - VE1FTL >------------------------------------------------------ >Mmmm interesting.... we know from some other comments that there are other >stations on that frequency....but to my remembrance they were located on the >West Coast, San Diego way I think!! >The signal is already visible on my display (2130z) but I forgot to activate >a scroll back so I can't look to see when it appeared first. I was too busy >watching 'Horizon' . The modulation is certainly not what we are used to >seeing from CFH. It is either a more complex data mode or maybe Fax. I have >a display of a band of 'noise dots' about 60Hz wide at its present weaker >strength. Not a bit like RTTY which gives two distict lines for the mark and >space freqs. >Any other ideas?? >Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB >Alan.Melia@btinternet.com > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2297 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2000 15:20:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Jan 2000 15:20:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125s5b-0006Kg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 15:11:07 +0000 Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.157]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125s5Z-0006Kb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 15:11:05 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-127-169.bellatlantic.net [151.200.127.169]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA18373; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 10:10:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <38735F0F.FB3DCD76@bellatlantic.net> Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 10:11:12 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: [Fwd: [Lf] 137,0 kHz correction] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: FYI Andre' N4ICK ****************** David L. Wilson wrote: > My earlier post has an error. The baud rate from CFH on this frequency > is now 100 Bd instead of 75 Bd (which was used in the past). However, > the shift remains at 85 Hz as it was before and is often an identifying > feature of Canadian military LF. > > -- > David L. Wilson INTERNET: dwilson@paprika.mwc.edu > Phone: (540)898-1084 (H) Amateur callsign: AC4IU G.S.: FM18fg > > _______________________________________________ > lf mailing list > lf@amrad.org > http://www.amrad.org/mailman/listinfo/lf From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1811 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2000 16:13:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Jan 2000 16:13:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125stM-0006ip-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 16:02:32 +0000 Received: from ulexite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125stK-0006ik-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 16:02:30 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust176.tnt8.rtm1.nl.uu.net [212.153.216.176]) by ulexite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 9D6EBFAF1C for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 15:02:11 -0100 (GMT) Message-ID: <000d01bf5796$b3758e80$b0d899d4@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Signals measured Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 17:03:55 +0100 Organization: Freeler MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
A Happy New Year to All from PA0SE!
 
It is my intention to measure signals received here as I did twice before.
 
I will listen and measure during the morning and perhaps part of the afternoon coming Saterday 8 and Sunday 9 of January.
 
I will probably not be on the air myself a lot as the measurements will keep me busy.
 
The noise level here is about S4/5 so only signals exceeding that will be recorded.
 
The report will appear on the reflector.
 
Perhaps you want to perform some tests with different antennas or so. If so please inform me by e-mail in advance so I can measure your signal before and after the change. 
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
 
JO22GD
 
D.W. Rollema
V.d. Marckstraat 5
2352 RA Leiderdorp
The Netherlands 
Tel. +31 71 589 27 34
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23099 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2000 16:14:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Jan 2000 16:14:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125swB-0006jB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 16:05:27 +0000 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.18]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125sw9-0006j6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 16:05:26 +0000 Received: from modem-124.drummer.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.99.124] helo=lvm) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.12 #0) id 125sw7-0002AN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 16:05:23 +0000 Message-ID: <000201bf5796$a8f4f540$7c63883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Alan Melia Re QRS. Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:03:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Tks Alan for your info.I think I may have been listening with the Rx incorrectly tuned(BFO on the wrong side)but I have corrected this now so hope to see some sigs.The signal that went Digital is one that I see all the time on 137.679 at about S  2/3.However when it went digital the sig strength on one freq was S9+20!!! As you might imagine it completely messed up the 137.6 to 137.8 part of the band.I hope that this was an isolated case or as least infrequent .
Re AMRAD on 136.750 and your request,I have had a look and find 18 very strong lines between136.705 and 136.785.So far as measuring their frequencies there are some difficulties.I would like to drop you a line with my findings(print out etc) also settings of the equipment here so that you can comment and perhaps make suggestions.I have a 1994 call book which places you at Martlesham Heath,is this correct?
I will be very pleased to assist and of course very intrested.73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19648 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2000 18:45:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Jan 2000 18:45:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125vL4-0007jl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 18:39:18 +0000 Received: from mb09.swip.net ([193.12.122.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125vL3-0007jg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 18:39:17 +0000 Received: from win95 (d212-151-55-95.swipnet.se [212.151.55.95]) by mb09.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA27469 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:38:14 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <002301bf57ac$90f61120$5f3797d4@win95.swipnet.se> From: "Christer Andersson" To: "RSGB LF group" Subject: LF: 137,0 Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:40:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello All, I believe most of the LF guys have a rotary loop antenna. Couldn't we make some observations on the direction of the unknown signal and then compare the results? Or is the signal too weak? By the way, I have applied for license to transmit between 7-8,5 kHz and today I received a letter from the authorities where they asked me for more information such as the exact location for the transmitter. So it seems rather promising I think. 73 Christer sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24948 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2000 18:55:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Jan 2000 18:55:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125vUp-0007pT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 18:49:23 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125vUo-0007pO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 18:49:22 +0000 Received: from [195.44.214.9] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125vUl-00075q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 18:49:20 +0000 Message-ID: <38740255.E470F291@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 18:47:49 -0800 From: "g3kev" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: The 137.0 signal ??? more References: <3.0.1.16.20000105105623.2c7f712a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All. The signal on 137 khz. I have heard this signal before. Yesterday it was about S5 about 1500/1700 utc and then it was about S8 during the evening 1900/2200utc. It could be spurious from another signal on lf. Those with df loops might be able to give, at least a direction. The commercial operators could locate it precisely. A simple system like SSL would be able to give a distance and location. Does anyone have this facility or know of one who has. At this frequency a couple of simple loop antennas or more dispersed around europe could give a fairly accurate fix. No speculation needed. Rik Strobbe wrote: > I monitored the 137kHz 'mistery signal' last night : > 1. Although it sounds RTTY-like I cannot see any mark /space lines with GRAM > 2. It came out of the noise arround 21.30UT and built up (with some QSB > periods) until 23.00UT (when I went to bed). I left the ON5OO software > running all night (from 22UT until 08UT) the signal was still there (and > loud) at that time. > I will have a look at the data from the ON5OO software tonight. > > At 21:43 4/01/00 -0000, you wrote: > > Hi all, the mystery grows deeper...I enclose a copy of an e-mail from > >Jon... > >-------------------------------------------------- > >Well, I can confirm that this is *not* CFH. Our transmitter is > >still powered off. I had to call the site as all I have here is again > >wideband noise. It is drizzling and when you walk by the high-voltage > >transmission lines, you can actually hear the water accumulated on the > >insulators fizzing off. I can't wait to move out to the countryside! > >................................ > > > >Best wishes, Jon - VE1FTL > >------------------------------------------------------ > >Mmmm interesting.... we know from some other comments that there are other > >stations on that frequency....but to my remembrance they were located on the > >West Coast, San Diego way I think!! > >The signal is already visible on my display (2130z) but I forgot to activate > >a scroll back so I can't look to see when it appeared first. I was too busy > >watching 'Horizon' . The modulation is certainly not what we are used to > >seeing from CFH. It is either a more complex data mode or maybe Fax. I have > >a display of a band of 'noise dots' about 60Hz wide at its present weaker > >strength. Not a bit like RTTY which gives two distict lines for the mark and > >space freqs. > >Any other ideas?? > >Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB > >Alan.Melia@btinternet.com > > > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28447 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2000 19:11:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Jan 2000 19:11:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125viX-0007x4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 19:03:33 +0000 Received: from m11.boston.juno.com ([205.231.100.194]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125viW-0007wz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 19:03:32 +0000 Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EVLEZZB8; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 14:02:44 EST X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:01:38 -0500 Subject: Re: LF: 137,0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <20000105.140138.-73657.1.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-6,8-13 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Bob RIESE" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Last night I nulled the signal and from my location in Pensylvania [39/56..76/40] it lines up on a 150 / 330 line . I will recheck as I have improved my small loop however at 1830 GMT I am not hearing it and at the same time yesterday was in there Bob K3DJC On Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:40:51 +0100 "Christer Andersson" writes: >Hello All, > >I believe most of the LF guys have a rotary loop antenna. Couldn't we >make some observations on the direction of the unknown signal and then >compare the results? Or is the signal too weak? > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26471 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2000 19:14:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Jan 2000 19:14:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125vl3-0007xQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 19:06:09 +0000 Received: from praseodumium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125vl3-0007xK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 19:06:09 +0000 Received: from [213.1.140.12] (helo=default) by praseodumium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 125vkq-0004Wn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:05:57 +0000 Message-ID: <001d01bf57af$84024da0$549501d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: latest from Jon ..it WAS CFH after all. Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 18:55:56 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Latest from Jon ....good for a larf --------------------------------------------------- Hello Alan Well, when I got to work this morning, I found out that it was indeed our 137 kHz transmitter generating all that rubish on the air. Apparently, the gentleman I spoke with on the phone yesterday had just been promoted to the level of his undisputed incompetence. Thanks for the clue. Score One for the Hams! We will be working on the beast for a while... Thanks es 73, Jon - VE1FTL ------------------------------------------------------ I think I should say 'No Comment' Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29532 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2000 22:01:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Jan 2000 22:01:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125yLF-0000WJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 21:51:41 +0000 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl ([195.121.6.61]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 125yLD-0000WE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 21:51:40 +0000 Received: from nl9222tvtref.nl ([195.121.222.14]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAB1195 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 22:51:32 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: 137,0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 22:49:05 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <7735BD19140A.AAB1195@smtp01.wxs.nl> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Christer. I am new to this group, and listening/watching 73Khz and 137Khz (CW, C-Bpsk) for 5 days now.. I received your signal thuesday night 21:15z on 136.87 (have no more digits) and rst 588. Seen CQ 3 times As i mentioned, i am new and have only heard G, DK, OH, ON, SM, PA sofar in my first week. Qth is Mijdrecht, approx in JO22KI. (20km south of Amsterdam) More later, like my setup or more reports. 73 de Ko, NL9222. (WANTED: PRECISE grid square info for this qth) ---------- From: Christer Andersson To: RSGB LF group Subject: LF: 137,0 Date: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 7:40 PM Hello All, I believe most of the LF guys have a rotary loop antenna. Couldn't we make some observations on the direction of the unknown signal and then compare the results? Or is the signal too weak? By the way, I have applied for license to transmit between 7-8,5 kHz and today I received a letter from the authorities where they asked me for more information such as the exact location for the transmitter. So it seems rather promising I think. 73 Christer sm6pxj ---------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4529 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2000 12:14:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Jan 2000 12:14:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126BbT-0005gl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 12:01:19 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126BbR-0005gd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 12:01:18 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA148248 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:01:05 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000106135933.3f9fa094@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 13:59:33 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: New Country ? In-reply-to: <000201bf55b2$dc002580$0d2f01d5@dave> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I just checked TF1IT on the Buckmaster callbook and in the OH2AQ DX-cluster : That call is unknown in the callbook (and plenty of other TF's are in it) and has not been reported on the DX-cluster the last 2 years. So I think that it was just someone with strange ideas about making fun. 73, Rik ON7YD >>From Dave G3YMC > >I also heard TF1IT at several times on New Year's Day. He was on (or close to) >the Ropex frequency but as far as I know did not work anybody. Ron called him >a few times later in the day when I did not hear him, and I also heard John GVC >trying to call him, apparantly with no success. > >As TF1IT was a solid 579 here (nearly as strong as Ron) I am a little >suspicious about whether he was genuine. If he is real, perhaps he needs to >work on his receiver. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8281 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2000 12:18:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Jan 2000 12:18:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126BiW-0005hl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 12:08:36 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126BiV-0005hg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 12:08:35 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA62618 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:08:32 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000106140700.4087fede@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 14:07:00 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: recording 137kHz signal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have recorded the 137kHz signal from 4 jan 22:20UT to 5 jan 08:00UT with the ON5OO software. A lot of data (1 recording per second) over 800kB unzipped but it is a 97kB ZIP-file. The recordings show some very strong peaks before midnight en some deep dips in the early morning. Whoever is interested in the recording can request the ZIP-file by e-mail. (please direct to me - not via the reflector) 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11227 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2000 15:42:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Jan 2000 15:42:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126Etm-00070b-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 15:32:26 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126Etl-00070W-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 15:32:25 +0000 Received: from [195.44.215.151] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126Etj-0004BL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 15:32:23 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <387525E2.B33CF733@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 15:31:46 -0800 From: "g3kev" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: CFH 137 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Now that the mystery signal on 137 khz has been confirmed as CFH. It was audible with me all day at S5 and during the early evening S8. I have heard it a number of times in the past. I wonder what rf power and antennas are in use. Propogation across the atlantic looks good for a possible radio amateur two way on 137 khz for stations with good antennas and the permitted 1W ERP. 73 Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27260 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2000 15:42:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Jan 2000 15:42:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126EuK-00070o-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 15:33:00 +0000 Received: from mps1.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.16.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126EuJ-00070j-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 15:32:59 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from elec-eng.leeds.ac.uk (elec-eng.leeds.ac.uk [129.11.176.15]) by mps1.leeds.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24586 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:32:53 GMT Received: from ELEC-ENG/SpoolDir by elec-eng.leeds.ac.uk (Mercury 1.43); 6 Jan 100 15:43:09 GMT Received: from SpoolDir by ELEC-ENG (Mercury 1.43); 6 Jan 100 15:43:07 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "C.TRAYNER" Organization: The University of Leeds To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:43:07 GMT Subject: Re: LF: re LF DX records X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.22) Message-ID: <74FCDA8514E@elec-eng.leeds.ac.uk> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Alan Melia writes: > 73 and Many happy new years in the new Century!! I think we've got about 300 days to go yet ... (The 20th century began on 1st Jan 1901, so we've only just started on the last year of the century.) Happy New Year anyway, and may your aerials grow ever longer ... 73, Chris G4OKW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20123 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2000 18:04:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Jan 2000 18:04:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126HAO-0007xC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 17:57:44 +0000 Received: from front5m.grolier.fr ([195.36.216.55]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126HAL-0007x7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 17:57:42 +0000 Received: from club-internet.fr (ppp-44-33-219.wmar.club-internet.fr [213.44.33.219]) by front5m.grolier.fr (8.9.3/No_Relay+No_Spam_MGC990224) with ESMTP id SAA05149 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 18:57:38 +0100 (MET) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 21:06:24 +0100 From: "M & S" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [fr] (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: fr,fr,es-ES MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: CFH 137 References: <387525E2.B33CF733@netscapeonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, It should be possible, but maybe results should be better at the low point of the solar cycle. Yes, indeed, results on LF are better than ever when the solar cycle is at its minimum activity; performance of the station here proves that... 73, Mark, F6JSZ P.S. HNY Y2K to all! g3kev a *crit : > > Now that the mystery signal on 137 khz has been confirmed as CFH. It was > audible with me all day at S5 and during the early evening S8. I have > heard it a number of times in the past. I wonder what rf power and > antennas are in use. Propogation across the atlantic looks good for a > possible radio amateur two way on 137 khz for stations with good > antennas and the permitted 1W ERP. > 73 Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19515 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2000 20:45:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Jan 2000 20:45:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126Jh6-0000QA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 20:39:40 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126Jh3-0000Q5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 20:39:38 +0000 Received: from [195.44.215.130] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126Jh1-0005Rc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 20:39:35 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <38756DD1.361BACCE@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 20:38:41 -0800 From: "g3kev" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: re cfh 137 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Not sure what sun cycle you are at in France. Your message today was dated 27 August 1956 at 21:06:24. Time warp or computer BUG. Solar cycle peak/trough every 11.25 years would possible have a less dramatic effect on the D layer and LF propogation than the F1/F2 and E layers. 73 Malcolm/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2267 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2000 22:00:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Jan 2000 22:00:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126Kqx-0000uB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 21:53:55 +0000 Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.40]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126Kqw-0000u1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 21:53:55 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id l.3c.3c696598 (4456) for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 16:53:16 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <3c.3c696598.25a668cb@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 16:53:15 EST Subject: Re: LF: Re: New Country ? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 137 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 1/6/00 1:12:10 GMT Daylight Time, rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be writes: << I just checked TF1IT on the Buckmaster callbook and in the OH2AQ DX-cluster : That call is unknown in the callbook (and plenty of other TF's are in it) and has not been reported on the DX-cluster the last 2 years. So I think that it was just someone with strange ideas about making fun. >> A few years ago the TF prefix was a popular call for pirates. New years day is also a traditional day for this sort of thing. How many times have I heard Tony Handcock's "The Radio Ham" being broadcast on top band on the 1/Jan.! Strike TF from the Countries active list chaps. 73 David From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13847 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2000 08:16:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Jan 2000 08:16:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126UIQ-0004U5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 07:58:54 +0000 Received: from hermes.iol.cz ([194.228.2.36]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126UIP-0004U0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 07:58:53 +0000 Received: from dell1.GMC.NET ([194.228.133.18]) by hermes.iol.cz (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 631-64078U55000L55000S0V35) with ESMTP id cz for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 08:58:02 +0100 Received: from p (P.MALY [192.168.1.35]) by dell1.GMC.NET with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id Z7XXNH86; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 09:01:44 +0100 Message-ID: <002301bf58e5$706fe680$2301a8c0@maly.gmc.net> From: "SupportCZ" To: "136 group" Subject: LF: QSL cards posted Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 09:01:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Lowfers This morning I posted special L.F. QSL cards for: I5TGC, DK1IS, DJ7RD, PA0BWL, DJ1ZB, PA2NJN, G4GVC, G3YXM (2x) I could not post a card to G3KEV for a missing address on his card. 73! Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9734 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2000 08:56:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Jan 2000 08:56:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126V5U-0004lW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 08:49:36 +0000 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126V5T-0004lR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 08:49:36 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 126V5N-00084x-0K; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 08:49:30 +0000 Message-ID: <3875A896.664A4720@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 08:49:27 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Group" , "Steve Baugh" <100042.134@compuserve.com> Subject: LF: Update from GW4ALG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The recent high winds and heavy rain (plus visits to/from friends & family over the holiday period) resulted in low activity from GW4ALG over the past month. So I have particularly enjoyed my QSOs this week with G3YMC; ON7YD; G8PX; and G4GVC. (The red sky this morning probably means more rain today . . . .) In an earlier posting, I reported my success with a noise canceller, based on a design by VK5BR. At that time, I mentioned how I intended to build a pair of automatically switched cancellers so that the correct phase/amplitude settings could be set for each of my two receive antennas. I have now completed this particular project and am delighted with the results. The degree of attenuation of local electrical noise has to be heard to be believed - wonderful! Details of the switched canceller can be found at: http://www.alg.demon.co.uk/radio/136/noise_can.htm My next project will be construction of the PA0LQ audio CW filter (op-amp version), which had been put on hold due to the urgent need to solve the electrical noise problem. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18898 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2000 09:49:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Jan 2000 09:49:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126Vua-00054U-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 09:42:24 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126VuY-00054P-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 09:42:22 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA140570 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:42:20 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000107114046.223febba@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 11:40:46 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: new station MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Last night I worked DJ9IE, first time I heard him. His name is Uli, located in Unna (JO31RH). He is running only 10W but the antenna sounds great : a 250m long wire at 15m hight. His signal was 539 to 549 with a lot of QSB (about 5dB - distance between us is only 200km). Last weeks I managed to work some other new ones (for me) : DL3FDO, G6RO, G8RW and EI0CF (for DXCC nr. 15). DJ6FU was heard ofter with good signals (up to 569) and called but not worked (yet). BTW : I'm still missing GI and OZ for my 136kHz DXCC award (.... ..), any chances on making a sked ? 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2726 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2000 11:29:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Jan 2000 11:29:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126XVd-0005it-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 11:24:45 +0000 Received: from endjinn.austria.eu.net ([193.81.13.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126XVc-0005io-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 11:24:44 +0000 Received: from qsl.net (dialup246.ap01-ried.at.eu.net [193.154.148.246]) by endjinn.Austria.EU.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11146 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 12:24:39 +0100 (MET) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3875CCD9.48D6280E@qsl.net> Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 12:24:09 +0100 From: "Heinz Schnait" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: new station: OE on the air! References: <3.0.1.16.20000107114046.223febba@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LF-Group, Our transmitter is back in service. OE5ODL will be on the air for the coming weekend. He just has worked DL1SAN and got a 559 report. 73 Heinz, OE5EEP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11557 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2000 11:41:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Jan 2000 11:41:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126Xgn-0005ob-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 11:36:17 +0000 Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126Xgl-0005oT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 11:36:16 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 126XeM-0007ad-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 11:33:46 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <29188.200001071140@gemini> From: "James Moritz" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 11:40:48 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: TF1IT/73kHz etc X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Happy new year and millenium to all - hope it brings you happiness and good fortune. I too heard an "Icelandic" station on LF - on 3rd of Jan at 1421 utc, calling CQ - but this time the call was TF1IS. The CQ calls stopped as soon as I replied. It was certainly strong enough to be a UK station. On a different note, I have a NOV for 73kHz operation, but can't actually put out a signal on the band at the moment due to lack of a suitable antenna loading coil. Until I finish struggling with my computer and it's sound card, I also won't have any QRSS capability, but if I cobble together a loading coil I could get on the band with manual CW fairly quickly. If any other fairly local stations who are active on 73kHz would be interested in arranging a sked, I will press ahead and do this - please let me know. I was interested in the AMRAD beacon WA2TXF/12 and it's 1600ft "earth bipole" antenna - what is the benefit of grounding both ends of the antenna, rather than tuning it up as a 1/4 wave, as OH1TN seems to be doing rather successfully? Cheers, Jim 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 534 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2000 14:28:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Jan 2000 14:28:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126aAi-0006th-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 14:15:20 +0000 Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.157]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126aAg-0006tc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 14:15:18 +0000 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-120-25.bellatlantic.net [151.200.120.25]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA00628; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 09:15:04 -0500 (EST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3875F52A.3AF2D67@bellatlantic.net> Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 09:16:10 -0500 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "lf-amrad" Subject: LF: AMRAD Antenna ? References: <29188.200001071140@gemini> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The purpose of grounding both ends was to try and duplicate some of the "Earth Bipole" experiments conducted earlier (and good results obtained) by John Taylor G0AKN. Both ends grounded means that there is no huge voltage gradient on the line, something to watch for as we have hung the line from one tree to another, through a forest. We have enough space at that location to try all sorts of other antenna configurations; this is just the first one we have tried, and since we were heard (loud and clear) in London Ontario, that is probably proof that whatever happens in that antenna is pretty good :-) (see for instance http://www.armrad.org/projects/lf ) 73 Andre' N4ICK ***************************** James Moritz wrote: > I was interested in the AMRAD beacon WA2TXF/12 and it's 1600ft > "earth bipole" antenna - what is the benefit of grounding both ends > of the antenna, rather than tuning it up as a 1/4 wave, as OH1TN > seems to be doing rather successfully? From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4026 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2000 19:14:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Jan 2000 19:14:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126egI-0000HK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 19:04:14 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126egH-0000HF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 19:04:13 +0000 Received: from as31-s15-146-234.cwci.net ([195.44.146.234] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126egB-0003F0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 19:04:07 +0000 Message-ID: <3876A8F5.264D6F5F@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 19:03:17 -0800 From: "g3kev" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: QSL cards posted References: <002301bf58e5$706fe680$2301a8c0@maly.gmc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Petr. Address for G3KEV Tyrone House 473 Scalby Rd Scarborough YO12 6UA England Glad u got my card 73 de Mal/G3KEV SupportCZ wrote: > Hello Lowfers > This morning I posted special L.F. QSL cards for: > I5TGC, DK1IS, DJ7RD, PA0BWL, DJ1ZB, PA2NJN, G4GVC, G3YXM (2x) > I could not post a card to G3KEV for a missing address on his card. > > 73! Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2000 20:38:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Jan 2000 20:38:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126fku-0000l1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 20:13:04 +0000 Received: from praseodumium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126fkt-0000kw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 20:13:03 +0000 Received: from [213.1.134.87] (helo=default) by praseodumium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 126fks-0002PF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 20:13:02 +0000 Message-ID: <002001bf594b$25102ea0$f1a701d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: CFH ......more from Jon Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 20:08:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All I have just had an e-mail from Jon VE1FTL timed 4:45pm Fri 7th. ------------------------------------ Well, we found the problem today. A switching regulator in the exciter's DC power supply was oscillating and causing many, many spurs. The transmitter is back in service now. ---------- I recounted some of the signal strengths quoted and the fact that Mal could hear it all day............. ---------- Yes, and am really impressed by the range. Often our end-users (the ships) will complain that they just can't hear the signal. Now I can tell them to listen more carefully (HI). ----------------------- I dont know whether the 'problem' indicated that the mod we were seeing was a fault condition or whether the problem occured during service and caused it to be taken off. Still it looks like it should be back this evening. Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17571 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2000 20:48:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Jan 2000 20:48:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126fmh-0000lE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 20:14:55 +0000 Received: from cask.force9.net ([195.166.128.29]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126fmg-0000l9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 20:14:54 +0000 Received: (qmail 27376 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2000 20:14:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO main) (212.159.71.58) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2000 20:14:52 -0000 Message-ID: <00dc01bf594c$7f1a9ba0$0600a8c0@main> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <29188.200001071140@gemini> <3875F52A.3AF2D67@bellatlantic.net> Subject: LF: Re: AMRAD Antenna ? Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 20:11:53 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: That Amrad antenna... > Both ends grounded means that there is no huge voltage gradient on the > line, something to watch for as we have hung the line from one tree to > another, through a forest. Surely the Voltage gradient is just the same but the other way round? High current point at the earthed end and high Voltage point at the TX site as it is about a quarter wave.... The "earthed at the far end" idea has been used with topband antennas for years in order to get the current into the vertical drop. 73 Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 714 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2000 21:15:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Jan 2000 21:15:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126gZe-00014L-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 21:05:30 +0000 Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126gZd-00014G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2000 21:05:29 +0000 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-120-80.bellatlantic.net [151.200.120.80]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA25785; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 16:05:06 -0500 (EST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3876554B.72D98BF3@bellatlantic.net> Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 16:06:20 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: AMRAD Antenna ? References: <29188.200001071140@gemini> <3875F52A.3AF2D67@bellatlantic.net> <00dc01bf594c$7f1a9ba0$0600a8c0@main> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Wooops, I guess I did not express myself quite clearly enough. The far end of the wire terminates in a field , (and specifically near a pond) visited by many cows. In order to avoid any possible unpleasantness (wire falling on the ground if broken by the wind, etc.), we decided to ground that end. It may well be that the whole thing operates as a loop of sorts, as there is a non-zero resistance between the two grounds (the one at the Tx site, and the one at the pond end) 73 Andre' Dave wrote: > Surely the Voltage gradient is just the same but the other way round? High > current point at the earthed end and high Voltage point at the TX site as it > is about a quarter wave.... > The "earthed at the far end" idea has been used with topband antennas for > years in order to get the current into the vertical drop. > > 73 Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25169 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2000 01:08:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Jan 2000 01:08:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126kEP-0002av-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 00:59:49 +0000 Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126kEO-0002aq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 00:59:48 +0000 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-126-197.bellatlantic.net [151.200.126.197]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA07400; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 19:59:25 -0500 (EST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <38768AEB.4EF73F40@bellatlantic.net> Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 19:55:07 -0500 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ve3pu@rac.ca Cc: "rsgb_lf_group" , "lf-amrad" Subject: LF: CFH Transmitter References: <200001071408.JAA05248@host.ott.igs.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Ken, Thanks for the details of the transmitter. We would appreciate whatever you can learn on the antenna. Andre' N4ICK **************************** Ken Pulfer wrote: > Hi Andre, > I understand that the transmitter power is 250 KW, but that the transmitter is > being (or has just been) upgraded to new equipment which may make it more > efficient.. > No information on the antenna system, but will pass the question on to > someone who may have more. > 73, Ken Pulfer > VE3PU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5970 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2000 03:40:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Jan 2000 03:40:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126maG-0003XU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 03:30:32 +0000 Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126maF-0003X9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 03:30:31 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id l.c8.c8ef2e89 (1813) for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 22:29:57 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 22:29:57 EST Subject: LF: Sound cards. To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 137 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello All. Does anyone have a "fix" for a fault that causes spectrogram (or windows) to crash when it's started up on 5k5 sample rate? It appears to happen irrespectively of the number of FFT points selected. It may be a soundcard problem but I've seen this on a couple of computers now and it's always the most sensitive setting that causes the problem. 73 David G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23878 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2000 07:49:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Jan 2000 07:49:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126qSZ-00056a-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 07:38:51 +0000 Received: from ds-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.136] helo=spdmgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126qSY-00056T-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 07:38:50 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id CAA05441 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 02:38:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 02:38:27 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Sound cards. To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200001080238_MC2-93C2-8117@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello David (and others), I have tried several of the new type soundcards such as the "Soundblaster Life!" but several of those only emulate the 5.5 kHz and the response time was extremely slow. This may be the casue of the crash you observe. They only worked properly hardware based on 11 kHz and up. I now went to a Sondblaster 128 PCI, but I still miss my old and simple Soundblaster AWE 64 (it doesn't work anymore), especially because it also worked in DOS mode (FFT-DSP), I havnt't had success in getting any of the PCI stuff (with DOS emulation) work properly in DOS ... Vy 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11602 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2000 09:14:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Jan 2000 09:14:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126rpJ-0005iL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 09:06:25 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.91]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126rpI-0005iG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 09:06:24 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 126rpF-000P43-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 09:06:22 +0000 Message-ID: <$RGBICAM3vd4EwmE@telemetry.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 09:05:16 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: Re: AMRAD Antenna ? In-reply-to: <3876554B.72D98BF3@bellatlantic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Tom, G3OLB Andre I'm not at all clear how this antenna is matched and fed. I am particularly interested because I currently use an 1100 ft end fed wire which I could conceivably extend to a full quarter wave. Like yours it is suspended from a number of trees but high voltages are not a particular problem because I have it well insulated with some good ceramic insulators (thanks Dick!) There are also cows in my field but they are a well insulated breed. Your 1600 ft antenna is approaching a quarter wavelength long and, as Dave says, opposite ends of a quarter wave antenna will present opposite impedances i.e. if you leave the far end open, the near end will look like a low impedance and conversely if you ground the far end, the near end will be high Z. So I cannot reconcile grounding BOTH ends and being able to resonate it. 73, Tom G3OLB In message <3876554B.72D98BF3@bellatlantic.net>, Andre' Kesteloot writes >Wooops, >I guess I did not express myself quite clearly enough. >The far end of the wire terminates in a field , (and specifically near a pond) >visited by many cows. In order to avoid any possible unpleasantness (wire >falling on the ground if broken by the wind, etc.), we decided to ground that >end. >It may well be that the whole thing operates as a loop of sorts, as there is a >non-zero resistance between the two grounds (the one at the Tx site, and the one >at the pond end) >73 >Andre' > >Dave wrote: > >> Surely the Voltage gradient is just the same but the other way round? High >> current point at the earthed end and high Voltage point at the TX site as it >> is about a quarter wave.... >> The "earthed at the far end" idea has been used with topband antennas for >> years in order to get the current into the vertical drop. >> >> 73 Dave G3YXM. > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9257 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2000 09:44:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Jan 2000 09:44:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126sLP-0005tY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 09:39:35 +0000 Received: from smtp7.xs4all.nl ([194.109.127.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126sLO-0005tT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 09:39:34 +0000 Received: from v3q4v1 (dc2-isdn871.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.151.103]) by smtp7.xs4all.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA21854 for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 10:39:27 +0100 (CET) From: "M. Sanders \(PA3BSH\)" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Sound cards. Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 10:33:24 +0100 Message-ID: <000001bf59bb$691e19c0$67976dc2@v3q4v1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello David, The 5.5k mode workes with my PII-350 and 'SB-live' soundcard but there is a problem with the analysis. The sample+processing time needed for 2048 samples or more exceeds the real time! therefore the computer probably calculates with data from memory (previous calculated samples). The results are instable and look like oscillating or reappearing sounds on screeen that should not have been there. Not unlike the behaviour of ringing filters or IIR digital filters with critical parameters. So there is a limit for the analysis with the method used by R. Horne in Spectogram. You computer apparently does not cope with the amount of calculations needed and crashes. I use 11k /16384 samples/FFT size because it seems to be the most effective mode in Spectogram. Greetings, Michael Sanders, PA3BSH > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]namens > G0MRF@aol.com > Verzonden: zaterdag 8 januari 2000 4:30 > Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Onderwerp: LF: Sound cards. > > > Hello All. > > Does anyone have a "fix" for a fault that causes spectrogram (or > windows) to > crash when it's started up on 5k5 sample rate? > > It appears to happen irrespectively of the number of FFT points > selected. It > may be a soundcard problem but I've seen this on a couple of > computers now > and it's always the most sensitive setting that causes the problem. > > 73 > > > David G0MRF > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23718 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2000 10:49:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Jan 2000 10:49:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126tKy-0006N4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 10:43:12 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126tKx-0006Mz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 10:43:11 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA27616 for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 10:43:09 GMT X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <2000010810151668199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 10:15:16 GMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: Re: LF: Sound cards. Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit > Does anyone have a "fix" for a fault that causes spectrogram (or windows) to > crash when it's started up on 5k5 sample rate? > It appears to happen irrespectively of the number of FFT points selected. It > may be a soundcard problem but I've seen this on a couple of computers now > and it's always the most sensitive setting that causes the problem. I have been irritated by this Gram crashing since I started using it and put it down to 'finger trouble' this end. I had not associated it with the number of FFT points selected. The crash seemed to 'damage' the software because the only fix was to reinstall it. I now run Gram from the floppy disk, which has fixed the problem in my case! Has anyone tried Spectran by I2PHD and IK2CZL? It claims to have overcome some of the problems associated with certain sound cards. This program is still in the Beta stage so there are some limitations, although I find I can see signals sandwiched within the Loran sidebands better but I can't save the .wav files . It can be downloaded from: (thanks Andre'). -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 943 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2000 11:17:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Jan 2000 11:17:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126tmd-0006bN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 11:11:47 +0000 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl ([195.121.6.61]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126tmc-0006bI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 11:11:46 +0000 Received: from nl9222tvtref.nl ([195.121.218.58]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA2E6C for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 12:11:39 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Sound cards. X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 12:07:05 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <7735BE3B466.AAA2E6C@smtp01.wxs.nl> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Geri, I agree as i encountered the same trouble and limitations using the PCI-64 after the SB-16 i used for some years, as there was nothing else for us. New programs and bands came up and all the goodies like Spectran, FFTDsp and SM5BSZ's DSP program would not run at all. I used PCI-64 for mostly sstv, as it was more selective than the SB-16. Got bored after 20 years of sstv. I willsave your time and jump ahead... Started searching for the AWE-64 Gold wich seems the best and found a AWE-64 Value now i am not sure what Value means but i can do everything now, even the older Hellschreiber programs for dos from G3PPT and RITTY wich needs 2 different DMA's for PACTor. Now on LF i watch CW ofcourse and use MRP373 wich runs perfect with the AWE-64V.. The AWE-64 is still available at JDR Microdevices (www.jdr.com) i am thinking 'bout getting a 2nd :-) Well long story, less content but maybe usefull. A good weekend to all. 73's de Ko, NL9222. JO22KF http://leden.tref.nl/~nl9222tv/ http://members.tripod.lycos.nl/NL9222/index.htm ---------- From: 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW To: INTERNET:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Sound cards. Date: Saturday, January 08, 2000 8:38 AM Hello David (and others), I have tried several of the new type soundcards such as the "Soundblaster Life!" but several of those only emulate the 5.5 kHz and the response time was extremely slow. This may be the casue of the crash you observe. They only worked properly hardware based on 11 kHz and up. I now went to a Sondblaster 128 PCI, but I still miss my old and simple Soundblaster AWE 64 (it doesn't work anymore), especially because it also worked in DOS mode (FFT-DSP), I havnt't had success in getting any of the PCI stuff (with DOS emulation) work properly in DOS ... Vy 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) ---------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24262 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2000 13:44:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Jan 2000 13:44:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126w1C-0007VB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 13:34:58 +0000 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126w1B-0007V6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 13:34:58 +0000 Received: from [213.1.145.82] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 126w1A-0006xM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 13:34:57 +0000 Message-ID: <002801bf59dc$bdd6a060$529101d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: re Sound cards Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 13:00:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, well I was a bit bemused by the troubles with Spectrogram and PCI sound cards. I must be lucky. I have had a lot of trouble with emulator cards and on-board sound cards. I run Spectrogram on a K6-200 (quite pedestrian these days) under Win95 using a PCI 64 (genuine Creative Labs version NOT a look-a-like, this may be important) and use 5.5k samples all the time, and mostly use 16k FFT points. I have recently been using it for long term monitoring around the WA2XTF frequency, and I have NEVER had it crash on me over 100s of hours of use in the last 9 months. I have not tried to use it under DOS. The only probem saving files has occured when there is not enough disk space available. I keep forgetting to empty the bin!! The only time Gram has crashed was when I asked it save a wav. file and it ran out of disk space after about 45 minutes (I'm mean and using old small disks!) FFTDSP4 objects if I do not run it from a clean boot (it is running on a machine which also has Win3.1 on it) it just doesn't see the sound card. I have aa copy Hamview that was written by the two Italian stations (I2PHD and IK2CZL) and runs under DOS also needs a genuine Creative Labs sound card as it writes direct to the card. This crashes regularly on my Cyrix MII -300 with SB-16. Its disadvantage is that it has too wide a spectrum (only 2Hz resolution) Maybe Spectran is an upgrade?? I havent found that yet but I see a site in the messages. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27403 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2000 13:52:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Jan 2000 13:52:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126wAe-0007aT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 13:44:44 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126wAd-0007aO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 13:44:43 +0000 Received: from [195.44.222.97] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126wAZ-0003Yp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 13:44:40 +0000 Message-ID: <3877AF3D.47A84B20@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 13:42:21 -0800 From: "g3kev" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: AMRAD Antenna ? References: <29188.200001071140@gemini> <3875F52A.3AF2D67@bellatlantic.net> <00dc01bf594c$7f1a9ba0$0600a8c0@main> <3876554B.72D98BF3@bellatlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello All. Your comment about your antenna maybe operating like a LOOP is probably correct. I would suggest it is performing like a grounded quad. Similar systems used on 160 and 80 metres where one cannot get a full size quad up. At 1600 ft long and 50 ft high, think that is what you said, its natural resonant frequency used as a grounded quad would be 296 khz. I expect there is some sort of loading to resonate on 137 khz. It would be interesting to check whether it radiates better as a loop or a long wire with the grounded far end disconnected. Judging by experiments in the past using loops v verticlals, I think the vertical/long wire approach would be better for low angle. I have tried a variety of loops in the past for 160 metres ie 40 m loop resonated on 160 and although it was quieter than my full size quarter wave on 160, it was not as sensitive and did not pull in the long haul low angle dx, in fact there were signals that I could not hear that I was able to copy solid on the vertical, although at times probably noiser. Small loops for short/medium distances of several hundred miles are acceptable but for low angle long haul poor on mf/hf. A full size loop ie quad or delta etc resonant at the operating frequency and preferably at least a quarter wave above ground is a totally different story. In the UK stations using loops have poor signals compared to those using verticals, even low verticals heights with top loading. A couple of stations that have been using loops have changed over to verticals and although not very high made a hugh difference to their signals received at my qth. The so called long wire, just a few feet above ground and fed with a drop wire is really a top loaded vertical or inv L. The above comments are a result of experiments and observations, especially on 137 khz and 1800 khz bands 73 de Mal/G3KEV Andre' Kesteloot wrote: > Wooops, > I guess I did not express myself quite clearly enough. > The far end of the wire terminates in a field , (and specifically near a pond) > visited by many cows. In order to avoid any possible unpleasantness (wire > falling on the ground if broken by the wind, etc.), we decided to ground that > end. > It may well be that the whole thing operates as a loop of sorts, as there is a > non-zero resistance between the two grounds (the one at the Tx site, and the one > at the pond end) > 73 > Andre' > > Dave wrote: > > > Surely the Voltage gradient is just the same but the other way round? High > > current point at the earthed end and high Voltage point at the TX site as it > > is about a quarter wave.... > > The "earthed at the far end" idea has been used with topband antennas for > > years in order to get the current into the vertical drop. > > > > 73 Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10228 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2000 14:20:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Jan 2000 14:20:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126wcu-0007ja-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 14:13:56 +0000 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl ([195.121.6.57]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126wcr-0007jV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 14:13:54 +0000 Received: from nl9222tvtref.nl ([195.121.217.253]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id FO0STY02.FBN for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 15:13:10 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: re Sound cards X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 15:11:44 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alan & others, Find spectran at: http://members.xoom.com/spectran/ 73's de Ko, NL9222. JO22KF ---------- > From: Alan Melia > To: rsgb_lf_group > Subject: LF: re Sound cards > Date: Saturday, January 08, 2000 2:00 PM > > Hi All, well I was a bit bemused by the troubles with Spectrogram and PCI > sound cards. I must be lucky. I have had a lot of trouble with emulator > cards and on-board sound cards. I run Spectrogram on a K6-200 (quite > pedestrian these days) under Win95 using a PCI 64 (genuine Creative Labs > version NOT a look-a-like, this may be important) and use 5.5k samples all > the time, and mostly use 16k FFT points. I have recently been using it for > long term monitoring around the WA2XTF frequency, and I have NEVER had it > crash on me over 100s of hours of use in the last 9 months. I have not tried > to use it under DOS. The only probem saving files has occured when there is > not enough disk space available. I keep forgetting to empty the bin!! The > only time Gram has crashed was when I asked it save a wav. file and it ran > out of disk space after about 45 minutes (I'm mean and using old small > disks!) > > FFTDSP4 objects if I do not run it from a clean boot (it is running on a > machine which also has Win3.1 on it) it just doesn't see the sound card. > > I have aa copy Hamview that was written by the two Italian stations (I2PHD > and IK2CZL) and runs under DOS also needs a genuine Creative Labs sound card > as it writes direct to the card. This crashes regularly on my Cyrix MII -300 > with SB-16. Its disadvantage is that it has too wide a spectrum (only 2Hz > resolution) Maybe Spectran is an upgrade?? I havent found that yet but I > see a site in the messages. > > Cheers de Alan G3NYK > Alan.Melia@btinternet.com > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10827 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2000 14:23:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Jan 2000 14:23:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126wfl-0007oE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 14:16:53 +0000 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl ([195.121.6.61]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126wfj-0007o9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 14:16:52 +0000 Received: from nl9222tvtref.nl ([195.121.217.253]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA5D20 for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 15:16:42 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: AMRAD Antenna ? X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 15:15:16 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <7735BE3E669.AAA5D20@smtp01.wxs.nl> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Sorry but i forgot to include this fine program, found at: http://ham.te.hik.se/~sm5bsz/pcdsp/pcdroot.htm Worked with my PCI-64 and now works with AWE-64. 73's de Ko, NL9222. JO22KF ---------- > From: g3kev > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: Re: AMRAD Antenna ? > Date: Saturday, January 08, 2000 10:42 PM > > Hello All. > Your comment about your antenna maybe operating like a LOOP is probably correct. > I would suggest it is performing like a grounded quad. Similar systems used on 160 > and 80 metres where one cannot get a full size quad up. > At 1600 ft long and 50 ft high, think that is what you said, its natural resonant > frequency used as a grounded quad would be 296 khz. I expect there is some sort of > loading to resonate on 137 khz. > It would be interesting to check whether it radiates better as a loop or a long wire > with the grounded far end disconnected. Judging by experiments in the past using > loops v verticlals, I think the vertical/long wire approach would be better for low > angle. > I have tried a variety of loops in the past for 160 metres ie 40 m loop resonated on > 160 and although it was quieter than my full size quarter wave on 160, it was not as > sensitive and did not pull in the long haul low angle dx, in fact there were signals > that I could not hear that I was able to copy solid on the vertical, although at > times probably noiser. Small loops for short/medium distances of several hundred > miles are acceptable but for low angle long haul poor on mf/hf. > A full size loop ie quad or delta etc resonant at the operating frequency and > preferably at least a quarter wave above ground is a totally different story. > In the UK stations using loops have poor signals compared to those using verticals, > even low verticals heights with top loading. A couple of stations that have been > using loops have changed over to verticals and although not very high made a hugh > difference to their signals received at my qth. > The so called long wire, just a few feet above ground and fed with a drop wire is > really a top loaded vertical or inv L. > The above comments are a result of experiments and observations, especially on 137 > khz and 1800 khz bands > 73 de Mal/G3KEV > Andre' Kesteloot wrote: > > > Wooops, > > I guess I did not express myself quite clearly enough. > > The far end of the wire terminates in a field , (and specifically near a pond) > > visited by many cows. In order to avoid any possible unpleasantness (wire > > falling on the ground if broken by the wind, etc.), we decided to ground that > > end. > > It may well be that the whole thing operates as a loop of sorts, as there is a > > non-zero resistance between the two grounds (the one at the Tx site, and the one > > at the pond end) > > 73 > > Andre' > > > > Dave wrote: > > > > > Surely the Voltage gradient is just the same but the other way round? High > > > current point at the earthed end and high Voltage point at the TX site as it > > > is about a quarter wave.... > > > The "earthed at the far end" idea has been used with topband antennas for > > > years in order to get the current into the vertical drop. > > > > > > 73 Dave G3YXM. > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11875 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2000 17:26:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Jan 2000 17:26:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126zR1-0000Wr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 17:13:51 +0000 Received: from mta01.talk21.com ([62.172.192.171] helo=t21mta01-app.talk21.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 126zR0-0000Wm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 17:13:50 +0000 Received: from dave ([213.1.32.160]) by t21mta01-app.talk21.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP id <20000108171611.IRMB1955.t21mta01-app.talk21.com@dave> for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 17:16:11 +0000 Message-ID: <003901bf59fb$b570dfc0$a02001d5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: CFH Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 17:12:12 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Some more points of musing. G0MRF asks what the signal to noise ratio is for CFH. Noise varies enormously between different QTHs, however the signal I receive from CFH during the night and around dawn is s9+10. or 14uV on my quite sensitive receiver (DCF39 is 45uV). To put this into perspective this is just a little below the signals I get from John G4GVC and Dave G3YXM, and stronger than quite a few of the regulars. It certainly prevents use of 137 and around while it is there! It is now suggested that CFH is running 250kW, rather than the 25kW mentioned earlier in the year. That will add another 10dB to any calculations! The single hop propogation distance was also mentioned a few weeks ago as being between 1724 and 1988km. CFH is 4593km from here, so it is likely to be 2 hop with the reflection layer being a little higher than suggested in those mails, and with a sea hop in the middle. The distance to WA2XTF/6 is 5880km, which presumably can only be achieved with 3 hops, one of which may be over land, which will obviously increase the path loss. Clearly there is hope for a QSO into VE1 land (if CFH is off!), but I remain pessimistic even of W2 land. Many thanks to Jon and the other guys at CFH. Calculation of CFH propogation is invaluable in the quest for an eventual transatlantic amateur QSO, although once the novelty of hearing it has worn off it becomes rather more QRM than DX! If only we could get the same sort of rapport with the staff who man the Rugby station on 73.4! 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27259 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2000 18:57:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Jan 2000 18:57:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1270ul-0001AC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 18:48:39 +0000 Received: from tantalum.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.80]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1270uk-0001A7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 18:48:38 +0000 Received: from [213.1.135.197] (helo=default) by tantalum.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 1270sx-0004dx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 18:46:48 +0000 Message-ID: <005201bf5a08$541406a0$008601d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Power o/p of CFH Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 18:43:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Dave CFH is NOT running 250kW, Jon who works on the beastie says its capable of 25kW but normally runsa at 9 to 10 kW to keep the electricvity bill down. Apparently the Canadian Navy like all the others is suffering cuts to its budget since the end of the Cold War. 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9865 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2000 19:48:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Jan 2000 19:48:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1271hW-0001Ur-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 19:39:02 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1271hV-0001Um-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 19:39:01 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from dennison.demon.co.uk ([194.222.239.33]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 1271hT-0003Nr-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 19:38:59 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 19:37:30 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Mike Dennison" Subject: Re: LF: LF antenna In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.20000104153138.2f4797da@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ON7YD wrote: >A bit desperate I started my final attempt, again inspired by Mike, G3XDV, >who reported an improvement of his antenna by adding some inductance at the >top of the vertical section of his antenna. [big cut] DCF39 seemed about a S-point stronger, but that could be >just QSB. Also G3AQC who was CQ-ing sounded stronger, but the ear can be >very subjective. I called Laurie, being curious about my report. To my >pleasure I got a 1 S-point better report than I got so far from him, so it >was not just my imagination that despite the lower antennecurrent signals >were stronger. >The same evening I managed to work Finbar, EI0CF, (got 439 / 539) for the >first time after having called him over and over for the last year. >The next days reports from several stations (G4GVC, G3YXM, DK8KW) showed an >increase of 1 S-point. Very interested in this report from Rik. At the time I announced my success, Rik spent some time running through the maths with me to show that theoretically there should be no improvement - and I could not argue with that. I recall replying that if practice and theory did not agree, believe the practice. Recently, Dick, PA0SE, also argued mathematically and by modelling that there was no improvement to be had. Later, after many e-mails and discussions with others, I came to wonder whether my experience was unique, and was probably due to the vertical part of the antenna being very close to the house (therefore anything that increased the current high up - above the house - gave me a better signal that it would for anyone else). This, of course, could still be true as Rik has considerable screening by trees. I shall be shorting out the top coil later this month so I can use the antenna in the CW WW 160 contest, and will carry out some before and after tests at that time. I believe that optimum results should occur when the antenna is made self-resonant, but I suspect it will be affected badly by changes in the environment (trees in summer/winter, rain, ice, etc). It's probably not worth reopening the debate which has already been well aired, unless someone can make the maths fit the experimental results. -- Mike, G3XDV IO91VT http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23409 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2000 20:28:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Jan 2000 20:28:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1272Me-0001o3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 20:21:32 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1272Md-0001ny-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 20:21:32 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id UAA24896 for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 20:21:19 GMT X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <2000010820202768199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 20:20:27 GMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: Re: LF: You can't keep a good man down Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit > Unfortunately I lost my LF-antenna in the storm and it is not to repair. > May be I will come back one day in the next millennium. In the meantime > I wish you all a happy new year and good DX. I had a QSO with Marzio I5MXX at 1730 today 8/1. Just after this QSO heard a station on 136.25kHz testing and sending Vs. It turned out to be HB9ASB. We had a QSO with what Toni called his 'Chaos' antenna which produced a 569 signal my end. Toni is busy repairing the damage from the storm and it was a real pleasure to hear him back on 136 again. Welcome back Toni. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 900 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2000 20:58:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Jan 2000 20:58:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1272pJ-00020v-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 20:51:09 +0000 Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.15]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1272pH-00020o-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 20:51:07 +0000 Received: from [202.27.181.30] by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <20000108205036.OXYX3352759.mta4-rme@[202.27.181.30]> for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 09:50:36 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3877A137.5F0D@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 09:42:31 +1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: AMRAD Antenna ? References: <29188.200001071140@gemini> <3875F52A.3AF2D67@bellatlantic.net> <00dc01bf594c$7f1a9ba0$0600a8c0@main> <3876554B.72D98BF3@bellatlantic.net> <3877AF3D.47A84B20@netscapeonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, The "dipole" with outer ends each grounded is used by some ZL stations for LF receiving. It has been called a ground loop, after the name given to it by Andrew ZL2BBJ in a local article. The LF ground path goes "underground" as skin depth is many metres at LF in typical soil, so the loop area is significantly more than the visible area above ground. The ground path (actually multiple paths) between "dipole" ends is lossy compared to copper wire, so the circulating current is generally lower than if ground wires were used, however the aperture is greater if no ground conductors are used, and aperture is what is good for receiving (the noise figure is basically set by signal to external QRN ratio). In use for transmitting, the ground loop can be expected to be fairly lossy compared to higher Q antennas (DX QSOs need absolute radiated power). Bob ZL2CA g3kev wrote: > > Hello All. > Your comment about your antenna maybe operating like a LOOP is probably correct. > I would suggest it is performing like a grounded quad. Similar systems used on 160 > and 80 metres where one cannot get a full size quad up. > At 1600 ft long and 50 ft high, think that is what you said, its natural resonant > frequency used as a grounded quad would be 296 khz. I expect there is some sort of > loading to resonate on 137 khz. > It would be interesting to check whether it radiates better as a loop or a long wire > with the grounded far end disconnected. Judging by experiments in the past using > loops v verticlals, I think the vertical/long wire approach would be better for low > angle. > I have tried a variety of loops in the past for 160 metres ie 40 m loop resonated on > 160 and although it was quieter than my full size quarter wave on 160, it was not as > sensitive and did not pull in the long haul low angle dx, in fact there were signals > that I could not hear that I was able to copy solid on the vertical, although at > times probably noiser. Small loops for short/medium distances of several hundred > miles are acceptable but for low angle long haul poor on mf/hf. > A full size loop ie quad or delta etc resonant at the operating frequency and > preferably at least a quarter wave above ground is a totally different story. > In the UK stations using loops have poor signals compared to those using verticals, > even low verticals heights with top loading. A couple of stations that have been > using loops have changed over to verticals and although not very high made a hugh > difference to their signals received at my qth. > The so called long wire, just a few feet above ground and fed with a drop wire is > really a top loaded vertical or inv L. > The above comments are a result of experiments and observations, especially on 137 > khz and 1800 khz bands > 73 de Mal/G3KEV > Andre' Kesteloot wrote: > > > Wooops, > > I guess I did not express myself quite clearly enough. > > The far end of the wire terminates in a field , (and specifically near a pond) > > visited by many cows. In order to avoid any possible unpleasantness (wire > > falling on the ground if broken by the wind, etc.), we decided to ground that > > end. > > It may well be that the whole thing operates as a loop of sorts, as there is a > > non-zero resistance between the two grounds (the one at the Tx site, and the one > > at the pond end) > > 73 > > Andre' > > > > Dave wrote: > > > > > Surely the Voltage gradient is just the same but the other way round? High > > > current point at the earthed end and high Voltage point at the TX site as it > > > is about a quarter wave.... > > > The "earthed at the far end" idea has been used with topband antennas for > > > years in order to get the current into the vertical drop. > > > > > > 73 Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23267 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2000 00:59:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Jan 2000 00:59:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1276TD-0003Y3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 00:44:35 +0000 Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1276TB-0003Xy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 00:44:34 +0000 Received: from [202.27.181.188] by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <20000109004923.QTMM21196.mta2-rme@[202.27.181.188]> for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 13:49:23 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3877D9E6.2488@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 13:44:23 +1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: LF antenna References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike Dennison wrote: > > ON7YD wrote: > >A bit desperate I started my final attempt, again inspired by Mike, > G3XDV, > >who reported an improvement of his antenna by adding some inductance at > the > >top of the vertical section of his antenna. [big cut] DCF39 seemed > about a S-point stronger, but that could be > >just QSB. Also G3AQC who was CQ-ing sounded stronger, but the ear can > be > >very subjective. I called Laurie, being curious about my report. To my > >pleasure I got a 1 S-point better report than I got so far from him, so > it > >was not just my imagination that despite the lower antennecurrent > signals > >were stronger. > >The same evening I managed to work Finbar, EI0CF, (got 439 / 539) for > the > >first time after having called him over and over for the last year. > >The next days reports from several stations (G4GVC, G3YXM, DK8KW) > showed an > >increase of 1 S-point. > > Very interested in this report from Rik. At the time I announced my > success, Rik spent some time running through the maths with me to show > that theoretically there should be no improvement - and I could not > argue with that. I recall replying that if practice and theory did not > agree, believe the practice. Recently, Dick, PA0SE, also argued > mathematically and by modelling that there was no improvement to be had. > > Later, after many e-mails and discussions with others, I came to wonder > whether my experience was unique, and was probably due to the vertical > part of the antenna being very close to the house (therefore anything > that increased the current high up - above the house - gave me a better > signal that it would for anyone else). This, of course, could still be > true as Rik has considerable screening by trees. > > I shall be shorting out the top coil later this month so I can use the > antenna in the CW WW 160 contest, and will carry out some before and > after tests at that time. > > I believe that optimum results should occur when the antenna is made > self-resonant, but I suspect it will be affected badly by changes in the > environment (trees in summer/winter, rain, ice, etc). > > It's probably not worth reopening the debate which has already been well > aired, unless someone can make the maths fit the experimental results. > -- > Mike, G3XDV > IO91VT Most of the modelling software available to amateurs does not model real ground, and neither is there a way of accounting for trees and shrubs in the antenna environment, but there are suggestions that "greenery" losses occur (I think it was Finbar who obtained higher current after avoiding clutter). Commercial beacon stations do not employ loading coils at the top of the "up wire", but they likely have very good ground systems along with a clear site, so dielectric loss in the soil or in trees is avoided by engineering their site conditions. Amateur operation from home stations is where a difference occurs, with clutter and greenery losses waitng to soak up LF power :( Thus there could be advantages in having much of the loading coil further up the antenna system, so that losses near the up wire are reduced (lower voltage means lower field strength gradients around the up wire, thus lower losses in greenery, etc). The practical disadvantages of an elevated loading coil are mechanical support needed, and it surviving high voltages on transmit, during wet or humid weather. I am not a supporter of using ferrite cores in loading coils, as it could become nonlinear under transmit current. High Q air cored coils for LF loading are rather large, and heavy, hence the practicality of using them at the bottom of the up wire ... I also agree that practical evidence is what counts for assessing the possible improvement with having loading inductance at the top of the up wire. The evidence so far is that it can improve the efficiency of an amateur LF antenna system. While I have not implemented this myself, I had considered how to obtain MULTIBAND use of the LF antenna system, for the likes of 160 and 80 metres. My thinking is to instead of having only a loading inductor at the top of the up wire, additionally use a parallel capacitor so the LC "trap" is resonant at say 500 kHz, making it usefully inductive at LF, but at higher ham bands the LC network has a low enough capacitive reactance to make use of the top loading wires to carry useful currents on 160 and 80 metres. I have not done the calculations as to what L/C ratio is suitable, nor what voltage rating the capacitor would need to be for not breaking down on LF transmit. The idea is floated for consideration. Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5214 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2000 06:32:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Jan 2000 06:32:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127Bft-0005oQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 06:18:01 +0000 Received: from ds-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.136] helo=spdmgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127Bfs-0005oL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 06:18:00 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id BAA15704 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 01:17:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 01:17:33 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Signal Strength vs. Distance Updated To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200001090117_MC2-93E7-197@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Good morning, friends, I have updated my signal strength observations and again plotted signal strength of European LF hams vs. distance. You can find this graph either directly through http://www.qru.de following the "LF Activity (Ham)/Signal strength observations" link, or it might also work directly http://www.qru.de/signals.html If you want to compare your signal strength in relation to the others, you have to correlate the dots on the graph with my logbook http://www.qru.de/stnhrd.htm Have fun, and don't get to upset if your signal does not really match your expectations. First of all the measurements were just made during regular QSOs, so they are not too scientifically relevantn second you might want to improve your setup to squeeze that last 1.5 dB out of your station ... ;-) Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24980 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2000 09:51:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Jan 2000 09:51:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127EsS-00073p-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 09:43:12 +0000 Received: from [195.166.128.23] (helo=merlins.force9.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127EsR-00073k-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 09:43:11 +0000 Received: (qmail 32765 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2000 09:43:08 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by merlins0.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Jan 2000 09:43:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 12475 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2000 09:43:08 -0000 Received: from 9.3b-01.quay.dial.plus.net.uk (HELO main) (212.159.122.9) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Jan 2000 09:43:08 -0000 Message-ID: <001101bf5a86$94278a40$0600a8c0@main> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200001090117_MC2-93E7-197@compuserve.com> Subject: LF: Re: Signal Strength vs. Distance Updated Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 09:44:47 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Geri said.... >I have updated my signal strength observations and again plotted signal >strength of European LF hams vs. distance. I say... Bother! I need another 8dB, send for more fets! I think the -90dB signal within the G/GW elipse is actually HB9ASB. Very interesting Geri. Let's see what Dick comes up with. 73, Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27644 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2000 10:06:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Jan 2000 10:06:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127F73-0007Er-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 09:58:17 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.88]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127F72-0007Em-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 09:58:17 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from dennison.demon.co.uk ([194.222.239.33]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 127F6x-000Fln-0U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 09:58:13 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 09:57:26 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Mike Dennison" Subject: Re: LF: LF antenna In-reply-to: <3877D9E6.2488@xtra.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ZL2CA wrote: >The practical disadvantages of an elevated loading coil are mechanical >support needed, and it surviving high voltages on transmit, during wet >or humid weather. I am not a supporter of using ferrite cores in >loading coils, as it could become nonlinear under transmit current. >High Q air cored coils for LF loading are rather large, and heavy, hence >the practicality of using them at the bottom of the up wire ... > Agreed. The arrangement I use is about 80 turns of enamelled wire on a 3 litre cola bottle. This is quite light. It could easily go at the top of a 'T', though its effective 'weight' would be increased whenever the wind blew. I mount mine on top of the pole supporting the vertical part of an 'L' (see my web site for pics and diagram). The construction of the coil takes some ingenuity. First you need to make it solid as in its natural state the bottle is too floppy to wind the wire on. This is achieved by removing the lid and putting the empty bottle in a freezer for an hour or so. The take it out and screw the lid on. The air inside expands within a few minutes and the bottle becomes very hard (thanks to Rik for this idea). Then, with the aid of some plastic tape, wind as many turns as you can get on the coil. Completely cover it with plastic tape when finished - this lasts about a year in the sun and rain and shows no sign of insulation breakdown (it also looks much less silly than having a cola bottle on top of the mast!). The taped coil is now solid enough to let the air out of the bottle. I have two other refinements: To reduce the wind resistance, I taped the 'top half' of a second bottle to the blunt end of the coil former. This not only makes it more streamlined but makes it look less like a bottle! And I mounted it on top of my mast by running a plastic pipe through the bottle (through each of the bottle 'tops'). If this sounds confusing, look at the web pics. Certainly, it can be argued that this type of coil is not optimum as it inevitably involves compromises, but it does work. I would like to try increasing the inductance with ferrite which would probably give a good inductance to weight ratio, but getting the right ferrite is not easy. -- Mike, G3XDV IO91VT http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22072 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2000 10:33:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Jan 2000 10:33:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127Fao-0007Je-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 10:29:02 +0000 Received: from hugo.fen.baynet.de ([194.95.193.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127Fan-0007JZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 10:29:02 +0000 Received: from 194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de (dialin-nbg-175.fen.baynet.de [195.37.215.55]) by hugo.fen.baynet.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA05739 for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 11:25:18 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <003201bf5a8c$7f4c6ea0$37d725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de> From: "Walter Staubach" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Good News Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 11:29:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi to all and best wishes for the new millenium. The new year began succesfully, worked DJ9IE (new, 4.1.), DL3FDO (5.1, new, Reiner never heard me before because of his local noise in the Frankfurt area), I5MXX (8.1., new, strong signal, my fist I-stn in regular CW) and IK5ZPV (8.1., new, he was539, could read me only in QRSS). So I hope the new lf-year will continue like in the the first days. Best wishes, Walter, JN59NO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26569 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2000 12:02:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Jan 2000 12:02:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127GuW-0007z3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 11:53:28 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127GuV-0007yy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 11:53:27 +0000 Received: from [213.1.148.37] (helo=default) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 127GuM-0007E5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 11:53:18 +0000 Message-ID: <000201bf5a97$a7a604a0$259401d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Jim M0BMU Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 20:33:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Jim I tried to send direct to you about 73k but it sort of bounced. If you can send a confirmation of your email address I send it again Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2622 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2000 13:15:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Jan 2000 13:15:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127I49-0008Sh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 13:07:29 +0000 Received: from as-img-2.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.145] helo=spamgaab.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127I48-0008Sc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 13:07:28 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id IAA18063 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 08:07:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 08:06:55 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Signal Strength vs. Distance Updated To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200001090807_MC2-93D3-E5CB@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave, G3YXM wrote: >I think the -90dB signal within the G/GW elipse is actually HB9ASB.< right you are, so dont'worry, he is not within the British competition ... find the hidden SM station ... ;-) BTW(1): just changed the picture slightly, added 10 dB lines to make each missing dB better readable ... BTW(2): If you want to know where I stand in this graph (well, at least I wanted to know ...): Klaus from Berlin has measured my signal and compared it to DCF39. He is approximately the same distance from DCF39 as I am (120 km), only in the other direction. He receives DCF39 with -41 dBu, and me, who is 226 km away, with -110 dBu. That puts me approximately to -92 dBu@226 km (somewhere in the middle of the German crowd (no, not Kraut) ...). So, let Dick, PA0SE be the wise independant man in the centre of Europe: what did you come up wit, Dick? 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) http://www.qru.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11526 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2000 17:49:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Jan 2000 17:49:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127MIc-0001aI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 17:38:42 +0000 Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127MIb-0001aD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 17:38:41 +0000 Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.53) with SMTP id 06737841 for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 12:38:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3878C783.A3B6A0EE@phonakcom.ch> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 18:38:11 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Toni_B=E4rtschi?= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [de] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en-US,en-GB,fr-FR MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: HB9ASB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello friends, and thanks for all the e-mail. Yesterday I have tested a replacement for my LF antenna and had two nice QSO's with G3LDO and DL1SAN. I don't know if the thing I'm using can be called an antenna but it seems to radiate (SWR is terrible). It would be too confusing to describe it, so I call it the chaos antenna. I have put up as high in the air what I've found in my junk box, including a 0.75mH loading coil at 17m. It is an inductively and capacitively loaded multi-wire zig-zag antenna, including parts of a broken helical vertical. Anyway it will certainly not survive a storm and I hope it stays up until next summer when I will replace it by something more robust. The storm last year was the worst we ever had and up here every roof was damaged and the forest looks like after a nuclear war. There is still a lot of work, but now everything is covered with snow and ice. In addition we have been attacked by a very bad millennium bug. But instead of the computers it "crashed" the operators and my doctor said it was an influenza virus. 73 de Toni, HB9ASB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16528 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2000 18:43:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Jan 2000 18:43:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127NC8-0001yl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 18:36:04 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127NC7-0001yg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 18:36:03 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer (man-010.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.41.12]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id SAA31163 for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 18:35:26 GMT Message-ID: <000001bf5ace$a807a7a0$0c29f7c2@oemcomputer> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <29188.200001071140@gemini> <3875F52A.3AF2D67@bellatlantic.net> <00dc01bf594c$7f1a9ba0$0600a8c0@main> <3876554B.72D98BF3@bellatlantic.net> <3877AF3D.47A84B20@netscapeonline.co.uk> <3877A137.5F0D@xtra.co.nz> Subject: Re: LF: Re: AMRAD Antenna ? Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 10:12:18 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: We use this technique of grounding both ends of a wire in Cave Radio work as it enables us to communicate to a greater depth than does the conventional method, which uses resonant loops a metre or two in diameter. It has also been used on 73 kHz at a location in Oxfordshire - the station was heard at a distance of 250 kilometres. This technique has been referred to as an earth bipole. I understand from Graham Naylor that during the recent cave rescue operation in south-western France, where this technique was used, the rescue party developed a new variation at the surface station. Instead of feeding the wire in a symmetrical manner at its centre, the two halves of the bipole were strapped together and fed against an earth connection near the mid-point of the wire. This seemed to produce equally good results as far as underground communication was concerned and produced a useful reduction in the level of interference from LORAN. This technique has been dubbed the earth tripole. 73 de John Rabson G3PAI ----- Original Message ----- From: vernall To: Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 8:42 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: AMRAD Antenna ? > Hi all, > > The "dipole" with outer ends each grounded is used by some ZL stations > for LF receiving. It has been called a ground loop, after the name > given to it by Andrew ZL2BBJ in a local article. The LF ground path > goes "underground" as skin depth is many metres at LF in typical soil, > so the loop area is significantly more than the visible area above > ground. > > The ground path (actually multiple paths) between "dipole" ends is lossy > compared to copper wire, so the circulating current is generally lower > than if ground wires were used, however the aperture is greater if no > ground conductors are used, and aperture is what is good for receiving > (the noise figure is basically set by signal to external QRN ratio). In > use for transmitting, the ground loop can be expected to be fairly lossy > compared to higher Q antennas (DX QSOs need absolute radiated power). > > Bob ZL2CA > > g3kev wrote: > > > > Hello All. > > Your comment about your antenna maybe operating like a LOOP is probably correct. > > I would suggest it is performing like a grounded quad. Similar systems used on 160 > > and 80 metres where one cannot get a full size quad up. > > At 1600 ft long and 50 ft high, think that is what you said, its natural resonant > > frequency used as a grounded quad would be 296 khz. I expect there is some sort of > > loading to resonate on 137 khz. > > It would be interesting to check whether it radiates better as a loop or a long wire > > with the grounded far end disconnected. Judging by experiments in the past using > > loops v verticlals, I think the vertical/long wire approach would be better for low > > angle. > > I have tried a variety of loops in the past for 160 metres ie 40 m loop resonated on > > 160 and although it was quieter than my full size quarter wave on 160, it was not as > > sensitive and did not pull in the long haul low angle dx, in fact there were signals > > that I could not hear that I was able to copy solid on the vertical, although at > > times probably noiser. Small loops for short/medium distances of several hundred > > miles are acceptable but for low angle long haul poor on mf/hf. > > A full size loop ie quad or delta etc resonant at the operating frequency and > > preferably at least a quarter wave above ground is a totally different story. > > In the UK stations using loops have poor signals compared to those using verticals, > > even low verticals heights with top loading. A couple of stations that have been > > using loops have changed over to verticals and although not very high made a hugh > > difference to their signals received at my qth. > > The so called long wire, just a few feet above ground and fed with a drop wire is > > really a top loaded vertical or inv L. > > The above comments are a result of experiments and observations, especially on 137 > > khz and 1800 khz bands > > 73 de Mal/G3KEV > > Andre' Kesteloot wrote: > > > > > Wooops, > > > I guess I did not express myself quite clearly enough. > > > The far end of the wire terminates in a field , (and specifically near a pond) > > > visited by many cows. In order to avoid any possible unpleasantness (wire > > > falling on the ground if broken by the wind, etc.), we decided to ground that > > > end. > > > It may well be that the whole thing operates as a loop of sorts, as there is a > > > non-zero resistance between the two grounds (the one at the Tx site, and the one > > > at the pond end) > > > 73 > > > Andre' > > > > > > Dave wrote: > > > > > > > Surely the Voltage gradient is just the same but the other way round? High > > > > current point at the earthed end and high Voltage point at the TX site as it > > > > is about a quarter wave.... > > > > The "earthed at the far end" idea has been used with topband antennas for > > > > years in order to get the current into the vertical drop. > > > > > > > > 73 Dave G3YXM. > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20455 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2000 18:58:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Jan 2000 18:58:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127NPJ-00024a-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 18:49:41 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127NPJ-00024V-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 18:49:41 +0000 Received: from [195.44.218.170] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127NPG-0003K2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 18:49:39 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <38794724.F75605E8@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 18:42:44 -0800 From: "g3kev" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: loops etc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All. Bob/ZL2CA in a recent message makes the same observations about grounded dipoles ie grounded loops in use in NZealand as I did in my experiments. Avoid such antennas if possible especially on 137 khz for transmitting. Even on receive they do not have the potential of a verticlal system. If you are stuck for space or other reasons and have to use any sort of loop on MF/LF then you must realize your limitations, and be content with limited communications distance. Often when a qso takes place between a station that is either qrp or has a poor antenna it is the other station with a better/larger antenna that is doing all the work, same on HF. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28169 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2000 19:12:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Jan 2000 19:12:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127Ncv-0002CD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 19:03:45 +0000 Received: from kuku-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.63] helo=kuku.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127Ncu-0002C3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 19:03:45 +0000 Received: from almond.excite.com ([199.172.148.82]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with SMTP id <20000109190250.UHQK14514.gigi.excite.com@almond.excite.com> for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 11:02:50 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <22086128.947444570766.JavaMail.imail@almond.excite.com> Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 11:02:50 -0800 (PST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Sound cards. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.1.58.73 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi David, Regrettably I haven't got a solution, other than to say that it doesn't fail on my 233MHz Pentium with 64MBytes of RAM and Windows 95, so it may be a problem with your PC, not enough memory, not powerful enough, etc. It is really a bug in the sofware, but only shows up when there are not enough resources. I am running Spectrogram version 5.1.2, which I believe is the latest. It might be an idea to address the problem to the author. Regards, John. _______________________________________________________ Visit Excite Shopping at http://shopping.excite.com The fastest way to find your Holiday gift this season From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22934 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2000 20:47:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Jan 2000 20:47:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127P8m-0002qg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 20:40:44 +0000 Received: from smtp7.xs4all.nl ([194.109.127.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127P8l-0002qb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 20:40:44 +0000 Received: from v3q4v1 (dc2-isdn876.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.151.108]) by smtp7.xs4all.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA15391; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 21:40:40 +0100 (CET) From: "M. Sanders \(PA3BSH\)" To: G0MRF@aol.com Cc: "LF-reflector RSGB" Subject: RE: LF: RE: Sound cards. Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 21:34:36 +0100 Message-ID: <000501bf5ae0$f208cb60$6c976dc2@v3q4v1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear David, G0MRF wrote: > Yes I also run mine at 11k and 16k FFT. The results are very > good, but they > would be 3dB better if I could access it at 5k5 and 16k FFT. 0.3Hz > resolution and not 0.7Hz. > I am not shure about the 3dB. Conventional filters improve the wanted signal when decreasing bandwith. The amount of energy/bandwith or signal to noise ratio that goes into the soundcard input is not changed when applying a more refined FFT algorthm. We should bear in mind the orriginal transmitted signal is about 5 to 15 Hz wide. Spreading the spectral reading accross more fine lines in the display does not improve things as far as i can see. There is an other feature however in Spectogram that is helpfull. The relative signal strengths of signals can be identiefied in colours. When choosing the 30dB scale for the full spectrum one can identify wanted signals with a better signal to noise perception. Signals with a more or less constant strength appear in one colour. Our wanted signal will be in one colour when the AGC is turned off. When filtering the other colours out the signal to noise ratio (by eye) increases dramatically. The topic interest me so i have posted this message on the reflector as well, hoping someone has some more info about the effects on signal to noise ratio. Greetings, Michael Sanders, PA3BSH From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5670 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2000 22:55:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Jan 2000 22:55:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127R8O-0003da-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 22:48:28 +0000 Received: from ares.idirect.com ([207.136.80.180]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127R8L-0003dV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 22:48:25 +0000 Received: from lp108 (ts7-3ot-3.idirect.com [216.154.60.98]) by ares.idirect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA12323 for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 17:50:32 -0500 (EST) From: "Keith Ballinger" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: HB9ASB Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 17:48:15 -0500 Message-ID: <000001bf5af3$b0baad00$623c9ad8@lp108> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: <3878C783.A3B6A0EE@phonakcom.ch> Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ares.idirect.com id RAA12323 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Toni, Where in Switzerland do you live? I have several friends and former co-workers who live in Appenzellerland - was that area also badly affected by the storms? Regards, Keith Ballinger VA3QF (ex-HB9KOW) NEPEAN, Ontario, CANADA E-mail: kballinger@idirect.com -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of Toni Bärtschi Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 12:38 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: HB9ASB Hello friends, and thanks for all the e-mail. Yesterday I have tested a replacement for my LF antenna and had two nice QSO's with G3LDO and DL1SAN. I don't know if the thing I'm using can be called an antenna but it seems to radiate (SWR is terrible). It would be too confusing to describe it, so I call it the chaos antenna. I have put up as high in the air what I've found in my junk box, including a 0.75mH loading coil at 17m. It is an inductively and capacitively loaded multi-wire zig-zag antenna, including parts of a broken helical vertical. Anyway it will certainly not survive a storm and I hope it stays up until next summer when I will replace it by something more robust. The storm last year was the worst we ever had and up here every roof was damaged and the forest looks like after a nuclear war. There is still a lot of work, but now everything is covered with snow and ice. In addition we have been attacked by a very bad millennium bug. But instead of the computers it "crashed" the operators and my doctor said it was an influenza virus. 73 de Toni, HB9ASB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20169 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2000 23:39:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Jan 2000 23:39:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127RpB-0003wW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 23:32:41 +0000 Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127RpA-0003wR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 23:32:41 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id l.cf.cf77b065 (4420) for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 18:32:11 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 18:32:10 EST Subject: Re: LF: Jim M0BMU To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 137 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 1/9/00 11:59:51 GMT Standard Time, Alan.Melia@btinternet.com writes: << Subj: LF: Jim M0BMU Date: 1/9/00 11:59:51 GMT Standard Time From: Alan.Melia@btinternet.com (Alan Melia) Sender: majordom@post.thorcom.com Reply-to: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org (rsgb_lf_group) Hi Jim I tried to send direct to you about 73k but it sort of bounced. If you can send a confirmation of your email address I send it again Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com >> Ditto G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14826 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2000 01:54:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jan 2000 01:54:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127Ts9-0004m3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 01:43:53 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from oso.slonet.org ([207.114.180.2] ident=cbuttsch) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127Ts8-0004ly-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 01:43:52 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from localhost by oso.slonet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA28117 for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 17:43:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 17:43:40 -0800 (PST) From: "Clifford Buttschardt" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Jim M0BMU In-reply-to: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Sort of???? On Sun, 9 Jan 2000 G0MRF@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/9/00 11:59:51 GMT Standard Time, > Alan.Melia@btinternet.com writes: > > << Subj: LF: Jim M0BMU > Date: 1/9/00 11:59:51 GMT Standard Time > From: Alan.Melia@btinternet.com (Alan Melia) > Sender: majordom@post.thorcom.com > Reply-to: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org (rsgb_lf_group) > > Hi Jim I tried to send direct to you about 73k but it sort of bounced. > If you can send a confirmation of your email address I send it again > Cheers de Alan G3NYK > Alan.Melia@btinternet.com > >> > Ditto G0MRF > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12504 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2000 07:52:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jan 2000 07:52:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127ZSb-000760-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 07:41:53 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from server.italway.it ([193.70.27.5] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127ZSZ-00075v-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 07:41:52 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from allstars (access24.italway.it [193.70.27.123]) by server.italway.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA23060 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 09:37:01 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20000110084519.0069b6b8@mail.italway.it> X-Sender: i5mxx@mail.italway.it (Unverified) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) [I] Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 08:45:19 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "i5mxx - Marzio" Subject: LF: Week-end report MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF Guys! Good band conditions in Italy during weekend until about 18.00 z, then noise rapidly gone up, both saturday and sunday. Stations worked: Saturday 8 Jan.: OE5ODL 17.01 z 549 DJ2LF 17.12 z 539 G3LDO 17.32 z 529 Sunday 9 Jan: G3KEV 16.35 z 559 Heard also several times HB9ASB testing in the band, signal up to 569 ( happy to hear you again Toni). Missing qso with DJ9?? ( probably IE) cause noise growth. Good luck on LF. 73 de Marzio I5MXX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28717 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2000 08:35:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jan 2000 08:35:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127aDv-0007Pc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 08:30:47 +0000 Received: from ds9.sci.fi ([195.74.0.54]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127aDu-0007PX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 08:30:46 +0000 Received: from default (MMMCMXVI.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.165.16]) by ds9.sci.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA14069; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 10:30:43 +0200 (EET) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000110103046.007ea9b0@laatikko.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: oh2lx@laatikko.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 10:30:46 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: Listening report 24 Nov 1999 Cc: MN@nipl.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: LF observations 9 JAN 2000 (136..137 kHz) by OH2LX (qth: Jokela, South Finland, KP20LN, (60N34 024E58) (AR7030Plus/---- 10m coax---/1:10/---15m wire----): 2105z 136.5 G3YXM clg CQ (319) 2112z 136.5 IK5ZPV clg CQ (319) - clg CQ again 2118, 2122, 2124 UTC 2135z OH3LYG (439) clg IK5ZPV, no qso 2138z 136.6 IK5ZPV clg CQ (319); 2242z again... 2206z 136.5 G3YXM clg CQ (319) - clg CQ again 2208, 2211, 2217 UTC 2218z OH3LYG answering & working G3YXM IK5ZPV & G3YXM: same strength for these 1˝ hours. 2200z 137.0 CHI signs on, S-estimate: -120 dBmW -------------------------------------------------- Below measuring results of 10 JAN 2000, 0510 UTC - -------------------------------------------------- (R&S ESH2/---- 10m coax---/1:10/---15m wire-----): Noise level with antenna: with 200Hz IF BandWidth: -24..-22 dB(uV), -131..-129dBmW (varies w ICM etc) Noise level with antenna: with 500Hz IF BandWidth: -18..-16 dB(uV), -125..-123dBmW (varies w ICM etc) -------------------------------------------------- 128.9 DCF49 +23 dB(uV) -84 dBmW 135.7 Greek +4 -103 137.0 CHI -18 -125 138.8 DCF39 +32 -75 141.4 ? +5 -102 146.8 ? +1 -106 131.8 Datatrak +3 -103 133.2 Datatrak -3 -110 144.6 Datatrak +3 -103 146.5 Datatrak -4 -111 -------------------------------------------------- AUDIO NOTES: Big difference in audios of my two receivers. In AR7030Plus signals come from "empty space" with practically no background noise.. R&S ESH2 being a Measuring receiver with no AGC etc sounds as if waterdrops were falling on ice... (Most of you no doubt understand this difference). I must be lucky to have only slight amount of QRM w ICM (fm 138.83) and Russian Chayka on background. Note: This is after de-activating ISDN installation. --------------------------------------------------- ICM (Ionospheric Cross-Modulation)-Could you please check which stations you possibly can identify on DCF39 138.83 carrier, especially on Lower SideBand. After aurally monitoring ICM for decades I only now have noticed some funny effects with some ICM audio bursts "leaking" down to at least 136.0 kHz (that is 3 kHz down from carrier), this with 500 Hz cw filter while sometimes listening and standing by for hours. As you know ICM effectively filters higher audios. ---------------------------------------------------- 73 and Happy 2000 to all de Vaino, OH2LX ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18426 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2000 08:56:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jan 2000 08:56:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127aW3-0007Vl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 08:49:31 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127aW2-0007Vg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 08:49:30 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA98264 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 09:49:27 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000110104749.2ec7cff4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 10:47:49 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Sound cards. In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I cannot get GRAM working at 5.5kHz on my 'ham-PC', but it works perfect on other PC's. I haven't figured it out yet, but my 'ham-PC' has only 16MB RAM so that might be a reason. 73, Rik ON7YD At 22:29 7/01/00 EST, you wrote: >Hello All. > >Does anyone have a "fix" for a fault that causes spectrogram (or windows) to >crash when it's started up on 5k5 sample rate? > >It appears to happen irrespectively of the number of FFT points selected. It >may be a soundcard problem but I've seen this on a couple of computers now >and it's always the most sensitive setting that causes the problem. > >73 > > >David G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29914 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2000 09:59:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jan 2000 09:59:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127bSb-0007wK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 09:50:01 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127bSa-0007vs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 09:50:00 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA145366 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 10:49:57 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000110114820.2d276e7a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:48:20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: LF antenna In-reply-to: References: <3.0.1.16.20000104153138.2f4797da@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 19:37 8/01/00 +0000, G3XDV wrote: >>A bit desperate I started my final attempt, again inspired by Mike, G3XDV, >>who reported an improvement of his antenna by adding some inductance at the >>top of the vertical section of his antenna. >>... >>The next days reports from several stations (G4GVC, G3YXM, DK8KW) showed an >>increase of 1 S-point. > >Very interested in this report from Rik. At the time I announced my >success, Rik spent some time running through the maths with me to show >that theoretically there should be no improvement - and I could not >argue with that. I recall replying that if practice and theory did not >agree, believe the practice. Recently, Dick, PA0SE, also argued >mathematically and by modelling that there was no improvement to be had. I did some additional measurements on the antenna this weekend, I will compare them with the data I have from the 'old' antenna (without the top loading coil) and report to the reflector if anything interestng comes up. So far there are 3 hams reporting a major improvement by adding some inductance at the top of the vertical : DF3LP (who has almost 100% of the total loading coil at the top) G3XDV (don't know the values of the loading coils) ON7YD (2mH at the base, 1.25mH at the top) All 3 have 'objects' very close to the antenna (trees and/or buildings). Would be interesting to know if other tried 'inductive toploading' and what their results were. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8023 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2000 10:51:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jan 2000 10:51:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127cDi-0008Fc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 10:38:42 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127cDh-0008FW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 10:38:41 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA144452 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:38:38 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000110123701.3057da9a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 12:37:01 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: weekend report 7-9 january 2000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: 'Highlight' of the weekend was without any doubt the appearance of OE5ODL with a very good signal. My thanks to Dick (PA0SE) and Geri (DK8KW) for the signalstrength measurements, this helps a lot of OM to check the improvements they made. Station seen in QRSS : G3CHH (M) Stations heard in CW : I5MXX (539), G0MIN (579), DJ9IE (579), PA0LEG (589), G4GVC (569), OE5ODL (559), PA0SE (589), DK8KW (559), PA2NJN (539), G6RO (529), ON6ND (599), G3YXM (589), GI3PDN (539), G3XTZ (579), G3BDQ (549), PA0BWL (579), G8RW (529), DK5PT (559), DK9DX (579), G3LDO (569), DJ6FU (539), IK5ZPV (539), PA0KDM (529), G3XDV (549), G3KEV (569), DL3FDO (559), OH3LYG (549) Stations worked : OE5ODL (DXCC nr. 16), G4GVC, GI3PDN (DXCC nr. 17), DJ9IE 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14266 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2000 11:35:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jan 2000 11:35:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127cvI-00002v-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:23:44 +0000 Received: from cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.173]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127cvG-00002q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:23:42 +0000 Received: from modem-216.name65.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.192.216] helo=lvm) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.12 #0) id 127cv9-00005t-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:23:36 +0000 Message-ID: <000201bf5b5d$182c3620$d8c0883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: LF Loops etc. Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:19:37 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Re. the ongoing discussion about loops. I agree that loops are very inefficient,not surprising since the radiation resistance is so low for a neccessarily very small loop on 136.(even a single turn loop several hundred feet long is far short of a wavelength)And of course the DC resistance cannot be made anywhere near low  enough.HOWEVER for recieve purposes where the ant signal far exceeds reciever noise the loops directional properties can be used to good effect.Both single and multi-turn loops exhibit a "fig of 8" pattern with very deep nulls on the side,  or if configured as an EWE the pattern can be cardoid giving some gain in the favoured direction and some b/front. Grounded bi-poles as described earlier are single turn loops using ground as one leg of the loop.No doubt the grounding helps with local noise/static etc. but by putting a resistor in one leg the "fig8" pattern can be made into a cardoid. I am using a grounded loop here to reject the Loran station in France (only 150 Km from this QTH) with very great success.
In conclusion I would not use a loop for transmitting ! but dont forget its valuable properties as a recieving antenna. 73s Laurie. 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12088 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2000 12:07:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jan 2000 12:07:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127dTZ-0000LK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:59:09 +0000 Received: from praseodumium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127dTY-0000LF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:59:09 +0000 Received: from [213.1.166.81] (helo=default) by praseodumium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 127dTP-0000PB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:59:00 +0000 Message-ID: <000501bf5b61$9af0f060$51a601d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots on GB7DXM for 8/9th Jan Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:52:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: No listening from here on Saturday Sunday 9th 0550-0630z vy strong QRS CQ from G3LDO even though not in a favourable direction on my loop 0630z G0MRF called by DK8KW both 'O' here (gave 'O' and 'M') Dave was not as strong as I have come to expect him.....Maybe he doesn't light so many candles for QRS. Further unanswered CQs from G3LDO (0740z), G0MRF (0840z), G3XDV (0900z, 1224z) not as strong as Peter but stronger than I have heard Mike before....only a couple of dB behind Peter, who is now tying with Graham as my strongest amateur stations on QRS. CQ from DK8KW at 0930z. Hand speed morse signals heard (1120z -1230z) from PA0BWL,G3XTZ,G4GVC,G3KEV, G6RO and DJ9IE, who was called by Mal at 1230, but no qso. This is quite a remakable signal as I understand that DJ9IE only runs about 9 watts, and yet he was an R5 signal (just) here for that short period at least. Below are the spots from the GB7DXM Cluster, much more activity this weekend, and one or two new (to me) call-signs appearing. And its nice to see Toni back with his 'Chaos' antenna obviously working ok. 137.3 DK5PT 9-Jan-2000 1113Z 439 137.2 G3XTZ 9-Jan-2000 1101Z 339 136.7 G3KEV 9-Jan-2000 1019Z 449 136.5 G4GVC 9-Jan-2000 1003Z 329 136.2 HB9ASB 8-Jan-2000 2120Z 549 137.2 DJ9IE 8-Jan-2000 2044Z 539 136.7 IK5ZPV 8-Jan-2000 2041Z 449 136.6 DJ6FU 8-Jan-2000 1432Z cq 339 136.5 DK6NI 8-Jan-2000 1407Z cq 559 136.6 OE5ODL 8-Jan-2000 0838Z calling cq... 137.3 IK5ZPV 7-Jan-2000 2150Z 449 136.6 OE5ODL 7-Jan-2000 1643Z cq cq 136.6 ON6ND 7-Jan-2000 1624Z 449 in jn48wl 136.8 OE5ODL 7-Jan-2000 1110Z 559 in jn48wl 136.5 DK7KO 3-Jan-2000 2036Z Peter / JO31 G3NYK de GB7DXM 10-Jan 1121Z > 1800.0 DK8KW 8-Jan-2000 1026Z 137 Khz Good sigs 1800.0 DL3FDO 8-Jan-2000 1025Z 137 Khz 1800.0 OE5ODL 7-Jan-2000 1201Z CQing 136.7kHz 1800.0 OE5ODL 7-Jan-2000 1106Z CQing on 136.5kHz G3NYK de GB7DXM 10-Jan 1124Z > 73 de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19242 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2000 12:08:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jan 2000 12:08:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127dUW-0000Ly-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 12:00:08 +0000 Received: from hermes.iol.cz ([194.228.2.36]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127dUV-0000LW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 12:00:07 +0000 Received: from dell1.GMC.NET ([194.228.133.52]) by hermes.iol.cz (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 631-64078U55000L55000S0V35) with ESMTP id cz for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 12:59:09 +0100 Received: from p (P.MALY [192.168.1.35]) by dell1.GMC.NET with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id Z7XXN2C1; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 12:59:57 +0100 Message-ID: <005e01bf5b62$36c3fdc0$2301a8c0@maly.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: "136 group" Subject: LF: Sound cards/Spectrogram Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 12:59:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all, I don't think that the problem with Spectrogram is Windows resources (or RAM) related. I run Spectrogram quite reliably on 486/66 with 12 MB RAM. I use SB AWE 64. I have never experienced any of the problems mentioned here. 73! Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16682 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2000 12:58:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jan 2000 12:58:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127e1G-0000aQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 12:33:58 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from gateg.kw.bbc.co.uk ([132.185.132.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127e1F-0000aL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 12:33:58 +0000 Received: from sunf0.rd.bbc.co.uk (ddmailgate.rd.bbc.co.uk [132.185.128.104]) by gateg.kw.bbc.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA15952 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 12:33:55 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from pc523 by sunf0.rd.bbc.co.uk; Mon, 10 Jan 00 12:33:54 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000110123351.009cfa10@sunf0> X-Sender: simonlh@sunf0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 12:33:51 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Simon Lloyd-Hughes" Subject: Re: LF: Sound cards/Spectrogram In-reply-to: <005e01bf5b62$36c3fdc0$2301a8c0@maly.gmc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Has anyone tried a Soundblaster 32AWE? At 12:59 10/01/00 +0100, you wrote: >Hello all, >I don't think that the problem with Spectrogram is Windows resources (or >RAM) related. I run Spectrogram quite reliably on 486/66 with 12 MB RAM. I >use SB AWE 64. I have never experienced any of the problems mentioned here. > >73! Petr, OK1FIG > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________ Email: simon.lloyd-hughes@rd.bbc.co.uk BBC Transmission Management Group Tel: Internal 39692 B201 External 01737 839692 Kingswood Warren Mobile 0589 151485 FAX: 01737 836555 ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2193 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2000 14:58:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jan 2000 14:58:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127g4H-0001Uy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 14:45:13 +0000 Received: from ulexite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127g4E-0001Ut-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 14:45:10 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust89.tnt4.rtm1.nl.uu.net [212.153.212.89]) by ulexite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 9133CFAF93; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 13:44:43 -0100 (GMT) Message-ID: <006301bf5b79$bff5f140$59d499d4@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Cc: "Pieter Bruinsma, PA0PHB" , "Koos Fockens, PA0KDF" , "Koos Fockens, PA0KDF" , "Jan Martin Noding, LA8AK" , "Jaap Kroon, PA0IF" , "Hans Peltzer" , "Ger van Went, PA0GER" Subject: LF: Results of signals measured Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 15:44:02 +0100 Organization: Freeler MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE
 
Here are the results of my signal measurements during the weekend
 
Time Call        Field strength  Input RX   S-report Remark
UTC              dB(uV)/m        dBm 
 
                    Friday January 7 
 
2328  CFH? (137 kHz RTTY)   27          -70        S9 + 3 dB
 
2329  Greek RTTY            34          -63        S9 + 10 dB
 
2334  DCF139                73          -24        S9 + 49 dB
 
                       Saturday January 8    
 
0504  CFH? (137 kHz RTTY)   27          -70        S9 + 3 dB
 
0508  Greek RTTY            32          -65        S9 + 8 dB
 
0512  DCF139                65          -32        S9 + 41 dB
 
0748  DCF139                63          -34        S9 + 39 dB
 
0820  PA0LEG                26          -71        S9 + 2 dB
 
0827  G4GVC                 13          -84        S7 + 1 dB
 
0830  CFH? (137 kHz RTTY)   11          -86        S6 + 5 dB
 
0841  OE5ODL                -3         -100        S4 + 3 dB
 
0906  ON7YD                 17          -80        S7 + 5 dB
 
0911  Greek RTTY            15          -82        S7 + 3 dB
 
0913  DCF139                66          -31        S9 + 42 dB  
 
0943  G6RO                  -3         -100         S4 + 3 dB
 
0948  ON6ND                 28          -69        S9 + 4 dB 
 
0958  DK8KW                 12          -85         S7
 
1024  DL3FDO                 6          -91         S6
 
1034  PA0BWL                23          -74         S8 + 5 dB
 
1045  G3OLB                  6          -91         S6
 
1140  DCF139                64          -33         S9 + 40dB
 
1218  DK5PU                  7          -90         S6 + 1 dB
 
1238  G3AQC                  8          -89         S6 + 2 dB
 
1250  Greek RTTY            15          -82         S7 + 3 dB
 
1254  G3XTZ                 19          -78         S8 + 1 dB
 
1315  G3YXM                 17          -80         S7 + 5 dB
 
1320  G3YXM                 16          -81         S7 + 4 dB    1
 
1358  DF9IE                  7          -90         S6 + 1 dB
 
1436  DJ6FU                 12          -85         S7
 
                        Sunday January 9  
 
0824   CFH? (137 kHz RTTY)               20                    -77                   S8 + 2 dB
 
0826   Greek RTTY                              19                   -78                    S8 + 1 dB
 
0828    DCF139                                   65                   -32                    S9 + 41 dB
 
0841    G4GVC                                    13                  -84                     S7 + 1 dB
 
0858    ON7YD                                     19                 -78                     S8 + 1 dB
 
0915    GI3PDN                                      -                     -                      S3 (by ear)     2
 
1018    G3KEV                                     20                  -77                     S8 + 2 dB
 
1023    G3YXM                                     15                  -82                     S7 + 3 dB
 
1028    Greek RTTY                              24                  -73                      S9
 
1029    DCF139                                    64                  -33                      S9 + 40 dB
 
1058    DJ9IE                                       19                  -78                      S8 + 1 dB
 
1100    G3XDV                                       9                  -88                      S6 + 3 dB
 
1110    PA0BWL                                   24                 -73                      S9
 
 
                             Remarks
 
1. After Dave had lowered the centre of his aerial from about 18 metres to 15 metres.
 
2. Report by ear:sent RST339; received RST 459. Ray was too deep in the noise for measuring.
GI3PDN is my 64th station and GI is my 12th country.
 
                    Method of measurement
 
I could not use my Wandel & Goltermann PSM-5 selective level meter. The needle jumps around too wildly for a proper reading on CW (and they call CW Continuous Wave ...). Also its selectivity is not sufficient.
 
Instead I applied a substitution method.
The receiver is a Teletron LWF45.The output goes to a passive audio filter; its bandwidth is 35 Hz on CW and 200 Hz on RTTY. The output from the filter is fed to ex-WW II headphones type DLR 5 and to the Y-input of an oscilloscope. The deflection is adjusted to a suitable value by means of the manual gain control of the receiver (which has no AGC), being careful not to overload the RX. Next a HP signal generator type 604B is substituted for the aerial, tuned in for maximum signal and its output level adjusted for the same deflection on the scope as produced by the received signal. The signal strength in dBm is then read from the signal generator.
 
I did use the selective level meter on the carrier of DCF139 between bursts of data. The result was exactly the same as found by the substitution method. A useful cross check.
 
I measured the signal strength of DCF139 with my home made field strength meter in an open field near to our house where there no underground cables, pipelines or other disturbing objects. I measured 
1.66 mV/m, or 64 dB(uV). The input to the receiver at that moment was
-33 dBm. So the field strength in dB(uV)/m can be found by adding
(64 + 33) = 97 dB to the input of the receiver in dBm.
 
For the S-report I applied the IARU recommendation: S9 = -73 dBm and
1 S-point = 6 dB. I used the expression (S + dB) also below S9 to avoid loss of information due to rounding.
 
A description of my home made field strength meter and its calibration can be found at www.picks.f9.co.uk/pa0se/htm or www.lwca.org/library/global/pa0se/fsm.htm.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
 
JO22GD
D.W. Rollema
V.d. Marckstraat 5
2352 RA Leiderdorp
The Netherlands
Tel. +31 71 589 27 34
or
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13639 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2000 15:39:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jan 2000 15:39:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127gnx-0001qg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 15:32:25 +0000 Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127gnw-0001qb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 15:32:24 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 127glV-0005HH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 15:29:53 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <1599.200001101536@gemini> From: "James Moritz" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 14:54:12 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: M0BMU - QRV on 73kHz X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, I have now finished my 73kHz loading coil, and some preliminary tests last night seem to show that it works OK. The set-up is basically the same as that for 136k, except that the antenna current on 73k is about 1 amp. I intend to give it a try between about 7.30 and 8.30 this evening, on about 72.3kHz +/- QRM. Any reports would be more than welcome. At the moment, I only have equipment for manual CW. My E-mail address is J.R.Moritz@herts.ac.uk - it usually works OK, but sometimes people fiddle with the server, or it crashes during the weekend, which may be the cause of bouncing e-mails. The server is at the university of Hertfordshire, where I work, so I only have access during the working day. I have received mail direct from G3NYK, G3ZRH, and G3XDV, but none yet from G0MRF. In the evenings I can also be contacted on 01707 643461. Cheers, Jim 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23947 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2000 16:30:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jan 2000 16:30:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127hY4-0002IZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 16:20:04 +0000 Received: from hermes.iol.cz ([194.228.2.36]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127hY3-0002I3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 16:20:04 +0000 Received: from dell1.GMC.NET ([194.228.133.58]) by hermes.iol.cz (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 631-64078U55000L55000S0V35) with ESMTP id cz for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 17:19:08 +0100 Received: from p (P.MALY [192.168.1.35]) by dell1.GMC.NET with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id Z7XXN2D2; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 17:19:53 +0100 Message-ID: <03ee01bf5b86$87598740$2301a8c0@maly.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: "136 group" Subject: LF: Bad experience with loop ant Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 17:19:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LowFers. I have made loop ant for rx and it seems not to work satisfactorily. Size is 1.75m x 1.75m. Everything is done as usual, with grounded middle and amplifier with 2 x BF245, tuned properly, etc. Output level from the amplifier is high enough. I can hear Greek RTTY, also galloping horses a little, but no poor HAM sigs. My LW 40m, that is in average height of about 6 m only, is much better. The only thing I am in doubt is the number of turns. It has got only 18 turns (I used flat cable that was available at the moment). Could this be reason for the bad results? What are your experiencies with loop ant? Can loop ant be as good as "big" Marconi? 73! Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3059 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2000 17:37:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jan 2000 17:37:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127ibv-0002ro-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 17:28:07 +0000 Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127ibu-0002rj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 17:28:06 +0000 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #35) id 127ibT-00051O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 17:27:40 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 17:25:06 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 17:25:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Thanks Dick X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: My thanks to Dick, PAoSE, for his very useful comparitive signal strength measurements. These will be even more useful if repeated from time to time to see what long-term improvements have been made. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2254 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2000 17:40:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jan 2000 17:40:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127ib4-0002rd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 17:27:14 +0000 Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127ib1-0002rY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 17:27:12 +0000 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #35) id 127iaa-0004x2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 17:26:44 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 17:22:17 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 17:22:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Weekend report 8/9 Jan X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At last, I have managed to get back on the air after a break of several weeks. My trip to GW was very pleasant but I did not operate the radio at all.

Interesting weekend with fairly high local noise - all those brand new computer games - but good conditions.

Saturday 8 January 00
Conditions good: CFH heard at 599 during the night.
Heard DK8KW (339); ON6ND (589); GI3PDN (569 QSB); G3AQC (569); G3BDQ (599); PA0BWL (539); G0MRF (589); G3YXM (599); G3XTZ (5 9+10 9); G3LDO (599); DK5PT (339); and a new one for me DK9DX (559).
Worked G3OLB (599/599) for the first time at his new QTH.

Sunday 9 January 00
Conditions excellent: Greek RTTY over S8 until 1200.
Heard GI3PDN (559 QSB); G4GVC (599); G6RO (569); G3KEV (599); G3XTZ (5 9+10 9); GB2CPM (599); G3YXM (599); ON7YD (559); I5MXX (219); and two new ones for me G8PX (569) and DJ6 FU (349).
Saw on Spectrogram screen, QRSs from DJ2LF ('M').
Worked DJ9IE for a new one (gave 559, got 339). He was running just 9W from an EL84 valve! 



Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT)
http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 10441 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2000 18:22:28 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jan 2000 18:22:28 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127jKQ-0003Dl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 18:14:06 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127jKP-0003Df-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 18:14:05 +0000
Received: from [195.44.216.59] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127jKK-0006ja-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 18:14:01 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <387A8784.73D3362@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 17:29:40 -0800
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "rsgb" 
Subject: LF: CFH
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hi All.
CFH acty observed today 10-01-2000- 137 khz
Switched on at 0830 utc  hrd CFH  S7
                        0930                       S5
                        1050                       S2
                        1000                       S1
                        1200                       S1
                        1240                       GONE
While the signal is a good propogation guide across the atlantic it
could also be a qrm problem especially those at the Canadian/USA side
trying to listen for EU activity. Maybe it could be shifted up in freq
to 138 khz or higher !!!
73 de Mal/G3KEV






From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 20870 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2000 19:07:40 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jan 2000 19:07:40 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127jzQ-0003TL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 18:56:28 +0000
Received: from kuku-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.63] helo=kuku.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127jzO-0003ST-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 18:56:26 +0000
Received: from almond.excite.com ([199.172.148.82]) by fortune.excite.com         (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with SMTP         id <20000110185058.GTEI3107.fortune.excite.com@almond.excite.com>         for ;         Mon, 10 Jan 2000 10:50:58 -0800
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <32625751.947530258028.JavaMail.imail@almond.excite.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 10:50:58 -0800 (PST)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
From: "john sexton" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Bad experience with loop ant
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Mailer: Excite Inbox
X-Sender-Ip: 213.1.42.5
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hi Petr,
I have very good results with G3LNP loop described in July 1999 RADCOM. I
have since removed the second loop since I have no strong local signal. The
receiver is a AOR7030. It is now orientated East-West, so that I can hear
the continental signals. Previously was North-South, which was good for UK
but bad for europe. The UK stations are sufficiently strong that I still
hear them well, unless they are right in the null. G4GVC and G3KEV are near
the null, but still received OK, although obviously weaker than before.
I built the loop exactly according to the instructions and have now
duck-taped it to a 3 metre plastic pipe and covered all of the sensitive
parts with close fitting plastic sheet and greenhouse repair tape to keep it
waterproof, while still letting the wind through and it works a treat.
Regards, John, G4CNN





_______________________________________________________
Visit Excite Shopping at http://shopping.excite.com 
 The fastest way to find your Holiday gift this season



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 28916 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2000 19:48:05 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jan 2000 19:48:05 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127kfB-0003sE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 19:39:37 +0000
Received: from mta00.talk21.com ([62.172.192.40] helo=t21mta00-app.talk21.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127kfA-0003s8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 19:39:36 +0000
Received: from dave ([213.1.54.155]) by t21mta00-app.talk21.com         (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP         id <20000110193732.WAGL26117.t21mta00-app.talk21.com@dave>         for ;         Mon, 10 Jan 2000 19:37:32 +0000
Message-ID: <002101bf5ba2$582ae920$9b3601d5@dave>
From: "Dave Sergeant" 
To: "rsgb_lf_group" 
Subject: LF: Loops
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 19:09:38 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

>From Dave G3YMC

G3KEV suggests that loops are very inferior to verticals on 136.  He may be
right, but experience here is not as pessimistic as he would suggest.

I use a loop as a means of getting a signal out on 136 from a QTH which many
would view as hopeless.  As well as being small, the ground is mainly sand
and has a very high loss resistance.  Experience of verticals on 160 and 80
has been most disappointing because of this, and although I have not yet
tried a vertical here I would expect it to be similarly disappointing.

The loop certainly offers the means to get a signal out on the band from a
small plot, and offers an antenna largely independent of ground effects - it
is also relatively unaffected by rain and other elements unlike verticals
and Marconis.  Yes with the power I currently run it is by no means a DX
antenna (and I suspect as Mal says that the low angle radiation pickup is
minimal) but it allows me to have QSOs over a very satisfactory distance.  I
can also receive a fair modicum of DX - OE5ODL, HB9ASB (579), OK1FIG, and
have had an excellent listener report from F6CNI.

The only station I know who uses both a loop and vertical regularly is Steve
GW4ALG.  Steve admittedly runs more power than me, but has worked quite a
lot of Eu DX on his loop.  Signals from him here are certainly stronger on
his vertical, but by no more than a couple of S points, and that can hardly
be classed as an enormous difference.

It is also a little unfair to say that stations with poorer set ups rely on
the station at the other end to 'make up' by having a better set up.  I have
worked quite a few stations in a similar situation than myself, in
particular Des M0AYF.  Des's garden is not that much bigger than mine, and
he was running less power than me (30W) into a small vertical - there was no
big station effect in my QSO with Des.

The type of loop used by Andre at the beacon however, where the return path
is via the ground conections, is likely to be lossy if treated as a loop and
hence probably cannot be directly compared.  But even that has been heard
over 400 miles!

We need to put loops into perspective therefore - OK they are never going to
be band leaders, but they have offered stations like me, who for various
reasons cannot put up large antennas, at least to get on the band and share
in the activity.  They deserve rather more attention than Mal is suggesting.

73s Dave G3YMC
dsergeant@iee.org
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 4305 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2000 20:09:26 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jan 2000 20:09:26 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127kz2-0004RL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 20:00:08 +0000
Received: from hugo.fen.baynet.de ([194.95.193.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127kyy-0004RG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 20:00:04 +0000
Received: from 194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de (dialin-nbg-186.fen.baynet.de [195.37.215.66]) by hugo.fen.baynet.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA04998 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 20:56:15 +0100 (MET)
Message-ID: <000e01bf5ba5$6bc57f60$60d725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de>
From: "Walter Staubach" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Re: Bad experience with loop ant
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 21:00:06 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by hugo.fen.baynet.de id UAA04998
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hello, Petr,
about your loop: I think your 18 turns with size 1,75 x 1,75m are enough. My
portable loop has 24 turns size 0.6 x 0.6m, made from telephone cable
(should have 30 to 40). Is your loop tuned by a good variable capacitor
("steam-radio"-type,hi) and has a sharp maximum at 137KHz? The signal
strength from the loop normally is much lower than from the longwire, but so
is the noise,too. Therefore with the loop you should hear most of the
stations you receive with the longwire, too. I even do that with my small
one. What happens when you disconnect the middle from earth? After realizing
my loop I found out, that the capacity of the loop itself between the turns
was already 800pF. That generates losses. Do you know that capacity in your
loop? Maybe your flat cable will be better than my telephone cable. My loop
is coupled with 2 turns to a lf-converter (SO42P) without preamplifier. It
does a good job, but with low signal strength. Your last question: My
experience is, normally not. But in case of noise problems it sometimes can
be even better than the Marconi.
Hope you find the bug.          73 Walter DJ2LF

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Petr Maly 
An: 136 group 
Datum: Montag, 10. Januar 2000 17:50
Betreff: LF: Bad experience with loop ant


>Hello LowFers.
>
>I have made loop ant for rx and it seems not to work satisfactorily. Size
is
>1.75m x 1.75m. Everything is done as usual, with grounded middle and
>amplifier with 2 x BF245, tuned properly, etc. Output level from the
>amplifier is high enough. I can hear Greek RTTY, also galloping horses a
>little, but no poor HAM sigs. My LW 40m, that is in average height of about
>6 m only, is much better. The only thing I am in doubt is the number of
>turns. It has got only 18 turns (I used flat cable that was available at
the
>moment). Could this be reason for the bad results? What are your
>experiencies with loop ant? Can loop ant be as good as "big" Marconi?
>
>73! Petr, OK1FIG
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 29279 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2000 21:44:21 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jan 2000 21:44:21 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127mVz-0005Bj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 21:38:15 +0000
Received: from cask.force9.net ([195.166.128.29]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127mVy-0005Be-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 21:38:14 +0000
Received: (qmail 14284 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2000 21:37:11 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO main) (212.159.65.236) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 10 Jan 2000 21:37:11 -0000
Message-ID: <009f01bf5bb3$80275c40$0600a8c0@main>
From: "Dave" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
References: <1599.200001101536@gemini>
Subject: LF: Re: M0BMU -  QRV on 73kHz
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 20:23:39 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Jim,

I took a listen but Rugby on 73.3 was rattling away with its dirty
modulation. No chance unless you're S9.... unlikely!
Rugby usually goes QRT for maintenance on the first Tuesday of each month. I
think we'll have to wait until Feb 1st to try a QSO before work. Any good?

73, Dave G3YXM.
>
> I have now finished my 73kHz loading coil, and some preliminary
> tests last night seem to show that it works OK. The set-up is
> basically the same as that for 136k, except that the antenna
> current on 73k is about 1 amp.
>
> I intend to give it a try between about 7.30 and 8.30 this evening,
> on about 72.3kHz +/- QRM. Any reports would be more than
> welcome. At the moment, I only have equipment for manual CW.
>
> My E-mail address is J.R.Moritz@herts.ac.uk - it usually works OK,
> but sometimes people fiddle with  the server, or it crashes during
> the weekend, which may be the cause of bouncing e-mails. The
> server is at the university of Hertfordshire, where I work, so I only
> have access during the working day. I have received mail direct
> from G3NYK, G3ZRH, and G3XDV, but none yet from G0MRF. In
> the evenings I can also be contacted on 01707 643461.
>
> Cheers, Jim
> 73 de M0BMU
>
>
>



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 23153 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2000 00:03:43 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jan 2000 00:03:43 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127odx-000691-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 23:54:37 +0000
Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.69]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127odw-00068t-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 23:54:36 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id l.49.49470ac9 (4447) for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 18:53:58 -0500 (EST)
From: G0MRF@aol.com
Message-ID: <49.49470ac9.25abcb16@aol.com>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 18:53:58 EST
Subject: Re: LF: Sound cards/Spectrogram
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 137
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Thank you to everyone who has offered suggestions about my spectrogram 
problems.

The fault has been identified as the built in soundcard on the P2 motherboard.
"As much use as a chocolate teapot"   summed it up very well.

So the choices are. 
Buy a decent soundcard
Find a programme which will run on the existing card
Motorola 56000 DSP kit  ( millihertz resolution)
or, stick with the spectrogram 11k settings.

Well, at least I know the choices now, so I'm off to download a beta version 
of Spectran.

Thanks all


David    G0MRF


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 11508 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2000 03:31:16 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jan 2000 03:31:16 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127rn3-0007gE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 03:16:13 +0000
Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127rn1-0007g1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 03:16:12 +0000
Received: from [203.96.105.224] by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz         (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP         id <20000111032307.WEHY6460852.mta1-rme@[203.96.105.224]>         for ;         Tue, 11 Jan 2000 16:23:07 +1300
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <387A9EF6.3C88@xtra.co.nz>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 16:09:42 +1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
From: "vernall" 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA  (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Bad experience with loop ant
References: <03ee01bf5b86$87598740$2301a8c0@maly.gmc.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Petr Maly wrote:
> 
> Hello LowFers.
> 
> I have made loop ant for rx and it seems not to work satisfactorily. Size is
> 1.75m x 1.75m. Everything is done as usual, with grounded middle and
> amplifier with 2 x BF245, tuned properly, etc. Output level from the
> amplifier is high enough. I can hear Greek RTTY, also galloping horses a
> little, but no poor HAM sigs. My LW 40m, that is in average height of about
> 6 m only, is much better. The only thing I am in doubt is the number of
> turns. It has got only 18 turns (I used flat cable that was available at the
> moment). Could this be reason for the bad results? What are your
> experiencies with loop ant? Can loop ant be as good as "big" Marconi?
> 
> 73! Petr, OK1FIG

I also had a bad experience trying to use "computer ribbon" for the loop
winding.  The loop did not perform as hoped for (did not result in
external QRN being the dominant background noise).  I found there is
high capacitance between conductors, which is not good for high Q use
when terminated as as a "multi-turn coil".  The PVC insulation may also
be lossy at LF.  Whatever, it did not work as a high Q construction
technique for a frame loop receiving antenna.

Regarding the number of turns, that is another matter, as the basic
parameter is the loop aperture.  Number of turns is more to do with
internal impedance matching than collecting signal power.

73, Bob ZL2CA




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 29898 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2000 05:26:26 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jan 2000 05:26:26 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127tfJ-00001b-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 05:16:21 +0000
Received: from panchito.austria.eu.net ([193.154.160.103]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127tfI-00001W-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 05:16:20 +0000
Received: from qsl.net (dialup220.ap01-ried.at.eu.net [193.154.148.220]) by panchito.Austria.EU.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09118 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 06:16:08 +0100 (MET)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <387ABC73.EB1AE1BB@qsl.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 06:15:31 +0100
From: "Heinz Schnait" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-NECCK  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: de, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Bad experience with loop ant
References: <000e01bf5ba5$6bc57f60$60d725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hello all,

Walter Staubach wrote:

> ....After realizing
> my loop I found out, that the capacity of the loop itself between the turns
> was already 800pF. That generates losses. Do you know that capacity in your
> loop?

How can one measure the capacitance of the loop itself? Any suggestions?

73 Heinz, OE5EEP






From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 3901 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2000 07:52:42 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jan 2000 07:52:42 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127vyN-00010o-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:44:11 +0000
Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127vyL-0000wF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:44:09 +0000
Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.53) with SMTP id 06957900 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 02:43:54 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <387C06F2.9CA21DF8@phonakcom.ch>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 20:45:38 -0800
From: "Toni Baertschi" 
Organization: Phonak Communications AG
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: M0BMU -  QRV on 73kHz
References: <1599.200001101536@gemini>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Loop-Detect: 1
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

>>From HB9ASB, JN36pt

I could observe a faint signal on 72,262 on Spectogram during this time.
Have you been QRV and what was the exact frequency? Down here I have no
QRM from Rugby.

73 de Toni

James Moritz wrote:

> Dear LF Group,
>
> I have now finished my 73kHz loading coil, and some preliminary
> tests last night seem to show that it works OK. The set-up is
> basically the same as that for 136k, except that the antenna
> current on 73k is about 1 amp.
>
> I intend to give it a try between about 7.30 and 8.30 this evening,
> on about 72.3kHz +/- QRM. Any reports would be more than
> welcome. At the moment, I only have equipment for manual CW.
>
> My E-mail address is J.R.Moritz@herts.ac.uk - it usually works OK,
> but sometimes people fiddle with  the server, or it crashes during
> the weekend, which may be the cause of bouncing e-mails. The
> server is at the university of Hertfordshire, where I work, so I only
> have access during the working day. I have received mail direct
> from G3NYK, G3ZRH, and G3XDV, but none yet from G0MRF. In
> the evenings I can also be contacted on 01707 643461.
>
> Cheers, Jim
> 73 de M0BMU



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 10182 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2000 08:44:49 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jan 2000 08:44:49 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127wml-0001Km-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 08:36:15 +0000
Received: from artemis.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.126]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127wmk-0001Kh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 08:36:14 +0000
Received: from pc171.geog.le.ac.uk ([143.210.25.171] helo=kate) by artemis.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.03 #1) id 127wmh-0005Mv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 08:36:11 +0000
From: "kate moore" 
To: "lfgroup" 
Subject: LF: Brief update
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 08:33:03 -0000
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Importance: Normal
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Two new stations worked here on Saturday 8/1; OE5ODL and DL9IE, providing
my 18th country and 90th callsign respectively worked 2-way on 136kHz using
normal CW.

Had an excellent contact with HB9ASB last night (Mon), swapping 579 reports.
The "Chaos Antenna" seems to be working as well as the old one, Toni!
Well done and and it's great to hear you back on the band.


         Regards  John G4GVC near Leicester, IO92JP

    **  TX: Synth + 400W RF from modified 'G3YXM' Mosfet PA           **
    **  RX: TS-850S with 3 x CW filters and 0.5ppm TCXO               **
    **  Ant: Inv-L 60m long, 6m high at feed end, 12m high at far end **



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 22620 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2000 08:51:29 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jan 2000 08:51:29 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127wvO-0001R2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 08:45:10 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127wvN-0001Qx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 08:45:09 +0000
Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA124514 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 09:45:06 +0100
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000111104327.2ed7c288@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be>
X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:43:27
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Rik Strobbe" 
Subject: Re: LF: Bad experience with loop ant
In-reply-to: <03ee01bf5b86$87598740$2301a8c0@maly.gmc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

I tried to make a loop with flatcable once and was not very happy with the
result either. Maybe the rather large stray-capacitance between the
windings is decreasing the loop performance ? Replacing the flatcable by
0.7mm emailled Cu-wire (all windings spaced +/- 5mm) was working much better.
But at the end I came to the conclusion that the loop was no better than my
vertical (but also no worse), because I have little or no problems with
'electric smog' at my QTH.
But for those with rather high noiselevels and/or limited space a loop may
be the best receiving antenna.

73, Rik ON7YD

At 17:19 10/01/00 +0100, OK1FIG wrote:
>Hello LowFers.
>
>I have made loop ant for rx and it seems not to work satisfactorily. Size is
>1.75m x 1.75m. Everything is done as usual, with grounded middle and
>amplifier with 2 x BF245, tuned properly, etc. Output level from the
>amplifier is high enough. I can hear Greek RTTY, also galloping horses a
>little, but no poor HAM sigs. My LW 40m, that is in average height of about
>6 m only, is much better. The only thing I am in doubt is the number of
>turns. It has got only 18 turns (I used flat cable that was available at the
>moment). Could this be reason for the bad results? What are your
>experiencies with loop ant? Can loop ant be as good as "big" Marconi?
>
>73! Petr, OK1FIG
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 2962 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2000 09:55:00 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jan 2000 09:55:00 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127xqo-0001pX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 09:44:30 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 127xqn-0001pS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 09:44:29 +0000
Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA89048 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:28:07 +0100
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000111112627.2d5f9c18@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be>
X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:26:27
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Rik Strobbe" 
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Bad experience with loop ant
In-reply-to: <387ABC73.EB1AE1BB@qsl.net>
References: <000e01bf5ba5$6bc57f60$60d725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

At 06:15 11/01/00 +0100, you wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>Walter Staubach wrote:
>
>> ....After realizing
>> my loop I found out, that the capacity of the loop itself between the turns
>> was already 800pF. That generates losses. Do you know that capacity in your
>> loop?
>
>How can one measure the capacitance of the loop itself? Any suggestions?
>
>73 Heinz, OE5EEP

By searching the 'self resonant frequency' of the loop :

1. use the loop without any external capasitors and look for the resonance
frequency (F1)
2. add a external capacitor (Cext) and look for the resonance frequency (F2)

The loop capacitance (Cint) can be calculated based on following formulas :

F1 = 1/(2*Pi*Sqrt(Cint*L)) and F2 = 1/(2*Pi*Sqrt((Cint+Cext)*L))
(where Pi = 3.1415... and Sqrt = square root)
This will lead you to 

Cint = Cext * (F2*F2/(F2*F2-F1*F1))

73, Rik  ON7YD



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 3793 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2000 12:08:48 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jan 2000 12:08:48 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12800F-0002ty-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 12:02:23 +0000
Received: from hugo.fen.baynet.de ([194.95.193.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12800D-0002tr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 12:02:22 +0000
Received: from 194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de (dialin-nbg-125.fen.baynet.de [195.37.215.5]) by hugo.fen.baynet.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA15553 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 12:58:28 +0100 (MET)
Message-ID: <001e01bf5c2b$d6e76020$05d725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de>
From: "Walter Staubach" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Re: Bad experience with loop ant
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:02:17 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by hugo.fen.baynet.de id MAA15553
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hallo Petr,
  this morning I compared my L-antenne (6x25m, up 8 to 10m) with the
portable loop (24 turns, 0.6 x 0.6m) by receiving the "big gun" on 128.930
MHz (exact?). Both were carefully tuned to that frequency.
        L-antenna:  30,0mV
        Loop         :     0,25mV                     both at 50ohm
Maybe you can make a comparison like this?      73 Walter   JN59NO


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Petr Maly 
An: 136 group 
Datum: Montag, 10. Januar 2000 17:50
Betreff: LF: Bad experience with loop ant


>Hello LowFers.
>
>I have made loop ant for rx and it seems not to work satisfactorily. Size
is
>1.75m x 1.75m. Everything is done as usual, with grounded middle and
>amplifier with 2 x BF245, tuned properly, etc. Output level from the
>amplifier is high enough. I can hear Greek RTTY, also galloping horses a
>little, but no poor HAM sigs. My LW 40m, that is in average height of about
>6 m only, is much better. The only thing I am in doubt is the number of
>turns. It has got only 18 turns (I used flat cable that was available at
the
>moment). Could this be reason for the bad results? What are your
>experiencies with loop ant? Can loop ant be as good as "big" Marconi?
>
>73! Petr, OK1FIG
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 17411 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2000 12:11:48 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jan 2000 12:11:48 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12800K-0002u4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 12:02:28 +0000
Received: from hugo.fen.baynet.de ([194.95.193.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12800E-0002to-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 12:02:24 +0000
Received: from 194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de (dialin-nbg-125.fen.baynet.de [195.37.215.5]) by hugo.fen.baynet.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA15543 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 12:58:25 +0100 (MET)
Message-ID: <001d01bf5c2b$d5655400$05d725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de>
From: "Walter Staubach" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Bad experience with loop ant
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 12:44:18 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by hugo.fen.baynet.de id MAA15543
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hallo Heinz,
  I did it the way Rik described. My big loop - 7 turns of line-wire, 6.3 by
6.3 meters - also has about 700pF only between the turns.
73 Walter

-----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Heinz Schnait 
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org 
Datum: Dienstag, 11. Januar 2000 06:44
Betreff: Re: LF: Re: Bad experience with loop ant


>Hello all,
>
>Walter Staubach wrote:
>
>> ....After realizing
>> my loop I found out, that the capacity of the loop itself between the
turns
>> was already 800pF. That generates losses. Do you know that capacity in
your
>> loop?
>
>How can one measure the capacitance of the loop itself? Any suggestions?
>
>73 Heinz, OE5EEP
>
>
>
>
>
>



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 19967 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2000 13:42:23 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jan 2000 13:42:23 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1281FE-0003TF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:21:56 +0000
Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1281FC-0003TA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:21:55 +0000
Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 1281CR-00061U-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:19:03 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <24521.200001111325@gemini>
From: "James Moritz" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: University of Hertfordshire
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:25:11 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: LF: 73kHz / Receiving Loops
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11)
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Dear LF Group,
	Thank you to everyone who listened out for my signal on 73kHz 
last night - I was very pleased to be able to work Mike, G3XDV 
with 559 reports both ways. Other reports have been negative so 
far; I'm afraid the signal Toni HB9ASB detected wasn't me - my 
frequency was close to 72.00kHz. I hope to try again shortly; I 
should be able to get my antenna a bit higher before then.

Regarding loops for LF reception, I was involved in some research 
work at University of Herts some while ago to develop loop 
antennas for LF EMC measurement purposes. We also tried using 
ribbon cable, and found the losses and stray capacitance to be 
very high - we put this down to the PVC insulation, and the 
extremely thin conductors of this type of cable. Almost any other 
type of wire is better; we had good results using the inner 
conductor and insulation of TV type semi-airspaced coax cable; the 
cellular polythene insulation keeps stray C down and has low 
losses, even with the wires tightly bundled together. You need 
quite a bit of coax, though!  Air-spaced windings are probably the 
best possible, but are less convenient mechanically.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 22682 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2000 13:59:20 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jan 2000 13:59:20 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1281fm-0003fu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:49:22 +0000
Received: from hermes.iol.cz ([194.228.2.36]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1281fj-0003ff-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:49:20 +0000
Received: from dell1.GMC.NET ([194.228.133.21]) by hermes.iol.cz         (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223         ID# 631-64078U55000L55000S0V35) with ESMTP id cz         for ;         Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:40:54 +0100
Received: from p (P.MALY [192.168.1.35]) by dell1.GMC.NET with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id CXJB0XQN; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:41:45 +0100
Message-ID: <009f01bf5c39$9a26f980$2301a8c0@maly.gmc.net>
From: "Petr Maly" 
To: "136 group" 
Subject: LF: Loop ant
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:41:39 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Thanks all for your responses.
I used a flat cable, but not the tiny one with 40 wires that is used for
connecting hard disks in computers. My cable is much thicker, it is about 40
mm wide with 18 wires only. Also, tuning is rather sharp which indicates
that Q is not so bad.
As soon as I go to the cottage I will take the loop with me to do another
tests.

Thanks all
73, Petr, OK1FIG






From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 2466 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2000 14:43:55 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jan 2000 14:43:55 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1282LH-00040C-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:32:15 +0000
Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1282LG-000406-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:32:14 +0000
Received: from [213.1.146.0] (helo=default) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 1282L8-0001dP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:32:07 +0000
Message-ID: <000201bf5c40$290acfe0$009201d5@default>
From: "Alan Melia" 
To: "rsgb_lf_group" 
Subject: LF: re 'GRAM and memory
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 12:10:33 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

I forgot to mention that on my K6-200, Gram has run 5.5k sampling with
24Mbyte of memory, and no crashes. I have since updated to 32Mbyte (I'm
still mean about it!)
73 de Alan G3NYK
Alan.Melia@btinternet.com




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 3518 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2000 14:48:33 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jan 2000 14:48:33 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1282Ru-00040x-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:39:06 +0000
Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1282Rs-00040r-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:39:05 +0000
Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 1282Ri-0001Uj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:38:55 +0000
Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:21:08 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
From: "Mike Dennison" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:21:06 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: LF: 73kHz QSO
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11)
X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq
Message-ID: 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

At 1920 last night, I had a successful contact on 72.0kHz with 
M0BMU. We exchanged 559 reports at a distance of 11km. The 
noise on the band is still very bad (my meter drops from 9 to 1 when 
I go from 72 to 70kHz, and from 74 to 76kHz).

This is Jim's first contact on the 73kHz band, and comes soon after 
his first QSOs on 136. He is to be congratulated for his early 
successes.

This brings my total on 73k to 4 two-way QSOs and 11 stations 
heard. Best DX is GD0MRF on QRSs at 400km. Jim was the first 
QSO below 100km!! Best CW QSO was G3YXM before noise level 
made such contacts impossible.

Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT)
http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 18592 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2000 15:59:50 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jan 2000 15:59:50 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1283RG-0004Rc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:42:30 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1283RD-0004RN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:42:28 +0000
X-Priority: 3
Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (userae71.uk.uudial.com [62.188.131.213]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26950 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:34:22 GMT
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000111153529.00a47d00@mail.pncl.co.uk>
X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:41:33 +0000
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Walter Blanchard" 
Subject: LF: Loops
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

If you're building a loop don't forget that a lot off turns side-by-side 
constitutes electrically another loop at right angles to the main one, much 
smaller perhaps but quite enough to knock the notch down from a possible 50 
dB to only 15-20 dB. For this reason flat "pancake" loops are better.
Walter G3JKV




Walter Blanchard
Phone and Fax 01306 884359
Dorking, Surrey
RH4 2AN



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 13776 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2000 20:03:36 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jan 2000 20:03:36 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1287GX-00068O-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 19:47:41 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1287GW-00068J-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 19:47:40 +0000
Received: from [195.44.217.103] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1287GT-000231-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 19:47:38 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <387BF921.4EF3E26B@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 19:46:41 -0800
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "rsgb" 
Subject: LF: CFH
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

To those interested
CFH  today 110100
This morning at 0900 S7 then it either switched off or disappeared until
I hrd it agn at 1530 about S5 and now at 1843 utc barely audible and it
is dark. The theory about daylight/night time propogation is flawed on
LF as observed at this qth.
I get the same propogation from CFH and the Greek rtty day and night but
there are some fluctiations which are attributed to absorption by the D
layer whether it be day or night. I also have heard OH1TN and IK5ZPV
stronger during daylight hours than night time.
With any propogation depending on D, E or F1 F2 there will be big
variations because of unstable ionization of the layers day or night.
Observations from others could be useful on long haul signal reception.

73 de  Mal/G3KEV





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 23506 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2000 21:16:32 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jan 2000 21:16:32 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1288Xw-0006d4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 21:09:44 +0000
Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1288Xv-0006cz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 21:09:43 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id VAA26670 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 21:09:41 GMT
X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Message-ID: <2000011120594668199@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 20:59:46 GMT
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Peter Dodd" 
X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836
Subject: Re: LF: Loops
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 
Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit


> If you're building a loop don't forget that a lot off turns side-by-side 
> constitutes electrically another loop at right angles to the main one, much 
> smaller perhaps but quite enough to knock the notch down from a possible 50 
> dB to only 15-20 dB. For this reason flat "pancake" loops are better.

Provided you are not too bothered about the deep nulls loop antennas 
with side-by-side windings are good for DX if they are over a metre 
in diameter. This construction (see the PA0SE design in the RSGB 
Communication Handbook and the G3LNP design in Radcom July 1999) 
allows the individual wires of the windings to be spaced to reduce 
the loop internal capacity and increase the Q.
In the early days of experimenting with 73kHz, G3XDV and I used 
ferrite loopsticks from transistor radios for with mobile receivers. 
While these antennas, even with an FET amplifier, are no good for DX 
they do have very sharp nulls.
Ferrite loop antennas can be used for DX. See the 160m design, using 
lots of ferrite, by Richard Q, Marris, G2BZQ, in the ARRL Antenna 
Compendium, Vol 6. Could this be modified for 136kHz?
Has any one seen, or even posses, one of the large flat slab ferrite 
DF loop antennas used in the RAF (circa 1960)? 
I can confirm that a 1.5m LF loop antenna made from computer multi 
colour ribbon performed badly.


-- 
Regards, Peter, G3LDO









From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 23888 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2000 21:18:21 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jan 2000 21:18:21 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1288YD-0006dY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 21:10:01 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from oso.slonet.org ([207.114.180.2] ident=cbuttsch) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1288YC-0006d6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 21:10:00 +0000
X-Priority: 3
Received: from localhost by oso.slonet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA11301; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:09:02 -0800 (PST)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:09:02 -0800 (PST)
From: "Clifford Buttschardt" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
To: "Heinz Schnait" 
Cc: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Bad experience with loop ant
In-reply-to: <387ABC73.EB1AE1BB@qsl.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Heinz...To measure the distributed capacitance of any inductor, make a
linear plot of resonanting capacitance on the horizontal axis and
frequency on the vertical.  Plot at least two resonanting frequencies,
more would produce an average.  Connect these points with a straight line.
Where the line intersects the capacitance axis is the residual capacitance.
Cliff K7RR


On Tue, 11 Jan 2000, Heinz Schnait wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> Walter Staubach wrote:
> 
> > ....After realizing
> > my loop I found out, that the capacity of the loop itself between the turns
> > was already 800pF. That generates losses. Do you know that capacity in your
> > loop?
> 
> How can one measure the capacitance of the loop itself? Any suggestions?
> 
> 73 Heinz, OE5EEP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 1516 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2000 00:08:24 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jan 2000 00:08:24 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128B4f-0007gk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 23:51:41 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128B4e-0007gf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 23:51:40 +0000
X-Priority: 3
Received: from pickmere.demon.co.uk ([158.152.117.143]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 128B4b-0005gt-0K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 23:51:38 +0000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: 
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 20:57:49 +0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "M.J.Powell" 
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Bad experience with loop ant
References: <000e01bf5ba5$6bc57f60$60d725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de><387ABC73.EB1AE1BB@qsl.net>
In-reply-to: <387ABC73.EB1AE1BB@qsl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

In message <387ABC73.EB1AE1BB@qsl.net>, Heinz Schnait 
writes
>Hello all,
>
>Walter Staubach wrote:
>
>> ....After realizing
>> my loop I found out, that the capacity of the loop itself between the turns
>> was already 800pF. That generates losses. Do you know that capacity in your
>> loop?
>
>How can one measure the capacitance of the loop itself? Any suggestions?

Measure the Inductance. L

Add a known C.

Measure resonant frequency.

Calculate what it should be from L and C.

Difference is due to C of loop!

Mike

-- 
M.J.Powell


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 23426 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2000 01:49:02 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jan 2000 01:49:02 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128Clt-0008Og-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 01:40:25 +0000
Received: from tk1.ihug.co.nz ([203.29.160.13] helo=smtp1.ihug.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128Clr-0008Ob-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 01:40:23 +0000
Received: from test (p6-max1.chc.ihug.co.nz [207.214.13.198]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id OAA21031 for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 14:40:13 +1300
Message-ID: <005701bf5c9e$23b33b00$c60dd6cf@test>
From: "Dave Brown" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
References: <000e01bf5ba5$6bc57f60$60d725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de><387ABC73.EB1AE1BB@qsl.net> 
Subject: Re: LF: Calculating distributed C for inductors
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 14:41:22 +1300
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

The classic method for determining self capacitance of an inductor is to
measure the resonant frequency (freq) with several values of parallel
capacitance.(C)

Making a plot of 1/(freq)squared on the vertical axis v. resonating
capacitance on the horizontal axis yields a straight line(or should!!) that
intersects the HORIZONTAL or capacitance axis at a negative C  value when
extrapolated.
 The negative C value is the self capacitance of the inductor in question.
As well,  the slope of the straight line is a measure of the  TRUE
inductance value of the coil and can be taken from the relation  L (henries)
= 0.0253M, where M is the slope of the line.(freq in MHz and C in pF).

A more practical method based on the above is the F/2F method where the
inductor is resonated at an initial frequency, F1, the added parallel C
value measured (C1). The inductor is then re-resonated at TWICE the first
frequency, say F2, and again the resonating C measured(C2).
The inductor self-capacitance is then given by
Cself = (C1 - 4C2)/3.

Measuring the inductance and then the parallel resonating capacitance and
trying to predict the stray C from the required result correction will only
give an approximate answer, as will direct measument of the self-resonant
frequency (and thence to the self-C)  but for accurate work the F/2F method
is better.

73
Dave
ZL3FJ




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 25390 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2000 06:41:55 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jan 2000 06:41:55 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128HOu-0001iA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 06:37:00 +0000
Received: from mta00.talk21.com ([62.172.192.40] helo=t21mta00-app.talk21.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128HOt-0001i5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 06:36:59 +0000
Received: from dave ([213.1.35.74]) by t21mta00-app.talk21.com         (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP         id <20000112063517.JLMQ26117.t21mta00-app.talk21.com@dave>         for ;         Wed, 12 Jan 2000 06:35:17 +0000
Message-ID: <000001bf5cc7$66b5c8e0$4a2301d5@dave>
From: "Dave Sergeant" 
To: "rsgb_lf_group" 
Subject: LF: CFH (again!)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 21:03:34 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

>From Dave G3YMC

Mal yesterday and today gave a very detailed signal report on CFH during
daylight hours, and his reports, in particular on hearing it at 1530 today,
agree largely with the reception here.  However we need to interpolate his
figure backwards in time.  During the night (midnight onwards) till 0800 CFH
is some 10dB stronger than the signal at 0830 (s9+10 on my meter, probably
s9 on Mal's).  This is the time of main propogation, where the signal is
enormous, and is the time when any amateur QSO would take place.  This
follows closely the state of the D layer over the path and is a true night
time effect.

The much weaker signals copied during the day (it was pretty weak this
afternoon) are characteristic of the effects found on similar paths on 160 -
VE1 has also been heard on that band in the late afternoon, and even I
believe at midday.  This is probably some form of scatter propogation via
the arctic and polar regions which are in permanent night.  I suppose with
the power of CFH it could also be its signal punching through the D layer
(which may be thinner in winter). Such propogation is only seen at the
middle of the winter season.

The Greek RTTY follows a similar pattern, only because it is nearer the
daytime signal is rather stronger.  Note that this signal becomes strong
before dusk, but goes down before our dawn, following the night path between
the UK and SV.

Mal mentions the problem of QRM from CFH - in case we hadn't noticed!  I
suggest that the Rugby transmitter on 73.4, which has more or less put an
end to realistic QSOs on that band, is similar both in function, purpose and
power to CFH.  The noise sidebands we get from GBR are probably what a
listener in VE1 would hear on 136!  If QSOs on 73 are limited to 11km on
73kHz when Rugby is on (congratulations Jim!) we are going to find it a bit
hard going to work VE on 136!!

73s Dave G3YMC
dsergeant@iee.org
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 28796 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2000 09:35:33 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jan 2000 09:35:33 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128K2Z-0002km-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:26:07 +0000
Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128K2X-0002kh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:26:05 +0000
Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust245.tnt6.rtm1.nl.uu.net [212.153.214.245]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 77F24CAE6E for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:25:49 +0000 (GMT)
Message-ID: <001101bf5cdf$87f66ec0$f5d699d4@w8k3f0>
From: "Dick Rollema" 
To: "LF-Group" 
Subject: Fw: LF: Loops
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:14:45 +0100
Organization: Freeler
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

To All from PA0SE

Peter, G3LDO wrote:

> Provided you are not too bothered about the deep nulls loop antennas
> with side-by-side windings are good for DX if they are over a metre
> in diameter. This construction (see the PA0SE design in the RSGB
> Communication Handbook and the G3LNP design in Radcom July 1999)
> allows the individual wires of the windings to be spaced to reduce
> the loop internal capacity and increase the Q.

I can confirm that my frame-type loop antenna produces a null of at least 50
dB as I found out on the strong signal from DCF139.

73, Dick, PA0SE



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 5358 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2000 10:17:18 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jan 2000 10:17:18 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128Kh5-00035D-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:07:59 +0000
Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128Kh4-000358-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:07:58 +0000
Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 128KhA-0004Rh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:08:05 +0000
Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:50:29 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
From: "Mike Dennison" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:50:28 -0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: Re: LF: CFH (again!)
In-reply-to: <000001bf5cc7$66b5c8e0$4a2301d5@dave>
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11)
X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq
Message-ID: 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

G3YMC wrote:
> Mal mentions the problem of QRM from CFH - in case we hadn't noticed!  I
> suggest that the Rugby transmitter on 73.4, which has more or less put an
> end to realistic QSOs on that band, is similar both in function, purpose
> and power to CFH.  The noise sidebands we get from GBR are probably what a
> listener in VE1 would hear on 136!  If QSOs on 73 are limited to 11km on
> 73kHz when Rugby is on (congratulations Jim!) we are going to find it a
> bit hard going to work VE on 136!!

I strongly believe that the noise on the Rugby 73.4kHz transmssion 
is not merely a function of its strength. Most of us (outside the 
Midlands) had no trouble having QSOs on most of the band until 
about Spring 99. I could get 9+50dB on the Rugby signal and S3 
noise floor only a couple of hundred of Hertz away, but now the 
noise is over S9. 

This is either accidental - noisy oscillator, or (most likely) deliberate -
 spread spectrum or clever data mode.

The effect was first noticed by Roger, G2AJV, who spent hours 
trying to fix what he thought was a fault on his antenna when he 
could neither hear nor work people who used to be good signals. 
Dave, G3YMC, himself reported being puzzled not to hear signals 
that were prevously good. Later, I tried to work G3YXM for a second 
time and we were both surprised not to hear each other. The noise 
crept up on us as the band was used for amateur contacts only 
once every few months.

It is possible that CFH has some noise sidebands, but please don't 
assume that the present Rugby signal is typical of LF commercials.

At the risk of winding Mal up, the only really useful way to make 
QSOs on 73 these days is QRSs. This was used by myself and 
G3LDO to work GD0MRF at 400km+.


Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT)
http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 19396 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2000 13:26:14 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jan 2000 13:26:14 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128NYU-0004Oa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:11:18 +0000
Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128NYS-0004OV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:11:17 +0000
Received: from gemini.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 128NVr-0000xr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:08:35 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <27715.200001121314@gemini>
From: "James Moritz" 
Organization: University of Hertfordshire
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:13:13 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: Re: LF: Calculating distributed C for inductors
In-reply-to: <005701bf5c9e$23b33b00$c60dd6cf@test>
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11)
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Dear LF Group,

Re: Loops and stray capacitance measurements.

All these methods will give you a rough idea of the stray 
capacitance; but results will be somewhat variable, since they 
assume that the loop can be modelled as an inductor with some 
stray capacitance in paralell. An actual loop antenna, due to it's  
construction, has distributed capacitance and inductance, so a 
more realistic model would be a network of transmission lines. I 
think models have been devised for single turn loops, but I am not 
aware of any for a multi turn loop. My maths isn't up to it, i'm afraid!
	
In practice, this means the experimental value of stray C varies 
depending on what the measuring frequency is - the effect gets 
worse the closer you get to the self resonant frequency, and the 
nearer the length of wire in the winding approaches the 
wavelength. I seem to remember the apparent stray capacitance 
goes down as the frequency goes up. 

What this means to loop-makers is you have to take the 
measurements with a large pinch of salt. Dont be suprised if the 
resuts are inconsistent. In general, higher Q and therefore better 
sensitivity occur with low stray capacitance and thick wire.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 2727 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2000 19:22:44 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jan 2000 19:22:44 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128T9u-0006yJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:10:18 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128T9r-0006yE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:10:15 +0000
Received: from as32-s15-148-22.cwci.net ([195.44.148.22] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128T9n-0002o3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:10:12 +0000
Message-ID: <387D4110.D8B52A65@netscapeonline.co.uk>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:05:52 -0800
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: CFH (again!)
References: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

No Windup. Its a reality if you need to use LMCW and Small Loop Antennas and
Lemonade bottles for coil formers for local qso's its  SYMPATHY you need.

Mike Dennison wrote:

> G3YMC wrote:
> > Mal mentions the problem of QRM from CFH - in case we hadn't noticed!  I
> > suggest that the Rugby transmitter on 73.4, which has more or less put an
> > end to realistic QSOs on that band, is similar both in function, purpose
> > and power to CFH.  The noise sidebands we get from GBR are probably what a
> > listener in VE1 would hear on 136!  If QSOs on 73 are limited to 11km on
> > 73kHz when Rugby is on (congratulations Jim!) we are going to find it a
> > bit hard going to work VE on 136!!
>
> I strongly believe that the noise on the Rugby 73.4kHz transmssion
> is not merely a function of its strength. Most of us (outside the
> Midlands) had no trouble having QSOs on most of the band until
> about Spring 99. I could get 9+50dB on the Rugby signal and S3
> noise floor only a couple of hundred of Hertz away, but now the
> noise is over S9.
>
> This is either accidental - noisy oscillator, or (most likely) deliberate -
>  spread spectrum or clever data mode.
>
> The effect was first noticed by Roger, G2AJV, who spent hours
> trying to fix what he thought was a fault on his antenna when he
> could neither hear nor work people who used to be good signals.
> Dave, G3YMC, himself reported being puzzled not to hear signals
> that were prevously good. Later, I tried to work G3YXM for a second
> time and we were both surprised not to hear each other. The noise
> crept up on us as the band was used for amateur contacts only
> once every few months.
>
> It is possible that CFH has some noise sidebands, but please don't
> assume that the present Rugby signal is typical of LF commercials.
>
> At the risk of winding Mal up, the only really useful way to make
> QSOs on 73 these days is QRSs. This was used by myself and
> G3LDO to work GD0MRF at 400km+.
>
> Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT)
> http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 9619 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2000 20:09:59 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jan 2000 20:09:59 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128Txl-0007M1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:01:49 +0000
Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128Txk-0007Lw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:01:48 +0000
Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-120-221.bellatlantic.net [151.200.120.221]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA09602; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:01:21 -0500 (EST)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <387CDDD4.6DD83F48@bellatlantic.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:02:29 -0500
From: "Andre' Kesteloot" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47  (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "rsgb_lf_group" 
Cc: "Gentges K0BRA, Frank" 
Subject: LF: Rugby ???
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hello LF Gang,
Rugby on 16 KHz heard in Virginia, or so it seems...
Andre' N4ICK
***********************************************
Frank Gentges K0BRA wrote on :

> LFers,
>
> I took the van out Sunday afternoon to Algonkian Park to make a dry run.
> Active antenna went up on a 24' pole.  It went up fine and just strapped
> it to the ladder on the back of the van with a couple of straps.
>
> Tentec DSP RX320 receiver ran on car battery through a cigarette lighter
> cord.  A second 12

> volt UPS deep cycle battery was added in series and then regulated down
> to 19 volts to run the Thinkpad notebook computer.  Some noise coupled
> into the audio lines from the RX320 into the notebook.  The notebook
> battery charging circuit was the source.  I built an audio isolation
> adapter to isolate the grounds between the notebook and the RX320 and it
> fixed the problem.
>
> I copied GBR near 16 kHz from Rugby UK.  I copied 3 LOWFers, DCH from
> Berlin MD, TH from Colts Neck, NJ and A3O from PA.  Also copied by ear
> the Wa2XTF beacon from Front Royal.

[...]

> Frank K0BRA
> _______________________________________________
> lf mailing list
> lf@amrad.org
> http://www.amrad.org/mailman/listinfo/lf



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 10449 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2000 20:14:33 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jan 2000 20:14:33 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128U39-0007NB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:07:23 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from aurora.eexi.gr ([195.167.28.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128U36-0007N3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:07:21 +0000
Received: from odin (ppp84.dialup.eexi.gr [195.167.28.148]) by aurora.eexi.gr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA14307 for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 22:08:14 +0200
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20000112204222.006b3e44@aurora.eexi.gr>
X-Sender: sv1xv@aurora.eexi.gr
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32)
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:42:22 +0200
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Costas Krallis" 
Subject: SXV 135 kHz (Was Re: LF: CFH (again!))
In-reply-to: <000001bf5cc7$66b5c8e0$4a2301d5@dave>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

At 21:03 11/01/2000 -0000, you wrote:

> The Greek RTTY follows a similar pattern, only because it is nearer the
> daytime signal is rather stronger.  Note that this signal becomes strong
> before dusk, but goes down before our dawn, following the night path between
> the UK and SV.

BYW, I was told recently that the Greek Navy RTTY station on
135 MHz, located at Marathon, NE of Athens, is allocated the
ITU callsign "SXV".

Costas



 +------------------------------------------------------------+
 | Costas Krallis SV1XV      *   LOC KM18UA                   |
 | P.O.Box 3066              *   FAX: +30-1-3811362           |
 | GR-10210 Athens           *   E-Mail: sv1xv@eexi.gr        |
 | GREECE                    *                                |
 +------------------------------------------------------------+



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 11079 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2000 20:57:22 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jan 2000 20:57:22 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128UkZ-0007gH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:52:15 +0000
Received: from mail12.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.215]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128UkW-0007gC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:52:12 +0000
Received: from modem-6.name9.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.164.6] helo=lvm) by mail12.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.12 #0) id 128UkQ-0006G6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:52:09 +0000
Message-ID: <000201bf5d3e$da54a880$06a4883e@lvm>
From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" 
To: "rsgb lf group" 
Subject: LF: 135 Greek RTTY SXV.
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:49:48 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit










I am looking for signals from the SE to check my 
ant.Can anyone  give me the exact freq. of the Greek station?   
73s Laurie.


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 2982 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2000 21:18:21 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jan 2000 21:18:21 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128V26-0007oU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 21:10:22 +0000
Received: from as-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.148] helo=spamgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128V25-0007oP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 21:10:21 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id QAA00667 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 16:10:09 -0500 (EST)
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 16:09:46 -0500
From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Subject: LF: 135 Greek RTTY SXV.
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Message-ID: <200001121610_MC2-9471-C142@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Disposition: inline
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hello Laurie,

>Can anyone  give me the exact freq. of the Greek station?   73s Laurie.


this is some information from my own homepage http://www.qru.de (I havn't
checked the informationt lately so I can only hope that it is still correct
...):
------------------------------------------
 
Greek RTTY Station around 135.8 kHz 

This signal at the lower band edge can be used as a propagation indicator
for longwave propagation into Southern Europe. 

Mark: 135.870 kHz 
Space: 135.775 kHz 

Shift: 95 Hz 
Baudrate: 75 baud (?) FSK 
Signal strength: normally up to approx. -104 dBu (at 75 Ohm), raises up to
-88 dBu (75) when conditions are good to Southern Europe
-----------------------------------------

Vy 73

Geri, DK8KW (W1KW)
http://www.qru.de


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 8850 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2000 04:14:38 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Jan 2000 04:14:38 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128bSr-00023c-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 04:02:25 +0000
Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128bSo-00023X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 04:02:22 +0000
Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-120-172.bellatlantic.net [151.200.120.172]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA09702; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 23:02:03 -0500 (EST)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <387D4E01.67B44A15@bellatlantic.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 23:01:06 -0500
From: "Andre' Kesteloot" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47  (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Cc: "rsgb_lf_group" , 
 "Gentges K0BRA, Frank" 
Subject: LF: A 36-inch Ferrite Loop
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net id XAA09702
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

In reference to recent postings on this reflector regarding receiving
loops,  the following article by Frank Gentges which appeared in the
current issue of the AMRAD Newsletter, may be of interest.
73
Andre' N4ICK
***************************
Making a Carbonyl Iron Rod

RF magnetics are made from either powdered iron or ferrite. Raw
ferrite powder is not suitable for RF magnetics as it needs to be
fired in a kiln using special recipes to convert the raw material into
the RF magnetics we are familiar with. Raw powdered iron is mixed with
some binder matrix and pressed under high pressure (50,000 psi) into a
mold to make RF magnetics-like cup cores, toroid cores and rods we are
seeing from places like Amidon.

The powdered iron used in these applications is made with the carbonyl
process where the iron particles are precipitated out in very small
sizes around 1 micron. In addition the process can coat the individual
particles with a non-conducting iron compound. This coating limits
particle-to-particle conduction, which could lead to large eddy
currents much as a solid piece of iron would have. This iron powder is
called carbonyl iron powder.

It is made for several uses. It is made, of course, for RF magnetic
devices. Also it has been used in copy machines as "developer" where
the powder coats a magnetic rod and acts as a very soft brush to clean
toner from a photo drum surface. Here it is just a soft brush held
together with a magnetic field. Carbonyl iron can also be pressed into
objects and fired at high temperatures into solid objects where the
individual particles fuse into a sold piece in a sintering process.

Long powdered iron or ferrite rods of over a foot could provide high
sensitivity LF loopstick antennas. However, there is limited demand
and the costs can exceed a thousand dollars for a rod of 2 feet. The
obvious question is whether one could make a rod at home.
We looked at this and selected carbonyl iron over ferrite because it
could all be done at room temperature.
Pressing the carbonyl iron at 50000 psi is somewhat impractical at
home so instead, a PVC pipe was filled with the carbonyl iron powder
and it showed improvement over an equivalent air core coil at LF.
The powder was made by GAF and is called "IRON POWDER C". This powder
was
obtained some 15 years ago on another project and enough left over for
this job.

A 16-inch piece of 1-inch schedule 40 PVC pipe was capped on one end
with a PVC cap and the PVC cement. A portion of the powder was poured
into the pipe and tamped with a broomstick using a hammer to compress
it and force out the air. This force was much less that the 50,000
pounds of pressure used in industry. Repeated pouring and tamping
eventually filled the pipe full. When full the other end was capped.

This worked well in antenna tests so a 36- inch piece of 1-inch pipe
was filled. This worked even better as a LOWFer receiving antenna. It
was wound and a piece of aluminum flashing was put around it as a
shield. The whole assembly was put into a larger 2-inch piece of
schedule 40 PVC pipe and capped to seal it for outdoor use.

This powder is very fine and seems to go places you don't intend and
you will get dirty doing this so use old clothes and be prepared to
shower after filling. After capping the pipe can be cleaned and be
ready for winding.

Iron powder can react with moisture and turn to rust, which will
degrade the RF performance so if the end caps fully seal the rod can
be used for years.
The type C powder used is not a high permeability material and when in
a rod
configuration the overall inductance of a coil will not dramatically
increase over a similar air wound one. You may only see an increase of
two- or three-fold but this is to be expected.

Sources for the powder are limited since most powder suitable for this
rod is sold to large manufacturers of powdered iron components. GAF
seems to be in the roofing business and their web page at www.gaf.com
does not indicate other products. Hopefully we can find sources of the
powder in less than carload lots for amateur LF use. A second article
will cover the electrical design and use of the carbonyl iron antenna.

Frank Gentges, KŘBRA





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 29495 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2000 10:24:16 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Jan 2000 10:24:16 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128hJt-0004Rq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:17:33 +0000
Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128hJq-0004Rl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:17:30 +0000
Received: from modem-7.sleepwalker.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.104.135] helo=lvm) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.12 #0) id 128hJn-0004Vy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:17:27 +0000
Message-ID: <000201bf5daf$5b20cf00$8768883e@lvm>
From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" 
To: "rsgb lf group" 
Subject: LF: Re. SXV 135.
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:59:57 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit










Many thanks Geri for the information.73s 
Laurie.


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 4315 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2000 18:00:38 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Jan 2000 18:00:38 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128oPv-0007ZU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:52:15 +0000
Received: from hugo.fen.baynet.de ([194.95.193.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 128oPs-0007ZN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:52:13 +0000
Received: from 194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de (dialin-nbg-172.fen.baynet.de [195.37.215.52]) by hugo.fen.baynet.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA08876 for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:48:14 +0100 (MET)
Message-ID: <000801bf5def$082877e0$34d725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de>
From: "Walter Staubach" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: G3GVC in regular CW
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:52:04 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hello dear friends,
   I am very glad to tell you that I just had a very fine QSO with John in
reg CW. It is also my first one from the home-location JN59NO in reg CW to
G-land. Report received 559, given 569. There was really not one letter
lost. Thanks a lot, John.  How is your experience, dear friends: Is dusk
time especially friendly to our hobby? I worked I5MXX at nearly the same
time few days ago. 73 Walter DJ2LF




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 7238 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2000 07:31:24 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Jan 2000 07:31:24 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12916r-00044Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 07:25:25 +0000
Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226] helo=gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12916q-00044U-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 07:25:24 +0000
Received: by gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA23238; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 08:25:57 +0100 (MET)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from somewhere by smtpxd
Received: from somewhere by smtpxd
Message-ID: 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: AW: G3GVC in regular CW
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 08:25:18 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hallo Walter, Hallo Group,
congratulation for the cw qso you managed yeterday evening. I heared G4GVC
up to 449 and gave him a call but got no reply. G3KEV was calling cq the
same time you had the qso with John. Mad was up to 559. He got my call but
we did not complete the qso. I don´t know what happened. I´m going to
modifie my antenna at the weekend. My be it will help.
Dusk time seems to be a good time for LF qso´s. To get more experience I
will be qrv next week between 16:00 and 18:00 utc. 

73 de dl1san wolf

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Walter Staubach [mailto:ba338@fen.baynet.de]
Gesendet am: Donnerstag, 13. Januar 2000 18:52
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: LF: G3GVC in regular CW

Hello dear friends,
   I am very glad to tell you that I just had a very fine QSO with John in
reg CW. It is also my first one from the home-location JN59NO in reg CW to
G-land. Report received 559, given 569. There was really not one letter
lost. Thanks a lot, John.  How is your experience, dear friends: Is dusk
time especially friendly to our hobby? I worked I5MXX at nearly the same
time few days ago. 73 Walter DJ2LF




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 8050 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2000 14:04:00 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Jan 2000 14:04:00 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1297BW-0006nP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 13:54:38 +0000
Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1297BU-0006nK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 13:54:36 +0000
Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 129792-0005Ud-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 13:52:04 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <14216.200001141358@gemini>
From: "James Moritz" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: University of Hertfordshire
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 13:59:11 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: LF: M0BMU QRV on 73kHz again
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11)
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Dear LF Group,
	I intend to be on 73kHz again this evening, to try for a manual 
CW QSO with David, G0MRF/P. We have arranged to try 71.8kHz, 
starting about 20.30 utc. Any kind of reports will be very welcome.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 15346 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2000 18:06:36 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Jan 2000 18:06:36 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129Amv-0008Oc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:45:29 +0000
Received: from mb09.swip.net ([193.12.122.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129Amt-0008OX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:45:27 +0000
Received: from win95 (d212-151-93-175.swipnet.se [212.151.93.175])          by mb09.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP          id SAA08188 for ;          Fri, 14 Jan 2000 18:44:59 +0100 (MET)
Message-ID: <000401bf5eb7$87adbe80$af5d97d4@win95.swipnet.se>
From: "Christer Andersson" 
To: "RSGB LF group" 
Subject: LF: 35 km band
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 18:47:12 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hello Lowfers,

Today I received permission from the authorities to transmit between 7-8,5 kHz with maximum 1kW out from the transmitter.
"The transmitter shall be designed according to the regulations in ITU RR App. S2 and S3."

Q: Is a vertical to prefer, even though it becomes very short in terms of wavelength?
Will the neighbours complain about mechanical resonances in the antenna at transmit?
What would be the theoretical/estimated range?

73
Christer
sm6pxj




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 25869 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2000 18:45:57 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Jan 2000 18:45:57 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129BQH-0000Ap-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 18:26:09 +0000
Received: from ins23.netins.net ([167.142.225.23] helo=smtp-out.netins.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129BQF-0000Ak-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 18:26:08 +0000
Received: from netins.net (desm-25-082.dialup.netins.net [167.142.22.83]) by smtp-out.netins.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30595 for ; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:26:01 -0600 (CST)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <387F6A36.E74839EC@netins.net>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:25:58 -0600
From: "Tom Gruis, Ed.D." 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: 35 km band
References: <000401bf5eb7$87adbe80$af5d97d4@win95.swipnet.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

	You might check the LWCA homepage.  It seems to me that there used to
be an experimenter located in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, USA, that operated in
the audio range and that he was a member of that group.  I do not know
if he is still active or not.  I'll check a recent edition of the Low
Down after a while and see.

	You might also check out "cave radio" and spelunkers (Sp.?) pages.  I
have read articles in the past about these frequencies.  One thing that
comes quickly to mind is direct loop to loop transmission.  

	Also there is/was at least one navigation system operating at about 10
to 20 KHz.  Omega operated a chain of transmitters and it seems that the
receiver compared phases betwixt transmitting stations and it was
something like every 8 miles the phase from a transmitter would go
through 180 Degrees.  This is pretty much from memory.

	I am drawing a blank about Consolan and Deca systems, but it seems they
were both low, low freequency.

	Regarding your neighbors (not to mention their dogs), good advice would
be not to condust sonar experiments!

73,

Doc, K0HTF and longwave "D"
Iowa, USA, EN31dx






Christer Andersson wrote:
> 
> Hello Lowfers,
> 
> Today I received permission from the authorities to transmit between 7-8,5 kHz with maximum 1kW out from the transmitter.
> "The transmitter shall be designed according to the regulations in ITU RR App. S2 and S3."
> 
> Q: Is a vertical to prefer, even though it becomes very short in terms of wavelength?
> Will the neighbours complain about mechanical resonances in the antenna at transmit?
> What would be the theoretical/estimated range?
> 
> 73
> Christer
> sm6pxj


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 2250 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2000 19:25:18 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Jan 2000 19:25:18 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129CDs-0000Tf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 19:17:24 +0000
Received: from snowball-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.116] helo=snowball.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129CDr-0000PX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 19:17:23 +0000
Received: from magic.excite.com ([199.172.148.161]) by fortune.excite.com         (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with SMTP         id <20000114191510.FXEY315.fortune.excite.com@magic.excite.com>         for ;         Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:15:10 -0800
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <18018320.947877310598.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:15:10 -0800 (PST)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
From: "john sexton" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: 35 km band
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Mailer: Excite Inbox
X-Sender-Ip: 213.1.33.167
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hi Christer,

Do have a go! I for one am all ears.

IK1ODO's web page  at http://space.tin.it/scienza/rromero/ has some useful
pointers to other articles, where VLF antennas are described.

Best of luck

John, G4CNN





_______________________________________________________
Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
Visit http://freeworld.excite.com



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 19187 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2000 20:03:55 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Jan 2000 20:03:55 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129Cqh-0000jd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 19:57:31 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.211]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129Cqg-0000jY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 19:57:30 +0000
Received: from modem-30.rocknroll.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.105.158] helo=gateway) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 129CqY-0008RU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 19:57:22 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000114192216.00a8ee80@pop.freeserve.net>
X-Sender: twickenham.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 19:56:04 +0000
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Rob Gill" 
Subject: Re: LF: 35 km band
In-reply-to: <387F6A36.E74839EC@netins.net>
References: <000401bf5eb7$87adbe80$af5d97d4@win95.swipnet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

At 12:25 14/01/00 -0600, Tom Gruis, Ed.D. wrote:

>You might also check out "cave radio" and spelunkers (Sp.?) pages.  I
>have read articles in the past about these frequencies.  One thing that
>comes quickly to mind is direct loop to loop transmission.

The problem with loop to loop operation at these frequencies is that is 
subject to the inverse cube law of magnetic induction rather than an 
inverse square law. A few hundred metres is a useful range for a cave radio 
but the power required for greater range very quickly becomes impractical.

The "earth bi-pole" approach of John Taylor G0AKN, referred to by Andre' 
Kesteloot a few days ago, may be a better approach at these frequencies 
(ref: the exchanges regarding the AMRAD Antenna about a week ago). This 
technique is now frequently used for cave radio purposes with significantly 
greater range when one or both of the inductive loop antennas is replaced 
with an "earth-current" antenna. Cave radios generally operate at 73kHz or 
above rather than audio frequencies.

I know that John has recently experimented with some success at audio 
frequencies, and I think he monitors this mail reflector. I'm sure he would 
be happy to offer advice on antennas for the 35km band.

Rob

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Rob Gill, Cave Radio and Electronics Group
61 Cross Deep Gardens, Twickenham, Middlesex
TW1 4QZ, England
email: creg@bcra.org.uk
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 23435 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2000 20:55:07 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Jan 2000 20:55:07 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129DdO-00013A-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 20:47:50 +0000
Received: from ins23.netins.net ([167.142.225.23] helo=smtp-out.netins.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129DdM-000135-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 20:47:49 +0000
Received: from netins.net (desm-24-56.dialup.netins.net [167.142.21.185]) by smtp-out.netins.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04391 for ; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 14:47:44 -0600 (CST)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <387F8B6F.A985F270@netins.net>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 14:47:43 -0600
From: "Tom Gruis, Ed.D." 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: 35 km band
References: <000401bf5eb7$87adbe80$af5d97d4@win95.swipnet.se> <4.2.0.58.20000114192216.00a8ee80@pop.freeserve.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

100%.  I meant to be brainstorming more than advising.  Doc.

Rob Gill wrote:
> 
> At 12:25 14/01/00 -0600, Tom Gruis, Ed.D. wrote:
> 
> >You might also check out "cave radio" and spelunkers (Sp.?) pages.  I
> >have read articles in the past about these frequencies.  One thing that
> >comes quickly to mind is direct loop to loop transmission.
> 
> The problem with loop to loop operation at these frequencies is that is
> subject to the inverse cube law of magnetic induction rather than an
> inverse square law. A few hundred metres is a useful range for a cave radio
> but the power required for greater range very quickly becomes impractical.
> 
> The "earth bi-pole" approach of John Taylor G0AKN, referred to by Andre'
> Kesteloot a few days ago, may be a better approach at these frequencies
> (ref: the exchanges regarding the AMRAD Antenna about a week ago). This
> technique is now frequently used for cave radio purposes with significantly
> greater range when one or both of the inductive loop antennas is replaced
> with an "earth-current" antenna. Cave radios generally operate at 73kHz or
> above rather than audio frequencies.
> 
> I know that John has recently experimented with some success at audio
> frequencies, and I think he monitors this mail reflector. I'm sure he would
> be happy to offer advice on antennas for the 35km band.
> 
> Rob
> 
> +------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> Rob Gill, Cave Radio and Electronics Group
> 61 Cross Deep Gardens, Twickenham, Middlesex
> TW1 4QZ, England
> email: creg@bcra.org.uk
> +------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 17829 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2000 23:44:45 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Jan 2000 23:44:45 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129GEx-00027T-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 23:34:47 +0000
Received: from teapot21.domain3.bigpond.com ([139.134.5.159]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129GEw-00027O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 23:34:46 +0000
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by teapot21.domain3.bigpond.com (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id wa092582 for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 09:34:16 +1000
Received: from MOIP-A-002-pool-84.tmns.net.au ([139.134.91.84]) by mail3.bigpond.com (Claudes-Mythical-MailRouter V2.7 5/1141388); 15 Jan 2000 09:34:15
Message-ID: <002701bf5ee8$056211c0$545b868b@zimslaptop>
From: "Graeme Zimmer" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
References: <000401bf5eb7$87adbe80$af5d97d4@win95.swipnet.se> <4.2.0.58.20000114192216.00a8ee80@pop.freeserve.net>
Subject: Re: LF: 35 km band
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 10:35:17 +1100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hi,

> >You might also check out "cave radio" and spelunkers (Sp.?) pages.  I
> >have read articles in the past about these frequencies.  One thing that
> >comes quickly to mind is direct loop to loop transmission.

I think that I was the first to send PSK31 at 1Khz through the Earth.....

My interest was in experimenting with Ohmic "Earth Current" communications
as distinct from Magnetic induction or ElectroMagnet coupling.

I found it very easy  to achieve a few Km range using an audio amp TX and my
laptop soundcard mic input as the RX.

One advantage of the "Earth Dipole" (as I call it) is that it is mainly
resistive and makes a very simple antenna at these low frequencies. A laptop
PC and an earth dipole can make a surprisingly sensitive RX at audio
frequencies. I can easily "see" the CW from VTX3 in India from here in South
Eastern Australia.

John G0AKN has since achieved up to 10 km or so using QRSSS CW as well as
PSK31.

I made a few notes at the time on
                http://www.users.bigpond.com/gzimmer/index.html

Regards .............. Zim .....................VK3GJZ



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 4878 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2000 07:39:38 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Jan 2000 07:39:38 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129Nek-00054Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 07:29:54 +0000
Received: from mta00.talk21.com ([62.172.192.40] helo=t21mta00-app.talk21.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129Nej-00054L-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 07:29:53 +0000
Received: from dave ([213.1.9.202]) by t21mta00-app.talk21.com         (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP         id <20000115072806.NKQY26117.t21mta00-app.talk21.com@dave>         for ;         Sat, 15 Jan 2000 07:28:06 +0000
Message-ID: <000501bf5f2a$48ce2d80$ca0901d5@dave>
From: "Dave Sergeant" 
To: "rsgb_lf_group" 
Subject: LF: 73kHz
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 07:29:11 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

>From Dave G3YMC

Friday night was activity night on 73kHz, with more stations on the band at
the same time than I have ever known!  Rugby was transmitting a different
sort of data and the sideband noise seemed slightly down.

Heard G3XTZ 569    G0MRF 349
M0BMU and G3XDV which I heard Graham working were not copyable here.

73s Dave G3YMC
dsergeant@iee.org
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 5131 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2000 09:57:43 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Jan 2000 09:57:43 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129PqK-0005qX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 09:50:00 +0000
Received: from [199.172.153.143] (helo=squealer.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129PqJ-0005qS-00 for RSGB_LF_GROUP@BLACKSHEEP.ORG; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 09:49:59 +0000
Received: from magic.excite.com ([199.172.148.161]) by gigi.excite.com         (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with SMTP         id <20000115094759.OPUX311.gigi.excite.com@magic.excite.com>         for ;         Sat, 15 Jan 2000 01:47:59 -0800
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <14952519.947929679548.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 01:47:59 -0800 (PST)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
From: "john sexton" 
To: RSGB_LF_GROUP@BLACKSHEEP.ORG
Subject: LF: 73 kHz
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Mailer: Excite Inbox
X-Sender-Ip: 213.1.30.74
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Listened to the QSOs on 71.8 kHz at 20.30 last night 14.1.2000. Heard the
following QSOs in the first half hour:

M0BMU	4,4,9
G0MRF	5,5,9

M0BMU	4,4,9
G3XTZ	5,6,9

G0MRF	5,5,9
G3XDV	3,3,9

The band seemed relatively quiet with no strong QRM or QRN.

G4CNN, IO91ML
Antenna 136 kHz loop oriented East-West
Rx AOR 7030

The signals from the G5RV antenna seemed very weak - must change that
feeder!






_______________________________________________________
Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
Visit http://freeworld.excite.com



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 28591 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2000 12:15:41 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Jan 2000 12:15:41 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129S03-0006in-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 12:08:11 +0000
Received: from [195.166.128.23] (helo=merlins.force9.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129S02-0006ii-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 12:08:10 +0000
Received: (qmail 14040 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2000 12:08:07 -0000
Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by merlins.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Jan 2000 12:08:07 -0000
Received: (qmail 3650 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2000 12:08:06 -0000
Received: from 188.3a-01.quay.dial.plus.net.uk (HELO main) (212.159.121.188) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Jan 2000 12:08:06 -0000
Message-ID: <000001bf5f51$d60673c0$0600a8c0@main>
From: "Dave" 
To: "LF Group" 
Subject: LF: LF Net
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 23:06:23 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Dear all.

Just a reminder about the LF net.
Come and fight the QRM on 80m fone, 3646kHz at 1900z on Sunday evenings. The
last few weeks we've been struggling for LF operators with only two or three
stations on the net.

See you there?

73, Dave G3YXM.



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 16306 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2000 13:23:26 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Jan 2000 13:23:26 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129T75-00075F-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 13:19:31 +0000
Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129T74-00075A-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 13:19:30 +0000
Received: from [213.1.187.8] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 129T71-0000eg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 13:19:27 +0000
Message-ID: <001a01bf5f5a$a3ea4d40$08bb01d5@default>
From: "Alan Melia" 
To: "rsgb_lf_group" 
Subject: LF: Collins 300Hz filters for AOR 7030
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 13:14:41 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hi All, Vaino and I have found a filter from the Rockwell-Collins "Low Cost
Range" with a bandwidth of 300Hz and physical charcteristics similar to the
500Hz option offered as a retrofit option by AOR. (Shape curves can be found
on the R-C site)
I have been quoted a rather high price for this unit by the the R-C agent in
the UK but find that I can purchase direct from Rockwell-Collins in
California. The problem is they do not accept credit cards and require a
bank-draft, money order, or dollar cheque. The UK banks derive quite a
rip-off from these items as you may know.

 I am willing to make a bulk order for these items if there is any interest.
I am definitely obtaining one for my receiver, and a bulk purchase would
enable us to benefit from a lower carriage and even a slightly lower
purchase cost. The basic price from R-C is $91. Vaino was charged $121
including carriage. There would obviously be a portion of the bank fees and
VAT and duty to add to that. If you are interested in joining me in
obtaining these items I will attempt to get a rather more firm idea of the
actual total cost. I am even willing to fit them to the receivers if
required, but it is a very simple operation.

73 de Alan G3NYK
Alan.Melia@btinternet.com




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 9409 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2000 13:52:51 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Jan 2000 13:52:51 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129TXC-0007Bg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 13:46:30 +0000
Received: from mashie.force9.net ([195.166.128.30]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129TXB-0007Bb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 13:46:29 +0000
Received: (qmail 1627 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2000 13:46:26 -0000
Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2000 13:46:26 -0000
Received: (qmail 6275 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2000 13:46:25 -0000
Received: from 89.39-01.quay.dial.plus.net.uk (HELO main) (212.159.120.89) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Jan 2000 13:46:25 -0000
Message-ID: <00a801bf5f5f$922b3420$0600a8c0@main>
From: "Dave" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
References: <001a01bf5f5a$a3ea4d40$08bb01d5@default>
Subject: LF: Re: Collins 300Hz filters for AOR 7030
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 13:50:53 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Alan and all,

On the subject of filter upgrades. INRAD offer an excellent range of
filters, although they don't list AOR, but they are very helpful and they do
take credit cards.
Find them at:-
http://www.qth.com/INRAD/index.htm

By the way, what's the IF frequency of the AOR?

73, Dave G3YXM.

> Hi All, Vaino and I have found a filter from the Rockwell-Collins "Low
Cost
> Range" with a bandwidth of 300Hz and physical charcteristics similar to
the
> 500Hz option offered as a retrofit option by AOR. (Shape curves can be
found
> on the R-C site)
> I have been quoted a rather high price for this unit by the the R-C agent
in
> the UK but find that I can purchase direct from Rockwell-Collins in
> California. The problem is they do not accept credit cards and require a
> bank-draft, money order, or dollar cheque. The UK banks derive quite a
> rip-off from these items as you may know.
>
>  I am willing to make a bulk order for these items if there is any
interest.
> I am definitely obtaining one for my receiver, and a bulk purchase would
> enable us to benefit from a lower carriage and even a slightly lower
> purchase cost. The basic price from R-C is $91. Vaino was charged $121
> including carriage. There would obviously be a portion of the bank fees
and
> VAT and duty to add to that. If you are interested in joining me in
> obtaining these items I will attempt to get a rather more firm idea of the
> actual total cost. I am even willing to fit them to the receivers if
> required, but it is a very simple operation.
>
> 73 de Alan G3NYK
> Alan.Melia@btinternet.com
>
>
>
>



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 11908 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2000 16:57:42 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Jan 2000 16:57:42 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129WIw-0008Ho-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 16:43:58 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.91]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129WIu-0008Hj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 16:43:57 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from dennison.demon.co.uk ([194.222.239.33]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 129WIn-0008xm-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 16:43:52 +0000
Message-ID: <6j4ulCAiNKg4Ewch@dennison.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 16:42:10 +0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Mike Dennison" 
Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz
In-reply-to: <000501bf5f2a$48ce2d80$ca0901d5@dave>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

>>From Dave G3YMC
>Friday night was activity night on 73kHz, with more stations on the band at
>the same time than I have ever known!  Rugby was transmitting a different
>sort of data and the sideband noise seemed slightly down.
>
Yes, I agree. The noise was a little down. We were all on 71.80kHz which
is about as far away from Rugby as possible without getting QRM from
Loran, and the noise was S5. Later in the evening it came up to higher
than I have ever heard it at well over S9.

I worked M0BMU who had improved his antenna (gave 599, got 589), and
G0MRF (559/459). Also heard G3XTZ (569) who heard me but only briefly
when his local noise was off. 

Other QSOs were between M0BMU/G0MRF, M0BMU.G3XTZ and G3XTZ/G0MRF.

Max distances were about 30km.

-- 
Mike, G3XDV
IO91VT
http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 16192 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2000 17:13:28 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Jan 2000 17:13:28 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129Wae-0008ON-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 17:02:16 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.41] helo=pyyhe.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129Wad-0008OI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 17:02:15 +0000
Received: from default (MKDCCXXXVII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.167.237]) by pyyhe.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA16983 for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 19:12:30 +0200 (EET)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000115190220.00864cb0@laatikko.saunalahti.fi>
X-Sender: oh2lx@laatikko.saunalahti.fi (Unverified)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32)
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 19:02:20 +0200
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= 
Subject: Re: LF: Collins 300Hz filters for AOR 7030
In-reply-to: <001a01bf5f5a$a3ea4d40$08bb01d5@default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hi all,

Just a little correction. R-C price is US$91.60 including
carriage etc. My local bank charged $30 for a check...
73 de Vaino, OH2LX




At 13:14 15.1.2000 -0000, you wrote:
>Hi All, Vaino and I have found a filter from the Rockwell-Collins "Low Cost
>Range" with a bandwidth of 300Hz and physical charcteristics similar to the
>500Hz option offered as a retrofit option by AOR. (Shape curves can be found
>on the R-C site)
>I have been quoted a rather high price for this unit by the the R-C agent in
>the UK but find that I can purchase direct from Rockwell-Collins in
>California. The problem is they do not accept credit cards and require a
>bank-draft, money order, or dollar cheque. The UK banks derive quite a
>rip-off from these items as you may know.
>
> I am willing to make a bulk order for these items if there is any interest.
>I am definitely obtaining one for my receiver, and a bulk purchase would
>enable us to benefit from a lower carriage and even a slightly lower
>purchase cost. The basic price from R-C is $91. Vaino was charged $121
>including carriage. There would obviously be a portion of the bank fees and
>VAT and duty to add to that. If you are interested in joining me in
>obtaining these items I will attempt to get a rather more firm idea of the
>actual total cost. I am even willing to fit them to the receivers if
>required, but it is a very simple operation.
>
>73 de Alan G3NYK
>Alan.Melia@btinternet.com

----------------------------------------------------------
V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland
------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------
E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 8954 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2000 00:29:04 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jan 2000 00:29:04 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129dSn-0002V3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 00:22:37 +0000
Received: from neodymium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.83]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129dSm-0002Uy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 00:22:36 +0000
Received: from [213.1.133.121] (helo=default) by neodymium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 129dSo-0002u8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 00:22:38 +0000
Message-ID: <000401bf5fb7$455deae0$798501d5@default>
From: "Alan Melia" 
To: "rsgb_lf_group" 
Subject: LF: new country  S57A on Cluster
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 00:18:02 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hi All a call from S57A on the DX Cluster at 1900 this evening (Sat)
announcing that he is active quoting 137.2 as his frequency. It looks like
he was trying to contact Toni HB9ASB on Friday but I guess Toni is not on a
DX cluster

Good Hunting Fellas
73 de Alan G3NYK



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 6141 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2000 07:42:29 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jan 2000 07:42:29 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129kBe-0004w6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 07:33:22 +0000
Received: from as-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.148] helo=spamgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129kBd-0004w1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 07:33:21 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id CAA17910 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 02:33:17 -0500 (EST)
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 02:32:07 -0500
From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Subject: LF: Transatlantic Tests January 16, 2000
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Message-ID: <200001160232_MC2-94E7-6887@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Disposition: inline
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hello friends,

it was nice to see three strong Slow CW signals again on one screen (see
http://www.qru.de/xtzyxmlpo.htm): 
        
        G3XTZ (137.780 kHz, -100 dBu
        G3YXM (137.770 kHz, -100 dBu)
        G3LDO(137.755 kHz, -103 dBu) 

Hope somebody on the other side saw you, too!

Best 73

Geri, DK8KW (W1KW)
http://www.qru.de


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 17854 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2000 08:35:36 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jan 2000 08:35:36 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129l0J-0005GN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 08:25:43 +0000
Received: from [195.166.128.23] (helo=merlins.force9.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129l0I-0005GI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 08:25:42 +0000
Received: (qmail 11582 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2000 08:25:39 -0000
Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by merlins.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jan 2000 08:25:39 -0000
Received: (qmail 31527 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2000 08:25:38 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO main) (212.159.121.106) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jan 2000 08:25:38 -0000
Message-ID: <002d01bf5ffb$ed094160$0600a8c0@main>
From: "Dave" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
References: <200001160232_MC2-94E7-6887@compuserve.com>
Subject: LF: Re: Transatlantic Tests January 16, 2000
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 08:30:03 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Geri,

The link doesn't work. I found it at
http://home.t-online.de/home/dk8kw/xtzyxmldo.html
We've had better copy than that so maybe condx were not too good. CFH is
33dB above noise this morning though...

Anyway, it was a good soak test for the transmitter!

73 Dave G3YXM

>Hello friends,
>
>it was nice to see three strong Slow CW signals again on one screen (see
>http://www.qru.de/xtzyxmlpo.htm):
>
>        G3XTZ (137.780 kHz, -100 dBu
>        G3YXM (137.770 kHz, -100 dBu)
>        G3LDO(137.755 kHz, -103 dBu)
>
>Hope somebody on the other side saw you, too!
>




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 21412 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2000 08:54:54 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jan 2000 08:54:54 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129lJL-0005Lj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 08:45:23 +0000
Received: from cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.175]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129lJK-0005Le-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 08:45:22 +0000
Received: from [195.92.67.23] (helo=mail18.svr.pol.co.uk) by cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 129lJH-00011n-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 08:45:19 +0000
Received: from modem-76.imperator-angel.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.32.76] helo=default) by mail18.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 129lJG-000589-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 08:45:19 +0000
Message-ID: <000001bf5ffe$1f2f7900$4c20893e@default>
From: "wireless" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
References: <000401bf5eb7$87adbe80$af5d97d4@win95.swipnet.se>
Subject: LF: Re: 35 km band
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 08:44:22 -0000
Organization: T@ylor Training
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Regarding the use of 'earth bi-pole' antennas at 73, 136 and audio
frequencies,
have a look at my website www.wireless.freeserve.co.uk
73
John Taylor  G0AKN
earth@wireless.freeserve.co.uk





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 14670 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2000 10:49:51 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jan 2000 10:49:51 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129n7O-000633-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 10:41:10 +0000
Received: from ds-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.134] helo=spdmgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129n7N-00062v-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 10:41:09 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id FAA00064 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 05:40:35 -0500 (EST)
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 05:39:48 -0500
From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Subject: LF: PA0SE and DK8KW field strength observations combined
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Message-ID: <200001160540_MC2-94F7-C57D@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Disposition: inline
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hello Lowfers,

I have found Dick's (PA0SE) field strength measurements of last weekend
very interesting. I have used Dick's observations, "normalized2 them to dBu
(0 dBu=0.775 V at 75 Ohm, so simply substract 10 dB from a dBm(50) and you
have got dBu(75)) and calculated the distances according to Dick's
QTH-Locator. A combined grpah shows both our observations in one single
plot.

Have a look at

        http://www.qru.de/signals.html

(hopefully this link works now, thanks, Dave for the hint).

Vy 73

Geri, DK8KW (W1KW)
http://wwwqru.de


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 10378 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2000 18:04:42 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jan 2000 18:04:42 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129ttO-00007E-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 17:55:10 +0000
Received: from neodymium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.83]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129ttN-000079-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 17:55:09 +0000
Received: from [213.1.145.192] (helo=default) by neodymium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 129ttO-0006tx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 17:55:11 +0000
Message-ID: <000f01bf604a$4da88780$c09101d5@default>
From: "Alan Melia" 
To: "rsgb_lf_group" 
Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots on GB7DXM for 15/16 Jan
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 17:49:52 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

   Hi All some quite interesting stuff on the Cluster this weekend, its
   a pity I didn't look at it until Saturday evening. Anyone work S57A??

   Listened on 73k on Friday evening, rather disappointed not to hear some
   of the activity. I guess I did detect one station on the waterfall
display
   on exactly 71.8 at about 2040z. Probably Mike.
   I find that my minimum discernable signal on 73 is about 20dB worse
   than 136, which I think is a mixture of aerial problems and several local
   smps (at least 3 different units ) in the evening and maybe a bit of the
'extra'
   noise Mike and Peter have been reporting. I spent some time on
   Saturday investigating so not much listening...except to hear 3 pounding
   great QRS signals (G3XTZ, G3YXM, and G3LDO) on about 137.78 after
midnight
   for the benefit of the frozen souls from the Amrad gang camped out at
   Nags Head again (hope you had a good weekend guys). Dave and Graham were
   at it again on Sunday early morning as well. There should be some well
   'seasoned' FETs there now!

   Sunday 16th
   In sporadic bouts of listening I noted the following:-
   HB9ASB about 1015z with the chaos aerial working well!
   DL1EIE called by DJ9IE who is a very consistent signal now
   G6RO,GW4ALG,G8RW,G8PX,GI3PDN, PA0BWL,LX1PD calling CQ EI, DJ5DI, G3OLB,
   M0BMU,G3AQC,ON4ZK wkg DK5PT (339 here under DIY QRM)
   And many weak lines on the waterfall around 136.5 to 136.9 which look
   from their length (90secs to 3 mins) to be CQs unanswered. These signals
   would be 'O' in the UK on QRSS fellas, even on that frequency if you are
rock bound.

Edited highlights of the DX Cluster postings from GB7DXM

   136.7  I5MXX        16-Jan-2000 1120Z  449                      
   136.5  LX1PD       16-Jan-2000 1051Z  559                      
   137.2  IK5ZPV      16-Jan-2000 1040Z  439                      
   136.6  DJ9IE        16-Jan-2000 0929Z  559                      
   136.4  OE5EEP    16-Jan-2000 0838Z  559 wkd               
   136.6  HB9ASB    16-Jan-2000 0730Z  579                      
   136.2  OE5EEP    16-Jan-2000 0730Z  539                      
   136.5  DJ9IE         15-Jan-2000 2149Z  calling cq              
   136.5  MM0ALM    15-Jan-2000 2115Z  569 here!              
   137.0  DK8KW      15-Jan-2000 1050Z  549                      
   136.6  DJ9IE         15-Jan-2000 1043Z  539

   136.4  HB9ASB     14-Jan-2000 1912Z  559                       
   136.6  DJ2LF        14-Jan-2000 1711Z  559 cq                   
   137.0  G4GVC      13-Jan-2000 1726Z  439                        
   136.7  G3KEV      13-Jan-2000 1711Z  549                        
G3NYK de GB7DXM   16-Jan 1648Z >
  1800.0  G3YXM       16-Jan-2000 0015Z  QRS Beacom 137.78 kHz    
  1800.0  G3XTZ         16-Jan-2000 0014Z  QRS Beacon 137.78kHz     
  1800.0  S57A          15-Jan-2000 1647Z  on 137.2

  1800.0  HB9ASB     14-Jan-2000 1929Z  are u on any cluster?

  1800.0  DL1SAN      12-Jan-2000 1647Z  pse loc dj9ie and urs

  1800.0  DJ9IE          11-Jan-2000 1822Z     137Khz

  1800.0  EU              11-Jan-2000 1649Z  eu bc 5/5 160-190 khz

  1800.0  ON6ND       10-Jan-2000 1902Z  136.5

  1800.0  DL1SAN      10-Jan-2000 1654Z  <-->qrb to dj9ie ????

  1800.0  DK8KW        8-Jan-2000 1026Z       137 Khz Good sigs

  1800.0  DL3FDO       8-Jan-2000 1025Z      137 Khz

  1800.0  OE5ODL       7-Jan-2000 1201Z  CQing 136.7kHz

  1800.0  OE5ODL       7-Jan-2000 1106Z  CQing on 136.5kHz

G3NYK de GB7DXM   16-Jan 1651Z >




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 11596 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2000 19:13:52 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jan 2000 19:13:52 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129uyz-0000cX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:05:01 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129uyy-0000cS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:05:00 +0000
Received: from as24-s15-144-141.cwci.net ([195.44.144.141] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129uyu-0006oN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:04:56 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <388286AC.2ACD0DEE@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:04:12 -0800
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "rsgb" 
Subject: LF: Transatlantic
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hi all
>>From statistics available the only amateur stations active on 137 khz in
the UK capable of making a two way qso across the atlantic are
MM0ALM/G3KEV/GI3KEV/GI3PDN. The statistics are based on
1: Antennas MM0ALM - 130 Ft towers
                   G3KEV     -  100 and and 80ft towers
                   GI3KEV    -  120 Ft tower ( another tower same height
to be installed soon to accommodate better antennas for the translantic
test)
                   GI3PDN    -   80 Ft tower ( upgrade soon to 120 ft)
These stations have suitable antennas supported by such towers. All are
capable except GI3PDN (at present qrp- going qro soon) of running the
maximum permitted 1W erp.
Of paramount inportance for this experiment is the ANTENNA and height
and the appropriate amount of RF to achieve the object. Trying to
compensate with high power and poor antennas will not  work. Even those
suitably equipped will be struggling. If anyone knows different let us
have your views. There are 3 other GI stations with hugh antennas in
excess of 140 ft high that could possible make it across the atlantic
but are presently not active on 137 khz. I am encouraging them to get
going hi. One other station in Loughborough /Leics England with a very
high tower will soon be active. Building a qro rig at present.
73 de Mal/G3KEV





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 26668 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2000 20:16:31 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jan 2000 20:16:31 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129vz9-00012N-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:09:15 +0000
Received: from [195.166.128.23] (helo=merlins.force9.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129vz8-00012I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:09:14 +0000
Received: (qmail 2283 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2000 20:08:59 -0000
Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by merlins.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jan 2000 20:08:59 -0000
Received: (qmail 19682 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2000 20:08:59 -0000
Received: from 212.3b-01.quay.dial.plus.net.uk (HELO main) (212.159.122.212) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jan 2000 20:08:59 -0000
Message-ID: <02ed01bf605e$2d643f00$0600a8c0@main>
From: "Dave" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
References: <388286AC.2ACD0DEE@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Subject: LF: Re: Transatlantic
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:13:35 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Dear all,

Assuming that we're sticking to 1W erp then what does it matter how big the
antenna is as long as the power is sufficient to  give the required erp?

CFH peaks 33dB above the noise regularly (in 100Hz filter). If its erp is
around 8kW as rumoured then a 4W erp signal would be on the noise level,
normal good copy, and a 1W signal would be 6dB down. No problem for
Spectrogram.

There is a VE station building for the band and he intends to try some tests
next "fall" from VO1. That should do it!

73 de G3YXM.



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 27358 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2000 21:44:25 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jan 2000 21:44:25 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129xNI-0001fq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 21:38:16 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129xNH-0001fl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 21:38:15 +0000
Received: from isis (userbj49.uk.uudial.com [62.188.143.212]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25485 for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 21:30:04 GMT
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000116213555.00986100@mailhost.pncl.co.uk>
X-Sender: blanch@mailhost.pncl.co.uk
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 21:37:38 +0000
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Walter Blanchard" 
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Transatlantic
In-reply-to: <02ed01bf605e$2d643f00$0600a8c0@main>
References: <388286AC.2ACD0DEE@netscapeonline.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

At 20:13 16/01/00 +0000,  G3YXM wrote:


>.....................There is a VE station building for the band and he 
>intends to try some tests
>next "fall" from VO1. That should do it!


Yes - if he can hear anything behind the 750 kW Loran transmitter at Cape 
Race!!!!


Walter G3JKV.



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 1274 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2000 22:52:10 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jan 2000 22:52:10 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129yP5-00025B-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 22:44:11 +0000
Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129yP3-000256-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 22:44:09 +0000
Received: from steve (beefcake.zeta.org.au [203.26.10.12]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA08075 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:43:58 +1100
Message-ID: <003f01bf6073$8296f520$1b4207ca@steve>
From: "Steve Olney" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
References: <000401bf5eb7$87adbe80$af5d97d4@win95.swipnet.se> <4.2.0.58.20000114192216.00a8ee80@pop.freeserve.net> <002701bf5ee8$056211c0$545b868b@zimslaptop>
Subject: Re: LF: 35 km band
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:46:17 +1100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

G'day All,

Here in VK-land although the regulations say there are no allocations below
10kHz and it APPEARS that there would be no restrictions, there is a
document which sets out the bands for the Class Licence for LIPDs (low
interference potential devices):-

1    All transmitters     0 to 0.014 MHz     200uW EIRP maximum

Mind you it would difficult to generate that EIRP with a reasonable size
vertical or loop, but not impossible.

73s Steve Olney (VK2ZTO/AXSO - QF56IK : Lat -33 34 07, Long +150 44 40)
=============================================
HomePage URLs:
http://www.qsl.net/vk2zto
http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg

Containing:-
Laser Comms DX
LF Experimentation
Amateur Radio Astronomy

LF Receiving - FRG-100, CHA antenna
LF Transmitting - 177.5/177.4kHz 8W - 7.6m vertical or CHA
Modes - AM, SSB, PSK31, SSTV, Hellschreiber, QRSS
and a new experimental mode - FDK.
=============================================



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 6742 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2000 23:08:18 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jan 2000 23:08:18 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129yek-00027L-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 23:00:22 +0000
Received: from praseodumium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 129yej-00027G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 23:00:21 +0000
Received: from [213.1.141.181] (helo=default) by praseodumium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 129yeg-0001db-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 23:00:18 +0000
Message-ID: <000f01bf6074$f367c440$b58d01d5@default>
From: "Alan Melia" 
To: "rsgb_lf_group" 
Subject: LF: Additional DX Cluster spots 16th Jan
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 22:55:19 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Additional spots for 16th Jan

G3NYK de GB7DXM   16-Jan 2249Z >
   136.9  OE5ODL      16-Jan-2000 1930Z  559 cq

   137.1  OE5ODL      16-Jan-2000 1939Z  calling cq

   136.5  DJ9IE           16-Jan-2000 1940Z  579 here

   136.8  OE5ODL      16-Jan-2000 1930Z  559 cq

   136.7  OE5ODX      16-Jan-2000 1933Z  calling cq

   136.6  DJ6FU         16-Jan-2000 1657Z  449


73 de Alan G3NYK
Alan.Melia@btinternet.com




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 21887 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 01:30:02 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 01:30:02 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12A0r1-0003AK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 01:21:11 +0000
Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.70]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12A0r0-0003AA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 01:21:10 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id l.9a.ba5af (4316) for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:20:33 -0500 (EST)
From: G0MRF@aol.com
Message-ID: <9a.ba5af.25b3c860@aol.com>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:20:32 EST
Subject: LF: Re: Transatlantic
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 137
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

In a message dated 1/16/00 10:44:27 GMT Daylight Time, blanch@pncl.co.uk 
writes:

<< Yes - if he can hear anything behind the 750 kW Loran transmitter at Cape 
 Race!!!!
 
 
 Walter G3JKV.
  >>

Hello Group.

Walter, raises a very pertinent topic. What is reception like over there?

With 750kW of Loran in Cape Race, there would seem to be little point trying 
to use 
St Johns as a QTH. But is there another location where the QRM would be 
acceptable?

A question, well actually two:
1)  What is the ERP of the Loran station at Lessay on the French coast?
2) Is Cape Race THE Loran station for the NW Atlantic or are there more 
stations to the North in Labrador?

QRM from Loran in Southern UK is well documented. At G3LDO's QTH it is severe 
but the 200k Path from Lessay to Worthing is abt 160km sea and 40k land.
Here in West London the Loran is much less of a problem. The path length is 
only 260km but is about 50:50 land to sea. It appears that the 'land' - 
perhaps the two ranges of hills in particular, add a significant amount to 
the attenuation.

I notice that Cape Race is in the far SE part of VO1.
If land does attenuate the Loran significantly, and the ERPs are similar, 
then a site >300k away from Cape Race could be a reasonable site for a 
Transatlantic attempt.
As we're all in a speculative frame of mind, how about somewhere between 
Carmanville and Lewisporte?  320km and 90%  overland from Cape Race.

1W ERP should make it across, but it will need good planning and a bit of 
technology.
I wonder if this time next year someone will have claimed those trophies?

73

David    G0MRF


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 20419 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 05:31:18 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 05:31:18 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12A4ed-0004av-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 05:24:39 +0000
Received: from as-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.148] helo=spamgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12A4ec-0004ao-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 05:24:38 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id AAA11967 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 00:24:25 -0500 (EST)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 00:24:03 -0500
From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Subject: LF: Can you do me a favour?
To: "Reflector" 
Message-ID: <200001170024_MC2-9503-3C1C@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Disposition: inline
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Dear friends,

my father Butz, DL6PE, celebrates his 75th birthday on January 18, 2000. He
lives about 300 km away, so besides some bottles of redwine that I have
send my snailmail, he knows that he will receive an e-mail from me.

Although he is not active on LF himself (and he is not on this reflector),
he always is interested in my LF activity and has been in my shack during a
couple of nice LF-DX QSOs. Since is is a retired professor of physics, he
is always the right person for me to discuss propagation, antennas, etc.
with him.

Despite the fact that you probably never had a QSO with him (he is QRV in
CW on HF), could you please send him an e-mail on the occasion of his
birthday? I would love to see his face when he opens his e-mail box and
sees a couple of dozens mails from all over the world ...

His e-mail address is 

        dl6pe@t-online.de

Thank you very much for your help,

best 73


Geri, DK8KW (W1KW)
http://www.qru.de


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 19346 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 08:59:05 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 08:59:05 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12A7tn-0005un-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 08:52:31 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12A7tl-0005ui-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 08:52:29 +0000
Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA48600 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:52:25 +0100
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000117105039.0817cf64@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be>
X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:50:39
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Rik Strobbe" 
Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic
In-reply-to: <388286AC.2ACD0DEE@netscapeonline.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

The best way to find out wether we can cross the pond on 136kHz is to try it.
What I have in mind is a transatlantic test, similar to what we did last
year in cooperation with N4ICK, but with a much larger group of listeners
at the W/VE side. There are plenty of 'lowfers' in USA/Canada that are well
equipped for listening in the 160-190kHz segment, it should not be too hard
for them to adapt their receivers/antennas to 136kHz.
So my suggestion is that we take a weekend (somewhere in february ?) that
the Europeans transmit on 136kHz and the Americans listen (look) for us.
We can announce this event via this reflector, the LCWA webpage, the AMRAD
webpage and eventually also via topband reflectors.

Best chances will be using slow-CW techniques at our side and have the
Americans looking for us using GRAM or similar software. 
Regarding transmitting antennas, stations with long horizontal wires also
produce very good signals, not only the sky-high verticals. So I think
there will be a lot more suitable stations than the 'happy few' on Mal's
list. Besides half a dozen UK stations (including GW4ALG if he can use his
'balloon antenna') there are EI0CF, the 3 SM's and the 2 OH's. For these
last the distance may be more, but they have the advantage of their more
northern position with a (part of the) propagation path that is in the dark
for almost 24h/day.

So, what do you think of this idea ? Will we set a weekend and try to get
the Americans listening (looking) for us ?

73, Rik  ON7YD



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 4332 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 10:47:47 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 10:47:47 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12A9O0-0006Xf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:27:48 +0000
Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12A9Nx-0006Xa-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:27:45 +0000
Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #35) id 12A9NN-0003RT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:27:10 +0000
Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:15:30 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
From: "Mike Dennison" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:15:29 -0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic
In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.20000117105039.0817cf64@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be>
References: <388286AC.2ACD0DEE@netscapeonline.co.uk>
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11)
X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq
Message-ID: 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

ON7YD wrote:
> The best way to find out wether we can cross the pond on 136kHz is to try
> it. What I have in mind is a transatlantic test, similar to what we did
> last year in cooperation with N4ICK, but with a much larger group of
> listeners at the W/VE side. There are plenty of 'lowfers' in USA/Canada
> that are well equipped for listening in the 160-190kHz segment, it should
> not be too hard for them to adapt their receivers/antennas to 
>136kHz. 

Yes, but first things first. I have not yet found a US station who has 
confirmed hearing DCF39. Amateur signals are going to be some 
70dB weaker.

Let's hope that last weekend's tests produced just such a report.



Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT)
http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 5039 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 10:49:33 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 10:49:33 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12A9O7-0006Xm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:27:55 +0000
Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12A9O6-0006Xh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:27:54 +0000
Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #35) id 12A9NV-0003Sj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:27:18 +0000
Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:23:20 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
From: "Mike Dennison" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:23:19 -0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: Re: LF: DX Cluster spots on GB7DXM for 15/16 Jan
In-reply-to: <000f01bf604a$4da88780$c09101d5@default>
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11)
X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq
Message-ID: 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

G3NYK reported from the DXCluster:
>   1800.0  EU              11-Jan-2000 1649Z  eu bc 5/5 160-190 khz
> 

Now, if VE1ZZ is listening on LF there is a good chance of a 
transatlantic QSO. He is very successful on all bands from 1.8 to 
50MHz, with lots a real estate and - most importantly - an 
experimenter's mind. Someone to encourage.



Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT)
http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 26908 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 11:06:39 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 11:06:39 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12A9nQ-0006kJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:54:04 +0000
Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12A9nP-0006kD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:54:03 +0000
Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #35) id 12A9mp-0005q4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:53:28 +0000
Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:50:44 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
From: "Mike Dennison" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:50:43 -0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: Re: LF: PA0SE and DK8KW field strength observations combined
In-reply-to: <200001160540_MC2-94F7-C57D@compuserve.com>
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11)
X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq
Message-ID: 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

DK8KW wrote:
> I have found Dick's (PA0SE) field strength measurements of last weekend
> very interesting. I have used Dick's observations, "normalized2 them to
> dBu (0 dBu=0.775 V at 75 Ohm, so simply substract 10 dB from a dBm(50) and
> you have got dBu(75)) and calculated the distances according to Dick's
> QTH-Locator. A combined grpah shows both our observations in one single
> plot.
>  http://www.qru.de/signals.html

This is a fascinating graph from which all sorts of things can be 
deduced.

One interesting thing is the "estimated 1W ERP line". I would have 
expected several stations to be very near (dare I say 'over') that line 
but most are a few dB below it. Doing a calculation on my own dot 
on Geri's graph (from Dick's measurement) suggests that my ERP is 
6dB less than I calculate from the current and effective height.

So, is there something wrong with the 1W ERP line or with our ERP 
calculations, or with the signal measurements? My money is on the 
1W line being too high, but perhaps Geri and others with bigger 
brains than me can come up with the answer.

Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT)
http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 8727 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 11:12:14 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 11:12:14 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12A9yB-0006rA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:05:11 +0000
Received: from mail11.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.23]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12A9yA-0006r5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:05:10 +0000
Received: from modem-85.longnose-hawk.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.40.85] helo=lvm) by mail11.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12A9y6-00010R-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:05:06 +0000
Message-ID: <000201bf60da$aebb22e0$5528893e@lvm>
From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" 
To: "rsgb lf group" 
Subject: LF: G3KEV LF Transatlantic.
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:02:22 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit










Whilst I agree that height is very important 
from the transmit point of view,please dont forget the recieving problem,where 
big is not neccessarily best!  I dont think we should discourage 
anyone,  In fact I should like to see listening tests on this side ,with 
others possibly without big antennas joining in. 73s 
Laurie.


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 16919 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 11:33:50 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 11:33:50 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AAHa-0006yV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:25:14 +0000
Received: from cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.174]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AAHW-0006yQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:25:11 +0000
Received: from modem-29.doctor.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.111.157] helo=lvm) by cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12AAHS-0007cz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:25:07 +0000
Message-ID: <000201bf60dd$7a39a3e0$9d6f883e@lvm>
From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" 
To: "rsgb lf group" 
Subject: LF: Re. LF Transatlantic tests RIK/DAVID.
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:22:32 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit










Great Rik just what I would like to see! 



David re.Loran, I an in the 
worst position here since I am only 150Km from Lessay with a mainly sea path 
between,but  I have managed to reject it and still hear very well from the 
NW and SE. So a site in VO1 at 90 degrees to the Cape Race transmitter would 
enable an antenna similar to mine to reject the interference.By the way I belive 
I have a greater than 30db null.73s Laurie. 


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 28800 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 12:22:59 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 12:22:59 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AB1F-0007En-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:12:25 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AB1D-0007Ei-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:12:24 +0000
Received: from [195.44.220.178] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AB19-0001xF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:12:19 +0000
Message-ID: <38837377.985BD716@netscapeonline.co.uk>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:54:31 -0800
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Transatlantic
References: <388286AC.2ACD0DEE@netscapeonline.co.uk> <02ed01bf605e$2d643f00$0600a8c0@main>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 



Dave wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Assuming that we're sticking to 1W erp then what does it matter how big the
> antenna is as long as the power is sufficient to  give the required erp?

There is a big difference in the radiation pattern and angle of take off between
a high vertical antenna and a very low antenna given the same rf power to the
antenna. 1 Watt erp from a dummy load or low horizontal wire is hardly the same
as 1 Watt erp from a vertical antenna at 120 ft. There is also the RX
consideration especially on long haul signals. At LF the delivery system ie
ANTENNA is the most important factor. Even with large towers, and high elaborate
antennas, which are still physically small relative to 137 khz and a limit of 1W
erp, one has to realize the limitations, but at least there might be a chance.
73 de Mal/G3KEV



>
> CFH peaks 33dB above the noise regularly (in 100Hz filter). If its erp is
> around 8kW as rumoured then a 4W erp signal would be on the noise level,
> normal good copy, and a 1W signal would be 6dB down. No problem for
> Spectrogram.
>
> There is a VE station building for the band and he intends to try some tests
> next "fall" from VO1. That should do it!
>
> 73 de G3YXM.




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 6622 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 14:34:30 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 14:34:30 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AD5B-0008FU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 14:24:37 +0000
Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AD58-0008FP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 14:24:34 +0000
Received: from [195.92.67.23] (helo=mail18.svr.pol.co.uk) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12AD55-0004JQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 14:24:31 +0000
Received: from modem-161.ocellaris-clown.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.48.161] helo=default) by mail18.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12AD53-0003GT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 14:24:30 +0000
Message-ID: <000101bf60f6$ab9a4a20$a130893e@default>
From: "wireless" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
References: <388286AC.2ACD0DEE@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Subject: LF: Re: Transatlantic
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 14:23:29 -0000
Organization: T@ylor Training
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Let's get a date fixed and allocate frequencies as soon as possible.  I will
fire up the 1kW amplifier again and, subject to there being no storms,  will
try out my Stratoscoop 4 kite as aerial lifter.  This kite has lifted a
heavy dustbin high into the sky during tests (in a remote spot, please
note!) and should find a 1000ft. vertical no problem.  Assistance is always
welcome as the pull from the kite is pretty terrifying.
73
John Taylor  G0AKN
earth@wireless.freeserve.co.uk




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 3150 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 14:53:02 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 14:53:02 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ADN6-0008ME-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 14:43:08 +0000
Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ADN5-0008M4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 14:43:07 +0000
Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12ADKX-0005Iw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 14:40:29 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <28149.200001171447@gemini>
From: "James Moritz" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: University of Hertfordshire
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 14:47:44 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: LF: Congested band conditions on 73kHz /ERP
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11)
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Dear LF Group,
	I greatly enjoyed the friday night activities on 73kHz, being able 
to work 4 other stations with 'armchair' copy at one sitting. They 
were, starting about 20.20pm: G3XDV (589), G0MRF (569), 
G3XTZ (569), and a couple of hours later, a brief QSO with Paul, 
G0ONA (559). I have not heard Paul before on LF, is he a member 
of the Whitton Club? Thanks also for the listener reports from 
G4CNN, G3YMC and G3NYK.

It seems that this does not exhaust the possibilities for 2-way 
manual CW QSOs on the band, so we will have to have another go 
soon.

Also over the weekend, I finally found a sound card that worked, 
and now have Spectrogram 5.0 running on my computer. I was 
able to copy G3XTZ, G3LDO, and G3YXM  operating QRSS just 
after midnight last night. I also installed ON7YD's QRS software, 
which is looking good too. My tests so far show that my TX and RX 
have adequate frequency stability, in spite of both using free-
running VFO's, for QRSS operation, so I hope to get going using 
this mode very shortly.

With regard to antennas, it seems that even quite modest 
increases in height lead to worthwhile improvements in
signal strength. Originaly, my inverted L was only 5m high,
I have now raised one end to 8.5m by replacing the TV aerial pole 
on my bungalow with a length of scaffold tube, which can take the 
extra sideways pull of the wire antenna. Together with two 
telescopic fibreglass poles, I can get the average height of the top  
part to about 8m. This led to reduced loss on 73kHz (ant current 
1.2 amps from 0.9), and my signal report from G3XDV went up by 3 
S points. I hope it will produce improvements on 136kHz too, 
although I am restricting myself to using the full set-up during 
darkness, so as not to upset my neighbors.

Regarding ERP, it seems to me that the text book formulae for 
ERP, being based on radiation and loss resistance of the antenna, 
can't take into account losses in objects like trees, buildings, phone 
wires, which although outside the near field of the antenna, and 
therefore not directly affecting the radiated power, must absorb 
some of the radiated signal. I would guess that in circumstances 
like my own, where nearby trees & buildings are taller than my 
antenna, the losses could be quite large. Therefore, the calculated 
ERP will always be an optimistic 'theoretical maximum', and the 
real value will be less. This won't matter much on receive, since 
the QRM and QRN will be attenuated by the same amount as the 
signal. 

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 13472 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 15:11:54 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 15:11:54 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ADcK-0008T5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 14:58:52 +0000
Received: from as-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.146] helo=spamgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ADcJ-0008T0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 14:58:51 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id JAA26647 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:58:47 -0500 (EST)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:58:27 -0500
From: "Holger 'Geri', DK8KW" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Subject: Re: LF: PA0SE and DK8KW field strength observations combined
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Message-ID: <200001170958_MC2-9511-42B5@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Disposition: inline
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hello Mike and all others interested in their performance (signal-wise),

thank you for your comments. I knew this 1 W ERP line and the measurements
would create some discussions   ;-)

Mike, G3XDV wrote:

>So, is there something wrong with the 1W ERP line or with our ERP 
>calculations, or with the signal measurements? My money is on the 
>1W line being too high, but perhaps Geri and others with bigger 
>brains than me can come up with the answer.<

well, as far as I recall, I developed the estimated 1 W ERP line from some
assumptions:

1. I assumed  that everybody sticks to the law and the highest signal
levels would roughly be in the 1 Watt ERP range

2. I used the CCIR curves for signal strength vs. distance to estimate how
a 1 Watt ERP signal would develop vs. distance

3. I tried to find a "best fit" so that I have an envelope curve fitting to
the strongest signals in the U.K. and OH assuming those would be coming
close to 1 Watt ERP.

4. The difference between the 1 W ERP line and the commercials is
approximately 40 to 45 dB, this would come close to the 25 to 100 kW ERP
(?) those stations might have.

Alan, G3NYK has asked me to supply a graph with a logarithmic distance
scale, which I will put on that page (http://www.qru.de/signals.html) later
today. Alan mentioned that my 1W ERP  line drops at 30dB per decade while
20 dB per decade would fit better for most of the signals, so that this
might give another picture (I will play around with these figures a little
bit tonight).

On the other hand, there is Vaino's (OH2LX) comment, that according to his
long-lasting experience it is not possible to estimate a station's ERP from
the field strength at a far distance ...

Anyhow, what you can do ois to compare you own signal to the signal of a
neighbor station, especially, if the measurments were taken in the same
instance (as Dick did it). My measurments might be a little bit misleading
in this respect, because they were taken over a long period of time.
However, the results did fit very nicely ... and shows the poor German's
QRP situation, too (provided we all stick to the law ... ;-).

Best 73

Geri, DK8KW (W1KW)



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 18239 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 17:12:13 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 17:12:13 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AFYY-0000qQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:03:06 +0000
Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AFYV-0000qL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:03:03 +0000
Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12AFYI-0002D6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:02:51 +0000
Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:59:30 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
From: "Mike Dennison" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:59:27 -0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: Re: LF: PA0SE and DK8KW field strength observations combined
In-reply-to: <200001170958_MC2-9511-42B5@compuserve.com>
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11)
X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq
Message-ID: 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

DK8KW wrote:
> On the other hand, there is Vaino's (OH2LX) comment, that according to his
> long-lasting experience it is not possible to estimate a station's ERP
> from the field strength at a far distance ...
> 

Well, that's the point I was trying to find out. I wondered whether I 
could calculate my ERP from your graph, and plainly I could not. 
But is this Vaino's theory, or something else. If we could sort this 
one out, it would validate (or more likely quantify) Mal's comment 
that 1W ERP from a small antenna will be worse than the same ERP 
from a large one - at a distance of course.

All very interesting indeed. Although some people dislike the league 
table approach, I personally find these measurements very useful in 
my own ongoing efforts to get a good signal out of a small garden. 
And comparing my efforts to those of other people is a good way to 
keep up my enthusiasm to do better.

Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT)
http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 26520 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 17:29:14 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 17:29:14 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AFhL-0000w0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:12:11 +0000
Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AFhI-0000vt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:12:10 +0000
Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12AFh4-0003Kj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:11:55 +0000
Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:01:59 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
From: "Mike Dennison" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:01:53 -0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Transatlantic
In-reply-to: <000101bf60f6$ab9a4a20$a130893e@default>
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11)
X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq
Message-ID: 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

G0AKN wrote:
> . . . .  will try out my Stratoscoop 4 kite as aerial lifter.  This kite
> has lifted a heavy dustbin high into the sky during tests (in a remote
> spot, please note!) and should find a 1000ft. vertical no problem. 

John, beware that there is a 200ft height limit on kites in the UK 
without special permission (presumably from Air Traffic Control).





Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT)
http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 24726 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 18:25:59 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 18:25:59 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AGjP-0001NW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:18:23 +0000
Received: from snowball-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.116] helo=snowball.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AGjN-0001NN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:18:21 +0000
Received: from magic.excite.com ([199.172.148.161]) by ewey.excite.com         (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP         id <20000117181416.FAPV2435.ewey.excite.com@magic.excite.com>         for ;         Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:14:16 -0800
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <18444700.948132856629.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:14:16 -0800 (PST)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
From: "john sexton" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Re: Sound cards
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Mailer: Excite Inbox
X-Sender-Ip: 213.1.31.138
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

How to set up your Sound card under Windows 95

So you have a Sound card, but it doesn't work properly, what to do? You try
Windows Help and you get nowhere. We have all been through this, so I
thought you might like the benefit of my experience.

(Where not otherwise stated all 'picks' are with the left mouse button)

1) Pick My Computer with the right mouse button
2) Pick Properties
3) Pick Device Manager
4) Find Sound, Video & Game Controllers
5) If there is a + against it, click the plus so that it expands
Your Sound card or On-board device should be listed. If it is not, you
probably haven't got one. If you do have one, try the "installing new
hardware" entry from the Control Panel.
Your card is listed but it has a yellow cross against it. This means that it
has a conflict with another device or card.
If it has a red cross against it, it has been disabled.
6) In either of these cases double click on the device.
In the next window it should show "This device is working properly" but
probably won't.
If a red cross was displayed at 5, you will see that the device is disabled
in this configuration. Change this, press OK and restart your computer.
However you may find multiple copies listed of devices that you have. This
is because Windows tends to be over zealous in finding devices at start-up.
In which case the red cross against one of them is OK. You can try removing
the duplicate, but you may well find that Windows finds it and re-installs
the second copy again at the next start-up. In which case disable it.
7) If a yellow cross was displayed at 5 click on Resources.
8) If Auto-settings is on, turn it off and then change the settings until
the conflicts are removed. You may get dire warnings of impending doom from
Windows, but you can safely ignore them. If later you decide that it is all
a ghastly mistake and you should have listened to the warnings, it is always
possible to restore the status quo, by restarting Windows, stepping through
as above to stage 6. Remove the device by clicking the Remove button.
Restart Windows and let Windows find it and re-install it.. So rest assured
that the warnings can be ignored. The main thing is to get rid of the
conflicts so that the sound card works.
Close device manager and restart Windows.
9) Open Control Panel and click on Multimedia. If not already on, turn on
"Show Volume Control on Task Bar". Set the preferred device to be your Sound
card and set Playback and Recording levels to mid-way. This will not be
possible if the device is not installed properly.
10) Pick the Advanced tab and check the Audio devices, Mixer devices, Line
Input devices. Use properties to change as necessary.
Use OK to close.
11) You may also find a Sound card or Device icon on the Control Panel,
which will give you further controls. Further you can pick 'Sounds' from the
Control Panel and set the sounds that you like or better still pick the 'No
Sounds' or 'None' scheme.
Close Control Panel.
12) You will now have an icon of a loudspeaker on the task bar. Use the left
mouse button to set a suitable volume level. Click on the desktop to close
this.
13) Click the loudspeaker icon with the right button and pick 'Open Volume
Controls'.
14) Pick the Options  menu and pick 'Properties' on this menu. For Playback
tick all devices and then OK. Now all the volume controls for playback will
be displayed. Select and set suitable levels (mid to low) for each device.
You can always change them later.
15) Again, pick the Options  menu and pick 'Properties' on this menu. Pick
'Recording' and tick all devices and then OK. Now all the volume controls
for recording will be displayed. Select and set suitable levels (mid to low)
for each device. You can always change them later.
Close this window and all is done until you decide to change everything
again.
73s John, GCNN





_______________________________________________________
Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
Visit http://freeworld.excite.com



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 8499 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 18:56:19 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 18:56:19 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AHD1-0001ZA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:48:59 +0000
Received: from as-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.144] helo=spamgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AHCz-0001Z5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:48:58 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id NAA23388 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:48:51 -0500 (EST)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:48:09 -0500
From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Subject: Re: LF: PA0SE and DK8KW field strength observations combined
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Message-ID: <200001171348_MC2-9517-5A32@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Disposition: inline
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hello YL or OM,

regarding the actual 1 W ERP discussion I have got another one:

have a look at 

        http://www.qru.de/signals.html

and go down to Figure 4 (the last graph on that page, if it doesn't appear,
press the "reload" button). 

Following Alan's (G3NYK) advise, this graph has a logarithmic scale for the
distance (Excel is such a nice program to play around with). Also,
according a suggetsion of Alan, I have changed the dB to distance ratio to
20 dB per decade. This fits very well with the upper envelope of all ham
stations heard, and also it fits well to the commercials.

Well, it all depends on what ERP the commercials have (we discussed that
earlier, I know), but the best signal report I can give to the strongest of
you is 55 dB below any of the commercials. So, even if we assume that the
DLF on 153 kHz has 100 kW, this would mean that none of you comes even
close to 1 Watt ERP, but you are even 5 dB below that. DCF39 probably even
only has 25 kW ERP ...

This would probably mean that none of our amateur antenna has the
efficiency we believe it would have ... so all you guys with 1 Watt ERP
allowance, start to build PAs or raise your antennas ...

Some food for thought!


vy 73
 
Geri, DK8KW (W1KW)

P.S.: don't forget my father butz: dl6pe@t-online.de (see my previous
message:"Can you do me a favour?")
 
  



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 12175 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 19:03:32 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 19:03:32 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AHMQ-0001eF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:58:42 +0000
Received: from as-img-6.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.151] helo=spamgaaf.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AHMP-0001eA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:58:41 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaaf.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id NAA27777 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:58:35 -0500 (EST)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:57:14 -0500
From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Transatlantic
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Message-ID: <200001171357_MC2-9517-5B3C@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Disposition: inline
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

... talking about kites:

there is a wonderful place in the Republic of Ireland (I am a fan of Irish
Music, see http://www.piperswine.de) south of Doolin at the west coast of
the island. Here a cliff goes about 400m vertical down to the sea and the
spot is accessible by car (with all the kind of infrastructure you would
expect at such a place: a pub and a restaurant, as far as I remember).

Imagine, putting 400m of wire down into the sea and have a kite 400 or 500m
upwards in the sky (provided, the Irish Air Traffic Control gives us the
permission, but I am sure Finbar has got also some connections there...).
This would make a marvelous vertical dipole and even with 1 Watt power into
the antenna we should be able to cross the Atlantic.

I am volunteering to hold the kite, what about this summer? And, like
Marconi did nearly 100 years ago: whom do we send on the other side to
listen?


Best 73

Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) 


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 25590 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 19:25:06 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 19:25:06 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AHev-0001m2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:17:49 +0000
Received: from mb09.swip.net ([193.12.122.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AHeu-0001lu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:17:48 +0000
Received: from win95 (d212-151-93-66.swipnet.se [212.151.93.66])          by mb09.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP          id UAA09251 for ;          Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:17:20 +0100 (MET)
Message-ID: <002701bf611f$f13499e0$425d97d4@win95.swipnet.se>
From: "Christer Andersson" 
To: "RSGB LF group" 
Subject: LF: Sound card receiver
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:20:00 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Sometimes I use my sound card as a VLF receiver, using Spectrogram and the antenna connected to the mic input.

It would be nice also to listen to the signals. What software/procedure to use?

73
Christer
SM6PXJ



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 19236 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 19:25:56 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 19:25:56 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AHet-0001lt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:17:47 +0000
Received: from mb09.swip.net ([193.12.122.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AHer-0001lo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:17:46 +0000
Received: from win95 (d212-151-93-66.swipnet.se [212.151.93.66])          by mb09.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP          id UAA09093 for ;          Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:17:17 +0100 (MET)
Message-ID: <002601bf611f$ef570040$425d97d4@win95.swipnet.se>
From: "Christer Andersson" 
To: "RSGB LF group" 
Subject: LF: Loading
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:11:31 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

I have some thoughts concerning loading of a vertical.

Often it is impractical to use centre loading.
Assume I have an existing 20 m high vertical.
Take a wooden pole, 10 m high. Put a loading coil at top of it.
Place the wooden pole 1-2 m from the vertical.
Connect the base of the vertical to one end of the loading coil.
The other end of the coil goes to the feed point via a vertically oriented downlead wire/tubing.

This technique is well known as linear loading disregarding the loading coil.
Would it be worth a try or is it something I have missed?

73
Christer
SM6PXJ




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 18342 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 20:11:35 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 20:11:35 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AIM6-00024b-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:02:26 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AIM5-00024W-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:02:25 +0000
Received: from [195.44.222.182] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AIM0-0006Hm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:02:21 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3883E381.EA20FFDF@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:52:34 -0800
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: G3KEV LF Transatlantic.
References: <000201bf60da$aebb22e0$5528893e@lvm>
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit




 

LAWRENCE MAYHEAD wrote:

 Whilst
I agree that height is very important from the transmit point of view,please
dont forget the recieving problem,where big is not neccessarily best! 
I dont think we should discourage anyone,  In fact I should like to
see listening tests on this side ,with others possibly without big antennas
joining in. 73s Laurie.

 

This is the first time that I have
heard the theory that a small antenna, especially on LF out performs a
large full size one for the frequency, or as near to it as you can get. 
That is like saying do not use a full size 40 metre dipole because a piece
of wire lying on or near the ground is better. I am waiting for someone
soon to say  that a half size G5RV will out perform all others !!!!

Over the years I have tried all
sorts of antennas large and small for both TX and RX and there is no doubt
that the larger antennas has the advantage in all cases. On RX a small
antenna does not have the capture area to produce a good strong signal.

If you must use a small antenna
for other considerations, like you are afraid of heights, have strange
neighbours, do not like planning procedures, xyl thinks its ugly, what
the postman might think, have a qrn problem and you want to null it out,
that is fine but do not make excuses and take a dislike to those that are
not effected by the above observations.

I am encouraged by those that put
effort into their systems and antennas and I try to follow. To suggest
that one is DISCOURAGING is gibberish.





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 18356 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 20:11:38 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 20:11:38 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AIM3-00024U-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:02:23 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AIM2-00024P-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:02:22 +0000
Received: from [195.44.222.182] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AILy-0006HH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:02:18 +0000
Message-ID: <3883DD26.FA81563C@netscapeonline.co.uk>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:25:26 -0800
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: PA0SE and DK8KW field strength observations combined
References: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 



Mike Dennison wrote:

> DK8KW wrote:
> > On the other hand, there is Vaino's (OH2LX) comment, that according to his
> > long-lasting experience it is not possible to estimate a station's ERP
> > from the field strength at a far distance ...
> >
>
> Well, that's the point I was trying to find out. I wondered whether I
> could calculate my ERP from your graph, and plainly I could not.
> But is this Vaino's theory, or something else. If we could sort this
> one out, it would validate (or more likely quantify) Mal's comment
> that 1W ERP from a small antenna will be worse than the same ERP
> from a large one - at a distance of course

> Good suggestion and basic theory/practical applications dictates that the
> higher antenna must certainly be better in all respects. You must already have
> heard about the amateur who loaded his LF rig into a 10 km farmers fence and
> got the perfect match but  COULD NOT RADIATE  THE SIGNAL BEYOND A FEW METRES.
> Had he used a vertical antenna configuration at say 40 meters high he  would
> have radiated the signal possible 2000 k/metres and more. Commercial stations
> even with their MEGAWATTS use extremely high antennas towers up to 350 metres
> and maybe higher. Why do they bother if they could get away with a piece of
> wire a few metres above the ground.

The league table approach separates the MEN from the BOYS hi !!! and hopefully
encourages the BOYS to get into MANHOOD !!!!!
You do not need a lot of REAL ESTATE for vertical antennas, a few square metres
is all that is  required, any small back garden is ideal. A 5 section STRUMECH
100 ft tower has a base area of 1metre sq. - No more excuses about small back
yards.
73 de Mal/G3KEV



>

>
>
> All very interesting indeed. Although some people dislike the league
> table approach, I personally find these measurements very useful in
> my own ongoing efforts to get a good signal out of a small garden.
> And comparing my efforts to those of other people is a good way to
> keep up my enthusiasm to do better.
>
> Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT)
> http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 18391 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 20:11:43 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 20:11:43 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AILx-00024N-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:02:17 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AILv-00024I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:02:15 +0000
Received: from [195.44.222.182] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AILr-0006Gm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:02:12 +0000
Message-ID: <3883D76C.E608FA8@netscapeonline.co.uk>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:01:00 -0800
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic
References: <3.0.1.16.20000117105039.0817cf64@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 



Rik Strobbe wrote:

> The best way to find out wether we can cross the pond on 136kHz is to try it.
> What I have in mind is a transatlantic test, similar to what we did last
> year in cooperation with N4ICK, but with a much larger group of listeners
> at the W/VE side. There are plenty of 'lowfers' in USA/Canada that are well
> equipped for listening in the 160-190kHz segment, it should not be too hard
> for them to adapt their receivers/antennas to 136kHz.
> So my suggestion is that we take a weekend (somewhere in february ?) that
> the Europeans transmit on 136kHz and the Americans listen (look) for us.
> We can announce this event via this reflector, the LCWA webpage, the AMRAD
> webpage and eventually also via topband reflectors.
>
> Best chances will be using slow-CW techniques at our side and have the
> Americans looking for us using GRAM or similar software.
> Regarding transmitting antennas, stations with long horizontal wires also
> produce very good signals, not only the sky-high verticals.

Your neighbour just down the road would agree but long haul DX no chance !!!

> So I think
> there will be a lot more suitable stations than the 'happy few' on Mal's
> list. Besides half a dozen UK stations (including GW4ALG if he can use his
> 'balloon antenna') there are EI0CF, the 3 SM's and the 2 OH's. For these
> last the distance may be more, but they have the advantage of their more
> northern position with a (part of the) propagation path that is in the dark
> for almost 24h/day.
>
> So, what do you think of this idea ? Will we set a weekend and try to get
> the Americans listening (looking) for us ?
>
> 73, Rik  ON7YD





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 7863 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 20:12:01 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 20:12:01 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AINL-00024o-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:03:43 +0000
Received: from [199.172.153.144] (helo=curly.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AINK-00024i-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:03:43 +0000
Received: from magic.excite.com ([199.172.148.161]) by gigi.excite.com         (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP         id <20000117200256.HJLL3471.gigi.excite.com@magic.excite.com>         for ;         Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:02:56 -0800
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <16708966.948139376885.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:02:56 -0800 (PST)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
From: "john sexton" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Sound card receiver
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Mailer: Excite Inbox
X-Sender-Ip: 213.1.12.197
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hi Christer,
I posted some info about Sound Cards on the reflector tonight, but there
were a couple of things I forgot to mention which are probably relevant to
your query. Assuming that you have some speakers plugged in. Pick the
Loudspeaker icon with the right mouse button. Pick "Open Volume Controls".
On the Options menu, make sure that Advanced Controls is ticked, then pick
the Advanced button at the bottom. On the next window at the bottom left is
an item labelled something like "3D Effect Enable". Turn this on and pick
Close. Go to the Options menu again and pick "Properties". On the next
Window pick "Recording" and OK. The Recording volume controls are then
displayed. Pick the Advanced button and in the next window down at bottom on
the left is a button, with a title "Recording Input Monitor". Turn this on
and exit with OK. Close the Volume controls. You should now be able to hear
your input provided that Line-in or Microphone was also turned on as
described in my earlier E-mail.

73s John, G4CNN





_______________________________________________________
Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
Visit http://freeworld.excite.com



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 19315 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 20:34:28 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 20:34:28 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AIj3-0002Ca-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:26:09 +0000
Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.88]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AIj2-0002CV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:26:08 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12AIiy-0000lg-0U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:26:05 +0000
Message-ID: <3882D76D.B47C010C@alg.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 08:48:46 +0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
From: "Steve Rawlings" 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "LF Group" 
Subject: LF: Weekend Report, 15/16 Jan 99
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

After 2 months of wind and rain, we finally had some calm weather in SE
Wales.  So I managed to get my 20 m balloon-supported vertical up on
Saturday; and also kept the two helium-filled balloons flying for most
of Sunday!

Even though I live on the estuary of the River Severn, at the junction
of two rivers, there were many times during Sunday when the wire was
held exactly vertical by the balloons.

I was delighted to contact many fellow LF'ers for the first in time in
several weeks, and I also worked some new ones: DJ9IE; G3KMP; ON6UX; and
G3DQC.  (24 QSOs in total, as listed below.)  The noise sidebands from
the Loran TX in France was S7/8 on the vertical for much of Sunday - so
it's a good thing I have my delta loop (with its excellent null to the
south) to use on receive.

My thanks to Rik ON7YD who called me at 20:00 on Sunday to let me know
that OE5ODL was active.  Unfortunately, propagation was not good, and
the wind speed was starting to increase . . . .

Regards to all,
Steve GW4ALG







From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 28488 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 22:20:10 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 22:20:10 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AKMD-0002xl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:10:41 +0000
Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AKM9-0002xg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:10:39 +0000
Received: from modem-55.name69.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.194.55] helo=lvm) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12AKM3-0000UE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:10:31 +0000
Message-ID: <000201bf6137$a3cbc800$37c2883e@lvm>
From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" 
To: "rsgb lf group" 
Subject: LF: Re.L.F.Transatlantic
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:07:57 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit










OK Mal, but from the Rx point of view a strong 
signal is not important so long as it is enough to overcome reciever noise 
surely? It seems to me that what is important is sig/noise ratio and this 
depends not so much on the capture area  but more on the elevation 
angle,directivity etc. I also have experimented over the years  and am 
constantly amazed at what there is to be discovered,not the least on LF where 
many things are different especially the effects of ground.Anyway my remarks 
were not meant to be critical,they were intended to be constructive and I hope 
you have not taken offence.73s Laurie.


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 7871 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2000 23:46:09 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jan 2000 23:46:09 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ALNd-0003La-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 23:16:13 +0000
Received: from tk1.ihug.co.nz ([203.29.160.13] helo=smtp1.ihug.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ALNY-0003LV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 23:16:09 +0000
Received: from test (p20-max7.chc.ihug.co.nz [209.77.128.148]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA27201 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:15:42 +1300
Message-ID: <00c901bf6141$0b8b24a0$0200a8c0@test>
From: "Dave Brown" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
References: <3.0.1.16.20000117105039.0817cf64@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <3883D76C.E608FA8@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:17:23 +1300
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

 While it is generally correct to assume that bigger LF antennas will give
better results, there is an important limiting factor that means any amateur
'pond crossing' will not necessarily benefit from blindly following such
recommendations.
The propagation mechanism that will be involved is not necessarily
groundwave, highly unlikely in fact, and multihop skywave will I suggest be
the 'prime suspect'. I think there was a thread referring to this on this
reflector recently but with no archive I can't reference the discussion.
 That said, the use of larger verticals will not necessarily give the best
takeoff angle for the relatively poor skywave that they tend to produce.
Bigger ain't necessarily better in such cases. This is of course in direct
conflict with 'conventional' wisdom that is based on commercial practice
using groundwave only, not amateur 'limited' comms.
73
Dave
ZL3FJ




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 25465 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 02:02:17 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 02:02:17 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ANle-0004JZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:49:10 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from oso.slonet.org ([207.114.180.2] ident=cbuttsch) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ANld-0004JU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:49:10 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from localhost by oso.slonet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA09818; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:45:24 -0800 (PST)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:45:24 -0800 (PST)
From: "Clifford Buttschardt" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
To: "Frank Gentges" , 
 "Andre' Kesteloot" ,
  rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: 137 KHz in the Western US
In-reply-to: <00c901bf6141$0b8b24a0$0200a8c0@test>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Bill, WB6RIJ and I built a loop antenna of channel aluminum of
approximately three foot diameter of 17 turns.   This was resonated
on 137 KHz with about 150 pFd.  A one turn coupling loop was fed to
an old selective voltmeter as a receiver.  The US Navy station near
Sacramento, Calif, read 3 millivolts on this set up.  Unbelievable
strong signal 250 miles away.  Cliff Buttschardt K7RR



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 8219 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 04:33:16 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 04:33:16 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AQAK-0005MD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 04:22:48 +0000
Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.67]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AQAJ-0005M4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 04:22:47 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id l.85.b1aba0 (3976) for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 23:22:01 -0500 (EST)
From: WarmSpgs@aol.com
Message-ID: <85.b1aba0.25b54469@aol.com>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 23:22:01 EST
Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 70
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

      Dave Brown writes:
>That said, the use of larger verticals will not necessarily give the best
>takeoff angle for the relatively poor skywave that they tend to produce.
>Bigger ain't necessarily better in such cases. This is of course in direct
>conflict with 'conventional' wisdom that is based on commercial practice
>using groundwave only, not amateur 'limited' comms

Not exactly.  Commercial and military practice at MF and below often entails 
use of skywave, too, and we specifically use large verticals for their 
low-angle radiation characteristics to achieve best long range coverage.

The objective is twofold:  To minimize high angle radiation that sometimes 
results in  destructive interference to our groundwave (not a prime 
consideration for this effort, of course), and to maximize it at angles where 
the fewest possible hops will be required to reach the target, as multiple 
hops are disproportionately lossy.

Angles of departure well under five degrees will be necessary to cross the 
Atlantic in two or three hops.  An angle of 20 degrees could easily entail as 
many as 10 hops, with consequent extra loss.  However, one must get beyond a 
quarter wave antenna height before the vertical radiation pattern begins to 
concentrate significantly below 20 degrees.

I doubt many amateurs, even in the wide open spaces of Scotland, are likely 
to have, say, a half wavelength vertical at their disposal for 136 kHz.   
But bigger can still be better.  Anything that minimizes the number of hops 
will prove worthwhile; as, for that matter, will anything that makes it 
possible to achieve a full one watt ERP.  Larger antennas will certainly 
help, as will any and all loading tricks to linearize current in the vertical 
run.

73,
John  KD4IDY


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 29838 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 05:52:57 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 05:52:57 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ARUc-0005oX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 05:47:50 +0000
Received: from mb09.swip.net ([193.12.122.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ARUb-0005oS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 05:47:49 +0000
Received: from win95 (d212-151-43-79.swipnet.se [212.151.43.79])          by mb09.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP          id GAA21350 for ;          Tue, 18 Jan 2000 06:47:20 +0100 (MET)
Message-ID: <003601bf6177$f3781940$4f2b97d4@win95.swipnet.se>
From: "Christer Andersson" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Sound card receiver
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 06:50:38 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Is there a way to change the pitch of the incoming signal (in realtime), do some filtering etc?

sm6pxj





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 20407 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 08:59:01 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 08:59:01 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AUNQ-0006xQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:52:36 +0000
Received: from front6.grolier.fr ([194.158.96.56]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AUNM-0006xL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:52:32 +0000
Received: from club-internet.fr (ppp-44-34-250.wmar.club-internet.fr [213.44.34.250]) by front6.grolier.fr (8.9.3/No_Relay+No_Spam_MGC990224) with ESMTP id JAA17118 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:52:03 +0100 (MET)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3884299F.1049422C@club-internet.fr>
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:51:46 +0100
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
From: "M & S" 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [fr] (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-Accept-Language: fr,fr,es-ES
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: LORAN-C
References: <000001bf5f51$d60673c0$0600a8c0@main>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
 boundary="------------040908060201080704020506"
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------040908060201080704020506
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi folks!

Just for information, I've found and interesting Web page regarding
LORAN C. You'll find the complete list of transmitters, with their
locations and power output, at:

http://www.megapulse.com/table.html

When you click on the name of the site, you get a small map with the
approximate coverage of the transmitter. Maybe this would be of some help?

73, Mark, F6JSZ

P.S. Antenna projects are in progress: the 136 kHz half-wave dipôle is
coming to shape, but it will be in a squere configuration (like a
full-wave horizontal loop with a cut in the wire on the side opposite
the feedpoint). A big one! Hope it'll work...
--------------040908060201080704020506
Content-Type: image/gif;
 name="Lessay.gif"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: inline;
 filename="Lessay.gif"
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--------------040908060201080704020506--

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 20460 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 09:08:12 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 09:08:12 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AUVL-0006yV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:00:47 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AUVK-0006yQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:00:46 +0000
Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA107828 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:00:42 +0100
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000118105855.2ecf574c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be>
X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:58:55
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Rik Strobbe" 
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Transatlantic
In-reply-to: <38837377.985BD716@netscapeonline.co.uk>
References: <388286AC.2ACD0DEE@netscapeonline.co.uk><02ed01bf605e$2d643f00$0600a8c0@main>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

At 11:54 17/01/00 -0800, G3KEV wrote:
>There is a big difference in the radiation pattern and angle of take off 
>between a high vertical antenna and a very low antenna given the same rf
power 
>to the antenna. 1 Watt erp from a dummy load or low horizontal wire is
hardly 
>the same as 1 Watt erp from a vertical antenna at 120 ft. There is also
the RX
>consideration especially on long haul signals. At LF the delivery system ie
>ANTENNA is the most important factor. Even with large towers, and high 
>elaborate antennas, which are still physically small relative to 137 khz
and a 
>limit of 1W erp, one has to realize the limitations, but at least there
might 
>be a chance.

Indeed the radiation angle is important. But on longwave we have a very
strong groundwave, so radiation at 0 degrees (or close to that) might be
'bound to the earth' and not participate in the skywave. I am not sure that
a vertical is better for long distance propagation than a long horizontal
wire. Recently DJ9IE is using a horizontal wire (200m long at 15m hight)
and despite the fact that he is at only 200km from me I can notice up to
10dB 'QSB' on his signal at night. Other stations in the 200km range, using
more conventional Marconi antennas do not have this QSB.

73, Rik  ON7YD



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 12138 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 09:41:58 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 09:41:58 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AV4X-0007GF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:37:09 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AV4U-0007G9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:37:06 +0000
X-Priority: 3
Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA135216 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:37:02 +0100
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000118113515.2d2fe45e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be>
X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:35:15
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Rik Strobbe" 
Subject: LF: Men and boys
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

There is so much more needed to built a BIG vertical than just the will to
do it. A stable big vertical tower costs a lot of money (at least they're
not for free in Belgium), the authorities need a to give you permission to
built it and also your family and neighbourgs must agree (unless you play
'I am alone on the world' and don't care about others).
So a lot of us (I even dare to say most of us) will have to live as 'boys'
on LF and probably never will become 'men'. But this does not mean that we
have no chances to work nice 'DX'. First of all there is the 1 Watt ERP
level that limits the possibilities of the 'men' (unless they don't care
about the law) and further there is more needed than a BIG antenna to be
succesfull on LF. Good operating skills and knowledge of the propagation
are important too.
At my QTH I will never get a permission (from the authorities) to built a
tower higher than about 60 ft. Furthermore I live in a forrested area what
causes rather high losses, I need about 450W of HF to pump 1.9A into my
antenna. These are restrictions I have to live with, and with this limits I
will try to get the best signal in the air and keep experimenting to
improve the antenna. But I (and my family) do like our house and the
surrounding very much, so I do not intend to sell the house and move to
another place just to become a 'men'.
But even with my 'boy-antenna' I managed to work over 70 stations in 17
countries and up to 1700km away. Others (eg. G3XDV, G4GVC) managed to get
similar results with rather limited antennas.

73, Rik  ON7YD



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 26458 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 09:48:20 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 09:48:20 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AV92-0007HY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:41:48 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AV91-0007HT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:41:47 +0000
X-Priority: 3
Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA20592 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:41:44 +0100
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000118113957.2ecf9476@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be>
X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:39:57
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Rik Strobbe" 
Subject: LF: Slovenian station heard ?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Last night I could hear a very weak station calling IK5ZPV, The station was
only 229 here (rather high QRN) and I got the call only partionally as S53?.
It happened arround 22UT and on 136.600.

73, Rik  ON7YD



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 18104 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 10:09:46 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 10:09:46 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AVSE-0007QY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:01:38 +0000
Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AVSD-0007QT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:01:37 +0000
Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA94316 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:01:33 +0100
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000118115946.2ecfb390@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:59:46
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Rik Strobbe" 
Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic
In-reply-to: 
References: <3.0.1.16.20000117105039.0817cf64@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be><388286AC.2ACD0DEE@netscapeonline.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

At 10:15 17/01/00 -0000, G3XDV wrote:
>Yes, but first things first. I have not yet found a US station who has 
>confirmed hearing DCF39. Amateur signals are going to be some 
>70dB weaker.

You're right, DCF39 should be heard at the American side. But, assuming
that both DFC39 as CHF have an ERP in the range of 25kW, if we heard CHF so
strong then it should be no problem for them hearing DCF39. 
Again based on 25kW for DCF39 and 1W for us the ham signals should be some
44dB weaker, 70dB seems much (would mean that DCF39 runs 10000kW ERP).
Additional DCF as about 100km more east and 500km more south than EI/GM.
This can be another 5 to 10dB advance for the EI/GM stations (leaves a 35
to 40dB 'gap').
Maybe the above is a bit optimistic but sometimes it doesn't hurt to look
at it from the bright side.
And there is an old German saying : 'Probieren geht über studieren'
(translated freely : to try is more important than to study).

But anyway, I think that it is good to find a big 'audience' at the other
side of the pond, that increases our chances to find out something more
about transatlantic propagation on LF.

73, Rik  ON7YD



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 1648 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 11:05:48 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 11:05:48 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AWIU-0007p6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:55:38 +0000
Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AWIS-0007p1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:55:36 +0000
Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.53) with SMTP id 0734775 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:55:21 +0100 (MET)
Message-ID: <38856E64.9E096059@phonakcom.ch>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 23:57:24 -0800
From: "Toni Baertschi" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Phonak Communications AG
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: radiation angle
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Loop-Detect: 1
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

>>From HB9ASB, JN36pt

Regarding antennas, I also think that in general "bigger is better".
But is there much difference in take off angle (at 136kHz) between a 20m

and a 40m tower?
May be we should not look only at the antenna. How about the
counterpoise and the terrain around the station?
I'm living on a north-west slope of a hill and my short-wave signal from

my beam, 5m above the roof, and the 100W I can put out, produces often a

much better signal in the USA than other Swiss stations with 40m towers
and a KW.
Sometimes I think that this has also an influence on my LF situation,
but I'm not sure. Fact is, that on LF  I can work well to the
north-west, while I have difficulties in other directions.
May be, this is not so important for you "flatlanders", hi, but I could
imagine that the soil and the (non-existing) radials around your antenna

(some kilometers around the antenna!) has also a certain influence on
the take-off angle?

73 de Toni

PS. Actually it is very cold here and my antenna de-tunes from hour to
hour as the soil is freezing deeper and deeper. Not only the resonance
goes higher, the impedance is also changing and it is difficult to
follow this developement with the existing matching circuit.










From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 26700 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 13:18:13 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 13:18:13 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AYMr-0000FK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:08:17 +0000
Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AYMq-0000FF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:08:16 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id NAA11569 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:08:11 GMT
X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Message-ID: <2000011813032668199@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:03:26 GMT
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Peter Dodd" 
X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836
Subject: LF: Re: Big LF Antennas
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 
Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

BIG ANTENNA MEGALOMANIA
>From the heading you might suppose that I am anti-large antennas. 
This is not true. My first introduction to Amateur Radio was G3JKV on 
Top Band from RAF Shawbury, with a 140ft antenna supported at one end 
by a 100ft tower  (Its all your fault Walter!).

Later I operated on Top Band from Sierra Leone, West Africa, with an 
antenna fixed to a 140ft mast on an 1100 ft high location a mile away 
from the sea. And worked the world with 8watts input to the PA of the 
transmitter. All good fun.

I am currently experimenting with a large antenna at Amberley 
Industrial Museum for 136kHz

However, G3KEV makes the following assertion:

"From statistics available the only amateur stations active on 137 
khz in the UK capable of making a two way qso across the atlantic are
MM0ALM/G3KEV/GI3KEV/GI3PDN. The statistics are based on
1: Antennas MM0ALM - 130 Ft towers
                   G3KEV     -  100 and 80ft towers
                   GI3KEV    -  120 Ft tower ( another tower same 
height to be installed soon to accommodate better antennas for the 
transatlantic test)
                   GI3PDN    -   80 Ft tower ( upgrade soon to 120 ft)"

Another e-mail from G3KEV ran as follows:

"There is a big difference in the radiation pattern and angle of take 
off between a high vertical antenna and a very low antenna given the 
same rf power to the antenna. 1 Watt erp from a dummy load or low 
horizontal wire is hardly the same as 1 Watt erp from a vertical 
antenna at 120 ft. There is also the RX consideration especially on 
long haul signals. At LF the delivery system ie ANTENNA is the most 
important factor. Even with large towers, and high elaborate 
antennas, which are still physically small relative to 137 khz and a 
limit of 1W erp, one has to realise the limitations,...." 

which gives the impression Mal might be a little hazy as to what 
e.r.p. actually means. 

So lets take a look at a couple of antennas and see what they are 
capable of. They are modelled using EZNEC, which gives a good 
correlation with observed performance. First of all the monster 
antenna a G3KEV. His description of it is as follows:

"I now have 3  inv L's in parallel, each one is 110 ft vertical and 
250 ft top section. These all feed to a common point and connected to 
my loading inductor....."

I modelled this antenna using just one inverted L (putting the three 
inverted Ls in parallel gave a 1.5 dB improvement) A single inverted 
L antenna has a gain of -15dBi on good ground and a radiation 
resistance of 0.3ohms. The elevation angle of maximum radiation is 15 
degrees and an omni-directional azimuth pattern (ignoring the effect 
of the sea). An antenna with this gain gives 1w erp with a 
transmitter power of 96W (say 100W). I am not sure what power Mal is 
using but it was quoted in an early e-mail.

Now lets have a look at my antenna, contemptuously referred to by Mal 
in an e-mail as "a piece of wet string". It has a gain of -25dB with 
an elevation angle of maximum radiation of 15 degrees. With my 300W 
transmitter it gives an erp of around 300mW. I can raise my erp to 1W 
by using a 1KW output amplifier. 

The polar diagram of an electrically short antenna fed against ground 
(if you are using a loading coil then your antenna is electrically 
short) is the same whatever shape you make it (sort of half 
doughnut), with a deep vertical null. An inverted L antenna that is 
approaching a quarter wavelength long, such as OH1TN and  MM0ALM is 
different and radiates much of its energy skywards.

>From this it is obvious that you too can radiate a 1w erp without 
having to buy a farm, provided that you have enough room to put up an 
80m dipole. G3KAU has developed a 1.2KW amplifier on a G0MRF board 
and G3YXM and G3XTZ also use similar power amplifiers.

As regards receive G3KEV asserts:
"On RX a small antenna does not have the capture area to produce a 
good strong signal...".

Capture area depends as much on antenna Q as on size. In fact if the 
antenna is too large then you finish up having to switch in 
attenuation to maintain the receiver system gain distribution and 
avoid non-linearity. The AMRAD group in the USA found this out when 
they used some ex-navy big antennas at 300ft high. A large antenna 
should have the advantage having less electrical QRM although G4GVC 
seems to have very good 'ears' from a modest site in suburbia. 

So, try to disregard this big antenna hype and smaller station 
discouragement; concentrate on general experimenting and improving 
your station. Above all, have fun - after all its only a hobby.

Finally, some countries have not yet been granted permission to use 
the 136kHz band. You can be sure that organisations, such as the FCC, 
will be monitoring our behaviour and activity before going ahead with 
this allocation.
If you have a large antenna farm then by all means use it, but watch 
the erp - it is easily measured by other stations.



-- 
Regards, Peter, G3LDO (VQ4HX, VQ3HX, VQ1HX, 9L1HX, PA9APV, ZK1XE)









From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 2085 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 15:04:10 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 15:04:10 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Aa2K-0000xX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:55:12 +0000
Received: from mta00.talk21.com ([62.172.192.40] helo=t21mta00-app.talk21.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Aa2G-0000xS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:55:08 +0000
Received: from dave ([213.1.56.57]) by t21mta00-app.talk21.com         (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP         id <20000118145312.PBSX26117.t21mta00-app.talk21.com@dave>         for ;         Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:53:12 +0000
Message-ID: <000501bf61c3$f89b2f60$393801d5@dave>
From: "Dave Sergeant" 
To: "rsgb_lf_group" 
Subject: LF: Comment - Transatlantic
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:48:22 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

>From Dave G3YMC

A few comments on recent mails.

Although I agree that by and large the stations with high good antennas
stand the best chance for transmitting across the atlantic, small antennas
do offer some advantages for reception.  In particular, small antennas pick
up far lower local QRN levels, which is particularly important on lf.

It is worth noting that G3KEV apparantly does not hear my signals with the
large antennas he uses - several far less well equiped stations at
comparable distance copy me consistently.

Of course for the transatlantic work low angle radiation is a must - a high
vertical coupled with an excellent ground system does seem ideal for this.
But that is not to preclude the better equipped stations with Marconis and
similar, and there are several UK stations not on Mal's list who must have a
sporting chance.

As G3XDV says, the first thing to do is to establish if DCF39 can be copied
in the USA - I suspect if it is not received there as strongly as we hear
CFH the chances are slim.

73s Dave G3YMC
dsergeant@iee.org
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 10044 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 16:01:11 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 16:01:11 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Aaug-0001Jy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:51:22 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Aauc-0001Js-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:51:19 +0000
Received: from [195.44.222.140] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AauV-0005qv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:51:12 +0000
Message-ID: <3884B637.B589F9CE@netscapeonline.co.uk>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:51:35 -0800
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Men and boys
References: <3.0.1.16.20000118113515.2d2fe45e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 



Rik Strobbe wrote:

> There is so much more needed to built a BIG vertical than just the will to
> do it. A stable big vertical tower costs a lot of money (at least they're
> not for free in Belgium), the authorities need a to give you permission to
> built it and also your family and neighbourgs must agree (unless you play
> 'I am alone on the world' and don't care about others).
> So a lot of us (I even dare to say most of us) will have to live as 'boys'
> on LF and probably never will become 'men'. But this does not mean that we
> have no chances to work nice 'DX'. First of all there is the 1 Watt ERP
> level that limits the possibilities of the 'men' (unless they don't care
> about the law) and further there is more needed than a BIG antenna to be
> succesfull on LF. Good operating skills and knowledge of the propagation
> are important too.

A good point Rik. Could you please arrange some MORSE lessons on air. There
seems to be a lot of RUSTY operators about on LF and also arrange some DX at
over 3000 K/metres to come on the air so that we can study propogation. At
present the distances amongst us are too close and we have all worked each
other several times over. Anything up to around 2000 K/metres has become the
the normal (old hat) and certainly not DX.


>
> At my QTH I will never get a permission (from the authorities) to built a
> tower higher than about 60 ft. Furthermore I live in a forrested area what
> causes rather high losses, I need about 450W of HF to pump 1.9A into my
> antenna. These are restrictions I have to live with, and with this limits I
> will try to get the best signal in the air and keep experimenting to
> improve the antenna. But I (and my family) do like our house and the
> surrounding very much, so I do not intend to sell the house and move to
> another place just to become a 'men'.
> But even with my 'boy-antenna' I managed to work over 70 stations in 17
> countries and up to 1700km away. Others (eg. G3XDV, G4GVC) managed to get
> similar results with rather limited antennas.
>
> 73, Rik  ON7YD





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 28343 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 16:01:49 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 16:01:49 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Aaur-0001KH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:51:33 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Aauq-0001KA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:51:32 +0000
Received: from [195.44.222.140] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Aaui-0005rP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:51:29 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3884C2CC.BA56C8B9@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:45:16 -0800
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "rsgb" 
Subject: LF: SIGNAL
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

If you have ever wondered why you only get a signal report of say 429
when you are giving 579 it is because the station is transmitting on a
vertical and receiving on a loop. It is not a reciprocal signal exchange
and therefore makes a nonsense of signal strength reports under these
circumstances.
In fact the rx loop might not be orientated in the direction of the
transmitted signal.
Another consideration is a person that has asymmetrical ears.!!! There
could be 2 S points difference in your report depending whether he is
listening to the left or right. All these anomalies should be declared
in a QSO.
73 de Mal/G3KEV


.





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 20031 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 16:04:04 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 16:04:04 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Aaum-0001K5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:51:28 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Aauk-0001K0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:51:26 +0000
Received: from [195.44.222.140] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Aauf-0005qz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:51:22 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3884BB12.1F0C31B9@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:12:19 -0800
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re.L.F.Transatlantic
References: <000201bf6137$a3cbc800$37c2883e@lvm>
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit




 

LAWRENCE MAYHEAD wrote:

 OK Mal,
but from the Rx point of view a strong signal is not important so long
as it is enough to overcome reciever noise surely?

Lawerence. I am not offended. I
like a good discussion as long as it is based on a  sound fundation
but there is a lot of nonsense discussed on this medium. You do not always
get enough signal from small loops and low horizontal wires. A german station
published some figures the other day and where his vertical gave a signal
strength of some 30uv the loop was 0.25 uv and this was a loud commercial
station.  The majority of amateur stations transmitting on 137 khz
would not have been heard by him on his loop. I have tried this on 160
metres using a 40 metre vertical quad loop resonated for 160m and compared
it to my inv L up at 100 ft.

On short/medium haul up to say
2000 miles the loop was good but beyond that for the far east, Malaysia/Australia/Japan
etc I could not even hear the signals, whereas the signals on the inv L
were perfectly readable. The loop was pointing in the correct direction.

On LF for a few hundred miles a
loop will probably give some results but when looking at say 3000 k/metres
and beyond it is doubtful and for TX useless.

When GW4ALG uses his loop I can
barely hear him. When he switches to 60ft vertical 589. When G6RO was using
a loop he was at best 559 with qsb and now he has changed to a vertical
he is 599. It speaks for itself.

73 de Mal/G3KEV

It seems to me that what is important
is sig/noise ratio and this depends not so much on the capture area 
but more on the elevation angle,directivity etc. I also have experimented
over the years  and am constantly amazed at what there is to be discovered,not
the least on LF where many things are different especially the effects
of ground.Anyway my remarks were not meant to be critical,they were intended
to be constructive and I hope you have not taken offence.73s Laurie.





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 21443 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 17:04:42 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 17:04:42 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AbuI-0001s1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:55:02 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AbuG-0001ru-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:55:01 +0000
Received: from as23-s15-143-114.cwci.net ([195.44.143.114] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AbuB-000108-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:54:55 +0000
Message-ID: <38850B2B.D0FF22DB@netscapeonline.co.uk>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:54:03 -0800
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Big LF Antennas
References: <2000011813032668199@zetnet.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 



Peter Dodd wrote:

> BIG ANTENNA MEGALOMANIA
> >From the heading you might suppose that I am anti-large antennas.
> This is not true. My first introduction to Amateur Radio was G3JKV on
> Top Band from RAF Shawbury, with a 140ft antenna supported at one end
> by a 100ft tower  (Its all your fault Walter!).
>
> Later I operated on Top Band from Sierra Leone, West Africa, with an
> antenna fixed to a 140ft mast on an 1100 ft high location a mile away
> from the sea. And worked the world with 8watts input to the PA of the
> transmitter. All good fun.
>
> I am currently experimenting with a large antenna at Amberley
> Industrial Museum for 136kHz
>
> However, G3KEV makes the following assertion:
>
> "From statistics available the only amateur stations active on 137
> khz in the UK capable of making a two way qso across the atlantic are
> MM0ALM/G3KEV/GI3KEV/GI3PDN. The statistics are based on
> 1: Antennas MM0ALM - 130 Ft towers
>                    G3KEV     -  100 and 80ft towers
>                    GI3KEV    -  120 Ft tower ( another tower same
> height to be installed soon to accommodate better antennas for the
> transatlantic test)
>                    GI3PDN    -   80 Ft tower ( upgrade soon to 120 ft)"
>
> Another e-mail from G3KEV ran as follows:
>
> "There is a big difference in the radiation pattern and angle of take
> off between a high vertical antenna and a very low antenna given the
> same rf power to the antenna. 1 Watt erp from a dummy load or low
> horizontal wire is hardly the same as 1 Watt erp from a vertical
> antenna at 120 ft. There is also the RX consideration especially on
> long haul signals. At LF the delivery system ie ANTENNA is the most
> important factor. Even with large towers, and high elaborate
> antennas, which are still physically small relative to 137 khz and a
> limit of 1W erp, one has to realise the limitations,...."
>
> which gives the impression Mal might be a little hazy as to what
> e.r.p. actually means.

What about the time you loaded your tx into the farmers fence and expected
great results only to find that your ERP fizzled out a few metres away. Try
using the fence as a long radial and get some wire into the sky for an
antenna. Your calculations that you quote didnt seem to work for that
experiment.
My 3 inverted L antennas are not strung together but spread out around the
mast so go back to the drawing board. When I progressed from 1 to 3 inv L
antennas I noticed signals up around 1S point (6 db both on tx and rx, also
the total base loading inductance dropped to 0.9 mh. Your 1.5 db
calculation does not correspond with practical observations at this qth.
Theory only points one in a certain direction but in reality the practical
application often conflicts because of environmental considerations, ie
ground conductivity, number of radials and type etc.
Try a substitute installation similar to mine at your qth and that would be
the IMPROVEMENT for you that you suggest one ought to be doing,  let us all
have the results.
I am impressed with all the callsigns that you listed from the past but you
have some catching up to do.
de MAL/G3KEV/YI2DX/9V1OY/9M2CC/VS9MQ/VR3MH/5B4DX/ZC4DX/EI2AE/5A3MH
VS6HI---- BV/VS6HI- JA/VS6HI- KH6/G3KEV - VE7/G3KEV - W/G3KEV.



>
>
> So lets take a look at a couple of antennas and see what they are
> capable of. They are modelled using EZNEC, which gives a good
> correlation with observed performance. First of all the monster
> antenna a G3KEV. His description of it is as follows:
>
> "I now have 3  inv L's in parallel, each one is 110 ft vertical and
> 250 ft top section. These all feed to a common point and connected to
> my loading inductor....."
>
> I modelled this antenna using just one inverted L (putting the three
> inverted Ls in parallel gave a 1.5 dB improvement) A single inverted
> L antenna has a gain of -15dBi on good ground and a radiation
> resistance of 0.3ohms. The elevation angle of maximum radiation is 15
> degrees and an omni-directional azimuth pattern (ignoring the effect
> of the sea). An antenna with this gain gives 1w erp with a
> transmitter power of 96W (say 100W). I am not sure what power Mal is
> using but it was quoted in an early e-mail.
>
> Now lets have a look at my antenna, contemptuously referred to by Mal
> in an e-mail as "a piece of wet string". It has a gain of -25dB with
> an elevation angle of maximum radiation of 15 degrees. With my 300W
> transmitter it gives an erp of around 300mW. I can raise my erp to 1W
> by using a 1KW output amplifier.
>
> The polar diagram of an electrically short antenna fed against ground
> (if you are using a loading coil then your antenna is electrically
> short) is the same whatever shape you make it (sort of half
> doughnut), with a deep vertical null. An inverted L antenna that is
> approaching a quarter wavelength long, such as OH1TN and  MM0ALM is
> different and radiates much of its energy skywards.
>
> >From this it is obvious that you too can radiate a 1w erp without
> having to buy a farm, provided that you have enough room to put up an
> 80m dipole. G3KAU has developed a 1.2KW amplifier on a G0MRF board
> and G3YXM and G3XTZ also use similar power amplifiers.
>
> As regards receive G3KEV asserts:
> "On RX a small antenna does not have the capture area to produce a
> good strong signal...".
>
> Capture area depends as much on antenna Q as on size. In fact if the
> antenna is too large then you finish up having to switch in
> attenuation to maintain the receiver system gain distribution and
> avoid non-linearity. The AMRAD group in the USA found this out when
> they used some ex-navy big antennas at 300ft high. A large antenna
> should have the advantage having less electrical QRM although G4GVC
> seems to have very good 'ears' from a modest site in suburbia.
>
> So, try to disregard this big antenna hype and smaller station
> discouragement; concentrate on general experimenting and improving
> your station. Above all, have fun - after all its only a hobby.
>
> Finally, some countries have not yet been granted permission to use
> the 136kHz band. You can be sure that organisations, such as the FCC,
> will be monitoring our behaviour and activity before going ahead with
> this allocation.
> If you have a large antenna farm then by all means use it, but watch
> the erp - it is easily measured by other stations.
>
> --
> Regards, Peter, G3LDO (VQ4HX, VQ3HX, VQ1HX, 9L1HX, PA9APV, ZK1XE)
>
> 




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 22908 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 17:08:24 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 17:08:24 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AbuG-0001rv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:55:00 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AbuD-0001rp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:54:57 +0000
Received: from as23-s15-143-114.cwci.net ([195.44.143.114] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Abu9-0000zy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:54:53 +0000
Message-ID: <38850177.620EFD17@netscapeonline.co.uk>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:12:39 -0800
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Comment - Transatlantic
References: <000501bf61c3$f89b2f60$393801d5@dave>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 



Dave Sergeant wrote:

> >From Dave G3YMC
>
> A few comments on recent mails.
>
> Although I agree that by and large the stations with high good antennas
> stand the best chance for transmitting across the atlantic, small antennas
> do offer some advantages for reception.  In particular, small antennas pick
> up far lower local QRN levels, which is particularly important on lf.
>
> It is worth noting that G3KEV apparantly does not hear my signals with the
> large antennas he uses - several far less well equiped stations at
> comparable distance copy me consistently.

 I consistantly work I5MXX and IK5ZPV, exchange 579 each way. To the north OH1TN
and OH3LYG, we exchage 5 7/8 9 each way.
All others around the UK and EU I consider locals. You seem to have the problem.
Let us all know what reports you get from the same stations. I expect you do not
even hear them !!!!

>
>
> Of course for the transatlantic work low angle radiation is a must - a high
> vertical coupled with an excellent ground system does seem ideal for this.
> But that is not to preclude the better equipped stations with Marconis and
> similar, and there are several UK stations not on Mal's list who must have a
> sporting chance.
>
> As G3XDV says, the first thing to do is to establish if DCF39 can be copied
> in the USA - I suspect if it is not received there as strongly as we hear
> CFH the chances are slim.
>
> 73s Dave G3YMC
> dsergeant@iee.org
> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 24576 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 17:13:26 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 17:13:26 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ac32-0001vE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:04:04 +0000
Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ac2w-0001v6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:03:58 +0000
Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12Ac0N-0002N6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:01:19 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <26757.200001181708@gemini>
From: "James Moritz" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: University of Hertfordshire
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:08:34 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: LF: Grounds/ERP
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11)
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Dear LF Group,
	Was very interested to read G3LDO's piece about antenna 
comparisons - it seems that the most important factor for DX 
operation on 136kHz may ultimately be the ground, rather than the 
antenna. People seem to be of the opinion that the M0BMU signal 
is quite good considering my small antenna - the ground here is 
heavy clay, which stays very wet just below the surface even in 
summer, which might be a factor in my favour. As G3XDV pointed 
out some time ago, it is also within a couple of hundred metres of 
the edge of the Brookmans Park MF broadcast site, and may 
benefit from their ground system.

Can anybody enlighten me as to the exact defenition of ERP  - 
calculation of the radiated power from antenna current and 
geometry is one thing, but is it the same as ERP in the amateur LF 
allocation licence conditions?

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 17420 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 17:32:51 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 17:32:51 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AcNr-00028L-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:25:35 +0000
Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AcNn-000285-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:25:31 +0000
Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12AcNd-0006Ld-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:25:21 +0000
Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:18:06 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
From: "Mike Dennison" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:18:03 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: LF: IK5ZPV
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11)
X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq
Message-ID: 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Monday, 17th.
For an hour in the evening, my noise level on 136kHz went right 
down to zero on my s-meter. It is usually at S2-3 on the quietest 
days and up to 9 on the noisiest, typically 5 in the evenings (to 
compare, the Greek RTTY reads S9 and DCF 9+40). Perhaps one 
of my neighbours blew a fuse!
During that hour, I heard IK5ZPV calling CQ at 429.  I called him 
and he replied with a QRZ but nothing after that. He would not have 
been noticed at all when the QRM was normal. It just shows what we 
could all hear if the man-made noise was not there.

Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT)
http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 18067 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 17:34:25 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 17:34:25 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AcNq-00028J-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:25:34 +0000
Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AcNm-000282-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:25:30 +0000
Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12AcNc-0006Lb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:25:21 +0000
Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:08:00 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
From: "Mike Dennison" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:07:57 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: LF: Weekend Report 14-16 Jan
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11)
X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq
Message-ID: 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Friday 14 January 
On 73kHz again. Worked M0BMU who had improved his antenna (gave 
599, got 589), and G0MRF (559/459) at 45km for my fifth two-way 
QSO on the band. Transmitted QRSs (4s dots) afterwards. 
Heard G3XTZ (569) who heard me briefly amongst his local QRM but 
not for long enough to have a contact. He is 46km away and is the 12th 
station I have heard on 73kHz.

Saturday 15 January 
Returned to 136kHz band. Bad local noise most of the day between S5 
and S9. 
Heard the usual 599ers: G3OLB, G4GVC, G3YXM, G3AQC, 
MM0ALM, G3KEV. 
Also heard: DJ9IE (559); ON6ND (579); ON4ZK (559); G6RO (569). 
Worked GW4ALG (5 7/8 9 / 589). 

Sunday 16 January 
Got up at 0640 but the only activity for an hour was GW4ALG. 
Excellent signal from CFH (Canada) on 137.0kHz until quite late in the 
morning: 0645-0800 (S9), 0830 (8/9), 0840 (8), 0845 (7), 0855 (6), 
0910 (5), 0925-1020 (4), 1030 inaudible in my S5 local noise. 
Saw strong QRSs signals from G3YXM and G3XTZ during their 
transatlantic tests. 
Heard 599ers: GW4ALG (using his temporary 20m vertical), G3YXM, 
G3KEV. 
Also heard: G3YMC (329); DJ9IE (549); GI3PDN (549); G8PX (559) 
and LX1PD (579 with a big pile up of callers but only one worked). 

Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT)
http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 2635 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 18:09:35 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 18:09:35 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AcxV-0002Ng-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:02:25 +0000
Received: from as-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.144] helo=spamgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AcxR-0002Nb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:02:22 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id NAA23209 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:02:02 -0500 (EST)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:00:54 -0500
From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Big LF Antennas
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Message-ID: <200001181301_MC2-953A-B202@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Disposition: inline
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 


>I am impressed with all the callsigns that you listed from the past but
you
>have some catching up to do.

What is the name of that game, may I join in?         ;-)

Vy 73

Geri, DK8KW (W1KW, ex: AA5SV, C31JE, F0BEG, G5BXG, JY8KW, OK8AHC, OM9AKW,
ON8KW, OR8KW, PA9APG, SO3KW, S1AH, TK0BEG, VK6BKW, WD3B, Y29DH, 9H3RF,
DK8KW/BY1BJ, DK8KW/EA, DK8KW/EA8, EI/DK8KW, EJ/DK8KW, GM/DK8KW, DK8KW/HA5,
DK8KW/HB, DK8KW/HB0, IK/DK8KW, IK/DK8KW/1P0P, LA/DK8KW,  DK8KW/LX,
LZ1R/DK8KW, DK8KW/OE, OZ/DK8KW, DK8KW/SU, DK8KW/SV2, TK/DK8KW, TR/DK8KW, 
DK8KW/VE6, 3A/DK8KW, WD3B/5N3 ... did I forget some? I don't know ...)


BTW: Thanks to all of you who have send a birthday-mail to my father Butz,
DL6PE. He was, what we call in German "geruehrt" (and I dont know the
English expression for it ...)


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 22640 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 19:00:27 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 19:00:27 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AdkJ-0002fs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:52:51 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AdkG-0002fg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:52:48 +0000
Received: from [195.44.214.9] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AdkA-0007Fs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:52:42 +0000
Message-ID: <38852697.2012A382@netscapeonline.co.uk>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:51:03 -0800
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Big LF Antennas
References: <2000011813032668199@zetnet.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 



Peter Dodd wrote:

> BIG ANTENNA MEGALOMANIA
> >From the heading you might suppose that I am anti-large antennas.
> This is not true. My first introduction to Amateur Radio was G3JKV on
> Top Band from RAF Shawbury, with a 140ft antenna supported at one end
> by a 100ft tower  (Its all your fault Walter!).
>
> Later I operated on Top Band from Sierra Leone, West Africa, with an
> antenna fixed to a 140ft mast on an 1100 ft high location a mile away
> from the sea. And worked the world with 8watts input to the PA of the
> transmitter. All good fun.
>
> I am currently experimenting with a large antenna at Amberley
> Industrial Museum for 136kHz
>
> However, G3KEV makes the following assertion:
>
> "From statistics available the only amateur stations active on 137
> khz in the UK capable of making a two way qso across the atlantic are
> MM0ALM/G3KEV/GI3KEV/GI3PDN. The statistics are based on
> 1: Antennas MM0ALM - 130 Ft towers
>                    G3KEV     -  100 and 80ft towers
>                    GI3KEV    -  120 Ft tower ( another tower same
> height to be installed soon to accommodate better antennas for the
> transatlantic test)
>                    GI3PDN    -   80 Ft tower ( upgrade soon to 120 ft)"
>
> Another e-mail from G3KEV ran as follows:
>
> "There is a big difference in the radiation pattern and angle of take
> off between a high vertical antenna and a very low antenna given the
> same rf power to the antenna. 1 Watt erp from a dummy load or low
> horizontal wire is hardly the same as 1 Watt erp from a vertical
> antenna at 120 ft. There is also the RX consideration especially on
> long haul signals. At LF the delivery system ie ANTENNA is the most
> important factor. Even with large towers, and high elaborate
> antennas, which are still physically small relative to 137 khz and a
> limit of 1W erp, one has to realise the limitations,...."
>
> which gives the impression Mal might be a little hazy as to what
> e.r.p. actually means.
>
> So lets take a look at a couple of antennas and see what they are
> capable of. They are modelled using EZNEC, which gives a good
> correlation with observed performance. First of all the monster
> antenna a G3KEV. His description of it is as follows:
>
> "I now have 3  inv L's in parallel, each one is 110 ft vertical and
> 250 ft top section. These all feed to a common point and connected to
> my loading inductor....."
>
> I modelled this antenna using just one inverted L (putting the three
> inverted Ls in parallel gave a 1.5 dB improvement) A single inverted
> L antenna has a gain of -15dBi on good ground and a radiation
> resistance of 0.3ohms. The elevation angle of maximum radiation is 15
> degrees and an omni-directional azimuth pattern (ignoring the effect
> of the sea). An antenna with this gain gives 1w erp with a
> transmitter power of 96W (say 100W). I am not sure what power Mal is
> using but it was quoted in an early e-mail.
>
> Now lets have a look at my antenna, contemptuously referred to by Mal
> in an e-mail as "a piece of wet string". It has a gain of -25dB with
> an elevation angle of maximum radiation of 15 degrees. With my 300W
> transmitter it gives an erp of around 300mW. I can raise my erp to 1W
> by using a 1KW output amplifier.
>
> The polar diagram of an electrically short antenna fed against ground
> (if you are using a loading coil then your antenna is electrically
> short) is the same whatever shape you make it (sort of half
> doughnut), with a deep vertical null. An inverted L antenna that is
> approaching a quarter wavelength long, such as OH1TN and  MM0ALM is
> different and radiates much of its energy skywards.
>
> >From this it is obvious that you too can radiate a 1w erp without
> having to buy a farm, provided that you have enough room to put up an
> 80m dipole. G3KAU has developed a 1.2KW amplifier on a G0MRF board
> and G3YXM and G3XTZ also use similar power amplifiers.
>
> As regards receive G3KEV asserts:
> "On RX a small antenna does not have the capture area to produce a
> good strong signal...".
>
> Capture area depends as much on antenna Q as on size. In fact if the
> antenna is too large then you finish up having to switch in
> attenuation to maintain the receiver system gain distribution and
> avoid non-linearity. The AMRAD group in the USA found this out when
> they used some ex-navy big antennas at 300ft high. A large antenna
> should have the advantage having less electrical QRM although G4GVC
> seems to have very good 'ears' from a modest site in suburbia.
>
> So, try to disregard this big antenna hype and smaller station
> discouragement; concentrate on general experimenting and improving
> your station. Above all, have fun - after all its only a hobby.
>
> Finally, some countries have not yet been granted permission to use
> the 136kHz band. You can be sure that organisations, such as the FCC,
> will be monitoring our behaviour and activity before going ahead with
> this allocation.
> If you have a large antenna farm then by all means use it, but watch
> the erp

Watch the ERP it is easy to measure.
What he is really saying is, if he gets his calculator out and your are
British and he thinks that you might be a fraction over 1W erp he would
drop you in the Proverbial. This means for the Continental audience that he
would report you to the Establishment.- Pathetic

> - it is easily measured by other stations.
>
> --
> Regards, Peter, G3LDO (VQ4HX, VQ3HX, VQ1HX, 9L1HX, PA9APV, ZK1XE)
>
> 




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 24694 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 20:11:53 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 20:11:53 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AeoT-00035Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:01:13 +0000
Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AeoS-00035U-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:01:12 +0000
Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.53) with SMTP id 0797339 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:00:45 +0100 (MET)
Message-ID: <3884C66F.D7B03F93@phonakcom.ch>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:00:47 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Toni_B=E4rtschi?= 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Phonak Communications AG
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [de] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: de,en-US,en-GB,fr-FR
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: callsign game
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Loop-Detect: 1
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

>>From HB9ASB, JN36pt

I'm really impressed by all the calls and I would like to join this
funny game. But I have only one call and I don't know from where you got
all these nice callsigns.
 
May be it's against "les regles du jeux" but to declare openly and
visible for everybody that I'm listening not only with the left or the
right ear but with 2 ears I will now change my call into
HB 2 ASB. 

73 de Toni


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 28638 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 20:30:03 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 20:30:03 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Af7H-0003Kn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:20:39 +0000
Received: from mb09.swip.net ([193.12.122.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Af7F-0003Ki-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:20:38 +0000
Received: from win95 (d212-151-82-174.swipnet.se [212.151.82.174])          by mb09.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP          id VAA03124 for ;          Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:19:52 +0100 (MET)
Message-ID: <002401bf61f1$ddca52a0$ae5297d4@win95.swipnet.se>
From: "Christer Andersson" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: SV: callsign game
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:23:00 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

de

sm6pxj
sm6pxj/p
sm6pxj/m

Once I even saw the Swedish King at a distance less than 50 meters...
A merit that falls in the same cathegory.





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 8618 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 20:56:09 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 20:56:09 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AfWg-0003S3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:46:54 +0000
Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AfWf-0003Ry-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:46:54 +0000
Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:46:25 +0100
Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de (PC10830.dial.uni-kiel.de [134.245.108.30]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA17215          for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:47:40 +0100 (MET)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3884D107.2C5C5B0@nephro.uni-kiel.de>
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:45:59 +0100
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
From: "Peter W. Schnoor" 
Organization: University of Kiel, Clinic of Nephrology
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586)
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: callsign game
References: <3884C66F.D7B03F93@phonakcom.ch>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Dear Friends,

"Honny soit qui mal y pense!"

54°16´N / 10°04´E, JO54ag
Greetings from Kiel,
Peter, DF3LP


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 15015 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 21:23:47 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 21:23:47 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AfxI-0003au-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:14:24 +0000
Received: from mail1.isys.net ([193.96.224.45]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AfxG-0003ap-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:14:23 +0000
Received: from k [195.64.97.115]  by mail1.isys.net with esmtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 12Ag4M-0002s2-00; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:21:42 +0100
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
From: "Klaus von der Heide" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:15:01 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic
In-reply-to: <3883D76C.E608FA8@netscapeonline.co.uk>
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b)
Message-ID: 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 



A Comment on Antennas for Transatlantic QSO
===========================================

2 kilometers is a good wavelength. Then you have the 
chance somewhere to find some Hams living about a 
quarter of the wavelength apart from each other. 
If they all synchronize their LF-transmissions and 
adjust the phases such that all the power goes west 
nothing will be lost in other directions and all will 
be summed up over the atlantic. That's the simple 
principle of phased arrays often used by military 
RADAR. You will observe the same antenna gain when 
receiving. Depending on the location you can get 
11 dB antenna gain with 8 stations, but, in contrast 
to a Yagi, the power is 8-fold, so the over-all-gain 
may be 20 db at the transmitting end. This effort 
of course is only justified, when all the individual 
antennas are nearly equal and very good.

May be, it's out of law, to transmit in phase from 
so many places using the same call sign. 

My little LF-tranceiver entirely is synchronized to 
DCF-77 and can be shifted in phase by the PC. Some 
of this type used in a phased array would not need any 
communication between each other while transmission. 
Only the phases must be calculated once using the 
exact coordinates of each antenna location, and the 
time interval of the transmission and the information 
to be transmitted should be the same, of course. 
Reception would need to bring the signals together. 
If at all places a local oscillator synchronized 
to an atomic clock like DCF-77 or MSF is used to 
mix the LF-band down to AF, then a simple FM link 
on 2m or 70cm would do this job. Then the antenna 
could virtually be turned around in any direction 
after reception.

Unfortunately, I don't have the time to build an 
amplifier and a LF-Antenna.

73 de Klaus, DJ5HG



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 28293 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 21:52:46 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 21:52:46 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AgOU-0003rG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:42:30 +0000
Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AgOR-0003rB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:42:28 +0000
Received: from steve (beefcake.zeta.org.au [203.26.10.12]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA25354 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:42:14 +1100
Message-ID: <003101bf61fd$3b1f7240$674207ca@steve>
From: "Steve Olney" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
References: <3884C2CC.BA56C8B9@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Subject: LF: Re: SIGNAL
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:44:31 +1100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

G'day All,

I think Kev has a good point here:-

>
> Another consideration is a person that has asymmetrical ears.!!! There
> could be 2 S points difference in your report depending whether he is
> listening to the left or right. All these anomalies should be declared
> in a QSO.
>

We should extend the RST to include perhaps L for left ear, R for right ear,
HAL for hearing aid left ear, HAR for hearing aid right ear.  (Perhaps even
HAR HAR for a hearing aid in the right ear and listening to comedy sketch
with the left ear).

I also think we should modify the QRSS reporting system in a similar
fashion.  I suggest ARE for astigmatism right eye and ALE for astigmatism
left eye. (and ALE^2 if you have astigmatism in the left eye and are under
the influence).

For contesting there should an inverse multiplier.   If you have 20/20
vision then you obviously have an unfair advantage over others and so you
should be penalised.   There should be special modifiers for different
occupations of the receiving party.   For example, if you were a pirate by
trade, you should receive probably the largest help.   After all, conducting
a QSO with a patch over one eye, a parrot squawking in one ear and hopping
on one leg with a funny hat on your head must be worth some compensation!!!
Perhaps designated as LJS for Long John Silver.

I await your serious consideration of these suggestions.

Regards Steve Olney

VK2ZTO/AXSO/ALE^2



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 11926 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 22:10:03 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 22:10:03 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Agil-0003z9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:03:27 +0000
Received: from bbaer.muenster.de ([195.202.32.20] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Agij-0003z4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:03:26 +0000
Received: from [192.168.30.134] ([192.168.30.134]) by bbaer.muenster.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA07015 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:58:14 +0100
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:58:14 +0100
Message-ID: <200001182158.WAA07015@bbaer.muenster.de>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
From: welp@muenster.de
Subject: Re: LF: Sound card receiver
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
In-reply-to: <003601bf6177$f3781940$4f2b97d4@win95.swipnet.se>
X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.10.06.22
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

On Tue, 18 Jan 2000, "Christer Andersson"  wrote:
>Is there a way to change the pitch of the incoming signal (in 
realtime), do some filtering etc?

DSP Blaster (by Brian Beezley, K6STI) did so. Unfortunately he stopped 
developement and distribution due to software piracy.

If you want to try out, you'll find many programs on my list @
 http://www.muenster.de/~welp/sb.htm

HTH, 73, Oliver


-- 
[Oliver Welp - welp@muenster.de
 welp@uni-muenster.de
 http://www.muenster.de/~welp/
 Tel./Fax: +49-2533-7312]



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 25501 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 22:48:52 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 22:48:52 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AhGX-0004GD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:38:21 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AhGW-0004G8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:38:21 +0000
Received: from [195.44.220.218] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AhGO-0006up-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:38:13 +0000
Message-ID: <38855B49.94729B03@netscapeonline.co.uk>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:35:54 -0800
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: callsign game
References: <3884C66F.D7B03F93@phonakcom.ch>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 



Toni Bärtschi wrote:

> >From HB9ASB, JN36pt
>
> I'm really impressed by all the calls and I would like to join this
> funny game. But I have only one call and I don't know from where you got
> all these nice callsigns.
> You get a good selection of callsigns when you work abroad as  I did in
> different countries for 25 years. I operated from all of these places
> using 1.8 mhz - 432 mhz  including satellite communications. Mostly CW and
> SSB but other modes at times. Anyone that has been active over the past 40
> years probably worked me.Check your log,  if you need any cards for dxcc
> let me know.
> May be it's against "les regles du jeux" but to declare openly and
> visible for everybody that I'm listening not only with the left or the
> right ear but with 2 ears I will now change my call into
> HB 2 ASB.
>
> 73 de Toni




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 23859 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2000 23:48:25 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2000 23:48:25 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AiF1-0004aG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 23:40:51 +0000
Received: from mb07.swip.net ([193.12.122.211]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AiF0-0004aB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 23:40:50 +0000
Received: from oemcomputer (d212-151-37-209.swipnet.se [212.151.37.209])          by mb07.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP          id AAA16478 for ;          Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:38:34 +0100 (MET)
Message-ID: <009701bf620d$ab4b5100$6f2697d4@oemcomputer>
From: "Johan Bodin" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: SV: Re: SIGNAL
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:42:22 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

I agree with Steve. Besides, I suffer from astigmatism myself.

Yes, there is a big difference between 1W ERP from a small
garden antenna and 1W ERP from a 1000ft tower ;-)  It's like
comparing the performance of canoe a with a 1hp outboard
engine with the performance of a big cargo ship a with a 1 hp
outboard engine... ;-)

73

SM6LKM
SM6LKM/P
SM6LKM/M
SM6LKM/MM
SM6LKM/AM (hot air ballon)
OZ/SM6LKM
LA/...
etc. etc.

P.S.

What has happened to this mail reflector?




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 1012 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 00:06:53 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 00:06:53 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AiWl-0004kZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 23:59:11 +0000
Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AiWj-0004kS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 23:59:10 +0000
Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-120-171.bellatlantic.net [151.200.120.171]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA04050; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:58:58 -0500 (EST)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3884FD66.6076D84A@bellatlantic.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:55:19 -0500
From: "Andre' Kesteloot" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47  (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Grounds/ERP
References: <26757.200001181708@gemini>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

hello LF Friends (and others too),
Those of us who were in October 1999 at Old Windsor during the
HF/IOTA/LF Conference, will recall that we strung a fairly long
antenna above two huge cedar trees. Yet our ground was simply a piece
of wire running from the transmitter site to some lightning-rod
downlead, certainly not an elaborate ground system...
And we immediately started long distance QSOs'  :-)
73
Andre' N4ICK
*************************
James Moritz wrote:

> Dear LF Group,
>         Was very interested to read G3LDO's piece about antenna
> comparisons - it seems that the most important factor for DX
> operation on 136kHz may ultimately be the ground, rather than the
> antenna.




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 28460 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 00:07:19 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 00:07:19 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AiWS-0004kQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 23:58:52 +0000
Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AiWQ-0004kL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 23:58:51 +0000
Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-120-171.bellatlantic.net [151.200.120.171]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA03858; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:58:31 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <3884FE7D.747ECF3F@bellatlantic.net>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:59:58 -0500
From: "Andre' Kesteloot" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47  (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic
References: <3.0.1.16.20000117105039.0817cf64@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <388286AC.2ACD0DEE@netscapeonline.co.uk> <3.0.1.16.20000118115946.2ecfb390@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net id SAA03858
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Let me add the motto of William the Zwijger (the Taciturn), which was:
"Il n'est pas necessaire d'esperer pour entreprendre, ni de reussir pour
perseverer"
which can be freely translated as:
"It is not necessary to hope in order to try, nor is it necessary to succeed in
order to persevere",  which also seem to apply quite well to our LF work   :-)
Andre' N4ICK.
*****************************
Rik Strobbe wrote:

> And there is an old German saying : 'Probieren geht über studieren'
> (translated freely : to try is more important than to study).



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 16013 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 00:40:17 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 00:40:17 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Aj6R-00053g-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:36:03 +0000
Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.35]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Aj6Q-00053Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:36:02 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id l.c0.8efb6d (4447) for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:35:21 -0500 (EST)
From: G0MRF@aol.com
Message-ID: 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:35:20 EST
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Big LF Antennas
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 137
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

In a message dated 1/18/00 7:07:09 GMT Daylight Time, DK8KW@compuserve.com 
writes:

<< What is the name of that game, may I join in?         ;-)
 
 Vy 73
 
 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW, ex: AA5SV, C31JE, F0BEG, G5BXG, JY8KW, OK8AHC, OM9AKW,  
etc.  etc. etc.

What !!!!    No    VO1/DK8KW  ??
  >>


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 10886 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 02:20:23 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 02:20:23 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AkbZ-0005jI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 02:12:17 +0000
Received: from tk1.ihug.co.nz ([203.29.160.13] helo=smtp1.ihug.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AkbW-0005jD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 02:12:15 +0000
Received: from test (p33-max3.chc.ihug.co.nz [207.214.13.96]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA16146 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:11:00 +1300
Message-ID: <017301bf6222$b827f620$0200a8c0@test>
From: "Dave Brown" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
References: <85.b1aba0.25b54469@aol.com>
Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:12:47 +1300
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Tnx to John (KD4IDY) for the useful comment.

My point was that given the normal constraints on an amateur antenna LF
setup, bigger ain't necessarily better for verticals, when gunning for real
DX (2000 km plus)  Even a 'large' amateur antenna will still be a small
fraction of a wavelength at LF so will have significant high angle takeoff
as well as it's more immediately obvious (and useful) ground wave component.
Increasing the height will reduce the takeoff angle as you described, but is
this necessarily a good thing for amateur LF DX work?

Crossing the pond with amateur antennas will require some thinking outside
the square and it may be that trying to  minimise the number of hops is not
the best way to go? Sounds stupid? Yes !!

But consider this.. what sort of NDB antenna is in use at Galveston, Texas?
The GLS signal is heard quite regularly down here in ZL. OK, they run a bit
more transmitter power (2 kW? I think) than the usual NDB but not
significantly more than some LF amateur stations and I doubt the tx antenna
configuration is much different to the usual top loaded vertical NDB setup.
It will have significant high angle radiation which would normally be
consided undesirable but I suspect is the main contributor to the signal we
hear down here.

A typical larger amateur vertical antenna will have to have more than just
size to compete when it come to real LF DX, (2000 km plus). High efficiency
is paramount and we all know the biggest loss factor by far in any vertical
antenna system used for LF is the ground loss. Big towers with poor or even
mediocre grounds will fail miserably. I can speak with experience on this
having used  ex BC band tx masts in both situations for LF experimental
transmissions. The one with the far better ground system gave an impressive
improvment (2-3 'S' points at 2000 km) over that with the poor ground.  Got
similar reports from locals( 300km) as well.

Perhaps the most interesting thing to consider is the fact that for the last
8 or 9 years, the biggest  LF signal out of ZL has consistently been that of
Bruce, ZL1WB. His antenna is quite extensive, but it is NOT vertical!  He
has 3500 feet of wire strung across a gully in a roughly north-south
direction and with a 40 watt transmitter gets excellent night-time reception
reports in Eastern VK as well as all over ZL.   He almost certainly will
have a good signal in many areas of the Pacific but there are no listeners
there to confirm.(Yet! Maybe we need a few Dxpeditions- any volunteers for a
Pacific Island LF listening 'holiday'!!)

Another aspect that has been noted already is the problem of  LF reception
with large antennas. Reception requires a useable sig/noise ratio, and large
antennas usually don't perform that well at LF in this regard because of all
the QRM and QRN that they tend to pick up. Working VK  a year or  two ago we
had to forget all about reception on the big vertical. We could hear the
signals but QRN/QRM made it virtually impossible to copy.  Static crashes
and electric fence interference were literally pegging the 'S' meter.
Switching to a smaller 'random wire' antenna gave R5 sigs with what appeared
on an aural basis to be perhaps only an 'S' point drop in  signal level but
very little QRN. End result- probably a 30 dB improvment in sig/noise. You
can probably only begin to appreciate what this means when you have actually
tried using a really big antenna for LF reception.

So while 'bigger is better'  may be the catchcry for some I'll be surprised
if they are the ones who actually make it across the pond first. My money
will be on those who have efficient (not necessarily big) antennas, located
close to or on, the respective coasts, that can as KD4IDY sez, really run
the full gallon on transmit, are good operators, and  above all, are
prepared to keep at it!

73
Dave
ZL3FJ




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 15089 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 06:59:46 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 06:59:46 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AoyK-0007X0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 06:52:04 +0000
Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.35]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AoyI-0007Wv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 06:52:02 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id l.b1.11c2388 (3966) for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:51:22 -0500 (EST)
From: WarmSpgs@aol.com
Message-ID: 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:51:22 EST
Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 70
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Thanks, Dave.  I think we agree on all but a few points, which may have to do 
with perspective.  After commenting on that, I have an announcement that may 
hearten those preparing to undertake this bold venture.  But first--

You make a very important point about the ground system.  And, it is 
certainly true that an emphasis on antenna height will not be the conclusive 
factor in transoceanic success.  But wherever a vertical antenna is employed 
at the transmit end, height will surely help!

As I mentioned in my earlier post, for military and commercial antennas at MF 
and LF, we attempt to concentrate as much energy as possible in the first few 
degrees above ground.  Higher angle radiation contributes to skip zones at 
moderate ranges, and is largely wasted for long-distance skywave because it 
suffers so much attenuation with each hop.

Perhaps I overemphasized takeoff angle, because as we both agree, amateurs 
won't have opportunities to utilize vertical masts of a sufficient fraction 
of a wavelength to suppress high-angle radiation.  The point I was trying to 
make is that, while we may not be able to suppress high angle radiation to 
the extent commercial users do, we still need to maximize radiation at lower 
angles.

What's good for the groundwave is (generally) good for the low-angle skywave. 
 And, within our limitations, anything one can do to increase both the real 
and effective height of a vertical antenna will help those signals.

You ask, "Increasing the height will reduce the takeoff angle as you 
described, but is
 this necessarily a good thing for amateur LF DX work?"  Yes, although we'll 
never be able to do it well enough to affect the outcome based on that factor 
alone.

The Galveston NDB is a good example.  I haven't seen the facility myself, but 
I've talked with people who have seen it.  If I remember correctly, it is a 
bit taller than average, but is very heavily top loaded as you suggest, and 
with a serious ground system in highly conductive soil.  I'm sure it does 
have quite a bit of high-angle radiation, but the key to its success is the 
powerful groundwave, and the skywave component immediately above ground.

At the frequency of GLS, the groundwave itself is effectively useless by 
150-200 miles, and contributes nothing further to DX.  Skywaves 20 to 30 
degrees above the horizon do, in fact, interfere with the groundwave at that 
distance, but provide nighttime coverage subject to considerable QSB between 
that distance and about 1000 miles.  I live within that zone, and as a 
result, I'd have more trouble copying GLS consistently than you might have.  
:-)

At even 20 degrees departure, it could take 60 to 100 hops to reach ZL; yet a 
dozen hops is generally enough to attenuate their signal too much to be 
useful.  For anything remotely approaching regular reception, the hops cannot 
be less than about 1000 miles each.  This indicates the part of their signal 
being received in ZL is launched at angles of less than 5 degrees.

For ham purposes, we can follow the Galveston model and not worry excessively 
about suppressing high-angle radiation, but still must concentrate on 
maximizing groundwave and low-angle skywave.  To do this with a vertical, 
both height and top loading (to improve current distribution and, hence, 
effective height) are essential tools.  A taller vertical has higher 
radiation resistance than a shorter one, reducing the amount of power lost in 
any real-world ground system.

Both real and effective height also reduce the losses in surrounding 
vegetation and other objects that seem to plague many amateurs on LF.

As with all engineering problems, practical compromises have to be made.  It 
won't be possible for everyone making the attempt to have the same antenna 
efficiency.  If some have to obtain 1 watt out by pumping kilowatts into a CB 
whip, well, so be it.    But wherever one is using a 
vertical and it IS feasible to have a bit more height, then the extra effort 
could pay off.

Note also that I am not advocating verticals for transoceanic reception.  
Wave antennas or loops are clearly better suited.  The great Atlantic 
longwave stations of the past used verticals of one type or another for 
transmission (the chief differences being in how they were top-loaded and 
tuned) but employed Beverage antennas at remotely located sites for reception.

As amateurs, we may not be able to appreciably separate our transmit and 
receive antennas, but it will behoove us not to fit a square peg into a round 
hole.  Given the daunting demands of this particular effort, we can and 
should use the most appropriate antenna we can install for each task.

Now, the encouraging note I mentioned.  Perhaps I missed it during the 
holidays, but I don't recall seeing mention on this reflector of an item that 
made big news in BPSK circles here:  On December 27th, VE2IQ in Quebec 
received LowFER beacon TEXAS, just northeast of Dallas, at a distance of 2438 
Km, or 1515 statute miles.  Now, granted that the message at the time simply 
consisted of the characters TX followed by a space, and also that there were 
relatively few hits out of ten hours of recording, it's still pretty 
remarkable.

WD5CVG has spent quite a bit of time optimizing the TEXAS antenna, ground 
system, and tuning network.  Even so, with the U.S. limits of a 15 meter 
antenna and one watt d.c. input on 1750m, this only amounts to 5 milliwatts 
EIRP.

Half the width of the Atlantic with 5 mw--almost makes a whole watt seem 
extravagant, doesn't it?  :-)

73,
John


In a message dated 00-01-18 21:17:22 EST, tractorb@ihug.co.nz writes:

<< Subj:     Re: LF: Transatlantic
 Date:  00-01-18 21:17:22 EST
 From:  tractorb@ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown)
 Sender:    majordom@post.thorcom.com
 Reply-to:  rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
 To:    rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
 
 Tnx to John (KD4IDY) for the useful comment.
 
 My point was that given the normal constraints on an amateur antenna LF
 setup, bigger ain't necessarily better for verticals, when gunning for real
 DX (2000 km plus)  Even a 'large' amateur antenna will still be a small
 fraction of a wavelength at LF so will have significant high angle takeoff
 as well as it's more immediately obvious (and useful) ground wave component.
 Increasing the height will reduce the takeoff angle as you described, but is
 this necessarily a good thing for amateur LF DX work?
 
 Crossing the pond with amateur antennas will require some thinking outside
 the square and it may be that trying to  minimise the number of hops is not
 the best way to go? Sounds stupid? Yes !!
 
 But consider this.. what sort of NDB antenna is in use at Galveston, Texas?
 The GLS signal is heard quite regularly down here in ZL. OK, they run a bit
 more transmitter power (2 kW? I think) than the usual NDB but not
 significantly more than some LF amateur stations and I doubt the tx antenna
 configuration is much different to the usual top loaded vertical NDB setup.
 It will have significant high angle radiation which would normally be
 consided undesirable but I suspect is the main contributor to the signal we
 hear down here.
 
 A typical larger amateur vertical antenna will have to have more than just
 size to compete when it come to real LF DX, (2000 km plus). High efficiency
 is paramount and we all know the biggest loss factor by far in any vertical
 antenna system used for LF is the ground loss. Big towers with poor or even
 mediocre grounds will fail miserably. I can speak with experience on this
 having used  ex BC band tx masts in both situations for LF experimental
 transmissions. The one with the far better ground system gave an impressive
 improvment (2-3 'S' points at 2000 km) over that with the poor ground.  Got
 similar reports from locals( 300km) as well.
 
 Perhaps the most interesting thing to consider is the fact that for the last
 8 or 9 years, the biggest  LF signal out of ZL has consistently been that of
 Bruce, ZL1WB. His antenna is quite extensive, but it is NOT vertical!  He
 has 3500 feet of wire strung across a gully in a roughly north-south
 direction and with a 40 watt transmitter gets excellent night-time reception
 reports in Eastern VK as well as all over ZL.   He almost certainly will
 have a good signal in many areas of the Pacific but there are no listeners
 there to confirm.(Yet! Maybe we need a few Dxpeditions- any volunteers for a
 Pacific Island LF listening 'holiday'!!)
 
 Another aspect that has been noted already is the problem of  LF reception
 with large antennas. Reception requires a useable sig/noise ratio, and large
 antennas usually don't perform that well at LF in this regard because of all
 the QRM and QRN that they tend to pick up. Working VK  a year or  two ago we
 had to forget all about reception on the big vertical. We could hear the
 signals but QRN/QRM made it virtually impossible to copy.  Static crashes
 and electric fence interference were literally pegging the 'S' meter.
 Switching to a smaller 'random wire' antenna gave R5 sigs with what appeared
 on an aural basis to be perhaps only an 'S' point drop in  signal level but
 very little QRN. End result- probably a 30 dB improvment in sig/noise. You
 can probably only begin to appreciate what this means when you have actually
 tried using a really big antenna for LF reception.
 
 So while 'bigger is better'  may be the catchcry for some I'll be surprised
 if they are the ones who actually make it across the pond first. My money
 will be on those who have efficient (not necessarily big) antennas, located
 close to or on, the respective coasts, that can as KD4IDY sez, really run
 the full gallon on transmit, are good operators, and  above all, are
 prepared to keep at it!
 
 73
 Dave
 ZL3FJ
  >>


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 16391 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 08:31:52 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 08:31:52 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AqQG-00086U-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:25:00 +0000
Received: from ds-img-6.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.139] helo=spdmgaaf.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AqQE-00086P-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:24:58 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaaf.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id DAA23969 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 03:24:23 -0500 (EST)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 03:23:57 -0500
From: "Holger 'Geri', DK8KW" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Subject: LF: Galveston NDB
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Message-ID: <200001190324_MC2-9555-D2B3@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Disposition: inline
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hello friends,

John (KD4IDY) wrote:

>The Galveston NDB is a good example.  I haven't seen the facility myself,
but 
>I've talked with people who have seen it.  If I remember correctly, it is
a 
>bit taller than average, but is very heavily top loaded as you suggest,
and 
>with a serious ground system in highly conductive soil.  I'm sure it does 
>have quite a bit of high-angle radiation, but the key to its success is
the 
>powerful groundwave, and the skywave component immediately above ground.

Some questions:

- what is the exact frequency of the Galveston beacon?
- is it worth to try to receive it here in Europe? Has it been heard over
here?
- does anyone have the exact geographical location of the NDB? I will be
staying a couple of days in that area by end of February, so with the help
of my GPS system I might be able to have a look


Best 73

Geri, DK8KW (W1KW)
http://www.qru.de



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 8708 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 09:13:02 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 09:13:02 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ar5g-0008PA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 09:07:48 +0000
Received: from tk1.ihug.co.nz ([203.29.160.13] helo=smtp1.ihug.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ar5d-0008Ki-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 09:07:46 +0000
Received: from test (p52-max6.chc.ihug.co.nz [209.77.128.52]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA19214 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:07:26 +1300
Message-ID: <018c01bf625c$e3c958c0$0200a8c0@test>
From: "Dave Brown" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
References: <200001190324_MC2-9555-D2B3@compuserve.com>
Subject: LF: Re: Galveston NDB
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:09:19 +1300
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 


----- Original Message -----
From: Holger 'Geri', DK8KW 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, 19 January 2000 9:23 PM
Subject: LF: Galveston NDB
***


Hi Geri

Galveston NDB 'GLS' is on 206 kHz exact.
 Its lat/long are given as  29N1900 094W5600.
 A 'local' may be able to translate that into a street/road address for you.

Most of the active LFers here in ZL have heard it. Best time here is an hour
or two before midnight local time, with due allowance for daylight saving
etc. We are lucky there is no local NDB below 210 kHz in ZL but there are
several on/around 206 kHz in VK and they can be strong enough to be a
problem at times. GLS is not usually audible here for more than a half hour
or so, often much less.  I guess the time 'window' corresponds to the
sunrise or pre-dawn period at the GLS end of the path. In this regard it may
be that the path is not reciprocal but we will have to try it and find out!

73
Dave
ZL3FJ





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 90 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 12:30:47 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 12:30:47 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AuAt-0001EF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:25:23 +0000
Received: from ulexite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AuAr-0001EA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:25:22 +0000
Received: from w8k3f0 (2410812479.dialin.freeler.nl [143.178.20.63]) by ulexite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id C34D7FAECD for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:24:54 -0100 (GMT)
Message-ID: <004901bf6278$c867b2e0$3f14b28f@w8k3f0>
From: "Dick Rollema" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
References: <000001bf5f51$d60673c0$0600a8c0@main> <3884299F.1049422C@club-internet.fr>
Subject: LF: Re: LORAN-C
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 13:26:46 +0100
Organization: Freeler
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

To All from PA0SE

Mark, F6JSZ, wrote:


Hi folks!

Just for information, I've found and interesting Web page regarding
LORAN C. You'll find the complete list of transmitters, with their
locations and power output, at:

http://www.megapulse.com/table.html

When you click on the name of the site, you get a small map with the
approximate coverage of the transmitter. Maybe this would be of some helpT?




Thank you Mark for this useful information.

I found the following QTH locators for the stations of the Lessay Chain,
using a computer program written by Harry, PA0LQ.

Master/Lessay: IN99FD

Xray/Soustons: IN93HR

Yankee/Loop Head: IO52CO (under construction)

Zulu/Sylt: JO44DT



All stations have a power of 250 kW

73, Dick, PA0SE, a boy (only 18 m high aerial, only 150 W power, only one
callsign)






From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 5443 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 12:49:52 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 12:49:52 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AuSw-0001PS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:44:02 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AuSv-0001PN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:44:01 +0000
Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA138592 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 13:43:56 +0100
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000119144207.2dcffeca@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be>
X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 14:42:07
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Rik Strobbe" 
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Big LF Antennas
In-reply-to: <200001181301_MC2-953A-B202@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

>BTW: Thanks to all of you who have send a birthday-mail to my father Butz,
>DL6PE. He was, what we call in German "geruehrt" (and I dont know the
>English expression for it ...)

I think the English expression is "touched"

Rik  ON7YD



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 12769 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 13:15:57 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 13:15:57 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AutO-0001UA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 13:11:22 +0000
Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AutN-0001U5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 13:11:21 +0000
Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12AutZ-0000XH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 13:11:34 +0000
Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:53:34 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
From: "Mike Dennison" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:53:32 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: LF: More small sigs
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11)
X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq
Message-ID: 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Yesterday, I mentioned that I had heard IK5ZPV when the local 
noise suddenly went down to the lowest I had ever heard it. I forgot 
to say that I also heard CFH at S2 - and this was 2030UTC or 3.30 
local in Canada. All I need to do now is find out which neighbour 
switched his radio/tv/computer off - and it wasn't next door on either 
side.

Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT)
http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 26608 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 13:28:25 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 13:28:25 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Av1y-0001Vv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 13:20:14 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Av1x-0001Vo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 13:20:13 +0000
Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA142504 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 14:20:09 +0100
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000119151821.2cdf02e2@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be>
X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:18:21
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Rik Strobbe" 
Subject: Re: LF: SIGNAL
In-reply-to: <3884C2CC.BA56C8B9@netscapeonline.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

>Another consideration is a person that has asymmetrical ears.!!! There
>could be 2 S points difference in your report depending whether he is
>listening to the left or right. All these anomalies should be declared
>in a QSO.

12dB (= 2 S-points) seems a lot for someone with no hearing malfunction.
But maybe we should change our RST system from a simple 579 to 5R7S69
(meaning I hear you S7 with my right ear and S6 with my left ear).

Maybe we should introduce a qualification system where you need a certain
number of points before you are declared 'man' and are allowed to transmit
on 136kHz :

* 1 point for each meter your tower exceeds the hight of 20 meter
* 1 point for each callsign you ever had
* -1 point for every slow-CW QSO you made on 136kHz

A total score of 20 points is needed to be allowed to transmit on 136kHz.
I suggest that this new qualification system will become effective on April
1st 2000.

73, Rik  ON7YD

PS : please do not take the above serious.


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 18326 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 13:37:01 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 13:37:01 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AvCr-0001oG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 13:31:29 +0000
Received: from front5m.grolier.fr ([195.36.216.55]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AvCq-0001oB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 13:31:28 +0000
Received: from club-internet.fr (ppp-44-29-181.wmar.club-internet.fr [213.44.29.181]) by front5m.grolier.fr (8.9.3/No_Relay+No_Spam_MGC990224) with ESMTP id OAA21496 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 14:31:21 +0100 (MET)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3885BC9B.2A247E31@club-internet.fr>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 14:31:30 +0100
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
From: "M & S" 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [fr] (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-Accept-Language: fr,fr,es-ES
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Callsigns: I have some also!
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Since everybody seems to giving their callsigns, here are mine:

BRS52336, ORS52336/F, F11LPO, FB1JSZ, FB1JSZ/M, FB1JSZ/P, F6JSZ,
F6JSZ/M, F6JSZ/MM, F6JSZ/P, F5KTU, F5KAC, F5KEM, F6KLO, ON/F6JSZ,
DL/F6JSZ, OZ/F6JSZ, LX/F6JSZ, TM6Z, TM4CQ, TM5TSM, 4U1UN...

But maybe we could talk about LF and VLF?

73, Mark, F6JSZ


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 22789 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 13:53:12 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 13:53:12 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AvS3-0001uv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 13:47:11 +0000
Received: from front1m.grolier.fr ([195.36.216.51]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AvS2-0001uq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 13:47:10 +0000
Received: from club-internet.fr (ppp-44-35-192.wmar.club-internet.fr [213.44.35.192]) by front1m.grolier.fr (8.9.3/No_Relay+No_Spam_MGC990224) with ESMTP id OAA01612 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 14:47:04 +0100 (MET)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3885C068.11A1A7FA@club-internet.fr>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 14:47:45 +0100
From: "M & S" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [fr] (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-Accept-Language: fr,fr,es-ES
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: LORAN-C
References: <000001bf5f51$d60673c0$0600a8c0@main> <3884299F.1049422C@club-internet.fr> <004901bf6278$c867b2e0$3f14b28f@w8k3f0>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

I forgot, I've also been TM6JUN (that's for my previous message).

OK Dick, thanks for the locator information. I've dropped al this down
on a locator map. Once my my 136 dipole will be finally assembled
(probably during the afternoon or tomorrow, I'll try some measurements
on these different transmitter sites.

Results later on.

By the way, I'm located in JN04PX.

73, Mark, F6JSZ

Dick Rollema a *crit :
> 
> To All from PA0SE
> 
> Thank you Mark for this useful information.
> 
> I found the following QTH locators for the stations of the Lessay Chain,
> using a computer program written by Harry, PA0LQ.
> 
> Master/Lessay: IN99FD
> 
> Xray/Soustons: IN93HR
> 
> Yankee/Loop Head: IO52CO (under construction)
> 
> Zulu/Sylt: JO44DT
> 
> All stations have a power of 250 kW
> 
> 73, Dick, PA0SE, a boy (only 18 m high aerial, only 150 W power, only one
> callsign)


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 21461 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 14:12:36 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 14:12:36 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AviG-000238-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 14:03:56 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AviF-000233-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 14:03:55 +0000
X-Priority: 3
Received: from pickmere.demon.co.uk ([158.152.117.143]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 12AviA-000NFU-0K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 14:03:50 +0000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: 
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:09:09 +0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "M.J.Powell" 
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Big LF Antennas
References: 
In-reply-to: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

In message , G0MRF@aol.com writes
>In a message dated 1/18/00 7:07:09 GMT Daylight Time, DK8KW@compuserve.com 
>writes:
>
><< What is the name of that game, may I join in?         ;-)
> 
> Vy 73
> 
> Geri, DK8KW (W1KW, ex: AA5SV, C31JE, F0BEG, G5BXG, JY8KW, OK8AHC, OM9AKW,  
>etc.  etc. etc.
>
>What !!!!    No    VO1/DK8KW  ??

Is that G3IJE above? Oh no, it can't be. I'm G3IJE!

Mike
-- 
M.J.Powell


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 12953 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 16:05:05 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 16:05:05 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AxRZ-0002t9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:54:49 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AxRY-0002t3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:54:48 +0000
Received: from [195.44.222.142] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AxRT-0003c2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:54:44 +0000
Message-ID: <3885FF70.FBD8162B@netscapeonline.co.uk>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:16:17 -0800
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Big LF Antennas
References: <200001181301_MC2-953A-B202@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

That looks impressive but these calls are mostly around Europe, one day trips.
There are only a few that are DX. I did not include my one week trips around
europe, although I do operate /M and /P
on HF and VHF when visiting.
I like to hear about others that travel and work abroad from dx locations.
Perhaps we should put a DXPEDITION together and go to the
Azores/Iceland/Greenland/Andorra etc Places not too far away but we could
contribute something towards a 100 countries for LF DXCC.
No one over 60 need apply. We do not want anyone to EXPIRE winding up a 35
metre vertical mast. These portabe trailer masts are manufactured in the UK
but maybe also available in other parts of EU. Anyone interested ? The recent
dxpedition to the IOM was a good success by G3YXM/G3XTZ/G0MRF.



"'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" wrote:

> >I am impressed with all the callsigns that you listed from the past but
> you
> >have some catching up to do.
>
> What is the name of that game, may I join in?         ;-)
>
> Vy 73
>
> Geri, DK8KW (W1KW, ex: AA5SV, C31JE, F0BEG, G5BXG, JY8KW, OK8AHC, OM9AKW,
> ON8KW, OR8KW, PA9APG, SO3KW, S1AH, TK0BEG, VK6BKW, WD3B, Y29DH, 9H3RF,
> DK8KW/BY1BJ, DK8KW/EA, DK8KW/EA8, EI/DK8KW, EJ/DK8KW, GM/DK8KW, DK8KW/HA5,
> DK8KW/HB, DK8KW/HB0, IK/DK8KW, IK/DK8KW/1P0P, LA/DK8KW,  DK8KW/LX,
> LZ1R/DK8KW, DK8KW/OE, OZ/DK8KW, DK8KW/SU, DK8KW/SV2, TK/DK8KW, TR/DK8KW,
> DK8KW/VE6, 3A/DK8KW, WD3B/5N3 ... did I forget some? I don't know ...)
>
> BTW: Thanks to all of you who have send a birthday-mail to my father Butz,
> DL6PE. He was, what we call in German "geruehrt" (and I dont know the
> English expression for it ...)





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 8100 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 16:05:11 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 16:05:11 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AxRb-0002tF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:54:51 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AxRa-0002t8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:54:50 +0000
Received: from [195.44.222.142] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AxRV-0003cH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:54:46 +0000
Message-ID: <3886075C.722287E4@netscapeonline.co.uk>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:50:04 -0800
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Comment - Transatlantic
References: <000501bf61c3$f89b2f60$393801d5@dave>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 



Dave Sergeant wrote:

> >From Dave G3YMC
>
> A few comments on recent mails.
>
> Although I agree that by and large the stations with high good antennas
> stand the best chance for transmitting across the atlantic, small antennas
> do offer some advantages for reception.  In particular, small antennas pick
> up far lower local QRN levels, which is particularly important on lf.
>
> It is worth noting that G3KEV apparantly does not hear my signals with the
> large antennas he uses - several far less well equiped stations at
> comparable distance copy me consistently.

Your neighbour G3XDV in his report dated Jan 16th, heard you at 329 so except
the wind happens to be in the right direction I probably will not hear you. Who
are the less well equipped stations at comparable distance that are hearing you
? I am the most Northern active in England until you get to MM0ALM near
Aberdeen.

>
>
> Of course for the transatlantic work low angle radiation is a must - a high
> vertical coupled with an excellent ground system does seem ideal for this.
> But that is not to preclude the better equipped stations with Marconis and
> similar, and there are several UK stations not on Mal's list who must have a
> sporting chance.
>
> As G3XDV says, the first thing to do is to establish if DCF39 can be copied
> in the USA - I suspect if it is not received there as strongly as we hear
> CFH the chances are slim.
>
> 73s Dave G3YMC
> dsergeant@iee.org
> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 27077 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 16:08:00 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 16:08:00 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AxRm-0002tM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:55:02 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AxRl-0002tH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:55:01 +0000
Received: from [195.44.222.142] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AxRh-0003cV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:54:57 +0000
Message-ID: <38864E84.3FDD2659@netscapeonline.co.uk>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:53:40 -0800
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: SV: Re: SIGNAL
References: <009701bf620d$ab4b5100$6f2697d4@oemcomputer>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 



Johan Bodin wrote:

> I agree with Steve. Besides, I suffer from astigmatism myself.
>
> Yes, there is a big difference between 1W ERP from a small
> garden antenna and 1W ERP from a 1000ft tower ;-)  It's like
> comparing the performance of canoe a with a 1hp outboard
> engine with the performance of a big cargo ship a with a 1 hp

GOOD LOGIC, of course there is a difference, some just do not
understand. They are blaming large antennas when in fact it is their
hostile environment that is the problem. What the small antenna and  its
small aperture is doing is attenuating the noise plus the SIGNAL on
receive and decieving you so you get confused and think small is best.
On transmit it is even worse.  Every qth is different and what suits one
does not suit another, however separate the argument about antennas and
hostile environments. Commercial operators on MF/LF,  site their large
antennas(tx/rx) well away from any noise source, and feed the signals
via land line to their office in the CITY.
Those with problems try looking for remote sites in the country, no need
to move house. Use your telephone line or uhf feed link.


>
> outboard engine... ;-)
>
> 73
>
> SM6LKM
> SM6LKM/P
> SM6LKM/M
> SM6LKM/MM
> SM6LKM/AM (hot air ballon)
> OZ/SM6LKM
> LA/...
> etc. etc.
>
> P.S.
>
> What has happened to this mail reflector?




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 27129 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 16:47:53 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 16:47:53 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AyBA-0003Bs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 16:41:56 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.41] helo=pyyhe.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12AyB9-0003Bk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 16:41:55 +0000
Received: from default (MCXIV.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.6.214]) by pyyhe.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA25071 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:52:15 +0200 (EET)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000119184203.008a6720@laatikko.saunalahti.fi>
X-Sender: vaiski1@laatikko.saunalahti.fi
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:42:03 +0200
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= 
Subject: LF: Signals strengths in OH
In-reply-to: <3886075C.722287E4@netscapeonline.co.uk>
References: <000501bf61c3$f89b2f60$393801d5@dave>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Fellows,

Now that G3KEV mentioned it (see below) there must be
some secret in latitudinal location in addition to
equipment available, power, antenna etc.

I listen to 136 kHz day after day and leaving out
OH3LYG and OH1TN (in this order) MM0ALM is always the
strongest "DX" and G3KEV comes next. What say?
PS  SM6PXJ is not bad either...

OH2LX, PJ2/OH2LX (1st /OH0 in Aland Island in 1954), hi.










>-- G3KEV wrote: ------------------------------------------
>Your neighbour G3XDV in his report dated Jan 16th, heard you at 329
>so except the wind happens to be in the right direction >I probably
>will not hear you. Who are the less well equipped >stations at
>comparable distance that are hearing you? I am the most Northern
>active in England until you get to MM0ALM near Aberdeen.


----------------------------------------------------------
V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland
------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------
E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 14431 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 17:40:23 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 17:40:23 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ayvy-0003ce-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 17:30:18 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ayvx-0003cZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 17:30:18 +0000
Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA153050 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:30:07 +0100
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000119192818.2217d2ba@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be>
X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:28:18
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Rik Strobbe" 
Subject: Re: LF: Signals strengths in OH
In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.20000119184203.008a6720@laatikko.saunalahti.fi>
References: <3886075C.722287E4@netscapeonline.co.uk><000501bf61c3$f89b2f60$393801d5@dave>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

I agree. I reported the systematic difference in signalstrenght of OH1TN
(often 10dB or more) in the UK versus Belgium already in 1998. It is also
remarkable that this difference in much less (or even dissapears) at days
of high magnetic activity (high 'A-values' in the solar reports).

73, Rik  ON7YD

At 18:42 19/01/00 +0200, you wrote:
>Fellows,
>
>Now that G3KEV mentioned it (see below) there must be
>some secret in latitudinal location in addition to
>equipment available, power, antenna etc.
>
>I listen to 136 kHz day after day and leaving out
>OH3LYG and OH1TN (in this order) MM0ALM is always the
>strongest "DX" and G3KEV comes next. What say?
>PS  SM6PXJ is not bad either...
>
>OH2LX, PJ2/OH2LX (1st /OH0 in Aland Island in 1954), hi.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>-- G3KEV wrote: ------------------------------------------
>>Your neighbour G3XDV in his report dated Jan 16th, heard you at 329
>>so except the wind happens to be in the right direction >I probably
>>will not hear you. Who are the less well equipped >stations at
>>comparable distance that are hearing you? I am the most Northern
>>active in England until you get to MM0ALM near Aberdeen.
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------
>V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland
>------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------
>E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi
>
>


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 8205 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 17:52:45 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 17:52:45 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Az9p-0003jP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 17:44:37 +0000
Received: from front3m.grolier.fr ([195.36.216.53]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Az9o-0003jJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 17:44:36 +0000
Received: from club-internet.fr (ppp-44-34-6.wmar.club-internet.fr [213.44.34.6]) by front3m.grolier.fr (8.9.3/No_Relay+No_Spam_MGC990224) with ESMTP id SAA04881 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:44:27 +0100 (MET)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3885F7EE.E4920F43@club-internet.fr>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:44:26 +0100
From: "M & S" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [fr] (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-Accept-Language: fr,fr,es-ES
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Signals strengths in OH
References: <000501bf61c3$f89b2f60$393801d5@dave> <3.0.6.32.20000119184203.008a6720@laatikko.saunalahti.fi>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Wait and see the F-land signals coming in...

Several 'big' projects are under way over here. Nobody's talked about
them yet (except me!), but I think that we'll be audible in good
conditions all over Europe.

Regarding the first transatlantic QSO, we'll be there, with big
antennas, great receivers, and a super transmitter...

Surprise?

73, Mark, F6JSZ (working)

=?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6?= Lehtoranta a *crit :
> 
> Fellows,
> 
> Now that G3KEV mentioned it (see below) there must be
> some secret in latitudinal location in addition to
> equipment available, power, antenna etc.
> 
> I listen to 136 kHz day after day and leaving out
> OH3LYG and OH1TN (in this order) MM0ALM is always the
> strongest "DX" and G3KEV comes next. What say?
> PS  SM6PXJ is not bad either...
> 
> OH2LX, PJ2/OH2LX (1st /OH0 in Aland Island in 1954), hi.
> 
> >-- G3KEV wrote: ------------------------------------------
> >Your neighbour G3XDV in his report dated Jan 16th, heard you at 329
> >so except the wind happens to be in the right direction >I probably
> >will not hear you. Who are the less well equipped >stations at
> >comparable distance that are hearing you? I am the most Northern
> >active in England until you get to MM0ALM near Aberdeen.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland
> ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------
> E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 28182 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 18:45:39 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 18:45:39 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Azzc-0004AK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:38:08 +0000
Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Azza-0004AF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:38:06 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id SAA11809 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:38:02 GMT
X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Message-ID: <2000011918370868199@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:37:08 GMT
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Peter Dodd" 
X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836
Subject: LF: Re: Antenna Modelling
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 
Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit


G3KEV wrote

> My 3 inverted L antennas are not strung together but spread out around the
> mast so go back to the drawing board. When I progressed from 1 to 3 inv L
> antennas I noticed signals up around 1S point (6 db both on tx and rx, also
> the total base loading inductance dropped to 0.9 mh. Your 1.5 db
> calculation does not correspond with practical observations at this qth.

OK. I accept that the real antenna might differ from the model. This 
is because I do not know the detailed structure of the antenna or 
your ground characteristics and had to make some assumptions. I went 
for 'good' ground rather than 'very good' or 'poor', which were the 
other options. You can plug in ground conductivity and dielectric 
constant into the model if it is known.

But lets accept your figure for the  improvement to the original 
inverted L, i.e. 6dB.

If you add 6dB to the original antenna gain figure of -15dB you 
finish up with a total gain of -9dB. Impressive!
This means you can achieve 1 W erp with a transmitter output power of 
25 - 30 Watts.

> Theory only points one in a certain direction but in reality the practical
> application often conflicts because of environmental considerations, ie
> ground conductivity, number of radials and type etc.

True, but again it can still be modelled by basing some of the input 
parameters on the real measurements.
As you are all aware the losses in the antenna are  the ground 
conductivity (and dielectric constant),  coil losses and conductor 
I^2 R losses, which are in series with the  antenna radiation 
resistance. If  I know all the physical dimensions of the antenna, 
the transmitter power and the antenna current I can calculate the 
antenna radiation resistance (and antenna gain), and hence the losses 
(by altering the ground characteristics until the power and the 
antenna current agree with the supplied data). From that, erp, which 
I take to be the power dissipated in the radiation resistance, can be 
calculated by using a lossless model.

It may not be perfect but, in the past, the calculated results have 
correlated well with observed signal level/distance readings.


-- 
Regards, Peter, G3LDO









From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 24093 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 19:32:28 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 19:32:28 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12B0gt-0004Uk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:22:51 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12B0gs-0004Uf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:22:50 +0000
Received: from [195.44.223.109] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12B0go-0003y3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:22:46 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <38867F54.DDB61F1C@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:21:56 -0800
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "rsgb" 
Subject: LF: EARS
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Seen some response to the asymmetrical ear syndrom but got a lot of
private mail indicating that it was more common than one would imagine.
Since I mentioned it lots of operators have been testing themselves and
find it is a fact, although they never thought of it before.
This prompted some to test their eyes and again find if using LMCW(QRSS)
spectogram there is a squint element or asymmetrical eye syndrom, giving
a FSK effect in some cases, one eye reading a dot dash while the other
reads a dash dot. Of the three defects ie ears, eyes and small loops the
most serious is the ears because only a minority use the others. Given a
combination of all three is a disaster for the LF operator. Those in
VK/ZL have a fourth dimension Double frequency shift while working into
the northern hemisphere, seeing things totally upside down!!!!!

G3KEV




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 15529 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 19:32:53 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 19:32:53 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12B0go-0004Ud-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:22:46 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12B0gl-0004UY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:22:43 +0000
Received: from [195.44.223.109] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12B0gg-0003xx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:22:39 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <38867B76.A3CCE701@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:05:26 -0800
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "rsgb" 
Subject: LF: cq galore
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

CQ's galore. OG5UFO, OH7OL. DL3FDO, IK5ZPV and HB2ASB and no one
replying to them. Gave IK5ZPV  a call and gave him 569 got 559, then
HB2ASB, got 589 gave him 559.
Did not reply to the others at this time.
Who says big verticals do not work. I did not hear any of the loop or
low horizontals fraternity call and work any of them. Expect they did
not hear them. The vertical at this qth is used to TX and RX although I
have several other alternatives available I do not use them for 136 khz.

The vertical is great in a friendly environment.
Thought you would like this bit of information !!!
73 de Mal/G3KEV






From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 19825 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 19:45:08 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 19:45:08 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12B0wg-0004bK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:39:10 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12B0wf-0004bF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:39:09 +0000
Received: from [195.44.221.248] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12B0wb-0005D3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:39:05 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <38868327.6C80C85D@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:38:16 -0800
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "rsgb" 
Subject: LF: monkey
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Years ago I was doing some R and D at Canedon near Southend on Sea.
We were using some wooden masts each 300 ft high ex radar experimental
masts.
I had a KW2000A rig in my car working/M. I met a local chap who was a
radio ham called Peter and G3L something, its a long time ago and I do
not remember. He volunteered to climb the mast and put me up an antenna
for 160 metres. He was as agile as a MONKEY and probably still is
although he must be getting on in years now. Was this by chance G3LDO
who said in a recent bulletin that he had a lot of experience with very
high towers.
G3KEV
I




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 9429 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 20:18:33 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 20:18:33 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12B1PP-0004pM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:08:51 +0000
Received: from mta2-gui.server.ntli.net ([194.168.54.143] helo=mta2-svc.virgin.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12B1PO-0004pH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:08:51 +0000
Received: from virgin.net ([194.168.62.227]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net         (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP         id <20000119200751.FAPK28954.mta2-svc.virgin.net@virgin.net>;         Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:07:51 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <388619A2.E0AEEC8C@virgin.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:08:02 +0000
From: "Stewart Bryant" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: .
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Balloon lofted antennas
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

A friend of mine wants to put up a vertical in his back garden (actually

to operate on 160m), and is thinking of using a met balloon to hold
it aloft. I know that there has been some experience on this group
with balloons, and he asked me to post two questions:

1) Where can you get a met balloon in the UK. Are there any viable
alternatives.

2) Where can you get the gas to inflate the balloon

73

Stewart G3YSX



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 28836 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 20:39:38 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 20:39:38 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12B1g8-0004wA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:26:08 +0000
Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12B1g7-0004w5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:26:07 +0000
Received: from oemcomputer (man-020.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.41.24]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id UAA32461 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:26:02 GMT
Message-ID: <002201bf62b9$fe8ba660$1829f7c2@oemcomputer>
From: "John Rabson" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
References: <000501bf61c3$f89b2f60$393801d5@dave> <3886075C.722287E4@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Subject: Re: LF: Comment - Transatlantic
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:14:04 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 



> ? I am the most Northern active in England until you get to MM0ALM near
> Aberdeen.

Since when has Aberdeen been part of England?

73 de
John Rabson G3PAI




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 6051 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 21:33:10 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 21:33:10 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12B2bb-0005IV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:25:31 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12B2bY-0005IQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:25:28 +0000
Received: from [195.44.217.237] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12B2bU-0002vD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:25:25 +0000
Message-ID: <38869BE1.554DFC17@netscapeonline.co.uk>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:23:46 -0800
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Antenna Modelling
References: <2000011918370868199@zetnet.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 



Peter Dodd wrote:

> G3KEV wrote
>
> > My 3 inverted L antennas are not strung together but spread out around the
> > mast so go back to the drawing board. When I progressed from 1 to 3 inv L
> > antennas I noticed signals up around 1S point (6 db both on tx and rx, also
> > the total base loading inductance dropped to 0.9 mh. Your 1.5 db
> > calculation does not correspond with practical observations at this qth.
>
> OK. I accept that the real antenna might differ from the model. This
> is because I do not know the detailed structure of the antenna or
> your ground characteristics and had to make some assumptions. I went
> for 'good' ground rather than 'very good' or 'poor', which were the
> other options. You can plug in ground conductivity and dielectric
> constant into the model if it is known.
>
> But lets accept your figure for the  improvement to the original
> inverted L, i.e. 6dB.
>
> If you add 6dB to the original antenna gain figure of -15dB you
> finish up with a total gain of -9dB. Impressive!
> This means you can achieve 1 W erp with a transmitter output power of
> 25 - 30 Watts.
>
> > Theory only points one in a certain direction but in reality the practical
> > application often conflicts because of environmental considerations, ie
> > ground conductivity, number of radials and type etc.
>
> True, but again it can still be modelled by basing some of the input
> parameters on the real measurements.
> As you are all aware the losses in the antenna are  the ground
> conductivity (and dielectric constant),  coil losses and conductor
> I^2 R losses, which are in series with the  antenna radiation
> resistance. If  I know all the physical dimensions of the antenna,
> the transmitter power and the antenna current I can calculate the
> antenna radiation resistance (and antenna gain), and hence the losses
> (by altering the ground characteristics until the power and the
> antenna current agree with the supplied data). From that, erp, which
> I take to be the power dissipated in the radiation resistance, can be
> calculated by using a lossless model.
>
> It may not be perfect but, in the past, the calculated results have
> correlated well with observed signal level/distance readings.
>

Its all guesswork and even if you had all the facts it would only be a rough
estimate.
Forget the modelling and get outside and get your feet wet getting some real
hardware into the air.



>
> --
> Regards, Peter, G3LDO
>
> 




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 5212 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2000 22:36:41 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jan 2000 22:36:41 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12B3bE-0005mp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:29:12 +0000
Received: from [199.172.153.143] (helo=squealer.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12B3bC-0005mY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:29:11 +0000
Received: from magic.excite.com ([199.172.148.161]) by ewey.excite.com         (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP         id <20000119222310.NKZK2435.ewey.excite.com@magic.excite.com>         for ;         Wed, 19 Jan 2000 14:23:10 -0800
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <22175848.948320590009.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 14:23:10 -0800 (PST)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
From: "john sexton" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Mailer: Excite Inbox
X-Sender-Ip: 213.1.49.138
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hey guys,

Klaus von der Heide, DJ5HG, has come up with what sounds like a brilliant
idea. Can we turn into practice?

John, G4CNN





_______________________________________________________
Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
Visit http://freeworld.excite.com



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 23205 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2000 06:48:16 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Jan 2000 06:48:16 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BBHK-0000fJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 06:41:10 +0000
Received: from mta00.talk21.com ([62.172.192.40] helo=t21mta00-app.talk21.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BBHI-0000fE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 06:41:09 +0000
Received: from dave ([213.1.47.6]) by t21mta00-app.talk21.com         (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP         id <20000120063915.FKQO26117.t21mta00-app.talk21.com@dave>         for ;         Thu, 20 Jan 2000 06:39:15 +0000
Message-ID: <000501bf6311$4d017c00$062f01d5@dave>
From: "Dave Sergeant" 
To: "rsgb_lf_group" 
Subject: LF: IK5ZPV
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 06:40:20 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

>From Dave G3YMC

Six months or so ago I regular copied IK5ZPV (and I5MXX) at 579.  Lately his
signal has been much down, 549.  Is this change in propogation or has there
been a change at his station?

I5MXX heard 569 Wednesday evening.

73s Dave
dsergeant@iee.org
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 21300 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2000 08:31:59 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Jan 2000 08:31:59 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BCt0-0001NV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:24:10 +0000
Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BCsz-0001NQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:24:09 +0000
Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12BCsu-000Pi2-0V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:24:05 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3886C5ED.454BE16C@alg.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:23:09 +0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
From: "Steve Rawlings" 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Balloon lofted antennas
References: <388619A2.E0AEEC8C@virgin.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Stewart G3YSX wrote:
 
> 1) Where can you get a met balloon in the UK. Are there any viable
> alternatives.

I would also like to know a source of small meteorological ('met.')
balloons of, say, 700 mm diameter, that have good gas retention
properties.

At the moment I use 400 mm party balloons (sold as 'Punch Ball'
balloons), but only under conditions of low wind speed.  

> 2) Where can you get the gas to inflate the balloon

Your local stockist of bottled gas can supply helium, and it is normally
sold as 'balloon gas'.  ('BOC' is the name of one such organisation.) 
The gas is also sold by suppliers of party balloons.  I obtain the gas
in 'V' size cylinders through a deal with a local party balloon
supplier.  The deal is based on a monthly rental of the gas cylinder,
plus the cost of the gas used.

More information about my use of balloons can be found at:
http://www.alg.demon.co.uk/radio/136/balloon.htm

and:
http://www.alg.demon.co.uk/radio/136/experi_vert2.htm

Regards to all,
Steve GW4ALG


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 29765 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2000 09:28:32 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Jan 2000 09:28:32 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BDiz-0001iU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:17:53 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BDir-0001iO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:17:45 +0000
Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA51656 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 10:17:36 +0100
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000120111547.1307e51a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be>
X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 11:15:47
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Rik Strobbe" 
Subject: Re: LF: IK5ZPV
In-reply-to: <000501bf6311$4d017c00$062f01d5@dave>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

At 06:40 20/01/00 -0000, G3YMC wrote:
>Six months or so ago I regular copied IK5ZPV (and I5MXX) at 579.  Lately his
>signal has been much down, 549.  Is this change in propogation or has there
>been a change at his station?

I know that IK5ZPV runs lower power when it is raining (to prevent arcing).
But apart from that I have a 'day to day' signal strength variation on his
signal of over 10dB. I cannot give exact S-meter reports as my S-meter is
not calibrated for 136kHz but for me the signal to noise ratio is more
important than the absolute signalstrength (what is the use of receiving a
station at S7 when noise is S9). On a 'good night' both IK5ZPV and I5MXX
are up to 20dB S/N (solid armchair copy) the average (at a winternight) is
about 15dB S/N.
In practice this means that on a quite winternight noise is 'tagling' my
S-meter at about S1 and both stations are a S3 (average) to S4 (good). I
checked the S-meter (using a 1dB-step attenuator) and found out that S1 to
S3 is about 15dB while S1 to S4 is about 20dB. By ear I would give then a
589 report (good) or 569 report (average), last night I checked the
difference between my 2 ears but could not observe any (I'll have to check
a MD about that).
I have some filtering and attenuation between antenna and RX to reduce IM
products. Removing the filters and attenuators increases all signals with
about 15dB but then the whole band sounds like one boiling pot and only the
strong signals can be copied.

73, Rik  ON7YD


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 23099 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2000 09:32:56 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Jan 2000 09:32:56 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BDs5-0001oa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:27:17 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from ds9.sci.fi ([195.74.0.54]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BDs1-0001oV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:27:13 +0000
X-Priority: 3
Received: from default (MLVIII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.6.158]) by ds9.sci.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA00744 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 11:26:51 +0200 (EET)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000120112659.0086f2f0@laatikko.saunalahti.fi>
X-Sender: oh2lx@laatikko.saunalahti.fi (Unverified)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 11:26:59 +0200
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= 
Subject: LF: Decca signal strength in OH2
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Now that all Scandinavian Decca's are qrt, I have
test measured (GREEN frequency) levels of UK Decca's :
--------------------------------------------------------
Day ----------------   17 Jan   19 Jan   19 Jan   20 Jan
Time,UTC -----------   0520-    1655-    2135-    0515-
--------------------------------------------------------
127.8 (6C), 1435, 280,  -108     -119     -104     -103 
--------------------------------------------------------
126.7 (2A), 1565, 269,  -103     -121     -106     -105
--------------------------------------------------------
128.5 (8E), 1766, 276,  -107     -115     -110     -105     
--------------------------------------------------------
127.0 (3B), 1871, 257,  -106     -118     -106     -110
--------------------------------------------------------
127.5 (5B), 1890, 247,  -101     -112     -106     -105
--------------------------------------------------------
126.4 (1B), 2282, 253,  -115     -123     -118     -112
--------------------------------------------------------
128.93 REF, 1553, 228,   -84      -80      -80      -83  
--------------------------------------------------------
kHz    Ch   d,km  AZI   Indicated ESH2 input, dBmW
--------------------------------------------------------
(R&S ESH2/---- 10m coax---/1:10/---15m wire-----):
Noise level with antenna: with 200Hz IF BandWidth: 
-24..-22 dB(uV), -131..-129dBmW (varies w qrm etc)
--------------------------------------------------------
End of message of 20 Jan 2000, 1025 UTC, from OH2LX




----------------------------------------------------------
V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland
------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------
E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 24561 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2000 09:49:51 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Jan 2000 09:49:51 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BE59-0001rq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:40:47 +0000
Received: from alpha.dii.unisi.it ([193.205.7.2] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BE55-0001rf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:40:45 +0000
Received: from mailsrv.dii.unisi.it (pcfasec.dii.unisi.it [193.205.7.103]) by alpha.dii.unisi.it (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA11947 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 11:40:50 +0100
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3886D7B8.A68C4500@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it>
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 10:39:04 +0100
From: "Valerio Gabbani" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: IK5ZPV
References: <000501bf6311$4d017c00$062f01d5@dave>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 



Dave Sergeant wrote:

> >From Dave G3YMC
>
> Six months or so ago I regular copied IK5ZPV (and I5MXX) at 579.  Lately his
> signal has been much down, 549.  Is this change in propogation or has there
> been a change at his station?
>
> I5MXX heard 569 Wednesday evening.
>
> 73s Dave
> dsergeant@iee.org
> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd

Hello to all,

Thank for your report Dave,yes, i modified my antenna configuration after a wind
storm crashed the poles i used. (26/12/1999)
Now i have an asymmetrical T antenna, composed of a single horizontal wire about
100 mt long and 13 mt high.
This antenna is simpler than older one, shaped like an horizontal V with one arm
composed of only one wire abt 60 mt long, the other by 4 wire spaced 1 mt and
abt 33 mt long (the mean high of wires is the same).
The capacitance now is almost the same then before, so i use the same inductance
to tune.
The resistance at resonance is lower and i have more current  in antenna with
the same input power and in the MOS-FET, so i cannot use the TX at full power so
i use about 800 w rather than 1.200 w.
Now the horizontal wire for about 50% of his length run over an olive-grove with
trees 4/5 mt high.
May be this is the most important difference, so in the future i will try to
shunt the trees using radials insulated from ground.
Since last modifications at antenna i had several QSO with station i worked in
the past and reports seem on average almost the same i received.
Also some new field strength measurements made by I5TGC, I5MXX and IK5BQL (about
30 km apart from me) are the same that in the past.
I have some discordant reports, may be because propagation conditions are
variable, may be because antenna performance are different, so further reports
and suggestions are welcome.

I know that also I5MXX made radical mods to his antenna after the storm, but i'm
not able to say if are important variation in performance

'73, Valerio (IK5ZPV)




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 26253 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2000 10:49:52 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Jan 2000 10:49:52 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BErd-0002J3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 10:30:53 +0000
Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BEra-0002Iy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 10:30:50 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id FAA02313; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 05:39:59 -0500 (EST)
Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (8.9.0/) id FAA25886; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 05:29:44 -0500 (EST)
Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by umrsvr.hsd.utc.com; (8.9.0/) id FAA21947; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 05:26:35 -0500 (EST)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 11:23:23 +0100
Message-ID: 
From: "Soegiono, Gamal" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Receiving on 137 kHz Band
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 11:23:22 +0100
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 
Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

Dear LF friends

Hope you all experienced a "good landing" in new year 2000.

Using the DSP Receiver KWZ30 manufactured by Kneisner & Doering
http://kd-elektronik.com/kwz30_e/index.html
I come acros receiption problems which are related to the
spectrum occupancy and the Receiver Design.

=========================

The frontend of the KWZ30 handles the whole input spectrum
from almost DC up to 30 MHz, independent from the tuned frequency.
This is not a principle problem, as the first mixer has sufficient
large signal handling capabiity. 

First Mixer Output is at 75 MHz, which is filtered by a roofing 
filter, a 8-pole crystal filter with phase linear characteristic. 
The nominal BW of this filter is +/- 7.5 kHz (15kHz total) with 
moderate shape factor in order to keep phase deviations to a 
minimum. It does not (cannot) have the sharp shape as is common 
with SSB filters of the 8-pole design!

Next in the IF chain comes the first IF amplifier, the second mixer,
which outputs 456 kHz as the second IF unfiltered to the second IF 
amplifier. Up to this point the IF chain is in traditional analog 
design. 

All signals falling in the passband of the roofing filter 
i.e. +/- 7.5 kHz are processed in the same way as is the tuned 
frequency. The total level at the second IF amplifier output is 
limited by AGC action to a fixed level which is compatible with 
the following A/D converter (in order to not overload it). 
The strongest signal in the analog IF chain mainly determines the 
effective gain set by the AGC.

After digitizing the IF on 456 kHz level, a DSP accomplishes
final IF filtering with 9 selectable banwidths from 9kHz down to
50Hz, accomplishes demodulation, notching and noise reduction.
After all a DA converter retrieves the audio signal which is then
fed to a constant level recorder output and via audio amplifier
to headphone or speaker.

A more comprehensive description and test results can be obtained
from http://www.rnw.nl/realradio/kwz30_a4.pdf

=========================

Now lets have a look on the spectrum in vincinity of 137 kHz at my
place, captured by a (broadband) electrical vertically polarized
active antenna, 1m above GND. I concentrate on "big" signals only.

(1) DCF42 with it's pilot tone on 122.5 kHz is -55dBm into 50 Ohms
(2) DCF49 on mark frequency of 128.930 kHz is -31dBm
(3) DCF39 on mark frequency of 138.830 kHz is -52dBm
(4) DLF on carrier frequency of 153 kHz is -29 dBm

When tuned to exactly 137 kHz the frequency offsets
of these signals are:

(1) -14.5 kHz
(2) -8.07 kHz
(3) +1.83 kHz
(4) +16.0 kHz


=========================


Signals (1) and (4) fall into the stopband of the roofing
filter and are attenuated sufficiently and do not affect the
AGC action of the receiver (do not reduce the gain of the
analog IF chain).

Signals (2) and (3) however fall into the passband and experience
almost no attenuation relative to the tuned frequency of 137 kHz.
This leads to AGC to reduce gain in the analog IF chain in order to
limit the level fed to the ADC some dB below its overload point.

Theoretically (under laboratory conditions) the DSP filtering
and demodualtion IF chain can process signals with a dynamic
range of no more than 90dB (restricted by the ampitude resolution 
of the 16 bit ADC).

Practically I can detect a weak signal on 137 kHz which is
-102dBm in level (equal to the noiselevel). With the level of 
DCF49 of -31 dBm this makes a useful dynamic range of 71 dB
from largest signal (passing the roofing filter) to noise.

=========================

Practically this situation prevents me from receiving LF
amateur stations at distances beyond 70km !

The only stations heared up to now are:
DJ8WL alias DA0LF (27 km)
DF2PY (27 km) level -91 dBm
DF8ZR (31 km) level -102 dBm
DL3FDO (72 km) level -98 dBm

=========================

The limitations set by my special Receiver model is simply
due to physical law. Any Receiver of similar frontend design
will experience the same problem. Most Receivers I have operated yet
do not have roofing filters of less than +/- 3 kHz (6 kHz) BW
and shape factors better than 3 at the same time, except for 
special CW or RTTY receivers.

To overcome gain alias sensitivity reduction due to AGC being 
affected by the nearby (frequency and distance) strong stations, 
one shall use Receivers with "narrow" roofing filters.

For people living close to DCF49 a receiver shall have a roofing 
filter (assuming reasonable steep roll off, i.e. shape factor of 
2 or better) of no more than about +/- 4 kHz (8 kHz) in order to 
prevent AGC is affected by DCF49 signal level.

For people living close to DCF39 a receiver shall have a roofing 
filter (assuming reasonable steep roll off, i.e. shape factor of 
2 or better) of no more than +/- 0.9 kHz (1.8 kHz) in order to 
prevent AGC is affected by DCF39 signal level.

To make use of Receivers having broader roofing filters,
a dedicated LF preselector is indispensable. I have contacted
DK1AG Bernd Neubig [BNeubig@compuserve.com] who is about to design
such a dedicated LF preselector. He will show up in this forum
as soon as he finished measurements and a short presentation.

Using "selective" antennas is of no great help. I measured
the -3dB BW of my GWS-loop-9 antenna to be 900 Hz @ 137 kHz,
which leads to a Q of 152. This sounds great but signal (2)
DCF49 is attenuated by only 7 dB, signal (3) by 2 dB whwn antenna
tuning was optimized for 137 kHz.

=========================

DK8KW, Geri Kinzel provided me with data on his LF receiver
LWF45 from Teletron. The built in co-tuned preselector 
when tuned to exactly 137 kHz provides for the following 
attenuation figures:

(1) DCF42	-14.5 kHz	-41 dB
(2) DCF49	-8.07 kHz	-25 dB
(3) DCF39	+1.83 kHz	-4 dB
(4) DLF		+16.0 kHz	-50 dB


Best 73 de Gamal Soegiono







From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 11380 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2000 11:39:12 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Jan 2000 11:39:12 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BFpi-0002lK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 11:32:58 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226] helo=gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BFpg-0002lD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 11:32:57 +0000
X-Priority: 3
Received: by gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id MAA22561; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:33:25 +0100 (MET)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from somewhere by smtpxd
Received: from somewhere by smtpxd
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Message-ID: 
From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" 
To: "'rsgb_lf_group'" 
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:32:37 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hallo Group,

heared G3KEV in qso with HB2ASB. Tony was up to 579 and Mal was 559. later
he was only 339.
IK5ZPV was later at abt. 8:15 utc up to 559 . I tried several calls but the
only I got was a qrz? May be I have to improve my antenna.
Last saturday I installed a 1mH coil 20m afar from the feedig point. but
there was no increase of radiated power. The powermeasurement was taken by
DL6SAQ who is located abt. 20km away.

73 de dl1san

http://www.qsl.net/dl1san/



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 11682 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2000 12:49:09 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Jan 2000 12:49:09 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BGvA-0003KX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:42:40 +0000
Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BGv5-0003KS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:42:37 +0000
Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.53) with SMTP id 0996046 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:42:12 +0100 (MET)
Message-ID: <38882A74.2EB8F464@phonakcom.ch>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 01:44:20 -0800
From: "Toni Baertschi" 
Organization: Phonak Communications AG
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Receiving on 137 kHz Band
References: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Loop-Detect: 1
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

>>From HB2ASB, JN36pt

I have tried this receiver and from the performance side it is one of
the best I have ever tested but I would not buy it!
For me, ham radio is a hobby and not a profession (may be this is one of
the reasons why I have only one call sign) and I love nice looking
equipment with a good ergonomic front panel. The KWZ is one of the
ugliest pieces I've ever seen and very cumbersome to operate with it's
one knob concept (like the AOR3030).
Have a look at a Collins 51-S-1, this peace of beauty has really a soul,
it is a kind of artwork.
I told them in Friedrichshafen that they should get an industrial
designer and the answer was that this would be too expensive. They have
no idea about marketing - really a flop. I'll keep my (modified) RF590.

73 de Toni

"Soegiono, Gamal" wrote:

> Dear LF friends
>
> Hope you all experienced a "good landing" in new year 2000.
>
> Using the DSP Receiver KWZ30 manufactured by Kneisner & Doering



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 21236 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2000 13:03:13 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Jan 2000 13:03:13 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BH6p-0003R5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:54:43 +0000
Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BH6o-0003Qz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:54:42 +0000
Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.53) with SMTP id 0989129 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:54:36 +0100 (MET)
Message-ID: <38882D5D.CFD0C4F@phonakcom.ch>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 01:56:45 -0800
From: "Toni Baertschi" 
Organization: Phonak Communications AG
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Re:
References: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Loop-Detect: 1
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

>>From HB2ASB, JN36pt

Sometimes your signal is very good here (579) but as with other signals it
varies a lot and can even disappear in noise. It is not always signal strength
alone, also the (local?) noise situation is changing.
The most dynamic are the Italians (:-) their signals are going from almost
unreadable (sometimes during daylight) to unbelievable strong (same signal as
the "greek").

73 de Toni

PS. Yesterday I had only 300W (max. 1200 possible) due to matching problems
with frozen ground.


"Koenig, Wolfgang" wrote:

> Hallo Group,
>
> heared G3KEV in qso with HB2ASB. Tony was up to 579 and Mal was 559. later
> he was only 339.
> IK5ZPV was later at abt. 8:15 utc up to 559 . I tried several calls but the
> only I got was a qrz? May be I have to improve my antenna.
> Last saturday I installed a 1mH coil 20m afar from the feedig point. but
> there was no increase of radiated power. The powermeasurement was taken by
> DL6SAQ who is located abt. 20km away.
>
> 73 de dl1san
>
> http://www.qsl.net/dl1san/



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 22742 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2000 16:40:38 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Jan 2000 16:40:38 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BKNN-00052v-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:24:01 +0000
Received: from crcst349.netaddress.usa.net ([204.68.23.94]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BKNJ-00052q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:23:58 +0000
Received: (qmail 16881 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2000 16:23:48 -0000
Received: from www0a.netaddress.usa.net (204.68.24.30) by outbound.netaddress.usa.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2000 16:23:48 -0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: (qmail 11947 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Jan 2000 16:23:48 -0000
Message-ID: <20000120162348.11946.qmail@www0a.netaddress.usa.net>
Received: from 204.68.24.30 by www0a for [62.104.212.64] via web-mailer(M3.4.0.33) on Thu Jan 20 16:23:48 GMT 2000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Date: 20 Jan 00 17:23:48 MET
From: "Michael Oexner" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: [LF: Galveston NDB]
Cc: DK8KW@compuserve.com
X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.4.0.33)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hi Geri,


GLS-206 has not (yet) been logged by European NDB DXers. The only US mainland
NDB that I know has been heard (in the UK) is CLB-216 Carolina Beach NC. They
are using about the same power and antenna system (vertical) as DDP-391 (cf.
below). NDBs from Canada are "easier" catches in Europe (relatively
speaking).

Please have a look at the following URLs to see what has been heard in
Europe:

http://www.zen.co.uk/home/page/alan.gale/aoa.zip

http://members.aol.com/aibold21/ndbz.zip

http://members.xoom.com/MarkWA1ION/mo9910es.pdf

The exact coordinates of GLS are N29020'02.249" and W94045'22.401" according
to FAA information.

I just received a QSL from DDP (Puerto Rico, heard from Andalusia/Spain) on
391 kHz.

Let me quote from their letter concerning the antenna system: The equipment is
a Nautel transmitter running 3000 watts into a 300-ft. guyed steel antenna
tower. The antenna has a ground radial system consisting of 120 bare copper
conductors, No. 6 AWG, spaced at 3-degree intervals. Each radial is 598 feet
long. [end of quote]

I've heard this NDB on several occasions (December 1987 from Hillsboro in
Oregon/USA, February 1988 from Kauai each evening I tried, and now in October
1999 from Andalusia).


vy 73 + gd DX,

Michael


RX: ICOM R71A, Sony ICF-SW7600G, W&G SPM-3
Antenna: Radio West 22.5" ferrite loop with amplifier, Wellbrook ALA 100, 20m
longwire
Location: Roschbach, Germany N 49015' E 8007'
Member: CSDXC, DSWCI, EUNL, LWCA, MWC
Editor of "The European NDB Handbook"
e-mail: michael.oexner@spksuew.ron.de


____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 15919 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2000 00:33:38 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jan 2000 00:33:38 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BRmP-00083N-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 00:18:21 +0000
Received: from tantalum.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.80]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BRmO-00083I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 00:18:20 +0000
Received: from [213.1.140.97] (helo=default) by tantalum.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12BRmD-0003d4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 00:18:11 +0000
Message-ID: <000201bf63a4$78d255a0$618c01d5@default>
From: "Alan Melia" 
To: "rsgb_lf_group" 
Subject: LF: re Gamal's Rx report.
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:38:41 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hi Gamal, I tried to e-mail you direct some time ago but the message
bounced, I dont seem to have a working address for you.

It seems from your report that the old 'uns, could still be the best for
ultimate performance. I have been wondering about the DSP rxs that have been
around for some time in professional circles. I guess one has to balance
ultimate performance with ease of operation (by computer) now as there are
probably no 'real' radio ops (like all of us!) around still.

Lack of dynamic range suggests not enough bits in the ADC but I might be
wrong about that. One question I am not sure about....the concentration on
linear phase roofing filter....isn't this only really necessary for digital
signals?? Though I must admit it probably gives good impulse response, and
that seems important with the types of QRM and QRN on the 136 band.

I know what Toni means about design.....they don't make 'em like they used
to Toni. Now if I could only hide this AOR inside an old 51-J case with all
the knobs working on the functions directly.....

Thanks for the report Gamal very interesting.
Cheers de Alan G3NYK
Alan.Melia@btinternet.com



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 25593 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2000 02:47:15 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jan 2000 02:47:15 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BTvA-0000P2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 02:35:32 +0000
Received: from tk1.ihug.co.nz ([203.29.160.13] helo=smtp1.ihug.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BTv8-0000Ox-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 02:35:30 +0000
Received: from test (p52-max10.chc.ihug.co.nz [209.79.136.116]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA16666 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 15:35:17 +1300
Message-ID: <02b701bf63b8$76354c80$0200a8c0@test>
From: "Dave Brown" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
References: 
Subject: LF: KWZ30 rx
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 15:37:24 +1300
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 


----- Original Message -----
From: Soegiono, Gamal 


Thankyou for the very interesting summary of the KWZ30 receiver design and
performance.

My initial reaction is that it seems the analog section of the rx was
designed separately from the digital back end and no-one considered the
overall receiver performance. Deriving the AGC as you described, ahead of
the primary bandwidth determining filters in the digital IF,  would appear
to be the main issue.  Can you manually control the gain in the analog
section and turn off the AGC? Possibly not, as these digital designers tend
to get upset if they think the input signal range for their beloved number
crunchers is going to be exceeded. Makes them look bad! This may have been
the only design parameter that was discussed between the analog and the
digital teams involved!!! (I jest, but....)
Some form of coarse AGC in the analog section derived from a few steps
between say middle and top of the A/D converter range would surely have
helped solved the problem.

Interested in your figure of -102dBm noise level. Presume this was the
external band noise?  And what bandwidth was it measured in?


A related issue with that type of broadband front end has to do with noise
blankers.
The basic receiver structure you outlined is of course very similar to many
of the amateur (and other professional) receivers on the market these days.
The DSP back end is starting to appear in amateur rigs as well.
Such designs suffer from the detrimental effect that adjacent channel
signals ( actually, signals out to the extremities of the roofing filter on
either side of the wanted signal) can have on receiver performance with
noise blankers switched on.
To preserve as much as possible the noise pulse risetimes, the drive to the
blanker is derived from the aggregate of all signals inside the roofing
filter passband. So it is easily triggered by strong close-in signals
causing intelligibility of the wanted signal to suffer, in extreme cases to
the point of 'no copy'.   A strong close-in CW signal can be utterly
devastating.

With noise blankers in use more often than not on LF, a heavy price can be
paid.

 For the noise blanker an answer maybe use a separate noise receiver, as per
the old Collins scheme, with a separate 40 MHz broadband rx for the blanker.
That was OK for HF but in the case of LF reception I think a 0-100 kHz noise
rx would be more useful.
Anyone tried anything like this out?

73
Dave
ZL3FJ






From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 28200 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2000 09:54:56 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jan 2000 09:54:56 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Bad6-0002vI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 09:45:20 +0000
Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.211]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Bad4-0002vD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 09:45:18 +0000
Received: from [195.92.67.23] (helo=mail18.svr.pol.co.uk) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12Bad0-0002IF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 09:45:14 +0000
Received: from modem-151.naso-tang.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.46.151] helo=default) by mail18.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12Bacz-0001hc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 09:45:14 +0000
Message-ID: <000001bf63f4$4a871500$972e893e@default>
From: "wireless" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
References: <388619A2.E0AEEC8C@virgin.net> <3886C5ED.454BE16C@alg.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: LF: Balloon lofted antennas
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 09:42:55 -0000
Organization: T@ylor Training
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

My experience with met balloons is that they have little lifting power.  I
tested a met balloon which was 1 metre across and filled with helium.  It
really had little useful lift - its own weight is too much.  They are made
of quite a thick material.  Any kite system would do far better.
John Taylor  G0AKN
earth@wireless.freeserve.co.uk




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 26736 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2000 11:22:37 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jan 2000 11:22:37 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Bblg-0003Pt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 10:58:16 +0000
Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Bble-0003Po-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 10:58:15 +0000
Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #35) id 12Bbky-00076i-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 10:57:32 +0000
Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 10:41:15 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
From: "Mike Dennison" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 10:41:14 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: LF: Selectivity
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11)
X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq
Message-ID: 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Interested in the discussions about roofing filters. When I was using 
a ferrite rod antenna on 73kHz, it had a useful bandwidth of less 
than 1kHz and needed to be re-tuned for different parts of the band 
(that's when you could use the whole band - happy days!). This 
suggests that a few ferrite potted inductors in cascade would provide 
a front end roofing filter only a few hundred hertz wide at 136kHz. 
Even easier may be a notch at 138.8 using such a coil. 

Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT)
http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 1133 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2000 11:38:50 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jan 2000 11:38:50 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BcAN-0003YF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 11:23:47 +0000
Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BcAM-0003YA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 11:23:46 +0000
Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12Bc7r-00060X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 11:21:11 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <9239.200001211128@gemini>
From: "James Moritz" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: University of Hertfordshire
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 11:28:31 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: LF: QRSS operating procedure
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11)
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Dear LF group,
	I am almost ready to go with QRSS; however I have not seen a 
complete QRSS QSO yet, so I would appreciate some operating 
procedure guidelines from the regular users of this mode, before 
taking the plunge.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 22494 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2000 11:45:29 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jan 2000 11:45:29 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BcDJ-0003Yb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 11:26:49 +0000
Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BcDH-0003YP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 11:26:48 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id GAA05164; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 06:35:55 -0500 (EST)
Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (8.9.0/) id GAA16250; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 06:26:00 -0500 (EST)
Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by umrsvr.hsd.utc.com; (8.9.0/) id GAA32072; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 06:18:26 -0500 (EST)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:15:06 +0100
Message-ID: 
From: "Soegiono, Gamal" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: re Gamal's Rx report.
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:14:56 +0100
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 
Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

Dear LF friends

Thank you for the interest to my recent posting regarding 
receiving on 137 kHz Band.

Unfortunately this escalated into a discussion on benefit
or drawback on DSP in a receiver. This was NOT my aim.

I would like to outline the principle problem on receiving
weak and very weak signals in close proximity to strong
signals in general.

The main point(s) of my posting are:

	roofing filter bandwidth is critical to prevent
	gain reduction by AGC being affected by strong signal
	slipping in the passband of the roofing filter

	Special (very narrowband) preselectors may be used for
	receivers having broad roofing filters.

	Relatively selective antennas such as tuned magnetic receiving
	antennas may not help significantly.


Perhaps I did draw your attention too much onto my receiver.
I have only one receiver capable of tuning below 150 kHz
and this is (unfortunately) one using DSP. This attracted your 
attention - too much to my understanding.

The design of the analog frontend with it's "broad" roofing filter
is the limiting factor in my receiver for the purpose of
receiving very weak signal in close proximity to strong
signals.


====================================================================

To Alan Melia:

The DSP block itself works perfect. 

AM> Lack of dynamic range suggests not enough bits in the 
AM> ADC but I might be wrong about that. 

This is exactly the point. At the time where the receiver was
designed no moderate priced ADC were available which were
fast enough and had more than 16 bit of resolution. ADC with
24 bit resolution would have been the optimum for the purpose of
digitizing an IF of 456 kHz. The implemented 16 bit ADC in my
receiver restricts the theoretical dynamic range to 90 dB
(this was mentioned in my posting).

On the other hand, I don't be aware of any analog demodulator
which has such an dynamic range.



AM> One question I am not sure about....the concentration on
AM> linear phase roofing filter....isn't this only really 
AM> necessary for digital signals?? 

"Really necessary for digital signals" is very much correct,
Yes. The aim of the designer was to not impair the phase
respond in the analog front end very much below the capabilities
of the DSP part. By using "low distortion" roofing filters
the DSP can make the best out of the signal. 


AM> Though I must admit it probably gives good impulse 
AM> response, 

I can confirm this for AM and SSB modes. If I listen to a LF/MF 
broadcast radio signal with real (not oversized) 9 kHz HF 
bandwidth, I can tell whether the music played in the studio is 
origining from an analog magnetic tape or from a CD. Demodulation 
is realy "analythic" as compared to analog demodulators.


AM> and that seems important with the types of 
AM> QRM and QRN on the 136 band.

Being phase linear helps to reproduce any modulation
with great precision. Impulsive QRN / QRM on the other hand
is another story. As you probably know a frequency (filter)
characteristic in the frequency domain is always related
to a response characteristic in teh time domain.
The narrower a filter and the steeper it's roll off,
the slower it's response in the time domain.
This point was discussed in length in this reflector last
year.

Personally I don't like much the narrow and steep filters
on my receiver to listen in CW mode. A lot of phantom audio
(not intermodulation products!!) is audible when weak CW
signals were to be detected aurally, during presence of
impulsive noise. If I can I stick with filters of 500
or 300 Hz, if sensitivity is no problem. CW signals come
much more contoured with these BW rather than with 
200 or 50 Hz BW.


AM> I know what Toni means about design.....they don't make 
AM> 'em like they used to Toni. Now if I could only hide this 
AM> AOR inside an old 51-J case with all the knobs working on 
AM> the functions directly.....

I understand what you and Toni mean. If you temporarily
operate my receiver, being used to the traditional
layout of front panel controls, then it is a real mess.
Now as I am used to it, I don't find it preventing me
to optimze the receivers parameters quickly. Direct
front controls ARE BETTER, no discussion, but I don't
like to pay for it too much. I put more emphasis into
internal quality (reproduction of signal) than on
"neatniness".


AM> I tried to e-mail you direct some time ago but the 
AM> message bounced, I dont seem to have a working 
AM> address for you.

Sorry for that. I do email in my QRL. So I have to use
what is available. I have no access to parameters related
to correct addressing.

I had similar problems myself. It helped for me to put
the addressees email address manually into address field
rather than using the automatic feature when selecting
"respond to a letter".

Obviously we have one "real" address and an alias address:

soegiono@nm.hsd.utc.com
or
soegiono@nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com

Try both addresses, filled MANUALLY into the address
field of your email software, at least one should work OK.

====================================================================

To Dave Brown:

DB> My initial reaction is that it seems the analog section of 
DB> the rx was designed separately from the digital back end 
DB> and no-one considered the overall receiver performance. 

Definitely not. The designer team consisted of 2 persons
which used to cooperate successfuly for decades (one deceased
recently).


DB> Deriving the AGC as you described, ahead of the primary 
DB> bandwidth determining filters in the digital IF,  would 
DB> appear to be the main issue.  

This is what I tried to express.


DB> Can you manually control the gain in the analog section and 
DB> turn off the AGC? Possibly not, 

No way.

DB> Some form of coarse AGC in the analog section derived from a 
DB> few steps between say middle and top of the A/D converter 
DB> range would surely have helped solved the problem.

Actually there is one discrete step. When input levels exceed ?? dB, 
a ?? dB attenuator is put into the front end. But this is not
the same as you think about.


DB> Interested in your figure of -102dBm noise level. Presume this 
DB> was the external band noise?  

Not necessarily. The close in DCF49 signal (-31 dBm) activates the 
AGC and gain is reduced significantly. result: Noise figure of
receiver rises accordingly, further it reduces useful dynamic
range. If I tune to exactly 137.00 kHz and cannot hear any
"real" signal, there is already audio noise. Partially this
is local man made noise picked up by the antenna (I am living
in a suburban area), lot of electronic ballast whine audible
time by time. Main noise appears to be simply the receiver
noise level under gain setting condition affected by DCF49
falling into roofing filter's passband.


DB> And what bandwidth was it measured in?

The -102 dBm level was observed while receiving
DF8ZR. No real beat tone, but "modulated quasi white noise".
So I conclude this was the situation of "signal equals noise".



DB> receiver performance with noise blankers switched on.

I fully understand and agree with your concern. My receiver
doesn't have noise blankers. It uses noise reduction
(based on correlation perhaps) instead.


Best 73 de Gamal Soegiono

soegiono@nm.hsd.utc.com
or
soegiono@nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com








From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 11412 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2000 12:31:36 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jan 2000 12:31:36 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Bd87-000425-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:25:31 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Bd86-000420-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:25:30 +0000
Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA137074 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:25:16 +0100
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000121142326.12dffc6c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be>
X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:23:26
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Rik Strobbe" 
Subject: Re: LF: QRSS operating procedure
In-reply-to: <9239.200001211128@gemini>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

At 11:28 21/01/00 +0000, M0BMU wrote:
>Dear LF group,
>	I am almost ready to go with QRSS; however I have not seen a 
>complete QRSS QSO yet, so I would appreciate some operating 
>procedure guidelines from the regular users of this mode, before 
>taking the plunge.

Operating QRSS is rather simple, just a few 'specialities' :

- QRSS segment (inofficial) is 137600 - 137800, most activity is between
  137700 and 137750
- keep your CQ's short : 
  eg. CQ M0BMU K  not  CQ CQ CQ M0BMU M0BMU M0BMU PSE K
- report system is the TMO system :
  T = signal traces seen but not good enough for a QSO
  M = weak signal but good enough for a QSO
  O = perfect copy

some practical tips :
- during a QSO (once you are sure that both stations have the calls OK) you
can use the suffixes instead of complete calls
- if you see the end of a QSO and you want to contact one of the stations
you can start calling this station while is previous QSO is going on, just
call on another frequency.
- if replying to a CQ it is good to call NOT exactly on the caller's
frequency, this will avoid QRM in case more than 1 station is responding.

Good luck with QRSS

Rik  ON7YD
 


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 11422 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2000 12:31:42 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jan 2000 12:31:42 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Bd7o-00041y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:25:12 +0000
Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Bd7m-00041t-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:25:11 +0000
Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12Bd5H-0007UU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:22:35 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <16439.200001211229@gemini>
From: "James Moritz" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: University of Hertfordshire
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:29:55 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: LF: LF front end selectivity
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11)
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Dear LF group,
	I don't have any strong local signals close to the 136kHz band - 
the problem comes more from the MF Transmitters across the 
road, which deliver a watt or so of BBC radio 5 on 909kHz to an 
untuned 50ohm load connected to my LF antenna, so clearly some 
front end selectivity is desireable.

 My receiver front end uses an RM6 pot core inductor of roughly 
3mH tuned with a 1000pF variable capacitor, with a Q of 100 or 
so. This combines with the loading coil resonating with the antenna 
(Q also of the order of 100) to give a second order bandpass filter, 
and MF signals are attenuated enough not to affect the RF amp, 
which is a very ordinary JFET affair. I can confirm G3XDV's 
suggestion that this type of arrangement produces a useful degree 
of in-band selectivity - it's worth at least 10dB from one side of the 
band to the other. 

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 15375 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2000 13:00:56 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jan 2000 13:00:56 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BdZU-0004EI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:53:48 +0000
Received: from mb09.swip.net ([193.12.122.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BdZT-0004E8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:53:47 +0000
Received: from win95 (d212-151-39-82.swipnet.se [212.151.39.82])          by mb09.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP          id NAA21365 for ;          Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:53:05 +0100 (MET)
Message-ID: <000301bf640e$f13eaec0$522797d4@win95.swipnet.se>
From: "Christer Andersson" 
To: "RSGB LF group" 
Subject: LF: Tuned counterpoise
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:56:31 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

I came across an article from "Electronics World" Feb 1990.
"Reducing mast height at MF".
Tuned counterpoises are treated and some real world references are given.
I can send a scanned copy upon request.
73
Christer
sm6pxj




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 21637 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2000 17:47:14 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jan 2000 17:47:14 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Bi2a-00067A-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:40:08 +0000
Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Bi2X-000675-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:40:05 +0000
Received: from modem-124.ballerina.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.139.252] helo=lvm) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12Bi2S-0002wt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:40:01 +0000
Message-ID: <000201bf6436$84a9df00$fc8b883e@lvm>
From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Re: Tuned counterpoise
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:36:55 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Re.LF tuned counterpoise. Yes please would be appreciated.73s
Laurie.----Original Message-----
From: Christer Andersson 
To: RSGB LF group 
Date: 21 January 2000 13:05
Subject: LF: Tuned counterpoise


I came across an article from "Electronics World" Feb 1990.
"Reducing mast height at MF".
Tuned counterpoises are treated and some real world references are given.
I can send a scanned copy upon request.
73
Christer
sm6pxj







From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 29284 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2000 18:17:20 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jan 2000 18:17:20 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BiW1-0006Nh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:10:33 +0000
Received: from cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.171]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BiVz-0006Nc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:10:32 +0000
Received: from modem-41.name69.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.194.41] helo=lvm) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12BiVt-00018b-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:10:25 +0000
Message-ID: <000201bf643a$c5701140$29c2883e@lvm>
From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" 
To: "rsgb lf group" 
Subject: LF: Re.Ground Loss
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:08:22 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit










I have just measured my TX ant impedance(R term) 
and it is 120 ohm! much higher than I originally thought.It is of course all 
ground loss,I am using 3 ground rods close to the TX and the house water/mains 
system.I wonder wether anyone can  offer me comparitive figs for impedance 
and details of ground systems?


To improve I will have to put in an awful lot of 
radials! or consider counterpoises.


73s Laurie.


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 7848 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2000 21:38:45 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jan 2000 21:38:45 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BlY3-0007as-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:24:51 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BlY1-0007ad-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:24:49 +0000
Received: from as24-s15-145-38.cwci.net ([195.44.145.38] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BlXt-0003Gm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:24:42 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <38893764.14EF56CC@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:51:49 -0800
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re.Ground Loss
References: <000201bf643a$c5701140$29c2883e@lvm>
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit




 

LAWRENCE MAYHEAD wrote:

 I have
just measured my TX ant impedance(R term) and it is 120 ohm! much higher
than I originally thought.It is of course all ground loss,I am using 3
ground rods close to the TX and the house water/mains system.I wonder wether
anyone can  offer me comparitive figs for impedance and details of
ground systems?To improve
I will have to put in an awful lot of radials! or consider counterpoises.73s
Laurie.

All your rf is going into the ground
is it any wonder you are only S1 with me if the wind is in the right direction.

You need a better antenna plus
a good ground system, an acceptable value would be 50 but aim for 20 ohms.

I am still waiting to hear from
you about the dx that you are working when you said in a recent message
G3KEV  with his large vertical could not hear you but others with
very small antennas   at greater distances were hearing you.
Were you joking !!!! or is it alias Walter Mitty.

To encourage you I called and worked
you yesterday although you were only 219 and I was generous. Am I your
best DX to date - be truthful.





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 7977 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2000 21:39:33 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jan 2000 21:39:33 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BlY2-0007ao-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:24:50 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BlY1-0007ae-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:24:49 +0000
Received: from as24-s15-145-38.cwci.net ([195.44.145.38] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BlXw-0003Gr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:24:44 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <38893EDE.2B899341@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:23:42 -0800
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "rsgb" 
Subject: LF: receivers
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Most receivers around are adequate for 136 khz reception of radio
amateur signals.
Basically all that is required is a narrow IF filter especially at the
the last IF normally 455 khz to avoid adjacent channel qrm. At the rear
end a good audio filter.
I have a selection of 4 modern receivers some with dsp like the ft 1000.
Some are marginally better than others but all are totally acceptable.
My qth is non hostile, quiet environment, away from loran, mf or lf
broadcast station etc.
If you are unfortunate and live in a HOSTILE area, plaqued by every
conceivable noise then your receiver requirements are critical and
perhaps there is no receiver manufactured that  will cure your problem.
In extreme cases moving qth is the only way forward if one insists on
working LF.
Try an old tube Racal RA117 or RA17 L with a LF adaptor and 100 hz of IF
selectivity plus a good audio filter. They are large but going cheap and
should do the trick.
73 de G3KEV



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 9178 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2000 21:46:34 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jan 2000 21:46:34 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BlhO-0007cD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:34:30 +0000
Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BlhN-0007c8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:34:29 +0000
Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12BlhI-0000aG-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:34:25 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3888D0A3.85ED8E7A@alg.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:33:23 +0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
From: "Steve Rawlings" 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re.Ground Loss
References: <000201bf643a$c5701140$29c2883e@lvm>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Laurie G3AQC wrote:

> I have just measured my TX ant impedance(R term) and it is 120 ohm!
> much higher than I originally thought.  It is of course all ground
> loss . . . . 

With the simple verticals which I use on 136 kHz, I have always tried to
minimise the proximity between the radiator itself and earthy objects
such as our house; the garden fence; and nearby trees.  From earlier
contributions to this Reflector (thanks are due to Peter Martinez G3PLX,
and others), I learned that the parallel loss caused by the proximity
between the radiator and lossy ground translates into a
series-equivalent resistance - which, in turn, contributes to the [120
ohm] "ant impedance".  [I hope I have learned my lessons well, Peter!] 

So improvements to your ground system may help, but it might also be
worth taking another look at your antenna to see whether there are
opportunities for increasing the distance between your antenna system
and nearby (earthy) structures.

> . . . .  I wonder whether anyone can offer me comparitive
> figs for impedance and details of ground systems?

Before pruning trees in my neighbour's garden:
**********************************************
ANTENNA CONFIGURATION      WET DAY     DRY DAY
12 m vertical              160 ohm     130 ohm
20 m vertical              130 ohm     100 ohm

After pruning trees in my neighbour's garden:
**********************************************
ANTENNA CONFIGURATION      WET DAY     DRY DAY
12 m vertical              130 ohm     100 ohm
20 m vertical              100 ohm     75 ohm

Ground system
*************
Shack earth is isolated from the antenna ground connection using a
matching transformer.  'Cold' end of transformer secondary winding is
connected to outside water tap.  

For more information, see:
http://www.alg.demon.co.uk/radio/136/experi_vert.htm

The trees (prior to pruning) can be seen just behind (apple tree), and
to the right (flowering cherry tree), of my vertical antenna at:
http://www.alg.demon.co.uk/radio/136/pictures/expvert1.jpg


Regards to all,
Steve GW4ALG


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 11673 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2000 21:59:48 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jan 2000 21:59:48 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Blty-0007i1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:47:30 +0000
Received: from kang.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.28]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Bltx-0007hw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:47:29 +0000
Received: from p156.lifford1.eircom.net ([159.134.235.156] helo=eircom.net) by kang.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 12Bltr-0003vB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:47:23 +0000
Message-ID: <000d01bf6459$d135e3a0$9ceb869f@net>
From: "Finbar O'Connor" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
References: <000301bf640e$f13eaec0$522797d4@win95.swipnet.se>
Subject: LF: Re: Tuned counterpoise
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:52:23 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Re  Tuned Countepoises, I have experimented with these, nothing conclusive
yet. I would be delighted to get a copy of the article mentioned. Thank you.
Best regards
Finbar   EI0CF    Malin Head.
----- Original Message -----
From: Christer Andersson 
To: RSGB LF group 
Sent: 21 January 2000 12:56
Subject: LF: Tuned counterpoise


I came across an article from "Electronics World" Feb 1990.
"Reducing mast height at MF".
Tuned counterpoises are treated and some real world references are given.
I can send a scanned copy upon request.
73
Christer
sm6pxj







From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 10529 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2000 23:57:15 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jan 2000 23:57:15 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BnnF-0008Tb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 23:48:41 +0000
Received: from cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.171]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BnnD-0008TW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 23:48:40 +0000
Received: from modem-15.rocknroll.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.105.143] helo=lvm) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12Bnn9-00007V-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 23:48:35 +0000
Message-ID: <000201bf646a$02599700$8f69883e@lvm>
From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" 
To: "rsgb lf group" 
Subject: LF: G3KEV  LF Ground Loss.
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 23:32:59 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit










Hi Mal


I think youve got me mixed up with someone else! 
we certainly didnt work yesterday! To answer your question my best DX to date, 
OH1TN. not too bad for a "Boy" with only one call sign, and also I am 
over 60 !!!


Thanks to all those who gave me information on 
ground losses including M0MBU and GW4ALG.


73s Laurie.


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 25482 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2000 02:02:48 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jan 2000 02:02:48 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Bph3-0000oW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:50:25 +0000
Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.157]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Bph1-0000oR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:50:24 +0000
Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-118-83.bellatlantic.net [151.200.118.83]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA02697; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:50:14 -0500 (EST)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <38890D24.C08566B2@bellatlantic.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:51:33 -0500
From: "Andre' Kesteloot" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47  (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Rsgb_lf_group" 
Cc: "lf-amrad" 
Subject: LF: Revealing Photographs ...
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

hello LF Enthusiasts,
Some details of our recent trip to Nags Head are available on:

http://www.amrad.org/projects/lf/

including pictures of antennas, equipment setup, and even of yours
truly being interviewed by the local constabulary while installing an
antenna on the beach ...
73
Andre'





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 18578 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2000 07:31:56 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jan 2000 07:31:56 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BurJ-0002ir-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 07:21:21 +0000
Received: from mta00.talk21.com ([62.172.192.40] helo=t21mta00-app.talk21.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BurI-0002ij-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 07:21:20 +0000
Received: from dave ([213.1.28.136]) by t21mta00-app.talk21.com         (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP         id <20000122071923.ZITX26117.t21mta00-app.talk21.com@dave>         for ;         Sat, 22 Jan 2000 07:19:23 +0000
Message-ID: <000101bf64a9$3ea4c6a0$881c01d5@dave>
From: "Dave Sergeant" 
To: "rsgb_lf_group" 
Subject: LF: RX Input filters
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:32:14 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

>From Dave G3YMC

I also use a sharply tuned front end to my receiver, having a fixed tuned
circuit at the input of my receive converter and a second one at the output
of the FET preamp.  Bandwidth is around a couple of kHz, which is adequate.
DCF39 is already down on the filter slope and is probably why I give lower
reports on it than some.  I suffer no signs of receiver crossmod.  The
circuit can be found on my web site.

Sound bias oscillator transformers from scrap VCRs make ideal transformers
for this purpose - you will fiind one in the bias oscillator of virtually
every video made, audio tape recorder ones may also be suitable.  The
secondary high output winding of these transformers usually has an
inductance of 1-2mH, and can be easily resonated on 136.

73s Dave G3YMC
dsergeant@iee.org
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 1526 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2000 08:35:13 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jan 2000 08:35:13 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BvvG-00039O-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 08:29:30 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BvvD-00039H-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 08:29:27 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from dennison.demon.co.uk ([194.222.239.33]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12Bvv9-0007vq-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 08:29:24 +0000
Message-ID: 
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 08:28:07 +0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Mike Dennison" 
Subject: Re: LF: Revealing Photographs ...
In-reply-to: <38890D24.C08566B2@bellatlantic.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

In message <38890D24.C08566B2@bellatlantic.net>, Andre' Kesteloot
 writes
>Some details of our recent trip to Nags Head are available on:
>
>http://www.amrad.org/projects/lf/
>
>including pictures of antennas, equipment setup, and even of yours
>truly being interviewed by the local constabulary while installing an
>antenna on the beach ...

Ah, the joys of portable operating. I've been challenged by the police,
the military police and the coastguard in my time, as well as an
assortment of wierd locals. I suppose it's reassuring that cranks like
us get challenged. What if it were somebody really sinister.
-- 
Mike, G3XDV
IO91VT
http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 27937 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2000 09:00:07 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jan 2000 09:00:07 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BwHD-0003Js-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 08:52:11 +0000
Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12BwHC-0003Jn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 08:52:10 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA20359 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 08:52:07 GMT
X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Message-ID: <2000012208514168199@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 08:51:41 GMT
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Peter Dodd" 
X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836
Subject: Re: LF: Tuned counterpoise
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 
Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

Hello Christer
> I came across an article from "Electronics World" Feb 1990.
> "Reducing mast height at MF".
> Tuned counterpoises are treated and some real world references are =
> given.
> I can send a scanned copy upon request.

I would be very pleased to get a copy. I have a problem with the 
Amberley Museum GB2CPM site where the ground is chalk.

In return I could send you a copy of "The Earthing Resistance of 
Antennae" by Dr. Ing A. Meissner, from an old Year Book of Wireless 
Telegraphy and Telephony.



-- 
Regards, Peter, G3LDO









From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 13456 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2000 15:34:46 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jan 2000 15:34:46 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12C2Q0-0005cY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 15:25:40 +0000
Received: from mta00.talk21.com ([62.172.192.40] helo=t21mta00-app.talk21.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12C2Py-0005cT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 15:25:39 +0000
Received: from dave ([213.1.41.219]) by t21mta00-app.talk21.com         (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP         id <20000122152341.BTPY26117.t21mta00-app.talk21.com@dave>         for ;         Sat, 22 Jan 2000 15:23:41 +0000
Message-ID: <004901bf64ec$e6b2cc00$db2901d5@dave>
From: "Dave Sergeant" 
To: "rsgb_lf_group" 
Subject: LF: Nags Head
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 14:17:33 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

>From Dave G3YMC

I looked at the information and pictures on the Amrad site of the recent
Nag's Head Dx-pedition today, which I found interesting.  I note however
there is no mention of either the DCF39 signal (138.8) or CFH, the latter at
least I would have expected to be audible there.  Mike G3XDV mentioned this
week that reception of DCF39 must be a good indicator of a possible DX path
to Europe.  However identification of this signal may be the problem as it
is a continuous carrier with periodic bursts of data, and as such would
appear as a solid line on a DSP display.

73s Dave G3YMC
dsergeant@iee.org
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd






From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 4081 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2000 16:51:13 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jan 2000 16:51:13 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12C3Z4-00064j-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 16:39:06 +0000
Received: from cask.force9.net ([195.166.128.29]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12C3Z3-00064e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 16:39:05 +0000
Received: (qmail 24355 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2000 16:38:56 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2000 16:38:56 -0000
Received: (qmail 21439 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2000 16:38:55 -0000
Received: from 27.39-01.quay.dial.plus.net.uk (HELO main) (212.159.120.27) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jan 2000 16:38:55 -0000
Message-ID: <01de01bf64f7$d72e51e0$0600a8c0@main>
From: "Dave" 
To: "LF Group" 
Subject: LF: S57A
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 16:43:37 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Dear all

I just heard I5MXX working S57A. No sign of S57A here and Marzio only gave
him 519...

73, Dave G3YXM



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 4435 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2000 19:58:29 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jan 2000 19:58:29 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12C6YM-0007DN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:50:34 +0000
Received: from xyber.irisz.hu ([212.92.1.142] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12C6YK-0007DI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:50:33 +0000
Received: from xyber.irisz.hu (IDENT:ivan@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xyber.irisz.hu (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA03854 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:50:22 GMT
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <388A09FC.68A6A71B@irisz.hu>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:50:20 +0000
From: "Ivan Artner" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: IMC
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i486)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: OM2TW
References: <01de01bf64f7$d72e51e0$0600a8c0@main>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hi all,

just heard 19:49z OM2TW CQ on 136.8kHz

good sigs!!

73 de Ivan HA5TS


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 20014 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2000 00:35:12 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jan 2000 00:35:12 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CAu3-0000Ky-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:29:15 +0000
Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.de ([194.25.134.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CAu1-0000Kn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:29:13 +0000
Received: from fwd05.sul.t-online.de  by mailout06.sul.t-online.de with smtp  id 12CAtw-0002u0-00; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 01:29:08 +0100
Received: from  (087321565-0001@[193.158.172.229]) by fwd05.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 12CAtp-0vGqXZC; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 01:29:01 +0100
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
References: <38856E64.9E096059@phonakcom.ch>
Subject: Re: LF: Resonance and Impedance change in the winter season
X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 01:29:01 +0100
Message-ID: <12CAtp-0vGqXZC@fwd05.sul.t-online.de>
X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-dialin.net
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Toni Baertschi schrieb:
> >From HB9ASB, JN36pt
>

> PS. Actually it is very cold here and my antenna de-tunes from hour to
> hour as the soil is freezing deeper and deeper. Not only the resonance
> goes higher, the impedance is also changing and it is difficult to
> follow this developement with the existing matching circuit.

Now, during winter time I can make the same observations. Before I have just 
experienced small changes in resonance, but now, in the cold, not only resonance 
changes considerably but also VSWR increases to S = 2 at optimum tune (I am 
using a 50 ohms feeder cable between PA and LF antenna). Therefore I also have 
to revise my fine tuning and matching circuitry to cope with these effects.

73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 15814 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2000 00:37:23 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jan 2000 00:37:23 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CAu2-0000Kw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:29:14 +0000
Received: from mailout04.sul.t-online.de ([194.25.134.18]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CAu0-0000Km-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:29:12 +0000
Received: from fwd05.sul.t-online.de  by mailout04.sul.t-online.de with smtp  id 12CAtw-0005ZE-00; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 01:29:08 +0100
Received: from  (087321565-0001@[193.158.172.229]) by fwd05.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 12CAto-0vGqXYC; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 01:29:00 +0100
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
References: <3.0.1.16.20000118113957.2ecf9476@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be>
Subject: Re: LF: Slovenian station heard ?
X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 01:29:00 +0100
Message-ID: <12CAto-0vGqXYC@fwd05.sul.t-online.de>
X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-dialin.net
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hi all,

on the IARU Region I conference at Lillehammer, Norway, I met S53BH, honorary 
president of the slowenian amateur radio society. He was interested in LF, and I 
have sent him some literature and made him aware of this server. Therefore it 
could be that the signs which Rik heard were the first results of these 
activities in S53. 

Therefore, especially in OE and in my region (south-east of Germany), we should 
be more alert to see what will develop in the near future.

73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB, QTH JN68GN.
  

Rik Strobbe schrieb:
> Last night I could hear a very weak station calling IK5ZPV, The station was
> only 229 here (rather high QRN) and I got the call only partionally as S53?.
> It happened arround 22UT and on 136.600.
>
> 73, Rik  ON7YD
>
>



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 835 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2000 10:06:38 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jan 2000 10:06:38 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CJmO-0003cm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:57:56 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CJmL-0003ch-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:57:54 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from dennison.demon.co.uk ([194.222.239.33]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12CJmH-000Duq-0W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:57:50 +0000
Message-ID: <2k0dkBAYBti4Ew9g@dennison.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:56:40 +0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Mike Dennison" 
Subject: Re: LF: Nags Head
In-reply-to: <004901bf64ec$e6b2cc00$db2901d5@dave>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

>>From Dave G3YMC
>I looked at the information and pictures on the Amrad site of the recent
>Nag's Head Dx-pedition today, which I found interesting.  I note however
>there is no mention of either the DCF39 signal (138.8) or CFH, the latter at
>least I would have expected to be audible there.  Mike G3XDV mentioned this
>week that reception of DCF39 must be a good indicator of a possible DX path
>to Europe.  However identification of this signal may be the problem as it
>is a continuous carrier with periodic bursts of data, and as such would
>appear as a solid line on a DSP display.
>

Yes, but until DCF39 is detected by ear, there is no chance of amateurs
70dB below it getting through, even using slow CW. I, too, was
disappointed that DCF wasn't mentioned. It would be interesting to see a
Spectrogram of the bands 135-137kHz and 137-139kHz using SSB bandwidths
on both the Rx and the DSP. In that bandwidth, Spectrogram will easily
show the modulation bursts.
-- 
Mike, G3XDV
IO91VT
http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 20956 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2000 12:34:48 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jan 2000 12:34:48 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CM7m-0004V4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:28:10 +0000
Received: from smtp-rt-2.wanadoo.fr ([193.252.19.154] helo=apeiba.wanadoo.fr) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CM7k-0004Uz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:28:08 +0000
Received: from mahonia.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.58) by apeiba.wanadoo.fr; 23 Jan 2000 13:28:03 +0100
Received: from pii-350 (164.138.207.169) by mahonia.wanadoo.fr; 23 Jan 2000 13:27:51 +0100
Message-ID: <008a01bf659d$458b6f60$a9cf8aa4@pii-350>
From: "f1tay" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: LF RUSSIAN BROADCASTING NEWS
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 11:39:21 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit











Information resumes the French-speaking 
distribution list on the news on radiodiffussion in longs, mediums and shorts 
waves: Radio Globe.
Address to subscribe:



 


Hello,


 


The transmitter Russians of Radio 1 on 171 & 
234 kHz have ceased their emissions
3 December 99. However this program is 
always relayed by the station
Sasnovy in Biélorussie on 171kHz of 0400 
to 2100 in parallel with
the transmitter average wave on 1305 kHz situated to 
Moscow.


 


(Source : Mikhail Timofeyev, Saint - 
Petersbourg)


 



Information reprise de la liste de diffusion 
francophone sur la radiodiffussion en ondes longues, moyenne et courtes. Nom de 
la liste: Radio Globe
Adresse pour s'abonner:



 


Bonjour,


 


Les émetteurs russes de Radio 1 sur 171 
et 234 kHz ont cessé leurs émissions
le 3 décembre 99. 
Cependant ce programme est toujours relayé par la station
de Sasnovy 
en Biélorussie sur 171 kHz de 0400 à 2100 en parallèle 
avec
l'émetteur onde moyennes sur 1305 kHz situé à 
Moscou.


 


(Source : Mikhail Timofeyev, 
Saint-Petersbourg)


 


        

73 de Daniel F1TAY   


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 5216 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2000 17:08:07 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jan 2000 17:08:07 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CQPl-0006AY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:03:01 +0000
Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CQPj-0006AT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:02:59 +0000
Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.53) with SMTP id 01298892 for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 18:02:30 +0100 (MET)
Message-ID: <388B3427.CFB567B6@phonakcom.ch>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 18:02:31 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Toni_B=E4rtschi?= 
Organization: Phonak Communications AG
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [de] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: de,en-US,en-GB,fr-FR
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Resonance and Impedance change in the winter season
References: <38856E64.9E096059@phonakcom.ch> <12CAtp-0vGqXZC@fwd05.sul.t-online.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Loop-Detect: 1
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Here I'm using now an LF match box in the shack, so it's no longer
necessary to go outside for fine tuning.
It's a PI-configuration with parallel C's at the in and output, they can
be switched in 5nF steps up to 50nF. The serial Inductor is a 28uH
roller type and I can switch-in additional L up to 150uH if needed. 
Now I can leave my base coil in a standard configuration and adjust to a
1:1 SWR (my TX likes it) with the PI-filter. Very nice, especially at
night, when it is snowing outside, hi.

An interesting detail: The russian door-knob condensers I bought in
Friedrichshafen were all dead, but I was lucky and found a box of large
american mica condensers I had put away some 20 years ago - still the
better stuff, hi.

73 de Toni, HB2ASB

Hans-Joachim Brandt schrieb:
> 
> Toni Baertschi schrieb:
> > >From HB9ASB, JN36pt
> >
> 
> > PS. Actually it is very cold here and my antenna de-tunes from hour to
> > hour as the soil is freezing deeper and deeper. Not only the resonance
> > goes higher, the impedance is also changing and it is difficult to
> > follow this developement with the existing matching circuit.
> 
> Now, during winter time I can make the same observations. Before I have just
> experienced small changes in resonance, but now, in the cold, not only resonance
> changes considerably but also VSWR increases to S = 2 at optimum tune (I am
> using a 50 ohms feeder cable between PA and LF antenna). Therefore I also have
> to revise my fine tuning and matching circuitry to cope with these effects.
> 
> 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB
> 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 29054 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2000 19:29:16 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jan 2000 19:29:16 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CSYC-00071Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:19:52 +0000
Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.de ([194.25.134.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CSYB-00071L-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:19:51 +0000
Received: from fwd01.sul.t-online.de  by mailout02.sul.t-online.de with smtp  id 12CSY7-00016I-00; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:19:47 +0100
Received: from  (087321565-0001@[62.158.198.117]) by fwd01.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 12CSXt-1KQGtVC; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:19:33 +0100
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
References: <000201bf643a$c5701140$29c2883e@lvm>
Subject: Re: LF: Re.Ground Loss
X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:19:33 +0100
Message-ID: <12CSXt-1KQGtVC@fwd01.sul.t-online.de>
X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-dialin.net
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Dear Lawrence,

remembering the few results on ground resistance measurements published on this 
server I would regard your 120 ohms somewhat above average for 136 kHz. My own 
value is in the order of 80 ohms when using the house ground, and also when 
using an insulated radial system consisting of 28 wires of 10 m to 30 m in 
length, depending on the space in the relevant direction. Someone who had used 
his 160 meters ground system with several long buried radials also for LF had 
reported a value of 50 ohms at 136 kHz.

I have just heard of two reports of house grounds of about 25 ohms; in this 
cases a tube 12 meters deep into the ground is employed, or an extended wire 
ground system also deep in the ground.

Paralleling different grounds may be a special problem. Direct paralleling often 
results in an INCREASE in ground resistance. Therefore some stations use link or 
transformer coupling between feeder cable (connected to the house ground) and 
the antenna ground, to avoid the bad effect of direct paralleling. 

But if both ground systems are tuned against each other the resulting resistance 
may be the same as one ground system alone, or luckily somewhat lower, but never 
the value that is expected due to the paralleling of two resistances.

>>From next spring onward I will do further experiments with bare radials buried 

flat into the ground, before settling on a final solution.

73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB 


LAWRENCE MAYHEAD schrieb:
> I have just measured my TX ant impedance(R term) and it is 120 ohm! much
>  higher than I originally thought.It is of course all ground loss,I am using
>  3 ground rods close to the TX and the house water/mains system.I wonder
>  wether anyone can  offer me comparitive figs for impedance and details of
>  ground systems?
> To improve I will have to put in an awful lot of radials! or consider
>  counterpoises.
> 73s Laurie.
>



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 3224 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2000 19:51:45 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jan 2000 19:51:45 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CSo9-00073F-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:36:21 +0000
Received: from rmx09.iname.net ([165.251.8.95] helo=rmx09.globecomm.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CSo8-00073A-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:36:20 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from weba1.iname.net  by rmx09.globecomm.net (8.9.1/8.8.0) with ESMTP id OAA24835 ; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:36:15 -0500 (EST)
From: reino.multanen@writeme.com
Received: (from root@localhost) by weba1.iname.net (8.9.1a/8.9.2.Alpha2) id OAA00122; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:36:14 -0500 (EST)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <0001231436144U.19750@weba1.iname.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:36:14 -0500 (EST)
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: oh7ol
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Greetings from Joensuu, North Karelia.  WX was today cool and clear, minus 20 C. 
  - I have worked only two on LF, OH1TN and OH3LYG, but heard DF6FM, G3KEV, MM0ALM, OZ8NJ, SM4DHN and SM6PXJ.
  - My rx is home made, with VXO and 9 MHz/500 Hz xtal filter.
  - tx: 4060/osc+div, IRF630/bfr, 4x IRF 630/push-pull PA, out 100 watts, in 24 V DC.
  - ant: poor, miscellaneous wires thrown to trees.
  - I use 5-el low-pass filter in antenna line both in
transmitting and receiving.
  - my ex-calls are OH8OI (1950) and OH9OI, now OH7OL.
                                  73 de Repe 

----------------------------------------------------------------
Get your free email from AltaVista at http://altavista.iname.com


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 16840 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2000 20:09:41 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jan 2000 20:09:41 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CTCF-0007FB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:01:15 +0000
Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl ([195.121.6.60]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CTCE-0007F6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:01:14 +0000
Received: from nl9222tvtref.nl ([195.121.216.221]) by smtp02.wxs.nl         (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61)  with ESMTP id AAA75         for ;         Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:01:03 +0100
From: "Ko Versteeg" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: spectran beta 2c
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:57:44 +0100
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Priority: 3
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Message-ID: <7735C42067.AAA75@smtp02.wxs.nl>
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 


Hi All,
A new version of Spectran is available
from:
 http://members.xoom.com/spectran/

Ko, NL9222.

JO22KF    52°13'45 N   04°52'30 E



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 6477 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2000 00:18:02 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jan 2000 00:18:02 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CX5r-0000Fs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:10:55 +0000
Received: from tantalum.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.80]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CX5q-0000Fn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:10:54 +0000
Received: from [213.1.128.213] (helo=default) by tantalum.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12CX5b-0006gh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:10:40 +0000
Message-ID: <000f01bf65fe$eebfa9a0$d58001d5@default>
From: "Alan Melia" 
To: "rsgb_lf_group" 
Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots 22/23 Jan from GB7DXM
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:06:05 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

   137.3  G3YXM       23-Jan-2000 1000Z  559

   136.9  DF8ZR       23-Jan-2000 0952Z  439

   136.2  HB2ASB      23-Jan-2000 0946Z  579

   136.8  IK5ZPV      23-Jan-2000 0940Z  539

   136.3  G3KEV       22-Jan-2000 1417Z  449

   136.7  ON6ND       22-Jan-2000 1146Z  539

   136.4  DJ9IE       22-Jan-2000 1059Z  cq 549

   136.6  OH3LYG      19-Jan-2000 2157Z  579 hr, calling ik5zpv

   136.7  IK5ZPV      19-Jan-2000 1837Z  339

   136.4  G3KEV       19-Jan-2000 1829Z  539

   136.4  HB2ASB      18-Jan-2000 1854Z  579

   136.7  HB9DCE      18-Jan-2000 1843Z  579

   136.8  DJ9IE       17-Jan-2000 1658Z  559 cq

   136.9  OE5ODL      16-Jan-2000 1930Z  559 cq

   137.1  OE5ODL      16-Jan-2000 1939Z  calling cq

   136.5  DJ9IE       16-Jan-2000 1940Z  579 here

   136.8  OE5ODL      16-Jan-2000 1930Z  559 cq

   136.7  OE5ODX      16-Jan-2000 1933Z  calling cq

   136.6  DJ6FU       16-Jan-2000 1657Z  449

   136.7  I5MXX       16-Jan-2000 1120Z  449

G3NYK de GB7DXM   23-Jan 2348Z >
  1800.0  PA0LEG      22-Jan-2000 0854Z  136.5 cq

  1800.0  PA0LEG      22-Jan-2000 0801Z  136.5 cq oh oz hb oe ????

  1800.0  PA0LEG      22-Jan-2000 0759Z  cq oh oz hb???

  1800.0  W4ZV        21-Jan-2000 1200Z  congrats bill

  1800.0  AA1K        20-Jan-2000 1229Z  close jon he kept ?? when you

  1800.0  W8JI        16-Jan-2000 0320Z  Give em hell Tom!

  1800.0  G3YXM       16-Jan-2000 0015Z  QRS Beacom 137.78 kHz

  1800.0  G3XTZ       16-Jan-2000 0014Z  QRS Beacon 137.78kHz

  1800.0  S57A        15-Jan-2000 1647Z  on 137.2

  1800.0  HB9ASB      14-Jan-2000 1929Z  are u on any cluster?

  1800.0  XZ0A        13-Jan-2000 1219Z  LF Ants not up yet !

  1800.0  DL1SAN      12-Jan-2000 1647Z  pse loc dj9ie and urs

  1800.0  DXSTNS      12-Jan-2000 0429Z   pls use both calls on band

  1800.0  UN5A        11-Jan-2000 2215Z  cq cq.... look for and
find -
  1800.0  DJ9IE       11-Jan-2000 1822Z     137Khz

  1800.0  EU          11-Jan-2000 1649Z  eu bc 5/5 160-190 khz

  1800.0  9M2AX       10-Jan-2000 2319Z  not for little pistels if in

  1800.0  ON6ND       10-Jan-2000 1902Z  136.5

  1800.0  DL1SAN      10-Jan-2000 1654Z  <-->qrb to dj9ie ????

  1800.0  DK8KW        8-Jan-2000 1026Z       137 Khz Good sigs

G3NYK de GB7DXM   23-Jan 2352Z >

73 de Alan G3NYK JO02PB
Alan.Melia@btinternet.com






From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 1147 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2000 02:56:26 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jan 2000 02:56:26 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CZZC-00017I-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:49:22 +0000
Received: from m11.boston.juno.com ([205.231.100.194]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CZZB-00017D-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:49:21 +0000
Received: "yokUgcxCbtTP7XLrpefewB5vbFOx+6eE0LEvFTEAp3rMjDfMCOa5Dw=="
Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EW3LUG72; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:48:53 EST
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:47:35 -0500
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Subject: Re: LF: Nags Head
Message-ID: <20000123.214736.-96013.1.riese-k3djc@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-6,8-34
X-Juno-Att: 0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
From: "Bob RIESE" 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

using spectran I do see at the correct frequency a carrier that has some
kind of data on it. Small packets of something that appear as a narrow
blur. Will recheck in daytime to see if it is local. Time here is 0230
GMT

Bob K3DJC  York Pensylvania

On Sat, 22 Jan 2000 14:17:33 -0000 "Dave Sergeant"
 writes:
>>From Dave G3YMC
>
>I looked at the information and pictures on the Amrad site of the 
>recent
>Nag's Head Dx-pedition today, which I found interesting.  I note 
>however
>there is no mention of either the DCF39 signal (138.8) or CFH, the 
>latter at
>least I would have expected to be audible there.  Mike G3XDV mentioned 
>this
>week that reception of DCF39 must be a good indicator of a possible DX 
>path
>to Europe.  However identification of this signal may be the problem 
>as it
>is a continuous carrier with periodic bursts of data, and as such 
>would
>appear as a solid line on a DSP display.
>
>73s Dave G3YMC
>dsergeant@iee.org
>http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd
>
>
>
>
>


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 2428 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2000 08:40:53 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jan 2000 08:40:53 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Cetc-0003AJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:30:48 +0000
Received: from hermes.iol.cz ([194.228.2.36]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ceta-0003AE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:30:46 +0000
Received: from dell1.GMC.NET ([194.228.133.58]) by hermes.iol.cz         (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223         ID# 631-64078U55000L55000S0V35) with ESMTP id cz         for ;         Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:30:00 +0100
Received: from p (P.MALY [192.168.1.35]) by dell1.GMC.NET with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id DRZNNTTD; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:30:26 +0100
Message-ID: <005e01bf6645$43cdca80$2301a8c0@maly.gmc.net>
From: "Petr Maly" 
To: "136 group" 
Subject: LF: OM2TW
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:30:10 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hello all
We tried with Riso, OM2TW to make QSO during saturday. I heard him 569, but
I had no chance with my city antenna and 20W RF. I heard from him that he
has made the only one QSO, CW QSO with HB9DCE on saturday morning.

I hope spring comes soon to be able to be QRV again from the cottage.

73! Petr, OK1FIG







From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 12383 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2000 11:33:49 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jan 2000 11:33:49 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ChdA-0004Jp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:26:00 +0000
Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Chd8-0004Jf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:25:59 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id GAA15475; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 06:35:05 -0500 (EST)
Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (8.9.0/) id GAA25399; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 06:24:45 -0500 (EST)
Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by umrsvr.hsd.utc.com; (8.9.0/) id GAA32670; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 06:21:48 -0500 (EST)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:18:12 +0100
Message-ID: 
From: "Soegiono, Gamal" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: update on 'reeiving on 137 kHz'
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:18:11 +0100
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 
Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

Dear LF friends,

few details to add to my last message:

ADC is actually a 18 bit resolution (Burr-Brown)
DSP uses 16 bit for calculation
DSP-1 determines the final IF BW and demodulates
DSP-2 does noise-reduction and notch filtering

To Dave Brown:

The receiver has one discrete attenuator of 40 dB
which is switched into the signal path as soon as
the input level reaches or exceeds +10dBm (10mW 
into 50 Ohms), and while the receiver is switched OFF.

The mentioned -102dBm level was measured
with 50 Hz bandwidth.


Best 73 de Gamal Soegiono

soegiono@nm.hsd.utc.com
or
soegiono@nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com







From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 5230 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2000 15:28:09 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jan 2000 15:28:09 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ClHH-0005qb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:19:39 +0000
Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.157]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ClHG-0005qW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:19:38 +0000
Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-111-92.bellatlantic.net [151.200.111.92]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA03182; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:19:23 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <388C6DE2.68F1D7AE@bellatlantic.net>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:21:06 -0500
From: "Andre' Kesteloot" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47  (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Cc: "David L. Wilson AC4IU" , 
 "lf-amrad" 
Subject: LF: DCF39 heard in the US
References: <2k0dkBAYBti4Ew9g@dennison.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Mike Dennison wrote:

> Yes, but until DCF39 is detected by ear, there is no chance of amateurs
> 70dB below it getting through, even using slow CW.

Dave Wilson, AC4IU, who lives near Fredericksburg, south of Washington DC,
reports to have seen DFC39, but rarely, and adds that he is not sure what
determines when he can hear that station of not.
It should be noted that Fredericksburg is well inland, far from the ocean.

The reason DCF39 was not mentioned in the Nags Head reports is that, sadly, we
did not look for it. Our mistake, but we were concentrating on the narrow band
between 137.600 and 137.900 where the 4 British amateur stations were located.
73
Andre' N4ICK



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 25622 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2000 17:05:07 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jan 2000 17:05:07 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CmnA-0006Sk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:56:40 +0000
Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Cmn7-0006Sf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:56:37 +0000
Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12CmkZ-000018-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:53:59 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <12183.200001241700@gemini>
From: "James Moritz" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: University of Hertfordshire
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:01:21 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: LF: HF automatic antenna tuners
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11)
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Dear LF Group,

HF Automatic Antenna Tuners

Nothing to do with LF I know - but several members of the LF group 
are clearly involved in RF engineering, so I thought I would ask. 
Otherwise, please ignore this message, and my apologies for 
cluttering up your computer!

I am currently doing some research into automatic antenna tuners - 
the first need I have is to find out about the current state of the art 
of automatic ATU design - particularly matching network design, RF 
switching & tuning devices, and tuning algorithms. I have not been 
able to uncover much on the subject from the technical journals & 
magazines - the articles I have are over 10 years old. Relatively 
few people seem to be interested in actual radio hardware at the 
moment, all the trade press seems to be full of network routers and 
message handling protocols. Therefore, I would be extremely 
grateful for any current information, or references where I might 
find such.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 15342 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2000 17:40:29 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jan 2000 17:40:29 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CnDf-0006fY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:24:03 +0000
Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CnDe-0006fT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:24:02 +0000
Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12CnDm-0004Fb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:24:11 +0000
Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:19:35 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
From: "Mike Dennison" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:19:32 -0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: Re: LF: DCF39 heard in the US
In-reply-to: <388C6DE2.68F1D7AE@bellatlantic.net>
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11)
X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq
Message-ID: 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

> Dave Wilson, AC4IU, who lives near Fredericksburg, south of Washington DC,
> reports to have seen DFC39, but rarely, and adds that he is not sure what
> determines when he can hear that station of not. It should be noted that
> Fredericksburg is well inland, far from the ocean.
> 

Excellent. I feel that concentrating on this high ERP station will 
provide a useful pattern. Once fixed stations can receive it with 
some reliability (or at least predictability), preferably by ear, then 
there is a good chance that a coastal portable expedition can detect 
amateurs. It also gives something to work with, that is to measure 
improvements in propagation and receiver/antenna performance. 
When you hear nothing, you can't tell if you need another 3dB or 
300!

> The reason DCF39 was not mentioned in the Nags Head reports is that,
> sadly, we did not look for it. Our mistake, but we were concentrating on
> the narrow band between 137.600 and 137.900 where the 4 British amateur
> stations were located. 73 Andre' N4ICK
> 

Quite understood. Portable expeditions are by no means trivial and 
you have to set your agenda in advance and concentrate on that. If 
you had detected the amateur signals, that would have been 
marvelous, but it looks like you need to set your sights a little lower 
in order to determine just how far you are from succeeding. The bad 
news is that conditions were exceptionally good that weekend as 
CFH was strong well into daylight in the UK.

I am quite sure, however, that you learned useful lessons for next 
time. With my LF portable expeditions to GW, I have got better and 
better because each time I came away with a long list of things I 
knew I had done wrong - it's true about learning from your mistakes. 
An expedition only fails if you can't think of anything you would do 
better next time.

It's pretty frustrating for us in Europe as we feel we would like to just 
pop over with our own gear and hear for ourselves what the band is 
like, as we might with a listening station a few hundred km away. 
Perhaps you can put a few .WAV files onto the AMRAD website 
after your next expedition so that we can hear and also analyse the 
receiver output. It might help us to help you.

Anyway, your efforts are very much appreciated and we all look 
forward to the day when the US (and Canada) has an LF allocation 
in the licence. Then we can be the ones desperately looking in vain 
at the noise on a DSP screen!

73


Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT)
http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 4725 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2000 17:41:26 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jan 2000 17:41:26 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CnGX-0006g6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:27:01 +0000
Received: from as-img-6.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.151] helo=spamgaaf.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CnGW-0006g1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:27:00 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaaf.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id MAA04380 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:26:46 -0500 (EST)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:25:22 -0500
From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Subject: LF: DCF39 heard in the US
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Message-ID: <200001241225_MC2-9612-2923@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Disposition: inline
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hello To-Be Trans Atlantic Crossers,

being the closest ham LF station to DCF39 I feel somehow responsible for it
as it is only 120 km away...  ;-)

I have made a one-minute recording on how DCF39 sounds and can send this as
a .WAV (1.2 MB) or .MP3 file (116 kB) to anyone who would like to have it.
It might help to better identify the signal.

Best 73

Geri, DK8KW (W1KW)  
http://www.qru.de


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 11886 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2000 18:05:04 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jan 2000 18:05:04 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CnkP-0006sN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:57:53 +0000
Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CnkN-0006sI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:57:52 +0000
Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-114-170.bellatlantic.net [151.200.114.170]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA22455; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:57:40 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <388C92FA.F8B0E4DD@bellatlantic.net>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:59:22 -0500
From: "Andre' Kesteloot" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47  (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Cc: "lf-amrad" 
Subject: Re: LF: DCF39 heard in the US
References: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Thanks, Mike for your kind words of encouragement.  A comment, though:

Mike Dennison wrote:

> Excellent. I feel that concentrating on this high ERP station will
> provide a useful pattern.

DCF is an inland station, fairly far away from the ocean coast, with an unknown
(unknown to me, at least) antenna radiation launching angle.  The fact that it
can be heard throughout Europe (probably ground wave) does not necessarily mean
(to me) that it will cross the pond via multiple hops. We did hear France-Inter
(on 162) and Europe #1 as if they were local broadcast stations. France Inter
runs 2 MW, I understand. Has anyone yet established a comparison between those 2
MW with a 9 KHz bandwidth and  DCF's power with its bandwidth ?
73
Andre'



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 14362 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2000 18:26:08 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jan 2000 18:26:08 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CnxO-000706-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:11:18 +0000
Received: from panchito.austria.eu.net ([193.154.160.103]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CnxN-000701-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:11:17 +0000
Received: from qsl.net (dialup158.ap02-ried.at.eu.net [193.154.148.158]) by panchito.Austria.EU.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17812 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:11:08 +0100 (MET)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <388C957A.6BC34B6A@qsl.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:10:03 +0100
From: "Heinz Schnait" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-NECCK  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: de, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: OM2TW
References: <005e01bf6645$43cdca80$2301a8c0@maly.gmc.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hello all,

OM2TW has been heared by OE5ODL with a receiving loop antenna. Our "big
one" will be up by next weekend. Hope to work you then!

73 Heinz



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 17587 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2000 19:31:42 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jan 2000 19:31:42 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Cp6K-0007VK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:24:36 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Cp6J-0007VF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:24:35 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from dennison.demon.co.uk ([194.222.239.33]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12Cp6F-0004WG-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:24:31 +0000
Message-ID: 
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:23:18 +0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Mike Dennison" 
Subject: Re: LF: DCF39 heard in the US
In-reply-to: <388C92FA.F8B0E4DD@bellatlantic.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

>
>DCF is an inland station, fairly far away from the ocean coast, with an unknown
>(unknown to me, at least) antenna radiation launching angle.  The fact that it
>can be heard throughout Europe (probably ground wave) does not necessarily mean
>(to me) that it will cross the pond via multiple hops. We did hear France-Inter
>(on 162) and Europe #1 as if they were local broadcast stations. France Inter
>runs 2 MW, I understand. Has anyone yet established a comparison between those 2
>MW with a 9 KHz bandwidth and  DCF's power with its bandwidth ?
>73
>Andre'
>

OK, but DCF has been heard strongly at 2000km, and arguably a station
with a good ground wave will produce a good low angle sky wave. I was
really saying that, since DCF39 is almost in-band and can be identified
in CW bandwidths it probably provides the best starting point for small
(miniscule) signal working at 136.


-- 
Mike, G3XDV
IO91VT
http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 6244 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2000 19:34:37 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jan 2000 19:34:37 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Cp90-0007Vg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:27:22 +0000
Received: from ds-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.138] helo=spdmgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Cp8z-0007VY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:27:21 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id OAA04841 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:26:46 -0500 (EST)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:22:41 -0500
From: "Howard Aspinall" <100646.144@compuserve.com>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Subject: LF: HF automatic antenna tuners
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Message-ID: <200001241426_MC2-960B-94A@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Disposition: inline
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Jim

I have here two Racal professional automatic hf aerial matching units..1
kw...1.6-30 Mhz, plus docs.

They are quite old by now, though I suspect technology in this area hasn't
advanced much over the past few years

If you wish I can put you in touch with the person who supplied me, who
knows about them and services them, and who might have further info for
you. He is a licensed radio amateur working as an engineer for NTL.
Although he has a stock of these and his main objecive is to sell them, I'm
pretty sure, he'd be glad to chat with you.

73..Howard G3RXH


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 10312 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2000 19:46:00 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jan 2000 19:46:00 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CpJF-0007ax-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:37:57 +0000
Received: from smtp-rt-4.wanadoo.fr ([193.252.19.156] helo=areca.wanadoo.fr) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CpJB-0007aN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:37:56 +0000
Received: from andira.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.152) by areca.wanadoo.fr; 24 Jan 2000 20:37:42 +0100
Received: from pii-350 (164.138.206.114) by andira.wanadoo.fr; 24 Jan 2000 20:37:06 +0100
Message-ID: <006e01bf66a2$655ea5e0$72ce8aa4@pii-350>
From: "f1tay" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Cc: "lf-amrad" 
Subject: Re: LF: DCF39 heard in the US
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:23:25 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Photos on the transmitter, antenna and feeder of radio broadcasting EUROPE 1
on the french-speaking site:
http://services.worldnet.net/~tvignaud/

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Andre' Kesteloot 
Ŕ : rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org 
Cc : lf-amrad 
Date : lundi 24 janvier 2000 18:31
Objet : Re: LF: DCF39 heard in the US


>Thanks, Mike for your kind words of encouragement.  A comment, though:
>
>Mike Dennison wrote:
>
>> Excellent. I feel that concentrating on this high ERP station will
>> provide a useful pattern.
>
>DCF is an inland station, fairly far away from the ocean coast, with an
unknown
>(unknown to me, at least) antenna radiation launching angle.  The fact that
it
>can be heard throughout Europe (probably ground wave) does not necessarily
mean
>(to me) that it will cross the pond via multiple hops. We did hear
France-Inter
>(on 162) and Europe #1 as if they were local broadcast stations. France
Inter
>runs 2 MW, I understand. Has anyone yet established a comparison between
those 2
>MW with a 9 KHz bandwidth and  DCF's power with its bandwidth ?
>73
>Andre'
>
>
>



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 10103 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2000 22:36:27 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jan 2000 22:36:27 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Crwo-00008m-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:26:58 +0000
Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Crwn-00008a-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:26:57 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id l.be.baa9ea (3976) for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:26:04 -0500 (EST)
From: WarmSpgs@aol.com
Message-ID: 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:26:04 EST
Subject: Re: LF: DCF39 heard in the US
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 70
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hello Geri,

It would be most interesting to hear your .wav recording of the DCF39 signal. 
 In fact, if you'd be willing to send both files, I'd be glad to post them on 
the LWCA Web site for everyone who might be interested.

73,
John KD4IDY


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 7763 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2000 00:08:04 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jan 2000 00:08:04 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CtOp-0000kG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:59:59 +0000
Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12CtOo-0000kB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:59:58 +0000
Received: from rgcomms.demon.co.uk ([193.237.77.63] helo=G) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 12CtOk-000JuN-0K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:59:54 +0000
From: "Graham Phillips" 
To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group" 
Subject: LF: Narrow Bandwidth reception
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:58:10 -0000
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hi all LF'ers.

I would like to know other users experiences using the Spectrogram programs.
I have frequently found that I am only able to detect the weakest stations
using a sample rate of 5.5k with a FFT size of 16384. This gives an
on-screen bandwidth of 86 Hz. If I attempt to see more of the band, either
by increasing the sample rate, or decreasing the FFT size, I am unable to
detect the signal that I know is there.  This seems fairly obvious, in that
decreasing bandwidth should improve signal to noise, but I wonder if all
users have the same results?

73 de Graham B. Phillips.  G3XTZ.



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 20287 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2000 08:55:56 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jan 2000 08:55:56 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12D1YO-00042v-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 08:42:24 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12D1YN-00042o-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 08:42:23 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from dennison.demon.co.uk ([194.222.239.33]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 12D1YI-000HIq-0K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 08:42:18 +0000
Message-ID: 
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 08:40:53 +0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Mike Dennison" 
Subject: Re: LF: Narrow Bandwidth reception
In-reply-to: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

>I would like to know other users experiences using the Spectrogram programs.
>I have frequently found that I am only able to detect the weakest stations
>using a sample rate of 5.5k with a FFT size of 16384. This gives an
>on-screen bandwidth of 86 Hz. If I attempt to see more of the band, either
>by increasing the sample rate, or decreasing the FFT size, I am unable to
>detect the signal that I know is there.  This seems fairly obvious, in that
>decreasing bandwidth should improve signal to noise, but I wonder if all
>users have the same results?
>73 de Graham B. Phillips.  G3XTZ.

This is exactly my experience which, as you say, is what theory
suggests. I am sometimes surprised to see spectrograms with wider
bandwidths (though I understand some people have computer problems with
the higher sample rate). Another very important control is the averaging
which must be set to the highest that will allow you to see dots
properly - note that this will vary with dot length. Spectrogram 5.09
calls this Spectrum Average and is best set at just above the dot length
(I set it at 4). Earlier versions needed a much bigger figure - say 10
times the dot length. This makes a huge difference to the S/N and
especially the rejection of burst interference such as QRN. Note that if
this control is set correctly, the full advantages of the ON7YD VCW
system are realised because the dots can be longer for the same duration
of message.
-- 
Mike, G3XDV
IO91VT
http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 14039 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2000 11:48:32 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jan 2000 11:48:32 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12D49l-0005Ad-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:29:09 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from server.italway.it ([193.70.27.5] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12D49k-0005AY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:29:08 +0000
X-Priority: 3
Received: from allstars (access12.italway.it [193.70.27.111]) by server.italway.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA21066 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:23:44 +0100
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20000125123313.0069bd5c@mail.italway.it>
X-Sender: i5mxx@mail.italway.it (Unverified)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) [I]
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:33:13 +0100
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "i5mxx - Marzio" 
Subject: LF: LF activity
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hello LF Guys!

These are my last qsos in LF:
21 Jan OZ8NJ 569
       G3KEV 549
22 Jan S57A 519
23 Jan OH3LYG 529
       G3YXM 539

Heard but not called: HB2ASB, MM0ALM, DJ9IE.

Heard also on 23 Jan OM2TW for less than 1 minutes, than signal dropped
again in noise; i was not able to make the qso.

73 de Marzio I5MXX 



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 20465 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2000 12:35:13 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jan 2000 12:35:13 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12D53x-0005b4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:27:13 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from ns1.swh.sk ([192.108.125.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12D53u-0005ax-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:27:12 +0000
Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes [195.41.64.129]) by ns1.swh.sk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA27902 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:27:00 +0100
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [195.41.64.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA19998 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:26:56 +0100 (MET)
Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:26:54 +0100
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Message-ID: <92CA25F78271D111969400A024297F5B02CA3F21@btss.swh.sk>
From: "Gasparik Richard" 
To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" 
Subject: LF: 22.1./23.1.2000 report
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:26:53 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hi LF gang...

I was QRV last weekend for the first time and I made only 1 QSO with HB9DCE.
Station heard:	I5MXX (599)	MP3 file is on http://www.qsl.net/om2tw
		IK5ZPV (599)	MP3 file is on http://www.qsl.net/om2tw
		MM0ALM (579)
		OH3LYG (589)

See you in two weeks 5./6.2.2000 with more power.

Rich OM2TW


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 20207 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2000 14:49:12 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jan 2000 14:49:12 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12D74X-0006TA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:35:57 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12D74V-0006P1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:35:55 +0000
X-Priority: 3
Received: from t2550 (userac91.uk.uudial.com [62.188.131.35]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10478 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:27:32 GMT
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000125142631.00966560@mailhost.pncl.co.uk>
X-Sender: blanch@mailhost.pncl.co.uk (Unverified)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:34:35 +0000
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Walter Blanchard" 
Subject: LF: Transatlantic
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Might I suggest that North American listeners would get a better indication 
of conditions if they would listen for the Datatrak transmitters on 133-134 
kHz? They only radiate 10 watts from 100 ft verticals and are very 
distinctive aurally or on Spectrogram.  Much nearer to what we do!
Of course, if you can't hear DCF39 then you certainly won't hear these!
Walter G3JKV




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 3985 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2000 15:50:58 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jan 2000 15:50:58 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12D84K-0006si-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:39:48 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.53] helo=pefletti.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12D84I-0006sd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:39:47 +0000
X-Priority: 3
Received: from default (MMDLXXIX.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.44.179]) by pefletti.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA14196 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:39:32 +0200 (EET)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000125174003.008ed290@laatikko.saunalahti.fi>
X-Sender: vaiski1@laatikko.saunalahti.fi
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:40:03 +0200
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= 
Subject: LF: Decca signal strength in OH2
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

PLEASE, delete my earlier message of 25 Jan 2000 1330 UTC.
        Due to "editorial mistake" many FIGURES WERE WRONG
        I apologize...

Now that all Scandinavian Decca's are qrt, I have
test measured (GREEN frequency) levels of UK Decca's :
--------------------------------------------------------
Day ----------------   20Jan  21Jan  22Jan  23Jan  24Jan
Time,UTC -----------   2250-  2210-  2135-  2205-  2200
--------------------------------------------------------
127.8 (6C), 1435, 280, -103   -107   -106   -104   -111
--------------------------------------------------------
126.7 (2A), 1565, 269, -105   -103   -102   -102   -104
--------------------------------------------------------
128.5 (8E), 1766, 276, -108   -103   -102   -104   -112  
--------------------------------------------------------
127.0 (3B), 1871, 257, -107   -106   -121   -105   -110
--------------------------------------------------------
127.5 (5B), 1890, 247, -104   -101   -107   -106   -107
--------------------------------------------------------
126.4 (1B), 2282, 253, -111   -117   -118   -107   -117
--------------------------------------------------------
128.93 ref, 1553, 228,  -74    -72    -79    -77    -77
--------------------------------------------------------
kHz    Ch   d,km  AZI    Indicated ESH2 input, dBmW
--------------------------------------------------------
(R&S ESH2/---- 10m coax---/1:10/---15m wire-----):
Noise level with antenna: with 200Hz IF BandWidth: 
-24..-22 dB(uV), -131..-129dBmW (varies w qrm etc)
--------------------------------------------------------
End of message of 25 Jan 2000, 1540 UTC, from OH2LX




----------------------------------------------------------
V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland
------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------
E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi


----------------------------------------------------------
V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland
------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------
E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 26138 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2000 16:38:56 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jan 2000 16:38:56 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12D8r2-0007Ci-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:30:08 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12D8r0-0007Ca-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:30:06 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12D8qw-000Dtb-0V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:30:02 +0000
Message-ID: <1ymzAGA18cj4EwED@telemetry.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:28:37 +0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Tom Boucher" 
Subject: LF: HB9ASB
In-reply-to: <16708966.948139376885.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Toni

Many thanks for QSO on 136 this afternoon (Tuesday) and very nice to
hear you back on the air again. Although I only gave you a report of
449, your signals peaked to 559 at the end of the QSO.

73, Tom G3OLB
Loc. IO80iu



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 23398 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2000 19:45:22 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jan 2000 19:45:22 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12DBhv-0008NX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:32:55 +0000
Received: from as-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.144] helo=spamgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12DBht-0008NS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:32:54 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id OAA26941 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:32:39 -0500 (EST)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:32:00 -0500
From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Subject: LF: More information on DCF39
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Message-ID: <200001251432_MC2-9640-9B45@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Disposition: inline
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hello Lowfers,

I have send the audio file with the 1-minute recording of DCF39 on 138.830
kHz to some people in the U.S. 

John KD4IDY has volunteered to put it on the LWCA homepage (I myself share
the space on my LF homepage http://www.qru.de partly with my othe rpage
htp://www.piperswine.de, also including a lot of audio files, so my own web
space is somewhat limited).

Now André, asks: 

>I like that file! Now I wonder why the Germans would transmit such a
signal?
>What do they do with it ?
>Maybe it just doesn't do anything, except annoy the lowfers..
 
I have digged in my files and found some interesting information compiled
by Tom, DL8AAM a while ago, that he posted on the packet radio network. It
should even be possible to decode the signal. 

The callsign that Tom states (DCF49)  probably is only valid for the 129.1
kHz transmitter, same is tru for the power (Gamal had posted some technical
information on the transmitter in Burg, DCF39, here a while ago). There is
even some uncertainty about the callsign within the company running it, I
have heard people saying that they received "DBF39" as well as "DCF39" in
ASCII.

Best 73

Geri, DK8KW (W1KW)
http://www.qru.de

------------------------------------------------------------------

VLF @EU          de:DL8AAM 12.01.98 16:00 360   6803 Bytes
DCF49 on 139 kHz
*** Bulletin-ID: 121803DB0NDR ***

980112/1603z DB0ABZ, 980112/1600z DB0ERF, 980112/1557z DB0MAK
980112/1457z OK0PKL, 980112/1611z DB0DLN, 980112/1538Z DB0TUD
980112/1530z DB0NDR
de DL8AAM @ DB0NDR.#NDS.DEU.EU   (Tom)
to VLF @ EU

*!* HOT NEWS *!* 
EFR - Europaeische Funk-Rundsteuerung GmbH
-----------------------------------------
Many European dxers have logged DCF49 on 129.1 kHz. The station is
still listed by some publishers as 'BMPT, Bonn', but that is not correct.
So, if it isn't BMPT Bonn, then who is responsible for the transmissions?
this month I have the true story for you.
Remember where you read it first.......  YES, in the WUN newsletter!!!
My sincere thanks to Klaus Betke for his research and to EFR Berlin
for their help and information.
 Station          : EFR Berlin
 Callsign         : DCF49
 Transmission site: LW-facility Mainflingen
 Radiated Power   : 60 kW
 Frequencies      : 129.1 and 139.0 kHz
 Transmission mode: 200 bps ASCII
 Modulation       : FSK
 Control protocol : DIN 19244
 Message format   : FT 1.2
 Service          : Long wave Teleswitching

Long wave teleswitching is a new way in load management technology. It
replaces the well adapted ripple-control technology, which is widely
used in the utility industry worldwide.
First a few words about ripple control. It is used for tariff-switching
applications and load management as well as for the control of street
lighting for example. Basically, ripple control systems are used to
spread information to lots of receivers installed in the supply region
of a utility. Today, ripple control is not considered to be a very
economical method but, for that, a relatively safe method.
Ripple control systems use the existing mains as signal carrier (i.e.
energy suppliers transmit 'tones' over the power lines for this purpose).
since the mains network is designed for 50 Hz, a ripple control freq of
a 100 Hz is being affected under certain circumstances. Consequently
the conventional ripple control will face changes due to new transmis-
sion methods and additional intelligence in modern receivers. The newly 
offered long wave teleswitching system is using a radio channel to 
transmit the information via air, apart from that it follows the same 
basic principles known from conventional ripple control.
The economical management of modern power supply systems requires possi-
bilities to transmit commands to control the consumption of electricity 
at any time. Audio frequency ripple control systems have been used for 
many years. They help to transmit control commands from the control
centre of an utility via the mains which can be received at any point of
the network. Many utilities are already using these systems (some 410
companies in Germany alone).

The main LW Teleswitching system components are:
     - control centre
     - central computer
     - LW teleswitch transmitter
     - LW teleswitch receiver
The CONTROL CENTRE of the utility consists of a standard computer
system (PC). The program used, enables every participant to initiate
his own messages. A reference-receiver signalises back the messages
sent by radio for monitoring purposes.
The CENTRAL COMPUTER is located in Mainflingen. This computer serves
to assign priorities, buffer, manage and pass on messages to the trans-
mitter.
The LW TELESWITCH RECEIVER is based on existing conventional ripple
control technology. The network filter has been replaced by a RF (radio
freq) filter. The areal is fixed on the receiver but can also be in-
stalled separately, if the location poses problems. The receiver has a
program memory to store repetitive control functions. This means that
only program changes have to be transmitted.
The LW TRANSMITTER operates at carrier freqs of 129.1 and 139.0 kHz.
modulation is by FSK; keying is done by shifting between a freq above
and below the carrier freq.
CONTROL TASKS. Modern LW teleswitch can fulfill the same tasks as
conventional ripple control. For example,
- switching tasks, such as:
 o rate switching of multi tariff meters (night and day rates)
 o switching of streetlights
 o switching of water heaters (to cause heaters to use the night charge)
 
 load control tasks, such as:
 o group heating control depending on the weather
 o load decrease
 o influence of load variation in industrial companies etc.
 o blocking of heat pump systems
- special tasks, such as:
 o transmission of tariff information remote parameter assignment of
   receiver groups or individual receivers.
o TELEGRAM FORMAT
most telegrams are a few bytes long i.e. about 1 second), but a length 
of up to 30 bytes will be possible soon. Reaction time is a few seconds.
Each telegram is transmitted asynchronous at 200 Baud and 340 Hz shift,
using 8 data bits plus even parity bit. The format is derived from the
international standard IEC 60870-5, or 870-5 in the old numbering system.
It consists of 7 header bytes, a user data field of up to 16 bytes, and
 trailing bytes:
       - Start        68h (h = hexadecimal)
      - L field    
      - L field
      - Start        68h
      - C field
      - A field
      - CI field
      - User data    0-16 bytes
      - Check sum
      - Stop         16h
After the start character 68h, the length field (L field) is transmitted
twice, followed by the start character once again. This is followed by
the C field, the A field and the CI field. The L field gives the number
of user data bytes plus 3 (for C, A, CI).
The C field (control field, function field) specifies the direction of
data flow and is responsible for various additional tasks. The A field
address field) serves to address the receiver; adresses 1 through 250
can be allocated to individual parties. Address 255 (FFh) is used to
transmit information to all participants (broadcast). The meaning of the
CI field (control information field) is not clear. Maybe it is used as
an address extension. Most often, however, it is identical to the A field.
The user data field is followed by the check sum, which is the least
significant byte of the arithmetical sum of C, A, CI and the user bytes.
Finally the stop character 16h is transmitted.
Most telegrams are sent twice. Currently the lengths range from L = 5
to L = 13. Occasionally the string "DCF49 TEST" is transmitted in the
user data field, with L = 13, C = FFh, A = FFh (broadcast), CI = FFh.


------------------------------------------------------------------



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 7766 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2000 20:35:30 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jan 2000 20:35:30 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12DCZM-0000DM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:28:08 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from smtper.inrete.it ([212.110.32.184] helo=mailer.inrete.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12DCZK-0000DH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:28:06 +0000
Received: from cel266 (nr35-132.inrete.it [212.110.35.132]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA16064 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:27:58 +0100
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:27:58 +0100
Message-ID: <4.1.20000125211424.00aebca0@mailer.inrete.it>
X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1
Data: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:27:18 +0100
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "M. Bruno" 
Subject: LF: DCF39 signal
In-reply-to: <200001251432_MC2-9640-9B45@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hi all,

in past weekend I experimented monitoring DCF39's signal with Spectran
(the Beta 2c version seems to work well).

I receive the sky wave, since the Alps stop the ground wave. The result
is that the signal has random amplitude and phase, and there is no
increase in visual S/N decreasing the bandwidth under 0.064 Hz.
A screenshot of the resulting signal is available. Probably also the
FSK modulation contributes to the line spreading observed; the other
tone is well outside my spectrogram, but there seems to be a coincidence
between data packets and noise +/- 1 Hz around the carrier.

I also measured the carrier frequency. It is very close to 138830 Hz; the
error is probably less than 0.1 Hz, so if anyone in the States is able to
carefully check the received frequency, the identification should be quite
sure,
even without hearing the modulation by data packets.


73 - Marco IK1ODO

spin@inrete.it

Rivalta, ITALY JN35SA (N 45 01' 25.6", E 7 31' 09.4")




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 20935 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2000 21:14:46 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jan 2000 21:14:46 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12DD51-0000PL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:00:51 +0000
Received: from cask.force9.net ([195.166.128.29]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12DD50-0000PG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:00:50 +0000
Received: (qmail 31453 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2000 21:00:34 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO main) (212.159.64.101) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2000 21:00:34 -0000
Message-ID: <00ce01bf6777$e2542e00$0600a8c0@main>
From: "Dave" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
References: 
Subject: LF: Re: Narrow Bandwidth reception
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:36:30 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Dear all.

I was the other half of the QSO which started this debate, on 73kHz, I don't
need FFT to work Graham on 136!
I started with the 86Hz bandwidth but my PC runs so slowly that the
characters were too short. Reverting to the next one up (about 172Hz) it was
an easier copy. I imagine that a PC with more number-crunching ability would
help here!

I always use the 30dB scale as it emphasises small signal-level differences
better. Incidentally, I still like the old greyscale representation that the
original version did. Black for no signal getting lighter the stronger the
signal. Some of the colour schemes just seem to confuse.

We must try a comparison of Spectran against Spectrogram one day too...

73, Dave G3YXM

> I would like to know other users experiences using the Spectrogram
programs.
> I have frequently found that I am only able to detect the weakest stations
> using a sample rate of 5.5k with a FFT size of 16384. This gives an
> on-screen bandwidth of 86 Hz. If I attempt to see more of the band, either
> by increasing the sample rate, or decreasing the FFT size, I am unable to
> detect the signal that I know is there.  This seems fairly obvious, in
that
> decreasing bandwidth should improve signal to noise, but I wonder if all
> users have the same results?
>
> 73 de Graham B. Phillips.  G3XTZ.
>
>
>



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 941 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2000 23:53:35 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jan 2000 23:53:35 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12DFby-0001RE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:43:02 +0000
Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12DFbw-0001R9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:43:00 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA09834 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:42:56 GMT
X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Message-ID: <2000012523430768199@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:43:07 GMT
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Peter Dodd" 
X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836
Subject: LF: Re: Transatlantic tests et al
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 
Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit



This report was delayed until the AMRAD report had been published on 
the website. This should be read in conjunction with the AMRAD report
It was further delayed because of pressure of other work and for this 
I apologize




TRANSATLANTIC TESTS. TRANSMISSIONS FROM THE UK.


For the duration of the listening tests at Nags head I agreed with 
Andre', via e-mail, to co-ordinate some slow CW transmissions. 
To this end I had a meeting with the Crawley group and spent a very 
pleasant afternoon with Derek G3GRO and Lech, G3KAU. Dave, G0MRF (who 
designed the first of the LF solid state PAs) was also there. Apart 
from the main business we had a look at Lech's kilowatt solid state 
PA and loading coil system. We also checked out the Spectran software 
that the AMRAD group proposed to use to monitor a small segment of the band.
We studied a recording of signal strength measurement of France-Inter 
on 162 kHz posted on   web site and decided to focus our 
efforts between 0200Z to 0700Z.

G3GRO, G3KAU agreed to transmit from the Crawley Radio Club with the 
larger antenna and Lech's PA with the power down to around 700W to 
stay within the 1Werp limit. Transmission times 0400 to 0600 decided 
on as the period of probable best propagation according to the signal 
strength measurements mentioned above. In the event the Crawley Radio 
club was not able to operate on the first night because the antenna 
downlead had to be replace (requiring the use of a double extension ladder).
The other stations included in the test were Dave, G3YXM and Graham, G3XTZ. 

The factors influencing the choice of stations for the test were 
reasonably high erp, QRSS capability and frequency setting and 
stability. I also had to be able to communicate any change of 
operating time of frequency rapidly in the event of any feedback from 
Nags Head. The eventual line up was 

G3XTZ  137.780kHz
G3YXM  137.770kHz
G3LDO  137.760kHz
G3KAU  137.750kHz (not transmitting first night of tests)

The purpose of this 10Hz spacing was to place them in a narrow 
segment that could be examined in a narrow bandwidth with Spectran.

On the first night received the first e-mail from Nags Head saying
> We set up last night, Friday 15 Jan 2000.  Results follow.
> Low noise, excellent conditions

Transatlantic band conditions were very good with CFH 20dB over S9 on 
the TS850. Sharp crisp 'buckshot' QRN also an indication of good conditions.
The weather was good, light wind, cold with light rain/sleet. no 
problems for transmitting.

The first night was regarded as a test of the equipment as much as 
anything else. My exciter unit (crystal mixer) did not stay within 
the 2Hz limit I imposed. The problem was the temperature variation in 
the remote LF shack which ranged from  10 to -4 degrees C. The fix 
was to place the exciter on top of the R4C Drake receiver. All those 
valves (tubes) made a nice crystal oven and the frequency stayed within 0.5Hz.

The main test was on Saturday/Sunday. All stations including G3KAU 
transmitted. 
G3YXM and G3XTZ transmitted from midnight UTC
The weather was good, no wind, very cold. no problems for transmitting.

E-mail from Nags Head reported no signals seen.

The third night was a repeat of the second. The only incident was my 
keying relay stuck and the carrier remained on for at least the last 
hour of the test. Amazingly no melt down occurred - these FETs must 
be really well run in.

E-mail from Nags Head reported no signals seen.

>From the experience gained in co-ordinating this transmitting effort 
it should be possible to extend it through Europe for further tests.

Andre' said


> What was really great was to have all your transmitter frequencies
> clustered in a fairly narrow band, as it allowed us to focus our
> efforts with the dsp programs. Had your signals been all over the
> band, it would have been much more difficult to jump all over the
> place.
> Once again, may we ask you Peter to convey our sincere thanks to the
> rest of the British amateurs who participated in this event? 

Other news
On 20/1 I worked OG5UFO operated by Reino He copied me 559 and I 
copied him 459 due to the Loran.
I am always impressed by Reino's good ears.
Tonight listened to a QSO between OZ5N and OZ1KML tonight 25/1 at 
2045 and was able to copy everything over 15 mins of the QSO. I 
couldn't make anything of what I had written down - all double Danish to me!
I haven't been able to work OZ as yet.

-- 
Regards, Peter, G3LDO









From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 29967 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2000 01:36:52 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jan 2000 01:36:52 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12DHJd-00029F-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 01:32:13 +0000
Received: from cask.force9.net ([195.166.128.29]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12DHJb-00029A-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 01:32:12 +0000
Received: (qmail 32178 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2000 01:32:07 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO main) (212.159.72.241) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 2000 01:32:07 -0000
Message-ID: <001601bf679d$d2123c00$0600a8c0@main>
From: "Dave" 
To: "LF Group" 
Subject: LF: ITU document.
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 01:16:44 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Dear all.

I understand there is an ITU paper ITU-R [Doc.3/14] which deals with
Sky-wave field strength at Frequencies between About 150 and 1700 kHz. This
sounds as if it may be of interest to us all. Does anyone have access to
this document?

73, Dave G3YXM.

g3yxm@picks.f9.co.uk



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 6634 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2000 03:22:40 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jan 2000 03:22:40 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12DIr4-0002hd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 03:10:50 +0000
Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.157]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12DIr2-0002hY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 03:10:48 +0000
Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-118-35.bellatlantic.net [151.200.118.35]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA03971; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:10:39 -0500 (EST)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <388E6414.8A54E4DF@bellatlantic.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:03:49 -0500
From: "Andre' Kesteloot" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47  (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "RSGB-LF" 
Subject: LF: DBF39 vs. DCF39
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net id WAA03971
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Per David Wilson, DCF39 transmits from Mainflingen, while DBF39 transmits from
Burg
See below
Andre' N4ICK
*****************************
"David L. Wilson" wrote:

> The callsign depends on which transmit site is actually being used:
> ITU:
>    FREQUENCY  ł CNT ł     STATION NAME     ł  ADM   ł GEO. COORDINATES ł CL
>
> 00139.00000K  ł D   ł BURG 1               ł D      ł 011E5400 52N1700 ł FX
>
>  ASSIGN_ID : 096021507    REGION : 1   EMISS/REC : E   RECORD TYPE : A01
>
> 1C :
> 1D :                                      DATE-MRF-UPD :  19.02.1997
> 2C :    01.12.1996                        WIC-NBR/PART :  2266/2
> 3A :    DBF39                             NOTICE-TYPE  :  1A1
> 4C :    011E5400 52N1700                  RR NOTIF     :  RR1214
> 4D :                                      NOISE-ZONE   :
> 4E :                                      SYNC         :
> 4G :
> 6B :    CV
> 6C :
> 9E(S):
> 10A:
> 12A:    001
> 12B:    A
> 13C:
>
>
>   FREQUENCY  ł CNT ł     STATION NAME     ł  ADM   ł GEO. COORDINATES ł CL
>
> 00139.00000K  ł D   ł MAINFLINGEN          ł D      ł 009E0000 50N0100 ł FX
>
>  ASSIGN_ID : 080002113    REGION : 1   EMISS/REC : E   RECORD TYPE : A01
>
> 1C :
> 1D :                                      DATE-MRF-UPD :  15.06.1994
> 2C :    10.01.1961                        WIC-NBR/PART :  1792/A
> 3A :    DCF39                             NOTICE-TYPE  :  1A1
> 4C :    009E0000 50N0100                  RR NOTIF     :  RR1214
> 4D :                                      NOISE-ZONE   :
> 4E :                                      SYNC         :
> 4G :
> 6B :    CR
> 6C :
> 9E(S):
> 10A:
> 12A:    001
> 12B:    A
> 13C:
> _______________________________________________
> lf mailing list
> lf@amrad.org

http://www.amrad.org/mailman/listinfo/lf






From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 17860 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2000 03:43:57 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jan 2000 03:43:57 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12DJCJ-0002rb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 03:32:47 +0000
Received: from ins23.netins.net ([167.142.225.23] helo=smtp-out.netins.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12DJCH-0002rW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 03:32:46 +0000
Received: from netins.net (desm-26-105.dialup.netins.net [167.142.22.234]) by smtp-out.netins.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00157 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:32:36 -0600 (CST)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <388E6AD2.2DF3AF52@netins.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:32:34 -0600
From: "Tom Gruis, Ed.D." 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: ITU document.
References: <001601bf679d$d2123c00$0600a8c0@main>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Dave and all - Try this URL for the document.  The list indicates it is
indeed there.  I put "sky-wave" into their search spot, and there are
more than one matching references.

http://www.itu.int/plweb-cgi/fastweb?search

The basic URL is www.itu.org

Good luck!

73, Doc, K0HTF and "D"   EN31dx




_______________________________________________________

Dave wrote:
> 
> Dear all.
> 
> I understand there is an ITU paper ITU-R [Doc.3/14] which deals with
> Sky-wave field strength at Frequencies between About 150 and 1700 kHz. This
> sounds as if it may be of interest to us all. Does anyone have access to
> this document?
> 
> 73, Dave G3YXM.
> 
> g3yxm@picks.f9.co.uk


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 10159 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2000 14:48:49 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jan 2000 14:48:49 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12DTaF-00075l-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:38:11 +0000
Received: from ins23.netins.net ([167.142.225.23] helo=smtp-out.netins.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12DTaD-00075g-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:38:10 +0000
Received: from netins.net (desm-24-94.dialup.netins.net [167.142.21.223]) by smtp-out.netins.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08379 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:38:03 -0600 (CST)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <388F06CC.98D89E5E@netins.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:38:04 -0600
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
From: "Tom Gruis, Ed.D." 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: ITU Document
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Andre - 

        Okay.  You are oh so right!  I copied the URL and pasted it into
my
previous post so for once it was not my terrible handwriting.

        But if you go to this address you reach the ITU:       
http://www.itu.org    and then from there you can find the publications.

        After entering the "itu.org" the address contacted then comes up
as:  
http://www.itu.int/  BUT when I went to that address it came back
"Forbidden."

        So, it seems, start with www.itu.org.

73,

Doc, K0HTF and longwave "D"
________________________________

Andre' Kesteloot wrote:
> 
> Hello Tom,
> when I visited the site you recommended, all I got was:
> "Error 2703: Usage: fastweb search operation view dbname numitems starthit
> fieldquery query"
> 73
> Andre' N4ICK
> 
> "Tom Gruis, Ed.D." wrote:
> 
> > Dave and all - Try this URL for the document.  The list indicates it is
> > indeed there.  I put "sky-wave" into their search spot, and there are
> > more than one matching references.
> >
> > http://www.itu.int/plweb-cgi/fastweb?search
> >
> > The basic URL is www.itu.org
> >
> > Good luck!
> >
> > 73, Doc, K0HTF and "D"   EN31dx
> >
> > _______________________________________________________
> >
> > Dave wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear all.
> > >
> > > I understand there is an ITU paper ITU-R [Doc.3/14] which deals with
> > > Sky-wave field strength at Frequencies between About 150 and 1700 kHz. This
> > > sounds as if it may be of interest to us all. Does anyone have access to
> > > this document?
> > >
> > > 73, Dave G3YXM.
> > >
> > > g3yxm@picks.f9.co.uk


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 3726 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2000 15:05:26 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jan 2000 15:05:26 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12DTpS-0007DP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:53:54 +0000
Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12DTpP-0007DK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:53:51 +0000
Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-111-89.bellatlantic.net [151.200.111.89]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA04715; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:53:31 -0500 (EST)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <388F0AE9.2165E74B@bellatlantic.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:55:37 -0500
From: "Andre' Kesteloot" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47  (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "lf, AMRAD" , "RSGB-LF" 
Cc: "F1TAY, Daniel" 
Subject: LF: Long Wave Broacasts
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hello LFers,

As you may recall, when we were in Nags Head two weeks ago, we could
hear both "France Inter" on 162 KHz and "Europe1" on 183 KHz, often
with great clarity, but not always at the same time. It also seemed to
me that Europe 1 usually was weaker than France Inter, and tended to
fade out earlier, and deeper.

Looking at some recently received information from Daniel F1TAY,

a) Europe1 (1.4MW) is situated half-way between the towns of
Luxembourg and Strasbourg, (06 degrees  40 minutes East; 49 deg. 17
min North) about 700 Km from the ocean. It uses a directional antenna,
concentrating its power in a south-westerly direction (220 degrees)
This would place its main lobe toward Rio de Janeiro !
(Their web site also states that their ground is made of 195
Kilometers of 3mm copper wire...)

b) France Inter (2MW) is located near Bourges (02 deg 12 min. East; 47
deg. 10 minutes North), almost at the geographical center of France,
and only about 300 kilometers from the ocean (Hence less attenuation
over ground) . It presumably uses an ominidirectional antenna

Considering the above, I am amazed we could hear Europe1 that well.
This is all to the good, of course.
73
Andre' N4ICK (totally snowbound in 14 inches of the stuff)


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 1860 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2000 00:45:41 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jan 2000 00:45:41 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Dcpe-0002U1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:30:42 +0000
Received: from m11.boston.juno.com ([205.231.100.194]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Dcpc-0002Tw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:30:40 +0000
Received: "yokUgcxCbtTP7XLrpefewB5vbFOx+6eEkheWRrtH/Uc0IxEKQ2eqXw=="
Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EXA34QEA; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:30:12 EST
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:27:19 -0500
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Subject: LF: DFC 39
Message-ID: <20000126.192731.-189417.5.riese-k3djc@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-3,5-10
X-Juno-Att: 0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
From: "Bob RIESE" 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 


I received a JPG from IK1ODO of DFC 39 and tonight at 2330 GMT had a
robust signal on Spectran and was able to compare the two images

They match well. The frequency is correct, the time that I see it is
correct

If it quacks like and walks like a duck , it must be

I can ship a JPG of my tracing as required

Bob K3DJC


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 27700 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2000 13:43:04 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jan 2000 13:43:04 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Dp11-0007Mh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:31:15 +0000
Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Dp0x-0007Mc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:31:11 +0000
Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12DoyP-00020D-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:28:33 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <14850.200001271335@gemini>
From: "James Moritz" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: University of Hertfordshire
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:36:01 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: LF: Automatic ATUs
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11)
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Dear LF Group,
	Many thanks to all those who responded to my request for 
information regarding automatic ATUs - I now have several leads 
to go on for my research.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 6294 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2000 16:07:57 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jan 2000 16:07:57 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Dr9z-0008IK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:48:39 +0000
Received: from host.king.igs.net ([216.58.2.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Dr9u-0008IF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:48:35 +0000
Received: from server1 (ttyC23.king.igs.net [216.58.2.185]) by host.king.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id KAA45307 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:48:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kayser@king.igs.net)
Message-ID: <000c01bf68dd$e991c990$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca>
From: "Larry Kayser" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Slective Level Meter, W&G AT-611, info?
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:48:04 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Greetings all:

I have a chance to pick up a Wandel & Goltermann AT-611 Selective Level
Meter covers from DC to green light.  Does anyone have any experience with
this unit on LF?

Thanks in advance.

Larry
VA3LK





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 13175 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2000 16:33:58 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jan 2000 16:33:58 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Drgl-00004W-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:22:31 +0000
Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Drgj-00004R-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:22:30 +0000
Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-114-160.bellatlantic.net [151.200.114.160]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA03592; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:22:08 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <389070F5.B8F5E0FD@bellatlantic.net>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:23:18 -0500
From: "Andre' Kesteloot" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47  (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Kayser VA3LK, Larry" 
Cc: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, 
 "Gentges, Frank" 
Subject: Re: LF: Selective Level Meter, W&G AT-611, info?
References: <000c01bf68dd$e991c990$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hello Larry
Believe that this is one of the machines owned by  Frank K0BRA, who will reply
directly to you, explaining why one actually needs an old toothbrush to hold a
particular switch in place...
We used both (the unit and the toothbrush) during our Nags Head expedition two
week-ends ago, and were able to hear with it the Indian (submarine commo)
station on 16 KHz.  It can be calibrated in absolute values, hence its
usefulness.
73
Andre'
********************************
Larry Kayser wrote:

> I have a chance to pick up a Wandel & Goltermann AT-611 Selective Level
> Meter covers from DC to green light.  Does anyone have any experience with
> this unit on LF?




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 1665 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2000 19:17:11 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jan 2000 19:17:11 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12DuIy-0001Dq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:10:08 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12DuIu-0001Dl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:10:05 +0000
Received: from [195.44.217.142] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12DuIo-0006Zo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:09:58 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <38909754.215AEA62@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:07:00 +0000
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "rsgb" 
Subject: LF: transatlantic
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Until we get some of the big antenna 160 metres operators in the
USA/CANADA and the UK plus the rest of EU interested in 136 khz the
chances of a qso are NIL across the ocean. These operators have the
facilities plus operating skills to achieve success if at all possible.
73 de G3KEV with 158 countries worked on 160 metres. Just worked XZ0A on
160 a few minutes ago after two calls. Antenna 3/8 wave on 160 and up
100 ft.





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 21184 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2000 19:32:13 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jan 2000 19:32:13 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12DuVa-0001Jv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:23:10 +0000
Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12DuVZ-0001Jm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:23:10 +0000
Received: from [202.27.178.138] by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz         (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP         id <20000127192220.XUUQ3144.mta3-rme@[202.27.178.138]>         for ;         Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:22:20 +1300
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3890980D.7B7D@xtra.co.nz>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:10:05 +1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
From: "vernall" 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA  (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Automatic ATUs
References: <14850.200001271335@gemini>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

James Moritz wrote:
> 
> Dear LF Group,
>         Many thanks to all those who responded to my request for
> information regarding automatic ATUs - I now have several leads
> to go on for my research.
> 
> Cheers, Jim Moritz
> 73 de M0BMU

James,

Could you please consider putting a summary list on the reflector?

I have been considering making an "automatic fine tuner" for LF, for
reactance compensation only.  I believe that variation of the reactive
component of impedance is what is mainly involved with short term
changes over wet/dry/ice or whatever environmental conditions.  Once the
LF antenna has been "tuned and matched" using the likes of a (big)
loading coil with taps or L match, the relatively small variations in
reactance with changing conditions could be handled with a motor driven
variometer (say 50 uH range).  This is a whole lot simpler than having
the whole tuner automated (more suited to multi-band and multi-antenna
scenarios, but not common on LF).

73, Bob ZL2CA




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 18659 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2000 20:54:31 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jan 2000 20:54:31 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Dvox-0001oS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:47:15 +0000
Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Dvow-0001oN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:47:14 +0000
Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-111-42.bellatlantic.net [151.200.111.42]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA14514; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:47:01 -0500 (EST)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3890AF52.F75BBC94@bellatlantic.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:49:22 -0500
From: "Andre' Kesteloot" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47  (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: transatlantic
References: <38909754.215AEA62@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Dear G3KEV,
Have you made a specialty of positive comments ?
Sincerely
Andre' N4ICK
*************************
g3kev wrote:

> Until we get some of the big antenna 160 metres operators in the
> USA/CANADA and the UK plus the rest of EU interested in 136 khz the
> chances of a qso are NIL across the ocean. These operators have the
> facilities plus operating skills to achieve success if at all possible.
> 73 de G3KEV with 158 countries worked on 160 metres. Just worked XZ0A on
> 160 a few minutes ago after two calls. Antenna 3/8 wave on 160 and up
> 100 ft.



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 20391 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2000 07:39:26 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jan 2000 07:39:26 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12E5iF-0005o5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:20:59 +0000
Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226] helo=gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12E5iE-0005o0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:20:58 +0000
Received: by gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA02849; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:21:27 +0100 (MET)
Received: from somewhere by smtpxd
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from somewhere by smtpxd
Message-ID: 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" 
To: "'rsgb_lf_group'" 
Cc: "'dl1san@yahoo'" 
Subject: LF: LF
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:20:40 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hallo Group,

Thursday evenig I worked IK5ZPV 559 got 449.  Valerio, thank´s for the nice
qso. You are the first I-station in my log.

Later heared something like LYG 429 but only once. Did anyone else hear
OH3LYG on the band?

I will be qrv during the weeked. Sked´s are welcome via e-mail to
dl1san@yahoo.com
  
73 de dl1san Wolf
http://www.qsl.net/dl1san/


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 26081 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2000 07:43:23 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jan 2000 07:43:23 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12E5rU-0005pA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:30:32 +0000
Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.91]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12E5rT-0005p5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:30:31 +0000
Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12E5rO-000F8F-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:30:26 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3891453E.95058390@alg.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:29:02 +0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
From: "Steve Rawlings" 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Automatic ATUs
References: <14850.200001271335@gemini> <3890980D.7B7D@xtra.co.nz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Bob ZL2CA wrote:
> . . . . Once the
> LF antenna has been "tuned and matched" using the likes of a (big)
> loading coil with taps or L match, the relatively small variations in
> reactance with changing conditions could be handled with a motor driven
> variometer (say 50 uH range). . . . .

I have been using such a fine-tuner on 136 kHz for several months with
great success.  Although not 'automatic' in operation, the tuner is
remote- controlled, and enables rapid changes in operating frequency to
be made.

Details of the general arrangement can be found at:
http://www.alg.demon.co.uk/radio/136/rem_vario.htm

Regards to all,
Steve GW4ALG


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 23734 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2000 09:30:25 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jan 2000 09:30:25 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12E7cC-0006YR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:22:52 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12E7cB-0006YH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:22:51 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12E7c5-000ADa-0W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:22:46 +0000
Message-ID: 
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:05:27 +0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Tom Boucher" 
Subject: Re: LF: Selective Level Meter, W&G AT-611, info?
In-reply-to: <389070F5.B8F5E0FD@bellatlantic.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Another use for old toothbrushes??

In message <389070F5.B8F5E0FD@bellatlantic.net>, Andre' Kesteloot
 writes
>Hello Larry
>Believe that this is one of the machines owned by  Frank K0BRA, who will reply
>directly to you, explaining why one actually needs an old toothbrush to hold a
>particular switch in place...
>We used both (the unit and the toothbrush) during our Nags Head expedition two
>week-ends ago, and were able to hear with it the Indian (submarine commo)
>station on 16 KHz.  It can be calibrated in absolute values, hence its
>usefulness.
>73
>Andre'
>********************************
>Larry Kayser wrote:
>
>> I have a chance to pick up a Wandel & Goltermann AT-611 Selective Level
>> Meter covers from DC to green light.  Does anyone have any experience with
>> this unit on LF?
>
>
>

-- 
Tom Boucher
Telemetry Consultants Limited
10 Market Square
Chesham
Buckinghamshire HP5 1ES
UK
Tel:  (44)(0)1494 792433
Fax:  (44)(0)1494 792533
Mobile:07932-615232
www.telemetry.demon.co.uk


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 2561 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2000 09:30:29 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jan 2000 09:30:29 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12E7cD-0006YT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:22:53 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.91]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12E7cB-0006YI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:22:52 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12E7c5-000Ova-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:22:47 +0000
Message-ID: 
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:17:39 +0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Tom Boucher" 
Subject: Re: LF: transatlantic
In-reply-to: <38909754.215AEA62@netscapeonline.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Mal

I suppose it stands to reason that to make a QSO needs someone at both
ends. As Andre says, think POSITIVE.

I also worked XZ0A last Sunday after one call, and that was using my
long, low 136 KHz antenna.

73, Tom G3OLB.

In message <38909754.215AEA62@netscapeonline.co.uk>, g3kev
 writes
>Until we get some of the big antenna 160 metres operators in the
>USA/CANADA and the UK plus the rest of EU interested in 136 khz the
>chances of a qso are NIL across the ocean. These operators have the
>facilities plus operating skills to achieve success if at all possible.
>73 de G3KEV with 158 countries worked on 160 metres. Just worked XZ0A on
>160 a few minutes ago after two calls. Antenna 3/8 wave on 160 and up
>100 ft.
>
>
>
>


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 18675 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2000 10:12:09 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jan 2000 10:12:09 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12E8Dg-0006nI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:01:36 +0000
Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12E8De-0006n1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:01:35 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id FAA17785; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 05:10:52 -0500 (EST)
Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (8.9.0/) id FAA06110; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 05:00:28 -0500 (EST)
Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by umrsvr.hsd.utc.com; (8.9.0/) id EAA10499; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 04:58:31 -0500 (EST)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:54:51 +0100
Message-ID: 
From: "Soegiono, Gamal" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: DCF39 and DCF49
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:54:50 +0100
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 
Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

Dear LF friends

who would like to know more details from stations
DCF39 and/or DCF49


I am just compiling a list of details, facts, technical parameters
which I will forward to the user of DCF39 and DCF49 i.e.
EFR (Europaeische Funk Rundsteuerungs GmbH).

Please send me a direct email, specifying what details, facts, 
technical parameters you are interested in and would like to know. 

Deadline = Feb 02/2000.




Best 73 de Gamal

soegiono@nm.hsd.utc.com
or
soegiono@nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com








From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 6256 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2000 10:35:57 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jan 2000 10:35:57 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12E8cy-0006ym-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:27:44 +0000
Received: from mail1.isys.net ([193.96.224.45]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12E8cx-0006yh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:27:43 +0000
Received: from a [195.64.97.116]  by mail1.isys.net with esmtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 12E8kh-0004Ru-00; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:35:43 +0100
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
From: "Klaus von der Heide" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:28:11 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: LF: Transatlantic
In-reply-to: <4.2.0.58.20000125142631.00966560@mailhost.pncl.co.uk>
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b)
Message-ID: 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 



Hello LF-Friends,

the negative result of the recent transatlantic experiment only says 
that the usual ham methods for LF contacts are not adequate for a 
transatlantic distance. A weak signal never excludes information 
transmission, it only reduces the information bit rate. Why not try, 
as a first step, to get one single bit over the ocean? 
The communication theory says that BPSK is optimum, and a 
bandwidth considerably larger than the information bit rate is better 
than a small one. 

I therefore, propose the following experiment:

1. Both, transmitter and receiver, must be synchronized to an 
    atomic clock, i.e. all oscillators that determine the carrier 
    or the symbol rate. Especially the sampling frequency of 
    a DSP (not the processor clock) must be synchronized.
    A soundcard normally cannot. 

2. The symbol rate is exactly  1 bit/s.  Starting every minute, 
    a constant random pattern of 60 bits is sent out. 
    Appropriate matched filters must be used at both ends.

3. At the receiving end, a DSP adds the 60 new  values to 
    60 accumulators.

4. The contents of the accumulators is correlated with the 
    known random bit pattern. After many hours or days 
    (or years?) the correlation must become significant.

5. It is important to suppress the non-Gaussian noise as 
    good as possible before the data are accumulated.

As I mentioned some weeks ago, phased array antennas 
at both ends would increase the signal by many dBs. 
There isn't any dought that hams can cross information 
over the atlantic. The minimum information of a ham QSO 
is 50 bits in either direction. The open questions only is: 
Is the possible information bit rate  1 bit per day  or is it 
1 bit per 5 minutes  or in other words: can a QSO run 
within 10 hours or can it definitely not.

73 de Klaus, DJ5HG



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 7848 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2000 10:45:10 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jan 2000 10:45:10 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12E8lu-00070E-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:36:58 +0000
Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12E8ls-000707-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:36:56 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id FAA21929; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 05:46:15 -0500 (EST)
Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (8.9.0/) id FAA12578; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 05:35:51 -0500 (EST)
Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by umrsvr.hsd.utc.com; (8.9.0/) id FAA11513; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 05:29:24 -0500 (EST)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:25:44 +0100
Message-ID: 
From: "Soegiono, Gamal" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: DCF39 and DCF49
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:25:44 +0100
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 
Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

Hello LF friends

two questions regarding DCF39 and DCF49

(Q1) Who is able to receive either station from a distance of _more_ than
500 km ?

(Q2) Who is able to _decode_ the signals from DCF39 and DCF49 ?

Would like to have samples of actually sent data messages.

The data rate is 200 bit/sec (non standard for a normal PC's
serial interface), serial data comes with 1 start bit,
8 data bits, even parity bit and one stop-bit (11 bits total for
transmitting 1 byte of data.

Data messages consist of 14 - 22 bytes, each message sent twice.


Appreciate if you could send me the contents of some data messages 
to my email adress in the following binary formate:

0 0001 0110 11
[...]
[...]
0 0001 0110 11
[...]
[...]
0_0110_1000_11

First number is the start-bit (always "0")
following group of four numbers are the lower nibble of one byte of data
second group of four numbers are the upper nibble of one byte of data
following group of numbers are the even parity bit and the stop bit (always
"1").

Thank you in advance for your help.


best 73 de Gamal

soegiono@nm.hsd.utc.com
or
soegiono@nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com






From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 12115 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2000 11:27:45 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jan 2000 11:27:45 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12E9Nv-0007Ia-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:16:15 +0000
Received: from w111.web2010.com ([216.157.58.254] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12E9Nt-0007IU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:16:13 +0000
Received: from dell1.GMC.NET (as1-52.hk.iol.cz [194.228.133.52] (may be forged)) by w111.web2010.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id GAA03180 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 06:15:24 -0500 (EST)
Received: from p (P.MALY [192.168.1.35]) by dell1.GMC.NET with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id D5ATS4CA; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:17:08 +0100
Message-ID: <005701bf6981$37448bc0$2301a8c0@maly.gmc.net>
From: "Petr Maly" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
References: 
Subject: LF: Re: Transatlantic
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:17:00 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Interesting anyway, but is this still amateur radio transmission or rather 
scientific experiment? Or, at least, I really don't have atomic time base
in the ham-shack. 

73, Petr, OK1FIG


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Klaus von der Heide 
To: 
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2000 11:28 AM
Subject: LF: Transatlantic


> 
> 
> Hello LF-Friends,
> 
> the negative result of the recent transatlantic experiment only says 
> that the usual ham methods for LF contacts are not adequate for a 
> transatlantic distance. A weak signal never excludes information 
> transmission, it only reduces the information bit rate. Why not try, 
> as a first step, to get one single bit over the ocean? 
> The communication theory says that BPSK is optimum, and a 
> bandwidth considerably larger than the information bit rate is better 
> than a small one. 
> 
> I therefore, propose the following experiment:
> 
> 1. Both, transmitter and receiver, must be synchronized to an 
>     atomic clock, i.e. all oscillators that determine the carrier 
>     or the symbol rate. Especially the sampling frequency of 
>     a DSP (not the processor clock) must be synchronized.
>     A soundcard normally cannot. 
> 
> 2. The symbol rate is exactly  1 bit/s.  Starting every minute, 
>     a constant random pattern of 60 bits is sent out. 
>     Appropriate matched filters must be used at both ends.
> 
> 3. At the receiving end, a DSP adds the 60 new  values to 
>     60 accumulators.
> 
> 4. The contents of the accumulators is correlated with the 
>     known random bit pattern. After many hours or days 
>     (or years?) the correlation must become significant.
> 
> 5. It is important to suppress the non-Gaussian noise as 
>     good as possible before the data are accumulated.
> 
> As I mentioned some weeks ago, phased array antennas 
> at both ends would increase the signal by many dBs. 
> There isn't any dought that hams can cross information 
> over the atlantic. The minimum information of a ham QSO 
> is 50 bits in either direction. The open questions only is: 
> Is the possible information bit rate  1 bit per day  or is it 
> 1 bit per 5 minutes  or in other words: can a QSO run 
> within 10 hours or can it definitely not.
> 
> 73 de Klaus, DJ5HG
> 
> 
> 



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 18110 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2000 11:58:53 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jan 2000 11:58:53 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12E9w7-0007Vr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:51:35 +0000
Received: from xyber.irisz.hu ([212.92.1.142] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12E9w5-0007Vm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:51:33 +0000
Received: from xyber.irisz.hu (IDENT:ivan@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xyber.irisz.hu (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA08038 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:51:23 GMT
Message-ID: <389182B8.7B6C3099@irisz.hu>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:51:21 +0000
From: "Ivan Artner" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: IMC
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i486)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: DCF39 and DCF49
References: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by xyber.irisz.hu id LAA08038
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hi all


Soegiono, Gamal wrote:

> two questions regarding DCF39 and DCF49
> 
> (Q1) Who is able to receive either station from a distance of _more_ than
> 500 km ?

both stns. are pretty strong 24h signals here in JN97MM Budapest,
Hungary


> (Q2) Who is able to _decode_ the signals from DCF39 and DCF49 ?
 
I'm using the decoder software RADIORAFT with a simple opamp interface.
with mode ASCII-8P /200Bd (8P is for 8bits with parity)

all bursts are starting with the character "h" which is 68h
the rest of the data is  not for human eye :)
but sometimes I saw the "DCF49 TEST" string.


Here is a sample, how the "decoded" data looks like in ASCII:

hW|zchhZ\’ phhZZ\’ phh4`@ hh4`@ hhZZl’PhhZZl’Ph
hgzh
hDCF49 TESTŹh
hwzLh 
h!xzh
hzh   

73 de Ivan , HA5TS


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 25100 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2000 12:17:51 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jan 2000 12:17:51 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EAE0-0007hu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:10:04 +0000
Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EADy-0007hQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:10:03 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id HAA08678; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:19:18 -0500 (EST)
Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (8.9.0/) id HAA19244; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:08:53 -0500 (EST)
Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by umrsvr.hsd.utc.com; (8.9.0/) id HAA08678; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:00:16 -0500 (EST)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:56:37 +0100
Message-ID: 
From: "Soegiono, Gamal" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: AW: Re: Transatlantic
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:56:36 +0100
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 
Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

Dear Petr,

OK1FIG> Interesting anyway, but is this still amateur radio transmission 
OK1FIG> or rather scientific experiment? 

Please don't get me wrong.

For my understanding, this is one and the same, amateur radio as well
as scientific experiment.

Please refer to the CEPT/ERC Recommendation 62-01 E which allows us
to use this nice new band (if the national authority implements it
into national law):

----------- excerpt from CEPT/ERC Recommendation 62-01 E ------------
USE OF THE BAND 135.7-137.8 kHz BY THE AMATEUR SERVICE

Recommendation adopted by the Working Group "Frequency Management" (WGFM):

"The European Conference of Postal and Telecommunications Administrations,

considering

that the Amateur Service is a service according to the ITU radio regulations

for the purpose of self-training, intercommunication and technical 
investigations carried out by amateurs,

that radio amateurs conduct experiments in radiowave propagation and 
radiocommunication on a regular basis,

that the Low Frequency (LF) bands are of particular interest for
investigating 
as yet little understood propagation phenomena,
----------- excerpt from CEPT/ERC Recommendation 62-01 E ------------

So what Klaus von der Heide supposes might sound highly sofisticated
to one or another. But isn't it the wide spread of activities
which makes amateur radio so interesting for everyone?

I like ragchewing (this is also amateur radio),
I like experimenting (this is amateur radio as well).

That Klaus von der Heide needs precision clocks is just
another parameter required to succesfully dig deeper into
radio propagation not yet fully exhausted.



OK1FIG> Or, at least, I really don't have atomic time base
OK1FIG> in the ham-shack. 

I don't have one in my shack as well. But I may build a rather
simple receiver to utilize a frequency of one of the standard
time and frequency stations next door in order to synchronize
a PLL controlled VFO for example.

So please lets focus on the joy which amateur radio provides
us. Let's utilize what our authorities allow us. It is up to
us to select what corner of the wide spread and kind of
amateur radio activity field fits best to our taste.

Have a nice weekend and a lot of fun and success with amateur radio.

Best 73 de Gamal







From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 4048 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2000 14:42:10 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jan 2000 14:42:10 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ECTW-00008z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:34:14 +0000
Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ECTV-00008u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:34:13 +0000
Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.53) with SMTP id 01927363 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:33:51 +0100 (MET)
Message-ID: <3892D0B5.FF126E65@phonakcom.ch>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:36:21 -0800
From: "Toni Baertschi" 
Organization: Phonak Communications AG
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: LF
References: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Loop-Detect: 1
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

>>From HB2ASB

Yes, heard him too, he was 445.
Your signal was very strong here: 100uV!

73 de Toni

"Koenig, Wolfgang" wrote:

> Hallo Group,
>
> Thursday evenig I worked IK5ZPV 559 got 449.  Valerio, thank´s for the nice
> qso. You are the first I-station in my log.
>
> Later heared something like LYG 429 but only once. Did anyone else hear
> OH3LYG on the band?
>
> I will be qrv during the weeked. Sked´s are welcome via e-mail to
> dl1san@yahoo.com
>
> 73 de dl1san Wolf
> http://www.qsl.net/dl1san/



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 24285 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2000 15:32:19 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jan 2000 15:32:19 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EDDn-0000Xv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:22:03 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.88]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EDDm-0000Xq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:22:02 +0000
X-Priority: 3
Received: from pickmere.demon.co.uk ([158.152.117.143]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12EDDg-000JuM-0U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:21:57 +0000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: 
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:35:33 +0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "M.J.Powell" 
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Transatlantic
References: <005701bf6981$37448bc0$2301a8c0@maly.gmc.net>
In-reply-to: <005701bf6981$37448bc0$2301a8c0@maly.gmc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

In message <005701bf6981$37448bc0$2301a8c0@maly.gmc.net>, Petr Maly
 writes
>Interesting anyway, but is this still amateur radio transmission or rather 
>scientific experiment? Or, at least, I really don't have atomic time base
>in the ham-shack. 

Would amateurs be allowed to relay the one second pips from time-signal
stations? That should be synchronous across the pond. The receiving
station could phase shift their local T/S pips to correspond if
necessary. Stability assured!

Mike
-- 
M.J.Powell


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 4992 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2000 16:44:22 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jan 2000 16:44:22 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EEGY-0000zB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:28:58 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.41] helo=pyyhe.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EEGU-0000z6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:28:54 +0000
X-Priority: 3
Received: from default (DXCVI.tdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.80.96]) by pyyhe.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA09430 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 18:39:17 +0200 (EET)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000128182930.008c3d10@laatikko.saunalahti.fi>
X-Sender: oh2lx@laatikko.saunalahti.fi (Unverified)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32)
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 18:29:30 +0200
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= 
Subject: LF: Decca signal strength in OH2
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

A Study of Nighttime LF Signal Strength variations

During next two months it will be possible to measure
the signal strength of 7 existing UK Decca chains.
My aim is to measure them daily 21-22 UTC, if possible.
Only Green frequencies will be checked, due to QRM etc.
------------------------------------------------------
127.8  N Scottish   (6C), Lerwick,        1435, 280, 
126.7  Northumbrian (2A), Peterhead,      1565, 269, 
128.5  Hebridean    (8E), Butt of Lewis,  1766, 276,  
127.0  N British    (3B), Neston,         1871, 257,
127.5  English      (5B), East Hoathley,  1890, 247,
128.2  Irish        (7D), Dungloe,        2060, 267,
126.4  SW British   (1B), St. Mary's,     2282, 253, 
------------------------------------------------------
kHz    Decca Chain   /    Station         d,km  AZI
------------------------------------------------------
128.93 Mainflingen (EFR) (Reference stn)  1553, 228, 
------------------------------------------------------
(R&S ESH2/---- 10m coax---/1:10/---15m wire-----):
Noise level with antenna: with 200Hz IF BandWidth: 
-24..-22 dB(uV), -131..-129dBmW (varies w qrm etc)
------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: The ultimate goal here would be the measured
      (indicated) FIELD STRENGTH (Fs) (in dBuV/m).
In everyday practice it is seldom possible to
measure Fs, so the RECEIVER INPUT VOLTAGE (dBuV)
converted to RECEIVED POWER will be given (dBmW).

Later, during warmer wx conditions it should be
possible to make parallel measurements using
calibrated R&S HFH2-Z2 antennas to obtain the
approximate system correction factor for my poor
15 m wire, which should be rather non-directional.

QUESTION: Can anyone tell where to ask for a
battery connector for my R&S ESH2 Meas Receiver?
Type is: Lemosa, Type F.c 2304 6,7  (see below)

==================|               ..
                  |_           . o  o .
                    |          . o  o .
====================|             ..

73 from Vaino, OH2LX (60N34 024E58) KP20LN






----------------------------------------------------------
V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland
------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------
E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 22014 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2000 22:15:38 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jan 2000 22:15:38 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EHrN-0002Xi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:19:13 +0000
Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EHrM-0002Xd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:19:12 +0000
Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-118-78.bellatlantic.net [151.200.118.78]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA22749; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:18:58 -0500 (EST)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3891F5E2.90C31C27@bellatlantic.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:02:43 -0500
From: "Andre' Kesteloot" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47  (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Selective Level Meter, W&G AT-611, info?
References: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Tom Boucher wrote:

> Another use for old toothbrushes??

A good LF operator should always keep a few old toothbrushes around, just in case
:-)
Andre'





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 22277 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2000 22:15:57 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jan 2000 22:15:57 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EIHw-0002kr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:46:40 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EIHv-0002km-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:46:39 +0000
Received: from [195.44.222.237] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EIHq-0007ge-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:46:34 +0000
Message-ID: <3891FFA2.B4022A44@netscapeonline.co.uk>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:44:18 +0000
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: transatlantic
References: <38909754.215AEA62@netscapeonline.co.uk> <3890AF52.F75BBC94@bellatlantic.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 



Andre' Kesteloot wrote:

> Dear G3KEV,
> Have you made a specialty of positive comments

> Sincerely
> Andre' N4ICK

I try to be realistic. Most are struggling to work each other a few hundred
miles around Europe on LF. I hear them every day struggling and often
failing.  Except there are some improvements in the pipeline like hooking up
to commercial towers a few hundred feet high, the transatlantic qso is wishful
thinking. There are a few equipped and geographically suited in the UK,
IRELAND and Northern EU for the experiment that might have a chance, but they
did not participate in the last experiment.
73 De Mal/G3KEV


>
> *************************
> g3kev wrote:
>
> > Until we get some of the big antenna 160 metres operators in the
> > USA/CANADA and the UK plus the rest of EU interested in 136 khz the
> > chances of a qso are NIL across the ocean. These operators have the
> > facilities plus operating skills to achieve success if at all possible.
> > 73 de G3KEV with 158 countries worked on 160 metres. Just worked XZ0A on
> > 160 a few minutes ago after two calls. Antenna 3/8 wave on 160 and up
> > 100 ft.




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 28378 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2000 00:03:53 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Jan 2000 00:03:53 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EIDA-0002kE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:41:44 +0000
Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EID8-0002k9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:41:43 +0000
Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-118-78.bellatlantic.net [151.200.118.78]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA05967; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:41:23 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <3891FF53.AFDC897A@bellatlantic.net>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:42:59 -0500
From: "Andre' Kesteloot" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47  (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Mitch Powell" 
Cc: "RSGB-LF" , "lf, AMRAD" 
Subject: LF: Re: SLOW WA2XTF/12
References: <200001281552.KAA19794@mail6.bellatlantic.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Congratulations, Mitch !  (This is such good news that I am sending a
copy of
your message to the rsgb_lf reflector and our own lf@amrad.org
reflector :-)
If you can hear it, imagine how far other people should be able to
"see" it.
73
Andre' N4ICK
***********************************
Mitch Powell wrote:

> Good morning Andre:
> Friday (10 AM) and WA2XTF/12 is loud and clear into London Ontario.
> Temp about -10C, crystal clear blue sky- and hearing the slow speed CW
> (audio).
> Would be 100 percent for QSO quality - and I have on tape,  but not
> nearly as exciting to listen to as  normal speed CW.
>
> FYI - normally I hear into the Northwest (YQ Fort Churchill on Hudson's Bay)
> and other stations at that distance this time of day. They are totally
> absent - and I am hearing stations
> more East - West from PEI/NS into central Manitoba.
>
> Noise level is zero - extremely quiet.
> Still listening at 10:45 AM (1545Z) and no change in signal level.
> I assume the snow cover enhances the radiation :-)
>
> 73 Mitch


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 28385 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2000 00:03:54 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Jan 2000 00:03:54 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EKbm-0003eB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:15:18 +0000
Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.157]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EKbk-0003e4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:15:17 +0000
Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-117-62.bellatlantic.net [151.200.117.62]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA26541; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 18:15:04 -0500 (EST)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <38920EA4.B3A3F5A9@bellatlantic.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:48:20 -0500
From: "Andre' Kesteloot" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47  (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Long integration times
References: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Klaus von der Heide wrote:

> [...]
> 2. The symbol rate is exactly  1 bit/s.  Starting every minute,
>     a constant random pattern of 60 bits is sent out.
>     Appropriate matched filters must be used at both ends.

That seems like a good idea. But just to start with, what about :
a)  a transmitter keyed "on" for 1 minute, then "off" for 1 minute for
instance.
b) using a GPS based frequency reference (described in QST , and
mentioned again recently on this reflector)
c) if the "on" period is 60 seconds long, even if our timing is off by a
few nanoseconds that should not matter, since the error, if derived from
GPS,  should not be cumulative
c) we could also add those into an accumulator, etc. and wait as many
days (months ?) as required.
After some preliminary success we could then go for more intricate
schemes.

> As I mentioned some weeks ago, phased array antennas
> at both ends would increase the signal by many dBs.

Should we consider several receiving stations, physically separated to
insure diversity reception, all listening to the same frequency, and
polling their resources afterwards?
73
Andre'  N4ICK





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 5286 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2000 00:27:05 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Jan 2000 00:27:05 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EI5g-0002eX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:34:00 +0000
Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EI5e-0002eS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:33:58 +0000
Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-118-78.bellatlantic.net [151.200.118.78]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA01132; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:33:41 -0500 (EST)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3891FD80.30660D9B@bellatlantic.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:35:13 -0500
From: "Andre' Kesteloot" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47  (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Re = pips
References:  <005701bf6981$37448bc0$2301a8c0@maly.gmc.net> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

"M.J.Powell" wrote:

> Would amateurs be allowed to relay the one second pips from time-signal
> stations?

even if we cannot transmit the pips themselves, we should be able to
synchronize our dots and dashes to them.
In fact using the 1-second pulses from GPS (already suggested by others) should
do the rick, it seems to me
Andre'



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 5295 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2000 00:27:06 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Jan 2000 00:27:06 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EH7E-0002DE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:31:32 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EH7D-0002D9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:31:31 +0000
Received: from [195.44.140.218] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EH76-0005j2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:31:25 +0000
Message-ID: <3891ED5C.713528D2@netscapeonline.co.uk>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:26:20 +0000
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic
References: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 



Klaus von der Heide wrote:

> Hello LF-Friends,
>
> the negative result of the recent transatlantic experiment only says
> that the usual ham methods for LF contacts are not adequate for a
> transatlantic distance. A weak signal never excludes information
> transmission, it only reduces the information bit rate. Why not try,
> as a first step, to get one single bit over the ocean?
> The communication theory says that BPSK is optimum, and a
> bandwidth considerably larger than the information bit rate is better
> than a small one.
>
> I therefore, propose the following experiment:
>
> 1. Both, transmitter and receiver, must be synchronized to an
>     atomic clock, i.e. all oscillators that determine the carrier
>     or the symbol rate. Especially the sampling frequency of
>     a DSP (not the processor clock) must be synchronized.
>     A soundcard normally cannot.
>
> 2. The symbol rate is exactly  1 bit/s.  Starting every minute,
>     a constant random pattern of 60 bits is sent out.
>     Appropriate matched filters must be used at both ends.
>
> 3. At the receiving end, a DSP adds the 60 new  values to
>     60 accumulators.
>
> 4. The contents of the accumulators is correlated with the
>     known random bit pattern. After many hours or days
>     (or years?) the correlation must become significant.
>
> 5. It is important to suppress the non-Gaussian noise as
>     good as possible before the data are accumulated.
>
> As I mentioned some weeks ago, phased array antennas
> at both ends would increase the signal by many dBs.
> There isn't any dought that hams can cross information
> over the atlantic. The minimum information of a ham QSO
> is 50 bits in either direction. The open questions only is:
> Is the possible information bit rate  1 bit per day  or is it
> 1 bit per 5 minutes  or in other words: can a QSO run
> within 10 hours or can it definitely not.
>
> 73 de Klaus, DJ5HG

Good idea Klaus. let me know when you want to start. But would it not be
more simple to send some slow dashes on a specific frequency . Each
amateur participating would have a time slot.
Amateur 1 on the hour commences dashes of an agreed on/off period for 5
minutes. Then a silent period of 5 minutes to avoid confusion with the
next participant.
Amateur 2 starts at H+10 for 5 minutes then 5 minutes silence
Amateur 3     "         H+20 for 5 minutes then 5 minutes silence etc

Time needs to be fairly accurate but no atomic standard is necessary and
all would conform to the same dash duration and off period.
Callsign at normal speed for ID purposes sent immediately after the 5 min
acty period.
Keep it simple.
de G3KEV






From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 10491 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2000 03:04:35 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Jan 2000 03:04:35 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EO1O-0005AN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 02:53:58 +0000
Received: from host.king.igs.net ([216.58.2.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EO1M-0005AI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 02:53:57 +0000
Received: from server1 (ttyC00.king.igs.net [216.58.2.162]) by host.king.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id VAA52653 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:53:49 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kayser@king.igs.net)
Message-ID: <002701bf6a04$0996bb70$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca>
From: "Larry Kayser" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: GPS Timing is not difficult
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:52:49 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Greetings all:

I have been using the GPS data via an old Garmin OEM receiver for some time
now to trigger accurate time chirps on a LDE experiment I run here.

First you program the receiver to send only this data stream, GPRMC.

Then you look for the date and time of the second before you want to begin
transmitting.  When you see the next "$" (dollar sign character) drop into
the transmit sequence.  The offset, a small number of Milliseconds, will be
a constant offset.

For one or more minute transmission periods the error is trivial.

I have had no problems with the GPS receiver being bothered by high power
RF, nor have I had many periods when the GPS dropped out of sync even though
part of the sky at my transmit location is obscured.

The OEM GPS receivers were quite inexpensive a while back, but I see new GPS
receivers with a data connection now for under $100. US$.

Good Luck

Larry
VA3LK





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 14848 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2000 08:22:04 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Jan 2000 08:22:04 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ET1N-00077H-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:14:17 +0000
Received: from mb09.swip.net ([193.12.122.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ET1M-00077C-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:14:16 +0000
Received: from win95 (d212-151-91-151.swipnet.se [212.151.91.151])          by mb09.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP          id JAA15195 for ;          Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:14:05 +0100 (MET)
Message-ID: <000d01bf6a31$3bf336c0$975b97d4@win95.swipnet.se>
From: "Christer Andersson" 
To: "RSGB LF group" 
Subject: LF: 8 kHz loading coil
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:17:06 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hello (V)LF experimenters,

I have an idea of resonating my existing vertical on 8 kHz.
Is there a practical way to construct a 600 mH loading coil, withstanding 3-4 A and high voltage?
Any *large* toroids on the market?'

/Christer
sm6pxj




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 4420 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2000 08:45:11 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Jan 2000 08:45:11 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ETLi-0007DI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:35:18 +0000
Received: from mta1-gui.server.ntli.net ([194.168.54.142] helo=mta1-svc.virgin.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ETLh-0007DD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:35:17 +0000
Received: from virgin.net ([194.168.120.8]) by mta1-svc.virgin.net         (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP         id <20000129083612.FSSK8811.mta1-svc.virgin.net@virgin.net>;         Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:36:12 +0000
Message-ID: <3892A61A.C049A749@virgin.net>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:34:34 +0000
From: "Stewart Bryant" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: .
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Long integration times
References:  <38920EA4.B3A3F5A9@bellatlantic.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

For some time I have been thinking of setting up a remote receiver
in a quite location linked back to a more conveniently located
transmitter location. This would be an interesting extension. There
are however some licensing issues.

The obvious first stage would be to use a radio link, but that would
require licensing. Unfortunately the obvious band to use would be
70cms (quiet, low occupancy, reasonable range cheap equipment)
but it will be very difficult to get a permit, and then on top of that
an NoV will be required to relay the signals.

The alternative would be to use the Internet or the telephone, but
ironically our administration which is ostensibly promoting the linking
of amateur radio and the Internet has just changed our license to
require government approval to connect our stations to an public
network.

One approach that we could take is to record the sampled signals
for a long period with GPS timing markers, and post analyse. There
may be some stuff we can borrow from the SETI folks here.

One further thought. Perhaps we could use one of the powerful
signals in or near the band as our reference, synchronising to
their modulation. There would be a phase error, but we should be
able to compensate for that.

73

Stewart G3YSX

Andre' Kesteloot wrote:

> Klaus von der Heide wrote:
>
> > [...]
> > 2. The symbol rate is exactly  1 bit/s.  Starting every minute,
> >     a constant random pattern of 60 bits is sent out.
> >     Appropriate matched filters must be used at both ends.
>
> That seems like a good idea. But just to start with, what about :
> a)  a transmitter keyed "on" for 1 minute, then "off" for 1 minute for
> instance.
> b) using a GPS based frequency reference (described in QST , and
> mentioned again recently on this reflector)
> c) if the "on" period is 60 seconds long, even if our timing is off by a
> few nanoseconds that should not matter, since the error, if derived from
> GPS,  should not be cumulative
> c) we could also add those into an accumulator, etc. and wait as many
> days (months ?) as required.
> After some preliminary success we could then go for more intricate
> schemes.
>
> > As I mentioned some weeks ago, phased array antennas
> > at both ends would increase the signal by many dBs.
>
> Should we consider several receiving stations, physically separated to
> insure diversity reception, all listening to the same frequency, and
> polling their resources afterwards?
> 73
> Andre'  N4ICK



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 16399 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2000 10:40:30 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Jan 2000 10:40:30 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EVDe-0007wz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:35:06 +0000
Received: from [195.166.128.23] (helo=merlins.force9.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EVDc-0007wu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:35:04 +0000
Received: (qmail 23166 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2000 10:34:59 -0000
Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by merlins.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Jan 2000 10:34:59 -0000
Received: (qmail 1685 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2000 10:34:58 -0000
Received: from 223.3b-01.quay.dial.plus.net.uk (HELO main) (212.159.122.223) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Jan 2000 10:34:58 -0000
Message-ID: <002101bf6a45$28bb1460$0600a8c0@main>
From: "Dave" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
References:  <3891F5E2.90C31C27@bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: LF: Selective Level Meter, W&G AT-611, info?
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:39:40 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 



> Tom Boucher wrote:
>
> > Another use for old toothbrushes??
>
> A good LF operator should always keep a few old toothbrushes around, just
in case
> :-)
> Andre'
>

There's a chance to see an old toothbrush in action in Graham's article in
the RadCom this month.......

73, Dave G3YXM.



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 4246 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2000 13:30:28 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Jan 2000 13:30:28 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EXrx-0000WE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:24:53 +0000
Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EXrw-0000W9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:24:52 +0000
Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-117-146.bellatlantic.net [151.200.117.146]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA01807; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:24:36 -0500 (EST)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3892EA3F.1B40646C@bellatlantic.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:25:19 -0500
From: "Andre' Kesteloot" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47  (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Graham and Toothbrushes
References:  <3891F5E2.90C31C27@bellatlantic.net> <002101bf6a45$28bb1460$0600a8c0@main>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Dave G3YXM wrote:

> There's a chance to see an old toothbrush in action in Graham's article in
> the RadCom this month.......

Breathlessly awaiting the arrival of the postman with my copy of RadCom  :-)
Andre'




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 4582 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2000 13:33:50 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Jan 2000 13:33:50 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EXs7-0000WL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:25:03 +0000
Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.41] helo=pyyhe.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EXs5-0000WG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:25:02 +0000
Received: from DCXLIII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi (DCXLIII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.74.25.43]) by pyyhe.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA06800 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:35:29 +0200 (EET)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
From: "Paul Keinanen" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Long integration times
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:26:50 +0200
Message-ID: 
References:  <38920EA4.B3A3F5A9@bellatlantic.net> <3892A61A.C049A749@virgin.net>
In-reply-to: <3892A61A.C049A749@virgin.net>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

On Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:34:34 +0000, Stewart Bryant
 wrote:

>For some time I have been thinking of setting up a remote receiver
>in a quite location linked back to a more conveniently located
>transmitter location. This would be an interesting extension. There
>are however some licensing issues.
>
>The obvious first stage would be to use a radio link, but that would
>require licensing. Unfortunately the obvious band to use would be
>70cms (quiet, low occupancy, reasonable range cheap equipment)
>but it will be very difficult to get a permit, and then on top of that
>an NoV will be required to relay the signals.
>
>The alternative would be to use the Internet or the telephone, but
>ironically our administration which is ostensibly promoting the linking
>of amateur radio and the Internet has just changed our license to
>require government approval to connect our stations to an public
>network.

I have not seen the wording of your regulations, so this is just a
guess, but did't you say you only wanted to move the receiver to a
remote location. Assume that you have connected the receiver to a
modified answering machine and you are calling your answering machine
to listen to the signal and tune the receiver using the answering
machine control functions. I don't understand how that remote receiver
could be considered an amateur radio station (although the receiver
can tune one or more amateur bands) since no transmitter is present at
the remote location. 

There may be regulations against connected modified answering machines
to the telephone network, but a computer with a receiver and auto
answer modem could be constructed from type approved parts, but
unfortunately, after introduction of the computer to a quiet place, it
would no longer be a quiet place :-).


>One approach that we could take is to record the sampled signals
>for a long period with GPS timing markers, and post analyse. There
>may be some stuff we can borrow from the SETI folks here.

If you have two or more reception sites, you could do some aperture
synthesis by postprocessing received data in a similar way as radio
telescopes are used in VLBI. This requires accurate timing marks at
each receiver site in order to generate various antenna patterns. A
long time ago, there was a long discussion in some sci.space...
newsgroup with the title "Amateur VLBI" or something similar about the
feasibility of establishing a continent wide VLBI network to get some
usable angular resolution for upper HF/VHF with small backyard
antennas.

The problem with only a few (2-3) antennas several wavelength distance
from each other is that it will produce a combined radiation pattern
with a lot of narrow "fingers", i.e. several very narrow peaks and
nulls in the radiation pattern. With more stations, the undesired
peaks can be suppressed and only a single strong and narrow peak will
remain. Unfortunately this requires a lot of stations. 

In VLBI, the rotation of the Earth will constantly change the
positions relative to the source and assuming the emission of the
source does not change, the new relative position is considered a new
synthesised station and with properly phase and amplitude settings the
received signal is added into the correlator.

For LF reception and beam synthesis, there is not much point in having
very narrow beams, so several stations within a 10 km radius could be
used to generate  a beam of about 5 degrees, with a radical reduction
of (far field) noise, mainly QRN, coming from other direction, thus
increasing the SNR. With such a small geographical area, synchro-
nisation would not bee too difficult, even the power grid or a local
TV station would be sufficient to provide common phase reference to
all receivers. For larger geographical areas any geostationary TV-
transponder visible on all ground stations could be used.

With the received signal recorded on one channel of the sound card and
the reference signal on the other channel, there is no need to
synchronise the sampling rate at each station, thus existing hardware
can be used.

While most of these ideas above are not feasible in practice, I hope
they will inspire someone else to find more practical solutions.

Paul OH3LWR
 




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 21439 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2000 13:36:15 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Jan 2000 13:36:15 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EXv3-0000Wg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:28:05 +0000
Received: from mailout03.sul.t-online.de ([194.25.134.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EXv2-0000Wb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:28:04 +0000
Received: from fwd05.sul.t-online.de  by mailout03.sul.t-online.de with smtp  id 12EXux-000503-00; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 14:27:59 +0100
Received: from  (087321565-0001@[62.158.202.6]) by fwd05.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 12EXur-0iDZbcC; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 14:27:53 +0100
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
References: <000d01bf6a31$3bf336c0$975b97d4@win95.swipnet.se>
Subject: Re: LF: 8 kHz loading coil
X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 14:27:53 +0100
Message-ID: <12EXur-0iDZbcC@fwd05.sul.t-online.de>
X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-dialin.net
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

I would not use toroids for high power transmitting, just air coils.

73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB 

Christer Andersson schrieb:
> Hello (V)LF experimenters,
>
> I have an idea of resonating my existing vertical on 8 kHz.
> Is there a practical way to construct a 600 mH loading coil, withstanding 3-4
>  A and high voltage?
> Any *large* toroids on the market?'
>
> /Christer
> sm6pxj
>
>
>



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 18225 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2000 20:09:58 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Jan 2000 20:09:58 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ee4e-00034E-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:02:24 +0000
Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Ee4d-000346-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:02:23 +0000
Received: from [202.27.181.210] by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz         (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP         id <20000129200159.LAQV3144.mta3-rme@[202.27.181.210]>         for ;         Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:01:59 +1300
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <389346D5.4D3B@xtra.co.nz>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:00:21 +1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
From: "vernall" 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA  (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: 8 kHz loading coil
References: <000d01bf6a31$3bf336c0$975b97d4@win95.swipnet.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Christer Andersson wrote:
> 
> Hello (V)LF experimenters,
> 
> I have an idea of resonating my existing vertical on 8 kHz.
> Is there a practical way to construct a 600 mH loading coil, withstanding 3-4 A and high voltage?
> Any *large* toroids on the market?'
> 
> /Christer
> sm6pxj

How about using salvaged cores from television line output
transformers?  I can confirm they work well at 180 kHz, even they were
intended for LOPT use around 15 kHz.  If required, use several cores
side by side to get a higher power rating (as do several ZLs).  I would
also recommend a moderate air gap to assist with linear performance. 
Thin cardboard about the same type as a QSL card is a starting point for
gapping cores :)

Regards,

Bob ZL2CA



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 6873 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2000 05:19:32 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jan 2000 05:19:32 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Emd9-0006gf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 05:10:35 +0000
Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Emd7-0006ga-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 05:10:33 +0000
Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-111-54.bellatlantic.net [151.200.111.54]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA24121; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:10:21 -0500 (EST)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3893C826.E82EC2FD@bellatlantic.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:12:06 -0500
From: "Andre' Kesteloot" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47  (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Rsgb_lf_group" 
Cc: "Richard Goodman" 
Subject: LF: DCF39 seen in the US?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Gentlemen,
I have received from WA3USG a 1MB file that includes several
snapsshots taken by Richard Goodman WA3USG showing what could well be
a DCF trace.
I cannot send that 1Meg file to the rsgb_lf reflector, obviously.
Who of you is conversant enough with DCF traces to look at those
snapshots? Please send me directly you e-mail address and I shall
forward you the snapshots for your inspection and comments
73
Andre'



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 580 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2000 07:46:50 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jan 2000 07:46:50 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Eoyz-0007Wa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 07:41:17 +0000
Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Eoyy-0007WV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 07:41:17 +0000
Received: from oemcomputer (man-064.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.41.79]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA13682 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 07:41:10 GMT
Message-ID: <000001bf6af3$21ac4b40$4f29f7c2@oemcomputer>
From: "John Rabson" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
References: <000d01bf6a31$3bf336c0$975b97d4@win95.swipnet.se>
Subject: LF: Re: 8 kHz loading coil
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:15:49 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Christer,

With the figures you give I estimate you will be getting about 100 KV across
the inductor. An air-cored coil , of substantial size, would seem to be the
best way of doing things.

By the way, in the early days of Rugby Radio (GBR) on 16 kHz they had some
trouble with their loading coil . It appears that it overheated, and set
fire to the wooden building in which it was housed!

73
John Rabson G3PAI

----- Original Message -----
From: Christer Andersson 
To: RSGB LF group 
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 8:17 AM
Subject: LF: 8 kHz loading coil


> Hello (V)LF experimenters,
>
> I have an idea of resonating my existing vertical on 8 kHz.
> Is there a practical way to construct a 600 mH loading coil, withstanding
3-4 A and high voltage?
> Any *large* toroids on the market?'
>
> /Christer
> sm6pxj
>
>
>
>



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 20221 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2000 08:57:36 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jan 2000 08:57:36 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Eq39-00083K-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:49:39 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.53] helo=pefletti.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Eq38-00083F-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:49:38 +0000
X-Priority: 3
Received: from default (CMXL.rdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.136.40]) by pefletti.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA11803 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:49:32 +0200 (EET)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000130105026.008412e0@laatikko.saunalahti.fi>
X-Sender: oh2lx@laatikko.saunalahti.fi (Unverified)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32)
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:50:26 +0200
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= 
Subject: LF: Signal Strength Measurements by OH2LX
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Measurements of UK Decca's and some other stations :
---------------------------------------------------------
Day -----------------   25Jan  26Jan  27Jan  28Jan  29Jan
Time,UTC ------------   2200-  2135-  2145-  2150-  2200
---------------------------------------------------------
127.8 (6C), 1435, 280,  -107   -106   -110   -109   -109
---------------------------------------------------------
126.7 (2A), 1565, 269,  -106   -107   -108   -107   -109
---------------------------------------------------------
128.5 (8E), 1766, 276,  -112   -106   -108   -105   -106  
---------------------------------------------------------
127.0 (3B), 1871, 257,  -108   -109   -106   -109   -107
---------------------------------------------------------
127.5 (5B), 1890, 247,  -110   -109   -102   -104   -106
---------------------------------------------------------
128.2 (7D), 2060, 267,  -112   -114   -120   -119   -118
---------------------------------------------------------
126.4 (1B), 2282, 253,  -116   -114   -115   -113   -116
---------------------------------------------------------
kHz    Ch   d,km  AZI     Indicated ESH2 input, dBmW
---------------------------------------------------------
128.93 ref, 1553, 228,   -85    -80    -75    -77    -79
---------------------------------------------------------
135.8  SXV  2490, 182,  -108   -113   -107   -108   -109
     
---------------------------------------------------------
137.0  CFH  5750, 295,  -124    Nil   -125   -124   -125
---------------------------------------------------------
SM6PXJ       630, 265,    -    -115   -115     -    -119      
---------------------------------------------------------
OG5UFO       152, 321     -    -111*  -106   -110   -107
---------------------------------------------------------
* = OG5UFO fades a lot (-106...-122) (d = 152 km) !!!
---------------------------------------------------------
28 Jan: OZ8NJ -125; DJ9IE -124; OH1BS -120; OH3LYG -101
---------------------------------------------------------
28 Jan: 2135z OH1BS wkg OH1LT (OH1LT not heard at all)
---------------------------------------------------------
(R&S ESH2/---- 10m coax---/1:10/---15m wire-----):
Noise level with antenna: with 200Hz IF BandWidth: 
-24..-22 dB(uV), -131..-129dBmW (varies w qrm etc)
---------------------------------------------------------
End of message of 30 Jan 2000, 0850 UTC, from OH2LX




----------------------------------------------------------
V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland
------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------
E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 19821 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2000 13:30:15 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jan 2000 13:30:15 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EuJA-0001Da-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:22:28 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EuJ9-0001DV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:22:27 +0000
Received: from [195.44.222.18] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EuIz-0006LL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:22:17 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3894379A.FC095837@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:07:38 +0000
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "rsgb" 
Subject: LF: OE ACTY
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 


OE5ODL has his antennas up again after all the storms damage. I worked
him a few minutes ago at 559 each way. He is putting out a nice signal
into the UK.
Did not hear anyone else calling him although he was calling CQ for a
while.
73 De Mal/G3KEV






From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 29290 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2000 14:01:35 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jan 2000 14:01:35 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Euo5-0001Q5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:54:25 +0000
Received: from mta2-gui.server.ntli.net ([194.168.54.143] helo=mta2-svc.virgin.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Euo4-0001Q0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:54:24 +0000
Received: from virgin.net ([194.168.59.122]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net         (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP         id <20000130135320.BUBJ18331.mta2-svc.virgin.net@virgin.net>;         Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:53:20 +0000
Message-ID: <38944254.AFBA7C45@virgin.net>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:53:24 +0000
From: "Stewart Bryant" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: .
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: DCF39 seen in the US?
References: <3893C826.E82EC2FD@bellatlantic.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Andre - why not post it on a web site?

Stewart

Andre' Kesteloot wrote:

> Gentlemen,
> I have received from WA3USG a 1MB file that includes several
> snapsshots taken by Richard Goodman WA3USG showing what could well be
> a DCF trace.
> I cannot send that 1Meg file to the rsgb_lf reflector, obviously.
> Who of you is conversant enough with DCF traces to look at those
> snapshots? Please send me directly you e-mail address and I shall
> forward you the snapshots for your inspection and comments
> 73
> Andre'



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 26951 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2000 15:06:09 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jan 2000 15:06:09 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Evm5-0001jQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 14:56:25 +0000
Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Evm4-0001jL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 14:56:24 +0000
Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-114-150.bellatlantic.net [151.200.114.150]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA02311; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:56:12 -0500 (EST)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <38944E72.54AAF1AD@bellatlantic.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:45:06 -0500
From: "Andre' Kesteloot" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47  (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: DCF39 seen in the US?
References: <3893C826.E82EC2FD@bellatlantic.net> <38944254.AFBA7C45@virgin.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hello Stewart
I can do that if / once the signal has been confirmed as being DCF
73
Andre'

Stewart Bryant wrote:

> Andre - why not post it on a web site?





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 635 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2000 15:29:36 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jan 2000 15:29:36 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EwAM-0001wm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 15:21:30 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EwAM-0001wh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 15:21:30 +0000
X-Priority: 3
Received: from pickmere.demon.co.uk ([158.152.117.143]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12EwAG-000Gn3-0Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 15:21:25 +0000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: 
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:40:52 +0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "M.J.Powell" 
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 8 kHz loading coil
References: <000d01bf6a31$3bf336c0$975b97d4@win95.swipnet.se><000001bf6af3$21ac4b40$4f29f7c2@oemcomputer>
In-reply-to: <000001bf6af3$21ac4b40$4f29f7c2@oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

In message <000001bf6af3$21ac4b40$4f29f7c2@oemcomputer>, John Rabson
 writes
>Christer,
>
>With the figures you give I estimate you will be getting about 100 KV across
>the inductor. An air-cored coil , of substantial size, would seem to be the
>best way of doing things.
>
>By the way, in the early days of Rugby Radio (GBR) on 16 kHz they had some
>trouble with their loading coil . It appears that it overheated, and set
>fire to the wooden building in which it was housed!

I visited Rugby in about 1951. From the loading coil the feeder cable
ran up though a circular window high up in the gable end. The clearance
was about 2 feet but the wooden surround was burned and charred from
flash over. When the Tx was keyed you could see the loading coil flex
and jerk!


Mike
-- 
M.J.Powell


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 15997 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2000 16:55:50 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jan 2000 16:55:50 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ExWU-0002b0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:48:26 +0000
Received: from mta00.talk21.com ([62.172.192.40] helo=t21mta00-app.talk21.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ExWT-0002W5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:48:25 +0000
Received: from dave ([213.1.41.49]) by t21mta00-app.talk21.com         (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP         id <20000130164615.CPXZ26117.t21mta00-app.talk21.com@dave>         for ;         Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:46:15 +0000
Message-ID: <001101bf6b41$c7c3afc0$312901d5@dave>
From: "Dave Sergeant" 
To: "rsgb_lf_group" 
Subject: LF: re: 8kHz coils
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:47:59 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

>From Dave G3YMC

Bob ZL2CA mentions the use of TV line output transformer cores for use as
loading cores.  In my TV business I replace quite a number of transformers,
but to date I have tended to discard them.  If there is demand I could save
them.

With modern split diode line transformers the ferrite core is frequently not
very easy to remove and so may not always be useable.  In the old days it
was much easier!

Not much activity here this weekend.  Strong winds were causing the
resonance of the loop to change resulting in dangerously fluctuating SWR.
But there appears to have been little activity anyway.

Cheers Dave
dsergeant@iee.org
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd






From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 17168 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2000 18:44:52 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jan 2000 18:44:52 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EzDe-0003JR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 18:37:06 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EzDd-0003JM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 18:37:05 +0000
Received: from as24-s15-145-13.cwci.net ([195.44.145.13] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12EzDY-00065L-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 18:37:00 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3894815D.325A085E@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 18:22:21 +0000
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "rsgb" 
Subject: LF: acty
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

 Lots of acty today Sunday.  Worked IK5ZPV 579 each way. OE5ODL 559 each
way, OG5UFO 529/559.  Heard DL/G/GM but did not call except to work
G3DQC to give him a report.
Seen some acty also on LMCW. Switched off at 1430 utc to work other
bands.
Aussi/OE5ODL was a nice 559 all morn/afternoon but no one else seemed to
hear him.
Worked OG5UFO yesterday during contest on 160 metres, he had a big
signal s9 plus.
Very strong winds, gale force this weekend, gusting up to 80 mph at this
qth,  expect some had their antennas blown away in the UK.
73 de Mal/G3KEV





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 19004 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2000 21:22:29 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jan 2000 21:22:29 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12F1Zf-0004JE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:07:59 +0000
Received: from cask.force9.net ([195.166.128.29]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12F1Ze-0004J9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:07:58 +0000
Received: (qmail 417 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2000 21:07:51 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO main) (212.159.122.24) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2000 21:07:51 -0000
Message-ID: <023f01bf6b66$bb7b00e0$0600a8c0@main>
From: "Dave" 
To: "LF Group" 
Subject: LF: 73kHz
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:08:40 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Dear all,

Just a reminder.
If Rugby Radio runs true to form, the 73.3kHz tx and all its lovely
sidebands will be off for maintenance on Tuesday.
It being the first Tuesday in February.
If anyone is interested, I can be QRV around 8am, or earlier if needed. It
all depends when the tx shuts down.
What say?

73. Dave, G3YXM.



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 12266 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2000 21:53:31 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jan 2000 21:53:31 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12F24k-0004Vk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:40:06 +0000
Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.157]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12F24j-0004Vf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:40:05 +0000
Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-118-13.bellatlantic.net [151.200.118.13]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA03870; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:39:54 -0500 (EST)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3894AFDB.3A3856FF@bellatlantic.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:40:43 -0500
From: "Andre' Kesteloot" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47  (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Rsgb_lf_group" , 
 "lf-amrad" 
Cc: nzart@clear.net.nz
Subject: LF: Galveston !
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

LF Friends,

In the weighty matter of an eventual transatlantic LF qso, I believe
we can derive much succor from an article that appeared in the
November-December issue of  "Break-In", the amateur radio publication
of New Zealan's NZART.

The article, on page 24, describes how GLS, a 2 kilowatt aero-beacon
installed in Galveston Texas, is being heard on 206 KHz in ZL-land.
Galveston is located on the coast of the Gulf of Mexico.  Several
amateurs, amongst whom ZL1PW, ZL4OL and ZL3VN, have logged the
Galveston beacon.
Distance from Galveston to Wellington is about 12,100 kilometers

(Hearty congratulations to our New Zealand colleagues for their work)

73
Andre' N4ICK



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 17235 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2000 22:22:12 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jan 2000 22:22:12 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12F2cT-0004jG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:14:57 +0000
Received: from smtper.inrete.it ([212.110.32.184] helo=mailer.inrete.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12F2cS-0004jB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:14:56 +0000
Received: from cel266 (nr35-140.inrete.it [212.110.35.140]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA04136 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 23:14:37 +0100
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 23:14:37 +0100
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <4.1.20000130230300.00abfe20@mailer.inrete.it>
X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1
Data: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 23:13:09 +0100
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "M. Bruno" 
Subject: Re: LF: DCF39 seen in the US?
In-reply-to: <38944E72.54AAF1AD@bellatlantic.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

In 23.38 30/01/00 , hai scritto:
>Hello Stewart
>I can do that if / once the signal has been confirmed as being DCF
>73
>Andre'
>
>Stewart Bryant wrote:
>
>> Andre - why not post it on a web site?
>
>
>
André,

please send me the file. I exchanged similar snapshots with Bob Riese, K3DJC;
it seems to me that he receives the right signal.

A personal opinion: it will be very difficult to decide if a signal is or not
DCF39,
since if you look at it in a wideband mode, the signal will be buried in the
noise; if you look at the carrier on 138.830 with an high-resolution
spectrogram
you will see only a carrier. The best ID for me will be the exact frequency.
Try having a signal generator exactly 10 Hz away, and measure the exact
frequency shift on the spectrogram. If you have a decent timebase, with 1 ppm
precision, you will see the DCF39 carrier on the right frequency +/- 0.1 Hz.
This, coupled with the day/night variations in the signal stenght, may be a 
good confirmation that you are looking to the right signal and not a local one.

In any case my snapshot of Spectran screen with the DCF39 signal received
at 600 km via sky wave is available for comparisons.


Marco Bruno - IK1ODO
spin@inrete.it

SPIN Electronics - www.spin-it.com



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 22452 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2000 22:29:41 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jan 2000 22:29:41 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12F2hO-0004p5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:20:02 +0000
Received: from cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.172]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12F2hN-0004of-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:20:01 +0000
Received: from modem-114.belegund.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.138.114] helo=lvm) by cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12F2hH-0007Q6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:19:55 +0000
Message-ID: <000201bf6b70$20ea5300$728a883e@lvm>
From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" 
To: "rsgb lf group" 
Subject: LF: F6NM/DFCW
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:17:46 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit










Many thanks for QSO today.Sorry about my slow 
operating but this was my first QSO in this mode! You had a very clear and 
readable signal, only problem I find visual CW difficult to read. I hope to work 
you again.73 Laurie. 


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 4695 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2000 22:34:06 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jan 2000 22:34:06 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12F2kS-0004pQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:23:12 +0000
Received: from praseodumium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12F2kQ-0004pL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:23:11 +0000
Received: from [213.1.132.232] (helo=default) by praseodumium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12F2kL-0005kX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:23:06 +0000
Message-ID: <000401bf6b70$01bf80e0$e88401d5@default>
From: "Alan Melia" 
To: "rsgb_lf_group" 
Subject: LF: DX Cluster posting at GB7DXM for 29/30 Jan
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:02:52 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Did anyone work the VE ???..........................only joking Folks!
The Cluster postings are mostly a DL1SAN benefit this week ....thanks Wolf
for the efforts.

It is certainly rare now to switch on and not hear a signal on 136. After
midnight Fri/Sat. PA0LEG and DJ9IE were pounding away, both audible on the
speaker in 2.5kHz. Saturday morning seemed a little quieter than usual, I
guess the wind effects made some a little cautious. I saw a new QRS call
sign for me at 1403z when G3CCH sent a couple of CQs on 137.66. With a
little bit of a problem....the 1st CQ at 1409 was an 'FQ' on my screen...but
other wise good 'O' copy with my loop NW/SE.
Just caught the end of Dave G3YXM working ??5ODL later on manual CW. I had a
trace on the waterfall but did not have time to tweak the loop direction.
Dash it missed another new one. The signal would be 'O' on QRS even to my
indoor loop.
Sunday
QRS calls from Dave G0MRF (0735z) and DFCW from ON4ZK (0817z), I heard Dave
G3YXM work IK5ZPVat 1026 on manual morse. I could see a good trace from
Valerio on the waterfall but my local noise level just defeated copy here
(More wire ....Graham!!). Hard Luck Derek G3GRO, you were unfortunately
transmitting at the same time as Valerio.

Lawrie G3AQC was testing with a nice DFCW signal in the afternoon and
collected F6NM, Markus, to give him his 1st G station. Markus was 'O' with a
struggle here and I think Lawrie lost him toward the end as he transmit his
final over before Markus had signed. Dont know what Markus locator was. I
tried to move the loop but lost him so I suspect he is in eastern France.
Nice one Lawrie and thanks for another country heard.

Cluster spots this week :-
G3NYK de GB7DXM    30-Jan-2000 2040Z    Type H or ? for help >
   136.6  MM0ALM   30-Jan-2000 1959Z  329                         
   136.6  HB9DCE    30-Jan-2000 1943Z  599                         
   136.7  IK5ZPV      30-Jan-2000 1637Z  439 cq

   136.7  OE5ODL    30-Jan-2000 1632Z  559                         
   136.6  G3KEV      30-Jan-2000 1125Z  229                         
   136.7  OE5EEP    29-Jan-2000 1238Z  539                         
   136.7  DJ9IE         29-Jan-2000 1004Z  559

   136.4  DJ1ZB        29-Jan-2000 0853Z  579 cq

   136.2  HB2ASB     27-Jan-2000 1907Z  599                         
   136.9  IK5ZPV       27-Jan-2000 1754Z  559 wkd

   136.9  DJ9IE         26-Jan-2000 1845Z  559

G3NYK de GB7DXM   30-Jan 2041Z >
  1800.0  PA0LEG    28-Jan-2000 2205Z  136.68kHz 419 500Hz bw >500km
  1800.0  PA0LEG    28-Jan-2000 2135Z  136.6 cq oz oh oe hb        
  1800.0  IK5ZPV      27-Jan-2000 1821Z    137 Khz CQ agn

G3NYK de GB7DXM   30-Jan 2043Z >

73 de Alan G3NYK  JO02PB
Alan.Melia@btinternet.com




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 1684 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2000 23:11:33 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jan 2000 23:11:33 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12F3La-00054m-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 23:01:34 +0000
Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12F3LZ-00054h-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 23:01:33 +0000
Received: from rgcomms.demon.co.uk ([193.237.77.63] helo=G) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12F3LU-0007F4-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 23:01:28 +0000
From: "Graham Phillips" 
To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group" 
Subject: LF: 73 kHz Activity
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:59:46 -0000
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

I intend to activate the station on 73 kHz, on Tuesday  morning in the hope
that Rugby will be QRT for housekeeping.  I would like to work a few more
stations, before we loose the band so if anyone can come on, please contact
me, via E-Mail or my Home telephone number is :
01784 245117.

Thanks,
73 de Graham B. Phillips.  G3XTZ.



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 13110 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2000 02:49:10 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Jan 2000 02:49:10 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12F6mc-0006cV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 02:41:42 +0000
Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12F6mb-0006cQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 02:41:41 +0000
Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-117-56.bellatlantic.net [151.200.117.56]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA26050; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:41:25 -0500 (EST)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3894F6CA.3B6CDE7E@bellatlantic.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:43:23 -0500
From: "Andre' Kesteloot" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47  (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: DCF39 seen in the US?
References: <4.1.20000130230300.00abfe20@mailer.inrete.it>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

"M. Bruno" wrote:

> please send me the file. I exchanged similar snapshots with Bob Riese, K3DJC;
> it seems to me that he receives the right signal.

will be coming to you separately
Please send  your comments to lf@amrad.org
Andre'



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 17704 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2000 06:13:41 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Jan 2000 06:13:41 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12F9yd-0007zJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:06:19 +0000
Received: from as-img-4.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.147] helo=spamgaad.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12F9yc-0007zE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:06:18 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id BAA07380 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 01:05:43 -0500 (EST)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 01:05:18 -0500
From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Subject: LF: F6NM=DF6NM ? / DCF39 measurments
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Message-ID: <200001310105_MC2-9702-201C@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Disposition: inline
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Hello Laurie,

could it be that you worked DF6NM, Markus near Nuernberg (JN59NK)? I don'n
know if he regularely checks this reflector, but if you want to contact
him, his e-mail address is MarkusVester@aol.com.

Best 73

Geri, DK8KW (W1KW)
http://www.qru.de


P.S. The storm prevented me from erecting my 18m fibreglas-supported
umbrella antenna, so no activity from my side this weekend. I used the time
to build a solid 1m diameter untuned loop to do some calibrated
field-strength measurements. I will come up with some results, especially
on DCF39 (DBF39 or however the call is, in their test transmissions
parallel to the 129.1 kHz qrg they even use DCF49 ...) soon. In the moment
there is a discrepancy betwen the calculated field strength at my QTH and
my measurements of about 6 or 7 dB, so either the Burg transmitter has more
power than we expected or my measurments are nuts. 

For those of you who can read German: there is a homepage of the company
running that transmitter (http://www.efr.de) with some technical details
and  map depicting the expected field strength of both transmitter,
Mainflingen and Burg, in Germany.


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 7162 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2000 06:47:52 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Jan 2000 06:47:52 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FAWJ-0008BG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:41:07 +0000
Received: from smtp4.ihug.co.nz ([203.109.252.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FAWH-0008BB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:41:06 +0000
Received: from test (p29-max3.chc.ihug.co.nz [207.214.13.92]) by smtp4.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id TAA23627; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:40:53 +1300
Message-ID: <013701bf6bb6$9501b440$0200a8c0@test>
From: "Dave Brown" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Cc: "lowfer" 
References: <3894AFDB.3A3856FF@bellatlantic.net>
Subject: LF: Re: Galveston !
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:44:07 +1300
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Andre'
You might recall some comment I made recently on the rsgb lf reflector re
the GLS beacon. Most of the active LFers here in ZL have heard it.  Comes in
for a short time just before Galveston sunrise.  John KD4IDY had some
suggestions re its antenna but would be interesting to hear from someone who
has seen it.  Geri DK8KW is  going to have a look when over there late Feb
if he gets the time. I don't expect it's anything out of the ordinary for
NDB setups but would be nice to confirm.
Makes one wonder if the 'other pond' might be worth a try!
73
Dave
ZL3FJ




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 29828 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2000 10:31:41 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Jan 2000 10:31:41 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FDtc-00018n-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:17:24 +0000
Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FDta-00018i-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:17:23 +0000
Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12FDtt-00068k-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:17:42 +0000
Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:59:51 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
From: "Mike Dennison" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:59:49 -0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: Re: LF: 8 kHz loading coil
In-reply-to: <000d01bf6a31$3bf336c0$975b97d4@win95.swipnet.se>
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11)
X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq
Message-ID: 
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

> I have an idea of resonating my existing vertical on 8 kHz.
> Is there a practical way to construct a 600 mH loading coil, withstanding
> 3-4 A and high voltage? Any *large* toroids on the market?'
> /Christer
> sm6pxj

Are we locked into HF thinking here? Why not use an iron cored 
inductor such as the output transformer from a QRO valve audio 
amplifier? 


Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT)
http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 19683 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2000 11:13:45 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Jan 2000 11:13:45 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FEgJ-0001ZX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:07:43 +0000
Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FEgI-0001ZQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:07:42 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.8.) id l.55.18567c5 (3846) for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:06:56 -0500 (EST)
From: G0MRF@aol.com
Message-ID: <55.18567c5.25c6c6cf@aol.com>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:06:55 EST
Subject: Re: LF: DCF39 seen in the US?
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 137
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

In a message dated 1/30/00 10:20:17 GMT Standard Time, spin@inrete.it writes:

<< you will see only a carrier. The best ID for me will be the exact 
frequency.
 Try having a signal generator exactly 10 Hz away, and measure the exact
 frequency shift on the spectrogram. If you have a decent timebase, with 1 ppm
 precision, you will see the DCF39 carrier on the right frequency +/- 0.1 Hz.
  >>

Or, generate a calibration marker by using the second VFO tuned to WWVB on 
60.000kHz and switch between the two at the touch of a button. If the 
spectrogram traces line up...etc  etc.

David


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 8963 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2000 12:59:48 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Jan 2000 12:59:48 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FGG0-0002Dl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:48:40 +0000
Received: from mta2-gui.server.ntli.net ([194.168.54.143] helo=mta2-svc.virgin.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FGFy-0002Dg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:48:38 +0000
Received: from default ([62.252.40.95]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net         (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP         id <20000131124737.JZEC18331.mta2-svc.virgin.net@default>         for ;         Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:47:37 +0000
Message-ID: <003601bf6be9$84eade00$LocalHost@default>
From: "peter cleall" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Re: 73kHz
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:38:53 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Never previously considered listening to 73kHz due to the interference. Will
probably take a half day off work tomorrow and see what is happening.   who
will be txing on which modes and what frequencies??
thanks

peter G8AFN

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave 
To: LF Group 
Date: 30 January 2000 21:13
Subject: LF: 73kHz


>Dear all,
>
>Just a reminder.
>If Rugby Radio runs true to form, the 73.3kHz tx and all its lovely
>sidebands will be off for maintenance on Tuesday.
>It being the first Tuesday in February.
>If anyone is interested, I can be QRV around 8am, or earlier if needed. It
>all depends when the tx shuts down.
>What say?
>
>73. Dave, G3YXM.
>
>
>



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 13522 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2000 13:13:06 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Jan 2000 13:13:06 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FGVF-0002M3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:04:25 +0000
Received: from jazzfm.netcomuk.co.uk ([194.42.248.66]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FGVE-0002Lu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:04:25 +0000
Received: from jazzfm.com [192.168.102.5] by jazzfm.netcomuk.co.uk [127.0.0.1] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:03:29 +0000
Received: from JazzFM-Message_Server by jazzfm.com with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:04:02 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: 
X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:03:51 +0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
From: "Martin Charman" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: 73 kHz Activity
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Disposition: inline
X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Return-Path: Martin@jazzfm.com
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

I've got the day off work on Tuesday so let me know when you're likely to be on and I'll take a listen.
I suspect you won't hear my Watt or so of 73kHz but you never know!!

Martin G4FKK

>>> "Graham Phillips"  01/30 10:59 pm >>>
I intend to activate the station on 73 kHz, on Tuesday  morning in the hope
that Rugby will be QRT for housekeeping.  I would like to work a few more
stations, before we loose the band so if anyone can come on, please contact
me, via E-Mail or my Home telephone number is :
01784 245117.

Thanks,
73 de Graham B. Phillips.  G3XTZ.




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 28600 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2000 13:53:54 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Jan 2000 13:53:54 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FH8S-0002g5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:44:56 +0000
Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FH8P-0002g0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:44:53 +0000
Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12FH5o-00032s-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:42:12 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <9177.200001311349@gemini>
From: "James Moritz" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: University of Hertfordshire
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:49:40 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: LF: 73kHz on 1/2/2000
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11)
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Dear LF Group,

Re - 73kHz activity on 1st of Feb 

Have been very pressed for time lately, due to work deadlines, but 
should be able to manage a few hours tomorrow. I am now able to 
operate QRSS on either LF band, if required. Is there a consensus 
on a good time to get started?

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 6279 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2000 14:22:40 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Jan 2000 14:22:40 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FHYk-0002ue-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:12:06 +0000
Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FHYi-0002uZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:12:05 +0000
Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-118-197.bellatlantic.net [151.200.118.197]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA01382; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:11:46 -0500 (EST)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Message-ID: <3895989D.7DFDF622@bellatlantic.net>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:13:49 -0500
From: "Andre' Kesteloot" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47  (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: 8 kHz loading coil
References: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Good point. I still have somewhere some of those chokes that were used for
filtering plate voltages...
Andre' N4ICK
*******************************
Mike Dennison wrote:

> > I have an idea of resonating my existing vertical on 8 kHz.
> > Is there a practical way to construct a 600 mH loading coil, withstanding
> > 3-4 A and high voltage? Any *large* toroids on the market?'
> > /Christer
> > sm6pxj
>
> Are we locked into HF thinking here? Why not use an iron cored
> inductor such as the output transformer from a QRO valve audio
> amplifier?
>
> Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT)
> http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 17358 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2000 15:07:04 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Jan 2000 15:07:04 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FIAJ-0003FC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:50:55 +0000
Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FIAF-0003F7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:50:51 +0000
Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-118-197.bellatlantic.net [151.200.118.197]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA22287; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:50:30 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <3895A1B2.79F84DC4@bellatlantic.net>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:52:34 -0500
From: "Andre' Kesteloot" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47  (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Dave Brown" 
Cc: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "lowfer" , 
 "lf-amrad" ,
 "AMRAD Tacos" 
Subject: LF: Re: Galveston !
References: <3894AFDB.3A3856FF@bellatlantic.net> <013701bf6bb6$9501b440$0200a8c0@test>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

Dave Brown ZL3FJ wrote:

> Andre'
> You might recall some comment I made recently on the rsgb lf reflector re
> the GLS beacon. Most of the active LFers here in ZL have heard it.  Comes in
> for a short time just before Galveston sunrise.

which it very similar to when we (on the East Coast of the US ) hear the
European broadcasting stations on long waves (162 kHz, 183 kHz, etc.)

>  John KD4IDY had some
> suggestions re its antenna but would be interesting to hear from someone who
> has seen it.  Geri DK8KW is  going to have a look when over there late Feb
> if he gets the time. I don't expect it's anything out of the ordinary for
> NDB setups but would be nice to confirm.
> Makes one wonder if the 'other pond' might be worth a try!

of course it is ! We are working on it   :-)
73
Andre' N4ICK



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 14274 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2000 16:41:26 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Jan 2000 16:41:26 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FJkb-0003y6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:32:29 +0000
Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FJkX-0003y1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:32:26 +0000
Received: from as32-s15-148-163.cwci.net ([195.44.148.163] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FJkQ-0006OJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:32:19 +0000
Message-ID: <3895B8D2.32CBBF32@netscapeonline.co.uk>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:31:14 +0000
From: "g3kev" 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Organization: Netscape Online member
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk  (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: 8 kHz loading coil
References: <000d01bf6a31$3bf336c0$975b97d4@win95.swipnet.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 



Christer Andersson wrote:

> Hello (V)LF experimenters,
>
> I have an idea of resonating my existing vertical on 8 kHz.
> Is there a practical way to construct a 600 mH loading coil, withstanding 3-4 A and high voltage?
> Any *large* toroids on the market?'
>
> /Christer
> sm6pxj

Chris.
Look around for an old high power AM modulation transformer or choke. You might need a lot of them
!!!! otherwise air wound coils would probably better. LF toroids are a possibility for low power. Try
a mains variac as a substitute for a variometer !!!!! it might do something, maybe lossy at 8 khz.
G3KEV





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 29466 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2000 17:51:16 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Jan 2000 17:51:16 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FKpS-0004Ww-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:41:34 +0000
Received: from mta01.talk21.com ([62.172.192.171] helo=t21mta01-app.talk21.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FKpR-0004Wq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:41:33 +0000
Received: from dave ([213.1.57.220]) by t21mta01-app.talk21.com         (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP         id <20000131174414.KUJO1955.t21mta01-app.talk21.com@dave>         for ;         Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:44:14 +0000
Message-ID: <003d01bf6c12$5f4790c0$dc3901d5@dave>
From: "Dave Sergeant" 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
References: <023f01bf6b66$bb7b00e0$0600a8c0@main>
Subject: LF: Re: 73kHz
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:21:38 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

>From Dave G3YMC

Don't all get too excited about the prospect of Rugby being off Tuesday.
The 60kHz transmitter is indeed often off on the first Tuesday, but normally
not until at least 10am and for only a few hours.  In recent months the one
on 73.4 has not, as far as I can tell, been off at all.  It is very unlikely
it will be off as early as 8am and will always be back on before dusk.

Perhaps you should plan ahead to May, when Rugby does its annual
maintenance.  There is a good chance that the TXs will be off for longer
periods during that time, but only during the working daytime hours.  That
will be a good opportunity before we lose the band in June.

Sorry about the double posting yesterday.  One was sent using my alias
address and I assumed it would have bounced as I am not subscribed with that
address - for some reason it didn't!

73s Dave
dsergeant@iee.org
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 8103 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2000 18:00:21 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Jan 2000 18:00:21 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FKyj-0004dO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:51:09 +0000
Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FKyi-0004dJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:51:08 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id RAA01399 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:51:03 GMT
X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Message-ID: <2000013117505668199@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:50:56 GMT
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: "Peter Dodd" 
X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836
Subject: Re: LF: 8 kHz loading coil and 73kHz
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 
Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit


> > I have an idea of resonating my existing vertical on 8 kHz.
> > Is there a practical way to construct a 600 mH loading coil, withstanding
> > 3-4 A and high voltage? Any *large* toroids on the market?'
> > /Christer
> > sm6pxj

> Are we locked into HF thinking here? Why not use an iron cored 
> inductor such as the output transformer from a QRO valve audio 
> amplifier? 
> Mike, G3XDV 

Although an output transformer might be fine for a matching 
transformer it would not be suitable for a loading coil because of 
the high voltage across it. It might be more practical to use several 
coils in series with the lowest one being a variometer.

On 136kHz I now use a variometer and coil designed for 500kHz with 
the additional inductance mounted in a weather proof enclosure 
outside the shack.
On 73kHz I use the variometer and 136kHz loading inductance inside 
the shack with an additional inductance outside the shack, thereby 
spreading the voltage gradiant over this three-stage booster.
On 8 kHz this could be taken the necessary stages further.

Whichever way you play it you will need a lot of wire!

While on the subject of 73kHz I hope to be on tomorrow at the bottom 
of the band before 1000UTC




Regards, Peter, G3LDO









From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 28714 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2000 20:53:11 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Jan 2000 20:53:11 -0000
Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FNfY-0005ti-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:43:32 +0000
Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12FNfV-0005td-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:43:29 +0000
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.8.) id l.cb.170347a (3845) for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:42:45 -0500 (EST)
From: G0MRF@aol.com
Message-ID: 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:42:44 EST
Subject: LF: Inductance Measurement
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 137
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group
Sender: 

I''ve just completed building an inductance / capacitance meter and if anyone 
is looking for an accurate and versatile instrument, then this is it.

The L/C meter 2B by Neil Heckt is a PIC16C622 based meter that is available 
as a kit, ready built, or for those who are able,  can be home constructed 
after downloading the PIC code over the web. The kit includes a case and 
takes about 1.5hrs to complete.

The Meter is self calibrating and is typically 1% accurate.

Inductance range is from  1nH to 100mH   (almost good enough for 8kHz  Hi) or 
capacitance from 0.1pF to 1uF.

A novel feature is the ability to cancel out, or zero, the effects of the 
test leads prior to making measurements at the lower end of the range. 
Measurements are made at 750kHz 60kHz or 20kHz depending on value of the 
unknown component.

My kit was ordered over the net from Neil's base in Auburn, Washington USA 
and arrived in a few days. They are also available in the UK from Mainline

Details at         http://www.aade.com

73

David