From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9640 invoked from network); 1 Oct 1999 06:42:21 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 1999 06:42:21 +0100 Received: (qmail 6808 invoked from network); 1 Oct 1999 05:41:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Oct 1999 05:41:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Wv7I-0007tn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Oct 1999 06:20:24 +0100 Received: from ds-img-rel-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.140] helo=spdmraaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Wv7G-0007tL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Oct 1999 06:20:22 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) id BAA29120 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:19:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave (mfs-pci-bqj-vty6.as.wcom.net [212.211.10.6]) by spdmraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) with SMTP id BAA29078 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:19:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000001bf0bcc$677f67a0$060ad3d4@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Comment Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:37:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Comments on recent e-mails. 1. I cannot comment at all on the ARD receiver, never having seen one. However I would agree with the statement that a 500Hz filter is too wide. I have been using a 350Hz filter on hf for years and accept its higher loss. On hf it is the accepted norm, on 136 we need the filter as narrow as we can get it. I can understand those who have a quick listen on the band with a ssb filter - with DCF39 it is not surprising they hear no amateur signals and quickly lose interest. 2. I am always on the band listening fo QSOs between 0530-0630z. Apart from one or two regulars there seems to be little activity at that time, even at weekends. Can I remind all that this is an excellent time for lower band noise levels. In fact the gear is on all day during the week, although I seldom have qsos at other times because of business commitments. 3. I note with interest the G3XTZ beacon on Wednesday - I must have missed the announcement that this was going to be on. However I thought QRSS activity would normally be at the top end of the band. If it is necessary to transmit QRSS outside that section it would be most useful to identify in normal CW at suitable intervals (test beacon de G3XTZ qrp...). For those of us not into the QRSS scene it is not possible to distinguish between that mode and someone tuning up, and I waited with bated breath for him to start listening for calls. 73s Dave G3YMC sergeantd@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26617 invoked from network); 1 Oct 1999 10:04:38 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 1999 10:04:38 +0100 Received: (qmail 6362 invoked from network); 1 Oct 1999 09:10:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Oct 1999 09:10:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WyJW-0000tL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Oct 1999 09:45:14 +0100 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WyJR-0000tG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Oct 1999 09:45:13 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 11WyKU-0006Gr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:46:14 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Fri, 01 Oct 1999 09:45:11 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:45:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Comment In-reply-to: <000001bf0bcc$677f67a0$060ad3d4@dave> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3YMC wrote: > 2. I am always on the band listening fo QSOs between 0530-0630z. Apart > from one or two regulars there seems to be little activity at that time, > even at weekends. Can I remind all that this is an excellent time for > lower band noise levels. In fact the gear is on all day during the week, > although I seldom have qsos at other times because of business > commitments. I also check 136 in the mornings (about 0730UTC) and put out a call if the local noise is off. I do find that it is a little noisier than at weekends because of people watching breakfast TV before they go to work, but there's plenty of opportunity to work DX if the DX is there. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28783 invoked from network); 1 Oct 1999 11:41:43 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 1999 11:41:43 +0100 Received: (qmail 27409 invoked from network); 1 Oct 1999 10:47:21 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Oct 1999 10:47:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WzpU-0001iT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Oct 1999 11:22:20 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hk.czcom.cz ([195.146.99.2] helo=serverhk.czcom.cz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WzpT-0001iO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Oct 1999 11:22:19 +0100 Received: from lasvegas.GMCCZ ([195.146.99.28]) by serverhk.czcom.cz (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57399U3000L300S0V35) with ESMTP id cz for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:22:07 +0200 Received: by LASVEGAS with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) id ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:20:02 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: From: "Petr Maly" To: "'136'" Subject: LF: Not QRV this weekend Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:19:59 +0200 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LowFers This weekend I will not go to the cottage so I will not be QRV. Anyway, I will listen in my home QTH on Slow-CW both mornings. For one of the following weekends I plan an "expedition" to the cottage with full Slow-CW equipment, before winter comes. BTW, everyone uses a different name for Slow-CW. Also, names like "slow" CW is rather confusing for newcomers. What about unifying it? I suggest "VCW" - Visual CW. I believe that word "Visual" expresses basis of this mode much better than word "slow". 73! Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24360 invoked from network); 1 Oct 1999 23:47:05 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 1999 23:47:05 +0100 Received: (qmail 12279 invoked from network); 1 Oct 1999 22:46:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Oct 1999 22:46:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XB8r-0007E2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Oct 1999 23:27:05 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XB8q-0007Dx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Oct 1999 23:27:04 +0100 Received: from [212.140.17.16] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11XB8l-00011E-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 23:27:01 +0100 Message-ID: <004801bf0c5b$78aca1c0$23088cd4@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: re Dave's Comment on filters Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:31:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Dave, I must admit to being a little confused now. I am told a 500Hz filter is not good enough for 136, but the theoretical advantage of a 300Hz filter is only a couple of dB better, I believe. A 100Hz filter would have a theoretical advantage of 7dB (I believe) this should be the same as going from 2.5kHz to 500Hz (where I find the practical advantage more like 3-4dB). Yes there is a lot of QRM on HF cw and you need to isolate a signal to listen to. My experience (with 'inexperienced cw ears' !) is that I don't get the theoretical advantage by going to narrow filters. Am I missing something? or am I maybe not sufficiently practiced to take full advantage of the difference? I guess as Toni says that 1 to 2dB can make the difference between working a station and not working it. I can hear, and copy, most of the signals on 136 with a 2.5KHz SSB filter, and I don't get trouble from DCF39. I use lower sideband and put the carrier at 138.05 or 138.10. With a cheaper rx like the Lowe HF150 the SSB filter does not have steep enough skirts (and there is no cw option) and the carrier of DCF39 is only 60dB down, and I get a light trace of the signal on the waterfall display. Now listening like this does mean you have to tune the 'grey matter filter' to morse at frequencies up to about 2kHz. My tally of calls was about 20 or so listening like that, and it gave me the incentive to get better gear. On a receiver with a decent SSB filter shape factor the signal from DCF39 is 90dB down and no trouble (provided the front end has enough dynamic range) I'm keen to get a few tens of dBs advantage on weak signals over the band noise but I'm afraid I dont see it as a reality yet. The problem seems to be that those last few dBs are beginning to get expensive now. Thanks for the Icom filter number, Toni, I will look that one up. I hope this is not regarded as 'cage rattling', or is getting too boring. There are a lot of experienced ears out there, and even after 45 years in the hobby there are things to be learned (at least by me). If you have the time to impart your experience, I'm all ears (and so I suspect are a lot of other readers of the reflector.) After all, a 'sage' in my youth declared "if you can't hear 'em, you can't work 'em" and another "communication is 95% listening" Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8085 invoked from network); 2 Oct 1999 00:44:49 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 2 Oct 1999 00:44:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 31137 invoked from network); 1 Oct 1999 23:50:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Oct 1999 23:50:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XCC0-0007r3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Oct 1999 00:34:24 +0100 Received: from teapot29.domain7.bigpond.com ([139.134.5.236]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XCBy-0007qy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Oct 1999 00:34:23 +0100 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by teapot29.domain7.bigpond.com (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id na000715 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 09:31:34 +1000 Received: from MOIP-A-003-pool-178.tmns.net.au ([139.134.91.178]) by mail7.bigpond.com (Claudes-Particular-MailRouter V2.5 15/3290966); 02 Oct 1999 09:31:34 Message-ID: <003201bf0c65$76cdeb20$b25b868b@zimslaptop> From: "Graeme Zimmer" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <004801bf0c5b$78aca1c0$23088cd4@default> Subject: LF: Re: re Dave's Comment on filters Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 09:34:10 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Alan, > I can hear, and copy, most of the signals on 136 with a 2.5KHz SSB filter, > ................ > carrier of DCF39 is only 60dB down, and I get a light trace of the signal on > the waterfall display. I have been "listening" to the NewZealanders on 181.4 Khz for a few months now (is about 2500 km toVK) and find that Spectrogram is much happier if I use my wide SSB filter. If I use my narrow CW filter it rings badly to the everpresent QRN. This ringing is very visible on Spectrogram. I am looking for a definitive article or text which explains which is the best FILTER TYPE (shape, phase response, inpulse response, etc) to minimise ringing from QRN. Can any body help please? regards .............. Zim .............. VK3GJZ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20021 invoked from network); 2 Oct 1999 08:40:21 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 2 Oct 1999 08:40:21 +0100 Received: (qmail 1353 invoked from network); 2 Oct 1999 07:45:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Oct 1999 07:45:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XJQT-0002w2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Oct 1999 08:17:49 +0100 Received: from typhoon.mail.pipex.net ([158.43.128.27]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XJQS-0002vx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Oct 1999 08:17:48 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16308 invoked from network); 2 Oct 1999 07:17:45 -0000 Received: from userb169.uk.uudial.com (193.149.71.152) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 1999 07:17:45 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Nick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: re Dave's Comment on filters Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 08:18:45 +0100 Message-ID: References: <004801bf0c5b$78aca1c0$23088cd4@default> In-reply-to: <004801bf0c5b$78aca1c0$23088cd4@default> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:31:05 +0100, you wrote: > Am I missing something? or >am I maybe not sufficiently practiced to take full advantage of the >difference? Hi I've been lurking here for a while but am not active on LF (yet). I do make my living out of EMC measurement and trouble shooting though so have a fair idea of noise and signal performance, The theoretical improvements are those that would take place against random noise, not close spaced strong signals, so if static and atmospheric noise were the limiting factor then what you say is true. If on the other hand strong local signals were the problem then nose bandwidth, skirt shape/depth, and stop band are critical in keeping them out to be able to hear the ones you want and the improvement because of a reduction in the adjacent signal can be much greater than the figures mentioned. When you have spectrogram on the end the actual bandwidth you are looking at the signal through is that of the FFT process and is MUCH narrower than the receiver filter. In this case the rx bandwidth is only a 'roofing filter' and, provided all the chunk of signal arriving is around the same signal level, the rx bandwidth is irrelevant. If there are strong signals coming and going within the passband however this will cause AC pumping and all sorts of problems associated with that. In this case a narrower bandwidth would help a lot if it kept the unwanted strong signals out. Hopefully my understanding of the situation actually ties up with what people observe on the band, any comments welcome. Nick (G4WHO) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22982 invoked from network); 2 Oct 1999 08:59:54 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 2 Oct 1999 08:59:54 +0100 Received: (qmail 2588 invoked from network); 2 Oct 1999 07:59:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Oct 1999 07:59:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XJmm-00035Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Oct 1999 08:40:52 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XJml-00035U-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Oct 1999 08:40:51 +0100 Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Sat, 2 Oct 1999 09:40:43 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de (PC108207.dial.uni-kiel.de [134.245.108.207]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA19899 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 09:41:18 +0200 (MET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37F5B6EE.3AEF6C43@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 09:40:30 +0200 From: "Peter W. Schnoor" Organization: University of Kiel, Clinic of Nephrology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: G3XTZ Beacon... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello, G3XTZ beacon audible here Sat. 07:00z at 136 kHz, approx. 10sec of dot length. Despite of its strength it is hard to read on FFT-screen due to a pulsatile LORAN-C line. Got something like IO91?K. 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26509 invoked from network); 2 Oct 1999 09:22:35 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 2 Oct 1999 09:22:35 +0100 Received: (qmail 4560 invoked from network); 2 Oct 1999 08:28:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Oct 1999 08:28:17 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XKIX-0003Nx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Oct 1999 09:13:41 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.41] helo=pyyhe.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XKIV-0003Ns-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Oct 1999 09:13:40 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from default (MKDCLXXII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.167.172]) by pyyhe.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA19005 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 11:22:18 +0300 (EET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991002111343.0080eeb0@mail.dlc.fi> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: vaiski@mail.dlc.fi (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 11:13:43 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: Re: LF: Re: re Dave's Comment on filters In-reply-to: <003201bf0c65$76cdeb20$b25b868b@zimslaptop> References: <004801bf0c5b$78aca1c0$23088cd4@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF folks, Discussion about how to improve reception, including filters, how to avoid ringing etc forms basis for succesful LF op, and succesful operation in general. About QST: I have QST on CD Roms covering years 1915-1998, any hints about such articles are welcome. Just reading ON4UN's new 'Low Band' book, very good! Propagation monitoring note: Jokela observatory LF/MF field strength measurements were permanently closed on the 30th of September - my interest towards LF will continue as long as possible (also VHF/UHF measurements). September 138.83, 128.93 and 77.5 kHz results will be forwarded to Geri, DK8KW during this weekend. These graphs give some hint about day to day variation as well as month to month variation of field strength. 73 de Vaino, OH2LX -------------------------------------- >I have been "listening" to the NewZealanders on 181.4 Khz for a few months >now (is about 2500 km toVK) and find that Spectrogram is much happier if I >use my wide SSB filter. If I use my narrow CW filter it rings badly to the >everpresent QRN. This ringing is very visible on Spectrogram. > >I am looking for a definitive article or text which explains which is the >best FILTER TYPE (shape, phase response, inpulse response, etc) to minimise >ringing from QRN. Can any body help please? > >regards .............. Zim .............. VK3GJZ ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16272 invoked from network); 2 Oct 1999 11:24:59 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 2 Oct 1999 11:24:59 +0100 Received: (qmail 13839 invoked from network); 2 Oct 1999 10:30:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Oct 1999 10:30:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XMCB-0004KY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Oct 1999 11:15:15 +0100 Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XMC7-0004KS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Oct 1999 11:15:11 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #34) id 11XMDE-0001pn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 10:16:21 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Sat, 02 Oct 1999 11:00:01 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 11:00:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: re Dave's Comment on filters In-reply-to: <004801bf0c5b$78aca1c0$23088cd4@default> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3NYK wrote: > I must admit to being a little confused now. I am told a 500Hz > filter is not good enough for 136, but the theoretical advantage of a > 300Hz filter is only a couple of dB better, I believe. A 100Hz filter > would have a theoretical advantage of 7dB (I believe) this should be the > same as going from 2.5kHz to 500Hz (where I find the practical advantage > more like 3-4dB). Yes there is a lot of QRM on HF cw and you need to > isolate a signal to listen to. My experience (with 'inexperienced cw ears' > !) is that I don't get the theoretical advantage by going to narrow > filters. Am I missing something? or am I maybe not sufficiently practiced > to take full advantage of the difference? I guess as Toni says that 1 to > 2dB can make the difference between working a station and not working it. > > I can hear, and copy, most of the signals on 136 with a 2.5KHz SSB filter, > and I don't get trouble from DCF39. I use lower sideband and put the > carrier at 138.05 or 138.10. With a cheaper rx like the Lowe HF150 the SSB > filter does not have steep enough skirts (and there is no cw option) and > the carrier of DCF39 is only 60dB down, and I get a light trace of the > signal on the waterfall display. Now listening like this does mean you > have to tune the 'grey matter filter' to morse at frequencies up to about > 2kHz. My tally of calls was about 20 or so listening like that, and it > gave me the incentive to get better gear. On a receiver with a decent SSB > filter shape factor the signal from DCF39 is 90dB down and no trouble > (provided the front end has enough dynamic range) > > I'm keen to get a few tens of dBs advantage on weak signals over the band > noise but I'm afraid I dont see it as a reality yet. The problem seems to > be that those last few dBs are beginning to get expensive now. Ah, the key words here are "grey matter". The DSP in the brain is far superior to anything you can get from MFJ, but only for certain things. Certainly, the theoretical advantage in signal/noise of a narrower filter is never achieved in practice with reception by ear because the brain is able to do its own filtering. The main advantage of a narrow filter is in reducing QRM which the brain has difficulty filtering out. And perhaps Alan would find the need for a narrower filter if he had to copy all of a QSO. I use a 500Hz filter - the shape factor of the SSB filter in the IC-706 is too poor for 136 - but have not felt the need to spend the money on a 250Hz filter. My score of 70 stations heard on 136 demonstrates how good the Rx is. I do agree, though, that an absolute beginner may well have problems with a wider filter because he/she may not be experienced in digging signals out of the noise (the brain's DSP needs some programming) and often there will be spurious mixing products audible in-band until the beginner realises just how good the front end needs to be. I am sure there must have been many people who gave up when they could not get anywhere near the noise floor. Of course, narrower filters (including DSP) can be useful and will give the brain a rest, so I am not suggesting that they should not be used. I have a DSP filter on my bench but do not often use it as I rarely find it improves on what the ear/brain combination can do. One last point, someone (Vaino, perhaps) commented that some contest operators do not use narrow filters. Yes, this is common because in a contest most stations are both strong and off frequency, and overs are too short to do much fiddling with the Rx. So using too narrow a filter will result in lost contacts. The beauty of a DSP filter is that, once tuned in, a weak signal or one very close to QRM can be quickly selected by progressively reducing the bandwidth without retuning - something that is difficult to do with switched analogue filters. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24706 invoked from network); 2 Oct 1999 15:08:44 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 2 Oct 1999 15:08:44 +0100 Received: (qmail 10329 invoked from network); 2 Oct 1999 14:07:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Oct 1999 14:07:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XPif-000668-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Oct 1999 15:01:01 +0100 Received: from cask.force9.net ([195.166.128.29]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XPie-000663-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Oct 1999 15:01:00 +0100 Received: (qmail 5164 invoked from network); 2 Oct 1999 14:00:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO main) (212.56.92.83) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 2 Oct 1999 14:00:50 -0000 Message-ID: <004101bf0cdf$11aaa6a0$0600a8c0@main> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Receivers Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 15:04:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all. There's been some discussion about filters etc recently which reminded me of a question I wanted to ask the group... What receivers/tranceivers work well on LF? and possibly.. What receivers or tranceivers don't work very well? All I need is something like this: IC735; rather deaf, needs external preamp/filter. TS850; excellent, especially with two CW filters. DX70; sensitive (without preamp) but filter too wide. IC something-or-other that I saw at Windsor last year; useless, huge birdie in the middle of the band! Then I can assemble a little database of what works and what doesn't. Thanks, Dave Pick. G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12617 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 06:42:31 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 06:42:31 +0100 Received: (qmail 24526 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 05:41:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 05:41:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XeAd-0004rN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 06:26:51 +0100 Received: from dh-img-rel-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.132] helo=hpdmraaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XeAY-0004rH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 06:26:46 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpdmraaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-REL-1.2) id BAA28507 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 01:26:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave (host212-140-126-20.host.btclick.com [212.140.126.20]) by hpdmraaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-REL-1.2) with SMTP id BAA28487 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 01:26:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000001bf0d5f$b206af60$147e8cd4@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <004801bf0c5b$78aca1c0$23088cd4@default> Subject: LF: Re: re Dave's Comment on filters Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 15:27:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC I was about to reply direct to Alan about his receiver bandwidth suggestions, but other mails now demand a reply to the reflector. Nick G4WHO sums it up very nicely when he says that the theoretical improvement is for noise considerations only. This assumes you are listening to a single signal on an otherwise unoccupied band. In this case there will be little difference between the 500Hz signal and 350Hz. However we live in a real world, with often several strong in-band signals and the weak one we want to copy among them. For this purpose the bandwidth and skirt response is the most important thing. Frequently at weekends it is impossible to find a clear frequency in the normal CW part of the band when using normal bandwidth CW filters. My 350Hz Yaesu filter is rather lacking in slope response, such that for instance when G3XTZ's signal is on 136.0 I have to tune up to 136.5 to totally clear it. Most HF transceivers are configured for upper sideband CW. An audio filter may help (I have not tried one) but AGC effects will still reduce sensitivity for copying weak signals in the skirts of stronger ones. As a long time HF CW operator, both in contests and DX pile up chasing, I could never go back to using an SSB filter for CW, it is just literally as wide as a barn door. Like on HF when it is the norm to have 500Hz or less, it should also be the norm on 136. However though I know some operators have much narrower filters than that, when I transmit I always try to avoid transmitting too close to others, assuming if it is too close with my filter it will be too close for the other amateur's receiver as well. Not that I am a big enough signal to cause much QRM! Note that most good CW operators tend to tune for a note of 600Hz or below, as copyability and human ear filtering is better for lower notes. Those of you attending the HF convention next weekend may like to try your hand at the CW pile up competition, which will give you a feel about what real CW operating is like! I am also rather puzzled by the emphasis given to DCF39. With a normal CW filter it is so far out of the band that it simply doesn't come into the equation (unless you have receiver overload problems that is). 73s Dave G3YMC sergeantd@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6176 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 10:18:46 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 10:18:46 +0100 Received: (qmail 1930 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 09:18:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 09:18:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Xhey-0006Yl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 10:10:24 +0100 Received: from bluey.thefree.net ([195.34.192.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Xhew-0006Yg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 10:10:23 +0100 Received: from nas02198.34.thefree.net (nas02-198.34.thefree.net [195.34.198.34]) by bluey.thefree.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA19400 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 09:11:45 +0100 Message-ID: <001b01bf0d7f$0719c400$22c622c3@34.thefree.net> From: "Tony" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <004101bf0cdf$11aaa6a0$0600a8c0@main> Subject: LF: Re: Receivers Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 10:09:34 +0100 Organization: Free dot Net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave > Dear all. > There's been some discussion about filters etc recently which reminded me of > a question I wanted to ask the group... > What receivers/tranceivers work well on LF? > and possibly.. > What receivers or tranceivers don't work very well? > Thanks, Dave Pick. G3YXM. Well Dave, I can report that the Kenwood TS690S transceiver works well for reception on 73 and 136Khz without modification, other than to add a variable series L + C between the antenna and transceiver which nicely peaks up the wanted LF. So far on 136Khz I've heard five countries on normal speed CW with the 60metre end-fed inverted L wire at about 8metres high. Most heard with a 2khz passband, though I can switch in 250Hz IF or narrower audio filters when necessary. Using the Datong (V)LF converter ahead of the transceiver did not render any weak signals more readable, but was useful for monitoring below 30Khz ( down to about 5kHz minimum ) - which the TS690S transceiver would not otherwise reach. However, although the Russian long range Alpha navigation transmitters around 11.9, 12.65, 14.1Khz continue to come through clearly using the Datong converter, I haven't heard any natural atmospheric whistlers or similar phenomena yet ! tony@thefree.net ( G3ZRH) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6178 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 10:18:49 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 10:18:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 1933 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 09:18:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 09:18:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XhfN-0006Yt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 10:10:49 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XhfM-0006Yo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 10:10:48 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA03107 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 10:10:46 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <1999100310233468199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 10:23:34 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: Re: LF: Receivers Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit > There's been some discussion about filters etc recently which reminded me of > a question I wanted to ask the group... > What receivers/tranceivers work well on LF? and possibly.. > What receivers or transceivers don't work very well? > All I need is something like this: > IC735; rather deaf, needs external preamp/filter. > TS850; excellent, especially with two CW filters. The receiver itself in not the whole story. In the early days of 73kHz experiments I used an old IC-707 with a Datong converter. I found its performance was very poor with lots of birdies and breakthrough. On a visit to Mike, G3XDV, I listened to his 73kHz setup, which comprised the same Daytong converter but with an IC 706 as the tunable IF. His receive setup sounded totally different with nice crisp sound and the occasional 'gunshot' static. The difference in performance was the result of Mike using a tuned circuit preselector and a carefully adjusted variable attenuator. Much of my early work on 73kHz and 136kHz was done using a Drake 4C with 1500, 500 and 200Hz Sherwood filters and first IF roofing filter - with a double-tuned circuit preselector and a variable attentuator (potentiometer). and I was happy with this (except for poor frequency readout). When 136kHz became available my main problem was Loran. This holds the S-meter at S6 at 1.5kHz bandwidth and at narrower bandwidths the filter rings due to the Loran. John, G4GVC, was having more success on receive than most and after hearing John's TS-850 receiver setup, I bought a second-hand TS-850. The filters and bandwidth control, plus 3+OFF AGC setting make this the best receiver I have ever used in over 40 years of Ham Radio. But it still needs a preselector and variable attenuator to get the best out of it. My feeling is that if Loran is not a problem at your QTH then any modern transceiver that has good sensitivity at LF and has a CW filter will work provided that the gain distribution throughout the receive system (antenna, converter, receiver front-end, audio) is under control. The component between the headphones also contributes to receiver efficiency. I find that a 500kHz filter is the best in the presence of Loran. However, I recently asked if anyone knew of a Level Meter D2155 made by Siemens that I recently aquired. I got no response so I assume that no one knows about it. So I decided to try it as a very good receiver, and it seems very good except that the bandwidths of 3.7kHz and 20Hz are a bit strange. With the narrow filter on I do not hear Loran and it converts all signals and noise to a single note but it does not ring. A normal CW signal stands out but is rather 'soft'. I used it for the first time this morning, 3/10/99, and the fist signal received was (I think) DL calling CQ on 136.54. The D2155 was not tuned quite onto him before he went over. The next signal was G4GVC and we had a QSO. John's signal was -80dBm. G3BDQ called me but I had to go QRT. His signal was -78dBm. You may all be getting a different type of report from me in the future! Next Tuesday morning I will be running tests on 72.1kHz on Slow CW and listening/looking on that band and on the 136kHz band for replies. If you want a sked let me know. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5807 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 13:27:36 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 13:27:36 +0100 Received: (qmail 14747 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 12:26:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 12:26:54 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XkbO-0007yU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 13:18:54 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from premium.inrete.it ([194.116.9.4] helo=mailer.inrete.it ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XkbN-0007yP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 13:18:53 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from cel266 ([151.20.71.112]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA32474 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 14:18:47 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991003141741.00944100@mailer.inrete.it> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 14:17:41 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Receivers In-reply-to: <001b01bf0d7f$0719c400$22c622c3@34.thefree.net> References: <004101bf0cdf$11aaa6a0$0600a8c0@main> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 10.09 03/10/99 +0100, Tony G3ZRH wrote: >However, although the Russian long range Alpha navigation >transmitters around 11.9, 12.65, 14.1Khz continue to come through clearly >using the Datong converter, I haven't heard any natural atmospheric >whistlers or similar phenomena yet ! >tony@thefree.net ( G3ZRH) > For those, try connecting your S'Blaster directly to the antenna. Have a look to IK1QFK site: http://space.tin.it/scienza/rromero/ The site has been recently updated with many informations on ELF/ULF listening (1 Hz to 22 kHz). Your contribution is wellcome! Marco Bruno - IK1ODO spin@inrete.it SPIN Electronics - www.spin-it.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20850 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 17:37:46 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 17:37:46 +0100 Received: (qmail 4230 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 16:37:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 16:37:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XoE1-0001HG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 17:11:01 +0100 Received: from host-124.bip.net ([62.20.92.124] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XoE0-0001HB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 17:11:00 +0100 Received: from default (t4o940p82.telia.com [194.237.163.202]) by host-124.bip.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA26703 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 18:08:56 +0200 Message-ID: <000d01bf0db9$b2a91700$caa3edc2@default> From: "urban.ekholm" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Did anyone hear my CQ:s ? Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 18:09:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hello everybody !
 
After a lot of fiddling with taps on the loading coil for the tx output and the antenna and also the best setting of the variometer I this afternoon (oct 3) called a number of CQ:s for the first time on 136190. The time was 1400 to 1430Z. The question is: did anyone hear me ?
When listening I found the noise level being quite low and when home again I found a bad solder connection in the pre-amp so no wonder the noise level was low.
 
The tx has about 130W output into a T-antenna with the vertical part about 10m high and top loading with 3 wires 30m long spaced 50cm. The ground system is so far only one ground rod and 4 radials.
The rx is a TR7 and preamp.
 
What trigged me to try this band was that a couple of months ago I heard OH1TN and an OZ.... on a 40 turns loop with a side of 70cm.
 
73 de SM5EUF / Urban in JO78SQ (summer QTH)
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26884 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 18:08:36 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 18:08:36 +0100 Received: (qmail 21340 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 17:14:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 17:14:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XooG-0001W3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 17:48:28 +0100 Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XooF-0001Vy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 17:48:27 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.51) with SMTP id 013558 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 18:48:16 +0200 (MDT) Message-ID: <37F796B3.CB2FEC97@phonakcom.ch> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 19:47:31 +0200 From: "Toni Bdrtschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: re Dave's Comment on filters References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >>From HB9ASB, JN36pt > > Ah, the key words here are "grey matter". The DSP in the brain is > far superior to anything you can get from MFJ, but only for certain > things. Certainly, the theoretical advantage in signal/noise of a > narrower filter is never achieved in practice with reception by ear > because the brain is able to do its own filtering. The main advantage > of a narrow filter is in reducing QRM which the brain has difficulty > filtering out. And perhaps Alan would find the need for a narrower > filter if he had to copy all of a QSO. > > I think thats the point, Mike and I agree with your comments. Unfortunately our grey-matter-filters have not all the same quality. Mine is probably heavy damaged by the wine growing in our region - so I really need a little help from "external" filters. 73 de Toni PS. Good signal from the G3XTZ beacon on 135.950 Can copy it by ear with 10Hz BW (the band down there is full of carriers from unknown sources) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29534 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 18:23:10 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 18:23:10 +0100 Received: (qmail 9003 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 17:22:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 17:22:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XpE9-0001lj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 18:15:13 +0100 Received: from mb06.swip.net ([193.12.122.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XpE8-0001ld-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 18:15:12 +0100 Received: from win95 (d212-151-84-160.swipnet.se [212.151.84.160]) by mb06.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA13759 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 19:15:02 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000e01bf0dc3$2f468dc0$a05497d4@win95.swipnet.se> From: "Christer Andersson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SV: Did anyone hear my CQ:s ? Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 19:17:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hello Urban.
 
Heard You with 579 in JO69UO, 135 km distance.
Understood there was something wrong with your rx.
 
73
Christer, sm6pxj
 
 
-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: urban.ekholm <urban.ekholm@hem-pc.bip.net>
Till: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Datum: den 3 oktober 1999 18:18
Ämne: LF: Did anyone hear my CQ:s ?

Hello everybody !
 
After a lot of fiddling with taps on the loading coil for the tx output and the antenna and also the best setting of the variometer I this afternoon (oct 3) called a number of CQ:s for the first time on 136190. The time was 1400 to 1430Z. The question is: did anyone hear me ?
When listening I found the noise level being quite low and when home again I found a bad solder connection in the pre-amp so no wonder the noise level was low.
 
The tx has about 130W output into a T-antenna with the vertical part about 10m high and top loading with 3 wires 30m long spaced 50cm. The ground system is so far only one ground rod and 4 radials.
The rx is a TR7 and preamp.
 
What trigged me to try this band was that a couple of months ago I heard OH1TN and an OZ.... on a 40 turns loop with a side of 70cm.
 
73 de SM5EUF / Urban in JO78SQ (summer QTH)
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13854 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 19:37:51 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 19:37:51 +0100 Received: (qmail 16788 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 18:37:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 18:37:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XqMW-0002L5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 19:27:56 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mlist.austria.eu.net ([193.81.83.3] helo=hausmasta.Austria.EU.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XqMV-0002L0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 19:27:55 +0100 Received: from qsl.net (dialup218.ap01-ried.at.eu.net [193.154.148.218]) by hausmasta.Austria.EU.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06669 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 20:27:50 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <37F79FE6.30D65533@qsl.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 20:26:46 +0200 From: "Heinz Schnait" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Teletron LF Receiver - Info Request Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello, No 136kHz activity from the OE5 group this weekend. We have attended the ham fast in Eggenfelden (Bavaria) this Saturday. I had a personal contact with Rudi, DJ2EY, whom I had worked on 136kHz before. Together with Peter, OE5PGL, I have bought a commercial LF Receiver. It is made in Germany by a company called Pfitzner, the model is a Teletron LWF 45. It was presumably used by the Deutscher Wetterdienst (German Meterological Service). It is a heavy unit equipped with a RTTY decoder. It uses 2 tubes (2x EF93) in the front end, the remaining circuit is transistorized throughout. It has a mechanical defect (propably repairable) on the band switch limiting operation to only one range of 60 -150kHz. We've been listening today to severall commercial stations (including DCF54 at 134.2, DCF39 at 139.0, DCH47 147.3) on a G5RV. Our first impression is that it was a good deal for 100,-DM! More detailed testing will follow. Unfortunatly the receiver came without any documentation. If somebody has a manual or circuit diagrams for fotocopying please let me know. All expenses will be paid. Also we would like to know if anybody has experience (amateur or professional) with this receiver. Any information on this model is welcome (company background, previous usage, technical data). 73 Heinz, OE5EEP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9734 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 21:43:11 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 21:43:11 +0100 Received: (qmail 31437 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 20:42:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 20:42:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XsLd-0003Js-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 21:35:09 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111] helo=gadolinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XsLc-0003Jn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 21:35:08 +0100 Received: from [212.140.7.33] (helo=default) by gadolinium with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11XsLa-0001Be-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 21:35:06 +0100 Message-ID: <007901bf0dde$2cbc4520$21078cd4@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: re receivers and filters...WOW and thanks all Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 19:48:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks to all who have shared their experience on receivers and filters. Its going to take a little while to digest that lot. In the meanwhile I promise to be quiet, and not stir things up again.....for a little while at least! 73 de Alan G3NYK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9754 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 21:43:17 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 21:43:17 +0100 Received: (qmail 31444 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 20:42:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 20:42:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XsLn-0003K0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 21:35:19 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111] helo=gadolinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XsLj-0003Ju-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 21:35:15 +0100 Received: from [212.140.7.33] (helo=default) by gadolinium with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11XsLg-0001Be-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 21:35:12 +0100 Message-ID: <007c01bf0dde$304e4580$21078cd4@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster GB7DXM 2/3rd Oct. Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 21:29:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, Disappointment this weekend I'm afraid. There were no LF postings to the DX cluster this weekend. I think this coincides with a big Europe-wide UHF and microwave contest. Certainly the local Cluster was very busy. As there is a very active local contest group I refrained from posting anything myself this weekend. I was 'working' on Saturday, but did hear Mike calling DJ3DF at 0600z and again at 0626z. Mike worked DJ2LF at 0710z. and called IK1ODO later, but I don't think a qso was completed. On Sunday I logged PA0MLC, G3LDO, and G4GVC, but I was fighting with a noise source which turned out to be self inflicted (a NiCad charger!) After removing it and whilst I was making my 2nd cup of coffee in the kitchen (0845z), my ears pricked up as I heard John G4GVC sending Toni's call (HB9ASB). By the time I had adjusted the loop another 45degrees to the south, I was just in time to see a weak line on the waterfall display (in 2.5kHz filter) between John's last two overs, and just too late to switch in the CW filter and tweek up the ears to see if I could copy Toni. (John gave him 559). Ah well, maybe next time... Mike G3XDV was putting in a thundering signal on QRSS and worked DJ5AO at 0955z with an 'M' report. I could not see a trace of the German station. At 1500z Mike worked Geri DK8KW on QRS though by then the lightning crashes were beginning to build up. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13345 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 21:59:01 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 21:59:01 +0100 Received: (qmail 13869 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 21:04:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 21:04:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Xsaf-0003Tb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 21:50:41 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Xsac-0003TQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 21:50:39 +0100 Received: from [203.96.99.240] by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19991003205522.LOQR695.mta1-rme@[203.96.99.240]> for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:55:22 +1300 Message-ID: <37F7C071.24C8@xtra.co.nz> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 09:45:37 +1300 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Receivers References: <004101bf0cdf$11aaa6a0$0600a8c0@main> <001b01bf0d7f$0719c400$22c622c3@34.thefree.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Thanks to contributors of comments on receiver performance at LF. Some more points tossed in to the melting pot ... The bandwidth and shape factor of a receiver IF filter is one of the "hearty annuals" of amateur radio discussion. What most users focus on is the STEADY STATE frequency response, as one could verify by tuning across a clean carrier as a test signal (and not forgetting about phase noise and reciprocal mixing, but not to digress ...). The parameter that is not adequately mentioned in specifications is the TRANSIENT RESPONSE of a filter but at any LF band (and MF and lower HF as well) that is of great importance as the "static" is a type of unavoidable impulse applied to the receiver. For trying to copy weak signals, what happens to the static peaks can end up as "ringing" in the IF filter output, even if it seemed "cleaner" at the antenna terminals or filter input. Passive filter circuits can not avoid some amount of ringing. It necessarily gets worse as the passband is narrowed. This can be thought of as impulse energy being "converted" to ringing energy within the passband. Once the ringing energy is inband, it "pollutes" the wanted signal. The filter phase response (also known in its derivative form as group delay) depends on the specific type of design (Butterworth, Chebychev, Elliptic, Bessel, etc or a hybrid combination). The filter with least ringing is the Bessel design, but it also has the least skirt selectivity. So in summary, steady state filter response is only part of the story, and transient response is one of the parameters that has a big influence on the results of receiving with narrowband settings (not only to aural CW, but to other modes such as RTTY or PSK-31). Going for (passive component) filters with test results of "square skirt responses" and "narrower passbands" is a recipe for a lot of ringing, guaranteed. I would imagine that commercial designs of the narrow band crystal filters (for receivers) do trade off skirt roll-off as bandwidths are narrowed. This is probably a topic where results are commercially or militarily sensitive and could be why there is a lack of public domain information. Most of the amateur designs of narrow filters are entirely focussed on selectivity results and appear to under-estimate the matter of transient response. The characteristics of an IF noise blanker can also be significant to "improving" reception of weak LF signals, as the blanker tries to negate the burst of QRN by temporarily switching off the IF gain. I have had an audio DSP accessory with variable bandwidth for some time, and in theory it can give incredible selectivity along with "no ringing". While it tests out rather well for audio signal to noise situations (more signal than noise), I find it is not of practical advantage when tried in noise to signal situations. However, it is noise to signal situations that is the attraction to amateur DX work! So in summary, I have found that audio DSP can make good signals better, but it also makes bad signals worse (as judged by aural listening). Consequently I do not bother using audio DSP for weak signal listening. I can not comment on receivers with DSP in the final IF, as I have not tried one. However, if they can do digital blanking of noise bursts as well as filtering with minimal ringing then they could have something to offer that passive filters do not? When receivers are tested on the bench, with fairly pure signal generator sources, and under steady state conditions, they can verify the specifications that are in the advertised data for selectivity and signal to noise performance. Putting that receiver on LF (using a converter if the tuning range does not go down that far) where there is always "pops" of QRN will soon sort out how ringing impacts on narrow bandwidth options and when receiving weak signals. I am not aware of a standard test method to produce measured results of how a receiver performs in noise to signal ratio situations (especially with impulse QRN on LF), but that particular aspect would be of great interest to this discussion group. Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4349 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 23:51:57 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 23:51:57 +0100 Received: (qmail 24800 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 22:57:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 22:57:48 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XuMP-0004Li-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 23:44:05 +0100 Received: from gatef.bbc.co.uk ([132.185.132.15] helo=gatef.kw.bbc.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XuMO-0004Ld-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 23:44:04 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from sunf0.rd.bbc.co.uk (ddmailgate.rd.bbc.co.uk [132.185.128.104]) by gatef.kw.bbc.co.uk (8.8.5/8.7.2) with SMTP id XAA14966 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 23:44:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from pc523 ([172.28.38.1]) by sunf0.rd.bbc.co.uk; Sun, 3 Oct 99 23:43:57 BST X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991003234328.00a238c0@sunf0> X-Sender: simonlh@sunf0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 23:43:28 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Simon Lloyd-Hughes" Subject: Re: Re: LF: re Toni's comments on the 7030 and filters In-reply-to: References: <008401bf0ab3$17e3ebe0$16fbabc3@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: There is a simple circuit in this months Practical Wireless. At 08:40 30/09/99 +1, you wrote: >Dear Alan, > >if I understand well,you are receiving CW by ear, not by >Spectrogram. > >For receiving CW by ears I found very useful a stereo processor, >like that described in > >http://hem2.passagen.se/sm0vpo/use/stereo.htm > >which allow to "spatially" spread signals (and noise) " in front of >you": > >lower frequency signals are stronger in the left earphone >speaker, and higher frequency in the right one. In this way you can >simply concentrate your brain in the signal coming from a certain >"virtual direction" > >It's interesting with large filters (e.g. 500 Hz), however I never >tryied it with narrower filters. It may need some adjustment... > >73 Aldo IZ1ANT > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15530 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 01:02:03 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 01:02:03 +0100 Received: (qmail 29538 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 00:07:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 00:07:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XvSQ-000544-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 00:54:22 +0100 Received: from tk2.ihug.co.nz ([203.29.160.14] helo=smtp2.ihug.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11XvSO-00053z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 00:54:20 +0100 Received: from test (p4-max2.chc.ihug.co.nz [207.214.13.4]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA03595 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:54:04 +1300 Message-ID: <033301bf0dfa$c36aba80$0200a8c0@test> From: "Dave Brown" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <1999100310233468199@zetnet.co.uk> Subject: Re: LF: Receivers Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:55:10 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Dodd To: Sent: Sunday, 3 October 1999 10:23 PM Subject: Re: LF: Receivers > However, I recently asked if anyone knew of a Level Meter D2155 made > by Siemens that I recently aquired. I got no response so I assume > that no one knows about it.......... Peter (and anyone else interested) I can scan the 1988 Siemens catalog pages relevant to the D2155 and email to you if you wish. There are 3 or 4 pages all up, depending on which version you have (ie whether or not it includes the tracking oscillator) I don't have one personally but I do have similar units from both Siemens and W&G and could possibly track down a copy of part/all of a relevant handbook if necessary.. I think a D2155 changed hands here in ZL between a couple of LF amateurs in recent months but it may have been the 2 MHz version (different D...number) rather than the 600 KHz one ( D2155). Would have replied earlier but was away at beginning of last week and have had a 'flu bug since and still recovering. 73 Dave ZL3FJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16858 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 08:44:51 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 08:44:51 +0100 Received: (qmail 25179 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 07:50:41 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 07:50:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Y2Vn-000063-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 08:26:19 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Y2Vj-00005x-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 08:26:15 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA09935 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:32:55 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991004092623.312f5bca@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 09:26:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Receivers In-reply-to: <004101bf0cdf$11aaa6a0$0600a8c0@main> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 15:04 2/10/99 +0100, you wrote: >Dear all. > >There's been some discussion about filters etc recently which reminded me of >a question I wanted to ask the group... >What receivers/tranceivers work well on LF? >and possibly.. >What receivers or tranceivers don't work very well? > >All I need is something like this: > >IC735; rather deaf, needs external preamp/filter. >TS850; excellent, especially with two CW filters. >DX70; sensitive (without preamp) but filter too wide. >IC something-or-other that I saw at Windsor last year; useless, huge birdie >in the middle of the band! > >Then I can assemble a little database of what works and what doesn't. > >Thanks, Dave Pick. G3YXM. > Hi Dave, To add on your list : Kenwood TS440 with 500Hz CW filter : very sensitive, but s-meter is rather 'lazy' (but who cares about that) if used with a big antenna, the internal 20dB attenuator improves IM-behavior I heard so far about 65 stations in 14 countries with it 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22365 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 10:35:28 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 10:35:28 +0100 Received: (qmail 26859 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 09:34:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 09:34:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Y4K2-00013N-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:22:18 +0100 Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Y4K1-00013I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:22:17 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.51) with SMTP id 06941 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:22:01 +0200 (MDT) Message-ID: <37F875DA.6D5BD8B@phonakcom.ch> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:39:38 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Toni Baertschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,de-CH,fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Receivers References: <3.0.1.16.19991004092623.312f5bca@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >>From HB9ASB, JN36PT Another one for the list: ICOM IC765: on 136 kHz as good as commercial LF receivers after removing the internal LF attenuator! Very good selection with cascaded 250 Hz filters. Can be narrowed down to less than 100Hz by band pass tuning. Most "Yen boxes" have additional built-in attenuators in the LF/MF path and the sensitivity improves by 20 dB or so if you take them out. Normally this creates no problem if you don't live in proximity of a LF/MF broadcaster (My QTH is about 40 km from Sottens on 765 kHz) 73 de Toni From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27727 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 10:51:56 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 10:51:56 +0100 Received: (qmail 29351 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 09:51:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 09:51:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Y4bL-0001DD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:40:11 +0100 Received: from [195.102.240.137] (helo=mserv1b.u-net.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Y4bK-0001D8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:40:11 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 11Y4cC-0004YX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:41:05 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:25:30 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:25:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Weekend Report 2/3 October X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: High winds this weekend but the new antenna stayed up well - the old one would have needed to be lowered. Saturday 2 October Very low noise but also low activity. Heard G3YXM (599); PA0SE (579) Worked G4GVC (599/599) Saw on Spectrogram extremely slow CW (QRSs) from IK1ODO ('M'); DF3LP ('O' and audible at S1) Worked on QRSs a new one - DJ2LF ('M'/'M') making the 70th station heard on 136kHz and the 46th station worked. Sunday 3 October Sent test transmission on 71.90kHz from 0700- 0845UTC. Low noise again on 136kHz, but still low activity. Heard GW4ALG (579); G4GVC (599); MM0ALM (439); G3YXM (599) Worked on QRSs: DJ5AO (gave 'M', got 'O') Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27836 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 10:52:22 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 10:52:22 +0100 Received: (qmail 10325 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 09:58:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 09:58:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Y4YN-0001CH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:37:07 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.138] helo=spdmgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Y4YM-0001CC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:37:06 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id FAA07518 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 05:37:04 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 05:36:46 -0400 From: "Bernd Neubig" Subject: Re: LF: Receivers To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199910040536_MC2-877C-3BB3@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: de DK1AG: I am evaluationg, if I am to design a front-end crystal filter with a bandwidth just equal to the width of the 136 kHz LF band. It will be a four-pole filter with an ultimate attenuation of 60 dB and a shpae facttor of 60dB to 6dB of approximately 4 (four). For good match at the antenna side, probably an input attenuator should be added inf ront of it. Attention: There is a maximum input power of 10mW allowed, this means it must be avoided, that it is connected at any time with the transmitter ourput. As this needs some design efforts, and there are some cost related to it, I want to ask the lowfer-community, - What do you think about the idea? - Who would be interested to purchase such a filter (expected price in the 200.-DM range)? - What is the bestl termination impedance ? Is 50 ohms fine or should it be in the kilo-ohms range? - Could it be in an enclosure with solder-pins or preferably with BNC or UHF connectors? Please let me know your answer either in this mail-box panel or directly to my e-mail address BNeubig@compuserve.com Bernd DK 1 AG P.S.: I am with Tele Quarz in Neckarbischofsheim, Germany From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1491 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 11:03:29 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 11:03:29 +0100 Received: (qmail 11898 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 10:09:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 10:09:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Y4bI-0001D5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:40:08 +0100 Received: from [195.102.240.137] (helo=mserv1b.u-net.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Y4bH-0001D0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:40:07 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 11Y4cJ-0004ZA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:41:11 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:28:48 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:28:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: 73kHz sked X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have a sked on the 73kHz band with Peter, G3LDO, on Tuesday morning (the 5th)between 0700 and 0745UTC. Frequency will be 71.90kHz. Any reports would be welcome. I will be testing on Monday evening (the 4th) on that frequency. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9275 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 11:30:15 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 11:30:15 +0100 Received: (qmail 1781 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 10:29:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 10:29:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Y5GT-0001aB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:22:41 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Y5GS-0001a5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:22:40 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id LAA02924 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:22:22 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <1999100410532668199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:53:26 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: Re: LF: Receivers Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Dave Thank you for responding to my enquiry. I was quite supprised to get the response from ZL - I expected the response to come from just across the water in DL. > I can scan the 1988 Siemens catalog pages relevant to the D2155 and email to > you if you wish. There are 3 or 4 pages all up, depending on which version > you have (ie whether or not it includes the tracking oscillator) I very much appreciate the offer. Send it direct to me because the reflector does not like attached files. Also send one page at a time with short email - my system only seems to be able to handle one attached file at a time. I dont know if my unit has a tracking oscillator. I have managed to figure all the controls but I have a couple of queries on connections Bu5 labelled 'Synchr' and the pin connections of Bu11 at the rear of the unit. > I don't have one personally but I do have similar units from both Siemens > and W&G and could possibly track down a copy of part/all of a relevant > handbook if necessary.. No, I dont think thats necessary unless I want to modify the unit - I will leave it for the time being. > Would have replied earlier but was away at beginning of last week and have > had a 'flu bug since and still recovering. Ok Dave - thanks once again, and I trust you feel a bit better now. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17686 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 11:58:54 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 11:58:54 +0100 Received: (qmail 18965 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 11:04:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 11:04:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Y5a5-0001jm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:42:57 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hk.czcom.cz ([195.146.99.2] helo=serverhk.czcom.cz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Y5a3-0001jh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:42:56 +0100 Received: from lasvegas.GMCCZ ([195.146.99.24]) by serverhk.czcom.cz (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57399U3000L300S0V35) with ESMTP id cz for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:42:47 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by LASVEGAS with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) id ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:40:56 +0200 Message-ID: From: "Petr Maly" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Receivers Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:40:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit RE: LF: Receivers

Hello Bernd,
someone here already used an x-tal filter at the input of RX as far as I remember. I do not know his experiencies.
Anyway, I would be thankful for such a filter, but shifted by 10 MHz, that is SSB filter on 10,137 kHz for making a transvertor.

73! Petr, OK1FIG


    -----Pùvodní zpráva-----
    Od:     Bernd Neubig [SMTP:BNeubig@compuserve.com]
    Odesláno:       4. øíjna 1999 11:37
    Komu:   INTERNET:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
    Pøedmìt:        Re: LF: Receivers

    de DK1AG:

    I am evaluationg, if I am to design a front-end crystal filter with a
    bandwidth just equal to the width of the 136 kHz LF band.
    It will be a four-pole filter with an ultimate attenuation of 60 dB and a
    shpae facttor of 60dB to 6dB of approximately 4 (four).
    For good match at the antenna side, probably an input attenuator should be
    added inf ront of it.
    Attention: There is a maximum input power of 10mW allowed, this means it
    must be avoided, that it is connected at any time
    with the transmitter ourput.

    As this needs some design efforts, and there are some cost related to it, I
    want to ask the lowfer-community,
    - What do you think about the idea?
    - Who would be interested to purchase such a filter (expected price in the
    200.-DM range)?
    - What is the bestl termination impedance  ? Is 50 ohms fine or should it
    be in the kilo-ohms range?
    - Could it be in an enclosure with solder-pins or preferably with BNC or
    UHF connectors?

    Please let me know your answer either in this mail-box panel or directly to
    my e-mail address
    BNeubig@compuserve.com

    Bernd
    DK 1 AG


    P.S.: I am with Tele Quarz in Neckarbischofsheim, Germany

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21800 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 13:50:13 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 13:50:13 +0100 Received: (qmail 1526 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 12:56:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 12:56:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Y7Kf-0002eo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 13:35:09 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.32] (helo=Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Y7Ke-0002ej-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 13:35:08 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.150.114]) by Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA19FB for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:35:00 +0200 Message-ID: <006c01bf0e66$124f4060$7296b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Receivers Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:17:26 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All from PA0SE Bob, ZL2CA wrote: >I am not aware of a >standard test method to produce measured results of how a receiver >performs in noise to signal ratio situations (especially with impulse >QRN on LF), but that particular aspect would be of great interest to >this discussion group. What an excellent treatise by Bob. Well done! I tested the impulse response of my 35 Hz wide audio bandpass filter by feeding an audio signal at the centre frequency to it, chopped by a relay contact; the relay being driven from a multivibrator at a speed corresponding to dots of the morse code. The output signal of the filter is viewed on a oscilloscope. The timebase is triggered by the multivibrator so that a steady picture is presented on the screen. Take care of proper source and load impedances! My filter shows after the response to each audio block ends a second response, but much smaller than the main one. The slopes of the blocks of audio become rounded of course. By increasing the repetition speed one can observe where the "dots" run together, which is the limit of the speed that can be handled. However it is more realistic to listen to the output of the filter. It is then easy to determine what the maximum number of words per minute is the filter can pass. You can do the same with some circuit analysis programs for the computer. This is what Harry, PA0LQ, did who designed the prototype of the filter I use. The same test can be performed on a receiver by chopping the output of a signal generator connected to the antenna-input. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28152 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 18:30:55 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 18:30:55 +0100 Received: (qmail 31288 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 17:30:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 17:30:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11YBVk-0004r9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 18:02:52 +0100 Received: from hugo.fen.baynet.de ([194.95.193.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11YBVi-0004r4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 18:02:51 +0100 Received: from 194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de (dialin-nbg-106.fen.baynet.de [195.37.210.240]) by hugo.fen.baynet.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA08187 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 19:01:23 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <003601bf0e92$9f0b5f80$f0d225c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de> From: "Walter Staubach" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: re Dave's Comment on filters Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 19:00:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by hugo.fen.baynet.de id TAA08187 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hallo Mike, many thanks for the first slow-cw-qso to G-land from my home-qth JN59NO. Power was 60Watts and antenna 6 wires ~52 meters each and spaced 50cm, up 11 to 8 meters.Receiver transceiver IC729. 73 Walter DJ2LF -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Mike Dennison An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Datum: Samstag, 2. Oktober 1999 11:52 Betreff: Re: LF: re Dave's Comment on filters G3NYK wrote: > I must admit to being a little confused now. I am told a 500Hz > filter is not good enough for 136, but the theoretical advantage of a > 300Hz filter is only a couple of dB better, I believe. A 100Hz filter > would have a theoretical advantage of 7dB (I believe) this should be the > same as going from 2.5kHz to 500Hz (where I find the practical advantage > more like 3-4dB). Yes there is a lot of QRM on HF cw and you need to > isolate a signal to listen to. My experience (with 'inexperienced cw ears' > !) is that I don't get the theoretical advantage by going to narrow > filters. Am I missing something? or am I maybe not sufficiently practiced > to take full advantage of the difference? I guess as Toni says that 1 to > 2dB can make the difference between working a station and not working it. > > I can hear, and copy, most of the signals on 136 with a 2.5KHz SSB filter, > and I don't get trouble from DCF39. I use lower sideband and put the > carrier at 138.05 or 138.10. With a cheaper rx like the Lowe HF150 the SSB > filter does not have steep enough skirts (and there is no cw option) and > the carrier of DCF39 is only 60dB down, and I get a light trace of the > signal on the waterfall display. Now listening like this does mean you > have to tune the 'grey matter filter' to morse at frequencies up to about > 2kHz. My tally of calls was about 20 or so listening like that, and it > gave me the incentive to get better gear. On a receiver with a decent SSB > filter shape factor the signal from DCF39 is 90dB down and no trouble > (provided the front end has enough dynamic range) > > I'm keen to get a few tens of dBs advantage on weak signals over the band > noise but I'm afraid I dont see it as a reality yet. The problem seems to > be that those last few dBs are beginning to get expensive now. Ah, the key words here are "grey matter". The DSP in the brain is far superior to anything you can get from MFJ, but only for certain things. Certainly, the theoretical advantage in signal/noise of a narrower filter is never achieved in practice with reception by ear because the brain is able to do its own filtering. The main advantage of a narrow filter is in reducing QRM which the brain has difficulty filtering out. And perhaps Alan would find the need for a narrower filter if he had to copy all of a QSO. I use a 500Hz filter - the shape factor of the SSB filter in the IC-706 is too poor for 136 - but have not felt the need to spend the money on a 250Hz filter. My score of 70 stations heard on 136 demonstrates how good the Rx is. I do agree, though, that an absolute beginner may well have problems with a wider filter because he/she may not be experienced in digging signals out of the noise (the brain's DSP needs some programming) and often there will be spurious mixing products audible in-band until the beginner realises just how good the front end needs to be. I am sure there must have been many people who gave up when they could not get anywhere near the noise floor. Of course, narrower filters (including DSP) can be useful and will give the brain a rest, so I am not suggesting that they should not be used. I have a DSP filter on my bench but do not often use it as I rarely find it improves on what the ear/brain combination can do. One last point, someone (Vaino, perhaps) commented that some contest operators do not use narrow filters. Yes, this is common because in a contest most stations are both strong and off frequency, and overs are too short to do much fiddling with the Rx. So using too narrow a filter will result in lost contacts. The beauty of a DSP filter is that, once tuned in, a weak signal or one very close to QRM can be quickly selected by progressively reducing the bandwidth without retuning - something that is difficult to do with switched analogue filters. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29140 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 18:34:40 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 18:34:40 +0100 Received: (qmail 16585 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 17:40:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 17:40:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11YBVZ-0004r2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 18:02:41 +0100 Received: from hugo.fen.baynet.de ([194.95.193.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11YBVY-0004qx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 18:02:40 +0100 Received: from 194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de (dialin-nbg-106.fen.baynet.de [195.37.210.240]) by hugo.fen.baynet.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA08132 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 19:01:12 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <003401bf0e92$982c08e0$f0d225c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de> From: "Walter Staubach" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Receivers Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:50:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by hugo.fen.baynet.de id TAA08132 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hallo to You all from DJ2LF About receivers/transceivers for lf: I use the the IC729 (=IC728+6m) with 500Hz filter. I think it`s rather good for big antenna, not for loops. My location in a small village has less man-made-noise, no Loran. So-as we say in German- I "hear the grass growing",hi. 73 Walter DJ2LF -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Peter Dodd An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Datum: Sonntag, 3. Oktober 1999 10:35 Betreff: Re: LF: Receivers > >> There's been some discussion about filters etc recently which reminded me of >> a question I wanted to ask the group... >> What receivers/tranceivers work well on LF? and possibly.. >> What receivers or transceivers don't work very well? > >> All I need is something like this: > >> IC735; rather deaf, needs external preamp/filter. >> TS850; excellent, especially with two CW filters. > >The receiver itself in not the whole story. >In the early days of 73kHz experiments I used an old IC-707 with a >Datong converter. I found its performance was very poor with lots of >birdies and breakthrough. On a visit to Mike, G3XDV, I listened to >his 73kHz setup, which comprised the same Daytong converter but with >an IC 706 as the tunable IF. His receive setup sounded totally >different with nice crisp sound and the occasional 'gunshot' static. >The difference in performance was the result of Mike using a tuned >circuit preselector and a carefully adjusted variable attenuator. > >Much of my early work on 73kHz and 136kHz was done using a Drake 4C >with 1500, 500 and 200Hz Sherwood filters and first IF roofing filter >- with a double-tuned circuit preselector and a variable attentuator >(potentiometer). and I was happy with this (except for poor frequency readout). > >When 136kHz became available my main problem was Loran. This holds >the S-meter at S6 at 1.5kHz bandwidth and at narrower bandwidths the >filter rings due to the Loran. John, G4GVC, was having more success >on receive than most and after hearing John's TS-850 receiver setup, >I bought a second-hand TS-850. The filters and bandwidth control, >plus 3+OFF AGC setting make this the best receiver I have ever used >in over 40 years of Ham Radio. But it still needs a preselector and >variable attenuator to get the best out of it. > >My feeling is that if Loran is not a problem at your QTH then any >modern transceiver that has good sensitivity at LF and has a CW >filter will work provided that the gain distribution throughout the >receive system (antenna, converter, receiver front-end, audio) is >under control. The component between the headphones also contributes >to receiver efficiency. I find that a 500kHz filter is the best in >the presence of Loran. > >However, I recently asked if anyone knew of a Level Meter D2155 made >by Siemens that I recently aquired. I got no response so I assume >that no one knows about it. So I decided to try it as a very good >receiver, and it seems very good except that the bandwidths of 3.7kHz >and 20Hz are a bit strange. With the narrow filter on I do not hear >Loran and it converts all signals and noise to a single note but it >does not ring. A normal CW signal stands out but is rather 'soft'. >I used it for the first time this morning, 3/10/99, and the fist >signal received was (I think) DL calling CQ on 136.54. The D2155 was >not tuned quite onto him before he went over. The next signal was >G4GVC and we had a QSO. John's signal was -80dBm. G3BDQ called me but >I had to go QRT. His signal was -78dBm. You may all be getting a >different type of report from me in the future! > >Next Tuesday morning I will be running tests on 72.1kHz on Slow CW >and listening/looking on that band and on the 136kHz band for >replies. If you want a sked let me know. > > > >-- >Regards, Peter, G3LDO > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16511 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 21:13:17 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 21:13:17 +0100 Received: (qmail 24262 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 20:12:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 20:12:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11YECN-0006Eb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 20:55:03 +0100 Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11YECM-0006EW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 20:55:03 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:54:25 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de (PC10886.dial.uni-kiel.de [134.245.108.86]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA13376 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:55:00 +0200 (MET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37F905E3.4C84BEC@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 21:54:11 +0200 From: "Peter W. Schnoor" Organization: University of Kiel, Clinic of Nephrology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: LORAN-C Worm... References: <003401bf0e92$982c08e0$f0d225c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello, Walter Staubach wrote: > [...] no Loran. So-as we > say in German- I "hear the grass growing" [...] Lucky man! At North Germany the sound of "growing grass" appears as a rattling noise. Placed my "Full Scan Graphic Worm" of the 137 kHz band from July with additional remarks there: http://www.qsl.net/df3lp/projects.html Comments and corrections are welcome! 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17127 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 21:15:38 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 21:15:38 +0100 Received: (qmail 24537 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 20:15:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 20:15:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11YEFJ-0006F4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 20:58:05 +0100 Received: from mail1.dada.it ([195.110.96.68] helo=mail.dada.it) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11YEFH-0006Ez-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 20:58:03 +0100 Received: (qmail 9992 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 19:52:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cestag) (195.110.103.226) by mail.dada.it with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 19:52:07 -0000 Message-ID: <000a01bf0ea2$d2c3c780$e2676ec3@cestag> From: "cesare tagliabue" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: newcomer Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:57:03 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
    Dear friends
    I'm a newcomer on this reflector, as well in the LF band, starting only 7 months ago, while my activity on HF bands
began in 1947 ! I'm living just in the town of Florence, so having great problems with the antenna for 137 Kc.
    Nevertheless I put at present about 15 or 20 milliwatts on the air and hope someone can hear my weak signals !
    You can see some pictures of LF equipment in my web page http://www.dadacasa.com/i5tgc
 I find the messages on the reflector very interesting.
            best 73    
                            Cesare Tagliabue  I 5 TGC   E-Mail  cestag@dada.it
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14572 invoked from network); 5 Oct 1999 17:38:17 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 5 Oct 1999 17:38:17 +0100 Received: (qmail 17015 invoked from network); 5 Oct 1999 16:44:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Oct 1999 16:44:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11YVeD-0006oi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Oct 1999 15:32:57 +0100 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11YVe8-0006oc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Oct 1999 15:32:57 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 11YVer-0006Dw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:33:37 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Tue, 05 Oct 1999 15:18:15 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:18:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: 73kHz X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A couple of tests on 73kHz have flagged up a possible problem on ther band. I transmitted for some of the evening of Monday 4 Oct on 71.91kHz but was not audible with G3YXM. I also listened for Dave's signals but could not hear him either. This is despite us having a QSO last winter and my antenna system being much better since then. My sked with G3LDO also failed both ways on Tuesday morning. previously I was able to copy Peter consistently at 549. Although he had never heard me, my 136kHz signal has gone up 2 s-points since our last try on 73 so I had a reasonable assumption that it would be easy. A possible answer is that the Rugby signal on 73.0kHz appears to have bigger noise sidebands and is raising the noise floor at 1kHz or so out. A quick test with a directional antenna reduced the noie floor but I still could not hear Peter. We are carrying out another test tomorrow morning (6 Oct) between 0700 and 0745UTC, and I will be transmitting a beacon this evening. Has anyone else noticed increased white noise on 73 recently? Since my activity on the band is very sporadic and my antenna changes in between it is difficult to do a proper comparison myself. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20647 invoked from network); 5 Oct 1999 23:29:35 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 5 Oct 1999 23:29:35 +0100 Received: (qmail 4561 invoked from network); 5 Oct 1999 22:29:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Oct 1999 22:29:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Ycsb-0002Bh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Oct 1999 23:16:17 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.138] helo=spdmgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Ycsa-0002Bc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Oct 1999 23:16:16 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id SAA26094 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:16:10 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:15:49 -0400 From: "Prof R. Jennison" Subject: LF: 73kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199910051815_MC2-87BD-E206@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike and Peter, I did not hear either of you but I then put my own beacon on in the hope that I might be heard on normal cw. I will try again tomorrow but I have had no reception reports, and have heard no other hams, for many months on 73. I will also try again tomorrow. 73, Roger, G2AJV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9856 invoked from network); 6 Oct 1999 04:22:15 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Oct 1999 04:22:15 +0100 Received: (qmail 9890 invoked from network); 6 Oct 1999 03:28:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Oct 1999 03:28:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11YhGm-0004cf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 03:57:32 +0100 Received: from mashie.force9.net ([195.166.128.30]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11YhGk-0004ca-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 03:57:31 +0100 Received: (qmail 32694 invoked from network); 5 Oct 1999 21:30:33 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 5 Oct 1999 21:30:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 15193 invoked from network); 5 Oct 1999 21:30:33 -0000 Received: from a189-07-02.dial.plus.net.uk (HELO main) (195.166.140.189) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Oct 1999 21:30:33 -0000 Message-ID: <00dd01bf0f79$6491cf00$0600a8c0@main> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: SM / G Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:34:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all, Myself and John G4GVC both had good QSOs with Christer SM6PXJ tonight about 2030utc. He was almost as loud as OH1TN at times. My first new country for ages! Thanks Christer. 73, Dave G3YXM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6439 invoked from network); 6 Oct 1999 06:38:18 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Oct 1999 06:38:18 +0100 Received: (qmail 20042 invoked from network); 6 Oct 1999 05:44:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Oct 1999 05:44:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Yjdb-0005to-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 06:29:15 +0100 Received: from ds-img-rel-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.140] helo=spdmraaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11YjdZ-0005tj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 06:29:14 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) id BAA22884 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 01:29:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave (host62-6-120-8.host.btclick.com [62.6.120.8]) by spdmraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) with SMTP id BAA22844 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 01:29:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000801bf0fbb$8d3190c0$0878063e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: 73kHz sked Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:34:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Message written by G3XDV Received: (qmail 2212 invoked from network); 6 Oct 1999 10:35:50 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Oct 1999 10:35:50 +0100 Received: (qmail 15250 invoked from network); 6 Oct 1999 09:41:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Oct 1999 09:41:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Yn93-0007jU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 10:13:57 +0100 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Yn92-0007jP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 10:13:56 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 11YnA2-0006pS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:14:59 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 10:13:00 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:12:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: 73kHz - bad news X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Peter, G3LDO, and I transmitted beacons on 71.70kHz this morning in an attempt to check whether our abortive tests of yesterday were connected with the noise coming from Rugby. This frequency is as far away as it is possible to get without getting QRM from the Decca beacins. I was able to hear Peter on my Marconi , but in the noise. Using my 1m loop antenna, carefully positioned, I could bring him up to 549. Interestingly, even that far away in frequency from the Rugby transmission I could bring up the noise by a significant amount by rotating the loop. The conclusion is that the Rugby RTTY transmission now has significant white noise sidebands, extending up the band edges (perhaps beyond). This ties in with reports I have had from others. The noise is over 3kHz wide, even with the signal nulled to about S9. Any useful work on the band will need the transmitter to be off for maintenance. It is possible to have QSOs if you use the lowest frequency you can without getting QRM from the Decca beacons - I think 71.7 is about optimum - and use a directional antenna to null out the Rugby signal. I have posted on my web site a page showing spectrograms of Peter's normal speed CW, and a comparison between the noise levels at 71.7 and 72.1kHz (it's no wonder I didn't hear Peter yesterday on 72.1). Note that these pictures are with the loop antenna nulling out Rugby - so there is no question of Rx overload. Peter will be listening for me tomorrow morning when I will be beaconing between 0700 and 0745UTC. Thanks to Alan G3NYK, Roger G2AJV and others for taking the trouble to listen. (Roger, I will be listening between beacon transmissions so give me a call if you hear me). Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10692 invoked from network); 6 Oct 1999 11:00:13 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Oct 1999 11:00:13 +0100 Received: (qmail 25703 invoked from network); 6 Oct 1999 09:59:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Oct 1999 09:59:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Ynd3-0007zG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 10:44:57 +0100 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Ynd2-0007zB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 10:44:56 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 11Yne4-0002mC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:46:01 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 10:37:03 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:37:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: 73 web page X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: My last e-mail referred to a web page showing the results of the 73kHz tests. I forgot to mention the URL - and it was put up in a few minutes so is not yet linked from anywhere else yet. It is at: http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/g3ldo73.htm Mike From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26416 invoked from network); 6 Oct 1999 22:59:45 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Oct 1999 22:59:45 +0100 Received: (qmail 19916 invoked from network); 6 Oct 1999 22:05:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Oct 1999 22:05:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11YygV-0005OI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 22:33:15 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.138] helo=spdmgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11YygU-0005OD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 22:33:14 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id RAA03677 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:32:40 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:31:27 -0400 From: "Prof R. Jennison" Subject: LF: 73kHz - bad news To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199910061731_MC2-87E4-281B@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike et al, Thank you for the possible explanation of the 73 kHz blackout. I wonder if Rugby may have started to use spread spectrum in parallel with its normal system. Unfortunately I cannot be on the air tomorrow (Thursday morning). Before receiving my email today, and on the assumption that I still had an unknown fault in my system, I tried to adust part of the loop antenna that was having a tete a tete with the foliage of a tree. I had lowered it so that it was about 18 feet above the ground, I then climbed the ladder to adjust the situation when suddenly the ladder slipped and I travelled in a beautiful arc, landing on my shoulder, then my head and finally the rest of me! No real damage - just a bit of a headache, stiffness and aching but I got a severe ticking off from my wife - "your nearly 77 and you think you are still a schoolboy" - or words to that effect. Anyway she would not let me go out again to finish the job so I'll have to sneak out tomorrow but will not be able to do any tests before about 11 a.m. From what you say about Rugby , Mike, it seems that all the overhauling that I've been doing on my rig for the past few months may have been a fool's errand. Your report on the very high background noise level makes much more sense but was completely unexpected. I will try to ensure that my system is on top form for the H.F. Convention on Sunday morning but, after the experience of the last few months, and especially the last few days, I do not anticipate much luck. 73, Roger, G2AJV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 338 invoked from network); 6 Oct 1999 23:12:22 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Oct 1999 23:12:22 +0100 Received: (qmail 6501 invoked from network); 6 Oct 1999 22:11:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Oct 1999 22:11:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Yyyq-0005Y9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 22:52:12 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail1-gui.server.ntli.net ([194.168.222.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Yyyp-0005Y3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 22:52:12 +0100 Received: from cableol.co.uk ([194.168.18.56]) by mail1-gui.server.ntli.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-33929U70000L2S50) with ESMTP id AAA20075 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:37:46 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37FBBFAA.68BC3E55@cableol.co.uk> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 22:31:22 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: 136 kHz Bandplan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: It is my understanding that, by gentleman's agreement, QRSS operation (slow-CW/visual-CW) normally takes place within the range 137.4 - 137.8 kHz. For many months this arrangement did seem to work well. But, in August, I reported to the LF Group that I had heard weak QRSS signals during a weekend on 137.1 kHz - making it difficult to copy DX signals running conventional CW in the range 137.0 - 137.2 kHz. Unfortunately, I have once again heard the use of QRSS in the low part of the band. But this time the signals were very strong, and - even worse - were present for most of last weekend, making use of the bottom end of the band virtually impossible at my QTH. (But there is some good news: conventional CW operators do seem to be respecting the 'narrowband' status of the 137.4 - 137.8 kHz segment.) I am interested to know why the present arrangements fail to meet the needs of all QRSS operators. Perhaps someone would be kind enough to let me know . . . . Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG steve.rawlings@cableol.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2799 invoked from network); 6 Oct 1999 23:21:45 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Oct 1999 23:21:45 +0100 Received: (qmail 25386 invoked from network); 6 Oct 1999 22:27:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Oct 1999 22:27:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11YzDo-0005fs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 23:07:40 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11YzDn-0005fn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 23:07:39 +0100 Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:06:42 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de (PC108162.dial.uni-kiel.de [134.245.108.162]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA02946 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:07:17 +0200 (MET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37FBC7E3.CEF6780C@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 00:06:27 +0200 From: "Peter W. Schnoor" Organization: University of Kiel, Clinic of Nephrology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SM / DL... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello, Just (21:04z) worked my first SM, SM4DHN, Lars, with 439/439, normal CW, distance approx. 675km. My country No.11. Good signal from Sweden but heavy local QRM from neighborhood and some lightning crashes. 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3512 invoked from network); 6 Oct 1999 23:24:47 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Oct 1999 23:24:47 +0100 Received: (qmail 26173 invoked from network); 6 Oct 1999 22:30:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Oct 1999 22:30:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11YzCJ-0005ff-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 23:06:07 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11YzCI-0005fZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 23:06:06 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA26000 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:06:00 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <1999100623191168199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:19:11 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz - bad news Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Mike > The conclusion is that the Rugby RTTY transmission now has > significant white noise sidebands, extending up the band edges > (perhaps beyond). This ties in with reports I have had from others. > The noise is over 3kHz wide, even with the signal nulled to about S9. I checked out the sidebands of the growler using spectrogram and they are symetrical about the centre frequency so there is not much point in looking for a place at the top of the band. > Peter will be listening for me tomorrow morning when I will be > beaconing between 0700 and 0745UTC. I will also 'look' for the signal. I have checked out my transmitting system and it seems to be working as well as it did a year ago. The lack of success with QSOs on this band appears to be due to an increase in noise due to a different 'growler' modulation, which appears digital on the spectrogram. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10308 invoked from network); 6 Oct 1999 23:48:28 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Oct 1999 23:48:28 +0100 Received: (qmail 11562 invoked from network); 6 Oct 1999 22:47:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Oct 1999 22:47:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Yzg9-0005w7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 23:36:57 +0100 Received: from mb04.swip.net ([193.12.122.208]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Yzg8-0005w2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 23:36:56 +0100 Received: from s-257519 (d212-151-34-186.swipnet.se [212.151.34.186]) by mb04.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA11635; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:36:46 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <001001bf104b$629fe1a0$ba2297d4@s-257519> From: "Johan Bodin" To: homebrew@qth.net, lowfer@qth.net, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: DGPS reception using the phasing method Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:37:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi dear Homebrewers & Lowfers! I got a Garmin GPS 12 receiver on my birthday which immediately resulted in wild plans to build a DGPS beacon receiver ;-) I want to try a phasing SSB receiver with about 500 Hz output. The reason for using 500 Hz IF is that there is free PIC software available for synchronizing onto a "hard-limited" MSK signal at 500 Hz and converting it into a RTCM-104 data stream that can be sent to a GPS receiver. The rejection of unwanted sideband is not as important as in the case of serious HF work since the DGPS beacon of interest is always the nearest (and strongest) one. Since the next-to-strongest beacon cannot be stronger than the strongest one (;-), I guess that 20 dB rejection (or so..) would be sufficient. The audio phase shift networks I have seen so far (in the R2 receiver etc.) are designed to give a 90 degree phase shift over the entire speech band which is a frequency decade! The bandwidth of the MSK beacon signals is just a few hundred Hz (100 or 200 baud). I guess the phase shifter can be made quite simple (I want to make the receiver as small as possible). Well... to the point... I am searching for a simple circuit that is able to phase shift two signals, in the range 300 to 700 Hz, by 90 degrees (+/- 1 degree or so) with respect to each other, without introducing any large amplitude differencies between the two channels. The phase, and amplitude, response outside the above mentioned frequency range is irrelevant, a good bandpass filter will follow after "the I/Q summing point" anyway. Any ideas? 73 de Johan Bodin, SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27549 invoked from network); 7 Oct 1999 09:14:19 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Oct 1999 09:14:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 11210 invoked from network); 7 Oct 1999 08:20:28 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Oct 1999 08:20:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Z8D5-0001xp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 08:43:31 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Z8D4-0001xk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 08:43:30 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA08521 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:50:11 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991007094333.2d8701d2@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 09:43:33 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: activity 6 oct. 99 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Checked the band last night between 19.30 and 21.00 UT and heard a lot of activity (at least for during the week) : G4GVC 559 (450km) G3KEV 589 (510km) DF3LP 539 (515km) GW4ALG 539 (520km) SM4DHN 539 (1150km) Static was still high, bringing the 539 signals down to 439 for some time. I heard Lars (SM4DHN) CQ-ing and in QSO with G3KEV and DF3LP. I called him several times, but without result :( My actual DXCC status on 136kHz is 15 counties heard (EI, GM, GW, G, F, PA, ON, LX, OH, SM, OZ, DL, OK, HB9 and I) and 11 countries worked (GM, GW, G, F, PA, ON, LX, OH, DL, HB9 and I). 73, Rik ON7YD Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18069 invoked from network); 7 Oct 1999 10:24:58 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Oct 1999 10:24:58 +0100 Received: (qmail 7747 invoked from network); 7 Oct 1999 09:24:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Oct 1999 09:24:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Z9Cx-0002Y4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 09:47:27 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111] helo=gadolinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Z9Cw-0002Xz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 09:47:26 +0100 Received: from [212.140.24.114] (helo=default) by gadolinium with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11Z9Cr-0001Fw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:47:21 +0100 Message-ID: <000301bf109f$ea7bf560$72188cd4@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: 73kHz Thurs 7th Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:41:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Peter, Mike, and Roger. Strange this morning....2 signals appeared on the screen almost simulataneously at a reading of 71.703kHz. It took a few minutes to realise that these were separate signals, but the stronger one with me drifted a few Hz hf. The weaker signal, steady on 71.703, had all the signs of being Mike (same frequency and about the same strength as yesterday) transmitting normal speed morse. I wonder whether the stronger signal was Roger, (or Peter). Both transmission ceased at almost the same time (0714z and a bit) The stronger one did not reappear, but the weaker steady signal reappeared at 0720 (or was it 0726? Ambiguity due to poor logging and a computer clocks running about 6 mins slow) and ceased at 0732 with a short burst at 0738. The last period has the signs of being a 'final over' so I assume Mike completed a qso with Peter. I only just copy Mike on spectrogram at maximum resolution, I had no sign of Peter's transmissions between Mike's overs. Although the stronger early transmission beginning at 0700z did show on FFTDSP4 it was just too weak to hear audibly. My inadequate aerial is well known so the strengths received are not signficant, better could be achieved with more application, as some of my school reports said. I had a weak sweeping mains buzz, which could be heard in the speaker but which did not seem to disrupt spectrogram too much. The aerial that just about works at 136 is showing its weakness at the more difficult lower frequency. Thanks for providing something to listen to on 73, its been a bit barren for me up to now. 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24162 invoked from network); 7 Oct 1999 10:47:09 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Oct 1999 10:47:10 +0100 Received: (qmail 10657 invoked from network); 7 Oct 1999 09:46:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Oct 1999 09:46:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Z9XC-0002jJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 10:08:22 +0100 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Z9XA-0002jE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 10:08:21 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 11Z9Y5-0001Wl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:09:18 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 10:08:05 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:08:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz - bad news In-reply-to: <199910061731_MC2-87E4-281B@compuserve.com> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G2AJV wrote: > Thank you for the possible explanation of the 73 kHz blackout. I wonder > if Rugby may have started to use spread spectrum in parallel with its > normal system. Funnily enough, that is a possibility that Peter, G3LDO, and myself were discussing this morning. The noise appears to decay fairly linearly with frequency, whereas I might expect it to be more exponential if it were oscillator sidebands. > I then climbed > the ladder to adjust the situation when suddenly the ladder slipped and I > travelled in a beautiful arc, landing on my shoulder, then my head and > finally the rest of me! No real damage - just a bit of a headache, > stiffness and aching but I got a severe ticking off from my wife. > I'll have to sneak out tomorrow but will not be able to do any tests > before about 11 a.m. Take care!! > From what you say about Rugby , Mike, it seems that all the > overhauling that I've been doing on my rig for the past few months may > have been a fool's errand. Your report on the very high background noise > level makes much more sense but was completely unexpected. Hmm, you may be right. I'm not sure when the noise level increased as I had not been on 73 for a few months but I was puzzled that G0MRF received me so weakly a few weeks ago. > I will try to ensure that my system is on top form for the H.F. > Convention on Sunday morning but, after the experience of the last few > months, and especially the last few days, I do not anticipate much luck. I will take my crude but effective 1m loop antenna with me in case that helps the convention station on 73. I am determined to have some more QSOs on 73 before we lose it so will concentrate on noise reduction by (1) directivity, (2) cancellation and (3) DSP. In the meantime, we need to use frequencies as low as possible. The experience of the convention station may be useful in determining what (and how bad) the problem is. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26845 invoked from network); 7 Oct 1999 10:52:49 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Oct 1999 10:52:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 11188 invoked from network); 7 Oct 1999 09:52:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Oct 1999 09:52:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Z9Xc-0002jQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 10:08:48 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.31] (helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Z9Xa-0002jL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 10:08:47 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.150.226]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA3F34 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:08:41 +0200 Message-ID: <000601bf10a4$c3dec220$e296b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: DGPS reception using the phasing method Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:16:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Johan, Harry, PA0LQ, has a computer programma by which he can design a network like you want, using opamps and he is willing to do that for you. I suggest you sent Harry a letter, confirming the specs in your e-mail and your address. If you want better accuracy than 1 degree (40 dB sideband suppression) Harry can accommodate that as well, but it means more stages in the network of course. Harry's address is: H.A.A. Grimbergen, PA0LQ Lijtweg 1202 2341 HE Oegstgeest The Netherlands Harry has no e-mail or fax facility. 73, Dick, PA0SE JO22GD D.W. Rollema V.d. Marckstraat 5 2352 RA Leiderdorp The Netherlands Tel. +31 71 589 27 34 E-mail: d.w.rollema@gironet.nl -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Johan Bodin Aan: homebrew@qth.net ; lowfer@qth.net ; rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Datum: donderdag 7 oktober 1999 0:58 Onderwerp: LF: DGPS reception using the phasing method Hi dear Homebrewers & Lowfers! I got a Garmin GPS 12 receiver on my birthday which immediately resulted in wild plans to build a DGPS beacon receiver ;-) I want to try a phasing SSB receiver with about 500 Hz output. The reason for using 500 Hz IF is that there is free PIC software available for synchronizing onto a "hard-limited" MSK signal at 500 Hz and converting it into a RTCM-104 data stream that can be sent to a GPS receiver. The rejection of unwanted sideband is not as important as in the case of serious HF work since the DGPS beacon of interest is always the nearest (and strongest) one. Since the next-to-strongest beacon cannot be stronger than the strongest one (;-), I guess that 20 dB rejection (or so..) would be sufficient. The audio phase shift networks I have seen so far (in the R2 receiver etc.) are designed to give a 90 degree phase shift over the entire speech band which is a frequency decade! The bandwidth of the MSK beacon signals is just a few hundred Hz (100 or 200 baud). I guess the phase shifter can be made quite simple (I want to make the receiver as small as possible). Well... to the point... I am searching for a simple circuit that is able to phase shift two signals, in the range 300 to 700 Hz, by 90 degrees (+/- 1 degree or so) with respect to each other, without introducing any large amplitude differencies between the two channels. The phase, and amplitude, response outside the above mentioned frequency range is irrelevant, a good bandpass filter will follow after "the I/Q summing point" anyway. Any ideas? 73 de Johan Bodin, SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1801 invoked from network); 7 Oct 1999 20:39:32 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Oct 1999 20:39:32 +0100 Received: (qmail 2979 invoked from network); 7 Oct 1999 19:39:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Oct 1999 19:39:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZIqa-0007rf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 20:05:00 +0100 Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZIqY-0007ra-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 20:04:58 +0100 Received: from modem-88.argon.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.8.216] helo=default) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11ZIqS-0002Fh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:04:52 +0100 From: "Des Kostryca" To: "RSGB LF_Group" Subject: LF: First Contact (L.F.) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:09:13 -0700 Message-ID: <000f01bf113a$7fc11980$d808883e@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings all, Further to my posting a few weeks ago requesting advice on antennas I am happy to report success. Taking advantage of the recent dry settled wx I finished the antenna. My final choice was a 10 mtr vertical with 3 x 7 mtr horizontal wires. This was the option I was advised would be most effective. This was also my preferred option too and in a sense was forced upon me by practical considerations. My loading coil had no more room for extra turns and the 10 mtr vertical plus 3 x 7 mtr horizontal wires just came into resonance at abt 137 kHz. This pleased me since the resistance of the coil was already up to 15 Ohms and I did not wish to add to it. Final "tweaking" was achieved by dangling an old toroidal ring inside the coil former. I should explain that my remotely tuned variometer will only tune over 1KHz so the antenna needs to be close to resonance to start with. Today (Thursday afternoon) I was doing some wet/dry test to see how the antenna tuning alters from dry to wet. The past few days have been dry but today we had a solid 5 hrs rain so it was ideal to test the "wet" condition. Happily it only changes by about 300 Hz. Since all appeared to be ok I decided to put some "real power" to the antenna and check for insulation failure etc. Again all was well with about 10 Watts. Next I turned the power up to my present limit (about 30W) and again all was well. This seemed a good time of day to do such tests as no one would be operating due to the elevated levels of qrn/qrm. To my surprise I heard (over the qrm) a number of "key down" notes, working on the assumption that "if you can hear them, you can work em" theory I put out a cq call which was promptly answered by John (G4GVC) with a huge signal. Even with my lossy 3 stage BPF and a 2k5 pot attenuate Johns signal was easy copy. John gave me a 578 report which delighted me, its one thing to have amp meters "kicking" and SWR bridges telling me the match is ok but to have a "real" contact is much more convincing and makes all those hours of effort worth while. Someone described the operation on LF as "being the most exciting in years of operating". I totally agree and look forward to many more contacts on LF. I do not know if John is on this reflector but if so "Thanks John" for my first qso on LF. Just after that qso local qrm went sky-high as my two sons came home from school and fired up the Playstation so no more contacts possible today. If the wx permits I intend to be on-air again most mornings next week from Tuesday morning onwards so if any of you hear a weak M0AYF calling cq please give me a call. Sorry to drag this out but I wanted to thank all those on this list for their help and advice in the past and I felt the best way to do that was to share my success with you all. 73's all Des. Des Kostryca (M0AYF) G.Q.R.P. no. 9788 I.A.R.U. loc. IO93OJ W.A.B. SK89 Member of the N.B.T.V.A. Yaesu FT707 + Transverter, 30 Watt Mosfet P.A. feeding 10 Mtr Vertical with 3x7 Mtr horizontal loading wires. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12644 invoked from network); 7 Oct 1999 21:18:05 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Oct 1999 21:18:05 +0100 Received: (qmail 27399 invoked from network); 7 Oct 1999 20:24:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Oct 1999 20:24:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZJom-0008PA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 21:07:12 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZJol-0008P5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 21:07:11 +0100 Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:06:44 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de (PC108105.dial.uni-kiel.de [134.245.108.105]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA20712 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:07:20 +0200 (MET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37FCFD45.AF2772C9@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 22:06:29 +0200 From: "Peter W. Schnoor" Organization: University of Kiel, Clinic of Nephrology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SM4DHN CQ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello to all, SM4DHN calling CQ again with strong signal here. 2000z at 136.5 kHz. 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29151 invoked from network); 7 Oct 1999 22:16:21 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Oct 1999 22:16:21 +0100 Received: (qmail 4282 invoked from network); 7 Oct 1999 21:22:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Oct 1999 21:22:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZKis-0000PW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 22:05:10 +0100 Received: from mb04.swip.net ([193.12.122.208]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZKir-0000PR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 22:05:10 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer (d212-151-45-133.swipnet.se [212.151.45.133]) by mb04.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA22685 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:05:06 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000101bf1107$bf191ac0$852d97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SV: Re: DGPS reception using the phasing method Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:58:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Dick, thanks for the information regarding phasing networks. I will write a letter to Harry. 73 de Johan, SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9115 invoked from network); 8 Oct 1999 00:59:48 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 8 Oct 1999 00:59:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 9407 invoked from network); 7 Oct 1999 23:59:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Oct 1999 23:59:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZNIi-0001wL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 00:50:20 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZNIh-0001wG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 00:50:20 +0100 Received: from [62.6.10.140] (helo=default) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11ZNIf-0004JS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:50:17 +0100 Message-ID: <002101bf111e$0d29d680$8c0a063e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Des M0AYF Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:45:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Des I heard the G4GVC end of your qso, and found that I could just see a trace maybe 100Hz hf of John in the gaps beween his overs. My loop may not have been in a favourable position for you at the time (John comes in big where ever I point it). That's not bad for 30watts into a 10m vertical, well done. 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6907 invoked from network); 8 Oct 1999 06:52:45 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 8 Oct 1999 06:52:45 +0100 Received: (qmail 6401 invoked from network); 8 Oct 1999 05:52:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Oct 1999 05:52:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZSaH-0004mc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 06:28:49 +0100 Received: from as-img-rel-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.142] helo=spamraaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZSaG-0004mX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 06:28:48 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) id BAA27480 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 01:28:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave (host212-140-85-222.host.btclick.com [212.140.85.222]) by spamraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) with SMTP id BAA27443 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 01:28:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000301bf114d$cc482f60$de558cd4@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: 73KHz skeds Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:31:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC I gather from later mails that the tests between G3LDO and G3XDV may have been on QRSS. If that were the case then the interrupted carriers I heard on Tuesday and Wednesday may well have been them, and would have been Q5 copy on normal CW (admittedly buried somewhat in the noise). Since I also had various carriers around that frequency from local TVs (including a couple being soak tested downstairs!) it was not possible to attempt to copy the slow CW by ear. Point to note - identification in normal CW at frequent intervals would have helped very much in this case. 73s Dave G3YMC sergeantd@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23478 invoked from network); 8 Oct 1999 08:33:56 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 8 Oct 1999 08:33:56 +0100 Received: (qmail 14889 invoked from network); 8 Oct 1999 07:33:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Oct 1999 07:33:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZUPf-0005ji-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 08:25:59 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail1-gui.server.ntli.net ([194.168.222.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZUPe-0005jd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 08:25:58 +0100 Received: from cableol.co.uk ([194.168.18.75]) by mail1-gui.server.ntli.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-33929U70000L2S50) with ESMTP id AAA26108 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:11:39 +0100 Message-ID: <37FD95EF.C3B359FA@cableol.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 07:57:51 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: First Contact (L.F.) References: <000f01bf113a$7fc11980$d808883e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Des M0AYF wrote: > . . . . I put out a cq call which was promptly answered by > John (G4GVC) with a huge signal. Even with my lossy 3 stage BPF and a 2k5 > pot attenuate Johns signal was easy copy. John gave me a 578 report . . . . Well done Des! Thank you for the update: a very interesting account of how you made your first QSO. I'm also delighted that John has (once again) been the first QSO partner for yet another new station on the band. (What's the tally now, John?!) Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26949 invoked from network); 8 Oct 1999 08:54:20 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 8 Oct 1999 08:54:20 +0100 Received: (qmail 24474 invoked from network); 8 Oct 1999 08:00:36 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Oct 1999 08:00:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZUid-0005vM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 08:45:35 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZUic-0005vH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 08:45:34 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA14376 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:52:17 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991008094537.2d9f8456@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 09:45:37 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: first SM - ON MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Last night (7 october) arround 20.10 UT I worked Lars, SM4DHN, on 136.500kHz. despite strong QRN (even worse than the night before) Lars was a solid 559 here, I received a 429 report. The 'first' SM-ON on 136kHz and my country #12. Our QSO must have triggered DL3FDO as he started CQ-ing on exact the same frequency, fortunately just after the final 73's. I wasn't able to get DL3FDO's attention and as far as I could follow also Lars didn't work him. Arround 20.30 UT I heard DJ1RL (?) CQ-ing with a 339 signal (only Q3 due to strong QRN, signal was strong enough to be Q5 on a quite day) but I got no response to my reply's. As QRN got stronger and stronger I closed the station at 21.00 UT. Very big tnx to Lars for digging my weak signal out of the noise. 73, Rik ON7YD Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 280 invoked from network); 8 Oct 1999 09:11:18 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 8 Oct 1999 09:11:18 +0100 Received: (qmail 19160 invoked from network); 8 Oct 1999 08:10:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Oct 1999 08:10:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZUzn-00066g-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 09:03:19 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZUzk-00066Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 09:03:17 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA13640 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:09:58 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991008100318.222f501c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 10:03:18 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: msg for N4ICK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Sorry for being a bit 'off topic'. But if someone meets André Kesteloot (N4ICK) at the RSGB HF convention this weekend please tell him that I arranged a talk about 136kHz on friday 15 october in Leuven. I will fax all details to his sister. A overhead-projector will be available, if he needs something else (slide-projector) it can be arranged if I know in advance. In that case please a short message via e-mail early next week. In case someone wants to attend the meeting : it will be on friday 15 october at 20h (local time) at the radioclub 'De Antenne', Diestsevest in Leuven. 73, Rik ON7YD Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8479 invoked from network); 8 Oct 1999 09:48:15 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 8 Oct 1999 09:48:15 +0100 Received: (qmail 24733 invoked from network); 8 Oct 1999 08:47:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Oct 1999 08:47:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZVZZ-0006OH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 09:40:17 +0100 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZVZU-0006OC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 09:40:16 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 11ZVaQ-0001aK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:41:11 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 09:28:50 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:28:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: QSO with DJ2LF X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Received a QSL yesterday from Walter, DJ2LF, for our QSO last weekend on QRSs. I was delighted to see that it was not only Walter's first G contact, but was also my best DX at 835km - he is at JN59NO in SE Germany. Thanks, Walter. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8504 invoked from network); 8 Oct 1999 09:48:27 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 8 Oct 1999 09:48:27 +0100 Received: (qmail 24761 invoked from network); 8 Oct 1999 08:48:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Oct 1999 08:48:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZVZR-0006OA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 09:40:09 +0100 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZVZQ-0006O5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 09:40:08 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 11ZVaM-0001aB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:41:07 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 09:25:48 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:25:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: 73KHz skeds In-reply-to: <000301bf114d$cc482f60$de558cd4@dave> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > >From Dave G3YMC > > I gather from later mails that the tests between G3LDO and G3XDV may have > been on QRSS. If that were the case then the interrupted carriers I heard > on Tuesday and Wednesday may well have been them, and would have been Q5 > copy on normal CW (admittedly buried somewhat in the noise). > No, Dave, apart from one short transmission from me (copied by G3NYK) it was all at about 8-10WPM. We were both, however, using Spectrogram in order to be able to dig deeper into the noise than our ears could. A useful technique is to use both eyes and ears at the same time! > Point to note - identification in normal CW at frequent intervals would > have helped very much in this case. > Yes, when using slow CW, or indeed PSK31, it is important (though easy to forget) to send callsigns at normal speed. It is a legal requirement in the UK, at least every 15 minutes. Mike Dennison, G3XDV Publications Manager * RadCom * Ham Radio Today * GB2RS News * * RSGB Books and CDs * Radio Society of Great Britain Lambda House, Cranborne Road Potters Bar, Herts UK, EN6 3JE Tel: +44 (0) 1707 659015; Fax: +44 (0) 1707 645105 RSGB - UK AMATEUR RADIO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29529 invoked from network); 8 Oct 1999 11:01:19 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 8 Oct 1999 11:01:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 10443 invoked from network); 8 Oct 1999 10:07:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Oct 1999 10:07:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZWgx-000710-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 10:51:59 +0100 Received: from mail1.dada.it ([195.110.96.68] helo=mail.dada.it) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZWgv-00070t-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 10:51:58 +0100 Received: (qmail 9338 invoked from network); 8 Oct 1999 05:45:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cestag) (195.110.103.73) by mail.dada.it with SMTP; 8 Oct 1999 05:45:53 -0000 Message-ID: <001701bf1151$42e21840$49676ec3@cestag> From: "cesare tagliabue" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: info DCF39 Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:51:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Dear friends
        There is someone that can give me information about DCF39 ?
That is: output power, efficiency of the antenna, if power change from daytime to nigthtime.
All that for purpose of confirm the extimated efficiency of my antenna.
    Many thanks in advance
                                        Cesare I5TGC   cestag@dada.it
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7072 invoked from network); 8 Oct 1999 14:53:31 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 8 Oct 1999 14:53:31 +0100 Received: (qmail 4536 invoked from network); 8 Oct 1999 13:53:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Oct 1999 13:53:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZaFd-0000SD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 14:40:01 +0100 Received: from smtp.mail.big-orange.net ([143.179.236.31] helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZaFY-0000S4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 14:39:57 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.151.207]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA1873 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:39:47 +0200 Message-ID: <001001bf1193$d0dbe580$cf97b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: First Contact (L.F.) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:47:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All from PA0SE Des, M0AYF, wrote: >Greetings all, > > Further to my posting a few weeks ago requesting advice on antennas I am >happy to report success. Taking advantage of the recent dry settled wx I >finished the antenna. My final choice was a 10 mtr vertical with 3 x 7 mtr >horizontal wires. This was the option I was advised would be most effective. >This was also my preferred option too and in a sense was forced upon me by >practical considerations. My loading coil had no more room for extra turns >and the 10 mtr vertical plus 3 x 7 mtr horizontal wires just came into >resonance at abt 137 kHz. This pleased me since the resistance of the coil >was already up to 15 Ohms and I did not wish to add to it. Final "tweaking" >was achieved by dangling an old toroidal ring inside the coil former. I >should explain that my remotely tuned variometer will only tune over 1KHz so >the antenna needs to be close to resonance to start with. > >Today (Thursday afternoon) I was doing some wet/dry test to see how the >antenna tuning alters from dry to wet. The past few days have been dry but >today we had a solid 5 hrs rain so it was ideal to test the "wet" condition. >Happily it only changes by about 300 Hz. Since all appeared to be ok I >decided to put some "real power" to the antenna and check for insulation >failure etc. Again all was well with about 10 Watts. Next I turned the power >up to my present limit (about 30W) and again all was well. This seemed a >good time of day to do such tests as no one would be operating due to the >elevated levels of qrn/qrm. To my surprise I heard (over the qrm) a number >of "key down" notes, working on the assumption that "if you can hear them, >you can work em" theory I put out a cq call which was promptly answered by >John (G4GVC) with a huge signal. Even with my lossy 3 stage BPF and a 2k5 >pot attenuate Johns signal was easy copy. John gave me a 578 report which >delighted me, its one thing to have amp meters "kicking" and SWR bridges >telling me the match is ok but to have a "real" contact is much more >convincing and makes all those hours of effort worth while. Someone >described the operation on LF as "being the most exciting in years of >operating". I totally agree and look forward to many more contacts on LF. > >I do not know if John is on this reflector but if so "Thanks John" for my >first qso on LF. Just after that qso local qrm went sky-high as my two sons >came home from school and fired up the Playstation so no more contacts >possible today. If the wx permits I intend to be on-air again most mornings >next week from Tuesday morning onwards so if any of you hear a weak M0AYF >calling cq please give me a call. > >Sorry to drag this out but I wanted to thank all those on this list for >their help and advice in the past and I felt the best way to do that was to >share my success with you all. Dear Des, A delightful story Des that I certainly enjoyed very much! I hope LF will bring you many contacts and am looking forward to our first QSO. Your story also brought back happy memories of my own start on 2 km. August 24 last year I had completed my transmitter and did some testing around 1800 hrs UTC. Power had to be limited to about 70 watts because the tuning capacitor over the loading coil sparked over (now replaced by a vacuum one). Some amateurs in a town nearby listened for my signal and reported back via 2 m. Then PA0KSB (now a silent key) told me I was being called. And indeed, there was Peter, G3LDO! A fine QSO followed. Peter gave me RST549 and I received him at 459. With this first QSO on LF over 376 km Peter certainly made my day! The following weekend I did some beaconing and received 20 listener reports by telephone from Germany, Belgium, UK and all over my own country. >From then on I was firmly hooked! 73, Dick, PA0SE JO22GD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7511 invoked from network); 8 Oct 1999 16:23:06 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 8 Oct 1999 16:23:06 +0100 Received: (qmail 17717 invoked from network); 8 Oct 1999 15:22:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Oct 1999 15:22:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Zbc7-0001IX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 16:07:19 +0100 Received: from ah-img-rel-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.152] helo=hpamraaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Zbc6-0001IS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 16:07:18 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamraaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-REL-1.2) id LAA27016 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:07:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave (host62-6-116-241.host.btclick.com [62.6.116.241]) by hpamraaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-REL-1.2) with SMTP id LAA26952 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:07:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001601bf119e$a085ee20$f174063e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: 136 talk Bracknell Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:49:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Derek G3GRO is kindly repeating the 136 talk he recently presented to the Bracknell Club next Wednesday. All visitors are welcome. We hope to have some receiving capability so it would be appreciated if some of you could come on the band that evening between 8pm and 10pm local. Location: Coopers Hill Community Centre, Crowthorne Rd North, Bracknell (behind railway station) Time: 8pm Date: Wednesday 13the. October Derek's talk at Echelford a few months ago was well appreciated, and we are looking forward to an interesting evening. Cheers Dave G3YMC sergeantd@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11466 invoked from network); 9 Oct 1999 01:31:46 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 9 Oct 1999 01:31:46 +0100 Received: (qmail 30189 invoked from network); 9 Oct 1999 00:31:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Oct 1999 00:31:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Zjyq-0006B5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Oct 1999 01:03:20 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.39]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Zjyp-0006Ax-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Oct 1999 01:03:19 +0100 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id lCHX0oOFfX (3991) for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 20:03:02 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <0.15e0ca47.252fe036@aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 20:03:02 EDT Subject: LF: RSGB HF Convention To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 137 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The RSGB HF convention commenced today ( Friday) at Windsor apx 20 miles west of London. The convention features a number of lectures aimed at the LF community and has a LF demonstration station operating on 136 and 73kHz LW. It was particularly good to see Andre' N4ICK and Geri DK8KW making the long journey to the Berkshire countryside. After erecting a 100 metre wire antenna, operators of the LF demonstration station GB4RS, began testing at 17.00 UTC. First into the log once again was John G4GVC followed by Dave G3YXM. A QRS contact using spectrogram with G3XDV (North London) must rate as one of the shortest distance QSOs using this mode. O reports were exchanged both ways! However, it made an excellent demonstration of the mode and Mikes "callsign" will be returning to Russia on film as several visitors watched the QSO progress. GB4RS will be active throughout the weekend but particularly on Sunday when we will be starting at 05.30 UTC. The output power on 136 is around 1kW and the station should provide a good signal across the UK and the near continent. Should you hear the station in the next two days please call in and add your call to the log. >From 07.00 Sunday, for around 2 hours, the station will be operating on 71.7kHz using my call, G0MRF. Both CW and QRS will be used. As QSOs on this band are rare any reception reports or QSOs would be very welcome. Vy 73 David G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2731 invoked from network); 9 Oct 1999 08:03:54 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 9 Oct 1999 08:03:54 +0100 Received: (qmail 7235 invoked from network); 9 Oct 1999 07:10:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Oct 1999 07:10:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZqPM-00014p-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Oct 1999 07:55:08 +0100 Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZqPJ-00014j-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Oct 1999 07:55:06 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Sat, 9 Oct 1999 08:54:57 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de (PC108110.dial.uni-kiel.de [134.245.108.110]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA15866 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 08:55:34 +0200 (MET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37FEE6B3.7C3F3298@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 08:54:43 +0200 From: "Peter W. Schnoor" Organization: University of Kiel, Clinic of Nephrology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RSGB HF Convention References: <0.15e0ca47.252fe036@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings to Windsor, G0MRF@aol.com wrote: > > The RSGB HF convention commenced today ( Friday) at Windsor apx 20 miles > west of London. > [...] > After erecting a 100 metre wire antenna, operators of the LF demonstration > station GB4RS, began testing at 17.00 UTC. Very good copy here near Kiel Friday evening. Called you but no reply :( 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6682 invoked from network); 9 Oct 1999 11:56:18 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 9 Oct 1999 11:56:18 +0100 Received: (qmail 23427 invoked from network); 9 Oct 1999 11:02:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Oct 1999 11:02:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Ztup-0002xg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Oct 1999 11:39:51 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from disp.mindef.nl ([62.200.204.66] helo=u05.mindef.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Ztuo-0002xa-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Oct 1999 11:39:50 +0100 Received: from co.disp.mindef.nl (dial-081.pop2.mld.disp.net [62.200.207.81]) by u05.mindef.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA51F6 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 12:39:16 +0200 Message-ID: <37FF295D.A99DC4D4@co.disp.mindef.nl> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 12:39:12 +0100 From: "J.M. Valstar" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [nl]C-CCK-MCD QXW07201 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: nl,de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "RSGB LF Group" Subject: LF: Special Event Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Following msg I read in the Marinade periodical of the Marine Radio Amateur Club (MARAC). I think it's interesting enough for LF lovers. 73 Jaap Valstar/pa3guc quote 100 YEARS OF MARITIME RADIO IN GERMANY Special Event of the German Weather Services. QRX 22:30 utc 12 november 1999, 10 december 1999, 14 january 2000, 11 february 2000. QSS 147.3 kHz, mode CW, 100/120, Power 15-5-1-15 kW DWD-LW-Transmitter Pinneberg near Hamburg The Deutscher Wetterdienst (DWD) transmits - in cooperation with MF-Runde (Marine Funker) - a special broadcast to the public with its longwave transmitter DDH47 on frequency 147.3 kHz in morsecode. Short messages in different languages are transmitted to remember the inventors of wireless radio. Additional we want to find out, what are the longwave propagation conditions during nighttime and with different levels of emitted power. For receiption reports (RST) with name of the pioneer mentioned in the transmission, adress tag and postage fee (Europe 2 IRC, overseas 3 IRC) to the adress mentioned below, we send a "Special Events Certificate". Everyone is invited to listen to the transmission and send a report. There is no further charge for the certificate. Deadline is 31st March 2000. Deutscher Wetterdienst, Amateurfunkgruppe, Bernhard Nocht Str. 76, D 20359 Hamburg Germany unquote From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7697 invoked from network); 9 Oct 1999 18:03:41 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 9 Oct 1999 18:03:41 +0100 Received: (qmail 21803 invoked from network); 9 Oct 1999 17:10:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Oct 1999 17:10:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZzlS-00067n-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Oct 1999 17:54:34 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout10.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.158]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ZzlR-00067i-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Oct 1999 17:54:33 +0100 Received: from fwd12.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.172]) by mailout10.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 11ZzlP-0000U9-00; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 18:54:31 +0200 Received: (0607144537-0001(btxid)@[193.159.0.180]) by fwd12.btx.dtag.de id ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 18:54:15 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 18:54:15 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: qrss activity X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 0607144537-0001@t-dialin.net From: "bernd grupe" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, have a look to qrss-activity on saturday okt. 09.99; stored received pictures on my web-site: http://home.t-online.de/home/Bernd.Grupe/homepage.htm page: index 4.1.1: lf-activity/qsos/gram-rx 73 de bernd, DF8ZR/JN49JV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23062 invoked from network); 10 Oct 1999 03:32:09 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 10 Oct 1999 03:32:09 +0100 Received: (qmail 3487 invoked from network); 10 Oct 1999 02:38:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Oct 1999 02:38:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11a8RY-00028Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 03:10:36 +0100 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11a8RW-00028T-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 03:10:35 +0100 Received: from steve (beefcake.zeta.org.au [203.26.10.12]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA19487 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 12:12:31 +1000 Message-ID: <199910100212.MAA19487@mailman.zeta.org.au> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Steve Olney" To: "RSGB LF Group" Subject: LF: FDK tests Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 12:08:27 +1000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day All, Have just finished putting up some information about FDK (Frequency Difference Keying). If you are interested use the link in the sidebar on my main page at:- http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg/lowfer.htm or go directly to:- http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg/FDK.htm Any comments would be appreciated. 73s Steve Olney (VK2ZTO/AXSO - QF56IK : Lat -33 34 07, Long +150 44 40) ============================================= LowFer URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg/lowfer.htm AXSO LF Experimental Station URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg/axsoextx.htm LF Receiving - FRG-100, CHA antenna LF Transmitting - 177.5kHz 8W to 7.6m top-loaded vertical Modes - AM, SSB, PSK31, SSTV, Hellschreiber and QRSS ============================================= From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20127 invoked from network); 10 Oct 1999 10:59:53 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 10 Oct 1999 10:59:53 +0100 Received: (qmail 29434 invoked from network); 10 Oct 1999 09:59:02 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Oct 1999 09:59:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aErQ-0005Ld-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 10:01:44 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.41] helo=pyyhe.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aErP-0005LY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 10:01:43 +0100 Received: from default (MMMCMXXXVI.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.165.36]) by pyyhe.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA01195 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 12:10:30 +0300 (EET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991010120158.007b2a10@mail.dlc.fi> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: oh2lx@mail.dlc.fi (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 12:01:58 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: G3KEV heard In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.19991008094537.2d9f8456@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: We did some monitoring with Matti, OH2ZT. On the 9th Sept around 1930 UTC heard G3KEV calling cq on about 136.5 kHz QTH: 60:20:24.3 N 024:21:56.7 E (KP20EI41AS) AR-7030 Plus & 200m N/S wire laying on the ground. 73 de Vaino, OH2LX --------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2090 invoked from network); 10 Oct 1999 10:21:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 10 Oct 1999 10:21:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 30126 invoked from network); 10 Oct 1999 10:20:49 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Oct 1999 10:20:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aFyp-0005sd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 11:13:27 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.41] helo=pyyhe.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aFyo-0005sY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 11:13:26 +0100 Received: from default (MDCCXXVIII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.41.228]) by pyyhe.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA01409 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:22:13 +0300 (EET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991010131341.007b27b0@mail.dlc.fi> X-Sender: vaiski@mail.dlc.fi (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:13:41 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: G3KEV heard MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Sorry to be lagging behind one whole month...it is October now... Heard three Alpha VLF stations, the two 'extra' stations probably not active. de Vaino, OH2LX ---------- original -------------------- We did some monitoring with Matti, OH2ZT. On the 9th Sept around 1930 UTC heard G3KEV calling cq on about 136.5 kHz QTH: 60:20:24.3 N 024:21:56.7 E (KP20EI41AS) AR-7030 Plus & 200m N/S wire laying on the ground. 73 de Vaino, OH2LX --------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22115 invoked from network); 10 Oct 1999 13:47:13 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 10 Oct 1999 13:47:13 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aICr-0006zj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:36:05 +0100 Received: from mail11.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.23]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aICq-0006ze-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:36:04 +0100 Received: from modem-94.potassium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.9.94] helo=default) by mail11.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11aICm-0000cC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:36:01 +0100 From: "Des Kostryca" To: "RSGB LF_Group" Subject: LF: Re:First Contact. Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:40:29 -0700 Message-ID: <000301bf135f$b092e120$5e09883e@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Folks, Dick (PA0SE) wrote: >A delightful story Des that I certainly enjoyed very >much! >I hope LF will bring you many contacts and am >looking forward to our first >QSO. Thanks for the feedback on my tale of "First contact" with John (G4GVC) your comments are most encouraging. I look forward to making a few more qso's with the existing 30Watt set-up and then moving on to make some station improvements: Short term.... 1) A new bandpass filter (the existing one seems transparent :-) 2) C.W. audio filter. 3) A new loading coil (current model is a special high loss one) 4) A "cleaner" PSU (currently using an unregulated supply for the PA) 5) More copper pipe at the base of the antenna in an attempt to improve my earth. Longer term.... 6) A 150-300Watt Mosfet P.A. (final O/P power will depend on what PSU components I can find in my loft) 7) A bigger antenna (but only if the xyl will let me :-) very long term.... 8) A house with a bigger garden! Alan (G3NYK) wrote... >Hi Des I heard the G4GVC end of your qso, and >found that I could just see a >trace maybe 100Hz hf of John in the gaps between >his overs. Thanks Alan, I have also been told my signals could be heard (559) in Bracknell by Dave (G3YMC) which is very encouraging. I will always be happy to receive and respond to any signal reports from fellow lowfers or SWL's so please do not hesitate to drop me a line or give me a call. Providing the wind does not blow too hard I plan to keep the antenna up all next week (from 11/10/99) and work each morning from around 06:00 GMT (qrn/qrm permitting) so I hope to qso with some of you then. 73's to all. Des. Des Kostryca (M0AYF) G.Q.R.P. no. 9788 I.A.R.U. loc. IO93OJ W.A.B. SK89 Member of the N.B.T.V.A. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3560 invoked from network); 10 Oct 1999 17:42:46 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 10 Oct 1999 17:42:46 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aLsU-0000JC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 17:31:18 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from premium.inrete.it ([194.116.9.4] helo=mailer.inrete.it ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aLsS-0000J6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 17:31:17 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from cel266 (pool17-131.dialup.alpcom.it [194.116.17.131]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA30881 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 18:31:05 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991010172919.00818ab0@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 17:29:19 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: LF: Sat/Sunday activity from Italy In-reply-to: <000301bf135f$b092e120$5e09883e@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LF Folks, I had been active in QRSs on Saturday and Sunday. Managed a QSO with Petr OK1FIG, with excellent signals (329 by ear at the end of the QSO), my report M because of QRN. New country for me! Thank you Petr. Then QSO with DJ2LF, sent M, received O. Good and steady signal from Walter. HRD: DK8KW in QSO with GB4RS, rpt M, weak but readable. HRD Geri again at 1600z, tried to contact him, but his reply disappeared in the QRN. Sorry, Geri! The QSO is feasible in quiet conditions. GB4RS was a good O, called many times, isofrequency and 10 Hz up/down, but unable to get a reply. I've seen also other stations calling GB4RS without success in QRSs. Power currently 650W, a little down from the usual 950. No idea why ... dry weather, antenna seems OK, but current refuses to rise. 73 - Marco IK1ODO spin@inrete.it Rivalta, ITALY JN35SA (N 45 01' 25.6", E 7 31' 09.4") From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17696 invoked from network); 10 Oct 1999 18:55:58 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 10 Oct 1999 18:55:58 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aN4D-0000v6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 18:47:29 +0100 Received: from ds-img-rel-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.140] helo=spdmraaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aN4C-0000v1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 18:47:28 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) id NAA07168 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:47:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave (host62-6-116-57.host.btclick.com [62.6.116.57]) by spdmraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) with SMTP id NAA07092 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:47:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004901bf1347$557993a0$3974063e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: HF Convention - 73kHz Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 15:21:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Firstly may I say how nice it was to meet many of you at Windsor on Saturday, and I am sure we all gained a lot from it. We also had most interesting discussions over dinner and it was nice to discuss experiences with our continental and USA visitors. I can report that I heard G0MRF/P on 71.7kHz on Sunday morning 10th. October between 0645 and 0730z. Hash from Rugby was horrendous and David's signal was copyable with difficulty through this, at 379. Had the noise not been there the signal would have been perfect copy. I was unable to detect Peter G3LDO however during David's QSO with him. The distance of Beaumont from my QTH measured directly off the map is 11.25 km, hardly likely to break any records! 73s Dave G3YMC sergeantd@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16136 invoked from network); 10 Oct 1999 23:38:40 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 10 Oct 1999 23:38:40 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aRO8-000334-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 23:24:20 +0100 Received: from as-img-6.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.151] helo=spamgaaf.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aRO7-00032z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 23:24:19 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaaf.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id SAA00621 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 18:24:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 18:23:02 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "DEREK ATTER" Subject: LF: HF Convention - 73kHz QSO G3WSC/G0MRF To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199910101823_MC2-886E-A4BA@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Derek, G3GRO. Thoroughly enjoyed meeting friends old and new on Saturday during the LF gathering at the HF Convention. Thanks to all the organisers and excellent speakers and also to David G0MRF, Graham G3XTZ, et al for their hard work in setting up the LF station on 136Khz and 73Khz. The Convention special event station GB4RS was putting out a very strong signal on 136Khz into Crawley, West Sussex on Friday evening and I exchanged 599 reports with them while they were setting up. This morning (Sunday) at 10.15 UTC we fired up the Crawley Club station G3WSC again on 73 Khz and were very pleased to work David G0MRF at the Convention station hearing him at very readable 569 despite the fairly high noise level and received a 459 report through their local RF noise and high audio background level. The the equipment at G3WSC was a FT990 RX with 250hz IF BW and about 100Hz audio BW DSP filter. The TX was a modified BKE amplifier running at 250W RF into a 120m long inverted "L" at 20m above the ground. The equipment was on loan from Lech, G3KAU 73 to all from today's ops at the G3WSC club station - - From Stuart, G3YSX , Lech G3KAU , Derek G3GRO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15856 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 06:46:01 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 06:46:01 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aY6k-0006XM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 06:34:50 +0100 Received: from as-img-rel-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.142] helo=spamraaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aY6j-0006XH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 06:34:49 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) id BAA15373 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 01:34:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave (host212-140-125-225.host.btclick.com [212.140.125.225]) by spamraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) with SMTP id BAA15362 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 01:34:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000001bf13aa$27d064c0$e17d8cd4@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.3.32.19991010172919.00818ab0@mailer.inrete.it> Subject: LF: Re: Sat/Sunday activity from Italy Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 19:01:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC M. Bruno writes: Received: (qmail 17169 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 06:57:44 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 06:57:44 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aYJ1-0006bu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 06:47:31 +0100 Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aYJ0-0006bp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 06:47:30 +0100 Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.51) with SMTP id 05958 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:47:13 +0200 (MDT) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <380187E2.2B755504@phonakcom.ch> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 08:46:58 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Toni Bdrtschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: GB4RS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >>From HB9ASB/p, JN36XC Friday evening, after a good start at 17:30 UT, our slow CW QSO failed. The signal of GB4RS disappeared in the middle of his call. Does anybody know what happened? 73 de Toni From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24064 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 07:49:05 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 07:49:05 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aZ8Q-00071q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:40:38 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from hk.czcom.cz ([195.146.99.2] helo=serverhk.czcom.cz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aZ8J-00071i-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:40:32 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from lasvegas.GMCCZ ([195.146.99.45]) by serverhk.czcom.cz (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57399U3000L300S0V35) with ESMTP id cz for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 08:40:21 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by LASVEGAS with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) id ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 08:37:22 +0200 Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Petr Maly" To: "'136'" Subject: LF: Weekend report (10/10/99) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 08:37:21 +0200 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LowFers I undertook the "expedition" to the cottage with Visual-CW equipment this weekend and I do not regret in spite that I spent alone two days in rain, mist and fog. I have made new 4 countries, I, ON, PA and G. I worked DF3LP, IK5ZPV, ON7YD, IK1ODO, PA2NJN, DK8KW and GB4RS. The last one is my longest QSO, if it was near London, QRB should be around 1160 km. Can anyone give me locator of GB4RS so that I could reckon it exactly, please? GB4RS was audible by ear, I they could hear me, normal CW QSO would be possible. A lot of pictures taken, I will put them to www.mujweb.cz/www/ok1fig/136hrd.htm by the end of this week. 73! Petr, OK1FIG, JO80CH From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27207 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 08:09:45 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 08:09:45 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aZSz-0007ED-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 08:01:53 +0100 Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com ([198.81.17.73]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aZSx-0007E3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 08:01:51 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id lENZa24736 (4456) for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 03:01:14 -0400 (EDT) From: G0MRF@aol.com X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 03:01:13 EDT Subject: LF: RSGB Demonstration station To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 137 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The LF demonstration station at Windsor made its final QSO yesterday (Sunday) at 14.30 UTC. The following stations were worked on 136k. CALL RST SENT RST RX G4GVC 599 599 G3XDV (QRS) O O G3GRO 589 599 G3YXM 599 59+10 9 PA0SE 449 589 G3BDQ 579 59+10 9 G8RW 579 59+15 9 DF3LP (QRS) M O DK8KW (QRS) O 549 OK1FIG (QRS) O O G6NB 569 589 G3YMC 459 599 We were also able to operate on the UK band of 73kHz. This LF frequency with its wavelength of 4.2km is considerably more difficult than 136. As operation in the UK is by a notice of variation, we only able to use, with the permission of the RIS, the call G0MRF. Sunday 07.15 - 07.40. G3LDO 549 sent 549 received 71.7k CW apx 78km 10.30 - 11.00 G3WSC 459 sent 569 received 71.7k CW apx 52km Thanks to Peter and to the members of the Crawley radio club for their hard work in setting up the stations for 73k. Attempts to work / hear Roger G2AJV in Kent unfortunately failed due to the increased QRM on the band. Overall conditions appeared to be better towards the end of the weekend as noise levels reduced on the bands and as the local computers, SMPSU's and thyristor dimmers began to be turned off. Stations worked on QRS were viewed as a multitude of 50Hz products meandered across the screen. My apologies to Marco and those stations we missed. Overall a very satisfying weekend. Vy 73 David From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12066 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 09:15:29 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 09:15:29 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aaRP-0007iM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:04:19 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aaRO-0007iH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:04:18 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA13301 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:11:02 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991011100417.2d4fad7c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:04:17 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: weekend report 8-10 october MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A lot of activity this weekend, especially in slow-CW. I did a lot of listening / 'looking' and also worked 2 new stations : OK1FIG (my country #13) and DK5PT. Following stations were heard : Friday 8 october normal CW : G3KEV (579), G3XDV (549), G3YXM (569), HB9ASB (539), G8RW (429), SM4DHN (539) slow-CW : PA2NJN (O/529) Saturday 9 october normal CW : DJ1RL (549), PA0SE (589), DJ5DI (559), G3KEV (579), OK1FIG (529) slow-CW : OK1FIG (O/529), DF3LP (O/539), IK5ZPV (M), DF8ZR (M), DJ2LF (O/419) Sunday 10 october normal CW : G3LDO (559), G3BDQ (539), DL3FDO (579), G4GVC (549), DJ5DI (559), G3KEV (579), DK5PT (529) slow-CW : OK1FIG (O/529) DJ2LF (O/519), PA2NJN (O/549), IK1ODO (O/419), DF3LP (O/539), DK8KW (O/549) I am also a bit puzzled by hearing DK8KW on sunday while he was being reported at the Windsor meeting, and also by the extreme strong signal he had with me. 2 QSO's in the log : OK1FIG in slow-CW (sent O / got M) for a new one and country number 13 DK5PT in normal CW (sent 529 / got 559) also for a new one - QTH is near Bonn 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16839 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 09:29:43 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 09:29:43 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aaco-0007p0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:16:06 +0100 Received: from artemis.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.126]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aacm-0007ov-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:16:04 +0100 Received: from pc171.geog.le.ac.uk ([143.210.151.171] helo=kate) by artemis.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aacj-0005xm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:16:01 +0100 From: "kate moore" To: "lfgroup" Subject: LF: Weekend report Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:03:58 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Stations worked here during the weekend on 136kHz using normal speed CW: Friday 8/10 PA0SE (07.24UT: gave him 579, he gave me 579), GB4RS (17.12: 59+9, 599), G3LDO (17.25: 599, ???), G3GRO (18.57: 589, 559), OH1TN (19.45: 569, 559QSB). Saturday 9/10 Nothing worked - at Windsor all day. Sunday 10/10 DJ5DI (07.06: 559, 559), G3YMC (07.26: 569, 599), G3LDO (08.01: 599, 589) PA0SE (08.49: 57/89, 589), GB4RS (09.12: 59+9, 599). As we've been without email for a while, I will briefly mention a few earlier events which might be of interest. A couple of Sundays ago I just managed to copy Petr OK1FIG by ear before the abortive pile-up descended on him. I discovered him whilst he was making a CQ call, which helped me to 'synch' into his callsign, as his signal was only around RST-239 here. As Dave G3YXM reported, he and I worked Christer SM6PXJ on Tuesday 5th. Dave found him first and deserves all the credit for making the first SM/G QSO. I was attracted by the activity and called immediately after Dave had finished at 20.31UT. The static was bad so I gave him 559QRN and got 549 back from him - country number 13 2-way for me. At the end of the QSO Christer asked me to QRX for Lars SM4DHN, but I heard nothing from Lars that time. I did hear him the following evening at almost the same strength as Christer, when he worked several stations, but the local static here was wicked that night so I haven't worked Lars yet. Des M0AYF very vividly reported our QSO on Thursday. It was my pleasure to work you, Des - welcome to LF and I hope you have as much fun as I do! As many of you know, I get a lot of enjoyment making 'first LF' contacts for newcomers - most of them are pretty 'electric' and you can almost feel the excitement at the other end! To answer Steve, that was 'first' number 12 for me, taking my tally of stations worked 2-way on 136 to 70. Friday was, as expected, an active day with many of us looking out for GB4RS from the Convention at Windsor. I gave them a call as soon as they appeared on the band, but it was obviously chaos all around Graham so the QSO was a bit disjointed, to say the least. Their signal was absolutely enormous, reading S9+10dB on the S-meter (not much less than Dave shows!) and it was great to get the call in the log again. During my contact with G3LDO, Peter had a keying problem with his transmitter, so I never actually receicved my report. Somewhat later I found Reino OH1TN calling CQ on 136.5kHz but gave him a call higher up the band, where my antenna was resonant. He answered immediately, and although he wasn't copying me quite 100 percent initially, by the end of the contact conditions had improved and we were able to chat freely. The Winter Season approaches..... It was brilliant to meet so many of the 'LF Gang' at Windsor on Saturday, especially to have some overseas visitors in the shape of Andre N4ICK, Geri DK8KW and Wil PA0BWL. I think most of us greatly missed Peter Bobek this year but I'm sure he would have approved of the day's events and it was excellent to hear a very fitting tribute to Peter will be announced shortly. I was also pleased to see Dave G3YXM awarded the Nevada Trophy - very richly deserved. Congratulations Dave, well done. We both had a really enjoyable day and were sorry to leave before the very end to start the 2 hour trek home. Thanks to John G3WKL (and the others) for making it work so well - see you all again next year! I managed to 'surface' fairly early Sunday morning and was rewarded by a nice contact with Fred DJ5DI. The band seemed quiet but unremarkable until I was called by Dick PA0SE again. We exchanged better than normal reports and it was obvious that conditions were enhanced. Immediately afterwards I was called by GB4RS, happily leaving the frequency (136.9kHz) to them whilst I took a break. Shortly afterwards one of those fascinating little dramas unfolded. During their contact with G6NB, GB4RS's signal suddenly dropped several S-points and then finally disappeared. No doubt the TX had a problem and you could almost feel the frantic activity at Windsor trying to sort it out! I began to tune around and found Rik ON7YD working (I think) a German station on 137.2kHz at a better than usual RST-569. As I tuned back down, I caught the end of Petr OK1FIG calling CQ on 137.13kHz at RST-449. Immediately G3KEV began frantically calling Petr just below 137.0kHz where G6NB had been working GB4RS. A few minutes later DJ1RL appeared on 136.9kHz calling CQ at RST-559. When he went over OK1FIG (now peaking 559) called DJ1RL, and when Petr went over G3KEV moved down and started calling OK1FIG! This bemusing sequence was repeated several times with no-one hearing their caller until GB4RS suddenly reappeared, unaware of the excitement which had taken place on their frequency. They called G6NB but he did not reply and G3KEV continued calling into 'thin air' for several minutes more while the Convention station moved away down the band. After that the band went very quiet and I had to go out, so I have no idea whether anyone actually completed a contact! Finally, Kevin ZL4MD is paying us a return visit this evening (Mon) so I hope my TX doesn't expire this time. If anyone is around mid-evening to provide a demonstration contact or two, I'd be very grateful. Regards John G4GVC near Leicester, IO92JP ** TX: Synth + 400W RF from modified 'G3YXM' Mosfet PA ** ** RX: TS-850S with 3 x CW filters and 0.5ppm TCXO ** ** Ant: Inv-L 60m long, 6m high at feed end, 12m high at far end **  From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13138 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 11:00:41 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 11:00:41 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ac63-00005r-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:50:23 +0100 Received: from hugo.fen.baynet.de ([194.95.193.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ac62-00005e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:50:23 +0100 Received: from 194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de (dialin-nbg-21.fen.baynet.de [195.37.210.155]) by hugo.fen.baynet.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA21774 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:48:40 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <002601bf13d6$5296b200$9bd225c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de> From: "Walter Staubach" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Sat/Sunday activity from Italy Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:38:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by hugo.fen.baynet.de id LAA21774 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hallo to all friends from the long waves, as Marco wrote we had a S-CW-QSO on sunday. Thank you, Marco, for my first QSO to Italy on LF. The power here was only 10% of yours (or 20watts+5dB,hi). Your signal was very clear to read, really no problem, but I could not hear anything from you by ear. This was country nr. 8. Thanks again and 73 from Walter, DJ2LF. (QSL is already on mail) -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: M. Bruno An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Datum: Sonntag, 10. Oktober 1999 17:57 Betreff: LF: Sat/Sunday activity from Italy >Hi LF Folks, > >I had been active in QRSs on Saturday and Sunday. Managed a QSO with Petr >OK1FIG, with excellent signals (329 by ear at the end of the QSO), my >report M because of QRN. New country for me! Thank you Petr. > >Then QSO with DJ2LF, sent M, received O. Good and steady signal from Walter. > >HRD: DK8KW in QSO with GB4RS, rpt M, weak but readable. HRD Geri again at >1600z, tried to contact him, but his reply disappeared in the QRN. Sorry, >Geri! The QSO is feasible in quiet conditions. > >GB4RS was a good O, called many times, isofrequency and 10 Hz up/down, but >unable to get a reply. I've seen also other stations calling GB4RS without >success in QRSs. > >Power currently 650W, a little down from the usual 950. No idea why ... dry >weather, antenna seems OK, but current refuses to rise. > > > >73 - Marco IK1ODO > >spin@inrete.it > >Rivalta, ITALY JN35SA (N 45 01' 25.6", E 7 31' 09.4") > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13615 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 11:02:50 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 11:02:50 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ac9o-000099-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:54:16 +0100 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ac9n-000094-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:54:15 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 11acAd-00034Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:55:09 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:50:13 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Mike Dennison" Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:50:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: QSO with DJ2LF In-reply-to: X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Last week I wrote that: > Received a QSL yesterday from Walter, DJ2LF, for our QSO last > weekend on QRSs. > I was delighted to see that it was not only Walter's first G contact, but > was also my best DX at 835km - he is at JN59NO in SE Germany. > What I forgot to say was that we had the QSO on Saturday morning and, not only did I receive the QSL by Thursday but it was sent to my old address 80 miles away (the International listings do not at the moment get their data direct from the UK licensing authority) and was forwarded to me by the radio amateur who lives there now. That's impressive! Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27415 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 12:05:35 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 12:05:35 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ad6C-0000gv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:54:36 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ad6B-0000gp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:54:35 +0100 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id LAA16676 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:54:32 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <1999101112073568199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:07:35 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re Convention & 73kHz Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit It was good to meet all the LF'ers at the HF Convention. I found Andre's talk and slide display on the activity in the USA very interesting. I find the display of equipment at the LF station inspiring - I paricularly liked the remote controlled variometer with the Leggo motor and gear drive mechanism. On Sunday I fired up the transmitter on 136kHz at around 0715 local only to find the remote control keying was still faulty (it has never been the same since it got caught up with the electric hedge cutter a couple of months ago). Transferred to local control in the garden shed. At around 0800 fired up on 71.68kHz and then went back to receive using the old R4-C. Heard G0M?? - I was expecting GB4RS. I tried another call and received a telephone message from Dave that I was being received by the Convention station. I conected up the D2155 level meter and received G0MRF 10dBm above the noise at 20Hz selectivity. We exchanged reports at 549 both ways. Toward the end of the QSO went back to the R4-C and copied G0MRF qute clearly above the noise at 250Hz selectivity. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1661 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 12:21:24 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 12:21:24 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11adOD-0000sI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:13:13 +0100 Received: from as-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.144] helo=spamgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11adOC-0000sD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:13:12 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id HAA06993 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:12:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:12:19 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Prof R. Jennison" Subject: LF: HF Convention - 73kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199910110712_MC2-887D-92BE@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Sad to report, I heard no ham transmissions on Sunday, despite using my Tx loop (2 turns, each about 130 metres in circumference) as a receiving antenna beaming E-W. The commercial stations were booming in and I was well clear of Rugby. I operated the beacon before the Convention station was scheduled to go on air and then went into listening mode for about an hour before starting the beacon again until 11 am when I switched over to receive. I fully expected to receive Lec and Derek at 11 am but I listened for them from 11 to 11.20 and heard nothing, so I gave up and switched on the beacon for the rest of the day (frequency approx 71.9). I had reverted to the double loop configuration a few days beforehand and found that the local signal strength (about 2 miles away) was up by a factor of approximately 4 on the single loop. A year or so ago, running on slightly lower power, this would easily reach a few hundred kilometres so the situation is extremely puzzling. Unfortunately my computer could not download the file that Dave attatched to his email so I do not know how others fared or whether or not any one received my transmissions. I shall be very glad to receive a general report on the situation in plain text if anyone can oblige. It is sad if 73 has to end this way. It has always been a challenge, but much more so this weekend and we still have much to learn. Incidentally I am recently troubled by local QRM, the second harmonic of a very poweful carrier on approx 35.8 MHz. As yet I haven't been able to track it down, - any ideas? 73, Roger, G2AJV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27942 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 13:45:33 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 13:45:33 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aegc-0001YH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:36:18 +0100 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aegX-0001YA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:36:13 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 11aehW-0004NC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:37:15 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:21:52 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:21:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: HF Convention X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have just spent two most stimulating days at the RSGB HF Convention. Since I was attending both as a professional for RSGB and an amateur as G3XDV, I worked hard, but also played hard too. Congratulations to all concerned, especially to John, G3WKL, David, G0MRF and Graham, G3XTZ, for all of their hard work and to Dave, G3YXM and Andre, N4ICK, for their interesting lectures. The company was very good, I spent a lot of time with N4ICK and DK8KW, as well as the Gs. It was also great to see lowfers from Holland and Portugal, too. Geri (pronounced with a hard G like "good"), DK8KW, was sporting a tee-shirt with a Spectrogram of his callsign and the slogan "Longwave enthusiasts do it extremely slow". We talked until about 11 Saturday night, then he flew back to DL at 7am Sunday, getting on the air for a sked with GB4RS at midday. The work that went on behind the scenes to get the two 73kHz contacts was amazing. The FETs on G0MRF's transmitter died after a few minutes of operating - one by one. By the time we went into dinner on Saturday evening, the Tx was useless and we did not know why it kept blowing FETs. During the meal, David went quiet for a few minutes, then waved a piece of paper, saying "I have redesigned my PA for Class D". He left the convention very late in the evening, went home, rebuilt the transmitter and returned at 0630 local to put it on the air, this time successfully! This was just one example of the huge amounts of ingenuity used to keep things working. I am convinced that we will have intrigued several HFers enough for them to venture onto 136kHz. And we certainly gave a boost to future activity from Portugal. Lastly, the memory of Peter Bobek was very much kept alive in various conversations and in something more formal to be announced soon. I will post some pics on my web site later this week. See you next year. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28038 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 13:45:49 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 13:45:49 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aeiM-0001YX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:38:06 +0100 Received: from mb06.swip.net ([193.12.122.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aeiL-0001YS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:38:05 +0100 Received: from win95 (d212-151-85-100.swipnet.se [212.151.85.100]) by mb06.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA24419 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:37:59 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000f01bf13e5$cf5d4ce0$645597d4@win95.swipnet.se> From: "Christer Andersson" To: "RSGB LF group" Subject: LF: QRV Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:39:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I will be on 136.8 at 20.30-21.00z mon-fri this week. Also in the morning at 04.00-04.30z. Suggestions for other (better) frequencies are welcomed. 73, Christer From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13409 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 17:47:46 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 17:47:46 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aiRp-0003XW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:37:17 +0100 Received: from thorium.uunet.be ([194.7.15.88]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11aiRo-0003XR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:37:16 +0100 Received: from rd (pool09-194-7-245-188.uunet.be [194.7.245.188]) by thorium.uunet.be (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA26642 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:37:09 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Robert_Decarni=E8re?= To: "LF" Subject: LF: RX rprt 7-10 Oct. Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:35:24 -0000 Message-ID: <01bf1406$9e28da60$LocalHost@rd> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
From ON4DY (RX only).
 
Hello All,
 
While listening on, and adjusting a newly built 30 turn octogonal frame loop of 2,2 meter diameter ( 7 ft ),
center about 3,5 m ( 12 ft) above ground, set in the middle of an open area in the garden,
I copied following stations :
 
Thursday Oct. 7th.
 
15:52  G4GVC    qso 569  working M0AYF whom I regretfully could not hear, neither MM0ALM
By then, I noticed my loop was far off the right direction, certainly for Aberdeen. 
16:57  DL3FDO  cq 549
20:34  DJ1RL      cq 539   replied by ON7YD 589
 
Friday Oct. 8 th.
 
15:50  G3KEV   cq   579
16:00  G4GVC  cq    569
16:42  G8RW    cq    539   improved reception average 1 s-unit compared to my 300 ft +  Beverage.
17:01  G3YXM  cq    56/79
20:18  G3XDV  cq    569
 
Saturday  not qrv.
 
Sunday OCT. 10 th.
 
06:27  G3LDO   579 calling G8RW
06:34  G8RW  549 now ,  cq
06:40  G3LDO in qso with G3BDQ 579
07:00  G4GVC  569 in qso with DJ5DI   559,   and later G3YMC  not heard.
07:45  DJ5DI   559  cq. 
07:51  G3KEV  579  cq 
08:37  DL3FDO  549  cqs replied by G3KEV, but no qso at that time of listening.
14:20  GB4RS  579 Graham in Windsor working G6NB
19:57  G3YXM  579   
 
Last minute : Monday Oct. 11th
 
15:14  G8RW 549 in qso with G6NB not heard.
15:28  G3KEV 579 in qso with DJ6FU  229  (Mal gave 569, so must reconsider my optimism of good RXing !)
 
The continuous drizzle prevented me from doing more adjustments on the antenna mounted preamp, 
so that some improvement still may and must be possible I think.
Being out in the country in a most of the time quiet rf environment, the directional effect of the loop
is rather a disadvantage than anything else. I do not know if the height of a loop is of any importance
on LF, as long as it is not screened by surrounding objects.
In so far, the improvement is very small against the beverage, from which I started to listen on 136.
Future will tell which way to go.... 
 
73, Bob on4dy JO10TX.
 
 
                    
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1101 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 18:46:48 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 18:46:48 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ajK6-00043y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:33:22 +0100 Received: from merlins.force9.net ([195.166.128.23]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ajK4-00043t-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:33:20 +0100 Received: (qmail 13742 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 17:33:15 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by merlins.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 17:33:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 957 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 17:33:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO main) (212.56.110.146) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 17:33:15 -0000 Message-ID: <003401bf140f$3cdc51c0$0600a8c0@main> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Thanks and Finbar Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:37:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all, Thanks to those of you who nominated me for the Nevada cup. It was a great pleasure to receive it. I know there are many other deserving cases because there are so many of us helping eachother out. I drink a toast (from my cup) to next year's award! Finbar is back home. He should rejoin the group soon but has no aerials at the moment. 73, Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15996 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 19:32:46 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 19:32:46 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ak6c-0004UQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:23:30 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.32] (helo=Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ak6b-0004UK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:23:29 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.151.133]) by Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA4447 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:23:24 +0200 Message-ID: <004f01bf1416$f44d35c0$8597b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Nevada Cup for G3YXM Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:31:38 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Dear Dave, G3YXM
 
Congratulations on being awarded the Nevada Cup.
 
Well deserved!
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25321 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 20:07:14 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 20:07:14 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11akdR-0004kQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:57:25 +0100 Received: from mashie.force9.net ([195.166.128.30]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11akdQ-0004kL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:57:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 31397 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 18:57:21 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 18:57:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 4887 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 18:57:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO main) (212.56.119.94) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 18:57:21 -0000 Message-ID: <003501bf141a$fc8bf880$0600a8c0@main> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <380187E2.2B755504@phonakcom.ch> Subject: LF: Re: GB4RS Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:01:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > > Friday evening, after a good start at 17:30 UT, our slow CW QSO failed. > The signal of GB4RS disappeared in the middle of his call. Does anybody > know what happened? > Sparks from the loading coil. The enamel on the wire seemed to be breaking down and everything went off tune. Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9567 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 21:01:31 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 21:01:31 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11alUI-0005Cf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:52:02 +0100 Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com ([198.81.17.10]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11alUH-0005CV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:52:01 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id lVMJa14299 (4225) for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:51:23 -0400 (EDT) From: G0MRF@aol.com X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <0.efc822a5.253399ba@aol.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:51:22 EDT Subject: Re: LF: HF Convention - 73kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 137 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 10/10/99 6:53:00 GMT Daylight Time, sergeantd@compuserve.com writes: << I can report that I heard G0MRF/P on 71.7kHz on Sunday morning 10th. October between 0645 and 0730z. Hash from Rugby was horrendous and David's signal was copyable with difficulty through this, at 379. Had the noise not been there the signal would have been perfect copy. I was unable to detect Peter G3LDO however during David's QSO with him. The distance of Beaumont from my QTH measured directly off the map is 11.25 km, hardly likely to break any records! >> Hello Dave. Congratulations! Even 11km is a relative success for that band. I imagine that you used the loop? It could be that you had a better reception "angle" into Rugby than to Windsor. Anyway Dave, at least it was easier to identify than my last attempt from Whitton. I think you must have heard Graham sending while I was adjusting spectrogram. I spotted that he had sent /p and quickly corrected him. ( I actually received a reply from the RIS this time ) Geri did very well. Apparently he didn't leave Windsor until 5 the next morning. To make it home and make the QSO was remarkable.....We were a little late as we were all watching the end of Dave's, LF presentation. I hope you had a good time, I certainly enjoyed myself very much.....Except buying all those FETs on Monday morning. 73 David From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10361 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 21:04:49 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 21:04:49 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11alSz-0005CQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:50:41 +0100 Received: from pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11alSx-0005Bu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:50:40 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [202.27.178.18] by pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19991011195910.LNKL702.pop2-rme@[202.27.178.18]> for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:59:10 +1300 Message-ID: <38023DD1.B30@xtra.co.nz> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:43:13 +1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: TS 850 References: <1999100310233468199@zetnet.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Peter, I have had a "play" with a TS 850SAT, as a try before buy offer. I can confirm it works better than I would have thought on receiving LF. The circuit diagram shows it has a separate pre-amp for tuning below 500 kHz. While it tunes down to 30 kHz, the sensitivity is fairly dreadful down there, so there must be a lot of roll-off below 100 kHz. We do not have access to a 76 kHz band down this way. I have asked our regulatory authority to be able to use the CEPT band at 136 kHz. Our current access is to 165 - 190 kHz. But whatever, the TS 850 can technically tune all. I was also impressed by the TS 850 NB1 noise blanker, as we have a hash problem in Wellington. NB2 is specifically for the now defunct woodpecker, and did not do much good for spike suppression (but may be able to be redesigned for general use?) Unfortunately I found the sensitivity of the receiver on HF to be around 20 dB below spec. Also the 12 dB attenuator appears to be "open circuit" when selected. I can hear the relay clicking, so the series resistor in the L pad seems to be open? So I suspect it has had an inadvertent squirt of RF in the front end, while the HF rather than LF pre-amp was selected. As it meets spec on LF, it shows that there is not too much to be fearful of? It goes back to the vendor for a "covers off inspection" on Wednesday evening. I am still at a bit of a loss to see why Mr Kenwood would provide such a good spec for below 500 kHz, as it has resulted in extra circuitry and obviously meant a higher cost of design and manufacture. I'm not complaining! Should the HF receiving problem be resolved, I am likely to purchase the TS 850 SAT, and I would then look for a way to transmit on LF. I currently do this with my Icom IC-735, by making it all band transmit (snipping the appropriate diodes) and adding a suitable low pass filter (inductor input T, to be hi Z to all HF) to the Tx mixer to tap off the LF Tx signal. The particular TS 850 also has transmit windowing in the 3 lowest bands (160, 80 and 40 metres) and gives less coverage than my licence allows. It also seems to clamp the output power to 50 watts on 160 metres. If I buy it, I will need to also find out about "band plan" diodes or whatever they use, but all that may be overtaken by events if I opt for "all band transmit". Anyway, overall the TS 850 does shape up as a good machine, LF included :) Regards, Bob From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21493 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 21:46:14 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 21:46:14 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11amD4-0005bg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:38:18 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from premium.inrete.it ([194.116.9.4] helo=mailer.inrete.it ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11amD1-0005ba-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:38:16 +0100 Received: from cel266 (pool17-133.dialup.alpcom.it [194.116.17.133]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA22319 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:38:09 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991011184044.00b0a100@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:40:44 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Sat/Sunday activity from Italy In-reply-to: <000001bf13aa$27d064c0$e17d8cd4@dave> References: <3.0.3.32.19991010172919.00818ab0@mailer.inrete.it> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 19.01 10/10/99 +0100, you wrote: >>>From Dave G3YMC > >M. Bruno writes: ><1600z, tried to contact him, but his reply disappeared in the QRN. Sorry, > >Interesting. I had dinner with Geri DK8KW on Saturday evening at Windsor, and even earlier saw him at the operating position of GB4RS. Perhaps it was his second op left back in Germany? > > It was Sunday. Marco Bruno - IK1ODO spin@inrete.it SPIN Electronics - www.spin-it.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12334 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 23:02:07 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 23:02:07 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11anHj-0006Ca-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:47:11 +0100 Received: from cask.force9.net ([195.166.128.29]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11anHi-0006CV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:47:10 +0100 Received: (qmail 31476 invoked from network); 11 Oct 1999 21:47:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO main) (212.56.119.128) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 1999 21:47:07 -0000 Message-ID: <001801bf1432$b421d660$0600a8c0@main> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <1999100310233468199@zetnet.co.uk> <38023DD1.B30@xtra.co.nz> Subject: LF: Re: TS 850 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:44:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Bob, > I have had a "play" with a TS 850SAT, as a try before buy offer. I can > confirm it works better than I would have thought on receiving LF. The > circuit diagram shows it has a separate pre-amp for tuning below 500 > kHz. While it tunes down to 30 kHz, the sensitivity is fairly dreadful > down there, so there must be a lot of roll-off below 100 kHz. We do not > have access to a 76 kHz band down this way. I have asked our regulatory > authority to be able to use the CEPT band at 136 kHz. Our current > access is to 165 - 190 kHz. But whatever, the TS 850 can technically > tune all. I find it very good on LF, especially with two CW filters fitted! > > I was also impressed by the TS 850 NB1 noise blanker, as we have a hash > problem in Wellington. NB2 is specifically for the now defunct > woodpecker, and did not do much good for spike suppression (but may be > able to be redesigned for general use?) Noise blanker doesn't seem to work much with the narrow filters in, but it depends on the character of your noise! > > Unfortunately I found the sensitivity of the receiver on HF to be around > 20 dB below spec. Also the 12 dB attenuator appears to be "open > circuit" when selected. I can hear the relay clicking, so the series > resistor in the L pad seems to be open? So I suspect it has had an > inadvertent squirt of RF in the front end, while the HF rather than LF > pre-amp was selected. As it meets spec on LF, it shows that there is > not too much to be fearful of? It goes back to the vendor for a "covers > off inspection" on Wednesday evening. Yes indeed, probably a diode in the switching on the RF filter board. I fixed a similar fault on a friend's rig. > > I am still at a bit of a loss to see why Mr Kenwood would provide such a > good spec for below 500 kHz, as it has resulted in extra circuitry and > obviously meant a higher cost of design and manufacture. I'm not > complaining! > The 450 is just as sensitive. Same front end. > Should the HF receiving problem be resolved, I am likely to purchase the > TS 850 SAT, and I would then look for a way to transmit on LF. I > currently do this with my Icom IC-735, by making it all band transmit > (snipping the appropriate diodes) and adding a suitable low pass filter > (inductor input T, to be hi Z to all HF) to the Tx mixer to tap off the > LF Tx signal. > > The particular TS 850 also has transmit windowing in the 3 lowest bands > (160, 80 and 40 metres) and gives less coverage than my licence allows. > It also seems to clamp the output power to 50 watts on 160 metres. If I > buy it, I will need to also find out about "band plan" diodes or > whatever they use, but all that may be overtaken by events if I opt for > "all band transmit". If you get it, I have all the info on the thing. 73, Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26240 invoked from network); 12 Oct 1999 05:50:57 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Oct 1999 05:50:57 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ateI-0001Ar-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 05:34:54 +0100 Received: from as-img-4.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.147] helo=spamgaad.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ateH-0001Am-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 05:34:53 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id AAA01502 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 00:34:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 00:34:25 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: The dual-DK8KW mystery solved To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199910120034_MC2-889E-15D1@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello friends, >At 19.01 10/10/99 +0100, you wrote: >>>From Dave G3YMC > >M. Bruno writes: ><1600z, tried to contact him, but his reply disappeared in the QRN. Sorry, > >Interesting. I had dinner with Geri DK8KW on Saturday evening at Windsor, >and even earlier saw him at the operating position of GB4RS. Perhaps it >was his second op left back in Germany? > Marco already explained the mystery of me being at two places at the same time. Although I do have a second op at my stations at very rare occations (my XYL Andrea has operated my Slow-CW LF station under her own callsign DL3ABC once in early spring to confuse late Peter, DJ8WL. It was a full success, for weeks he kept asking who the guy with that homemade callsign had be, until we told him...), in this case it was myself. After I had a wonderful time meeting all the nice guys hiding behind those dots and dashes on LF in Windsor, I rushed back with the early morning plane from London to Hannover. Due to the severe wind conditions and despite the help of Andrea, her pulling up the telescopic mast while I climed onto our chimney to get the southern top load radial loose from my VHF antenna, it took us nearly an hour to get the mast erected to its full height of 18m (with all neighbors watching us, you could see them looking through their windows shaking their heads...). Well, I finally got on the air short before noon, my sked time with the GB4RS gang, finished a quick Slow-CW QSO with Petr, OK1FIG and had a nice QSO with the guys back in Windsor. Glad to hear that Petr made a QSO with you later the day, he was so desperately calling you when I had to leave for lunch. Marco, thanks for calling me in the late afternoon. You was 'M' here with a lot of noise, we surely will make it in the clear later this year. And again, thanks to everyone of you I met in Windsor, I had a great time! Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1346 invoked from network); 12 Oct 1999 06:23:30 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Oct 1999 06:23:30 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11auEv-0001UD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 06:12:45 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226] helo=gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11auEv-0001U8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 06:12:45 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id HAA26814; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:14:33 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from somewhere by smtpxd X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Message-ID: From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" To: "'rsgb_lf_group'" Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:12:41 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hallo Group, Heard IK5ZPV on 11.Oct. 20 UTC 339 qsb DJ5BV 12.Oct 4:10 UTC 339 calling SM... 73 de Wolf DL1SAN http://www.qsl.net/dl1san/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1497 invoked from network); 12 Oct 1999 09:26:04 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Oct 1999 09:26:04 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ax6O-0002zA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:16:08 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ax6N-0002z5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:16:07 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA09485 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:22:54 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991012101607.198fcb10@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:16:07 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: mistery station & report 11 october MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A lot of activity last night (monday 11 october) : Heard (all in normal CW) : DJ6FU (529), G3KEV (579), DJ5BV (559), IK5ZPV (559), G3LDO (559), G3YXM (579), PA0SE (589), G4GVC (559), I5MXX (529), SM6PXJ (429) Called DJ6FU and IK5ZPV on their CQ's but no response :( On saturday (9 october) and monday (11 october) I could hear a very weak station CQ-ing - both days on 136.540 and arround 20.40UT. Due to high statics the signal was no stronger than 319 and I got only a part of the callsign : 0ALG I am 100% sure about the 0 (so it wasn't GW4ALG) and also almost 100% sure about the G (so I don't think it was MM0ALM - besides that I heard him many times with a much stronger signal). Anyone who can solve this 'mistery' ? 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2490 invoked from network); 12 Oct 1999 13:05:00 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Oct 1999 13:05:00 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11b0WI-0004mi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:55:06 +0100 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11b0WH-0004mc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:55:06 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11b0W1-0005gK-0C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:54:50 +0000 Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:55:36 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: TS 850 In-reply-to: <38023DD1.B30@xtra.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Tom - G3OLB Bob > Also the 12 dB attenuator appears to be "open >circuit" when selected. I can hear the relay clicking, so the series >resistor in the L pad seems to be open? So I suspect it has had an >inadvertent squirt of RF in the front end, while the HF rather than LF >pre-amp was selected. Further to Dave's comments, I can confirm the TS850-SAT 12 dB attenuator does not like 250 watts of 136 KHz directly into it! Mine no longer works either. Nice to meet so many LF people at Windsor. Two most enjoyable days. 73 Tom, G3OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14666 invoked from network); 12 Oct 1999 13:59:43 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Oct 1999 13:59:43 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11b1Hv-0005Em-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:44:19 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.31] (helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11b1Ht-0005Eh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:44:17 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.151.162]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA50BA; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:44:06 +0200 Message-ID: <000f01bf14b0$b923e440$a297b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Cc: "John Devoldere, ON4UN" , "Koos Fockens, PA0KDF" , "Koos Fockens, PA0KDF" , "Jaap Kroon, PA0IF" , "Ger van Went, PA0GER" , "Hans Peltzer, PA0HRP" Subject: LF: Directivity of inverted-L antenna Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:52:05 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE
 
A question by Jaap, PA3GUC, prompted me to investigate the directivity of an Inverted L-antenna.
 
I modeled by computer an antenna with 10 m vertical and a horizontal part of different lengths; made of 1.5 mm diameter (16 SWG) copper wire.  .
 
"Front" in F/B ratio is along the top wire in the direction of the open end.
 
The impedance at the feed point is calculated over  perfect earth. For gain, F/B ratio and take-off angle real ground is used.
 
Gain is expressed in dBd; gain over a halfwave lossless dipole in free space.
 
Rrad is the radiation resistance; Rloss  the resistance of the wire; X the reactance at the feedpoint. The minus sign indicates capacitive reactance.
Zant = Rrad + Rloss + jX.
 
Length of    Rrad      Rloss     Xant      F/B  Sky wave   F/B surface wave     Max. gain    Take-off angle
top (m)         Ohm      Ohm       Ohm               dB                             dB                       dBd          for max. gain
                                                                                                                                                               degrees
 
 10                  0.0176   0.130     -9659             0,17                             0                       -7.76              18
 
 20                  0.0221    0.198    -6609             0 .41                            0                       -8.39              18
 
 50                  0.0276    0.403    -3386             1.16                             0.02                 -10.00            18 
 
 100                0.0297    0.752    -1835             2.34                             0.05                 -11.49            18
 
 200                0.0337    1.496    -885               4.14                             0.11                  -12.74            20
 
 400                0.0383     3.44     -256                4.40                             0.23                 -13.21            30
 
 537.57           0.051       5.63       0                   1.99                             0.29                  -12.92            58
 
 
During daylight contacts over a few hundred kilometres are made by the surface wave and the Inverted
L-antenna shows no useful directivity.
 
After dark the skywave appears and some directivity can be obtained, but only by long top wires.
 
The decreasing maximum gain with longer top wires is caused by a widening vertical arc within which radiation takes place.
In the case of a resonant antenna  (last line) the gain is  constant within 1 dB over elevations from
about 15 to 100 degrees!
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
JO22GD
D.W. Rollema
V.d. Marckstraat 5
2352 RA Leiderdorp
The Netherlands
Tel. +31 71 589 27 34
 
 
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3106 invoked from network); 12 Oct 1999 19:49:44 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Oct 1999 19:49:44 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11b6ls-0008Fw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 19:35:36 +0100 Received: from as-img-rel-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.142] helo=spamraaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11b6lq-0008Fr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 19:35:34 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) id OAA24461 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:35:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave (host212-140-122-53.host.btclick.com [212.140.122.53]) by spamraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) with SMTP id OAA24396 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:35:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000201bf14e0$5ef668a0$357a8cd4@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Bracknell Club Talk - reminder Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 19:00:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Just to remind you that Derek G3GRO will be giving his 136 talk at the Bracknell Club Wednesday 13th October, 8pm at Coopers Hill Centre, Crowthorne Rd. North, Bracknell. All are welcome. I shall be taking my receive set up along with a 1m loop antenna, so would be grateful if some of you could come on between 8pm and 10pm local. I expect we shall only be able to hear the stronger signals with this set up (normal CW only), and we will have no transmit capability. 73s Dave G3YMC sergeantd@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3275 invoked from network); 12 Oct 1999 19:50:21 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Oct 1999 19:50:21 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11b6mB-0008G2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 19:35:55 +0100 Received: from as-img-rel-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.142] helo=spamraaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11b6m9-0008Fq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 19:35:54 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) id OAA24442 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:35:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave (host212-140-122-53.host.btclick.com [212.140.122.53]) by spamraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) with SMTP id OAA24365 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:35:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000001bf14e0$5ad68020$357a8cd4@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: For Heinz OE5EEP Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:02:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Apologies for putting this on the reflector. I have had a request from Heinz OE5EEP for sourcing information on Philips 376 capacitors. Unfortunately all mails to his address (oe5eep@qsl.net) are getting returned. If you get this Heinz please tell me if there are problems with your ISP. 73s Dave G3YMC sergeantd@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20545 invoked from network); 12 Oct 1999 20:50:31 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Oct 1999 20:50:31 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11b7mz-0000Jw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 20:40:49 +0100 Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11b7my-0000Jr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 20:40:48 +0100 Received: from modem-81.thorium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.44.209] helo=default) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11b7mn-00006Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 20:40:38 +0100 From: "Des Kostryca" To: "RSGB LF_Group" Subject: LF: Slow CW test. Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 20:45:14 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01bf152d$5bcdf880$4b40883e@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings all, Following a very successful morning on LF I am hoping to make the most of my spare time and build on this success further. Peter (DF3LP) kindly offered to listen out for my call providing I send very slowly. I intend to start sending Wednesday morning at about 05:15 utc. Speed will be at one word per minute and the message I propose to send has been timed at 10 mins. I will send initially at normal speed as is normal practice to confirm callsign etc then switch to scw. I will leave about thirty second gap then repeat the whole message again in scw. The whole transmission should take around 20 mins. If the proposed test is likely to cause anyone on the list a problem and/or I am missing something fundamental please let me know, I certainly do not wish to upset anyone. Please note that I am not fully equipped for two way scw as yet and this is intended as a one way experiment. Should anyone wish to contact me (normal speed cw) I will be on or around 137kHZ from about 06:00 utc. I shall check my mail again this evening at around 22:00 utc should anyone wish to respond via the list. Many thanks and 73's, Des. Des Kostryca (M0AYF) G.Q.R.P. no. 9788 I.A.R.U. loc. IO93OJ W.A.B. SK89 Member of the N.B.T.V.A. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27223 invoked from network); 12 Oct 1999 23:13:15 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Oct 1999 23:13:15 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bA0o-0001aF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 23:03:14 +0100 Received: from neodymium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.83]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bA0n-0001aA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 23:03:13 +0100 Received: from [62.172.95.125] (helo=default) by neodymium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11bA0j-0004Ip-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 23:03:10 +0100 Message-ID: <00a501bf14fc$e32c2b20$9bd8ac3e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Windsor but no DX Cluster postings this w/e Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:57:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I was surprised to receive so much encouragement for reports and cluster postings from all I met at Windsor. Maybe it will encourage others to post listener reports. Like everyone else there, I enjoyed the atmosphere, and enjoyed chatting to so many of the calls I have come to know so well through the band and the reflector. I wonder how much longer before we have a specific LF Convention. Congratulations to those who mounted the demonstration station. It was the loudest signal I have heard on the band so far, pipping Lech and Mal. I wonder what was done on the earthing side? There was obviously not time to do much, and the position in the river plain is obviously good. It's a pity it suffered from so much receive interference as the signal was obviously heard right across Europe. All my listening was unattended QRS logging with FFTDSP, due to my attendance at Windsor and being out all Sunday morning as well. No chance to wind up Spectrogram and dig the weaker ones out of the noise. Heard were PA2NJN (working Petr OK1FIG), DF3LP, DK8KW (after his majik broomstick act) and a station signing --MLJ or was the last letter a P, copied in between bursts of local SMPSU noise at about 0844z. Oh and GB4RS of course working Geri after his qso with Petr. I am afraid my local DX Cluster GB7DXM has been down this weekend. Knowing the location I was worried that there might be serious problems, possible keeping it off for a while. My confidence in the enthusiasm of the local DXers was not misplaced. I have it on good authority from a 'usually reliable source' that it will be active again soon after some necessary re-engineering. I suspect this means 'tidying up' in amateur parlance! So its 'Watch this space' for next weekend. 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2808 invoked from network); 12 Oct 1999 23:34:46 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Oct 1999 23:34:46 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bAH9-0001fu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 23:20:07 +0100 Received: from brockman.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.30]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bAH8-0001fp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 23:20:06 +0100 Received: from p140.lifford1.eircom.net ([159.134.235.140] helo=beachwood.tinet.ie) by brockman.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 11bAH3-00049d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 23:20:01 +0100 Message-ID: <001f01bf1500$6e610aa0$8ceb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: I'm back Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 23:23:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Following my exile to another radio station, I'm back at Malin Head Radio again.
However my extensive LF antenna system came down in a recent gale and I have not had a chance to restore it to  service again. All is not lost, at least I can hear some stations on an indoor  1 metre loop with a differential loop amp. The following stations have been heard over the previous weekend.
G3KEV, G3YXM, G4GVC, MM0ALM. 
I managed to get on the LF 80 metre net last Sunday evening, for a very short while  before rushing off for my night duty. It might be of interest  to note that I was using an antenna of about  2 feet high, well short of a metre high , sitting on the work bench, consisting of the base matching coil from my LF set up and  a 2 foot by 1 foot piece of cooking foil wrapped over a
piece of  perspex , for the top hat. The coil has  38 turns  wide spaced over  one foot , diameter  , 6 inches.  Originally I used this almost as a joke to listen on 80 metres, since I have no outside antennnas at present. I was astounded to get a responce
on 80 metres and have now worked a number of station on 80 m. Yesterday and today I worked quite a few stations on 40 m.
 
To match to 80 m , the tx tapping was  11 turns up and the coil tap was  17 turns up. On 40 m  , tx  12 turns up and  coil
14 turns up.
 
The reason for mentioning this is , it has made me re-think about heavily loaded antennas for  136 khz. Perhaps before I  put up my usual big long wire antenna for 136 khz  I might have a go at a micro helical top loaded antenna. Will keep  the group informed of any progress.
 
73's   Finbar     EI0CF     and glad to be back at Malin Head Radio.
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25724 invoked from network); 13 Oct 1999 09:56:53 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Oct 1999 09:56:53 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bJzB-0007HK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:42:13 +0100 Received: from apollo.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.125]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bJzA-0007HF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:42:12 +0100 Received: from pc171.geog.le.ac.uk ([143.210.151.171] helo=kate) by apollo.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.02 #2) id 11bJz7-0002cF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:42:09 +0100 From: "kate moore" To: "lfgroup" Subject: LF: ZL4MD VISIT Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:29:57 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Well, my demonstration of 136kHz for Kevin ZL4MD went very well this time (Monday evening). Inevitably we were talking a great deal, so concentration on actually operating was less than optimum and we spent most of the time just listening. Conditions were excellent and, despite some static, we heard SM6PXJ, IK5ZPV, PA0SE, MM0ALM and a lot of Gs. I think Kevin was rather startled by so many countries on at once - obviously that's impossible at present in ZL. As I didn't want to get tangled up in the DX melee, it was fairly late before I actually transmitted, so many thanks to Dave G3YXM and Peter G3LDO for providing short, but extremely solid contacts to complete the demo. Regards John G4GVC near Leicester, IO92JP ** TX: Synth + 400W RF from modified 'G3YXM' Mosfet PA ** ** RX: TS-850S with 3 x CW filters and 0.5ppm TCXO ** ** Ant: Inv-L 60m long, 6m high at feed end, 12m high at far end ** From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19050 invoked from network); 13 Oct 1999 13:12:57 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Oct 1999 13:12:57 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bN6e-0000em-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:02:08 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bN6d-0000eT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:02:07 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA13468 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:08:50 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991013140201.2ee7a068@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:02:01 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Slow CW test. In-reply-to: <000d01bf152d$5bcdf880$4b40883e@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 20:45 12/10/99 -0700, M0AYF wrote: >I intend to start sending Wednesday morning at about 05:15 utc. Speed will >be at one word per minute and the message I propose to send has been timed >at 10 mins. I will send initially at normal speed as is normal practice to >confirm callsign etc then switch to scw. I will leave about thirty second >gap then repeat the whole message again in scw. The whole transmission >should take around 20 mins. Hi Des, I am reading your message only now (wednesday 12 UT), so I missed you test this morning. But if you want to try one of the next days I will be happy to look out for you, preferably in the QRS segment arround 137700 Hz. I can be QRV between 05 and 06.30 UT. I have seen low power stations in the 300 - 400 km range, so there is a fair chance that I can copy your signal with spectogram. 73, Rik ON7YD Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29933 invoked from network); 13 Oct 1999 13:52:32 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Oct 1999 13:52:32 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bNf9-0000yy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:37:47 +0100 Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226] helo=gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bNf8-0000yt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:37:46 +0100 Received: by gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id OAA19954; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:39:36 +0200 (MET DST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Received: from somewhere by smtpxd X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: AW: QRV Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:37:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hallo Christer , I will try to hear your signal at Thursday 4:00 utc. If it´s possible please try to transmit on 136.4 kHz because on 136.8 I have a local carrier . 73 de wolf DL1SAN > ---------- > Von: Christer Andersson[SMTP:sm6pxj@swipnet.se] > Antwort an: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Gesendet: Montag, 11. Oktober 1999 14:39 > An: RSGB LF group > Betreff: LF: QRV > > I will be on 136.8 at 20.30-21.00z mon-fri this week. Also in the morning > at 04.00-04.30z. > > Suggestions for other (better) frequencies are welcomed. > > 73, > Christer > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1569 invoked from network); 13 Oct 1999 13:58:56 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Oct 1999 13:58:56 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bNpk-00015L-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:48:44 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from hk.czcom.cz ([195.146.99.2] helo=serverhk.czcom.cz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bNpa-00015E-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:48:35 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from lasvegas.GMCCZ ([195.146.99.42]) by serverhk.czcom.cz (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57399U3000L300S0V35) with ESMTP id cz for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:48:19 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by LASVEGAS with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) id ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:45:15 +0200 Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Petr Maly" To: "'136'" Subject: LF: Expedition to Slovakia? Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:45:13 +0200 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LowFers, I begun to dream of an expedition to a new country - Slovakia. Making use of advantage of no language difficulties I could get permission and all the necessary things. I would be perhaps OM/OK1FIG/P. It would be first transmission from OM on 136 kHz, so it could be interesting to all. The question is: would it be a distance record when having QSO from estern part of OM to GW/GM or EI? Does anyone know what are the current records for normal CW and Visual-CW? Would such expedition be worth to undertake? 73! Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6069 invoked from network); 13 Oct 1999 14:15:35 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Oct 1999 14:15:35 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bO27-0001CC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:01:31 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bO26-0001C7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:01:30 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA04825 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:08:17 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991013150128.12d7f6d2@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:01:28 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: activity 12 october MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Little activity last night (compared to monday) but still good DX-conditions. Heard : IK5ZPV (peaking 569), MM0ALM (peaking 559) and SM6PXJ (peaking 539) All signals had slow QSB and were going up and down by about 10dB. QRN level was better than during the weekend but stil rather high. Remarkable was that during the QSO of MM0ALM with SM6PXJ Christer was only 429 with me while he received a 569 report from MM0ALM. Distance from me to SM6PXJ (1031km) is very comparable to the distance MM0ALM-SM6PJX (937km). So this confirms what I noted last winter when several G's / GW / EI were working OH1TN with good signals while I could hardly copy Reino : the more north the propagation path the stronger the signals. Based on that there should be a good chance to cross the atlantic on a path between GM or EI at the European side and VO at the American side. Distance is in the 3500km range and the path is very north. 73, Rik ON7YD PS : I called all 3 stations but no response :-( Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22499 invoked from network); 13 Oct 1999 15:03:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Oct 1999 15:03:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bPjh-0002E8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:50:37 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bPjg-0002E3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:50:36 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA08867 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:57:16 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991013165027.2ee793c8@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:50:27 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Expedition to Slovakia? In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 14:45 13/10/99 +0200, you wrote: >Hello LowFers, >I begun to dream of an expedition to a new country - Slovakia. Making >use of advantage of no language difficulties I could get permission and >all the necessary things. I would be perhaps OM/OK1FIG/P. It would be >first transmission from OM on 136 kHz, so it could be interesting to >all. The question is: would it be a distance record when having QSO from >estern part of OM to GW/GM or EI? Does anyone know what are the current >records for normal CW and Visual-CW? Would such expedition be worth to >undertake? > >73! Petr, OK1FIG > Hello Petr, As far as I know is the current distance record between OH1TN (KP11OO) and IK5ZPV (JN53KX) or I5MXX (JN53JU), so 2122km or 2137km (normal CW). A brief look on the map shows that from the very eastern part of OM to EI0CF may be just a few km more, the UK is in the range of 1800 to 2000km. Maybe better would be the very western part of OM, this would give you the possibility to work much more stations (I'm interested in working OM). 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10466 invoked from network); 14 Oct 1999 11:20:41 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 1999 11:20:41 +0100 Received: (qmail 8625 invoked from network); 14 Oct 1999 10:20:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Oct 1999 10:20:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bhbi-0003dY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:55:34 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111] helo=gadolinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bhbg-0003dT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:55:32 +0100 Received: from [62.172.92.193] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11bWp5-0004iZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 23:24:39 +0100 Message-ID: <008101bf15c9$0dafd460$c15cac3e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Des and slow cw test Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:47:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Des, I left FFTDSP waterfall monitoring 136 for me whilst I had my beauty sleep (at my age I need all I can get!). Your morse was just a little too fast for my settings, which were set for a 3 second dot regime (I think that approximates to about 0.4 wpm, I seem to remember that there are 47 dot-equivalent elements in a standard word) Nevertheless your call was readable here with some 'foresight' applied. and a locator of IO93OJ was copied (without cheating). The crashes were quite low but were carving you up a little such that I initially read your call as M0ALF. Spectrogram would be much better under these circumstances but it is a lot more profligate with the disc space (I'm running an old machine with a fairly small disc). I must find a way of getting it to start up on a timer schedule without the menu coming up. (Any ideas?? you computer whizzes) I noticed your call started at 0520z on 137.450kHz, and drifted up to 137.535 during the course of the transmission. I think I recognised a hand speed call later further down the band with the same drift noticable. It was not a problem to me as I was viewing a 1.2kHz slice of the band. I think you would have been readable in a 500kHz filter here on hand keyed morse. Hope you got a result from Peter 73 de Alan G3NYK in JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 662 invoked from network); 14 Oct 1999 12:43:13 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 1999 12:43:13 +0100 Received: (qmail 19929 invoked from network); 14 Oct 1999 11:43:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Oct 1999 11:43:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bj3I-0004RC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:28:08 +0100 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bj3H-0004R7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:28:08 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 11bj4E-0004yF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:29:06 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:17:01 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:17:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Convention pics X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have posted ten pictures of the LF events at last weekend's RSGB HF Convention on my web site. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11854 invoked from network); 14 Oct 1999 22:30:50 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 1999 22:30:50 +0100 Received: (qmail 3502 invoked from network); 14 Oct 1999 21:31:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Oct 1999 21:31:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bsGH-0001E9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:18:09 +0100 Received: from mta1-gui.server.ntli.net ([194.168.54.142] helo=mta1-svc.virgin.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bsGG-0001E4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:18:08 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from virgin.net ([194.168.63.56]) by mta1-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19991014211847.FRSI19459.mta1-svc@virgin.net>; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:18:47 +0100 Message-ID: <38064879.EAA25B4@virgin.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:17:46 +0100 From: "Stewart Bryant" Organization: . X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Des and slow cw test References: <008101bf15c9$0dafd460$c15cac3e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Actually you don't need full blown specrogram to start up on a timer you just need a program that starts up on a timer and captures a .wav file, which you can then feed into spectrogram at your leasure. I need a utility that does this for the reverse beacon work that I spoke about at the HF convention. If anyone knows of a utility I would be grateful for the pointer, otherwise I will have to write it myself. 73 Stewart G3YSX Alan Melia wrote: > Hi Des, I left FFTDSP waterfall monitoring 136 for me whilst I had my beauty > sleep (at my age I need all I can get!). Your morse was just a little too > fast for my settings, which were set for a 3 second dot regime (I think that > approximates to about 0.4 wpm, I seem to remember that there are 47 > dot-equivalent elements in a standard word) Nevertheless your call was > readable here with some 'foresight' applied. and a locator of IO93OJ was > copied (without cheating). The crashes were quite low but were carving you > up a little such that I initially read your call as M0ALF. Spectrogram would > be much better under these circumstances but it is a lot more profligate > with the disc space (I'm running an old machine with a fairly small disc). I > must find a way of getting it to start up on a timer schedule without the > menu coming up. (Any ideas?? you computer whizzes) > I noticed your call started at 0520z on 137.450kHz, and drifted up to > 137.535 during the course of the transmission. I think I recognised a hand > speed call later further down the band with the same drift noticable. It was > not a problem to me as I was viewing a 1.2kHz slice of the band. I think you > would have been readable in a 500kHz filter here on hand keyed morse. Hope > you got a result from Peter > 73 de Alan G3NYK in JO02PB > Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12845 invoked from network); 14 Oct 1999 22:35:43 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 1999 22:35:43 +0100 Received: (qmail 17825 invoked from network); 14 Oct 1999 21:42:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Oct 1999 21:42:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bsIZ-0001Hp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:20:31 +0100 Received: from mail9.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.22]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bsIW-0001Hi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:20:28 +0100 Received: from modem-92.iron.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.12.220] helo=default) by mail9.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11bsIS-0007yz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:20:24 +0100 From: "Des Kostryca" To: "RSGB LF_Group" Subject: LF: Re:Des and slow cw test. Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:25:01 -0700 Message-ID: <000101bf16cd$a1726a00$dc0c883e@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Alan and the group, Alan wrote: >Nevertheless your call was >readable here with some 'foresight' applied. and a >locator of IO93OJ was >copied (without cheating). Outstanding! It also gave my little PA a good soak testing too :-) >I noticed your call started at 0520z on 137.450kHz, >and drifted up to >137.535 during the course of the transmission. Yes, I thought it might. By the time I thought about it I was already sending. When I had finished sending re-checked on my counter and noted the drift. The old FT 707 has a true vfo and while adequate for aural cw it falls flat on its face for slow cw. But at least the signal is very distinctive :-) Thanks Alan for taking a look and reporting the results. Unfortunately Peter did not copy my signals on Wednesday morning. We intend to try again tomorrow morning with a longer dot period (3 seconds) as both yourself and Rik suggested. This time we will be well inside the qrs segment. OK, to confirm. I shall start sending on Friday morning at 05:15 utc on a frequency of 137.685 kHz. Be prepared for some drift though :-) I shall pause my slow sending every 15 mins or so and listen (as RiK suggests) for any reply. If after one minute I can detect no signals I shall continue in slow cw. Thanks again for the feedback Alan. Regards to all. Des. Des Kostryca (M0AYF) G.Q.R.P. no. 9788 I.A.R.U. loc. IO93OJ W.A.B. SK89 Member of the N.B.T.V.A. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19720 invoked from network); 14 Oct 1999 23:05:08 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 1999 23:05:08 +0100 Received: (qmail 8128 invoked from network); 14 Oct 1999 22:05:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Oct 1999 22:05:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bsit-0001Vg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:47:43 +0100 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.18]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11bsis-0001Vb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:47:42 +0100 Received: from modem-31.taxol.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.88.31] helo=default) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11bsio-0003Lv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:47:39 +0100 From: "Des Kostryca" To: "RSGB LF_Group" Subject: LF: Re:DEs and slow cw test. Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:52:16 -0700 Message-ID: <000101bf16d1$704af600$1f58883e@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Alan and the group, Alan wrote: >Nevertheless your call was >readable here with some 'foresight' applied. and a >locator of IO93OJ was >copied (without cheating). Outstanding! It also gave my little PA a good soak testing too :-) >I noticed your call started at 0520z on 137.450kHz, >and drifted up to >137.535 during the course of the transmission. Yes, I thought it might. By the time I thought about it I was already sending. When I had finished sending re-checked on my counter and noted the drift. The old FT 707 has a true vfo and while adequate for aural cw it falls flat on its face for slow cw. But at least the signal is very distinctive :-) Thanks Alan for taking a look and reporting the results. Unfortunately Peter did not copy my signals on Wednesday morning. We intend to try again tomorrow morning with a longer dot period (3 seconds) as both yourself and Rik suggested. This time we will be well inside the qrs segment. OK, to confirm. I shall start sending on Friday morning at 05:15 utc on a frequency of 137.685 kHz. Be prepared for some drift though :-) I shall pause my slow sending every 15 mins or so and listen (as RiK suggests) for any reply. If after one minute I can detect no signals I shall continue in slow cw. Thanks again for the feedback Alan. Regards to all. Des. Des Kostryca (M0AYF) G.Q.R.P. no. 9788 I.A.R.U. loc. IO93OJ W.A.B. SK89 Member of the N.B.T.V.A. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19186 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 08:21:56 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 08:21:56 +0100 Received: (qmail 31901 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 07:22:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 07:22:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11c1Uy-0006Km-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:09:56 +0100 Received: from mta2-gui.server.ntli.net ([194.168.54.143] helo=mta2-svc.virgin.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11c1Uw-0006Kh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:09:55 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from virgin.net ([194.168.238.110]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19991015070855.DEAC19095.mta2-svc@virgin.net>; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:08:55 +0100 Message-ID: <3806D2AA.D0999A6B@virgin.net> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:07:22 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Stewart Bryant" Organization: . X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Alan Melia" Cc: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: re remote/timed start-ups References: <001d01bf1699$840b3e80$3d3dac3e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alan re recording .wav files (to feed into spectrogram), try http://www.nch.com.au/action/index.html It seems to be a wav recorder that you can set up on a timer. I have not tried it yet, but it looks promising Stewart G3YSX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6522 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 08:58:24 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 08:58:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 26083 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 08:05:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 08:05:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11c25l-0006gE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:47:57 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail1-gui.server.ntli.net ([194.168.222.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11c25h-0006g8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:47:54 +0100 Received: from cableol.co.uk ([194.168.18.74]) by mail1-gui.server.ntli.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-33929U70000L2S50) with ESMTP id AAA11301; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:33:22 +0100 Message-ID: <3806D71D.278D3CC5@cableol.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:26:22 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "Steve Baugh" <100042.134@compuserve.com> Subject: LF: First SM/GW QSO References: <000f01bf13e5$cf5d4ce0$645597d4@win95.swipnet.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a recent posting to the LF Group, Chris SM6PXJ wrote: > I will be on 136.8 at 20.30-21.00z mon-fri this week. Also in the morning at 04.00-04.30z. > > Suggestions for other (better) frequencies are welcomed. > Ever since I started listening on 136 kHz, I've been interested to learn more about LF propagation - especially in the early mornings. (Hence the 'Early Bird' tests of last year.) Also, members of the Group will recall the report from Mike G3XDV who noticed a 'spot' on a DX Cluster from RK2FWA, Kaliningrad who had heard my CQ calls around mid-night on 15th May of this year. Of course, I was delighted when Chris said he would be QRV so early in the day. It so happens that things came together nicely early in the early morning of Tuesday 12th October. Noise levels were low; there was no breeze; and my biological clock had woken me up at 0320 UT. I got dressed quickly; inflated a couple of balloons with helium; and soon had the 20 m vertical 'flying'. I heard Chris at 0402 and simply sent a single 'DE GW4ALG'. That was all Chris needed to establish the contact - propagation was fantastic. We easily exchanged reports; names; and locators. I was very excited! Of course, at that time of day, I started to wonder if the whole QSO had been just a dream! Later, I checked Chris's web site, and found me listed as his 'best DX' at 1294 km [since bettered by his subsequent QSO with IK5ZPV the following day.] Chris's signal faded from S7 at 0402; to S6 at 0420; to S5 at 0440. This brings my total to 11 countries and 61 stations - all normal CW. It seems to me that, as a Group, we should do more tests at night. But many things have to be in harmony to make such DX QSOs - especially, at GW4ALG: No Breeze! Thanks for the QSO, Chris! A splendid initiative on your part! Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7731 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 09:01:42 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 09:01:42 +0100 Received: (qmail 27775 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 08:08:38 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 08:08:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11c27G-0006gP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:49:30 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11c27F-0006gK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:49:29 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA11358 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:56:13 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991015094920.2d877d3e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:49:20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: early morning propagation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This morning at 04 UT I had a sked with Valerio, IK5ZPV. But when I tuned up my TX I noticed that the antenna was detuned for some reason reducing my antennacurrent from the usual 1.9A to 1.6A (minus 1.5dB). Since it was still dark I couldn't get out to adjust the loading coil. Next dissapointement was that Valerio's signal was no stronger than it was during the evening (539), only QRN was a bit better. I replied several times to his CQ's, but without succes. Arround 04.30 I heard SM6PXJ calling CQ with a very good 559 signal (compared to the 429 I could hear him in the evening). At my second attempt Christer copied my call and we had a QSO (gave 559, got 439). Christer's signal was about 10dB stronger at 04.30 UT than it was at 20-21 UT. So the early moring propagation seems mainly to improve conditions in northern directions (at least from Belgium). So to the stations in PA, south UK and central-DL (where propagation is probably the same) : if you want to work SM/OH try to make an early morning sked. 73, Rik ON7YD Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25181 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 09:39:29 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 09:39:29 +0100 Received: (qmail 23449 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 06:59:44 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 06:59:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11c0yA-00064G-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:36:02 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hk.czcom.cz ([195.146.99.2] helo=serverhk.czcom.cz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11c0y9-00064B-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:36:01 +0100 Received: from lasvegas.GMCCZ ([195.146.99.12]) by serverhk.czcom.cz (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57399U3000L300S0V35) with ESMTP id cz for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:35:59 +0200 Received: by LASVEGAS with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) id ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:33:00 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: From: "Petr Maly" To: "'136'" Subject: LF: Spectrograms from cottage Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:32:57 +0200 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LowFers, I put spectrograms from "expedition" to the cottage that I undertook last weekend. Visit: http://www.mujweb.cz/www/ok1fig/s_galler.htm I hope it is worth clicking. 73! Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12767 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 10:28:19 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 10:28:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 17536 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 09:21:59 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 09:21:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11c3O3-0007PZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:10:55 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gatef.bbc.co.uk ([132.185.132.15] helo=gatef.kw.bbc.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11c3O2-0007PU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:10:55 +0100 Received: from sunf0.rd.bbc.co.uk (ddmailgate.rd.bbc.co.uk [132.185.128.104]) by gatef.kw.bbc.co.uk (8.8.5/8.7.2) with SMTP id KAA08340 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:10:51 +0100 (BST) Received: from pc523 by sunf0.rd.bbc.co.uk; Fri, 15 Oct 99 10:10:51 BST X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991015101050.009f5c30@sunf0> X-Sender: simonlh@sunf0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:10:50 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Simon Lloyd-Hughes" Subject: LF: Interference on 73 KHz and 136 KHz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: It was nice to see so many enthusiasts at Windsor. Following the meeting I am interested in the possible interference that has been noted on the reflector especially in the UK. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2721 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 13:40:15 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 13:40:15 +0100 Received: (qmail 17987 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 12:40:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 12:40:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11c6Q2-0000Z5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:25:10 +0100 Received: from smtp.mail.big-orange.net ([143.179.236.31] helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11c6Q0-0000Z0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:25:09 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.150.57]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA5F6F for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:24:59 +0200 Message-ID: <003a01bf1709$92680ba0$3996b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Fw: [psk31] Lowfer/Medfer PSK31 Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:28:26 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: G.J.Huijsman Aan: Dick Rollema Datum: donderdag 14 oktober 1999 11:46 Onderwerp: Fw: [psk31] Lowfer/Medfer PSK31 > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >Van: Peter Martinez >Aan: psk31@aintel.bi.ehu.es >Datum: woensdag 13 oktober 1999 21:06 >Onderwerp: [psk31] Lowfer/Medfer PSK31 > > >>>From Peter Martinez G3PLX >> >>Congratulations to Clint KA7OEI on the hardware implementations of >>PSK31 for low-frequency work. Personally I think the hardware >>implementations of PSK31 have been rather neglected. Perhaps this is >>a side-effect of the software version being cost-free! Some >>interesting applications of PSK31 have probably not yet seen the >>light of day as a result. Clint's work is valuable in this respect. >> >>Here's a few of my own ideas for exploring the PSK31 scene with >>hardware for VLF and other areas:- >> >>1. Transmitting "squarewave" PSK31, although it would be considered >>very antisocial on HF radio, is a valid way of doing it when we are >>not concerned with adjacent-channel QRM. I am thinking of underground >>induction field communication at VLF, and other non-radio >>applications where we are fighting the noise level and not the QRM. A >>Class C power amplifier, designed more like a switchmode PSU than a >>transmitter, fed with PSK31 generated with an XOR gate, will be ideal >>for this task. Be careful that if this kind of transmitter is >>connected to a very high Q VLF antenna, there can be disastrous >>effects when the transmitter reverses phase and the high level of >>stored energy in the antenna circuit is dumped back into the >>transmitter! Check the reverse ENERGY capability of the transmitter >>rather than the reverse POWER rating. This probably doesn't apply to >>USA lowfer activity, but could apply to the European 136kHz >>allocation where you might have a 1 kW transmitter to radiate the >>permitted 1 watt e.r.p. >> >>2. Note that if the transmitter is hard-limited in this way, the >>receive filter in the current software PSK31 receive-side is not >>quite optimum, since this is matched to the cosine envelope of the >>software PSK31 transmit-side. Slightly better results (by which I >>mean performance in Gaussian noise and not adjacent-channel >>rejection) can be achieved with a filter matched to the square-wave >>transmit envelope. The classic "Integrate and dump" filter (or the >>equivalent using analogue delay lines) is right for this task, and is >>quite easy to build in hardware. More good reasons to experiment with >>simple hardware PSK31 receivers. >> >>3. On HF the PSK31 receive signal is demodulated incoherently, by >>comparing the phase of one symbol with the previous one. The >>transmission is encoded differentially to match this, but we can gain >>an extra 3dB of weak-signal performance if the path is stable enough >>to let us demodulate coherently. We don't even need to reconfigure >>the transmission coding to do this, since we can get the same answer >>as differential incoherent demodulation by using coherent >>demodulation followed by differential decoding. VLF applications, >>whether radio or induction-field, are certainly stable enough. The >>only penalty will be that it will take a little longer to lock in at >>the start of a transmission, but we could easily switch between >>incoherent and coherent if that's a problem. This is another area for >>exploration with simple hardware demodulators. >> >>4. Although QPSK is noticably better that BPSK on HF where there is >>QSB and burst noise, when the limiting factor is Gaussian noise, BPSK >>is better. This could mean that simple BPSK may be the best choice >>for some non-HF applications of PSK31. The Lowfer/Medfer area might >>suffer from atmospheric static which could mean QPSK had the >>advantage there, but for underground reception of VLF, or laser >>working, or perhaps even underwater acoustics, hard-limited BPSK >>transmit and coherent integrate-and-dump would be my suggestion for >>the best way to go. >> >>73 >>Peter >> >> >>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>to unsuscribe from the list send to majordomo@aintel.bi.ehu.es a message >>with a text line as follow: unsubscribe psk31 or unsubscribe psk31-digest >> >>More instructions on PSK31 Webpage: http://aintel.bi.ehu.es/psk31.html >>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22942 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 14:31:13 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 14:31:13 +0100 Received: (qmail 21977 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 13:04:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 13:04:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11c6pb-0000ll-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:51:35 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11c6pa-0000lf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:51:34 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id NAA23069 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:51:29 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <1999101514051168199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:05:11 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re: LF Activity Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit I'm not sure wether its my imagination but the Loran does not seem to be quite as bad as it used to be. Or perhaps the transmitters and antennas are more efficient now On the night when John was on with his ZL4 visitor I heard IK5ZPV calling CQ for quite a long time (I did call but to no avail). Last night I heard SM6PXJ calling CQ for nearly an hour. I managed to work him 549 both ways after I had sorted out my troublesome remote control system. I also heard a QSO on 136.57 one of the operators sending at about 15WPM. I also heard a station on 137.11 calling QRZ Who was it? -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19567 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 15:15:37 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 15:15:37 +0100 Received: (qmail 16324 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 12:29:17 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 12:29:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11c6Dm-0000Sy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:12:30 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11c6Dl-0000St-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:12:29 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA12611 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:19:16 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991015141222.268f4dda@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:12:22 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: DX on 136kHz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: During the next months I will be giving some talks about 136kHz in various radioclubs here in Belgium. In this talks I want to give an overview of what distances can be covered on this band and therefore would need a list of all +1000km QSO's made so far, including the mode (normal CW of visual CW) and (if available) the WW-locator. I would appreciate it if those who have one or more +1000km QSO's in their logs could send me a list. 73 and many thanks in advance, Rik ON7YD Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15267 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 16:31:42 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 16:31:42 +0100 Received: (qmail 14003 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 15:32:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 15:32:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11c8vE-000235-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:05:32 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11c8vC-000230-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:05:31 +0100 Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:05:24 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de (PC10846.dial.uni-kiel.de [134.245.108.46]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA19927 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:06:02 +0200 (MET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <380742A5.66229BFF@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:05:09 +0200 From: "Peter W. Schnoor" Organization: University of Kiel, Clinic of Nephrology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RTTY test... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello, I will send out some test transmissions in RTTY at 137.5 kHz (mark) next days. Mode: +100 Hz shift, 45 baud (according to RC Handbook approx. 61.3 wpm), ITU2. To minimize QRM at reduced output. Any protest or is this frequency O.K.? QSLs are welcome... 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24359 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 16:59:36 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 16:59:36 +0100 Received: (qmail 18403 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 15:59:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 15:59:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11c9Oq-0002KQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:36:08 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.138] helo=spdmgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11c9Oo-0002HK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:36:07 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id LAA19335 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:35:33 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:34:09 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: RTTY test... To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199910151134_MC2-8925-6D83@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Peter, >Any protest or is this frequency O.K.? this frequency is in perfect agreement with the gentlemen's agreement bandplan worked out at the LF Forum during the RSGB HF (and LF) Convention in Old Windsor last week, documented by John, G3WKL. Basically, the forum came up with the following: 135.700 - 136.000 local tests and temporary beacon transmissions 136.000 - 137.100 CW 137.100 - 137.600 non-CW modes (such as PSK31, RTTY, etc.) 137.600 - 137.800 Slow-CW Did I forget anything? Peter, I will try to re-activate my RTTY programs and hope be able to establish a contact. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24622 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 17:00:41 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 17:00:41 +0100 Received: (qmail 18578 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 16:01:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 16:01:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11c9S1-0002LA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:39:25 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-2.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.135] helo=spdmgaab.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11c9S0-0002Kv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:39:25 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id LAA28860 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:38:43 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:37:39 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Re: LF Activity To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199910151138_MC2-8925-6DB4@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3LDO wrote >I also heard a QSO on 136.57 one of the operators sending at about 15WPM. >I also heard a station on 137.11 calling QRZ > >Who was it? Peter, it depends on the time. I had a nice QSO with my neighbor DJ6FU (about 118 km away) before 18.00 UTC on or around 136.500 using approximately that speed. Or are you referring to later in the night (normally I sign off at 20.00 UTC). Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17433 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 18:18:43 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 18:18:43 +0100 Received: (qmail 20570 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 17:25:41 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 17:25:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11cAqd-0003CK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:08:55 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from kuku-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.63] helo=kuku.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11cAqc-0003CC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:08:54 +0100 Received: from bronty.excite.com ([199.172.153.112]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <19991015165550.MQLS22257.kuku.excite.com@bronty.excite.com> for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:55:50 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: LF Activity Message-ID: <940006551.22598.720@excite.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:55:51 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 212.140.79.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Peter wrote: "I'm not sure whether its my imagination but the Loran does not seem to be quite as bad as it used to be. Or perhaps the transmitters and antennas are more efficient now......" On the contrary, at this location (IO91ML)Loran has become noticeably worse during the day time over the last few days. During the summer months for all intents and purposes I couldn't hear it on the 136 band. I leave my receiver on virtually all day, since I work from home and have made no changes to the receiver or antenna for several months, so changes in reception are quite noticeable. Regards to the group John Sexton, G4CNN ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27852 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 18:59:56 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 18:59:56 +0100 Received: (qmail 3951 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 18:00:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 18:00:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11cBTh-0003Z2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:49:17 +0100 Received: from mb06.swip.net ([193.12.122.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11cBTg-0003Yx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:49:16 +0100 Received: from win95 (d212-151-40-163.swipnet.se [212.151.40.163]) by mb06.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA13535 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 19:49:11 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <004801bf1735$f2bde520$133c97d4@win95.swipnet.se> From: "Christer Andersson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SV: Re: LF Activity Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 19:51:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3LDO wrote: >I also heard a station on 137.11 calling QRZ > >Who was it? It was me. 73 Christer, SM6PXJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2253 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 21:28:18 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 21:28:18 +0100 Received: (qmail 23948 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 20:28:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 20:28:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11cDpW-0004sQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:19:58 +0100 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11cDpV-0004sL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:19:57 +0100 Received: from modem-125.sigrene-small-fish.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.201.125] helo=default) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11cDpS-0002B5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:19:54 +0100 From: "Des Kostryca" To: "RSGB LF_Group" Subject: LF: Philips PM5140 L.F. signal generator. Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:24:35 -0700 Message-ID: <000f01bf178e$5a4aa720$7dc9883e@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To all on the list, I recently attended the Lincoln Hamfest and bought a Philips PM5140 LF signal generator for the princely sum of five UK pounds. I bought this on impulse and hardly expected it to work...but it does. So far it has saved me many hours of testing time and in spite of its age seems to work very well, and keeps the shack warm too. However the generator has a number of functions and buttons I am not sure about. A switched attenuator, 600 Ohm balanced O/P etc. I don't seem to be able to get the attenuator to work but it may be the way I am using it (wrongly) so if anyone on the list has one of these generators or has used one then I would be grateful for a "driving lesson" :-) Better still, if anyone has a hand book or circuit diagrams etc I would be grateful for copy(s), all expenses gladly covered. Re:The slow cw tests I conducted the past two mornings, not very successful but very informative in respect of my stations current shortcomings.Thanks to all who took the time to have a look for my (drifting) signals. All-in-all though its been a very exciting first week on LF. The best fun since I got my M0* call. I look forward to working more of you soon. Regards to all. Des. Des Kostryca (M0AYF) G.Q.R.P. no. 9788 I.A.R.U. loc. IO93OJ W.A.B. SK89 Member of the N.B.T.V.A. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1633 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 23:47:21 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 23:47:21 +0100 Received: (qmail 14620 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 22:47:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 22:47:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11cG0Z-00063A-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:39:31 +0100 Received: from neodymium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.83]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11cG0Y-000635-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:39:30 +0100 Received: from [195.99.58.23] (helo=default) by neodymium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11cG0Q-00029r-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:39:23 +0100 Message-ID: <000d01bf175d$6f99a1c0$173a63c3@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Fri 15th morning activity Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:33:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I listened and copied Des M0AYF this morning a good 'O' . I noticed that there was a lot of activity starting about 0405z on 137.07. Signal traces seen on 136.80, 136.83, and at 0429z 136.69. There was obviously a qso made. As my loop was angled N-S to favour Des I wonder if this was Christer. A 'large' signal came up at 0608z on 137.21, and was I think called by a station about 60Hz lower in frequency, but no qso. The signal moved to 136.9 at 0655z.....then my local rasping noise came up at 0705z. (GMTV??) I also noticed a weak RTTY signal trace on 137.07/137.18 (110Hz shift??) that I don't remember seeing before (possibly because I don't often align the loop this way.) I suspect also that CFH was just visible off the side of the loop. This is the first time I have seen CFH since the end of August. Though I have not looked every night, it should be visible by midnight local time now if it is going to appear at all (local noises permitting). The GB7DXM Cluster is back on air so hopefully some spots after the weekend. Good DX and Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8129 invoked from network); 16 Oct 1999 10:07:12 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Oct 1999 10:07:12 +0100 Received: (qmail 1672 invoked from network); 16 Oct 1999 09:07:35 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Oct 1999 09:07:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11cPaA-0002gp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 09:52:54 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from kuku-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.63] helo=kuku.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11cPa9-0002gi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 09:52:53 +0100 Received: from erin.excite.com ([198.3.99.254]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <19991016085214.RFDM22257.kuku.excite.com@erin.excite.com> for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 01:52:14 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <940063934.20615.429@excite.com> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 01:52:14 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 212.140.116.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave, G3YMC, Thanks for making me feel welcome at Bracknell. Derek's talk was very interesting, although like you it is now becoming quite familiar. I am surprised how much I have learnt just by listening and of course reading the reflector. It also helps to actually see the hardware, to put it into perspective. By the way I heard you for the first time on Monday or Tuesday, sorry I have lost the note I made at the time. You were about 1 or 2 S-points weaker than G4GVC. Also yesterday afternoon I heard G3LDO for the first time. What a strong signal! I thought that John G4GVC was the strongest on the band, but G3LDO knocks spots off his signal at my location. If I had an S-meter it would probably have read 20 over 9. I am still planning to set up a station, but the first thing is the antenna. My time has been taken up recently building a Howes AT160 kit for my daughter (17), who has recently taken her novice exam and is about to do the Morse test. 73s John Sexton G4CNN computernetworks@excite.com http://homepages.infoseek.com/~johnsexton/Home_page.htm ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11867 invoked from network); 16 Oct 1999 10:22:57 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Oct 1999 10:22:57 +0100 Received: (qmail 13607 invoked from network); 16 Oct 1999 06:43:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Oct 1999 06:43:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11cN8Y-0001QH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 07:16:14 +0100 Received: from ds-img-rel-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.140] helo=spdmraaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11cN8X-0001QC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 07:16:13 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) id CAA17374 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 02:16:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave (host62-6-118-83.host.btclick.com [62.6.118.83]) by spdmraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) with SMTP id CAA17320 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 02:15:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000101bf179d$c1ae6780$5376063e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: G3GRO Talk at Bracknell Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:15:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Many thanks for all of you who took the time to transmit for us on Wednesday evening during Derek G3GRO's talk at the Bracknell Club. In fact we were so engrossed listening to Derek that we had very little time for listening apart from a couple of short periods. That demonstrated that the use of 1m indoor loops on 136 is most disappointing, as we only heard DCF39 (S9+10) and the Greek RTTY very weakly, together with S9 electrical noise. Derek's talk however was excellent, and even our VHF members found much of interest. Many thanks again Derek. 73s Dave G3YMC sergeantd@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd ps. An excellent week on the band for me, with GB4RS, M0AYF and G3KZU for new ones, and I nearly worked G0AKY in Worthing as well. It is nice to hear some new stations on the band now that winter is approaching. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14265 invoked from network); 17 Oct 1999 14:58:52 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 17 Oct 1999 14:58:52 +0100 Received: (qmail 9705 invoked from network); 17 Oct 1999 13:59:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Oct 1999 13:59:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11cqP8-0007wt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 14:31:18 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-6.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.139] helo=spdmgaaf.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11cqP7-0007wn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 14:31:17 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaaf.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id JAA14049 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 09:30:37 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 09:30:15 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Crocodile Dundee ... To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199910170930_MC2-894E-BF46@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello friends, sorry for those calling me in vain or those wondering abou the bad reports I suddenly gave. I just detected, that after an insufficient repair-job at my MV62, that I use as LF receiver, since some weeks I had a faulty connection in the switch that selects the dBu-range. Any signal below -80 dBu, the sensitivity was reduced by aboot -20 dB. I did realize that signal levels had dropped but I was unable to explain this, because my reference station DCF39 was -25 dBu as before. Despite this reduced sensistivity, I had some nice QSOs and worked a new-one (OZ8NJ near Copenhagen). My receiver is back in service and I will give much better reports again now! Best regards Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) P.S.: Peter, DF3LP, I heard your RTTY tests but only was partially able to copy them, this is due to my RTTY program. I have to find the proper adjustments again. Nest time I hear you I will try my old Hamcomm-modem. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25303 invoked from network); 17 Oct 1999 19:14:22 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 17 Oct 1999 19:14:22 +0100 Received: (qmail 22773 invoked from network); 17 Oct 1999 18:14:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Oct 1999 18:14:54 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11cufD-0001cf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 19:04:11 +0100 Received: from orodruin-ip.esoterica.pt ([209.198.242.62] helo=orodruin.esoterica.pt) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11cufC-0001ca-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 19:04:10 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from tut.esoterica.pt (tut.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.132]) by orodruin.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02395 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 19:04:10 GMT Received: from por044.esoterica.pt (por044.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.44]) by tut.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA29882 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 19:03:42 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Warning: tut.esoterica.pt: por044.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.44] didn't use HELO protocol Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991017180545.0080b4d0@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 18:05:45 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: For Heinz OE5EEP In-reply-to: <000001bf14e0$5ad68020$357a8cd4@dave> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Further apologies. I have a 12nF type 376 from Philips and have been trying to find a data sheet on the Philips web site without success. Can anybody help? Incidentally I can buy some values quite easily if anybody is stuck. 73's de Brian CT1DRP At 15:02 12/10/99 +0100, you wrote: >Apologies for putting this on the reflector. I have had a request from Heinz OE5EEP for sourcing information on Philips 376 capacitors. Unfortunately all mails to his address (oe5eep@qsl.net) are getting returned. If you get this Heinz please tell me if there are problems with your ISP. > >73s Dave G3YMC >sergeantd@compuserve.com >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18841 invoked from network); 17 Oct 1999 23:27:28 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 17 Oct 1999 23:27:28 +0100 Received: (qmail 27208 invoked from network); 17 Oct 1999 22:28:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Oct 1999 22:28:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11cycB-0003f2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:17:19 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11cyc9-0003ex-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:17:18 +0100 Received: from [195.171.250.56] (helo=default) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11cyc0-0004vV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:17:09 +0100 Message-ID: <002501bf18ec$a7418260$38faabc3@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for 16th/17th Oct at GB7DXM Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:09:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, the Cluster seems to be working ok again, but it was very slow access for me during the day. Stations heard on Saturday G3XDV and DK8KW on QRS cw early and in the afternoon G3XTZ working DK8KW. At normal speed G4GVC working EI0CF I could see the trace for Finbar but just could not read him. G3XDV, G3XTZ, DK8KW G3KEV, GW4ALG, G6RO, G3BMQ. Is someone running a beacon on 137.375 or do I have to go 'birdie hunting'? That lot was in between busts of my local QRM. On Sunday, G3XDV and I think Geri DK8KW calling IK5ZPV on QRS, and ON7YD working DL8ZR. I don't know whether someone's tx expired but at one stage I copied a weak 'IK5E' then nothing. I am sure I heard PA2NJN later on but its not on my record, though there is a 'gram file on disk. The band seemed quite quiet, the 'crunches' at my end not being too intrusive. Rik was asking about early morning propagation to Sweden during the week. This prompted me to look at Geoclock. It would seem that both ends of the path are in darkness until about 0600z. There may be some interesting enhancements as the sun rises, but before the absorbtion starts to increase. Thanks to Stewart G3YSX, we have found a program that will automatically record at .wav file at a requested time and date. I don't need get up before lunch time at weekends now!! The only draw back is it records at full resolution 22k samples/sec, and in mono uses at least 90Mbyte/hour. I had 130meg left on that disk and it crashed on a 90min run.....so I will have to put a bigger disk in my machine. As disks are cheap now this seems a handy way of going back and 'reprocessing' a signal with different filters, or different Spectrogram parameters . I was wrong Stewart the program isn't emasculated and is very friendly to install and run. There is also a tone generator available in the suite with the ability to produce sine square or triangle wave tones with impulse and white noise as well.....quite useful. If you are interested, try http://www.nch.com.au/action/index.htm This weeks Cluster spots, with the duplicate entries and misposts , and States-side 160m spots (!) edited out. G3NYK de GB7DXM 17-Oct 2040Z > 136.8 OE5PGL 17-Oct-1999 0825Z 429 cq 136.7 DL3FDO 17-Oct-1999 0819Z 549 137.1 DJ1ZB 17-Oct-1999 0810Z 529 137.3 DJ1RL 17-Oct-1999 0808Z cq 539 in jn48wl 136.0 DL0XYZ 13-Oct-1999 1848Z testspot 136.6 I5MXX 11-Oct-1999 2053Z cq (539) 136.8 G3KEV 11-Oct-1999 1745Z cq (549 fb) 136.5 DJ6FU 11-Oct-1999 1707Z cq G3NYK de GB7DXM 17-Oct 2044Z > 1800.0 DF6NM 17-Oct-1999 0904Z [137kHz] CQ Visual-CW 1800.0 DJ1RL 17-Oct-1999 0837Z 137.0 559 in JN48SS 1800.0 DL3FDO 17-Oct-1999 0827Z 136.7 449 1800.0 DK8KW 17-Oct-1999 0825Z [137kHz] called IK5ZPV 1800.0 IK5ZPV 17-Oct-1999 0824Z [137kHz] CQ on Visual-CW 1800.0 DJ6FU 11-Oct-1999 1707Z 549 on 136.4 G3NYK de GB7DXM 17-Oct 2046Z > Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2392 invoked from network); 18 Oct 1999 07:00:04 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Oct 1999 07:00:04 +0100 Received: (qmail 108 invoked from network); 18 Oct 1999 06:07:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Oct 1999 06:07:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11d5Mg-0007En-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 06:29:46 +0100 Received: from dh-img-rel-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.132] helo=hpdmraaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11d5Me-0007Ei-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 06:29:45 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpdmraaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-REL-1.2) id BAA06558 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 01:29:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave (host62-6-119-220.host.btclick.com [62.6.119.220]) by hpdmraaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-REL-1.2) with SMTP id BAA06550 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 01:29:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000401bf1929$8a482280$dc77063e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: 'Dead spots' on 136 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 06:27:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Peter DF3LP wrote: "Meinen Glueckwunsch! Es ist erstaunlich, aber ich liege offensichtlich in einer toten Zone um SM6PXJ. Ausser einigen Bruchstuecken habe ich noch nie etwas von ihm gehoert. Im Gegensatz zu SM4DHN, der ist hier sehr laut, aber weiter weg. Vestehe ich alles nicht..." Peter is not alone in noticing differences in propogation from different locations. There is still much we do not know about 136 propogation. Stations that some (or many) operators copy very well are sometimes inaudible here, whereas on other paths I seem to copy as well as anybody. I have not had any chance to listen to the SM ops yet, but I have no copy on OH1TN even though other G stations copy and work him with incredible reports. However Toni HB9ASB I often copy well, and I5MXX and IK5ZPV are 579 most evenings. There is rising ground to the east, and true my loop favours a north-south direction, but that doesn't fully explain the huge difference in signal strengths I get in these two directions. Possibly it is related to things like antenna height (my loop is quite low). Do not despair Peter - you may not understand it all, but if you can manage a QSO with SM4DHN it is all worth it! 73s Dave G3YMC sergeantd@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12788 invoked from network); 18 Oct 1999 08:25:35 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Oct 1999 08:25:35 +0100 Received: (qmail 9405 invoked from network); 18 Oct 1999 07:26:10 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Oct 1999 07:26:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11d70y-00085C-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:15:28 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11d70y-000857-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:15:28 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA10267 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:22:11 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991018091511.2dc75ec0@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:15:11 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: RTTY test... In-reply-to: <199910151134_MC2-8925-6D83@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 11:34 15/10/99 -0400, DK8KW wrote: >this frequency is in perfect agreement with the gentlemen's agreement >bandplan worked out at the LF Forum during the RSGB HF (and LF) Convention >in Old Windsor last week, documented by John, G3WKL. > >Basically, the forum came up with the following: > >135.700 - 136.000 local tests and temporary beacon transmissions >136.000 - 137.100 CW >137.100 - 137.600 non-CW modes (such as PSK31, RTTY, etc.) >137.600 - 137.800 Slow-CW I wasn't aware that in agreement with the 'bandplan' there should be not CW above 137100. And taking into account the many CW signals heard up to 137500 many others are in the same situation. One practical remark : due to commercial QRM the band is useless for weaks signal reception below 136500 (at least here in Belgium). This would mean that in practice there is only 600Hz bandwidth for CW while we reserve 500Hz for almost non-existing modes. I agree that new modes must be encouraged and that we sould have a segment for it, but 500Hz seems just too much to me. Maybe a 200Hz segment would be enough (137400 - 137600). 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15696 invoked from network); 18 Oct 1999 08:42:02 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Oct 1999 08:42:02 +0100 Received: (qmail 26187 invoked from network); 18 Oct 1999 07:49:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Oct 1999 07:49:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11d7He-0008EU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:32:42 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as-img-6.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.151] helo=spamgaaf.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11d7Hd-0008EP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:32:41 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaaf.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id DAA06359 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 03:32:37 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 03:32:18 -0400 From: "Holger 'Geri', DK8KW" Subject: LF: Bandplan To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199910180332_MC2-8956-A9A0@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik, ON7YD wrote: >One practical remark : due to commercial QRM the band is useless for weaks >signal reception below 136500 (at least here in Belgium). This would mean >that in practice there is only 600Hz bandwidth for CW while we reserve >500Hz for almost non-existing modes. I agree that new modes must be >encouraged and that we sould have a segment for it, but 500Hz seems just >too much to me. Maybe a 200Hz segment would be enough (137400 - 137600). Rik, maybe someone else can provide the "minutes of meeting" of the LF forum better than me, I just noted down what I thought we came up with. There was some discussion on the bandwidth for new modes and a comment was made that for example clover needs four frequencies with the two "edge" frequencies 500 Hz apart. As was said, it still seems to be possible to run CW QSOs in between those four frequencies, provided, you have a narrow filter. Other modes, such as HELL also need more than 200 Hz. Maybe (and I think this was part of the discussion), CW could be used 136.000-137.600 kHz, with non-CW modes sharing a common CW range between 137.100 and 137.400 kHz. Pse hw? Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23769 invoked from network); 18 Oct 1999 09:22:27 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Oct 1999 09:22:27 +0100 Received: (qmail 22773 invoked from network); 18 Oct 1999 08:29:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Oct 1999 08:29:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11d7u1-00003C-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:12:21 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hk.czcom.cz ([195.146.99.2] helo=serverhk.czcom.cz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11d7ty-000033-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:12:19 +0100 Received: from lasvegas.GMCCZ ([195.146.99.31]) by serverhk.czcom.cz (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57399U3000L300S0V35) with ESMTP id cz for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:12:11 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by LASVEGAS with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) id ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:08:47 +0200 Message-ID: From: "Petr Maly" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: RTTY test... Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:08:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit RE: LF: RTTY test...

I agree, and I have additional argument. In Czech republic, there are only CW modes allowed. What about in other countries?

Petr, OK1FIG

    -----Pùvodní zpráva-----
    Od:     Rik Strobbe [SMTP:rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be]
    Odesláno:       18. øíjna 1999 11:15
    Komu:   rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
    Pøedmìt:        Re: LF: RTTY test...

    At 11:34 15/10/99 -0400, DK8KW wrote:
    >this frequency is in perfect agreement with the gentlemen's agreement
    >bandplan worked out at the LF Forum during the RSGB HF (and LF) Convention
    >in Old Windsor last week, documented by John, G3WKL.
    >
    >Basically, the forum came up with the following:
    >
    >135.700 - 136.000       local tests and temporary beacon transmissions
    >136.000 - 137.100       CW
    >137.100 - 137.600       non-CW modes (such as PSK31, RTTY, etc.)
    >137.600 - 137.800       Slow-CW

    I wasn't aware that in agreement with the 'bandplan' there should be not CW
    above 137100. And taking into account the many CW signals heard up to
    137500 many others are in the same situation.

    One practical remark : due to commercial QRM the band is useless for weaks
    signal reception below 136500 (at least here in Belgium). This would mean
    that in practice there is only 600Hz bandwidth for CW while we reserve
    500Hz for almost non-existing modes. I agree that new modes must be
    encouraged and that we sould have a segment for it, but 500Hz seems just
    too much to me. Maybe a 200Hz segment would be enough (137400 - 137600).

    73, Rik  ON7YD

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12360 invoked from network); 18 Oct 1999 10:38:32 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Oct 1999 10:38:32 +0100 Received: (qmail 6398 invoked from network); 18 Oct 1999 09:39:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Oct 1999 09:39:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11d940-0000gy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:26:44 +0100 Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11d93z-0000gt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:26:43 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:23:42 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de ([194.94.166.130]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA06251 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:24:19 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <380AE684.F38BECA@nephro.uni-kiel.de> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:21:08 +0200 From: "P. W. Schnoor" Organization: Clinic of Nephrology, University of Kiel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586) X-Accept-Language: de, en To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Bandplan References: <199910180332_MC2-8956-A9A0@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Group, 'Geri', DK8KW" wrote: > Pse hw? I don't think that we really need a bandplan. 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11900 invoked from network); 18 Oct 1999 12:42:34 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Oct 1999 12:42:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 1313 invoked from network); 18 Oct 1999 11:49:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Oct 1999 11:49:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dAze-0001mC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:30:22 +0100 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dAzd-0001m7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:30:21 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 11dB0a-0003qJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:31:22 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:28:24 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:28:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Activity week ending 17 Oct X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Tuesday 12 October QSO with PA2NJN using extremely slow CW (Q{HYPERLINK "lf.htm" \l "qrs"}RSs). Reports were 'O'/'O'. The 47th station worked on 136kHz. Thursday 14 October HeardOH1TN (539). Saturday 16 October Got up at 0540 to catch the early DX but heard only two stations (GW4ALG, G4GVC) for two hours! Quite high QRN. HeardG4GVC (599); G3KEV (599); DJ5DI (339); G0AKY (549) a new one for me, number 71 heard on the band; G3BDQ (599). WorkedGW4ALG (gave 579, got 589); EI0CF (549/459 - a much better report than our previous contact). Saw on Spectrogram, QRSs from PA2NJN ('O' and S2); G3XTZ ('0' and S9); DK8KW ('O' and S2). Sunday 17 October Got up early again, and again there was very little activity and some QRN. HeardG3BDQ (599); G6RO (unusually weak at 439); G3YMC (439); G4GVC (599). Saw on Spectrogram, QRSs signals from PA2NJN ('O') and IK5ZPV ('M') at 0715. Dave,G3YXM tells me that OK1FIG reported on the DXCluster that he had seen my slow CW this weekend. That's my best distance so far at about 1200km. Mike From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8065 invoked from network); 18 Oct 1999 14:19:49 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Oct 1999 14:19:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 24775 invoked from network); 18 Oct 1999 13:27:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Oct 1999 13:27:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dCTn-0002az-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:05:35 +0100 Received: from apollo.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.125]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dCTm-0002au-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:05:34 +0100 Received: from [143.210.25.171] (helo=kate) by apollo.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.02 #2) id 11dCTU-0007Wu-01 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:05:16 +0100 From: "kate moore" To: "lfgroup" Subject: LF: Weekend report Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:52:56 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Stations worked here during the weekend on 136kHz using normal speed CW: Friday 15/10 G3LDO (17.25:UT gave him 599, he gave me 589), EI0CF (20.58: 359QRN, 459?). Saturday 16/10 EI0CF (07.53: 579, 569), DK8KW (08.47: 569, 339), G6RO (15.25: 57/89, 599), EI0CF (17.32: 579, 569). Sunday 17/10 G3YMC (07.26: 569, 599), G6RO (07.51: 579, 599), PA2NJN (08.14: 559, 529), ON7YD (09.08: 559QSB/QSB, 559QRN), DJ5DI (10.07: 559QRN, 549QRN), PA0BWL (10.23: 449QRN, 549), GW4ALG (10.43: 599, 599), EI0CF (11.10: 579, 569). Two new stations in the log this week - DJ6FU who I worked on Thursday and Wil PA0BWL on Sunday - taking my tally up to 72. Those of you who went to Windsor will have met Wil there. Static levels still seem high, especially in the evenings, and Friday was particularly bad here. I was very pleased to get the call from Finbar, but really struggled to copy him through the crashes, hence my uncertain report that night. It's good to hear you back on the band Finbar - your signal is fine, as later contacts confirmed, but that night the noise was terrible. I also heard Lars SM4DHN at good strength and called him several times, but he was suffering with the static too (he only gave Reino 449!), so he didn't hear me. Activity levels on Saturday were fairly low, but I was pleased to have another QSO with Geri DK8KW. Unfortunately, although Geri was an excellent signal here, he wasn't copying me too well so we limited it more or less to exchanging reports. Sunday morning was better with 6 countries worked. I heard Rik ON7YD working Wil, but could detect nothing of Wil at that time. After a solid QSO with Rik, he informed me that Wil was calling me - I could still hear nothing so Rik kindly passed me Wil's report. After working Fred DJ5DI I suddenly heard PA0BWL calling at RST-449! We made a good contact, and Steve GW4ALG also heard and called him. Around an hour later I heard Rik calling Finbar, noting that Rik was also up in strength to 569, so conditions obviously improved as the morning progressed. Regards John G4GVC near Leicester, IO92JP ** TX: Synth + 400W RF from modified 'G3YXM' Mosfet PA ** ** RX: TS-850S with 3 x CW filters and 0.5ppm TCXO ** ** Ant: Inv-L 60m long, 6m high at feed end, 12m high at far end ** From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14336 invoked from network); 18 Oct 1999 16:32:59 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Oct 1999 16:32:59 +0100 Received: (qmail 1117 invoked from network); 18 Oct 1999 15:40:14 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Oct 1999 15:40:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dEFM-0003b6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:58:48 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hk.czcom.cz ([195.146.99.2] helo=serverhk.czcom.cz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dEFJ-0003b1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:58:46 +0100 Received: from lasvegas.GMCCZ ([195.146.99.22]) by serverhk.czcom.cz (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57399U3000L300S0V35) with ESMTP id cz for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:58:31 +0200 Received: by LASVEGAS with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) id ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:16:38 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: From: "Petr Maly" To: "'136'" Subject: LF: G3XDV seen in OK Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:16:37 +0200 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LowFers, some mentioned my seeing G3XDV on Visual-CW this weekend. One important note: this weekend I stayed home, so I did not use my usual rigging, but only poor "city" antenna. The signals from this antenna are more than 20 dB less, with a lot of man-made QRN, and I can usually see only the strongest stations (DK8KW, IK5ZPV, formerly DF2PY). It was kind of surprise, G3XDV was here about "MMM". 73! Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21249 invoked from network); 18 Oct 1999 18:53:16 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Oct 1999 18:53:16 +0100 Received: (qmail 968 invoked from network); 18 Oct 1999 17:53:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Oct 1999 17:53:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dGn2-00050l-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:41:44 +0100 Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dGn1-00050g-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:41:43 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.52) with SMTP id 013962 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:41:26 +0200 (MDT) Message-ID: <380B69B9.E32F0834@phonakcom.ch> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:40:57 +0200 From: "Toni Bdrtschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Bandplan References: <199910180332_MC2-8956-A9A0@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >>From HB9ASB/p, Saas Fee, JN36XC Hi friends, I'm just back from the Swiss Alpine LF meeting and we decided the following band plan for the rest of Europe (except for Switzerland since we are not in the EU): Due to low activity in this mode, CW will be banned bellow 136.000 (between mark and space of the Greek station) The upper part of the band is for SSB and SSTV only. Ok, let's be serious (I probably watched too much of Mr. Bean at TV last night): If we really need a band plan, Geri's proposal seems to me very reasonable. 73 de Toni From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29323 invoked from network); 18 Oct 1999 23:23:22 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Oct 1999 23:23:22 +0100 Received: (qmail 16529 invoked from network); 18 Oct 1999 22:30:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Oct 1999 22:30:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dKys-0007M4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:10:14 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail1-gui.server.ntli.net ([194.168.222.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dKys-0007Lz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:10:14 +0100 Received: from cableol.co.uk ([194.168.18.73]) by mail1-gui.server.ntli.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-33929U70000L2S50) with ESMTP id AAA8645 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:55:39 +0100 Message-ID: <380B95AE.19B19B7@cableol.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:48:30 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Bandplan References: <199910180332_MC2-8956-A9A0@compuserve.com> <380AE684.F38BECA@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: P. W. Schnoor wrote: > I don't think that we really need a bandplan. Without any operating guidelines, 136 kHz would soon become a very chaotic and frustrating band to operate. I believe that the adoption of a workable set of guidelines (a 'bandplan') is essential to minimising the risk of interference to other operators. In addition, future band-planning may need to give due consideration to the time of day; and day of the week - thus recognising the current practice of avoiding beacon transmissions on Saturdays and Sundays when band occupancy is high, and beaconing is inappropriate. Of course, the current draft bandplan(s) still need further input and discussion. So I think that Rik's observations are both important and timely. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9919 invoked from network); 19 Oct 1999 00:21:32 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 1999 00:21:32 +0100 Received: (qmail 25560 invoked from network); 18 Oct 1999 23:28:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Oct 1999 23:28:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dLuy-000823-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:10:16 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dLux-00081y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:10:15 +0100 Received: from [62.6.20.14] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11dLur-0006Mg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:10:09 +0100 Message-ID: <004201bf19bd$364b96a0$0e14063e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Bandplan....need, or desire ? Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:53:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi, not being an active transmitter I may claim to have no 'axes to grind'. I think that from some of the postings there is maybe some misunderstanding of what has been proposed. As I see it, there is no intention of imposing any particular frequency splits on others using the band. If you have 8 big stations within 10kms, you have a different viewpoint to another whose nearest neighbour is over 100kms away. We have a fair amount of activity in the UK and often there can be many traces on the screen. I think the intention of the Windsor workshop, was to enable operation and the working of weak signals with the minimum amount of mutual interference. QRS ( or visual CW) has migrated to the upper 200Hz and there doesn't seem to be much problem there. It may be that in some parts of Europe, local conditions preclude the use of this area, we dont know. I see no reason, nor heard comment, why hand speed (or normal speed) CW cannot, or should not, use anywhere in the rest of the band as is the case on the HF bands. There are those that would like to experiment with aerials and put up short period beacons, and those who would like to try other communication modes, PSK31, Hell. The intention of declaring a 'suggested' segment was steer these experiments to a section of the band where others would expect them. I do not think there was any intention to put inviolable walls round blocks of frequencies. The most enjoyable part of being involved in 136 is that it is full of patient well-mannered operators who all all enthusiasts. The 'guidelines' (bandplan sounds too official) discussed at Windsor were, to my mind, to help us avoid inadvertently upsetting other operators with our experiments. It is essential as more and more operators join our ranks that we have some agreed way of using the band, so that we may extract maximum enjoyment out of the use of our small allocation. If there is nobody using the SSTV section for last 10 mins or so then send a QRL and try CW there......we all listen before transmitting...... don't we? So let us not worry too much about exactly which 50Hz of the band is 'allocated' to what mode....get the PA fired up, the aerial peaked, and get the brass going up and down (or sideways ) .... and let's hear the signals on the band. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20925 invoked from network); 19 Oct 1999 09:13:58 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 1999 09:13:58 +0100 Received: (qmail 17176 invoked from network); 19 Oct 1999 08:14:38 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Oct 1999 08:14:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dU3S-0003qV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:51:34 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.39]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dU3R-0003qQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:51:33 +0100 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11dU3N-000HTe-0B for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:51:29 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:03:39 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: LF: Bandplan In-reply-to: <004201bf19bd$364b96a0$0e14063e@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Tom, G3OLB I agree with Alan's comments regarding the band-plan although I do think Toni was joking about an SSTV section Alan! Let's use the frequencies suggested by Geri and Rik as guidance only and not get too upset if anyone strays across the boundaries. Remember there are still a lot of rock-bound stations who may not have the ability to move frequency. QTH move next week-end followed shortly by antenna erection and back on 136 in a few weeks - I hope! 73 all. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11557 invoked from network); 19 Oct 1999 10:38:07 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 1999 10:38:07 +0100 Received: (qmail 27334 invoked from network); 19 Oct 1999 09:38:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Oct 1999 09:38:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dVWw-0004f5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:26:06 +0100 Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dVWt-0004ez-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:26:04 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:25:17 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de ([194.94.166.130]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA00188 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:25:56 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <380C385E.802C0971@nephro.uni-kiel.de> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:22:38 +0200 From: "P. W. Schnoor" Organization: Clinic of Nephrology, University of Kiel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586) X-Accept-Language: de, en To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Bandplan References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Colleagues, Steve Rawlings wrote: > Without any operating guidelines, 136 kHz would soon become a very > chaotic and frustrating band to operate. There's nothing what a "bandplan" could do against this. I do not fear chaos and frustration confrontated by strong LORAN-C, many local signal and noise sources, restricted to 20 Watts and 2.1 kHz of bandwidth. What I fear is that I could not make a sked with a Rotex owner for VSCW or non-telegraphic mode on 136.5 (of course as short as possible and not at weekends...). > I believe that the adoption of > a workable set of guidelines (a 'bandplan') is essential to minimising > the risk of interference to other operators. The main risk of interference is not the absence of a bandplan of course. How should such restrictions help (i.e.) against strong transmissions in combination with insufficient reception? > In addition, future band-planning may need to give due consideration to > the time of day; and day of the week - thus recognising the current > practice of avoiding beacon transmissions on Saturdays and Sundays when > band occupancy is high, and beaconing is inappropriate. > > Of course, the current draft bandplan(s) still need further input and > discussion. I hope not... I'm strictly against any further 'bandplaning'. It will generate more conflicts than fun! 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7127 invoked from network); 19 Oct 1999 14:25:56 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 1999 14:25:56 +0100 Received: (qmail 7163 invoked from network); 19 Oct 1999 13:26:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Oct 1999 13:26:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dYzH-0006e6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:07:35 +0100 Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dYzG-0006e1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:07:34 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #35) id 11dYzq-0005og-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:08:10 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:06:18 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:06:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Bandplanning X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: As I recall the discussion at Windsor, John, G3WKL, announced that IARU Region 1 had agreed not to have any bandplanning on the 136kHz band. However, there were some guidelines agreed which would help everyone know where to find what type of activity. I am sure there is no intention of banning anyone from any part of the band, but it has been very helpful, for instance, to know which part of the band to monitor for slow CW, and which for CQ calls in normal CW. I am sure that those using PSK31 will also appreciate knowing that they are likely to find such activity in the region of 137.2 to 137.6kHz. This agreement is intended only to help people, not to restrict them and so long as common sense is applied there should be no more conflicts than can be expected on such a narrow band. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19080 invoked from network); 19 Oct 1999 16:54:58 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 1999 16:54:58 +0100 Received: (qmail 30172 invoked from network); 19 Oct 1999 15:55:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Oct 1999 15:55:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dbM6-0007yI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:39:18 +0100 Received: from ah-img-rel-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.152] helo=hpamraaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dbM5-0007yA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:39:17 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamraaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-REL-1.2) id LAA06792 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:38:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave (host62-172-86-109.host.btclick.com [62.172.86.109]) by hpamraaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-REL-1.2) with SMTP id LAA06735 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:38:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001501bf1a47$d49380e0$6d56ac3e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Bandplans Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:36:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC I agree with the comments of Rik and others that we should not be too restrictive on bandplanning, although accept that some form of planning is a good idea. With the use of specialist digital modes like PSK31 still very low it seems inappropriate to allocate a firm (and relatively wide) segment for them. Let us keep the top 200Hz or so for slow CW, have a recommended centre of activity for other digital modes, and beacons, but use these sections as appropriate. Normal CW can use anywhere except the slow CW section. Certainly at peak operating times we need to use the band as efficiently as we can, and excessive restriction on CW space is unrealistic. In the UK there are sufficient 'big' signals that we need to spread out. It may be different in the fringes where all other signals are buried in the noise. 73s Dave G3YMC sergeantd@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15614 invoked from network); 19 Oct 1999 18:23:45 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 1999 18:23:45 +0100 Received: (qmail 11530 invoked from network); 19 Oct 1999 17:24:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Oct 1999 17:24:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dcex-0000DC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:02:51 +0100 Received: from smtp1.libero.it ([193.70.192.51]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dcew-0000Cv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:02:50 +0100 Received: from default (151.14.242.44) by smtp1.libero.it; 19 Oct 1999 19:02:10 +0200 Message-ID: <000201bf1a4b$c80b0ce0$2cf20e97@default> From: "Alessandro Kosoveu" To: "LISTA RSGB LF" Subject: LF: RTTY AT 135.8 kHz Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:56:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello, yesterday I have seen (spectrogram) a RTTY signal at 135.8 kHz ( visible at http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/7588/Lf/137b.html ) Ham signal ??? 73 Alessandro ================================================== ALESSANDRO KOSOVEU - SWL IV3-2161/TS - IW3SGT P.O. BOX 238 - 34100 TRIESTE (TS) - ITALY e-mail: alessandro.kosoveu@iol.it iw3sgt@iol.it home page: http://users.iol.it/alessandro.kosoveu/ http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/7588/ ================================================== From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28294 invoked from network); 19 Oct 1999 20:59:16 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 1999 20:59:16 +0100 Received: (qmail 6597 invoked from network); 19 Oct 1999 19:59:58 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Oct 1999 19:59:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11df4w-0001VV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 20:37:50 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from aurora.eexi.gr ([195.167.28.4] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11df4u-0001VQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 20:37:48 +0100 Received: from odin (ppp69.dialup.eexi.gr [195.167.28.133]) by aurora.eexi.gr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA02020 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:40:53 +0300 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19991019223605.006acc80@aurora.eexi.gr> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: sv1xv@aurora.eexi.gr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:36:05 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Costas Krallis" Subject: Re: LF: RTTY AT 135.8 kHz In-reply-to: <000201bf1a4b$c80b0ce0$2cf20e97@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 17:56 19/10/1999 +0200, you wrote: > yesterday I have seen (spectrogram) a RTTY signal > at 135.8 kHz... > Ham signal ??? No, it is the Greek Navy Fleet Broadcast station at Marathon. Costas +------------------------------------------------------------+ | Costas Krallis SV1XV * LOC KM18UA | | P.O.Box 3066 * FAX: +30-1-3811362 | | GR-10210 Athens * E-Mail: sv1xv@eexi.gr | | GREECE * | +------------------------------------------------------------+ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29513 invoked from network); 19 Oct 1999 23:00:50 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 1999 23:00:50 +0100 Received: (qmail 29884 invoked from network); 19 Oct 1999 22:08:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Oct 1999 22:08:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dh9t-0002gC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:51:05 +0100 Received: from cask.force9.net ([195.166.128.29]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dh9s-0002g7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:51:04 +0100 Received: (qmail 28526 invoked from network); 19 Oct 1999 21:51:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 1999 21:51:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 21794 invoked from network); 19 Oct 1999 21:51:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO main) (212.56.111.211) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Oct 1999 21:51:00 -0000 Message-ID: <000b01bf1a7c$9585bd20$0600a8c0@main> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: GM3YXM/P Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:54:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all, I will be in North-West Scotland (near Ullapool) from 24th to 30th October and will have the LF gear with me. Antennas will be limited to kites so operating times will be hard to plan because of the vagaries of the weather. If anyone is interested in a sked please e-mail me at dave@picks.f9.co.uk and we can set something up. I will have a mobile telephone with me so I will be able to let interested parties know when I will be on. This may be an oportunity to increase the inter-G distance record! 73, Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4653 invoked from network); 19 Oct 1999 23:24:00 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 1999 23:24:00 +0100 Received: (qmail 10468 invoked from network); 19 Oct 1999 22:24:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Oct 1999 22:24:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dhWA-0002u7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:14:06 +0100 Received: from praseodumium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dhW9-0002u2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:14:06 +0100 Received: from [195.99.49.219] (helo=default) by praseodumium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11dhW6-0001n2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:14:02 +0100 Message-ID: <003801bf1a7e$8ceff200$db3163c3@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Dave's GM 'expedition' Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:09:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Dave, if the weather is going to be like it is here today can I suggest you take a length of wire and a big crock-clip....there is bound to be a bit of barbed-wire somewhere near. Then if there are no qsos you can always have barbaqued sheep. Cheers de Alan G3NYK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15521 invoked from network); 20 Oct 1999 00:13:36 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 20 Oct 1999 00:13:36 +0100 Received: (qmail 17546 invoked from network); 19 Oct 1999 23:21:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Oct 1999 23:21:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11diHz-0003WR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:03:31 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11diHy-0003WJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:03:30 +0100 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id lKZE0edusm (4447) for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:02:29 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <0.3c83cfce.253e5285@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:02:29 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Bandplan To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 137 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 10/19/99 10:34:50 GMT Daylight Time, pwsch@nephro.uni-kiel.de writes: << > Of course, the current draft bandplan(s) still need further input and > discussion. I hope not... I'm strictly against any further 'bandplaning'. It will generate more conflicts than fun! >> I think that when you have 5 stations within 30km all running very high power, as I do, you may appreciate the need for a voluntary bandplan. Vy 73 David From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18193 invoked from network); 20 Oct 1999 07:54:49 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 20 Oct 1999 07:54:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 17179 invoked from network); 20 Oct 1999 06:55:34 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Oct 1999 06:55:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dpLf-0007KE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:35:47 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from pc1.telecom.cz ([194.228.2.40] helo=hermes.iol.cz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11dpLd-0007K5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:35:46 +0100 Received: from lasvegas.GMCCZ ([194.228.133.35]) by hermes.iol.cz (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 631-60961U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id cz for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:35:10 +0200 Received: by LASVEGAS with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) id ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:31:40 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: From: "Petr Maly" To: "'136'" Subject: LF: Article, QRV Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:31:38 +0200 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LowFers 1. I will write a larger article on 136 kHz to Slovak ham radio magazine (also widely read in Czech). It is the first time that something like this will be published in OK or OM. I dare ask everybody who has a short interesting info that could be published (personal records, interesting info about gear, short funny stories on 136 kHz) to send me few sentencies via e-mail. Please send it directly to p.maly@gmc.net, not via reflector. 2. I plan another expedition to the cottage for period 28th to 31th October. I would take Visual-CW equipment with me. This is preliminary info, all is weather permitting. 73! Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6891 invoked from network); 20 Oct 1999 20:29:20 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 20 Oct 1999 20:29:20 +0100 Received: (qmail 5448 invoked from network); 20 Oct 1999 19:36:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Oct 1999 19:36:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11e12w-0005Xh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:05:14 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11e12g-0005XZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:05:03 +0100 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id lENEUH9yD_ (4318) for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:04:10 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <0.f1993b97.253f6c2a@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:04:10 EDT Subject: LF: LF in Gibraltar? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 137 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello All. Next week I will be spending some time in Malaga and Gibraltar, including operating HF from a friendly hotel in Gibraltar during CQWW on the 30/31. As the CQWW log will end up on a laptop I'm planning to spend some time listening on 137kHz using Spectrogram. It looks like the path from ZB2 or EA7 to Italy is about 1500km and around 2000km to the UK / Western Europe. Would anyone like to arrange a short period of transmitting during my stay to give me something to listen for? It occurs to me that a great many of us are able to hear Reino over similar distances, and that recently there has been a great deal of debate over enhanced propagation at various times, as well as discussion about East / West and North South paths. The best days would be early Monday morning while I'm still in ZB2 or Tue /Wed 2nd -3rd, when I'll be back at Malaga. During my time in ZB2 I'll be meeting the local operators and the licensing authority. With luck, the next time I'm there, perhaps I'll be able to take the transmitter. 73 David G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5401 invoked from network); 21 Oct 1999 21:06:22 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Oct 1999 21:06:22 +0100 Received: (qmail 25271 invoked from network); 21 Oct 1999 20:13:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Oct 1999 20:13:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11eO2a-0001iG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:38:24 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as-img-6.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.151] helo=spamgaaf.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11eO2Z-0001iB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:38:23 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaaf.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id PAA05920 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:38:10 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:37:03 -0400 From: "Prof R. Jennison" Subject: LF: DAYTONG converters. To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199910211537_MC2-89EF-4462@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: About 2 weeks ago I mentioned an intense and troublesome carrier on about 36 kHz which produced a very strong second harmonic on the ham band at 72 kHz. From the strength of the second harmonic I deduced that it was local but I could not locate it. Since then I have done further tests and found that it is associated with the Datong converter. The receiver used with the converter was an ICOM 735. I then tried it with an ICOM 740 but there was no change. I then tried another Datong converter and the signal dissappeared from 72 kHz but appeared, as large as life, on 65kHz with a fundamental on 32.5 kHz. The only way that I can subdue it is to reduce the d.c. supply to the converter to 3 volts but it is still faintly present. The Datong converter is a bit of a "black box" with an integrated circuit at its heart. I have no deails of this integrated circuit and I am very puzzled by the phenomenon. The 4th harmonic is also quite detectable and with some converters it may well appear arround 136 kHz so it may be useful to us all to find the solution. Can anyone help? 73. Roger. G2AJV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 105 invoked from network); 21 Oct 1999 22:40:30 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Oct 1999 22:40:30 +0100 Received: (qmail 7451 invoked from network); 21 Oct 1999 21:48:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Oct 1999 21:48:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ePgA-0002c3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:23:22 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from m11.boston.juno.com ([205.231.100.194]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ePg9-0002bx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:23:21 +0100 Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EPGYHNZH; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:17:14 EDT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:12:15 -0400 Subject: Re: LF: DAYTONG converters. Message-ID: <19991021.171244.-73719.2.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-4,11-16,18-53 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Bob RIESE" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have been building a converter using a Double Balanced Mixer and a 4 Mhz clock osc as a LO. The advantages is its ability to handle HIGH levels of signals. I need to rebuild my RF amp and have ordered the parts to repair it. { oops } The mixer I am using is good from 2 Khz to 10 Mhz and I am using a 4 Mhz IF. It is by Witkons, Johnson Co. and was free. Mini Ckts. has a similar device for under 30 Dollars , the clock Osc is 2 dollars. If it works as well as it appears to would be a minimum parts High performance converter. Needs up to a +7 DBM for the LO and the Clock Osc is just at the edge for that level of injection. I have had no spurs with it ,so far but the RF stage went and I need to do more evaluation . Oh,there are lots of options for the RF stage. Bob K3DJC On Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:37:03 -0400 "Prof R. Jennison" writes: > About 2 weeks ago I mentioned an intense and troublesome >carrier on >about 36 kHz which produced a very strong second harmonic on the ham >bandat 72 kHz. From the strength of the second harmonic I deduced >that it was >local but I could not locate it. > > Since then I have done further tests and found that it is >associated with the Datong converter. The receiver used with the >converter >was an ICOM 735. I then tried it with an ICOM 740 but there was no >change. > I then tried another Datong converter and the signal dissappeared >from 72 >kHz but appeared, as large as life, on 65kHz with a fundamental on >32.5 >kHz. The only way that I can subdue it is to reduce the d.c. supply >to the >converter to 3 volts but it is still faintly present. > > The Datong converter is a bit of a "black box" with an >integratedcircuit at its heart. I have no deails of this integrated >circuit and I am >very puzzled by the phenomenon. > > The 4th harmonic is also quite detectable and with some >converters >it may well appear arround 136 kHz so it may be useful to us all to >find >the solution. > >Can anyone help? > >73. >Roger. G2AJV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29946 invoked from network); 22 Oct 1999 00:47:56 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Oct 1999 00:47:56 +0100 Received: (qmail 29487 invoked from network); 21 Oct 1999 23:48:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Oct 1999 23:48:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11eRmQ-0003ym-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 00:37:58 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11eRmP-0003yh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 00:37:57 +0100 Received: from [62.6.23.162] (helo=default) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11eRmB-0001o3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 00:37:43 +0100 Message-ID: <003501bf1c1c$8aba7240$39f0abc3@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: reference CFH on 137kHz Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 23:35:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all I have just had a bit of luck in that I asked John KD4IDY if there were any LWCA listeners close to CFH who could provide information on its activity. I guess this counts as a Jackpot! ......Reply copied below. ------------------------------------------ Hello Alan I just read your post to the LWCA's page regarding monitoring of the 137.0 kHz broadcast from CFH. I would be happy to assist you. I work at the Naval radio site where the transmitter is located. I am a maintenance technician there. Just let me know what you need. I will have to double check but for now I believe that 137 has been off the air (TX in standby) for a few weeks because it is not required by the Canadian Navy at this time. By the way, the 73.6 kHz transmitter is also located here in Newport Corner. It may be useful for monitoring openings on that band. 72, Jon - VE1FTL ---------------------------------------------------- I have asked whether TX power and aerial height are 'in the public domain'. The reply solves a puzzle I have had since the end of August when I last heard (saw on the waterfall) the signal. If I can get information about its activity I will begin to use the eclipse software to do regular nightly monitoring of the signal strength during the winter. 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 497 invoked from network); 22 Oct 1999 00:51:32 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Oct 1999 00:51:32 +0100 Received: (qmail 30490 invoked from network); 21 Oct 1999 23:52:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Oct 1999 23:52:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11eRmU-0003ys-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 00:38:02 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11eRmT-0003yg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 00:38:01 +0100 Received: from [62.6.23.162] (helo=default) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11eRmC-0001o3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 00:37:45 +0100 Message-ID: <003601bf1c1c$8b8b7de0$39f0abc3@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: re Datong converter Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 00:30:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Roger. That sounds like a nasty problem. I will try and throw some silly ideas up in the air, and let you shoot them down. 1. What kind of power supply do you have on the 735/740. Are these internal mains supplies and are the linear or switchers? Do you supply the Datong from these or an external battery. Low level switcher signals can sometimes be 'parametrically amplified' by transistors working in a totally different frequenct range. Have you tried feeding the converter from a battery, as even bench stabilised supplies do funny things particularly at low loading. I'm thinking of something modulating the crystal oscillator just a tiny bit. 35kHz is a fairly common typew of frequency for older switchers....but they are not stable and will drift around (probably killed that one myself) 2. Dave Tong still had an advert in the Jan 1999 Radcom, but a quick search does not suggest he has a web page, so maybe he can be reached at that phone/fax number still....I'm sure he would be interested. (0113 274 4822) 3. Is it 'rock' stable or does it move. If its rock stable it probably won't be a spurious oscillation somewhere. If it happens on 2 samples its a design effect I guess. I have known crystal oscillators 'hop' between a couple of close in spurious resonances at an audio rate. This is most likely to happen if the crystal is being strongly driven. Are there possibly decoupling components that cause a little 'modulation' on the oscillator as it is driven into limiting. If this effect is present it may be noticable on an spectrum analyser, at the crystal frequency. (as another thought, it occurs to me that the rock is probably a 28Mhz 3rd overtone.....if the fundamental mode was not fully supressed the 3rd harmonic of that would appear about 30 to 40kHz higher , and it would be quite stable) 4. It might be possible if it is an LF signal generated in the converter to see the signal at the fundamental on the output of the Datong even on a sensitive scope or a LW BC receiver. 5. I suppose it could be an intermod product of some kind...I dont think that sounds likely. On the whole I think I favour 3. ..... but that is probably only because it sounds a bit wierd. The ideas are probably no use at all, but they may start you looking in an area you perhaps hadn't considered. In brainstorms I find 'silly ideas' break 'tramline' thinking patterns. Hope you find it, strange signals are a pain when you are digging for weak stuff. 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14657 invoked from network); 22 Oct 1999 15:05:03 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Oct 1999 15:05:03 +0100 Received: (qmail 12521 invoked from network); 22 Oct 1999 14:05:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Oct 1999 14:05:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11eeqE-0003Ea-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:34:46 +0100 Received: from tantalum.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.80]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11eeqD-0003ES-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:34:46 +0100 Received: from [195.99.44.13] (helo=default) by tantalum.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11eeq5-0001Qy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:34:37 +0100 Message-ID: <000301bf1c91$73cfd820$0d2c63c3@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: G3LNP Clover(?) test Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:28:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A very strong carrier on 137.40kHz, was heard at about 1320z this afternoon which disolved into 4 pairs of data sidebands. I haven't seen this before but I assume this is Clover. From experience of other data modes I would suggest that with the right equipemnt it would be easily decoded here. A .GIF file from FFTDSP4 is available but I will not attach it to this message to save cluttering the reflector up. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26610 invoked from network); 22 Oct 1999 15:43:01 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Oct 1999 15:43:01 +0100 Received: (qmail 21274 invoked from network); 22 Oct 1999 14:43:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Oct 1999 14:43:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11efR4-0003Zg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:12:50 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ins23.netins.net ([167.142.225.23]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11efQw-0003ZY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:12:50 +0100 Received: from netins.net (desm-26-102.dialup.netins.net [167.142.22.231]) by ins23.netins.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA14222 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:12:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <381070D2.C8489E98@netins.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:12:34 -0500 From: "Tom Gruis, Ed.D." X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: G3LNP Clover(?) test References: <000301bf1c91$73cfd820$0d2c63c3@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello from Iowa in the U.S. A question for you: what is "Clover?" That is a new one to me. Thanks in advance and 73, Doc Gruis. _____________________________________________ Alan Melia wrote: > A very strong carrier on 137.40kHz, was heard at about 1320z this afternoon > which disolved into 4 pairs of data sidebands. I haven't seen this before > but I assume this is Clover. From experience of other data modes I would > suggest that with the right equipemnt it would be easily decoded here. A > .GIF file from FFTDSP4 is available but I will not attach it to this message > to save cluttering the reflector up. > Cheers de Alan G3NYK > Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7221 invoked from network); 23 Oct 1999 00:39:32 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Oct 1999 00:39:32 +0100 Received: (qmail 31738 invoked from network); 22 Oct 1999 23:40:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Oct 1999 23:40:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11eo5e-0000MG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 00:27:18 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11eo5c-0000MA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 00:27:16 +0100 Received: from [195.171.225.146] (helo=default) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11eo5R-0001TP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 00:27:05 +0100 Message-ID: <002b01bf1ce4$407390e0$92e1abc3@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Technical details of CFH (137kHz) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:58:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks to Jon VE1FTL I have the following interesting details on the system at CFH. Jon says it is a Canadian Naval site and gives the location as Newport Corner. The transmitter is aging valve unit, capable of 25KW, but more usually run at 8 to 9 kW. Modulation is FSK +/- 42.5Hz from the nominal carrier. This power corresponds to 30 to 40 Amps into the aerial, which is what I think would be called an 'umberella' . The main radiator is about 600 feet tall (Jon hadn't the exact dimensions to hand) It is capacitively loaded with a system consisting of the top 25% of each of the six guy spans with the ends connected together by a circle of wire, and then 6 more wires running from the top to the this circular wire. Sounds a bit like the big brother of the systems Dick was modelling a few weeks back. The station is off the air for maintenance and will not return until the Navy requests it. The transmitter is to be replaced by a more modern solid-state class C unit some time early next year. I guess there is enough detail there for some of you guys to estimate the ERP. Ok we dont know what the losses are but I reckon we could make a reasonable guess. The plus point on this is that the aerial is about what I had though it might be, but the power is a lot less (I thought it might be a 50kW unit) so the margin needed to hear a amateur signal might not be so great. Of course the 'answer's in the soil' !! Once again this is all thanks to Jon, ( who is a technician on the site ) who has promised to e-mail me when it is due to return to the air. 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13102 invoked from network); 23 Oct 1999 14:35:18 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Oct 1999 14:35:18 +0100 Received: (qmail 18442 invoked from network); 23 Oct 1999 13:36:20 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Oct 1999 13:36:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11f14b-0007kV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 14:19:05 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from premium.inrete.it ([194.116.9.4] helo=mailer.inrete.it ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11f14Z-0007kQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 14:19:04 +0100 Received: from cel266 (pool17-135.dialup.alpcom.it [194.116.17.135]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA31525 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 15:18:45 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991023151834.009877e0@mailer.inrete.it> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 15:18:34 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: Technical details of CFH (137kHz) In-reply-to: <002b01bf1ce4$407390e0$92e1abc3@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 21.58 22/10/99 +0100, Alan G3NYK wrote: >Thanks to Jon VE1FTL I have the following interesting details on the system >at CFH. Jon says it is a Canadian Naval site and gives the location as >Newport Corner. > > And thanks to you, Alan, for finding the informations. Please ask VE1FTL for the exact nominal QRG of the transmitter. At least, we have a positive ID for the signal ! (is the old tube TX available for sale? I'm thinkig to bid for it ... I may supply new tubes!) 73 - Marco IK1ODO spin@inrete.it Rivalta, ITALY JN35SA (N 45 01' 25.6", E 7 31' 09.4") From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10600 invoked from network); 24 Oct 1999 00:34:01 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Oct 1999 00:34:01 +0100 Received: (qmail 2550 invoked from network); 23 Oct 1999 23:35:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Oct 1999 23:35:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fAUE-0004iO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 00:22:10 +0100 Received: from mcclure.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.31]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fAUC-0004iJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 00:22:09 +0100 Received: from p155.lifford1.eircom.net ([159.134.235.155] helo=beachwood.tinet.ie) by mcclure.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 11fAU6-0008Qg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 00:22:02 +0100 Message-ID: <001001bf1dad$f9a2b180$9beb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: re:g6ro Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 23:30:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
From  Finbar  EI0CF.
I thought the group might be interested in my most recent LF qso on the 19th October at 1600 utc.
In February 1998 I received a phone call from  G6RO, Ron, telling me that he had just received my signal on the then new LF band, 136 khz. Mine was the first  signal he had heard on LF.  This inspired him to have a go himself and his experiments were part of Technical Topics in RadCom in June 1999. On the 19th I managed to hear him for the first time, this being his first
overseas qso on the band. We exchanged reports and I now have his qsl card.
I phoned  to thank him for the long awaited qso, and he was full of ideas for developing his system to maximise his signal and we discussed his use of a B28 receiver to pull in my signal and for his plans to re-align this old valve receiver and perk it up.
 
I don't think Ron would mind me telling you that he will be  87 year old  in February next, he has been licenced since 1932.
His enthusiasm and willingness to experiment is an insperation to us all. This is Amateur radio at its best. Well done Ron.
 
Meanwhile, back at Malin Head, using my new ATU, an ex NDB antenna tuning unit ( lots of lovely Litz wire) I failed to notice the variometer adjusting handle was not earthed during the initial tune up session and ended up with a puff of white smoke as I zapped my finger with thousands of volts........I did'nt even get as far as touching the metal control knob, it came to meet me.
I checked with a screwdriver, having first danced around the shack nursing  a burnt finger, and was able to draw a one inch, or should I say 25 mm  arc. Not nice. I don't hear the guys on 20m having these problems. Strange.
 
73's    Finbar   EI0CF
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11160 invoked from network); 24 Oct 1999 07:09:20 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Oct 1999 07:09:20 +0100 Received: (qmail 13411 invoked from network); 24 Oct 1999 06:17:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Oct 1999 06:17:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fGgC-00086X-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 06:58:56 +0100 Received: from ah-img-rel-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.152] helo=hpamraaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fGg9-00086S-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 06:58:53 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamraaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-REL-1.2) id BAA29217 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 01:58:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave (host212-140-120-12.host.btclick.com [212.140.120.12]) by hpamraaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-REL-1.2) with SMTP id BAA29168 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 01:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000601bf1de4$a7631220$0c788cd4@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002b01bf1ce4$407390e0$92e1abc3@default> Subject: LF: Re: Technical details of CFH (137kHz) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 19:44:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Many thanks for the information on CFH obtained from VE1FTL by Alan. Now at least we know a little more about it. As Jon says it seems off the air at the moment (it would now be quite audible when I listen before breakfast if it were on). I have done a quick calculation on a 200m loaded vertical using G4FGQ's program and this shows that such an antenna, assuming 50 ohms earth resistance, would have a radiation resistance of 13 ohms and an efficiency of 14.3%. A top loading umbrella is likely to improve this somewhat (and the earth resistance is likely to be quite a lot lower with a professional earth mat). Given the typical efficiency of antennas most of us can use, and the limitation to 1W erp I suspect this puts things into perspective! Received: (qmail 21159 invoked from network); 24 Oct 1999 14:06:10 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Oct 1999 14:06:10 +0100 Received: (qmail 8937 invoked from network); 24 Oct 1999 13:13:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Oct 1999 13:13:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fN5s-00031L-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 13:49:52 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-4.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.137] helo=spdmgaad.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fN5r-00031E-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 13:49:51 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id IAA14709 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 08:49:12 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 08:48:58 -0400 From: "Prof R. Jennison" Subject: LF: re Datong converters To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199910240849_MC2-8A35-49B2@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Many thanks to Alan, G3NYK, and Bob, K3DJC, for their comments on the problem with Datong converters. In particular Alan's suggestion number 3 hit the nail on the head. Further checks with an oscilloscope have shown the offending cw components at the output of the converter (and also at a lower level at the input). Furthermore, tuning the main receiver over the whole spectrum with the converter in the antenna socket has now shown that there is a harmonic set of these powerful cw components precisely in agreement with Alan's suggestion that it could be associated with the use of a third harmonic overtone crystal. The signals from one of my two converters are listed below (the other Datong converter has a similar set differing by a few kHz). All of the signals listed are at strength 40dB over S9 on the S meter, each is accompanied by a related set of somewhat weeker modulation harmonics to either side: 9.309 MHz and 9.345 MHz; 18.654 MHz and 18.690 MHz; 28.072 MHz and 28.360 MHz. It is the 28.072 harmonic that severely affects my reception on the 73 kHz band but my other converter has a higher harmonic very close to the 137 band, so it may be adviseable for all our colleagues using these converters to check where their harmonics lie. I have not yet found a solution to the problem but it may be possible to shift any offending harmonic sufficiently clear of the ham bands. I will copy this email on FAX to Dave Tong and I hope that we may then get an official solution. 73, Roger, G2AJV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11180 invoked from network); 24 Oct 1999 16:24:14 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Oct 1999 16:24:14 +0100 Received: (qmail 314 invoked from network); 24 Oct 1999 15:32:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Oct 1999 15:32:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fPCV-00048k-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:04:51 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as-img-4.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.147] helo=spamgaad.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fPCT-00048e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:04:49 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id LAA02860 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:04:28 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:03:08 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: GM/DL another first? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199910241103_MC2-8A3A-5E97@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello friends, after hearing Dave, MM0ALM calling for a few hours today I finally managed to contact him this afternoon. We exchanged 449 on both sides, however, his signal went up and down in QRN and QSB so I lost some of his transmission. I copied his QTH locator wrong (but got it from the internet) but was able to copy his name and my report. He obviously could hear me better than I could hear him. I have checked the RSGB page for "firsts" and saw, that there had not been any GM/DL contact on 136 kHz so far. True? Even if not, at least Dave was my furthest contact with 952 km! The band is still full of surprises. Also finally managed to work OZ1KMR as a new one in my log today. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17911 invoked from network); 24 Oct 1999 23:00:19 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Oct 1999 23:00:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 20426 invoked from network); 24 Oct 1999 22:08:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Oct 1999 22:08:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fVEz-0007Ps-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 22:31:49 +0100 Received: from thorium.uunet.be ([194.7.15.88]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fVEx-0007Pn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 22:31:48 +0100 Received: from rd (pool09-194-7-245-3.uunet.be [194.7.245.3]) by thorium.uunet.be (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA06421 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 23:31:42 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Robert_Decarni=E8re?= To: "LF" Subject: LF: Rprt Saturday 23rd Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 21:24:50 -0000 Message-ID: <01bf1e66$34620600$LocalHost@rd> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
From ON4DY (RX only)
Stations heard on Saturday morning Oct. 23rd 99.
 
.Using 2.1 meter diameter, 30 turns frame loop out in the backyard, lower rim 7 ft above ground.
 
06:18  & 06:27   PA0BWL   549  cq
06:30                   G3XDV      qrs cw cq , audible 569
06:58                   G4GVC      569 cq   
06:12 & 06:16     G3XDV      569  cq
07:26                    DJ5DI         569  cq  replied by PA0BWL   549   -    QSO (569/559)
07:46                    G4GVC -  G3YMC   just at the end of the qso.
07:50                    DJ1RL        549  cq
08:05                    PA2NJN      qrs cw cq, audible 569
08:12                    G3XTZ         qrs cw cq, audible 579
08:17                    G3XDV  and  DJ1RL  cq  on same frequency.    569/ 549
                               G3XDV detected something, QRZ ? but no reply.
09:05                     PA2NJN      qrs cw cq.
 
73, Bob on4dy JO10TX  ( 8 miles SW of Ghent.)
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26875 invoked from network); 24 Oct 1999 23:56:29 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Oct 1999 23:56:29 +0100 Received: (qmail 26901 invoked from network); 24 Oct 1999 23:04:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Oct 1999 23:04:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fWOF-00082s-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 23:45:27 +0100 Received: from praseodumium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fWOE-00082n-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 23:45:27 +0100 Received: from [212.140.96.68] (helo=default) by praseodumium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11fWO8-0002pn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 23:45:21 +0100 Message-ID: <001a01bf1e70$b6eb2f20$342e63c3@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: re Datong converter problems Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 23:22:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: It looks like Roger has found a design problem that could affect other converters. I have asked that he post any response from David Tong. I think the solution may be to reduce the crystal excitation, so the loop gain in the oscillator becomes degenerative at the fundamental frequency. As a quick check I find that the 3rd overtone is usually about 30 to 40 kHz lower than 3 times the fundamental. If a fundamental oscillator is running 'cleanly' you should not be able to hear anything on a receiver tuned to the fundamental and coupled loosly to the oscillator. I wonder it this will remove all those signals we just cant quite hear, but I always think and sending CQ at 25wpm!! Strange I can never quite copy a callsign. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10135 invoked from network); 25 Oct 1999 01:36:18 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 1999 01:36:18 +0100 Received: (qmail 5455 invoked from network); 25 Oct 1999 00:37:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Oct 1999 00:37:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fXyi-0000Yt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 01:27:12 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com ([198.81.17.10]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fXyh-0000XS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 01:27:11 +0100 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id lMXBa14299 (4569) for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 20:25:54 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <0.d7aacac3.2544fd92@aol.com> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 20:25:54 EDT Subject: LF: Re: Technical details of CFH (137kHz) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 137 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 10/24/99 7:06:29 GMT Daylight Time, sergeantd@compuserve.com writes: << I have done a quick calculation on a 200m loaded vertical using G4FGQ's program and this shows that such an antenna, assuming 50 ohms earth resistance, would have a radiation resistance of 13 ohms and an efficiency of 14.3%. A top loading umbrella is likely to improve this somewhat (and the earth resistance is likely to be quite a lot lower with a professional earth mat). Given the typical efficiency of antennas most of us can use, and the limitation to 1W erp I suspect this puts things into perspective! >> This is very interesting Dave. In an early slow CW article by Peter Martinez, I remember that he managed to receive signals from G4JNT on 73k which were predicted as 20dB below noise level in normal bandwidths (LF Source book) Some rambling...... If the ERP from the VE on 137 is 20% of 10kW, that equals about 2kW ERP. I can't remember what the best signal to noise is on the signal. Would 10dB be about right? Therefore, for a 3dB received S:N+N, the ERP could be reduced by 7dB = 400 W If it's 10dB above noise in a 250Hz bandwidth, then by using an fft program to reduce the bandwidth by a factor of 400, (which is not unrealistic) would allow us to receive an amateur 1W signal over the same path with a 3dB S:N+N So 250Hz /400 = 0.625mHz equivalent bandwidth. I think that for normal CW it's going to be almost impossible, but for QRS techniques, it looks like a good challenge, which with some appropriate planning, may eventually succeed. The problem for the very slow data rates used by Andy and Peter would be changes in propagation during the transmission. How long is the signal audible at reasonable signal levels each night? and, I wonder if we'll mange to cross the Atlantic before the 2m Op's? 73 David From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17791 invoked from network); 25 Oct 1999 07:59:28 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 1999 07:59:28 +0100 Received: (qmail 24280 invoked from network); 25 Oct 1999 07:00:37 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Oct 1999 07:00:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fdpr-0003hQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 07:42:27 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226] helo=gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fdpq-0003hL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 07:42:27 +0100 Received: by gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA01707; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:44:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from somewhere by smtpxd X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Message-ID: From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" To: "'rsgb_lf_group'" Subject: LF: Weekend-Report Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:42:20 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hallo Group, Heared on Sunday 24.10 06:38 HB9ASB 559 06:38 OE6ODL ? 439 06:39 DF6NM 539 07:28 DJ2EY 539 got 559 Worked DF6NM on Saturday but very hard to copy. On Sunday his signal was much stronger. 73 de DL1SAN Wolf http://www.qsl.net/dl1san/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25990 invoked from network); 25 Oct 1999 08:46:40 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 1999 08:46:40 +0100 Received: (qmail 32051 invoked from network); 25 Oct 1999 07:47:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Oct 1999 07:47:49 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11feiG-000499-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:38:40 +0100 Received: from gate2.oss.akzonobel.nl ([192.87.3.6] helo=gate2.akzo.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11feiF-000494-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:38:39 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from fwmaster@localhost) by gate2.akzo.nl (8.9.1a/8.6.12) id JAA22395 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:38:34 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by igate2.oss.akzonobel.nl via smap (V1.3) id sma020591; Mon, 25 Oct 99 09:36:56 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from triton.oss.akzonobel.nl by vesta.oss.akzonobel.nl (PMDF V5.1-7 #22904) with ESMTP id <01JHJP7PVV0095PBPA@vesta.oss.akzonobel.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:36:50 +0100 Received: by triton.oss.akzonobel.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:36:36 +0200 Content-return: allowed Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:36:34 +0200 From: "Laken, W.H.P.A. van der \(Wil\)" Subject: LF: Weekend report To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <81B84E03FF6FD21197060000F87B1287067CD5@capella2.oss.akzonobel.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Although I had several other things to do this weekend there was some time left for LF. Saturday: Worked: DJ5DI s:569 r:559 Heard: G3XDV 559 Sunday: Worked: DK9DX s:549 r:429 Heard: G3BDQ 549 DK8KW 559 PA0SE 599 (tks qsp Dick) DJ1RL 549 PA0VBL 569 (testing) DL3FDO 539 G3XDV O (qrss) PA2NJN O (qrss) audible 549 DJ5AO O (qrss) DJ6FU 549 G4GVC 539 (qso with G6RO - not audible) G3KEV 569 MM0ALM 349 (later in qso with DK8KW) Regards, Wil (PA0BWL) e-mail: w.laken@diosynth.nl From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29934 invoked from network); 25 Oct 1999 09:07:10 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 1999 09:07:10 +0100 Received: (qmail 283 invoked from network); 25 Oct 1999 08:15:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Oct 1999 08:15:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fexN-0004J8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:54:17 +0100 Received: from apollo.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.125]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fexM-0004J3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:54:17 +0100 Received: from pc171.geog.le.ac.uk ([143.210.25.171] helo=kate) by apollo.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.02 #2) id 11fexJ-0002ia-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:54:13 +0100 From: "kate moore" To: "lfgroup" Subject: LF: weekend report Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:41:34 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Stations worked here during the weekend on 136kHz using normal speed CW: Friday 22/10 GW4ALG (07.24:UT gave him 589, he gave me 589), G6NB (15.37: 589, 599). Saturday 23/10 EI0CF (07.25: 579, 569), G3YMC (07.38: 569, 599), MM0ALM (15.00: 589, 589), G0VXG (18.11: 589, 59+9). Sunday 24/10 PA0SE (09.00: 579, 579), DJ5DI (09.38: 559, 559), G6RO (09.50: 57/89, 599), GW4ALG (10.41: 589, 589), OH1TN (17.06: 569, 569). European stations heard but not worked: SM6PXJ (549), OZ1KMR (579), OZ5N (569), DK8KW (559), PA0BWL (559), HB9ASB (569). The weather caused more problems than usual with lots of heavy rain and wind, so for some of the time, especially on Sunday, I didn't transmit as the antenna was difficult to keep in tune. Static levels most nights are still high - does anyone else think this is worse than last year? I was interested to hear a contact between Reino and Christer before it got dark on Saturday evening. Both were weaker than I usually hear them after dark, but just as readable due to the lower static levels. I tried to call Reino afterwards, but my synth chose that moment to play up, and by the time I had fixed it Dave MM0ALM was working him, then the rain started and detuned my antenna so I gave up! The two OZ stations were very strong signals on Sunday morning - after they had worked each other I was pleased to hear Geri work Henrik, but amused with the report of 339 he got when he was easily 559 here! I gather Dave came on as GM3YXM/P on Sunday afternoon from NW Scotland, but we were out so I missed him this time round. Having heard Reino the previous evening, I called CQ at 17.00UT on Sunday, and sure enough, Reino replied to my second call! Signals were excellent both ways with fairly low static levels, so we had a very good contact. Later, around 20.00UT, Toni HB9ASB was also a strong signal on 136.5kHz calling CQ. Regards John G4GVC near Leicester, IO92JP ** TX: Synth + 400W RF from modified 'G3YXM' Mosfet PA ** ** RX: TS-850S with 3 x CW filters and 0.5ppm TCXO ** ** Ant: Inv-L 60m long, 6m high at feed end, 12m high at far end ** From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16405 invoked from network); 25 Oct 1999 10:09:04 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 1999 10:09:04 +0100 Received: (qmail 7988 invoked from network); 25 Oct 1999 09:16:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Oct 1999 09:16:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fftg-0004qS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:54:32 +0100 Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fftf-0004qN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:54:31 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #35) id 11ffuE-0001kE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:55:07 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:39:10 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:39:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Weekend report 23/24 Oct X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Saturday 23 October Got up at 0530 UTC and put out several slow and fast CW calls. Didn't hear anyone for two hours! Band noisy with man-made noise and static (when will the QRN season end this year?). The noise was lowest at 0830UTC. Heard EI0CF (549); G4GVC (599). Saw on Spectrogram QRSs signals from PA2NJN ('O' and audible at S2); G3XTZ ('O' and S9+10). QSO with MM0ALM (gave 569, got best ever report from Dave at 579). Sunday 24 October Got up late! Still noisy on the band. Heard G6RO (449); PA0SE (579); DK8KW (339); EI0CF (559). Saw on Spectrogram QRSs signals from PA2NJN ('O' and S3); DJ5AO ('M'). Had a random QSO with IK5ZPV using QRSs. Very weak signals and took quite a while to get him to copy my callsign. Finally exchanged reports and rogers. The high wind and rain was causing my antenna current (normally 1.7A) to vary between 1.3 and 1.5A. This is my best DX at 1199km, a new country (number 10) and the 48th station worked on 136kHz. My web site shows a Spectrogram plot of part of the QSO, which includes PA2NJN and DJ5AO working within 20Hz of my QSO with no mutual QRM. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3878 invoked from network); 25 Oct 1999 11:13:57 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 1999 11:13:57 +0100 Received: (qmail 17091 invoked from network); 25 Oct 1999 10:21:49 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Oct 1999 10:21:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fgui-0005R0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:59:40 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from chebucto.ns.ca ([192.75.95.75] helo=halifax.chebucto.ns.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fgug-0005Qv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:59:38 +0100 Received: from localhost (user: 've1ftl', uid#32509) by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 06:59:11 -0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 06:59:11 -0300 (ADT) From: "Jean-Marc Huneault" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Technical details of CFH (137kHz) In-reply-to: <000601bf1de4$a7631220$0c788cd4@dave> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Sat, 23 Oct 1999, Dave Sergeant wrote: > Jon says the TX uses FSK. I remember noting earlier this year that at one > time it was transmitting FAX (clearly identifiable as such to anyone who > has heard FAX). Perhaps Jon has some information on this. As a matter of fact, I do ;-) CFH also has a LF weather broadcast on 122.5 kHz which consists of RTTY bulletins and weather maps in FAX format. If this particular transmitter or its associated aerial were down for maintenance, it is likely that the weather broadcast was "patched-over" to the 137 kHz transmitter to maintain continuity. A rare occurence, but it has been done in the past. 73, Jon - VE1FTL ve1ftl@chebucto.ns.ca From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 635 invoked from network); 26 Oct 1999 00:15:37 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 1999 00:15:37 +0100 Received: (qmail 31803 invoked from network); 25 Oct 1999 23:16:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Oct 1999 23:16:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fstZ-0003j8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:47:17 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111] helo=gadolinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fstY-0003j3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:47:16 +0100 Received: from [195.99.59.201] (helo=default) by gadolinium with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11fstT-0007OT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:47:11 +0100 Message-ID: <000301bf1f3a$23a14900$c93b63c3@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for Oct 23/24 at GB7DXM Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:40:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: My log for this weekend is all QRS as my local noise came on quite early this weekend. Unfortunately I am getting so used to it that I fell for some self-inflicted noise too which was from an Off-Air Standard Frequency unit. Stations heard on Saturday G3XDV, G3XTZ, PA2NJN. On Sunday I heard Mike's call on QRS at 0900z and saw a weak trace under the noise. (Just normal aerial noise this time the PSU was off) Then Mike calling IK5ZPV but to no avail. My loop was not orientated to get the best signal from Italy. Also heard several CQs from PA2NJN at good strength. I heard Peter G3LDO calling CQ on normal speed morse this evening (Monday), and despite his strength here he was only just readable above the SMPSU noise. The local Cluster has been working this week but access has been a bit difficult Some spots below 137.0 DJ2EY 24-Oct-1999 0712Z cq 136.8 HB9ASB 24-Oct-1999 0711Z cq 136.5 ANNOUNCEMENT23-Oct-1999 1213Z KHz DL3FDO on 136.5 QRV,pse 136.8 OE5PGL 17-Oct-1999 0825Z 429 cq 136.7 DL3FDO 17-Oct-1999 0819Z 549 137.1 DJ1ZB 17-Oct-1999 0810Z 529 137.3 DJ1RL 17-Oct-1999 0808Z cq 539 in jn48wl I was unable to download anything at 1800 Cheers de Alan G3NYK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10940 invoked from network); 26 Oct 1999 06:39:17 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 1999 06:39:17 +0100 Received: (qmail 20246 invoked from network); 26 Oct 1999 05:47:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Oct 1999 05:47:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fzBA-0007N8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 06:29:52 +0100 Received: from as-img-rel-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.142] helo=spamraaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11fzB9-0007N3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 06:29:51 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) id BAA15343 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 01:28:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave (host212-140-76-211.host.btclick.com [212.140.76.211]) by spamraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) with SMTP id BAA15325 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 01:28:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000301bf1f72$bf132920$d34c8cd4@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <0.d7aacac3.2544fd92@aol.com> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Technical details of CFH (137kHz) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:45:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC David G0MRF wrote: Received: (qmail 11405 invoked from network); 26 Oct 1999 09:45:20 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO cask.force9.net) (195.166.128.29) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 1999 09:45:20 +0100 Received: (qmail 28261 invoked from network); 26 Oct 1999 08:45:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 1999 08:45:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11g1eD-0000Fy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:08:01 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11g1eC-0000Dr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:08:00 +0100 Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id EAA31759; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 04:15:27 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA03677; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 04:06:53 -0400 Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by umrsvr.hsd.utc.com; (8.9.0/) id EAA12500; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 04:04:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:59:08 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Soegiono, Gamal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Technical details of CFH (137kHz) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:59:06 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Many thanks to Alan Melia G3NYK and John VE1FTL for the valuable details on canadian station CFH. Antenna systems designed for the frequency range around 150 kHz, composed of vertical mast 200-360m in height, capacitive toploading, radial system 60 to 120 radials (each having a length which is equal to the mast height) reach a typical over-all system efficiency of no less than 80% and no more than 95%, 90% being the most common design target value (for no compromise implementation). example-1 (Donebach LW BC station on 153 kHz): double 360m mast + cap-top transmitter power = 500 kW (27.99 dBkW) EMRP = 794.3 kW (29 dBkW) antenna efficiency = 88% antenna directivity (**) = 1.805 (2.565 dB) antenna gain (**) = 1.589 (2.01 dB) (**) = relative to lossless monopole over perfect ground plane In compromise implementations and for lower operating frequencies, system efficiency degrade rapidly. example-2 (Mainflingen standard time and frequency station on 77.5 kHz): single 200m mast + cap-top transmitter power = 50 kW (17.99 dBkW) EMRP = 30 kW (14.77 dBkW) antenna efficiency = 60% antenna directivity (**) = 1 (0 dB) antenna gain (**) = 0.6 (-2.218 dB) Best 73 de Gamal Gamal Soegiono (SWL) 50N01 / 08E27 / JO 40 fa soegiono@nm.hsd.utc.com or soegiono@nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23807 invoked from network); 26 Oct 1999 17:15:26 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 1999 17:15:26 +0100 Received: (qmail 22725 invoked from network); 26 Oct 1999 14:54:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Oct 1999 14:54:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11g7XV-0003ZX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:25:29 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from alpha.dii.unisi.it ([193.205.7.2] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11g7XJ-0003ZS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:25:17 +0100 Received: from mailsrv.dii.unisi.it (pcfasec.dii.unisi.it [193.205.7.103]) by alpha.dii.unisi.it (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA23287 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:25:00 +0200 Message-ID: <3815B9C8.A928E0EF@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:25:13 +0200 From: "Valerio Gabbani" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: (no subject) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: wich From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11601 invoked from network); 26 Oct 1999 23:23:20 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 1999 23:23:20 +0100 Received: (qmail 32096 invoked from network); 26 Oct 1999 22:20:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Oct 1999 22:20:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gEho-0007md-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:04:36 +0100 Received: from praseodumium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gEhn-0007mW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:04:35 +0100 Received: from [195.99.43.68] (helo=default) by praseodumium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11gEhj-000570-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:04:32 +0100 Message-ID: <006f01bf1ffd$55a92a80$4ff9abc3@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Musing on the data on CFH Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:51:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave and Dave have been kicking around some interesting thoughts about the significance of hearing CFH to hearing WA2XTZ. My own first thoughts put about 1.5kW into the radiation resistance, the problem is that the ground losses will be quite low. Gamal quotes about 90%efficiency (ouch!) for commercial aerials which would mean more like 8kW, say 40dB more than we have available. On Dave G3YMC's point about aerial 'gain'..... As an quick estimate I thought that a 200foot mast might generate a signal 3dB more efficiently than a 100foot mast.....I have no idea whether that is sensible or not, but in other areas of radio, if you double the size of the aerial you get 3dB more. (I dont have eznec or whatever!). That would mean about a 7 or 8dB disadvantage for a 100foot 'T'. That makes a grand total of about 48dB, or a signal -18dB relative to the noise in whatever andwidth( Dave G3YMC quoting 30dB above the noise for CFH). I must admit that that figure seems possible. WA2XTZ is about 10% further away, but again due to the angle of the North American coast, the path is predominantly over water. If I work the figures corrrectly John Lamont's propagation chart for a water path of 3000kms suggests that the CFH signal should be between 90 and 900uV/m, so WA2XTZ should be somewhere in the 100nV/m to 1uV/m range. Maybe some of the previous loggings of CFH could be worked back to test that figure. Note that 2000kms over land (I to OH) has already been achieved the graph predicts (assuming 1Watt ERP TX) a rx field strengh 30nV/m for that path. I am making the assumption, because I can't find any counter-evidence in the data I have available, that the graph in Lamont's paper ,derived from CCIR recommendation 368, is independent of frequency (!) though it specifies 73kHz. I would say that with a signal approaching 1watt ERP it looks a definite possibility. I suspect my postage-stamp calculations make heavy use of the mathematical operator 'O' .......that golden multiplier called 'optimism'......but that is what it is all about! All we need now is to get Andre' burying a few tons of copper! 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7658 invoked from network); 27 Oct 1999 04:47:36 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 1999 04:47:36 +0100 Received: (qmail 16086 invoked from network); 27 Oct 1999 03:44:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Oct 1999 03:44:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gJrs-0002M7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:35:20 +0100 Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gJro-0002J6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:35:17 +0100 Received: from locxvcym ([210.55.82.68]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991027032509.UOIK45175.mta2-rme@locxvcym> for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:25:09 +1300 From: "ComPact" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Musing on the data on CFH Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:23:14 +1300 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <19991027032509.UOIK45175.mta2-rme@locxvcym> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all It's been interesting following the discussion on the possibility of crossing the Atlantic with amateur LF signals. Although the frequency is much higher it may be relevant to mention that several stations in ZL are getting consistent reception of the Galveston Texas NDB on 206 kHz. This is reported as a 2kW beacon which presumably means there wouldn't be more than 500 watts or so in each sideband. Distance is about 12500 km and signals peak just before Galveston sunrise. I don't have any data on GLS's antenna but if it's anything like most NDB's would not be hugely efficient. Mike ZL4OL From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3762 invoked from network); 27 Oct 1999 07:38:06 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 1999 07:38:06 +0100 Received: (qmail 6077 invoked from network); 27 Oct 1999 06:46:11 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Oct 1999 06:46:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gMN0-0003fS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 07:15:38 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.53] helo=pefletti.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gMMz-0003fM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 07:15:37 +0100 Received: from default (MLXVIII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.6.168]) by pefletti.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA09078 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:15:32 +0300 (EET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991027091531.00800510@laatikko.saunalahti.fi> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: oh2lx@laatikko.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:15:31 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: EMRP estimations In-reply-to: <006f01bf1ffd$55a92a80$4ff9abc3@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi folks, This is just a comment. I recently wrote a short story for the Finnish SRAL magazine about Field strength measurements - which we have been doing for over 40 yrs. We have been flight measuring most Finnish NDB/Locator beacons and all Finnish and Swedish DGPS beacons. Most powerful I've ever seen in N. Europe is Tallinn "LK" 386 kHz radiating abt 30 W. Of 105 Finnish NDB /Locators most (Tx=500W) radiate between 8-12 W, some even 15 W, using a 14 m high top loaded monopole. I made some EMRP calculations for OH1TN who is located 152 km from my place. Can hear him daily as ground wave. For 136 kHz sigma I use 0.5 mS/m, for 300 kHz 1 mS/m. Reino's EMRP can be anything between 10 mW and 50 mW. Hope some day we can make some real field measurements. I have at home an old Anritsu Field strength meter but its sensitivity / selectivity is not good enough. Can only estimate that his real Fs is less than 10 dBuV/m. --------------------------------------------------------- GROUND WAVE FIELD-STRENGHT, MILLINGTON METHOD OH1TN -> OH2LX, Ground distance = 152 km FIELD-STRENGTH DB ABOVE 1 MICROVOLT/METER EPS =10.0 SIGMA = .5 mS/m FREQ = 136. kHz POWER = .05 W DIST. (KM) F-S (DBU) 1.0 66.3 2.0 60.2 3.0 56.5 4.0 53.9 5.0 51.9 6.0 50.2 7.0 48.8 8.0 47.5 9.0 46.4 10.0 45.4 30.0 33.9 50.0 27.2 70.0 22.6 90.0 18.8 110.0 15.7 130.0 12.8 150.0 10.2 170.0 7.8 190.0 5.6 210.0 3.5 END OF CIRCUIT ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27539 invoked from network); 27 Oct 1999 09:30:42 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 1999 09:30:42 +0100 Received: (qmail 30358 invoked from network); 27 Oct 1999 08:38:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Oct 1999 08:38:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gOGE-0004jV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:16:46 +0100 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gOGC-0004jQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:16:45 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 11gOHA-0006BD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:17:44 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:14:35 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:14:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: GW/P X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I am going to Pembrokeshire, south-west Wales, a few days later than planned owing to work pressures. I expect to be there from Thursday evening (28th) until Wednesday morning (3rd). If all goes well, I hope to be active on Sunday morning, possibly with a kite vertical. As usual, most activity will be normal CW but I may put out a QRSs test transmission. I had expected to use 73kHz but it is not worth the considerable extra effort because the noise from Rugby makes it unlikely that I will be heard in G. If the kite works out well, I may do some 73kHz at Christmas. Locator will be IO71NP. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 106 invoked from network); 27 Oct 1999 09:40:58 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 1999 09:40:58 +0100 Received: (qmail 21698 invoked from network); 27 Oct 1999 08:38:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Oct 1999 08:38:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gOG5-0004jO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:16:37 +0100 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gOG4-0004jJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:16:37 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 11gOH1-0006Af-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:17:35 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:01:12 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:01:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Good condx X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At long last, on Tuesday 26 October we had an evening with low QRN. There was a lot of activity (GW, GM, EI, G, PA), the best of which was IK5ZPV at a consistent 559. Unfortunately Valerio was listening mainly on 3.5MHz for replies so no QSOs took place. Lets hope this sets the scene for some good DX this winter. By the way, encouraged by the reference to a transmission from CFH on 122.5kHz, I listened on that frequency but heard only some strong EU stations and a huge wideband signal from an SMPU. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6664 invoked from network); 27 Oct 1999 12:09:04 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 1999 12:09:04 +0100 Received: (qmail 4036 invoked from network); 27 Oct 1999 11:17:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Oct 1999 11:17:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gQlJ-0006A0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:57:01 +0100 Received: from as-img-rel-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.142] helo=spamraaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gQlH-00069u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:57:00 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) id GAA21999 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 06:56:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave (host62-6-113-174.host.btclick.com [62.6.113.174]) by spamraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) with SMTP id GAA21857 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 06:56:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001101bf2069$c0bc8b20$ae71063e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: re:CFH Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:40:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC A couple of corrections to Alan's recent mail We are told the height of the mast at CFH is 600 feet (not 200 ft). That is a bit a different. I do not have an accurate locator for CFH but it is listed as Halifax Nova Scotia, which puts it in FN84EP. Distance from here is 4593km WA2XTF/6 is in Vienna, Virginia, in FM18IV if my sums are correct. That puts it at 5881 km That puts it 28% further away, not 10%. >From my experience of top band quite a few years ago the path to VE1 is very much easier than that to W4. Although top band stations with good installations can work W4 relatively well it is by no means as predictable as VE1 and does not follow a consistent pattern. Putting these things into the perpspective of the typical amateur efficiency of less that 1%, to work even VE1 is going to be no mean feat. 73s Dave G3YMC sergeantd@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18839 invoked from network); 27 Oct 1999 14:41:59 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 1999 14:41:59 +0100 Received: (qmail 3493 invoked from network); 27 Oct 1999 13:39:22 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Oct 1999 13:39:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gTB1-0007Wa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:31:43 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from chebucto.ns.ca ([192.75.95.75] helo=halifax.chebucto.ns.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gTB0-0007WT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:31:43 +0100 Received: from localhost (user: 've1ftl', uid#32509) by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:31:26 -0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:31:25 -0300 (ADT) From: "Jean-Marc Huneault" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: Re: LF: re:CFH In-reply-to: <001101bf2069$c0bc8b20$ae71063e@dave> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Wed, 27 Oct 1999, Dave Sergeant wrote: > I do not have an accurate locator for CFH but it is listed as Halifax > Nova Scotia, which puts it in FN84EP. Distance from here is 4593km Halifax is the administrative centre and naval port. The actual transmitter site is in the village of Newport Corner, about 40 km WNW of Halifax, at 44 deg 58 min North, 63 deg 59 min West. Best regards, Jon - VE1FTL From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23257 invoked from network); 27 Oct 1999 14:55:58 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 1999 14:55:58 +0100 Received: (qmail 5929 invoked from network); 27 Oct 1999 13:53:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Oct 1999 13:53:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gTHN-0007Xw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:38:17 +0100 Received: from mailout00.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.148]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gTHJ-0007Xm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:38:14 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fwd01.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.161]) by mailout00.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 11gTHD-0005vb-00; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:38:07 +0200 Received: (087321565-0001(btxid)@[62.158.194.133]) by fwd01.btx.dtag.de id ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:37:45 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:37:45 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <19991027032509.UOIK45175.mta2-rme@locxvcym> Subject: LF: Re: Musing on the data on CFH, and some seagoing observations X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-dialin.net From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all, the remarks of Mike, ZL4OL, reminds me of my two years as a wireless operator on a german freighter in the years 1956-58: At that time, a lot of vessels crossing the pacific from New Zealand and Australia to the U.S. and Canada had been equipped with medium wave equipment only (410 - 512 kHz). Shortwave was not needed, because several thousend sea miles could be covered at night dependably employing the medium wave transmitter, with a power of a few hundred watts, and typical T or inverted L wire antennas. Even engaged operators who had HF available liked to do all communication on medium waves at night. When crossing the atlantic westbound, from Europe, the coastal radio transmitters of Chatham Radio, WCC (30-40 kW), and Amaganset Radio, WSL (15 kW), both in the New York area, could be heard on 500 kHz from about 30 degrees west, but ships still had to employ 8 MHz HF to work these stations. Therefore it appears that LF/MF conditions over the atlantic are not so favourable. Furthermore, operators at the german coastal radio station Norddeich Radio, DAN, located in the outmost northwestern corner of germany, north of Emden, could hear WCC and WSL sometimes, but not regularly, during very cold winter nights. Perhaps it would be interesting to ask former operators of U.K. coastal radio stations, especially Landsend Radio, GLD, and former colleagues of EI0CF at Malin Head Radio, EJM, and of Valentia Radio, EJK, if they were able to contribute to these observations. HW? 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB ComPact schrieb: > Hello all > It's been interesting following the discussion on the possibility of > crossing the Atlantic with amateur LF signals. Although the frequency is > much higher it may be relevant to mention that several stations in ZL are > getting consistent reception of the Galveston Texas NDB on 206 kHz. This is > reported as a 2kW beacon which presumably means there wouldn't be more than > 500 watts or so in each sideband. Distance is about 12500 km and signals > peak just before Galveston sunrise. I don't have any data on GLS's antenna > but if it's anything like most NDB's would not be hugely efficient. > Mike ZL4OL > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14538 invoked from network); 27 Oct 1999 17:48:32 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 1999 17:48:32 +0100 Received: (qmail 2774 invoked from network); 27 Oct 1999 16:45:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Oct 1999 16:45:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gVw0-0000gH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:28:24 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.41] helo=pyyhe.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gVvz-0000gC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:28:23 +0100 Received: from default (MKCCXXIX.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.166.29]) by pyyhe.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA06472 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:37:20 +0300 (EET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991027192821.00802ac0@laatikko.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@laatikko.saunalahti.fi X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:28:21 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: Fs and EMRP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040903060109060905080307" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040903060109060905080307 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To (temporarily) conclude discussion of "The art of measuring Fs and EMRP of an LF/MF transmitter" from my part, I (exceptionally) ATTACH short text in hope that file is small enough and everybody can open and read ASCII text. From text it should be clear why this subject is up-to-date for me personally. Yleisradio (Digita Oy) has decided to terminate all continuous LF/MF field strength measurements. Having been involved in these myself for 40 years, my duty in the future will be to document what I can. Some field measurements, no doubt, will be done also. Everyone interested to see pictures (eg of mentioned Tallinn "super beacon") or anything else, let me know. 73 de Vaino, OH2LX --------------040903060109060905080307 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; name="YLE_Fs.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="YLE_Fs.txt" VEhFIEFSVCBPRiBNRUFTVVJJTkcgRklFTEQgU1RSRU5HVEggT0YgQU4gTEYvTUYgU1RBVElP Tg0KDQpZTEUgYWN0aXZpdHkgc3RhcnRlZCBpbiAxOTQ4IGF0IEhlbHNpbmtpLUxhYWphc2Fs byBhbmQNCmNvbnRpbnVvdXMgTEYvTUYgbWVhc3VyZW1lbnRzIGJ5IFlsZWlzcmFkaW8gT3kg YW5kIG5ld2x5DQplc3RhYmxpc2hlZCBEaWdpdGEgd2lsbCBiZSB0ZXJtaW5hdGVkIGFzIG9m IDMxc3QgRGVjIDE5OTkuDQoNCkZpcnN0IExGL01GIEZzIG1lYXN1cmVtZW50cyBhbmQgY2Fs Y3VsYXRpb25zIG9mIGVmZmVjdGl2ZQ0KZWxlY3RyaWNhbCBncm91bmQgY29uZHVjdGl2aXR5 IHdlcmUgbWFkZSBkdXJpbmcgeWVhcnMgMTkzMC0NCjE5NDAgYnkgcHJvZiBWLiBZbG9zdGFs byBvZiBIZWxzaW5raSBUZWNobmljYWwgVW5pdmVyc2l0eS4NClRoZSByZXN1bHRzIGhhdmUg YmVlbiBjb25maXJtZWQgaW4gMTk1MC0xOTk5IG1lYXN1cmVtZW50cy4NCg0KVGhlIEZzIG1l YXN1cmVtZW50IHN5c3RlbSBvcGVyYXRlZCBieSBZTEUgYXQgSm9rZWxhLCBGaW5sYW5kOg0K DQotIFBDICgrIG1hbikgY29udHJvbGxlZCAyNGggRnMgbWVhc3VyZW1lbnRzIHdpdGggZXF1 aXBtZW50DQogIGluIHVzZSBhZnRlciAxOTg4IGluIGVsZWN0cmljYWxseSBjb250cm9sbGVk IGVudmlyb25tZW50Og0KDQogIC0gUiZTIEVTSDMgc2Nhbm5pbmcgMzAgTEYvTUYvSEYgZnJl cXVlbmNpZXMsIG9mIHdoaWNoDQogICAgMjUgc2VydmVkIGFsc28gYXMgYSBncm91bmQgd2F2 ZSByZXNlYXJjaCBjaGVjaywgd2l0aA0KICAgIGZyZXF1ZW5jaWVzIGJldHdlZW4gODUuMjcg KGxvY2FsIERlY2NhIE1hc3RlcikgdG8NCiAgICA1NTgga0h6IGFuZCBncm91bmQgZGlzdGFu Y2llcyBiZXR3ZWVuIDEyLTU4MCBraWxvbWV0cmVzLg0KICAgIDIyMiBtZWFzdXJlbWVudHMg cGVyIGhvdXIgcGVyIGZyZXF1ZW5jeSAod2hpY2ggaW4gYWJvdXQNCiAgICAxMSB5ZWFycyBt ZWFucyAyMSBtaWxsaW9uIGRhdGEgcG9pbnRzIHBlciBmcmVxdWVuY3kpLg0KDQogICAgVGhl IHZhbGlkaXR5IG9mIEVTSDMgbWVhc3VyZW1lbnRzIGNvdWxkIGJlIGNoZWNrZWQgd2l0aA0K ICAgIFImUyBIRkgxICgyeCkgYW5kIEVTSDIgd2l0aCBsb29wIGFuZCByb2QgYW50ZW5uYXMu DQoNCiAgICBEdXJpbmcgZmllbGQgbWVhc3VyZW1lbnRzIGJ5IGNhciBhbmQvb3IgYWlycGxh bmUsIGFsbA0KICAgIHBvc3NpYmxlIG1lYW5zIHdlcmUgdXNlZCB0byBjcm9zcyBjaGVjayBl dmVyeXRoaW5nLg0KICAgIEZsaWdodCBtZWFzdXJlbWVudHMgY29uc2lzdCBvZiBzb21lIDUw MCBmbGlnaHQgaG91cnMgb2YNCiAgICByYWRpYWwgYXR0ZW51YXRpb24gbWVhc3VyZW1lbnRz LCBhbmQgb2NjYXNpb25hbCB2ZXJ0aWNhbA0KICAgIHBhdHRlcm4gbWVhc3VyZW1lbnRzIGVn IG9mIExhaHRpIDI1NC8yNTIgJiBUdXJrdSA5NjMga0h6Lg0KICAgIEZpZWxkIG1lYXN1cmVt ZW50cyBpbmNsdWRlIGVnIHNvbWUgNjAgRmlubmlzaCBhaXJmaWVsZHMuDQoNClRIRSBBUlQg T0YgRVNUSU1BVElORyBFTVJQIEZJR1VSRVMgRk9SIEFOIExGL01GIFNUQVRJT04NCg0KVGhl c2UgY2FsY3VsYXRpb25zIGFyZSBjdXJyZW50bHkgYmFzZWQgb24gZmxpZ2h0IGF0dGVudWF0 aW9uDQptZWFzdXJlbWVudHMgb2YgYSBudW1iZXIgb2Ygc3RhdGlvbnMuIEJlc3QgYXZhaWxh YmxlIHByb2dyYW1zDQpkZXZlbG9wZWQgYnkgRUJVLCBDQ0lSLCBPSVJUIGFuZCBvdGhlciBT dHVkeSBHcm91cHMgaGF2ZSBiZWVuDQphcHBsaWVkIGluIHRoZSBjYWxjdWxhdGlvbnMgb2Yg RU1SUCBmcm9tIGZsaWdodCAoYW5kIG90aGVyKQ0KbWVhc3VyZW1lbnRzIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBm b3IgdGhlc2UgcHVycG9zZXMuIFNvbWUgaW5zdGl0dXRlcw0KY3VycmVudGx5IGhhdmUgdGhl aXIgb3duIGdyb3VuZCBjb25kdWN0aXZpdHkgZGF0YSBiYW5rcy4NCg0KV2hpbGUgRU1SUCBj YWxjdWxhdGlvbnMgYmFzZWQgb24gcmVjZW50IGZsaWdodCBtZWFzdXJlbWVudHMNCmFyZSBy YXRoZXIgc3RyYWlnaHRmb3J3YXJkIHRoZXkgYXBwZWFyIHRvIGJlIGhhbXBlcmVkIHdpdGgN CnRpbWUgYnkgY2hhbmdlcyBib3RoIGluIHJhZGlhdGlvbiBlZmZpY2llbmN5IG9mIGEgdHJh bnNtaXR0aW5nDQpzdGF0aW9uIGFuZCB2YXJpYXRpb24gb2Ygc28gY2FsbGVkICJlZmZlY3Rp dmUgZWxlY3RyaWNhbCBwYXRoDQpjb25kdWN0aXZpdHkiIChhIGNvbmR1Y3Rpdml0eSBhY3R1 YWxseSAic2VlbiIgYnkgcmFkaW8gd2F2ZSkuDQpUaGlzIGlzIHdoYXQgaXMgc2hvcnRseSBj YWxsZWQgImVmZmVjdGl2ZSBncm91bmQgY29uZHVjdGl2aXR5Ii4NCg0KQWxsIGFjY3VyYXRl bHkgZW5vdWdoIGNhbGlicmF0ZWQgbG9uZyB0aW1lIGdyb3VuZCB3YXZlIG1lYXN1ci0NCmVt ZW50cyBzaG93biBjbGVhciB2YXJpYXRpb24gYXMgYSBmdW5jdGlvbiBvZiBhaXIgdGVtcGVy YXR1cmUuDQpJbiBTb3V0aGVybiBGaW5sYW5kLCBXaW50ZXIgdGltZSBHVyB2YWx1ZXMgYXJl IHJvdWdobHkgMy03IGRCDQpoaWdoZXIgY29tcGFyZWQgd2l0aCB0aGUgU3VtbWVyIHRpbWUg dmFsdWVzLiBUaGlzIHBoZW5vbWVuYSB3YXMNCmRvY3VtZW50ZWQgYnkgYSBudW1iZXIgb2Yg YXV0aG9ycyBhbHJlYWR5IGluIDE5NDAncyBhbmQgMTk1MCdzLg0KVGhpcyBsZWFkcyB0byBh IGRpZmZpY3VsdHkgdG8gZGVjaWRlIHdoaWNoIEVNUlAgdG8gYWR2ZXJ0aXNlLg0KDQpUaGUg Q2l2aWwgQXZpYXRpb24gQXV0aG9yaXR5IG9mIEZpbmxhbmQgY3VycmVudGx5IHVzZXMgTmF1 dGVsDQp0cmFuc21pdHRlcnMgZm9yIE5EQiBhbmQgTG9jYXRvciBiZWFjb25zLCB0aGUgdHgg cG93ZXIgdmFyeWluZw0KYmV0d2VlbiAxMDAgYW5kIDUwMCBXLiBNb3N0IEZpbm5pc2ggYW5k IFN3ZWRpc2ggREdQUyBiZWFjb25zDQphbHNvIHVzZSAxMDAgVyBvciBpbiBzb21lIGNhc2Vz IDUwIFcgb3IgMjAwIFcgdHJhbnNtaXR0ZXJzLg0KTW9zdCBuZXcgZ2VuZXJhdGlvbiBiZWFj b24gdHJhbnNtaXR0ZXJzIGFyZSBpbiBpdHNlbGYgcmF0aGVyDQpzdGFibGUuIENBQSBiZWFj b24gYW50ZW5uYXMgKGg9MTQgb3IgMTEgbSkgZG9uJ3QgbG9vayBvciBiZWhhdmUNCnZlcnkg bmljZWx5IGNvbXBhcmVkIHdpdGggb2xkIGdlbmVyYXRpb24sIGhpZ2hlciBzdGVlbCB0dWJl DQphbnRlbm5hcywgd2l0aCBzb21lIGluc3RhbGxhdGlvbnMgbm93IGxvb2tpbmcgbGVzcyBw cm9mZXNzaW9uYWwuDQpPbmUgb3V0IG9mIGZpdmUgTG9jIGJlYWNvbnMgYXQgSGVsc2lua2kt VmFudGFhIGhhcyBiZWVuIGFsbW9zdA0KZXhjZXNzaXZlbHkgc2Vuc2l0aXZlIHRvIGFsbCBj aGFuZ2VzIGluIGxvY2FsIHdlYXRoZXIuIFNvbWV0aW1lcywNCnRvIGNvbXBlbnNhdGUsIHRo ZSBvdXRwdXQgdGFwIG9mIEFUVSBtdXN0IGJlIG1hbnVhbGx5IHJlYWRqdXN0ZWQuDQoNCkkg ZGlzY292ZXJlZCBhIHJlcG9ydCBieSBGT0EgKFN3ZWRpc2ggTWlsaXRhcnkgUmVzZWFyY2gp IGRhdGVkDQppbiBNYXkgMTk3MC4gVGhlIGVmZmVjdGl2ZSBncm91bmQgY29uZHVjdGl2aXR5 IG9mIFN3ZWRpc2ggc29pbA0Kd2FzIGZsaWdodCBtZWFzdXJlZCBpbiAxOTY3LTE5NjggdXNp bmcgZXhpc3RpbmcgRGVjY2Egc3RhdGlvbnMuDQpUaGV5IGNvbmNsdWRlZCB0aGF0ICJzaWdt YSIgdmFsdWVzIGZvciB0eXBpY2FsIFN3ZWRpc2ggc29pbCBhcmU6DQpGb3IgNzAga0h6ID0g MC4yIHRvIDAuMyBtUy9tIGFuZCBmb3IgMTI4IGtIeiA9IDAuMyB0byAwLjUgbVMvbS4NCg0K Tk9URTogVGhlIGF2ZXJhZ2Ugc29pbCBpbiBGaW5sYW5kIGlzIG5vdCBtdWNoIGRpZmZlcmVu dCBmcm9tIA0KICAgICAgdGhhdCBpbiBTd2VkZW4uIFJlYWxseSBsYXJnZSBzY2FsZSBmbGln aHQgbWVhc3VyZW1lbnRzIGluDQogICAgICAxOTc0LTE5NzcgaW4gRmlubGFuZCB3ZXJlIG1h ZGUgdXNpbmcgZXhpc3RpbmcgTkRCL0xvY2F0b3INCiAgICAgIGJlYWNvbnMgYW5kIGV4aXN0 aW5nIGFuZCB0ZW1wb3JhcnkgTEYvTUYgQkMtc3RhdGlvbnMuDQogICAgICBBbGwgZWZmZWN0 aXZlIGdyb3VuZCBjb25kdWN0aXZpdHkgdmFsdWVzIHdlcmUgcmVkdWN0ZWQgdG8NCiAgICAg IDcwMCBrSHosIHRvIGJlIHByZXNlbnRlZCBhdCBFdXJvcGVhbiBMRi9NRiBCQyBDb25mZXJl bmNlLg0KDQpWLksuTGVodG9yYW50YSwgT0gyTFgsIEpva2VsYSAyNy4xMC4xOTk5DQoNCg0K DQoNCg0KDQotIA0KICAgIA0KICAgIA0KICAgIA0KICAgIA== --------------040903060109060905080307 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; name="ATT06020.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="ATT06020.txt" DQotLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tDQpWLksuTGVodG9yYW50YSwgT0gyTFgsIFBPQm94IDUwLCBGSU4tMDU0MDEgSm9r ZWxhLCBGaW5sYW5kDQotLS0tLS0gVGVsOiArMzU4LTktNDE3Mzk2NSAtLS0tIEZheDogKzM1 OC05LTQxNzM5NjEgLS0tLS0tDQpFLW1haWw6IHZhaXNraUBkbGMuZmkgLSBhbGlhczogb2gy bHhAZGxjLmZpICYgb2gybHhAc3JhbC5maQ== --------------040903060109060905080307-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6623 invoked from network); 27 Oct 1999 19:02:13 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 1999 19:02:13 +0100 Received: (qmail 14470 invoked from network); 27 Oct 1999 17:59:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Oct 1999 17:59:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gXA9-0001Q9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:47:05 +0100 Received: from man-043.dialup.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.41.53] helo=localhost.localdomain ident=john) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gXA7-0001Q2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:47:03 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from john@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA01473 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:44:11 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: john set sender to word.factory@zetnet.co.uk using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-reply-to: Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:44:11 -0000 () From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Re: Musing on the data on CFH, and some seagoing observa Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In 1961 a retired RO told me of the night when his ship was about to enter port in Alaska. He called the Alaskan coast station on 500 but was answered by a station in New Zealand. 73 de G3PAI On 27-Oct-99 Hans-Joachim Brandt wrote: > Dear all, > > the remarks of Mike, ZL4OL, reminds me of my two years as a wireless > operator on > a german freighter in the years 1956-58: > > At that time, a lot of vessels crossing the pacific from New Zealand and > Australia to the U.S. and Canada had been equipped with medium wave > equipment > only (410 - 512 kHz). Shortwave was not needed, because several thousend sea > miles could be covered at night dependably employing the medium wave > transmitter, with a power of a few hundred watts, and typical T or inverted > L > wire antennas. Even engaged operators who had HF available liked to do all > communication on medium waves at night. > > When crossing the atlantic westbound, from Europe, the coastal radio > transmitters of Chatham Radio, WCC (30-40 kW), and Amaganset Radio, WSL (15 > kW), > both in the New York area, could be heard on 500 kHz from about 30 degrees > west, > but ships still had to employ 8 MHz HF to work these stations. Therefore it > appears that LF/MF conditions over the atlantic are not so favourable. > > Furthermore, operators at the german coastal radio station Norddeich Radio, > DAN, > located in the outmost northwestern corner of germany, north of Emden, could > hear WCC and WSL sometimes, but not regularly, during very cold winter > nights. > Perhaps it would be interesting to ask former operators of U.K. coastal > radio > stations, especially Landsend Radio, GLD, and former colleagues of EI0CF at > Malin Head Radio, EJM, and of Valentia Radio, EJK, if they were able to > contribute to these observations. > > HW? > > 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB > > ComPact schrieb: >> Hello all >> It's been interesting following the discussion on the possibility of >> crossing the Atlantic with amateur LF signals. Although the frequency is >> much higher it may be relevant to mention that several stations in ZL are >> getting consistent reception of the Galveston Texas NDB on 206 kHz. This is >> reported as a 2kW beacon which presumably means there wouldn't be more than >> 500 watts or so in each sideband. Distance is about 12500 km and signals >> peak just before Galveston sunrise. I don't have any data on GLS's antenna >> but if it's anything like most NDB's would not be hugely efficient. >> Mike ZL4OL >> > > ---------------------------------- E-Mail: John Rabson Date: 27-Oct-99 Time: 17:38:48 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2530 invoked from network); 27 Oct 1999 22:20:59 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 1999 22:20:59 +0100 Received: (qmail 14136 invoked from network); 27 Oct 1999 21:18:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Oct 1999 21:18:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gaKE-0003Bk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:09:42 +0100 Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gaKD-0003Bc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:09:41 +0100 Received: from isis (userl941.uk.uudial.com [193.149.76.246]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21185 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:03:14 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991027213809.00965ee0@mailhost.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mailhost.pncl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:06:20 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Mime-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit The frequency is getting away a bit from 136 but twice in the last week, around 0400-0600Z, I decoded the Cape Race, NFLD, differential GPS transmitter on 315 kHz (3802 kms). I leave the DGPS receiver running on the channel overnight and record data every 30 seconds so I don't have to stay up all night. Another DGPS station, in Iceland (Reykjanes, 292.5 kHz, 1916 kms) comes in all night from 2200-0800. These are only 10W erp stations using MSK 100 Bd. Last year, in December, I several times received and decoded successfully the US Coastguard NAVTEX station at Miami, Florida (7110 kms). It operates on 518 kHz so perhaps it doesn't count, but it's only a 50w station. Incidentally, the Decca Green stations of the Bothnian Gulf chains (roughly 1600 kms) are trackable on my Decca receiver here most of the day as well as all night. They're on 127.5 kHz or so and are about 40w erp. It would be excellent if we could be advised of when CFH will be on the air and even better if it could radiate standard DGPS data so I could use my automatic monitor!! Walter G3JKV. Walter Blanchard Phone and Fax 01306 884359 Dorking, Surrey RH4 2AN From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13349 invoked from network); 28 Oct 1999 01:22:34 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Oct 1999 01:22:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 17814 invoked from network); 28 Oct 1999 00:30:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Oct 1999 00:30:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gdBE-0004pn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 01:12:36 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gdBB-0004ph-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 01:12:33 +0100 Received: from [195.99.49.169] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11gdB7-0007Ia-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 01:12:29 +0100 Message-ID: <015a01bf20d8$754bf440$af12063e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: re Dave's corrections to my 'Musings' on CFH Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:46:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Dave, thanks for the check...the trouble with postage stamp calculations is you can't read your own writing afterwards! Not when your eyesight is like mine. I did get the distances screwed up. I thought the nearest path to the 'New World' was under 2000 miles (i.e just over 3000km) but that is from Mallin Head to Gander Newfoundland rather than Nova Scotia. Distinctly duff geography on my part, and its another 800kms to Halifax. My locator program gives my location to CFH as 4700kms. I must admit I began to have quarms about the distance calculation, and dug out my old great circle map to check it. Healthy skepticism for other people's software! The interesting thing is its makes an almost insignificant difference to the path attenuation. Richard Lamont's Graph shows the water path attenuation rising at 20dB per decade( of distance) so the attenuation for 4500kms (rather than the 3000 I used ) is a mere 3dB more. This would seem to confirmed by some comments from the Antipodes reporting very much greater distances heard across water. The 200 foot quote was not a misread of Jon's data, I was using it as a stepping stone to 600ft. I thought doubling a mast height (WA2XTZ has 100 foot masts I believe) might give 3dB 'gain' so multiply by 6 is around 8dB. I expected someone to leap on my logic and beat me up here.... it was a kind of a 'kite flying' exercise to see if anyone could come up with a better figure. There's no doubt it going to be a tough one, Dave....like Top Band in the early days with 10w DC....but that proved 'do-able' in the end. The one interesting effect, suggested by someones anecdotes of old ROs, was that the path may not be reciprocal. Whoops, I've done it again, and flooded the reflector with messages....well hope you found them fun I certainly did. 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8440 invoked from network); 28 Oct 1999 12:09:57 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Oct 1999 12:09:57 +0100 Received: (qmail 12963 invoked from network); 28 Oct 1999 11:07:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Oct 1999 11:07:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gn2v-0001fv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:44:41 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.31] (helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gn2t-0001fp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:44:39 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.150.195]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA2CBB for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:44:26 +0200 Message-ID: <005801bf2131$5c95d2a0$c396b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Calculating transmitter power from field strength measurements Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:43:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All from PA0SE, It is interesting that the Millington method used by that Vaino to calculate Reino's power seems to produce more realistic results than the CCIR Recommendation 386-7. Why is that so? Is the Millington method newer than the CCIR method? What is it like? Perhaps Vaino can tell us a bit more about it. As I see it the CCIR curves and presumably the Millington method produce a relation between the power fed to the antenna and the field strength of the ground wave (surface wave). Using an aircraft obviously measures the field strength of the sky wave. This makes sense as it is the skywave that is used by an aircraft approaching a locator (part of an Instrument Landing System). But the CCIR curves and presumably the Millington method cannot be used for this situation I think. How the power radiated by a locator can be found from measurements using an aircraft is not clear to me. >From Vaino's figures for locators it seems that the power in the sky wave is very much higher than in the surface wave. The 500 W TX power and a top loaded antenna of 14 m as quoted by Vaino for Finnish NDB/locator beacons is not unlike the situation at several amateur stations in our LF-band. But they certainly do not radiate 8 - 15 W in their ground wave! The somewhat higher frequency of the beacons, resulting in a higher radiation resistance, cannot explain the difference. 73, Dick, PA0SE Vaino wrote: >Hi folks, > >This is just a comment. I recently wrote a short story >for the Finnish SRAL magazine about Field strength >measurements - which we have been doing for over 40 yrs. > >We have been flight measuring most Finnish NDB/Locator >beacons and all Finnish and Swedish DGPS beacons. >Most powerful I've ever seen in N. Europe is Tallinn >"LK" 386 kHz radiating abt 30 W. Of 105 Finnish NDB >/Locators most (Tx=500W) radiate between 8-12 W, >some even 15 W, using a 14 m high top loaded monopole. > >I made some EMRP calculations for OH1TN who is located >152 km from my place. Can hear him daily as ground wave. >For 136 kHz sigma I use 0.5 mS/m, for 300 kHz 1 mS/m. >Reino's EMRP can be anything between 10 mW and 50 mW. >Hope some day we can make some real field measurements. >I have at home an old Anritsu Field strength meter but >its sensitivity / selectivity is not good enough. >Can only estimate that his real Fs is less than 10 dBuV/m. >--------------------------------------------------------- > GROUND WAVE FIELD-STRENGHT, MILLINGTON METHOD > > OH1TN -> OH2LX, Ground distance = 152 km > > FIELD-STRENGTH DB ABOVE 1 MICROVOLT/METER > > EPS =10.0 SIGMA = .5 mS/m FREQ = 136. kHz POWER = .05 W > > DIST. (KM) F-S (DBU) > > 1.0 66.3 > 2.0 60.2 > 3.0 56.5 > 4.0 53.9 > 5.0 51.9 > 6.0 50.2 > 7.0 48.8 > 8.0 47.5 > 9.0 46.4 > 10.0 45.4 > 30.0 33.9 > 50.0 27.2 > 70.0 22.6 > 90.0 18.8 > 110.0 15.7 > 130.0 12.8 > 150.0 10.2 > 170.0 7.8 > 190.0 5.6 > 210.0 3.5 >END OF CIRCUIT >------------------------------------------------------------ > >---------------------------------------------------------- >V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland >------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ >E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2832 invoked from network); 28 Oct 1999 14:52:10 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Oct 1999 14:52:10 +0100 Received: (qmail 4703 invoked from network); 28 Oct 1999 13:49:38 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Oct 1999 13:49:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gpdy-00037G-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:31:06 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds9.sci.fi ([195.74.0.54]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gpdw-00037B-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:31:05 +0100 Received: from default (MKDCCI.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.167.201]) by ds9.sci.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA29000 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:31:01 +0300 (EET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991028163101.007d6c10@laatikko.saunalahti.fi> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: vaiski1@laatikko.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:31:01 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: Re: LF: Calculating transmitter power from field strength measurements In-reply-to: <005801bf2131$5c95d2a0$c396b38f@w8k3f0> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello, I'll comment some of Dick's comments right away. I was not at all talking about skywave (which we prefer to call ionospheric wave). Ground wave is an observable and measurable resultant of direct wave, space wave, surface wave, subsurface wave etc. It is the component we measure at the ground level and some height above ground level. It is GW anyway and we have a number of programmes to calculate this practicable component, as we have to live with it at ground level and up to some 1 km or more. We have made numerous flight measurements to testify the effects of so called height gain up to some 10000 feet, the height effect is negligible. Curves in CCIR Recs are just curves resembling some of the programs I mentioned. Some of them are more useful for fligh measurements and some for other purposes. Sky wave or ionosperic wave or component is in its own category making living during darkness awful, as old generation pilots and navigators can tell. Dick, I'll snail mail you one document describing DGPS beacon flight measurements in 1995 and 1996. In the reference list are the best documents available, Nominal flight height in beacon measurements is 100 m (AGL) at least outside towns etc. 73 de Vaino At 12:43 28.10.1999 +0200, you wrote: >To All from PA0SE, > >It is interesting that the Millington method used by that Vaino to calculate >Reino's power seems to produce more realistic results than the CCIR >Recommendation 386-7. Why is that so? >Is the Millington method newer than the CCIR method? What is it like? >Perhaps Vaino can tell us a bit more about it. > >As I see it the CCIR curves and presumably the Millington method produce a >relation between the power fed to the antenna and the field strength of the >ground wave (surface wave). > >Using an aircraft obviously measures the field strength of the sky wave. >This makes sense as it is the skywave that is used by an aircraft >approaching a locator (part of an Instrument Landing System). But the CCIR >curves and presumably the Millington method cannot be used for this >situation I think. How the power radiated by a locator can be found from >measurements using an aircraft is not clear to me. > > >>From Vaino's figures for locators it seems that the power in the sky wave >is very much higher than in the surface wave. >The 500 W TX power and a top loaded antenna of 14 m as quoted by Vaino for >Finnish NDB/locator beacons is not unlike the situation at several amateur >stations in our LF-band. But they certainly do not radiate 8 - 15 W in their >ground wave! The somewhat higher frequency of the beacons, resulting in a >higher radiation resistance, cannot explain the difference. > >73, Dick, PA0SE > > >Vaino wrote: > >>Hi folks, >> >>This is just a comment. I recently wrote a short story >>for the Finnish SRAL magazine about Field strength >>measurements - which we have been doing for over 40 yrs. >> >>We have been flight measuring most Finnish NDB/Locator >>beacons and all Finnish and Swedish DGPS beacons. >>Most powerful I've ever seen in N. Europe is Tallinn >>"LK" 386 kHz radiating abt 30 W. Of 105 Finnish NDB >>/Locators most (Tx=500W) radiate between 8-12 W, >>some even 15 W, using a 14 m high top loaded monopole. >> >>I made some EMRP calculations for OH1TN who is located >>152 km from my place. Can hear him daily as ground wave. >>For 136 kHz sigma I use 0.5 mS/m, for 300 kHz 1 mS/m. >>Reino's EMRP can be anything between 10 mW and 50 mW. >>Hope some day we can make some real field measurements. >>I have at home an old Anritsu Field strength meter but >>its sensitivity / selectivity is not good enough. >>Can only estimate that his real Fs is less than 10 dBuV/m. >>--------------------------------------------------------- >> GROUND WAVE FIELD-STRENGHT, MILLINGTON METHOD >> >> OH1TN -> OH2LX, Ground distance = 152 km >> >> FIELD-STRENGTH DB ABOVE 1 MICROVOLT/METER >> >> EPS =10.0 SIGMA = .5 mS/m FREQ = 136. kHz POWER = .05 W >> >> DIST. (KM) F-S (DBU) >> >> 1.0 66.3 >> 2.0 60.2 >> 3.0 56.5 >> 4.0 53.9 >> 5.0 51.9 >> 6.0 50.2 >> 7.0 48.8 >> 8.0 47.5 >> 9.0 46.4 >> 10.0 45.4 >> 30.0 33.9 >> 50.0 27.2 >> 70.0 22.6 >> 90.0 18.8 >> 110.0 15.7 >> 130.0 12.8 >> 150.0 10.2 >> 170.0 7.8 >> 190.0 5.6 >> 210.0 3.5 >>END OF CIRCUIT >>------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>---------------------------------------------------------- >>V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland >>------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ >>E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi >> >> > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26952 invoked from network); 28 Oct 1999 17:45:48 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Oct 1999 17:45:48 +0100 Received: (qmail 635 invoked from network); 28 Oct 1999 16:43:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Oct 1999 16:43:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gsVw-0004ij-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:35:00 +0100 Received: from mb09.swip.net ([193.12.122.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gsVu-0004ia-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:34:58 +0100 Received: from win95 (d212-151-41-143.swipnet.se [212.151.41.143]) by mb09.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA08946 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:34:48 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000301bf2162$b7ac57a0$8f2997d4@win95.swipnet.se> From: "Christer Andersson" To: "RSGB LF group" Subject: LF: Unknown station Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:36:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello, I'm looking for information on the RTTY station on 141.43/141.36 kHz. QTH? /Christer, sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6078 invoked from network); 28 Oct 1999 19:49:26 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Oct 1999 19:49:26 +0100 Received: (qmail 22608 invoked from network); 28 Oct 1999 18:46:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Oct 1999 18:46:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11guQf-0005km-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:37:41 +0100 Received: from smtp.mail.big-orange.net ([143.179.236.32] helo=Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11guQd-0005kg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:37:40 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.151.116]) by Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA6C1B; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:36:45 +0200 Message-ID: <001001bf2173$58d87680$7497b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Cc: "Ger van Went, PA0GER" , "Gerrit Jan Huijsman, PA0GJH" , "Jaap Kroon, PA0IF" , "Hans Peltzer, PA0HRP" Subject: LF: Early Long Wave aircraft traffic Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:34:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE
 
May I add one more story to the fascinating ones already told about LF-DX?
 
In December 1934 Dutch airline KLM sent a Fokker trimotor type F18 to the West Indies. The idea was to open an inter-island service there. For the 3300 km long trip over water the passenger cabin had been completely emptied and filled again with extra fuel and oil tanks. Even the windows were replaced by linen to save weight.
The radio installation was made by Nederlandse Seintoestellen Fabriek at Hilversum (part of Philips) and comprised a SW set and  a LF-set that could work on 600 and 910 metres with an output of 15 W.
The first leg was from Schiphol (Amsterdam airport) to Marseille.
Using the LF-set on 900 metres the aircraft received bearings taken at French ground stations, but with the remark douteux (doubtful). The bearings were corrected however by Schiphol were good reception was obtained from the aircraft during the whole trip to Marseille over more than 1000 km!
 
The antenna situation at the aircraft was certainly not very favourable on LF. The usual trailing-wire antenna had to work against the aircraft itself as counter poise. But the Fokker F18 was not an all-metal plane. The fuselage consisted of a welded steel tube frame covered with plywood and fabric. The wings were entirely of wood.
 
During the 15 hour long trip from Porto-Praia to Paramaribo at a speed of 250 km/h nothing was heard from the aircraft for many hours and the worst was feared. But afterwards it turned out that the short wave set had broken down during the flight.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21486 invoked from network); 28 Oct 1999 20:47:03 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Oct 1999 20:47:03 +0100 Received: (qmail 31988 invoked from network); 28 Oct 1999 19:44:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Oct 1999 19:44:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gvFJ-0006G4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:30:01 +0100 Received: from kang.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.28]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gvFH-0006Fc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:30:00 +0100 Received: from p138.lifford1.eircom.net ([159.134.235.138] helo=beachwood.tinet.ie) by kang.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 11gvFB-0003LL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:29:54 +0100 Message-ID: <001801bf217b$626148a0$8aeb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: re: tuned counterpoise Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:33:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
From  Finbar  EI0CF.
 
Having  recently  put into service an ex  NDB beacon  ATU,  I now have a spare ATU.  It suddenly struck me, how about a tuned counterpoise. I have now erected one  about 15 feet below the antenna, but it shoots off in different directions to use up the wire, but all at about  12  feet off the ground.  The net result is  an increase  in  Antenna current from  3.9 amps   to  4.6 amps, however I am now experiencing  breakdown of the feedthrough insulator , in the  wooden window frame, causing the current to
drop back to  4.2  amps on average after  a short while on the air,  I can smell the ozone and see  and hear the the blue buzz and sizzle of the arc. But it has certainly made a difference to the Antenna current. Has anybody else experimented on LF with tuned counterpoises.
Tonight the   28th   I have a qrp  beacon running on the band,  1.4 amps.  Any reports would be gratefully received.
 
73    Finbar     EI0CF
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29786 invoked from network); 28 Oct 1999 21:17:18 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Oct 1999 21:17:18 +0100 Received: (qmail 4174 invoked from network); 28 Oct 1999 20:14:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Oct 1999 20:14:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gvgb-0006Rj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:58:13 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11gvga-0006Re-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:58:12 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id UAA15558 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:58:08 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <1999102821125968199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:12:59 GMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re GB2CPM Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit >From Peter Dodd, G3LDO I hope to do some tests from GB2CPM tomorrow, Friday 28th and Sunday 31st of this month. GB2CPM is the callsign of Amberley Industial Museum, formerly known as the Chalk Pits Museum (hence the callsign). The location is about 7km north of Arundel on the South Coast - I will try and find a locator. This museum has an extensive radio museum so it seem fitting that it should be put on the air on 136kHz. The site has been used for hundreds of years as a chalk quarry with kilns for making lime. The result is that there are chasms dug out of a chalk hill here in the South Downs. An antenna has been installed which has a 100m top and is 35m high across one of these chasms. The next problem is what do do about a ground in chalk. The plan is to run a long radial as Dave did on one of his GMexpeditions. The other problem is the shack - I will probably use a mobile environment like I did for the early 73kHz tests. How a 136kHz antenna will work in this environment is unknown. On early receive tests, Loran signal blasts through even though the bulk of the hill blanks the signal path to the south, which means that chalk may be a good insulator, even when wet. Tomorrow I will make some early tests in the morning. Reports welcome -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28156 invoked from network); 29 Oct 1999 11:42:04 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Oct 1999 11:42:04 +0100 Received: (qmail 957 invoked from network); 29 Oct 1999 10:50:21 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Oct 1999 10:50:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11h8y4-0005AH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:09:08 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.53] helo=pefletti.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11h8y0-0005AB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:09:05 +0100 Received: from default (MMMDXXIII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.47.223]) by pefletti.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA19582 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:09:00 +0300 (EET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991029130906.007dbcb0@laatikko.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@laatikko.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:09:06 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: New EMRP estimations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LF folks, CORRECTIONS & ADDITIONS to 136 kHz EMRP calculations: Earlier approximations were wrong, as is usually goes.. We could, at the last moment, arrange a Field strength measurements of Reinos's OH1TN 136.4 kHz transmission. Reino was running "full available power" with 100 W out The "sigma" value used for calculations now is based on earlier comparisons and measurements made on LF. Measurements were on 28 October 1999, at full daylight. The Fs table below is based on estimated EMRP of 300 mW. ---------------------------------------------------------- GROUND WAVE FIELD-STRENGTH, MILLINGTON METHOD OH1TN -> OH2LX (Measuring station), d = 152 km FIELD-STRENGTH DB ABOVE 1 MICROVOLT/METER EPS =10.0 SIG = .6 mS/m FREQ = 136.4 kHz POWER = .30 W DIST. (KM) F-S (DBU) 1.0 74.1 2.0 68.0 3.0 64.4 4.0 61.8 5.0 59.8 6.0 58.1 7.0 56.7 8.0 55.5 9.0 54.4 10.0 53.4 20.0 46.6 30.0 42.3 40.0 38.9 50.0 36.2 60.0 33.5 70.0 31.4 80.0 29.5 90.0 27.8 100.0 26.4 110.0 24.9 120.0 23.5 130.0 22.2 140.0 20.9 150.0 19.7 160.0 18.6 170.0 17.4 180.0 16.4 190.0 15.3 200.0 14.3 210.0 13.3 END OF CIRCUIT ------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20448 invoked from network); 29 Oct 1999 13:12:34 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Oct 1999 13:12:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 5596 invoked from network); 29 Oct 1999 12:10:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Oct 1999 12:10:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hAfV-00067t-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:58:05 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hAfU-00067k-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:58:04 +0100 Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id IAA19201; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:05:35 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA12970; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:56:57 -0400 Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by umrsvr.hsd.utc.com; (8.9.0/) id HAA01744; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:54:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:48:33 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Soegiono, Gamal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: groundwave questions Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:48:32 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello all I have some questions on how electric and magnetic field lines are aligned, how fieldstrength will vary with distance from source in the following four academic cases. Constrains which are common for all cases: * No ionosphere present. * earth constitutes a level plain of matter with electric parameters as specified. * A vertically polarized electromagnetic field emanates from an otherwise unspecified source. * The fieldstrength when measured on ground is 1 V/m at a distance of 1 km from the source. (case 1) assume earth conductivity is infinity, rel. permeability equals ONE, rel. permitivity equals ONE (case 2) assume earth conductivity is ZERO, rel. permeability equals ONE, rel. permitivity equals ONE (case 3) assume earth conductivity is ZERO, rel. permeability equals ONE, rel. permitivity equals 80 (eight zero). (case 4) assume earth conductivity is ONE mhos/meter, rel. permeability equals ONE, rel. permitivity equals ONE. best 73 de Gamal From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27999 invoked from network); 29 Oct 1999 18:05:05 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Oct 1999 18:05:05 +0100 Received: (qmail 26826 invoked from network); 29 Oct 1999 17:02:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Oct 1999 17:02:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hFFG-00009Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:51:18 +0100 Received: from host-124.bip.net ([62.20.92.124] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hFFF-00009U-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:51:17 +0100 Received: from default (t4o940p110.telia.com [194.237.163.230]) by host-124.bip.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA14099 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:47:31 +0200 Message-ID: <001401bf222d$78ba2100$e6a3edc2@default> From: "urban.ekholm" To: "LF-group" Subject: LF: Activity from SM Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:48:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hello all !
 
I will be on 136 tomorrow (saturday) afternoon from the summer QTH (if the antenna is still in the air !) and will start calling CQ at 1200Z and continue every full and half hour during the afternoon probably until 1500Z.
Will use approximately 100W output into a T-antenna with a  height of roughly 12m with top loading of three wires spaced 50cm and 30m long. Rx is a Drake TR7 + FET-preamp.
 
I hope someone has the time to listen and I will be able to work my first QSO on 136. A couple of weeks ago I was calling CQ for two hours a saturday evening but heard not one single station HI HI. Hope to have better luck this time.
Locator is JO78SQ.
Frequency 136.192 or 136.320 (using a synthesizer with steps of 128hz).

73 de Urban / SM5EUF
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26156 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 00:26:47 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 00:26:47 +0100 Received: (qmail 23377 invoked from network); 29 Oct 1999 23:24:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Oct 1999 23:24:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hL1E-0003e1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:01:12 +0100 Received: from public1.thorcom.com ([212.172.148.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hL1C-0003dr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:01:10 +0100 Received: from ah-img-rel-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.152] helo=hpamraaa.compuserve.com) by public1.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hDdz-0006Uv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:08:43 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamraaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-REL-1.2) id OAA22374 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:28:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave (host62-6-117-192.host.btclick.com [62.6.117.192]) by hpamraaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-REL-1.2) with SMTP id OAA22341 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:28:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003f01bf223b$2a244c60$c075063e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <1999102821125968199@zetnet.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Re GB2CPM Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:25:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Received: (qmail 464 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 16:21:20 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 16:21:20 +0100 Received: (qmail 17805 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 15:18:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 15:18:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ha01-0004RP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 16:00:57 +0100 Received: from public1.thorcom.com ([212.172.148.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ha00-0004RH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 16:00:56 +0100 Received: from mb09.swip.net ([193.12.122.212]) by public1.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hWdu-0007MI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:25:54 +0100 Received: from win95 (d212-151-43-146.swipnet.se [212.151.43.146]) by mb09.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA22742 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 16:45:23 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <001501bf22e5$c2eb02e0$922b97d4@win95.swipnet.se> From: "Christer Andersson" To: "RSGB LF group" Subject: LF: QRV Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 16:47:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello, (I don't know if this reflector is working, I sent a mail this morning but it hasn't appeard yet. Here we go again:) Tomorrow, Sunday morning, I will be QRV on 136.35 at 04.00z. QSY to 137.0 at 05.00z. 73 Christer, SM6PXJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 810 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 16:23:35 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 16:23:35 +0100 Received: (qmail 18482 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 15:21:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 15:21:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ha07-0004SL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 16:01:03 +0100 Received: from public1.thorcom.com ([212.172.148.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ha05-0004Rh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 16:01:01 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111] helo=gadolinium) by public1.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hFHY-0006YA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:53:40 +0100 Received: from [62.6.20.41] (helo=default) by gadolinium with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11hIOn-0006Ct-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:13:21 +0100 Message-ID: <003201bf2249$47e043e0$f3fdabc3@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: re activity from SM Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:04:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Urban, we will certainly listen for you. Is there any posibility of sending a QRS cq a bit further up the band?? Even If you have no way of listening for replies a test call might bring some response. 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com Locator JO02PB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3957 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 16:52:50 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 16:52:50 +0100 Received: (qmail 26179 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 15:50:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 15:50:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11haeB-0004vN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 16:42:27 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-6.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.139] helo=spdmgaaf.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11haeA-0004vI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 16:42:26 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaaf.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id LAA29108 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:42:18 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:41:53 -0400 From: "Lech Laszkiewicz" Subject: LF: Gibraltar test on 137.7 KHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199910301142_MC2-8B0D-F136@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: de G3KAU G0MRF and Gibraltar amateurs requested test transmissions on 136KHz from UK. G3GRO and G3KAU will operate the Crawley Club station G3WSC on Wednesday, 3.11.1999. Time: 0830utc Freq.: 137.7KHz Mode: Slow CW (5 seconds dots) 650w output beacon, callsign only. CW at 12 wpm at 15 minutes intervals, 1Kw output, callsign only. Loc.: IO91VC Ant.: Assymetric "T" Marconi, 70ft vertical, 300ft horizontal top. We will take short listening periods on the hour and half hours for normal CW calls (not ssCW). Station will be open until 1200hrs 73 de Lech, G3KAU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4339 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 16:56:32 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 16:56:32 +0100 Received: (qmail 27290 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 15:54:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 15:54:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11haiU-0004wE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 16:46:54 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11haiT-0004w9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 16:46:53 +0100 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-120-167.bellatlantic.net [151.200.120.167]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA24818; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:45:04 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <381B139B.C1CCCC4C@bellatlantic.net> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:49:47 -0400 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: "The First" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Has anyone performed some reverse engineering on the Dutch-manufactured "The First" 136 KHz transmitter? If so, please reply directly to me: akestelo@bellatlantic.net Thanks in advance Andre' N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4385 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 16:57:13 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 16:57:13 +0100 Received: (qmail 12135 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 16:05:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 16:05:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11halG-0004wn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 16:49:46 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.31] (helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11halF-0004wi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 16:49:45 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.151.202]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAB7F4 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:45:34 +0200 Message-ID: <001d01bf22bb$7bd8d5a0$ca97b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: groundwave questions Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:44:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Gamal, My antnna modelling program AO has the possibility to compute the total field in X, Y and Z coordinates but only to a maximum of 10 km from the transmitter. Over such a short distance the ground constants have hardly any effect so I don't think it would be of use to you. 73, Dick, PA0SE Gamal wrote: >Hello all > >I have some questions on >how electric and magnetic field lines are aligned, >how fieldstrength will vary with distance from source >in the following four academic cases. > > > >Constrains which are common for all cases: > >* No ionosphere present. >* earth constitutes a level plain of matter with >electric parameters as specified. >* A vertically polarized electromagnetic field emanates from >an otherwise unspecified source. >* The fieldstrength when measured on ground is 1 V/m >at a distance of 1 km from the source. > > > >(case 1) >assume earth conductivity is infinity, >rel. permeability equals ONE, >rel. permitivity equals ONE > >(case 2) >assume earth conductivity is ZERO, >rel. permeability equals ONE, >rel. permitivity equals ONE > >(case 3) >assume earth conductivity is ZERO, >rel. permeability equals ONE, >rel. permitivity equals 80 (eight zero). > >(case 4) >assume earth conductivity is ONE mhos/meter, >rel. permeability equals ONE, >rel. permitivity equals ONE. > >best 73 de Gamal > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5549 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 17:08:00 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 17:08:00 +0100 Received: (qmail 30583 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 16:05:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 16:05:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11haw5-00054R-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 17:00:57 +0100 Received: from public1.thorcom.com ([212.172.148.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11haw4-00054K-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 17:00:56 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by public1.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hQji-0006xY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 06:07:30 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id JAA19683 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:27:04 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <1999103009410768199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:41:07 GMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re: GB2CPM Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit > From Dave G3YMC > I was listening on 136 all day Friday from 6.30 local and heard nothing = > of GB2CPM. Possibly Peter didn't manage to get on (or maybe when he = > said early he meant very very early!) Sorry Dave, I should be more specific about times. If I can get the system fired up this Sunday I think the earliest I can make it is 0900 local (the museum site is not open until 0800 but access may be extended if the experiments are successful. Operation on Sunday will depend on the weather. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5594 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 17:08:15 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 17:08:15 +0100 Received: (qmail 30657 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 16:05:54 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 16:05:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11haw0-00054C-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 17:00:52 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from public2.thorcom.com ([212.172.148.20] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11havz-000545-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 17:00:51 +0100 Received: from ds9.sci.fi ([195.74.0.54]) by public2.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hTvL-0004FQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:31:44 +0100 Received: from default (MDCXXIII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.41.123]) by ds9.sci.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA06188 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:31:53 +0300 (EET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991030113138.007db4d0@laatikko.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@laatikko.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:31:38 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: Fs measurements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Along with OH1TN Field strength measurements on the 29th Oct 1999, I measured Field strength of some other VLF and LF stations heard during daytime: Fs in dB(uV/m), Det: AVE (except for Alphas) RX: R&S ESH2 (Bw=200 Hz) Ant: Active loop 11.9 Russian Alpha 63-64 (3 s peak detector) 12.7 Russian Alpha 62-63 14.9 Russian Alpha 65-66 16.4 NATO Norway 70-71 19.6 NATO UK 57 20.9 UK (ex 19.0?) 60 22.1 ? 62 23.4 DHO38 72-73 24.0 NAA Cutler 49 85.3 Local Decca Master 74.5 (d = 12+ km) 129.5 Warszawa 43-44 128.9 DCF49 40 136.0 DCF42? 20-21 136.4 OH1TN 18-19 (d = 153 km) 138.8 DCF39 25 (weak!) 147.3 DDH47 32 --------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15832 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 18:30:50 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 18:30:50 +0100 Received: (qmail 30945 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 17:39:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 17:39:13 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hcDc-0005ov-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 18:23:08 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hcDb-0005oq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 18:23:07 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id SAA13848 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 18:23:03 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <1999103018373468199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 18:37:34 GMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re GB2CPM Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit This message was sent earlier but was not 'reflected' >From Peter Dodd, G3LDO >I hope to do some tests from GB2CPM tomorrow, Friday 28th and Sunday 31st of this month. Tests thismorning (Friday) very good on receive but unable to get the antenna system resonant with the coils at hand. I thought with 300m of wire I would need less inductance than the system at my home QTH. I appear to be wrong. My home QTH has a fairly large capacity top, not all that far from the ground. The GB2CPM antenna, although that much longer is higher so the capacitance is less. It is a much better receiving site than my home QTH, I copied M0AYF 579 calling CQ - a bit frustrating not to be able to answer the call. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29812 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 20:23:28 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 20:23:28 +0100 Received: (qmail 21797 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 19:21:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 19:21:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hdyp-0006oE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:15:59 +0100 Received: from public1.thorcom.com ([212.172.148.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hdyl-0006o8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:15:55 +0100 Received: from mb09.swip.net ([193.12.122.212]) by public1.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hPZF-0006uc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 04:52:37 +0100 Received: from win95 (d212-151-100-169.swipnet.se [212.151.100.169]) by mb09.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA17917 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:12:10 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <006801bf22a6$73e58380$4c3d97d4@win95.swipnet.se> From: "Christer Andersson" To: "RSGB LF group" Subject: LF: QRV Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:14:08 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello, Tomorrow, Sunday morning, I will be QRV on 136.35 at 04.00z. QSY to 137.0 at 05.00z. 73 Christer, SM6PXJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29827 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 20:23:33 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 20:23:33 +0100 Received: (qmail 19844 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 19:31:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 19:31:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hdye-0006nz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:15:48 +0100 Received: from public2.thorcom.com ([212.172.148.20] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hdye-0006nt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:15:48 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by public2.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hSVU-0004Ch-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 08:00:56 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA13031 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 08:00:55 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <1999102918112868199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:11:28 GMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re GB2CPM Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit >From Peter Dodd, G3LDO >I hope to do some tests from GB2CPM tomorrow, Friday 28th and Sunday 31st of this month. Tests thismorning (Friday) very good on receive but unable to get the antenna system resonant with the coils at hand. I thought with 300m of wire I would need less inductance than the system at my home QTH. I appear to be wrong. My home QTH has a fairly large capacity top, not all that far from the ground. The GB2CPM antenna, although that much longer is higher so the capacitance is less. It is a much better receiving site than my home QTH, I copied M0AYF 579 calling CQ - a bit frustrating not to be able to answer the call. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21948 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 23:22:47 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 23:22:47 +0100 Received: (qmail 20501 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 22:31:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 22:31:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hgmq-0008MU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:15:48 +0100 Received: from public2.thorcom.com ([212.172.148.20] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hgmp-0008MO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:15:47 +0100 Received: from mail15.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.25]) by public2.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hGvK-0003ri-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:38:50 +0100 Received: from modem-111.effexor.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.64.111] helo=default) by mail15.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11hGvI-00013h-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:38:49 +0100 From: "Des Kostryca" To: "RSGB LF_Group" Subject: LF: Beacon. Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:43:51 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bf2280$99d514a0$6f40883e@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Finbar and the group, Your beacon was heard in Gainsborough, 18 miles north of Lincoln (IO93OJ) this morning at 07:15 on 137.5 kHz with RST 439 to 449. Was able to copy the beacon well all morning till about 14:35 when local qrm made copy difficult. I had been using a 10 mtr vertical with top loading but when copy became bad I switched to my 40 square mtr single turn loop (pointing North/South) and your beacon was back with an RST of 459 and well above the local qrm. I had been working in the shack all morning and most of the afternoon listening to 137 kHz but your beacon could be heard in the background thanks to my 500 Hz "barn door" IF filter. Funny thing is....I can still hear the beacon with the rig switched off :-) Must be over exposure to cw. 73's all, Des. Des Kostryca (M0AYF) G.Q.R.P. no. 9788 I.A.R.U. loc. IO93OJ W.A.B. SK89 Member of the N.B.T.V.A. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23230 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 23:35:54 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 23:35:54 +0100 Received: (qmail 22661 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 22:44:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 22:44:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hgyf-0008ST-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:28:01 +0100 Received: from mail24.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.220]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hgye-0008SO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:28:00 +0100 Received: from modem-12.yttrium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.19.12] helo=default) by mail24.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11hgya-0007a9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:27:56 +0100 From: "Des Kostryca" To: "RSGB LF_Group" Subject: LF: Re:GB2CPM Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:33:02 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bf2369$c8703bc0$0c13883e@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Peter (G3LDO) wrote: >It is a much better receiving site than my home >QTH, I copied M0AYF >579 calling CQ - a bit frustrating not to be able to >answer the call. Never mind Peter, I still find it very pleasing to know my 30W qrp tx can be heard. Please remind me of the location. Regards, Des (M0AYF) Des Kostryca (M0AYF) G.Q.R.P. no. 9788 I.A.R.U. loc. IO93OJ W.A.B. SK89 Member of the N.B.T.V.A. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29082 invoked from network); 31 Oct 1999 00:42:09 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 1999 00:42:09 +0100 Received: (qmail 739 invoked from network); 30 Oct 1999 23:50:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Oct 1999 23:50:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hhzn-0000cd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 00:33:15 +0100 Received: from mcclure.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.31]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hhzl-0000cY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 00:33:13 +0100 Received: from p138.lifford1.eircom.net ([159.134.235.138] helo=beachwood.tinet.ie) by mcclure.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 11hhzW-0000WY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 00:32:59 +0100 Message-ID: <002901bf232f$ac55c340$8aeb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: re: 500khz Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 00:36:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
There has been some discussion recently regarding getting a signal across the Atlantic Ocean on LF. A number of people have recounted stories regarding  conditions on 500 khz. Perhaps I can add to the store of knowledge and how it might pertain to
our LF band on 136 khz.
Firstly I spent 7 years as a Radio Officer in the Merchant Navy, sailing under various flags, from the tiny tramp cargo ship to the largest of supertankers. For the last 24 years I have worked at Malin Head Radio station   EJM, and as luck would have it, I was rostered for evening duty on the 31st December  1988. So it fell to me to key the 500 khz transmitter at  EJM and send our farewell broadcast. With much surprise one hour before my final transmission, up came the Dutch station, Scheveningen Radio, PCH,  first on 500  and then on 2182 khz announcing the end of watch on these two main distress frequencies. I'll never forget part of his transmission  .... '' .....old stations never die , they only fade away.........''.  Nice one, that.
Since  1993 I have kept a personal  log of stations on 500 khz,  unusual transmissions, closedowns (many) etc.
I really wish there was an amateur allocation  around this frequency, when the band opens up, its really super.
Here are a few notable stations I have logged over the  last few years, either at work (W)  or  at home(H).
 
                             Position of Malin Head     55.22 NORTH   07.21  WEST
 
DATE           TIME              STATION                        CALLSIGN                    Work  or Home rx site.        POSITION.
27/11/93       2130              DAMMAN (Saudia A)            HZG                               H                              26.26N  50.06E
07/01/95       2307              LUANDA , Angola                 D3E                               H                              08.48S  13.16E
26/11/96       0202              KITTANNING  (ship)              KGPK                            W                             04.00S  81.00W
22/12/96       0826              PALO ALTO (San Francisco)   KFS                            W                              38.19N  122.07W
14/03/97       1906              KEELUNG ( Tai-wan)            XSX                               W                             25.08N   121.45E
14/03/97       1941              NINGBO (South of Shanghai)   XSN                            W                              29.53N  121.33E
31/12/97       2130              PINANG ( Malaysia)                9MG                            W                              05.26N  100.24E
 
Note the ship Kittanning heard calling for 20 minutes on 500khz without success to  Callao /OBC , in Peru, was contacted later and the R/O confirmed his position in the Pacific Ocean, he was quite surprised his signal had got as far as Malin Head.
As you can see, its almost World Wide reception. The vast majority of Coast Radio stations use 1 kw to the standard 50m mast or  Tee  strung between two masts. I have noted a trend for reception  to be either to the East or the West , nights when Egypt, Turkey or the Persian Gulf  stations are tickling in , there's hardly a sound from Canada or the USA. Then there might be lots of stuff  coming in but it's buried under noise and static.  Stations like Chatham  WCC and Amaganset WSL, were mentioned, but their power levels were exceptional, just imagine   30-40 kw, a bit over the top , and to be quite honest, their signals never struck me as being that much more potent than the rest. When signals were in they were in.  I speak in the past , as the vast majority of stations have closed down. My last count there are  14 countries still on 500 khz, since the official close down, this year, on the 31/01/1999.  It did help me to catch two more stations recently, now the band is quiet. Both stations being in the Caspian Sea, 
BAKU RADIO / UBJ   and  then  ASTRAKHAN RADIO / UCY4  ,   46.20 N   48.02 E, not bad for a 400 watt transmitter as listed for  ASTRAKHAN.
 
My hunch  regarding  136 khz is we will make it across the Atlantic Ocean to either Canada or possibly (maybe) the U.S.A, but first they would need to switch of the LORAN pest over there too, my sources tell me it's a wipe out situation at present. Correct me if I'm wrong.
How about a new  band around      440 khz.  After  136 khz it would be  a breeze.
 
73   Finbar      EI0CF       EJM    
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7126 invoked from network); 31 Oct 1999 01:19:04 +0000 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 1999 01:19:04 +0000 Received: (qmail 20333 invoked from network); 31 Oct 1999 01:16:45 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Oct 1999 01:16:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hjO6-0001OB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 01:02:26 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from oso.slonet.org ([207.114.180.2] ident=cbuttsch) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hjO5-0001O6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 01:02:25 +0000 Received: from localhost (cbuttsch@localhost) by oso.slonet.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA19503; Sat, 30 Oct 1999 18:02:15 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 18:02:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "Clifford Buttschardt" To: "Finbar O'Connor" Cc: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: re: 500khz In-reply-to: <002901bf232f$ac55c340$8aeb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Finbar and the group. Your logging of the 500 KHz stations was appreciated! I too spent a great deal of time at sea listening carefully on 500 KHz and even lower frequencies on old fashioned CW. After retiring from teaching, I simply insisted that I accomplish a lifetime dream of going to sea as an R/O. This was supposed to be a one time lark but the opportunity lasted almost ten years. My observation of 500 KHz signals is similar to yours. I have a log just like yours kept over the years primarily of stations in the Pacific both North and South of the Equator. One will never forget the thrill of ZLS calling CQ using MCW when in the South China Sea. I worked KFS on the last day of 500 KHz operation. More power to your memory. There maybe a possibility of ham operation around 400 KHz, but looking at the IRU allocations, some marine frequencies would have to be reassigned. Again as you, I have thought in similar terms! 73 Cliff K7RR From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22482 invoked from network); 31 Oct 1999 05:57:15 +0000 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 1999 05:57:15 +0000 Received: (qmail 24318 invoked from network); 31 Oct 1999 06:05:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Oct 1999 06:05:42 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hnrz-0003qM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 05:49:35 +0000 Received: from aurora.eexi.gr ([195.167.28.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hnrh-0003qG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 05:49:25 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from odin (ppp73.dialup.eexi.gr [195.167.28.137]) by aurora.eexi.gr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA08470; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 07:49:32 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19991031074813.006c3e70@aurora.eexi.gr> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: sv1xv@aurora.eexi.gr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 07:48:13 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Costas Krallis" Subject: LF: Re: 500khz Cc: lowfer@qth.net In-reply-to: References: <002901bf232f$ac55c340$8aeb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi everybody, as there is discussion in this list about CW ship comms on 500 kHz, you might be interested to see a photo of the 500 kHz antennas on the roof of the Hellenic Coast Guard HQ (callsign SXE) in Piraeus. There was another such station in Aspropyrgos Beach, near Elefsis, callsign SXE2, which used a proper tower. The installation was used regularly to announce arrivals of passenger ships to the port until February 1999. Then it was replaced with VHF comms on channel 7, where the Coast Guard has a repeater. URL: http://w4u.eexi.gr/~sv1xv/photo2.html Best 73 Costas +------------------------------------------------------------+ | Costas Krallis SV1XV * LOC KM18UA | | P.O.Box 3066 * FAX: +30-1-3811362 | | GR-10210 Athens * E-Mail: sv1xv@eexi.gr | | GREECE * | +------------------------------------------------------------+ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24166 invoked from network); 31 Oct 1999 13:12:04 +0000 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 1999 13:12:04 +0000 Received: (qmail 248 invoked from network); 31 Oct 1999 13:09:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Oct 1999 13:09:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11huVF-0007LE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:54:33 +0000 Received: from mail12.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.215]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11huVD-0007L9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:54:31 +0000 Received: from modem-73.policeman.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.151.201] helo=lvm) by mail12.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11huV5-0003Fg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:54:24 +0000 Message-ID: <005801bf239f$c9d03160$d4be883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: RX Problems Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:57:02 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Can anyone help? WRT Racal RA1792 filters - my rx seems very wide.
Is Plessey PRS2282 more suitable for 136?
73, Laurie G3AQC
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14289 invoked from network); 31 Oct 1999 16:21:35 +0000 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 1999 16:21:35 +0000 Received: (qmail 17065 invoked from network); 31 Oct 1999 16:19:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Oct 1999 16:19:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hxXS-0000TL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 16:09:02 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.146] helo=spamgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11hxXR-0000TG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 16:09:01 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id LAA21645 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 11:07:57 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 11:07:45 -0500 From: "DEREK ATTER" Subject: LF: Signal report : SM6PXJ on 136.35Khz 31/10 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199910311107_MC2-8B25-452F@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Heard SM6PXJ on 136.35Khz RST 339 at 04-35z this morning (31/10/99). Called him several times and heard a QRZ? but not sure if it was directed at me! His signals peaked with me to 449 at around 04-45z. Also heard Toni HB9ASB call him and give him a RST 569 report but not sure if a QSO resulted because *** had by then gone down into the QRN and local noise level. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26151 invoked from network); 31 Oct 1999 21:42:03 +0000 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 1999 21:42:03 +0000 Received: (qmail 22319 invoked from network); 31 Oct 1999 21:39:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Oct 1999 21:39:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11i2QX-00039K-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 21:22:13 +0000 Received: from cask.force9.net ([195.166.128.29]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11i2QV-00039E-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 21:22:12 +0000 Received: (qmail 11418 invoked from network); 31 Oct 1999 21:21:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO main) (212.56.94.102) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 1999 21:21:45 -0000 Message-ID: <01a901bf23e6$802323a0$0600a8c0@main> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: GM trip Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 21:23:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all, I have just returned from NW GM and am in need of a new kite! I put up a rather poor inverted L antenna at the holiday chalet and was very pleased to work MM0ALM and EI0CF. Operation could only be done after 2100hrs utc due to bad local QRM so I think I missed the major activty periods. Whilst out with the kite at the headland just outside Ulllapool on Wednesday 27th (in a strong wind!) I worked EI0CF and G3KEV. I was told that others were calling but the Loran interference (presumably from the Faroe Islands) was S6 and even the TS850 couldn't winkle-out any more signals. The kite then crashed hard due to the strength of the wind and broke a dowell.. I manged to patch it up with an aluminium arrow I found in the back of the car and set off to find a less windy location, away from the West coast. >From Ledmore, inland and about 15miles North of Ullapool, I worked G6RO and EI0CF again who reported a much weaker signal. The aerial current this time was about 60% of what I could get at Ullapool, this I think, was a combination of worse ground and pouring rain.... Of course I put my foot into the inevitable wet boggy hole-in-the-ground whilst retrieving the kite. The kite is now a wreck, held together with sticky tape and the dowells are all bent. I sometimes wonder why I do these things but it was great to work some new ones! 73, Dave G3YXM, back home in the dry. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3771 invoked from network); 31 Oct 1999 22:38:34 +0000 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 1999 22:38:34 +0000 Received: (qmail 9414 invoked from network); 31 Oct 1999 22:47:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Oct 1999 22:47:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11i3Jx-0003cS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:19:29 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11i3Jx-0003cK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:19:29 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA13375 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:19:23 GMT X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <1999103123340668199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 23:34:06 GMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re:GB2CPM Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit >From Peter Dodd, G3LDO. Set up the station at GB2CPM this morning at 0830 using my old Shogun as the shack. The main problem was the earth/counterpoise and not the antenna loading coil as I originally thought. The 140m length of wire laying close to the ground allowed only about 500mA of antenna current. Worked GW4ALG 589/589 at 0905. Thought I heard DJ5DI. Worked G3YMC 589/589. Tried to improve the counterpoise by first raising it above the ground in small trees but antenna current now only 300mA. Nevertheless worked GW3XDV/P 589/589 (great signal from Mike in a portable location). Tried earthing the end of the counterpoise - no good at all. Tried using earth stake - no good in chalk. Fixed counterpoise close to ground using rocks - much better. Readjusted taps on PA output transformer and got nearly one amp antenna current. Worked PA0CWP 449/459, PA0SE 589/589, SM6PXJ 549/549, G3KMP 569/599+, PA2NJN 439/519, G6NB 579/589, G3BDQ 599/599, G3GRO 599/599, DK9DX 329/449 and G8RW 589/599 and finally G8IK449/569. I also heard DL3FDO calling CQ at 1400hrs but he didnt hear my call. The QTH is an old chalk quarry, and the inverted L spans a horseshoe shaped chasm cut into a hill. The open end of the chasm faces north so I expected there to be a lot of attenuation of signals from the south. In fact the Loran signals from northern France come pounding in holding the S meter at S8 on 2.7kHz bandwidth and even S3 on the narrowest CW bandwidth. All the signals of the DX I worked had to go through the hill so a predominately chalk hill seems fairly transparent to LF signals. The museum is now closed down for the Winter (this Sunday was the last day it was open and I had audio QRM from steam engines chuntering around the place!). However the closure will not prevent operations throughout the winter because I am a volunteer worker there. I must do something about the counterpoise! -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO