From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15629 invoked from network); 1 Sep 1999 05:43:15 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Sep 1999 05:43:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 8992 invoked from network); 1 Sep 1999 05:41:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Sep 1999 05:41:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11M2yk-00016a-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Sep 1999 06:30:38 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-2.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.135] helo=spdmgaab.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11M2yj-00016U-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Sep 1999 06:30:37 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id BAA00363 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 01:30:05 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 01:29:50 -0400 From: "Dave Sergeant" Subject: SV: LF: Loops - current measurements To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199909010130_MC2-8328-3610@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Received: (qmail 10247 invoked from network); 2 Sep 1999 09:36:22 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 2 Sep 1999 09:36:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 14768 invoked from network); 2 Sep 1999 09:34:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Sep 1999 09:34:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11MT2a-0005Dw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 02 Sep 1999 10:20:20 +0100 Received: from smtp.mail.big-orange.net ([143.179.236.31] helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11MT2W-0005Dq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 02 Sep 1999 10:20:16 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.150.176]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAABFA for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:20:04 +0200 Message-ID: <004601bef525$4da7f300$0100007f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: SSB low frequency network Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:26:05 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All,
 
John, G4GVC, used to run a net for LF-amateurs on Sundays, starting at 2100 hrs. UK time, on 1875 kHz SSB. Unfortunately John's work prevented him to do this any longer. Luckily Dave, G3YXM, took over. But he had to stop the net when propagation became too poor.
 
Personally I would like the net to be resumed but then on 80 metres because propagation on that band is now excellent in the evening hours. Also frequency allocations on 160 metres are not the same in European countries. In the Netherlands for instance it is only 1830 - 1850 kHz.
 
We would be lucky if John could be persuaded to put on the red cap again and if he agrees it would be fair to ask him to propose a  day and time for the net.
 
But first we have to know whether there is sufficient interest in restarting a SSB-net on 80 metres. 
 
So please put your opinion on the reflector!
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
 
D.W. Rollema
V.d. Marckstraat 5
2352 RA Leiderdorp
The Netherlands
Tel. +31 71 589 27 34
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24225 invoked from network); 2 Sep 1999 16:58:15 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 2 Sep 1999 16:58:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 32491 invoked from network); 2 Sep 1999 16:56:36 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Sep 1999 16:56:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11MZq3-00001k-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 02 Sep 1999 17:35:51 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [199.172.152.110] (helo=gigi.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11MZq0-00001e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 02 Sep 1999 17:35:48 +0100 Received: from wiser.excite.com ([199.172.152.234]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990902163534.UKTQ2517.gigi@wiser.excite.com> for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:35:34 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <936290133.6740.564@excite.com> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 09:35:33 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 212.140.155.45 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Having recently completed the loop antenna described in Radcom and connected it to the receiver I have built from a design in the LF Experimenters Source book (Lloyd Butlers Simple Regen with front end tuner, I am delighted to hear other hams regularly transmitting on the 136 KHz band, and thought I would give them a report. I am not sure whether they are all on this reflector, but its worth a try since I have no other way at present: G4GVC calling CQ at 08.30 UT on 29.8.99 S8 R5 G4GVC calling CQ at 09.00 UT on 29.8.99 S8 R5 G3KEV calling CQ at 07.33, 07.47 and 07.47 UT on 30.8.99 S7 R4 G4GVC calling CQ at 10.06 on 30.8.99 S8 R5 G3KEV calling CQ at 15.00 UT on 30.8.99 S7 R4 G3KAU calling CQ at 15.20 UT on 30.8.99 S9 R5 G3GWO in reply to CQ from G3KAU S6 R3 My QTH is Reading. The Antenna is oriented North/South to minimize the signal from the German Electricity Board station. We are on a slope with a hill to the North and East of us. G3KAU comes in from the south from Crawley as a very strong signal, but other stations in the Midlands and North are also well heard. I am very pleased with the receiver, but there was an annoying error in the circuit diagram, pins 5 and 6 on N1B are round the wrong way. This is probably obvious to everyone else, but for me it took a long process of elimination to find it. I am not QRV on any other band at the moment, but hope to be so soon again. The FT101E that I bought in 1976 needs some repair work, but I may have a go at a 136 KHz transmitter first. It is turning out to be much more fun building kit than buying it. 73's to all, John Sexton, G4CNN. E-mail: computernetworks@excite.com ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25809 invoked from network); 2 Sep 1999 20:28:40 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 2 Sep 1999 20:28:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 19687 invoked from network); 2 Sep 1999 20:27:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Sep 1999 20:27:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11MdFu-0001gH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 02 Sep 1999 21:14:46 +0100 Received: from neodymium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.83]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11MdFt-0001gC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 02 Sep 1999 21:14:45 +0100 Received: from [212.140.4.206] (helo=default) by neodymium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11MdFo-0001dO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:14:40 +0100 Message-ID: <003a01bef57f$55315260$ce048cd4@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: SSB low frequency network Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:59:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Sounds like a good idea. We tend to forget that not everybody active or interested in (V)LF is on the Net. It could also act as focus for listeners who may eventually become active, or from countries yet to be licenced. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com -----Original Message----- From: Dick Rollema To: LF-Group Date: 02 September, 1999 10:24 AM Subject: LF: SSB low frequency network To All, John, G4GVC, used to run a net for LF-amateurs on Sundays, starting at 2100 hrs. UK time, on 1875 kHz SSB. Unfortunately John's work prevented him to do this any longer. Luckily Dave, G3YXM, took over. But he had to stop the net when propagation became too poor. Personally I would like the net to be resumed but then on 80 metres because propagation on that band is now excellent in the evening hours. Also frequency allocations on 160 metres are not the same in European countries. In the Netherlands for instance it is only 1830 - 1850 kHz. We would be lucky if John could be persuaded to put on the red cap again and if he agrees it would be fair to ask him to propose a day and time for the net. But first we have to know whether there is sufficient interest in restarting a SSB-net on 80 metres. So please put your opinion on the reflector! 73, Dick, PA0SE D.W. Rollema V.d. Marckstraat 5 2352 RA Leiderdorp The Netherlands Tel. +31 71 589 27 34 E-mail: d.w.rollema@gironet.nl From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29839 invoked from network); 2 Sep 1999 21:53:55 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 2 Sep 1999 21:53:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 6130 invoked from network); 2 Sep 1999 21:52:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Sep 1999 21:52:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11MeYX-0002Hh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 02 Sep 1999 22:38:05 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11MeYW-0002Hc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 02 Sep 1999 22:38:04 +0100 Received: from PBRS176562@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id lLFHwbR.t_ (3897) for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:37:23 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: PBRS176562@aol.com Message-ID: <3724aefb.25004812@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:37:22 EDT Subject: LF: ODARS on the web To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 135 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear All I am writing The History of the Oxford and District Amateur Radio Club and at the moment am making great progress if you are or have been a member of the club I would be pleased to hear from you. the club has a web page which can be found at OXFORD AND DISTRICT AMATEUR RADIO SOCIETY http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/pbrs176562/myhomepage/club.html 73 Paul BRS176562 and Peter G20998 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13350 invoked from network); 3 Sep 1999 19:27:08 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Sep 1999 19:27:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 20766 invoked from network); 3 Sep 1999 19:25:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Sep 1999 19:25:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11MydF-0003PW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 03 Sep 1999 20:04:17 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.148] helo=spamgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11MydE-0003PR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 03 Sep 1999 20:04:16 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id PAA03758 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:04:14 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:03:13 -0400 From: "Prof R. Jennison" Subject: LF: 73 kHz band, beacon test. To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199909031504_MC2-8389-65B3@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I shall be testing my beacon on 72.0 kHz (plus or minus about 100 Hz) between about 0700 Z and 0830 Z this Saturday and Sunday 4th and 5th September. I also hope to transmit for a longer period on Tuesday, 7th September, when the Rugby transmitter may be off the air. Any reports will be extremely welcome. 73, Roger, G2AJV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10886 invoked from network); 4 Sep 1999 13:52:04 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 4 Sep 1999 13:52:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 31104 invoked from network); 4 Sep 1999 13:50:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Sep 1999 13:50:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11NFtW-0002zh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 04 Sep 1999 14:30:14 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ah-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.154] helo=hpamgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11NFtV-0002z9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 04 Sep 1999 14:30:13 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.8) id JAA08577 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 09:29:41 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 09:29:11 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: PSK31 anyone? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199909040929_MC2-838F-5582@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Lowfers, after being back from vacation in EI (operating presumably the world's first LF listening post in a horse drawn caravan, sorry Finbar, the way was too long to your QTH) I used the rest of my free days to put a relatively simple transverter into operation, consisting of a GF61 level generator with the 4137 kHz transverter output signal of an old IC-751 injected instead of the local oscillator (details please see my homepage http://www.dk8kw.home.pages.de). This allows me now to transmit SSB based modes such as PSK31, Hell, RTTY, etc. on LF. I had my first PSK31 duplex QSO today (well, actually, my XYL Andrea, DL3ABC operated the PSK31 LF station while I was sitting 2.5 km away with my mobile receiving station answering her on 2m), so the setup seems to work! I will send a 1 hour PSK31 test transission tomorrow, Sunday, September 5, 1999 between 09.00 and 10.00 UTC on 137.450 kHz. The output level will be approximately 3 dB less than my usual signal. Whoever would like to run a full PSK31 (or QPSK) QSO, please send me an e-mail (dk8kw@compuserve.com), I would love to conduct the first DL to wherever PSK31 QSOs! PSK31 is a PC-based transmission mode. G3PLX has written a simple (free-ware) program that only needs the soundcard to transmit and/or receive PSK31. The program can be downloaded at the PSK31 official homepage (http://bipt106.bi.ehu.es/psk31.html, current version 1.08). The big advanages of this transmission mode are the very narrow bandwidth of 31 Hz and the very good tolerance aginst noise. Similar to Slow CW, PSK31 signals can be detected even if they are below the noise floor. CU, best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10504 invoked from network); 4 Sep 1999 19:41:45 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 4 Sep 1999 19:41:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 20966 invoked from network); 4 Sep 1999 19:40:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Sep 1999 19:40:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11NLYp-0005cy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 04 Sep 1999 20:33:15 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11NLYp-0005ct-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 04 Sep 1999 20:33:15 +0100 Received: from [212.140.7.208] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11NLYl-0001bR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 20:33:12 +0100 Message-ID: <000501bef70b$da7eda40$d0078cd4@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: re PSK31 ...Geri Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 20:28:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Geri I have just got an RX-only PSK31 s/w running on my computer but unfortunately will be out at the times quoted. I will leave a waterfall program running to see if I can 'see' you on the screen. Sounds fun had my first listen on 20m this afternoon, I asm getting rather a lot of red on the Phase diagram, which is odd as I barely have enough input for FFTDSP4. I would be pleased to listen for you at some another time. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11479 invoked from network); 5 Sep 1999 10:32:05 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 5 Sep 1999 10:32:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 16276 invoked from network); 5 Sep 1999 10:30:40 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Sep 1999 10:30:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11NZOU-0003jV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Sep 1999 11:19:30 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from premium.inrete.it ([194.116.9.4] helo=mailer.inrete.it ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11NZOS-0003jQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Sep 1999 11:19:29 +0100 Received: from cel266 (pool17-015.dialup.alpcom.it [194.116.17.15]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA00451 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 12:19:23 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990905111816.0288dd84@mailer.inrete.it> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 11:18:16 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: LF: Sunday morning QRSS activity In-reply-to: <000501bef70b$da7eda40$d0078cd4@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I called in QRSS this morning on 137.710 and 137.720, between 0800z and 1000z. A station answered, but the QRN conditions here are still prohibitive for a decent QSO, so after a few tries I gave up. Sorry. Who was the station? May be DJ5.. ? Marco Bruno - IK1ODO spin@inrete.it SPIN Electronics - www.spin-it.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6259 invoked from network); 5 Sep 1999 16:54:36 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 5 Sep 1999 16:54:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 3447 invoked from network); 5 Sep 1999 16:53:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Sep 1999 16:53:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11NfPC-0006Uf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Sep 1999 17:44:38 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.148] helo=spamgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11NfPB-0006Ua-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Sep 1999 17:44:37 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id MAA29513 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 12:44:35 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 12:44:05 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Weekend report September 4-5,1999 (CW and PSK31) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199909051244_MC2-83AC-C7D3@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello YLs and OMs, another great weekend with very low noise conditions and some new callsigns in my logbook. Saturday, September 4, 1999 Worked John, G4GVC (-117 dBu) and Mal, G3KEV (-100 dBu) for the first time in normal CW. Dick, PA0SE was audible with his usual strong signal (-97 dBu). Reiner, DL3FDO kept callign cq and I could not raise his attention. After having crossband and Slow CW QSOs with Dave, G3YXM earlier this year, we had the first normal CW QSO (-102 dBu). Called cq several times in Slow CW but saw no answers. Sunday, September 5, 1999 Worked Bernd, DF8ZR in Slow CW, Bernd had a very good signal here and was even audible (-121 dBu). Set up my simple LF SSB-station, consisting of an old IC-751 as exciter and a Praecitronic level generator GF61 (details on my homepage http://www.dk8kw.home.pages.de) and used G3PLX's Sounblaster program to run a PSK31 test transmission on 137.450 kHz between 09.00 and 10.00 UTC. Got a nice reception report from Walter, DJ2LF in Erlangen, 300 km away! I have set up a sked with Dave, G3YXM for later this week to try a PSK31 QSO. Currently experimenting with Slow-Hell and might run test transmissions between 137.300 and 137.600 kHz during next weekend. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) P.S.: I found the designator "dBu" (not to be mixed up with dB micro-Volt) somewhere on the Internet for a voltage in reference to 0 dBu = 0.775 Volt. This is exactly what my MV62 (the succesor of the MV61 selective level meter) reads. For conversion see my homepage. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18787 invoked from network); 5 Sep 1999 20:49:42 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 5 Sep 1999 20:49:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 15005 invoked from network); 5 Sep 1999 20:48:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Sep 1999 20:48:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Nj2V-00088u-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Sep 1999 21:37:27 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Nj2S-00088o-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Sep 1999 21:37:26 +0100 Received: from [62.6.28.19] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11Nj2Q-0001Kg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 21:37:22 +0100 Message-ID: <000301bef7de$023cec20$131c063e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: DX cluster spots 4th/5th Sept from GB7MXM Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 21:31:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I listened on QRSS on the mornings of 1st,2nd and 3rd September with my loop pointing south east in case Valerio decided to continue his tests. Nothing was heard of him unfortunately. Friday morning was a good morning with low levels of QRN, a good 'O' QRSS signal heard from Geri DK8KW at 0700Z. A strong signal was heard from Mal G3KEV at 1025Z working G6RW on 136.9kHz at normal speed. I was not active on Saturday. Sunday was also quiet, ON4ZK was heard with a QRS cq at 0705Z a good 'O', and Geri again at 0807Z QRS 'O'. Geri later worked an '8ZR, I believe, I couldn't hear the other station (or rather see it on the screen). Geri was due to test on PSK31 starting at 0800Z but I was due to go out, so I left FFTDSP4 running. Geri was running lower power than he normally does on QRS but his carrier was well readable on the waterfall and test sidebands with a spacing of about 30Hz were clear. When Geri started to send PSK test transmissions the waterfall looked like a narrow 'snowstorm'. Unfortunately I was unable to run the decode software, because at this strength it would be a good test the ability of PSK31 to combat the noise. I look forward to other opportunities to try PSK31 on 136khz. Dx Cluster spots for this weekend 137.0 DL3FDO 4-Sep-1999 1349Z CQ CQ 529 in JN38VS 136.5 DL3FDO 3-Sep-1999 1524Z cq cq .... rst 429 in jo40 136.9 G3KEV 1-Sep-1999 1719Z cq (539 136.9 G3KEV 31-Aug-1999 2130Z (549) G3NYK de GB7DXM 5-Sep 1553Z > 1800.0 DL3FDO 29-Aug-1999 0737Z 449 on 136.7 G3NYK de GB7DXM 5-Sep 1556Z > 2000.0 DL3FDO 4-Sep-1999 1348Z 137.0 CQ CQ 529 in JN38VS 2000.0 OE5EEP/5 29-Aug-1999 0742Z 136,3 kHz G3NYK de GB7DXM 5-Sep 1558Z > Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10883 invoked from network); 5 Sep 1999 21:57:54 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 5 Sep 1999 21:57:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 28627 invoked from network); 5 Sep 1999 21:56:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Sep 1999 21:56:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Njxx-00003v-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Sep 1999 22:36:49 +0100 Received: from cask.force9.net ([195.166.128.29]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Njxx-00003q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Sep 1999 22:36:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 30780 invoked from network); 5 Sep 1999 21:36:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO prstesv1) (212.56.119.17) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 5 Sep 1999 21:36:38 -0000 Message-ID: <00e701bef7e7$3ac13840$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: 80mtr Net Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 22:40:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all, I agree with Dick and Alan that it would be good to have an 80m net again. The questions are; when and where? For my pennyworth, I suggest mid Sunday evening and somewhere low in the 80m band, 3646 and 3675 seemed clear of funny noises when I listened this evening but this may vary around Europe. Anyone else have a view? Dave, G3YXM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2546 invoked from network); 6 Sep 1999 07:29:32 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Sep 1999 07:29:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 31467 invoked from network); 6 Sep 1999 07:28:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Sep 1999 07:28:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Nsrx-0004Na-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Sep 1999 08:07:13 +0100 Received: from apollo.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.125]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Nsrw-0004NV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Sep 1999 08:07:12 +0100 Received: from pc171.geog.le.ac.uk ([143.210.151.171] helo=kate) by apollo.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11Nsrv-00030g-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 08:07:11 +0100 From: "kate moore" To: "lfgroup" Subject: LF: Weekend report Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 07:56:40 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Stations worked here over the weekend on 136kHz using normal speed CW: Friday 3/9 G3YMC (06.58UT: gave him 559, he gave me 599), GW4ALG (07.05: 58/99, 599). Saturday 4/9 GW4ALG (06.55: 58/99, 589), DK8KW (07.03: 559, 449), EI0CF (08.30: 57/89, 569). Sunday 5/9 PA0SE (06.58: 579, 579). I wasn't particularly active this weekend and whenever I listened, it didn't seem as if too many other people were either! From the afternoons onwards static levels were high which tends to discourage activity anyway. I was particularly pleased to work Geri DK8KW at last; he seemed to be doing very well and was much in demand. With regard to Dick's message about restarting the LF net - in principle I think it would be a good idea and help to both co-ordinate activity and also generate a wider interest in LF work. It's noticable that the number of newcomers on the band is very small and that a high proportion of those are not actually on the reflector. Having said that, we do need enough support to make a net worthwhile and there has never been a great response to calls for ideas on here. Inevitably it's going to be difficult to establish a time and frequency which suits everyone, but maybe we need to try something and see what happens. For my own part, Sunday evening is not convenient for me any more and, not having a linear of any kind, I'm not convinced I would have a very effective signal on 80m at night to run an international net, but would be happy to try things out if people feel it's worth it. If anyone with a better 80m signal would like to run a net, then that's fine too! Regards John G4GVC near Leicester, IO92JP ** TX: Synth + 400W RF from modified 'G3YXM' Mosfet PA ** ** RX: TS-850S with 3 x CW filters and 0.5ppm TCXO ** ** Ant: Inv-L 60m long, 6m high at feed end, 12m high at far end ** From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6280 invoked from network); 6 Sep 1999 09:02:21 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Sep 1999 09:02:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 18905 invoked from network); 6 Sep 1999 09:00:58 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Sep 1999 09:00:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11NuVI-0005Dc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Sep 1999 09:51:56 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from nurn-ip.esoterica.pt ([209.198.242.60] helo=nurn.esoterica.pt) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11NuVH-0005DX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Sep 1999 09:51:55 +0100 Received: from tut.esoterica.pt (tut.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.132]) by nurn.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26706 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 08:51:53 GMT Received: from slave2 (por367.esoterica.pt [195.22.18.68]) by tut.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA11725 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 08:51:52 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990906085306.007ec3b0@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 08:53:06 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: LF: 80m Net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear All, A positive yes to an 80m net and from my location (middle of city) before sunrise or after sunset for propagation reasons and generally during the week rather than week-end because week-end activity tends to be worse than week time domestic and industrial noise. Morning in preference to evening because of noise from and to neighbours TV sets. It gets worse and worse? For what it is worth I haven't seen an amateur signal yet though I can receive DCF39 easily and have seen (I think) both CFG and the Greek station weakly a couple of times around 0200-0400 when I was supposed to be asleep. The city lights produce horrendous noise which is nearly 20dB up on the background noise before they are switched on and after they are switched off (in the bandwidth of my loop). There is another electrical activity during this period which switches on and off for periods of hours but usually gives me slightly reduced noise 0200-0400. The electricity company seems to be testing that control signal which has a 0.75s period from time to time. Anybody know if it has a name? As you can see I am an optimist and looking forward to relearning my cw. Thank you to all who have put much interesting information on the reflector. with best 73's, Brian CT1DRP was G3RBR Locator: IN51QD 41N10 8W39 approx. PS Can anybody tell me where to find the UBA monitoring programme for download? From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25383 invoked from network); 6 Sep 1999 12:26:16 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Sep 1999 12:26:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 1345 invoked from network); 6 Sep 1999 12:24:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Sep 1999 12:24:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11NxiB-0006q4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Sep 1999 13:17:27 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.31] (helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11NxiA-0006pz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Sep 1999 13:17:26 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.150.246]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA2CE8 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:17:22 +0200 Message-ID: <001801bef862$c415d080$f696b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: 80mtr Net Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:17:56 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave wrote: >I agree with Dick and Alan that it would be good to have an 80m net again. >The questions are; when and where? >For my pennyworth, I suggest mid Sunday evening and somewhere low in the 80m >band, 3646 and 3675 seemed clear of funny noises when I listened this >evening but this may vary around Europe. >Anyone else have a view? I agree. As for propagation: the later the better. Perhaps 1900 UTC would be a good time to start. It can always be changed once the net is underway. Has it been decided who will be net controller? I think Dave, G3YXM, or John, G4GVC, would be very good candidates. 73, Dick, PA0SE D.W. Rollema V.d. Marckstraat 5 2352 RA Leiderdorp TYhe Netherlands Tel. +31 71 589 27 34 E-mail: d.w.rollema@gironet.nl From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25728 invoked from network); 6 Sep 1999 12:27:09 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Sep 1999 12:27:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 1575 invoked from network); 6 Sep 1999 12:25:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Sep 1999 12:25:47 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Nxjw-0006qI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Sep 1999 13:19:16 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from gatef.bbc.co.uk ([132.185.132.15] helo=gatef.kw.bbc.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Nxjw-0006qD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Sep 1999 13:19:16 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from sunf0.rd.bbc.co.uk (ddmailgate.rd.bbc.co.uk [132.185.128.104]) by gatef.kw.bbc.co.uk (8.8.5/8.7.2) with SMTP id NAA06168 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:19:14 +0100 (BST) Received: from pc523 by sunf0.rd.bbc.co.uk; Mon, 6 Sep 99 13:19:13 BST X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990906131858.00a08750@sunf0> X-Sender: simonlh@sunf0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 13:18:58 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Simon Lloyd-Hughes" Subject: Re: LF: 73 kHz band, beacon test. In-reply-to: <199909031504_MC2-8389-65B3@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Roger. When will you be testing on Tuesday? At 15:03 03/09/99 -0400, you wrote: >I shall be testing my beacon on 72.0 kHz (plus or minus about 100 Hz) >between about 0700 Z and 0830 Z this Saturday and Sunday 4th and 5th >September. I also hope to transmit for a longer period on Tuesday, 7th >September, when the Rugby transmitter may be off the air. Any reports will >be extremely welcome. >73, Roger, G2AJV. > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11011 invoked from network); 6 Sep 1999 20:24:23 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Sep 1999 20:24:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 21862 invoked from network); 6 Sep 1999 20:23:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Sep 1999 20:23:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11O51R-0001ut-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Sep 1999 21:05:49 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-4.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.137] helo=spdmgaad.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11O51O-0001uo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Sep 1999 21:05:47 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id QAA15677 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 16:05:44 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 16:04:39 -0400 From: "Prof R. Jennison" Subject: Re: LF: 73 kHz band, beacon test. To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199909061605_MC2-83C5-6966@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I hope to transmit on the beacon from c 07.30am BST until at least c 09.30 BST on Tuesday. I can switch it on at a more convenient time by request if you will let me know your preference. The nominalfrequency will be around 72 kHz but there is a slight tendency to drift downwards if I leave it on for a long time. 73, Roger G2AJV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1886 invoked from network); 6 Sep 1999 21:17:30 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Sep 1999 21:17:30 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Received: (qmail 2298 invoked from network); 6 Sep 1999 21:16:10 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Sep 1999 21:16:10 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11O5wJ-0002OB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Sep 1999 22:04:35 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11O5wI-0002O6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Sep 1999 22:04:34 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from pagnell.demon.co.uk ([158.152.83.229]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11O5w9-000MOE-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:04:27 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 22:03:36 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "John W Gould" Subject: LF: The Nevada Cup; the RSGB LF Experimenter's Award MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The RSGB HF Committee are delighted to announce that this year the RSGB's LF Experimenter's Award is to be sponsored by Nevada. It is now time to submit nominations for this award. The Cup will be presented at the LF Forum at the RSGB International HF & IOTA Convention in October. This annual award is for the most significant contribution, by any RSGB member, towards scientific or engineering development of receiver and / or transmitter design, modulation technique, aerial design or propagation on the 73kHz or 136kHz UK amateur allocations. The RSGB HF Committee will make the award in consultation, as required, with the sponsor Nevada. The submission for the award must come either from a holder of a UK Amateur Licence or a person who is a member of the RSGB. The sponsor must not be the potential receipiant of the award or a close relative. The submission must contain either a full description of relevant work or references of published work. The submission must state which part of the work is original. The RSGB HF Committee reserves the right ot nominate candidates alongside or in the absence of any individually sponsored nominees. The RSGB HF Committee's view is final Send nominations - by post to the Publications Dept., RSGB HQ, Lambda House, Cranbourne Road, Potters Bar, Herts EN6 3JE - by fax to 01707 645105 - or by email to publications@rsgb.org.uk to arrive by Friday 24 September 1998 -- John Gould, G3WKL g3wkl@btinternet.com g3wkl@pagnell.demon.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1398 invoked from network); 7 Sep 1999 09:06:04 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Sep 1999 09:06:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 15844 invoked from network); 7 Sep 1999 09:04:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Sep 1999 09:04:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11OGsU-0007lt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 07 Sep 1999 09:45:22 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11OGsT-0007lo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 07 Sep 1999 09:45:21 +0100 Received: from [62.6.28.68] (helo=default) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11OGsG-0005CY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 09:45:09 +0100 Message-ID: <000901bef90c$cedd83a0$441c063e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: G2AJV beacon not heard Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 09:40:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Roger I listened from about 0800BST to about 0930BST on 72kHz nominal, using FFTDSP4 and Spectrogram, but sorry to say nothing heard. I did listen at the weekend but the local noise level was a lot worse than today. Interestingly the local noise level seemed to decrease a little at about 0900BST. I suppose this coincides with the end of the Breakfast News programs on TV. I was using a 26t 1.2m diam passive loop tuned with about 500pF (I think), tapped at 2t with coax feed (abt 5m RG58) to an AOR 7030 rx fitted with (and using) a Collins 500 Hz filter. The loop was positioned in a roughly N-S plane from my location which is 5 miles East of Ipswich (JO02pb). I tried a variety of integration times on Spectrogram right out to about 5 secs, but no signs of a trace from you. I must admit I have still to hear an amateur signal on 73kHz. 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10292 invoked from network); 7 Sep 1999 15:48:47 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Sep 1999 15:48:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 11049 invoked from network); 7 Sep 1999 15:47:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Sep 1999 15:47:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ON2t-00029c-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 07 Sep 1999 16:20:31 +0100 Received: from as-img-rel-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.142] helo=spamraaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ON2q-00029X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 07 Sep 1999 16:20:28 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) id LAA13705 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:20:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave (host212-140-85-48.host.btclick.com [212.140.85.48]) by spamraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) with SMTP id LAA13668 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:20:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004b01bef944$5cad34a0$30558cd4@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <199909061605_MC2-83C5-6966@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: LF: 73 kHz band, beacon test. Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:56:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC I must apologise for forgetting yet again to listen for Roger this morning, despite reading his mail first thing! However it should be noted that they seem to have changed their maintenance schedule at Rugby and neither the 60kHz signal nor the 73.4 Rtty one were off today. I normally notice when my shack clock indicates it has no signal, but that hasn't happened in recent months so perhaps the first Tuesday practice has stopped. Listening later on 73kHz I find the Rtty station at its normal 30dB over, and as often these days an s9 hash level on the band. Apart from first thing in the morning I tend to suffer a lot from noise problems on this band, I am sure it is worse now than it used to be. I notice that the program for the HF Convention indicates that there will be a demonstration station on 73 as well as 136. Does anybody have any information on this? 73s Dave G3YMC sergeantd@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1740 invoked from network); 7 Sep 1999 17:39:35 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Sep 1999 17:39:35 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Received: (qmail 9485 invoked from network); 7 Sep 1999 17:38:08 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Sep 1999 17:38:08 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11OP32-0003Ca-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 07 Sep 1999 18:28:48 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11OP30-0003CV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 07 Sep 1999 18:28:46 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from dennison.demon.co.uk ([194.222.239.33]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11OP2t-000FOV-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:28:40 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:27:15 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Mike Dennison" Subject: LF: Holiday activity from GW MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Just back from a very relaxing two weeks in south-west Wales. Did not take a transmitter or mast this summer owing to exhaustion! Did a little receiving, though, using my 1m loop. Bought a new kite - delta shaped - which flies in very light winds, goes straight to 200ft (65m) almost vertically, and pulls well. Will be attaching a light weight wire to it shortly, and will use it for my October 73kHz expedition. Saturday evening, 29 August Heard G3KEV (569). Sunday morning, 30 August Heard G4GVC (599) working DJ5BV (audible at 119). Heard PA0SE (549). Saturday morning, 4 September Heard G0UPU (569); G3BDQ (579); G3YXM (599 working DK8KW (over 1000km from me and just audible at 119). Heard PA0SE (549); OZ1KMR (439); GW4ALG (579). Sunday morning, 5 September Heard nothing. -- -- Mike, G3XDV http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7009 invoked from network); 7 Sep 1999 21:21:07 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Sep 1999 21:21:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 1215 invoked from network); 7 Sep 1999 21:19:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Sep 1999 21:19:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11OSSB-0004qY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 07 Sep 1999 22:06:59 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail1-gui.server.ntli.net ([194.168.222.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11OSSA-0004qT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 07 Sep 1999 22:06:58 +0100 Received: from cableol.co.uk ([194.168.18.83]) by mail1-gui.server.ntli.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-33929U70000L2S50) with ESMTP id AAA799 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:23:13 +0100 Message-ID: <37D572F0.D8624A54@cableol.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 21:17:53 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: G2AJV beacon not heard References: <000901bef90c$cedd83a0$441c063e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Roger I also listened this morning using my 65 m perimeter loop, resonated to 73 kHz. But I could not hear your signals. Nevertheless, thank you for running the beacon. I will listen again during your next series of tests. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8960 invoked from network); 8 Sep 1999 13:43:07 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 8 Sep 1999 13:43:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 23636 invoked from network); 8 Sep 1999 13:41:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Sep 1999 13:41:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11OhlU-0003oj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 08 Sep 1999 14:27:56 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11OhlT-0003oa-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 08 Sep 1999 14:27:55 +0100 Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id JAA16695; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:34:20 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA17618; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:26:41 -0400 Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by umrsvr.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA12478; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:23:08 -0400 Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:18:11 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Soegiono, Gamal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: former/future usage of german LF frequencies Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:18:10 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello LF enthusuasts, The german "Regulatory Authority for Telecommunications and Posts" recently published a questionary to evaluate the market's needs for low frequency allocations. Details (these are in german - sorry) can be found at the following URL: http://www.regtp.de/Fachinfo/Langwelle/start.htm and http://www.regtp.de/Fachinfo/Langwelle/amtsbl.htm In essence, a.m. german authority plans to re-use a set of frequencies (allocated to germany on primary or secondary basis according to the IFRB / ITU) in the LF range, which is internationally allocated to the fixed service and navigation service. The following 11 frequencies are involved: (1) 46.250 kHz (2) 47.450 kHz (3) 55.250 kHz (4) 69.700 kHz (5) 94.500 kHz (6) 110.550 kHz (7) 117.400 kHz (8) 131.400 kHz (9) 136.800 kHz (10) 146.000 kHz (11) 147.300 kHz Especially interesting is the list of former usage of those frequencies, contained in the "amtsbl.htm", which I compile here for better readability: ==List start ================================================== (1) frequency 46,250 kHz station site Mainflingen bandwidth / modulation 1K20 A7B-- max power into antenna + 37.0 dBW (2) frequency 47,450 kHz station site Mainflingen bandwidth / modulation 400 HA1B-- max power into antenna + 40.0 dBW (3) frequency 55,250 kHz station site Mainflingen bandwidth / modulation 1K20 F1B-- max power into antenna + 40.0 dBW (4) frequency 69,700 kHz station site Konigswusterhausen bandwidth / modulation 2K10 A2B-- max power into antenna + 43.0 dBW (5) frequency 94,500 kHz station site Konigswusterhausen bandwidth / modulation 1K10 F1B-- max power into antenna + 40.0 dBW (6) frequency 110,550 kHz station site Bad Vilbel bandwidth / modulation 1K00 F1B-- max power into antenna + 44.8 dBW (7) frequency 117,400 kHz station site Mainflingen bandwidth / modulation 2K40 F1C max power into antenna + 40.0 dBW (8) frequency 131,400 kHz station site Kiel bandwidth / modulation 600H F1B-- max power into antenna + 30.0 dBW (9) frequency 136,800 kHz station site Pinneberg bandwidth / modulation 500H A1B-- max power into antenna + 31.8 dBW (10) frequency 146,000 kHz station site Konigswusterhausen bandwidth / modulation 1K10 F1B-- max power into antenna + 43.0 dBW (11) frequency 147,300 kHz station site Pinneberg bandwidth / modulation 500H F1B-- max power into antenna + 31.8 dBW ==List stop ================================================== Isn't frequency (9) right inside the frequency range allocated to the radio amateur service (on a secondary basis) ??? What does this say to us in lieu of usability of the LF band in future ??? This information is useful to update frequency lists held by several OMs, as it constitutes the official and legal limit of frequency usage of the past. On the other side it may throw a shadow on possible future usage as well and give an impress on what we may expect (more QRM) on the LF range in the future. 73 de Gamal From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25622 invoked from network); 8 Sep 1999 16:43:27 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 8 Sep 1999 16:43:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 1371 invoked from network); 8 Sep 1999 16:42:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Sep 1999 16:42:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Okcy-0005Jm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 08 Sep 1999 17:31:20 +0100 Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Okcx-0005Jh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 08 Sep 1999 17:31:19 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:30:33 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de (PC10862.dial.uni-kiel.de [134.245.108.62]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA14798 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:30:57 +0200 (MET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37D68F1B.6EB09595@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 18:30:19 +0200 From: "Peter W. Schnoor" Organization: University of Kiel, Clinic of Nephrology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: former/future usage of german LF frequencies References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Gang, Thank you Gamal, Soegiono, Gamal wrote: > (8) frequency 131,400 kHz > station site Kiel > bandwidth / modulation 600H F1B-- > max power into antenna + 30.0 dBW > > (9) frequency 136,800 kHz > station site Pinneberg > bandwidth / modulation 500H A1B-- > max power into antenna + 31.8 dBW Oopss...! > Isn't frequency (9) right inside the frequency range > allocated to the radio amateur service (on a > secondary basis) ??? Yes! (8) is located approx. 15km N, (9) approx. 75km S from here...! > What does this say to us in lieu of usability of the > LF band in future ??? Euphemistic spoken: A real challenge at my location! > On the other side it may throw a shadow on possible future > usage as well and give an impress on what we may expect > (more QRM) on the LF range in the future. No comments from here, starting to pray... 73 from Kiel, Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19539 invoked from network); 8 Sep 1999 20:51:36 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 8 Sep 1999 20:51:36 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Received: (qmail 5515 invoked from network); 8 Sep 1999 20:50:26 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Sep 1999 20:50:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11OoXt-0007BD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 08 Sep 1999 21:42:21 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11OoXr-0007B8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 08 Sep 1999 21:42:19 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from pagnell.demon.co.uk ([158.152.83.229]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11OoXZ-0004YQ-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:42:02 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:40:59 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "John W Gould" Subject: LF: RSGB International HF & IOTA Convention: LF interests MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This year's Convention is a month away - Friday 8th till Sunday 10th October at the Beaumont Convention Centre at Old Windsor. I've added the programme detail below as the programme in the latest RadCom is not up-to-date - we have added an item since it went to press! Of interest to the LF enthusiast will be the following: Saturday 1015 - 1045 The LF scene in the US, One Year of AMRAD Experiments, Andre Kesteloot, N4ICK 1045 - 1115 Direct Digital Synthesis de-mystified, Johan Bodin, SM6LKM & Dave Bowman, G0MRF (Dave will do the presentation as Johan will not be attending) 1445 - 1545 LF Forum (73 and 136kHz bands), John Gould, G3WKL - Presentation of the Nevada Cup, the RSGB Experimenters Award. 1600 - 1630 Internet and the "Reverse Beacon", Stewart Bryant, G3YSX DX Dinner at which some of the LF enthusiasts attending will be spending a convivial evening together. Sunday 1100 - 1200 A practical guide to operating on 136kHz, Dave Pick, G3YXM Both days: 73kHz and 136kHz demonstration station (generously masterminded by G0MRF and G3XTZ?) - hoping to make the Basic 136kHz operating award this year! We are also hoping that John G0AKN will find the energy to bring his earth-transmitting equipment for a live demo! Display area for LF equipment, photographs, awards, etc. Full details at http://www.g3wkl.freeserve.co.uk/conv/prog.htm DX Dinner attendees - let me know if you've booked to come to the dinner. I'll do my best to see that we sit together! 73 and hope to see some of you there. John -- John Gould, G3WKL g3wkl@btinternet.com g3wkl@pagnell.demon.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15743 invoked from network); 8 Sep 1999 23:02:54 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 8 Sep 1999 23:02:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 6845 invoked from network); 8 Sep 1999 23:01:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Sep 1999 23:01:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11OqWj-0008CU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 08 Sep 1999 23:49:17 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as-img-4.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.147] helo=spamgaad.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11OqWi-0008CL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 08 Sep 1999 23:49:16 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.5) id SAA04454 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:49:03 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:47:08 -0400 From: "Prof R. Jennison" Subject: LF: 73 Beacon Test To: "rsgb_lf_group" Message-ID: <199909081847_MC2-8424-20E3@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Many thanks to all who listened for my 72kHz beacon on Tuesday. I was a silly old fool and switched on the beacon at 0732 BST but did not check it until after breakfast. At 0845 I discovered that the gain control on the local oscillator was set at minimum and the input to the antenna was therefore only a few watts. I had been testing the system the previous night and had forgotten to reset the gain control when I went to bed! I turned up the gain at 0845 on Tuesday but by then I suspect that some of you may have already given up. As from 0845 BST the system was on full power but slowly drifted slightly lower in frequency and as no one heard me I must conclude that there is something wrong with the system. It used to give quite good signals at 500 kM using ordinary morse, even when Rugby was active, so I am extremely puzzled but I will keep on trying in the hope that someone may occasionally listen on the band. Thank you for your forbearance. 73, Roger, G2AJV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22348 invoked from network); 9 Sep 1999 07:13:49 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 9 Sep 1999 07:13:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 18332 invoked from network); 9 Sep 1999 07:12:41 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Sep 1999 07:12:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Oy6G-0003Q7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 07:54:28 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ms.provinz.bz.it ([192.106.175.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Oy6E-0003Q1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 07:54:27 +0100 Received: from dnsi.provinz.bz.it by ms.provinz.bz.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01248; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:54:09 +0200 From: kflptrl13@schule.suedtirol.it X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from 1000dom0002sa.lasis.bz.it by dnsi.provinz.bz.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06513; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:54:08 +0200 Received: by ms.schule.provinz.bz.it with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:51:45 +0200 Message-ID: <57144F35EBDDD211BB0300805F8B9B680DF5FE@ms.schule.provinz.bz.it> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: book ? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:51:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Sir, I have two questions. How much does cost the book LF Experimenters Source book? Do you send LF bulletins via Email? 73, Peter, IN3GHZ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25912 invoked from network); 9 Sep 1999 18:33:32 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 9 Sep 1999 18:33:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 23493 invoked from network); 9 Sep 1999 18:32:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Sep 1999 18:32:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11P8d6-000045-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:09:04 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from panchito.austria.eu.net ([193.154.160.103]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11P8d4-000040-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:09:02 +0100 Received: from EUnet.at (dialup139.ap02-ried.at.eu.net [193.154.148.139]) by panchito.Austria.EU.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19360 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:08:59 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <37D7F7A9.8E12C5AD@EUnet.at> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 20:08:41 +0200 From: "Heinz Schnait" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: OE 136kHz Activity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: We (OE5PGL, OE5ODL and OE5EEP) will be on the air on Sunday, September 12, from about 0600Z to 0900Z in normal CW, QRG 136.4+/-0.3kHz. Antenna is 450m wire (still up!), power 70 watts. Hope to work you on 136kHz! 73 Heinz, OE5EEP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28367 invoked from network); 10 Sep 1999 07:18:30 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 10 Sep 1999 07:18:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 17364 invoked from network); 10 Sep 1999 07:17:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Sep 1999 07:17:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11PKdD-0005zO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:57:59 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as-img-2.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.145] helo=spamgaab.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11PKdC-0005zJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:57:58 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.5) id CAA26603 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 02:57:55 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 02:57:30 -0400 From: "Holger 'Geri', DK8KW" Subject: LF: PSK31 QSOs and Test Transmissions To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199909100257_MC2-844F-EDD0@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello folks, for those of you interested in receiving PSK31 please be informed that I have arranged a sked with Dave, G3YXM to hopefully establish the first PSK31 QSO between the UK and the continent. This historical event will take place on Saturday, September 11, 1999 starting at 06.30 UTC. Frequency is 137.450 kHz (hopfully +/- a few Hertz only). I will run a short test transmission and call Dave between 06.30 and 06.35, then Dave will answer for the next 5 minutes. Posibly we will be able to shorten the overs after that, however, currently I still need 10 to 20 seconds to switch from transmit to receive. For those of you who do not like to wake up that early and who need some more time to get a feeling on how to tune in on PSK31 signals (tuninge very very slow is the key to success as the signal is only 31 Hz wide ...) I will run another 1-hour test transmission on 137.450 kHz Saturday, September 11, between 09.00 and 10.00 UTC. PSK31 is a teletype mode making use of a phase shift keying modulation. There are various programs available as freeware (Windows, UNIX/LINUX, etc.). If you have a so-called multimedia computer, the easiest way is to use G3PLX's program for Windows 95/98 that makes use of a simple soundcard. Follow the link to PSK31 on my "links" page (http://www.dk8kw.home.pages.de). It might be worth checking 137.450 kHz from time to time as I currently also plan to run couple of tests in various HELL modes (kind of fax, whereby each singe character is faxed as a sequency of tones with various frequencies). There is a HELL mode that is compatible to Spectrogram so that you can read the characters directly on the Spectrogram screen. I am currently trying toestablish the best parameters and will advise soon. Also for HELL there are various freeware programs available. I will add a link to them on my homepage soon. Reception reports are allways welcome! Best 73 and happy LF listening and reading Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) P.S.: between all those tests, I will also try to run a couple of good old Morse-code CW QSOs made by hand ... From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8793 invoked from network); 10 Sep 1999 16:48:07 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 10 Sep 1999 16:48:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 3267 invoked from network); 10 Sep 1999 16:47:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Sep 1999 16:47:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11PTLR-0001qN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:16:13 +0100 Received: from mb04.swip.net ([193.12.122.208]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11PTLP-0001qC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:16:11 +0100 Received: from s-257519 (d212-151-34-76.swipnet.se [212.151.34.76]) by mb04.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA21809 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:16:09 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <007101befba7$df24e580$4c2297d4@s-257519> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: ELF Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:16:42 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I found this link on the ndblist email reflector: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/scmp/part07.htm 137 kHz can be considered "microwaves" in comparison... 73 de Johan, SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28158 invoked from network); 11 Sep 1999 07:33:46 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Sep 1999 07:33:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 8647 invoked from network); 11 Sep 1999 07:32:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Sep 1999 07:32:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11PhDu-00005Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:05:22 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.134] helo=spdmgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11PhDt-00005T-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:05:21 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.5) id DAA15693 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:05:19 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:04:55 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: 1st PSK31 QSO DL/G To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199909110304_MC2-8477-7377@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Heelo Lowfers, Dave, G3YXM and I just completed the first PSK31 between the England and Germany on 137.450 kHz. Despite the fact that Dave's signal was nearly burried in the noise, the G3PLX software decoded his signal so that I could give him 439 as a report. I received 339 by him. In his first over I had some difficulties to tune onto his signal because my MV62 synthesizer has a step resolution of 10 Hz with a kind of RIT-control allowing 0-10 Hz to be adjusted. A PSK31 signal must be tuned to an accuracy of a few Hertz only, so this is really a challange. The PSK31 software has a build-in AFC, but with the low signal levels on LF it has difficulties to tune in onto the signal. Dave, thank you for this nice QSO! Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6656 invoked from network); 11 Sep 1999 08:10:58 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Sep 1999 08:10:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 16968 invoked from network); 11 Sep 1999 08:10:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Sep 1999 08:10:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Pi7Y-0000WH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:02:52 +0100 Received: from merlins.force9.net ([195.166.128.23]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Pi7X-0000WC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:02:51 +0100 Received: (qmail 17756 invoked from network); 11 Sep 1999 08:02:49 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by merlins.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Sep 1999 08:02:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 1817 invoked from network); 11 Sep 1999 08:02:49 -0000 Received: from 201.hiper03.shef.dialup.plus.net.uk (HELO prstesv1) (195.166.146.201) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Sep 1999 08:02:48 -0000 Message-ID: <001d01befc2c$8a3bfba0$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: 80 metre net Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:06:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all, I propose that we start a net on 3646kHz on Sunday evenings at 1900utc (2000 UK). I will be there, I hope someone else will! Let's try it and see how it evolves. News... I made the first DL/G PSK31 QSO this morning with Geri, DK8KW. There's a screen shot of my reception of Geri at http://www.picks.f9.co.uk/newspic6.htm Sorry about the warbling noises.... 73, Dave G3YXM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11873 invoked from network); 11 Sep 1999 23:15:27 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Sep 1999 23:15:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 23258 invoked from network); 11 Sep 1999 23:14:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Sep 1999 23:14:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Pw6l-0006u9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:58:59 +0100 Received: from cask.force9.net ([195.166.128.29]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Pw6k-0006u4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:58:58 +0100 Received: (qmail 7888 invoked from network); 11 Sep 1999 22:58:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO prstesv1) (195.166.147.104) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Sep 1999 22:58:49 -0000 Message-ID: <001f01befca9$b5c65860$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: OK/OZ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 00:02:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all, Did anyone else hear OZ1KMR and OK1FIG working this afternoon (Saturday)? I just heard the end of OZ1KMR's over and he was signing off, did they make a QSO? No sign of Petr's signal here unfortunately. 73, Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22755 invoked from network); 12 Sep 1999 09:45:50 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Sep 1999 09:45:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 30212 invoked from network); 12 Sep 1999 09:44:58 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Sep 1999 09:44:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Q5mt-0002sU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:19:07 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Q5ms-0002sP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:19:07 +0100 Received: from dennison.demon.co.uk ([194.222.239.33]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11Q5mp-0004p0-0K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 09:19:05 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:14:53 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Mike Dennison" Subject: Re: LF: OK/OZ In-reply-to: <001f01befca9$b5c65860$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >Did anyone else hear OZ1KMR and OK1FIG working this afternoon (Saturday)? I >just heard the end of OZ1KMR's over and he was signing off, did they make a >QSO? No sign of Petr's signal here unfortunately. > >73, Dave G3YXM. > Yes, I heard the whole QSO - at least I heard all of OZ1KMR. He gave Petr 539 but asked for one repeat. I was watching on Spectrogram set for QRSs and thought I could detect OK1FIG, but not sure as his normal speed CW would have produced a rather fuzzy image in my narrow bandwidth. But there is something that starts and stops at the right times. Decide for yourself at http://www.dennison .demon.co.uk/oz1kmr.htm -- Mike, G3XDV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17799 invoked from network); 12 Sep 1999 11:57:49 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Sep 1999 11:57:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 24577 invoked from network); 12 Sep 1999 11:56:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Sep 1999 11:56:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Q88g-0003vV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:49:46 +0100 Received: from smtp.mail.big-orange.net ([143.179.236.32] helo=Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Q88f-0003vP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:49:45 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.151.82]) by Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA36A8 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:49:31 +0200 Message-ID: <001c01befd15$ea961f00$5297b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: OK/OZ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:56:12 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave and Mike wrote: -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Mike Dennison Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Datum: zondag 12 september 1999 11:56 Onderwerp: Re: LF: OK/OZ >>Did anyone else hear OZ1KMR and OK1FIG working this afternoon (Saturday)? I >>just heard the end of OZ1KMR's over and he was signing off, did they make a >>QSO? No sign of Petr's signal here unfortunately. >> >>73, Dave G3YXM. >> > >Yes, I heard the whole QSO - at least I heard all of OZ1KMR. He gave >Petr 539 but asked for one repeat. > >I was watching on Spectrogram set for QRSs and thought I could detect >OK1FIG, but not sure as his normal speed CW would have produced a rather >fuzzy image in my narrow bandwidth. But there is something that starts >and stops at the right times. Decide for yourself at http://www.dennison >.demon.co.uk/oz1kmr.htm > >-- >Mike, G3XDV I heard OZ1KMR working OK1FIG this morning (Sunday). This is remarkable because on an earlier CQ of OZ1KMR many stations - some very strong with me - called him but he seemed to hear only the massive signal from G3KEV with whom he made a QSO. Later, at about 0815 UTC, I heard OK1FIG (249) working DJ1RL (559). Called Petr in vain. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5128 invoked from network); 12 Sep 1999 14:45:26 +0100 Received: from cask.force9.net (195.166.128.29) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Sep 1999 14:45:26 +0100 Received: (qmail 8326 invoked from network); 12 Sep 1999 13:45:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Sep 1999 13:45:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Q9jh-0004fU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:32:05 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from endjinn.austria.eu.net ([193.81.13.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Q9jg-0004fP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:32:05 +0100 Received: from qsl.net (dialup212.ap01-ried.at.eu.net [193.154.148.212]) by endjinn.Austria.EU.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24709 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:32:02 +0200 (MET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37DBAB3B.466886CB@qsl.net> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:31:39 +0200 From: "Heinz Schnait" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: OE Activity Report Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit We have been on the air on Sunday from 0550Z to 0845Z. No transmitter problems this time! It was a remarkable low noise sunday morning.

Two-way CW QSO's with OK1FIG (313km, OE/OK First!), DL1SAN (again, 268km) and HB9DCE (349km) could be completed. We have heared DK8KW (he was solid copy here, called him before and after his QSO with OK1FIG), OZ1KMR (called him before and after his QSO with G3KEV) and DL3FDO (cqing, no response).

73 Heinz, OE5EEP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11855 invoked from network); 12 Sep 1999 17:53:06 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Sep 1999 17:53:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 15194 invoked from network); 12 Sep 1999 17:52:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Sep 1999 17:52:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11QDfo-0006QY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:44:20 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.144] helo=spamgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11QDfn-0006QT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:44:19 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.5) id NAA06289 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:44:18 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:43:56 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Weekend report Sept. 11./12. 1999 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199909121344_MC2-8486-CC53@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: September 11, 1999 Dave, G3YXM and I completed the first G/DL QSO in PSK31. Received reception reports and screen-shots of my PSK31 transmissions from PA3BSH and DF3LP. Those screenshot and more details can be found on my homepage (http://www.dk8kw.home.pages.de). September 12, 1999 A nice Sunday: the weather was fine and the LF band full of new stations. Worked two new countries, OK1FIG (-117 dBu) and OZ5N (-113 dBu), and two new stations, DK1IS (QRSS) and DK9DX (-120 dBu). Got an e-mail from Heinz, OE5EEP/5, who heard me and called me in vain ... sorry Heinz, I did not hear anything, we will keep trying! Saw G3XDV calling cq in QRSS with a steady, good readable signal After my QSO with Wil, DK9DX I was called by someone, but was unable to read anything. So, who called me that time? Thanks for all the reports and e-mails, best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24658 invoked from network); 12 Sep 1999 20:06:02 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Sep 1999 20:06:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 6460 invoked from network); 12 Sep 1999 20:05:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Sep 1999 20:05:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11QFRR-0007Dk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:37:37 +0100 Received: from praseodumium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11QFRP-0007Df-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:37:35 +0100 Received: from [62.6.15.244] (helo=default) by praseodumium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11QFRD-0005aJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:37:23 +0100 Message-ID: <000301befd55$b7981f00$f40f063e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for 11th/12th September at GB7DXM Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:32:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I logged a very strong QRS cq from Mike G3XDV at 0615Z, and 0636Z but no reply was heard. At 0630 Geri called Dave on PSK31 and made a qso, unfortunately Geri was too weak for me to copy on PSK31, though his carrier was strong enough for hand speed morse copy. Geri was the same strength in his beacon transmission at 0900z, again no copy. On Sunday, I copied Geri working DK1IS at 0704Z on QRS, geri was a good 'O' but I could not detect DK1IS at all. Again a strong QRS signal from Mike G3XDV at 0843z. I also heard Steve GW4ALG working G3YXM (0858z)at manual speed and G4GVC (0913z). I am now being plagued by an unstable rasping signal, which I think may be the power supply of a local TV set, probably within 100m of my location. It is just possible, I suppose, that it could be a computer or games machine. This weekend's Cluster spots below 136.5 DL3FDO 12-Sep-1999 1422Z CQ CQ 137.0 DL3FDO 11-Sep-1999 1348Z 559 ! in JN38VS 136.5 DL3FDO 11-Sep-1999 1015Z RST 539 better now in JN38VS G3NYK de GB7DXM 12-Sep 1609Z > 1800.0 GW4ALG 12-Sep-1999 1417Z calling g8rw 136.60khz 1800.0 G8RW 12-Sep-1999 1412Z cq 136.55khz 1800.0 EI0CF 12-Sep-1999 0955Z wkg g3yxm 136.75khz 1800.0 G3YXM 12-Sep-1999 0954Z cq 136.85khz 1800.0 G4GVC 12-Sep-1999 0933Z 137.1khz cq 1800.0 G4GVC 12-Sep-1999 0933Z 137.1khz cq 1800.0 GW4ALG 12-Sep-1999 0930Z cq 136.29khz G3NYK de GB7DXM 12-Sep 1612Z > 73 de Alan G3NYK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 133 invoked from network); 12 Sep 1999 20:20:55 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Sep 1999 20:20:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 9427 invoked from network); 12 Sep 1999 20:20:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Sep 1999 20:20:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11QFiN-0007ML-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:55:07 +0100 Received: from plutonium.uunet.be ([194.7.15.87]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11QFiM-0007MG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:55:06 +0100 Received: from rd (pool09-194-7-6-165.uunet.be [194.7.6.165]) by plutonium.uunet.be (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA11428 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:55:02 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Robert_Decarni=E8re?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: growing interest Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:39:49 -0000 Message-ID: <01befd4e$319e7fe0$LocalHost@rd> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

Hello all de Bob,  ON4DY.
 
Who is going to tell me why someone all of a sudden is catched by LowFer, after spending over
fifty years of activity on HF, and the other end of the spectrum up to the 13 cm band...
but signals I recently heard on 136 Khz remind me the captivating years of 70cm E.M.E work, and
may have been the incentive kick-off to discover another fascinating world of weak signal reception.
 
Not having a dedicated antenna, nor anything else for this band, I built a two stage preamp, to 
enhance the sigs of a 360 ft beverage antenna, and put this in front of my FT-1000-MP.
 
This morning sunday 12th I copied :
 
05:42  136.4   GW4ALG  cq's
06:22 - 06:34  GW4ALG 559 qso with HB9ASB (439)
06:35    136.63            G3BDQ   559  cq
06:48    136.62            OZ5N    cq   439
07:30     136.63           PA0SE (579) - GW4ALG  qso
 
Other station heard before :   Friday Sept 10 :  Pa0CC     559  15:27 qso with G8RW 539
                                                  Saturday  11th   : OZ1KMR  329
                                                  
Of course the following stations have been heard while testing the gear during the two previous w-e :
 
G4GVC, G3YXM (one of the strongest) , G3KAU, G3XTZ, DJ5BV, G3KEV,
EI0CF (weak but just readable), DF2BC/P
 
So when you desperately end a series of unanswered CQ calls, never forget
that most probably someone ... somewhere has heard you. 
 
 
73, ON4DY near Ghent JO10TX 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29742 invoked from network); 13 Sep 1999 08:15:08 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Sep 1999 08:15:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 69 invoked from network); 13 Sep 1999 08:14:22 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Sep 1999 08:14:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11QQpV-000470-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:47:13 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hk.czcom.cz ([195.146.99.2] helo=serverhk.czcom.cz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11QQpT-00046v-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:47:11 +0100 Received: from lasvegas.GMCCZ ([195.146.99.33]) by serverhk.czcom.cz (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57399U3000L300S0V35) with ESMTP id cz for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:33:15 +0200 Received: by LASVEGAS with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) id ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:31:40 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: From: "Petr Maly" To: "'136'" Subject: LF: On the scene again Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:31:39 +0200 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LowFers, after several weeks I had a chance to go to the cottage with a newly built PA. I was lucky not to blow my IRF's again, so I have done my first QSO's on normal CW. These QSO's are at the same time the first QSO's on normal CW from Czech republic. I have made QSO with OZ1KMR, OE5EEP/5, DK8KW, DL1SAN, DJ1RL. I used 4 x IRF540, on 24 Volts (droping perhaps somewhere around 20 Volts at the key-down state), with the current ranging around 18 Amps (the current changing with the antenna moving in wind...). Now I am building a new PSU, with which I could raise voltage in steps to as high as about 60 Volts to get higher output from PA. I want to be on the air following weekend too, but I can't promise. 73! Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23380 invoked from network); 13 Sep 1999 09:07:11 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Sep 1999 09:07:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 19749 invoked from network); 13 Sep 1999 09:06:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Sep 1999 09:06:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11QRw3-0004dJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:58:03 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11QRw2-0004cw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:58:02 +0100 Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.5) with SMTP is 2147426172 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:57:45 +0200 (MDT) Message-ID: <37DCC074.E3203D61@phonakcom.ch> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:14:28 +0200 From: "Toni Baertschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: report sept 12 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: from HB9ASB, JN36pt The WX was to nice to spend much time in the shack. But QRN was low and QRM (as most of the time at this location) non-existent. Sunday morning I heard the following stations in normal CW (Harris RF590, 18m top loaded helix): OK1FIG, 559 (two S-units stronger at HB9DCEs location) DL1SAN, 579 DJ1RL, 559 DK1IS, 559 GW4ALG, 339, wkd DL3FDO, 559, to fast for my poor CW, RX? OZ1KMR, 449, first time I heard OZ! HB9DCE, 599+ desperately calling for OK1FIG Nothing to hear from OE5EEP/5: probably due to the "worst case path" between us. The waves have to travel all the way across the alpine barrier. HB9DCE, who had a QSO (first OE-HB) is 140km more in the north and therefore in a better position. Would be nice to try OE at night with a little help of the ionosphere. 73 de Toni From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12128 invoked from network); 13 Sep 1999 09:48:50 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Sep 1999 09:48:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 2295 invoked from network); 13 Sep 1999 09:48:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Sep 1999 09:48:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11QSV2-0004uM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:34:12 +0100 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11QSV1-0004uH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:34:11 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 11QSVx-0006HR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:35:09 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:26:11 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:26:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Weekend Report 10-12 Sep X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Spent some time working on my new mast which should be up in a week or two. Listened on 136kHz when I could. Very strong signal from the US RTTY signal so it looks like the DX season has started, despite some bad QRN caused by the record high temperatures. There appear to have been 10 countries active this weekend (DL, EI, G, GW, HB, ON, OZ, OE, OK, PA), though I heard only 7. Friday 10 Sep Heard G3XTZ (5 9+20 9); G0MIN (5 9+10 9). Saturday 11 Sep Heard the USA RTTY signal on 137.0 at 0450UTC 10dB over 9. Was 589 by 0600 and S3 by 0644. Must start monitoring this with the ON software. Heard GW4ALG (599); G3YXM (599) working DK8KW (539) on PSK31; G8RW (599); ON4ZK (539). Worked G3XTZ (59+9/599) Sunday 12 Sep Heard US RTTY 529 at 0740. Heard G3YXM (5 9+10 9); OZ5N (559); DJ5DI (429); OZ1KMR (569) working OK1FIG (see my earlier message); G3KEV (599); PA0SE (579); GW4ALG (599); G3BDQ (599); G4GVC (599); EI0CF (569). Saw on Spectrogram screen DK8KW (a good 'O') working DK1IS who was invisible. Mike From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16453 invoked from network); 13 Sep 1999 12:17:33 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Sep 1999 12:17:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 18091 invoked from network); 13 Sep 1999 12:16:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Sep 1999 12:16:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11QUu4-00062r-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:08:12 +0100 Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226] helo=gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11QUu3-00062m-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:08:11 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id OAA02457; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:09:38 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from somewhere by smtpxd X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Message-ID: From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" To: "'rsgb_lf_group'" Cc: "'dl1san@yahoo'" Subject: LF: Weekend Report Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:18:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hallo Group, here a short report of the weekend 11. 12. Sept. Saturday: Heard 07:40 DJ5DI 319 and DJ1RL 559, 07:53 HB9ASB 559, 09:51 DL3FDO 539 calling cq but didn´t hear me. During some tests HB9DCE called me. He got 519 with only 4 Watt! I got 599. Sunday: Heard DL3FDO calling cq ,06:38 DK8KW 519, 07:55 OZ1KMR 419 calling cq . tried both without success Worked OE5EEP/5 539 again and later OK1FIG 539 502 km! For informations concerning my equipment look at http://kunden.ulm-direkt.net/dl1san/main.htm 73 de DL1SAN Wolf From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12641 invoked from network); 14 Sep 1999 00:31:39 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Sep 1999 00:31:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 26146 invoked from network); 14 Sep 1999 00:30:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Sep 1999 00:30:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Qg4y-0002vU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:04:12 +0100 Received: from mail9.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.22]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Qg4x-0002vP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:04:11 +0100 Received: from modem-37.yttrium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.19.37] helo=default) by mail9.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11Qg4r-0005Rs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:04:06 +0100 From: "Des Kostryca" To: "RSGB LF_Group" Subject: LF: Advice on Antenna. Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:07:52 -0700 Message-ID: <000e01befe88$3e764be0$572e883e@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Everyone, Following a request to this reflector for advice on setting up an L.F. station (last winter) the help I received has enabled me to gradually build up a station which will be ready for testing within a few weeks. I promise I will do my best not to be one of those "deaf" stations and intend to ensure optimum receiver sensitivity. My special thanks to Steve Rawlings (GW4ALG) for his transverter circuit notes, this has now been built and works very well. I have been listening to activity on the band using the "strapped" feeder to a short doublet antenna to get a "feel" for the band and operating practices. The final part of my L.F. project requiring construction is the antenna. Though I had decided on a "T" antenna I now find that due to a lack of viable supports for the top loading wires I may have to "re-think" my antenna. The vertical part /around 10 mtrs) is ok but I have a number of options for "top loading" and I should like to ask the opinion of yourselves as to the best option to choose from the following list: 1) 10 mtr vertical only i.e. No top loading. 2) 10 mtr vertical with top loading "T" wires (7 mtrs each side) sloping downwards. 3) 10 mtr vertical with about 7 mts of horizontal wire at the top to form a sort of inverted "L" type antenna. 4) 10 mtr vertical with 3x7 mts of horizontal wire to give increased capacity. >From the texts I have read the theory would seem to suggest that a vertical antenna offers the best chance of success and the use of some form of capacity hat is desirable (top loading capacity) this reduces the amount of loading inductance and hence the loss. Reducing the number of turns on the loading coil can mean lower voltages and less risk of insulation break down. For these reasons I should like to include some top capacitance if possible. Reading past postings on this reflector it seems to me that the classical theory alone is not the full story and that successful practical "garden sized" L.F. antennas can be made to work. For this reason I should like to ask those of you on this reflector with experience with small garden sized vertical antennas for your opinions and advice. Thanks in advance and I look forward to working some of you on L.F. in the near future. 73's Des. Des Kostryca (M0AYF) G.Q.R.P. no. 9788 I.A.R.U. loc. IO93OJ W.A.B. SK89 Member of the N.B.T.V.A. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27415 invoked from network); 14 Sep 1999 05:36:37 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Sep 1999 05:36:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 8571 invoked from network); 14 Sep 1999 05:35:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Sep 1999 05:35:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Ql8B-0005GP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:27:51 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.146] helo=spamgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Ql8A-0005GK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:27:50 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.5) id BAA14580 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:27:47 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:26:13 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Advice on Antenna. To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199909140127_MC2-84B5-742B@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Des, first of all welcome to the LF group. From your writeup I can see that you have spend a lot of time to carefully read what has been published and have done some "training" listening into the band. This is, in my view, an excellent approach. I myself belong to the more unpatient people and have tried everything to be QRV as fast as possible. This included several disappointments and a stony road to success. If you have followed the reflector news for a while you will see that my signal improved quite well during the past couple of months. I have practically experimented with a couple of antennas. If you only have limited space available, you do not have too many options, I believe. You have already discussed some of the options in your message and already pointed into the right direction. To me, option 4 (vertical antenna with 3x7m top load) would be an option that comes close to what I am using. What I finally came up with is, what in the old broadcasting literature of the first half of this century is called an umbrella antenna. If you have access to the internet, have a look at http://www.dk8kw.home.pages.de, where I show my setup and a drawing of a commercial umbrella antenna from the past. The characteristics of that umbrella is, that the top load is not necessarily horizontal but the top load radials can slope down at an angle of 45 degrees or even steeper. This makes the mechanical handling of such an antenna much easier, because you do not need supporting poles in the same hight as your vertical mast. Those top loads should not be too long, the geometry that I selected here is an antenna height of 18m and four top load radials, 10m long each, 45 degrees sloping angle. To increase capacity, I had those top load nearly twice as long before, but this setup suffered from the fact that the top loads shielded the antenna. Shortening those radials increased my signal (and incoming signals, or example by DCF39) by approximately 3 dB. My mast is made of fibreglas, and I can retract this antenna within 20 seconds down to 3m, in case of an upcoming thunderstorm, for example. Of course, I could add the usual LF antenna advises: stay away from leaves and trees with your radials, even at moderate power outputs you can produce sparks that are a couple of inches long! And of course ground rods and earth radials are essential to make the thing work. There was a previous discussion on grounding here onthe reflector, so I am a little bit careful just saying, the more wire you put into the ground, the better. There might be circumstances when less is more. Hopefully this contribution to discussion helps you to make up your mind. See you on the band with a astrong and steady signal. Since you have build a transverter, I am sure that you are also able to run an SSB signal, so you are another possible station to be QRV also in more exotic modes such as PSK31 or Hell. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 366 invoked from network); 14 Sep 1999 07:28:59 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Sep 1999 07:29:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 29682 invoked from network); 14 Sep 1999 07:26:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Sep 1999 07:26:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11QmqN-00062S-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:17:35 +0100 Received: from apollo.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.125]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11QmqM-00062N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:17:34 +0100 Received: from pc171.geog.le.ac.uk ([143.210.151.171] helo=kate) by apollo.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11QmqH-0001zI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:17:29 +0100 From: "kate moore" To: "lfgroup" Subject: LF: Weekend report Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:06:38 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Stations worked here over the weekend on 136kHz using normal speed CW: Friday 10/9 PA0CC (14.04UT: gave him 579, he gave me 569), GW4ALG (18.06: 58/99, 599). Saturday 11/9 Called by DJ5DI at 07.03, my TX blew up at start of QSO! Sunday 12/9 GW4ALG (09.11: 599, 599), EI0CF (10.06: 579, 569), OH1TN (20.05: 479QRN, 549QSB). Well, it was certainly an eventful weekend! Friday started very quiet with no-one heard at all on the band during the morning and only a few stations later, despite static levels being fairly low. Saturday was set aside for a visit from Kevin ZL4MD who is one of the very active LF operators in New Zealand. I decided to go on air first thing to make sure everything was set up OK and get a few calls in the log; my first CQ call raised DJ5DI and I had just gone back to him when there was a flash and bang in the PA. A quick look inside through the smoke confirmed that one of the FETs had blown up, so that was the end of any on-air demo... Kevin arrived a little later and we spent several interesting hours swapping notes and photos, comparing the differences and similarities between the European and Antipodean LF scenes. I think he was a little surprised at my tiny TX and simple antenna/ground system, so it was quite disappointing not being able to show him how well it works. Activity was also very low, with no EU stations on whilst we were listening, but Steve GW4ALG kindly supplied a signal using both his loop and vertical so Kevin could get an idea of the strength of signals on 136kHz - thanks Steve. I got up fairly early on Sunday morning to rebuild the TX and left the RX scanning. This was quite frustrating as there was far more activity, with several German stations, OZ1KMR and OZ5N audible at good strength, and contacts being made with OE and OK (although nothing heard here from either of the latter). Interestingly only one FET had actually exploded and I could find no obvious reasons why this time - the last two events were both carelessness on my part, but not this one. Steve and Finbar both confirmed the replacement was working as normal, but I am a little wary of things as I still don't know what went wrong. I called into the 80m net at 19.00UT, but the QRM levels were extremely high and only 5 stations were on, including one non-LFer who just called in for a chat! Come on guys, we need more support to get the net going. During the net Dave G3YXM mentioned that Reino OH1TN was back on LF and said he would look for him after the net had finished. Sure enough, by the time I had retuned to 136kHz Dave was already in contact with Reino! Static levels were very high, but OH1TN's signal was excellent as he has made some improvements to his station - this looks very promising for the coming Winter season. When Dave had finished, I called Reino myself (quite a bit off his frequency) and was extremely pleased to make a solid QSO too..... and the FETs held out! Regards John G4GVC near Leicester, IO92JP ** TX: Synth + 400W RF from modified 'G3YXM' Mosfet PA ** ** RX: TS-850S with 3 x CW filters and 0.5ppm TCXO ** ** Ant: Inv-L 60m long, 6m high at feed end, 12m high at far end ** From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1778 invoked from network); 14 Sep 1999 07:30:58 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Sep 1999 07:30:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 31051 invoked from network); 14 Sep 1999 07:30:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Sep 1999 07:30:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Qmvj-000660-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:23:07 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail1-gui.server.ntli.net ([194.168.222.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Qmvh-00065v-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:23:06 +0100 Received: from cableol.co.uk ([194.168.18.11]) by mail1-gui.server.ntli.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-33929U70000L2S50) with ESMTP id AAA15359 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:09:21 +0100 Message-ID: <37DDF351.C0D362AE@cableol.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:03:45 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: growing interest References: <01befd4e$319e7fe0$LocalHost@rd> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Bob ON4DY asked: > Who is going to tell me why someone all of a sudden is catched by > LowFer, after spending over fifty years of activity on HF, and the > other end of the spectrum up to the 13 cm band . . . . I suspect that all of caught the LF 'bug' for slightly different reasons. But I think it is the challenge of experimenting on a different part of the radio spectrum - another frontier - that is the main reason why so many of us have been attracted to this new amateur band. It certainly isn't (at the moment) a band for the 'black-box' operator: most of us have had to build our stations from scratch. And some of us even had to re-learn CW! On several occasions I have found myself having to re-learn and extend my knowledge of basic radio theory. The contributors to this LF reflector have helped significantly in improving my understanding why some things work, and why others don't. So welcome to this reflector, Bob. And thank you for your update from near Ghent. You will find lots of information and advice here, should you need it. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG steve.rawlings@cableol.co.uk http://www.cableol.net/alg/radio/136/intro.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15490 invoked from network); 14 Sep 1999 08:07:07 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Sep 1999 08:07:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 10257 invoked from network); 14 Sep 1999 08:06:24 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Sep 1999 08:06:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11QnSD-0006KT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:56:41 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11QnS9-0006KO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:56:40 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA09848 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:02:33 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990914095618.30d79f90@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:56:18 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Advice on Antenna. In-reply-to: <199909140127_MC2-84B5-742B@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Des, In his mail Geri, DK8KW, has given a very good description of what to do. I would like just to add 2 options : 1. If it is mechanically possible you might gain some dB's by placing the loading coil (or at least a part of it) at the top of the vertical section. Especially with a rather small top-hat as you described this will increase the effeciency of the antenna. I believe that G3XDV has some experience with it. 2. Having several parallel wires in the top-hat will increase the antenna capacitance and is in some cases mechanicaly simple to implement. I use an inverted-L antenna with a 13m high vertical section and a 26m long horizontal section that consists of 4 parallel wires each 0.8m separated. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3850 invoked from network); 14 Sep 1999 08:46:59 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Sep 1999 08:46:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 25671 invoked from network); 14 Sep 1999 08:46:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Sep 1999 08:46:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Qo2W-0006fM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:34:12 +0100 Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Qo2V-0006fH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:34:11 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #34) id 11QovW-0002gw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:31:02 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:32:40 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:32:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Advice on Antenna. In-reply-to: <000e01befe88$3e764be0$572e883e@default> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: M0AYF wrote: > The final part of my L.F. project requiring construction is the antenna. > Though I had decided on a "T" antenna I now find that due to a lack of > viable supports for the top loading wires I may have to "re-think" my > antenna. The vertical part /around 10 mtrs) is ok but I have a number of > options for "top loading" and I should like to ask the opinion of > yourselves as to the best option to choose from the following list: > > 1) 10 mtr vertical only i.e. No top loading. > 2) 10 mtr vertical with top loading "T" wires (7 mtrs each side) sloping > downwards. 3) 10 mtr vertical with about 7 mts of horizontal wire at the > top to form a sort of inverted "L" type antenna. 4) 10 mtr vertical with > 3x7 mts of horizontal wire to give increased capacity. > A simple 10m vertical will give you an effective height of only 5m. Top loading will increase this, and since the ERP is a function of the square of the effective height it is well worth doing. BUT avoid top wires that slope down as these will reduce the effective height. Shorter horizontal wires are preferable - the more the better. With a small top section - mine is less than 20m - it may be useful to have a coil at the top of the vertical section, as light as possible (with larger top sections the resistance of the coil tends to cancel out the advantage). I look forward to our first QSO. 73 Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16755 invoked from network); 14 Sep 1999 20:57:48 +0100 Received: from cask.force9.net (195.166.128.29) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Sep 1999 20:57:48 +0100 Received: (qmail 22906 invoked from network); 14 Sep 1999 19:57:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Sep 1999 19:57:50 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11QyJd-0003IV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:32:33 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from premium.inrete.it ([194.116.9.4] helo=mailer.inrete.it ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11QyJb-0003IQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:32:32 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from cel266 (pool17-140.dialup.alpcom.it [194.116.17.140]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA24148 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:32:16 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990914202520.008d3d40@mailer.inrete.it> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:25:20 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: growing interest - Group wisdom In-reply-to: <37DDF351.C0D362AE@cableol.co.uk> References: <01befd4e$319e7fe0$LocalHost@rd> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 08.03 14/09/99 +0100, Steve GW4ALG wrote: > >On several occasions I have found myself having to re-learn and extend >my knowledge of basic radio theory. The contributors to this LF >reflector have helped significantly in improving my understanding why >some things work, and why others don't. > This is the best contribution of this reflector. Many people (me, by sure) started in LF with a certain idea about how the RF things work, and concluded with a totally different one! Let rememeber, by instance, the discussion about the Luxembourg effect one year ago (thanks again, N4ICK and all others). The group wisdom is invaluable in this aspect. Now that the winter season is approaching and the possible DX times come, may I ask the group (and expecially our USA and VE friends) for a positive identification of the 'mystery' signal on 137 kHz at night? I am still not sure that it comes from Canadian Navy, Halifax. Is any OM close enough to H'fax to confirm or deny this? or to take a bearing? I will start to monitor the signal using ON4UN's software by next nights. The approximative bearing from Torino (N-W Italy) is 290-300 degrees. 73 - Marco IK1ODO spin@inrete.it Rivalta, ITALY JN35SA (N 45 01' 25.6", E 7 31' 09.4") From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29666 invoked from network); 14 Sep 1999 22:31:08 +0100 Received: from cask.force9.net (195.166.128.29) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Sep 1999 22:31:08 +0100 Received: (qmail 3984 invoked from network); 14 Sep 1999 21:31:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Sep 1999 21:31:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Qzpg-00042u-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:09:44 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Qzpf-000407-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:09:43 +0100 Received: from [203.96.108.9] by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990914211102.YLFY2478302.mta2-rme@[203.96.108.9]> for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:11:02 +1200 Message-ID: <37DEAD1E.3A5@xtra.co.nz> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:16:30 +1200 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Advice on Antenna. References: <000e01befe88$3e764be0$572e883e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Des Kostryca wrote: snip snip > Thanks in advance and I look > forward to working some of you on L.F. in the near future. That would be very nice :) Cheers, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28584 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1999 03:23:37 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Sep 1999 03:23:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 19851 invoked from network); 14 Sep 1999 21:29:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Sep 1999 21:29:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11QzpZ-00041G-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:09:37 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11QzpX-000406-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:09:35 +0100 Received: from [203.96.108.9] by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990914211053.YLEG2478302.mta2-rme@[203.96.108.9]> for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:10:53 +1200 Message-ID: <37DEA9DD.62B8@xtra.co.nz> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:02:37 +1200 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Advice on Antenna. References: <3.0.1.16.19990914095618.30d79f90@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > > Hi Des, > > In his mail Geri, DK8KW, has given a very good description of what to do. > I would like just to add 2 options : > > 1. If it is mechanically possible you might gain some dB's by placing the > loading coil (or at least a part of it) at the top of the vertical section. > Especially with a rather small top-hat as you described this will increase > the effeciency of the antenna. I believe that G3XDV has some experience > with it. True in theory but often difficult mechanically. The lower the loss in a given loading coil, the bigger and heavier it generally becomes. Some of the dBs can be "won back" by having a very well designed loading coil in a conventional ground mounted enclosure. Observations of aeronautical non-directional beacon (NDB) T antennas generally shows that none use loading coils "up in the air". > 2. Having several parallel wires in the top-hat will increase the antenna > capacitance and is in some cases mechanicaly simple to implement. I use an > inverted-L antenna with a 13m high vertical section and a 26m long > horizontal section that consists of 4 parallel wires each 0.8m separated. Spacing at 0.8 metres is a good choice. Proximity effect progressively reduces effectiveness of parallel spaced wires as they are brought closer together. When wires are very close, they are similar in capacitance to ground as one fatter wire! For top loading, the "first wire in" is always the most effective, but suitably spaced parallel top loading wires would probably improve every T or inverted-L antenna at LF. I have intended to try a further variant, using a "second droopy wire" below each existing top loading wire, and terminating on the same insulators. This seems to be a "cheap and easy" method. If a second wire is a few centimetres longer, it will naturally droop below the first one. This would reduce the effective height above ground, so there could be a trade-off between moderately higher capacitance but at moderately lower effective height. As the first wire takes most of the tension, the second wire could be a thinner one. It could also tangle with the first wire in windy conditions! But as I said, I have not yet trialed this idea, so I can not say it is proved to be worth doing. Regards, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22553 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1999 09:34:24 +0100 Received: from cask.force9.net (195.166.128.29) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Sep 1999 09:34:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 12208 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1999 08:34:26 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Sep 1999 08:34:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RA3V-0000Ve-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:04:41 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hermes.iol.cz ([194.228.2.36]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RA3T-0000VZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:04:40 +0100 Received: from lasvegas.GMCCZ ([194.228.133.13]) by hermes.iol.cz (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 631-60961U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id cz for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:04:00 +0200 Received: by LASVEGAS with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) id ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:02:36 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: From: "Petr Maly" To: "'136'" Subject: LF: Distance reckoning? Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:02:34 +0200 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LowFers, now, when I am on the air again, I would like to reckon the distance of my QSOs. Could anybody recommend a free utility for counting distances? I suppose input of of both locations should be in LOCATOR format, output in kilometers. BTW this morning I received packet message of another OK station interested in LF. I am doing my best to promote LF in OK land. I hope there will be at least few stations in OK land QRV on LF soon. 73! Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5025 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1999 10:34:23 +0100 Received: from cask.force9.net (195.166.128.29) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Sep 1999 10:34:23 +0100 Received: (qmail 2310 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1999 09:34:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Sep 1999 09:34:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RBCS-00016U-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:18:00 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RBCN-00013Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:17:55 +0100 Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id FAA09058; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 05:24:33 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA05032; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 05:16:46 -0400 Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by umrsvr.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA32107; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 05:14:52 -0400 Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:09:24 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Soegiono, Gamal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: AW: Distance reckoning? Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:09:23 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Dear Petr, PM> Could anybody recommend a free utility for PM> counting distances? I suppose input of PM> of both locations should be in LOCATOR PM> format, output in kilometers. Hmm - sorry I am not aware of such a specialized tool - but... that's the way I do it, alternatively: Perhaps you own a HF propagation prediction program already. I am using VOA-CAP which is free (as far as I know). Most such propagation programs hold a file containing all the global coordinate information for locations (transmitter, receiver). There I enter the callsign of the QSO partner and the numerical global coordinates. If I know the maidenhead locator description, I derive the global coordinates therefrom manually. Knowing that each fine-field of the maidenhead locator desigantes a field 5 by 2.5 angular minutes in size I simply take the field's mid-coordinate and put it into the file holding the coordinates info. By starting the propagation calculation all programs calculate distance as well as bearing infos. That's it. PM> BTW this morning I received packet message of PM> another OK station interested in LF. I am doing PM> my best to promote LF in OK land. I hope there PM> will be at least few stations in OK land QRV on LF soon. Please do that Petr, the more stations become active on LF in your country the more activity will arise. Best 73 de Gamal From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4685 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1999 12:02:33 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Sep 1999 12:02:33 +0100 Received: (qmail 17253 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1999 11:00:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Sep 1999 11:00:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RCeG-0001nc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:50:48 +0100 Received: from tk1.ihug.co.nz ([203.29.160.13] helo=smtp1.ihug.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RCeE-0001nX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:50:46 +0100 Received: from test (p14-max2.chc.ihug.co.nz [207.214.13.14]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA18014 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:50:38 +1200 Message-ID: <00f301beff68$39cefa20$0200a8c0@test> From: "Dave Brown" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: Distance reckoning? Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:51:09 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Petr & others. Check out this URL for distance reckoning. www.qsl.net/lc3hat/qrbqte/ Basically all you could want, I think! 73 Dave ZL3FJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16143 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1999 18:48:51 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Sep 1999 18:48:51 +0100 Received: (qmail 1760 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1999 17:52:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Sep 1999 17:52:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RIcI-0004jt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:13:10 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.31] (helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RIcF-0004jo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:13:07 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.150.53]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA5F50; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:13:00 +0200 Message-ID: <000d01beff9e$9ff064c0$3596b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Cc: "Koos Fockens, PA0KDF" Subject: LF: LF-antenna with top load Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:19:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All
 
As there has been some discussion on the merits of different kinds of top
loading I have performed some computer simulation, using the Antenna Optimizer program by Brian Beezley, K6STI, which is similar to EZNEC.
 
The program computes the impedance in the feed point over a perfect ground. This means that in the real world the radiation resistance will be somewhat different, but for comparison purposes (what is better, what is worse) the computed values can be used very well. 
 
The loss due to the resistance of the wires is taken into account and efficiency is calculated as the radiation resistance divided by the total resistance (radiation resistance + ohmic loss in the wire). In the real situation the loss in the loading coil and the earth resistance have to be added.
 
The goal is of course to make the radiation resistance as high as possible. A large capacitance helps as well because the loading coil -  and thus its loss (X/Q) -  becomes smaller. But in the majority of cases the earth resistance forms the largest
component of the total resistance so the effect of the smaller loss in the coil is diluted by the unchanged earth resistance.
 
As many amateurs seem to be restricted to a height of about 10 metres I have used a vertical radiator of 10 m for all cases. The antenna is fed at the bottom of the radiator.
I assumed the vertical part and top loading wires to be made of 1.5 mm copper wire (16 SWG).
 
1. No top load
 
Z = 0.073 - j 17792 (ohm)
 
Efficiency: 10.8%
 
Rs: 7.8 milli-ohm
 
C: 65.2 pF
 
 
2. One horizontal top load wire of 5 m
 
Z = 0.111 - j 12550
 
Efficiency: 12.5%
 
Rs: 13.9 milli-ohm
 
C: 92.5 pF
 
 
3. One top loading wire of 5 m, sloping down under 45 degrees
 
Z = 0.108 - j 12993 
 
Efficiency: 10.4%
 
Rs: 11.2 milli-ohm
 
C: 89.3 pF
 
 
4. One horizontal top loading wire of 10 m
 
Z = 0.148 - j 9659
 
Efficiency: 11.9%
 
Rs: 17.6 milli-ohm
 
C: 120 pF
 
 
5. One top loading wire of 10 m, sloping down under 45 degrees
 
Z = 0.142 - j 9898 
 
Efficiency: 7.0%
 
Rs: 9.94 milli-ohm
 
C: 117 pF
 
 
6. One horizontal top loading wire of 20 m
 
Z = 0.221 - j 6626
 
Efficiency: 10.0%
 
Rs: 22.1 milli-ohm
 
C: 175 pF
 
 
7. Two horizontal top loading wires of 5 m  (T-antenna)
 
Z = 0.133 - j 9914
 
Efficiency: 13.1%
 
Rs: 17.4 milli-ohm
 
C: 117 pF
 
 
8. Two top loading wires of 5 m, sloping down under 45 degrees
 
Z = 0.127 - j 10466
 
Efficiency: 10.4%
 
Rs: 13.2 milli-ohm
 
C: 111 pF
 
 
9. Two horizontal top loading wires of 10 m (T-antenna)
 
Z = 0.173 - 6793
 
Efficiency: 12.7%
 
Rs: 22.0 milli-ohm
 
C: 171 pF
 
 
10. Two top loading wires of 10 m, sloping down under 45 degrees
 
Z = 0.163 - j 6987
 
Efficiency: 6.5%
 
Rs: 10.6 milli-ohm
 
C: 166 pF
 
 
11. Two horizontal top loading wires of 20 m (T-antenna)
 
Z = 0.230 - j 4142
 
Efficiency: 11.3%
 
Rs: 26.0 milli-ohm
 
C: 280 pF
 
 
12. Four horizontal top loading wires of 5 m (90 degrees between wires in horizontal plane)
 
Z = 0.156 - j 7394
 
Efficiency: 13.7%
 
Rs: 21.4 milli-ohm
 
C: 157 pF
 
 
13. Four top loading wires of 5 m, sloping down under 45 degrees
 
Z = 0.147 - j 7948
 
Efficiency: 10.1%
 
Rs: 14.9 milli-ohm
 
C: 146 pF
 
 
14. Four horizontal top loading wires of 10 m
 
Z = 0.193 - j 4529
 
Efficiency: 13.4%
 
Rs: 25.9 milli-ohm
 
C: 256 pF
 
 
15. Four top loading wires of 10 m, sloping down under 45 degrees
 
Z = 0.180 - j 4689
 
Efficiency: 6.0%
 
Rs: 10.8 milli-ohm
 
C: 247 pF
 
 
16. Four horizontal toploading wires of 20 m (T-antenna)
 
Z = 0.232 - j 2493
 
Efficiency: 12.5%
 
Rs: 29 milli-ohm
 
C: 466 pF
 
 
The detrimental effect of downward sloping wires is evident, especially when the ends come near the ground (cases 5, 10 and 15).
 
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
 
D.W. Rollema
V.D. Marckstraat 5
2352 RA Leiderdorp
The Netherlands
Tel. +31 71 589 27 34
 
 
 
 
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17192 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1999 06:55:56 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 06:55:56 +0100 Received: (qmail 2067 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1999 06:00:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 06:00:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RU7G-00023Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:29:54 +0100 Received: from dh-img-rel-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.132] helo=hpdmraaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RU7F-00023T-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:29:53 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpdmraaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-REL-1.2) id BAA25800 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 01:29:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave (host62-6-127-140.host.btclick.com [62.6.127.140]) by hpdmraaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-REL-1.2) with SMTP id BAA25771 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 01:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000001bf0004$433fff40$8c7f063e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Distance calculating Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:22:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Further to other suggestions for programs for calculating distances. I use the VHF contest logging package written by G0GJV and available at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mjgoodey/ Although primarily a program written for contest entrants, it includes an excellent feature to calculate distances and bearings from any combination of Maidenhead, Lat/Long and (for the UK) National Grid Reference. You have to set up a dummy contest with your own QTH locator details. The program (as Mike insists on telling me) is totally free. By the way I have just returned from Alderney (GU) where my brother lives. I had no gear of any sort for 136 with me so was not able to even check for the level of Loran. However no trace of it could be detected anywhere on long wave including Droitwich so possibly it is not as bad as feared. A transmit operation would need some preparation, as without sending gear in advance it would have to either fit in a 15kg luggage allowance or be small enough to be hand carried on the twice weekly jet foil service - or I expect a private boat could be hired... 73s Dave G3YMC sergeantd@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12882 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1999 08:59:53 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 08:59:53 +0100 Received: (qmail 27285 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1999 07:57:44 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 07:57:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RWI0-00036i-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:49:08 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from pc1.telecom.cz ([194.228.2.40] helo=hermes.iol.cz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RWHz-00034e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:49:07 +0100 Received: from lasvegas.GMCCZ ([194.228.133.12]) by hermes.iol.cz (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 631-60961U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id cz for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:48:26 +0200 Received: by LASVEGAS with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) id ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:47:06 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: From: "Petr Maly" To: "'136'" Subject: LF: Distance record? Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:47:05 +0200 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LowFers, thanks all for sending me distance reckoning utilities. Now I have pretty varied collection of them. What a nice thing the reflector is. One question more. Does anyone keep list of records on LF on his WWW pages? Wouldn't it be another distance record to make Slow-CW QSO between G and OK? If it is so, shouldn't we try it? I cannot go to the cottage during winter so there is not much time remaining this year. 73! Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6798 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1999 11:47:19 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 11:47:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 21774 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1999 10:45:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 10:45:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RYtp-0004OK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:36:21 +0100 Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RYto-0004OF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:36:20 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #34) id 11RZmk-0000ld-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:33:06 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:22:39 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:22:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: LF-antenna with top load In-reply-to: <000d01beff9e$9ff064c0$3596b38f@w8k3f0> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: PA0SE wrote: > As there has been some discussion on the merits of different kinds of top > loading I have performed some computer simulation, using the Antenna > Optimizer program by Brian Beezley, K6STI, which is similar to EZNEC. > > 1. No top load > Efficiency: 10.8% > 2. One horizontal top load wire of 5 m Efficiency: 12.5% > > 4. One horizontal top loading wire of 10 m Efficiency: 11.9% > 6. One horizontal top loading wire of 20 m > Efficiency: 10.0% Dick, There's something wrong here isn't there?. You have a reducing efficiency for increasing top load length. Surely that can't be right. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 41 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1999 13:02:44 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 13:02:44 +0100 Received: (qmail 168 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1999 12:00:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 12:00:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RZv1-0004sQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:41:39 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.32] (helo=Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RZux-0004sK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:41:36 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.150.141]) by Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA4A50; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:41:23 +0200 Message-ID: <004f01bf0039$7741cc80$7497b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Cc: "Ger van Went, PA0GER" , "Koos Fockens, PA0KDF" Subject: LF: LF-antenna with top load 2 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:48:12 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
                  
To All
 
Further to my report by e-mail of 15 Sept. 1919 hrs I have also simulated by means of a computer program top loads consisting of multiple parallel wires with spacings of 0.5; 1.0; 1.5 and 2.0 m. All wires are of 1.5 mm copper (16 SWG).
The vertical radiator is again 10 m long and the parallel top loading wires are horizontal and 20 m long (inverted L antenna). The first report shows that the characteristics of T- and inverted L-antennas with horizontal tops of the same size are almost identical. So it seems reasonable to assume that the results given in this report for 20 m long multiple parallel wires as top load are applicable to both inverted L and T-antennas.
 
Finally the influence of increasing the height of the antenna from 10 to 15 and 20 metres has been investigated.
 
 
Number of             Spacing between      Rs            C
top load wires        between wires (m)    milli-ohm     pF
 
   1                          -               22             176  
 
 
   2                          0.5               24.9           236
 
   2                          1.0               25.2           247
 
   2                          1.5               25.5           255
 
   2                          2.0               25.7           261
 
 
   3                          0.5               26.1           280
 
   3                          1.0               26.8           304
 
   3                          1.5               27.1           321
 
   3                          2.0               27.3           335
 
 
   4                          0.5               27.1           316
 
   4                          1.0               27.6           353
 
   4                          1.5               28.0           381
 
   4                          2.0               28.2           403
 
 
One horizontal top load wire of 20 m
 
Height (m) of        Rs              C  
vertical radiator    milli-ohm       pF
 
       10               22               176
 
       15               43.7             200
 
       20               70.7             225     
 
 
Four horizontal parallel top load wires of 20 m long and 2 m spacing
 
        10              28.2             403
 
        15              59.3             411
 
        20              99               427
 
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
 
D.W. Rollema
V.d. Marckstraat 5
2352 RA Leiderdorp
Tel. +31 71 589 27 34
E-mail: d.w.rollema@gironet.nl             
 
 
 
 
 
     
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1263 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1999 13:06:21 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 13:06:21 +0100 Received: (qmail 26571 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1999 12:10:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 12:10:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Ra8C-00050Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:55:16 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.32] (helo=Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Ra8B-00050T-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:55:15 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.151.38]) by Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA523A for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:55:10 +0200 Message-ID: <005a01bf003b$63e6be00$7497b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: LF-antenna with top load Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:01:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike, G3XDV wrote: > 1. No top load > Efficiency: 10.8% > 2. One horizontal top load wire of 5 m Efficiency: 12.5% > > 4. One horizontal top loading wire of 10 m Efficiency: 11.9% > 6. One horizontal top loading wire of 20 m > Efficiency: 10.0% Dick, There's something wrong here isn't there?. You have a reducing efficiency for increasing top load length. Surely that can't be right. Yes, I agree it looks strange. But it results from the way efficiency is calculated: radiation resistance divided by the sum of radiation and loss resistance. When the loss resistance increases more than the radiation resistance efficiency goes down. In the real world the actual efficiency will certaily get better as the small increase of wire loss is almost swamped by the total resistance of the system: earth loss + coil loss + wire loss. What really matters is the increase of Rs. It is better to ignore the efficiency figures; I used them only to calculate Rs from the real part in Z = R + jX 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5593 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1999 15:04:57 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 15:04:57 +0100 Received: (qmail 12585 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1999 14:09:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 14:09:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Rbwb-0005vJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:51:25 +0100 Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Rbwa-0005vE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:51:25 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:48:40 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de ([194.94.166.130]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA13814 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:49:04 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <37E0F3C2.DDB72298@nephro.uni-kiel.de> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:42:26 +0200 From: "P. W. Schnoor" Organization: Clinic of Nephrology, University of Kiel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586) X-Accept-Language: de, en To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: LF-antenna with top load References: <005a01bf003b$63e6be00$7497b38f@w8k3f0> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Group, ***************************** If possible please avoid HTML coding or system/mailer specific attachments! ***************************** Hi Dick, Thank you for information! Will check those geometries with ELNEC for comparison soon... Dick Rollema wrote: > I used them only to calculate > Rs from the real part in > Z = R + jX Setting wire loss to zero (no copper or else) during simulation run would give you "Rs" I guess. 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8110 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1999 18:42:45 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 18:42:45 +0100 Received: (qmail 21724 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1999 17:40:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 17:40:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Rf6e-0007ZI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:14:00 +0100 Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Rf6c-0007ZD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:13:59 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:13:09 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de (PC10852.dial.uni-kiel.de [134.245.108.52]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA26183 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:13:26 +0200 (MET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37E1250D.69B2AD45@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:12:45 +0200 From: "Peter W. Schnoor" Organization: University of Kiel, Clinic of Nephrology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: LF-antenna with top load References: <000d01beff9e$9ff064c0$3596b38f@w8k3f0> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Group, Hi Dick, Question to PA0SE: Dick, did you choose 1.5mm of diameter or radius? Some programs are using "radius" other "diameter"... Here are the results from simulations with MININEC algorithms. Ground: 0.005 S/m, 13 (dielectric const.) Diameter of all wires: 1.5 mm (copper and 0 for Rs) Max error of wire lengths: <1% Length of vertical section: 10m Lengths of segments: 1m ("pulses" for specialists...) I'm including the maximum gain as the program reports at "x-direction" (g in dBi) and some of Dick's results for comparison (">..."). > 1. No top load > Z = 0.073 - j 17792 (ohm) z = 0.0824 - j17761 g = -6.6 dB > Rs: 7.8 milli-ohm Rs = 0.0079 Ohms > 2. One horizontal top load wire of 5 m > Z = 0.111 - j 12550 z = 0.1244 - j12533 g =-6.0 dB > Rs: 13.9 milli-ohm Rs = 0.00138 Ohms > 3. One top loading wire of 5 m, sloping down under 45 degrees > Z = 0.108 - j 12993 z = 0.1195 - j12945 g = -6.7 dB > Rs: 11.2 milli-ohm Rs = 0.0111 Ohms > 4. One horizontal top loading wire of 10 m > Z = 0.148 - j 9659 z = 0.1663 - j9645 g = -6.1 dB > Rs: 17.6 milli-ohm Rs = 0.0176 Ohms > 5. One top loading wire of 10 m, sloping down under 45 degrees > Z = 0.142 - j 9898 z = 0.1584 - j9896 g = -8.3 dB > Rs: 9.94 milli-ohm Rs = 0.01 Ohms > 6. One horizontal top loading wire of 20 m > Z = 0.221 - j 6626 z = 0.2479 - j6602 g = -6.7 > Rs: 22.1 milli-ohm Rs = 0.022 Ohms > 7. Two horizontal top loading wires of 5 m (T-antenna) > Z = 0.133 - j 9914 z = 0.1491 - j9903 g = -5.7 > Rs: 17.4 milli-ohm Rs = 0.0174 Ohms > 8. Two top loading wires of 5 m, sloping down under 45 degrees > Z = 0.127 - j 10466 z = 0.1420 - j10430 g = -6.8 > Rs: 13.2 milli-ohm Rs = 0.013 Ohms > 9. Two horizontal top loading wires of 10 m (T-antenna) > Z = 0.173 - 6793 z = 0.1948 - j6786 g = -5.9 > Rs: 22.0 milli-ohm Rs = 0.0219 Ohms > 10. Two top loading wires of 10 m, sloping down under 45 degrees > Z = 0.163 - j 6987 z = 0.1843 - j7027 g = -8.8 > Rs: 10.6 milli-ohm Rs = 0.0107 Ohms > 11. Two horizontal top loading wires of 20 m (T-antenna) > Z = 0.230 - j 4142 z = 0.2593 - j4138 g = -6.4 > Rs: 26.0 milli-ohm Rs = 0.0261 Ohms > 12. Four horizontal top loading wires of 5 m (90 degrees between wires in horizontal plane) > Z = 0.156 - j 7394 z = 0.1748 - j7386 g = -5.6 > Rs: 21.4 milli-ohm Rs = 0.0212 Ohms > 13. Four top loading wires of 5 m, sloping down under 45 degrees > Z = 0.147 - j 7948 z = 0.1654 - j7985 g = -6.9 > Rs: 14.9 milli-ohm Rs = 0.0148 Ohms > 14. Four horizontal top loading wires of 10 m > Z = 0.193 - j 4529 z = 0.2165 - j4524 g = -5.7 > Rs: 25.9 milli-ohm Rs = 0.0257 Ohms > 15. Four top loading wires of 10 m, sloping down under 45 degrees > Z = 0.180 - j 4689 z = 0.2035 -j4726 g = -9.1 > Rs: 10.8 milli-ohm Rs = 0.0109 Ohms > 16. Four horizontal toploading wires of 20 m (T-antenna) > Z = 0.232 - j 2493 z = 0.2613 - j2492 g = -6 > Rs: 29 milli-ohm Rs = 0.0289 Ohms O.K. Lots of numbers... 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17148 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1999 19:18:34 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 19:18:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 27667 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1999 18:16:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 18:16:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RfrH-0007vS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:02:11 +0100 Received: from smtp.mail.big-orange.net ([143.179.236.31] helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RfrG-0007vN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:02:10 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.151.46]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAABD4; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:02:00 +0200 Message-ID: <002601bf006e$a43c96e0$2e97b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Cc: "Koos Fockens, PA0KDF" , "Ger van Went, PA0GER" Subject: Fw: LF: LF-antenna with top load Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:08:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All, As a answer to a question by Mike, G3XDV, I have sent the following e-mail to the reflector: >Mike, G3XDV wrote: > > >> 1. No top load >> Efficiency: 10.8% > >> 2. One horizontal top load wire of 5 m > Efficiency: 12.5% >> > >> 4. One horizontal top loading wire of 10 m >Efficiency: 11.9% > >> 6. One horizontal top loading wire of 20 m >> Efficiency: 10.0% > > >Dick, > >There's something wrong here isn't there?. You have a reducing >efficiency for increasing top load length. Surely that can't be right. I replied: >Yes, I agree it looks strange. But it results from the way efficiency is >calculated: radiation resistance divided by the sum of radiation and loss >resistance. When the loss resistance increases more than the radiation >resistance efficiency goes down. In the real world the actual efficiency >will certaily get better as the small increase of wire loss is almost >swamped by the total resistance of the system: earth loss + coil loss + >wire loss. >What really matters is the increase of Rs. > >It is better to ignore the efficiency figures; I used them only to calculate >Rs from the real part in >Z = R + jX After sending the e-mail I realised I should have explained why I mentioned efficiency at all if it was better ignored. The reason is that the computer program does not produce radiation resistance directly. What comes out of the machine is Z = R + jX for an antenna over perfect ground, plus the efficiency. The only loss involved is then due to the resistance of the antenna wires, so R = wire resistance + radiation resistance. >From this follows: Efficiency = {Radiation resistance/(wire resistance + radiation resistance)} x 100%. So I needed the efficiency to calculate the radiation resistance. Peter, DF3LP, in his e-mail suggested to set the wire resistance to zero so directly obtaining Rs. But my program AO does not allow that; one has to insert the material the wires are made of. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23226 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1999 23:48:17 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 23:48:17 +0100 Received: (qmail 22982 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1999 22:52:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 22:52:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Rk3V-0001Uh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:31:05 +0100 Received: from tantalum.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.80]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Rk3U-0001Uc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:31:04 +0100 Received: from [212.140.6.170] (helo=default) by tantalum.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11Rk3M-0006un-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:30:57 +0100 Message-ID: <004701bf0092$9bd02d40$6801063e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Dick & Peter's simulations Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:22:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi thanks for a fascinating and instructive discussion, it is surprising at first just how close Peter and Dick's results are. I suppose on reflection the methodology is the same in both programs, one might expect similar answers. It probably says more about the accuracy, rounding errors and such, in the calculations. I must admit I like simulations, even if they don't yield the right (practical) answers, they do give you a good handle on the 'way things move'. I started a long time ago simulating dopant diffusion in transistors on a hand cranked calculator. The accuracy was about +/- 100% because as it turned out,the diffusion parameters were not known accurately enough. If I'd been a bit cleverer at maths I wouldn't have needed to use the numerical approach....but it was a lot more interesting seeing the numbers, and getting a 'feel' for their significance. I am now waiting to hear the practical side of the 'T' antenna story!! One thing that seems to leap out from Dick's figures is that there is not a lot to be gained by spacing multiple wires by more than 0.5 m. Interestingly the improvement in going for 4 top wires of 5m is the same as 2 of 10m (about 50%). The percentage gain is the same at either 10m or 20m height. So its the total length of wire you can support in the sky nearly horizontal that is important. Confirming the descriptions of antennas that note the total length of wire used. I have wondered whether using a antenna system like Steve (GW4ALG) has, it would be of any benefit to build a small capacity load with very light stiff wire ('piano' wire) say 2m in diameter with a few spokes. (Would this be the same as a single 6m flat top?) As it is at a voltage point the resistance of the wire won't matter too much and it would probably also act as an 'anti corona' device as well. Of course this thin stiff wire would not yield as high a capacitance to ground. I could see Steve having difficulty controlling something like this in a wind though. As I read ( and probably extrapolate incorrectly) Dick's results, the effect of this small a 'capacity hat' on top of a 20m vertical should produce an increase in Rs of 60%!! That's assuming Steve doesn't already use a metalised balloon! If it works this might be on as a top-load for the verticals made with those thin whippy fibreglass tubes. On a slightly different tack, the effects of nearby trees adding loss has been described. Has anyone any idea how far away one needs to be to reduce the effect the a manageable level. I assume it is a near field effect so will fall of fairly rapidly with increased spacing? For instance I have 5m fruit trees under the proposed 13m high top. Is that a problem or do I need to do some radical 'pruning' this winter. I presume the vertical section should be at least its own height away from buildings, masts etc. but is a smaller spacing workable? I suppose these questions have been answered before, but I dont mind standing up as the dunce and asking the silly questions again. These are the sort of questions the simulations won't answer but our rapidly increasing fund of practical experience soon will. Great Stuff....cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9961 invoked from network); 17 Sep 1999 01:21:24 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 17 Sep 1999 01:21:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 6763 invoked from network); 17 Sep 1999 00:25:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Sep 1999 00:25:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Rldc-0002PP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 01:12:28 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com ([198.81.17.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RldY-0002OI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 01:12:24 +0100 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id lDQFa12557 (7989) for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:11:50 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:11:50 EDT Subject: Re: Fw: LF: LF-antenna with top load To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 134 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 9/16/99 7:13:33 GMT Daylight Time, d.w.rollema@gironet.nl writes: << To All, As a answer to a question by Mike, G3XDV, I have sent the following e-mail to the reflector: >Mike, G3XDV wrote: > > >> 1. No top load >> Efficiency: 10.8% >> Hello Dick / group. I recently installed a small broadcast transmitter on 1350kHz which was licenced for a maximum antenna height of 10m. After some time we managed to get a 10m glassfibre mast errected with a small top capacity hat, inductive loading at the centre (Litz), together with an element of distributed loading in the top section between the loading coil and the top hat. When examined by the authorities the efficiency was around 7%. A rough calculation would suggest that the Rrad of a 10m vertical is no greater than 0.1R, on 136k. The computers perfect ground assumption could be affecting the ability to compare the effects of different arrangements for top loading. Is it EZNEC which has poor / Avg / good / perfect / ground models? 73 David. G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17106 invoked from network); 17 Sep 1999 06:43:59 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 17 Sep 1999 06:43:59 +0100 Received: (qmail 4278 invoked from network); 17 Sep 1999 05:48:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Sep 1999 05:48:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RqSW-0004kX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 06:21:20 +0100 Received: from ah-img-rel-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.152] helo=hpamraaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RqSV-0004kQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 06:21:19 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamraaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-REL-1.2) id BAA11822 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 01:20:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave (mfs-pci-bqe-vty4.as.wcom.net [212.211.0.4]) by hpamraaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-REL-1.2) with SMTP id BAA11777 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 01:20:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000201bf00cc$3bb96f40$0400d3d4@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: Subject: LF: Re: former/future usage of german LF frequencies Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:01:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Having read in more detail the German original of the proposal to allocate various LF frequencies to the pager service I note the following. The questionaire appears directed at potential users of these frequencies for pager services - ie there may be several networks operating independantly. It implies however that one individual network will use a single transmitter designed to cover the whole of Germany. On that basis it would also be quite strong in most of the rest of western Europe. The modulation is data in a 500Hz bandwidth, time multiplexed, and presumably is fairly similar to DCF39. The notes point out that the 136.8 frequency is already allocated on a primary basis in countries outside DL, and any allocation must not cause interference to these. Perhaps there are even more transmitters liable to appear unannounced on it! Closing date for comments on the proposals is October 1st. Perhaps some input from the DARC and RSGB would be appropriate before that date - but it is not long! There is no indication of when the formal allocations would be made or when transmissions would commence. It would be unfortunate if the 136.8 transmitter came on, but in reality there is probably little we can do about it in a shared band. 73s Dave G3YMC sergeantd@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21911 invoked from network); 17 Sep 1999 09:50:24 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 17 Sep 1999 09:50:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 23238 invoked from network); 17 Sep 1999 08:54:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Sep 1999 08:54:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RtYz-0006Ds-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:40:13 +0100 Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RtYy-0006Dn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:40:12 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #34) id 11RuRu-0003gS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:36:59 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:33:43 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:33:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Dick & Peter's simulations In-reply-to: <004701bf0092$9bd02d40$6801063e@default> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A really interesting discussion, and some useful data, though as with all computer simulations it is vital to include some practical knowledge so as not to be misled by the results. Thanks, Dick and Peter for your work. G3NYK wrote: I presume the vertical > section should be at least its own height away from buildings, masts etc. > but is a smaller spacing workable? You are probably right, but for practical reasons my vertical section is 1m from the house. All I can say is that it works, despite the effects of electrical wiring and water pipes. Some 5m is above the house and this may help. I have run a similar arangement portable and in the clear without a massive improvement. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22980 invoked from network); 17 Sep 1999 13:20:35 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 17 Sep 1999 13:20:35 +0100 Received: (qmail 29733 invoked from network); 17 Sep 1999 12:18:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Sep 1999 12:18:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Rwpa-0007pC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:09:34 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.32] (helo=Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RwpY-0007p6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:09:33 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.150.22]) by Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA6649 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:09:29 +0200 Message-ID: <004201bf0106$90ec4ca0$1696b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: Re: LF: LF-antenna with top load Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:55:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Peter wrote: >Question to PA0SE: Dick, did you choose 1.5mm of diameter or >radius? Some programs are using "radius" other "diameter"... I used diameter. AO requires the material to be put in. I choose copper, for which the program uses a conductivity of 1.7241E-08. >Here are the results from simulations with MININEC >I'm including the maximum gain as the program reports at >"x-direction" (g in dBi) AO also provides gain figures of course but I refrained from including them in my report because they are not applicable to the surface wave by which the majority of contacts on LF are made. If you want to know field strength figures for the surface wave (both E- and H-field) you can use the "near field" option of AO or EZNEZ. As was explained by W7EL on an earlier occasion this in reality computes the sum of the near field and the surface wave. At a distance of 2 wavelength or more from the antenna the near field becomes so weak that for all practical purposes the result of the "near field" computation gives the surface wave. You can check the validity of the results by calculating E/H (E in V/m, H in A/M). The result should be near 120 * pi = 377. The method only gives E and H at selected points, not as a radiation pattern. I am happy that Peter's calculations of Rs agrees very well with mine using AO. However this should not be taken as a proof that the results must be true as both programs use the same algorithm. Refering to the last part of my second report (16.9.99 14.17) it is clear that top loads are hardly a substitute for height. Even raising the antenna from 10 to 15 m increases radiation resistance more than even the largest top load can do. This is easily understood as radiation resistance is proportional to height squared whereas the most a top load can do is doubling the radiation resistance. This also explains the fine signal from Steve, GW4ALG. His helium balloon raises the antenna to 20 m and that gives him a radiation resistance of almost 32 milli-ohm, even without any top load at all! 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23236 invoked from network); 17 Sep 1999 13:21:40 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 17 Sep 1999 13:21:40 +0100 Received: (qmail 29935 invoked from network); 17 Sep 1999 12:19:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Sep 1999 12:19:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Rwpa-0007pI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:09:34 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.32] (helo=Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RwpZ-0007p7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:09:34 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.150.22]) by Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAB6649 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:09:31 +0200 Message-ID: <004301bf0106$91ce2120$1696b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Advice on Antenna. Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:09:02 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From PA0SE to All Bob, ZL2CA. wrote: >> 1. If it is mechanically possible you might gain some dB's by placing the >> loading coil (or at least a part of it) at the top of the vertical section. >> Especially with a rather small top-hat as you described this will increase >> the effeciency of the antenna. I believe that G3XDV has some experience >> with it. > >True in theory but often difficult mechanically. The lower the loss in >a given loading coil, the bigger and heavier it generally becomes. Some >of the dBs can be "won back" by having a very well designed loading coil >in a conventional ground mounted enclosure. Observations of >aeronautical non-directional beacon (NDB) T antennas generally shows >that none use loading coils "up in the air". Henk, PA0HVN, who used to be responsible for the NDB's in the Netherlands, once told me the antenna circuit of these beacons includes a resistor to decrease the Q. Without the resistor detuning of the antenna due to snow or glazed frost would cause unacceptable signal strength variations. It is obvious that in this case there is no point in putting a loading coil high up the antenna. Henk also said that these beacons (in the Netherlands) radiate about 100 milliwatts. As I think the transmitter output is of the order of 50...100 W it shows that in spite of the loss in the resistor these beacons do better than most of us, amateurs. No doubt due to the rather long vertical antenna and a very good earthing system. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11738 invoked from network); 17 Sep 1999 14:24:20 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 17 Sep 1999 14:24:20 +0100 Received: (qmail 1169 invoked from network); 17 Sep 1999 13:28:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Sep 1999 13:28:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Rxjt-0008JY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:07:45 +0100 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Rxjr-0008JT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:07:43 +0100 Received: from modem-6.zoloft.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.95.6] helo=default) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11Rxjo-00087X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:07:41 +0100 From: "Des Kostryca" To: "RSGB LF_Group" Subject: LF: Re:Antenna advice. Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:11:28 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bf0151$35d20bc0$065f883e@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Everyone, Firstly, thankyou to all who responded to my request for antenna advice. The response was very pleasing and very helpful. Geri (DK8KW) wrote... >If you have >access to the internet, have a look at >http://www.dk8kw.home.pages.de, >where I show my set-up and a drawing of a >commercial umbrella antenna from >the past. >The characteristics of that umbrella is, that the top >load is not >necessarily horizontal but the top load radials can >slope down at an angle >of 45 degrees or even steeper. This approach appeals to me as it is simple to implement though due to lack of space my umbrella spokes would be at quite a steep angle and would therefore have to be short. By the way Geri, I liked the cartoons :-) Dave Sergent (G3YMC) wrote... >Good luck with your work on LF and I hope we can >manage a QSO before long. As you may know I use >a loop transmitting antenna on 136 with reasonable >results Thanks Dave, I had a look at your web pages (very interesting) and when my vertical (utility) antenna is up and running I may also give the transmitting loop a try providing I can get hold of some "heavy" cabling in long enough lengths. Steve (GW4ALG) wrote... >I have little doubt about being able to hear your 35 >W to the 10 m vertical. In >addition to weekends, I can get on most weekday >mornings up to 08:45am local >time. That would be great Steve as I am often working on or around the weekend but have plenty of spare time in the week. I will let you know when I am "up and running" and perhaps we can arrange a "sked". Thanks also to Mike Dennison (G3XDV), Bob (ZL2CA) and Rik (ON7YD) for additional comments, most welcome. With all the feedback I now have a clear idea of what to aim for. The current plan is to add turns to my partially constructed loading coil and try the 10 mtr vertical with small "umbrella". Then I will move on to the 10 mtr vertical plus 3 horizontal wires which most seem to agree is the best option. I am currently at the "drilling holes in a plastic dustbin" stage. The only thing stopping me now is the wx, a shortage of patch leads and a "wasps nest" in the loft which means I am unable to retrieve some of my components :-( Still, very close to testing now. Thanks again to all those who took the time to respond and I will keep you all posted on my progress. Look forward to working many of you "on-band" soon. 73's all and good DX, Des. Des Kostryca (M0AYF) G.Q.R.P. no. 9788 I.A.R.U. loc. IO93OJ W.A.B. SK89 Member of the N.B.T.V.A. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13022 invoked from network); 17 Sep 1999 14:27:59 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 17 Sep 1999 14:27:59 +0100 Received: (qmail 3409 invoked from network); 17 Sep 1999 13:32:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Sep 1999 13:32:16 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RxuG-0008Nt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:18:28 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11RxuE-0008No-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:18:27 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA18406 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:24:55 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990917151852.08171c8a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:18:52 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: LF-antenna with top load In-reply-to: <37E1250D.69B2AD45@nephro.uni-kiel.de> References: <000d01beff9e$9ff064c0$3596b38f@w8k3f0> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: For those who do not have acces to antenna-software there is still the possibility to calculate the radiation resistance and the capasitance of the antenna yourself. If a simplified model is taken and you have no 'slooping' tophat,the results are remarkable accurate (compared to MININEC and K6STI-software). The calculations are done in a few simple steps : 1. Calculate the radiation resistance of your antenna if it had no tophat : Rv = 0.0000816 x Lv^2 (Lv = length of the vertical section in metres, Rv = radiation resistance in Ohms) This formula is based on a frequency of 136.75kHz 2. Calculate the capasitance of the vertical and tophat section of your antenna : - vertical section : Cv = 6pF for every meter of wire - tophat section : Ct = 5pF for every meter wire (regardless of shape of tophat). The total antenna capasitance Ca = Cv + Ct. 3. Calculate the average current in the vertical section (with a base-current of '1'). Herefore we assume that in every pF of the antenna capacitance the same ammount of current 'dissapears'. In that case the current at the top of the vertical section equals Ct / Ca and the average current Iav = (Ca + Ct) / (2 x Ca). 4. The radiation resistance of the antenna is proportional to the square of the average current (in the vertical section). For a vertical without tophat the average current is 0.5, so the square of the average current is 0.25 (or 1/4). Therefore the radiation resistance of your antenna (Rs) is : Rs = 4 x Iav^2 x Rv (Rv is calculated in step 1) Below you find a comparisation of the results of the K6STI-software (by PA0SE), MININEC (by DF3LP) and the 'do-it-yourself' calculations. 1. No top load K6STI software (PA0SE) : Rs = 0.0078 Ohm , Ca = 65 pF MININEC (DF3LP) : Rs = 0.0079 Ohm , Ca = 66 pF Own calculations (ON7YD) : Rs = 0.0082 Ohm , Ca = 60 pF 2. One horizontal top load wire of 5 m K6STI software (PA0SE) : Rs = 0.0139 Ohm , Ca = 93 pF MININEC (DF3LP) : Rs = 0.0138 Ohm , Ca = 93 pF Own calculations (ON7YD) : Rs = 0.0137 Ohm , Ca = 85 pF 4. One horizontal top loading wire of 10 m K6STI software (PA0SE) : Rs = 0.0176 Ohm , Ca = 120 pF MININEC (DF3LP) : Rs = 0.0176 Ohm , Ca = 121 pF Own calculations (ON7YD) : Rs = 0.0173 Ohm , Ca = 110 pF 6. One horizontal top loading wire of 20 m K6STI software (PA0SE) : Rs = 0.0221 Ohm , Ca = 175 pF MININEC (DF3LP) : Rs = 0.0220 Ohm , Ca = 176 pF Own calculations (ON7YD) : Rs = 0.0215 Ohm , Ca = 160 pF 7. Two horizontal top loading wires of 5 m (T-antenna) K6STI software (PA0SE) : Rs = 0.0174 Ohm , Ca = 117 pF MININEC (DF3LP) : Rs = 0.0174 Ohm , Ca = 118 pF Own calculations (ON7YD) : Rs = 0.0173 Ohm , Ca = 110 pF 9. Two horizontal top loading wires of 10 m (T-antenna) K6STI software (PA0SE) : Rs = 0.0220 Ohm , Ca = 171 pF MININEC (DF3LP) : Rs = 0.0219 Ohm , Ca = 172 pF Own calculations (ON7YD) : Rs = 0.0215 Ohm , Ca = 160 pF 11. Two horizontal top loading wires of 20 m (T-antenna) K6STI software (PA0SE) : Rs = 0.0260 Ohm , Ca = 280 pF MININEC (DF3LP) : Rs = 0.0261 Ohm , Ca = 281 pF Own calculations (ON7YD) : Rs = 0.0255 Ohm , Ca = 260 pF 12. Four horizontal top loading wires of 5 m (90 degrees between wires in horizontal plane) K6STI software (PA0SE) : Rs = 0.0214 Ohm , Ca = 157 pF MININEC (DF3LP) : Rs = 0.0212 Ohm , Ca = 158 pF Own calculations (ON7YD) : Rs = 0.0215 Ohm , Ca = 160 pF 14. Four horizontal top loading wires of 10 m K6STI software (PA0SE) : Rs = 0.0259 Ohm , Ca = 256 pF MININEC (DF3LP) : Rs = 0.0257 Ohm , Ca = 257 pF Own calculations (ON7YD) : Rs = 0.0255 Ohm , Ca = 260 pF 16. Four horizontal toploading wires of 20 m (T-antenna) K6STI software (PA0SE) : Rs = 0.0290 Ohm , Ca = 466 pF MININEC (DF3LP) : Rs = 0.0289 Ohm , Ca = 467 pF Own calculations (ON7YD) : Rs = 0.0285 Ohm , Ca = 460 pF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13627 invoked from network); 17 Sep 1999 14:30:14 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 17 Sep 1999 14:30:14 +0100 Received: (qmail 11180 invoked from network); 17 Sep 1999 13:28:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Sep 1999 13:28:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Rxu2-0008Nm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:18:14 +0100 Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Rxu2-0008Nh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:18:14 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #34) id 11Rymu-0003x3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:14:57 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:04:33 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:04:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: LF-antenna with top load In-reply-to: <004201bf0106$90ec4ca0$1696b38f@w8k3f0> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: PA0SE wrote: > Refering to the last part of my second report (16.9.99 14.17) it is clear > that top loads are hardly a substitute for height. Even raising the > antenna from 10 to 15 m increases radiation resistance more than even the > largest top load can do. This is easily understood as radiation resistance > is proportional to height squared whereas the most a top load can do is > doubling the radiation resistance. > Ah, but that's EFFECTIVE height squared, and one effect of the top load is to increase effective height by anything from 50% of actual height (no top load) to 100% (quarter-wave top load). Are you really saying that a 15m vertical will outperform a 10m inverted-L with a 1000m top load? Why does a top load only double the radiation resistance? Isn't it a function of total length, whether vertical or horizontal? Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3454 invoked from network); 17 Sep 1999 17:20:26 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 17 Sep 1999 17:20:26 +0100 Received: (qmail 12744 invoked from network); 17 Sep 1999 16:24:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Sep 1999 16:24:44 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11S0Lh-000179-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:54:57 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11S0Lg-00016t-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:54:56 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA09131 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:01:24 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990917175521.2d9f25b0@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:55:21 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: LF-antenna with top load In-reply-to: References: <004201bf0106$90ec4ca0$1696b38f@w8k3f0> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 14:04 17/09/99 +0100, G3XDV wrote: >PA0SE wrote: >> Refering to the last part of my second report (16.9.99 14.17) it is clear >> that top loads are hardly a substitute for height. Even raising the >> antenna from 10 to 15 m increases radiation resistance more than even the >> largest top load can do. This is easily understood as radiation resistance >> is proportional to height squared whereas the most a top load can do is >> doubling the radiation resistance. >> > >Ah, but that's EFFECTIVE height squared, and one effect of the top >load is to increase effective height by anything from 50% of actual >height (no top load) to 100% (quarter-wave top load). Are you really >saying that a 15m vertical will outperform a 10m inverted-L with a >1000m top load? > >Why does a top load only double the radiation resistance? Isn't it a >function of total length, whether vertical or horizontal? > As far as I understand short verticals the radiation resistance depends on : 1. the height of the vertical section 2. the average current through the vertical section Radiation resistance is proportional to the square of the height and to the square of the average current. Adding a tophat to a vertical antenna increases the average current through the vertical section and an 'endless' tophat will double the average current. So a 10m high vertical with an 'endless' tophat will have the same radiation resistance as a 20m high vertical without tophat. eg. in a prviuos mail PA0SE calculates a 10m vertical without topload as 7.8 milli-Ohm (example 1) and a this same 10m vertical with a 4 times 20m tophat as 29 milli-Ohm (example 16). This is close to the 31.2 milli-Ohm (4 x 7.8) that you would get with an 'endless' tophat. As a 'bonus' the tophat will increase the antenna-capacitance, resulting in a smaller loading coil and lower antenna-voltage. The increase of the radiation resistance is large for the first few meters of tophat but the 'gain' decreases fast and the absolute maximum you can get is 6dB. Following table gives the dimension of the tophat (for a 10m vertical) compared to the gain : gain tophat 1dB 1.4m 2dB 3.5m 3dB 7.0m 4dB 14.1m 5dB 35.1m 6dB endless But all the above is only valid as long as both the vertical and tophat section are short compared to the wavelength. In most publications with 'short' is meant less than 5% of the wavelengt (= 110m). This should be always the case with the vertical section (unless you are kiting or ballooning) but some of us might have tophats that are not 'short' and will contribute to the radiation. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28721 invoked from network); 17 Sep 1999 20:56:31 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 17 Sep 1999 20:56:31 +0100 Received: (qmail 24142 invoked from network); 17 Sep 1999 20:00:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Sep 1999 20:00:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11S3uk-0002uJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:43:22 +0100 Received: from mb06.swip.net ([193.12.122.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11S3uj-0002uE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:43:21 +0100 Received: from win95 (d212-151-46-206.swipnet.se [212.151.46.206]) by mb06.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA09373 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:43:17 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000901bf0145$3bcb1780$ce2e97d4@win95.swipnet.se> From: "Christer Andersson" To: "RSGB LF group" Subject: LF: Homepage update Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:45:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Some pictures of my latest antenna project can be found here:
 
25 m vertical with 6 toploading wires, 15 m each.
800 uH loading coil at the top.
The antenna is made of low-cost ventilation tubes.
 
73
Christer, sm6pxj
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20313 invoked from network); 17 Sep 1999 22:25:39 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 17 Sep 1999 22:25:39 +0100 Received: (qmail 17908 invoked from network); 17 Sep 1999 21:23:39 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Sep 1999 21:23:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11S5Jw-0003cs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:13:28 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailhost.zen.co.uk ([212.23.8.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11S5Ju-0003cn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:13:27 +0100 Received: from ns.zen.co.uk (105.locke.zen.co.uk [212.23.16.105]) by mailhost.zen.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA25337 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:13:19 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990917200517.007ccc30@zen.co.uk> X-Sender: alan.gale@zen.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:05:17 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Alan Gale" Subject: LF: [BDXC-UK] More on Data TX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, I thought the following message from the BDXC reflector might be of interest to some of the members on the list: >From: "Tony Hudson" >DX Information from the British DX Club. > >The following from Electronics Weekly September 15th may be of interest. > >INTERNET VIA MAINS IS CUT OFF > >Nortel networks and United Utilities have decided to disband NOR.WEB their >jointly-owned Internet- >over-the-mains company. "The decision has been made to close the the joint >venture even though the technology is robust and well proven", said Kate >Thompson, NOR-WEB's director of marketing programmes. > Launched two years ago, the company developed its digital powerline >technology which used electricity substations to modulate data onto the >mains. This provided homes and businesses connected to the substation with >1Mbit/s links for Internet access > When the company first launched the technology it announced services would >start a year ago. However > deployment of the technology suffered a years delay. The result of the >delay has been increased competion from broadband technologies such as >digital subscriber line (DSL) and cabel modems, and ultimately the >venture's closure. "The projected volumes for digital powerline, with the >roll out of xDSL and cable, are not significant enough," explained >Thompson. > This is despite the successful completion in May of a technology trial in >Manchester involving 70 homes, a school and small businesses. In turn the >technology has also been tested by power utilities in Germany >and Sweden. > No redundancies are expected. There are no plans to use the technology in >other applications. "The two >companies still own the patents but there are no current plans at present," >said Thompson. > >Tony Hudson > >Permission is hereby granted to reproduce the above information, provided that >full credit is given to the original contributor AND to the British DX Club. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Gale G4TMV Location: North-West England. IO83VP Lancs 53:39.3N 2:10.6W. Equipment: Kenwood TS830M + Converters + FL3. W & G SPM-3 G5RV, Wellbrook ALA100 & ALA1530 magnetic Loops. Interests: Beacons, Search & Rescue, Maritime, Scanning, TVDX. Website: Interested in any of the above? If so why not pay a visit to my 'Beacons & Utes' website. Website URL: http://www.zen.co.uk/home/page/alan.gale/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21869 invoked from network); 17 Sep 1999 22:32:41 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 17 Sep 1999 22:32:41 +0100 Received: (qmail 17256 invoked from network); 17 Sep 1999 21:37:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Sep 1999 21:37:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11S5VB-0003h9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:25:05 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11S5VA-0003h4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:25:04 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA22393 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:24:59 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <1999091700002468199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:00:24 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re: EZNEC Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit EZNEC modelling software is capable of modelling the ground influence on antenna feedpoint Impedance and conductor conductivity. By comparing a model with zero conductor resistance and perfect ground with a real world model it can estimate efficiency. From this actual radiated power from the antenna can be determined and was used in the first round of discussions on 'ERP' (about 16 months ago). The results correlated well with measured signal strengths. see page 6.9 of 'The LF Experimenter's Source Book' on Computer Modelling of LF Antennas The best efficiency I was able to get from my antenna was about 400mW radiated (erp?) from a transmitter power of 300W, about 0.13% efficient. Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27590 invoked from network); 18 Sep 1999 06:16:35 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Sep 1999 06:16:35 +0100 Received: (qmail 11104 invoked from network); 18 Sep 1999 05:20:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Sep 1999 05:20:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11SCR3-0007Dy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 05:49:17 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as-img-2.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.145] helo=spamgaab.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11SCR1-0007Dt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 05:49:16 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.6) id AAA00649 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 00:49:11 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 00:48:52 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Re: former/future usage of german LF frequencies To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199909180049_MC2-854C-5F1C@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello friends, Dave G3YMC, wrote >Perhaps some input from the DARC and RSGB would be appropriate before that date - but it is not long!< I have send an e-,ail to DL1VDL, HF Manager of the DARC (Hartmut also was/is active on LF) and informed him about the situation. I did not receive an answer from him yet, so I will give him a call and see what he says. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27710 invoked from network); 18 Sep 1999 06:18:04 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Sep 1999 06:18:04 +0100 Received: (qmail 29223 invoked from network); 18 Sep 1999 05:16:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Sep 1999 05:16:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11SCNZ-0007DZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 05:45:41 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.136] helo=spdmgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11SCNY-0007DU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 05:45:40 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.6) id AAA07820 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 00:45:38 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 00:45:28 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: Re: LF: LF-antenna with top load To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199909180045_MC2-854C-5F0A@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello fellows, first of all thank you Dick and Peter for running all those simulations. Again, I have learned a lot. >Refering to the last part of my second report (16.9.99 14.17) it is clear >that top loads are hardly a substitute for height. Even raising the antenna >from 10 to 15 m increases radiation resistance more than even the largest >top load can do.< This is probably the reason why the early German longwave stations, for example in Nauen (starting in 1906) or Königs-Wusterhausen (1915) or the stations of the OMEGA navigations system on 13 kHz used umbrella antennas. If you compare, what is necessary to build a 10m high antenna with four horizontal radials, you need four supporting poles of equal height (or trees, a house or whatever in the right distance) besides the antenna mast. The umbrella antenna consists of only one vertical mast, and the top load wires can servce as supporting wires as well. So doubling the height of that antenna, you need less material compared but have a much higher efficiency, even with sloping top load wires. By the way, I was able to confirm the theoretical results of Dick's and Peter's simulations when I shortened my top load radials from 20m down to 10m. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18085 invoked from network); 18 Sep 1999 09:15:12 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Sep 1999 09:15:12 +0100 Received: (qmail 18038 invoked from network); 18 Sep 1999 08:19:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Sep 1999 08:19:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11SFWG-00009U-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:06:52 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.31] (helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11SFWF-00009P-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:06:51 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.151.235]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAB625D for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:06:47 +0200 Message-ID: <001601bf01ad$d5b2d460$eb97b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: Fw: LF: LF-antenna with top load Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:13:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From PA0SE Dave, G0MRF, wrote: >I recently installed a small broadcast transmitter on 1350kHz which was >licenced for a maximum antenna height of 10m. > >After some time we managed to get a 10m glassfibre mast errected with a small >top capacity hat, inductive loading at the centre (Litz), together with an >element of distributed loading in the top section between the loading coil >and the top hat. > >When examined by the authorities the efficiency was around 7%. > >A rough calculation would suggest that the Rrad of a 10m vertical is no >greater than 0.1R, on 136k. The computers perfect ground assumption could be >affecting the ability to compare the effects of different arrangements for >top loading. Is it EZNEC which has poor / Avg / good / perfect / ground >models? Dr. Dave, The program AO by Brian Beezley, K6STI, indeed has the option of different type of grounds (dielectric constant and conductivity). But that is only used in computing radiation patterns and gain. And - as mentioned before - these are not even applicable to the surface wave. The impedance in the feed point is computed over perfect ground. I have also the program NEC/WIRES by K6STI and this uses real ground also for feed point impedance computation. But only for antennas that are not fed angainst ground, dipoles etc. So not for Marconi's, inverted L and the like. I do not have EZNEC myself but I think that program can use real ground for feed point impedance calculation of antennas fed against earth. . Perhaps someone familiar with EZNEC can confirm. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4090 invoked from network); 18 Sep 1999 18:44:14 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Sep 1999 18:44:14 +0100 Received: (qmail 14273 invoked from network); 18 Sep 1999 17:42:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Sep 1999 17:42:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11SOEh-0004G6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 18:25:19 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.31] (helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11SOEe-0004G1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 18:25:16 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.150.215]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA106E; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 19:25:04 +0200 Message-ID: <001301bf01fb$d4224ce0$d796b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Cc: "Ger van Went, PA0GER" , "Koos Fockens, PA0KDF" Subject: LF: LF-antennas with top load 3 Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 19:31:54 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All
 
In my report by e-mail of 15 September 1999 19:19 top loads with 0, 1, 2  and 4 wires, both horizontal and sloping down under 45 degrees, were discussed.
 
In report by e-mail of 16 September 1999 13:48 top loads of 2, 3 and 4 parallel horizontal wires were the subject.
 
In this (the last I hope for you ...) report you find the results of computer simulation of a coil between the top end of the vertical radiator and the top load wires.
To limit the number of cases only antennas with top loads of 2 times 5 m, 10 m and 20 m and 4 times 5 m, 10 m and 20 m were modelled. The wires are horizontal.
Also one antenna with 2 x 5 m top load wires drooping down under 45 degrees has been modelled.
For practical reasons a top load coil has to be of limited size.  I have modelled coils of 500, 1000 and 2000 microhenry.
 
In order to present a more useful picture I also included a loading/tuning coil at the bottom end of the radiator. The coil has been chosen so that it resonates  the system. The Q of both coils has been set at 300.  
 
The total loss resistance now includes that of wires and coils and the efficiency becomes
{radiation resistance/(radiation resistance + wire resistance + coil resistances) } * 100%.
 
For the efficiency of the complete antenna system the earth resistance must to be included. But as this adds the same amount to the resistance of wires and coils, in all cases the efficiency as given can be used as a figure of merit.
 Note that this is not the case in the two previous reports because the loading/tuning coil and its loss were not included in the modelling.
 
The vertical part of the antennas is again 10 m long and the wire size is 1.5 mm diameter copper.
 
Number and length     Top coil          Bottom coil    Radiation resistance  Loss resistance  Efficiency
of top loading wires    microhenry    microhenry    milli-ohm                       ohm                         %
 
2 x 5  m                                      0                    11564           16. 7                                  33.3                     0.05
 
2 x 5 m                                   500                    11443           16.7                                   33.3                     0.05
 
2 x 5 m                                 1000                    11278           16.7                                   33.3                     0.05
 
2 x 5 m                                 2000                    11021            20.0                                  33.3                     0.06
 
 
2 x 10 m                                     0                      7897             22.8                                  22.8                     0.10
 
2 x 10 m                                 500                     7677              22.9                                  22.9                     0.10
 
2 x 10 m                                1000                    7449              22.9                                  22.9                     0.10
 
2 x 10 m                                2000                    6970               23.0                                 23.0                     0.10
 
 
2 x 20 m                                      0                     4812               26.6                                 14.0                     0.19
 
2 x 20 m                                  500                     4490               26.8                                 14.1                     0.19
 
2 x 20 m                                 1000                    4156               26.8                                 14.1                     0.19
 
2 x 20 m                                 2000                    3442               27.4                                 14.4                     0.19
  
 
4 x 5 m                                           0                   8590               22.3                                  24.8                    0.09
  
4 x 5 m                                       500                   8380               22.3                                  24.8                    0.09
 
4 x 5 m                                     1000                   8163               22.4                                  24.9                    0.09
 
4 x 5 m                                     2000                   7707               22.5                                  25.0                    0.09
 
 
4 x 10 m                                         0                   5261                26.0                                  15.3                    0.17
 
4 x 10 m                                     500                  4943                 26.0                                  15.3                    0.17
 
4 x 10 m                                    1000                 4612                 26.2                                  15.4                    0.17
 
4 x 10 m                                    2000                 3905                 28.3                                   15.7                   0.18
 
4 x 20 m                                           0                 2896                 29.1                                     8.53                 0.34
 
4 x 20 m                                       500                2494                  29.2                                     8.56                 0.34
 
4 x 20 m                                      1000               2073                  30.4                                     8.65                 0.35
 
4 x 20 m                                      2000               1169                  31.8                                     9.05                 0.35
 
 
4 x 5 m under 45 degrees               0                9233                 16.0                                     26.6                 0.06
 
4 x 5 m under 45 degrees           500                9023                 16.0                                     26.7                 0.06
 
4 x 5 m under 45 degrees          1000              8805                  16.0                                     26.7                 0.06
 
4 x 5 m under 45 degrees          2000              8342                  1 .1                                      26.9                 0.06
 
 
Conclusion: A top coil does not increase efficiency for the configurations modelled.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
 
D.W. Rollema
V.d. Marckstraat 5
2352 RA Leiderdorp
The Netherlands
Tel. +31 71 589 27 34
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21611 invoked from network); 18 Sep 1999 20:36:56 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Sep 1999 20:36:56 +0100 Received: (qmail 31996 invoked from network); 18 Sep 1999 19:34:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Sep 1999 19:34:58 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11SQ8j-00059Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:27:17 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from premium.inrete.it ([194.116.9.4] helo=mailer.inrete.it ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11SQ8h-00059U-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:27:16 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from cel266 (pool17-010.dialup.alpcom.it [194.116.17.10]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA27070 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 21:27:10 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990918202717.009338d0@mailer.inrete.it> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:27:17 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: Re: former/future usage of german LF frequencies In-reply-to: <000201bf00cc$3bb96f40$0400d3d4@dave> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 19.01 16/09/99 +0100, Dave G3YMC wrote: >The notes point out that the 136.8 frequency is already allocated on a primary basis in countries outside DL, and any allocation must not cause interference to these. Perhaps there are even more transmitters liable to appear unannounced on it! > Is there any way of knowing what countries have official allocations in the band? Any OM with access to the ITU lists? 73 - Marco IK1ODO spin@inrete.it Rivalta, ITALY JN35SA (N 45 01' 25.6", E 7 31' 09.4") From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2957 invoked from network); 18 Sep 1999 22:01:06 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Sep 1999 22:01:06 +0100 Received: (qmail 12635 invoked from network); 18 Sep 1999 20:59:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Sep 1999 20:59:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11SRSq-0005mA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 21:52:08 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11SRSp-0005m3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 21:52:08 +0100 Received: from [203.96.101.211] by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990918205505.JMFU685.mta2-rme@[203.96.101.211]> for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:55:05 +1200 Message-ID: <37E3F920.73E4@xtra.co.nz> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:42:08 +1200 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: LF-antennas with top load 3 References: <001301bf01fb$d4224ce0$d796b38f@w8k3f0> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks to Dick PA0SE for modelling a range of antenna configurations. Comments are made on excerpts: > In this (the last I hope for you ...) report you find the results of > computer simulation of a coil between the top end of the vertical > radiator and the top load wires. ..... > For practical reasons a top load coil has to be of limited size. I > have modelled coils of 500, 1000 and 2000 microhenry. > > In order to present a more useful picture I also included a > loading/tuning coil at the bottom end of the radiator. The coil has > been chosen so that it resonates the system. The Q of both coils has > been set at 300. ..... > Conclusion: A top coil does not increase efficiency for the > configurations modelled. This is also a conclusion that would have been made by commercial nondirectional beacon (NDB) users as there are no loading coils "up in the air" that I am aware of (but there are resistors inserted in some cases, to lower Q). In the amateur case, the quest is for maximised efficiency for a given QTH and practical antenna mounts, so inserting resistors in the antenna is not on the agenda. It is likely that a higher Q coil could be made for use "on the ground" than for use "up in the air" (mechanical reasons, and electrical weatherproofing against arcing over). So using Dick's conclusion (for equal Q), there is arguably a net conclusion in favour of base loading (could have higher Q). The ONLY reason I am aware of where centre loading could actually be beneficial on LF for amateur type of installations is for the USA situation where they have a prescriptive regulation that says that LowFers in the band 165 - 190 kHz can have no more than 50 feet of antenna, from the transmitter output. Being bound by such formulated limits, a pure vertical with centre loading coil is about the best that can be squeezed out in terms of efficiency, with the transmitter at the base of the antenna. Thankfully there are other countries that do not place physical size limits on amateur antennas, or feeder lengths, so the benefits of capacitive top loading can be reasonably exploited. An e.i.r.p. limit on radiated power is considered to be a far better way of capping amateur radiated power, to allow for free experimentation and a lot of fun to be had in warming up the ground :) Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27717 invoked from network); 19 Sep 1999 08:17:09 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Sep 1999 08:17:09 +0100 Received: (qmail 14844 invoked from network); 19 Sep 1999 07:15:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Sep 1999 07:15:16 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Sau4-0001qP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 07:56:52 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from ds9.sci.fi ([195.74.0.54]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Sau2-0001qK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 07:56:51 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from default (MMMDCCXIX.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.164.119]) by ds9.sci.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA09500 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:57:11 +0300 (EET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990919095655.008001a0@mail.dlc.fi> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: vaiski@mail.dlc.fi X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:56:55 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: Re: LF: LF-antennas with top load In-reply-to: <37E3F920.73E4@xtra.co.nz> References: <001301bf01fb$d4224ce0$d796b38f@w8k3f0> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: LF Friends, Could anyone test calculate the antenna type with which we have done a lot of field work and measurements of all kind? Namely, 14 m tall Locator/NDB air navigation antenna operating on air navigation band around 300 kHz. I have personally flight and ground measured some 50 or 60 of them including determination of radiated power (EMRP). The antenna is top loaded with common 6 radial rods at the top with connecting wire. The loadind coil is in ATU cabinet along with a autotransformer. 73 de Vaino, OH2LX ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2155 invoked from network); 19 Sep 1999 09:13:30 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Sep 1999 09:13:30 +0100 Received: (qmail 5674 invoked from network); 19 Sep 1999 08:11:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Sep 1999 08:11:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Sbm0-0002Es-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:52:36 +0100 Received: from mb06.swip.net ([193.12.122.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Sblw-0002En-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:52:32 +0100 Received: from win95 (d212-151-60-107.swipnet.se [212.151.60.107]) by mb06.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA26652 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:52:29 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <001e01bf0274$45161440$6b3c97d4@win95.swipnet.se> From: "Christer Andersson" To: "RSGB LF group" Subject: LF: Antennas with top load Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:54:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I found some information on propagation characteristics for NDB antennas with different kinds of top loading at: http://www.plains.demon.co.uk/navaids/ndb_ant.htm 73 Christer From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2382 invoked from network); 19 Sep 1999 09:16:39 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Sep 1999 09:16:39 +0100 Received: (qmail 6941 invoked from network); 19 Sep 1999 08:14:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Sep 1999 08:14:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11SbpJ-0002FF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:56:01 +0100 Received: from mb06.swip.net ([193.12.122.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11SbpG-0002F9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:55:58 +0100 Received: from win95 (d212-151-60-107.swipnet.se [212.151.60.107]) by mb06.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA28127 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:55:55 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <002001bf0274$c00cf600$6b3c97d4@win95.swipnet.se> From: "Christer Andersson" To: "RSGB LF group" Subject: LF: Antennas with top load (2) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:58:23 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: [Amendment to the previously sent mail] http://www.plains.demon.co.uk/navaids/ndb_ant.htm then select ISF 15 Page 2 /Christer From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19383 invoked from network); 20 Sep 1999 07:25:49 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 20 Sep 1999 07:25:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 9281 invoked from network); 20 Sep 1999 06:24:01 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Sep 1999 06:24:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11SwiJ-0003mj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 07:14:11 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226] helo=gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11SwiH-0003md-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 07:14:09 +0100 Received: by gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA13678; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:15:47 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from somewhere by smtpxd X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Message-ID: From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" To: "'rsgb_lf_group'" Subject: LF: Weekend Report 18.,19. Sept. Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:14:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hallo Group, Here an information about the stations I heard, worked: Saturday 18.9. : heard only HB9ASB (559) calling cq. Did not spend a lot of time for receiving, because I had to do some antenna work. Sunday 19.9. : Heard 07:40 DJ2EY 559 07:35 OK1FIG 539 07:45 DK8KW 519 07:45 HB9ASB 559 07:45 DJ1RL 559 08:00 DL3FDO 539 Worked 09:30 DJ1RL 519 got 339 (201 km) Tried DL3FDO over the whole day but no answer At 19:00 UTC on 80 m : The only station I could hear was PA0SE 59+20 because of very strong QRM from I- stations I could only hear some fragments of the other stations but copied no call. So it is impossible to take part on 80m from south germany. 73 Wolf DL1SAN http://kunden.ulm-direkt.net/dl1san/main.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3551 invoked from network); 20 Sep 1999 08:58:27 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 20 Sep 1999 08:58:27 +0100 Received: (qmail 21907 invoked from network); 20 Sep 1999 07:56:38 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Sep 1999 07:56:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11SxoV-0004JS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:24:39 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from pc1.telecom.cz ([194.228.2.40] helo=hermes.iol.cz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11SxoU-0004JM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:24:38 +0100 Received: from lasvegas.GMCCZ ([194.228.133.12]) by hermes.iol.cz (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 631-60961U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id cz for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:23:58 +0200 Received: by LASVEGAS with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) id ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:22:58 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: From: "Petr Maly" To: "'136'" Subject: LF: Weekend report Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:22:56 +0200 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At the cottage. I had problems with TX again. This time blocking condensers burned. I heard and called (with power little reduced) HB9ASB, in vain (someone helped me?). Worked DK8KW (Sorry, Geri, my TX burned definitely at the moment I had given you the report). Heard DJ1RL (539), DL1SAN (529) and DL3FDO (539). LF net: I couldn't copy anything till about 19:30, then heard Dave for a while. On this side of Eu this fq/time nearly unusable due strong QRM from I and UA stations. 73! Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8516 invoked from network); 20 Sep 1999 09:21:40 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 20 Sep 1999 09:21:40 +0100 Received: (qmail 27383 invoked from network); 20 Sep 1999 08:19:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Sep 1999 08:19:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11SyG2-0004Wz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:53:06 +0100 Received: from artemis.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.126]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11SyFz-0004Wu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:53:03 +0100 Received: from pc171.geog.le.ac.uk ([143.210.151.171] helo=kate) by artemis.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11SyFy-0001Jr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:53:02 +0100 From: "kate moore" To: "lfgroup" Subject: LF: Weekend report Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:41:53 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Stations worked here over the weekend on 136kHz using normal speed CW: Saturday 18/9 GW4ALG (06.46UT: gave him 58/99, he gave me 599), PA0SE (07.05: 579, 579), G3CCH (10.34: 579, 579). Sunday 19/9 DJ5DI (07.33: 559, 559QRN), PA2NJN (08.08: 569QRM, 519QRM), G6RO (08.45: 57/89, 599), GW4ALG (09.10: 58/99, 599). The main event this weekend was certainly the weather. Most of the time we had gale force winds and heavy rain so my antenna suffered a lot, and that limited the times it was safe to operate. Static levels were correspondingly high in the evenings. Friday morning was fairly calm but there was no-one about to work and the weather prevented any contacts later. Saturday was similar, and again activity levels were disappointingly low. Sunday morning was much better with good propagation, so suddenly QRM became a problem, especially during my QSO with PA2NJN where both ends of the contact suffered interference from several G stations! During the week I worked a new station - G0AKY, Bill in Bexhill who was quite weak but fully readable here. On Sunday morning, Toni HB9ASB was a good 559 signal here at 07.00UT on 136.5kHz, but my antenna was off tune due to stretching overnight in the winds, so I didn't try to call him. A new German station heard on Sunday was DJ1RL at RST-449, calling CQ and then working DK8KW who was 559. At 20.00UT I heard Marzio IK5ZPV calling CQ on 136.9kHz at RST-469 through the heavy static. I called him for around 10 minutes at the end of each CQ, but he didn't hear me. Roll on the quiet conditions during the winter! Regards John G4GVC near Leicester, IO92JP ** TX: Synth + 400W RF from modified 'G3YXM' Mosfet PA ** ** RX: TS-850S with 3 x CW filters and 0.5ppm TCXO ** ** Ant: Inv-L 60m long, 6m high at feed end, 12m high at far end ** From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18952 invoked from network); 20 Sep 1999 10:05:46 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 20 Sep 1999 10:05:46 +0100 Received: (qmail 5884 invoked from network); 20 Sep 1999 09:03:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Sep 1999 09:03:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11SzEG-00051E-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:55:20 +0100 Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11SzEF-000519-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:55:19 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #34) id 11T077-0004uu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:52:02 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:49:37 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:49:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Weekend report 18/19 September X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Spent Saturday getting the parts for my new antenna so no activity. Sunday 19 September In the morning, I heard HB9ASB (549); G3BDQ (599); PA2NJN (539); G4GVC (599); PA0SE (579); DJ5DI (539); DL3FDO (539); G3KEV (599); G6RO (579); G3AQC (589). Spentmost of day improving antenna (details to follow). Afterantenna change (evening by now), worked GW4ALG (gave 589, got 579); G8RW (599/599). Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19745 invoked from network); 20 Sep 1999 10:08:53 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 20 Sep 1999 10:08:53 +0100 Received: (qmail 32718 invoked from network); 20 Sep 1999 09:13:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Sep 1999 09:13:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11SzHy-00051V-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:59:10 +0100 Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11SzHx-00051Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:59:09 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #34) id 11T0Aq-00059l-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:55:53 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:59:45 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:59:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: New antenna X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Spent most of this weekend putting into action plans for a better antenna (both physically and electrically) which I have been drawing up for some time. The result - still an inverted-L -is a slightly higher vertical section, a mast that does not need to be taken down in the wind, and three top wires 0.7m apart at the vertical end and 1m apart at the far end. The frequency dropped from 137kHz to 122kHz, a 12 per cent change. I have not yet compared these with Dick's predicted capacitance changes. On receive it performs better with slightly stronger signals and less noise. On transmit, I was disappointed to get less current (even after a lot of fiddling with the matching transformer). I expected more current. My first reaction was to think that the antenna impedance had gone up but I think that would be swamped by the earth resistance in any case. Anyone got any ideas? Reports from GW4ALG and G8RW appeared to show that it was at least as good as my single wire top section, despite the current reduction. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7630 invoked from network); 20 Sep 1999 18:31:01 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 20 Sep 1999 18:31:01 +0100 Received: (qmail 9826 invoked from network); 20 Sep 1999 17:29:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Sep 1999 17:29:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11T6nn-0000Jf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:00:31 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as-img-4.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.147] helo=spamgaad.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11T6nm-0000Ja-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:00:30 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.6) id NAA08289 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:00:28 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:00:08 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Weekend report 18/19.9.99 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199909201300_MC2-8598-536@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello friends, I still get new stations in the log. Saturday I was busy, but Sunday brought up DJ1RL (-117 dBu) and PA2NJN (-120 dBu), both in normal-CW. Additionally I worked OK1FIG (-124 dBu) when his transmitter failed and DJ5DI (-115 dBu). Heard a couple of stations such as DL1SAN (419, we should be able to make it next time. this time I called you without success ...), G3KEV and PA0SE. Interesting to note that a couple of signals were down by 5 or even 10 dBu, such as Petr, OK1FIG, (yesterday -124 dBu compared to -117 dBu last week), DJ5DI (yesterday -115 dBu compared to -95 dBu a month ago), G3KEV (-110 dBu compared to -100 dBu normally). This did not affect stations that are close by (such as DCF39, -25 dBu), so I can exclude any failure in my own receiving equipment. Has anyone else noted this? Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12821 invoked from network); 20 Sep 1999 20:41:21 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 20 Sep 1999 20:41:21 +0100 Received: (qmail 30555 invoked from network); 20 Sep 1999 19:39:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Sep 1999 19:39:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11T98Z-0001Ug-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:30:07 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111] helo=gadolinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11T98Y-0001UU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:30:06 +0100 Received: from [212.140.3.214] (helo=default) by gadolinium with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11T98U-0000YK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:30:03 +0100 Message-ID: <003701bf039d$fd7f7240$d6038cd4@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: No Cluster spots 18/19th Sept on GB7DXM Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:16:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, a rather frustrating weekend on LF. I have confirmed a source of man-made interference about 100 feet away, on the opposite side of the road, fortunately I can move my antenna away from it. I think it is either a TV or a games machine. As it appears at about 0740z for 2 hours it wipes a lot of the active period. Stations heard on Saturday Good steady QRS cq from Geri DK8KW at 0627z G3XDV at 0723z , With G4GVC, GW4ALG, G3KEV, and G3YXM all stations that are capable of defeating the noise. In one of the quiet spells, I heard G8RW working G3AQC, the latter being a new call for me. Geri mentioned that stations seemed weaker this weekend than normal. I did notice that I did not receive CFH (?) on 137 overnight Sunday/Monday. I am not sure whether this is because it was off for some reason or maybe propagation was down. It normally produces a trace giving a S/N ratio of about 15dB on FFTDSP4, so total absence is a unusual. This period is not affected by my noise problem, though there was a lot of static. I did not listen for it on the previous two nights, as I left the monitor running at the top of the band for QRS stations. I think it was last heard sometime mid last week. I really will have to record these observations!! I have had no response to my request to UBA for a copy of the logging program. I guess they are not back for the winter term yet. There were no postings to GB7DXM in the 7 days prior to 19th September. GB7DXM seems to have crashed early on the 19th, only returning to service about 1400z today the 20th Sept. 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13974 invoked from network); 20 Sep 1999 22:44:18 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 20 Sep 1999 22:44:18 +0100 Received: (qmail 6684 invoked from network); 20 Sep 1999 21:48:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Sep 1999 21:48:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11TB1j-0002TL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:31:11 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.31] (helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11TB1i-0002TG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:31:10 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.150.32]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA30C5 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:31:03 +0200 Message-ID: <001801bf03b0$89d30a60$2096b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: No Cluster spots 18/19th Sept on GB7DXM Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:38:10 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Alan, You wrote: >I have had no >response to my request to UBA for a copy of the logging program. I guess >they are not back for the winter term yet. I have downloaded the program and can send it to you as a series of attachments. Not via the reflector as I found out earlier that this does not work. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3903 invoked from network); 23 Sep 1999 10:16:08 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Sep 1999 10:16:08 +0100 Received: (qmail 29576 invoked from network); 23 Sep 1999 09:20:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Sep 1999 09:20:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11U4Sa-00046h-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:42:36 +0100 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11U4SZ-00046b-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:42:35 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 11U4RN-0001Xm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:41:22 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:28:54 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:28:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Current X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I commented that my antenna current had gone down following the change from one top wire to three. I have re-engineered the far end and have improved things. It seems that the far end insulation was not as good as it could be (1m of plastic pipe). I have now restored the current to what it was before the change by adding an extra insulator in each leg. This shows that it is just as important to keep the far end =extremely= well insulated as it is to minimise losses at the high current end. The antenna still needs a little work to make it as mechanically stable as possible, but it performs well. I have just had to put a small attenuator in the front end of the receiver! I look forward to some reports at the weekend. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16230 invoked from network); 23 Sep 1999 13:23:16 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Sep 1999 13:23:16 +0100 Received: (qmail 8506 invoked from network); 23 Sep 1999 12:21:43 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Sep 1999 12:21:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11U7le-0005hi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:14:30 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11U7ld-0005hd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:14:29 +0100 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11U7lb-000CWB-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:14:27 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <1HLPzAABDg63MwCE@telemetry.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:28:17 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: Current In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike This probably explains why my antenna current was always less than expected when using my 160 metre dipole, with feeders strapped, dangling through tree branches! I'm in process of moving to a new QTH where I hope to erect something approaching a quarter wave of wire, so will have to pay attention to insulators. 73 to all Tom, G3OLB >I commented that my antenna current had gone down following the >change from one top wire to three. I have re-engineered the far end >and have improved things. It seems that the far end insulation was >not as good as it could be (1m of plastic pipe). I have now restored >the current to what it was before the change by adding an extra >insulator in each leg. > >This shows that it is just as important to keep the far end >=extremely= well insulated as it is to minimise losses at the high >current end. > >The antenna still needs a little work to make it as mechanically stable >as possible, but it performs well. I have just had to put a small >attenuator in the front end of the receiver! > >I look forward to some reports at the weekend. > > >Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) >http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11426 invoked from network); 23 Sep 1999 22:52:09 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Sep 1999 22:52:09 +0100 Received: (qmail 667 invoked from network); 23 Sep 1999 21:57:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Sep 1999 21:57:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11UGLo-0001Rm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:24:24 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from disp.mindef.nl ([62.200.204.66] helo=u05.mindef.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11UGLn-0001Rh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:24:23 +0100 Received: from co.disp.mindef.nl (dial-080.pop2.mld.disp.net [62.200.207.80]) by u05.mindef.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA5634 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:23:50 +0200 Message-ID: <37EA9A2A.EFEAABA6@co.disp.mindef.nl> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:22:52 +0200 From: "J.M. Valstar" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [nl]C-CCK-MCD QXW07201 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: nl,de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "RSGB LF Group" Subject: LF: SCW report Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Every now and then last evenings I listened, or I'd better say set watch on the scw part of the LF band. There was little activity, but I 'saw' Mike's (G3XDV) transmissions several times on my screen.. Mike, your oscillator freq. is stable as a rock now; also the signal strength has improved a lot. Congratulations! Gram version 4.2.6 shows a very good visible transmission of you( "O") Received you on Tuesday, sept 21st at 19:27 and 20:03 utc and tonight Thursday sept 23rd at 20:45 utc. 73's Jaap/pa3guc loc: jo33ei From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25136 invoked from network); 24 Sep 1999 08:46:14 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Sep 1999 08:46:14 +0100 Received: (qmail 3214 invoked from network); 24 Sep 1999 07:44:45 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Sep 1999 07:44:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11UPfl-00065W-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:21:37 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11UPfk-00065R-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:21:36 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA22331 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:28:08 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990924092154.12ef97ca@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:21:54 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: solar eclipse MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: For those who are interested in the results of the UBA-KMI experiment during the solar eclipse of august 11th, the report can be downloaded at: http://www.uba.be/zon/EclRapEN.PDF (Adobe Acrobat format) The report is about 1.2MB but worth reading. 73, Rik ON7YD Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1627 invoked from network); 24 Sep 1999 12:36:54 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Sep 1999 12:36:54 +0100 Received: (qmail 7091 invoked from network); 24 Sep 1999 11:41:51 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Sep 1999 11:41:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11UTTk-0007ul-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:25:28 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hermes.iol.cz ([194.228.2.36]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11UTTc-0007ua-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:25:25 +0100 Received: from lasvegas.GMCCZ ([194.228.133.21]) by hermes.iol.cz (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 631-60961U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id cz for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:07:46 +0200 Received: by LASVEGAS with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) id ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:05:56 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: From: "Petr Maly" To: "'136'" Subject: LF: On air this weekend Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:05:54 +0200 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LowFers, This Sunday (and Saturday evening) I will be again in the air. Let's hope the conditions will be better than the last weekend. I will be on normal CW only, preferable time for CQing - round hour. Looking forward to making a new coutries! 73! Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11482 invoked from network); 26 Sep 1999 18:59:43 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Sep 1999 18:59:43 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Received: (qmail 12881 invoked from network); 26 Sep 1999 18:04:54 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Sep 1999 18:04:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VIJI-0006oj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:42:04 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VIJH-0006oe-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:42:03 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from dennison.demon.co.uk ([194.222.239.33]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11VIJC-0001CQ-0K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:41:58 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:40:47 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Mike Dennison" Subject: LF: Weekend report 25/26 September MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Saturday 25 September Got up early but QRM from next door on until 0700. Very low activity - worked all I heard - and had to go to work at 0930. QRN too bad later. Had a QRSs contact with DK8KW ('O'/'O') Worked PA0SE (gave 579, got 579 - best yet) and G4GVC (599 / 58/99). Sunday 26 September Noise on again early but managed couple of hours of operating after it stopped. Heard G3BDQ (599); PA0SE (579); ON7YD (559); G3KEV (599); G3YXM (5 9+10 9). Heard new one: G0VXG (339)working G3YXM but he didn't reply to my call. On the 12th, I claimed a possible first when I believed I saw OK1FIG's normal speed CW on Spectrogram set to narrow (ie could see the signal was there but couldn't read it). Today I did the same and this was definitely Petr's signal - see picture on my web site - though still no callsign read. It will be easy to receive him on QRSs. Finally completed a normal CW QSO with HB9ASB (339/339), having previously had a 100% QRSs contact and an uncomplete CW one. Also worked G4GVC (599 / 58/99); G6RO (549 / 57/89) and MM0ALM (549/549) New antenna has definitely made at least one s-point improvement. The difference has been to increase the effective height by (1) reducing the sag by improving the end supports and (2) changing from one to three top wires spaced about 0.8m apart. ERP is now approximately 150mW from my 200W Tx. A sketch of the antenna can be found on my web site. -- Mike, G3XDV http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24873 invoked from network); 26 Sep 1999 21:54:45 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Sep 1999 21:54:45 +0100 Received: (qmail 4621 invoked from network); 26 Sep 1999 20:53:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Sep 1999 20:53:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VLBs-0008CF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:46:36 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as-img-4.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.147] helo=spamgaad.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VLBq-0008CA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:46:34 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.6) id QAA28168 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:46:29 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:46:14 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Homepage DK8KW To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199909261646_MC2-8664-DCC3@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Lowfers, I experienced some difficulties reaching my own homepage through the shortcut http://www.dk8kw.home.pages.de If you have the same problems, please use the full adress http://home.t-online.de/home/dk8kw/lw.htm to reach my index page directly. If you run your own homepage and have a link to my site, please change the link accodingly. The "home.pages.de"-server currently seems to have problems to re-direct properly. Thank you, best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20719 invoked from network); 26 Sep 1999 22:52:58 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Sep 1999 22:52:58 +0100 Received: (qmail 6815 invoked from network); 26 Sep 1999 21:58:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Sep 1999 21:58:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VM4y-00005m-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 22:43:32 +0100 Received: from mb06.swip.net ([193.12.122.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VM4x-00005h-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 22:43:31 +0100 Received: from win95 (dialup48-2-25.swipnet.se [130.244.48.89]) by mb06.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA07965 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:43:28 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <001d01bf0868$846b2aa0$5930f482@win95.swipnet.se> From: "Christer Andersson" To: "RSGB LF group" Subject: LF: Rising activity in SM Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:45:56 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I just worked SM4DHN, Lars-Bertil in Hagfors, on 136.5. Lars-Bertil uses a 400W PA and a T-antenna. My new 26,5 m vertical seems to work fine. Reception improved by 10-15 dB compared to a 240 m longwire. I have removed the top coil and now only have 6 wires, 15 m each, as top load. Loading coil at the base + variometer in the shack. Just measured the feed impedance which is 39,5 Ohm. The earth connection consists of a dia. 110 mm steel tube for the water system, 6-8 meters down in the earth. 73/Christer, sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28859 invoked from network); 26 Sep 1999 23:11:52 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Sep 1999 23:11:52 +0100 Received: (qmail 8912 invoked from network); 26 Sep 1999 22:17:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Sep 1999 22:17:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VMNe-0000HU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:02:50 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VMNd-0000HP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:02:49 +0100 Received: from [62.6.16.61] (helo=default) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11VMNS-0006r8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:02:39 +0100 Message-ID: <001c01bf086a$41b379e0$3d10063e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for week-end 25/26 September Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 22:57:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, pleased to meet some of the well known call-signs at the Donnington Park rally. Thanks to John G4GVC for braving the 'snuffles' to bring us all together. It makes me all the more determined to get down to Windsor and for handshake with Andre. I stopped off for a family visit on the way back so missed the band on Saturday morning, I copied Geri DK8KW solidly at 1450z through a local thunderstorm working DF6NM. Good 'O' for Geri but coundn't see a trace of the other station. Also heard Mike CQ a little higher in frequency towards the end of Geri's qso. I saved the screen on this one. Sunday morning two QRS signals both CQs were logged, Mike G3XDV at 0608z and 0630z and ON4ZK at 0720z. ON4ZK was badly cut up by static on FFTDSP but fully readable on Spectrogram. Other stations logged on normal speed CW were PA0SE working G8RW, G4GVC, G3XDV, G3YXM working MM0ALM who was quite weak as Scotland was in the null of my loop. Mike mentions seeing weak signals from Petr on Spectrogram. I also saw a number of weak signals around 136.5 to 137 area, all too weak to copy hand keyed but would be fully 'O' on QRS. There is a signal as I type this on 137.37kHz which looks like a beacon, it has run continously for about 30 mins, ceasing at about 2112z Sunday (my clock about 90secs fast) If anyone has a really OLD computer, you don't need to tie up the PC as a slow keying machine. By old, I mean one with a cassette port!! Don't laugh...many of these have a motor control relay, for switching the motor on and off, which can be used to key the transmitter. Processor power is not a problem at these speeds I use a NEC 8201 which has a 2 Meg CMOS Z80 chip in it. The program is a modification of a CW keyboard from G4ANB's book (RSGB) and is written in interpreted Basic. It will actually key at up to about 16wpm on my machine. The program was developed for some of the MRS microwave group to use as beacon keyers.So come on fella's dig out the old Sinclairs and Dragons and Acorns, mouldering away in the loft and give them a new lease of life as a dedicated QRS keyer. Copies of the program available if required, but you must be willing to translate them to the 'flavour' Basic your machine uses. The NEC Basic is very Microsoft-ish. It is not too difficult to 'waggle' a printer control line in this sort of language if you don't have a casette MOTOR command. The real plus point is you DON'T NEED TO RUN WINDOWS (hurrah!)..... REAL computing for REAL radio! DX cluster spots from GB7DXM were:- 136.9 DJ2EY 26-Sep-1999 0916Z 539 136.9 DJ2EY 26-Sep-1999 0916Z 539 136.9 OK1FIG 26-Sep-1999 0912Z 559 in jn48wl 136.9 OK1FIG 26-Sep-1999 0912Z 559 in jn48wl 136.4 DL3FDO 25-Sep-1999 0925Z 519 136.5 OK1FIG 25-Sep-1999 0910Z 419 in jn48wl 136.8 DJ2LF 25-Sep-1999 0909Z G3NYK de GB7DXM 26-Sep 2037Z > 1800.0 DF3LP 26-Sep-1999 0823Z QRS CQ 136.68kHz 1800.0 OZ1KMR 25-Sep-1999 1614Z 136.65kHz 1800.0 DK8KW 25-Sep-1999 1558Z QRS qso 137.72kHz 1800.0 G3XDV 25-Sep-1999 1557Z QRS cq 137.7kHz G3NYK de GB7DXM 26-Sep 2040Z > 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5029 invoked from network); 26 Sep 1999 23:26:53 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Sep 1999 23:26:53 +0100 Received: (qmail 10668 invoked from network); 26 Sep 1999 22:32:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Sep 1999 22:32:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VMcv-0000PG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:18:37 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111] helo=gadolinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VMcs-0000P8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:18:34 +0100 Received: from [62.6.16.61] (helo=default) by gadolinium with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11VMcp-0006gP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:18:32 +0100 Message-ID: <002701bf086c$7a098e40$3d10063e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: RE Rising activity in SM Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:14:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Christer, I'm glad to see that things are moving forward. Can I make a plea that will be echoed by all the active UK stations ....DONT USE 136.5 please. It seems everbody uses 136.5kHz and there is a fairly acute QRM problem at busy times. Sometimes even at times were the band is quiet but there are 3 weak stations within 10Hz of that channel that can not be separated by our rx filters. With a mainly water to path to me in JO02pb I am keen to listen for QRS transmissions. I am able to leave a long term log running if necessary, any time, any day of the week. It would seem from your station description we should hear you now. 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14398 invoked from network); 26 Sep 1999 23:50:36 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Sep 1999 23:50:36 +0100 Received: (qmail 18395 invoked from network); 26 Sep 1999 22:49:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Sep 1999 22:49:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VN0g-0000ab-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:43:10 +0100 Received: from cask.force9.net ([195.166.128.29]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VN0f-0000aV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:43:09 +0100 Received: (qmail 22460 invoked from network); 26 Sep 1999 22:42:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Sep 1999 22:42:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 19201 invoked from network); 26 Sep 1999 22:42:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO prstesv1) (212.56.94.154) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Sep 1999 22:42:52 -0000 Message-ID: <003901bf0870$fc61f220$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Homepage DK8KW Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:46:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Geri and all, Talking of homepage access problems! My ISP has had a major crash and the news page has been inaccessible all weekend ( http://www.picks.f9.co.uk/136.htm ). It's back now but I can't FTP any news to it yet so it's out of date. A temporary service is available at http://www.wireless.org.uk which will revert to the normal page when all is well. Sorry about that. BTW only three of us on the LF net tonight on 3636 at 1900z, the band seemed quite quiet for a change, please support the net if you can. Thanks from Dave, G3YXM. >I experienced some difficulties reaching my own homepage through the >shortcut > > http://www.dk8kw.home.pages.de > >If you have the same problems, please use the full adress > > http://home.t-online.de/home/dk8kw/lw.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23908 invoked from network); 27 Sep 1999 01:30:30 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Sep 1999 01:30:30 +0100 Received: (qmail 21867 invoked from network); 27 Sep 1999 00:35:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Sep 1999 00:35:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VOYs-0001Xh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 01:22:34 +0100 Received: from mailout09.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.157]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VOYr-0001XZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 01:22:33 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fwd09.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.169]) by mailout09.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 11VOYp-0003Ty-00; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 02:22:31 +0200 Received: (087321565-0001(btxid)@[62.157.16.64]) by fwd09.btx.dtag.de id ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 02:22:19 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 02:22:19 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000201bf00cc$3bb96f40$0400d3d4@dave> Subject: Re: LF: Re: former/future usage of german LF frequencies X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-dialin.net From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hallo all, in Lillehammer the german HF manager, DL1VDL, has told me that already in June of this year he had addressed the german administration and opposed against these new LF applications. So we can hope that our concern is taken into account and at least no transmitter for these applications will be allocated within the CEPT LF band. 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB Dave Sergeant schrieb: > >From Dave G3YMC > > Having read in more detail the German original of the proposal to allocate > various LF frequencies to the pager service I note the following. > > The questionaire appears directed at potential users of these frequencies for > pager services - ie there may be several networks operating independantly. > It implies however that one individual network will use a single transmitter > designed to cover the whole of Germany. On that basis it would also be > quite strong in most of the rest of western Europe. > > The modulation is data in a 500Hz bandwidth, time multiplexed, and presumably > is fairly similar to DCF39. > > The notes point out that the 136.8 frequency is already allocated on a > primary basis in countries outside DL, and any allocation must not cause > interference to these. Perhaps there are even more transmitters liable to > appear unannounced on it! > > Closing date for comments on the proposals is October 1st. Perhaps some > input from the DARC and RSGB would be appropriate before that date - but it > is not long! > > There is no indication of when the formal allocations would be made or when > transmissions would commence. > > It would be unfortunate if the 136.8 transmitter came on, but in reality > there is probably little we can do about it in a shared band. > > 73s Dave G3YMC > sergeantd@compuserve.com > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9829 invoked from network); 27 Sep 1999 08:05:38 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Sep 1999 08:05:38 +0100 Received: (qmail 26077 invoked from network); 27 Sep 1999 07:04:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Sep 1999 07:04:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VUcr-0004Zm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:51:05 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as-img-4.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.147] helo=spamgaad.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VUcq-0004Zd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:51:04 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.6) id CAA13018 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 02:50:22 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 02:50:00 -0400 From: "Holger 'Geri', DK8KW" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for week-end 25/26 September To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199909270250_MC2-8664-F2F5@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello friends, first of all, Alan, thank you again for the cluster information. Our cluster DB0FC was down during the weekend (and currently seems to have problems to get in touch with the outside world, if it is on) so I could neither post nor read something. However, I had a nice QSO with Petr, OK1FIG, who was another 2 dBu stronger that last time we worked. Petr told me that he now runs increased power so that a QSO G or GW to OK seems to be more likely. Also had a nice Slow-CW QSO with DF6NM, Markus near Nuernberg. More and more stations pop up. Mike, G3XDV is getting stronger and stronger, Mike, your signal was nearly audible on Saturday (and full 'o' on the screen). I did not have more time to enjoy the nice conditions as I had to go to see my daughter win a horse riding contest on Sunday morning ... Alan G3NYK, you wrote: >Hi All, pleased to meet some of the well known call-signs at the Donnington >Park rally. Thanks to John G4GVC for braving the 'snuffles' to bring us all >together. It makes me all the more determined to get down to Windsor and for >handshake with Andre. I currently plan a business trip to the Middle East and will return to Europe next Friday (October 8, 1999). I have routed my flight through Heathrow and hope to be able to make a stop-over on Saturday to go to Old Windsor to shake hands and to see the faces behind all those famous LF-callsigns! I see a 80 to 90% chance to make it! Look for the guy with the "Slow-CW t-shirt"! Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24042 invoked from network); 27 Sep 1999 08:41:17 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Sep 1999 08:41:17 +0100 Received: (qmail 12761 invoked from network); 27 Sep 1999 07:46:16 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Sep 1999 07:46:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VVHG-0004un-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:32:50 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hermes.iol.cz ([194.228.2.36]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VVHF-0004ui-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:32:49 +0100 Received: from lasvegas.GMCCZ ([194.228.133.41]) by hermes.iol.cz (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 631-60961U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id cz for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:32:10 +0200 Received: by LASVEGAS with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) id ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:30:43 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: From: "Petr Maly" To: "'136'" Subject: LF: Weekend report Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:30:41 +0200 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LowFers, This weekend was a little bit better than the previous one, but not so good as 14 days ago. I worked DJ2LF, DF3LP, DK8KW and DF6NM. In vain I called IK5ZPV, but he was very poor here. DL3FDO was here 549, but it is a DEAF station. Did anyone make QSO with him? I called him many times. 73! Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23729 invoked from network); 27 Sep 1999 09:39:12 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Sep 1999 09:39:12 +0100 Received: (qmail 19746 invoked from network); 27 Sep 1999 08:44:27 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Sep 1999 08:44:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VWBN-0005O0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:30:49 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VWBM-0005Nq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:30:48 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA11462 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:37:04 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990927103045.268fa7fc@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:30:45 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: weekend report 24-26 september 1999 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A lot of activity on this weekend. Due to a problem with the PC-monitor (fixed by now) I had to stick to normal CW. Stations heard : G4GVC (549), PA0SE (589), DJ5DI (559), G3XDV (549), PA0LEG (569), DK9DX (549), DL2EVB (529), MM0ALM (529), G3KEV (579), DL3FDO (559), IK5ZPV (529), HB9ASB (529), DF3LP (539), G3BDQ (549), OK1FIG (529), PA2NJN (549), DK8KW (549). OK1FIG had a real nice signal here on sunday morning. I heard him working DF3LP and DK8KW, but despite a whole series of calls I could not attreact his attention. At one moment Petr had a nice 'pile up' with DJ5DI, PA0SE, G3KEV and myself calling hime but he didn't seem to hear any of us. My activity was abruptly finished arround 9.30 UT as one of the antenna wires broke due to strong winds. I hope to fix it during the week and to be QRV again next weekend. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22689 invoked from network); 27 Sep 1999 10:31:32 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Sep 1999 10:31:32 +0100 Received: (qmail 13533 invoked from network); 27 Sep 1999 09:30:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Sep 1999 09:30:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VWyu-0005qJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:22:00 +0100 Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VWyt-0005qE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:21:59 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.5) with SMTP is 2147426172 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:21:42 +0200 (MDT) Message-ID: <37EF3B33.2FE56244@phonakcom.ch> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:38:59 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Toni Baertschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,de-CH,fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Weekend report References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >>From HB9ASB, JN36pt DL3FDO has also a good signal down here but I've abandoned calling him, he suffers probably from heavy QRM from nearby commercial stations and is virtually deaf. Actually I'm running more than a Kilowatt and making more power is senseless. Condx have been not so good last weekend and your signal was readable but thin. Anyway I think we should be able to make a QSO in normal CW. 73 de Toni Petr Maly wrote: > > Hello LowFers, > This weekend was a little bit better than the previous one, but not so > good as 14 days ago. I worked DJ2LF, DF3LP, DK8KW and DF6NM. In vain I > called IK5ZPV, but he was very poor here. DL3FDO was here 549, but it is > a DEAF station. Did anyone make QSO with him? I called him many times. > > 73! Petr, OK1FIG > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > Encoding: base64 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9997 invoked from network); 27 Sep 1999 12:00:49 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Sep 1999 12:00:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 5598 invoked from network); 27 Sep 1999 11:06:03 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Sep 1999 11:06:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VY6N-0006So-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:33:47 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hermes.iol.cz ([194.228.2.36]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VY6L-0006Si-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:33:45 +0100 Received: from lasvegas.GMCCZ ([194.228.133.45]) by hermes.iol.cz (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 631-60961U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id cz for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:33:09 +0200 Received: by LASVEGAS with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) id ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:31:40 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: From: "Petr Maly" To: "'136'" Subject: LF: WEB updated - photos Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:31:40 +0200 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1459.74) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LowFers, I appologize to all who called me in vain this weekend. These days I am thinking of a preselector based on the following idea. I will mix the input signal 136 kHz in a v e r y t o u g h mixer to frequency 9 MHz, then I let the signal go through a crystal filter (SSB or CW, maybe switchable), then I will mix back to 136 kHz with the same oscillator. The oscillator will be tunable. This should work as a very selectable "preselector", which would be capable to filter out even very close DCF39. Any ideas? I updated my WEB pages, mainly photos added. You can start at the very home page http://www.mujweb.cz/www/ok1fig/index.htm or you can go to main page for LF http://www.mujweb.cz/www/ok1fig/136k.htm or you can visit Picture gallery http://www.mujweb.cz/www/ok1fig/gallery.htm 73! Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9248 invoked from network); 27 Sep 1999 12:54:57 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Sep 1999 12:54:57 +0100 Received: (qmail 2297 invoked from network); 27 Sep 1999 11:53:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Sep 1999 11:53:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VZCz-00073h-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:44:41 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VZCw-00070l-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:44:39 +0100 Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id HAA26612; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:51:34 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA14387; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:43:33 -0400 Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by umrsvr.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA24214; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:44:01 -0400 Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:37:55 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Soegiono, Gamal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Radio Regulations (source) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:37:50 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello all, Radio Regulation terms "Primary", "Permitted" and "Secondary" In Radio Regulations (RR) Section IV, single frequencies or bands of frequencies are allocated to one or more services (alias users). Primary/Permitted Service(s) Permitted and Primary Services have equal rights, except that, in the preparations of frequency plans, the Primary Service, as compared with the Permitted Service, shall have prior choice of frequencies. Secondary Service Stations of Secondary Service shall not cause harmful interference to stations of Permitted or Primary Service to which frequencies are already assigned or to which frequencies may be assigned at a later date. Stations of Secondary Service cannot claim protection from harmful interference from stations of a Primary or Permitted Service to which frequencies are already assigned or may be assigned at a later date. Stations of Secondary Service can claim protection, however, from harmful interference from stations of the same or other secondary service(s) to which frequencies may be assigned at a later date. More on RR can be seen on the following site (not affiliated with ITU !!!): http://w3.ub.net.id/~me/orari/pp/ view the html files starting with "chapter". 73 de Gamal From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14895 invoked from network); 27 Sep 1999 23:39:05 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Sep 1999 23:39:05 +0100 Received: (qmail 12509 invoked from network); 27 Sep 1999 22:44:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Sep 1999 22:44:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VizH-0003uB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:11:11 +0100 Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VizG-0003u6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:11:10 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Tue, 28 Sep 1999 00:10:54 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de (PC108211.dial.uni-kiel.de [134.245.108.211]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA21680 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 00:11:26 +0200 (MET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37EFEB5F.9431D995@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 00:10:39 +0200 From: "Peter W. Schnoor" Organization: University of Kiel, Clinic of Nephrology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Rising activity in SM References: <001d01bf0868$846b2aa0$5930f482@win95.swipnet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello group, Hi Christer, Christer Andersson wrote: > > I just worked SM4DHN, Lars-Bertil in Hagfors, on 136.5. > Lars-Bertil uses a 400W PA and a T-antenna. Heard SM4DHN at good signal strength here near Kiel, 429 at 21:30 UTC. Called him many times this evening but the only reply was "QRZ?"... 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26741 invoked from network); 28 Sep 1999 13:14:05 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Sep 1999 13:14:05 +0100 Received: (qmail 29156 invoked from network); 28 Sep 1999 12:12:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Sep 1999 12:12:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Vvk2-0001w1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:48:18 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Vvk1-0001vw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:48:17 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA12299 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:48:09 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <1999092813012568199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:01:25 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re: Nice to be back Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Fired up the LF transmitter on 137kHz for the first time this morning after several months (my time and the mast being required for another project). I had to relearn a few things before I could get reasonable power out. I tried a different loading system but in the end went back to the old system. The Loran was just as bad as before but nevertheless renewed acquaintances with GW4ALG (569), G3XDV(599!), G3YMC(569) and G4GVC(579). I must really comment on Mike's signal. When I had sorted the receiver tuning out I COULDN'T believe seeing the S meter hitting the S9 mark on the keying. There was a time when the G3XDV signal was buried in the Loran hash so the range of antenna improvements have really paid off. Well done Mike. I checked out the 73kHz loading system and did a test transmission but the 'growler' was on. I will be on 73kHz for part of the HF convention period and will be listening on 136kHz as well as 73kHz. During a retail therapy session with XYL Erica last week I called in the local radio emporium (GWM Radio) and found (and bought) an interesting bit of kit called Level Meter D2155. Covers 200Hz to 620kHz (made by Siemens). Does anyone know about this? I recollect seeing something on the reflector about it but I cant remember who it was. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16028 invoked from network); 28 Sep 1999 14:45:01 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Sep 1999 14:45:01 +0100 Received: (qmail 29356 invoked from network); 28 Sep 1999 13:50:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Sep 1999 13:50:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VxGT-0002hs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:25:53 +0100 Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.41] helo=pyyhe.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11VxGQ-0002hn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:25:51 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from default (MMMCMXXI.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.165.21]) by pyyhe.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA09039 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:34:18 +0300 (EET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990928162557.00810510@mail.dlc.fi> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: vaiski@mail.dlc.fi X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:25:57 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: Re: LF: Rising activity in SM In-reply-to: <37EFEB5F.9431D995@nephro.uni-kiel.de> References: <001d01bf0868$846b2aa0$5930f482@win95.swipnet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF folks, Have been testing my new AR-7030 Plus receiver and after purchasing an 8 Ah Tudor battery some of the hum problems were cleared. With a 500 Hz Collins filter - which is absolutely necessary - can now say that this is the best receiver I have been using (since the WWII). Using a 15 m long wire at 3 m AGL I heard yesterday some 135-136 kHz 'DX's' for the first time - no transmitter thou. There is a 1:10 transformer between coax and 'long' wire. SM4DHN was calling OZ1KMR around 2123 UTC, with no answer. I heard both loud and clear. Also heard SM4DRN calling. With a Kenwood R5000 nothing at all were copied. I understood that Datong VLF/LF converter is best available? Have been using a converter built some years ago by OH3EK. The above catches were with straight AR-7030, no converter. 73 to all de Vaino At 00:10 28.9.1999 +0200, you wrote: >Hello group, >Hi Christer, > >Christer Andersson wrote: >> >> I just worked SM4DHN, Lars-Bertil in Hagfors, on 136.5. >> Lars-Bertil uses a 400W PA and a T-antenna. > >Heard SM4DHN at good signal strength here near Kiel, 429 at >21:30 UTC. Called him many times this evening but the only >reply was "QRZ?"... > >54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag >73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6070 invoked from network); 28 Sep 1999 18:46:36 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Sep 1999 18:46:36 +0100 Received: (qmail 16008 invoked from network); 28 Sep 1999 17:45:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Sep 1999 17:45:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11W17M-0004mz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:32:44 +0100 Received: from mashie.force9.net ([195.166.128.30]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11W17L-0004mr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:32:43 +0100 Received: (qmail 18308 invoked from network); 28 Sep 1999 17:32:30 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Sep 1999 17:32:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 18396 invoked from network); 28 Sep 1999 17:32:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO prstesv1) (212.56.122.59) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Sep 1999 17:32:29 -0000 Message-ID: <005801bf09d7$f65be760$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Rising activity in SM Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:36:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Viano, I wouldn't recommend the Datong convertor for use on long wire aerials. It overloads too easily for serious use. >I understood that Datong VLF/LF converter is best available? >Have been using a converter built some years ago by OH3EK. >The above catches were with straight AR-7030, no converter. 73 Dave, G3YXM. At 00:10 28.9.1999 +0200, you wrote: >Hello group, >Hi Christer, > >Christer Andersson wrote: >> >> I just worked SM4DHN, Lars-Bertil in Hagfors, on 136.5. >> Lars-Bertil uses a 400W PA and a T-antenna. > >Heard SM4DHN at good signal strength here near Kiel, 429 at >21:30 UTC. Called him many times this evening but the only >reply was "QRZ?"... > >54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag >73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22285 invoked from network); 28 Sep 1999 19:38:47 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Sep 1999 19:38:47 +0100 Received: (qmail 23385 invoked from network); 28 Sep 1999 18:37:42 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Sep 1999 18:37:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11W1xA-0005Gs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:26:16 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.39]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11W1xA-0005Eo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:26:16 +0100 Received: from dennison.demon.co.uk ([194.222.239.33]) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11W1wx-0008wS-0B for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:26:03 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:24:19 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Mike Dennison" Subject: Re: LF: Rising activity in SM In-reply-to: <005801bf09d7$f65be760$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3YXM wrote: >I wouldn't recommend the Datong convertor for use on long wire aerials. It >overloads too easily for serious use. > Well, yes it does, but it is very easy to build an attenuator and/or tuned circuit to put in front of it. I have used the Datong converter for two years and feel I have as good a receiver as anyone. -- Mike, G3XDV http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13470 invoked from network); 28 Sep 1999 22:26:59 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Sep 1999 22:26:59 +0100 Received: (qmail 31475 invoked from network); 28 Sep 1999 21:32:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Sep 1999 21:32:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11W4N9-0006XZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:01:15 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11W4N8-0006XU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:01:14 +0100 Received: from [62.172.61.164] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11W4Mv-0000GV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:01:01 +0100 Message-ID: <005301bf09f3$faa232e0$223163c3@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: re Vaino's rx findings and my thoughts Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:55:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Vaino, I can confirm your findings on the AOR 7030+ . I have been using one since March and I have found it just as good as you do. I also have a HF150 and have tried a Palomar LF to 3.5MHz converter. To dispose of the easy one first, the Palomar is not worth any consideration except possible for BC listening, despite being used in front of a good HF transceiver with 300Hz CW filters. The HF150 was much better than I would have expected. It is let down for serious work by a poor shape factor on the SSB filter (it is not available with a cw filter) Tuned to 138.05kHz the signal from DCF39 is not far enought down the skirt (-60dB) and gives a trace on the waterfall display. Its strong signal handling seems to be quite good ( I have a 1KW MF BC station about 2 miles away and 500KW BBC World Service TX site about 10 miles away) It may be worth grafting a cw filter into it after the SSB filter, and maybe cascading another SSB filter to improve the shape. If you remove the battery carriers there is plenty of room for some daughter pcbs. I bought the 7030+ as the first new bit if kit I've bought for about 12 years ( I am fairly stingy) impressed by the specification on strong signal handling which I have suffered with the Kenwood R1000 , FRG7700/8800 and a lot of the kit of that vintage. These are particularly useless as they put in a 20dB attenuator below 2MHz! I must say in operation the 7030 lives up to all its claims, and I think it holds the record as the only bit of kit that has lasted 6 months in my shack without being 'modified' or 'improved' (I don't count fitting the Collins 500Hz filter) The facility I like most is the pass-band-tuning. I select LSB and put the 'carrier' on 138.10KHz (yes it has got 10Hz resolution) and I use the 2.4kHz filter to display band activity on FFTDSP4. The pass-band tuning is stored as a function of the MODE so I can pre-programme the 500Hz filter to interesting parts of the band and drop it over a signal very quickly using the mode change button. Thus on LSB mode (with the 500Hz filter selected) with a -200HZ offset I get the QRS end of the band, on the CW position with about -1.3kHz offset I get the centre of hand-keyed activity at 136.5, and the data mode can be tuned to another area. Ok reading 1.5kHz tone CW is not optimum, but with a quick button toggle I can tune the BFO to bring the tone down whilst not losing the signal. This is maybe a bit fiddly when compared with transceive (I was brought up on 'separates' when I got my ticket!) but it must be a listeners dream (It certainly fulfills this listeners dreams) I haven't managed to prise it off the aerial yet to do much in the way of measurements on it, and my TF2002 sig gen has gone sick. I used a Farnell DSG1 synth audio gen and an attenuator to try to measure the input terminal voltage of stations I am seeing and copying on the waterfall. The problem with this is that it is not intended for low level measurements and has a lot of signal leaking out on the coax screen. The following tests were done at 73.00kHz. The lowest reliable signal I could apply was 0.1uV which gave 22dB S/N on FFTDSP (no aerial noise of course) I estimate that I can copy cw at 20nV and probably read QRS at 5nV. These may not be sensible levels....but it indicates why I am hearing reasonable distances with a fairly useless antenna ( 16t loop with Q of approx 15 !) This was using the internal preamp, and the dynamic range is about 95dB at the frequency in this state. (It uses DDS generation for the local oscillator to keep the reciprocal mixing noise down) Only strong lightening crashes seem to reach this level on my aerial. Stereo audio output (from before the Vol control) with separate level and tone controls (in software) allow you to feed the computer and audio processing, or as I do run FFTDSP on one PC and Spectrogram on another. There is also a 20mV output at the IF (455kHz) available on the accessory socket. There is a mod (official) to give an analogue S-meter output voltage (not linearised by the processor as is the dispay bar graph) On the hum problem there are separate RF and DC grounds. I have the dc supply cable wound round an old TV line-output ferrite. It is possible that grounding the negative side of this dc supply would help. I find it is possible to couple in hum via the coax screen if you do not use an RF ground. This is achieved by putting the ground terminal of the wire-aerial input to a good RF ground. It make a lot of difference. Also make sure your PC case is well grounded. I had one with a faulty 'earth' wire and could get a tingle between the outers of the phono audio leads to the sound card and the lead from the accessory plug of the radio. All I can say is that if there are comedians trading in the earlier 7030 for the 'plus' and there are good priced 2nd hand versions available, you will have to pay a LOT more money to get a better receiver. The 'plus' only has audio notch, more memories and a few other trimmings There is all the info on the AOR web site to do the upgrade (a lot is software) which is well within the capabilities of a confirmed 'Lowfer',and the basic performance is just as good. I'm now looking for a narrower CW filter I can 'bodge'in as there is a spare position (it will take 7 IF filters at 455kHz, it comes with 5 fitted) I guess I might have to make this myself. I have played with ceramic resonators but without success so far. What more can I say ( Oh yes, its designed and manufactured in England not Japan) I'm hooked !! I hope to be able to borrow a Lowe HF225 to compare soon (Watch this space) I hope that lot is interesting and maybe useful. It is an expensive bit of kit for 'just' a receiver, but I have not heard anyone else except Vaino mention it in the LF context. His enthusiastic endorsement proded me to put down my findings. 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15311 invoked from network); 29 Sep 1999 09:05:01 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Sep 1999 09:05:01 +0100 Received: (qmail 18504 invoked from network); 29 Sep 1999 08:10:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Sep 1999 08:10:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WEFW-00033R-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:34:02 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail1-gui.server.ntli.net ([194.168.222.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WEFV-00033M-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:34:01 +0100 Received: from cableol.co.uk ([194.168.18.116]) by mail1-gui.server.ntli.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-33929U70000L2S50) with ESMTP id AAA486 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:19:51 +0100 Message-ID: <37F1BC33.2F685923@cableol.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:13:56 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Weekend report 25/26 September References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike G3XDV wrote: > [My] New antenna has definitely made at least one s-point improvement. The > > difference has been to increase the effective height by (1) reducing the > sag by improving the end supports and (2) changing from one to three top > wires spaced about 0.8m apart. ERP is now approximately 150mW from my > 200W Tx. . . . . . Mike: Using my loop antenna, I heard your signals on Sunday (about 08:30) and again yesterday evening (Tuesday) and can confirm the increased signal strength of about one S-point. A very fine RST 589 signal here. Great work! Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10115 invoked from network); 29 Sep 1999 10:21:03 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Sep 1999 10:21:03 +0100 Received: (qmail 23196 invoked from network); 29 Sep 1999 09:20:01 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Sep 1999 09:20:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WFkj-0003sH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:10:21 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.53] helo=pefletti.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WFkh-0003sC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:10:20 +0100 Received: from default (MMMDXXXV.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.47.235]) by pefletti.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA18862 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:10:29 +0300 (EET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990929121029.0080d100@mail.dlc.fi> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: oh2lx@mail.dlc.fi (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:10:29 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: Re: LF: re Vaino's rx findings and my thoughts In-reply-to: <005301bf09f3$faa232e0$223163c3@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear friends, Your comments, especially that of Alan, G3NYK, were much appreciated. Having been a professional monitor for last 40 years this AR-7030 Plus was my first investment for 'own' receiver. It really was worth it. In a correspondence with AOR folk I stressed the point that I'm only interested in copying weak signals among noise. I wrote a couple of articles about the subject for the SRAL magazine "Radioamatoori" some years ago. There have been during the past decades most commercial receivers available, including Collins, Racal, R&S, Watkins Johnson etc. Most of them have not been designed for 'weak signal' monitoring but for routine monitoring. A number of ham receivers or transceiver are much more suitable for contesting and receiving weak noisy signals In case someone else is interested, let me refer to the doctoral thesis of Peter, SM7CMY with a title: 'Signal Detection in Noise with special reference to telegraphy', University Hospital Lund, Sweden, 1994. On the subject of Ionospheric Cross Modulation (ICM) it was interested to observe Russian FS ICM modulation on both DCF39 138.83 and DFC49 128.93 kHz, most probably caused by 1386 kHz which is located at Kaliningrad area. We have a complete listing of observed ICM cases on LF/MF collected in connection with routine EBU LF/MF monitoring. These monthly BC band observations cover years 1967-1992. The number of observed individual ICM cases is around 120. To identify the real cause and source for 'extra modulation' is in itself one of the most difficult monitoring task. 73 to all from Vaino, OH2LX IARU Region 1 Auroral studies coordinator ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19417 invoked from network); 29 Sep 1999 10:48:22 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Sep 1999 10:48:22 +0100 Received: (qmail 30215 invoked from network); 29 Sep 1999 09:47:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Sep 1999 09:47:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WG5m-00042Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:32:06 +0100 Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WG5k-00042T-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:32:04 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.5) with SMTP is 2147426172 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:31:40 +0200 (MDT) Message-ID: <37F1E090.CAAD99B4@phonakcom.ch> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:49:04 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Toni Baertschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,de-CH,fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: re Vaino's rx findings and my thoughts References: <005301bf09f3$faa232e0$223163c3@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >>From HB9ASB, JN36pt I've also tried the AOR 7030 and it is - from the performance side - a very good receiver (I would never buy it because of the design and operation concept). But a 500Hz filter is to wide for LF. Whenever you can, you should fit a 250Hz or narrower filter in a receiver for serious LF work. I also recommend the use of an additional narrow Audio-filter. 73 de Toni PS. The R-75 seems to be interesting for LF, has anybody already some experience? From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14917 invoked from network); 29 Sep 1999 12:13:23 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Sep 1999 12:13:23 +0100 Received: (qmail 15924 invoked from network); 29 Sep 1999 11:12:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Sep 1999 11:12:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WHW2-0004nY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:03:18 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.32] (helo=Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WHW1-0004nS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:03:17 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.150.149]) by Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA3B90 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:03:08 +0200 Message-ID: <005401bf0a6b$5f1d5700$5096b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Re: Doctoral thesis SM7CMYF Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:10:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All from PA0SE Vaino, OH2LX wrote: >In case someone else is interested, let me refer to the >doctoral thesis of Peter, SM7CMY with a title: >'Signal Detection in Noise with special reference to >telegraphy', University Hospital Lund, Sweden, 1994. It was Peter, DF3LP, who first mentioned this document on the reflector and with the help of PE1AIO, who works at the Leyden University, I was able to obtain copy. But it took many months before it arrived.. It is very interesting and describes a series of tests, conducted with the help of experienced radio amateurs, with purpose to find out how several factors - like signal to noise ratio, sending speed, frequency of the audio note etc. - affect detection and recognition of morse code signals. Also electronic morse decoders were tested. But radio technical aspects are not covered. The thesis has the code ISRN LUMEDW/MERL -- 1038 -- SE Thanks to Peter for the tip. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21149 invoked from network); 29 Sep 1999 12:36:25 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Sep 1999 12:36:25 +0100 Received: (qmail 32630 invoked from network); 29 Sep 1999 11:41:52 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Sep 1999 11:41:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WHih-0004tO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:16:23 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WHig-0004tJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:16:22 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA05751 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:22:59 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990929131638.1e37bd9e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:16:38 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: 136kHz receivers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I can confirm Mike's (G3XDV) conclusion that even a simple attenuator can improve the receiving condidtions a lot. Some months ago I took advantage of a slow-CW transmission of G3XDV (with his old VFO that had the very weak 'FSK-trace') to 'optimize' the attenuator value. Using my inverted-L as receiving antenna, with 25dB attenuation the reception of the weak FSK trace was optimal (100% detectable) while with 0dB attenuation the trace could not be seen at all. The RX used was (and is) a Kenwood TS440 direct at 136kHz and with a 500Hz filter. Using the notch and IF-shift I narrowed the bandwidth a bit, allowing sufficient attenuation of DCF39 while receiving slow-CW at 137.7kHz. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3432 invoked from network); 29 Sep 1999 18:00:55 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Sep 1999 18:00:55 +0100 Received: (qmail 12318 invoked from network); 29 Sep 1999 16:59:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Sep 1999 16:59:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WMX4-0007Pv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:24:42 +0100 Received: from praseodumium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WMX3-0007Po-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:24:41 +0100 Received: from [195.171.251.22] (helo=default) by praseodumium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11WMWx-00046X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:24:35 +0100 Message-ID: <000901bf0a96$8391b600$16fbabc3@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: G3XTZ QRSS beacon on 136.0kHz Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:22:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Heard the 'QRP' beacon signal from Graham G3XTZ this morning at about 1030z, on 136.00kHz with a dot length of about 30secs. Although declared QRP Graham is only about 5dB worse S/N than his normal full power signal. The band was very quiet this morning. Come on guys here is something to play with....how far is he readable. I was using an 8sec integration time on FFTDSP4 (mainly to get the call on the screen) Well done Graham, I hope the PA lasts out, there is a slight sign of a sag at the end of some dashes. Probably the the effect of increased ground losses as all the worms congregate around your earth system for a sauna!! Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1713 invoked from network); 29 Sep 1999 21:00:42 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Sep 1999 21:00:42 +0100 Received: (qmail 25240 invoked from network); 29 Sep 1999 20:06:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Sep 1999 20:06:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WPj4-0000Vz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:49:18 +0100 Received: from tantalum.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.80]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WPj1-0000Vs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:49:16 +0100 Received: from [195.171.240.37] (helo=default) by tantalum.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11WPir-0005AX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:49:05 +0100 Message-ID: <008401bf0ab3$17e3ebe0$16fbabc3@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: re Toni's comments on the 7030 and filters Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:10:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Toni, thanks for the comments....yes I know what you mean, it is a very fiddly rig to operate. I am finding ways of dealing with that and am not having too much trouble. I think I agree with your comments on filters in part. I have found that, after installing the 500Hz filter, I did not get the advantage I expected. It does make copying weak stations a little easier, I can maybe copy about 3dB weaker signal than in the SSB 2.5kHz filter. I would have expected nearer 7dB for a reduction in bandwidth of 5 times. Maybe I am too optimistic! The problem seems to me to be that as the signals approach the noise level the bandpass peaked noise does tend to mask the signal. Not being an experienced CW operator, and as a result probably not having quite so good a filter between the ears, I have learned a few tricks like placing the wanted signal on the shoulder of the filter resonse to make the tone stand out a little more from the filtered noise. Also the use of an acoustic multipath 'filter' on the speaker. I have conventional audio filters at between 150 and 70Hz but find they do not improve the readability of weak signals at all. The DO help if there are other signals in the passband, but only if the QRM-free signal would be readable without the audio filter. Even then I find a notch is often better than a peak. I certainly would like to try a narrower filter for the AOR...so far I cannot find one. Are you aware of a 455kHz filter with a bandwidth of 300Hz or less I could use?? I am quite willing to kludge anything in. I buy kit for keeps and don't care about resale value if it works well. I suspect at this IF I may have to have a little more amplification to counter the insertion loss of a really narrow filter. That probably means I may have to build a small daughter board to drop into the spare filter slot. Filter alignment is by software and automatic, so even if the frequency wasn't quite right, it may not matter too much. 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5390 invoked from network); 29 Sep 1999 21:13:27 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Sep 1999 21:13:27 +0100 Received: (qmail 27070 invoked from network); 29 Sep 1999 20:18:53 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Sep 1999 20:18:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WPwL-0000hF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:03:01 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from premium.inrete.it ([194.116.9.4] helo=mailer.inrete.it ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WPwK-0000hA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:03:00 +0100 Received: from cel266 (pool17-011.dialup.alpcom.it [194.116.17.11]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA00341 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:02:54 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990929220150.00881ca0@mailer.inrete.it> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:01:50 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: LF: 136kHz receivers In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.19990929131638.1e37bd9e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I agree with Toni observing that a 500 Hz filter is too wide for serious weak signal work. I use a Racal 1792, modified with 300 Hz and 100 Hz filters, followed by an audio (analogic) filter. The 100 Hz one, if well designed (no appreciable ringing) helps a lot. I also tried an attenuator in front of the RA1792. In my location I have no need for it; I prefer to reduce the IF gain. The first mixer seems tough enough (103 dB 3' order IMD measured). Vaino, are you sure those RX are not designed for weak signal work? In my opinion it is VERY good. I also tried many others, and I keep the RA1792 as my main RX. 73 - Marco IK1ODO spin@inrete.it Rivalta, ITALY JN35SA (N 45 01' 25.6", E 7 31' 09.4") From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20914 invoked from network); 30 Sep 1999 08:03:15 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Sep 1999 08:03:15 +0100 Received: (qmail 12602 invoked from network); 30 Sep 1999 07:08:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Sep 1999 07:08:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WZvA-0005iZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:42:28 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ns2.to.cnr.it ([150.145.32.2] helo=ccs2.to.cnr.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WZv8-0005iU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:42:27 +0100 Received: from aldo (aldo.to.cnr.it [150.145.34.37]) by ccs2.to.cnr.it with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id TAPG5VQF; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:38:28 +0200 From: "Aldo Marchetto" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: CNR To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:40:46 +1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: Re: LF: re Toni's comments on the 7030 and filters In-reply-to: <008401bf0ab3$17e3ebe0$16fbabc3@default> Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Alan, if I understand well,you are receiving CW by ear, not by Spectrogram. For receiving CW by ears I found very useful a stereo processor, like that described in http://hem2.passagen.se/sm0vpo/use/stereo.htm which allow to "spatially" spread signals (and noise) " in front of you": lower frequency signals are stronger in the left earphone speaker, and higher frequency in the right one. In this way you can simply concentrate your brain in the signal coming from a certain "virtual direction" It's interesting with large filters (e.g. 500 Hz), however I never tryied it with narrower filters. It may need some adjustment... 73 Aldo IZ1ANT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17284 invoked from network); 30 Sep 1999 09:40:01 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Sep 1999 09:40:01 +0100 Received: (qmail 29338 invoked from network); 30 Sep 1999 08:45:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Sep 1999 08:45:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Wbaj-0006YK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:29:29 +0100 Received: from mail04.hostcenter.com ([195.186.64.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Wbai-0006YF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:29:28 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from www303.hostcenter.com (195.186.64.84) by mail04.hostcenter.com (RS ver 1.0.51) with SMTP id 018783 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:29:16 +0200 (MDT) Message-ID: <37F32372.2CE556F3@phonakcom.ch> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:46:42 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Toni Baertschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,de-CH,fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: receivers and filters References: <008401bf0ab3$17e3ebe0$16fbabc3@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Alan, for LF I'm using a commercial US-rig, the Harris RF590. I like it because of it's extremely high frequency stability, high immunity against strong signals (IMD), the 1Hz read out and the low tuning rate (100Hz per revolution) which gives me the illusion of a LF-band as large as 40m, hi. But I got the rig also with a Collins 500Hz/455kHz filter (commercial equipment manufacturers are specifying filter BW often at -3dB and this gives you the illusion to have a 300Hz filter, but in fact it is 500Hz at -6dB) For a better separation of the stations in the narrow LF-band, I replaced it with the FL53A from ICOM. This is a very steep XTAL-filter (unfortunately also very expensive!) and I took no special measures for impedance matching. Drawbacks of the Harris RF590 are: operation also a little bit complicated (commercial radio operators have other needs) and a blow by in the IF-filtering (at least in my version) due to poor design, but fortunately it was easy to modify. I also tried other commercial surplus from Racal, Rockwell-Collins, Watkins-Johnson R&S and Telefunken. They are all very similar when developed in the same period (they all had to fulfill the same MIL standards, I guess). As an additional audio filter I'm using the DSP599zx from Timewave, where I can go down to 10Hz BW (-3dB) if necessary and as matter of fact some CW QSO have only be possible by using this filter and BW between 10 and 35Hz (as the QSO last weekend with G3XDV). Listening to such a filter is not pleasant. They usually don't ring but the filter noise is close to the tone of the expected signal. And of course there is a big gap between theory and practice: the improvement by such a filter is far from the theoretical value! Often I use instead of the DSP-Unit a passive home-brew LC-filter between the RX and the headphones. It's a bandpassfilter with a 11 element Chebyshev LP and a 9 element HP. not so narrow (200Hz), but very pleasant to listen, even under heavy QRN. Finally I have to say that it is not necessary to employ commercial receivers for good results. I've heard most of the UK stations also on my Drake R4B (old tube rig) with home-brew converter (just LPF, Osc and Diode ring mixer) and the above mentioned passive audio filter. The sound is very pleasant (one of the best AGC's I know - better than Collins and most of the mentioned commercial rigs!). The only inconvenience is the lack of frequency accuracy, 73 de Toni From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17665 invoked from network); 30 Sep 1999 11:04:34 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Sep 1999 11:04:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 22559 invoked from network); 30 Sep 1999 10:03:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Sep 1999 10:03:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WcuP-0007DV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:53:53 +0100 Received: from smtp.mail.big-orange.net ([143.179.236.32] helo=Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WcuO-0007DQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:53:53 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.150.240]) by Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA4D6B for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:53:44 +0200 Message-ID: <003801bf0b2a$da1367a0$f096b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Pseudo stereo Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:55:06 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All from PA0SE Aldo, IZ1ANT, wrote: Dear Alan, if I understand well,you are receiving CW by ear, not by Spectrogram. For receiving CW by ears I found very useful a stereo processor, like that described in http://hem2.passagen.se/sm0vpo/use/stereo.htm which allow to "spatially" spread signals (and noise) " in front of you": lower frequency signals are stronger in the left earphone speaker, and higher frequency in the right one. In this way you can simply concentrate your brain in the signal coming from a certain "virtual direction" It's interesting with large filters (e.g. 500 Hz), however I never tryied it with narrower filters. It may need some adjustment... 73 Aldo IZ1ANT I have made such a gadget myself with a "centre frequency" of 900 Hz. It indeed produces a surround effect effect which at first sounds very surprising and promising. But careful and repeated evaluation showed it contributed absolutely nothing to the readibility of a weak signal in noise. Wide or narrow band filtering preceding the pseudo-stereo unit made no difference. I get the best result with my home made passive 35 Hz wide audio bandpass filter (four tuned circuits with coils in pot cores) between the output of the receiver and the headphones. It is a phase-linear design and therefore does not ring. Speeds up to 24 WPM are passed by the filter, but before that my ear/brain system starts ringing.... Butterworth, Chebychev and Cauer (elliptic) filters are not phase-linear and do do ring, though they have a steeper transition between pass- and stopbands. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5535 invoked from network); 30 Sep 1999 13:35:32 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Sep 1999 13:35:32 +0100 Received: (qmail 18807 invoked from network); 30 Sep 1999 12:34:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Sep 1999 12:34:36 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WfGr-0008QS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:25:13 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.53] helo=pefletti.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11WfGp-0008QL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:25:12 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from default (MKCCCXXIV.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.166.124]) by pefletti.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA26632 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:25:05 +0300 (EET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990930152441.0080f3b0@mail.dlc.fi> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: oh2lx@mail.dlc.fi X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:24:41 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: Re: LF: 136kHz receivers In-reply-to: <3.0.3.32.19990929220150.00881ca0@mailer.inrete.it> References: <3.0.1.16.19990929131638.1e37bd9e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The art of listening (band monitoring), Earlier this week I was almost sorry that I once again triggered the discussion about receivers and listening strategies. I did so because AR-7030 Plus - sort of unexpectedly - appeared to offer endless possibilities to improve listening at this lousy qth -- why not move somewhere else then, you don't wish to ask my lady..? By the way, at my last job Racal 1792 was the main tool used for monitoring, band scanning, with Racal DF etc. Some OH friends still have good use for Racal 117 etc. Still, no idea how much AR-7030 and AR-7030+ differ? For mobile type individuals AR sure is easier to carry. After reading all those nice comments there was after all no reason to be sorry. Perhaps some people have gathered some new ideas. Just a few more comments. For our purposes there was seldom any need to make conventional Rx S/N measurements but just a test for minimum indicated (by ear?) rx input level test. Perhaps time has come that only amateurs can any more enjoy copying (by ear?) cw type signals weaker than anyone can expect to be copyable? Not all can enjoy conventional cw which for our generation was obligatory. I sort of remember that Collins type mechanical filter was first introduced in connection with 51J-1 around 1951 (?) We used to have whole string of them, the last one, 51J-4 is still available here but with stuck gears. The cw filter bandwidth has been discussed ever since. Some people like narrow but world famous(?) OH contesters seldom seem to prefer as narrow as 100 Hz. I remember that my late good friend Helge, OH2ZE, then at Motorola built a very narrow filter (1-2 Hz) already in the 70's. Have been following EME & Weak Signal Pages for some time. They talk about receive tests at -171 dBm and even -179 dBm levels; I have a couple of versions of FFTDSP (by AF9Y), also SbFFT v 1.2 (by KW5Q) but for some reason my favorite is Specgram (by PhilvanBaren). I have had more than 10 versions of Gram (by RSHorne). Just like different receivers these programs all have desirable properties suitable for some specific mission. It is amazing how useful these 'SB scanners can be! 73 de Vaino, OH2LX At 22:01 29.9.1999 +0100, you wrote: >Hi all, > >I agree with Toni observing that a 500 Hz filter is too wide >for serious weak signal work. > >I use a Racal 1792, modified with 300 Hz and 100 Hz filters, >followed by an audio (analogic) filter. The 100 Hz one, if >well designed (no appreciable ringing) helps a lot. > >I also tried an attenuator in front of the RA1792. In my >location I have no need for it; I prefer to reduce the IF gain. >The first mixer seems tough enough (103 dB 3' order IMD measured). > >Vaino, are you sure those RX are not designed for weak signal >work? In my opinion it is VERY good. I also tried many others, >and I keep the RA1792 as my main RX. > >73 - Marco IK1ODO ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi