From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17845 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 23:45:06 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 23:45:06 +0100 Received: (qmail 28873 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 22:45:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 22:45:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yTew-0007ah-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:08:46 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yTev-0007ac-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:08:45 +0100 Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id BAA16587; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 01:13:58 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA06256; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 01:07:42 -0400 Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by umrsvr.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA11986; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 01:05:56 -0400 Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 07:05:09 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Soegiono, Gamal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: capacity of wires Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 07:05:08 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello all, here some equations which I found in my book regarding capacity of wires above a ground plane. vertical wire of diameter d[m] and length l[m] lower end being h[m] above ground Cv[pF]=55.6*l / {ln (2*l/d)*SQR[(1+l/(4*h))/(1+3*l/(4*h))]} restriction: d << l test: l=4m h=1m d=2mm Cv = 37.921 pF horizontal wire of diameter d[m] and length l[m] being h[m] above ground Ch[pF]=55.6*l / {ln (2*l/d)*SQR[(SQR(1+(4*h/l)^2)-1)/(SQR(1+(4*h/l)^2)+1)]} restriction: d << l test: l=2m h=10m d=1mm Ch = 14.094 pF Best 73 Gamal Soegiono (SWL) 50N01 / 08E27 / JO 40 fa soegiono@nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20811 invoked from network); 1 Jul 1999 00:00:05 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 1999 00:00:05 +0100 Received: (qmail 14996 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 23:00:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 23:00:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10zTAm-0004L3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:49:44 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10zTAl-0004Ky-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:49:43 +0100 Received: from [195.171.233.167] (helo=default) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10zTCn-0007kL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:51:49 +0100 Message-ID: <004901bec34a$b3099b20$895eac3e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: field strength measurement again Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:43:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Thanks to Nick for the further gen on the Terman 'Measurements..' book, I have not been lucky enough to find that. I would be interested in a copy of that bit if you can manage it. I am QTHR for the last 25 years. To Mike yes I do use the steady signals of the 'beacons' for tests, but what does S9 mean?? Its a strong signal but is it 10uV/m or 1V/m. Most of the radios I have have S-meter sensitivity controls so you can set S9 at whatever you like! I'd love to tell you by how much you have improved your system. There is no doubt you are much stronger with me now. I hesitate to mention the spacer (it would be regarded as 'snipeing' in other areas these days!) but before your mods, the spacer registered a 6dB S/N ratio on FFTDSP4 (which is I think 'in 100Hz bandwidth' ). Now the spacer is a good 10dB S/N and would be copiable as a hand keyed mosre transmission in 2.5kHz bandwidth. It has the advantage of 'fingerprinting' your transmission and I have posted your appearance to my local DX cluster before you have finished sending the call sign in QRS mode. Your main carrier now produces a signal that is on a par with that I receive from John (20dB S/N on FFTDSP4), though the orientation of my loop has some effect. Just a thought as you are using a mixer source...have you tried keying one crystal oscillator? I find that quite clean and stable. It might be an easy mod. After the comments from Dick I'm now off on the track of a Level Measuring Set! I think I know where there is a 20MHz Racal job. Cheers de Alan G3NYK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20960 invoked from network); 1 Jul 1999 00:00:54 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 1999 00:00:54 +0100 Received: (qmail 30128 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 23:01:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 23:01:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10zTAg-0004Kw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:49:38 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10zTAf-0004Kr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:49:37 +0100 Received: from [195.171.233.167] (helo=default) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10zTCj-0007kL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:51:45 +0100 Message-ID: <004701bec34a$b0b68360$895eac3e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: re 137 rtty Marco Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:16:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi Marco I have also logged those kind of appearance and disappearance times for this station. Nearly ever night for a week, so it is very consistent here. I have also run GEOCLOCK for the dates logged and, as I think Dave G3YMC stated earlier, its appearance correlates strongly with the path between Nova Scotia and UK entering total darkness. It drops into the noise as the morning 'twilight' starts. There is a 'false' peak in signal strength in the twilight zones at each end of the 'opening'. I think Nick confirmed the origin of this signal a few weeks ago, I wonder if he has any gen on the aerial and power its running? 73 de Alan G3NYK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27881 invoked from network); 1 Jul 1999 00:39:10 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 1999 00:39:10 +0100 Received: (qmail 20264 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 23:39:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 23:39:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yThk-0007bP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:11:40 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yThj-0007bG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:11:40 +0100 Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id BAA18282; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 01:16:52 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA06502; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 01:10:43 -0400 Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by umrsvr.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA12037; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 01:10:36 -0400 Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 07:09:49 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Soegiono, Gamal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: radiation resistance & reactance Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 07:09:49 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello all, here some equations I found in my book regarding radiation resistance of dipoles and monopoles: the original equation based on current profile on dipole/monopole, all other published equations are derivates therof. l=physical half length of dipole [m] d=physical diameter of dipole [m] w=wavelength in [m] f=radian angle k=2*PI*l/w Rs=120 Ohms / (sin^2(k)*INTEGRAL(f=0 to 0.5*PI){[cos(k*sin(f))-cos(k)]^2/cos(f) df} restriction: l/w =< 0.38 simple Approximation Rs=80 Ohms * [1-1.32*(l/w)^2] * tan^2(PI*l/w) restriction: l/w =< 0.25 more simpler Approximation Rs=790 Ohms * (l/w)^2 restriction: l/w =< 0.14 Rs for Monopole above groundplane is half the dipole value in each of above equation, when l=the physical height of the monopole in [m] Additionally the equations to calculate the antenna reactance: l=physical half length of dipole [m] d=physical diameter of dipole [m] w=wavelength in [m] f=radian angle Zw=120 Ohms * [ln(4*l/d) -1] k=2*PI*l/w Xd=X1d-(Zw/(tan(k))) Xm=X1m-(Zw/(tan(k))) restriction: l/w =< 0.25 X1d=552 Ohms * (l/w)^1.85 if 0.14 <= l/w <=0.25 X1d=156 Ohms * (l/w)^1.22 if l/w < 0.14 X1m=276 Ohms * (l/w)^1.85 if 0.14 <= l/w <=0.25 X1m=78 Ohms * (l/w)^1.22 if l/w < 0.14 Best 73 Gamal Soegiono (SWL) 50N01 / 08E27 / JO 40 fa soegiono@nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7636 invoked from network); 1 Jul 1999 01:35:53 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 1999 01:35:53 +0100 Received: (qmail 27530 invoked from network); 1 Jul 1999 00:36:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Jul 1999 00:36:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yUIl-0007zh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:49:55 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from ns.cro.cz ([193.179.196.2] ident=qmailr) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yUIj-0007zc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:49:54 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27223 invoked from network); 28 Jun 1999 05:49:51 -0000 Received: from fw.cro.cz (HELO ns-int.cro.cz) (193.179.197.2) by ns.cro.cz with SMTP; 28 Jun 1999 05:49:51 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from radiohk.hk.cro.cz (ns.hk.cro.cz [172.27.1.2]) by ns-int.cro.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA04219 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 07:49:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc033hk.hk.cro.cz ([172.27.1.33]) by radiohk.hk.cro.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA07322 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 07:49:39 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by pc033hk.hk.cro.cz with Microsoft Mail id <01BEC13A.C59087C0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz>; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 07:49:37 +-200 Message-ID: <01BEC13A.C59087C0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> From: "OK1FIG" To: "'137 kHz'" Subject: LF: Weekend report 26-27/6/99 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 07:49:36 +-200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi Lowfers! Conditions seemed good this weekend. In spite of this the band was empty. Were you all in Fridrichshaven? I heard only IK5ZPV and DF2PY. I heard DF2PY many times. Wolf, did you make any improvement? I heard you 589 according to S-meter (!) and I could copy you watching needle of S-meter on Sunday morning, no joke. You had far strongest signal I ever heard on the band. I hesitate whether I should prepare TX for weekend comming for first TX trials. This weekend Field Day takes place. Will the band be empty again? The shape of ant modified. Now it is 15 m vertical and top hat hade of three wires 21, 27 and 34 meters. Such an ant is easier for me to be built each Friday and destroy each Sunday. 73! Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16159 invoked from network); 1 Jul 1999 02:33:35 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 1999 02:33:35 +0100 Received: (qmail 2064 invoked from network); 1 Jul 1999 01:34:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Jul 1999 01:34:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yW4e-0000bB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 08:43:28 +0100 Received: from artemis.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.126]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yW4e-0000b6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 08:43:28 +0100 Received: from pc171.geog.le.ac.uk ([143.210.151.171] helo=kate) by artemis.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10yW4c-0003dG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 08:43:27 +0100 Message-ID: <001301bec138$e08ba4d0$ab97d28f@kate.geog.le.ac.uk> From: "Kate Moore" To: "lfgroup" Subject: LF: Weekend report Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 08:36:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Stations worked here over the weekend on 136kHz using normal speed CW: Friday 25/6 G3YMC (06.39: he was 469QRN, gave me 599). Saturday 26/6 PA0LEG (09.27: 569QRN, 549QRN). Sunday 27/6 G3YMC (07.34: 569, 599), G6RO (08.17: 589, 599), G3AQC (08.46: 559, 579), DJ5DI (09.03: 459QRN, 569), G3XDV (09.50: 589, 599). My operating is more or less back to 'normal' now, although summer low activity/high QRN levels are inevitably taking their toll. Static levels on Friday and, particularly, Saturday were very high here, so very few stations were actually worked. Sunday was much better until the rain came mid-morning and detuned the antenna. I really missed having Harry PA0LQ on the band. We had excellent contacts every weekend, sometimes every morning, and it was always re-assuring to hear Harry's strong signal and note with interest what he was working. Let's hope he manages to either placate those involved, or find an alternative location to operate from. Dick, please pass on my regards and appreciation to Harry, along with those from the others on the reflector. I was very pleased to work two new stations over the weekend - G3AQC and PA0LEG - taking my tally of calls worked 2-way on the band to 65. It was particularly nice to get the call from DJ5DI on Sunday morning and make a very good QSO despite the rising QRN levels. Interestingly, this was only 200Hz away from where DF2PY kept calling, but neither Fred or I experienced any problems. Mike G3XDV is now a very good signal, which shows the value of persistent experimentation and development - well done Mike, you should work plenty of DX now....... Regards John G4GVC near Leicester, IO92JP ** TX: Synth + 400W RF from modified 'G3YXM' Mosfet PA ** ** RX: TS-850S with 3 x CW filters and 0.5ppm TCXO ** ** Ant: Inv-L 60m long, 6m high at feed end, 12m high at far end ** From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10447 invoked from network); 1 Jul 1999 05:56:28 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 1999 05:56:28 +0100 Received: (qmail 22749 invoked from network); 1 Jul 1999 04:56:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Jul 1999 04:56:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10zYlM-00076Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Jul 1999 05:47:52 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from dh-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.131] helo=hpdmgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10zYlL-00075w-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Jul 1999 05:47:51 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.5) id AAA00794 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 00:47:47 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 00:47:30 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Weekend QSO HB9ASB To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199907010047_MC2-7B7E-102D@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello Lowfers, after my success being seen in Slow-CW by Mike, G3XDV (no QSO yet) I had another wonderful experience by having a QSO with Toni, HB9ASB. Remember, still my antenna is a mess and my estimated ERP range arround 35 mWatt or less, so I thank Toni for his patience. It took us acouple of overs to get my call through and I had to QRS from 3 seconds to 5 seconds dot length. The QSO took place just at the end of my noise-free window, arround 08.00 UTC. Again, this should encourage everyone who has not the ability to set up a big antenna to try Slow-CW. The antenna I am using currently can be set up in nearly every average garden. BTW, for those, who would like to know more about Slow-CW, there are some good articles for example by G0MRF and G3XDV on the internet, also I have posted a Slow-CW page that is accessible through my homepage (http://www.dk8kw.home.pages.de). Wolf, I tried a couple of times to call you in normal CW before you made your RX improvements. I will try again next weekend. I got my 18m fibre glas telescopic mast and will set it up in the next couple of weeks. This should help me to get from the "weekest signal" that Mike, G3XDV ever successfully copied a little bit higher up to make live a little bit easier. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) BTW: I realized that obviously the packet clusters currently do not distribute all the postings. I have entered a couple of stations I heard (or saw) into DB0FC (137.7 kHz) and in DB0EAM (1800.0 kHz), but none of them appeared in the internet cluster or in the U.K. cluster. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19186 invoked from network); 1 Jul 1999 10:18:45 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 1999 10:18:45 +0100 Received: (qmail 10236 invoked from network); 1 Jul 1999 09:19:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Jul 1999 09:19:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10zck9-0000MY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Jul 1999 10:02:53 +0100 Received: from tk2.ihug.co.nz ([203.29.160.14] helo=smtp2.ihug.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10zck6-0000MT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Jul 1999 10:02:51 +0100 Received: from test (p18-max2.chc.ihug.co.nz [207.214.13.18]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id VAA09009 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 21:02:17 +1200 Message-ID: <006c01bec3a0$768eb440$120dd6cf@test> From: "Dave Brown" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001101bec191$856ec380$9d97b38f@w8k3f0> Subject: LF: Re: Fw: Measuring field strength Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 21:02:32 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit ÿþ< From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28294 invoked from network); 1 Jul 1999 10:59:08 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 1999 10:59:08 +0100 Received: (qmail 15441 invoked from network); 1 Jul 1999 09:59:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Jul 1999 09:59:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10zdR9-0000eo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Jul 1999 10:47:19 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from gwa.fe.bosch.de ([195.254.27.2] ident=firewall-user) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10zdR7-0000ej-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Jul 1999 10:47:18 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gwa.fe.bosch.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA02510 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:48:11 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mailgate.fe.internet.bosch.de( 10.0.4.3) by gwa.fe.bosch.de via smap (V2.1) id xma001808; Thu, 1 Jul 99 11:47:51 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from fez7164.server.bosch.de (FEZ7164.server.bosch.de [128.15.0.164]) by mailgate.fe.internet.bosch.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA14798 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:46:54 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by FEZ7164.server.bosch.de with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <3B25SFQK>; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:46:56 +0200 Message-ID: From: "Hampe Wolfgang \(FRB/FKA1\)" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: AW: Re: Fw: Measuring field strength Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:46:53 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Sorry Dave, but I couldnt read your HTML-Mail....:-( pse dont use HTML in Mail.... 73 Wolf > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Dave Brown [SMTP:tractorb@ihug.co.nz] > Gesendet am: Donnerstag, 1. Juli 1999 11:03 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: LF: Re: Fw: Measuring field strength > > ÿþ > http-equiv=Content-Type> name=GENERATOR>
size=2>Dick,
For your info, both your > messages re measuring field strength did make it to the reflector. >
 
In case anyone wants > to  use the measurement method you outlined with an SLMS, but at > other than 137 kHz, the relationship including the frequency term is as > follows:
 
Loop induced > emf(volts)  = 2*pi*(field strength in v/m)*(loop area in sq. metres)* > (loop turns)/wavelength.
 
size=2>Which for the single turn untuned circular loop case you quoted, > can be simplified to;
 
size=2>Loop induced emf (microvolts) = > 16.449*freq(kHz)*loopdia(m)*loopdia(m)*field strength(v/m)
>
 
Ref: Terman, "Radio Engineering", > Section 11, Para 18.
 
size=2>73
 Dave
>
ZL3FJ
 
 
>
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28037 invoked from network); 1 Jul 1999 13:18:48 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 1999 13:18:48 +0100 Received: (qmail 30388 invoked from network); 1 Jul 1999 12:19:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Jul 1999 12:19:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10zfOx-0001ZA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Jul 1999 12:53:11 +0100 Received: from tk2.ihug.co.nz ([203.29.160.14] helo=smtp2.ihug.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10zfOv-0001Z5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Jul 1999 12:53:09 +0100 Received: from test (p41-max2.chc.ihug.co.nz [207.214.13.41]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA03326 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 23:53:00 +1200 Message-ID: <000401bec3b8$50845080$0200a8c0@test> From: "Dave Brown" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: AW: Re: Fw: Measuring field strength Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 23:53:17 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Wolf I never use HTML deliberately but this one slipped through by virtue of the 'reply in same format' check box being ticked. I would like to blame Microsoft for having too many options, but...... Text of message follows again .. this time in plain text in case it was HTML garbage for others as well! Dick, For your info, both your messages re measuring field strength did make it to the reflector. In case anyone wants to use the measurement method you outlined with an SLMS, but at other than 137 kHz, the relationship including the frequency term is as follows: Loop induced emf(volts) = 2*pi*(field strength in v/m)*(loop area in sq. metres)* (loop turns)/wavelength. Which for the single turn untuned circular loop case you quoted, can be simplified to; Loop induced emf (microvolts) = 16.449*freq(kHz)*loopdia(m)*loopdia(m)*field strength(v/m) Ref: Terman, "Radio Engineering", Section 11, Para 18. 73 Dave ZL3FJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12877 invoked from network); 1 Jul 1999 16:34:42 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 1999 16:34:42 +0100 Received: (qmail 21861 invoked from network); 1 Jul 1999 15:35:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Jul 1999 15:35:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10zids-00030j-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Jul 1999 16:20:48 +0100 Received: from [195.102.240.137] (helo=mserv1b.u-net.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10zidr-00030e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Jul 1999 16:20:47 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10zicv-00079I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 16:19:49 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Thu, 01 Jul 1999 16:04:45 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 16:06:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: field strength measurement again In-reply-to: <004901bec34a$b3099b20$895eac3e@default> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: G3NYK wrote: > To Mike yes I do use the steady signals of the 'beacons' for tests, but what > does S9 mean?? Its a strong signal but is it 10uV/m or 1V/m. Most of the > radios I have have S-meter sensitivity controls so you can set S9 at > whatever you like! I'd love to tell you by how much you have improved your > system. OK, I agree this is very crude system, especially as some rigs, like my IC-706, have black squares representing each S-point or each '10dB' over 9. So there's no prospect of getting real numbers out of it - unless properly calibrated - but it can help as a very crude measure, especially as you know the signals you are checking are not only in the far field but have some sky-wave, too. There's no substitute for doing it right. Of course, a nice compromise is the Selective Level Measuring Set - when I think of the SLMSs and other test gear (capacitance bridge, 1Hz resolution VFOs, LF fundamental crystals) which I put in a skip when I worked for a telecom company a few years ago, it makes me cry!! Thanks for the report on the main signal and the spacer. > Just a thought as you are using a mixer source...have you tried keying one > crystal oscillator? I find that quite clean and stable. It might be an easy > mod. Actually, I still use a straight Clapp VFO and a two-transistor Buffer/Keying stage. I like the two-crystal (XO +VXO) system but haven't got round to building one yet - have tended to concentrate on the size of the signal. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5259 invoked from network); 2 Jul 1999 19:37:34 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 2 Jul 1999 19:37:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 1969 invoked from network); 2 Jul 1999 18:38:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Jul 1999 18:38:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1107jR-0005eJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Jul 1999 19:08:13 +0100 Received: from man-087.dialup.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.41.108] helo=localhost.localdomain ident=rosy) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1107jQ-0005eD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Jul 1999 19:08:13 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from john@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA03516 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 07:34:13 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: john set sender to word.factory@zetnet.co.uk using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-reply-to: <3.0.3.32.19990629042702.02847208@mailer.inrete.it> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 06:34:13 -0000 () From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: 137 kHz RTTY Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: On 29-Jun-99 M. Bruno wrote: ... > It was loud and clear by ear around 0230z (4:30AM CET). Level about 0230z is 0430 CEST, surely? (CET = z + 1 hour, CEST = z + 2 hours) 73 de G3PAI ---------------------------------- E-Mail: John Rabson Date: 01-Jul-99 Time: 06:31:28 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26890 invoked from network); 2 Jul 1999 21:20:14 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 2 Jul 1999 21:20:14 +0100 Received: (qmail 24943 invoked from network); 2 Jul 1999 20:21:11 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Jul 1999 20:21:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1109cP-0006TA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Jul 1999 21:09:05 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from premium.inrete.it ([194.116.9.4] helo=mailer.inrete.it ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1109cO-0006T5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Jul 1999 21:09:04 +0100 Received: from cel266 (pool17-012.dialup.alpcom.it [194.116.17.12]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA16118 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 22:08:58 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990702210939.02b3dc94@mailer.inrete.it> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 21:09:39 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: RE: LF: 137 kHz RTTY In-reply-to: References: <3.0.3.32.19990629042702.02847208@mailer.inrete.it> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: At 06.34 01/07/99 -0000, you wrote: > >On 29-Jun-99 M. Bruno wrote: > >... > >> It was loud and clear by ear around 0230z (4:30AM CET). Level about >0230z is 0430 CEST, surely? (CET = z + 1 hour, CEST = z + 2 hours) > >73 de G3PAI Yes, of course. But it was 4 'o clock ... I was sleeping ... 73 - IK1ODO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5943 invoked from network); 4 Jul 1999 22:22:46 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 4 Jul 1999 22:22:46 +0100 Received: (qmail 6434 invoked from network); 4 Jul 1999 21:23:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Jul 1999 21:23:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 110t9D-0000NK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Jul 1999 21:45:59 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 110t9B-0000NF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Jul 1999 21:45:58 +0100 Received: from [212.140.36.142] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 110t99-0007hv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 21:45:55 +0100 Message-ID: <000201bec65e$0e6e7ce0$8e248cd4@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Andre re Terman copies Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 17:31:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Please accept my apologies Andre, I have not got my windows organised so I can scan received messages whilst typing replies.... hence the bad guess at your name. Nor do I seem to be able to recall a message for edit once its in the 'out-tray'. QTHR is a commonly used abbreviation over this side which means "My QTH is correct in the current Call-Book" I guess from what you say the "Measurements in Radio Engineering" book by Terman sounds like an interesting volume to have. I must put out some enquiries to some of the local 'pre-owned' bookshops. I have been trying to collect copies of the MIT Radiation Labs series, but they are a little hard to find. My Address is Alan.Melia, 67a Deben Avenue, Martlesham Heath, IPSWICH, Suffolk IP5 3QR. Thanks for your offer of the copies, please let me know if there is anything I can find for you in return. 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19419 invoked from network); 5 Jul 1999 17:44:34 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 5 Jul 1999 17:44:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 25879 invoked from network); 5 Jul 1999 16:45:45 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Jul 1999 16:45:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 111BRR-0008UQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Jul 1999 17:18:01 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 111BRQ-0008UL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Jul 1999 17:18:00 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA08050 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 18:23:33 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990705181941.424f53f6@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 18:19:41 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: weekend report 2-4 july MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: One more weekend with very little time for LF as I attended the VERON National ARDF Competition on saturday and sunday. On friday evening I could hear G3YXM (579 despite strong QRN) in QSO with G3AQC (339 because of strong QRN) and could work G3AQC little later. It was 'on the edge' due to the QRN but I got the essentials (calls and report) OK. It was my 48th station in LF, distance just over 400km. 73, Rik ON7YD Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26714 invoked from network); 5 Jul 1999 23:09:47 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 5 Jul 1999 23:09:47 +0100 Received: (qmail 22669 invoked from network); 5 Jul 1999 22:10:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Jul 1999 22:10:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 111GmN-0002Fa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Jul 1999 22:59:59 +0100 Received: from praseodumium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 111GmM-0002FV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Jul 1999 22:59:58 +0100 Received: from [62.172.62.95] (helo=default) by praseodumium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 111GhZ-0007nf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 22:55:01 +0100 Message-ID: <000301bec731$8e935de0$5f3eac3e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: re xtal mixer sources ...G3XDV Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 20:45:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi again Mike I fully agree with your direction of effort into the aerial improvements. Your signal strength has increased a lot since I started listening. On the crystal mixer front, I lashed up a source from crystal modules out of an old Pye Westminster (the fundamental oscillators, usually the TX pcbs) I found that by taking the fixed padding (2 by 18pF) off and leaving the 12pF trimmer, I could connect a differential capacitor across the crystal-trimmer caps swinging one up and the other went down. That way I could cover the whole band with a pair of carefully chosen rocks. The result seemed quite stable but I have not given it exhaustive tests. These units are channel switched by grounding the emitter line so can be keyed directly. The resultant waveform with just one oscillator keyed doesn't look too bad. The most probable problem could be that the differential cap is a single bearing job (A bit of good old Govt surplus) and liable to vibrate mechanically. It might be possible to do the same thing with varactors and a twin gang pot, except that the tuning law would perhaps be a bit odd. 73 de Alan G3NYK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27981 invoked from network); 5 Jul 1999 23:14:15 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 5 Jul 1999 23:14:15 +0100 Received: (qmail 30190 invoked from network); 5 Jul 1999 22:15:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Jul 1999 22:15:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 111GmO-0002Fk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Jul 1999 23:00:00 +0100 Received: from praseodumium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 111GmN-0002Fb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Jul 1999 23:00:00 +0100 Received: from [62.172.62.95] (helo=default) by praseodumium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 111Gha-0007nf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 22:55:03 +0100 Message-ID: <000401bec731$8f8781e0$5f3eac3e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Cluster spots for 3rd/4th July GB7DXM Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:52:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi all, not very much again this week, I suspect contests and QRN have taken their toll. It may be that the continental clusters are not forwarding messages through during contests, or perhaps the UK clusters are not accepting them. I know I did see spots for other bands posted from Spain, Italy and Germany so some links were working. (These were responses to requests for last 20 spots) G3NYK de GB7DXM 5-Jul-1999 2037Z Type H or ? for help > 137.0 ANY 1-Jul-1999 0923Z BODY qrv for a 137 KHz sked n G3NYK de GB7DXM 5-Jul 2038Z > 1800.0 G3XTZ 3-Jul-1999 1216Z calling oz1kmr 136.7khz 1800.0 G3XDV 3-Jul-1999 1213Z QRS cq 137.72khz 1800.0 G3XDV 27-Jun-1999 1131Z QRS cq 137.73khz 1800.0 G4GVC 27-Jun-1999 0830Z wkg G6RO 137.2khz 1800.0 G4GVC 27-Jun-1999 0829Z wkg G6RO 1800.0 DF2PY 27-Jun-1999 0827Z cq 136.9khz 1800.0 DJ5BV 26-Jun-1999 0728Z 137.700 kHz cq Slow-CW G3NYK de GB7DXM 5-Jul 2038Z > As you see the last 5 are from last weekend. 73 de Alan G3NYK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17268 invoked from network); 6 Jul 1999 01:15:35 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Jul 1999 01:15:35 +0100 Received: (qmail 1511 invoked from network); 6 Jul 1999 00:16:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Jul 1999 00:16:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 111Ilt-0003JD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Jul 1999 01:07:37 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mailout02.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.150]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 111Ils-0003J1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Jul 1999 01:07:36 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fwd02.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.162]) by mailout02.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 111Ilp-0001oE-00; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 02:07:33 +0200 Received: (087321565-0001(btxid)@[212.184.145.226]) by fwd02.btx.dtag.de id ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 02:07:26 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 02:07:26 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000301bec731$8e935de0$5f3eac3e@default> Subject: Re: LF: re xtal mixer sources ...G3XDV X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-online.de From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Dear Alan, interesting Your crystal mixer exciter, but depending on a special diferential variable capacitor. But I would not recommend varactor tuning unless You manage to keep the r.f. voltage across the varctors rather low. In my crystal mixer exciter I have chosen standard microprocessor crystals 5200 kHz and 5068.8 kHz. The 5200 kHz CO is fixed, and the 5068.8 kHz is a VXO with a coil (in reality a molded choke) of 100 microhenries in series with an old brass Philips trimmer of about (as far as I can remember) 15 pF variable capacity, shunted by a 10 pF ceramic disc. With this arrangement I can also cover the whole band. A different variable capacitor may need a different series coil, of course. However, I also have not made exhaustive stability tests so far. Keying is accomplished in the emitter of a third transistor operating as a mixer. This allows soft keying to be accomplished. The emitter is blocked for LF only, and two resistors of 390 ohms in series are used (this sum giving optimum mixer gain in my case). The connection between both resistors is blocked by a 6,8 to 10 MFD tantalum electrolytic. The LF in the collector circuit is passed through a lowpass filter to a final emitter follower (all transistors BC548B in my case). DF3LP is employing basically the same circuit using 4 MHz crystals but is keying one of the oscillators, as You do. He has already done much QRS operation and is very pleased with the stability achieved. HW? 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB Alan Melia schrieb: > On the crystal mixer front, I lashed up a source from crystal modules out of > an old Pye Westminster (the fundamental oscillators, usually the TX pcbs) I > found that by taking the fixed padding (2 by 18pF) off and leaving the 12pF > trimmer, I could connect a differential capacitor across the crystal-trimmer > caps swinging one up and the other went down. That way I could cover the > whole band with a pair of carefully chosen rocks. The result seemed quite > stable but I have not given it exhaustive tests. These units are channel > switched by grounding the emitter line so can be keyed directly. The > resultant waveform with just one oscillator keyed doesn't look too bad. > The most probable problem could be that the differential cap is a single > bearing job (A bit of good old Govt surplus) and liable to vibrate > mechanically. It might be possible to do the same thing with varactors and a > twin gang pot, except that the tuning law would perhaps be a bit odd. > 73 de Alan G3NYK > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12380 invoked from network); 6 Jul 1999 09:58:46 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Jul 1999 09:58:46 +0100 Received: (qmail 1868 invoked from network); 6 Jul 1999 08:59:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Jul 1999 08:59:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 111Qe1-0006Zs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Jul 1999 09:32:01 +0100 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 111Qdp-0006Ze-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Jul 1999 09:31:50 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 111Qck-0003Jt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 09:30:43 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Tue, 06 Jul 1999 09:19:10 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 09:21:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Activity report 29/6 - 4/7 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Rather heavy going this week with high static levels but managed some QSOs. Tuesday 29 June First time QSO with PA0CC (gave 559; got 439). Wednesday 30 June QSO with G3AQC (gave 589; got 559 - 2 S-points up on previous contact). Saturday 3 July Very low local QRM - first time in over a week, but QRN very bad after big storm in night. Heard PA0LEG (439); G3XTZ (5 9+10 9); OZ1KMR (469) disappointed he did not hear me; and G4GVC (599). Worked G6RO (469; 479 - 2 S-points up on previous QSO) Sunday 3 July Still low local QRM but bad QRN. Saw HB9ASB on Spectrogram screen. His QRSs was strength 'O' (=100%) and audible at S1. This was the only mode available for weak signals because of the huge static crashes. Called by G3YMC but QRM too bad. Sorry , Dave. Heard G3YXM (5 9+10 9 - strongest signal heard from him). Worked G4GVC (599; 589). Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12674 invoked from network); 6 Jul 1999 10:00:00 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Jul 1999 10:00:00 +0100 Received: (qmail 5944 invoked from network); 6 Jul 1999 09:01:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Jul 1999 09:01:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 111Qdv-0006Zp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Jul 1999 09:31:55 +0100 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 111Qdp-0006Zf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Jul 1999 09:31:50 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 111Qck-0003Jy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 09:30:43 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Tue, 06 Jul 1999 09:23:57 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 09:25:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Spectrogram X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Having been initially enthusiastic about the latest version of Spectrogram, I have tried it on several real signals (only tested it on weak carriers before) and I have now gone back to the previous version. The ability to define the colours/shades that relate to signal strength is good but some of the other controls appear to allow much less flexibility. Has anyone found the best settings yet? The main idiot trap is the averaging control which must be set =much= lower than on the earlier version (for 4s dots, it needs to be about 4 rather than 20) or it will ignore dots and fill in the gaps between dashes. And there seems to be no easy way to adjust the width of the displayed dots/dashes without altering the bandwidth. Am I doing something wrong? Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26140 invoked from network); 6 Jul 1999 17:29:34 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Jul 1999 17:29:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 25218 invoked from network); 6 Jul 1999 16:30:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Jul 1999 16:30:46 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 111XyA-0001Ns-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Jul 1999 17:21:18 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.146] helo=spamgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 111Xy7-0001Nl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Jul 1999 17:21:16 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.1) id MAA14957 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:20:43 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:19:58 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Spectrogram To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199907061220_MC2-7C0E-EBD6@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Mike, G3XDV wrote >Has anyone found the best settings yet? Well, I have found some settings but I am not really shure if they are the best ones (follow the "Slow-CW" link on my homepage so see them), those were the ones I used in the past couple of days, without averaging at all. However, I had a lot of trouble with spherics, so there might be better settings. I have not yet tried a direct comparison between the "Radio-Version" and the new 5.0.5 version. Who knows better settings? Vy 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16554 invoked from network); 8 Jul 1999 10:00:38 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 8 Jul 1999 10:00:38 +0100 Received: (qmail 8675 invoked from network); 8 Jul 1999 09:02:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Jul 1999 09:02:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1129d8-0000zh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Jul 1999 09:34:06 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.31] (helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1129d6-0000zc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Jul 1999 09:34:04 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.151.62]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA2639 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:33:55 +0200 Message-ID: <003e01bec91d$2fb0c0e0$9b97b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Fw: Fw: Home made field strength meter Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:37:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: To All I have constructed a portable field strength meter for the 136 kHz band. This makes it possible to determine your radiated power. I have tried to send a description of the instrument via the RSGB LF-Group e-mail reflector but it failed. Probably the message was too large to be accepted by the reflector. The description consists of six attachments to the e-mail. One attachment is text in Word.Perfect 5.1. The other five are the circuit diagram and five photographs, all JEPG-files. I have sent this to a number of amateurs whose e-mail address I happened to know. One of those was Peter, DF3LP. He replied as follows: -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Peter W. Schnoor Aan: Dick Rollema Datum: woensdag 7 juli 1999 23:37 Onderwerp: Re: Fw: Home made field strength meter >Hello dear Dick, > >Thanks for description, interesting! I have uploaded all of >your files to my laboratory FTP-server including a converted >version of your WP5.1-text (to HTML, since I'm running LINUX >not WINxx). > >Publish the FTP-address if you want. Unfortunately I'm >unable to upload them to qsl.net since it seems to be too >busy... > >Here the address: > > ftp://ftp.rz.uni-kiel.de/pub/nephro/nephlab/lp/pa0se/ > >(Since I'm very busy with my scientific work I have no time >working on LF these months. Hope to be back soon...) > >Greetings from Kiel, >73 es gl de Peter >DF3LP I am very grateful to Peter because this gives you the opportunity to download the description of my field strength meter from the address given. If for some reason this fails send me your e-mail address and I will e-mail the description to you 73, Dick, PA0SE JO22GD D.W. Rollema V.d. Marckstraat 5 2352 RA Leiderdorp Tel. +31 71 589 27 34 E-mail: d.w.rollema@gironet.nl or pa0se@amsat.org From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3614 invoked from network); 9 Jul 1999 00:07:24 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 9 Jul 1999 00:07:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 32498 invoked from network); 8 Jul 1999 23:08:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Jul 1999 23:08:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 112N4S-0006x2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Jul 1999 23:55:12 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 112N4R-0006wx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Jul 1999 23:55:12 +0100 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-127-110.bellatlantic.net [151.200.127.110]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA10497; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 18:54:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3784B74E.86DDF016@bellatlantic.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 10:35:58 -0400 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: d.w.rollema@gironet.nl, "AMRAD Tacos" Subject: Re: LF: Fw: Fw: Home made field strength meter References: <003e01bec91d$2fb0c0e0$9b97b38f@w8k3f0> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello Dick and other LF enthusiasts, We will place your description and attachments on the AMRAD reflector http://www.amrad.org Regards Andre' ********************************** Dick Rollema wrote: > I have constructed a portable field strength meter for the 136 kHz band. > This makes it possible to determine your radiated power. > I have tried to send a description of the instrument via the RSGB LF-Group > e-mail reflector but it failed. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27088 invoked from network); 9 Jul 1999 14:40:06 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 9 Jul 1999 14:40:06 +0100 Received: (qmail 25499 invoked from network); 9 Jul 1999 13:41:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Jul 1999 13:41:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 112abP-0004Wy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Jul 1999 14:22:07 +0100 Received: from smtp.mail.big-orange.net ([143.179.236.31] helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 112abN-0004Wt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Jul 1999 14:22:05 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.151.123]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAF48AB for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:22:02 +0200 Message-ID: <010001beca0e$9bbd9b40$7b97b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Fw: Fw: Home made field strength meter Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:19:25 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Andre' Kesteloot Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org CC: d.w.rollema@gironet.nl ; AMRAD Tacos Datum: vrijdag 9 juli 1999 1:26 Onderwerp: Re: LF: Fw: Fw: Home made field strength meter >Hello Dick and other LF enthusiasts, >We will place your description and attachments on the AMRAD reflector >http://www.amrad.org >Regards >Andre' >********************************** >Dick Rollema wrote: > >> I have constructed a portable field strength meter for the 136 kHz band. >> This makes it possible to determine your radiated power. >> I have tried to send a description of the instrument via the RSGB LF-Group >> e-mail reflector but it failed. > Thanks very much Andre'. This is very much appreciated. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14719 invoked from network); 9 Jul 1999 15:56:30 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 9 Jul 1999 15:56:30 +0100 Received: (qmail 3398 invoked from network); 9 Jul 1999 14:57:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Jul 1999 14:57:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 112bv4-00059h-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Jul 1999 15:46:30 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mailout01.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.149]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 112bv3-00059c-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Jul 1999 15:46:29 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fwd11.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.171]) by mailout01.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 112bui-0001D0-00; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 16:46:08 +0200 Received: (320057114934-0001(btxid)@[62.158.46.212]) by fwd11.btx.dtag.de id ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 16:45:52 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 16:45:52 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: DK7UY@geocities.com, gjerning@flash.net Subject: LF: New TX-ant and RX-loop qrv X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 320057114934-0001@t-online.de From: "DF2PY" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello Lowfers ! Just matched the vertical again for transmit and tuned the loop with xtal-filter and preamp.Xtal filter has now 12 db insertion loss and the preamp is regulated for not quite compensating it-reason is that i am on my TS940 temporarily as my FT 1000 d has a problem in the logic circuits-that puts me into a bad spot for receiving on LF.But as my TS 940 was good enough for 160m WAS- i hope it beats the challenges of LF as well. But bad enough the gods of thunder and lightning are not on vacation yet and seem to party all weekend long in this part of Germany-forecast again says T & L & heavy rain. hear You guys soon --... ...-- df2py From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19168 invoked from network); 9 Jul 1999 23:43:11 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 9 Jul 1999 23:43:11 +0100 Received: (qmail 5910 invoked from network); 9 Jul 1999 22:44:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Jul 1999 22:44:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 112ixp-0008Hh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Jul 1999 23:17:49 +0100 Received: from praseodumium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 112ixo-0008Hc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Jul 1999 23:17:49 +0100 Received: from [195.171.236.11] (helo=default) by praseodumium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 112isx-0007Bz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 23:12:47 +0100 Message-ID: <001201beca58$b19de380$0becabc3@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Andre....copies received thanks Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 23:13:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi Andre, many thanks the copies arrived this morning, I have not had time to pore over them yet, but they look interesting. This is obviously a later book than the edition of Radio Engineering I have. It cites a 1949 microwave measurements book. I am spoilt for choice of projects now, now with Dick's nice article and now your gen! I have made an improvement to my loop by doing away with the coax tap, and using a JFET amp folowed by a BJT emitter follower to drive the coax. This seems to have made between 6 and 9 dB improvement. Don't hesitate to ask if I can return the favour. 73 de Alan G3NYK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25829 invoked from network); 10 Jul 1999 00:26:21 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 1999 00:26:21 +0100 Received: (qmail 11158 invoked from network); 9 Jul 1999 23:27:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Jul 1999 23:27:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 112jue-0000Md-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 00:18:36 +0100 Received: from merlins.force9.net ([195.166.128.23]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 112jud-0000MY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 00:18:35 +0100 Received: (qmail 9715 invoked from network); 9 Jul 1999 23:25:05 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by merlins.force9.net with SMTP; 9 Jul 1999 23:25:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 23969 invoked from network); 9 Jul 1999 23:27:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO prstesv1) (212.56.120.155) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Jul 1999 23:27:29 -0000 Message-ID: <003e01beca61$c567b860$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Dick's LF field stregth measuring design. Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 00:20:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Dick, This looks very good, I will put on the website if it's OK with you? Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15735 invoked from network); 10 Jul 1999 09:15:19 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 1999 09:15:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 2033 invoked from network); 10 Jul 1999 08:16:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jul 1999 08:16:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 112ryL-0003nj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 08:54:57 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.32] (helo=Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 112ryK-0003ne-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 08:54:56 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.151.41]) by Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA2AF1 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 09:54:52 +0200 Message-ID: <001c01becaaa$13715c80$2997b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Dick's LF field stregth measuring design. Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 09:32:27 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Dave Aan: LF Group Datum: zaterdag 10 juli 1999 1:42 Onderwerp: LF: Dick's LF field stregth measuring design. >Dick, > >This looks very good, I will put on the website if it's OK with you? > >Dave G3YXM. > >Of course Dave, I would be more than pleased! 73, Dick, PA0SE > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22231 invoked from network); 10 Jul 1999 10:09:07 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 1999 10:09:07 +0100 Received: (qmail 10130 invoked from network); 10 Jul 1999 09:10:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jul 1999 09:10:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 112t0W-0004EE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 10:01:16 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout10.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.158]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 112t0V-0004E9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 10:01:15 +0100 Received: from fwd02.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.162]) by mailout10.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 112t0U-0002Sn-00; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 11:01:14 +0200 Received: (320057114934-0001(btxid)@[62.158.46.174]) by fwd02.btx.dtag.de id ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 11:01:13 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 11:01:13 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Saturday morning X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 320057114934-0001@t-online.de From: "DF2PY" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello Lowfers ! This morning i put DJ5BV and DF0WD in the log. Saw me spotted by G3NYK but heard nothing-will try hard to enhance rxing. Think G3XDV tried calling-but here nil !Whats the ant and pwr ? 73 de wolf From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24844 invoked from network); 10 Jul 1999 10:32:42 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 1999 10:32:42 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 11726 invoked from network); 10 Jul 1999 09:33:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jul 1999 09:33:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 112tNl-0004ML-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 10:25:17 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 112tNk-0004MG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 10:25:16 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from pagnell.demon.co.uk ([158.152.83.229]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 112tNf-000D52-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 09:25:15 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 10:06:13 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "John W Gould" Subject: LF: Bandplanning: QRS frequencies .... MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Some of you will remember that there was a discussion about the best choice of frequencies for slow-CW at last October's LF Forum (at the RSGB Internations HF & IOTA Convention). Since then RSGB and DARC have put forward the main outcomes which our friend Peter Bobek summarised earlier this year on this reflector: "During the RSGB-HF-Convention (fall 1998) we set up the following recommendation (using the frequencies listed below): 136,458 (+/- 3 Hz), the LORAN-free window is only 6 Hz wide. 137,600-137,800 (most of the activity is between 137,650 - 137,750 kHz)" The RSGB HF Committee is due to meet next Saturday. That committee inter alia looks after 136kHz matters. I would like to know whether there is still general agreement that this is the appropriate "bandplan" to put forward, at national society level, at the Region 1 IARU Conference which meets soon. I have the feeling that no-one has really taken up the "LORAN-free window" and that normal CW tends to occur in that part of the band. However, maybe we should try and reserve it for operation into Northern Europe where LORAN is likely to be a continuing problem. You may also prefer that we adopt the narrower the high-frequency allocation, that is 137.65kHz to 137.75kHz. Comments please, preferbly direct, to g3wkl@pagnell.demon.co.uk unless debate is seen necessary, in which case use the reflector. 73 John -- John Gould, G3WKL G3WKL @GB7BEN.#43.GBR.EU g3wkl@pagnell.demon.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 75 invoked from network); 10 Jul 1999 11:23:51 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 1999 11:23:51 +0100 Received: (qmail 15248 invoked from network); 10 Jul 1999 10:25:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jul 1999 10:25:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 112uAg-0004iR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 11:15:50 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ah-img-2.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.153] helo=hpamgaab.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 112uAf-0004iM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 11:15:49 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaab.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.5) id GAA25451 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 06:15:18 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 06:12:24 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Bandplanning: QRS frequencies .... To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199907100612_MC2-7C82-CEE2@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: John, I am answering your request to suggest a band plan for our small longwave band throught the reflector, since I believe that a discussion would help to come to an agreement. I read about the recommendation and the LORAN free window around 136.458 kHz but I have never seen a Slow-CW QSO down there. I do observe the band since two or three years now and found that indeed, main Slow-CW activity can be found around 137.700 kHz. Depending upon the setting of Spectrogram, the complete range between 137.650 and 137.750 can be observed at one glance. I believe that a second Slow-CW window would cause confusion. Additionally, also in that upper window there are some nice LORAN-free spots. I have made a list of LORAN frequencies that should be avoided when seeking contact with stations near a coast, where LORAN is to strong (http://www.dk8kw.home.page.de). Also on my homepage I have published a kind of "bandplan" that is based upon my own observations, of course from the persepective of Northern Germany. I propose to set up a voluntary band plans as follows: 135.700 - 136.000 kHz Testing frequencies, such as short-term beacon transmissions, for example for field strength measurements, or for local QSOs. This range seems to be difficult to use for QSOs since there is obviously a lot of QRM. So this range might be good to set up short-term test beacon transmissions to test antennas, measuring field strength, QSOs with very local character, etc. without disturbing other QSOs on the band. 136.000 - 137.000 kHz normal CW, with center of activity at 136.500, additionally possibly a "cross-band frequency" might be established, such as 136.900 kHz for people seeking answer on a different band. 137.000 - 137.300 kHz PSK31, with 137.150 being the main operating frequency (analog to the shortwave PSK31 frequencies 1838.150, 3580.150, 7035.150, 10140.150, etc.) and RTTY. 137.300 - 137.600 kHz for future use 137.600 - 137.800 Slow-CW, with 137.700 as main center of activity and "calling frequency" Please feel free to discuss my proposal. Best regards Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28070 invoked from network); 10 Jul 1999 15:39:46 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 1999 15:39:46 +0100 Received: (qmail 1858 invoked from network); 10 Jul 1999 14:41:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jul 1999 14:41:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 112yAu-0006Rn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 15:32:20 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mailout01.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.149]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 112yAs-0006Ri-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 15:32:19 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fwd10.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.170]) by mailout01.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 112yAr-0006SD-00; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 16:32:17 +0200 Received: (087321565-0001(btxid)@[193.158.171.63]) by fwd10.btx.dtag.de id ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 16:32:13 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 16:32:13 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: Saturday morning July 10th X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-online.de From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello all, in QTH JN68GN, 120 km ENE of Munich, wx has been overcast and rainy, and band condx were rather quiet, with occasional crashes only. Worked HB9ASB 06.48 to 06.59 UTC, received 449, sent 549. Toni also considered the band quiet and condx good. DF9SD (from the Stuttgart area) was beaconing on 137.6 kHz. Around 08.18 UTC could pick up the cq call of G3YXM on 136.6 kHz RST 339 QSB. DF0WD called G3YXM but no reply. Heard DF2PY around 08.14 UTC RST 569, and from 08.22 UTC copied his QSO with DF0WD RST 439. After this I tried to contact him but no reply. >>From 08.33 UTC onward copied the qso between DF0WD (RST 439, Wolf, QTH Spenge, [NW of Bielefeld] JO42FD, 20 W out, 250 m LW ant) and DJ5BL (RST 339, Jupp, QTH Jo4?QL [probably JO41QL, this would mean north of Kassel]). At 09.34 UTC I have replied to a cq call by DF0WD and raised a QRZ? but he could not copy the signal calling him. DF0WD has been heard once more at 11.05 UTC but at that time the QRN level had inceased noticeably. All this gives the impression that I should find ways to increase my ERP by two S numbers - This reminds me of a report of DJ1HG, now living in Munich, who had been an army operator in the second world war. With a 1.5 kW LF transmitter there had been no problems keeping CW contact between Hungary and Berlin. Unfortunately he cannot give any details about the aerial and ground system of his army station in Hungary, at that time obviously having been a pure operator. Tomorrow I will not be on the air - family event (christening of my second grand-son). 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29976 invoked from network); 10 Jul 1999 15:59:03 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 1999 15:59:03 +0100 Received: (qmail 28381 invoked from network); 10 Jul 1999 15:00:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jul 1999 15:00:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 112yUR-0006a3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 15:52:31 +0100 Received: from mashie.force9.net ([195.166.128.30]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 112yUP-0006Zy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 15:52:30 +0100 Received: (qmail 13561 invoked from network); 10 Jul 1999 14:50:44 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 1999 14:50:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 8763 invoked from network); 10 Jul 1999 15:01:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO prstesv1) (212.56.120.67) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jul 1999 15:01:24 -0000 Message-ID: <003e01becae4$3a466a00$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Re: Re: Dick's LF field stregth measuring design. Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 15:45:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Dick's article is on the www at: http://www.picks.f9.co.uk/pa0se.htm Or at http://www.wireless.org.uk/pa0se.htm Please let me know of any problems Dick. I just imported the document straight into my web authoring program so there shouldn't be any mistakes but you never know! Dave G3YXM >> >>This looks very good, I will put on the website if it's OK with you? >> >>Dave G3YXM. >> >>Of course Dave, I would be more than pleased! > >73, Dick, PA0SE >> > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1897 invoked from network); 10 Jul 1999 16:18:04 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 1999 16:18:04 +0100 Received: (qmail 31250 invoked from network); 10 Jul 1999 15:19:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jul 1999 15:19:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 112ymd-0006ju-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 16:11:19 +0100 Received: from merlins.force9.net ([195.166.128.23]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 112ymb-0006jp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 16:11:18 +0100 Received: (qmail 5506 invoked from network); 10 Jul 1999 15:17:52 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by merlins.force9.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 1999 15:17:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 9183 invoked from network); 10 Jul 1999 15:20:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO prstesv1) (212.56.120.67) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jul 1999 15:20:21 -0000 Message-ID: <004f01becae6$df761820$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Bandplanning: QRS frequencies .... Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 16:14:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: John, Geri et al I agree with most of the ideas expressed about a band plan for 136 with the following comments on Geri's bandplan. I like the 135.7 - 136 for beacons and tests, it is under used any noisy down there! Perhaps the normal CW bit should extend from 136 to about 137.3 as the pressure of activity sometimes means you need a bit more space... plus the fact that around 137 is the clearest part of the band in some areas. Can we can lump PSK31 and "future developments" together into 137.3 - 137.6 for the present. I think I'm the only station on 136 to have had more than one QSO using it! Slow CW at the top of the band seems to be the accepted norm and there is space between the Loran lines there too. The magic figure of 136.458 was only suggested as it was the biggest gap. Once you have Spectrogram up and running you can see the lines and slide between them. Please let's not be heavy handed about the implementation of any band plan that is decided. We must remember that experimenters may only have one crystal in the junk box to start with and telling them they're in "the wrong part of the band" is not going to fill them with enthusiasm! 73 Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 151 invoked from network); 11 Jul 1999 08:46:12 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 1999 08:46:12 +0100 Received: (qmail 4464 invoked from network); 11 Jul 1999 07:47:32 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jul 1999 07:47:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113E9S-0004zZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 08:35:54 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113E9R-0004zU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 08:35:53 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from dennison.demon.co.uk ([194.222.239.33]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 113E9O-00025m-0K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 07:35:52 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 17:01:47 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Mike Dennison" Subject: Re: LF: Saturday morning In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: In message , DF2PY writes >This morning i put DJ5BV and DF0WD in the log. >Think G3XDV tried calling-but here nil !Whats the ant and pwr ? Yes, Wolf, I did call and have called many times. Others also calling you - for instance G3XTZ who puts out a very good signal. I am running about 140mW erp from a 200W Tx and an Inverted-L 16m high and 20m long. I have worked several DLs and HB using slow CW, and PA, ON, GW, F, and GM (max distance = 600km) using normal speeds. I look forward to our first QSO. -- Mike, G3XDV www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3154 invoked from network); 11 Jul 1999 09:31:05 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 1999 09:31:05 +0100 Received: (qmail 6968 invoked from network); 11 Jul 1999 08:32:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jul 1999 08:32:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113Euo-0005Ki-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 09:24:50 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ([195.186.1.75]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113Euo-0005Kd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 09:24:50 +0100 Received: from phonakcom.ch ([195.186.13.87]) by bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ( with ESMTP id AAA51A3 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 10:24:34 +0200 Message-ID: <378854D9.9980C4B3@phonakcom.ch> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 10:24:57 +0200 From: "Toni Bdrtschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Saturday morning References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: >From HB9ASB, JN36pt Nice Signal from you, Mike. I could copy your slow CW signal by ear! It is stronger than ever before. 73 de Toni Mike Dennison schrieb: > > In message , DF2PY online.de> writes > >This morning i put DJ5BV and DF0WD in the log. > >Think G3XDV tried calling-but here nil !Whats the ant and pwr ? > > Yes, Wolf, I did call and have called many times. Others also calling > you - for instance G3XTZ who puts out a very good signal. I am running > about 140mW erp from a 200W Tx and an Inverted-L 16m high and 20m long. > I have worked several DLs and HB using slow CW, and PA, ON, GW, F, and > GM (max distance = 600km) using normal speeds. I look forward to our > first QSO. > > -- > Mike, G3XDV > www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5116 invoked from network); 11 Jul 1999 09:56:50 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 1999 09:56:50 +0100 Received: (qmail 30081 invoked from network); 11 Jul 1999 08:58:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jul 1999 08:58:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113FGi-0005Tf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 09:47:28 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ([195.186.1.75]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113FGi-0005Ta-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 09:47:28 +0100 Received: from phonakcom.ch ([195.186.13.87]) by bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ( with ESMTP id AAA5B08 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 10:47:22 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37885A32.77A68E32@phonakcom.ch> Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 10:47:46 +0200 From: "Toni Bdrtschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Good weekend condx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: >From HB9ASB, JN36pt Good condx this weekend. Almost no QRN and a lot of activity. PA0SE had a nice 559 down here. Also good signals from G4GVC, OK1FIR (SlowCW), DJ1ZB, IK5ZPV, HB9DCE, DL9EM, G3XDV and DF2PY (100uV at the receiver input!). Does anybody know the purpose of the DF9SD beacon around 137.500? Best time here is now before 07:00 UT. After 08:00UT QSB is increasing and signals getting weaker. 73 de Toni From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5667 invoked from network); 11 Jul 1999 10:03:05 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 1999 10:03:05 +0100 Received: (qmail 8875 invoked from network); 11 Jul 1999 09:04:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jul 1999 09:04:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113FPd-0005Xg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 09:56:41 +0100 Received: from merlins.force9.net ([195.166.128.23]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113FPc-0005Xb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 09:56:40 +0100 Received: (qmail 1327 invoked from network); 11 Jul 1999 09:03:14 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by merlins.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 1999 09:03:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 27726 invoked from network); 11 Jul 1999 09:05:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO prstesv1) (212.56.120.78) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jul 1999 09:05:42 -0000 Message-ID: <001501becb7b$b0c6ff40$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: DF2PY Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 09:59:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Excellent 569 signal here this morning from Wolf. Called by myself and G3XTZ with no response. Is the loop receiving from our direction Wolf? I find that I must throw the main antenna off-resonance whilst receiving otherwise all I get is the same noise re-radiated from the main antenna. 73, Dave G3YXM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13712 invoked from network); 11 Jul 1999 23:50:03 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 1999 23:50:03 +0100 Received: (qmail 15624 invoked from network); 11 Jul 1999 22:51:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jul 1999 22:51:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113S2Y-0002Yz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 23:25:42 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113S2X-0002Yu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 23:25:41 +0100 Received: from [195.171.239.189] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 113S2W-0002Cf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 23:25:40 +0100 Message-ID: <000101becbec$1df57ae0$bdefabc3@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster posting 9-11 July at GB7DXM Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 23:21:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: The mornings this weekend seemed reasonably static free at this qth. I am afraid my log of a signal seen on FFTDSP4 for OK1FIG was over optimism. The trace turned out to be a weak harmonic of my VGA frame signal, which went away when the monitor was switched off. Dave G3YXM called Wolf a couple of times on Saturday afternoon (1540Z and 1607Z) that I heard, but was not heard by Wolf. Dave must be one of the strongest signals out of the UK. I had assumed when I bought my Hyundai Low Radiation monitor that the Low-rad refered to ionising radiation, i.e.X-rays from the faceplate, but it seems not, the low rad refers to electromagnetic radiation. It is certainly livable with on 136, whereas the other VGA and SVGS monitors I use, totally destroy the band for listening. This might be a help for anyone contemplating Spectrogram listening. This weekend's posting to my local cluster GB7DXM as follows. 136.3 DL9EM 11-Jul-1999 0735Z cq 136.8 DF0WD 10-Jul-1999 0931Z 136.6 G3YXM 10-Jul-1999 0901Z 549 in JO30 136.6 G3YXM 10-Jul-1999 0901Z 549 in JO30 137.7 G3XDV 10-Jul-1999 0842Z cq slow-cw 137.7 DF3LP 9-Jul-1999 1720Z cq slow-cw 137.7 OK1FIG 9-Jul-1999 1006Z tnx qso my 1.st OK om 137 137.7 OK1FIG 9-Jul-1999 0916Z cq (no rx ?) G3NYK de GB7DXM 11-Jul 2133Z > 1800.0 IK5ZPV 11-Jul-1999 2057Z 136.7 khz (Rx 551 - GNI) 1800.0 G3XDV 11-Jul-1999 0953Z QRS cq 137.70khz 1800.0 G3XDV 11-Jul-1999 0953Z QRS cq 137.70khz 1800.0 DF9SD 11-Jul-1999 0913Z TEST 137,8 KHz 519 inJN49HE 1800.0 G3XDV 10-Jul-1999 0800Z QRS cq 137.7khz 1800.0 G3XDV 10-Jul-1999 0746Z calling df2py 136.8 1800.0 DF2PY 10-Jul-1999 0744Z cq 136.8 khz 1800.0 OZ1KMR 9-Jul-1999 1507Z cq 136.48khz 1800.0 G4GVC 9-Jul-1999 1506Z wkg g6nb 137.05khz 1800.0 DF2PY 9-Jul-1999 1402Z CQing on 136.9 kHz 1800.0 ?? 9-Jul-1999 0947Z OK? just detect in noise 137. 1800.0 DJ5BV 9-Jul-1999 0823Z QRS CQ 137.71khz 'O' G3NYK de GB7DXM 11-Jul 2135Z > 73 de Alan G3NYK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21118 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 00:40:40 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 00:40:40 +0100 Received: (qmail 22499 invoked from network); 11 Jul 1999 23:42:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jul 1999 23:42:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113T5K-0003Ai-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 00:32:38 +0100 Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl ([194.109.30.145]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113T5J-0003Ad-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 00:32:37 +0100 Received: from v3q4v1 (dc2-isdn868.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.151.100]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA14944 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 01:32:36 +0200 (CEST) From: "M. Sanders" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Spectrogram Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 01:30:41 +0200 Message-ID: <000001becbf5$642f4c80$64976dc2@v3q4v1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Dear Mike, G3XDV and rsgb_lf_group readers I have done some testing with the new Spectogram software. I was able to make a sound recording and test some different settings this morning while monitoring Mike's solid signal on 137.7kHz. Signals appear to be more than 10 dB over the noise level but still no copy by ear. Please visit my homepage if you are interested in the recording of the signals and the spectogram pictures. I have also put pictures on the page from the Spectogram Windows showing the settings. It is a little hard to put everything into writing HI :=). Anyone with improved settings or tips please come forward. I am working with a MV61 levelmeter (Thanks dear Gerri!!) and a TS850s receiver as a MF unit connected to an e-field probe as antenna. For reference I measure the DCF38 power level on 138.82kHZ = -44dBm (s9 +29dB) Last weak I noticed the power level going up suddenly by 3-4dB with practically no QSB around midnight local time (22:00utc). Does anyone know if they double the output during the night or is the increase due to propagation (skywave adding extra signal)? Despite relatively low band-noise i heard only a few stations this morning: DF2PY caling CQ 589. PA0SE (589) in QSO with G4GVC (569). My homepage is : http://www.xs4all.nl/~misan/ Best 73's from Michael Sanders, PA3BSH mailto:pa3bsh@amsat.org > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]namens > Mike Dennison > Verzonden: dinsdag 6 juli 1999 10:26 > Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Onderwerp: LF: Spectrogram > > > Having been initially enthusiastic about the latest version of > Spectrogram, I have tried it on several real signals (only tested it on > weak carriers before) and I have now gone back to the previous > version. The ability to define the colours/shades that relate to > signal strength is good but some of the other controls appear to > allow much less flexibility. > > Has anyone found the best settings yet? The main idiot trap is the > averaging control which must be set =much= lower than on the > earlier version (for 4s dots, it needs to be about 4 rather than 20) or > it will ignore dots and fill in the gaps between dashes. And there > seems to be no easy way to adjust the width of the displayed > dots/dashes without altering the bandwidth. Am I doing something > wrong? > > > > Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) > http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9554 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 04:08:39 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 04:08:39 +0100 Received: (qmail 16973 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 03:10:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 03:10:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113WHh-0004YY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 03:57:37 +0100 Received: from teapot27.domain5.bigpond.com ([139.134.5.174]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113WHg-0004YT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 03:57:37 +0100 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by teapot27.domain5.bigpond.com (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id ta719647 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:56:13 +1000 Received: from MOIP-A-002-pool-93.tmns.net.au ([139.134.91.93]) by mail5.bigpond.com (Claudes-Whacko-MailRouter V2.3a 9/416598); 12 Jul 1999 12:56:13 Message-ID: <000d01becc0a$988a6ae0$5d5b868b@graeme> From: "Graeme Zimmer" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000101becbec$1df57ae0$bdefabc3@default> Subject: LF: Re: DX Cluster posting 9-11 July at GB7DXM Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:02:28 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: > I had assumed when I bought my Hyundai Low Radiation monitor that the > Low-rad > refered to ionising radiation, i.e.X-rays from the faceplate, but it seems > not, the low rad refers to electromagnetic radiation. It is certainly > livable with on 136, whereas the other VGA and SVGS monitors I use, totally > destroy the band for listening. This might be a help for anyone > contemplating Spectrogram listening. Alan this is very useful information......... I am contemplating buying a laptop for Spectrogram use (etc) in the field, and I would be very grateful if people would let me know of their experience with laptops, especially which ones are quiet and which ones are noisy on LF........ Also which ones have twelve volt adapters available..... And for that matter, which ones have truly S.B. compatible sound cards built in... 73 ................ Zim ................ VK3GJZ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14753 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 05:14:15 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 05:14:15 +0100 Received: (qmail 25185 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 04:16:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 04:16:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113XMG-00057L-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 05:06:24 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [203.96.92.3] (helo=mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113XME-00057D-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 05:06:23 +0100 Received: from [202.27.181.221] by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990712040321.DDPY112692.mta2-rme@[202.27.181.221]> for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 16:03:21 +1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <378966D9.366@xtra.co.nz> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:54:01 +1200 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Low radiation? References: <000101becbec$1df57ae0$bdefabc3@default> <000d01becc0a$988a6ae0$5d5b868b@graeme> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: > > I had assumed when I bought my Hyundai Low Radiation monitor that the > > Low-rad > > refered to ionising radiation, i.e.X-rays from the faceplate, but it seems > > not, the low rad refers to electromagnetic radiation. It is certainly > > livable with on 136, whereas the other VGA and SVGS monitors I use, > totally > > destroy the band for listening. This might be a help for anyone > > contemplating Spectrogram listening. It is my understanding that "low radiation" is mostly concerning the CRT magnetic flux (necessary for CRT spot deflection). Low radiation means that as far as is practicable the sweep flux is internal to the case? Whatever, the sawtooth sweep can cause bad harmonic interference in the LF band. Even though I am mostly receiving around 181/182 kHz, a strong emission from a PC monitor close to 188 kHz effectively paralyses my noise blanker (which has a wider IF than the main receiver IF). Playing around with refresh rates can shift the scan frequencies, however when it shifted, the harmonic fell below the wanted signal by about the same amount and still paralysed my noise blanker. My QTH had fairly bad pulse noise from a high voltage power line and the noise blanker, when working, significantly improves weak signal reception. Bob From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19641 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 06:20:47 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 06:20:47 +0100 Received: (qmail 1454 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 05:22:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 05:22:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113YOW-0005WW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 06:12:48 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ah-img-4.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.158] helo=hpamgaad.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113YOV-0005WR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 06:12:48 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaad.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.5) id BAA19094 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 01:12:37 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 01:12:14 -0400 From: "Dave Sergeant" Subject: LF: PA0SE Field Strength Meter To: "rsgb_lf_group" Message-ID: <199907120112_MC2-7CA3-1A8F@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Dick's field strength meter looks interesting - well done Dick. Not sure whether it would detect much of my QRPP set up at 1km! I wonder how this direct conversion receiver works as a general purpose 136 receiver. I suspect it is probably a little lacking in gain, but perhaps Dick can comment. I need to sort out a suitable receiver for portable use, possibly for an Alderney trip where there is a 15kg air luggage limit. Thanks to Peter DF3LP for putting these on his FTP site, now I believe on other sites. To speed download it might be useful to ZIP the files into a single ZIP file. 73s Dave G3YMC sergeantd@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19724 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 06:21:42 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 06:21:42 +0100 Received: (qmail 1603 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 05:23:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 05:23:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113YPj-0005Wg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 06:14:03 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.146] helo=spamgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113YPi-0005Wb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 06:14:02 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.1) id BAA18503 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 01:13:57 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 01:12:16 -0400 From: "Dave Sergeant" Subject: LF: Bandplans To: "rsgb_lf_group" Message-ID: <199907120112_MC2-7CA3-1A92@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Although I am in favour of keeping the top 100Hz or so of the band for slow CW, as per current usage, I do not think we should have any other sort of restrictive bandplanning. With current usage it is just not necessary and with the narrowness of the band flexibility is required at times of high usage (eg Sunday mornings). Although as has been pointed out some stations are crystal controlled (not a problem with stations who like me use transverters), more significant is antenna bandwidth. Most of us have narrow bandwidth transmit antennas, mine is about 200Hz wide. Until I get round to making a remote tuned matching unit changing the antenna resonance is inconvenient. This is why I am often forced to work split frequency. Bear in mind, for this reason, when testing antennas it is necessary to do it on the frequency it resonates on and on which it will normally be used. There is some weak QRM on 136.0 but this is not strong enough to prevent QSOs there. I suggest therefore that we keep things largely as they are, with a bandplan confirming the upper slow CW slot, but with the rest of the band allocated to normal CW. Other modes such as PSK31 (in very little use at present) can share with normal CW, with a 'recommended centre of activity'. ps. As an aside, it would help when sending mail to the reflector, to clearly identify who the mail is from, and give a return e-mail address for direct replies. 73s Dave G3YMC sergeantd@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22020 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 06:51:31 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 06:51:31 +0100 Received: (qmail 30046 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 05:52:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 05:52:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113Ysj-0005iw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 06:44:01 +0100 Received: from mailout01.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.149]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113Ysi-0005ir-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 06:44:00 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fwd10.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.170]) by mailout01.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 113Yse-00041n-00; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:43:56 +0200 Received: (320057114934-0001(btxid)@[62.158.46.207]) by fwd10.btx.dtag.de id ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:43:42 +0200 Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:43:42 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: DK7UY@geocities.com References: <001501becb7b$b0c6ff40$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> Subject: Re: LF: DF2PY X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 320057114934-0001@t-online.de From: "DF2PY" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi Dave ! That is an interesting aspect to detune tx antenna while rx-ing.I need to try that,because sometimes my noisefloor is very high.The three big lf-transmitters in my neighbourhood are giving me the creeps. The loop is ready and i need to build a different preamp for it-had a conventional 3 stage bipolar,but want to change to dual gate mosfet. Yesterday the mixer unit in my tx died,so i lost most of the activity time.Additional factor is that i receive with the ts 940 at the moment which is much poorer than the ft 1000 d. I decided to not further improve the tx antenna as most people seem to hear me ok. The only fear is,that there might be a certain limitation as to where i can lower my background noise,due to the proximity of the LF broadcast !! Peter (SK) was always complaining about the same in his location. Anyways i`ll do my best. 73 and good dx to everyone de df2py From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25266 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 07:39:54 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 07:39:54 +0100 Received: (qmail 14230 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 06:41:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 06:41:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113YkU-0005hG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 06:35:30 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226] helo=gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113YkT-0005gm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 06:35:29 +0100 Received: by gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id HAA20034; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:36:32 +0200 (MET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Message-ID: From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" To: "'rsgb_lf_group'" Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:35:27 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hallo Group, On sunday morning I heard DF2PY (579) and DL9EM (539) calling CQ. A very weak station answered to DF2PY´s call. I identified only PA0.. The beacon of DF9SD is still sending since april. I can hear it hear 24 hours with 529 to 559. Tried to contact DF9SD but i could not find a valid adress. Last weeked 3. 4.July i made some tests with my improved RX at the portable qth of DL0UL. The band was much quiter regarding the intermodulation interferences but there were a lot of thunderstorms around. We ( DL0UL/p) are looking forward to trie a LF Fieldday with an improfed antenna and RX system in the autumn. 73 de Wolf ( DL1SAN) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25866 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 07:47:06 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 07:47:06 +0100 Received: (qmail 15428 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 06:48:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 06:48:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113ZkI-00066H-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:39:22 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from ns.cro.cz ([193.179.196.2] ident=qmailr) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113Zk7-00066C-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:39:11 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1172 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 06:39:08 -0000 Received: from fw.cro.cz (HELO ns-int.cro.cz) (193.179.197.2) by ns.cro.cz with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 06:39:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from radiohk.hk.cro.cz (ns.hk.cro.cz [172.27.1.2]) by ns-int.cro.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA05006 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:39:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc033hk.hk.cro.cz ([172.27.1.33]) by radiohk.hk.cro.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA03028 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:39:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by pc033hk.hk.cro.cz with Microsoft Mail id <01BECC42.01DCADA0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz>; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:39:08 +-200 Message-ID: <01BECC42.01DCADA0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> From: "OK1FIG" To: "'137 kHz'" Subject: LF: Sound of DF2PY in OK Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:39:07 +-200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: I recorded DF2PY with his huge signal (file is about 1 MB). I can send it via e-mail to anybody on request. Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28182 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 08:10:53 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 08:10:53 +0100 Received: (qmail 1447 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 07:12:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 07:12:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113Zia-000667-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:37:36 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from ns.cro.cz ([193.179.196.2] ident=qmailr) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113ZiZ-000662-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:37:35 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1163 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 06:37:28 -0000 Received: from fw.cro.cz (HELO ns-int.cro.cz) (193.179.197.2) by ns.cro.cz with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 06:37:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from radiohk.hk.cro.cz (ns.hk.cro.cz [172.27.1.2]) by ns-int.cro.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA04993 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:37:27 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc033hk.hk.cro.cz ([172.27.1.33]) by radiohk.hk.cro.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA03069 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:37:27 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by pc033hk.hk.cro.cz with Microsoft Mail id <01BECC41.C6574060@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz>; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:37:28 +-200 Message-ID: <01BECC41.C6574060@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> From: "OK1FIG" To: "'137 kHz'" Subject: LF: First QSO on 136 kHz from OK!!! Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:37:27 +-200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello Lowfers! I have made my first QSO's on 136 kHz: 9.7.1999 0940 UTC DJ5BV 10.7.1999 0750 UTC HB9ASB Both with Slow-CW. I experienced a lot of troubles because of windy weather during weekend. Strong wind destroyed my Marconi T-ant for two times. On saturday morning we had "black-outs" on our cottage as well. I heard DF2PY and IK5ZPV. I called them for many times but with no success. I used home made TX of G3YXM's style with output of 50 Watts only. My antenna wasn't perhaps tuned properly because I had no facility to measure antenna current. I tried only one thing. I put small bulb 6.3V 300 mA to antenna feed. It burned pretty white so I guess antenna current was at least 0.5 A. Antenna and also grounding system is improved now, take a look at http://www.mujweb.cz/WWW/OK1FIG/cottage.htm. After these improvements I experienced also a little cross-modulation and Loran C interferencies. Because of changing job I will be perhaps off the reflector. for some time. I sign-in again ASAP with a new e-mail address. 73! Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7611 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 09:11:06 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 09:11:06 +0100 Received: (qmail 31826 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 08:12:57 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 08:12:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113ayF-0006cI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:57:51 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113ayE-0006cD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:57:50 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA13489 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:03:29 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990712095928.2e0f2444@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:59:28 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Bandplanning: QRS frequencies .... In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: At 10:06 10/07/99 +0100, G3WKL wrote: >You may also prefer that we adopt the narrower the high-frequency >allocation, that is 137.65kHz to 137.75kHz. As long as traffic on 136kHz is at the actual level I prefer 137.6 - 137.8 for slow-CW. Although almost all activity is located arround 137.7 the lower 'border' (137.6) makes it easier to filter out strong 'normal-CW'. Regarding the upper 'border' I think that 137.75 only will create a 50Hz 'waste'. Besides that some hams (eg. IK1ODO) used to operate arround 137.78kHz 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6707 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 11:27:33 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 11:27:33 +0100 Received: (qmail 21932 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 10:28:57 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 10:28:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113dAo-0007e5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:18:58 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113dAg-0007dw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:18:54 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA13576 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:24:14 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990712122014.324f021e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:20:14 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: weekend report 9-11 july 1999 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: The first time since some weeks I had the time to spend some hours in the shack last weekend. Due to late-night activities (barbeques) I missed the early morning and so the low-QRN period. But even during the day/evening these was some activity. Stations heard : G3YXM (579), PA0SE (589), DF2PY (589), DJ5BV (569-QRS), HB9ASB (549), G4GVC (559), G3XTZ (579), IK5ZPV (559), PA0LEP (579, wkd as nr. 49), G3YMC (429, strong QSB), G3XDV (549). I can confirm that G3XDV is about 6dB stronger than some weeks ago, whatever you did Mike it was worth it (and if it is not a new PA I curious what you changed). Most puzling was the signal of G3YMC, during his QSO with G3XDV he came all the sudden 'out of nothing', was 429 here for a few minutes and disapeared again. I think this is the 3rd time I noticed this fenomena on his signal. Congrats to Dick (PA0SE) for his superb article on LF 'radiated power' measurements. So measuring what you get radiated semms not so difficult after all. And thanks to Dave for putting it on the web, I support the suggestion to make the article and pictures downloadable as 1 ZIP-file. 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7001 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 11:28:53 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 11:28:53 +0100 Received: (qmail 29318 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 10:30:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 10:30:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113dCq-0007fV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:21:04 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ([195.186.1.75]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113dCo-0007f4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:21:03 +0100 Received: from phonakcom.ch ([195.186.111.79]) by bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ( with ESMTP id AAA7511 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:20:49 +0200 Message-ID: <3789C4CD.E708851C@phonakcom.ch> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:34:53 +0200 From: "Toni Baertschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Bandplanning: QRS frequencies .... References: <3.0.1.16.19990712095928.2e0f2444@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: >From HB9ASB, JN36pt I think our LF-Band is to narrow to waste some space at the edges or to reserve band space for future modes. For a well equipped station it is absolutely no problem to operate 5 Hz or closer to the band edge. So we should use also the last 50Hz of the band for Slow CW operation and we should avoid to split up the band in small portions for every possible purpose. To use the low band edge for tests is a good idea and despite the Greek RTTY station there are still some clean spots down there if you employ narrow filtering. Regarding the B.W. of the antennas: It's interesting that some stations have antennas with only 200Hz B.W. How do you get this high Q-value? My antenna covers the whole band and I'm adjusting the SWR with a "LF-matchbox" in the shack. This is helpful, when soil condx (dry, wet, frozen) and nearby trees (summer, winter) are changing the resonance by several kHz! I am a little bit surprised to learn, that some stations still working with Xtals, since it should be cheap, fast and easy to build a stable VFO for this band. Or am I missing an argument? 73 de Toni From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26097 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 12:53:00 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 12:53:00 +0100 Received: (qmail 15746 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 11:54:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 11:54:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113eVe-0008IW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:44:34 +0100 Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113eVa-0008IJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:44:30 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #34) id 113fPq-0005uq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:42:38 +0000 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:41:25 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:43:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: weekend report 9-11 july 1999 In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.19990712122014.324f021e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: ON7YD wrote: > I can confirm that G3XDV is about 6dB stronger than some weeks ago, > whatever you did Mike it was worth it (and if it is not a new PA I curious > what you changed). Thanks Rik for the report. I made two changes: I raised the far end of the antenna from 9m to about 15m, and I got more RF out of the pa by foced-air cooling it (standing a fan heater next to it!!). I have two improvements scheduled: at present the top horizonatl section droops by about 2m in the middle becuase one mast is flexible fibreglass. An aluminium mast will allow me to increase the tension on the wire and reduce the droop. It will also allow two top wires instead of one. I also have plans for about 3dB more power. Both of these require time which is in short supply at present. Hope to be a bigger sig by next winter. > Most puzling was the signal of G3YMC, during his QSO with G3XDV he came all > the sudden 'out of nothing', was 429 here for a few minutes and disapeared > again. > I think this is the 3rd time I noticed this fenomena on his signal. I have noticed that stations using loop antennas on transmit (I think that is only G3YMC, G2AJV and sometimes GW4ALG) can have much more QSB at a distance of a few hundred km than those using Marconis. This QSB is quite rapid, a minute or two - whereas the QSB on DCF (138.82) is very slow indeed, often an hour or more from peak to trough. I presume this means that there is a large amount of RF going straight upwards from a loop, so there is more ionospheric interference over a short distance. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26640 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 12:56:03 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 12:56:03 +0100 Received: (qmail 16438 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 11:57:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 11:57:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113eVd-0008IU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:44:33 +0100 Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113eVa-0008IK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:44:31 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #34) id 113fPq-0005us-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:42:39 +0000 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:27:06 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:29:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Weekend report 10/11 July X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Good weekend with low static and fairly low electrical QRM (everyone out enjoying the sun rather than watching TV), but high wind resulted in the antenna being lowered both afternoons. Hearing DF0WD brought my 'heard' total to 65 on 136kHz. Saturday 10 July Very low QRM and QRN at start of day. Heard G3YXM (5 9+10 9); DF0WD (a new one at 219); DF2PY (569); PA0SE (579); G8RW (599). Worked G4GVC (gave 599, got 589). Sunday 11 July Another very quiet morning at start but local noise came up after half an hour. Heard PA0SE (579); G4GVC (599); DF2PY (579), G3YXM (5 9+10 9) Worked G3YMC (549, 599) but local noise was a problem. Report by e-mail from HB9ASB that he can now hear my QRSS signals by ear - thanks, Toni. Only a matter of time (and me getting up early enough) before we have a real CW QSO. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10638 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 16:20:03 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 16:20:03 +0100 Received: (qmail 26743 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 15:21:56 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 15:21:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113hht-0001DE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 16:09:25 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gatea.bbc.co.uk ([132.185.132.10] helo=bbcgate.bbc.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113hhq-0001D6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 16:09:22 +0100 Received: from sunf0.rd.bbc.co.uk (ddmailgate.rd.bbc.co.uk [132.185.128.104]) by bbcgate.bbc.co.uk (8.8.5/8.7.2) with SMTP id QAA27966 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 16:09:19 +0100 (BST) Received: from pc523 ([172.28.38.1]) by sunf0.rd.bbc.co.uk; Mon, 12 Jul 99 16:09:13 BST X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990712160752.00984370@sunf0> X-Sender: simonlh@sunf0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 16:07:52 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Simon Lloyd-Hughes" Subject: Re: LF: Bandplanning: QRS frequencies .... In-reply-to: <199907100612_MC2-7C82-CEE2@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: What ever happens please keep it simple. At 06:12 10/07/99 -0400, you wrote: >John, > >I am answering your request to suggest a band plan for our small longwave >band throught the reflector, since I believe that a discussion would help >to >come to an agreement. > >I read about the recommendation and the LORAN free window around 136.458 >kHz but I have never seen a Slow-CW QSO down there. I do observe the band >since two or three years now and found that indeed, main Slow-CW activity >can >be found around 137.700 kHz. Depending upon the setting of Spectrogram, the > >complete range between 137.650 and 137.750 can be observed at one glance. >I believe that a second Slow-CW window would cause confusion. Additionally, > >also in that upper window there are some nice LORAN-free spots. I have made > >a list of LORAN frequencies that should be avoided when seeking contact >with >stations near a coast, where LORAN is to strong >(http://www.dk8kw.home.page.de). > >Also on my homepage I have published a kind of "bandplan" that is based >upon >my own observations, of course from the persepective of Northern Germany. > > >I propose to set up a voluntary band plans as follows: > > >135.700 - 136.000 kHz >Testing frequencies, such as short-term beacon transmissions, for example >for field strength measurements, or for local QSOs. This range seems to >be difficult to use for QSOs since there is obviously a lot of QRM. So this >range >might be good to set up short-term test beacon transmissions to test >antennas, >measuring field strength, QSOs with very local character, etc. without >disturbing >other QSOs on the band. > > >136.000 - 137.000 kHz >normal CW, with center of activity at 136.500, additionally possibly a >"cross-band frequency" might be established, such as 136.900 kHz >for people seeking answer on a different band. > > >137.000 - 137.300 kHz >PSK31, with 137.150 being the main operating frequency (analog to the >shortwave PSK31 frequencies 1838.150, 3580.150, 7035.150, >10140.150, etc.) and RTTY. > > >137.300 - 137.600 kHz >for future use > > >137.600 - 137.800 >Slow-CW, with 137.700 as main center of activity and "calling frequency" > > >Please feel free to discuss my proposal. > > >Best regards > >Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) > > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12536 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 18:38:27 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 18:38:27 +0100 Received: (qmail 19228 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 17:40:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 17:40:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113jd1-00023p-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 18:12:31 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com ([198.81.17.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113jcw-00023h-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 18:12:28 +0100 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id lVWZa11075 (533) for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:11:40 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <3c9b7197.24bb7bcb@aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:11:39 EDT Subject: Re: LF: PA0SE Field Strength Meter To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: In a message dated 7/12/99 1:18:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sergeantd@compuserve.com writes: << To speed download it might be useful to ZIP the files into a single ZIP file. >> A good thought. We will be doing that at the lwca.org site, where the information is also mirrored. In addition, we have implemented another approach to speed up access for those who wish to view the article in HTML form. Smaller versions of the seven accompanying figures are included in the Web document, which can be clicked to download the full-size image if or when the reader desires. The URL is: http://www.lwca.org/library/global/pa0se/fsm.htm We haven't previously publicized hosting this article, since between the time we wrote to Dick directly and the time we received his reply, the other folks made their offers here on the reflector. However, I, for one, do not mind being marginally redundant as long we can still be useful. :) Our site has plenty of server space and bandwidth, for the sole purpose of disseminating information on longwave radio to anyone who is interested. Any LW enthusiast who has information to share is welcome to submit it for inclusion, either as the primary archive, or as a mirror site if the information is also being hosted elsewhere. (All we request is that it be your own work and not violate the copyrights of others.) If it is a large file, or there are multiple attachments, FTP would be a better approach than email. Contact webmaster@lwca.org to submit material or to obtain a suitable URL for uploads. 73, John KD4IDY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6020 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 20:44:34 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 20:44:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 4781 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 19:46:27 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 19:46:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113lqN-0002yW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:34:27 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from premium.inrete.it ([194.116.9.4] helo=mailer.inrete.it ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113lqL-0002yP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:34:25 +0100 Received: from cel266 (pool17-018.dialup.alpcom.it [194.116.17.18]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA07762 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:34:17 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990712203203.02c0c738@mailer.inrete.it> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:32:03 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: Bandplanning: QRS frequencies .... In-reply-to: <3.0.5.32.19990712160752.00984370@sunf0> References: <199907100612_MC2-7C82-CEE2@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: At 16.07 12/07/99 +0100, you wrote: >What ever happens please keep it simple. > Agreed ... complex band plans will not be memorized (and respected). The upper 200 Hz for QRSS are fine for me. Also the lower side for testing and short-time beaconing. The lower 300 Hz are unusable here because of the Greek RTTY (50 to 100 microV this evening). About PSK31 and/or digital modes ... I plan to build a linear TX this summer and be ready to do some tests. To set a band plan now seems a little premature. What about the 200 Hz before the QRSS, I mean 137.400 - 137.600, that is, 137.500 for a suggested, non exclusive center of activity? Antenna Q: mine has a loaded Q around 100. About 200 Hz per side without retuning. I plan to build a remote motor drive for the variometer. 73 - Marco IK1ODO spin@inrete.it From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed Return-Path: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 20744 invoked from network); 13 Jul 1999 07:30:18 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Jul 1999 07:30:18 +0100 Received: (qmail 27327 invoked from network); 13 Jul 1999 06:31:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Jul 1999 06:31:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113vm1-0007Jl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 07:10:37 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ns.cro.cz ([193.179.196.2] ident=qmailr) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113vm0-0007Jg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 07:10:36 +0100 Received: (qmail 27593 invoked from network); 13 Jul 1999 06:10:34 -0000 Received: from fw.cro.cz (HELO ns-int.cro.cz) (193.179.197.2) by ns.cro.cz with SMTP; 13 Jul 1999 06:10:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from radiohk.hk.cro.cz (ns.hk.cro.cz [172.27.1.2]) by ns-int.cro.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA12323 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:10:33 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc033hk.hk.cro.cz ([172.27.1.33]) by radiohk.hk.cro.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA05024 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:10:30 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by pc033hk.hk.cro.cz with Microsoft Mail id <01BECD07.2D358560@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz>; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:10:31 +-200 Message-ID: <01BECD07.2D358560@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> From: "OK1FIG" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: DX Cluster posting 9-11 July at GB7DXM Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:10:30 +-200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Dear Alan. Yes, it was me! It is supprising for me that my QRPP can be heard in U.K. I used PA about 50W RF only (made during 3 hours into a paper box) and my antenna was not quite exactly tuned a that time. My locator was JO80CH. Are you able to reckon the distance? What is the record for this mode? 73 Petr, OK1FIG ---------- Od: Alan Melia[SMTP:Alan.Melia@btinternet.com] Odesláno: 12. cervence 1999 0:21 Komu: rsgb_lf_group Predmet: LF: DX Cluster posting 9-11 July at GB7DXM The mornings this weekend seemed reasonably static free at this qth. I am afraid my log of a signal seen on FFTDSP4 for OK1FIG was over optimism. The trace turned out to be a weak harmonic of my VGA frame signal, which went away when the monitor was switched off. ... ... ... 73 de Alan G3NYK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26572 invoked from network); 13 Jul 1999 08:17:44 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Jul 1999 08:17:44 +0100 Received: (qmail 815 invoked from network); 13 Jul 1999 07:19:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Jul 1999 07:19:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113wf6-0007iK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:07:32 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ([195.186.1.75]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113wf5-0007iF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:07:31 +0100 Received: from phonakcom.ch ([195.186.13.219]) by bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ( with ESMTP id AAA7CE for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:07:19 +0200 Message-ID: <378AE8F5.BE1D9B49@phonakcom.ch> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:21:25 +0200 From: "Toni Baertschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: First QSO on 136 kHz from OK!!! References: <01BECC41.C6574060@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: >From HB9ASB, JN36pt Hello Petr, many thanks for the nice Slow CW QSO. Excellent for your 50W and detuned antenna! Your signal was at the limit (stronger at the beginning, weaker at the end) but clearely visible. I only had some problems with QRM from other Slow CW stns (One was sending questionmarks 1Hz below, another was drifting over your signal). I've sent you a QSL by mail today. 73 de Toni OK1FIG: > > Hello Lowfers! > > I have made my first QSO's on 136 kHz: > 9.7.1999 0940 UTC DJ5BV > 10.7.1999 0750 UTC HB9ASB > Both with Slow-CW. > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed Return-Path: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 983 invoked from network); 13 Jul 1999 08:49:44 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Jul 1999 08:49:44 +0100 Received: (qmail 6210 invoked from network); 13 Jul 1999 07:51:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Jul 1999 07:51:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113xAq-0007vR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:40:20 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ns.cro.cz ([193.179.196.2] ident=qmailr) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 113xAo-0007vM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:40:18 +0100 Received: (qmail 28484 invoked from network); 13 Jul 1999 07:40:15 -0000 Received: from fw.cro.cz (HELO ns-int.cro.cz) (193.179.197.2) by ns.cro.cz with SMTP; 13 Jul 1999 07:40:15 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from radiohk.hk.cro.cz (ns.hk.cro.cz [172.27.1.2]) by ns-int.cro.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA13168 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:40:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc033hk.hk.cro.cz ([172.27.1.33]) by radiohk.hk.cro.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA05252 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:40:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by pc033hk.hk.cro.cz with Microsoft Mail id <01BECD13.B5E7E9A0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz>; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:40:15 +-200 Message-ID: <01BECD13.B5E7E9A0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> From: "OK1FIG" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: First QSO on 136 kHz from OK!!! Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:40:09 +-200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Ok, Tony. Thank you for nice QSO too. My antenna seems to do a good job. I had probles with stability of oscillator. I saw "?" as well. I thought it was from you. Your QSL card will be replied immediately. 73 Petr, OK1FIG ---------- Od: Toni Baertschi[SMTP:tonib@phonakcom.ch] Odesláno: 13. cervence 1999 9:21 Komu: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Predmet: Re: LF: First QSO on 136 kHz from OK!!! >>From HB9ASB, JN36pt Hello Petr, many thanks for the nice Slow CW QSO. Excellent for your 50W and detuned antenna! Your signal was at the limit (stronger at the beginning, weaker at the end) but clearely visible. I only had some problems with QRM from other Slow CW stns (One was sending questionmarks 1Hz below, another was drifting over your signal). I've sent you a QSL by mail today. 73 de Toni OK1FIG: > > Hello Lowfers! > > I have made my first QSO's on 136 kHz: > 9.7.1999 0940 UTC DJ5BV > 10.7.1999 0750 UTC HB9ASB > Both with Slow-CW. > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5277 invoked from network); 13 Jul 1999 13:43:45 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Jul 1999 13:43:45 +0100 Received: (qmail 27183 invoked from network); 13 Jul 1999 12:45:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Jul 1999 12:45:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1141hi-0001KS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 13:30:34 +0100 Received: from smtp.mail.big-orange.net ([143.179.236.31] helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1141hh-0001KN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 13:30:33 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.151.99]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAC645D for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:30:29 +0200 Message-ID: <006f01becd2c$188e8100$6397b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: Re: LF: PA0SE Field Strength Meter Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:30:54 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Dear John, I visited the site and it looks really great! Text in white on black, wow.... Thanks again for a splendid job! 73, Dick, PA0SE -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: WarmSpgs@aol.com Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Datum: maandag 12 juli 1999 19:58 Onderwerp: Re: LF: PA0SE Field Strength Meter >In a message dated 7/12/99 1:18:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >sergeantd@compuserve.com writes: > ><< To speed download it might be useful to ZIP the files into a single ZIP >file. >> > >A good thought. We will be doing that at the lwca.org site, where the >information is also mirrored. > >In addition, we have implemented another approach to speed up access for >those who wish to view the article in HTML form. Smaller versions of the >seven accompanying figures are included in the Web document, which can be >clicked to download the full-size image if or when the reader desires. The >URL is: >http://www.lwca.org/library/global/pa0se/fsm.htm > >We haven't previously publicized hosting this article, since between the time >we wrote to Dick directly and the time we received his reply, the other folks >made their offers here on the reflector. However, I, for one, do not mind >being marginally redundant as long we can still be useful. :) > >Our site has plenty of server space and bandwidth, for the sole purpose of >disseminating information on longwave radio to anyone who is interested. Any >LW enthusiast who has information to share is welcome to submit it for >inclusion, either as the primary archive, or as a mirror site if the >information is also being hosted elsewhere. (All we request is that it be >your own work and not violate the copyrights of others.) If it is a large >file, or there are multiple attachments, FTP would be a better approach than >email. Contact webmaster@lwca.org to submit material or to obtain a suitable >URL for uploads. > >73, >John KD4IDY > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5302 invoked from network); 13 Jul 1999 13:43:55 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Jul 1999 13:43:55 +0100 Received: (qmail 27195 invoked from network); 13 Jul 1999 12:45:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Jul 1999 12:45:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1141hq-0001KZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 13:30:42 +0100 Received: from smtp.mail.big-orange.net ([143.179.236.31] helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1141hp-0001KU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 13:30:41 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.151.99]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAD645D; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:30:31 +0200 Message-ID: <007001becd2c$1a215600$6397b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Cc: "Pieter Bruinsma" , "Koos Fockens, PA0KDF" , "Klaas Spaargaren, PA0KSB" , "Jaap Kroon, PA0IF" , "Hendrik de Waard, PA0ZX" , "Gerrit Jan Huijsman, PA0GJH" , "Ger van Went, PA0GER" Subject: LF: Re: PA0SE Field Strength Meter Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:33:05 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: >From PA0SE to All Dave, G3YMC, wrote: Dick's field strength meter looks interesting - well done Dick. Not sure whether it would detect much of my QRPP set up at 1km! The DVM I use with my FSM indicates voltages less than 1000 mV in three digits. With no signal tuned in the meter reads 1 mV. This must be receiver noise. But due to the low cut off frequency of the low pass filter (- 3B at 88 Hz) it sounds like a low rumble. For a meaningful result the reading should be 10 mV or so as a minimum. Due to the uncertainty of the last digit in a DVM this would mean an (in)accuracy of plus or minus 10% which would be adequate I think. (Measuring field strength is never a precision job). As a reading of 1000 mV corresponds to 5 mV/m in my FSM the field producing a reading of 10 mV is 0.05 mV/m. Inserting that and a distance d = 2 km into equation (1) of my FSM story yields a radiated power of 0.111 mW (or 0.111 * 1.83 = 0.203 mW ERP). I don't know how QRPP your station is Dave but I expect my FSM could cope with it. I wonder how this direct conversion receiver works as a general purpose 136 receiver. I suspect it is probably a little lacking in gain, but perhaps Dick can comment. I need to sort out a suitable receiver for portable use, possibly for an Alderney trip where there is a 15kg air luggage limit. There are two factors to be considered, sensitivity and selectivity. A dc-receiver can be made as sensitive as a superhet. I have put my FSM between the Helmholtz coils again to find the minimum signal that could be detected by ear. It corresponded to a field strength of about 9 microvolt/m. That is not good enough for a receiver but remember that the low pass filter starts to attenuate an audiosignal at 88 Hz. The test signal had to produce a note well above that to be heard in the headphones and thus the signal had already suffered considerable attenuation. Also for CW a note between 700 and 1000 Hz is usual and the ear is much more sensitive there. By removing resistor R4 in parallel with the antenna circuit the gain would increase by a factor of three or so. So a dc-receiver along the lines of my FSM could have sufficient gain as a receiver. (When used with the transmitting antenna for reception instead of the ferrite rod the gain would definitely be plentiful but this would require extra front-end selectivity to obtain an acceptable strong signal behaviour. But that applies to a superhet as well of course). Now the selectivity matter. For a FSM my system with a three section RC low pass filter is sufficient because an interfering signal is added quadratically to the wanted signal. As an example let the signal to be measured produce an audio signal of 500 mV on the DVM. Assume that also present is an interfering signal at a different frequency that would produce 50 mV on the meter if alone. Then the meter does not read 500 + 50 = 550 mV but SQR (500^2 + 50^2) = 502 mV. Though the interfering signal is only 20log(500/50) = 20 dB weaker that the wanted one the influence on the measurement is negliglible. When used for aural reception the story becomes quite a different one. The ear hears signals at different frequencies separately so the quadratic summing trick does not work . In addition the ear/brain-system has an enormous dynamic range. I don't know how much but think at least 60 dB or so. When my FSM is tuned away from DCF39 with volume turned up I can still hear the audio note until it reaches about 2500 Hz. The signal then must have been attenuated in the low pass filter by some calculated 68 dB! This illustrates the problem. In case of a dc-receiver for CW the low pass filter must be replaced by an audio band pass one with a pass band of 700....1000 Hz, say. Below and above that band attenuation must steeply rise to 80 or more dB. An almost impossible requirement. Another drawback of the dc-receiver is that it is a double sideband receiver. In the case of our example there exists another passband of 300 Hz wide on the other side of the oscillator frequency. With a phasing system the one sideband can be suppressed but the the simplicity of the dc-receiver is then lost. Also I expect sideband suppression at best may reach some 50 dB or so and that does not really help. My conclusion is that a dc-receiver for the 136 kHz band may be used for occasional listening but is no good for serious work. The selectivity requirement is met in superhets by cascading filters at different intermediate frequencies, sometimes augmented by an audiofilter. My own long wave receiver has an i.f. of 30 kHz and selectable i.f.-filters with different pass bands, all having 11 high-Q tuned circuits with ferrite pot cores. The narrowest filter has a 400 Hz wide passband.. Even with this filter I can still hear DCF39 weakly in the filter stop band. I therefore also use audio filters (35 or 200 Hz wide) between the audio output of the receiver and the headphones. Hope this answers Dave's query. 73, Dick, PA0SE JO22GD D.W. Rollema V.d. Marckstraat 5 2352 RA Leiderdorp The Netherlands Tel. +31 71 589 27 34 E-mail: d.w.rollema@gironet.nl or pa0se@amsat.org From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26570 invoked from network); 13 Jul 1999 15:13:32 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Jul 1999 15:13:32 +0100 Received: (qmail 11354 invoked from network); 13 Jul 1999 14:15:03 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Jul 1999 14:15:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11434e-0001xa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:58:20 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11434d-0001xV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:58:19 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA18179 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 16:03:59 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990713155956.326f5040@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 15:59:56 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: PA0SE Field Strength Meter In-reply-to: <007001becd2c$1a215600$6397b38f@w8k3f0> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: At 14:33 13/07/99 +0200, PA0SE wrote: > >There are two factors to be considered, sensitivity and selectivity. > >A dc-receiver can be made as sensitive as a superhet. >... I think that a third factor has te be considered, especially on LF : the intermodulation behavior of the RX. >From my experience with DC-receivers on 80m I know that strong signals near the 'passband' can not only cause 'gost-signals' but also make the RX very insensitive (DC breakthrough). The most critical part (assuming you have a proper designed RF preamp with good IM behavior) is the mixer, this should be a a high-quality DBM. But on 136kHz an almost-perfect DBM is much easier to realise than on HF, I have heard about good results using analog switches as replacement for the diodes. 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12798 invoked from network); 14 Jul 1999 01:15:36 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Jul 1999 01:15:36 +0100 Received: (qmail 19356 invoked from network); 14 Jul 1999 00:17:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Jul 1999 00:17:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114CVv-0006LS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 01:03:07 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114CVu-0006LN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 01:03:06 +0100 Received: from [62.172.218.232] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 114CVs-0001xC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 01:03:05 +0100 Message-ID: <000901becd8c$0f99b640$e8daac3e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: re problems G3XDV and whippy mast extensions? Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 00:43:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi again Mike, Ahh that explains it...it did have that kind of 'arcing' feel to it. Difficult keeping a decent spacing for 20kV or so of RF when the wind blows. I must admit I saw some 3in pyrex insulators at a rally recently, snapped them up and squirrelled them away. On the 'whippy mast front'....I have often wondered, living near the sea but not being a Yachtty, whether it would be possible to brace a light mast in the same way that racing yacht masts are braced. They have a stand-off in the middle with wire stays from top to bottom. I guess this puts the mast in compression, and 'stiffens it up'. I gather that top notch racers even 'tune' the mast tension, but I dont reckon that will effect the ERP! I think to keep the capacity of the vertical section to ground down, the braces would have to be non-conducting, in our case. I'm not an mechanical engineer so I'm not sure how it would work. I suspect,like some of the racing disasters, if the wind did exceed the design value your mast would probably 'go off' like a bolt from a cross-bow. It wouldn't be any good for HF beams etc. but it might be a useful technique to get an LF wire a little higher using very light materials.. My other loony idea was to use a balloon, not like Steve does to hold up the weight of the whole of his 20m vertical (I think), but just to extend the height of a 15 metre lightweight mast. If the bottom 15m of wire were thick, supported by the mast, the upper 15m could be quite thin, light wire.( OK higher losses but its not top loaded so the current tapers to zero at the balloon) One would not get the top loadin effect of course, but a thumb-nail calculation suggests that the increase in radiation resistance might be worth it. A light mast might support a small loading coil at its top, which might be worthwhile at this sort of height. I think most of us would like a 30m vertical (wind allowing, of course) The other effect would be to keep the aerial clear of local obstacles,( which must be quite a problem if there is even a breath of wind) because to 'blown around bit' of wire would be clear of houses and many trees. If it did come down it would just dangle alongside the mast not drape over the neighbours garden arcing menacingly. (Full of stupid ideas at this site!) 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12861 invoked from network); 14 Jul 1999 01:15:57 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Jul 1999 01:15:57 +0100 Received: (qmail 19396 invoked from network); 14 Jul 1999 00:17:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Jul 1999 00:17:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114CVw-0006LZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 01:03:08 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114CVv-0006LU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 01:03:08 +0100 Received: from [62.172.218.232] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 114CVu-0001xC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 01:03:07 +0100 Message-ID: <000a01becd8c$109d1c80$e8daac3e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: re OK1FIG and cluster report Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 01:00:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Sorry Petr, I knew you were there because I could copy the German station working you, but when I scolled back through the DSP display, the trace where you were transmitting did not 'go on and off' at the right times, and switching off my VDU screen, whilst still accumulating the waterfall display, caused the trace to disappear. Indicating that the response was a Frame harmonic of my VDU. Do not loose heart, my receive sensitivity is not very good, the operational G stations have much better chance of hearing you. I bet Finbar is stoking up the milliwatts for next weekend, because EI to OK must be a good distance. Keep tweeking the aerial, add a few more FETs to the PA and I'm sure you will soon generate a noisy (but gentlemanly, of course) pile-up on 136. 73 de Alan G3NYK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8001 invoked from network); 14 Jul 1999 04:33:14 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Jul 1999 04:33:14 +0100 Received: (qmail 3027 invoked from network); 14 Jul 1999 03:35:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Jul 1999 03:35:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114FbX-0007k6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 04:21:07 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com ([198.81.17.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114FbV-0007k0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 04:21:05 +0100 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id lYFPa07706 (8075) for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:20:25 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <5fdc242a.24bd5bf7@aol.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:20:23 EDT Subject: Re: LF: PA0SE Field Strength Meter To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: In a message dated 7/13/99 8:37:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, d.w.rollema@gironet.nl writes: << Dear John, I visited the site and it looks really great! Text in white on black, wow.... Thanks again for a splendid job! 73, Dick, PA0SE >> You are most welcome, Dick. Thank you for making this excellent material available to the amateur community! The white text on black background was suggested by the photographs themselves. I thought that scheme might best preserve the dramatic quality of the pictures despite the reduced size when I merged them with the text. I'm glad you like it. 73, John KD4IDY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19863 invoked from network); 14 Jul 1999 06:41:31 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Jul 1999 06:41:31 +0100 Received: (qmail 10727 invoked from network); 14 Jul 1999 05:43:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Jul 1999 05:43:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114Hfp-00004E-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 06:33:41 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ah-img-4.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.158] helo=hpamgaad.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114Hfo-000049-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 06:33:40 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaad.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.5) id BAA23848 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 01:33:30 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 01:32:59 -0400 From: "Dave Sergeant" Subject: Re: LF: Bandplanning: QRS frequencies .... To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199907140133_MC2-7CF2-C5CC@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Toni HB9ASB writes: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 28100 invoked from network); 14 Jul 1999 08:05:08 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Jul 1999 08:05:08 +0100 Received: (qmail 11759 invoked from network); 14 Jul 1999 07:06:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Jul 1999 07:06:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114Ixi-0000fA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 07:56:14 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ns.cro.cz ([193.179.196.2] ident=qmailr) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114Ixg-0000f5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 07:56:12 +0100 Received: (qmail 21035 invoked from network); 14 Jul 1999 06:56:09 -0000 Received: from fw.cro.cz (HELO ns-int.cro.cz) (193.179.197.2) by ns.cro.cz with SMTP; 14 Jul 1999 06:56:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from radiohk.hk.cro.cz (ns.hk.cro.cz [172.27.1.2]) by ns-int.cro.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA19847 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:56:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc033hk.hk.cro.cz ([172.27.1.33]) by radiohk.hk.cro.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA07557 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:56:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by pc033hk.hk.cro.cz with Microsoft Mail id <01BECDD6.B5538E40@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz>; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:56:06 +-200 Message-ID: <01BECDD6.B5538E40@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> From: "OK1FIG" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: re OK1FIG and cluster report Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:56:04 +-200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Dear Alan and all others. OK, perhaps I misunderstood your previous text. Never mind. Anyway, this transmission was very makeshift. I had made PA into a paper box, I had no means for tuning the antenna and no means for measuring the antenna current, and so on. I began to work on a new loading coil yesterday and I plan to make a proper PA with output of about 250W. My next goal is to do some normal CW QSO. Most probably I will spend some more days at the cottage at the and of July and most probably second week in August. I concentrate on weekend mornings and I keep full-hour-rule. Starting at 00 min each hour I either call CQ on normal CW or listen. If no QSO in about ten minutes, I devote the rest of the hour to calling/listening to Slow-CW. I will do my best to let all LFers know days of my activity and to get them chance to negotiate skeds. Please, do not send any e-mails to my address (ok1fig@hk.cro.cz) from 16th July. I will cancel this e-mail box. I will let you know my new address ASAP. My WEB pages remains with their address, there is no change. Can anyone tell me how to log off from the reflector ? I must do it on Friday. All the best to all, see you soon! 73! Petr, OK1FIG ---------- Od: Alan Melia[SMTP:Alan.Melia@btinternet.com] Odesláno: 14. cervence 1999 2:00 Komu: rsgb_lf_group Predmet: LF: re OK1FIG and cluster report Sorry Petr, I knew you were there because I could copy the German station working you, but when I scolled back through the DSP display, the trace where you were transmitting did not 'go on and off' at the right times, and switching off my VDU screen, whilst still accumulating the waterfall display, caused the trace to disappear. Indicating that the response was a Frame harmonic of my VDU. ... ... 73 de Alan G3NYK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23997 invoked from network); 14 Jul 1999 19:12:16 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Jul 1999 19:12:16 +0100 Received: (qmail 31891 invoked from network); 14 Jul 1999 18:13:52 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Jul 1999 18:13:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114TDH-0005Cg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 18:52:59 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114TDF-0005Ca-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 18:52:57 +0100 Received: from walter (userk934.uk.uudial.com [193.149.73.2]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id SAA04310 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 18:48:52 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <199907141748.SAA04310@fm215.facility.pipex.com> X-Sender: blanch@mailhost.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 18:52:35 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: PA0SE Field Strength Meter In-reply-to: <199907120112_MC2-7CA3-1A8F@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: At 01:12 12/07/99 -0400, you wrote: ....................possibly for an Alderney trip where there is a 15kg air luggage limit. If you get to Alderney I would be very interested to know how bad the Loran QRM was. Thanks. Walter G3JKV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14195 invoked from network); 14 Jul 1999 22:54:40 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Jul 1999 22:54:40 +0100 Received: (qmail 31130 invoked from network); 14 Jul 1999 21:56:18 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Jul 1999 21:56:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114Wgo-0006mQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 22:35:42 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from premium.inrete.it ([194.116.9.4] helo=mailer.inrete.it ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114Wgh-0006mK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 22:35:36 +0100 Received: from cel266 (pool17-011.dialup.alpcom.it [194.116.17.11]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA23998 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 23:35:15 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990714223318.006f6764@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 22:33:18 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: LF: Strange ELF signal (not LF...) In-reply-to: <199907140133_MC2-7CF2-C5CC@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello all. This message may be off-topic here, but I don't know of better places to talk about this. By first, the facts. A dear friend, Renato IK1QFK, since many years monitors the natural radio signals in the 0-20 kHz spectrum. He has a variety of electric and magnetic probes (antennas?) and a lot of successful recordings. He found a man-made signal with the following charcteristics: Frequency: around 1025 Hz Format: on/off modulation, CW-like. Bit lenght about 0,64 s. Strings of 20 seconds, or about 5 seconds (32 or 8 bits ?). Time: starts about 20-30 seconds after the hour. Not every hour, but usually I see it at 2000z and 2100z. It lasts sometime for minutes, with several different 'messages' separated by tens of seconds of silence. We have no evidence of a 'QSO' or a replying station. The signal was evident with the E-field antenna. After some discussion I proposed to look at the mains network, and the signal is there, loud and clear! It is exactly midway between the 1000 Hz (weak) and 1050 Hz (stronger) harmonics of the mains. The amplitude varies with time and day, and is approx. -70 dB respect to the 50 Hz. The amplitude is confrontable with the 21th harmonic at 1050 Hz. To observe the signal, use Spectrogram, connect the SB input to the mains, via a transformer and some attenuation network. I use a 24 V winding, followed by a resistive divider and a 3 nF capacitor to act as high-pass filter and reduce the 50 Hz component. ------------------ Now, the questions: who? why? how? where? The signal amplitude between my QTH and IK1QFK is the same. We live at about 15 km distance. Friends at our ENEL (the Italian Electricity Board), involved with high voltage line signalling, exclude any involvement of telecontrol or signalling systems. They use LF. -70 dBc means about 600 mV of signal over the mains. The impedance of the network may not be completely different at 50 Hz and 1 kHz ... and may be that at 1 kHz it is even lower, because of the capacitances. Assuming as an hypothesis that the signal propagates like the 50 Hz, the total installed power in Europe should be some figure in the order of 10^11 W and the power involved with the signal should be big (tens of kW ?) The signal is also visible in E-field, connecting the Marconi "T" to the SB line input via an audio preamplifier. Sometime it is even clearer in E-field than on the mains. We will appreciate reports from OMs in other countries and from other places in Italy (IK5ZPV ? HB9ASB ? you are the nearest). One last thing: this signal is not alone ... Sorry for the bandwidth, but we are really puzzled. 73 - Marco IK1ODO spin@inrete.it From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15078 invoked from network); 15 Jul 1999 01:45:29 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Jul 1999 01:45:29 +0100 Received: (qmail 13497 invoked from network); 15 Jul 1999 00:47:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Jul 1999 00:47:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114ZUt-0008Ev-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 01:35:35 +0100 Received: from mcclure.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.31]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114ZUr-0008Eq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 01:35:34 +0100 Received: from p149.lifford1.tinet.ie ([159.134.235.149] helo=beachwood.tinet.ie) by mcclure.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 114ZUn-0007vL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 01:35:29 +0100 Message-ID: <000801bece5a$5a312020$95eb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Stoking at LF Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 21:22:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi Alan/G3NYK. Just thought I'd bring you up to date on the possibility of working EI to OK. The riggers are just finishing off my new 300 metre tower ( with top loading ), only problem will be adding some series capacitance to shorten it, so I can put in the usual base loading coil and tap up for 50 ohms, the capacitor will be a one off specially ordered from the U.S.A. You were quite right about stoking up for that DX qso, the local grid cannot cope with the extra electricity demand, so the only thing was to order up a generator. Could not believe it when I was told I could not get a gene of that KVA at short notice, but they did have a steam driven one that I could have straight away. I now have a team of excellent boiler house staff and a steady supply of coal, so there should be no problems with the High Tension supply. My wife has now got the domestic staff in line and the supply of food and lodgings are complete, however the local supermarket is having some problems keeping up with the demand and the supermarket chain's HQ are now considering building a new supply depot. Apparently there have been complaints from other parts of the county regarding low food supplies, all because demand has increased here. A very pleasant chap from the International Copper Federation, called the other day and presented me with beautiful engraved smoking pipe and a fabulous bouquet of flowers for my wife. He told us that the price of Copper has gone through the roof. Did I mention that we laid over 80 kilometers of 10 swg copper wire for the radial system but plan to double that as soon as we can get more staff. It's a constant juggle between staff, accomodation, food, etc, but put in context, its a small price to pay. Until I get things just right, I will continue to experiment with my Mosfet transmitter, the 14 metre support pole holding up my twin 100 metre wire antenna, which I can get 3 amps into at maximum smoke and enjoy my new ICOM R75 receiver, with its 2 cw filters, 250 hz at 9 mhz and 500 hz at 455 khz. This rx is such a vast improvement on my LOWE HF225 or ALINCO DX70, it makes me want to say something terrible.... ......I can't wait for Winter, to give it a good bash on LF and get away from the Summertime static and T/A. 73's Finbar EI0CF p.s really looking forward to working OK soon. -----Original Message----- From: Alan Melia To: rsgb_lf_group Date: 14 July 1999 01:32 Subject: LF: re OK1FIG and cluster report >Sorry Petr, I knew you were there because I could copy the German station >working you, but when I scolled back through the DSP display, the trace >where you were transmitting did not 'go on and off' at the right times, and >switching off my VDU screen, whilst still accumulating the waterfall >display, caused the trace to disappear. Indicating that the response was a >Frame harmonic of my VDU. >Do not loose heart, my receive sensitivity is not very good, the operational >G stations have much better chance of hearing you. I bet Finbar is stoking >up the milliwatts for next weekend, because EI to OK must be a good >distance. Keep tweeking the aerial, add a few more FETs to the PA and I'm >sure you will soon generate a noisy (but gentlemanly, of course) pile-up on >136. >73 de Alan G3NYK > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25850 invoked from network); 15 Jul 1999 03:11:00 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Jul 1999 03:11:00 +0100 Received: (qmail 27651 invoked from network); 15 Jul 1999 02:13:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Jul 1999 02:13:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114ar0-0000Lk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 03:02:30 +0100 Received: from phoenix.earthlight.co.nz ([203.97.8.4] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114aqx-0000Le-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 03:02:28 +0100 Received: from Computer.earthlight.co.nz (ppp171.earthlight.co.nz [203.97.8.171]) by phoenix.earthlight.co.nz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA20686 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:02:18 +1200 Message-ID: <002c01bece66$1dc09920$ab0861cb@Computer.earthlight.co.nz> From: "Stan Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Re: Stoking at LF Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 13:32:45 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi All, Finbar's story most enjoyable and the most recent one that I have seen that fit "CQ"'s or "73" mags cartoon headed " I CAN DREAM, CAN'T I " !!!!!!!!! Stan, ZL4MB -----Original Message----- From: Finbar O'Connor To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thursday, 15 July 1999 12:59 Subject: LF: Re: Stoking at LF >Hi Alan/G3NYK. > Just thought I'd bring you up to date on the >possibility of working EI to OK. The riggers are just finishing off my new >300 metre >tower ( with top loading ), only problem will be adding some series >capacitance to shorten it, so I can put in the usual base loading coil and >tap up for 50 ohms, the capacitor will be a one off specially ordered from >the U.S.A. You were quite right about stoking up for that DX qso, the local >grid cannot cope with the extra electricity demand, so the only thing was to >order up a generator. Could not believe it when I was told I could not get a >gene of that KVA at short notice, but they did have a steam driven one that >I could have straight away. I now have a team of excellent boiler house >staff and a steady supply of coal, so there should be no problems with the >High Tension supply. >My wife has now got the domestic staff in line and the supply of food and >lodgings are complete, however the local supermarket is having some problems >keeping up with the demand and the supermarket chain's HQ are now >considering building a new supply depot. Apparently there have been >complaints from other parts of the county regarding low food supplies, all >because demand has increased here. >A very pleasant chap from the International Copper Federation, called the >other day and presented me with beautiful engraved smoking pipe and a >fabulous bouquet of flowers for my wife. He told us that the price of Copper >has gone through the roof. Did I mention that we laid over 80 kilometers of >10 swg copper wire for the radial system but plan to double that as soon as >we can get more staff. It's a constant juggle between staff, accomodation, >food, etc, but put in context, its a small price to pay. >Until I get things just right, I will continue to experiment with my Mosfet >transmitter, the 14 metre support pole holding up my twin 100 metre >wire antenna, which I can get 3 amps into at maximum smoke and enjoy my new >ICOM R75 receiver, with its 2 cw filters, 250 hz at 9 mhz and 500 hz at >455 khz. This rx is such a vast improvement on my LOWE HF225 or ALINCO DX70, >it makes me want to say something terrible.... >......I can't wait for Winter, to give it a good bash on LF and get away >from the Summertime static and T/A. >73's Finbar EI0CF >p.s really looking forward to working OK soon. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Alan Melia >To: rsgb_lf_group >Date: 14 July 1999 01:32 >Subject: LF: re OK1FIG and cluster report > > >>Sorry Petr, I knew you were there because I could copy the German station >>working you, but when I scolled back through the DSP display, the trace >>where you were transmitting did not 'go on and off' at the right times, and >>switching off my VDU screen, whilst still accumulating the waterfall >>display, caused the trace to disappear. Indicating that the response was a >>Frame harmonic of my VDU. >>Do not loose heart, my receive sensitivity is not very good, the >operational >>G stations have much better chance of hearing you. I bet Finbar is stoking >>up the milliwatts for next weekend, because EI to OK must be a good >>distance. Keep tweeking the aerial, add a few more FETs to the PA and I'm >>sure you will soon generate a noisy (but gentlemanly, of course) pile-up on >>136. >>73 de Alan G3NYK >> >> >> >> > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2355 invoked from network); 15 Jul 1999 13:03:16 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Jul 1999 13:03:16 +0100 Received: (qmail 6087 invoked from network); 15 Jul 1999 12:05:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Jul 1999 12:05:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114jzz-0004U5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:48:23 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from dh-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.131] helo=hpdmgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114jzx-0004U0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:48:21 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.5) id HAA25750 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 07:48:15 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 07:48:06 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel \(DK8KW\)" Subject: LF: Re: Stoking at LF To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199907150748_MC2-7D13-D545@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi Finbar, great story! I would lik to put it up on my hompage to make it awailable to others who are not on the reflector. Would you mind? Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6081 invoked from network); 15 Jul 1999 13:21:24 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Jul 1999 13:21:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 27776 invoked from network); 15 Jul 1999 12:23:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Jul 1999 12:23:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114kLv-0004f9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 13:11:03 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.157]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114kLu-0004f4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 13:11:02 +0100 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-126-34.bellatlantic.net [151.200.126.34]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA01578; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 08:14:39 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <378DD01C.7510D610@bellatlantic.net> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 08:12:12 -0400 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "AMRAD Tacos" , "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: August QST Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: On page 20 of the August 1999 issue of QST appears a photograph of Steve GW4ALG's 136 kHz transverter, along with some very positive comments. Congratulations Steve :-) Andre' N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23664 invoked from network); 15 Jul 1999 14:48:06 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Jul 1999 14:48:06 +0100 Received: (qmail 29022 invoked from network); 15 Jul 1999 13:50:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Jul 1999 13:50:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114lfz-0005IW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:35:51 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.32] (helo=Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114lfv-0005IO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:35:47 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.150.186]) by Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA120D; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 15:35:30 +0200 Message-ID: <001a01becec7$86785780$ba96b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Cc: "Mike Perry, PA7XG" , "Koos Fockens, PA0KDF" , "Klaas Spaargaren, PA0KSB" , "Jan Hekkert, PA3HCD" , "Jaap Kroon, PA0IF" , "Hendrik de Waard, PA0ZX" , "Hans Peltzer, PA0HRP" , "Ger van Went, PA0GER" Subject: LF: More on measuring field strength Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 15:28:41 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE
 
Using my homemade field strength meter I measured the signal of DCF39 at an open field near my location at 2.12 mV/m. (It almost doubles after dark!) Using a 1,34 diameter circular loop connected to a selective level meter - a basic system not requiring calibration - I found a field of 2 mV/m in my shack on an earlier occasion. So I feel pretty certain the measurement is correct. 
 
This permits some speculation as to the power of DCF39.
 
I used the graphs in CCIR Recommendation 368-7: GROUND-WAVE PROPAGATION CURVES FOR FREQUENCIES BETWEEN 10 kHz AND 30 MHz.
There are no curves for 137 kHz so I used the ones for 150 kHz as being the nearest ones.
 
Gamal Soegiono in an e-mail of some time ago gave the locator of DCF39 as JO52XH (accurate to 10 km).
With my own locator JO22GD this yields 505 km for the distance between DCF39 and PA0SE.
Measuring the distance on a road map produced 495 km. I therefore entered the graphs at 500 km. 
 
We find for the power of DCF39 the following figures:
 
Type of terrain            Conductivity     Dielectric Constant       Power radiated                                                                    
                                           S/m                  epsilon                            kW                                            
 
Perfect ground                                                                                  12.2
 
Sea water (low salinity)              1                        80                           45
 
Sea water  (avarage salinity)       5                        78                           45
 
Fresh water                               0,003                  80                          282
 
Land                                         0.03                    40                           45
 
Wet ground                               0.01                     30                           56
 
Land                                         0.003                   22                          224
 
Medium dry ground                    0.001                   15                          2818
 
The power radiated must be muliplied by 1.83 to obtain ERP.
 
Gamal Soegiono in the same e-mail said the transmitter is designed for nominal 200 kW but presently operated with 50 kW out.
What are the conclusions?
Perfect ground, sea water and fresh water are not applicable and were only included for comparison purposes.
Land with 0.003 S/m conductivity and epsilon 22 as well as medium dry ground produce unrealistic figures for the power.
Wet ground is also not very likely. That leaves us with Land (0.03 S/m; epsilon = 40). (Apparantly just as good as sea water!)
When the transmitter really has an output of 50 kW and 45 kW is radiated the efficiency of the antenna/earth system must be unlikely high.
Could it be that the output power has been increased over 50 kW?
It would be nice if someone could find out.
 
A field strength meter must be used at such a distance from the transmitter that the near field is sufficiently weak not to invalidate the measurement.
In the description of my FSM I say that 1 km is probably sufficient but 2 km is safe. This was based on the following. When I had just finished the instrument I measured the field of my transmitter at 1 and 2 km and found at 2 km exactly half the value at 1 km. This satisfies the inverse distance relation which is only present in the far field.
Later I found that the location used at 1 km was not a good one; the reading varied considerably when moving around a bit.   
So that leaves us again with the question whether 2 km (about one wavelength) is sufficient?
 
Back to Recommendation 368-7. It says: The curves give the total field at distance, r, with an error less than 1 dB when kr is greater than about 10, where k = 2 * pi/lambda  (Lambda is the wavelength in km).
To make kr > 10 at 137 kHz r must be greater than 3.5 km.
 
As a test I measured the field of my transmitter at 1.52 km; 2.0 km and 3.1 km from the station. (3.5 km fell outside my
1 : 10 000 map.)
To check whether the field at the locations was sufficiently undistorted I first measured DCF39. The values found at the three locations differed no more than 0.17 dB.
 
For the power radiated by my station I found:
 
Distance in km     Power radiated in mW
 
1.52                                   62
 
2.0                                     57
 
3.1                                     40
 
To be multipied by 1.83 for ERP
 
A difference of 1.9 dB between maximum and minimum value.
 
So it seems advisable to measure at a distance of at least 3.5 km.
 
For the relation between power radiated and field strength I gave the following equation:
 
P = 0.0111(E*D)^2 in which:
 
P in watt
E in mV/m
D in km
(* means multiplication; ^2 means squared)
 
This equation is theoretically only valid for a perfect earth. The CCIR curves show that it can also be used up to at least 3.5 km with sufficient accuracy for our purpose in case of Sea water, Fresh water, Wet ground, the two types of Land, Medium dry ground, and Dry ground. Only in case of Very dry ground (0.0001 S/m, epsilon = 3) the CCIR curves should be used.
 
As mentioned earlier DCF39 has a field of 2.12 mV/m at my location. The antenna system at PA0SE produces 6 mV over 50 ohm when tuned to DCF39. This relation makes it possible to find the field strength of a station using equipment in the shack. The signal over 50 ohm can be found with my Wandel & Goltermann PSM-5 selective level meter or the combination of LF receiver and  signal generator (substitution method). Multiplication by 6/2.12 = 2.83 yields the field strength in mV/m.
That can be useful for future experiments.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
JO22GD
D.W. Rollema
V.d. Marckstraat 5
2352 RA Leiderdorp
The Netherlands
Tel. +31 71 589 27 34
or
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9015 invoked from network); 15 Jul 1999 19:55:49 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Jul 1999 19:55:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 6546 invoked from network); 15 Jul 1999 18:57:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Jul 1999 18:57:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114qJD-0007Js-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:32:39 +0100 Received: from merlins.force9.net ([195.166.128.23]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114qJA-0007Jn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:32:36 +0100 Received: (qmail 17184 invoked from network); 15 Jul 1999 18:32:33 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by merlins.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Jul 1999 18:32:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 27802 invoked from network); 15 Jul 1999 18:32:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO prstesv1) (212.56.112.216) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Jul 1999 18:32:32 -0000 Message-ID: <004c01becef0$d3339ac0$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Re: Stoking at LF Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:35:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Finbar said.... >A very pleasant chap from the International Copper Federation, called the >other day and presented me with beautiful engraved smoking pipe.... But what has he been smoking in it?? 73, Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16407 invoked from network); 15 Jul 1999 20:30:15 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Jul 1999 20:30:15 +0100 Received: (qmail 28104 invoked from network); 15 Jul 1999 19:32:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Jul 1999 19:32:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114r1K-0007cw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 20:18:14 +0100 Received: from kodos.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.29]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114r1J-0007cn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 20:18:13 +0100 Received: from p145.lifford1.tinet.ie ([159.134.235.145] helo=beachwood.tinet.ie) by kodos.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 114r1D-0005wX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 20:18:08 +0100 Message-ID: <000801becef7$2f7fc820$91eb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Re: Stoking at LF Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 20:20:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi Geri, greetings. Very glad for you to put the story on your homepage. Hope we can work one another on LF, as soon as the Summer static clears. 73's Finbar EI0CF -----Original Message----- From: 'Geri' Kinzel (DK8KW) To: INTERNET:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 15 July 1999 13:26 Subject: LF: Re: Stoking at LF Hi Finbar, great story! I would lik to put it up on my hompage to make it awailable to others who are not on the reflector. Would you mind? Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11666 invoked from network); 15 Jul 1999 22:23:59 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Jul 1999 22:23:59 +0100 Received: (qmail 12602 invoked from network); 15 Jul 1999 21:26:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Jul 1999 21:26:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114spC-0008T7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 22:13:50 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 114spC-0008T2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 22:13:50 +0100 Received: from [62.172.203.186] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 114sp8-0007TW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 22:13:46 +0100 Message-ID: <006401becf06$b8ec4d40$bacbac3e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Mallin Head light dims..... Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 22:11:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi Finbar, do you think I ought to get a warning out on Marisat that Mallin Head light might not be quite so strong as the magnetic field will be affecting the candle burn. It looks like we certainly raise a few grins...... I look forward to hearing your OK<>EI qso. 73 de Alan G3NYK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25488 invoked from network); 16 Jul 1999 07:37:14 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jul 1999 07:37:14 +0100 Received: (qmail 4706 invoked from network); 16 Jul 1999 06:38:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jul 1999 06:38:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1151DR-0003sj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 07:11:25 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ns.cro.cz ([193.179.196.2] ident=qmailr) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1151DQ-0003se-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 07:11:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 26357 invoked from network); 16 Jul 1999 06:11:21 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from fw.cro.cz (HELO ns-int.cro.cz) (193.179.197.2) by ns.cro.cz with SMTP; 16 Jul 1999 06:11:21 -0000 Received: from radiohk.hk.cro.cz (ns.hk.cro.cz [172.27.1.2]) by ns-int.cro.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA04183 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 08:11:20 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc033hk.hk.cro.cz ([172.27.1.33]) by radiohk.hk.cro.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA11590 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 08:11:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by pc033hk.hk.cro.cz with Microsoft Mail id <01BECF62.C22FA6C0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz>; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 08:11:08 +-200 Message-ID: <01BECF62.C22FA6C0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> From: "OK1FIG" To: "'137 kHz'" Subject: LF: I am sorry dear Finbar Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 08:11:07 +-200 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Oh, I am very sorry dear Finbar. I had no idea that my being on air will cause such troubles to you. I thought all the time it is a hobby. Anyway I have an idea how to relieve you. Maybe you could access your outlook-tower to tourists so that they would pay back for you expencies. I am only not sure how would they hold high tension at the top of the tower. But I am sure you will make it up. Maybe you could slow down your Slow-CW so that they would have time enough for taking a pleasure during gaps between letters. 73, Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14200 invoked from network); 16 Jul 1999 09:43:30 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jul 1999 09:43:30 +0100 Received: (qmail 5220 invoked from network); 16 Jul 1999 08:45:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jul 1999 08:45:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1153Gk-0004mV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:22:58 +0100 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1153Gi-0004mP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:22:57 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 1153Fl-0001LV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:21:57 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:17:13 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:19:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: ERP X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Dick, PA0SE, and others have recently been using a multiplication factor of 1.83dB to obtain ERP. This is the supposed gain of a vertical antenna over a dipole because of ground reflection. Is this really vaild? Ground reflection surely must depend upon: (1) The efficiency of the local ground connection and (2) The conductivity of the ground both of which must have a much greater effect on the tiny (in terms of wavelength) antennas we use, than a full quarter-wave. Isn't the 1.83dB a theoretical improvement that is not achieved in practice? I am sure I would prefer to run a dipole on 136kHz, than a 14m vertical. Is this +1.83dB really useful at all? Or have I misunderstood? Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9922 invoked from network); 16 Jul 1999 11:35:11 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jul 1999 11:35:11 +0100 Received: (qmail 5547 invoked from network); 16 Jul 1999 10:36:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jul 1999 10:36:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1155CH-0005j4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:26:29 +0100 Received: from mcclure.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.31]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1155CE-0005iz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:26:26 +0100 Received: from p148.lifford1.tinet.ie ([159.134.235.148] helo=beachwood.tinet.ie) by mcclure.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 1155CA-0006MY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:26:23 +0100 Message-ID: <002801becf76$10cfd8a0$94eb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Malin Candle Power Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:22:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi Alan, fine on the Malin Head Light and funny you should mention that. First time I pressed the key with the new setup I did notice the house lights in the village across the bay, dim a bit. In fact once I put on my glasses it was much easier to go for maximum current in the antenna by watching the house lights dim, than by the usual anode current dip. Amazing, never thought of that before. Mind you this has tipped off the lighthouse staff to the very problem you were on about. The net effect is not a candle to be bought in any of the shops locally, they have bought up all supplies. Apparently they were caught out badly that night I ran up the big transmitter, and say it's not going to happen again, if they can help it. Just shows you. Will keep you posted if there are any major developments. 73's Finbar EI0CF -----Original Message----- From: Alan Melia To: rsgb_lf_group Date: 15 July 1999 22:41 Subject: LF: Mallin Head light dims..... >Hi Finbar, do you think I ought to get a warning out on Marisat that Mallin >Head light might not be quite so strong as the magnetic field will be >affecting the candle burn. >It looks like we certainly raise a few grins...... I look forward to hearing >your OK<>EI qso. >73 de Alan G3NYK > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11894 invoked from network); 16 Jul 1999 11:45:44 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jul 1999 11:45:44 +0100 Received: (qmail 19469 invoked from network); 16 Jul 1999 10:47:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jul 1999 10:47:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1155MQ-0005nj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:36:58 +0100 Received: from mcclure.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.31]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1155MO-0005ne-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:36:57 +0100 Received: from p148.lifford1.tinet.ie ([159.134.235.148] helo=beachwood.tinet.ie) by mcclure.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 1155MI-0006jF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:36:51 +0100 Message-ID: <003701becf77$86fae500$94eb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Tourist board Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:39:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi Petr, Many thanks for the information and suggestion, I'm already getting a submission together for the local tourist board based on your fantastic idea. There is even the possibility of going world wide with this, we could tie in the big DX stations, get a video produced .......my goodness the possibilities are endless. Must rush and get a quick lunch, I've so much work to finish. Thanks again es 73's Finbar EI0CF -----Original Message----- From: OK1FIG To: '137 kHz' Date: 16 July 1999 07:59 Subject: LF: I am sorry dear Finbar >Oh, I am very sorry dear Finbar. I had no idea that my being on air will cause >such troubles to you. I thought all the time it is a hobby. Anyway I have an >idea how to relieve you. Maybe you could access your outlook-tower >to tourists so that they would pay back for you expencies. I am only not sure >how would they hold high tension at the top of the tower. But I am sure you >will make it up. Maybe you could slow down your Slow-CW so that they >would have time enough for taking a pleasure during gaps between letters. > >73, Petr, OK1FIG > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29328 invoked from network); 16 Jul 1999 13:09:57 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jul 1999 13:09:57 +0100 Received: (qmail 25133 invoked from network); 16 Jul 1999 12:11:43 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jul 1999 12:11:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1156ey-0006Oi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:00:12 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1156ev-0006Od-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:00:09 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA09590 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 14:05:48 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990716140137.084ff15a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 14:01:37 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: ERP In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: At 09:19 16/07/99 +0100, you wrote: >Dick, PA0SE, and others have recently been using a multiplication >factor of 1.83dB to obtain ERP. This is the supposed gain of a >vertical antenna over a dipole because of ground reflection. > >Is this really vaild? Ground reflection surely must depend upon: > >(1) The efficiency of the local ground connection and > >(2) The conductivity of the ground > >both of which must have a much greater effect on the tiny (in terms >of wavelength) antennas we use, than a full quarter-wave. Isn't the >1.83dB a theoretical improvement that is not achieved in practice? > >I am sure I would prefer to run a dipole on 136kHz, than a 14m >vertical. > >Is this +1.83dB really useful at all? Or have I misunderstood? > > >Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) >http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm > I have been thinking before about this same question : what is the effective gain of a short vertical monopole (= Marconi-antenna) over a non-perfect ground? This gain (against an isotropic antenna) is mainly caused by the 'mirror effect' of the ground. So if the mirror effect of the ground is low (due to high losses) maybe this gain does not exist. But on the other hand we already took this ground loss into account by the calculation of the radiated power (eg. I have 450W out of my TX from of which only about 0.15W is radiated - the remaining 449,85W is already dissipated in the ground + loading coil, trees, etc ...). It is right to take the ground losses a second time into account by not accepting the gain of a perfect (loss-less) antenna ? As additional information a small 'gain-table' : antenna gain vs isotropic gain vs dipole remark short vertical monopole 3 (4.77dBi) 1.83 (2.62dBd) = Marconi ant. quarter wave monopole 3.28 (5.16dBi) 2 (3dBd) = GP short dipole 1.5 (1.76dBi) 0.91 (-0.41dBd) half wave dipole 1.64 (2.15dBi) 1 (0dBd) small loop 1.5 (1.76dBi) 0.91 (-0.41dBd) full wave dipole 2.41 (3.82dBi) 1.47 1.67dBd) 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3432 invoked from network); 16 Jul 1999 13:30:47 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jul 1999 13:30:47 +0100 Received: (qmail 30647 invoked from network); 16 Jul 1999 12:33:02 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jul 1999 12:33:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1156qx-0006Ut-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:12:35 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1156qw-0006US-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:12:34 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA20723 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 14:18:16 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990716141408.084fc202@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 14:14:08 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: ERP In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: At 09:19 16/07/99 +0100, G3XDV wrote: >Dick, PA0SE, and others have recently been using a multiplication >factor of 1.83dB to obtain ERP. This is the supposed gain of a >vertical antenna over a dipole because of ground reflection. One more thing to mention : when you MEASURE your by the way Dick suggests you don't have to take in account any multiplication factor if you have a short vertical antenna. When you measure at 2 .. 3 km and on the ground you are in the plane of maximum radiation of the antenna. What you measure will be your power in EIRP. Only for antennas that have maximum radiation at a certain elevation angle a correction factor will be needed. 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9947 invoked from network); 16 Jul 1999 22:50:54 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jul 1999 22:50:54 +0100 Received: (qmail 29706 invoked from network); 16 Jul 1999 21:52:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jul 1999 21:52:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 115FTz-0001z2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 22:25:27 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [203.96.92.1] (helo=mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 115FTv-0001w1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 22:25:24 +0100 Received: from [202.27.178.155] by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990716212826.TVGJ957005.mta1-rme@[202.27.178.155]> for ; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 09:28:26 +1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <378FA25C.4435@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 09:21:33 +1200 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Horizontal polarisation on LF? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi all, Taking up the thread of the ERP discussion, and consideration of verticals or a dipole: At the rather long wavelengths of interest, amateur antennas at LF are usually very short in electrical length terms. The presence of "earth" can not be separated from the antenna environment. The "earth" is a combination of conductance and dielectric. The launching of a radiated wave is greatly facilitated by using the ground conductivity, and is why VERTICAL POLARISATION is the main mode of antenna operation, and ensuing GROUND WAVES are relied on for reliable coverage (at least that is the reasoning for most of the broadcast and military LF systems). Usual practice is to have a "big antenna with lots of top loading" and "lots of ground radials". LF amateurs are mostly building small scale versions of what the "big boys" do i.e. a Marconi T or variant. However, the best of amateur LF DX is usually a result of SKY WAVE propagation, even if the amateur antennas are vertically polarised (the polarisation reflected by the ionosphere could be random, but only the vertical component is efficiently received). If sky wave mode is what is actually being sought after, then it may well be worth experimenting with a horizontal "dipole"? The ground conductivity will try to "short out" the launching of a ground wave, but who cares if sky waves are the desired main objective? A horizontal wire electrically close to ground provides a "near vertical incidence" radiation pattern, with most power "going upwards", but with sufficient angular spread to provide reasonable DX from a one hop path via an ionospheric reflection. One New Zealand amateur, Bruce ZL1WB, uses a very long wire strung out over a gully, and with only 30 watts of RF power applied, is the most often copied ZL LF amateur station in Australia (spanning the Tasman Sea, a definite sky wave path, signals are zero much of the time during daylight hours). So there is a suggestion that the very long wire that is mostly horizontal in nature does provide good LF DX. So, casting aside the preconditioning about vertical polarisation and LF, I suggest that it would be well worth investigating from the point of view of sky wave DX potential. Does anyone have a back yard that is a half wave across on LF :) I do not :( Regards, Bob ZL2CA PS I would ask Finbar if he could erect a second big mast for the other end of an LF dipole? From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11101 invoked from network); 17 Jul 1999 02:27:45 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 17 Jul 1999 02:27:45 +0100 Received: (qmail 19945 invoked from network); 17 Jul 1999 01:29:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jul 1999 01:29:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 115J8N-0003kv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 02:19:23 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.157]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 115J8M-0003kq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 02:19:22 +0100 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-125-200.bellatlantic.net [151.200.125.200]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA24603; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 21:22:59 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <378FD9A6.7C85326D@bellatlantic.net> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 21:17:26 -0400 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vernall@xtra.co.nz, "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: Re: LF: Horizontal polarisation on LF? References: <378FA25C.4435@xtra.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: vernall wrote: > [...] > If sky wave mode is what > is actually being sought after, then it may well be worth experimenting > with a horizontal "dipole"? assuming the above hypothesis is valid, why not a horizontal loop, which could be much smaller than a dipole ?Andre' N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18312 invoked from network); 17 Jul 1999 09:41:15 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 17 Jul 1999 09:41:15 +0100 Received: (qmail 11965 invoked from network); 17 Jul 1999 08:43:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jul 1999 08:43:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 115Pmo-0006l7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 09:25:34 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [203.96.92.1] (helo=mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 115PmO-0006kt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 09:25:33 +0100 Received: from [203.96.106.165] by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990717082807.XCSW957005.mta1-rme@[203.96.106.165]> for ; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 20:28:07 +1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37903A9C.4863@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 20:11:08 +1200 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Horizontal polarisation on LF? References: <378FA25C.4435@xtra.co.nz> <378FD9A6.7C85326D@bellatlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Andre' Kesteloot wrote: > > vernall wrote: > > > [...] > > > If sky wave mode is what > > is actually being sought after, then it may well be worth experimenting > > with a horizontal "dipole"? > > assuming the above hypothesis is valid, why not a horizontal loop, which > could be much smaller than a dipole ?Andre' N4ICK I was not meaning to restrict the idea to a dipole, but rather to stimulate a re-think on why horizontal polarisation may be worth a try for sky wave mode of operation. A "loop" has less radiation resistance than a "dipole" when the size is small. But I am suggesting a rather large affair, and a long straight wire could be easier to install and maintain than a loop. But consider whatever suits the available site. As well as the long wire used on LF by ZL1WB, I can say that here in Wellington myself and Andrew ZL2BBJ have done some receive tests and impedance measurements on a big V antenna at the Quartz Hill HF DX club station (call sign ZL6QH). By connecting both feeders in parallel, so the V is like one big wire, the measured impedance is slightly inductive, which indicates the electrical length is just over a quarter wave at 180 kHz. The resistive component is not far off 50 ohms, but most likely it is ground loss swamping the result. We intend to do some LF transmitting in due course, on what is essentially a long wire with mostly horizontal aspect, so we will see what happens. I have also applied to have the 136 kHz band added to my Low Frequency Permit. Nothing like being an optimist .... Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13994 invoked from network); 17 Jul 1999 13:40:16 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 17 Jul 1999 13:40:16 +0100 Received: (qmail 14724 invoked from network); 17 Jul 1999 12:42:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jul 1999 12:42:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 115Tcr-0008Sq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 13:31:33 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mailout09.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.157]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 115Tcq-0008Sl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 13:31:32 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fwd04.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.164]) by mailout09.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 115Tcl-00081E-00; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 14:31:27 +0200 Received: (320057114934-0001(btxid)@[62.158.46.64]) by fwd04.btx.dtag.de id ; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 14:31:13 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 14:31:13 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: DK7UY@geocities.com Subject: LF: New G-stn wkd X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 320057114934-0001@t-online.de From: "DF2PY" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello Lowfers ! Saturday morning we had fairly good condx and i was able to work with G3XTZ on fast-CW.PA0SE was very strong again and DJ5BV as well- all QSOs in fast CW. QRN is low today- lets hope for more DX.The loop is ready and i would like to hear more stations to get a better impression on how the performance really is,because there is nothing that can substitute a real "on the band signal" with all the qsb and qrn etc. 73 and a nice weekend to all lowfers ! de df2py - wolf- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1637 invoked from network); 18 Jul 1999 10:11:48 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Jul 1999 10:11:48 +0100 Received: (qmail 1505 invoked from network); 18 Jul 1999 09:13:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jul 1999 09:13:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 115mkn-0000AR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 09:57:01 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mailout05.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.153]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 115mkm-0000AM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 09:57:01 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fwd05.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.165]) by mailout05.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 115mkj-0004tn-00; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 10:56:57 +0200 Received: (320057114934-0001(btxid)@[62.158.47.188]) by fwd05.btx.dtag.de id ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 10:56:42 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 10:56:42 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: DK7UY@geocities.com Subject: LF: Noiselevel in Rhein-Main area X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 320057114934-0001@t-online.de From: "DF2PY" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello Lowfers ! Managed a fast-cw qso with Dave this morning.Heard Gerd (DJ5BV ) work G4GVC in fast CW- but whatever antenna i tried i was not able to detect G4GVC- the noiselevel here due to the big commercial Transmitters seems to be unbeatable. Gerd lives about 100 miles NW of me and is clearly in a better position QRN-wise.The 100 mi less of distance is advantageous as well.But i guess i will have to wait for very good condx to be able to read the not so powerful UK-stns. 73 and a nice weekend to everyone on LF de wolf - df2py- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21009 invoked from network); 18 Jul 1999 22:08:50 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Jul 1999 22:08:50 +0100 Received: (qmail 8605 invoked from network); 18 Jul 1999 21:10:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jul 1999 21:10:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 115xzR-0005Ga-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:56:53 +0100 Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl ([194.109.30.145]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 115xzQ-0005GV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:56:52 +0100 Received: from v3q4v1 (dc2-isdn872.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.151.104]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA22776 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:56:50 +0200 (CEST) From: "M. Sanders" To: "LF-reflector RSGB" Subject: LF: Weekend report july 16-18 1999 Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:54:42 +0200 Message-ID: <000001bed15f$c2a8e720$68976dc2@v3q4v1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Dear Lowfers It was a nice weekend on LF with a low noise level on saturday and sunday morning. Spectograms from stations heard this weekend have been added to my spectogram page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~misan/gram50.htm (DK8KW, G3XDV, DJ5BV, G3YXM) The follwing stations have been loged: Friday july 16th.: QRS CW: DJ5BV -o- Long after midnight local time some Danish stations OZ1KMR?? (529) and OZ?ND?? (519) came out of the noise in normal CW. They had a QSO in the Danish language, unfortunately the overs faded in the QSB so the callsigns are unceirtain. Saturday july 17th. (only QRV a short periode late in the moring): QRS CW: DK8KW -o- in QSO with G3XDV -o-; DJ5BV -o- (also audible 539) Sunday july 18th: QRS CW: DK8KW -o- (also audible 529) in QSO with G3YXM (also audible 549); DJ5BV -o- (also audible 539). Normal CW: DJ5BV (539); G4GVC (539); G3YXM (559) in QSO with DF2PY (589); Best 73's and good luck on LF Michael Sanders, PA3BSH mailto:pa3bsh@amsat.org From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24372 invoked from network); 18 Jul 1999 22:30:59 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Jul 1999 22:30:59 +0100 Received: (qmail 27200 invoked from network); 18 Jul 1999 21:33:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jul 1999 21:33:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 115yIU-0005R1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:16:34 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 115yIS-0005Qw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:16:33 +0100 Received: from [212.140.35.112] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 115yIM-0007BP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:16:27 +0100 Message-ID: <000001bed162$92d0a4e0$70238cd4@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Cluster postings for 17/18 July at GB7DXM Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:12:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: This looks like another weekend with reasonably low morning QRN levels. The activity on Sunday morning seemed to start at 0543Z (My over-night log using FFTDSP4....I wasn't up to copy it!!) I was just about copying DJ5KW on QRS but wasn't sure who it was until Dave worked Geri at about 0745Z. Geri was just showing above the noise but a lot of the dashes were corrupted. This looks good as my rx set-up is at least 20dB down on most TX-active stations so I reckon you will soon work some more Gs Geri. Someone looked to be about 100 to 150 hz below the band at about 0620 to 0623Z..... whoops! As I type this(about 1950Z) I can see Wolf CQing on 136.8 but difficult to copy as there are a lot of static crunches, not strong but running together. I have a report from F5MLP, Alain, via packet who has just hoisted a 300 metre wire!! tuned with 2.5mH and 1200pF, if I understand correctly. He is most disappointed as he only hears DCF39 at S8. He is using an FT 980, and I suggested that some of the general coverage receivers are not at their best down in the 136kHz range. I do not know his locator but he uses a German BBS, so is presumably somewhere near the border.I have pointed him to the web sites and the reflector. I don't think he has a permit yet for LF. He reports G3XTZ at 209 to 309 on Saturday, so I guess that like me he needs to increase his sensitivity on rx. Cluster postings on GB7DXM 137.1 G4GVC 18-Jul-1999 0716Z 137.7 G3XDV 18-Jul-1999 0703Z cq slow-cw vy strong 136.8 G3YXM 18-Jul-1999 0630Z cq 569 ! 137.7 HB9DFQ 18-Jul-1999 0625Z cq slow-cw 136.8 DJ5DI 17-Jul-1999 1025Z in qso with g3yxm 136.5 DL3FDO 17-Jul-1999 0940Z 136.7 G3XTZ 17-Jul-1999 0919Z clng df2py 137.7 DJ5AO 17-Jul-1999 0855Z slow-cw cq 137.0 DK8KW 17-Jul-1999 0852Z slow-cw 136.7 G3YXM 17-Jul-1999 0834Z in qso with g3xdv 137.0 G4GVC 17-Jul-1999 0830Z in qso with on7yd 136.6 G3YXM 17-Jul-1999 0819Z 137.0 ON7YD 17-Jul-1999 0741Z 137.7 IK5ZPV 17-Jul-1999 0737Z 137.7 HB9ASB 17-Jul-1999 0702Z cq slow-cw 137.7 G3XDV 17-Jul-1999 0651Z cq slow-cw 136.5 PA0ALW 15-Jul-1999 2327Z cq 137.0 ANYBODY 15-Jul-1999 2007Z for a sked now ? 136.8 G3YXM 15-Jul-1999 2019Z cq 136.5 DL3FDO 15-Jul-1999 1954Z G3NYK de GB7DXM 18-Jul 1956Z > 1800.0 G3YXM 18-Jul-1999 1115Z cq 136.74khz G3NYK de GB7DXM 18-Jul 1958Z > 1900.0 DL3FDO 17-Jul-1999 1933Z on 136,5 kHz in QSO wid me 1900.0 DJ5BV 17-Jul-1999 0903Z on 137.00 kHz CQ 1900.0 PA0SE 17-Jul-1999 0707Z on 136.8 kHz in qso wid me G3NYK de GB7DXM 18-Jul 1959Z > 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26597 invoked from network); 18 Jul 1999 22:45:30 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Jul 1999 22:45:30 +0100 Received: (qmail 13127 invoked from network); 18 Jul 1999 21:47:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jul 1999 21:47:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 115yaE-0005aM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:34:54 +0100 Received: from merlins.force9.net ([195.166.128.23]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 115yaD-0005aH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:34:53 +0100 Received: (qmail 15779 invoked from network); 18 Jul 1999 21:34:51 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by merlins.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Jul 1999 21:34:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 20529 invoked from network); 18 Jul 1999 21:34:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO prstesv1) (212.56.120.189) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jul 1999 21:34:50 -0000 Message-ID: <001201bed165$ca7945c0$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Weekend 17/18 Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:37:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Dear all, At last a good weekend on LF ! I worked DJ5BV for the first time on normal CW, rather tricky but reports exchanged OK, on Saturday. He was a better signal on Sunday when working G4GVC, 449 at times. On Sunday I was pleased to have first two-way QRSS QSO with Geri DK8KW with a nice quiet band to work on. I also had a quick QSO with Wolf DF2PY who heard me in QSO and gave me a call so condx must have been good there too. Certainly, judging by Geri's Spectrogram picture of my signal during our QSO, propagation was better than it has been recently. Another new one was Phil G0VSJ in Shifnal, Shropshire with a good signal (569 here) on 136.5. Phil's CW is a bit rusty so go slowly if you call him (I know how he feels from my fumblings last year!). Big news was the DX spot on the OH2AQ internet DX cluster http://oh2aq.kolumbus.com/dxs/137.html which reported that John G4GVC was received in HS6.... that's Thailand... c'mon own up, who posted that one! 73, Dave G3YXM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19408 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 08:45:22 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 08:45:22 +0100 Received: (qmail 29096 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 07:47:54 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 07:47:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1167l8-0001Oa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 08:22:46 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1167l5-0001OU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 08:22:43 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA17367 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:28:27 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990719092414.2db72fc2@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:24:14 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Horizontal polarisation on LF? In-reply-to: <378FA25C.4435@xtra.co.nz> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: At 09:21 17/07/99 +1200, ZL2CA wrote: >Hi all, >One New Zealand amateur, Bruce ZL1WB, uses a very long wire strung out >over a gully, and with only 30 watts of RF power applied, is the most >often copied ZL LF amateur station in Australia (spanning the Tasman >Sea, a definite sky wave path, signals are zero much of the time during >daylight hours). So there is a suggestion that the very long wire that >is mostly horizontal in nature does provide good LF DX. Any idea how high (above ground) the antenna of ZL1WB is ? I might have acces to a 800m (0.36 lambda) abandoned telephone line, but the wire will be only about 6 meter above ground. Will this work or will I only get in the Guinnessbook of records for the largest dummyload ever ? 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5064 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 09:58:32 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 09:58:32 +0100 Received: (qmail 3908 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 09:01:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 09:01:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116991-00025C-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:51:31 +0100 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116990-000257-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:51:30 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 11699U-00031i-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:52:00 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:44:26 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:46:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Weekend Report 17/18 July X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Saturday 17 July Got up early (0540UTC). Pleased to find no local QRM and no QRN. Conditions good, too. Received seven mainland Eu stations before my first G! CW contacts with: PA0SE (gave 579; got 569 - best ever report from Dick); HB9ASB (gave 329, missed my report! - would have been my best normal CW DX if the QSO had been valid); DJ5DI (439, 329 - a new one for me and my first DL using normal CW); G3YXM (599, 589). QRSs contact with DK8KW (O/O). His first G QSO. This is a classic example of LF operation - the two of us trying to work for several weeks and managing it after improvements at both ends. Parts of the QSO can be seen on two Spectrograms on my web site, and Spectrogams on his site show how my signal has improved in recent weeks.Called by someone very weak at the end of this QSO - got my callsign 100% but QRM came up and I missed his call. Does anyone know who this was? Heard: DF2PY (569); G4GVC (599) Saw QRSs on Spectrogram screen from IK5ZPV (O); DJ5BV (O and audible at S2). Sunday 18 July Another quiet morning. QRN later. Heard: DF2PY (579); G3YXM (5 9+10 9); G0MRF (599); G3BDQ (599); G4GVC (599); G6RO 559. Saw QRSs from: DJ5BV (O and audible at S2); DK8KW (O and - just- audible at S1). No QSOs. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15383 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 10:47:07 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 10:47:07 +0100 Received: (qmail 2161 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 09:49:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 09:49:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1169tI-0002TL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:39:20 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1169tH-0002TG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:39:19 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:38:46 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de (PC108207.dial.uni-kiel.de [134.245.108.207]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA13200 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:38:53 +0200 (MET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3792F221.FEDAB198@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:38:41 +0200 From: "Peter W. Schnoor" Organization: University of Kiel, Clinic of Nephrology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Horizontal polarisation on LF? References: <3.0.1.16.19990719092414.2db72fc2@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello, Rik Strobbe wrote: > [...] > I might have acces to a 800m (0.36 lambda) abandoned telephone line, but > the wire will be only about 6 meter above ground. Will this work or will I > only get in the Guinnessbook of records for the largest dummyload ever ? Simulation with ELNEC shows the following: Driven as dipole over "average" ground it will be a nice cloudburner with -10 dBi. At 5° elevation you will get -31 / -16 dBi ("8-pattern"). Feed point impedance will be approx. 5.5-j500 Ohms. Anyone out there to check this using NECx + SOMNEC ? Compared to John's (G0AKN) "Earth Base" trials this could be a very interesting experiment... 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3215 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 14:12:03 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 14:12:03 +0100 Received: (qmail 26155 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 13:14:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 13:14:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116D4R-00044q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:03:03 +0100 Received: from smtp.mail.big-orange.net ([143.179.236.31] helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116D4N-00044k-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:03:00 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.151.57]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAC5C7A; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:02:51 +0200 Message-ID: <001601bed1e7$a7b8a8a0$3997b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Cc: "Koos Fockens, PA0KDF" , "Klaas Spaargaren, PA0KSB" , "Jan Hekkert, PA3HCD" , "Jaap Kroon, PA0IF" , "Hendrik de Waard, PA0ZX" , "Hans Peltzer, PA0HRP" , "Ger van Went, PA0GER" Subject: LF: ERP and all that jazz Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:06:14 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All
 
As I am an amateur on matters of antennas and propagation I enlisted the help of Koos Fockens, PA0KDF, who is
professionally involved. At my request Koos quoted the following definitions from the Radio Regulations (1994; RR1-25):
 
6.24 Gain of an Antenna:
The ratio, usually expressed in decibels, of power required at the input of a loss-free reference antenna to the power
supplied to the input of the given antenna to produce, in a given direction, the same field strength or the same power
flux-density at the same distance. When not specified otherwise, the gain refers to the direction of maximum
radiation. The gain may be considered for a specified polarization.
 
Depending on the choice of the reference antenna a distinction is made between:
 
a) absolute or isotropic gain (Gi), when the reference antenna is an isotropic antenna isolated in space;
 
b) gain relative to a half-wave dipole (Gd), when the reference antenna is a half-wave dipole isolated in space whose
equatorial plane contains the given direction;
 
c) gain relative to a short vertical antenna (Gv), when the reference antenna is a linear conductor, much shorter than one
quarter of the wavelength, normal to the surface of a perfect conducting plane which contains the given direction.
 
6.25 Equivalent Isotropic Radiated Power (e.i.r.p.):
The product of the power supplied to the antenna and the antenna gain in a given direction relative to an isotropic
antenna (absolute or isotropic gain).
 
6.26 Effective Radiated Power (e.r.p.):
The product of the power supplied to the antenna and its gain relative to a half-wave dipole in a given direction.
 
6.27 Effective Monopole Radiated Power (e.m.r.p.) (in a given
direction):
The product of the power supplied to the antenna and its gain relative to a short vertical antenna in a given direction.
 
Now on the subject of measuring field strength using CCIR Recommendation 368-7. I quote from the document;
"The propagation curves in this Recommendation are calculated for the following assumptions:
 
- they refer to a smooth homogeneous spherical Earth;
 
- in the troposphere, the index decreases exponentially with height, as described in Recommendation 369;
 
- both the transmitting and the receiving antennas are at ground level;
 
- the radiating element is a short vertical monopole. Assuming such a vertical antenna to be on the surface of a perfectly
conducting plane Earth, and excited so as to radiate 1 kW, the field strength at a distance of 1 km would be 300 mV/m; this
corresponds to a cymomotive force of 300 V (see Recommendation 525);
 
- the curves are drawn for distances measured around the curved surface of the Earth;
 
- the curves give the value of the vertical field-strength component of the radiation field, i.e. that which can be
effectively measured in the far-field of the antenna. 
 
So what we measure in the far field is the field strength caused by the power that must be fed to a short vertical
monopole over the type of earth used for the graphs.
 
Koos, PA0KDF points out that your real antenna may be radiating more power because the measured field strength is that of the
ground wave on the surface of the earth. But the antenna may be radiating in other directions as well, for instance upwards
(which is of use when the sky wave helps you to make a QSO over a great distance) or downwards into the (non-
perfect) earth, power that is lost for propagation.
 
The total power radiated by the antenna is the product of the antenna current squared and the radiation resistance (I called
this earlier the power "dissipated" in the radiation resistance). Because not all power radiated propagates along
the earth surface as ground wave it is not possible to find the power radiated as ground wave by measuring the antenna current
and after squaring multiplying it by the radiation resistance as found for instance from an antenna simulation computer program.
For the same reason the radiation resistance cannot be found by working backwards from the measured field strength and the
antenna current.
 
When instead of the power fed to a vertical monopole, as used in Recommendation 368-7, you want to express the power as
e.r.p., you have to replace the monopole on its earth by a vertical, loss-free half-wave dipole, and find the power that
has to be fed to that dipole that produces the same field strength as the monopole. Now here we have a problem: for this exercise we need to know the gain of the monopole over the dipole. In case of a monopole over perfect earth this gain is 1.83 times (not 1.83
dB!). I stated earlier that this factor should be used for converting the power as found by field strength measurement to
e.r.p. But I take that back.Your and my monopole are not over perfect earth. So what is the gain? And so what is the
e.r.p.? I don't know the answer ....(And how does the Radio Agency in the UK find the e.r.p.?)
Maybe it is better to avoid using e.r.p. at all.
What you could use is e.i.r.p., see the definition given above.
 
As stated before  instead of using the CCIR curves the following equation can be used near the transmitter but in the far field:
 
P = 0.0111 * (E * d)^2 in which
 
P in watt
E in mV/m
d in km.
^2 means squared
* means multiplication
 
The equation is valid in case of propagation over perfect earth. But the CCIR curves show that water or real earth may for our purpose be considered as perfect earth up to at least 3.5 km from the transmitter; the recommended minimum distance for measuring field strength in the far field. Only in case of very dry ground the CCIR curves should be applied.
 
You can state your income in for instance pound sterling or dollar. The figures are different but the exercise does not
make you any the richer or poorer.
The same applies to the different ways of expressing power found by field strength measurement. It does not make your
signal stronger or weaker.
 
The financial people have found a solution for the problem of varying exchange rates: the euro.
 
Should we do the same and express the power found by field strength measurement in eurowatt?
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
JO22GD
D.W. Rollema
V.d. Marckstraat 5
2352 RA Leiderdorp
The Netherlands
Tel. +31 71 589 27 34
E-mail: d.w.rollema@gironet.nl
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5413 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 14:21:03 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 14:21:03 +0100 Received: (qmail 25788 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 13:23:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 13:23:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116DEM-000496-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:13:18 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116DEL-000491-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:13:17 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA16201 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:19:01 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990719151449.322f8760@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:14:49 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Horizontal polarisation on LF? In-reply-to: <3792F221.FEDAB198@nephro.uni-kiel.de> References: <3.0.1.16.19990719092414.2db72fc2@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: At 11:38 19/07/99 +0200, DF3LP wrote: >Simulation with ELNEC shows the following: > >Driven as dipole over "average" ground it will be a nice >cloudburner with -10 dBi. >At 5° elevation you will get -31 / -16 dBi ("8-pattern"). > >Feed point impedance will be approx. 5.5-j500 Ohms. > >Anyone out there to check this using NECx + SOMNEC ? > >Compared to John's (G0AKN) "Earth Base" trials this could be >a very interesting experiment... > >54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag >73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP > Hallo Peter, und wie würde das Gebilde funktionieren wenn es endgespeist wäre ? Dan müste ich die Telefonleitung nicht in der Mitte unterbrechen. 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14144 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 23:14:53 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 23:14:53 +0100 Received: (qmail 4326 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 22:16:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 22:16:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116LOz-00085p-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:56:49 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [203.96.92.3] (helo=mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116LOy-00085j-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:56:48 +0100 Received: from [202.27.178.25] by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990719215912.RPAD956294.mta2-rme@[202.27.178.25]> for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:59:12 +1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37939CCA.6619@xtra.co.nz> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:46:50 +1200 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Horizontal polarisation on LF? References: <3.0.1.16.19990719092414.2db72fc2@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > > At 09:21 17/07/99 +1200, ZL2CA wrote: > >Hi all, > >One New Zealand amateur, Bruce ZL1WB, uses a very long wire strung out > >over a gully, and with only 30 watts of RF power applied, is the most > >often copied ZL LF amateur station in Australia (spanning the Tasman > >Sea, a definite sky wave path, signals are zero much of the time during > >daylight hours). So there is a suggestion that the very long wire that > >is mostly horizontal in nature does provide good LF DX. > > Any idea how high (above ground) the antenna of ZL1WB is ? > I might have acces to a 800m (0.36 lambda) abandoned telephone line, but > the wire will be only about 6 meter above ground. Will this work or will I > only get in the Guinnessbook of records for the largest dummyload ever ? The long wire straddles a deep gully, but the wire has considerable sag. The wire is a thinner type of power line wire, as it needs to survive strong wind conditions. Conventional wooden pole supports are used, and height above ground is only 4 or 5 metres in places, but obviously the route is strategically placed to get a good span of the main gully. I have visited the farm site, but it is difficult to describe the situation in a brief message. Thus the sagging wire, over an irregular terrain gully, is fairly difficult to model with software. But whether or not it is adequately modelled, ZL1WB has done very well with log book entries and QSL cards. I think it is worth trying long wires in practice for LF transmitting, and whether it breaks records for dummy loads or DX will soon be apparent. Not many amateur sites have room for a very long wire. In this respect, the ZL1WB long wire has a remote controlled transmitter, as the "selected site" is a few kilometres from his QTH, at a farm building with mains power. Regards, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17611 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 23:33:11 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 23:33:12 +0100 Received: (qmail 3966 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 22:35:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 22:35:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116LnS-0008HF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:22:06 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116LnR-0008HA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:22:05 +0100 Received: from [195.171.224.91] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 116LnN-0005t2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:22:02 +0100 Message-ID: <000501bed234$e4d13200$5be0abc3@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: re Rik's 800m wire Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:11:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Well Rik, if nothing else it would be fascinating to hear how well it acts as a receive wire. I presume it will be the usual steel cored wire so it may not be too good to try and get big transmit currents flowing, but it could act as an interesting extrapolation beyond what most of us are able to erect. I eagerly await your tests. Cheers de Alan G3NYK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17964 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 23:35:07 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 23:35:07 +0100 Received: (qmail 6849 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 22:37:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 22:37:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116LnQ-0008H8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:22:04 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116LnN-0008H3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:22:03 +0100 Received: from [195.171.224.91] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 116LnL-0005t2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:21:59 +0100 Message-ID: <000401bed234$e39b7120$5be0abc3@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: re G4GVC heard in HS6 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:59:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: I can let you into a little secret Dave, John has been surruptitiously beavering away there to gain the upper hand again on 136. How to you think he cured his noise problem??....by sucking out all the mains current for about one wavelength around his qth, and converting this into signal in his new 2MW thyristor PA. The advantage is that with no mains to drive the TVs John gets no TVI, though the neighbours are a bit bemused about the clear-sky electrical storms that seem to appear every Sunday morning. I think John got a presentation Coffee mug from East Midlands Electric! Thats going to get Finbar going again!! 73 de Alan G3NYK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18250 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 23:36:26 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 23:36:26 +0100 Received: (qmail 6965 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 22:38:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 22:38:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116Lqo-0008KS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:25:34 +0100 Received: from cask.force9.net ([195.166.128.29]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116Lqn-0008KN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:25:33 +0100 Received: (qmail 9353 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 22:25:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO caffreys.force9.net) (195.166.128.121) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 22:25:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 21764 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 22:26:16 -0000 Received: from mashie.force9.net (195.166.128.30) by caffreys.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 22:26:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 1275 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 22:25:20 -0000 Received: from caffreys.force9.net (195.166.128.121) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 22:25:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 21761 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 22:26:14 -0000 Received: from mashie.force9.net (195.166.128.30) by caffreys.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 22:26:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 1272 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 22:25:19 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 22:25:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 22546 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 22:25:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO prstesv1) (212.56.95.41) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 22:25:17 -0000 Message-ID: <003e01bed236$023a6180$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Horizontal polarisation on LF? Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:28:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Dear all, The important thing about any LF antenna is to ensure that the wire is supported by good insulators, nothing kills the Q of a system like a wire touching a damp tree or similar lossy structure. I am sure a low wire will work, I have had good QSOs on 160 with my kite wire lying on the ground after the wind dropped, average height about half a metre! Please try it Rik! 73, Dave G3YXM > >The long wire straddles a deep gully, but the wire has considerable >sag. The wire is a thinner type of power line wire, as it needs to >survive strong wind conditions. Conventional wooden pole supports are >used, and height above ground is only 4 or 5 metres in places, but >obviously the route is strategically placed to get a good span of the >main gully. I have visited the farm site, but it is difficult to >describe the situation in a brief message. Thus the sagging wire, over >an irregular terrain gully, is fairly difficult to model with software. >But whether or not it is adequately modelled, ZL1WB has done very well >with log book entries and QSL cards. > >I think it is worth trying long wires in practice for LF transmitting, >and whether it breaks records for dummy loads or DX will soon be >apparent. Not many amateur sites have room for a very long wire. In >this respect, the ZL1WB long wire has a remote controlled transmitter, >as the "selected site" is a few kilometres from his QTH, at a farm >building with mains power. > >Regards, > >Bob ZL2CA > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 966 invoked from network); 20 Jul 1999 00:45:32 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 20 Jul 1999 00:45:32 +0100 Received: (qmail 12689 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 23:48:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 23:48:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116Mzf-0000Yd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 00:38:47 +0100 Received: from kang.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.28]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116Mzd-0000YW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 00:38:45 +0100 Received: from p151.lifford1.tinet.ie ([159.134.235.151] helo=beachwood.tinet.ie) by kang.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 116MzZ-0003XO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 00:38:41 +0100 Message-ID: <002501bed240$3cdb56a0$97eb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: re: Photo's Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 00:40:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Is it permissible to send photo's to the group. I have some shots of my LF gear  and antenna system, plus the large ATU coil and tuning units etc. I have J.PEG  them to reduce the size, average size ....about  150 Kb.
Perhaps members of the group would like to see some ACTUAL pictures of members  station, to give them some ideas.
Best regards
Finbar    EI0CF    Malin Head.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27024 invoked from network); 20 Jul 1999 08:54:08 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 20 Jul 1999 08:54:08 +0100 Received: (qmail 15814 invoked from network); 20 Jul 1999 07:56:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Jul 1999 07:56:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116UTS-0003nr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 08:38:02 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116UTR-0003nm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 08:38:01 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:37:25 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de (PC108192.dial.uni-kiel.de [134.245.108.192]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15888 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:37:34 +0200 (MET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37942730.EC742179@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:37:20 +0200 From: "Peter W. Schnoor" Organization: University of Kiel, Clinic of Nephrology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Horizontal polarisation on LF? References: <3.0.1.16.19990719092414.2db72fc2@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <3.0.1.16.19990719151449.322f8760@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hallo lieber Rik, Rik Strobbe wrote: > > und wie würde das Gebilde funktionieren wenn es endgespeist wäre ? > Dan müste ich die Telefonleitung nicht in der Mitte unterbrechen. Ja, dass scheint kein Problem zu sein. Allerdings steigt der Blindanteil sehr stark an. Die Polarisation ist uebrigens in der Hauptrichtung (Drahtrichtung!!!) vertikal (16dBi gain). Selbst wenn Du das Ding als inverted-L speisen wuerdest, saehe das Strahlungsdiagramm kaum anders aus (Impedanz:15+j510 Ohm). Ich habe mal mit 50 Ohm Erdverlust gerechnet und kaum eine Veraenderung des Strahlungdiagramms beobachten koennen. Die 31 dBi zur Seite sind allerdings horizontal polarisiert, der Vertikalanteil geht dort fast bis 0 runter. Die Antenne hat demnach schon sehr stark Langdraht- / Beverageeigenschaften, obwohl Received: (qmail 3635 invoked from network); 20 Jul 1999 09:29:31 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 20 Jul 1999 09:29:31 +0100 Received: (qmail 19524 invoked from network); 20 Jul 1999 08:31:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Jul 1999 08:31:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116Uk0-0003uW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 08:55:08 +0100 Received: from artemis.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.126]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116Ujz-0003uB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 08:55:07 +0100 Received: from pc171.geog.le.ac.uk ([143.210.151.171] helo=kate) by artemis.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 116Ujy-00078s-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 08:55:06 +0100 Message-ID: <001e01bed284$05065650$ab97d28f@kate.geog.le.ac.uk> From: "Kate Moore" To: "lfgroup" Subject: LF: Weekend report Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 08:46:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Stations worked here over the weekend on 136kHz using normal speed CW: Saturday 17/7 DJ5DI (08.00UT: gave him 559, he gave me 539), PA0SE (08.10: 579, 589), EI0CF (11.03: 579, 569). Sunday 18/7 DJ5BV (07.08: 339, 429), G6RO (08.10: 589, 59+9), ON7YD (08.52: 559, 549). I wasn't very active either last weekend or this, but whenever I did take a listen there seemed plenty of activity. The previous Sunday I had copied a weak, chirpy beacon from Richard G0VXG in Telford and, having alerted him by telephone, tried to work him. Unfortunately he has a very high local noise level and we had to go out before I managed it. Has anyone else worked him yet? On Thursday (15/7) evening at 21.08UT I copied a good 569 signal from Valerio IK5ZPV despite the high static levels. We had a crossband QSO (me on 80m) but he couldn't hear my LF signal under the noise. I was very pleased to hear Mike G3XDV working DJ5DI with normal speed CW on Saturday morning. Well done Mike - the improvements are really showing now. Sunday morning was quite busy between 07.00 and 09.00UT with at least seven G-stations, three Germans and one Belgian station active - and those are just what I heard whilst I was operating myself - not bad for mid-summer! During the QSO with DJ5BV, his signal came up to 559 towards the end of the contact; the strongest I have ever heard him. Regards John G4GVC near Leicester, IO92JP ** TX: Synth + 400W RF from modified 'G3YXM' Mosfet PA ** ** RX: TS-850S with 3 x CW filters and 0.5ppm TCXO ** ** Ant: Inv-L 60m long, 6m high at feed end, 12m high at far en ** From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14149 invoked from network); 20 Jul 1999 10:16:34 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 20 Jul 1999 10:16:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 24126 invoked from network); 20 Jul 1999 09:19:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Jul 1999 09:19:12 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116Ur1-0003z0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:02:23 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ns.cro.cz ([193.179.196.2] ident=qmailr) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116Uqy-0003yu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:02:21 +0100 Received: (qmail 13386 invoked from network); 20 Jul 1999 08:02:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from fw.cro.cz (HELO ns-int.cro.cz) (193.179.197.2) by ns.cro.cz with SMTP; 20 Jul 1999 08:02:05 -0000 Received: from radiohk.hk.cro.cz (ns.hk.cro.cz [172.27.1.2]) by ns-int.cro.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA26688 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:02:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc033hk.hk.cro.cz ([172.27.1.33]) by radiohk.hk.cro.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA18742 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:01:58 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by pc033hk.hk.cro.cz with Microsoft Mail id <01BED296.E73FD480@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz>; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:01:57 +-200 Message-ID: <01BED296.E73FD480@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> From: "OK1FIG" To: "'137 kHz'" Subject: LF: My QRV Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:01:56 +-200 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello all. I will be QRV from 21st to 25th July from the cottage. I have prepared 250 W RF. I will go with normal CW only. I will stick to full hour rule (check first 10 minutes of each hour). I hope to do at least one normal CW QSO. I will call CQ and listen in mornings as well as in evenings. See you there. This is the last message from my present e-mail address. With the next message I am signing off. All the best to you, Lowfers! Petr, OK1FIG, Hradec Kralove, Czech rep. http://www.mujweb.cz/WWW/OK1FIG/index.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15647 invoked from network); 20 Jul 1999 10:23:33 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 20 Jul 1999 10:23:33 +0100 Received: (qmail 24874 invoked from network); 20 Jul 1999 09:26:11 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Jul 1999 09:26:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116V3f-00043u-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:15:27 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116V3e-00043p-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:15:26 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA09079 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:21:07 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990720101649.2c7f313a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:16:49 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: re Rik's 800m wire In-reply-to: <000501bed234$e4d13200$5be0abc3@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: At 23:11 19/07/99 +0100, you wrote: >Well Rik, if nothing else it would be fascinating to hear how well it acts >as a receive wire. I presume it will be the usual steel cored wire so it may >not be too good to try and get big transmit currents flowing, but it could >act as an interesting extrapolation beyond what most of us are able to >erect. I eagerly await your tests. >Cheers de Alan G3NYK > A ham I know works at the Belgian telephone company Belgacom. He is investigating if it is possible to get acces to some abandoned phonelines. It probably will be an activity for later on the year, I will inform the LF group about any experiments I will do in that direction. 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17416 invoked from network); 20 Jul 1999 10:33:13 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 20 Jul 1999 10:33:13 +0100 Received: (qmail 25913 invoked from network); 20 Jul 1999 09:35:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Jul 1999 09:35:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116VuJ-0004UI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:09:51 +0100 Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116VuG-0004U6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:09:48 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:09:06 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de ([194.94.166.130]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA24565 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:09:15 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <37943C5D.25E9074F@nephro.uni-kiel.de> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:07:41 +0200 From: "P. W. Schnoor" Organization: Clinic of Nephrology, University of Kiel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586) X-Accept-Language: de, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Horizontal polarisation on LF? References: <3.0.1.16.19990719092414.2db72fc2@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <3.0.1.16.19990719151449.322f8760@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <37942730.EC742179@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Oh, sorry, made the same mistake... :) Greetings, Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5635 invoked from network); 20 Jul 1999 16:06:02 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 20 Jul 1999 16:06:02 +0100 Received: (qmail 2743 invoked from network); 20 Jul 1999 15:08:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Jul 1999 15:08:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116bB3-0006tw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:47:29 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com ([198.81.17.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116bB2-0006tp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:47:28 +0100 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.25) id lOEJa01152 (578) for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:45:15 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <16d21cb2.24c5e57b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:45:15 EDT Subject: Re: LF: ERP and all that jazz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 70 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: In a message dated 99-07-19 09:08:45 EDT, PA0SE writes: << Maybe it is better to avoid using e.r.p. at all. What you could use is e.i.r.p. . . . . >> Yes, I believe this is far better. EIRP is already the equivalent of the "eurowatt." It is the measure used in nearly all commercial situations now. If you know EIRP in the direction of interest, it is not necessary to know anything about the transmitting antenna (except its location, of course) in order to predict field strengths along a given path. Or, conversely, if field strength can be measured, EIRP can be determined without reference to antenna type. Hence, EIRP is easier to deal with and can be applied almost universally. In the U.S., because the FCC already specifies EIRP for the radiated power of most services, our LF ham bands are likely to be limited to 200 W TPO and a maximum of 2 W EIRP, assuming something similar to the ARRL petition is adopted. This means that (if we have reason to suspect our antennae are anywhere near one percent efficient) we will have to find the direction of strongest radiation from the antenna, and determine EIRP by measurement in that direction. However, it will be far more practical to do this than to make guesses about ground system losses and relative gain versus a dipole, etc. Although amateurs have tended to use the term ERP rather loosely, and I'm not at all sure what each administration actually implemented, didn't the CEPT recommend the power limit on 136 kHz in terms of EIRP? 73, John KD4IDY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28000 invoked from network); 20 Jul 1999 19:42:45 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 20 Jul 1999 19:42:45 +0100 Received: (qmail 20632 invoked from network); 20 Jul 1999 18:44:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Jul 1999 18:44:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116eVQ-0001O1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:20:44 +0100 Received: from smtp.mail.big-orange.net ([143.179.236.32] helo=Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116eVP-0001Nq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:20:43 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.150.113]) by Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA5A3B; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 20:20:32 +0200 Message-ID: <001701bed2dd$35c59860$7196b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Cc: "Pieter Bruinsma" , "Mike Perry, PA7XG" , "Koos Fockens, PA0KDF" , "Klaas Spaargaren, PA0KSB" , "Jan Hekkert, PA3HCD" , "Ger van Went, PA0GER" Subject: LF: Fw: Antenna Software Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 20:22:56 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Roy Lewallen Aan: Dick Rollema Datum: dinsdag 20 juli 1999 19:35 Onderwerp: Re: Antenna Software >Dick, > >Only the professional versions of EZNEC (EZNEC-M and EZNEC/4) directly >report the ground wave. However, a reasonable approximation of the >ground wave field strength can be gotten by using the EZNEC near field >analysis. This is because the "near field" analysis actually calculates >the total field, both near and far, including the ground wave. The near >field analysis results are available only as numbers; they are not >plotted as a graphical pattern. > >Roy Lewallen, W7EL > >> Dick Rollema wrote: >> >> Dear Roy, >> >> Quite a few countries in Europe now have made the 136 kHz longwave >> band available to amateurs. >> >> Although at night some sky wave propagation may be present most of the >> contacts are made via the so called surface wave. >> >> I wonder whether EZNEC and ELNEC produce proper radiation patterns for >> that kind of wave propagation? >> >> 73, Dick, PA0SE >> >> D.W. Rollema >> V.d. Marckstraat 5 >> 2352 RA Leiderdorp >> The Netherlands >> Tel. +31 71 589 27 34 >> E-mail: d.w.rollema@gironet.nl > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27425 invoked from network); 21 Jul 1999 00:25:02 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Jul 1999 00:25:02 +0100 Received: (qmail 17272 invoked from network); 20 Jul 1999 23:27:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Jul 1999 23:27:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116j5D-0003fX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 00:13:59 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116j5B-0003fR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 00:13:57 +0100 Received: from [195.171.238.110] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 116j59-0006Mp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 00:13:55 +0100 Message-ID: <000101bed305$4e4e3cc0$6eeeabc3@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: A help with rx sensitivity ?? Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 00:09:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Mike G3XDV, mentioned using DCF39 as a standard signal for comparing aerial performance, in a previous exchange which culminated in the fascinating article and results reported by Dick PA0SE. This has just surfaced again for me as I have had another packet contact with F5MLP. As you may remember he has erected a 300m wire in anticipation of getting a permit for 136. He is disappointed in its performance, and has sent a bull round the packet network asking for other stations reading of the strength of DCF39. It occurs to me that this is a fairly meaningless quest unless the stations replying are really 'switched-on' to LF aerial tuning and performance. It also occurs to me that a definitive list of measurements on the station from different locations might form a useful guide to newcommer's to the band as well as lazy old ones like me!) I don't want to clog the reflector with what many might regard as junk, so I am suggesting that I am willing to collect and collate (via e-mail to my personal address below) any reports that you would like to send to me direct. As a guide may I suggest :- Call Locator Aerial Receiver (S-meter ) DCF39 DCF39 noise level Calibration) (day) (after dark) (quiet day) There is a lot of room for discussion on what is important and what is not, but maybe this could serve as a basis to collect some guidance data. I know we think that there is not much difference in the day and night signal from the station, but does everybody find it so? As for the s-meter calibration I am thinking of something like 'S-9 = 50uV' or something similar. If the formula that Dick refers to does work we should be able to work out the field strength at any location in the reception area of DCF39. Qualifying comments accepted, if you care to add them. When I have collected a reasonable number of reports I will post the results as a digest to the reflector for all to see. I hope you will see this as a worthwhile exercise and deluge me with reports! 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15583 invoked from network); 21 Jul 1999 07:08:21 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Jul 1999 07:08:21 +0100 Received: (qmail 10696 invoked from network); 21 Jul 1999 06:10:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jul 1999 06:10:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116pHI-0006Qy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 06:50:52 +0100 Received: from mail5.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116pHG-0006Qt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 06:50:51 +0100 Received: from modem-62.promethium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.30.62] helo=default) by mail5.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 116pHE-0007lv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 06:50:49 +0100 Message-ID: <000001bed33d$159b07e0$3e1e883e@default> From: "wireless" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002501bed240$3cdb56a0$97eb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> Subject: LF: sea antenna tests - August 14 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 07:23:27 +0100 Organization: T@ylor Training MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit ÿþ< From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5585 invoked from network); 21 Jul 1999 09:22:44 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Jul 1999 09:22:44 +0100 Received: (qmail 31186 invoked from network); 21 Jul 1999 08:24:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jul 1999 08:24:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116rWk-0007Ro-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:14:58 +0100 Received: from mailout07.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.155]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116rWi-0007Ri-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:14:56 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fwd04.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.164]) by mailout07.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 116rWc-0005To-00; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:14:50 +0200 Received: (320057114934-0001(btxid)@[62.158.46.95]) by fwd04.btx.dtag.de id ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:14:39 +0200 Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:14:39 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: DK7UY@geocities.com References: <000101bed305$4e4e3cc0$6eeeabc3@default> Subject: Re: LF: A help with rx sensitivity ?? X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 320057114934-0001@t-online.de From: "DF2PY" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi Alan ! I observe DCF 39 very regularly,as it is menacing my receiving all the time. I found that there is a certain difference in its fields -vertical/horizontal power containment.When i put up my new and higher antenna i did lessen the amount of horizontal wire by lenght - though i have more shorter horizontal wires higher now.That means i have less horizontal pick-up.And the first thing i found is that DCF 39 was about 5 db down on the new antenna.The rest of the equipment untouched.It is not due to less efficiency of the new antenna as everybody told the signal being better now.What i want to say is,that somebody could be misleaded in his efforts by doing comparisons before and after alterations,especially if the change involved a major shift from horizontal elements to vertical elements of the radiator total length.These are just my findings and thats why i fully agree with You about the meaningless of the measurements that should be taken,but who knows what further insight that may bring.Good Dx to everyone ! de wolf -df2py- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11027 invoked from network); 21 Jul 1999 11:46:38 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Jul 1999 11:46:38 +0100 Received: (qmail 1727 invoked from network); 21 Jul 1999 10:48:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jul 1999 10:48:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116tly-0008UT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:38:50 +0100 Received: from mb05.swip.net ([193.12.122.209]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116tlx-0008UO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:38:49 +0100 Received: from s-257519 (dialup119-1-7.swipnet.se [130.244.119.7]) by mb05.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA11851 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 12:38:46 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000501bed365$3ac06ec0$0777f482@s-257519> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: LF antenna bridge Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 12:38:53 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello all, I have uploaded a description of a simple antenna impedance bridge to my web site. http://home4.swipnet.se/~w-41522/bridge/bridge.html 73 de Johan Bodin, SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6828 invoked from network); 21 Jul 1999 13:41:58 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Jul 1999 13:41:58 +0100 Received: (qmail 27266 invoked from network); 21 Jul 1999 12:44:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jul 1999 12:44:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116vZO-0000qM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:33:58 +0100 Received: from smtp.mail.big-orange.net ([143.179.236.31] helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116vZL-0000qH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:33:56 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.150.201]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA3397 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 14:33:42 +0200 Message-ID: <000c01bed375$edbbe120$c996b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Re: A help with rx sensitivity ?? Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 14:37:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Alan, G3NYK wrote: >Mike G3XDV, mentioned using DCF39 as a standard signal for comparing aerial >performance, in a previous exchange which culminated in the fascinating >article and results reported by Dick PA0SE. This has just surfaced again for >me as I have had another packet contact with F5MLP. As you may remember he >has erected a 300m wire in anticipation of getting a permit for 136. He is >disappointed in its performance, and has sent a bull round the packet >network asking for other stations reading of the strength of DCF39. > >It occurs to me that this is a fairly meaningless quest unless the stations >replying are really 'switched-on' to LF aerial tuning and performance. It >also occurs to me that a definitive list of measurements on the station from >different locations might form a useful guide to newcommer's to the band > as well as lazy old ones like me!) >I don't want to clog the reflector with what many might regard as junk, so I >am suggesting that I am willing to collect and collate (via e-mail to my >personal address below) any reports that you would like to send to me >direct. >As a guide may I suggest :- >Call Locator Aerial Receiver (S-meter ) DCF39 DCF39 noise >level > Calibration) (day) (after >dark) (quiet day) >There is a lot of room for discussion on what is important and what is not, >but maybe this could serve as a basis to collect some guidance data. >I know we think that there is not much difference in the day and night >signal from the station, but does everybody find it so? As for the s-meter >calibration I am thinking of something like 'S-9 = 50uV' or something >similar. If the formula that Dick refers to does work we should be able to >work out the field strength at any location in the reception area of DCF39. >Qualifying comments accepted, if you care to add them. > >When I have collected a reasonable number of reports I will post the results >as a digest to the reflector for all to see. >I hope you will see this as a worthwhile exercise and deluge me with >reports! >73 de Alan G3NYK >Alan.Melia@btinternet.com I don't think this is a reliable method. I have measured the field strength of DCF39 at my location as reported in my e-mail of 15-7-99 15.28. The power of DCF39, as deduced from the field strength was unlikely high. In a telephone call Gamal Soegiono pointed out that the signal I received from DCF39 was not only by ground wave but also by skywave. I had not expected this because the day to day variation of the signal, as measured by my selective level meter, is very small, less than 1 dB. At least during daytime; after dark the variations become much larger. Gamal Soegiono's remark is supported by Vaino, OH2LX. He has professionally measured the signal of DCF39 for more than 10 years, 24 hrs a day, at a location 1545 km from DCF39. The graphs Vaino has sent me show large variations from day tot day and also over the 24 hrs of a day. I will be happy to send the graphs to anyone interested with a direct e-mail as the reflector does not accept messages with attachments of large size. So near DCF39, where the skywave is very weak as compared o the ground wave, the DCF39 signal could probably be used as a kind of yardstick. But al large distances, and I suppose that applies to the UK, one should be careful in interpreting the results. I am also compiling the interesting info Vaino has given me into a single e-mail without attachments. You will receive that via the reflector one of the coming days. 73, Dick, PA0SE JO22GD D.W. Rollema V.d. Marckstraat 5 2352 RA Leiderdorp Tel. +31 71 589 27 34 E-mail: d.w.rollema@gironet.nl From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3799 invoked from network); 21 Jul 1999 15:31:06 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Jul 1999 15:31:06 +0100 Received: (qmail 21257 invoked from network); 21 Jul 1999 14:33:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jul 1999 14:33:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116xDw-0001db-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 15:19:56 +0100 Received: from smtp.mail.big-orange.net ([143.179.236.32] helo=Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116xDq-0001dW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 15:19:51 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.150.42]) by Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA723E; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:19:42 +0200 Message-ID: <000f01bed384$bbe45600$2a96b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Cc: "Koos Fockens, PA0KDF" , "Klaas Spaargaren, PA0KSB" , "Jaap Kroon, PA0IF" , "Hendrik de Waard, PA0ZX" Subject: LF: OH2LX comments on measuring field strength Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:23:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE
 
With Vaino, OH2LX, I have exchanged several e-mail messages on the
subject of measuring field strength.
Vaino has many years of experience in that field and I thought
subscribers to the reflector might be interested in his
observations. So I asked Vaino permission to distribute our
communications via the reflector and he kindly agreed.
I compiled it into a single message.
 
Vaino's remarks in red, mine in blue.
 
We have been measuring a number of LF/MF/HF stations
with calibrated measuring system using a R&S ESH3
for more than 10 years.
 
Attached please find the monthly graphs for stations
DCF77 and DCF39, with average hourly 50% values.
 
The system noise threshold level (with Bw = 200 Hz)
checked during DCF39 QRT hours seems to be
7 dBuV/m (equivalent rx input level = -5dBuV).
 
There have been no breaks in DCF77 transmission.
 
In June the daytime values have been stabilized to
show a rough summer time ground wave F-s.
 
The radiated power of DCF77 is about 25 kW, so the
radiated power of DCF39 probably is less than 25 kW.
 
Distances: to DCF77 = 1545 km, to DCF39 = 1224 km
Our attempts to calculate ERP even for e.g. nearby
Decca station (d=12 km) have not been succesful
(after more than 10 yrs of continuous measurements).
ERP's have been checked by overflight measurements,
we use a Piper Arrow for such flight measurements
and specially tailored sofware for calculations.
 

Dear Vaino,   Thank you very much for your  e-mails.   I tried
to read the attachments but the computer  did not yet succeed
in opening them. But that is entirely my fault. I only recently acquired Windows
98 after several years operating under MS-DOS only. I still have to
learn a lot about doing things  under Windows. But I am lucky in having
several amateur friends  around that are willing and able to help me out. 
So don't worry.
I certainly am going to read the  attachments after enlisting
the help from one of those friends. Interesting to learn that finding ERP
from field strength measurements even over short distances does not
work. Does that imply the CCIR graphs are no  good?
 

Allright Dick,  surely would appreciate your comments
about our experiences on the field of measuring LF/MF
field strengths over various distances.
Please let me know if you wish me to resend attachments.
I have been using Win98 since February, Win95 before that.
 
Before I retired I was a member of CCIR Study Group 6
(Ionospheric Propagation) but supposedly have been spending
more time on monitoring and measuring VLF/LF/MF stations.
CCIR Ground propagation curves are the best available and
they give good idea how the different soils can behave.
Main problem is that they don't work in everyday practice
while one tries to calculate EMRP from point measurements.
 
DGPS advisor has been prof David Last (G3???) at the
University of Wales. They have their own ground conductivity
data bank for the whole world. We proved with our measurements
that their data bank values are not directly applicable for
our conditions. The situation elsewhere is not, of course the
same but we were first to start using DGPS on our car ferries.
I understand the soil in England is much more homogeneous, not
to talk about the Netherlands. We have our archipelagos etc.
The seasonal GW variation was already documented in 1940's
but some people on DGPS business have no knowledge of it.
The variation on high seas is much less than on ground paths.
 
I have about 500 flight hours on that specially equipped
Piper Arrow. In 1974-75 we produced a ground conductivity map
of Finland by measuring available and some temporary stations.
It has been a series of calculations, measurements,
comparisons.
First LF/MF campaign for EBU started in 1948 at Hki/Laajasalo
with RCA 308 and other rather difficult to use Fs equipment.
 
Latest assignment was to measure all Finnish and Swedish
DGPS beacons and to produce reports for Maritime Authorities.
So we still have 30 LF/MF/HF frequencies being measured 24h
a day with R&S ESH3 and active CCIR type 1 m monopole.
I surely wish to contribute for this 135 kHz business before
these ESH3 measurements will be stopped at the end of 1999.
1989-1998 measurement data have been saved to a CD Rom
and I have been hoping that some young student will help me.
Contrary to most DGPS people we have no commercial interest.
We took it as another interesting and rewarding hobby. Hi
 
I am grateful for your quick reply and useful comments.
No, there is no need to send the attachments anew. I am sure
that my good friend PA0GJH can help me out.
I think most LF-amateurs will be most interested in your
comments. You must be one of the few having real experience over many years with
respect to field strength measurements.
I therefore ask whether you would mind me putting some of
your e-mails to me on the reflecor of the RSGB-LF-Group?
 
Sure Dick, use of any information would be just fine.
I hate to sound 'professional' after all,
it's supposed to be fun for most hams..?
 
I send monthly contribution to Martin Harrison, G3USF
for 'The Six and Ten Report', for observed Au and Es.
This contribution will continue in the present form
until the end of 1999, after that Sodankyla VHF
measurements will be ended, which is unfortunate.
Especially Band I observations have been useful.
 
Jokela (60N34 25E00) VHF/UHF measurements will continue
and we'll see what will happen to ESH3 measurements.
 
By the way, meanwhile I made graphics of 138.83 & 77.50
for the last half of 1998. They look amazingly alike with
1999 graphs. So, hope we can put the graphics to some
Web site, perhaps Steve, G0AEV can put them to PSC site.
 
PS  I'll send you 1998 pictures zipped for comparison
 

With the help of PA0GJH  as a test one of the graphs in your
attachment appeared on my monitor in beautiful colours.
But this at the same time brings up a question: what do the
different colours mean?
And what is the quantity along the vertical axis? (db)microvolts I presume?
Thank you for your permission to put some of the info in your
emals on the reflector!
 

Glad to hear you are getting along with Win98.
Windows in general can be called a two-edged sword.
My Windows generally collapses at least once every day.
Also glad about your efforts to explain people how to
construct a simple but useful instrument to measure Fs.
I know we have had a luxury of using calibrated Fs
equipment ever since 1948, first RCA then R&S HFH/ESH.
I have been producing most graphics with Lotus Freelance
and the present version is Freelance 97 edition.
For some special formats the earlier version is better.
Windows beats DOS in some graphics work, but DOS is fb.
Freelance automatically produces different colors for
every day of a month and legend shows the color vs day.
In general this kind of picture shows a general daily
variation of hourly Fs during a calendar month.
Of course, the fine structure, eg 'morning effect'
don't clearly show like they are seen in a pen recorder.
It has been an EBU practice to use dB(uV) for eg input
voltage and dB(uV/m) for Fs, since the 1950's.
I zipped the available 1998 graphs for 138.83 & 77.50.
Some big Fs excursions must be due to change in radiated
radiated power. In 1998 the noise threshold level for
138.83 with 200 Hz Bandwidth is 5 dB(uV/m)-> (-7 dB(uV).
There are some qrt periods on 138.83 but never with 77.50.
 
 
Your last message for the group was just excellent!
Here is a special introductory version of January 1999
picture for 138.83 kHz, all values in calibrated dB(uV/m).
There seem to be a limit of 30 days per month in Freelance.
Anyway it sort of gives some idea of day-to-day variation.
Instead of Excel form I can send numerical tables in ASCII
form prepared by Windows Notepad (which I use almost daily).
So, attached also PORKKALA 285 kHz results (invaluable!).
 
Vaino's last comment relates to my e-mail via the reflector of 17-17-99 (ERP and all that jazz)
 
I did not include the attachments to Vaino's e-mails because the reflector won't accept them.
 
They show among others graphs of the field strength over 24 hrs for every day of  months in 1998 and 1999 as recorded on DCF39 and DCF77.
 
As an example the field strength of DCF39 at 1200 hrs varied in June 1999 between 37 and 41 dB(microvolt)/m. But in January of this year between 28 and 47 dB(microvolt)/m!
 
As stated earlier I will be happy to forward Vaino's original e-mail messages, including the attachments, to anyone interested by direct e-mail.
 
Vaino mentioned DGPS. This stands for Differential GPS. I have heard that the corrections to be applied to the GPS data in order to become a more accurate fix are transmitted via existing MF or LF beacons. Perhaps Vaino can tell via a message on the reflector if what I have heard is correct or not.
 
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
JO22GD
D.W. Rollema
V.d. Marckstraat 5
2352 RA Leiderdorp
The Netherlands
Tel. +31 71 589 27 34
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13713 invoked from network); 21 Jul 1999 17:54:48 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Jul 1999 17:54:48 +0100 Received: (qmail 20451 invoked from network); 21 Jul 1999 16:57:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jul 1999 16:57:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116zTR-0002jl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 17:44:05 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from dh-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.131] helo=hpdmgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 116zTQ-0002jc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 17:44:04 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.5) id MAA26343 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 12:43:30 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 12:42:32 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Re: A help with rx sensitivity ?? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199907211243_MC2-7DC9-A706@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Dick, please send me the pictures and the attached information on tre reception of DCF39 by Vaino. I would be pleased to put it on my homepage (I still got a couple of Megabyte free ...). It would fit on my "Beacon"-page. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) P.S.: I am probably the closest amateur-LF station to DCF39, so my measurment is not relevant. I receive it here constantly -33 dBm(75) with my new "Umbrella-Type Antenna", about 120 km away from the transmitter site. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1523 invoked from network); 21 Jul 1999 21:18:18 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Jul 1999 21:18:18 +0100 Received: (qmail 27497 invoked from network); 21 Jul 1999 20:20:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jul 1999 20:20:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1172dO-0004Cg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:06:34 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1172dN-0004Cb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:06:34 +0100 Received: from [62.172.218.149] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 1172dJ-0005uU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:06:30 +0100 Message-ID: <003b01bed3b4$4963bdc0$95daac3e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: DCF39 and receiver sensitivity Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:02:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Thanks for the comments on my suggestion. I think there is a slight misunderstanding, due to Dick's fine work on absolute field strength measurement. I was not suggesting that we could get any measurement of DCF39 field strength by this means. I was suggesting that we could set up a comparison of receiver sensitivities, using DCF39 as a reasonably constant source (for details of how constant see Dick's latest posting), that is available to everyone in Europe whatever their receiver set-up is. What I was aiming at was avoiding people like Alain listening on 136 hearing nothing and assuming there is no activity, when in fact it is their receiver/aerial capability which is their problem. I don't expect it to be quite as much use to the experienced operators who have their regular contacts to provide their data. Also the interest initially is not in 3-4dB changes more probably 20-30dB (I suspect that is my deficit at the moment) I take Wolf's point that the aerial could be improved, as his was, and the DCF39 signal reduced. I wonder whether this might be less of a problem at greater distances from the transmitter. Wolf is so close he can probably hear the operator breathing Hi. I look forward to seeing the 'professional' measurements posted to a web site soon? (please!) 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3560 invoked from network); 21 Jul 1999 21:28:32 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Jul 1999 21:28:32 +0100 Received: (qmail 28065 invoked from network); 21 Jul 1999 20:30:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jul 1999 20:30:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1172pL-0004Ik-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:18:55 +0100 Received: from mb06.swip.net ([193.12.122.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1172pK-0004If-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:18:54 +0100 Received: from s-257519 (dialup56-2-47.swipnet.se [130.244.56.111]) by mb06.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA25101 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 22:18:49 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000701bed3b6$43366720$6f38f482@s-257519> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Pictures of LF ATU in Karlsborg Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 22:18:56 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Finbar, please have a look at my QRP ATU: http://home4.swipnet.se/~w-41522/lfpics/lfpics.html Hihi... 73 de Johan, SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28617 invoked from network); 21 Jul 1999 23:17:44 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Jul 1999 23:17:44 +0100 Received: (qmail 13709 invoked from network); 21 Jul 1999 22:19:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jul 1999 22:19:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1174Xs-00056a-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:09:00 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ins20.netins.net ([167.142.225.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1174Xn-00056U-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:08:55 +0100 Received: from netins.net (desm-26-23.dialup.netins.net [167.142.22.152]) by ins20.netins.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA07816 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 17:08:49 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3796610F.8B5D3266@netins.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 17:08:47 -0700 From: "Doc Gruis" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win95; U; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Pictures of LF ATU in Karlsborg References: <000701bed3b6$43366720$6f38f482@s-257519> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello from Iowa in the U.S. (EN31dx) Two observations: 1. I am very concerned by the lack of apparent cooling whether by air-conditioning or at least by a fan when this ATU is used at QRP levels! ;-) Hi! Hi! 2. Thank you very much for pointing out your page! It is excellent and I have book marked it. 73, Doc, K0HTF and longwave "D" _____________________________________________________________________________________ Johan Bodin wrote: > > Finbar, please have a look at my QRP ATU: > > http://home4.swipnet.se/~w-41522/lfpics/lfpics.html > > Hihi... > > 73 de Johan, SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28352 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 02:00:44 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 02:00:44 +0100 Received: (qmail 12113 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 01:02:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 01:02:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1176w9-0006M9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 01:42:13 +0100 Received: from brockman.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.30]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1176w6-0006Lx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 01:42:11 +0100 Received: from p140.lifford1.tinet.ie ([159.134.235.140] helo=beachwood.tinet.ie) by brockman.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 1176vx-0006cr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 01:42:02 +0100 Message-ID: <007801bed3db$6b861340$8ceb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: re: More Amps Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 01:21:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
HI John /G4GVC.
                          Many thanks for the fine LF qso on Saturday last, my first in weeks. Remember I mentioned that my RF amps were way down on normal at  2.2 amps, despite tuning for absolute max. My usual is 3.4 amps with the Mosfet rig.
Deceided today, Wednesday, to have a go at trying to  re-arrange the antenna to avoid the ever growing trees in the garden, this did entail adding about  15 metres of wire to the antenna to get it out and around the trees. I was surprised and delighted to find that my work was well worth it. Now I'm getting  3.3 amps, no problem. Your experiences regarding trees and their effect on
LF antennas gave me the spurt to adjust my antenna. I did mention that my antenna current has been gradually going down over the last few months. Perhaps in hindsight, this has been due to the  ever spreading branches, leaves  etc from the many trees on our property, some of which are less than half a metre from the antenna downlead.  My antenna wire also goes across two neighbours gardens and their trees are ever reaching higher and closer to the horizontal part of the antenna.
I heard  DF2PY twice today, quite readable despite the noise on the band.  I called him last weekend too but no response.
Very best regards
Finbar  EI0CF
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28354 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 02:00:45 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 02:00:45 +0100 Received: (qmail 12118 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 01:03:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 01:03:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1176w8-0006M7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 01:42:12 +0100 Received: from brockman.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.30]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1176w7-0006Ly-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 01:42:11 +0100 Received: from p140.lifford1.tinet.ie ([159.134.235.140] helo=beachwood.tinet.ie) by brockman.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 1176vz-0006cr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 01:42:04 +0100 Message-ID: <007901bed3db$6ccc9d00$8ceb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: ATU info tks Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 01:23:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Johan, Thanks for the info re the qrp atu. I do hope we can have an SM/EI qso soon. I have a better receiver now, so I hope that helps next Winter. Best regards Finbar EI0CF -----Original Message----- From: Johan Bodin To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 21 July 1999 21:36 Subject: LF: Pictures of LF ATU in Karlsborg Finbar, please have a look at my QRP ATU: http://home4.swipnet.se/~w-41522/lfpics/lfpics.html Hihi... 73 de Johan, SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3944 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 02:43:10 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 02:43:10 +0100 Received: (qmail 18419 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 01:45:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 01:45:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1177jL-0006iN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 02:33:03 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ins20.netins.net ([167.142.225.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1177jK-0006iI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 02:33:02 +0100 Received: from netins.net (desm-26-23.dialup.netins.net [167.142.22.152]) by ins20.netins.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA14398 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 20:32:59 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <379690E9.EBAA9D13@netins.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 20:32:57 -0700 From: "Doc Gruis" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win95; U; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: De-tuned antenna Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: I really don't know if there is the practice in Europe of directional AM broadcast stations, i.e., 540 to 1600 (or 1700) KHz., but it sure is practiced here in the U.S. The mention was made of the foliage growth close to the feed line, etc. Here are a couple of many instances of natures messing up an antenna system. Well, maybe three...) 1. One station I worked at was on 1390 KHz. and had a four tower array and the tower field was surrounded by corn fields and even though they were over a hundred feet away at the closest point, the radiation pattern of the station was altered and so was the impedance's, tuning, phase, etc., of the towers. 2. I worked at another 4 tower station on 1360 and for no apparent reason the whole array would go in and out of tune and specifications. Then one evening, I spotted a field mouse in the tuning house and found nests built inside the lighting isolation transformers or coils, whichever they happened to have. The little mice must have thought it very warm due to R-F heating. 3. And it seems like last winter someone on this list was talking about ice formation and that is enough said. SO if the tuning is that sensitive at a frequency about ten times your 136 KHz. band, it must be devastating at the long waves! I certainly enjoy the postings to this list. Thank you very much! AND your home pages are very good indeed. I have a 1 watt beacon operating on 175 KHz. and will be putting up a new antenna this autumn. My efforts must be modest since our lot is a rather conventional 50 X 150'. 73! Doc, K0HTF and long wave "D" From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26972 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 06:02:40 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 06:02:40 +0100 Received: (qmail 11619 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 05:04:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 05:04:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117Ati-000887-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 05:55:58 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ah-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.157] helo=hpamgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117Ath-000882-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 05:55:57 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaac.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.5) id AAA07056 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 00:55:31 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 00:54:23 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: dBm to dB, uV and S-units To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199907220055_MC2-7DE9-228F@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello Lowfers, some of us use selective level meters to measure the signal strength, some have receivers with S-Units where S9 equals 50 uV, others are calibrated to 100 uV (and a lot of the S-meters are not calibrated at all). To ge able to get some comparable results, I have posted a table on my homepage that allows direct conversion between those units. It can either be reached directly through http://home.t-online.de/home/dk8kw/dbm.htm or through my main index-page http://www.dk8kw.home.pages.de So the -33 dB (where 0 dB equals 0.775 Volt across 75 Ohms) at that I can receive DCF39 equals to approximately S9 + 44 dB. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28587 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 06:17:07 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 06:17:07 +0100 Received: (qmail 13303 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 05:19:23 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 05:19:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117B81-0008EV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 06:10:45 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226] helo=gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117B80-0008EQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 06:10:44 +0100 Received: by gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id HAA25210; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 07:11:52 +0200 (MET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Message-ID: From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" To: "'rsgb_lf_group'" Subject: LF: Report 21.July Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 07:10:41 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hallo Group, heard on 21. July at 1930 utc dl3fdo (rst 319) calling cq. Called him several times but no answer. At abt 2015 heared ik5zpv (319) . Tried him to, but nil. Seems there is more activity during the week. I try to listen in the evening 18 to 20 utc every fist 15 minutes of the hour. 73 Wolf (dl1san) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 855 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 06:36:12 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 06:36:12 +0100 Received: (qmail 15637 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 05:38:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 05:38:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117BQK-0008N7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 06:29:40 +0100 Received: from mailout08.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117BQJ-0008N2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 06:29:39 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fwd14.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.174]) by mailout08.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 117BQF-0006l0-00; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 07:29:35 +0200 Received: (320057114934-0001(btxid)@[62.158.46.83]) by fwd14.btx.dtag.de id ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 07:29:34 +0200 Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 07:29:34 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: DK7UY@geocities.com References: <003b01bed3b4$4963bdc0$95daac3e@default> Subject: Re: LF: DCF39 and receiver sensitivity X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 320057114934-0001@t-online.de From: "DF2PY" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi Lowfers ! Concerning DCF 39, Geri wrote he has it with s9 plus 44 db ,at my front end it measures s 9 plus 35 db,meter calibrated at 50 microvolts for s9. I think this might be very close,as Geri is closer to that particular one. Last days i used my vacation to roll out more chicken wire and improved the crystal filter by 3 dbs less insertion loss.I was looking for Petr,but so far nil on fast-cw.With great interest i follow the efforts with rx-sensitivity and selectivity etc. as that seems to be a problem in my HF-battered location ( at least LF-wise ) .Nice to hear that Finbar could copy me-hopefully a qso may follow soon! good dx and see u on LF ! 73 de df2py From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20592 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 08:58:39 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 08:58:39 +0100 Received: (qmail 2864 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 08:00:55 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 08:00:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117DdG-0000qK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:51:10 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117DdF-0000qF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:51:09 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA10127 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:56:56 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990722095235.2effd24a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:52:35 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: A help with rx sensitivity ?? In-reply-to: <000101bed305$4e4e3cc0$6eeeabc3@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: At 00:09 21/07/99 +0100, you wrote: >Mike G3XDV, mentioned using DCF39 as a standard signal for comparing aerial >performance, in a previous exchange which culminated in the fascinating >article and results reported by Dick PA0SE. This has just surfaced again for >me as I have had another packet contact with F5MLP. As you may remember he >has erected a 300m wire in anticipation of getting a permit for 136. He is >disappointed in its performance, and has sent a bull round the packet >network asking for other stations reading of the strength of DCF39. >... I think the main (and maybe only reason) to use long and low horizontal wires on 136kHz is an attempt to produce a strong skywave signal for 'DX'. So it would be worth not only to compare the perforance of these antennas (versus the more classic short verticals) on a transmitter only 500 ... 800km away but also a 'real DX' in the 2000 ... 3000km range. Maybe the 'Greek' at the bottom of the band can be used for that ? 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2190 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 09:47:15 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 09:47:15 +0100 Received: (qmail 13169 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 08:49:32 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 08:49:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117EJX-00019F-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:34:51 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117EJW-000199-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:34:50 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA13679 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:40:36 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990722103616.080feaf4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:36:16 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: DL3FDO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Last night (21-07) DL3FDO I heard DL3FDO calling CQ with a good 559 signal, but he didn't seem to hear my response. Also DJ5BV heard him (549) but also couldn't raise his attention. With G3BDQ he was still 329. Does anyone has more info on this station (location, equipement) ? 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8242 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 10:08:30 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 10:08:30 +0100 Received: (qmail 18553 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 09:10:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 09:10:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117Egf-0001Lm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:58:45 +0100 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117Ege-0001Lh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:58:44 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 117Eff-0003uI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:57:43 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:40:17 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:42:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: De-tuned antenna In-reply-to: <379690E9.EBAA9D13@netins.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: K0HTF wrote: > I have a 1 watt beacon operating on 175 KHz. and will be putting up > a new antenna this autumn. My efforts must be modest since our lot is a > rather conventional 50 X 150'. This is not very modest by UK standards. My garden is 35 x 90' and I can still put up a useful antenna for 136kHz. It requires some ingenuity - I am using a loading coil at the top of the mast, for instance - but I am not the only G to put out an LF signal from a small garden. The real secret is height - if you get to 50 feet plus it will work well. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23818 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 11:17:14 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 11:17:14 +0100 Received: (qmail 2577 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 10:19:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 10:19:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117FcK-0001kW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:58:20 +0100 Received: from smtp.mail.big-orange.net ([143.179.236.31] helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117FcI-0001kQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:58:19 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.151.109]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA66B9 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:58:11 +0200 Message-ID: <02f801bed429$5f812780$6097b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Re: Re: A help with rx sensitivity ?? Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:02:14 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: >From PA0SE Geri, DK8KW, wrote: I am probably the closest amateur-LF station to DCF39, so my measurment is not relevant. I receive it here constantly -33 dBm(75) with my new "Umbrella-Type Antenna", about 120 km away from the transmitter site. Dear Geri, I am a bit amazed that the signal is "only" -33 dBm because at my QTH the signal has exactly the same strength but I am 500 km from DCF39! I use a Wandell & Goltermann PSM-5 Pegelmessplatz. According to CCIR graphs for "Land" (sigma = 30 mS/m, epsilon = 40) the signal at your place should be some 18 dB stronger than with me. Maybe the ground between DCF39 and my QTH is better, propagation wise speaking, than between DCF39 and your QTH. I read your are using a new antenna. Did you also pay attention to the earthing system? It is in this part of the system that invariably the greatest losses occur. The situation at my place seems to be not too bad, going by the reports I receive. I earthed the rig to the central heating system and that is connected via the gaspipe to real ground. Total resistance is about 60 ohm, of which some 48 ohm is loss in the earthing system and 12 ohm in the loading coil (L = 3,3 microhenry). I had a look at your website with the conversion table for dBm, dB and S-points. Very useful indeed! Hope we can have a QSO in the near future. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6965 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 12:19:51 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 12:19:51 +0100 Received: (qmail 16201 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 11:22:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 11:22:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117Gem-0002HZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:04:56 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mailout06.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.154]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117Gel-0002HU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:04:55 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fwd07.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.167]) by mailout06.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 117Gej-000635-00; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:04:53 +0200 Received: (087321565-0001(btxid)@[193.159.108.36]) by fwd07.btx.dtag.de id ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:04:42 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:04:42 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.19990722103616.080feaf4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: Re: LF: DL3FDO X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-online.de From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hallo all, according to the (now abandoned) system of forming german radio amateur call signs the first letter F in the suffix indicates that DL3FDO must be located in the Frankfurt/Main area. May be he is suffering from the same high LF noise level of that area which has already been reported by DJ8WL and DF2PY. I have also heard DL3FDO twice in QTH JN68GN, 120 km ENE of Munich, but I also could not raise him, sri. 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB Rik Strobbe schrieb: > Last night (21-07) DL3FDO I heard DL3FDO calling CQ with a good 559 signal, > but he didn't seem to hear my response. Also DJ5BV heard him (549) but also > couldn't raise his attention. With G3BDQ he was still 329. > Does anyone has more info on this station (location, equipement) ? > > 73, Rik > > > Rik Strobbe ON7YD > rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be > Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6974 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 12:19:54 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 12:19:54 +0100 Received: (qmail 16218 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 11:22:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 11:22:12 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117Gf6-0002Hh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:05:16 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from dh-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.131] helo=hpdmgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117Gf5-0002Hb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:05:15 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.5) id HAA09511 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 07:05:14 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 07:04:51 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Re: Re: A help with rx sensitivity ?? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199907220705_MC2-7DE0-39E0@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Dick, PA0SE wrote: >I am a bit amazed that the signal is "only" -33 dBm because at my QTH the >signal has exactly the same strength but I am 500 km from DCF39! >I use a Wandell & Goltermann PSM-5 Pegelmessplatz. Hello Dick, well, preparing my db/dbm/uV/S-unit chart yesterday I thought about those units and I think that I have to correct my DCF39 report. The manual of my MV61 Pegelmesser says, the reading is in dB (not dBm), referring to a voltage of 0.775 V being 0 dB. That means, that, if I compare my -33 dB (0.775 V/ 75 Ohm) are -23 dBm(75), we already got 10 dB of the missing 18 dB. The rest could well be my higher total losses, that are currently in the range of 80 Ohms (I got them down from 100 Ohm with a buried 20m radial and a 2.4m long ground rod). Additionaly to that I have a 4m long ground rod plus the central heating and waterpipe system connected together, but there still is some room for more radials (and I still got plenty of wire!). I hope that I am right with my dB report, I got confused myself with all those different units (and being a poor petroleum and drilling engineer I have no professional link to our hobby ;-) Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27539 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 13:56:52 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 13:56:52 +0100 Received: (qmail 4495 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 12:59:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 12:59:10 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117IIE-00031z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:49:46 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.148] helo=spamgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117IID-00031u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:49:45 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.1) id IAA29931 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:49:43 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:47:51 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: DL3FDO To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199907220848_MC2-7DEA-6F29@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello Lowfers, the packet message below in German says basically: "I got recently QRV on 136.6 kHz quite often. QTH Schotten, Loc. JO40MN. Ant. 24 m vertical with top-load. Transmitter "The First" made by Ropex. The transmitter has a very good frequency stability, however, can only transmit on 136.6 kHz. I would be glad about any calls on that frequency. vy 73 de DL3FDO - Reiner -" So that probably should solve that mystery! Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------- VLF @DL de:DL3FDO 20.07.99 18:29 14 853 Bytes From: DL3FDO @ DB0SIF.#HES.DEU.EU (Reiner) To: VLF @ DL X-Info: Einspielung ohne Passwortschutz Bi n seit kurzer Zeit auf 136,6 KHz sehr haeufig QRV. QTH SCHOTTEN, Loc. JO40MN. Ant. 24 m vertical mit top load.Transmitter " The First" von der Firma Ropex.DAs Geraet hat eine sehr quarzstabile Freuenz, leider nur auf 136,6 KHZ. Wuerde mich ueber Anrufe auf dieser Frequenz freuen. vy 73 de DL3FDO - Reiner - * (VLF) DK8KW de DK0MAV> From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10450 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 15:00:16 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 15:00:16 +0100 Received: (qmail 21243 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 14:02:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 14:02:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117JFC-0003UG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 14:50:42 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ins20.netins.net ([167.142.225.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117JFA-0003UB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 14:50:41 +0100 Received: from netins.net (desm-25-075.dialup.netins.net [167.142.22.76]) by ins20.netins.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA23186 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:50:38 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37973DCE.90C9B505@netins.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:50:38 -0700 From: "Doc Gruis" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win95; U; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: De-tuned antenna References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Thank you. At the present all the U.S. allows is i watt input to a 50' antenna and that 50' includes loading coil, and transmission line, and such. I have been partial to some off center or center loading, but, as has been shown on this list, art and science are very close together. 73, Doc. __________________________________________________________________________________ Mike Dennison wrote: > > K0HTF wrote: > > I have a 1 watt beacon operating on 175 KHz. and will be putting up > > a new antenna this autumn. My efforts must be modest since our lot is a > > rather conventional 50 X 150'. > > This is not very modest by UK standards. My garden is 35 x 90' > and I can still put up a useful antenna for 136kHz. It requires some > ingenuity - I am using a loading coil at the top of the mast, for > instance - but I am not the only G to put out an LF signal from a > small garden. The real secret is height - if you get to 50 feet plus it > will work well. > > Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) > http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13389 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 15:50:10 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 15:50:10 +0100 Received: (qmail 1127 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 14:52:28 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 14:52:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117JzU-0003qQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:38:32 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117JzS-0003qI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:38:30 +0100 Received: from walter (userm166.uk.uudial.com [193.149.77.216]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id PAA10441; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:34:15 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: blanch@mailhost.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:32:52 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: OH2LX comments on measuring field strength Cc: "Koos Fockens, PA0KDF" , "Klaas Spaargaren, PA0KSB" , "Jaap Kroon, PA0IF" , "Hendrik de Waard, PA0ZX" In-reply-to: <000f01bed384$bbe45600$2a96b38f@w8k3f0> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: At 16:23 21/07/99 +0200, Dick Rollema wrote: ..............................................Vaino mentioned DGPS. This stands for Differential GPS. I have heard that the corrections to be applied to the GPS data in order to become a more accurate fix are transmitted via existing MF or LF beacons. Perhaps Vaino can tell via a message on the reflector if what I have heard is correct or not. Yes........nearly all the MF beacons you can hear between 285 ....315 kHz are now transmitting diff. Most 100 Bd ; some 200. Also, the Sylt Loran-C tx (12.5 Bd PPM) and a couple of LF stations atround 123 kHz. With a good GPS set you can get 1-2 metres. I've successfully tracked all of them up to 900 kms range in daylight; and as far as Cape Race NFLD, at night. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12410 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 19:47:55 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 19:47:55 +0100 Received: (qmail 19549 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 18:50:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 18:50:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117Nl9-0005af-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:39:59 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout10.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.158]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117Nl8-0005aY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:39:58 +0100 Received: from fwd05.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.165]) by mailout10.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 117Nl6-0006KT-00; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:39:56 +0200 Received: (320057114934-0001(btxid)@[62.158.47.52]) by fwd05.btx.dtag.de id ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:39:14 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:39:14 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: DL3FDO X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 320057114934-0001@t-online.de From: "DF2PY" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello Lowfers ! I worked DL3FDO two times so far.He is even closer to the Mainflingen transmitter site than i am, so i guess the intermod which is generated by the two simultaneously driven transmitters gives him quite a problem. Peter and i measured the IM products last year and found them to be the main problem at Peters RX. He indicated that he has no e-mail so far. 73 and mni dx de df2py From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5378 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 04:30:07 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 04:30:07 +0100 Received: (qmail 23260 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 03:32:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 03:32:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117VqY-0000xS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 04:18:06 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.148] helo=spamgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117VqX-0000xJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 04:18:05 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.1) id XAA05061 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:17:33 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:15:26 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: DL3FDO To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199907222315_MC2-7DFF-DFE0@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello Lowfers, I got a packet message back from Reiner, DL3FDO. He has very similar receiving problems as Wolf, DF2PY and surely needs to work on similar solutions to try to overcome these. With his 20m high antenna, he puts out a very good signal but so far only was able to work DF2PY and hear DJ5BV, his current noise level exceed S9+20dB! Reiner is not on the internet but you can reach him through the normal packet radio network right away. He asked me to thank you for your reception reports and pass my best 73 to you all. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6482 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 04:41:16 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 04:41:16 +0100 Received: (qmail 25419 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 03:43:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 03:43:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117W2N-00014v-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 04:30:19 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.148] helo=spamgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117W2M-00014q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 04:30:18 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.1) id XAA19124 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:30:13 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:29:36 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: DCF39 Observations by Vaino, OH2LX To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199907222330_MC2-7DFF-E0A4@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello Lowfers, those of you who follow the discussions on the reflector know that Vaino, OH2LX, has made some regular observations on the signal strength of DCF39 on 138.830 kHz. Dick, PA0SE was only able to post his e-mail discussions with Vaino to the reflector, but not the graphs. With the kind permission of Vaino, I have posted the first parts of those graphs on my longwave information homepage. They, as well as the interesting discusion between PA0SE and OH2LX can be either accessed directly at http://home.t-online.de/home/dk8kw/dcf39.htm or through my main index-page http://www.dk8kw.home.pages.de I will post the remaining graphs when I got them from Vaino. Stay tuned! Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) BTW: Vaino was asking for the exact coordinates of the transmitter DCF39 in Burg near Magdeburg. The only information I have is from Gamal Soegiono, who gave the QTH locator being latitude 52N55, longitude 10E18, resulting in the Maidenhead qth locator JO52XH. Gamal said, this is on 10 km correct. Does any one of you have the ability to verify those coordinates or to give some more accurate information? Additionally, does any one of you have contact to those people running that transmitting station (EFR in Berlin respectively Deutsche Telecom?) and can reveal details on their exact transmission power, antenna details and, if possible, their ERP? Thanks! From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22255 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 06:41:39 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 06:41:39 +0100 Received: (qmail 15065 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 05:44:01 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 05:44:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117Xqr-0001ri-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 06:26:33 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226] helo=gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117Xqq-0001rd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 06:26:32 +0100 Received: by gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id HAA10267; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 07:27:41 +0200 (MET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Message-ID: From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" To: "'rsgb_lf_group'" Subject: LF: 22. july Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 07:26:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hallo Group, This was the second evening I tried to hear OK1FIG. Did anyone hear something of his announced activity? Brought out a few CQ calls but no response. Heard DF2PY calling cq but the signal was abt. 15 dB lower than usual. Wolf, did you alter your antenna? Yesterday I installed abt. 20 radials (10-35m) to my antenna system. But there was no significant change of the antenna current. The current is abt .6 A with and without the redials. Can anyone explain this? 73 Wolf (DL1SAN) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22533 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 06:44:49 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 06:44:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 15576 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 05:47:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 05:47:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117Xvd-0001t1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 06:31:29 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.146] helo=spamgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117Xvc-0001sw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 06:31:28 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.1) id BAA13992 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 01:29:44 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 01:29:27 -0400 From: "Dave Sergeant" Subject: LF: S-meters and DCF39 To: "rsgb_lf_group" Message-ID: <199907230129_MC2-7DFE-5787@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: >From Dave G3YMC I have calibrated my receive set up against a quality signal generator, calibrated in dBm into 50 ohms. I won't bore you with the actual figures, but they show that the use of S meter figures is totally meaningless. The s-meter for my FT101ZD is designed to measure the signal at its own receiver input - this is meaningless when there is a receive converter at the front end with its own gain, which in my case is appreciable. I also do not know the input impedance of my receiver - the figures are for a nominal 50ohms but would be double for an infinite input impedance. The important figures are: DCF39 (875km) 14uV into 50 ohms (-94dBm) Noise level (typical) 0.1uV into 50 ohms (-126dBm) S9 0.45uV (burst of laughter) 1 S point is typically around 2dB, although surprisingly S9 to S9+10 measures as 10dB. point taken, S meters are meaningless. Unlike some I get very little variation in the strength of DCF39 - it is always S9+18 on my meter with a variation of no more than 1dB or so. I never ever see the 20 to 30 dB variations some mention. Reception is normally on my transmit loop. Thanks to Geri DK8KW for his dB conversion chart. However I would request that he changes the colours on his page. White text on a black background looks fine on a monitor, but most of us would like to print it out. I had to edit the page before printing so that I could see the white ink on my white paper.... 73s Dave G3YMC sergeantd@compuserve.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26421 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 09:28:18 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 09:28:18 +0100 Received: (qmail 24335 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 08:30:39 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 08:30:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117aYf-00034i-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:19:57 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117aYe-00034d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:19:56 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA17310 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:25:42 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990723102121.2f1f9324@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:21:21 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: 22. july In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: At 07:26 23/07/99 +0200, DL1SAN wrote: >Yesterday I installed abt. 20 radials (10-35m) to my antenna system. But >there was no significant change of the antenna current. The current is abt >.6 A with and without the redials. Can anyone explain this? I encountered a similar problem when starting on 136kHz (april 1998). Maybe my 'story' will be of some help to others. Whith my first antenna (a 10m high 'umbrella-antenna') and 6 radials each 20 to 30 meter long (iolated, on the ground) I got a 'groundloss' of about 250 Ohms. Adding an 1 meter eathstake at the antenna feedingpoint reduced the loss to 220 Ohms. First I though that the soil was very bad (for LF) but when I lowered my antenna from 10 to 5 meter the losses reduced from 220 to 150 Ohm, with a 2 meter high antenna even to 110 Ohm. So I came to the conclusion that the main loss was not in the ground but in the many trees that were surrounding the antenna. For your information, 3 sides of the 'lot' my house is on are surrounded by forrest. I once read that you should avoid to have any 'greenery' in a zone around the antenna that is equal to the height of the antenna, in my case I had about 35 trees (up to 20 meter high) in this zone. As a next step I decided to re-arrange the complete antenna and to try to get it as far as possible from the trees. I constructed a 13 meter high inverted-L with a 26 meter long topsection, consisting of 4 parallel wires each sparated 80cm. The number of threes in the 'critical zone' was reduced to about 20, the loss was now 150 Ohm (instead of 220 Ohm). Next I replaced the existing 'ground-system' (1 earthstake of 1 meter and the 6 isolated radials) by 6 earthstakes of each 2.5 meter (and all separated about 10 to 15 meter) and a radial system that interconnects all this stakes (total 100 meter of wire). The radials are blank galvanized iron (2mm) and dug about 15cm deep in the soil. The earthstakes are also galvanized iron (2cm tubes). The loss was now reduced to about 120 Ohm. During winter I added several very long radials (up to 50 meter) but no further decrease of the loss was found. When I had to remove the extra radials in spring (mowing !) also no increase of loss was found, so this extra radials seemed to be useless. So I am afraid that the main part of my 120 Ohm loss in not in the earth but in the trees and that I will have to live with it. Some final remarks : 1. Lowering the antenna decreased the loss, but decreased the radiation resistance even more, so dispite higher antennacurrent I had lower ERP. 2. Do not try to get a 2.5 meter long and 2 cm wide iron tube into the earth with a hammer, it will bend or break. Just connect the upper end of the tube to the watersupply (using the garden hose) and you can gently push the tube into the ground with one hand. But stop the waterflow when the end of the tube is still about 50cm above ground and wait about 10 minutes (it will sink some 10 to 30 cm deeper) and then sink it to its final position with very low waterpressure. If you stop the waterflow too late the tubemight dissapear completely into the earth. Also the soils has to 'fixate' the tube (can take days to some weeks), during the time the 'groundconnection' will further improve. 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28170 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 09:38:42 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 09:38:42 +0100 Received: (qmail 28171 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 08:41:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 08:41:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117ajB-00039v-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:30:49 +0100 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117ajA-00039q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:30:48 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 117aiA-0005gw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:29:47 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:27:30 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:29:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: 22. july In-reply-to: X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: DL1SAN wrote: > > Yesterday I installed abt. 20 radials (10-35m) to my antenna system. But > there was no significant change of the antenna current. The current is abt > .6 A with and without the redials. Can anyone explain this? > It is possible you have altered the impedance of your system and need to re-match it to the Tx. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10852 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 10:30:28 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 10:30:28 +0100 Received: (qmail 16111 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 09:32:50 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 09:32:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117bVs-0003X9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:21:08 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226] helo=gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117bVr-0003X4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:21:07 +0100 Received: by gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id LAA19429; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:22:15 +0200 (MET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Message-ID: From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: AW: LF: 22. july Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:21:05 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: > ---------- > Von: Mike Dennison[SMTP:mike.dennison@rsgb.org.uk] > Antwort an: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Gesendet: Freitag, 23. Juli 1999 10:29 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: Re: LF: 22. july > > DL1SAN wrote: > > > > Yesterday I installed abt. 20 radials (10-35m) to my antenna system. But > > there was no significant change of the antenna current. The current is > abt > > .6 A with and without the redials. Can anyone explain this? > > > > It is possible you have altered the impedance of your system and > need to re-match it to the Tx. > > The radials did not change the tuning significantly. For a better understanding i try to describe my antenna and tuning circuit. Form the wall feedthroug a 8m long wire ( 2 in parallel 30 cm apart) is fed to a mounting point of the chimney which is abt 9 m over ground. There an inductor with abt 1mH is installed. From the inductor three wires abt 10m long are tensed in 3 different directions. the ant is tuned with a fixed inductor, abt 2 mH, and a variometer for fine tuning. For exact tuning the antenna current and voltage is measured. Also the phase angle of current and voltage is monitored to find the "real" tuning point. With the same tool foreward-, back power and the phase can be measured. Former I did these measurements with an oscilloscope and a current coupler . Last month i built a power-amp,volt meter with phase measurement capability. This is smaller than a oscilloscope and more useful for portable operation. I hope this will answer a few open questions. 73 de Wolf (DL1SAN) > Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) > http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 143 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 11:30:25 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 11:30:25 +0100 Received: (qmail 5125 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 10:32:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 10:32:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117cSz-0003zv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:22:13 +0100 Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117cSy-0003zq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:22:12 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:21:32 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de ([194.94.166.130]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA08472 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:21:41 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <379841BD.282B9AE4@nephro.uni-kiel.de> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:19:41 +0200 From: "P. W. Schnoor" Organization: Clinic of Nephrology, University of Kiel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586) X-Accept-Language: de, en To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 22. july References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: "Koenig, Wolfgang" wrote: > Yesterday I installed abt. 20 radials (10-35m) to my antenna system. But > there was no significant change of the antenna current. The current is abt > .6 A with and without the redials. Can anyone explain this? Made some comparisions between different ground planes this spring: Isolated radials laying on ground or buried are bad, the same as chicken wire meshes laying on the ground. I got the best results from buried non-insulated ground wires with stokes at far ends. 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11675 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 12:20:22 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 12:20:22 +0100 Received: (qmail 20690 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 11:22:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 11:22:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117dEc-0004Ie-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:11:26 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ah-img-2.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.153] helo=hpamgaab.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117dEa-0004IZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:11:25 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaab.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.5) id HAA11868 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 07:11:23 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 07:09:53 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Re: Radials and Trees To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199907230710_MC2-7E0D-51E4@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Peter, DF3LP wrote: >I got the best results from buried non-insulated ground wires with stokes at far ends.< I have followed Peter's advise recently and used a 2.4m ground-rod, washed down in the previously described way wish a water-hose and high pressure (reminds me of my QRL, I am working as a drilling engineer in the petroleum industry, we do the same thing on a bigger scale, can you imagine: a 20.000 ft deep ground rod ...). I just buried the radial (20m of highly corrosion resistant wire, also from the petroleum industry, they use it to lower measurement instruments into the borehole) 5 to 10 cm but improved my losses from 100 Ohm down to about 80 Ohms. There is plenty of wire left (and some more ground rods) so I hope to further reduce my losses. But I had another observation regarding leaves: after being dry for weeks, we suddenly had rain yesterday. My losses suddenly rose dramatically, until I removed one of the top-loads of my umbrella-antenna from the trees. Now I am back to my previous antenna current again. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1414 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 13:57:44 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 13:57:44 +0100 Received: (qmail 13347 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 13:00:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 13:00:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117ehL-00051s-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:45:11 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ah-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.154] helo=hpamgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117ehJ-00051k-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:45:10 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.5) id IAB15796 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:45:02 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:42:59 -0400 From: "Dave Sergeant" Subject: LF: S-meters and DCF39 - correction To: "rsgb_lf_group" Message-ID: <199907230843_MC2-7E05-2CA7@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Below is a corrected version of the mail I sent earlier. My signal generator is calibrated in dB of attenuation relative to +13dBm, and I had incorrectly converted my figures into dBm. The new figures are more reasonable, and show how easy it is to get confused when dealing with dBm (even from someone who should know better!). The new figures are rather more realistic, but still indicate that we should not rely on S-meters for quantitative measurements. *************************************************************************** **** I have calibrated my receive set up against a quality signal generator, calibrated in dBm into 50 ohms. I won't bore you with the actual figures, but they show that the use of S meter figures is totally meaningless. The s-meter for my FT101ZD is designed to measure the signal at its own receiver input - this is meaningless when there is a receive converter at the front end with its own gain, which in my case is appreciable. I also do not know the input impedance of my receiver - the figures are for a nominal 50ohms but would be double for an infinite input impedance. The important figures are: DCF39 (875km) 45uV into 50 ohms (-74dBm) Noise level (typical) 1.2uV into 50 ohms (-105dBm) S9 4.5uV 1 S point is typically around 2dB, although surprisingly S9 to S9+10 measures as 10dB. point taken, S meters are meaningless. Unlike some I get very little variation in the strength of DCF39 - it is always S9+18 on my meter with a variation of no more than 1dB or so. I never ever see the 20 to 30 dB variations some mention. Reception is normally on my transmit loop. Thanks to Geri DK8KW for his dB conversion chart. However I would request that he changes the colours on his page. White text on a black background looks fine on a monitor, but most of us would like to print it out. I had to edit the page before printing so that I could see the white ink on my white paper.... 73s Dave G3YMC sergeantd@compuserve.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15106 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 14:57:44 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 14:57:44 +0100 Received: (qmail 27249 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 14:00:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 14:00:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117fbx-0005Pd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:43:41 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ([195.186.1.75]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117fbw-0005PY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:43:40 +0100 Received: from phonakcom.ch ([195.186.111.126]) by bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ( with ESMTP id AAA3CF8 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:43:34 +0200 Message-ID: <379874EC.5A5BEB21@phonakcom.ch> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:58:04 +0200 From: "Toni Baertschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Radials and Trees References: <199907230710_MC2-7E0D-51E4@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: >From HB9ASB, JN36pt Wish I could "wash" my ground rods down, as you do it in the flat land: after 30-50cm I'm on solid rock! And unfortunately I'm not a drilling Engineer. My antenna is also surrounded by trees, but I'm not sure if they absorb that much (The Top Load is in the clear). But they change the resonance of my antenna. I have a shift of some kHz between summer and winter. By the way: I've recalibrated my S-Meter and I must admit that I've given completely wrong reports until now. The problem was my R&S generator. It's output level is correct on short wave but much to low on 136kHz and so far I never checked it. As we say in German: Wer misst, misst Mist! 73 de Toni From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18298 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 16:57:10 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 16:57:10 +0100 Received: (qmail 21485 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 15:59:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 15:59:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117hUc-0006Iz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:44:14 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mailout09.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.157]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117hUb-0006Iu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:44:13 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fwd07.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.167]) by mailout09.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 117hUY-0002Pd-00; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 17:44:10 +0200 Received: (087321565-0001(btxid)@[193.158.171.14]) by fwd07.btx.dtag.de id ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 17:43:58 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 17:43:58 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: 22. july, more radials but no increase in antenna current X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-online.de From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello all, several observations have been reported so far (including my own) that parallelling of different LF grounds do not always improve antenna current but even may reduce it, de facto increasing the ground resistance. In our LF Forum during the Ham Radio at Friedrichshafen I have also raised this point in my speech and have mentioned as a possible explanation, that LF grounds of any kind may not be regarded as pure real resistances, which could be paralleled without any problems. Perhaps they must be regarded as komplex resistances, combining real and reactive elements, be it inductive or capacitive. Such ground could be paralleled sucesfully only after the reactive elements have been tuned out. This hypothesis had been the outcome of a discussion on these observations with a swedish radio amateur (Bo Lindell, from Ericsson) which I have met at ETSI. Any further observations and results on this topic would be appreciated. Also nice to mention: When I raised this point on a local club evening meeting, a grey-haired OM gave me an old-fashioned foil dielectric variable capacitor of 12.000 (twelve thousand) pF! This was really a good help to investigate this problem. 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB Koenig, Wolfgang schrieb: > Hallo Group, > > Yesterday I installed abt. 20 radials (10-35m) to my antenna system. But > there was no significant change of the antenna current. The current is abt > .6 A with and without the redials. Can anyone explain this? > > 73 Wolf (DL1SAN) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5774 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 18:09:42 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 18:09:42 +0100 Received: (qmail 6654 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 17:12:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 17:12:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117igc-0006sc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:00:42 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mailout02.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.150]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117igb-0006sX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:00:41 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fwd07.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.167]) by mailout02.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 117igW-00014p-00; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 19:00:36 +0200 Received: (320057114934-0001(btxid)@[62.157.27.91]) by fwd07.btx.dtag.de id ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 19:00:27 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 19:00:27 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: DK7UY@geocities.com Subject: LF: Ground systems X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 320057114934-0001@t-online.de From: "DF2PY" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello Lowfers ! In one of the recent postings it was stated,that chicken wire on the ground makes no good RF-ground.Well what i got to say about it is not very much scientifically researched by myself,but i tried to do it experimentally with the probes that were available to me. I run a two element vertical array on 160m and finally came up with chicken wire as the best solution.I measured the current in the radials and did measurments in the "near far field",as well as signal readings about 100 wavelength away. attaching the chicken-wire was far superior to the single wire radials.As far as conductivity of my soil is concerned,i am on a waterfront-property and the level of groundwater is only 3 feet down,i cant ask for more with sweetwater.Of course it is hard to compare as the surface of both is hard to compare.But following the basic rules ,You ought to have as much conducting surface as You can where the RF-current is high-thats at the feed on the ground for the antennas in discussion.Thats exactly where the most energy is dissipated =in poor conducting soil and in lossy dielectrics.Additionally in non-ideal Inductors-but thats not the issue. Coming back to LF,i found the antenna current only slightly increasing with more chicken-wire.BUT ! The field-strength came up unproportionaly !! That means the efficiency came up and that is something You don`t see on the feedpoint-current.Some get misleaded that way.For newcomers to "antenna-land" it means that raising input power is one thing,the other is bringing up the efficiency,and as the later one is a very complex function of too many factors we cannot sufficiently control,the best is to measure the field strength- to which i think Dick-PA0SE made a very helpful contribution.In addition i think it is good to reduce the amount of lossy dielectric ( soil )in the field,with a ground screen on the ground You can achieve that,given that the surface is big enough to cancel most of the ground effect from the "original ground ". sorry for the bandwidth i am taking here,but i guess thats the purpose of this forum.I tried to refrain from formulas and " Einstein-type" hypothesis and get a fruitful exchange with people started,that know more about it than i do. good dx !! de df2py From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4797 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 23:06:48 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 23:06:48 +0100 Received: (qmail 2843 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 22:09:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 22:09:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117nHN-0000Et-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 22:54:57 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mda.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.3] helo=mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117nHK-0000Ed-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 22:54:56 +0100 Received: from [203.96.108.55] by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990723215719.PJHC956294.mta2-rme@[203.96.108.55]> for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 09:57:19 +1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3798E3DD.2907@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 09:51:25 +1200 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Ground systems References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: The comments on ground systems are very interesting and I have some contributions: For a single vertical LF transmitting antenna, the most natural path for a radiating current is perfectly radial to the insulated base of the vertical, across the surface of the ground. Placing bare wire on or just under the ground, as so-called "radials" is a proven way of improving radiation efficiency. The problem is in the number and length of radials, which generally gets beyond the scope of an amateur antenna. For a typical amateur LF vertical antenna, the first wires in are the "best value" and they generally improve efficiency no matter how ideal or non-ideal they are placed. Metal stakes at the far ends are also likely to "earn their keep". On adding more and more "ground connections" there is a situation of diminishing returns (probably logarithmic?) and also situations can arise where natural current paths (perfectly radial) may conflict with forced current paths by wire radials installed in practical ways that involve corners, bends, etc, such as dodging a house or concrete yard! I have a practical situation to report where actual measurements were witnessed by myself and Kevin ZL4MD, when I was visiting his Central Otago QTH in February. Kevin has a farm, so has opportunity to have a bigger T antenna and longer radials than many others who experiment on LF. He had run lengths of surplus power line out as radials, from a central earth node at the base of the vertical. The radials were on the surface or slightly below ground. He also could connect to the mains earth via a low loss large value polypropylene capacitor, with the intention to connect the electricity mains earth in parallel with the RF earth. We did tests for antenna resistance (with current and voltage probes on a directional coupler, as well as line current checks) and the result we got was not what we expected. Connecting the mains earth to the RF earth INCREASED THE RF RESISTANCE OF THE ANTENNA. We re-checked several times, and also checked that the voltage across the capacitor was low (which it was). So there was no mistake in the experimental result. In that case, it was not a good move to connect the mains earth. The explanation is most likely that the path of the mains earth is back to Kevin's house (the shack is some 50 metres away), with driven earth there, then taking an oblique path back via the powerline to the distibution power line, far from being in a radial direction. This means that RF forced to flow via that mains earth is far from the ideal radial direction, and conflicts with the current departing via the intended RF earth with radially laid bare wire. Nature's answer of the current conflict is to "increase the system resistance". This could also be thought of as a sort of "shorted turn" in the ground system. This type of event arises only when the radial system is getting fairly good anyway, but serves as a reminder that it is not always best to bond all grounds together. Regards, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28401 invoked from network); 24 Jul 1999 01:45:16 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Jul 1999 01:45:16 +0100 Received: (qmail 30895 invoked from network); 24 Jul 1999 00:47:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jul 1999 00:47:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117pf5-0001Sb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 01:27:35 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mda.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.1] helo=mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 117pf3-0001ST-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 01:27:34 +0100 Received: from [203.96.99.198] by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990724003038.QZZM957005.mta1-rme@[203.96.99.198]> for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 12:30:38 +1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3799079F.172A@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 12:23:59 +1200 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Ground systems References: <3798E3DD.2907@xtra.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi all, I missed one other piece of information, which is now added: Kevin ZL4MD uses link coupling from his LF transmitter, which isolates the RF output, so there is no path for the mains (safety) earth to travel via his RF feeder to the LF antenna. That is how he keeps the RF and mains earth separate. Unless the two are electrically separate, and known to be safe, the experiment of connecting or removing a link between the two earth systems is not available. Bob ZL2CA vernall wrote: > > The comments on ground systems are very interesting and I have some > contributions: > > For a single vertical LF transmitting antenna, the most natural path for > a radiating current is perfectly radial to the insulated base of the > vertical, across the surface of the ground. Placing bare wire on or > just under the ground, as so-called "radials" is a proven way of > improving radiation efficiency. The problem is in the number and length > of radials, which generally gets beyond the scope of an amateur antenna. > > For a typical amateur LF vertical antenna, the first wires in are the > "best value" and they generally improve efficiency no matter how ideal > or non-ideal they are placed. Metal stakes at the far ends are also > likely to "earn their keep". On adding more and more "ground > connections" there is a situation of diminishing returns (probably > logarithmic?) and also situations can arise where natural current paths > (perfectly radial) may conflict with forced current paths by wire > radials installed in practical ways that involve corners, bends, etc, > such as dodging a house or concrete yard! > > I have a practical situation to report where actual measurements were > witnessed by myself and Kevin ZL4MD, when I was visiting his Central > Otago QTH in February. Kevin has a farm, so has opportunity to have a > bigger T antenna and longer radials than many others who experiment on > LF. He had run lengths of surplus power line out as radials, from a > central earth node at the base of the vertical. The radials were on the > surface or slightly below ground. He also could connect to the mains > earth via a low loss large value polypropylene capacitor, with the > intention to connect the electricity mains earth in parallel with the RF > earth. We did tests for antenna resistance (with current and voltage > probes on a directional coupler, as well as line current checks) and the > result we got was not what we expected. Connecting the mains earth to > the RF earth INCREASED THE RF RESISTANCE OF THE ANTENNA. We re-checked > several times, and also checked that the voltage across the capacitor > was low (which it was). So there was no mistake in the experimental > result. In that case, it was not a good move to connect the mains > earth. > > The explanation is most likely that the path of the mains earth is back > to Kevin's house (the shack is some 50 metres away), with driven earth > there, then taking an oblique path back via the powerline to the > distibution power line, far from being in a radial direction. This > means that RF forced to flow via that mains earth is far from the ideal > radial direction, and conflicts with the current departing via the > intended RF earth with radially laid bare wire. Nature's answer of the > current conflict is to "increase the system resistance". This could > also be thought of as a sort of "shorted turn" in the ground system. > This type of event arises only when the radial system is getting fairly > good anyway, but serves as a reminder that it is not always best to bond > all grounds together. > > Regards, > > Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20555 invoked from network); 24 Jul 1999 17:51:20 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Jul 1999 17:51:20 +0100 Received: (qmail 14582 invoked from network); 24 Jul 1999 16:53:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jul 1999 16:53:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1184qt-0007PZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 17:40:47 +0100 Received: from kodos.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.29]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1184qs-0007PO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 17:40:46 +0100 Received: from p149.lifford1.tinet.ie ([159.134.235.149] helo=beachwood.tinet.ie) by kodos.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 1184qn-0005UN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 17:40:41 +0100 Message-ID: <000a01bed5f3$b06179e0$95eb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Ant effects Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 01:40:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi Doc, Found your comments regarding effects on Medium wave broadcast antenna systems very interesting indeed, and as you say, LF must be effected even more by surrounding objects, considering how narrow tuned they are, with our tiny antenna's. If I keep my present system in place until Winter time, I will observe whether there is a gradual rise in Antenna current, back to what it was, last Winter. If we can get rid of Loran, on both sides of the Atlantic, perhaps we will one day have an LF/LF qso, however a friend of mine in Canada tells me that the Loran signal really makes a mess of reception on 136 khz, pity really. Best regards Finbar EI0CF -----Original Message----- From: Doc Gruis To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 22 July 1999 02:56 Subject: LF: De-tuned antenna >I really don't know if there is the practice in Europe of >directional AM broadcast stations, i.e., 540 to 1600 (or 1700) KHz., but >it sure is practiced here in the U.S. > > The mention was made of the foliage growth close to the feed line, >etc. Here are a couple of many instances of natures messing up an >antenna system. Well, maybe three...) > > 1. One station I worked at was on 1390 KHz. and had a four tower >array and the tower field was surrounded by corn fields and even though >they were over a hundred feet away at the closest point, the radiation >pattern of the station was altered and so was the impedance's, tuning, >phase, etc., of the towers. > > 2. I worked at another 4 tower station on 1360 and for no apparent >reason the whole array would go in and out of tune and specifications. >Then one evening, I spotted a field mouse in the tuning house and found >nests built inside the lighting isolation transformers or coils, >whichever they happened to have. The little mice must have thought it >very warm due to R-F heating. > > 3. And it seems like last winter someone on this list was talking >about ice formation and that is enough said. > > SO if the tuning is that sensitive at a frequency about ten times >your 136 KHz. band, it must be devastating at the long waves! > > I certainly enjoy the postings to this list. Thank you very much! >AND your home pages are very good indeed. > > I have a 1 watt beacon operating on 175 KHz. and will be putting up >a new antenna this autumn. My efforts must be modest since our lot is a >rather conventional 50 X 150'. > >73! > >Doc, K0HTF and long wave "D" > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4344 invoked from network); 25 Jul 1999 10:01:24 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Jul 1999 10:01:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 25952 invoked from network); 25 Jul 1999 09:03:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO md.egroups.com) (207.138.41.139) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jul 1999 09:03:55 -0000 Received: from [10.1.2.1] by md.egroups.com with NNFMP; 25 Jul 1999 09:56:43 -0000 Mailing-List: contact lofexp-owner@egroups.com X-Mailing-List: lofexp@egroups.com X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/lofexp/ Reply-To: lofexp@egroups.com Received: (qmail 10164 invoked by uid 7770); 25 Jul 1999 08:56:41 -0000 Received: from qg.egroups.com (HELO qg.findmail.com) (10.1.2.27) by ivault.egroups.com with SMTP; 25 Jul 1999 08:56:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 8984 invoked from network); 25 Jul 1999 08:56:41 -0000 Received: from teapot25.domain0.bigpond.com (139.134.5.173) by qg.egroups.com with SMTP; 25 Jul 1999 08:56:41 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by teapot25.domain0.bigpond.com (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id aa042614 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 18:55:03 +1000 Received: from MOIP-A-002-pool-74.tmns.net.au ([139.134.91.74]) by mail0.bigpond.com (Claudes-Frosty-MailRouter V2.4a 13/417585); 25 Jul 1999 18:55:02 Message-ID: <003201bed67b$91408a00$065b868b@gzimmer> From: "Graeme Zimmer" To: psk31@bipt106.bi.ehu.es, lofexp@egroups.com, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, QRP-L@Lehigh.EDU Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 18:56:20 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: [lofexp] PSK31 and ground conduction communication Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi folks,
 
Greetings from the Latrobe Valley, Victoria, Australia.
I hope that this subject is not too far off topic....
 
For years I have been interested in "ground conduction" communications.
 
Occasionally I had played with amplifiers and morse code, but when PSK31 arrived, I knew that it was just perfect for ground conduction coms.....
 
Lately I have hooked up an "earth dipole" which consists of two 100 Mtr runs of wire with earth stakes at each end. I have been having much fun listening to Whisters and Tweeks etc (as well as lots of mains hum !).
 
Today I hooked up my PC to an audio amp and a suitable transformer and fed PSK31 into my earth dipole.
 
I left PSK31 sending a large text file and went for a drive up to the local park about 1 km away and put two earth stakes in (at 100 m apart) and hooked up my laptop PC using the microphone input.
 
Viola!. Perfect copy !!!!!!   Really strong signals too...
 
There was strong QRN from a nearby electric fence, as well as overload from Omega, but considering all that, it worked amazingly well....
 
One interesting thing is that 1000Hz is completely clear. I thought that it would have had a 50hz harmonic on it, but not so, it seems..... of course, PSF31 can tune to find a clearer spot if necessary...
 
I was running QRP, perhaps 10W or so. It would be intersesting to put the full output of my generator into the ground, via a rectifier and a H bridge and harmonic filter.
 
I have been collecting info on earth conduction for many years, so if anyone is interested in this facinating subject, please write direct to me at gzimmer@bigpond.com
 
73's  .................. Zim  (Graeme Zimmer) ................... VK3GJZ
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From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13668 invoked from network); 25 Jul 1999 12:02:37 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Jul 1999 12:02:37 +0100 Received: (qmail 7208 invoked from network); 25 Jul 1999 11:05:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jul 1999 11:05:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118LpV-0005l0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 11:48:29 +0100 Received: from mcclure.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.31]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118LpU-0005kv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 11:48:28 +0100 Received: from p142.lifford1.tinet.ie ([159.134.235.142] helo=beachwood.tinet.ie) by mcclure.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 118LpM-00033F-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 11:48:21 +0100 Message-ID: <001601bed68b$a3535be0$8eeb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: re:136.150 beacon Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 11:50:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
                     BEACON  ON 136.150 KHZ
I have put on air an LF beacon, running  H24, on 136.150 khz. This is of a temporary nature and the frequency can be shifted to accomodate those who have a problem with their xtal freq transmitters or who have local reception problems.
I would very much welcome reception reports on these transmissions, my callsign, EI0CF, is repeated continuously.
Checking with other LF operators, my transmit power has been increased from  low power to medium power on this test. Antenna current is  2 amps.
The rig is my normal Mosfet one, running with a much lower voltage. There are a pair of IRFP450  in the final.
Loading coil inductance is  1200 uH.
NOTE.  This transmitter uses a vfo, so there will be  a certain amount of drift, but I have set it up with a freq counter and I will try  to keep the transmitter running on this declared frequency. Initial drift took it up to  136.156 khz but it seems to remain quite close to  136.150 khz.
Once again, I will be delighted to hear from those who can hear this transmission and under what circumstances they are receiving it.
Best regards
Finbar          EI0CF     Malin Head.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1290 invoked from network); 25 Jul 1999 15:31:37 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Jul 1999 15:31:37 +0100 Received: (qmail 29800 invoked from network); 25 Jul 1999 14:34:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jul 1999 14:34:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118PCb-00074i-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 15:24:33 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail1-gui.server.ntli.net ([194.168.222.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118PCa-00074d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 15:24:32 +0100 Received: from cableol.co.uk ([194.168.18.100]) by mail1-gui.server.ntli.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-33929U70000L2S50) with ESMTP id AAA23033 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 15:12:03 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <379B1A4A.6ABAC693@cableol.co.uk> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 15:08:10 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: re problems G3XDV and whippy mast extensions? References: <000901becd8c$0f99b640$e8daac3e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Alan Melia G3NYK wrote: > . . . . . > My other loony idea was to use a balloon, not like Steve does to hold up the > weight of the whole of his 20m vertical (I think), but just to extend the > height of a 15 metre lightweight mast. If the bottom 15m of wire were thick, > supported by the mast, the upper 15m could be quite thin, light wire. > In fact, I only use the balloons to support the top section (typically, 8 m). This method of increasing the height of the basic vertical means that the average height of the antenna remains reasonably high when the breeze starts to blow, because the 'anchor point' for the additional wire is at 12 m above ground level. For more details, have a look at: http://www.cableol.net/alg/radio/136/experi_vert.htm Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13797 invoked from network); 25 Jul 1999 21:33:44 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Jul 1999 21:33:44 +0100 Received: (qmail 20600 invoked from network); 25 Jul 1999 20:36:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jul 1999 20:36:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118Ub5-0000e3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 21:10:11 +0100 Received: from mb05.swip.net ([193.12.122.209]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118Ub3-0000dy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 21:10:10 +0100 Received: from s-257519 (dialup38-1-3.swipnet.se [130.244.38.3]) by mb05.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA02799 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:10:07 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <00a901bed6d9$b6cd2ea0$0326f482@s-257519> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: SV: LF: Ground systems Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:09:35 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: >From Johan, SM6LKM Bob, ZL2CA, wrote: >Connecting the mains earth to the RF earth INCREASED THE RF >RESISTANCE OF THE ANTENNA. We re-checked several times, >and also checked that the voltage across the capacitor was low >(which it was). So there was no mistake in the experimental result. >In that case, it was not a good move to connect the mains earth. This is interesting. I have had the same experience. My antenna is an inverted L, about 80 - 90 meters long, height varies between 10 and 20 meters (sloping terrain) and the far end is the highest point. The feedpoint resistance was about 75 ohms when mains protective ground was used alone (including loading coil etc). When I tried the 6 inch steel tube in our deep drilled water source, the feedpoint resistance fell to 36 ohms at resonance. The tube is 12 meters long, 11 of which of goes through soil and the remaining 1 meter is inserted into the solid rock below. When I connected the mains ground in parallel with the big tube, feedpoint resistance increased to about 55 ohms. I do not have a complete understanding of what happened but I think that the efficiency of the antenna is better with the big tube ground alone, regardless of feedpoint resistance changes. I will make field strength measurements as soon as I find time to finish a PA... (Thanks to Dick Rollema for a great article!) The soil is quite"transparent" at 136 kHz and the penetration depth can be several tens of meters (skin effect). With the deep tube, the average electrical ground level is perhaps 6 meters *below* the surface so I believe that the effective height is greater than what one might first expect. Connecting the mains ground in parallel will probably reduce the effective heigth. Any comments? 73 de Johan, SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18499 invoked from network); 25 Jul 1999 22:10:42 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Jul 1999 22:10:42 +0100 Received: (qmail 27394 invoked from network); 25 Jul 1999 21:13:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jul 1999 21:13:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118VNL-0000wU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:00:03 +0100 Received: from neodymium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.83]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118VNK-0000wP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:00:03 +0100 Received: from [212.140.34.159] (helo=default) by neodymium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 118VNB-0004Wt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 21:59:54 +0100 Message-ID: <000101bed6e0$61bf54e0$9f228cd4@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster posting for 24/25th July at GB7DXM Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 21:56:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi all, I was not able to spend much time on the bands this weekend, but when I did listen the conditions in the morning and early afternoon seemed quite quiet. Activity seemed to tail off by about1000Z on Saturdaay. I do not remember seeing much between then and 1200Z, despite quiet levels.The static levels were building up by around 1900Z. I heard DF3LP on Saturday on QRS CW at about 1710Z through to 1810z on 137.69khz. With the 500hz filter and the narrower dispersion position on FFTDSP4 he was a definite M and possibly an O. I think I could just hear the tone in the speaker, which means he should be copiable in UK by most of the active stations ( with better rx sensitivity than me)on hand speed morse. (If, that is, he has not worked you all already!) Cluster postings for this weekend:- 137.7 DF3LP 25-Jul-1999 1652Z cq slow-cw "O" 137.0 DJ1RL 25-Jul-1999 1340Z 136.5 OZ1KMR 25-Jul-1999 0902Z cq 419 in jn48wl 136.9 DF2PY 23-Jul-1999 0900Z cq (599) gm Wolf... 136.9 DF2PY 23-Jul-1999 0900Z cq (599) gm Wolf... 136.6 DL3FDO 21-Jul-1999 1931Z calling cq 136.6 ON7YD 21-Jul-1999 1927Z clng dl3fdo 137.6 DL3FDO 21-Jul-1999 1856Z cq 136.4 PA0CC 21-Jul-1999 1724Z G3NYK de GB7DXM 25-Jul 2012Z > 1800.0 DF3LP 25-Jul-1999 1706Z QRS cq 'O' jo02pb 1800.0 DF2PY 22-Jul-1999 0513Z 136.9 khz RST 549 IN IO94SF G3NYK de GB7DXM 25-Jul 2012Z > 73 de Alan G3NYK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1169 invoked from network); 25 Jul 1999 23:50:58 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Jul 1999 23:50:58 +0100 Received: (qmail 13584 invoked from network); 25 Jul 1999 22:53:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jul 1999 22:53:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118Wzg-0001Zf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 23:43:44 +0100 Received: from [194.109.127.49] (helo=smtp3.xs4all.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118Wzf-0001Za-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 23:43:43 +0100 Received: from v3q4v1 (dc2-isdn867.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.151.99]) by smtp3.xs4all.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA11245 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 00:43:42 +0200 (CEST) From: "M. Sanders" To: "LF-reflector RSGB" Subject: LF: Weekend report july 24-26th. 1999. Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 00:41:35 +0200 Message-ID: <000001bed6ee$d989cd80$63976dc2@v3q4v1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi All, This was the second weekend in a row with reasonably low QRN. QRS-CW acitvity on sunday gave me the chance to try some new settings for Spectogram 5.0 The results including some new Spectograms can be seen on my site at: http://www/xs4all.nl/~misan/gram50+2.htm. I have been trying to monitor Finbar, EI0CF's beacon and to be quite frank I am a little disappointed not to hear the booming signals that could have been expected according to his stations description posted last week HI. Will regularly check the frequency anyway and report, thanks Finbar for the efford and providing an interesting receiving experiment. Friday july 23th. 1999: Normal CW: DJ5DI (529), GM3YXM/P??(51?) and PA0WFS (539) Saturday july 24th. 1999: Normal CW: G4GVC (539) and PA0SE (559) poor propagation despite low noise levels?. Sunday july 25th. 1999: Normal CW: DL3FDO (539), PA0SE (589), GM3YXM/P (529), G4GVC (549) and G3KEV (549) On QRS-CW seen on Spectogram: G3XDV =O(529), HB9ADB =O, DF3LP =O(549) and DK8KW = O(539). Maybe DJ5BV was also caling CQ, but I looked to late and only 5BV (539) was left on the screen, sory. Best 73's and good luck on LF, Michael Sanders, PA3BSH mailto:pa3bsh@amsat.org From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3298 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 00:09:43 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 00:09:43 +0100 Received: (qmail 17538 invoked from network); 25 Jul 1999 23:12:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jul 1999 23:12:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118XHx-0001s5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 00:02:37 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com ([198.81.17.67]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118XHw-0001qs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 00:02:36 +0100 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.25) id lMQSa04348 (538) for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 19:01:50 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <112115a8.24ccf15d@aol.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 19:01:49 EDT Subject: Re: LF: re:136.150 beacon To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 134 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: In a message dated 25/07/99 11:52:56 GMT Daylight Time, beachwood@tinet.ie writes: << BEACON ON 136.150 KHZ I have put on air an LF beacon, running H24, on 136.150 khz. This is of a temporary nature and the frequency can be shifted to accomodate those who have a problem with their xtal freq transmitters or who have local reception problems. I would very much welcome reception reports on these transmissions, my callsign, EI0CF, is repeated continuously. >> Sounds interesting, What is H24? Re communication: Not all operators have access to the internet to express their thoughts on beacon operation. At this location G3KEV is frequently heard around this frequency but as far as I know he is not on the net. Similarly, I believe there is a beacon on in Germany which has been on for weeks with low erp, in the middle of the band. Is there a particular duration, or experiment planned. I'll have a listen for it after the weekend - When the neighbours switch off the QRM. Could be interesting to see the differences between daytime and night time propagation. 73 David From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8570 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 07:11:55 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 07:11:55 +0100 Received: (qmail 11291 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 06:14:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 06:14:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118dfl-0004ZY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 06:51:37 +0100 Received: from mail5.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118dfk-0004ZT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 06:51:36 +0100 Received: from modem-74.dextroamphetam.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.62.202] helo=default) by mail5.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 118dfh-0006h2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 06:51:34 +0100 Message-ID: <000001bed72b$00753740$ca3e883e@default> From: "wireless" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000901becd8c$0f99b640$e8daac3e@default> <379B1A4A.6ABAC693@cableol.co.uk> Subject: LF: Spectrogram 5 vs 426 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 06:50:29 +0100 Organization: T@ylor Training MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: My own observations showed that a weak signal seemed to show up better on 426 than 5, although I could well have not learned how to drive the latter. However that was version 5.01. I see from the web page for Spectrogram that there is now a v. 5.08. Has anyone tried this? John Taylor G0AKN earth@wireless.freeserve.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11819 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 08:08:08 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 08:08:08 +0100 Received: (qmail 17023 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 06:57:25 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 06:57:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118eZ4-0004xj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 07:48:46 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226] helo=gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118eZ3-0004xe-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 07:48:46 +0100 Received: by gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA14006; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:49:53 +0200 (MET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Message-ID: From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" To: "'rsgb_lf_group'" Subject: LF: report 25. Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:48:41 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hallo Group, heard OZ1KMR (519) calling cq at abt. 09:00 utc. Later in qso with DL3FDO (529). Tried both but no answer. What is the Loc. of OZ1KZR ? Did not hear anything of OK1FIG. Did someone? 73 de DL1SAN Wolf From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15332 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 08:36:39 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 08:36:39 +0100 Received: (qmail 23689 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 07:39:15 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 07:39:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118fDF-0005FM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:30:17 +0100 Received: from apollo.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.125]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118fDE-0005FH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:30:16 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from harrier.le.ac.uk ([143.210.8.56]) by apollo.le.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 118fDD-0007gV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:30:15 +0100 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:31:49 +0100 (BST) From: "Kate Moore" X-Sender: mek@harrier To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Weekend report Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Stations worked here over the weekend on 136kHz using normal speed CW: Friday 23/7 GM3YXM/P (13.43UT: gave him 579, he gave me 579), EI0CF (18.05: 579, 569). Saturday 24/7 GM3YXM/P (06.59: 57/89, 57/89), PA0SE (07.10: 57/89, 57/89 [-83dBm]). Sunday 25/7 GM3YXM/P (08.00: 57/89, 579). I was fairly inactive again this weekend and when I was about, activity seemed very low. This was a pity 'cos Dave was back up in Southwest Scotland, putting out an excellent signal but having to work hard to get contacts. Static levels were lower than they have been recently, but I am suffering with some low-level buzz from what appears to be a SMPSU close by, so my background noise level varies quite a lot at the moment and I can't always hear the weakest DX. I found Finbar's beacon on Saturday evening just above 136.700kHz at around S4/5, and it was still audible above the SMPSU early Sunday norning. Apparently this was running QRP with about 1A antenna current. Later when he moved it to around 136.165kHz it came up to a nice S6. I was very interested in the comments from Bob ZL2CA last weekend about horizontal antennas on LF. Probably the most successful DXer on 136kHz (especially when you take into account TX power) is Reino OH1TN, and as most of you will know, he uses a very long and predominantly horizontal wire (although it is reasonably high too). As I have now been heard in HS6.... (!! - no, it WASN'T me who put that spot on the cluster, but I will gladly QSL...) Seriously though, I have always used mostly horizontal wires on 73 and 136kHz and my earliest configuration had almost no vertical component, despite a number of people at that time suggesting it wouldn't work. It's interesting that I was using this when I was the first person outside the Baltic area to receive Reino, back in December '97. The DX QSOs I've been making with my present antenna (which is still quite low and mostly horizontal) show that even relatively short horizontal antennas do work well on LF. In addition, I've noticed that my receive signal to noise ratio often seems better than that of stations using big vertical antennas, although there could be other reasons for this. Traditionally, the horizontal sections of LF antennas have been considered a necessary evil to provide loading, but I feel that, especially for amateur work, horizontal antennas can provide extremely good results in their own right. Regards John G4GVC near Leicester, IO92JP ** TX: Synth + 400W RF from modified 'G3YXM' Mosfet PA ** ** RX: TS-850S with 3 x CW filters and 0.5ppm TCXO ** ** Ant: Inv-L 60m long, 6m high at feed end, 12m high at far end ** From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18006 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 08:59:24 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 08:59:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 27927 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 08:01:58 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 08:01:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118fVw-0005NJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:49:36 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118fVv-0005NE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:49:35 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA11402 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:55:14 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990726095047.2eff9c40@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:50:47 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Ground systems In-reply-to: <3798E3DD.2907@xtra.co.nz> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: At 09:51 24/07/99 +1200, ZL2CA wrote: >Connecting the mains earth to the RF earth INCREASED THE RF RESISTANCE >OF THE ANTENNA. I (and others) experienced the same. I think that this increase could be explained by the fact that the 'returning' current coming from the 'radial-earth' and from the 'mains-earth' have different phase, so simple 'resistor-wise' paralleling of both earthsystems is not valid. If the phase-difference between both currents is large enough the resulting total current will be less than the current from 1 system only. Or said otherwise the total resistance will increase instead of decrease. Would be interesting if not only the currents in both earthsystems but also their phasedifference could be measured. 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19592 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 09:07:50 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 09:07:50 +0100 Received: (qmail 29624 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 08:10:26 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 08:10:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118fgz-0005SQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:01:01 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118fgx-0005SE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:01:00 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA14971 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:06:48 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990726100222.2cf78a7a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:02:22 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: re:136.150 beacon In-reply-to: <001601bed68b$a3535be0$8eeb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: At 11:50 25/07/99 +0100, you wrote: > BEACON ON 136.150 KHZ >I have put on air an LF beacon, running H24, on 136.150 khz. This is of a temporary nature and the frequency can be shifted to accomodate those who have a problem with their xtal freq transmitters or who have local reception problems. >I would very much welcome reception reports on these transmissions, my callsign, EI0CF, is repeated continuously. >Checking with other LF operators, my transmit power has been increased from low power to medium power on this test. Antenna current is 2 amps. >The rig is my normal Mosfet one, running with a much lower voltage. There are a pair of IRFP450 in the final. >Loading coil inductance is 1200 uH. >NOTE. This transmitter uses a vfo, so there will be a certain amount of drift, but I have set it up with a freq counter and I will try to keep the transmitter running on this declared frequency. Initial drift took it up to 136.156 khz but it seems to remain quite close to 136.150 khz. >Once again, I will be delighted to hear from those who can hear this transmission and under what circumstances they are receiving it. >Best regards >Finbar EI0CF Malin Head. Hi Finbar, I will try to copy your baecon tonogh or tomorrow morning and let you know the results. Maybe it would be interesting to add 2 long dashes (10 seconds, separated about 3 seconds) every 2 or 3 minutes. This would make the detection of you signal using DSP (Spectogram) much easier for those outside the audible range of your signal. As I'm writing to the LF-group I add a short weekend report: heard (seen) in slow-CW : G3XDV (539), DF3LP (529) heard in normal CW : G4GVC (549), G3KEV (579), GM3YXM/P (539), PA0SE (589), DL3FDO (549), G3BDQ (539), OZ1KMR (559), OZ5N (529), G3AQC (529, DF8ZR (429) 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28882 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 09:56:56 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 09:56:56 +0100 Received: (qmail 7888 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 08:59:31 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 08:59:31 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118gDz-0005hE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:35:07 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118gDy-0005h4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:35:06 +0100 Received: from walter (userm128.uk.uudial.com [193.149.77.178]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA18145 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:30:46 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <199907260830.JAA18145@fm215.facility.pipex.com> X-Sender: blanch@mailhost.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:33:40 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Finbars' 136.150 beacon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello Finbar. Have only just got back home after weekend away but saw your email re beacon so tuned in and there it is clearly audible in a 250 Hz bandwidth well above Loran QRM and no need for Spectrogram. Time Monday 26th, 0830 GMT, QTH Dorking, 28 kms SW of London, IO91UF, or 5113N 00019W. Kit - 136 own-build preamp into Icom 737, antenna top band dipole with feeders strapped (about 80 ft high). Will leave Rx running for a few days and see how it goes. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 264 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 10:03:53 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 10:03:53 +0100 Received: (qmail 9674 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 09:06:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 09:06:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118gVg-0005po-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:53:24 +0100 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118gVe-0005pe-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:53:22 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 118gWB-0000bI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:53:55 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:38:59 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:41:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Weekend Report 21-23 July X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Friday 23 July Heard G3KEV (599) "Worked GM3YXM/P (459, 459). QRN bad. Saturday 24 July Quiet morning. Heard GM3YXM/P (549); G4GVC (599); PA0SE (579); G6NB (579). Worked G3YMC (gave 419/529, got 599) Saw on Spectrogram screen QRSs from DF3LP (O and audible at S1). Sunday 25 July Quiet start then bad local QRM. Heard G8RW (579); PA0SE (579); G3KEV (599); G3BDQ (599); EI0CF (beaconing at 359 QRM); GM3YXM/P (559). Saw on Spectrgram screen HB9ASB (O). Mike From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1382 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 12:44:23 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 12:44:23 +0100 Received: (qmail 11629 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 11:46:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 11:46:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118j3L-00072n-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:36:19 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118j3K-00072h-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:36:18 +0100 Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id HAA20302; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 07:42:03 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA06089; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 07:35:15 -0400 Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by umrsvr.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA21388; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 07:33:08 -0400 Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:30:58 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Soegiono, Gamal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Who uses EZNEC Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:30:51 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello all, does anyone of you have experience with EZNEC modelling software? As far as I know, this is the only software (except for the original but cumbersome NEC) capable of modelling the ground influence on antenna feedpoint Impedance as well as on far field diagram AND incorporating the conductor conductivity. Most other programs account for ground influence on far field diagram, but not on feed impedance, conductor losses are omitted. It might be worthwhile to simulate antenna arrangements with EZNEC, using an elevated Radial System. Radials need not have resonant length, but might be "lengthened" by a radial loading coil in addition to the vertical radiator's loading coil. 73 de Gamal From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11788 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 13:31:11 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 13:31:11 +0100 Received: (qmail 22176 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 12:33:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 12:33:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118jml-0007O4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:23:15 +0100 Received: from mail5.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118jml-0007Nz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:23:15 +0100 Received: from modem-17.cisapride.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.57.17] helo=default) by mail5.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 118jmi-0007WM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:23:13 +0100 Message-ID: <000001bed761$b696faa0$1139883e@default> From: "wireless" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000001bed6ee$d989cd80$63976dc2@v3q4v1> Subject: LF: more on spectrogram Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:19:53 +0100 Organization: T@ylor Training MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Perhaps I can answer my own question. I have just tried v5.08 on a weak signal that I had recorded. In my opinion it outperforms not just 5.01 but also 4.26. 73 John Taylor G0AKN earth@wireless.freeserve.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22781 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 14:14:26 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 14:14:26 +0100 Received: (qmail 32611 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 13:17:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 13:17:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118kPk-0007eO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:03:32 +0100 Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118kPj-0007dt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:03:31 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:03:00 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de ([194.94.166.130]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA04504 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:03:12 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <379C5BFF.1384A52E@nephro.uni-kiel.de> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:00:47 +0200 From: "P. W. Schnoor" Organization: Clinic of Nephrology, University of Kiel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586) X-Accept-Language: de, en To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Who uses EZNEC References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello to all, Hi Gamal, "Soegiono, Gamal" wrote: > does anyone of you have experience with EZNEC modelling software? > > As far as I know, this is the only software (except for the original but > cumbersome NEC) capable of modelling the ground influence on > antenna feedpoint Impedance as well as on far field diagram AND > incorporating the conductor conductivity. As far as I know NECx (EZNEC only is a front-end) needs an add-on for this purposes called SOMNEC calculating Sommerfeld Parameters, whatever this my be... > Most other programs account for ground influence on far field diagram, > but not on feed impedance, conductor losses are omitted. One problem for NECx simulating small antennas is that it cannot compute "pulses" *very* small compared to wavelength. Here MiniNEC works better since very short segments will be computed more reliably. 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP PS: Thanks for many reception reports, phone calls included... From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26222 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 14:27:53 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 14:27:53 +0100 Received: (qmail 3031 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 13:30:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 13:30:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118kfI-0007ku-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:19:36 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mailout10.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.158]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118kfG-0007kp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:19:34 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fwd14.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.174]) by mailout10.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 118kfE-0000yO-00; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:19:32 +0200 Received: (087321565-0001(btxid)@[212.184.146.130]) by fwd14.btx.dtag.de id ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:19:24 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:19:24 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3798E3DD.2907@xtra.co.nz> <3799079F.172A@xtra.co.nz> Subject: Re: LF: Ground systems and first tuning results X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-online.de From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hallo all interested, the conditions which Bob, ZL2CA, has described concerning the QTH of Kevin, ZL4MD, in principle are the same as at my QTH: For LF I can use either the house ground, which is also connected to the water pipe net, or a radial ground made of 28 insulated litz wires with lengths between 12 meters and 30 meters depending on the available space in that direction. When working on this radial system and continuously measuring the feed point resistance under resonance conditions, however, I could not confirm Bobs remark that metal stakes at the far ends would give an improvement. At least on my insulated radial system the feed point resistance increased. Especially with rather few radial wires the radial ground had been very sensitive against any ground connection, including a simple earthstake connected to the centre of the system. After the number of radials had approached 18 the earth stake (just a few inches deep) connection to the centre could be tolerated, but never the connection to the house ground. Once I have tried to elevate all my radials about one foot from the ground: The feedpoint resistance remained the same, I needed more inductivity in the variometer, and the sensitivity to any connection to ground even increased! This sensitivity obviously depends of the capacity of the insulated radial system to ground. As reported by DJ2LF from a distance of about 160 kilometers there is no significant difference in signal strength between both grounds. But paralling both grounds also results in an increased feed point resistance (Rfp). Similarly to ZL4MD I employ a ferrite matching transformer (for matching the 50 ohms feed line to the Rfp of about 95 ohms) with two independant windings to separate the equipment in the shack (connected to the house ground) from the radial system. The LF antenna has two top wires spaced 1,5 meters, 25 meters long and 10 meters high, and a Y-shaped downlead to the variometer (Lv) at the centre of the radial system. The connection lead to the house ground is about 12 meters long. Some data measured over the weekend: Series resistance of variometer Lv about 18 to 20 ohms. Antenna tuned to house ground: Lv = 3.681 mH; Rfp = 96 ohms. Antenna tuned to radial system: LV = 3.780 mH; Rfp = 89 ohms. Comparing both measurements, the radial system must have a capacity of 13,69 nF (Xc = 85 ohms) which must be tuned out by Lv. The Q of the radial system is roughly 1 (Q = Xc/Rfp). Antenna tuned to both ground systems in parallel: Lv = 3.726 mH; Rfp = 160 ohms. Then I have tried to insert L or C in series to one (or even both) of the leads to the ground systems, employing the 12.000 pF variable capacitor already mentioned and a variometer of 68 to 390 microhenries. Both grounds could be paralleled by inserting either a capacitance of 12 nF (max C, optimum flat) in series to the house ground or an inductivity of 103 microhenries in series to the radial system. Both solutions resulted in an Rfp of about 85 ohms. But as the house ground is also beneficial for safety reasons, the method of inserting a capacitor in this lead has been discarded. The best solution has been the 103 microhenry coil in series with the radial system. Obviously this coil is compensating the capacitance of the radial system to ground. This solution also resulted in the lowest value for Lv = 3.578 mH, showing that this solution also makes optimum us of the capacity of the (given) antenna to ground. In my case the real "gain" in reducing feedpoint resistance from 96 ohms or 89 ohms to just 85 ohms seems to be of little practical value. May be that, according to the views of Bob, ZL2CA, the two different ground systems on the same estate are still conflicting, and that we cannot expect a ground resistance equal to the values of each ground system in parallel. But this may be different in other ham installations and should be worth to be investigated. I will continue to try some non-insulated radials buried a few inch into the ground and see if I can manage to reduce the house ground resistance significantly or not, because the insulated radial system in the garden is somewhat problematic, (especially for my wife). On the other hand, when thinking of an LF fieldday, an insulated radial system which may have much longer radials in the field than my own may be very useful and would avoid digging into the ground. Just an earthstake had to be provided for safety reasons, with a 5 kOhm lead resistor to the radial system and a spark gap to the antenna!. Finally I want to note that I have been impressed by the report of Johan Bodin, sm6lkm, on the beneficial effects of a ground system extending really deep into the ground. But few of us would have the chance to realize this on a private basis, I think. For completeness I have added the essentials of his email to this email report. 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB Johan Bodin, sm6lkm, wrote: Concerning paralleling different LF grounds, I have had the same experience. My antenna is an inverted L, about 80 - 90 meters long, height varies between 10 and 20 meters (sloping terrain) and the far end is the highest point. The feedpoint resistance was about 75 ohms when mains protective ground was used alone (including loading coil etc). When I tried the 6 inch steel tube in our deep drilled water source, the feedpoint resistance fell to 36 ohms at resonance. The tube is 12 meters long, 11 of which of goes through soil and the remaining 1 meter is inserted into the solid rock below. When I connected the mains ground in parallel with the big tube, feedpoint resistance increased to about 55 ohms. vernall schrieb: > Hi all, > > I missed one other piece of information, which is now added: Kevin > ZL4MD uses link coupling from his LF transmitter, which isolates the RF > output, so there is no path for the mains (safety) earth to travel via > his RF feeder to the LF antenna. That is how he keeps the RF and mains > earth separate. Unless the two are electrically separate, and known to > be safe, the experiment of connecting or removing a link between the two > earth systems is not available. > > Bob ZL2CA > > vernall wrote (one email earlier): > > > > The comments on ground systems are very interesting and I have some > > contributions: > > > > For a single vertical LF transmitting antenna, the most natural path for > > a radiating current is perfectly radial to the insulated base of the > > vertical, across the surface of the ground. Placing bare wire on or > > just under the ground, as so-called "radials" is a proven way of > > improving radiation efficiency. The problem is in the number and length > > of radials, which generally gets beyond the scope of an amateur antenna. > > > > For a typical amateur LF vertical antenna, the first wires in are the > > "best value" and they generally improve efficiency no matter how ideal > > or non-ideal they are placed. Metal stakes at the far ends are also > > likely to "earn their keep". On adding more and more "ground > > connections" there is a situation of diminishing returns (probably > > logarithmic?) and also situations can arise where natural current paths > > (perfectly radial) may conflict with forced current paths by wire > > radials installed in practical ways that involve corners, bends, etc, > > such as dodging a house or concrete yard! > > > > I have a practical situation to report where actual measurements were > > witnessed by myself and Kevin ZL4MD, when I was visiting his Central > > Otago QTH in February. Kevin has a farm, so has opportunity to have a > > bigger T antenna and longer radials than many others who experiment on > > LF. He had run lengths of surplus power line out as radials, from a > > central earth node at the base of the vertical. The radials were on the > > surface or slightly below ground. He also could connect to the mains > > earth via a low loss large value polypropylene capacitor, with the > > intention to connect the electricity mains earth in parallel with the RF > > earth. We did tests for antenna resistance (with current and voltage > > probes on a directional coupler, as well as line current checks) and the > > result we got was not what we expected. Connecting the mains earth to > > the RF earth INCREASED THE RF RESISTANCE OF THE ANTENNA. We re-checked > > several times, and also checked that the voltage across the capacitor > > was low (which it was). So there was no mistake in the experimental > > result. In that case, it was not a good move to connect the mains > > earth. > > > > The explanation is most likely that the path of the mains earth is back > > to Kevin's house (the shack is some 50 metres away), with driven earth > > there, then taking an oblique path back via the powerline to the > > distibution power line, far from being in a radial direction. This > > means that RF forced to flow via that mains earth is far from the ideal > > radial direction, and conflicts with the current departing via the > > intended RF earth with radially laid bare wire. Nature's answer of the > > current conflict is to "increase the system resistance". This could > > also be thought of as a sort of "shorted turn" in the ground system. > > This type of event arises only when the radial system is getting fairly > > good anyway, but serves as a reminder that it is not always best to bond > > all grounds together. > > > > Regards, > > > > Bob ZL2CA > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25820 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 16:31:08 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 16:31:08 +0100 Received: (qmail 31899 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 15:33:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 15:33:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118mOt-00000n-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:10:47 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.32] (helo=Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118mOr-000006-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:10:45 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.151.62]) by Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAC4897; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:09:27 +0200 Message-ID: <003101bed779$8c92d400$3e97b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "Klaas Spaargaren, PA0KSB" , "Jan Hekkert, PA3HCD" , "Ger van Went, PA0GER" Subject: LF: Re: Who uses EZNEC Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:05:13 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: >From PA0SE Gamal Soegioeno wrote: >Hello all, > >does anyone of you have experience with EZNEC modelling software? > >As far as I know, this is the only software (except for the original but >cumbersome NEC) capable of modelling the ground influence on >antenna feedpoint Impedance as well as on far field diagram AND >incorporating the conductor conductivity. > >Most other programs account for ground influence on far field diagram, >but not on feed impedance, conductor losses are omitted. > >It might be worthwhile to simulate antenna arrangements with EZNEC, >using an elevated Radial System. Radials need not have resonant >length, but might be "lengthened" by a radial loading coil in addition >to the vertical radiator's loading coil. > >73 de Gamal > Dear Gamal, I use NEC/WIRES by Brian Beezley, K6STI. It uses real ground also for computing feed point impedance. But it cannot handle antennas fed against ground, like Marconi's. Antenna Optimizer by K6STI can do that but assumes perfect ground for impedance calculation. Both programs also take care of wire losses. I see no more advertisements by K6STI so perhaps he moved out of the business. Together with PA0KSB I did some modelling of mobile antennas, PA0KSB using EZNEC and I used K6STI's software. We got the same answers but I have the impression that EZNEC is easier to use. If I had to buy now I would go for EZNEC. But mind that it does not work for the surface wave. See an earlier e-mail from maker W9EL to me that I have put on the reflector. Only the expensive professional versions of these sort of programs provide the surface wave. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26995 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 16:35:34 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 16:35:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 306 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 15:38:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 15:38:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118mOt-00000m-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:10:47 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.32] (helo=Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118mOo-000005-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:10:43 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.151.62]) by Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA4897; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:09:21 +0200 Message-ID: <002f01bed779$88e0c880$3e97b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Cc: "Ger van Went, PA0GER" , "Hans Peltzer, PA0HRP" , "Klaas Spaargaren, PA0KSB" , "Jan Hekkert, PA3HCD" Subject: LF: Signals measured Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:50:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE
 
For the second time I have been measuring signals received here.
 
The substitution method was used again: the output from the receiver is fed to a 35 Hz wide audio bandpass filter and then to headphones and an oscilloscope. The gain of the receiver is adjusted for a suitable deflection on the scope. Next a signal generator is substituted for the aerial and its output adjusted for the same deflection on the scope. The strength of the signal is then read from the attenuator and level meter of the sig gen. (HP 606B).
 
Date   Time   Call            Input receiver   Field strength    S-report
            UTC                            dBm             dB(uV)/m
 
23/7     1725    DCF39               -33                    65                 S 9+40 dB
 
23/7     1846    G4GVC              -84                    13.9              S 7
 
 
24/7      0225    DCF39               -37                    61                 S 9+36 dB (weaker than at daytime!)
 
24/7      0700    DCF39               -32                    66                 S 9 + 41 dB
 
24/7      0710    G4GVC              -83                    16                 S 7/8
 
24/7      0729    GM/G3YXM/P     -91                      6.8              S 6
 
24/7      1029     PA0VBR            -92                      5.9              S 6  (new station, his first QSO)
 
 
25/7       0703    DCF39               -32                     66                S 9 + 40 dB
 
25/7       0715    GM/G3YXM/P     -93                       4.9             S 5/6
 
25/7       0723    DL3FDO             -96                       1.2             S 5
 
25/7       0800    G4GVC               -84                     14                S 7
 
25/7       0845    G3KEV               -80                      18                S 8 
 
25/7       0903    OZ1KMR             -80                      18                S 8
 
25/7       0907    OZ5N                  -88                      10                S 6/7
 
25/7       0915    ON7YD                -83                      15                S 7/8
 
A pity I heard no more stations.
 
For the S-point calculation I used the IARU recommendation: S 9 = -73 dBm; 1 S-point = 6 dB
 
For the field strength I used the earlier found relation e/E = 2.83 in which e = voltage at the aerial terminal of the receiver in microvolt; E = field strength in V/m.
 
The accuracy gets worse as the signal received is nearer to the noise level. The noise also corrupts the picture on the scope screen and it becomes increasingly difficult to read the amplitude of the signal in a mixture of signal and noise.
 
The minimum discernible signal by ear and scope at my location is about -97 dBm (S 5 in 35 Hz bandwidth).
It means that if I hear a signal it must be at least S 5. It confirms my earlier finding that an S-report by ear on a weak signal tends to be pessimistic. For relatively strong signals reports by ear agree pretty well with measured ones.
 
In a QSO with Dave, GM/G3YXM/P, I gave him S5 by ear and measured S 6.
Andries, PA0VBR got S 4 by ear and I measured S 6.  
I must try to remember that for future QSO's.
 
Now on a entirely different subject.
 
Alan Melia in his e-mail of 18 July, 23.12 hrs, mentioned F5MLP as a station having difficulty in getting started on LF.
I think beginners like F5MLP would be well advised to buy the LF Experimenter's Source Book by Peter Dodd, G3LDO at the RSGB Shop (hope he can read English). It gives precisely the sort of information a beginner requires.
 
In my opinion a real amateur who likes to experiment should invest in Test Gear, Literature and a Personal Computer with suitable software.
 
By chance I came across a very good article: "PROPAGATION OF LONG RADIO WAVES" by J.A. Adcock, VK3ACA. It appeared in the Australian magazine Amateur Radio in 4 parts, June to September 1991.
The article provides a thorough treatment of the subject, starting off  with basic concepts like refraction, reflection and diffraction.
It answered many questions I had about propagation at LF.
 
I found the article at and downloaded it from our VERON website: http://www.veron.nl.
Next click on HAMRADIO and LF-BAND; you find the article under the heading ''Engelstalig". 
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
 
JO22GD
D.W. Rollema
V.d. Marckstraat 5
2352 RA Leiderdorp
The Netherlands
Tel. +31 71 589 27 34
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25193 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 21:37:59 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 21:37:59 +0100 Received: (qmail 25875 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 20:40:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 20:40:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118rMu-00027S-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:29:04 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mda.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.3] helo=mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118rMt-00027G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:29:03 +0100 Received: from [202.27.181.142] by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990726203131.NGDP956294.mta2-rme@[202.27.181.142]> for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 08:31:31 +1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <379CC40B.68FF@xtra.co.nz> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 08:24:43 +1200 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Ground systems and first tuning results References: <3798E3DD.2907@xtra.co.nz> <3799079F.172A@xtra.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Edited parts of what Hans-Joachim Brandt wrote: > For LF I can use either the house ground, which is also connected to the water > pipe net, or a radial ground made of 28 insulated litz wires with lengths > between 12 meters and 30 meters depending on the available space in that > direction. > > When working on this radial system and continuously measuring the feed point > resistance under resonance conditions, however, I could not confirm Bobs remark > that metal stakes at the far ends would give an improvement. At my QTH, I too did not notice any difference in "before" and "after" connection of outer end earth stakes (but I left them connected anyway :) >At least on my > insulated radial system the feed point resistance increased. Especially with > rather few radial wires the radial ground had been very sensitive against any > ground connection, including a simple earthstake connected to the centre of the > system. After the number of radials had approached 18 the earth stake > (just a few inches deep) connection to the centre could be tolerated, but never > the connection to the house ground. Once I have tried to elevate all my radials > about one foot from the ground: The feedpoint resistance remained the same, I > needed more inductivity in the variometer, and the sensitivity to any connection > to ground even increased! This sensitivity obviously depends of the capacity of > the insulated radial system to ground. I use buried bare copper radials. However, regarding above-the-gound insulated radials, like those mentioned, the explanation could be that the "return flux" finds it easier and lower loss to return as current to the antenna feedpoint via the copper, which being insulated from ground, has no possibility of contacting lossy soil. Further, when selected (tuned) inductors are used between the feedpoint and insulated radials, then it becomes even more attractive for the "return flux" to terminate on the wire rather than ground, as with "tuning" the insulated radials can be "-" potential when the driven antenna is "+" potential, and the soil somewhat neutral potential. I have seen some diagrams of commercial stations where the connection to actual earth is tapped from the central part of the loading coil, and apparently adjusted for least current in the connection to ground. Least "wasted current" to ground likely concurs with highest antenna efficiency with most current collected by the low resistance insulated radials. As already mentioned, being "antiphase", they can attract more flux than if they were neutral. This favours above-the-ground radials, and more complicated tuning, however in most domestic situations these type of radials become a severe nuisance for tripping over, cursing the designer, etc :( Cheers, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25652 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 21:41:07 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 21:41:07 +0100 Received: (qmail 26636 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 20:43:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 20:43:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118rMg-00027L-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:28:50 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mda.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.3] helo=mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118rMe-00027E-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:28:49 +0100 Received: from [202.27.181.142] by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990726203115.NGAT956294.mta2-rme@[202.27.181.142]> for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 08:31:15 +1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <379CBAFF.652B@xtra.co.nz> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 07:46:07 +1200 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Ground systems References: <3.0.1.16.19990726095047.2eff9c40@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > > At 09:51 24/07/99 +1200, ZL2CA wrote: > >Connecting the mains earth to the RF earth INCREASED THE RF RESISTANCE > >OF THE ANTENNA. > > I (and others) experienced the same. I think that this increase could be > explained by the fact that the 'returning' current coming from the > 'radial-earth' and from the 'mains-earth' have different phase, so simple > 'resistor-wise' paralleling of both earthsystems is not valid. If the > phase-difference between both currents is large enough the resulting total > current will be less than the current from 1 system only. Or said otherwise > the total resistance will increase instead of decrease. > Would be interesting if not only the currents in both earthsystems but also > their phasedifference could be measured. The measurements by Kevin ZL4MD and myself did not include checking for a phase difference in current going to each ground system. However, if there is a "reactive difference" it could easily be tuned out by adjusting the variometer, and there WAS NO CHANGE NEEDED IN TUNING for the test we conducted. The net resistance did increase (as already reported). So my conclusion is that even if there is a reactance shift, that could be "tuned out", but any increase in resistance necessarily lowers efficiency. As I commented earlier, this type of observation is likely only for an RF earth system that is already working very well (enough to show up what happens with non-ideal layout of what was hoped to be "radials"). In my case, with a suburban-sized property, even though I have an extensive ground radial system, with earth stakes at most outer ends, I notice a small increase in LF antenna current when I jumper the mains earth to the RF earth. This shows that in my case the connection of an additional earth lowers the net resistance of the antenna. Also I have not noticed that retuning the antenna is needed ie the change is resistive only. Note that I run all of my shack via a 5 kVA isolation transformer, including a multisection low pass filter on the mains side, in an attempt to keep mains noise out of my VLF/LF receiving gear, and I usually leave it that way during transmit. I will try to find time to do some phase checks on respective earth currents, when jumpering the isolation, but my expectation is that they would be in phase, or very close to in phase. Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1037 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 22:11:27 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 22:11:27 +0100 Received: (qmail 1721 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 21:14:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 21:14:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118rtQ-0002MS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:02:40 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ins22.netins.net ([167.142.225.22]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118rtP-0002MN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:02:39 +0100 Received: from netins.net (desm-24-36.dialup.netins.net [167.142.21.165]) by ins22.netins.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA10098 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:02:36 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <379CE90B.350F600A@netins.net> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:02:35 -0700 From: "Doc Gruis" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win95; U; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Ground systems References: <3.0.1.16.19990726095047.2eff9c40@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <379CBAFF.652B@xtra.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: I have been a bit out of the circuit the last couple of days regarding this thread. Yours seems a very thorough investigation. Please excuse me if I revert to my MW BC experience. At a number of installations the radials were tied together at a uniform distance from the tower. There may or may not be a ground steak at that point. Then the far ends of the radials are tied together again. The practice is copper wire and strap and certainly not insulated from ground. At one 2 tower daytime and 6 tower nighttime array (10KW on 940 KHz.) the bases of the towers was actually physically raised a few feet above the ground and then the radials went out from the base insulator at that height above the ground and thence down to the usual earthed arrangement. The consulting engineer thought that this stabilized the impedance and phase parameters of the towers. I seem to remember that these radials were bonded together by a strap at ground level. This following episode was told to me by an old time BC engineer about an early station located in the state of South Dakota. It was not at all unusual for stations, studios, anyhow, to be located on the top floor of some building. It was not so common for the transmitter to be there as well. But in this case, that is where the transmitter was indeed situated, perched proudly above the highest prominence on the roof of this particular hotel. The testing of the station went very well. It was in the middle of the night. But on the day of the official sign-on, and there were several dignitaries there, it was impossible to keep the station on the air because it was impossible to keep the antenna tower in tune. It had been mounted on the top of the elevator (hoist) shaft! And as the greeting crowd and other business started for the day the elevator acted like a very large tuning slug! Ahhhh! The best laid plans. For my "D" beacon 0n 175 KHz., I have found signal strength improved as more grounding is connected and I use power neutral, water system, and a couple of 8 foot rods. There are so many soil types here in Iowa that there is another factor to consider. Doc. _____________________________________________________________________________________ vernall wrote: > > Rik Strobbe wrote: > > > > At 09:51 24/07/99 +1200, ZL2CA wrote: > > >Connecting the mains earth to the RF earth INCREASED THE RF RESISTANCE > > >OF THE ANTENNA. > > SNIP... From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12084 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 23:21:35 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 23:21:35 +0100 Received: (qmail 10679 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 22:24:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 22:24:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118stZ-0002pU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:06:53 +0100 Received: from mcclure.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.31]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118stX-0002pP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:06:51 +0100 Received: from p136.lifford1.tinet.ie ([159.134.235.136] helo=beachwood.tinet.ie) by mcclure.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 118stT-0000D2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:06:47 +0100 Message-ID: <000901bed7b3$93308160$88eb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: re:136.150 beacon Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:09:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi David, tks for msg re my beacon. If the gear holds up, I will leave it on until Thursday or Friday. It's operation means I cannot listen to anything, so by that stage, I will probably pull the plug. I am looking forward to hearing from the group re this beacon. I have increased the output since I first put it on. Now running at 2 amps RF. Thanks again es best regards Finar EI0CF -----Original Message----- From: G0MRF@aol.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 26 July 1999 00:17 Subject: Re: LF: re:136.150 beacon >In a message dated 25/07/99 11:52:56 GMT Daylight Time, beachwood@tinet.ie >writes: > ><< BEACON ON 136.150 KHZ > I have put on air an LF beacon, running H24, on 136.150 khz. This is of a >temporary nature and the frequency can be shifted to accomodate those who >have a problem with their xtal freq transmitters or who have local reception >problems. > I would very much welcome reception reports on these transmissions, my >callsign, EI0CF, is repeated continuously. >> > >Sounds interesting, What is H24? > >Re communication: Not all operators have access to the internet to express >their thoughts on beacon operation. At this location G3KEV is frequently >heard around this frequency but as far as I know he is not on the net. >Similarly, I believe there is a beacon on in Germany which has been on for >weeks with low erp, in the middle of the band. >Is there a particular duration, or experiment planned. > >I'll have a listen for it after the weekend - When the neighbours switch off >the QRM. >Could be interesting to see the differences between daytime and night time >propagation. > >73 > > >David > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12909 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 23:26:40 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 23:26:40 +0100 Received: (qmail 11423 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 22:29:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 22:29:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118t4G-0002ty-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:17:56 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118t4F-0002tt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:17:55 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:17:50 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de (PC1087.dial.uni-kiel.de [134.245.108.7]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA26932 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:18:00 +0200 (MET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <379CDE89.73105CF4@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:17:45 +0200 From: "Peter W. Schnoor" Organization: University of Kiel, Clinic of Nephrology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: report 25. References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello Group, Moin Wolfgang, Koenig, Wolfgang wrote: > > heard OZ1KMR (519) calling cq at abt. 09:00 utc. Later in qso with DL3FDO > (529). > Tried both but no answer. > What is the Loc. of OZ1KZR ? I don't know but he's living at "Vamdrup", approx. 140km NNW from here (Kiel). (Please mail me direct if address is needed...) 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27663 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 01:39:24 +0100 Received: from mashie.force9.net (195.166.128.30) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 01:39:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 8122 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 22:26:09 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (212.172.148.70) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 22:26:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118so2-0002lp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:01:10 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from bbaer.muenster.de ([195.202.32.20] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118so2-0002lk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:01:10 +0100 Received: from [192.168.28.63] (mueamd-wan063.publikom.de [192.168.28.63]) by bbaer.muenster.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA16537 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:01:04 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:01:04 +0200 Message-ID: <199907262201.AAA16537@bbaer.muenster.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: welp@muenster.de Subject: Re: LF: Re: Who uses EZNEC To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-reply-to: <003101bed779$8c92d400$3e97b38f@w8k3f0> X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.10.06.22 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: On Mon, 26 Jul 1999, "Dick Rollema" wrote: >I see no more advertisements by K6STI so perhaps he moved out of the >business. Yes, you're correct. Due to extensive software piracy, K6STI stopped developing and selling his ham radio software (also RITT>, BITTY etc.) and moved out of that business. His former email address won't work either. 73, Oliver (DL9QJ, N3NSF) -- [Oliver Welp - welp@muenster.de welp@uni-muenster.de http://www.muenster.de/~welp/sb.htm Tel./Fax: +49-2533-7312] From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29847 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 02:17:27 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 02:17:27 +0100 Received: (qmail 25650 invoked from network); 26 Jul 1999 23:35:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jul 1999 23:35:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118u76-0003Y3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:24:56 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.148] helo=spamgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118u75-0003Xy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:24:55 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.2) id TAA26483 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:24:51 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:23:49 -0400 From: "Prof R. Jennison" Subject: Re: LF: Ground systems To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199907261924_MC2-7E5F-B5CB@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Just a minor comment on this much discussed topic. A few years ago, when experimenting with toroidal antennas on top band, I ran into the same problem. The local field from a toroid is entirely electric and so the effect of the lossy earth was very severe especially in the immediate vicinity of the antenna. After a bit of head scratching I isolated the output circuit from all local earths and used a counterpoise consisting of a single wire about 50cm above the ground terminating in a metal plate about 1 metre square, insulated at the same height. I am still using it. Some of you may have heard my toroid on top band and will know how well it works but if I connect the metal plate to ground the signal drops by at least three or four S points. The major losses usually occur in the immediate vicinity of the antenna, the propagation loss further away is still a problem but is less severe than that in the primary launching system. Now I must sadly give notice that I will have to resign from this net in the very near future. It was wonderful when the group was small but the traffic has grown so much that I cannot keep pace with my normal email and I regret that it must take priority. 73 to you all, Roger, G2AJV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7667 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 04:09:54 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 04:09:54 +0100 Received: (qmail 183 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 00:23:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 00:23:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118uhu-0003p0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:02:58 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118uht-0003ov-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:02:57 +0100 Received: from [62.172.94.58] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 118uhr-0004F3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:02:56 +0100 Message-ID: <000301bed7c3$1be5eb80$3a5eac3e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Earths, grounds, or counterpoises Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:47:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi all, I have followed some of the discussion on grounding recently and a few questions occur to me.. Bearing in mind that most seem to be feeding their aerials with 50ohm coax ...... a) what is the effect on the 'balance' at the end of the coax of having two ground systems within the near field of the aerial? Does it matter?Do you link couple to the tuning coil? b) does it make a difference if you use a balanced feed? Does anyone? I am wondering whether currents induced in the braid could be problem. Anyone tried a separate 'shielding' over the coax? What was it connected to? Extra radials/earth systems don't seem to help. As the parasitic elements of a yagi sit in the near field of the radiating element, and the length of these elements determines the phase of the currents induced in them ..... a)Is it possible that the currents induced particularly in short radials will differ in phase with the length and the orientation of the radials.? So making addition complex. b) has anyone tried to measure the current induced in the radials? a clip-on RF ammeter should read something, though I am not sure whether it would be necessarily meaningfull (I'm a "make loadsa measurements first and work out what it means afterwards" guy) c) Is 'longer' better than adding more shorter 'radials'? d) Les Moxon in his book "HF Antennas for all locations" covers the topic of 'compressed' radials (or counterpoises) ....resonating short radials with a coil or using a helical element. Has anyone attempted this? I suppose it should get more current flowing in the radials, which ought to affect the signal, or is it a bodge to let the coax see something more reasonable. A local friend of mine has achieved interesting results by feeding a counterpoise through an 'ATU' on 80m.(at least it got the RF out of the upstairs shack). I'm not really expecting answers, these are just questions that occur to me. Mains Earths (grounds) Are we being too naive in believeing the mains ground to be a good one? I have overhead local distribution here (for the Antipodeans, East Anglia is the UKs outback!) My mains earth in a piece of 1inch (25mm) diam copper pipe 3feet (1m) long. There is no strapping to the water pipes as most are now plasic the cast-iron having given up the struggle a few years ago. In the UK it is not the practice to strap the Neutral to earth at the consumer premises (except where there is PME?). I believe (from a radio amateur working for the local supply company) that great efforts are made to get a good ground at the local transformer (sub-station) and the target is 1ohm (measured at 50Hz of course). I remember doing a check on a 5foot copper rod in my sandy ground, away from the house where the soil is slightly more moist and getting a value of about 80ohms. The technique (don't try this at home children!) was to connect one end of a current limiting resistor (a 1kW electic fire bar) to the 'Live' side ('Phase' in some countries, I believe) and the other to the radio 'ground' system. A high impedance Alternating Voltmeter was then used to measure the voltage between the ground system and the Neutral line. Knowing the current going into the 'earth' (Vmains-Vneutral)/R and the voltdrop (Vneutral) caused by that flowing into the ground resistance, you get a value for the earth resistance. Since the Neutral is strapped to a good ground at the sub-station, the Neutral acts as a 'sense' wire (high impedance is necessary so there is no volt drop on the neutral wire resistance.) Using this technique I got down to 7ohms with three 5foot (1.5m) stakes joined by a length of 0.25in (6mm) copper bussbar buried about 6in (15cm) down. This doesn't work if you have an RLCB tripping on 'unbalance' condition, and an isolating transformer will be needed. These values, I believe, would have no relation to losses at 136kHz, but it would be interesting to compare them. It could also be a problem if you have PME, so do be careful. I was warned that the only trouble with having a really low resistance earth was that if a neighbour had a Neutral fault you would take all his fault current. I believe a least one telephone exchange, adjacent to a substation, suffered that problem, and was upgraded long before planned! This may be a good reason for keeping earth separate! A bit long I'm afraid but hope its of interest/use 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17649 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 04:39:53 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 04:39:53 +0100 Received: (qmail 155 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 00:23:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 00:23:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118uhs-0003ot-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:02:56 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 118uhs-0003oo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:02:56 +0100 Received: from [62.172.94.58] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 118uhq-0004F3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:02:54 +0100 Message-ID: <000201bed7c3$1aea2660$3a5eac3e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: PA0SE and LF sourcebook Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:37:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi Dick, yes that's what I have done, ( he does read English well....blush blush) as well as strongly advising him to either access the net or 'steal' some time from a friend so he can look at what is available on a number of admirably set up web pages. I think this kind of source material will help to keep the enthusiasm alive (Keep it up fellas!) when perhaps there are no local enthusiasts to discuss your problems with over a convivial drinkat the local pub. I will pass on via Packet the comments about long wires, tuning and earth resistance that have been aired recently. Fascinating measurements Dick, I must go back and read those again. Though I really wonder what use standards are when the noise is S5.....I suppose these were formulated for receive stations listening to big commercial signals like DCF39, or for quieter HF bands. Great stuff 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22011 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 08:50:07 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 08:50:07 +0100 Received: (qmail 30345 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 07:52:47 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 07:52:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1191p9-0006qS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 08:38:55 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1191p7-0006qK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 08:38:53 +0100 Received: from walter (userb571.uk.uudial.com [193.149.83.46]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA02569 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 08:34:31 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <199907270734.IAA02569@fm215.facility.pipex.com> X-Sender: blanch@mailhost.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 08:39:08 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: EI0CF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello again Finbar, Results of first H24 monitoring : EI0CF always there; bit of fading around dawn today; otherwise quite steady. Main problem yesterday was QRN in the late afternoon/evening which although not unusually high was enough to make copy very difficult. According to satpix and wx charts was mainly coming from Italy/Bulgaria area. Incidentally, Tory Is DGPS (313.5) usually decodable here, QRN permitting. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2063 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 09:43:19 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 09:43:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 8772 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 08:45:59 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 08:45:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1192cT-0007Cw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:29:53 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1192cR-0007Cr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:29:52 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA10347 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:35:41 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990727101518.2c5ff802@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:15:18 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: EI0CF In-reply-to: <199907270734.IAA02569@fm215.facility.pipex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: I tried to copy the EI0CF beacon last nigt and this morning but no copy. Have to add that QRN was vey bad last night and also QRM level at the lower end of the band is about 10dB higher than above 136.5kHz. Tonight I will try to find the beacon using Spectogram. 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14488 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 10:29:18 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 10:29:18 +0100 Received: (qmail 19779 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 09:31:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 09:31:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1193AJ-0007SW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:04:51 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.31] (helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1193AI-0007S9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:04:50 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.150.34]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA2AF5 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:03:31 +0200 Message-ID: <002a01bed80f$9a23d060$2296b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: PA0SE and LF sourcebook Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:58:38 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: >From PA0SE Alan Melia wrote: . >Fascinating measurements Dick, I must go back and read those again. Though I >really wonder what use standards are when the noise is S5.....I suppose >these were formulated for receive stations listening to big commercial >signals like DCF39, or for quieter HF bands. What I called noise is my local noise level, which is certainly not like white noise. it originates from LORAN and unidentified sources. The IARU-recommendation was certainly not meant for the lF-band; that did not exist when it was made. Even on the amateur HF-bands the noise level is almost always over S2 or so. At my location on 80 m daytime noise is about S4. On 40 m a bit lower. I suspect that the noise on 136 kHz at my QTH is above avarage. I think it must be lower at quite a few stations I have worked. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26625 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 11:05:36 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 11:05:36 +0100 Received: (qmail 26170 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 10:08:17 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 10:08:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1193yd-0007ny-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:56:51 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1193yb-0007nm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:56:49 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA09445 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:02:37 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990727115808.2d4fe51e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:58:08 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: PA0SE and LF sourcebook In-reply-to: <002a01bed80f$9a23d060$2296b38f@w8k3f0> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: At 10:58 27/07/99 +0200, PA0SE wrote: >Even on the amateur HF-bands the noise level is almost always over S2 or so. >At my location on 80 m daytime noise is about S4. On 40 m a bit lower. > >I suspect that the noise on 136 kHz at my QTH is above avarage. I think it >must be lower at quite a few stations I have worked. At my QTH noise is rather low, with the 'big' TX-antenna that is located about 30m from the house. Few weeks ago I tested a small loopantenna indoor and noise was awfull. The 1 meter loop produced about 6dB more noise level than the big outdoor vertical and signals were about 20dB down on the indoor loop. So the overall S/N ratio was at about 26dB worse. Placing the loop in the back yard at about 25m from the house resulted in the same S/N on loop and vertical. My tip : try to place your RX-antenna as far away as possible from 'civilisation' and use good coax between antenna and RX. I have bad experience with the shielding of cheap RG58. 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5934 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 11:20:13 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 11:20:13 +0100 Received: (qmail 28202 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 10:22:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 10:22:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1194B9-0007tS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:09:47 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1194B8-0007tN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:09:47 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:09:00 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de ([194.94.166.130]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA26970 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:09:10 +0200 (MET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <379D84AE.B9B31C40@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:06:38 +0200 From: "P. W. Schnoor" Organization: Clinic of Nephrology, University of Kiel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586) X-Accept-Language: de, en To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: EI0CF-Beacon... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello Group, Nothing to hear/see from EI0CF beacon even with FFT. May be that the signal is covered by LORAN-C lines which are very dense around 136.15 kHz =:( Will try it again this evening or tomorrow early in the morning. 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11025 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 13:29:54 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 13:29:54 +0100 Received: (qmail 23620 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 12:32:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 12:32:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1196EV-0000Jn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:21:23 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ah-img-4.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.158] helo=hpamgaad.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1196EU-0000Jf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:21:22 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaad.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.6) id IAA19991 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 08:20:50 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 08:19:52 -0400 From: "Holger 'Geri', DK8KW" Subject: LF: EI0CF-Beacon/NIL To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199907270820_MC2-7E67-BD42@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello Lowfers, sorry to report, but also from here (JO52BH) no reception of EI0CF yet. Tried with Spectrogram early this morning with very low noise level; I could see all the LORAN lines that Peter, DF3LP refers to, which is a good sign for a low noise level at my QTH but no trace of your signal, Finbar. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1196 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 16:22:12 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 16:22:12 +0100 Received: (qmail 335 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 15:24:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 15:24:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1198r7-0001YS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:09:25 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.32] (helo=Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1198r5-0001YI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:09:24 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.150.240]) by Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAB43C4 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:08:05 +0200 Message-ID: <001901bed842$8833f460$f096b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: PA0SE and LF sourcebook Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:03:27 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: >From PA0SE Rik, ON7YD wrote > >At my QTH noise is rather low, with the 'big' TX-antenna that is located >about 30m from the house. Few weeks ago I tested a small loopantenna indoor >and noise was awfull. The 1 meter loop produced about 6dB more noise level >than the big outdoor vertical and signals were about 20dB down on the >indoor loop. >So the overall S/N ratio was at about 26dB worse. >Placing the loop in the back yard at about 25m from the house resulted in >the same S/N on loop and vertical. > >My tip : try to place your RX-antenna as far away as possible from >'civilisation' and use good coax between antenna and RX. I have bad >experience with the shielding of cheap RG58. That confirms my experience with "magnetic" antennas. I have used both a frame-type antenna and an active ferrite loopstick antenna in the shack and at the back of he garden. That is no more than 10 m from the house. The S/N ratio in both cases was worse than with the transmitting antenna for reception. I also tried a small active electric antenna at the back of the garden. No good either. The only thing left I could try is a noise cancelling system with a second antenna that picks up mainly noise which is then balanced against the noise from the main antenna. It is reported to work fine in case of a single interfering signal. But I'm rather pessimistic about the result in case of noise coming from many different sources. Anyone having experience with noise cancelling systems in this respect? 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25251 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 19:17:18 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 19:17:18 +0100 Received: (qmail 13800 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 18:20:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 18:20:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119BSW-0002gm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 18:56:12 +0100 Received: from mail5.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119BST-0002gh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 18:56:10 +0100 Received: from modem-90.gadolinium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.31.218] helo=default) by mail5.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 119BSR-0008Ty-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 18:56:08 +0100 Message-ID: <000001bed859$60ca1d20$da1f883e@default> From: "wireless" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000301bed7c3$1be5eb80$3a5eac3e@default> Subject: LF: Spectrogram query Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 18:53:27 +0100 Organization: T@ylor Training MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: No one came back on my Spectrogram comment yesterday - does anyone use 5.08 and what settings have you found best for 10 sec dots? 73 John Taylor G0AKN earth@wireless.freeserve.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2340 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 19:43:25 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 19:43:25 +0100 Received: (qmail 20494 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 18:46:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 18:46:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119Bua-0002uX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:25:12 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119BuX-0002uS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:25:11 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id TAA18772 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:25:04 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <1999072719350468199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:35:04 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: Re: LF: Who uses EZNEC Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit from "Soegiono, Gamal" > does anyone of you have experience with EZNEC modelling software? Yes, I do > As far as I know, this is the only software (except for the original but > cumbersome NEC) capable of modelling the ground influence on > antenna feedpoint Impedance as well as on far field diagram AND > incorporating the conductor conductivity. > Most other programs account for ground influence on far field diagram, > but not on feed impedance, conductor losses are omitted. EZNEC does most of these things quite well, see page 6.9 of 'The LF Experimenter's Source Book' on Computer Modelling of LF Antennas > It might be worthwhile to simulate antenna arrangements with EZNEC, > using an elevated Radial System. Radials need not have resonant > length, but might be "lengthened" by a radial loading coil in addition > to the vertical radiator's loading coil. EZNEC cannot model horizontal wires that are closer than .02 wavelengths from the ground so modelling elevated radials could present a difficulty. As elevated radials are impractical for most of us there seem little point of modelling them. EZNEC is also useful for modelling the actual radiated power from the antenna and was used in the first round of discussions on 'ERP' (about 14 months ago). The results correlated well with measured signal strengths. I first started using K6STI's MN in 1989, which was described in the first edition of the Antenna Experimenter's Guide. I then moved to ELNEC, and finally EZNEC, which was described in the second edition of the Antenna Experimenter's Guide. In fact I felt so confident of modelling LF antennas using EZNEC that I gave a presentation at the LF workshop of the LF Convention last October. I also modelled many of the LF group's antennas and used them for material at the HF Convention. 'The LF Experimenter's Source Book' and 'The Antenna Experimenter's Guide' are available from the RSGB bookshop. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7998 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 20:01:51 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 20:01:51 +0100 Received: (qmail 25318 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 19:04:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 19:04:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119CLt-00037J-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:53:25 +0100 Received: from cask.force9.net ([195.166.128.29]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119CLs-000378-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:53:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 9113 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 18:53:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO prstesv1) (195.166.144.50) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 18:53:21 -0000 Message-ID: <004001bed861$bddc20a0$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: OE activity Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:52:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Dear all. Heinz, OE5EEP informs me that he and some others will put on a station on the 136 band on Saturday 31st July from 1100 hrs. No more info yet. 73, Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8352 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 20:02:44 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 20:02:44 +0100 Received: (qmail 25514 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 19:05:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 19:05:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119CLs-00037F-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:53:24 +0100 Received: from cask.force9.net ([195.166.128.29]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119CLr-000377-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:53:23 +0100 Received: (qmail 9103 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 18:53:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO prstesv1) (195.166.144.50) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 18:53:20 -0000 Message-ID: <003f01bed861$bd4510c0$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Ground systems Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:50:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Dear all. In my experience, as in all amateur installations, you have to experiment to get the best result! At home in the city, on good clay soil, earth stakes didn't seem to help much but radials did. The greatest help was to bond all the incoming service pipes, water, gas and mains earth (all underground) together. In Scotland the best results were obtained by running as many surface wires as I could to wire fences around the area, earth stakes achieved absolutely nothing in the poor soil. The ultimate aim is to maximise the antenna current by any means.... more power Igor! 73, Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27643 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 22:24:47 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 22:24:47 +0100 Received: (qmail 22493 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 21:27:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 21:27:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119EW3-00044M-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 22:12:03 +0100 Received: from kodos.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.29]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119EW2-00044H-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 22:12:02 +0100 Received: from p138.lifford1.tinet.ie ([159.134.235.138] helo=beachwood.tinet.ie) by kodos.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 119EVx-0002q7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 22:11:58 +0100 Message-ID: <000201bed875$1767bb80$8aeb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: re: H24 Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:06:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi DAVID/G0MRF,
                            I forgot to explain what  H24 is.  Well we use it in marine radio communication to denote say  a station which is on for  24 hours a day. Like my own station where I work, Malin Head Radio, it is operational  24 hour's a day. It was common for ship station's with say one Radio Officer to be  H8, denoting that the R/O was on watch  for 8 hours only.
As you mentioned, it will be very interesting to see what effects daytime and nighttime operation have on the beacon signal and whether there are any effects at dawn or dusk. I have been checking the transmitter and the heatsink is quite cool, however I had to fit a cooling fan to the  twin toroidal transformers in the power supply, they were getting quite hot. An old army fan was installed and now keeps the PSU nice and cool. I did not want to use the normal PSU, since I usually use it via a Variac, to run it up to full power and check on settings before operating at full bore. It supplies  100 volts off load, with key down it drops to 75 volts, to the Mosfets. That little lot gives me  3.3 amps antenna current, but I dare not leave that set up unattended  or I would have lots of blown equipment.
Best regards and let me know how you get on with the reception on 136.150 khz
73's Finbar  EI0CF
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1448 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 01:52:09 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 01:52:09 +0100 Received: (qmail 9204 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 23:31:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 23:31:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119GY9-0005CG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 00:22:21 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mailout04.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119GY8-0005C6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 00:22:20 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fwd08.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.168]) by mailout04.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 119GY6-0008Oz-00; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 01:22:18 +0200 Received: (087321565-0001(btxid)@[193.158.171.64]) by fwd08.btx.dtag.de id ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 01:22:09 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 01:22:09 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.19990726095047.2eff9c40@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <379CBAFF.652B@xtra.co.nz> <379CE90B.350F600A@netins.net> Subject: Re: LF: Ground systems X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-online.de From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Doc Gruis schrieb: > This following episode was told to me by an old time BC engineer about > an early station located in the state of South Dakota. > > It was not at all unusual for stations, studios, anyhow, to be located > on the top floor of some building. It was not so common for the > transmitter to be there as well. But in this case, that is where the > transmitter was indeed situated, perched proudly above the highest > prominence on the roof of this particular hotel. > > The testing of the station went very well. It was in the middle of the > night. > > But on the day of the official sign-on, and there were several > dignitaries there, it was impossible to keep the station on the air > because it was impossible to keep the antenna tower in tune. > > It had been mounted on the top of the elevator (hoist) shaft! And as > the greeting crowd and other business started for the day the elevator > acted like a very large tuning slug! This reminds me of a problem I had encountered when still living in Munich, with much restricted space for antennas. For all HF bands I just had a 21 meters end-fed wire available, with a wire counterpoise in the loft, also connected to the house ground and the TV antenna mast. On 160 meters I had to employ base loading, but I wondered that the VSWR often was higher than normal, until I discovered that optimum VSWR depended on how many apparatus I had connected to the mains in my shack (which had been just below the loft), thus varying the number of radials for 160 meters! To cure this problem, I had to insulate the counterpoise from the house ground and TV-mast for RF, using a big toroid choke, and to feed the antenna for 160 meters via a 1:1 separation transformer. Now the 160 meter antenna may have looked like an asymmetrical dipole, but the tuned section had to use the insulated counterpoise only as the other antenna end. Tuning of the antenna now had been entirely different from the previous setup, but the mains wires remained neutral. /3 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1598 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 01:54:52 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 01:54:52 +0100 Received: (qmail 9233 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 23:31:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 23:31:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119GYA-0005CI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 00:22:22 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mailout05.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.153]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119GY8-0005C7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 00:22:20 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fwd08.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.168]) by mailout05.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 119GY6-0005xS-00; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 01:22:18 +0200 Received: (087321565-0001(btxid)@[193.158.171.64]) by fwd08.btx.dtag.de id ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 01:22:10 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 01:22:10 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.19990727115808.2d4fe51e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: Re: LF: Loops indoor and outdoor X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-online.de From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Rik Strobbe schrieb: > Few weeks ago I tested a small loopantenna indoor > and noise was awfull. The 1 meter loop produced about 6dB more noise level > than the big outdoor vertical and signals were about 20dB down on the > indoor loop. > So the overall S/N ratio was at about 26dB worse. > Placing the loop in the back yard at about 25m from the house resulted in > the same S/N on loop and vertical. I have not found time to try such a loop, but this is interesting and pleasing me. I have just tried an LF broadacast ferrite rod aerial and found it not sufficiently sensitive. But with this ferrite rod I discovered that in my home brew equipment voltage stabilizers such as 78LXX produce a noise at the input side if this is not blocked by a good 6,8 MFD or more. This noise may be radiated from the supply cable leading to another power supply and increase indoor noise. But when studying the QSL card of HB9DCE, he is mentioning a vertical loop antenna with three turns and a circumference of 50 meters! So You still have to do a lot to catch up with him. > My tip : try to place your RX-antenna as far away as possible from > 'civilisation' and use good coax between antenna and RX. I have bad > experience with the shielding of cheap RG58. ZL2CA also has emphasized: Note that I run all of my shack via a 5 kVA isolation transformer, including a multisection low pass filter on the mains side, in an attempt to keep mains noise out of my VLF/LF receiving gear. 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16950 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 04:03:22 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 04:03:22 +0100 Received: (qmail 13280 invoked from network); 27 Jul 1999 23:55:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jul 1999 23:55:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119Gup-0005Mt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 00:45:47 +0100 Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl ([194.109.127.48]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119Guo-0005Mo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 00:45:46 +0100 Received: from v3q4v1 (dc2-isdn1731.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.154.195]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA19339 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 01:45:44 +0200 (CEST) From: "M. Sanders" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Spectrogram query Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 01:43:26 +0200 Message-ID: <000201bed889$d2b5c6c0$c39a6dc2@v3q4v1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <000001bed859$60ca1d20$da1f883e@default> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Dear John and Lowfers, Last weekend I was still using 5.01 but i have tried to look at Finbar, EI0CF's signal this morning and made a recording with 5.08. I used the same settings in 5.08 as in 5.01. There are some improvements in the new version but changing the settings dit not give better results. I could see a signal going slowly up and down a few Herz around 136.150, may be a VFO/TX but nothing audible (may be QRS CW ID for beacons is an improvement?). The Loran lines where perfectly visible as well as natural radio signalas running diagonally downward on the screen. DSP processing of the WAV recordings did not provide a positive ID on Finbar's call sign so I am still in the dark. The settings are listed on my site at: http://www.xs4all.nl/~misan/gram50+2.htm. By choosing colours in three bands the eye can separate the signals into10dB bands with 2.5dB brightness levels. This helps identifying signals. The general idea is to give stronger signals in a 10 dB band a lighter colour. The traditional rainbow spectrum and the shaded grey or blue spectrums represent exactly the same information but I look at it like fishing in a pond. The strong signals have red to yellow colours and can be compared to ducks floating on top of the water. The blue lines represent a relative signal bandwith -40 to -50dB. This band acts like the water surface. I adjust the gain so all Loran-C lines show as blue dotted lines with a few red dots in the peaks. The green bands are signals with a relative strenght -50 to -60 dB. When listening to a WAV file recording it is interesting to change the blue colours temporarily in to black. The reslult is like putting on sunglasses and then looking at the fishes down on the bottom of the pond without light reflections and ripples from the surface obscuring the sight. The spectogram on my site from DF3LP's signals show him to be a 'fat-duck' (his signal is audible 10dB or more above noise level!). Toni, HB9ASB's signals are slightly above the noise level. To show his call sign better in the picture the gain was increased and thus shifting the spectrum to red/yellow. When AGC is turned on the average level can be stabilised between light blue and vivid red. Loran-lines look now like thin and straight lines. When there is fading (QSB) wtihin de AGC range the signals do not change their colour making it easier to keep track one perticular signal. For DX 'fishing' and when listening close to strong signals no AGC should be used of course. Best 73's and good luck on LF, Michael Sanders, PA3BSH mailto:pa3bsh@amsat.org > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]namens > wireless > Verzonden: dinsdag 27 juli 1999 19:53 > Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Onderwerp: LF: Spectrogram query > > > No one came back on my Spectrogram comment yesterday - does > anyone use 5.08 > and what settings have you found best for 10 sec dots? > > 73 > John Taylor G0AKN > earth@wireless.freeserve.co.uk > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7053 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 08:17:44 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 08:17:44 +0100 Received: (qmail 10074 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 07:20:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 07:20:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119Ngw-0008LC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 07:59:54 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ([195.186.1.75]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119Ngv-0008Kk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 07:59:53 +0100 Received: from phonakcom.ch ([195.186.13.121]) by bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ( with ESMTP id AAA139C for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 08:59:43 +0200 Message-ID: <379EADCF.8C4F827D@phonakcom.ch> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:14:23 +0200 From: "Toni Baertschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Spectrogram query References: <000301bed7c3$1be5eb80$3a5eac3e@default> <000001bed859$60ca1d20$da1f883e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: >From HB9ASB, JN36pt Hello John, I'm still testing the new 5.08 Version. At a first glance it seems that I can still read slow CW when this is not possible on the old version (4.2.6.5)! I'm using the same settings (for 3sec dots): 5k5/16bit/Mono, 30dB, 200ms, 16384 points, 360-446 Hz Band, 4-8 times spec average, no color mods. For 10s dots I would just set the time to 600-800ms. The signal comes from the Harris RF599 (BFO -400Hz, BW 250Hz -6dB, 5ms AGC, line out), passes the Timewave DSP599zx (400Hz center, BW 80Hz -3dB, AGC on, noise reduction on, line out) into a Dell Laptop 300MHz P-II with 64MRAM. 73 de Toni PS. Version 5.0 did not work properly with my setup. wireless schrieb: > > No one came back on my Spectrogram comment yesterday - does anyone use 5.08 > and what settings have you found best for 10 sec dots? > > 73 > John Taylor G0AKN > earth@wireless.freeserve.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27294 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 08:55:12 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 08:55:12 +0100 Received: (qmail 30330 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 07:57:57 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 07:57:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119ORu-00008F-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 08:48:26 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119ORt-00008A-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 08:48:25 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA04457 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:54:16 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990728094943.080f2266@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:49:43 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: EI0CF In-reply-to: <004001bed861$bddc20a0$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Noting heard / seen from EI0CF on 136150 last night and this morning. Rather strange as I heard Finbar many times before with very good signal. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16838 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 09:21:26 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 09:21:26 +0100 Received: (qmail 10615 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 08:24:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 08:24:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119Ol3-0000IG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:08:13 +0100 Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119Ol2-0000IB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:08:12 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Wed, 28 Jul 1999 10:07:17 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de ([194.94.166.130]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA22140 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 10:07:26 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <379EB99F.DC8982F2@nephro.uni-kiel.de> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 10:04:47 +0200 From: "P. W. Schnoor" Organization: Clinic of Nephrology, University of Kiel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586) X-Accept-Language: de, en To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: EI0CF References: <3.0.1.16.19990728094943.080f2266@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello, Rik Strobbe wrote: > > Noting heard / seen from EI0CF on 136150 last night and this morning. > Rather strange as I heard Finbar many times before with very good signal. I agree! Last night I was troubled by very high QRN level. This morning the band sounded rather clear but nothing heared/seen from EI0CF beacon. :( 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22447 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 09:30:40 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 09:30:40 +0100 Received: (qmail 14846 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 08:33:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 08:33:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119Ovv-0000NF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:19:27 +0100 Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119Ovu-0000NA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:19:26 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #34) id 119Ppu-0002Qp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:17:18 +0000 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:15:02 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:17:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Spectrogram query In-reply-to: <000001bed859$60ca1d20$da1f883e@default> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: G90AKN wrote: > No one came back on my Spectrogram comment yesterday - does anyone use 5.08 > and what settings have you found best for 10 sec dots? > John, I will download 5.08 and test it as soon as possible (but desperately busy this time of year editing the RSGB Yearbook). Will let you know the results. I really liked the facility to define colours in the early version of 5, but found it generally much less useful than 4.2.6. 73 Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26640 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 09:37:27 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 09:37:27 +0100 Received: (qmail 18641 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 08:40:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 08:40:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119P5o-0000S9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:29:40 +0100 Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119P5m-0000S3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:29:38 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #34) id 119Pzj-0002xo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:27:28 +0000 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:26:13 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:28:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Ground systems In-reply-to: <003f01bed861$bd4510c0$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: G3YXM wrote: > In my experience, as in all amateur installations, you have to experiment to > get the best result! At home in the city, on good clay soil, earth stakes > didn't seem to help much but radials did. The greatest help was to bond all > the incoming service pipes, water, gas and mains earth (all underground) > together. > In Scotland the best results were obtained by running as many surface wires > as I could to wire fences around the area, earth stakes achieved absolutely > nothing in the poor soil. My experience is that earth stakes outperformed my insulated and buried radial system by a long way. The most successful stake is about 10m away from the base of the vertical, slightly lower than it (sloping site) and away from the horizontal section of the inverted- L. A wire to a buried water tank under the horizontal section does nothing. I agree with whoever said that it is possible to get a real improvement, even if the current does not alter - useful to monitor the received signal when adding new radials. By contrast, when operating portable in south-west Wales at a site 0.5km from the sea and beside a river, I found that a single 100m insulated radial lying on the ground worked much better than any earth stakes I could bury. Obviously when portable it is possible to get more wire out than at a suburban location. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18607 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 11:25:09 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 11:25:09 +0100 Received: (qmail 22065 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 10:27:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 10:27:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119QkC-0001JJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 11:15:28 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226] helo=gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119QkA-0001JD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 11:15:26 +0100 Received: by gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id MAA14096; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:16:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from somewhere by smtpxd X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Message-ID: From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" To: "'rsgb_lf_group'" Subject: LF: EI0CF - Beacon Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:06:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hallo Group, Tried to hear Finbar´s beacon. But there was only noise. Did it send 27. evening and 28 morning? What is the CW-speed of his transmission? 73 Wolf DL1SAN From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4816 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 12:34:17 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 12:34:17 +0100 Received: (qmail 5406 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 11:37:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 11:37:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119RlM-0001kW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:20:44 +0100 Received: from cask.force9.net ([195.166.128.29]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119RlL-0001kR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:20:43 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 26802 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 11:20:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO .f9.co.uk) (195.166.128.79) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 11:20:41 -0000 From: picks@picks.f9.co.uk Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:20:41 +0100 (BST) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: EI0CF X-Mailer: PlusNet Technologies WebMail v.2 X-URL: http://portal.f9.net.uk/ Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Dear Peter, Rik and others I make Finbar's frequency 136.2 rather than 136.15. Would this be the explanation? His signal is 569 with me sending just a callsign at about 5wpm with big gaps. Dave G3YXM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15207 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 13:22:33 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 13:22:33 +0100 Received: (qmail 15842 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 12:25:19 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 12:25:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119SbB-00027T-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 13:14:17 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119SbA-00027O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 13:14:16 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA10306 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:20:01 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990728141529.12472660@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:15:29 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: EI0CF In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: At 12:20 28/07/99 +0100, you wrote: >Dear Peter, Rik and others > >I make Finbar's frequency 136.2 rather than 136.15. Would this be the explanation? His signal is 569 with me sending just a callsign at about 5wpm with big gaps. > >Dave G3YXM > > I checked 136.1 to 136.3 with spectogram and saw no 'straight lines'. To Dave : what signalstrengths did you get from Finbar before (some months ago) I often heard him 10 to 20dB S/N, so even is he is running less power than normal I should at least 'see' him with Spectogram. As said before, including some 10 sec. dashes (separated about 3 sec.) every 2 or 3 minutes would make identification with Spectogram much easier. Regarding GM3YXM/P : thanks for the nice QSO, I could hear you all weekend but with remarkable signalstrength variations (between 549 and 329). Maybe you did some antenna-tests. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28128 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 16:11:29 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 16:11:29 +0100 Received: (qmail 19691 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 15:14:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 15:14:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119V5j-0003Fo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:53:59 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119V5g-0003Fj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:53:56 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Wed, 28 Jul 1999 16:53:41 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de (PC1088.dial.uni-kiel.de [134.245.108.8]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA27622 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 16:53:51 +0200 (MET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <379F196F.6944A0E4@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 16:53:35 +0200 From: "Peter W. Schnoor" Organization: University of Kiel, Clinic of Nephrology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: EI0CF References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello Group, Hi Dave Dave wrote: > I make Finbar's frequency 136.2 rather than 136.15. Would this be the explanation? His signal is 569 with me sending just a callsign at about 5wpm with big gaps. I'm observing a faint blurred line with approx. 14 sec. gaps at 14:15z right on 136.2 kHz. ??? 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6826 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 18:44:05 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 18:44:05 +0100 Received: (qmail 15458 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 17:46:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 17:46:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119Xa6-0004PB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:33:30 +0100 Received: from cask.force9.net ([195.166.128.29]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119Xa5-0004P6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:33:29 +0100 Received: (qmail 15889 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 17:33:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO prstesv1) (212.56.110.141) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 17:33:17 -0000 Message-ID: <003501bed91f$b95324c0$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: EI0CF Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:23:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Rik, Finbar's beacon is about 6dB down on his maximum signal here. >To Dave : what signalstrengths did you get from Finbar before (some months >ago) >I often heard him 10 to 20dB S/N, so even is he is running less power than >normal I should at least 'see' him with Spectogram. > I didn't vary the operating conditions since Friday evening so the band must have been changing. > >Regarding GM3YXM/P : thanks for the nice QSO, I could hear you all weekend >but with remarkable signalstrength variations (between 549 and 329). Maybe >you did some antenna-tests. I would certainly like to try the "meander" aerial mentioned in technical topics in the Rad Com this month. It consists of a quarter wave of wire, grounded at one end, running up and down between a high support line and one near the ground until the whole length is used up. This "curtain" is then folded round into a circular form looking like a tall thin bird-cage. A gamma feed is used at one of the low points near the feed end. Sadly, I only had 300mtrs of wire with me! Perhaps next time.... Dave 'YXM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5196 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 20:37:26 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 20:37:26 +0100 Received: (qmail 6880 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 19:40:15 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 19:40:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119ZOp-0005FT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 20:29:59 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119ZOo-0005FK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 20:29:58 +0100 Received: from walter (userb313.uk.uudial.com [193.149.82.42]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA00091 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 20:25:35 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <199907281925.UAA00091@fm215.facility.pipex.com> X-Sender: blanch@mailhost.pncl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 20:30:22 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: EI0CF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: This evening (Weds 28th) perfectly clear here (IO91UF) behind the QRN - continuous sending at 5 wpm or so - no gaps. Monday evening the QRN was pretty bad, but not so bad this evening - quite a few seconds between crashes. Could not say what Tuesday was like - I was out. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8614 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 23:11:50 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 23:11:50 +0100 Received: (qmail 32157 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 22:14:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 22:14:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119bQ6-00064K-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 22:39:26 +0100 Received: from brockman.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.30]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119bQ4-00064F-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 22:39:25 +0100 Received: from p151.lifford1.tinet.ie ([159.134.235.151] helo=beachwood.tinet.ie) by brockman.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 119bQ1-00079H-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 22:39:21 +0100 Message-ID: <002f01bed942$158291a0$97eb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: re: Beacon FREQ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 22:42:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
With regard to my Beacon on 136 khz, due to being QRL at work I have not had a chance to readjust the beacon freq to 136.150 khz. Would those listening for it note the freq measured by  Dave  G3YXM, who says its on  136.200 khz.
Sorry for the inconvenience of not being able to re_adjust the beacon back on frequency. I will leave it on until  Friday 
2259 utc (2359 bst).
Regards
Finbar    EI0CF
P.S   I will leave it on its present freq  until  shut down on Friday.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12570 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 23:31:57 +0100 Received: from cask.force9.net (195.166.128.29) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 23:31:57 +0100 Received: (qmail 16126 invoked from network); 28 Jul 1999 22:32:17 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Jul 1999 22:32:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119aqT-0005ry-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 22:02:37 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailhost.zen.co.uk ([212.23.8.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119aqS-0005rt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 22:02:36 +0100 Received: from ns.zen.co.uk (111.godel.zen.co.uk [212.23.16.239]) by mailhost.zen.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA03053 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:02:29 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990728215901.007c5bf0@zen.co.uk> X-Sender: alan.gale@zen.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:59:01 +0100 To: "LF Group" From: "Alan Gale" Subject: LF: 136 Beacons MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi All, (Wednesday Evening) I just had a look for Finbar's beacon which was putting a very good signal into this part of Lancashire on Sunday and Monday. I'm hearing it on 136.28 kHz (2048z), though it's weak and suffering due to the very heavy QRN crashes making the dots hard to hear. I'm also hearing G3XTZ at around 539 on 136.00 (2047z) with repeated: "TEST TEST de G3XTZ G3XTZ G3XTZ". 73 for now, Alan. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Gale G4TMV Location: North-West England. IO83VP Lancs 53:39.3N 2:10.6W. Equipment: Kenwood TS830M + Converters + FL3. W & G SPM-3 G5RV, Wellbrook ALA100 & ALA1530 magnetic Loops. Interests: Beacons, Search & Rescue, Maritime, Scanning, TVDX. Website: Interested in any of the above? If so why not pay a visit to my 'Beacons & Utes' website. Website URL: http://www.zen.co.uk/home/page/alan.gale/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27261 invoked from network); 29 Jul 1999 06:59:52 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Jul 1999 06:59:52 +0100 Received: (qmail 30491 invoked from network); 29 Jul 1999 06:02:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Jul 1999 06:02:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119j2e-00013I-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 06:47:44 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ah-img-2.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.153] helo=hpamgaab.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119j2c-00013D-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 06:47:43 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaab.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.6) id BAA05121 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 01:47:37 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 01:45:45 -0400 From: "Dave Sergeant" Subject: LF: Loops for RX To: "rsgb_lf_group" Message-ID: <199907290146_MC2-7EDE-F86@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: >From Dave G3YMC The recent discussion on receive loops has largely involved relatively small multiturn loops (frame and ferrite rod). I have no experience on these for 136. However I would like to comment that my transmit loop (100ft circumference and high Q) is an excellent low noise receiving antenna and picks up virtually no local electrical noise compared with my untuned 65ft long wire. A quick test this morning showed Finbar's beacon fully Q5 on the loop (as always) but uncopyable on the longwire, as it was swamped by noise. Static, TV carriers and the like are similar on both antennas, but it is local electrical hash and fluorescent noises which are absent on the loop. Mike G3XDV commented about the good receive properties of loops when I worked him a couple of weeks ago. 73s Dave G3YMC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21144 invoked from network); 29 Jul 1999 09:07:55 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Jul 1999 09:07:55 +0100 Received: (qmail 3940 invoked from network); 29 Jul 1999 08:10:45 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Jul 1999 08:10:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119kz2-0001rN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 08:52:08 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119kz0-0001rI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 08:52:06 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA13855 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:57:57 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990729095323.2eff8228@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:53:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: EI0CF In-reply-to: <003501bed91f$b95324c0$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: At 18:23 28/07/99 +0100, G3YXM wrote: >I would certainly like to try the "meander" aerial mentioned in technical >topics in the Rad Com this month. It consists of a quarter wave of wire, >grounded at one end, running up and down between a high support line and one >near the ground until the whole length is used up. This "curtain" is then >folded round into a circular form looking like a tall thin bird-cage. A >gamma feed is used at one of the low points near the feed end. >Sadly, I only had 300mtrs of wire with me! >Perhaps next time.... Sound interesting, I think besides me a lot of non-RSGB members in this reflector would like to get some more info on that antenna. 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2350 invoked from network); 29 Jul 1999 21:51:37 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Jul 1999 21:51:37 +0100 Received: (qmail 17673 invoked from network); 29 Jul 1999 18:49:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Jul 1999 18:49:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119url-0006Go-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 19:25:17 +0100 Received: from mashie.force9.net ([195.166.128.30]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 119urk-0006Gj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 19:25:17 +0100 Received: (qmail 10128 invoked from network); 29 Jul 1999 18:25:12 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Jul 1999 18:25:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 7418 invoked from network); 29 Jul 1999 18:25:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO prstesv1) (212.56.95.78) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Jul 1999 18:25:11 -0000 Message-ID: <001e01bed9f0$230a2b40$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: EI0CF beacon Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 19:26:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Dear All. I tried some Spectrogram plots to see how EI0CF's beacon may be received at a distance. Unfortunately, due to the speed of the transmission, Spectrogram gave no better copy than my ears did! If I reduced the bandwidth to resolve weak sinals only the "0" was visible which occurs every 17 seconds or so. If Spectrogram is to be used then true QRSS speeds will have to be used to gain any advantage. Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6229 invoked from network); 30 Jul 1999 16:02:52 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Jul 1999 16:02:52 +0100 Received: (qmail 16111 invoked from network); 30 Jul 1999 05:53:59 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jul 1999 05:53:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11A5Co-0002Pb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 06:27:42 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11A5Cn-0002PV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 06:27:41 +0100 Received: from walter (userl217.uk.uudial.com [193.149.74.30]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id GAA11876 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 06:23:17 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <199907300523.GAA11876@fm215.facility.pipex.com> X-Sender: blanch@mailhost.pncl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 06:27:23 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: EI0CF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Insomniac results for Friday 30th : 0445 Z : Audible but buried under QRN 0500 : QRN decreasing rapidly just as sun came up 0510 : Clearly audible and fairly easy copy. Don't think signal strength came up, just background noise went down. Also at 0510 : PA0CC called CQ twice. No replies. Very good signal. Walter G3JKV. (This time I've deleted the editing leftovers!) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18867 invoked from network); 30 Jul 1999 17:42:01 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Jul 1999 17:42:01 +0100 Received: (qmail 19238 invoked from network); 30 Jul 1999 12:30:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jul 1999 12:30:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ABbY-0005FA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:17:40 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.31] (helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11ABbV-0005F0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:17:38 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.151.10]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA8D4; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:16:57 +0200 Message-ID: <000e01beda86$23dcd360$0a97b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Cc: "Ger van Went, PA0GER" , "Pieter Bruinsma, PA0PHB" , "Gerrit Jan Huijsman, PA0GJH" , "Klaas Spaargaren, PA0KSB" Subject: LF: A burning affair Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:21:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
From PA0SE to All    
 
When last year I had completed my LF-station I measured the total series resistance of the aerial/earth-system at 61 ohm,
using a Wayne Kerr Radio Frequency Bridge type B601. The value was confirmed by measuring the loaded Q of the system.
 
For a check I measured again yesterday and found a surprising low 36.8 ohm! What could have made the change? The earth
resistance? In case of a small change it could have been. But almost halved? No. And then the penny dropped.
 
My aerial is a 2 x 20 m dipole with 11 m open line feeder. The feeder wires are strapped for LF. The bare wires enter the
shack through holes in the hardwood window-frame. Outside above the window is a panel made of some kind of pressed wood. The
bare wires touched the edge of the panel but I never worried about that. In the HF bands the voltage on the wires is never
very high and I considered the insulation resistance of wood high enough. In fact I never had any trouble on the HF bands
or on 160 m.
 
One evening last winter I was beaconing on 136.550 kHz when my wife came into the house in a state of alarm. "There is fire
outside the window of your shack!" I went outside and indeed in the rhythm of the morse code bright white fireworks could
be seen at the feeder entry point.
An investigation next morning showed that were the wires touched the panel, slots of several centimetres long had been
burned into the pressed wood. Also the holes in the window-frame were charred.
 
To improve the situation I enlarged the holes in the window-frame and inserted paxolin tubes that reach well outside the
pressed wood panel. I also replaced the bare wires by PVC covered wire where the feeders pass trough the paxolin tubes.
Since then no sparking or charring has occurred.
 
Obviously the poor insulation had increased the total series resistance to 61 ohm.
 
The capacitance of the aerial is 370 pF (reactance -j3.160 kohm at 136 kHz). So the reactance of the loading coil in parallel with a vacuum capacitor (set at a small value) is j3.160 kohm. The measured series resistance is 9.5 ohm so the unloaded Q is 333. The calculated series resistance of the aerial is 0.2 ohm. So the resistance of the earth is 36.8 - 9.3 - 0.2 = 27.3 ohm. Not too bad I think.
 
The aerial current had increased from 1.37 A at the beginning to 2.39 A now which means an increase of radiated power by
3.8 dB. The power fed to the aerial/earth-system is 2.12A * 2.12A * 36.8 ohm  = 162 watt. This is not too different from the
output of the transmitter which I measured at 175 W. DC input is 259 W so the efficiency of the class B amplifier is 68%.  
 
It all goes to show how important the insulation of the aerial at LF is. It has been said and written before over and over again but
it seems that an experience like I had is needed to really burn it in!
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
JO22GD
D.W. Rollema
V.d. Marckstraat 5
2352 RA Leiderdorp
The Netherlands
Tel. +31 71 589 27 34
E-mail: d.w.rollema@gironet.nl From PA0SE to All
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21253 invoked from network); 30 Jul 1999 17:45:07 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Jul 1999 17:45:07 +0100 Received: (qmail 24584 invoked from network); 30 Jul 1999 13:00:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jul 1999 13:00:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11AC6V-0005UF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:49:39 +0100 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11AC6S-0005Tu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:49:36 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 11AC6w-000557-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:50:07 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:45:46 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:48:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: A burning affair In-reply-to: <000e01beda86$23dcd360$0a97b38f@w8k3f0> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: PA0SE wrote: > It all goes to show how important the insulation of the aerial at LF is. It has been said and written before over and over again but > it seems that an experience like I had is needed to really burn it in! > Agreed. I have had several flash-overs, including setting fire to a plastic drain pipe which I had assumed was made of an insulating material (brand new conservatory - not a popular thing to do!). It is possible with an MF antenna to run the wire over a tree branch, but not at LF. Even coming close to a leaf can cause sparks, smoke and flames. The problem is so bad that the (UK) Admiralty Handbook of 1926 (highly recommended for practical LF work) specifies a maximum current, above which the corona discharge at the end of the antenna dissipates any additional power! This is higher power than we run, but not a lot. So good insulation is vital, not only for best efficiency, but also for saftey. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24112 invoked from network); 31 Jul 1999 01:05:45 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 31 Jul 1999 01:05:45 +0100 Received: (qmail 22587 invoked from network); 31 Jul 1999 00:08:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Jul 1999 00:08:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11AMRw-0001i5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:52:28 +0100 Received: from kodos.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.29]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11AMRu-0001i0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:52:27 +0100 Received: from p142.lifford1.tinet.ie ([159.134.235.142] helo=beachwood.tinet.ie) by kodos.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 11AMRq-00062e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:52:23 +0100 Message-ID: <008101bedae7$0000b720$81eb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: re:Puffs of smoke Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 23:57:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
I read with interest the message from  Dick/PA0SE, regarding his antenna system and fire.
 
Earlier this year I had a similar problem, when running at high power. At first  I used my
antenna wire with its plastic insulation only. This ran through a hole drilled in the hardwood
window frame. However once I ran the rig up to  5 amps, there was a crisp crackle and the
antenna current dropped down to almost zero. Using my Variac, I gradually ran up the power
again and again, but once I would get to about  2.5 amps the  insulation would break down.
The more I tried it , the lower the level became for the flashover to occur.
I then added some plastic over the insulation , but I had an interesting result. Rain water ran
down the antenna wire and between the two insulations, with the result that at  5 amps output
the outlet hole in the hardwood window frame would suddenly start emitting puffs of white
smoke in time with the morse code. I could read the morse by smoke signals ( no blankets
required ). If I kept the key down long enough I could dry out the water.
Eventually I found a ceramic standoff  with a hollow centre and drilled out a bigger hole in
the window frame for it. I also now put a drip turn in the antenna wire to prevent rain water
running into the feedthrough. Mind you, I have drilled that hole at an angle.  I also stuffed the
ends of the ceramic insulator with  'Blu-Tac'. Stops the wind blowing into the shack in Winter.
As they say    "No smoke without Fire"
73's   Finbar           EI0CF
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24854 invoked from network); 31 Jul 1999 01:11:43 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 31 Jul 1999 01:11:43 +0100 Received: (qmail 24615 invoked from network); 31 Jul 1999 00:14:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Jul 1999 00:14:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11AMYa-0001lc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:59:20 +0100 Received: from kodos.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.29]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11AMYX-0001lX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:59:17 +0100 Received: from p142.lifford1.tinet.ie ([159.134.235.142] helo=beachwood.tinet.ie) by kodos.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 11AMYT-00069P-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:59:13 +0100 Message-ID: <009e01bedae7$f4972800$81eb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: re:Beacon QRT Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 01:02:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit


 
                               BEACON  ON 136.200 KHZ  QRT  302259 UTC
 
I have now closed down the beacon operating on 136.200 khz ( or thereabouts ).
A big thanks to all those who contributed to the reporting of its signal. I even had
a qsl card today from Tony/G3LNP, confirming reception and noting his readings
on my e.r.p.
There are a number of results from this operation.
1. Very effectively makes operating impossible. Since last Saturday my receivers
    have been off, no point in even trying to listen to anything else.
2. If I try to operate a beacon again, it will be crystal controlled. My v.f.o was not
    stable enough for tight filtering on receive or those trying Spectogram. Sorry.
3. Perhaps Winter would be a better time to try an extended operation like this,
    when static  and T/L are less.
4. To be heard on the European mainland, perhaps I need to beacon at   5 amps
    or more. However I do not like leaving my gear running unattended at this level
    since the gear is operating on ' the edge '.
5. My Antenna is very long, extending over two gardens in one direction and a
    farmers field in the other direction, although only 14 metres high, what more
    is required to boost  e.r.p. Not sure if I am getting enough RF radiated   for the
    long haul from  Malin Head to mainland Europe. The beacon ran at  2  AMPS.
6. As G0MRF  noted, not everyone is on the Rsgb LF  Reflector, so maybe I should
    have got the new's out about my beacon by other means, also.
 
May I take this opportunity to thank all those who posted messages on the reflector
regarding the beacons operation. I have noted suggestions and have learnt a great
deal from the experience.
Very best regards  es  73's
Finbar     EI0CF
 
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 920 invoked from network); 31 Jul 1999 14:14:15 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 31 Jul 1999 14:14:15 +0100 Received: (qmail 28345 invoked from network); 31 Jul 1999 13:16:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Jul 1999 13:16:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11AYjR-0006wO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 13:59:21 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from email-aon.highway.telekom.at ([195.3.96.71] helo=SSP1NO21.highway.telekom.at) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11AYjQ-0006wJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 13:59:20 +0100 Received: from qsl.net (N194P017.dipool.highway.telekom.at [195.3.120.49]) by SSP1NO21.highway.telekom.at (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA120026 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 14:59:08 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37A2F2DC.1FB8764@qsl.net> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 14:58:04 +0200 From: "Heinz Schnait" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Activity from OE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: OE5PGL is currently active on 136.5kHz operating portable. He is running 70W to 450m wire antenna. Receiver is a FT1000 with preselector. Operation will continue all Saturday afternoon. 73 Heinz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12860 invoked from network); 31 Jul 1999 15:45:38 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 31 Jul 1999 15:45:38 +0100 Received: (qmail 8302 invoked from network); 31 Jul 1999 14:48:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Jul 1999 14:48:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11AaCO-0007ch-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 15:33:20 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11AaCN-0007cb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 15:33:20 +0100 Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Sat, 31 Jul 1999 16:33:10 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de (PC108249.dial.uni-kiel.de [134.245.108.249]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA11357 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 16:33:22 +0200 (MET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37A30920.4B021331@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 16:33:04 +0200 From: "Peter W. Schnoor" Organization: University of Kiel, Clinic of Nephrology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Complete Scan... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello Group, Made a complete scan with high resolution from 135.0 to 137.8 kHz this morning. Time : 0830z, approx. 60sec. Sampling : 4000 FFT-length: 8192 Antenna : 17m + 2x30m T-Marconi, RX : LF-Converter+R4b, FFT : SPECGRAM2, SoundBlaster, i486, LINUX. Resolution: < 0.5 Hz. The Graphic was "glued" together from 14 samplings with XPAINT. It can be downloaded from there: ftp://ftp.rz.uni-kiel.de/pub/nephro/nephlab/lp/allfit.gif (Many greetings from LORAN-C included...) 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 105 invoked from network); 31 Jul 1999 17:51:08 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 31 Jul 1999 17:51:08 +0100 Received: (qmail 26491 invoked from network); 31 Jul 1999 16:53:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Jul 1999 16:53:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Ac1d-0008Q1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 17:30:21 +0100 Received: from cask.force9.net ([195.166.128.29]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Ac1c-0008Pw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 17:30:21 +0100 Received: (qmail 21376 invoked from network); 31 Jul 1999 16:30:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO prstesv1) (195.166.130.100) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 31 Jul 1999 16:30:19 -0000 Message-ID: <000c01bedb72$6c8a24e0$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Complete Scan... Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 17:33:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Dear Peter, I think it would make a good pattern for a shirt... Dave G3YXM > >Made a complete scan with high resolution from 135.0 to >137.8 kHz this morning. > >The Graphic was "glued" together from 14 samplings with >XPAINT. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3405 invoked from network); 31 Jul 1999 18:13:56 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 31 Jul 1999 18:13:56 +0100 Received: (qmail 29761 invoked from network); 31 Jul 1999 17:16:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Jul 1999 17:16:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11AcZv-00009X-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 18:05:47 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout01.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.149]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11AcZu-00009S-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 18:05:46 +0100 Received: from fwd03.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.163]) by mailout01.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 11AcZt-0000xW-00; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 19:05:45 +0200 Received: (087321565-0001(btxid)@[193.158.172.132]) by fwd03.btx.dtag.de id ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 19:05:41 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 19:05:41 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: First LF QSO OE - DL X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-online.de From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hallo all, as indicated before, the first austrian amateur LF station has come on the air on saturday afternoon, July 31st, 1999, under the callsign OE5ODL. I could not hear the station after 11.00 gmt, as indicated first, and due to increasing QRN lowered my listening activity, but heard OE5ODL with cq at 13.48 gmt. As I am living close to the OE5 border radio contact could be established immediately, it was the first qso of OE5ODL, I got RST 449 and easily could give RST 569 in spite of rather high afternoon QRN. OE5ODL was located at Ried, (JN68RF) on the road from Braunau to Wels, and the station had been erected in connection with a fieldday which is held regularly at about this time of the year. The distance to my QTH (JN68GN), as measured on a map, was about 78 km. The operator was Peter, OE5PGL (also mbr of G-QRP-C No 1472), the transmitter (70 W out) has been built by Heinz, OE5EEP, the aerial (described as a "marconi 470 meters long") by an OM named Ossi (Call unknown so far). The receiver was a FT 1000 MP behind a converter. To my disappointment (and possibly that of others) OE5ODL could only be QRV this Saturday over the fieldday, they could not follow my advice to be qrv again on sunday morning when QRN would probably be lower and chances for more QSOs much greater. After I have signed off at 14.24 I heard DL1SAN calling OE5ODL, but I could not observe the band any longer due to other duties. But the equipment is existing, and so let us hope that OE will show up again on LF as soon as possible. 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4924 invoked from network); 31 Jul 1999 18:23:28 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 31 Jul 1999 18:23:28 +0100 Received: (qmail 31511 invoked from network); 31 Jul 1999 17:26:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Jul 1999 17:26:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Aciu-0000DI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 18:15:04 +0100 Received: from kodos.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.29]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Acis-0000DD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 18:15:03 +0100 Received: from p132.lifford1.tinet.ie ([159.134.235.132] helo=beachwood.tinet.ie) by kodos.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 11Acip-0008On-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 18:14:59 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01bedb78$a83a3ce0$84eb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: re:QRS beacon 137.192 Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 18:17:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
                           QRS  BEACON TEST  ON 137.192 KHZ   CRYSTAL CONTROLLED.
I have put a qrs beacon on 137.192 khz  this afternoon, using a crystal I found in the junk box , for 8777 khz/64  to give
on air frequency of 137.192 khz. Running  3 amps. Hope this will make up for the drifting signal  when I had the beacon running during the week. I have modified my memory keyer with a few resistors to slow down the  repeating  EI0CF callsign, but I am not sure if I have got the timing right.
best regards
Finbar     EI0CF.
p.s.  I will leave it running until  Sunday lunchtime ,ie  about  1300 utc.