From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18452 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 06:55:58 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 06:55:58 +0100 Received: (qmail 15816 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 05:59:52 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 05:59:52 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10ohTo-00014b-00; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 06:52:52 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA00581 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 05:52:09 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA00575 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 05:52:03 GMT Received: from ns.cro.cz ([193.179.196.2] ident=qmailr) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ohhZ-00087T-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 07:07:06 +0100 Received: (qmail 28091 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 05:51:48 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from fw.cro.cz (HELO ns-int.cro.cz) (193.179.197.2) by ns.cro.cz with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 05:51:48 -0000 Received: from radiohk.hk.cro.cz (ns.hk.cro.cz [172.27.1.2]) by ns-int.cro.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA26259 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 07:51:47 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc033hk.hk.cro.cz ([172.27.1.33]) by radiohk.hk.cro.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA12495 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 07:51:30 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by pc033hk.hk.cro.cz with Microsoft Mail id <01BEAC03.8EA4D8C0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz>; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 07:51:29 +-200 Message-ID: <01BEAC03.8EA4D8C0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> From: "Petr Maly" To: "'137 kHz'" Subject: LF: Weekend 29/5/99 Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 07:51:27 +-200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello LowFers In spite of heavy QRM this weekend, I heard: IK5ZPV, HB9ASB, I5MXX, DF2PY, DJ1ZB (rather poor), LX1PD (extremely strong, made G3XTZ). Antenna made a little longer, now it was inv-L 103 meters long, RX IC-751A. In advance for TX purposes I made 5-pole low-pass filter (160 kHz) which I tried to switch on and off when listening to poor signals. There was absolutely no difference. Now preparing for TX, estimated power for first trials I consider about 100W which my "miniature" loading coil could survive. I suppose to transmit both CW and Slow-CW. Thanks all for discussion on inv-L and T antennas and capacity hats. 73 Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4521 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 09:07:18 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 09:07:18 +0100 Received: (qmail 26939 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 08:11:15 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 08:11:15 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10oja1-0001OL-00; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:07:25 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA01372 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:07:18 GMT X-Priority: 3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA01366 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:07:13 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ojoJ-0000dG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:22:11 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #34) id 10okUt-0001AH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:06:11 +0000 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:04:44 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:05:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Weekend report 29-31 May Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Tuesday - Friday 26 - 28 May Skeds with IK1ODO using QRSs. Very bad storms in Italy and some nights also bad in UK. Saw Marco on Wed and Fri, but no QSO. Saturday Saturday 29 May Bad QRN all day. Heard G3XTZ (599); EI0CF (349); G8RW (569). Sunday 30 May Day started very quiet, then local TV came on, then really bad QRN. Heard DF2PY (539); GYXM (599). Monday 31 May Holiday in UK but not Eu. Very quiet morning, low local noise, low QRN. Heard PA0CC (549) for the first time; G3BDQ (579). Worked G3YXM (599). This weekend has had the worst QRN I have heard on the band. I notice that the WebCluster did not have a single report for 136, though there were about 12 last weekend. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29623 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 10:45:56 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 10:45:56 +0100 Received: (qmail 10210 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 09:49:53 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 09:49:53 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10ol7P-0001lT-00; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:45:59 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA02614 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:46:00 GMT X-Priority: 3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA02610 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:45:58 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ursa.cns.umist.ac.uk ([130.88.210.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10olLp-0001QX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:00:53 +0100 Received: from fs5.ee.umist.ac.uk ([130.88.118.127]) by ursa.cns.umist.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org id 10ol76-0004sC-00; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:45:40 +0100 Received: from UK-AC-UMIST-EE-FS5/SpoolDir by fs5.ee.umist.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 1 Jun 99 10:45:39 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from SpoolDir by UK-AC-UMIST-EE-FS5 (Mercury 1.43); 1 Jun 99 10:45:23 GMT From: "Keith" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:45:19 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: lf: DX Cluster spots Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000001beaaf0$37ff3e20$f0238cd4@default> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Alan and the LF group, I have been involved with cluster networks for some years and late last year opening my own cluster node, gb7dxx. I also follow LF progress although I don't presently have time to do anything more practical. Alan wrote: > It seems that the original cluster software will not accept spots entered below 1800KHz, though some of the newer >software clones are more flexible. True of AK1A software. I run software developed in France, dos based, and I believe can be adapted but how does the next node cope with the spot? There are two Linux based cluster node software code also expanding in features and I will pass along your comments. The cluster network is not permanently linked across the whole of the Uk thus at times difference in information available. Regards, Keith, G3RTU/GB7DXX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2818 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 15:16:13 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 15:16:13 +0100 Received: (qmail 14898 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 14:20:11 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 14:20:11 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10opBg-0002gy-01; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 15:06:40 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA05397 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 14:06:38 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA05393 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 14:06:35 GMT From: Gerald_Moritz@pskdd.psk.co.at Received: from hausmasta.austria.eu.net ([193.81.83.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10opPu-0003TL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 15:21:22 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gate.psk.co.at (gate.psk.at [193.83.62.5]) by hausmasta.Austria.EU.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA07103 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 16:06:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by gate gate 1707 id AA12634; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 16:05:56 +0100 Received: from DDPRNH01.psk.co.at(10.33.35.232), claiming to be "PSKDD.PSK.CO.AT" via SMTP by gate-i, id smtpdfyiOMa; Tue Jun 1 16:05:48 1999 Received: by PSKDD.PSK.CO.AT(Lotus SMTP MTA SMTP v4.6 (462.2 9-3-1997)) id C1256783.004D6939 ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 16:05:32 +0200 X-Lotus-FromDomain: PSKDD To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 16:05:29 +0200 Subject: LF: Diagrams for LF-TX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Group ! I'm very interested in building an slow-cw-generator (Version 1 with Timer and EPROM, Version 2 with PIC ???) and a TX for LF. Got 100 Pcs of IRF830 (500V/4,5A) and want to build a TX with it. Are there any Web-Pages or Pictures with circuit-diagrams for some ideas ??? TNX de Gerald, OE6GOD(JN77QI)/OE1GOD(JN88EE) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26796 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 18:23:02 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 18:23:02 +0100 Received: (qmail 13445 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 17:27:01 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 17:27:01 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10osFd-0003MA-00; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:22:57 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA07580 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 17:23:17 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA07576 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 17:23:15 GMT Received: from cask.force9.net ([195.166.128.29]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10osU7-00054n-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:37:55 +0100 Received: (qmail 19314 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 17:22:30 -0000 Received: from relay3.force9.net (HELO relay2.force9.net) (195.166.128.25) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 17:22:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 18135 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 17:16:52 -0000 Received: from 252.hiper01.shef.dialup.force9.net (HELO prstesv1) (195.166.142.252) by relay3.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 17:16:52 -0000 Message-ID: <001e01beac53$b91867c0$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Diagrams for LF-TX Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:23:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Gerald, > > .............. TX for LF. > >Got 100 Pcs of IRF830 (500V/4,5A) and want to build a TX with it. > >Are there any Web-Pages or Pictures with circuit-diagrams for some ideas >??? > Try http://www.wireless.org.uk/136.htm where there are some switching TX designs (using IRFP450 but yours will work), there is also a link to G0MRF's site where he has a linear design. Are there any OE stations active on 136? 73 and good luck, Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19416 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 19:48:39 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 19:48:39 +0100 Received: (qmail 7535 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 18:52:35 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 18:52:35 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10otaa-0003xS-00; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:48:40 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA08870 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:49:03 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA08866 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:49:01 GMT Received: from premium.inrete.it ([194.116.9.4] helo=mailer.inrete.it ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10otp4-0005pK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 20:03:38 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from cel266 (pool17-005.dialup.alpcom.it [194.116.17.5]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA05968 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 20:48:17 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990601194629.028206d8@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 19:46:29 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: LF: Want to meet LF OMs in Friedrichshafen In-reply-to: <01BEAC03.8EA4D8C0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello all, I will be in Friedrichshafen at Ham-Radio on days 24, 25 and (maybe) 26 of June. Who of you will participate? May we meet at some booth? Marco Bruno - IK1ODO spin@inrete.it SPIN Electronics - www.spin-it.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2127 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 20:36:52 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 20:36:52 +0100 Received: (qmail 16369 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 19:40:49 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 19:40:49 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10ouLN-00049B-00; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 20:37:01 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA09311 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:37:27 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA09307 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:37:24 GMT Received: from dh-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.131] helo=hpdmgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ouZs-00068N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 20:52:00 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.4) id PAA02723 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 15:36:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 15:35:41 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Diagrams for LF-TX To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199906011536_MC2-77CC-2985@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Gerald, OE6GOD/OE1GOD, >Got 100 Pcs of IRF830 (500V/4,5A) and want to build a TX with it. Congrats! 100 pieces are an excellent FET pool to start with. But just a word of warning: I have burned 16 IRFP 450 before my G0MRF PA worked (it was a problem of improper cooling, for details check my homepage http;//www.dk8kw.home.pages.de). >Are there any Web-Pages or Pictures with circuit-diagrams for some ideas??? Have a look at the following pages: http://www.qsl.net/df3lp/index.html http://www.picks.force9.co.uk/136.htm http://www.g0mrf.freeserve.co.uk/projects/index.html Best 73, cu on LF! Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) http://www.dk8kw.home.pages.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2314 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 20:37:30 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 20:37:30 +0100 Received: (qmail 2300 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 19:41:29 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 19:41:29 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10ouLa-0004AA-00; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 20:37:14 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA09320 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:37:44 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA09316 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:37:40 GMT Received: from mailout09.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.157]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10oua6-00068R-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 20:52:14 +0100 Received: from fwd04.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.164]) by mailout09.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 10ouLN-0005Rf-00; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 21:37:01 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (320057114934-0001(btxid)@[62.157.27.73]) by fwd04.btx.dtag.de id ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 21:36:43 +0200 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 21:36:43 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: Kerstin.Blau@t-online.de Subject: LF: Heavy QRN in Germany X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 320057114934-0001@t-online.de From: "DF2PY" Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Lowfers ! We experienced the heaviest qrn in a long time at this latitude. Hot and dry weather gave us plenty of static discharge and far away lightning added to the noise level.Only had a qso with DF8ZR a 40 mi away. We had a little get-together of stations in the Rhein Main area at a local swap-meet.Nice to see the guys on the other end.There were DJ8CY,DF8ZR,DJ1RL, DF2PY and Gamal ( going to be lic soon). So lets hope for decreasing qrn and then we might get some of those new contries like OE or OK worked on 137 kcs. In the meantime lets upgrade our stations, as i know there are a few ones in their starting phase with small everything and they still have the fun of advancing their capabilities.So lets get ready for some nice qsos on longwave. 73 es gud dx de df2py From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23680 invoked from network); 2 Jun 1999 00:06:23 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 2 Jun 1999 00:06:23 +0100 Received: (qmail 21759 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1999 23:10:21 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Jun 1999 23:10:21 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10oxbe-0005VN-00; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 00:06:02 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA12175 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 23:05:31 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA12166 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 23:05:26 GMT Received: from mailout09.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.157]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10oxp5-00085d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 00:19:55 +0100 Received: from fwd09.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.169]) by mailout09.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 10oxaM-0005WM-00; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 01:04:42 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (087321565-0001(btxid)@[62.157.16.157]) by fwd09.btx.dtag.de id ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 01:04:29 +0200 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 01:04:29 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.3.32.19990601194629.028206d8@mailer.inrete.it> Subject: Re: LF: Want to meet LF OMs in Friedrichshafen X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-online.de From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Dear Bruno, there will be an LF-Forum at the Ham Radio on Thursday, 24. June at 16.00 h, under the direction of DJ2LF. Location: Hall Nr. 2, Room "B". HW? 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB M. Bruno schrieb: > Hello all, > > I will be in Friedrichshafen at Ham-Radio on days > 24, 25 and (maybe) 26 of June. > > Who of you will participate? May we meet at some > booth? > > > Marco Bruno - IK1ODO > spin@inrete.it > > SPIN Electronics - www.spin-it.com > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10291 invoked from network); 2 Jun 1999 22:28:30 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 2 Jun 1999 22:28:30 +0100 Received: (qmail 29906 invoked from network); 2 Jun 1999 21:32:35 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Jun 1999 21:32:35 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10pIY4-0000NR-00; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:27:44 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA25639 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 21:21:25 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA25635 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 21:21:22 GMT Received: from disp.mindef.nl ([62.200.204.66] helo=u05.mindef.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10pIfy-00018w-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:35:54 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from co.disp.mindef.nl (dial-040.pop1.mld.disp.net [62.200.205.40]) by u05.mindef.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA6369 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:20:10 +0200 Message-ID: <37559F91.7E2E906A@co.disp.mindef.nl> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 23:18:11 +0200 From: "J.M. Valstar" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [nl]C-CCK-MCD QXW07201 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: nl,de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "RSGB LF Group" Subject: LF: PA2NJN QRV again during Field day activities Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Group, PA2NJN ACTIVE AGAIN ON 136.5 KHZ ================================ As from saturday June 5th, Nico / PA2NJN will be qrv again on the LF band, fixed transmitting freq = 136.5 kHz. Transmitter is the prototype of the 'First', a D-Class Fet transmitter, delivering 130 Watts. The transmitting earial is vertical wire attached to a Kite (a Para-Foile). Formerly we succeeded to bring out several hundred meters of antenna wire. This wire is specially made; it's litze with a kevlar core. It's obvious, that transmitting with the kite-earial is weather depending (windforce abt 2 to 5 bft and no thunderstorms, hi) Nico will receive on a active antenna and/or the kite-earial. This time Nico will n o t be qrv from his home qth Eenrum (JO33FI), but from the Fieldday location called 'Smeerling' which is in the provence of Groningen, close to the German border, abt 45 km southeast of Groningen City (JO33AM?). Nico qrv sked (weather depending) will be as follows .... sat june 5th, all day sun june 6th, all day mon june 7th, as fm 1900 utc tue june 8th, as fm 1900 utc wed june 9th, as fm 1900 utc thu june 10th, as fm 1900 utc fri june 11th, as fm 1900 utc sat june 12th, nico's day off (not qrv!) sun june 13th, all day Reports are welcome. You can contact Nico either by his Packet adress pa3njn@pi8awt.#gro.nld.eu or via me ( or the lf reflector). The Dx cluster is also attended. Nico is operating under the so called 'STERRAZA' Group, which organises several field days a year. The Sterraza Group will be active the same period on HF, VHF and UHF bands under the call PI4HSG. So when you meet Nico on HF (CW) you know the Wx is too bad for the Kite or the wind just fails to blow. Pictures of the 136 kHz experiments can be viewed from our website http://www.qsl.net/pd1aot Vy 73 Jaap, PA3GUC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17973 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1999 01:07:27 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Jun 1999 01:07:27 +0100 Received: (qmail 1177 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1999 00:11:31 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Jun 1999 00:11:31 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10pL2P-0001Fg-00; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 01:07:13 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA27680 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 00:05:41 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA27676 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 00:05:39 GMT Received: from tantalum.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.80]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10pLFb-0002be-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 01:20:51 +0100 Received: from [212.140.37.96] (helo=default) by tantalum.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10pL0I-0002ly-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 01:05:03 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01bead54$cee19160$60258cd4@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: example of 24 May spots on GB7DXM at Ipswich Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 00:54:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
As I promised the spots from GB7DXM at Martlesham just outside Ipswich (JO02PB).
Note the range of both the calls spotted and the position of the entering stations.
   136.5  PA0CC       24-May-1999 1747Z  in qso with lx1pd            <DJ5BV>
   136.5  OZ5N        24-May-1999 1448Z  in QSO with OZ1KMR           <DK8KW>
   137.7  ON4ZK       24-May-1999 0934Z  cq slow-cw 549               <DJ5BV>
   136.9  PA0MLC      24-May-1999 0801Z  cq  539                      <DJ5BV>
   136.9  PA0MLC      24-May-1999 0801Z  cq  539                      <DJ5BV>
   137.2  DJ1ZB       24-May-1999 0803Z  qso with dj7rd              <DL1SAN>
   137.7  DJ5BV       24-May-1999 0730Z  cq Slow-CW ufb sig in JO52BH <DK8KW>
   137.7  G3XDV       23-May-1999 2008Z  slow-cw ufb sign             <DJ5BV>
   136.5  G3YXMN      22-May-1999 1715Z  cq                           <DJ5BV>
   137.7  G3XDV       22-May-1999 1710Z  cq slow-cw                   <DJ5BV>
   136.9  G3XTZ       22-May-1999 1038Z  in qso with g3aqc            <DJ5BV>
   137.7  G3XDV       22-May-1999 0911Z  cq slow-cw                   <DJ5BV>
   137.7  DK8KW       22-May-1999 0814Z  cq slow-cw                   <DJ5BV>
   137.7  G3XDV       22-May-1999 0731Z  slow-cw in qso               <DJ5BV>
   136.9  DF2PY       22-May-1999 0702Z  cq                           <DK8KW>
   136.9  DF2PY       22-May-1999 0702Z  cq                           <DK8KW>
   137.0  OZ5N        21-May-1999 2317Z  cq 539                       <DJ5BV>
   136.8  OZ5NK       21-May-1999 2140Z  ??  329  cq                  <DJ5BV>
G3NYK de GB7DXM   24-May 1902Z > (dummy freq due to s/w 'feature')
  1800.0  DJ5DI       24-May-1999 0736Z  on 136.9 kHz hr 559          <DF2PY>
  1800.0  DF2PY       24-May-1999 0711Z  CQing on 136.9 kHz           <DF2PY>
  1800.0  DJ1RL       23-May-1999 1922Z  on 136.9 fb sig 579          <DF2PY>
  1800.0  DJ7RD       23-May-1999 1002Z  on 136.8 kHz--               <DF2PY>
  1800.0  DF8ZR       23-May-1999 0829Z  on 137.00 kHz --             <DF2PY>
  1800.0  DF2PY       23-May-1999 0546Z  CQing on 136.8 kHz           <DF2PY>
  1800.0  IK5ZPV      22-May-1999 2154Z  136.7 rst 551 (RX)          <IK4GNI>
  1800.0  I5MXX       22-May-1999 2142Z  136.7 KHz CW RST551(RX)     <IK4GNI>
  1800.0  PA0LQ       22-May-1999 1237Z  on 136.9 kHz in QSO          <DF2PY>
  1800.0  DF2PY       22-May-1999 1215Z   CQing on 136.8 kHz          <DF2PY>
  1800.0  GW4ALG      22-May-1999 1020Z  cq 137.22khz                 <G3NYK>
  1800.0  G4GVC       22-May-1999 1019Z  cq 136.40khz                 <G3NYK>
  1800.0  DJ5BV       22-May-1999 0846Z   on 137,1 kHz nice sig       <DF2PY>
  1800.0  DF2PY       22-May-1999 0722Z   cq 137                     <PA3FQX>
  1800.0  PA0SE       22-May-1999 0707Z   on 136.9 kHz in qso         <DF2PY>
  1800.0  DF2PY       21-May-1999 1237Z  CQing on 136.8 kHz           <DF2PY>
  1800.0  I5MXX       20-May-1999 2001Z  on 136.8 kHz  569 !!         <DF2PY>
  1800.0  DF2PY       20-May-1999 1802Z   CQing on 136.8 kHz          <DF2PY>
G3NYK de GB7DXM   24-May 1903Z >
Hope these are interesting.....Sorry the format is a bit skewed
There was very little this last weekend I suspect due to the high levels of static.
Do you want to see more of these?? 
Cheers de Alan G3NYK
 
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24518 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1999 05:25:24 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Jun 1999 05:25:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 30144 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1999 04:29:29 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Jun 1999 04:29:29 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10pP0d-0001dD-00; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 05:21:39 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA28885 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 04:21:35 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id EAA28881 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 04:21:33 GMT Received: from as-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.148] helo=spamgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10pPF7-0004Te-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 05:36:37 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.0) id AAA13398 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 00:21:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 00:20:47 -0400 From: "Dave Sergeant" Subject: LF: Diagrams for LF-TX To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199906030021_MC2-77FB-5B23@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Gerald Try also looking at my web site, which has circuits of my transverter together with lots of 136 stuff. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22194 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1999 09:07:39 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Jun 1999 09:07:39 +0100 Received: (qmail 28625 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1999 08:11:45 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Jun 1999 08:11:45 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10pSX5-00020T-00; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:07:23 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA30074 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 08:07:21 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA30070 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 08:07:18 GMT Received: from apollo.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.125]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10pSlU-00066a-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:22:16 +0100 Received: from pc171.geog.le.ac.uk ([143.210.151.171] helo=kate) by apollo.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10pSWg-00012R-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:06:58 +0100 Message-ID: <001401bead97$2c221290$ab97d28f@kate.geog.le.ac.uk> From: "Kate Moore" To: "lfgroup" Subject: LF: Noise problems Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:00:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org I guess it had to happen eventually; after months of generally low-noise RX on LF, I have suddenly got a serious local QRN problem. It started abruptly at the beginning of last week and has been on continuously since then. The '850 s-meter reads a steady S9 on 136kHz, with a continuous roaring in the speaker (like a cross between motor spikes and wider pulses), so I am struggling with even the loudest LF signals, let alone weak DX. It extends below LF and up past 7MHz, so even 40m work is difficult. We first noticed it on the BC RX in the kitchen, when listening to a medium wave station from Coventry (which we are JUST outside the coverage area of) which was noisey, as if their TX was running low power - not so. Local and national LW/MW signals intended for this area aren't noticably affected. I went out with a Walkman on Monday trying to DF it and it is easily detectable beyond the block our house is on - peaking about 200m behind our house, over a busy main road. I couldn't get an accurate fix on it due to local phone lines and buildings giving false nulls, and whilst I was wandering back and forth, a local dog-walker challenged me as to what I was up to and clearly didn't accept my explanation, so I gave up! It's difficult to decide what is causing the noise - the area is very mixed large domestic plots with some shops and tiny industrial units, but mostly housing. From the physical and frequency range it is detectable over, it must be causing BC problems to houses closer than we are, but I imagine most people wouldn't understand what was happening. It is on continuously and must either be a large 'dirty' installation, something very seriously breaking down or possibly one of the new broad-band signalling systems (although I doubt the latter). Whatever it is, whilst it's on, I'm effectively QRT on 136, topband, 80m and 40m; so I need to get to the bottom of it. From what I've said, does anyone know whether the authorities would be sympathetic to tracking it down and getting the owner to clean it up, or am I on my own? Has anyone had any success in similar circumstances? I think Derek had trouble with a noise source last year - did you get it cleaned up, Derek, or did you have to work around it? All hints and suggestions gratefully received....... John G4GVC near Leicester, IO92JP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3254 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1999 09:55:04 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Jun 1999 09:55:04 +0100 Received: (qmail 3310 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1999 08:59:11 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Jun 1999 08:59:11 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10pTHF-00027E-00; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:55:05 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA30618 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 08:55:07 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA30614 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 08:55:04 GMT Received: from smtp.mail.big-orange.net ([143.179.236.32] helo=Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10pTVg-0006VY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:10:00 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.151.149]) by Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA496D for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:54:39 +0200 Message-ID: <003b01bead9f$07dd46e0$9597b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "RSGB LF Group" Subject: LF: Re: example of 24 May spots on GB7DXM at Ipswich Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:56:05 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
 
Dear Alan, you wrote:
 
Do you want to see more of these?? 
 
 
Yes please!
 
It is always interesting to us Dutchman to know how our signals compare to other ones from the continent.
 
I write this also on behalf of Harry, PA0LQ.
 
Thanks in advance dear Alan and happy monitoring! 
 
73, Dick PA0SE
JO22GD
D.W. Rollema
V.d. Marckstraat 5
2352 RA Leiderdorp
The Netherlands
Tel. +31 71 589 27 34
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11848 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1999 15:50:38 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Jun 1999 15:50:38 +0100 Received: (qmail 1428 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1999 14:54:45 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Jun 1999 14:54:45 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10pYou-0002mt-00; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 15:50:12 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA00995 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:50:19 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA00991 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:50:16 GMT Received: from mailout01.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.149]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10pZ3E-0000ng-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:05:00 +0100 Received: from fwd07.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.167]) by mailout01.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 10pYoU-0004FP-00; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:49:46 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (320057114934-0001(btxid)@[62.158.46.152]) by fwd07.btx.dtag.de id ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:49:28 +0200 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:49:28 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: kheintze@mainz-online.de, Kerstin.Blau@t-online.de Subject: LF: New at DF2PY-web-page X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 320057114934-0001@t-online.de From: "DF2PY" Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hi Lowfers ! With my very limited abilities i managed to get a few pictures onto a web-site.They show a few pictures taken around the place.The adress is below http://home.t-online.de/home/df2py/ 73 de wolf From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26003 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1999 16:41:34 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Jun 1999 16:41:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 10552 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1999 15:45:42 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Jun 1999 15:45:42 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10pZcX-0002vr-01; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:41:29 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA01521 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 15:41:50 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA01517 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 15:41:48 GMT Received: from ah-img-2.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.153] helo=hpamgaab.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10pZr4-0001CF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:56:30 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaab.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.4) id LAA12876 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 11:40:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 11:38:55 -0400 From: "Howard Aspinall" <100646.144@compuserve.com> Subject: LF: Noise problems To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199906031140_MC2-780F-88E2@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org John, It sounds like it could be a power distribution problem, possibly an arcing insulator or even a transformer, though insulator problems are often affected by the type of weather (ie) dry, damp or wet. Having once been in the electricity supply industry my recollection is that although procedure now differs from company to company, in general their stance with radio amateurs is that if the amateur can identify the source of the problem such as the relevant tower or pole, they will effect remedial work. Otherwise you might have to wait until the problem turns into a failure, or it is found during planned maintenance. Power companies did and still might operate a planned helicopter line checking procedure following hv o/h lines with special detectors to identify hot spots/arcs etc. Of course if you could ascertain there are problems with reception to "protected services" such as bc, pmr or emergency, the local RIS would probably act. Your best bet there might be with reception problems with lw Radio4 if you could show people were having them. Once my lw R4 reception was completely wiped out by a switch mode psu without adequate input suppression causing noise to be radiated along the mains wiring to everyone being fed from that particular substation. Switch mode noise does have its own identifiable characteristic though. I DFed the source using a portable marine df rx with a sig meter, told the guy that peoples' reception was affected, let him hear the noise for himself, and he sorted it out double quick. In that case the guy was using industrial equipment from home, and was concerned to keep people happy in case someone complained and the local authority found out about what he was doing and charged him a business rate or forced him to close his business. The annoying thing was the "noise generator" remained energised even when he wasn't actually working. If all else fails, I think you'll have to DF the source, difficult though that will be, but I feel you should try to observe any variations in the noise (eg) times, wet or dry weather or any other characteristics which might give some clue as to the source (eg) factories or workshops etc open or closed. Good luck 73..Howard/G3RXH From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29601 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1999 20:26:39 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Jun 1999 20:26:39 +0100 Received: (qmail 991 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1999 19:30:48 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Jun 1999 19:30:48 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10pd8V-0003Ee-01; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:26:44 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA03339 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:27:03 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA03335 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:27:00 GMT Received: from mashie.force9.net ([195.166.128.30]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10pdMt-0002we-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:41:35 +0100 Received: (qmail 27202 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1999 19:25:49 -0000 Received: from relay3.force9.net (HELO relay2.force9.net) (195.166.128.25) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Jun 1999 19:25:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 12907 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1999 19:20:30 -0000 Received: from 195.hiper01.shef.dialup.force9.net (HELO prstesv1) (195.166.142.195) by relay3.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Jun 1999 19:20:30 -0000 Message-ID: <003801beadf7$560d6b80$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: example of 24 May spots on GB7DXM at Ipswich Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:26:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Alan,
 
Very useful.
I don't have packet and, although a lot of the spots are the same as the internet site, there are some new ones.
Please carry on.
 
Dave G3YXM
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1498 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1999 20:35:03 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Jun 1999 20:35:03 +0100 Received: (qmail 4805 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1999 19:39:12 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Jun 1999 19:39:12 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10pdGO-0003It-00; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:34:52 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA03405 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:35:18 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA03401 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:35:15 GMT Received: from premium.inrete.it ([194.116.9.4] helo=mailer.inrete.it ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10pdUs-0002xV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:49:50 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from cel266 (pool17-135.dialup.alpcom.it [194.116.17.135]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA01908 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 21:34:32 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990603203401.02ad3714@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 20:34:01 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: LF: Re: example of 24 May spots on GB7DXM at Ipswich In-reply-to: <003801beadf7$560d6b80$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Very useful. I expected the Internet cluster reflector to be more efficient. Please, go on! 73 - Marco IK1ODO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21652 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1999 23:53:04 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Jun 1999 23:53:04 +0100 Received: (qmail 19273 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1999 22:57:13 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Jun 1999 22:57:13 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10pgJN-0003uu-01; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:50:09 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA05449 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 22:49:01 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA05445 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 22:48:58 GMT Received: from neodymium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.83]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10pgWF-0004kM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 00:03:27 +0100 Received: from [212.140.37.197] (helo=default) by neodymium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10pgEd-0004YR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:45:15 +0100 Message-ID: <004d01beae13$2a448da0$c5258cd4@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: DX cluster spots from GB7DXM Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 22:30:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Thanks for all the encouragement. I will certainly post a resume from my local cluster either late Sunday night or early Monday. The spots seem to 'live' for about 5 days , so a collection from Sunday evening will probably include any posted back to  the previous Wednesday. Glad to be able to help a little, I will be on myself someday, but I dont remember enjoying my radio so much as I have in the last 9 months on LF since I first got my ticket in 1960. There are so many new things to learn and so many old ones to re-learn.....did I hear somebody say morse was dead!!
 
Cheers de Alan G3NYK
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1992 invoked from network); 4 Jun 1999 08:33:43 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 4 Jun 1999 08:33:43 +0100 Received: (qmail 29674 invoked from network); 4 Jun 1999 07:37:55 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Jun 1999 07:37:55 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10poSy-0005Fx-01; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 08:32:36 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA09591 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 07:32:08 GMT X-Priority: 3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA09587 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 07:32:06 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jazzfm.netcomuk.co.uk ([194.42.248.66]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10pogx-00008h-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 08:47:04 +0100 Received: from jazzfm.com [192.168.102.5] by jazzfm.netcomuk.co.uk [127.0.0.1] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Fri, 04 Jun 1999 08:30:06 +0100 Received: from JazzFM-Message_Server by jazzfm.com with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 04 Jun 1999 08:30:59 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 08:30:31 +0100 From: "Martin Charman" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Noise problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: Martin@jazzfm.com Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org If the noise is interfering with broadcast services designed to be received in your area then the RIS should be interested in helping you out. If you have problems with them, give me a ring and I might be able to help with contacts! Martin G4FKK 0171 706 4100 >>> "Kate Moore" 06/03 9:00 am >>> I guess it had to happen eventually; after months of generally low-noise RX on LF, I have suddenly got a serious local QRN problem. It started abruptly at the beginning of last week and has been on continuously since then. The '850 s-meter reads a steady S9 on 136kHz, with a continuous roaring in the speaker (like a cross between motor spikes and wider pulses), so I am struggling with even the loudest LF signals, let alone weak DX. It extends below LF and up past 7MHz, so even 40m work is difficult. We first noticed it on the BC RX in the kitchen, when listening to a medium wave station from Coventry (which we are JUST outside the coverage area of) which was noisey, as if their TX was running low power - not so. Local and national LW/MW signals intended for this area aren't noticably affected. I went out with a Walkman on Monday trying to DF it and it is easily detectable beyond the block our house is on - peaking about 200m behind our house, over a busy main road. I couldn't get an accurate fix on it due to local phone lines and buildings giving false nulls, and whilst I was wandering back and forth, a local dog-walker challenged me as to what I was up to and clearly didn't accept my explanation, so I gave up! It's difficult to decide what is causing the noise - the area is very mixed large domestic plots with some shops and tiny industrial units, but mostly housing. From the physical and frequency range it is detectable over, it must be causing BC problems to houses closer than we are, but I imagine most people wouldn't understand what was happening. It is on continuously and must either be a large 'dirty' installation, something very seriously breaking down or possibly one of the new broad-band signalling systems (although I doubt the latter). Whatever it is, whilst it's on, I'm effectively QRT on 136, topband, 80m and 40m; so I need to get to the bottom of it. From what I've said, does anyone know whether the authorities would be sympathetic to tracking it down and getting the owner to clean it up, or am I on my own? Has anyone had any success in similar circumstances? I think Derek had trouble with a noise source last year - did you get it cleaned up, Derek, or did you have to work around it? All hints and suggestions gratefully received....... John G4GVC near Leicester, IO92JP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4373 invoked from network); 4 Jun 1999 22:03:36 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 4 Jun 1999 22:03:36 +0100 Received: (qmail 14383 invoked from network); 4 Jun 1999 21:07:50 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Jun 1999 21:07:50 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10q16c-0007Kr-00; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 22:02:22 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA16292 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:00:54 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA16288 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:00:51 GMT Received: from disp.mindef.nl ([62.200.204.66] helo=u05.mindef.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10q1JD-0006WA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 22:15:23 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from co.disp.mindef.nl (dial-011.pop1.mld.disp.net [62.200.205.11]) by u05.mindef.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA661F for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 22:59:38 +0200 Message-ID: <37583DC0.B208D3CC@co.disp.mindef.nl> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 22:57:38 +0200 From: "J.M. Valstar" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [nl]C-CCK-MCD QXW07201 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: nl,de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "RSGB LF Group" Subject: LF: PA2NJN QRV AGAIN ON 136.5 KHZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Group, Ref. my email of june 2nd, it needs some correction.... Nico's personal packet ads is correct, but during the Field days of the Sterraza Group ( june 5th till monday 14th) you can reach Nico by : pi4hsg@pi8awt.#gro.nld.eu The correct locator is JO33MA (not jo33am) Nico also plans to work crossband 136.5 kHz <--> 3.5 MHz sometimes. Rgds Vy 73 Jaap/ pa3guc From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14783 invoked from network); 5 Jun 1999 14:36:21 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 5 Jun 1999 14:36:21 +0100 Received: (qmail 3550 invoked from network); 5 Jun 1999 13:40:40 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Jun 1999 13:40:40 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10qGcM-0000Z2-00; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 14:36:10 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA23582 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 13:35:52 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA23578 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 13:35:50 GMT Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10qGqK-0005FY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 14:50:36 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-121-229.bellatlantic.net [151.200.121.229]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA04990; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 09:34:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37592819.C11E4EA1@bellatlantic.net> Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 09:37:29 -0400 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Waterfall Programs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org The subject of this query is waterfall programs and sound cards. a) is there any sound card that is better than the others? (Such as "Sound Blaster"?) I am told that some waterfall programs will not play on some laptops. ("Hamview", for instance, does not use standard Win95 calls) b) it would seem better to use a sound card equipped with its own DSP chip, as opposed to a sound card that makes calls to the computer's processor. (Then, it would appear, programmers could write directly to the Sound blaster compatible card and skip using the Windows 95 driver entry points). c) The newest sound cards have on board DSP and cost more. d) What is the experience of this august readership? Thanks and 73 Andre' N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8150 invoked from network); 5 Jun 1999 20:35:16 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 5 Jun 1999 20:35:16 +0100 Received: (qmail 27822 invoked from network); 5 Jun 1999 19:39:37 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Jun 1999 19:39:37 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10qM7Q-0001DZ-00; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:28:36 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA25789 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 19:28:59 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA25785 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 19:28:57 GMT Received: from premium.inrete.it ([194.116.9.4] helo=mailer.inrete.it ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10qMLr-0007e6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:43:32 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from cel266 (pool17-002.dialup.alpcom.it [194.116.17.2]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA20375 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 21:28:15 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990605202808.028b613c@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 20:28:08 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: Waterfall Programs In-reply-to: <37592819.C11E4EA1@bellatlantic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org At 09.37 05/06/99 -0400, you wrote: >The subject of this query is waterfall programs and sound cards. > >a) is there any sound card that is better than the others? (Such as >"Sound Blaster"?) I am told that some waterfall programs will not play >on some laptops. ("Hamview", for instance, does not use standard Win95 >calls) > I am in contact with I2PHD and IK2CZL who developed Hamview. They are modifying the program to run under Win95 and use standard calls, mainly because the new PCS S/B cards are not documented in terms of direct calls. Except for this, different sound cards seem to perform similarly under Spectrogram. I have experience with two different SB16, one older and one newer, and a compatible one, unknown brand. All work fine. I'm currently using a 266 MHz Celeron for this application. 73 - Marco IK1ODO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24808 invoked from network); 5 Jun 1999 22:31:10 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 5 Jun 1999 22:31:10 +0100 Received: (qmail 6633 invoked from network); 5 Jun 1999 21:35:30 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Jun 1999 21:35:30 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10qO26-0001Mq-00; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 22:31:14 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA26828 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 21:31:42 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA26824 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 21:31:39 GMT Received: from merlins.force9.net ([195.166.128.23]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10qOGY-0008S4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 22:46:10 +0100 Received: (qmail 29945 invoked from network); 5 Jun 1999 21:34:30 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by merlins.force9.net with SMTP; 5 Jun 1999 21:34:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 23157 invoked from network); 5 Jun 1999 21:36:00 -0000 Received: from 207.hiper02.shef.dialup.force9.net (HELO prstesv1) (195.166.144.207) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Jun 1999 21:36:00 -0000 Message-ID: <001401beaf9b$133b5600$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Waterfall Programs Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 22:33:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Andre' Spectrogram has worked OK with every sound card I have tried, even old 8-bit ones although of course you are limited to the 8 bit setting. I use it every day with an El-Cheapo card and a 486 motherboard accelerated with an Evergreen 586 thingy, basically the PCs a slug but Spectrogram runs fine! Dave G3YXM. >a) is there any sound card that is better than the others? (Such as >"Sound Blaster"?) I am told that some waterfall programs will not play >on some laptops. ("Hamview", for instance, does not use standard Win95 >calls) > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10928 invoked from network); 6 Jun 1999 00:33:11 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Jun 1999 00:33:11 +0100 Received: (qmail 1578 invoked from network); 5 Jun 1999 23:37:33 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Jun 1999 23:37:33 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10qPw8-0001zU-00; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 00:33:12 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA28045 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:33:46 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA28041 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:33:44 GMT Received: from kodos.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.29]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10qQAc-0000zK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 00:48:11 +0100 Received: from p132.lifford1.tinet.ie ([159.134.235.132] helo=beachwood.tinet.ie) by kodos.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 10qPvr-0004LT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 00:32:56 +0100 Message-ID: <001701beafac$1d212620$84eb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Noise problems Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 00:24:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hi John, Sorry to hear of your noise problem. Don't give up, despite the effect it's having on your reception right now. I had a similar problem up to quite recently, as you know, but I was lucky that it more or less solved itself. However, I had put in train an investigation by a unit in our National Broadcasting organisation , Radio Telefis Eireann, RTE, who check out interference to their broadcasts, since there was an element of that in my case. Seems like you have some of that too. As it happened, before they were to come on site to check, a power line near our house was removed and connected to another circuit, when the Office of Public Works undertood a complete restoration of a national monument, just across the field from our house. The Celtic cross, dating from the 6th century, is one of the earliest examples of worked stone, producing a simple cross, and is engraved with patterns and figures. It has been moved slightly to a purpose built site and is now roofed over to provide protection. Just as well, for it and for me, since the re-routing of the power line restored my sanity. During my qrn/qrm war, I could be seen with my HF225 rx, prowling about trying to get the source, without effect. When I got set up in the car and drove about, everywhere but my location seemed to be free of noise. This lasted for over 4 months and nearly drove me mad. I kept switching off my radio gear in disgust and then would slink back and switch on again in the vain hope it had somehow gone away. When it did , finally go, I did not trust the situation, still don't, and half expect it to come back at any time. At one time I considered having an rx at a remote site and feeding back the audio, but the sheer effort of finding a site etc etc put me off that idea. If it really does carry on, I feet the radio investigation branch approach would be your best bet. I had a lot of help and advise from many of the LF gang, and it really helped me keep going.....thanks to all for the help. Don't give up , John, we want you back on the band. 73' Finbar EI0CF -----Original Message----- From: Kate Moore To: lfgroup Date: 03 June 1999 09:07 Subject: LF: Noise problems >I guess it had to happen eventually; after months of generally low-noise RX >on LF, I have suddenly got a serious local QRN problem. It started abruptly >at the beginning of last week and has been on continuously since then. The >'850 s-meter reads a steady S9 on 136kHz, with a continuous roaring in the >speaker (like a cross between motor spikes and wider pulses), so I am >struggling with even the loudest LF signals, let alone weak DX. It extends >below LF and up past 7MHz, so even 40m work is difficult. > > We first noticed it on the BC RX in the kitchen, when listening to a medium >wave station from Coventry (which we are JUST outside the coverage area of) >which was noisey, as if their TX was running low power - not so. Local and >national LW/MW signals intended for this area aren't noticably affected. I >went out with a Walkman on Monday trying to DF it and it is easily >detectable >beyond the block our house is on - peaking about 200m behind our house, over >a busy main road. I couldn't get an accurate fix on it due to local phone >lines and buildings giving false nulls, and whilst I was wandering back and >forth, a local dog-walker challenged me as to what I was up to and clearly >didn't accept my explanation, so I gave up! > > It's difficult to decide what is causing the noise - the area is very mixed >large domestic plots with some shops and tiny industrial units, but mostly >housing. From the physical and frequency range it is detectable over, it >must >be causing BC problems to houses closer than we are, but I imagine most >people wouldn't understand what was happening. It is on continuously and >must >either be a large 'dirty' installation, something very seriously breaking >down or possibly one of the new broad-band signalling systems (although I >doubt the latter). > > Whatever it is, whilst it's on, I'm effectively QRT on 136, topband, 80m >and 40m; so I need to get to the bottom of it. From what I've said, does >anyone know whether the authorities would be sympathetic to tracking it >down and getting the owner to clean it up, or am I on my own? Has anyone >had any success in similar circumstances? I think Derek had trouble with a >noise source last year - did you get it cleaned up, Derek, or did you have >to work around it? All hints and suggestions gratefully received....... > > > John G4GVC near Leicester, IO92JP > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17930 invoked from network); 6 Jun 1999 08:34:32 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Jun 1999 08:34:32 +0100 Received: (qmail 31465 invoked from network); 6 Jun 1999 07:38:54 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Jun 1999 07:38:54 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10qXS8-000314-00; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 08:34:44 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA31695 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 07:34:26 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA31691 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 07:34:23 GMT Received: from hil-img-8.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.138]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10qXgI-0004SK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 08:49:22 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hil-img-8.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id DAA14962 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 03:34:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 03:33:49 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Weekend Report Equipment To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199906060333_MC2-784F-3A44@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Lowfers, many of you post their weekend activity report here, which I appreciate very much. After a very succesful weekend looking around for longwave stuff on a fleemarket (some of you say "rally") in Hamburg, I would like to post some interesting equipment news over here today. I got hold of a complete mediumwave ship transmitter named DEBEG 7121, including full documentation. This "boatanchor" has got a beautiful large variometer inside. Looking at the schematics, it might be possible to convert it to longwave From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28333 invoked from network); 6 Jun 1999 10:33:21 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Jun 1999 10:33:21 +0100 Received: (qmail 3782 invoked from network); 6 Jun 1999 09:37:45 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Jun 1999 09:37:45 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10qZJ5-0003KU-00; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 10:33:31 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA32336 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 09:33:34 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA32332 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 09:33:32 GMT Received: from man-005.dialup.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.41.6] helo=localhost.localdomain ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10qZXW-0005Ho-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 10:48:27 +0100 Received: (from john@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA11775 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:55:00 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: john set sender to word.factory@zetnet.co.uk using -f Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 22:55:00 -0000 () From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 30 May 1999 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DCF was S9+20 dB on my simple RX and loop, but nothing else heard near Ipswich except _lots_ of QRN. Many thanks to people who did transmit. 73 de G3PAI ---------------------------------- E-Mail: John Rabson Date: 02-Jun-99 Time: 22:49:50 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3067 invoked from network); 6 Jun 1999 11:14:09 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Jun 1999 11:14:09 +0100 Received: (qmail 11064 invoked from network); 6 Jun 1999 10:18:33 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Jun 1999 10:18:33 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10qZwD-0003Tf-00; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 11:13:57 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA32644 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 10:14:04 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA32640 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 10:14:01 GMT Received: from dub-img-10.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.140]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10qaAh-0005aI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 11:28:55 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by dub-img-10.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id GAA21990 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 06:13:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 06:13:12 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Weekend Report Equipment (2nd trial) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199906060613_MC2-7851-E8E2@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Again, my message was chopped off. I try it again ... Hello Lowfers, many of you post their weekend activity report here, which I appreciate very much. After a very succesful weekend looking around for longwave stuff on a fleemarket (some of you say "rally") in Hamburg, I would like to post some interesting equipment news over here today. I got hold of a complete mediumwave ship transmitter named DEBEG 7121, including full documentation. This "boatanchor" has got a beautiful large variometer inside. Looking at the schematics, it might be possible to convert it to longwave. Besides the oscillator (chrystals in the range of 5 MHz, divided by ten, resulting in seven channels between 410 and 500 kHz), most of the following modules look like the broadband stuff we use for LF. Following the oscillator there is a driver stage using BD231/BD230 transistors to achieve an output of about ten watts. This stage is followed by two parallel PA modules using two BDY58 each in push/pull configuration. Those modules look very similar to the design G0MRF uses. The output transformer has got three taps to be able to configure the system for antenna length between 12m and more than 50m, as stated in the documentation. The following variometer is simly in series with the longwire antenna, a system that we on LF also typically use. An antenna current meter between the PA modules and the variometer allows to match the system for best output. Interesting is the handwritten antenna current for various frequencies that were noted by the ship's radio operator when the unit was still in operation. With the main antenna, they achieved antenna currents between 6.25 and 7.25 Amperes! Considering the 130 Watts this transmitter delivers, this results in a loss resistance of about 2.5 Ohms, a value most of us only can dream about (I have got losses in the range of 100 Ohms!). Besides this straighforward transmitter design, the unit also contains an AF module to allow to modulate the PA with a 730 Hz AF tone to achieve A2 instead of A1. The unit runs on 28 Volt at 18 Amperes max. in A2. This transmitter was relatively cheap (80.- DM) and more of them might show up, now, after most of the European authorities have decided to stop operation on 500 kHz. It might be worth looking for those units. I will keep you posted on successes or failures in getting this unit into operation on 136 kHz (btw: has anyone thought about asking for an allocation for the amateur service between 410 and 500 kHz? This might save me from converting this transmitter ;-). The second device I got hold of looks like a giant (60 lbs) synthesized SSB Exiter named "Schlumberger SSB 30". No documentation, but this thing produces an output frequency that can be adjusted between 300 Hz and 32 MHz (!) in 1 Hz (!) steps. No documentation, so I have to find out what it does. Maybe an easy way to get an SSB (respectively AFSK, PSK31, Hell) signal produced on 136 kHz? I will keep you posted. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) P.S.: I will put some photos of those units onto my homepage (http://www.dk8kw.home.pages.de) later this week. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7457 invoked from network); 6 Jun 1999 11:50:59 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Jun 1999 11:50:59 +0100 Received: (qmail 17647 invoked from network); 6 Jun 1999 10:55:24 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Jun 1999 10:55:24 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10qaWC-0003a0-00; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 11:51:08 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA00220 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 10:51:18 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA00216 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 10:51:16 GMT Received: from disp.mindef.nl ([62.200.204.66] helo=u05.mindef.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10qaki-0005oj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 12:06:08 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from co.disp.mindef.nl (dial-046.pop2.mld.disp.net [62.200.207.46]) by u05.mindef.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA2F8 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 12:50:23 +0200 Message-ID: <375A51EE.29347686@co.disp.mindef.nl> Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 12:48:16 +0200 From: "J.M. Valstar" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [nl]C-CCK-MCD QXW07201 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: nl,de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "RSGB LF Group" Subject: LF: PA2NJN NOT QRV fm Smeerling on LF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Group, Nico informed me, that he is unable to receive on the LF band due to heavy QRN(N). The QRNN is present in the lower bands. Nico tried out several receiving antenna's. Yesterday he was unable to hear even the strongest LF stations. This QRNN seems to be present constantly, so the LF experiments on 'Smeerling' are stopped. Yesterday (saturday june 5th) reports from location JO33EI 14:25z OZ1KMR 136.50 rst 579 (quite strong!) 14:33z PA0CC 136.43 rst 559 14:35z OZ5N 136.40 rst 569 (new station to me) regards and best 73 Jaap/pa3guc From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10940 invoked from network); 6 Jun 1999 15:35:32 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Jun 1999 15:35:32 +0100 Received: (qmail 23337 invoked from network); 6 Jun 1999 14:39:56 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Jun 1999 14:39:56 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10qdzs-0004J9-00; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 15:34:00 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA02200 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 14:33:45 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA02196 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 14:33:42 GMT Received: from mailout05.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.153]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10qeDr-0007Np-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 15:48:27 +0100 Received: from fwd04.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.164]) by mailout05.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 10qdz4-0005ID-00; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 16:33:10 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (087321565-0001(btxid)@[62.157.16.238]) by fwd04.btx.dtag.de id ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 16:33:03 +0200 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 16:33:03 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <199906060613_MC2-7851-E8E2@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: LF: Weekend Report Equipment (2nd trial) X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-online.de From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Dear Geri, your rallye report reminds me of my my time being a wireless operator on german ships in 1956-58. But I had simpler types of transmitters, one big valve in the VFO, two of the same type in parallel in the PA, both stages tuned by variometers on ceramic forms, ganged by a chain like those from a bicycle . . . 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW schrieb: > > Hello Lowfers, > > After a very succesful weekend looking around for longwave > stuff on a fleemarket (some of you say "rally") in Hamburg, I would > like to post some interesting equipment news over here today. > > I got hold of a complete mediumwave ship transmitter named > DEBEG 7121, including full documentation. This "boatanchor" > has got a beautiful large variometer inside. I suppose this variometer will be too small for LF but may be used as the variable part of an LF variometer if a fixed coil is added. > Looking at the schematics, it might be possible to convert it to > longwave. Besides the oscillator (chrystals in the range of > 5 MHz, divided by ten, resulting in seven channels between > 410 and 500 kHz), most of the following modules look like > the broadband stuff we use for LF. Following the oscillator > there is a driver stage using BD231/BD230 transistors to > achieve an output of about ten watts. This stage is followed by > two parallel PA modules using two BDY58 each in push/pull > configuration. Those modules look very similar to the design > G0MRF uses. The output transformer has got three taps to be > able to configure the system for antenna length between 12m > and more than 50m, as stated in the documentation. For conversion to LF the inductance of the output transformers may be too low due to the frequency difference! You have to find out. > The following variometer is simply in series with the longwire > antenna, a system that we on LF also typically use. An antenna > current meter between the PA modules and the variometer > allows to match the system for best output. > > Interesting is the handwritten antenna current for various > frequencies that were noted by the ship's radio operator > when the unit was still in operation. With the > main antenna, they achieved antenna currents between > 6.25 and 7.25 Amperes! Considering the 130 Watts this > transmitter delivers, this results in a loss resistance of about > 2.5 Ohms, a value most of us only can dream about > (I have got losses in the range of 100 Ohms!). I have losses in the same order. When with SIEMENS I have met an old engineer who had designed marine transmitters with TELEFUNKEN before the second world war. He said that the output match for these transmitters were ok under the assumption that all transmitter power is dissipated in the loss resistance of the antenna variometer. That means: Practically no ground resistance of the ship herself! Therefore there is a need to get amateur stations on museum ships etc qrv on LF! > > Besides this straighforward transmitter design, the unit > also contains an AF module to allow to modulate the > PA with a 730 Hz AF tone to achieve A2 instead of > A1. The unit runs on 28 Volt at 18 Amperes max. in A2. This has been done much simpler in the old transmitters. Most ships had DC mains on board, and therefore a motor-generator converted DC to 220 Volts AC 500 Hz (!!). The mains transformer of the transmitters converted this 500 Hz into a suitable voltage for the tube heaters and for the plate voltage, and the energy to modulate the transmitter for A2 had also been taken from this source. We have been told that those 500 Hz generators were first used in the spark transmitter age, to provide a voltage peak every 1/1000 second for the spark gap. When the spark age came to an end in the early twenties the motor-generators were still in good shape, and therefore TELEFUNKEN (and I suppose other manufactureres too) decided to design the new tube transmitters for a 500 Hz supply. > > This transmitter was relatively cheap (80.- DM) and > more of them might show up, now, after most of the European > authorities have decided to stop operation on 500 kHz. It might > be worth looking for those units. I will keep > you posted on successes or failures in getting this unit > into operation on 136 kHz (btw: has anyone thought about asking > for an allocation for the amateur service between > 410 and 500 kHz? This might save me from converting > this transmitter ;-). > YES, I DID, when measuring the ground loss of my LF aerial and calculating its radiation resistance! All this would be much more favourable on MF! But on MF I would suggest to use a frequency band around 410 kHz, the former direction finding frequency, and slightly higher. Because we would get into trouble when using the range 454 kHz to 480 kHz where the (final) I.F.s of many receivers are situated. > The second device I got hold of looks like a giant (60 lbs) > synthesized SSB Exiter named "Schlumberger SSB 30". > No documentation, but this thing produces an output > frequency that can be adjusted between 300 Hz and > 32 MHz (!) in 1 Hz (!) steps. No documentation, so I have > to find out what it does. Maybe an easy way to get an SSB > (respectively AFSK, PSK31, Hell) signal produced > on 136 kHz? I will keep you posted. There will be many applications, also on HF and even higher, but you have to find out. But - How long it will take to QSY? This is often a problem with this kind of equipment. 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12959 invoked from network); 6 Jun 1999 21:46:59 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Jun 1999 21:46:59 +0100 Received: (qmail 29000 invoked from network); 6 Jun 1999 20:51:22 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Jun 1999 20:51:22 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10qjnj-0005cU-00; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 21:45:51 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA05901 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 20:46:08 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA05897 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 20:46:00 GMT Received: from mashie.force9.net ([195.166.128.30]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10qk1x-0001Z6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 22:00:33 +0100 Received: (qmail 10637 invoked from network); 6 Jun 1999 20:45:01 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Jun 1999 20:45:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 9013 invoked from network); 6 Jun 1999 20:50:26 -0000 Received: from 229.hiper02.shef.dialup.force9.net (HELO prstesv1) (195.166.144.229) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Jun 1999 20:50:26 -0000 Message-ID: <003101beb05d$dc87ffa0$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Weekend conditions Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 21:47:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Dear all. My local noise was off on Saturday and Sunday mornings so I was listening quite a lot on 136 and it seemed that conditions were bad. DF2PY was way down on his normal signal... were you running the normal system Wolf?... and HB9ASB was only workable in QRSS. On a good day I can hear Toni Q5 at normal speed. Closer stations were at normal strength. Has anyone any idea why this may be? Are there some particular atmospheric conditions at the moment? Apart from constant rain and lightning of course! 73, Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28954 invoked from network); 6 Jun 1999 23:15:29 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Jun 1999 23:15:29 +0100 Received: (qmail 25174 invoked from network); 6 Jun 1999 22:19:56 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Jun 1999 22:19:56 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10ql4n-00062k-00; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 23:07:33 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA06858 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 22:08:01 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA06854 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 22:07:58 GMT Received: from tantalum.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.80]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10qlJE-0002CD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 23:22:28 +0100 Received: from [212.140.107.29] (helo=default) by tantalum.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10ql3t-0007TE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 23:06:38 +0100 Message-ID: <000401beb068$e97fb260$1d6b8cd4@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Cluster spots 5/6th June Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 23:03:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
   Hello all, well I am a little embarassed this weekend....the cluster spots
   looks like my personal log! I guess the continental stations were deeply
   involved in Field Day, or else wiped out by noise.
   I suppose to be slightly useful I ought to declare my, less that optimum,
   receive set up. I am using a 16 turn 1.2m diameter loop made of multi-pair
   telephone cable. It tunes with about 650pF and is tapped at 2 turns with
   about 7 metres of 50 ohm coax to the receiver, which is an AOR 7030+
   fitted with a Collins 500Hz CW filter. The audio goes to a PC running
   Mike Cook's FFTDSP4 (prefered) or Hamview on a genuine Creative Labs SB16.
   (I found the on-motherboard SB16 emulator did strange things but almost
   worked ok with FFTDSP, but would not display with Hamview....both run
   under DOS5) There is the slightest sign of 70Hz scan harmonics on FFTDSP
   or 90Hz on Hamview. The machine that runs WIN95 totally destroys 136 so I
   dont run spectrogram, which is a pity. The loop is indoors at the moment
   and is orientated WNW/ESE. I could see a trace for DF2PY but he was just
   too weak for me to copy. (similarly with G3AQC...both Sunday)
   For my own purposes I have defined a 'measure' of the qrn in 'CPM' .....
   well  - Crashes per Minute! as counted on FFTDSP.
   Sat. was quite good at 1CPM from 0930Z to about 1400Z, when it rose to 5. It
   stayed between 3 and 6 through to 1630Z.
   Sunday started well at 1 at 0930Z but rose to 4 by 1027Z and 6 by 1046Z. It
   was up to 10 by 1100Z and 20 to 24 by 1200Z a sign of things to come later,
   I suppose, as the thermally generated storms brewed up.
 
   136.9  DF2PY        1-Jun-1999 2007Z  calling cq - hvy qrn         <DK8KW>
G3NYK de GB7DXM    6-Jun 2043Z >
  1800.0  G3XDV        6-Jun-1999 1154Z  slow cw cq 137.75khz         <G3NYK>
  1800.0  PA0LQ        6-Jun-1999 1128Z  wkg g3yxm 136.65khz          <G3NYK>
  1800.0  G3YXM        6-Jun-1999 1125Z  cq 136.65khz                 <G3NYK>
  1800.0  G3XDV        6-Jun-1999 1112Z  slow cw cq 137.75khz         <G3NYK>
  1800.0  PA0LQ        6-Jun-1999 1027Z  in qso 136.80 khz            <G3NYK>
  1800.0  G3XDV        6-Jun-1999 0935Z  cq 137.05khz                 <G3NYK>
  1800.0  G3YXM        6-Jun-1999 0930Z  slow cw 137.75khz            <G3NYK>
  1800.0  G3YXM        5-Jun-1999 1619Z  cq 137.05khz                 <G3NYK>
  1800.0  G3KEV        5-Jun-1999 1535Z  cq 136.20khz                 <G3NYK>
  1800.0  PA0CC        5-Jun-1999 1433Z  clg oz1kmr 136.4khz          <G3NYK>
  1800.0  OZ1KMR       5-Jun-1999 1432Z  cq 136.50khz                 <G3NYK>
  1800.0  PA2NJN       5-Jun-1999 1400Z  test 136.50khz               <G3NYK>
  1800.0  DJ1RL        5-Jun-1999 1158Z  on 136.9 kHz in qso          <DF2PY>
  1800.0  G3YXM        5-Jun-1999 1145Z  cq 137.05khz                 <G3NYK>
  1800.0  G3BDQ        5-Jun-1999 1006Z  cq 136.55khz                 <G3NYK>
  1800.0  G3XDV        5-Jun-1999 0958Z  now wkg gw4alg 136.35khz     <G3NYK>
  1800.0  G3XDV        5-Jun-1999 0953Z  cq 137.0khz                  <G3NYK>
  1800.0  G3YXM        5-Jun-1999 0951Z  cq 136.9 khz                 <G3NYK>
  1800.0  DF2PY        4-Jun-1999 1735Z  == CQ-ing on 136.9 kHz ==    <DF2PY>
G3NYK de GB7DXM    6-Jun 2044Z >
 I hope that proves interesting, thanks to Wolf for breaking the monotony
 in the last column.
 Cheers de Alan G3NYK
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29976 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 08:40:43 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 08:40:43 +0100 Received: (qmail 13600 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 07:45:13 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 07:45:13 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10qtzP-0006Tl-00; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 08:38:35 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA12208 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 07:37:52 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA12188 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 07:37:37 GMT Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10quCs-00053M-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 08:52:30 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA08502 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:42:31 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990607083439.2e479846@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 08:34:39 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Weekend conditions In-reply-to: <003101beb05d$dc87ffa0$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org At 21:47 6/06/99 +0100, you wrote: >Dear all. > >My local noise was off on Saturday and Sunday mornings so I was listening >quite a lot on 136 and it seemed that conditions were bad. DF2PY was way >down on his normal signal... were you running the normal system Wolf?... >and HB9ASB was only workable in QRSS. On a good day I can hear Toni Q5 at >normal speed. Closer stations were at normal strength. >Has anyone any idea why this may be? Are there some particular atmospheric >conditions at the moment? Apart from constant rain and lightning of course! > >73, Dave G3YXM. > > I had very little time this weekend, so I was QRV on LF only on saturday morning for about 1 hour. Only station heard was HB9ASB and I can conform the Toni was about 10 - 15 dB down on his normal signalstrength, barely 319. 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1124 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 08:46:34 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 08:46:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 11184 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 07:51:01 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 07:51:01 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10qu65-0006dI-01; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 08:45:29 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA12729 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 07:45:07 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA12701 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 07:44:52 GMT Received: from artemis.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.126]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10quJr-0005E1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 08:59:43 +0100 Received: from pc171.geog.le.ac.uk ([143.210.151.171] helo=kate) by artemis.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10qu52-0001uZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 08:44:24 +0100 Message-ID: <001901beb0b8$a947f950$ab97d28f@kate.geog.le.ac.uk> From: "Kate Moore" To: "lfgroup" Subject: LF: Noise update Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 08:37:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org First, a big thanks to Simon Lloyd-Hughes, G8AFN, G3XDV, G3RXH, G4FKK, G0MRF and G3YXM for encouragement, comments and ideas. All very useful stuff which is helping me to work on the noise problem, and proves the wonderful value of this reflector. I have been quite busy over the weekend, so haven't had much time to persue things, but here is an update of results so far. Unfortunately, the noise on our own BC RX is just below the level to cause any noticable interference to any of the main service broadcast signals (R4, R5 etc.) or the local BBC/IBA MW stations (whose antennas I can see from here). Virgin 1214 does have some noise on it, but is only intrusive during speech. Although it is detectable from below 70kHz to above 20MHz on the TS-850, it isn't as blanket 'wide-band' as I thought, and more careful tuning has revealed some noticable peaks and troughs. It is, however, difficult to detect a regular pattern, so I suspect these are due to resonances in wiring connected to the source. A very interesting observation is that I was previously tuning in far too narrow a bandwidth to properly analyse the signal characteristics. Through a CW or even SSB filter, the noise sounds a 'roaring' hash and spectrally seems random. However, when I switch to AM with 6KHz filters in, it becomes much more raspy, and feeding the audio into a 'scope reveals a sharp (but wobbly and ringing) pulse with a main repetition rate of 10mS superimposed with a pulse at 20mS - surprise, surprise 100Hz and 50Hz!! Looking in that mode/B-W using a spectrogram shows the following lines: 50Hz weak 100Hz very strong 150Hz strong 200Hz strong 250Hz fairly weak 300Hz fairly weak 400Hz fairly strong 500Hz fairly strong 600Hz fairly weak 700Hz and above at 100Hz intervals, weak This seems consistent with the 'wandering' nature of the PRF on the 'scope. I went out again with the Walkman, listening to a peak around 1340kHz, but still couldn't get a consistent fix on it. Walking around adjacent blocks, the strength and nulls vary in a confusing way, but it is certainly audible over a very wide area. What was especially interesting was that as I walked past the numerous telephone poles around here, the noise level increased significantly as I passed SOME of them. All the poles where the noise increased had a wire running down the pole into the ground, but NOT all the poles that had a drop-wire produced an increase in noise! Whether these are acting as radiators or merely 'receive antennas' I wouldn't like to say. The local digital exchange is actually on the corner of my block, but the noise didn't noticibly peak as I walked past it and the bearing I get from home is in the perpendicular direction!! I think this is going to be a tricky one to DF...... If anyone has any further ideas from the above, I'd be really pleased to hear from you. The noise was on continuously all weekend, so I have been QRT. John G4GVC near Leicester, IO92JP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24304 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 10:14:42 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 10:14:42 +0100 Received: (qmail 25941 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 09:19:12 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 09:19:12 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10qvQC-0008ET-00; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:10:20 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA18922 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:09:49 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA18890 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:09:27 GMT Received: from tk1.ihug.co.nz ([203.29.160.13] helo=smtp1.ihug.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10qvcY-0006uJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:24:13 +0100 Received: from test (p10-max2.chc.ihug.co.nz [207.214.13.10]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id VAA08014 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:05:54 +1200 Message-ID: <001001beb0c4$f8436ec0$0a0dd6cf@test> From: "Dave Brown" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001901beb0b8$a947f950$ab97d28f@kate.geog.le.ac.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Noise update Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:02:38 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org John- re the noise problem. Were the poles with the 'noisy' down wires actually phone line poles or power line poles? Analysis you have done so far suggests the noise is mains related and sourced so it would be surprising if the poles in these cases were phone line poles; but possible if the noise was coming from the exchange, a possibility you seem to have eliminated at this stage. Have you listened near a power distribution xfmr yet? Could be either pole or ground cubicle mounted depending on area etc. Perhaps the noisy down wires were pole mounted transformer grounds? Noise on the earth wires from distribution xfmrs may help indicate if the noise is on the 11 or 33 kV network feeding it/them or not. If you can establish which side of the xfmr has the worst noise you may be on the way to localising the source but a clipon CT on the ground wire/wires may be needed to prove this as receiver listening can be counter-productive due to the radiation from all the myriad wires the energy can couple into and propagate quite long distances over. 73 Dave ZL3FJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15647 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 15:12:54 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 15:12:54 +0100 Received: (qmail 109 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 14:17:24 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 14:17:24 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10r07q-0002UX-00; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:11:42 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA28337 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:10:19 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA28333 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:10:17 GMT Received: from tmsl.tms-ltd.com ([62.172.160.226] ident=firewall-user) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10r0Kk-0002AE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:25:02 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by tmsl.tms-ltd.com; id PAA15466; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:15:27 +0100 (BST) Received: from cerberus.tms-ltd.com(193.150.185.28) by tmsl.tms-ltd.com via smap (3.2) id xma015457; Mon, 7 Jun 99 15:15:19 +0100 Received: by CERBERUS with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:08:39 +0100 Message-ID: <72FDA264F006D3119F190090273A8D210D1F20@tmst9400.tms-ltd.com> From: "Cleall Peter" To: "'Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: Re: LF Waterfall programmes Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:09:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Re Waterfall programmes This dinasaur is still running with Windows 3.1 and DOS 6.2 So while this thread is running on the reflector I wondered if there was any advise beyond buying a new operating system. I am running a PC with 233Mhz clock, cyrix 300 MMX chip set, 32M Ram and a creative labs soundblaster 16. First I downloaded FFTDSP42, which I believed should run on my system, but it kept coming up with " Divider overload " error messages and bringing my machine to a halt. I then downloaded spectrogram to discover the current version is for Windows 95 I have found a very early version of spectrogram which I am running , it has been useful to look at spectrums from strong signals like DCF39 , but I have not found a way of setting it to receive any QRSS signals other than G3LDO and G3YXM both of which are well above the noise floor. Can you advise me of a source for a suitable program that will run on my DOS or Windows 3.1 set up. Am I wasting my time, do I have to go out and get a bigger hard drive and upgrade to Windows 95 or 98 or do you no better. thanks in anticipation peter G8AFN From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18710 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 15:23:23 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 15:23:23 +0100 Received: (qmail 1615 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 14:27:53 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 14:27:53 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10r0IA-0002Z2-00; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:22:22 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA28469 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:22:37 GMT X-Priority: 3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA28465 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:22:34 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [195.102.240.137] (helo=mserv1b.u-net.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10r0Wd-0002Ec-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:37:19 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10r0H9-0004KK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:21:19 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Mon, 07 Jun 1999 15:18:35 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:19:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Weekend report 6/7 June Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Saturday 6 June Low local noise and static. Heard G3YXM (599); G3BDQ (58/99); G6RO (539). Worked GW4ALG (559/569). Sunday 7 June Mostly very low local noise all day Sked with IK1ODO using QRSs but nothing seen. Saw QRSs signals from HB9ASB ('O') and DJ5BV ('O'). Heard G3YXM (599); GW4ALG (559); PA0LQ (549); DF2PY (339); G6NB (549); G8RW (569); EI0CF (439). Worked a new one: G3AQC in Chichester (gave 529, got 339). He is the 60th station I have heard on 136kHz. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22105 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 15:34:26 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 15:34:26 +0100 Received: (qmail 3277 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 14:38:57 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 14:38:57 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10r0Sd-0002fJ-00; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:33:11 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA28570 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:33:31 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA28566 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:33:29 GMT Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10r0hB-0002NF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:48:13 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-125-171.bellatlantic.net [151.200.125.171]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA02028; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <375BD778.E2DD338E@bellatlantic.net> Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 10:30:16 -0400 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: LF Waterfall programmes References: <72FDA264F006D3119F190090273A8D210D1F20@tmst9400.tms-ltd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cleall Peter G8AFN wrote: > Re Waterfall programmes > [...] > I am running a PC with 233Mhz clock, cyrix 300 MMX chip set, 32M Ram and a > creative labs soundblaster 16. > > First I downloaded FFTDSP42, which I believed should run on my system, but > it kept coming up with " Divider overload " error messages and bringing my > machine to a halt. a) your machine should be well capable of running under Win98b) but of course this would mean converting all your files etc, to new software... :-( c) by the way FFTDSP will _not_ run under WinNT (I just tried without success, and its author confirmed it) 73 Andre' N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13386 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 19:48:58 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 19:48:58 +0100 Received: (qmail 12184 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 18:53:29 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 18:53:29 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10r4Ko-0003Pe-00; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 19:41:23 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA30695 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 18:22:20 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA30691 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 18:22:17 GMT Received: from mailout04.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10r4GU-0004Ce-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 19:36:54 +0100 Received: from fwd04.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.164]) by mailout04.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 10r41b-0002jR-00; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 20:21:31 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (320057114934-0001(btxid)@[62.158.46.89]) by fwd04.btx.dtag.de id ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 20:21:22 +0200 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 20:21:22 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: gjerning@flash.net, ve7im@mail.comox.island.net, Kerstin.Blau@t-online.de Subject: LF: cndx on lw last weekend X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 320057114934-0001@t-online.de From: "DF2PY" Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Lowfers ! Last weekend was kind of poor on LW ! Worked locals like DF8ZR and DJ1RL and only Dx was PA0LQ on sunday.QRN was low- but as we all know the mainland had enough T&L ,so i guess the lacking QRN was due to higher absorbtion on the band. Still try to CQ once in a while - but sometimes i get the " Robinson Crusoe- Syndrom " ,feel like on a lonely island (hi).Did not hear a beep fom Nico-last time i worked him with a huge 599 sig from his location-wonder what happened ? Hopefully more friends get more wires,transistors and tubes tied together in the near future and raise operating voltages to break the monotony of the white hush on longwave. Did not get to put more top-load on my vertikal-think the weekend might do it. BTW a medium-wave variometer is very good in series with a fixed inductivity for matching-normally they are made from HF-litz-wire which reduces the current losses nicely,especially at the feed point. 73 and many DX on lw ! de wolf -df2py- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21831 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 20:15:19 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 20:15:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 15222 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 19:19:50 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 19:19:50 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10r4qZ-0003dA-00; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 20:14:11 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA31534 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 19:14:34 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA31529 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 19:14:29 GMT Received: from premium.inrete.it ([194.116.9.4] helo=mailer.inrete.it ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10r54y-0004g8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 20:29:05 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from cel266 (pool17-129.dialup.alpcom.it [194.116.17.129]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA16810 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:13:47 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990607191152.02be7918@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 19:11:52 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: LF: Noisy and cracking band In-reply-to: <000401beb068$e97fb260$1d6b8cd4@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org At 23.03 06/06/99 +0100, Alan wrote: > For my own purposes I have defined a 'measure' of the qrn in 'CPM' ..... > - Crashes per Minute! as counted on FFTDSP. Here we need kCPM and MCPM !!! Then, FPM (flashes of a neon lamp in parallel to the antenna...) And MMQPD (Mixer Mosfet Quads Per Day) ... ouch ... 73 de IK1ODO Marco Rivalta, ITALY JN35SA (N 45 01' 25.6", E 7 31' 09.4") From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21836 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 20:15:20 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 20:15:20 +0100 Received: (qmail 7539 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 19:19:48 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 19:19:48 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10r4qV-0003cr-00; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 20:14:07 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA31532 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 19:14:32 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA31524 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 19:14:28 GMT Received: from premium.inrete.it ([194.116.9.4] helo=mailer.inrete.it ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10r54w-0004g6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 20:29:02 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from cel266 (pool17-129.dialup.alpcom.it [194.116.17.129]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA16798 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:13:44 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990607190721.00719d4c@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 19:07:21 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: LF: Weekend report 6/7 June In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sunday 7 June Low local noise in the morning (strange). Active from 0700z, calling in QRSs. Sked with G3XDV,but no QSO... HRD HB9ASB, quite low (429 QRN?) Seen G3YXM in QSO with Toni; it would have been an 'M' with QSB. Called Dave, but no answer (Dave, I was on your QRG at .720; Toni was at .730 . I called you during the last over of Toni) QRM rising after midday. Conditions here continue to be very perturbated, with strong thunderstorms over the Alps practically every day, and the relative QRN. Look to the Meteosat pics, you may see the storm cells. Also the soil is wet, and the antenna current only 85% of the usual (winter) maximum. See you in November! 73 de IK1ODO Marco Rivalta, ITALY JN35SA (N 45 01' 25.6", E 7 31' 09.4") From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9533 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 22:54:28 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 22:54:28 +0100 Received: (qmail 28624 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 21:58:59 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 21:58:59 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10r7KU-0004G8-00; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 22:53:14 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA00789 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:52:31 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA00785 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:52:28 GMT Received: from mashie.force9.net ([195.166.128.30]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10r7Xn-0005ug-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 23:06:59 +0100 Received: (qmail 2574 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 21:51:36 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 21:51:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 12692 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 21:57:02 -0000 Received: from 489.hiper01.shef.dialup.force9.net (HELO prstesv1) (195.166.143.233) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 21:57:02 -0000 Message-ID: <000c01beb130$50b77720$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Weekend report 6/7 June Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 22:54:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Marco, I thought I could see something but no copy, very strange... If you could see me why could I not see you? Is North to South propagation better than South to North at the moment? Less static here now but it has been very bad with heavy rain... some summer! 73, Dave G3YXM > >Seen G3YXM in QSO with Toni; it would have been an 'M' with QSB. >Called Dave, but no answer (Dave, I was on your QRG at .720; Toni >was at .730 . I called you during the last over of Toni) > >QRM rising after midday. > >Conditions here continue to be very perturbated, with strong >thunderstorms over the Alps practically every day, and the relative >QRN. Look to the Meteosat pics, you may see the storm cells. > >Also the soil is wet, and the antenna current only 85% of the usual >(winter) maximum. > >See you in November! > > >73 de IK1ODO Marco > >Rivalta, ITALY JN35SA (N 45 01' 25.6", E 7 31' 09.4") > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8480 invoked from network); 8 Jun 1999 00:33:21 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 8 Jun 1999 00:33:21 +0100 Received: (qmail 14162 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 23:37:54 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 23:37:54 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10r8sK-00052G-00; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 00:32:16 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA02132 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 23:32:48 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA02128 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 23:32:45 GMT Received: from m1.boston.juno.com ([205.231.100.199]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10r96m-0006uv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 00:47:12 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m1.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id ECJZ5KVF; Mon, 07 Jun 1999 19:31:24 EDT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 19:29:02 -0400 Subject: Re: LF: cndx on lw last weekend Message-ID: <19990607.192902.-93783.2.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Bob RIESE" Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Where is a source for Litz wire / price and availability Bob K3DJC >BTW a medium-wave variometer is very good in series with a fixed >inductivity for >matching-normally they are made from HF-litz-wire which reduces the >current >losses nicely,especially at the feed point. > >73 and many DX on lw ! de wolf -df2py- > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed Return-Path: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 25854 invoked from network); 8 Jun 1999 06:54:10 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 8 Jun 1999 06:54:10 +0100 Received: (qmail 31629 invoked from network); 8 Jun 1999 05:58:42 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Jun 1999 05:58:42 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10rElZ-0005WM-00; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 06:49:41 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA04546 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 05:49:14 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA04542 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 05:49:10 GMT Received: from ns.cro.cz ([193.179.196.2] ident=qmailr) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10rEzb-00011G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 07:04:12 +0100 Received: (qmail 5428 invoked from network); 8 Jun 1999 05:48:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from fw.cro.cz (HELO ns-int.cro.cz) (193.179.197.2) by ns.cro.cz with SMTP; 8 Jun 1999 05:48:57 -0000 Received: from radiohk.hk.cro.cz (ns.hk.cro.cz [172.27.1.2]) by ns-int.cro.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA13878 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 07:48:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc033hk.hk.cro.cz ([172.27.1.33]) by radiohk.hk.cro.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA27183 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 07:48:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by pc033hk.hk.cro.cz with Microsoft Mail id <01BEB183.5466ADC0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz>; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 07:48:42 +-200 Message-ID: <01BEB183.5466ADC0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> From: "Petr Maly" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: LF Waterfall programmes Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 07:48:41 +-200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org I am even older dinosaurus. I was running still DOS 5.0 and Win 3.11 on 80486/60MHz/12MB and the only one thing that recently made me convert to Win 95 was the Spectrogram for Windows 95 you mentioned. The version running in Win 3.11 is not convenient for our purposes I think. Version for Win 95 is modified this way and is worth of changing O/S I believe. It runs reliably even with cheapest sound card I got (ESS1869/ISA). I chose Windows 95, which is NOT "OSR2". This results in two things. Files occupy much less space on HD and it doesn't have 32 bit FAT table so that disks are visible when machine is started from diskette with DOS 5.0. As a network administrator and programmer I always respect KISS method. It means Keep It Simple and Stupid. Otherwise one would get mad from things... Petr, OK1FIG ---------- Od: Cleall Peter[SMTP:Peter.Cleall@tms-ltd.com] Odesláno: 7. cervna 1999 16:09 Komu: 'Rsgb_Lf_Group (E-mail) Predmet: LF: Re: LF Waterfall programmes Re Waterfall programmes This dinasaur is still running with Windows 3.1 and DOS 6.2 So while this thread is running on the reflector I wondered if there was any advise beyond buying a new operating system. I am running a PC with 233Mhz clock, cyrix 300 MMX chip set, 32M Ram and a creative labs soundblaster 16. First I downloaded FFTDSP42, which I believed should run on my system, but it kept coming up with " Divider overload " error messages and bringing my machine to a halt. I then downloaded spectrogram to discover the current version is for Windows 95 I have found a very early version of spectrogram which I am running , it has been useful to look at spectrums from strong signals like DCF39 , but I have not found a way of setting it to receive any QRSS signals other than G3LDO and G3YXM both of which are well above the noise floor. Can you advise me of a source for a suitable program that will run on my DOS or Windows 3.1 set up. Am I wasting my time, do I have to go out and get a bigger hard drive and upgrade to Windows 95 or 98 or do you no better. thanks in anticipation peter G8AFN From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2686 invoked from network); 8 Jun 1999 17:52:51 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 8 Jun 1999 17:52:51 +0100 Received: (qmail 14862 invoked from network); 8 Jun 1999 16:57:27 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Jun 1999 16:57:27 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10rP61-0007Ih-00; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 17:51:29 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA10358 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 16:51:03 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA10354 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 16:51:00 GMT Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.157]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10rPJk-0006NM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 18:05:40 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-121-205.bellatlantic.net [151.200.121.205]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA03554; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:53:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <375D4796.9C77882E@bellatlantic.net> Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 12:40:54 -0400 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: CEPT Public Notice -- FINALLY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org An ARRL information sheet on the CEPT Radio Amateur License and the FCC Public Notice are on the ARRL Web site at: http://www.arrl.org/field/regulations/io/cept.pdf (info sheet) http://www.arrl.org/field/regulations/io/cept-ral.pdf (Public Notice) U.S amateurs can use their FCC amateur license to operate in Europe in those countries listed in the public notice. Andre' N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20377 invoked from network); 8 Jun 1999 18:44:50 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 8 Jun 1999 18:44:50 +0100 Received: (qmail 14537 invoked from network); 8 Jun 1999 17:49:25 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Jun 1999 17:49:25 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10rPuS-0007SN-00; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 18:43:36 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA10760 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 17:43:58 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA10755 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 17:43:56 GMT Received: from mailhost.zen.co.uk ([212.23.8.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10rQ8w-0006l4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 18:58:34 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.zen.co.uk (46.godel.zen.co.uk [212.23.16.174]) by mailhost.zen.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA28467 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 17:43:16 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990608151030.007a0100@zen.co.uk> X-Sender: alan.gale@zen.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 15:10:30 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Alan Gale" Subject: Re: LF: Noise update In-reply-to: <001901beb0b8$a947f950$ab97d28f@kate.geog.le.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org At 08:37 99/06/07 +0100, you wrote: >I went out again with the Walkman, listening to a peak around 1340kHz, but >still couldn't get a consistent fix on it. Walking around adjacent blocks, >the strength and nulls vary in a confusing way, but it is certainly audible >over a very wide area. What was especially interesting was that as I walked >past the numerous telephone poles around here, the noise level increased >significantly as I passed SOME of them. All the poles where the noise >increased had a wire running down the pole into the ground, but NOT all the >poles that had a drop-wire produced an increase in noise! Whether these are >acting as radiators or merely 'receive antennas' I wouldn't like to say. The >local digital exchange is actually on the corner of my block, but the noise >didn't noticibly peak as I walked past it and the bearing I get from home is >in the perpendicular direction!! I think this is going to be a tricky one to >DF...... Hi John, I had a similar problem some years back, but instead of contacting the RIS I got in touch with the local power company who sent along an investigator from the Norweb Experimental Department. He connected a scope to the mains via a special plug which 'blanked' the 50 Hz signal and revealed a regular spike on the mains voltage. He then produced a small medium wave portable and a small 'satellite' type dish which was actually an ultrasonic receiver, and proceeded to wander around the area in the direction of the local transformer. Results on the portable showed that the noise peaked up strongly whenever we passed any of the streetlights, and by using the ultrasonic receiver he was able to discover that the culprit was actually a defective photoelectric cell on the top of one of the lights. Some of the earlier models were prone to moisture ingress and could produce thyristor type noise which was fed back along the mains supply to the transformer and all along the supply lines into the houses (and this was present even when the lights were off too!). The local council were contacted and the old lights replaced with newer ones and, touch wood, the problem has never recurred since. It may be worth trying your local electricity company and seeing if they can help, since it's their responsibility to keep the mains clear, even if it's not a 'protected' band that's being affected. The difficult part is often getting in contact with the right department in the first place, though if you know anyone who works in the local company they may be able to put you in contact with someone. Of course things may have changed since privatisation and de-regulation, but if you suspect that it's mains borne it's well worth giving a try. I found the investigator very friendly and helpful, and he even came round for a visit to the shack afterwards! :-) In the case of the ultrasonic receiver, I adapted my Bat Detector and tried this out on a few high voltage power lines and they're great for pinpointing arcing insulators etc. With a MW portable I could only get a general bearing, but the ultrasonic receiver was able to pin the arcing down to withing a few feet! Good luck, don't give up trying, I know it's very frustrating but these problems can often be overcome. 73 for now, Alan. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Gale G4TMV Location: North-West England. IO83VP Lancs 53:39.3N 2:10.6W. Equipment: Kenwood TS830M + Converters + FL3. W & G SPM-3 G5RV, Wellbrook ALA100 & ALA1530 magnetic Loops. Interests: Beacons, Search & Rescue, Maritime, Scanning, TVDX. Website: Interested in any of the above? If so why not pay a visit to my 'Beacons & Utes' website. Website URL: http://www.zen.co.uk/home/page/alan.gale/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20274 invoked from network); 8 Jun 1999 21:30:10 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 8 Jun 1999 21:30:10 +0100 Received: (qmail 4258 invoked from network); 8 Jun 1999 20:34:45 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Jun 1999 20:34:45 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10rSUP-0007q9-00; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 21:28:53 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA12073 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 20:27:31 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA12069 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 20:27:28 GMT Received: from tk2.ihug.co.nz ([203.29.160.14] helo=smtp2.ihug.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10rSh1-000809-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 21:41:56 +0100 Received: from test (p33-max2.chc.ihug.co.nz [207.214.13.33]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA15688 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 08:26:21 +1200 Message-ID: <001e01beb1ed$3a2325a0$0b0dd6cf@test> From: "Dave Brown" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.5.32.19990608151030.007a0100@zen.co.uk> Subject: Re: LF: Noise update Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 08:26:31 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Another possibility for the ultrasonic rx that I have used successfully for the same purpose is a standard gas leak detector as probably used by BT cable jointers etc. Controllers for strings of street lights have been occasionally notorious here too. Dave ZL3FJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3303 invoked from network); 9 Jun 1999 06:41:33 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 9 Jun 1999 06:41:33 +0100 Received: (qmail 601 invoked from network); 9 Jun 1999 05:46:10 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Jun 1999 05:46:10 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10rb1n-0000Vd-00; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 06:35:55 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA16288 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 05:35:25 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA16284 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 05:35:21 GMT Received: from ns.cro.cz ([193.179.196.2] ident=qmailr) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10rbFn-0003pR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 06:50:23 +0100 Received: (qmail 16267 invoked from network); 9 Jun 1999 05:35:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from fw.cro.cz (HELO ns-int.cro.cz) (193.179.197.2) by ns.cro.cz with SMTP; 9 Jun 1999 05:35:08 -0000 Received: from radiohk.hk.cro.cz (ns.hk.cro.cz [172.27.1.2]) by ns-int.cro.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA24804 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 07:35:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc033hk.hk.cro.cz ([172.27.1.33]) by radiohk.hk.cro.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA29752 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 07:34:56 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by pc033hk.hk.cro.cz with Microsoft Mail id <01BEB24A.917C0260@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz>; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 07:34:55 +-200 Message-ID: <01BEB24A.917C0260@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> From: "Petr Maly" To: "'137 kHz'" Subject: LF: My WEB pages Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 07:34:53 +-200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello LowFers! Let me annonce that I have my own WEB pages in the Internet. The address is http://mujweb.cz/www/OK1FIG/index.htm. Please be forgiving and don't expect a large amount of useful info. Firstly these pages are still under construction, secondly I am still beginner on this band. I hope they will be improving by time. BTW during weekend I will be again listening. Still not QRV but working on TX hard. Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15208 invoked from network); 9 Jun 1999 14:56:31 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 9 Jun 1999 14:56:31 +0100 Received: (qmail 29523 invoked from network); 9 Jun 1999 14:00:57 -0000 Received: from punt.unica.co.uk (194.75.183.60) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Jun 1999 14:00:57 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by punt.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10rigq-0001oZ-00; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:46:48 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA20312 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:46:10 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA20308 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:46:08 GMT Received: from tmsl.tms-ltd.com ([62.172.160.226] ident=firewall-user) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10riuU-0007YD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:00:54 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by tmsl.tms-ltd.com; id OAA02718; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:51:32 +0100 (BST) Received: from cerberus.tms-ltd.com(193.150.185.28) by tmsl.tms-ltd.com via smap (3.2) id xma002704; Wed, 9 Jun 99 14:51:08 +0100 Received: by CERBERUS with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:44:15 +0100 Message-ID: <72FDA264F006D3119F190090273A8D210D1F28@tmst9400.tms-ltd.com> From: "Cleall Peter" To: "'Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: Subject: LF: Weekend conditions Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:45:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >From: Dave [dave@picks.force9.co.uk] >Sent: 06 June 1999 21:48 >To: LF Group >Subject: LF: Weekend conditions >Dear all. >My local noise was off on Saturday and Sunday mornings so I was listening >quite a lot on 136 and it seemed that conditions were bad. DF2PY was way >down on his normal signal... were you running the normal system Wolf?... >and HB9ASB was only workable in QRSS. On a good day I can hear Toni Q5 at >normal speed. Closer stations were at normal strength. >Has anyone any idea why this may be? Are there some particular atmospheric >conditions at the moment? Apart from constant rain and lightning of course! >73, Dave G3YXM. I have only just recently started looking at detailed solar solar data and so am no expert. In fact what I have to say may be completely irrelevant and may be totally wrong. No boubt someone will put me right. The only differences I can see during this period is a higher than normal level of proton flux arising from a Proton Event starting at 0245 UTC on 2nd june which kept the figure high for two days. As the level was steadily decaying towards normal there was a second Proton Event about 0930 UTC on 4 june which again raised the levels. After steady decay normal levels were reached again this morning. peter G8AFN From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28722 invoked from network); 10 Jun 1999 20:58:37 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 10 Jun 1999 20:58:37 +0100 Received: (qmail 25188 invoked from network); 10 Jun 1999 20:03:22 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jun 1999 20:03:22 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10sB9g-0004qz-00; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 21:10:28 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA01601 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 19:50:17 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA01597 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 19:50:12 GMT Received: from mailout03.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.151]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10sB4I-0004os-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 21:04:55 +0100 Received: from fwd04.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.164]) by mailout03.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 10sApT-0001tK-00; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 21:49:35 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (320057114934-0001(btxid)@[62.158.46.86]) by fwd04.btx.dtag.de id ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 21:49:29 +0200 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 21:49:29 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: DK7UY@geocities.com Subject: LF: daily avtivity time X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 320057114934-0001@t-online.de From: "DF2PY" Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Lowfers ! After some days with unanswered CQs it came to my mind that due to the low number of active stations on longwave it would be beneficial to establish a activity hour for regular working days.Maybe from 19 to 20 zulu would be ok for the continental and British stations as well.Sunset times of course would be in the middle of that for some more weeks and allow for some interesting propagation studies.i appreciate any feedback on this ! 73 and good dxing de df2py -wolf- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18114 invoked from network); 10 Jun 1999 22:11:56 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 10 Jun 1999 22:11:56 +0100 Received: (qmail 3602 invoked from network); 10 Jun 1999 21:16:41 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Jun 1999 21:16:41 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10sCIa-0005SI-00; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 22:23:44 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA02052 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 21:08:44 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA02048 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 21:08:38 GMT Received: from [203.96.92.1] (helo=mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10sCII-0005SC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 22:23:28 +0100 Received: from locxvcym ([210.55.151.250]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with ESMTP id <19990610211019.FZSV93999.mta1-rme@locxvcym> for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 09:10:19 +1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "ComPact" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: daily avtivity time Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 09:10:30 +1200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <19990610211019.FZSV93999.mta1-rme@locxvcym> Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Good morning all Wolf wrote >After some days with unanswered CQs it came to my mind that due to the low >number of active stations on longwave it would be beneficial to establish a >activity hour for regular working days.Maybe from 19 to 20 zulu would be ok for >the continental and British stations as well.Sunset times of course would be in >the middle of that for some more weeks and allow for some interesting >propagation studies.i appreciate any feedback on this ! With the even smaller number of active stations in ZL/VK it has proved extremely useful to have regular activity times. Every Thursday evening we run a round robin cw session, each station in turn sending 2 minutes of cw, coordinated on 80 metres. There are also regular SSB and CW nets on LF on Tuesday nights and Sunday mornings. These sessions are used for checking out equipment and antenna changes, following propagation changes through the seasons, and just ragchewing. Mike ZL4OL From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed Return-Path: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 15652 invoked from network); 11 Jun 1999 06:51:46 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Jun 1999 06:51:46 +0100 Received: (qmail 26467 invoked from network); 11 Jun 1999 05:56:38 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jun 1999 05:56:38 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10sKNy-0001C3-00; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:01:50 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA06181 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 05:46:33 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA06177 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 05:46:31 GMT Received: from ns.cro.cz ([193.179.196.2] ident=qmailr) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10sKNh-00019C-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:01:33 +0100 Received: (qmail 29707 invoked from network); 11 Jun 1999 05:46:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from fw.cro.cz (HELO ns-int.cro.cz) (193.179.197.2) by ns.cro.cz with SMTP; 11 Jun 1999 05:46:18 -0000 Received: from radiohk.hk.cro.cz (ns.hk.cro.cz [172.27.1.2]) by ns-int.cro.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA11877 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:46:17 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc033hk.hk.cro.cz ([172.27.1.33]) by radiohk.hk.cro.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA02987 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:46:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by pc033hk.hk.cro.cz with Microsoft Mail id <01BEB3DE.75D8B2C0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz>; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:46:05 +-200 Message-ID: <01BEB3DE.75D8B2C0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> From: "Petr Maly" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: daily avtivity time Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:46:04 +-200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org I would appreciate some prefered days/times or even fq's to be stated. I am very enthusiastic of this band but it doesn't mean that I would like to spend the whole summer with headphones on my head. Take a look at the first joke at http://home.t-online.de/home/dk8kw/lw.htm. It is exact. Mind another reason. There is enough stations in UK and western EU. But I am alone in OK with no stations in vicinity and there are no stations in adjacent coutries except DL. Probability of hearing a stn is much lower. It could be also good to let know these times/fq's to non-LF world. If a newcomer tries to listen to this band here and doesn't have info from the reflector (or other source) usually gives up thinking that the band is not alive yet. Petr, OK1FIG ---------- Od: DF2PY[SMTP:df2py@t-online.de] Odesláno: 10. cervna 1999 21:49 Komu: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Kopie: DK7UY@geocities.com Predmet: LF: daily avtivity time Hello Lowfers ! After some days with unanswered CQs it came to my mind that due to the low number of active stations on longwave it would be beneficial to establish a activity hour for regular working days.Maybe from 19 to 20 zulu would be ok for the continental and British stations as well.Sunset times of course would be in the middle of that for some more weeks and allow for some interesting propagation studies.i appreciate any feedback on this ! 73 and good dxing de df2py -wolf- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18791 invoked from network); 11 Jun 1999 22:19:22 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Jun 1999 22:19:22 +0100 Received: (qmail 4829 invoked from network); 11 Jun 1999 21:24:12 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jun 1999 21:24:12 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10sYsL-00000p-00; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 22:30:09 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA13751 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 21:14:42 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA13747 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 21:14:39 GMT Received: from hil-img-8.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.138]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10sYrP-00000L-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 22:29:11 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hil-img-8.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.19) id RAA16851 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 17:13:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 17:12:02 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Internet Longwave Chat To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199906111713_MC2-7915-B5C7@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Lowfers, while surfing through the internet I stepped over a free chat box option for homepages. I thought it might be a good idea to establish a way to communicate directly on the internet without the need for any specific software requirement such as ICQ or a similar. This chat box might be useful especially if you want to have a parallel direct connection to each other while carrying out a test on longwave. If you have a relatively cheap access to the internet, this chat option might be a cheaper solution than a telephone line. Feel free to use it for your purposes. Just sign in with your name or callsign and have fun! Of course, I also do prefer a connection over the air, but this it is not allways possible ... you can reach the longwave chat box through http://www.dk8kw.home.pages.de follow the link "Chat". Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1469 invoked from network); 11 Jun 1999 23:09:25 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Jun 1999 23:09:25 +0100 Received: (qmail 10700 invoked from network); 11 Jun 1999 22:14:15 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Jun 1999 22:14:15 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10sZfL-0000Q8-00; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 23:20:48 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA14088 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 22:06:09 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA14084 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 22:06:07 GMT Received: from mcclure.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.31]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10sZfB-0000Q5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 23:20:37 +0100 Received: from p139.lifford1.tinet.ie ([159.134.235.139] helo=beachwood.tinet.ie) by mcclure.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 10sZQQ-000319-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 23:05:23 +0100 Message-ID: <000301beb456$e1be8820$8beb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: LFsked times. Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 13:38:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Wolf, DF2PY and Mike ZL4OL, have made suggestions regarding sked and activity times for the LF band. As the amount of signals heard on the band seem to have dropped quite a bit in more recent times, this idea appears to be excellent, provided we could get a broadly based agreement as to what times/activity skeds would suit. The advantages would seem to be many, particularly..... 1. Knowing the exact times of activity in advance. 2. More likely to hear and be heard by station as opposed to random use 3. Beacon operation could also be tied in to fixed skeds , without stations having to transmit for long periods, with little or no results ( I know). 4. Cross band operation, again with fixed times and fixed HF freq plus or minus qrm. 5. Linked HF talkback freq, depending on season, ie 160 m useless during the Summer, as we have found. 80m or 40m seem a better bet, but 160m is great during the Winter. However if we make to many sked times, our efforts will be spead over too many possible times and will defeat the object. Certainly Saturday mornings seem popular ( not too early please, I need my sleep, shift work is taking its toll), and after the evening meal/tv news, say 1900, as suggested. Should we come to a conclusion on this, maybe the radio magazines could publish the times/skeds and we might get some more listeners tuning in and then getting going themselves on LF. Best regards to all the LF gand from, Finbar EI0CF Malin Head. -----Original Message----- From: ComPact To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 10 June 1999 22:11 Subject: LF: Re: daily avtivity time >Good morning all > >Wolf wrote >>After some days with unanswered CQs it came to my mind that due to the low > >>number of active stations on longwave it would be beneficial to establish >a >>activity hour for regular working days.Maybe from 19 to 20 zulu would be >ok for >>the continental and British stations as well.Sunset times of course would >be in >>the middle of that for some more weeks and allow for some interesting >>propagation studies.i appreciate any feedback on this ! > >With the even smaller number of active stations in ZL/VK it has proved >extremely useful to have regular activity times. Every Thursday evening we >run a round robin cw session, each station in turn sending 2 minutes of cw, >coordinated on 80 metres. There are also regular SSB and CW nets on LF on >Tuesday nights and Sunday mornings. These sessions are used for checking >out equipment and antenna changes, following propagation changes through >the seasons, and just ragchewing. > >Mike ZL4OL > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6506 invoked from network); 12 Jun 1999 06:16:03 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jun 1999 06:16:03 +0100 Received: (qmail 3912 invoked from network); 12 Jun 1999 05:21:00 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jun 1999 05:21:00 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10sgHw-0003gA-00; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 06:25:04 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA16092 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 05:08:32 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA16088 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 05:08:29 GMT Received: from hil-img-7.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10sgGS-0003g7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 06:23:32 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hil-img-7.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.19) id BAA11055 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 01:08:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 01:07:53 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: daily avtivity time To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199906120108_MC2-7916-1A16@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello friends, Petr, OK1FIG makes a good point regarding information on activity: >If a newcomer tries to listen to this band here and doesn't have info from >the reflector (or other source) usually gives up thinking that the band >is not alive yet. I know that there are many hams around that do not have any access to the internet at all. So if we establish a fixed timeframe for activity (which is a good idea), we also need to find other ways to distribute this information to allow other's to listen or even to establish crossband contacts. Some of those people have at least packet access and I find it surprising how little information on longwave activities is exchanged over that medium. (Just for yor info: although the designtaor VLF is not really correct for the frequency we use, VLF@EU has been established more or less as an information source on longwave activities in packet). A talkback frequency, as proposed by Finbar, EI0CF, is also a good medium to get others that can not transmit yet on LF interested in the band. Look to the VHF-net on 14.345 kHz for example. You can listen to them for a while and get some idea about what is possible if you work MS or EME, for example. As proposed, especially those talkback frequencies could be published in the radio magazines. I personally volunteer to spread any new information regarding fixed skeds/activity times, etc. in packet radio. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13057 invoked from network); 12 Jun 1999 07:20:52 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jun 1999 07:20:52 +0100 Received: (qmail 29456 invoked from network); 12 Jun 1999 06:25:50 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jun 1999 06:25:50 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10shLu-00049Y-00; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 07:33:14 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA16378 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 06:17:56 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA16373 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 06:17:51 GMT Received: from as-img-4.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.147] helo=spamgaad.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10shLZ-00049V-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 07:32:53 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.1) id CAA00015 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 02:17:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 02:17:09 -0400 From: "Dave Sergeant" Subject: LF: daily avtivity time To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199906120217_MC2-7923-FFFA@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >From Dave G3YMC re: the request for a suitable time for 'activity periods' it is worth considering a time rather earlier in the day when band noise is quite a lot lower. I am on (or at least listening) nearly every day around 7am local (0600z) and this would be a good time if there were more activity. At the weekend a time around 0900 (0800z) would perhaps be very suitable. Although the rig is still on in the evenings I operate very little at that time because of high noise levels. 73s Dave G3YMC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29432 invoked from network); 12 Jun 1999 09:47:07 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jun 1999 09:47:07 +0100 Received: (qmail 2727 invoked from network); 12 Jun 1999 08:52:01 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jun 1999 08:52:01 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10sjaP-00059K-00; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 09:56:21 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA17052 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 08:41:04 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA17048 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 08:41:02 GMT Received: from mailout07.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.155]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10sja2-00059H-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 09:55:58 +0100 Received: from fwd12.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.172]) by mailout07.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 10sjLG-0001KE-00; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 10:40:42 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (320057114934-0001(btxid)@[62.157.27.145]) by fwd12.btx.dtag.de id ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 10:40:29 +0200 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 10:40:29 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: DK7UY@geocities.com Subject: LF: Resonance on sked times X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 320057114934-0001@t-online.de From: "DF2PY" Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Lowfers ! Thanks for the numerous suggestions on sked times ! Dave proposed earlier times in the evening,Valerio thinks there is better chances early in the morning due to qrn.Finbar had his point as well.I think this is a good subject to talk about in ssb,maybe on 160 on sunday or during daytime on 20 m as that band will be ok for the friends from Italy as well for talk to Britain.In Germany there is a group that talks on 1874 kc on sundays sometimes beyond the starting hour of the LF-Net-that may jeopardize the whole talk-i try to get them move off.But lets first set up a meeting qrg that as many as can will attend and then we can work from there ! I will be on 136.9 and 136.8 kc for saturday and Sunday mornings and some afternoon as well.The only "DX" i worked on Friday was PA0LQ. Hope to meet u on LF 73 de df2py From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10038 invoked from network); 12 Jun 1999 12:20:22 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jun 1999 12:20:22 +0100 Received: (qmail 19519 invoked from network); 12 Jun 1999 11:25:15 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jun 1999 11:25:15 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10sm1F-0006Es-00; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:32:13 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA18004 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 11:17:07 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA17999 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 11:17:03 GMT Received: from smtp.mail.big-orange.net ([143.179.236.31] helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10sm0x-0006Ep-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:31:55 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.150.110]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA2D18 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:16:34 +0200 Message-ID: <000b01beb4c5$6a6c6c00$6e96b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "RSGB LF Group" Subject: LF: Address OZ1KMR Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:18:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All,
 
Had a QSO with OZ1KMR at 1048 UTC today. Received RST329, sent RST589.
 
He requested direct QSL. But I do not have his address.
 
Can someone provide this?
 
Thanks very much in advance! 
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
JO22GD
D.W. Rollema
V.d. Marckstraat 5
2352 RA Leiderdorp
The Netherlands
Tel. +31 71 589 27 34
or
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19507 invoked from network); 12 Jun 1999 13:25:07 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jun 1999 13:25:07 +0100 Received: (qmail 26438 invoked from network); 12 Jun 1999 12:30:06 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jun 1999 12:30:06 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10sn24-0006hJ-00; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:37:08 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA18507 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:22:07 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA18502 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:22:01 GMT Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10sn1m-0006hG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:36:51 +0100 Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:21:25 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de (PC98237.dial.uni-kiel.de [134.245.98.237]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA21639 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:21:23 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <376250C8.81E28F62@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:21:29 +0200 From: "Peter W. Schnoor" Organization: University of Kiel, Clinic of Nephrology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Address OZ1KMR References: <000b01beb4c5$6a6c6c00$6e96b38f@w8k3f0> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Dick Rollema wrote: > [...] > He requested direct QSL. But I do not have his address. > > Can someone provide this? > OZ1KMR Henrik Krab Solbjergvej 8 DK-6580 Vamdrup 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26745 invoked from network); 12 Jun 1999 14:14:53 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jun 1999 14:14:53 +0100 Received: (qmail 29349 invoked from network); 12 Jun 1999 13:19:45 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jun 1999 13:19:45 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10snnn-000737-00; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:26:27 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA18764 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:11:26 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA18760 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:11:23 GMT Received: from mailout01.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.149]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10snnX-000734-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:26:11 +0100 Received: from fwd02.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.162]) by mailout01.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 10snYn-0007J1-00; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:10:57 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (320057114934-0001(btxid)@[62.158.47.159]) by fwd02.btx.dtag.de id ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:10:49 +0200 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:10:49 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <01BEB24A.917C0260@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> Subject: Re: LF: My WEB pages X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 320057114934-0001@t-online.de From: "DF2PY" Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Petr ! I tried to visit ur web-page but the adress does have a bug in it. Netscape cannot find it,could You try to send the adress again to the lowfer- mail server ??? thanks and hope u get ready with TX soon ! 73 de df2py wolf From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12540 invoked from network); 12 Jun 1999 15:58:36 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jun 1999 15:58:36 +0100 Received: (qmail 4368 invoked from network); 12 Jun 1999 15:03:30 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jun 1999 15:03:30 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10spNU-0007nt-00; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 16:07:24 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA19267 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:52:25 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA19263 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:52:22 GMT Received: from mailout03.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.151]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10spNC-0007nq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 16:07:07 +0100 Received: from fwd14.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.174]) by mailout03.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 10sp8Q-0000Yg-00; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 16:51:50 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (320057114934-0001(btxid)@[193.159.10.117]) by fwd14.btx.dtag.de id ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 16:51:39 +0200 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 16:51:39 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: DK7UY@geocities.com Subject: LF: Miscellaneous stuff X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 320057114934-0001@t-online.de From: "DF2PY" Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Lowfers ! >>From noon on Saturday on ,the T&L approaching renderd LF completely useless in my area.This morning i conducted a few experiments by altering the ground system.I pulled two rolls of "chicken wire" out of the barn and added that to my ground system which up to now only consisted of simple wire.The two-foot wide mesh has pretty good surface as well as good low DC resistance adding to capacitive Rc in parallel.This alteration had only minor change of resonance as a result,but the impedance of the system was altered in the magnitude of about 7 Ohms,that put me in the place to change the generator impedance of my push-pull amp,which was quite a thing to do as i use homemade multistranded HF-Litz wires on a large core.Got that done and works ok now again,so far this had not much of an effect on the HF-current-just a bit.Maybe the improvement in grounding was not that much.I will buy more of the stuff next week ,but i see more promissing action in adding to the top-hat-which is much more difficult to do-but looks like there is no way sneaking around that enterprise to get more current ( and more "mileage" )into the antenna. Maybe some more knowledgeable guys like Dave could put some aspects of that into the mail-reflector to give us hints and kinks . anyways i`ll try to be on tmw around 136.8 /9 . Everybody have a great weekend ! 73 de df2py From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8576 invoked from network); 12 Jun 1999 18:37:42 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jun 1999 18:37:42 +0100 Received: (qmail 11289 invoked from network); 12 Jun 1999 17:42:42 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jun 1999 17:42:42 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10sruI-0000PR-00; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 18:49:26 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA20530 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 17:34:30 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA20526 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 17:34:27 GMT Received: from smtp.mail.big-orange.net ([143.179.236.32] helo=Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10srtx-0000PM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 18:49:06 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.151.85]) by Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA2FD0 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:33:48 +0200 Message-ID: <003001beb4fa$1d8483c0$5597b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Address OZ1KMR Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:28:03 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >OZ1KMR >Henrik Krab >Solbjergvej 8 >DK-6580 Vamdrup > > Dear Peter, Many thanks for your quick service! Harry, PA0LQ, also worked OZ1KMR and I will pass the address on to him as well. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2343 invoked from network); 12 Jun 1999 23:58:52 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jun 1999 23:58:52 +0100 Received: (qmail 26280 invoked from network); 12 Jun 1999 23:03:54 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jun 1999 23:03:54 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10swuc-0002vv-00; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 00:10:06 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA22611 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:52:15 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA22607 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:52:12 GMT Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10swrI-0002rF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 00:06:41 +0100 Received: from [212.140.40.131] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10swbo-0002ba-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 23:50:41 +0100 Message-ID: <000101beb526$0a0902e0$83288cd4@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: The 137MHz RTTY station Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 23:26:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
I left my receiver running into FFTDSP4 at Friday midnight, with the longterm monitor storage enabled (by about 1000Z on Saturday it had accumulated a 24 meg file) The 137.0 RTTY signal was not apparent when I went to bed at about 2330Z. It appeared on the screen at about 0015Z and was quite strong between 0100Z and 0330Z with a peak in strength at about 0300Z. During this part of the night (well morning I suppose) there was a steady background 'crackle' like distant storm activity. At its strongest it was reading 20dB S/N on FFTDSP's 'measuement'. This is about the same as I see for the strongest G stations in good conditions. There is a noticable decline to 0330Z with a marked reduction in the background noise. By 0340Z it was down to 10dB S/N and by 0400 it had totally disappeared from the screen to background noise virtually disappeared at the same time. An interesting point was that the signal faded into the noise for several minutes then rose out of the noise again for about 5 minutes and then faded away all together. This reminds me of the way I have heard the HF bands close to DX when I used to be more active up there. I have not yet investigated the Grey-line for 10th/11th June but I suspect that this may explain why we are not hearing the Halifax N.S. (??) station as much as we used to earlier in the year. (just for identification purposes I make the shift about 75-80Hz  in the 2Hz resolution mode of FFTDSP)
Unfortunately I am unable to log signal strength as only the lightning crashes move the s-meter using my passive loop. As an indication of my sensitivity, I could see DF2PY (136.9 kHz) on my screen on Sat morning at about 6dB S/N but I could not copy his morse. I know it was him from the Cluster spot he put up and I think PA0LQ worked him later.
General activity seemed to start about 0515Z, with the first qso I observed at about  0524Z.
 
In conclusion this observation would suggest that the best time for Transatlantic QSOs would be about half an hour before dawn ( I dont know whether that is the visible dawn or a sort of 'radio' dawn) It looks like we will need some insomniacs to work the States.
I understand the AMRAD beacon is operating now.....is it on 136.75?? as was projected.
I will try to set up some signal strength logging, but also calibrate the sensitivity of my loop aerial.
Hope that was interesting
Cheers de Alan G3NYK
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2353 invoked from network); 12 Jun 1999 23:58:57 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Jun 1999 23:58:57 +0100 Received: (qmail 12590 invoked from network); 12 Jun 1999 23:03:53 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Jun 1999 23:03:53 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10swuc-0002vu-00; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 00:10:06 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA22617 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:52:20 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA22613 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:52:17 GMT Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10swrN-0002rG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 00:06:45 +0100 Received: from [212.140.40.131] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10swbu-0002ba-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 23:50:46 +0100 Message-ID: <000201beb526$0d364e00$83288cd4@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Disappearing 'dits' Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 23:47:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi After listening to some weak (to me) stations on 136 this morning it occured to me that I was getting a solid, well above the noise dash, but the dits were not at the same peak strength. Noise was fairly low at the time, so it was not being carved up by static. It occurs to me that it may be that some keyers, or even some 'fists', are producing very shorts dots even at the relatively easy speeds used on 136. Can it be that the Q's of aerials and tuning are such that the TX is not rising to full power during a 'dit'?? I find that a bit hard to believe. I do know that when I was learnimg my morse thanks to an old PO Telegraphist up in Liverpool with a G3K call. He used to say that 'you had to send real SOLID dots on old long trans-oceanic cables' otherwise he reckoned they would not get to the other end!  I wonder whether this is a lesson for us ...its not so much the slowing down that helps copy on a weak signal so much as the SOLID dot that the slower more deliberate transmission gives. Being basically lazy and not having been an HF morse user I can't express an opinion either way. It would certainly be interesting to know what the tx rise-time (or maybe the aerial current rise-time) actually was with some of your fairly high Q aerials.
Cheers de Alan G3NYK
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8081 invoked from network); 13 Jun 1999 07:00:20 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Jun 1999 07:00:20 +0100 Received: (qmail 980 invoked from network); 13 Jun 1999 06:05:18 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Jun 1999 06:05:17 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10t3PB-0005xk-00; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:06:05 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA24767 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 05:50:41 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA24763 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 05:50:37 GMT Received: from mailout10.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.158]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10t3Ok-0005xh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:05:38 +0100 Received: from fwd14.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.174]) by mailout10.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 10t3A0-0001vB-00; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:50:24 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (320057114934-0001(btxid)@[62.158.46.197]) by fwd14.btx.dtag.de id ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:50:15 +0200 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:50:15 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000201beb526$0d364e00$83288cd4@default> Subject: Re: LF: Disappearing 'dits' X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 320057114934-0001@t-online.de From: "DF2PY" Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Lowfers ! According to information about commercial transmitters on the VLF range there is a substantial time-need for the current to rise in the aerial ! My monitoring of my outgoing signal does not give any indication for that so far,but i must admit,that i did not look for it so far! Whether that already happens at our frequency in the Lf band is not known to me. But from my 160 experience i can tell that real solid dots get thru better,in fact much better,as qrn can easily swallow short signals like dots and til your ear gets back to normal sensitivity it may just miss a dot completely,and that goes not for strong crashes only ! There are a few Land to submarine radio stns in the US in the 10Kc range and they have very slow "baud-rate" due to the problem that Alan was refering to. 73 de df2py From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29626 invoked from network); 13 Jun 1999 10:32:49 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Jun 1999 10:32:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 20396 invoked from network); 13 Jun 1999 09:37:53 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Jun 1999 09:37:53 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10t6qA-0007Zl-00; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 10:46:10 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA25821 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 09:30:16 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA25817 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 09:30:14 GMT Received: from disp.mindef.nl ([62.200.204.66] helo=u05.mindef.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10t6pA-0007Zi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 10:45:08 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from co.disp.mindef.nl (dial-064.pop2.mld.disp.net [62.200.207.64]) by u05.mindef.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA690D for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 11:29:22 +0200 Message-ID: <37637963.10A5CE69@co.disp.mindef.nl> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 11:27:01 +0200 From: "J.M. Valstar" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [nl]C-CCK-MCD QXW07201 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: nl,de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "RSGB LF Group" Subject: LF: SCW report saturday june 12 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello group, Now the summer season arrived there is not much time left to set watch on 136 kHz, but around 11:50 zulu saturday (june 12th) I 'saw' 2 transmissions in the slow cw part of the LF band. The first from Geri was ok and stable within 1 Hz; a second signal was okay for the signal strength, but especially the first part of the transmission was unreadable because of a not stable oscillating circuit. That transmission could have been from Mike, G3XDV DK8KW 127.691 kHz calling cq. Signal good visible with gram 4.2.6 ?3XDV 137.702 - 137.718 kHz. probably calling cq, first part of transmission not visible. I think that to take part in scw, you must have a stable carrier. the second transmission (G3XDV?) apparently had thermal feedback from the PA, the frequency drift was more than 16 Hz, too much. regards and 73 Jaap/pa3guc Leens, JO33EI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14229 invoked from network); 13 Jun 1999 12:31:06 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Jun 1999 12:31:06 +0100 Received: (qmail 14882 invoked from network); 13 Jun 1999 11:36:05 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Jun 1999 11:36:05 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10t8fV-0008PW-00; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 12:43:17 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA27533 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 11:28:11 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA27529 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 11:28:07 GMT Received: from mailout06.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.154]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10t8fB-0008PS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 12:42:57 +0100 Received: from fwd13.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.173]) by mailout06.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 10t8QN-0005s0-00; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 13:27:39 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (320057114934-0001(btxid)@[62.158.46.94]) by fwd13.btx.dtag.de id ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 13:27:25 +0200 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 13:27:25 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: DK7UY@geocities.com Subject: LF: QRNN sunday a.m. X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 320057114934-0001@t-online.de From: "DF2PY" Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Lowfers ! Sunday morning battered my receiver with heavy qrn from approaching T&L. Too bad ! The only day when somebody maybe active was spoiled. Looks like we are in for stormy weather.Maybe afternoon will calm down the statics. df2py From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14605 invoked from network); 13 Jun 1999 16:05:11 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Jun 1999 16:05:11 +0100 Received: (qmail 12454 invoked from network); 13 Jun 1999 15:10:17 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Jun 1999 15:10:17 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tBe5-0000ck-00; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 15:54:01 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA28819 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 14:54:15 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA28815 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 14:54:13 GMT Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tBdm-0000ch-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 15:53:43 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-125-170.bellatlantic.net [151.200.125.170]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA11663; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 10:52:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3763C50B.5D1D39E0@bellatlantic.net> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 10:49:47 -0400 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: The 137MHz RTTY station References: <000101beb526$0a0902e0$83288cd4@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Alan Melia wrote: > [...] In conclusion this observation would suggest that the best > time for Transatlantic QSOs would be about half an hour before dawn > ( I dont know whether that is the visible dawn or a sort of 'radio' > dawn) It looks like we will need some insomniacs to work the > States.I understand the AMRAD beacon is operating now.....is it on > 136.75?? as was projected. [...] Cheers de Alan > G3NYKAlan.Melia@btinternet.com Alan, Yes indeed WA2XTF, the AMRAD beacon is now "on" (well, actually it is "off" this week-end for antenna maintenance, but it should be back on the air circa 16 June). At this point, we transmit a continuously repeating message at 5 wpm in CW, although later this year we will try BPSK. As regards insomniacs on this side of the Atlantic, AMRAD is replete with them. But I think that we still need to refine our technology on this side before we can attempt such a feat. 73 Andre' N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2558 invoked from network); 13 Jun 1999 17:34:57 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Jun 1999 17:34:57 +0100 Received: (qmail 23329 invoked from network); 13 Jun 1999 16:39:43 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Jun 1999 16:39:43 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tD9x-0000xx-00; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 17:31:01 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA29588 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 16:31:14 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA29584 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 16:31:12 GMT Received: from cask.force9.net ([195.166.128.29]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tD9b-0000xt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 17:30:39 +0100 Received: (qmail 25593 invoked from network); 13 Jun 1999 16:31:20 -0000 Received: from relay3.force9.net (HELO relay2.force9.net) (195.166.128.25) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Jun 1999 16:31:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 246 invoked from network); 13 Jun 1999 16:24:27 -0000 Received: from 262.hiper02.shef.dialup.force9.net (HELO prstesv1) (195.166.145.6) by relay3.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Jun 1999 16:24:27 -0000 Message-ID: <002201beb5ba$72000120$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Disappearing 'dits' Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 17:31:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Alan,
 
I don't think it's the fault of transmitters failing to send proper dots, looking at mine on a scope the envelope is just the same as it would be on HF. I do agree that it's the dots that get lost though, and apart from those stations who don't seem to send any dots, I reckon it's in the receive end of the path. The combination of very narrow RX filters (much narrower than TX antenna/ATU bandwidth) and operation very close to the noise floor means the dots get lost first.
So the moral is "good solid dots" please! 
 
73, Dave G3YXM


 
Hi After listening to some weak (to me) stations on 136 this morning it occured to me that I was getting a solid, well above the noise dash, but the dits were not at the same peak strength. Noise was fairly low at the time, so it was not being carved up by static. It occurs to me that it may be that some keyers, or even some 'fists', are producing very shorts dots even at the relatively easy speeds used on 136. Can it be that the Q's of aerials and tuning are such that the TX is not rising to full power during a 'dit'?? I find that a bit hard to believe. I do know that when I was learnimg my morse thanks to an old PO Telegraphist up in Liverpool with a G3K call. He used to say that 'you had to send real SOLID dots on old long trans-oceanic cables' otherwise he reckoned they would not get to the other end!  I wonder whether this is a lesson for us ...its not so much the slowing down that helps copy on a weak signal so much as the SOLID dot that the slower more deliberate transmission gives. Being basically lazy and not having been an HF morse user I can't express an opinion either way. It would certainly be interesting to know what the tx rise-time (or maybe the aerial current rise-time) actually was with some of your fairly high Q aerials.
Cheers de Alan G3NYK
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17722 invoked from network); 13 Jun 1999 19:08:14 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Jun 1999 19:08:14 +0100 Received: (qmail 23873 invoked from network); 13 Jun 1999 17:56:21 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Jun 1999 17:56:21 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tEMY-0001Ey-00; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:48:06 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA30390 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 17:48:30 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA30386 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 17:48:27 GMT Received: from arl-img-9.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.139]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tEMK-0001Ev-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:47:52 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by arl-img-9.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.19) id NAA10467 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 13:47:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 13:45:40 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: SCW report saturday june 12 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199906131345_MC2-793F-1D23@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Lowfers, I tried to answer cq-calls from three different stations during the weekends (DF2PY, PA0LQ and OZ1KMR) without success. After a Slow-CW cq call only a very weak "?" came back, and DF8ZR in Slow-CW did not copy as well. So my first though was to follow the famous words of Jodie Foster in the movie "Contact": We need bigger antennas! My XYL Andrea (DL3ABC) suggested, that my antenna might be damaged. And then I saw the encouraging message of Jaap, PA3GUC: >DK8KW 127.691 kHz calling cq. Signal good visible with gram 4.2.6 and jumped up and down! Someone saw my cq-call in PA! Hopefully the frequency is a typo, otherwise I need to check my VFO. But Jaap, you have an excellent accuracy to measure the frequency, my calling frequency was supposed to be 137.690 kHz +/- 1 kHz. Thank you, Jaap, for the report. All the others, whom I called in vain this weekend: the 18m fibre-glas mast, that I ordered, is supposed to be delivered end of June! Looking forward to work more of you, best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15578 invoked from network); 14 Jun 1999 00:22:07 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Jun 1999 00:22:07 +0100 Received: (qmail 12090 invoked from network); 13 Jun 1999 21:34:29 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Jun 1999 21:34:29 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tHkk-00020A-00; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:25:18 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA31952 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:25:35 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA31943 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:25:30 GMT Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tHkG-000203-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:24:48 +0100 Received: from [212.140.32.131] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10tHjZ-0004h9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:24:06 +0100 Message-ID: <000101beb5e3$1b289280$83208cd4@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Cluster spots 12/13 June Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:21:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
The Cluster spots are very thin again this week. I guess it was very noisy
in the middle of Europe. There seemed to be a reasonable amount of activity
in the mornings but it tailed away by 1200Z. Thunder and lightening in the
late Sat afternoon, and a sizzling noise maybe rain static
  
   136.8  DF8ZR        9-Jun-1999 1707Z  cq 539                       <DJ5BV>
G3NYK de GB7DXM   13-Jun 2101Z >
  1800.0  G3YXM       12-Jun-1999 1644Z  hand cw cq 137.0khz          <G3NYK>
  1800.0  G3YXM       12-Jun-1999 1612Z  QRS cq 137.73 khz            <G3NYK>
  1800.0  OZ1KMR      12-Jun-1999 1018Z  wkg PA0lq 136.5khz           <G3NYK>
  1800.0  DX          12-Jun-1999 0911Z  g3xdv 137.72 khz QRS cq      <G3NYK>
  1800.0  G3XDV       12-Jun-1999 0852Z  cq 137.20 khz                <G3NYK>
  1800.0  DF2PY       12-Jun-1999 0821Z   CQing on 136.9 kHz          <DF2PY>
  1800.0  PA0LQ       11-Jun-1999 1322Z  on 136.9 kHz- 549-           <DF2PY>
G3NYK de GB7DXM   13-Jun 2101Z >
 
Cheers de Alan G3NYK
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19597 invoked from network); 14 Jun 1999 03:18:24 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Jun 1999 03:18:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 31558 invoked from network); 14 Jun 1999 01:36:55 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Jun 1999 01:36:55 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tLZm-0002pr-00; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 02:30:14 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA01190 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:30:07 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA01186 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:30:04 GMT Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tLZa-0002pR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 02:30:02 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-120-23.bellatlantic.net [151.200.120.23]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA08881; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:29:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <376456F6.5BC515A3@bellatlantic.net> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:12:23 -0400 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: more re 137.0 RTTY (12/13 June) References: <000001beb5e3$1a252c40$83208cd4@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org I have just received from a Radio Amateur in San Diego (on the West Coast) the following message: Quote: There is a station on 137 Khz located in Dixon, Calif. The call sign is NPG it is operated by the Navy and transmits 100 wpm 50 hz shift encrypted RTTY. The Station runs about 50KW into a 800 foot monopole. Unquote. Andre' N4ICK Alan Melia wrote: > The FFTDSP4 log for the early morning of 13June shows the same > profile as I reported earlier, for reception of the RTTY signal on > 137.0 kHz. The signal first appears at about 0030Z , is at good > strength between 0100 and 0330Z and has disappeared by 0400Z. Peak > strength seems to be at 0300Z73 de Alan G3NYK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed Return-Path: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 8643 invoked from network); 14 Jun 1999 06:17:00 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Jun 1999 06:17:00 +0100 Received: (qmail 12056 invoked from network); 14 Jun 1999 05:21:58 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Jun 1999 05:21:58 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tP5M-0003YD-00; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 06:15:04 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA02042 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 05:14:54 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA02035 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 05:14:50 GMT Received: from ns.cro.cz ([193.179.196.2] ident=qmailr) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tP4x-0003Y7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 06:14:39 +0100 Received: (qmail 11795 invoked from network); 14 Jun 1999 05:14:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from fw.cro.cz (HELO ns-int.cro.cz) (193.179.197.2) by ns.cro.cz with SMTP; 14 Jun 1999 05:14:38 -0000 Received: from radiohk.hk.cro.cz (ns.hk.cro.cz [172.27.1.2]) by ns-int.cro.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA26489 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:14:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc033hk.hk.cro.cz ([172.27.1.33]) by radiohk.hk.cro.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA07811 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:14:25 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by pc033hk.hk.cro.cz with Microsoft Mail id <01BEB635.881D5C20@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz>; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:14:24 +-200 Message-ID: <01BEB635.881D5C20@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> From: "Petr Maly" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: My WEB pages Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:14:23 +-200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org My address is http://www.mujweb.cz/www/OK1FIG/index.htm and according to counter of visits the other have got no problems to visit my page. HWSAT? Petr, OK1FIG ---------- Od: DF2PY[SMTP:df2py@t-online.de] Odesláno: 12. cervna 1999 15:10 Komu: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Predmet: Re: LF: My WEB pages Hello Petr ! I tried to visit ur web-page but the adress does have a bug in it. Netscape cannot find it,could You try to send the adress again to the lowfer- mail server ??? thanks and hope u get ready with TX soon ! 73 de df2py wolf From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12509 invoked from network); 14 Jun 1999 07:09:33 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Jun 1999 07:09:33 +0100 Received: (qmail 14256 invoked from network); 14 Jun 1999 06:14:33 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Jun 1999 06:14:33 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tPu4-0003jm-00; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:07:28 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA02283 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 06:06:14 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA02279 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 06:06:11 GMT Received: from ns.cro.cz ([193.179.196.2] ident=qmailr) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tPse-0003jY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:06:00 +0100 Received: (qmail 12023 invoked from network); 14 Jun 1999 06:05:58 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from fw.cro.cz (HELO ns-int.cro.cz) (193.179.197.2) by ns.cro.cz with SMTP; 14 Jun 1999 06:05:58 -0000 Received: from radiohk.hk.cro.cz (ns.hk.cro.cz [172.27.1.2]) by ns-int.cro.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA26816 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:05:58 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc033hk.hk.cro.cz ([172.27.1.33]) by radiohk.hk.cro.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA05862 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:05:47 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by pc033hk.hk.cro.cz with Microsoft Mail id <01BEB63C.B497E8E0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz>; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:05:45 +-200 Message-ID: <01BEB63C.B497E8E0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> From: "Petr Maly" To: "'137 kHz'" Subject: LF: Weekend report 12-13/6/99 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:05:44 +-200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello lowfers. The only time worth listening this time of year seems to be mornings. Saturday: IK5ZPV (539), DJ1ZB (529), HB9ASB (529), DF2PY (569), OZ1KMR (519) Sunday: Much worse, listened only to DF2PY (529) and some OZ5 station, maybe it was OZ5DJ. Can anyone confirm the callsign? TX under hectic construction, another improvement of ant being prepared. One note to mentioned schedules. Rather than fixed times I would prefer some system. For example each even hour UTC starting at 00 minute for CW operation, each odd hour UTC starting at 00 minute for Slow-CW. The system should be simple and easy to remember rather than a long and complicated list of fixed times. A calling in a certain segment (for example 137.3 - 137.5 ) would mean that station is also listening to other band (for example 3666 kHz). Let us hope the band will be peopled soon and such system will be redudant. 73! Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5809 invoked from network); 14 Jun 1999 14:45:54 -0000 Received: from cask.force9.net (195.166.128.29) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Jun 1999 14:45:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 5663 invoked from network); 14 Jun 1999 13:20:00 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Jun 1999 13:20:00 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tUoF-0004rn-00; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:21:47 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA04507 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:19:13 GMT X-Priority: 3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA04503 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:19:09 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tUlM-0004ph-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:18:48 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10tUle-0006q0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:19:06 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:16:49 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:18:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Weekend Report 12/12 June Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org A good weekend (at least the mornings). A new country heard and four new stations received. Saturday 12 June Very low noise level in morning then S9+10dB QRM from neighbour's computer 1100 - 2130. Good conditions and heard far more EU than G, and only one station within 250km of me! Heard PA0SE (549); PA0LEG (539 and a new one for me); PA0CC (549); PA0LQ (559); MM0ALM (319); G6RO (549); G3BDQ (58/99); DF2PY (539); OZ1KMR (549 and a new country for me) and OZ5N (339). Worked DJ5AO using extremely slow CW (QRSs) (gave 'M', got 'O'). Sunday 13 June Another quiet and active morning but very heavy QRN from 1030UTC for the rest of the day. Heard G6RO (549); G3AQC (539); G3YXM (599); G3XTZ (599); PA0LQ (449); PA0CC (339); OZ5N (539); PA0SE (549). Saw on Spectrogram screen QRSs from HB9ASB who was audible at S1; and DK8KW (only 'M' on an extremely quiet band - actually the weakest station I have ever successfully received - but another new one). Called DK8KW but no reply. Worked G3BDQ (579/589); and G6NB (459QRN/559). Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14013 invoked from network); 14 Jun 1999 16:53:07 +0100 Received: from cask.force9.net (195.166.128.29) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Jun 1999 16:53:08 +0100 Received: (qmail 14349 invoked from network); 14 Jun 1999 15:06:24 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Jun 1999 15:06:24 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tXar-0005TD-00; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:20:09 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA05780 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:19:36 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA05776 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:19:32 GMT Received: from apollo.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.125]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tXZo-0005Sl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:19:04 +0100 Received: from pc171.geog.le.ac.uk ([143.210.151.171] helo=kate) by apollo.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10tXZn-0006zc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:19:03 +0100 Message-ID: <000a01beb66f$e86598b0$ab97d28f@kate.geog.le.ac.uk> From: "Kate Moore" To: "lfgroup" Subject: LF: Noise - latest Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:12:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Many thanks again to everyone who provided further suggestions and encouragement on the noise problem: N4ICK, EI0CF, ZL3FJ, VK3GJZ, G4TMV, G3YMC and GW4ALG. All comments are very much appreciated and useful in getting to the bottom of this - I am wondering whether there may be some mileage in compiling a collection of tips for tracking down noise on LF! The latest situation hasn't changed much as I have been very busy again this week, so have had little time to go out DFing. The noise is still running continuously at S9 on 136kHz, but I did hear Dave G3YXM above it on Saturday afternoon. Having checked with Dave that my TX frequency was clear, we had a contact (my first on LF in 3 weeks!) which made a nice change, but the noise was quite noticable even with Dave's monster signal, so I didn't attempt to do anything else. I'm totally against using the band if you can't hear any of the weaker signals - that just causes problems for everyone else...... To briefly answer a few points which were raised: Yes, the poles where the noise peaked are definately telephone poles and NOT power-line poles. It is very uncommon to have overhead power lines in cities in England (although they are very common outside the cities). My locality is typical of an English city suburb with no overhead power lines at all (so I can't check them!) but LOTS of telephone poles. The local transformer happens to be right outside the telephone exchange, but as mentioned last time, the noise didn't show a peak anywhere in that immediate area, and I'm not climbing over the fence to get in really close! I happen to have a bat-detector, so if it is an arcing problem I am already equipped to 'hear' it - nice suggestion that, Alan and Dave! At Steve's suggestion, I used the Walkman to check for noise at our house consumer box. Yes, it is louder there, but so are all the BC signals. The noise is louder still where the central-heating pipes run up the wall and into the loft (attic), so I think this is all just a re-radiation effect. The most mystifying news is that the medium-wave noise appears to NOT be local to me. On foot, I observed it getting weaker, but in the car driving to work I discovered that it comes up again as you get further away and there appears to be a fixed 'standing-wave' effect of peaks and troughs in the noise. I could still hear it well on the car radio at work - 5 miles away in the centre of the city! Now I have to investigate whether I am confusing the issue by listening on medium wave - maybe that is a different source from my 136kHz problem? If not, it's one heck of a noise source..... More when I have it! John G4GVC near Leicester, IO92JP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19951 invoked from network); 14 Jun 1999 22:28:31 -0000 Received: from cask.force9.net (195.166.128.29) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Jun 1999 22:28:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 31789 invoked from network); 14 Jun 1999 19:33:45 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Jun 1999 19:33:45 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10taWW-0006BD-00; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 18:27:52 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA07241 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:27:00 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA07237 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:26:55 GMT Received: from hil-img-7.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10taV3-0006B5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 18:26:21 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hil-img-7.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.19) id NAA10246 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:26:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:25:28 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Weekend Report 12/12 June To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199906141325_MC2-7957-ED1@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Mike (and others) what a surprise! A second time I jumped up and down. >Saw on Spectrogram screen QRSs from HB9ASB who was audible >at S1; and DK8KW (only 'M' on an extremely quiet band - actually >the weakest station I have ever successfully received - but another >new one). Called DK8KW but no reply. You should see my antenna in the moment. Everything that can be done wrong (following the theory) was done wrong: not heigh enough, not sufficient ground, one top-wire is broken at the moment, between the loading coil and the top point, the antenna has an inclination of about 60 degrees, most of the antenna is in the trees with leaves, and so on. I haven't done much to improve it lately since I am waiting for the fibre-glas mast to be delieverd. My estimated ERP is around 35 mW, maybe less in the moment. This should encorage everyone even with a small antenna to try Slow-CW! The distance between Mike's QTH and mine (JO52BH) is 707 km! Sorry, Mike, that I could't copy you, I have trouble with local noise from time to time here. But thank you very much for taking the time and try to copy such a weak signal! Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) BTW: I have updates my page (http://www.dk8kw.home.pages.de) with a page on Slow-CW, especially for newcomers. I downloaded Spectrogram 5.0 and find the improvements excellent! From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20796 invoked from network); 15 Jun 1999 01:23:33 +0100 Received: from cask.force9.net (195.166.128.29) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Jun 1999 01:23:33 +0100 Received: (qmail 2624 invoked from network); 14 Jun 1999 21:04:31 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Jun 1999 21:04:31 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10td8l-0006r9-00; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:15:31 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA09041 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:15:42 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA09037 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:15:39 GMT Received: from mail1-gui.server.ntli.net ([194.168.222.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10td8G-0006r6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:15:00 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from cableol.co.uk ([194.168.18.79]) by mail1-gui.server.ntli.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-33929U70000L2S50) with ESMTP id AAA28730 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:47:51 +0100 Message-ID: <37655BC8.78B9856@cableol.co.uk> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:45:13 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Frequency separation: Normal CW operation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Over the past month, I had become aware that a certain G-station - new to LF, but with a very commanding signal on 136.53 kHz - was often heard to 'clobber' QSOs, and CQ calls from other stations. This puzzled me greatly, because I knew that the station concerned could usually hear the other stations involved. It appeared to me - and to others - as if the station was deliberately causing QRM to his fellow LFers. Having recently telephoned the operator concerned, I can report that the reason for the unintentional QRM amounted to a lack of understanding concerning typical IF bandwidths employed by amateurs on 136 kHz. The operator concerned is using a receiver with an effective IF bandwidth of 50 Hz (!), and he was quite happy to operate to within 100Hz of other stations! I advised the operator that we tend to assume a receive IF bandwidth of 250 Hz and generally aim to maintain a 300 Hz separation from other stations. (I believe that 300 Hz has been the figure quoted during LF Group discussions and at the LF Forum.) I hope I did the right thing. But with the fancy new receivers now available (which I'll probably never be able to afford!), does the Group still feel 300 Hz to be a reasonable separation for normal CW operation? Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7643 invoked from network); 15 Jun 1999 12:03:24 -0000 Received: from mashie.force9.net (195.166.128.30) by medusa.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Jun 1999 12:03:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 14892 invoked from network); 14 Jun 1999 22:41:27 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Jun 1999 22:41:27 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10terK-0007Fb-00; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:05:39 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA09742 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:06:12 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA09738 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:06:07 GMT Received: from monsoon.dial.pipex.net ([158.43.128.69] helo=monsoon.mail.pipex.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ter6-0007FY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:05:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 8269 invoked from network); 14 Jun 1999 22:04:59 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from useri231.uk.uudial.com (194.69.105.95) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 1999 22:04:59 -0000 From: "Nick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Noise - latest Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:59:27 GMT Message-ID: <376a7740.4923697@smtp.dial.pipex.com> References: <000a01beb66f$e86598b0$ab97d28f@kate.geog.le.ac.uk> In-reply-to: <000a01beb66f$e86598b0$ab97d28f@kate.geog.le.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org On Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:12:16 +0100, you wrote: >To briefly answer a few points which were raised: >Yes, the poles where the noise peaked are definately telephone poles and >NOT power-line poles Just a wild idea. Have any of your neighbours had 'home highway' (the domestic brand of ISDN installed). BT also have a wonderful little pair of boxes which duplexes two BT lines onto one physical pair of cables. If someone near you has had one fitted depending on the technology used this could increase the noise on the phone lines. Have you looked at the modulation on the noise in a reasonable bandwidth? if it is 50Hz or harmonic related then it is something to do with distribution wiring or appliances, if it is not mains synchronous then it is an appliance of some sort. Good luck Back to lurk mode Nick G4WHO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20007 invoked from network); 15 Jun 1999 16:08:26 +0100 Received: from mashie.force9.net (195.166.128.30) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Jun 1999 16:08:26 +0100 Received: (qmail 20354 invoked from network); 14 Jun 1999 23:46:28 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Jun 1999 23:46:27 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10te66-00074x-00; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:16:50 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA09404 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:17:20 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA09400 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:17:16 GMT Received: from post.interalpha.co.uk ([195.26.224.18] helo=post.interalpha.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10te5q-00074u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:16:34 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from sot-mod18.interalpha.net (sot-mod18.interalpha.net [195.26.225.18]) by post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id WAA05804; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:18:22 +0100 Message-ID: <199906142118.WAA05804@post.interalpha.net> X-Sender: drassew2@post.interalpha.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:17:00 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, actalbot@dera.gov.uk From: "Andy Talbot" Subject: LF: Frequency separation: Normal CW operation Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >I advised the operator that we tend to assume a receive IF bandwidth of >250 Hz and generally aim to maintain a 300 Hz separation from other >stations. (I believe that 300 Hz has been the figure quoted during LF >Group discussions and at the LF Forum.) I hope I did the right thing. > >But with the fancy new receivers now available (which I'll probably >never be able to afford!), does the Group still feel 300 Hz to be a >reasonable separation for normal CW operation? > Over 10% of the entire band just to allow guard bands!! What is wrong with some post Rx audio filtering - 50Hz BW is hardly difficult even with analogue filters. As I've now given up LF (it's become boring and 'just another operators band') others can make more valid comments. I notice in the call for papers for the July HF2000 conference in Guildford, there is section scheduled on amateur 73 / 137kHz activities. Does anyone on this reflector know who proposed this or is writing a paper. The conference organiser I spoke to did not know where it came from ! Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12634 invoked from network); 15 Jun 1999 18:22:59 -0000 Received: from mashie.force9.net (195.166.128.30) by caffreys.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Jun 1999 18:22:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 26239 invoked from network); 15 Jun 1999 00:59:42 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Jun 1999 00:59:42 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10thQC-00081e-00; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:49:48 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA11090 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 00:46:33 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA11085 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 00:46:30 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10thMy-000816-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:46:28 +0100 Received: from dennison.demon.co.uk ([194.222.239.33]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10thMx-0004BV-0C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 00:46:28 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:32:16 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Mike Dennison" Subject: Re: LF: Disappearing 'dits' In-reply-to: <000201beb526$0d364e00$83288cd4@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Alan.Melia@btinternet.com> writes >Can it be that the Q's of aerials and tuning are such that >the TX is not rising to full power during a 'dit'?? I find that a bit hard to >believe. The idea of an LF antenna being too narrow for CW is a myth, certainly for the very lossy tiny-fraction-of-a-wavelength antennas we use. With practical losses of several ohms in a loading coil and tens or even hundreds in the earth system, bandwidths are relatively wide. I measured my Marconi, and the 3dB points (antenna current down to 0.7 of maximum) are 5.5kHz apart - easily enough for an SSB signal and nowhere near the 100Hz or so you would need to slow down a dot. It would be interesting to hear what others make their 3dB bandwidths. As for adapting CW technique to the propagation and receiver bandwidth, this is quite common as you say. I find that those working 160m DX (real DX like W6 or JA) tend to lengthen the gap between elements (dots and dashes) because the path tends to fill them in - is this a sort of ionospheric ringing? I have set my own keyer weighting to have longer than normal gaps. -- Mike, G3XDV www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4082 invoked from network); 15 Jun 1999 18:45:35 -0000 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Jun 1999 18:45:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 32007 invoked from network); 13 Jun 1999 23:50:05 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Jun 1999 23:50:05 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tJq1-0002VG-00; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 00:38:53 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA00254 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:37:42 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA00250 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:37:39 GMT Received: from mb05.swip.net ([193.12.122.209]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tJo4-0002Th-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 00:36:53 +0100 Received: from s-257519 (dialup112-3-15.swipnet.se [130.244.112.143]) by mb05.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA13334 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:36:50 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000e01beb5f5$949a2ea0$8f70f482@s-257519> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: VB: Spectrogram 5.0 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:36:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello dear Lowfers, Richard Horne sent me a note about his release of Spectrogram v5.0. I asked him about forwarding his message to this reflector and here is his answer: >Yes, please forward my email to the rsgb_lf_group e-mail reflector. I would >like to have as much testing as possible. 73 de Johan, SM6LKM ######### -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Från: Richard Horne Till: Johan Bodin Datum: den 13 juni 1999 17:12 Ämne: Spectrogram 5.0 >You are receiving this note because of your past interest in Spectrogram >freeware. A new version 5.0 is now available for download from >http://www.monumental.com/rshorne/gram.html which provides the following >improvements. > > Complete user control over color scale > Increased sensitivity to low-level signals > New 1/3 octave processing option > Adjustable frequency-amplitude calibration > Automatic record triggering by signal level > Single spectrum plot capability at any spectrogram point > Scanning improvements allowing image printing and saving > Images which can be saved as either jpeg or bitmap files > Cursor offset and adjustable display update for radio amateurs > Improved data logging > Completely updated Help File > >Your comments and suggestions are welcome. Because this is such a new >program, I would like to have a few weeks of user testing before making a >general announcement on the Internet. If you have the opportunity to run >this program and you observe problems of any sort, please consider sending a >bug report to rshorne@mnsinc.com. > >Thank you, >Richard Horne > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16158 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 00:12:36 +0100 Received: from cask.force9.net (195.166.128.29) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 00:12:36 +0100 Received: (qmail 10463 invoked from network); 15 Jun 1999 14:49:27 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Jun 1999 14:49:26 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10trR0-0001qx-00; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:31:18 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA14640 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:30:28 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA14635 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:30:25 GMT Received: from typhoon.mail.pipex.net ([158.43.128.27]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10trPn-0001qr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:30:03 +0100 Received: (qmail 11945 invoked from network); 15 Jun 1999 11:30:00 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from userb700.uk.uudial.com (193.149.83.175) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 1999 11:30:00 -0000 From: "Nick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Noise from phone lines Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:24:01 GMT Message-ID: <376a1299.17849069@smtp.dial.pipex.com> References: <000a01beb66f$e86598b0$ab97d28f@kate.geog.le.ac.uk> <000a01beb66f$e86598b0$ab97d28f@kate.geog.le.ac.uk> <199906150746.IAA06433@fm215.facility.pipex.com> In-reply-to: <199906150746.IAA06433@fm215.facility.pipex.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org On Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:50:22 +0100, you wrote: > >Last year I started hearing approximately one-second ticks with a double >tick on the minute If it was not for the double tick on the minute I would have put it down to a classic noise source of electric fence units. Nick From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26729 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 03:33:59 -0000 Received: from mashie.force9.net (195.166.128.30) by caffreys.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 03:33:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 31667 invoked from network); 15 Jun 1999 07:54:30 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Jun 1999 07:54:30 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10to06-00018N-00; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:51:18 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA13378 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 07:50:20 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA13373 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 07:50:17 GMT Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tnys-00017r-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:50:02 +0100 Received: from walter (userm813.uk.uudial.com [193.149.80.101]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA06433 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:46:35 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <199906150746.IAA06433@fm215.facility.pipex.com> X-Sender: blanch@mailhost.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:50:22 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Noise from phone lines In-reply-to: <376a7740.4923697@smtp.dial.pipex.com> References: <000a01beb66f$e86598b0$ab97d28f@kate.geog.le.ac.uk><000a01beb66f$e86598b0$ab97d28f@kate.geog.le.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org G4WHO wrote : >BT also have a wonderful little pair of boxes which duplexes two BT lines onto >one physical pair of cables. If someone near you has had one fitted depending on >the technology used this could increase the noise on the phone lines. Last year I started hearing approximately one-second ticks with a double tick on the minute on all radio frequencies up to 5 MHz, including 136. I thought at first MSF was running amok but it was coming from overhead phone lines running alongside my property and was somehow linked with a nearby cellphone installation. I moaned to BT who said they could do nothing about it - "everything was within spec" and it was somehow my fault for living too close by. What with this sort of thing and the broadband noise now covering 160m over large areas of the country for hours on end I'm beginning to think my amateur radio days are over! Walter G3JKV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4641 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 09:32:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 09:32:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 23569 invoked from network); 14 Jun 1999 07:51:23 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Jun 1999 07:51:23 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tRPC-00044Z-00; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:43:42 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA03134 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:43:45 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA03130 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:43:43 GMT Received: from mail1-gui.server.ntli.net ([194.168.222.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tROy-00044W-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:43:29 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from cableol.co.uk ([194.168.18.45]) by mail1-gui.server.ntli.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-33929U70000L2S50) with ESMTP id AAA9559 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:31:59 +0100 Message-ID: <3764AE51.65189EE8@cableol.co.uk> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:25:05 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: daily avtivity time References: <199906120217_MC2-7923-FFFA@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Dave Sergeant G3YMC wrote: > . . . . it is worth considering a time rather earlier in the day when band > noise is quite a lot lower. I am on (or at least listening) nearly every day > around 7am local (0600z) and this would be a good time if there were more > activity. I would agree that I have found early mornings to be very successful. Although propagation may not be optimum for serious DX (say, over 600 km), I have no trouble copying weak signals in the early morning when my local QRM is at a minimum. For this reason, I am often on the band from 05:00 - 07:00 UT on Saturdays and Sundays. Petr, OK1FIG wrote recently ". . . The only time worth listening this time of year seems to be mornings" which, because of summer QRN/local QRM, sums up my own feelings exactly. I would therefore support including an activity time (at least at weekends) within the period 05:00 to 07:00 UT: 05:30 to 06:30 UT, perhaps? Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 67 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 16:06:58 -0000 Received: from mashie.force9.net (195.166.128.30) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 16:06:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 29033 invoked from network); 15 Jun 1999 07:27:58 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Jun 1999 07:27:57 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tnae-000133-00; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:25:00 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA13269 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 07:23:39 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA13265 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 07:23:36 GMT Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tnZ3-000124-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:23:22 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA09342 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:28:39 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990615082027.2f0f352c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:20:27 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Frequency separation: Normal CW operation In-reply-to: <37655BC8.78B9856@cableol.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org At 20:45 14/06/99 +0100, GW4ALG wrote: >I advised the operator that we tend to assume a receive IF bandwidth of >250 Hz and generally aim to maintain a 300 Hz separation from other >stations. (I believe that 300 Hz has been the figure quoted during LF >Group discussions and at the LF Forum.) I hope I did the right thing. > >But with the fancy new receivers now available (which I'll probably >never be able to afford!), does the Group still feel 300 Hz to be a >reasonable separation for normal CW operation? At 22:17 14/06/99 +0100, G4JNT wrote: > >Over 10% of the entire band just to allow guard bands!! > >What is wrong with some post Rx audio filtering - 50Hz BW is hardly >difficult even with analogue filters. > >As I've now given up LF (it's become boring and 'just another operators >band') others can make more valid comments. Maybe here in Belgium I am a bit out of the activity 'epicentrum' (= UK), but so far I cannot remember to have heard more than 4 or 5 stations tranmitting at the same time, so I think most of the time there is no reason to go closer than 300Hz to another station. It is not because 1 operator has an excellent (non ringing !) narrow filter that all the others have it. So my advice : if possible keep 300Hz (or more) away from other stations. If the other station is in QSO (especially with a 'weak' QSO-partner) than even more care should be taken not to 'torpedo' the QSO. 73, Rik From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29794 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 19:24:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ridings.force9.net) (195.166.129.61) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 19:24:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 10007 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 15:27:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by ridings.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 15:27:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 22195 invoked from network); 13 Jun 1999 21:34:28 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Jun 1999 21:34:28 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tHkk-000209-00; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:25:18 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA31953 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:25:36 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA31946 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:25:31 GMT Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tHkH-000206-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:24:49 +0100 Received: from [212.140.32.131] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10tHjY-0004h9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:24:04 +0100 Message-ID: <000001beb5e3$1a252c40$83208cd4@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: more re 137.0 RTTY (12/13 June) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 14:32:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
The FFTDSP4 log for the early morning of 13June shows the same profile as I reported earlier, for reception of the RTTY signal on 137.0 kHz. The signal first appears at about 0030Z , is at good strength between 0100 and 0330Z and has disappeared by 0400Z. Peak strength seems to be at 0300Z
73 de Alan G3NYK
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29485 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 21:08:40 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 21:08:40 +0100 Received: (qmail 18562 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 18:46:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 18:46:49 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10uBsc-0006Xg-00; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:21:10 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA23174 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:20:05 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA23149 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:20:02 GMT Received: from mb04.swip.net ([193.12.122.208]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10uBrD-0006XC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:19:44 +0100 Received: from s-257519 (dialup150-3-60.swipnet.se [130.244.150.188]) by mb04.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA24698 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 11:19:42 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <007101beb7d9$56d15c20$fcf8f482@s-257519> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Oops! Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 11:18:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org I forgot one thing in my previous message: The separate noise receiver should have a separate wideband antenna, of course. An active whip or similar. 73 de Johan, SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29519 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 21:09:01 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 21:09:01 +0100 Received: (qmail 18564 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 18:46:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 18:46:50 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10uBoz-0006Wx-00; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:17:25 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA23134 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:15:10 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA23130 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:15:07 GMT Received: from mb04.swip.net ([193.12.122.208]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10uBmT-0006We-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:14:50 +0100 Received: from s-257519 (dialup56-2-57.swipnet.se [130.244.56.121]) by mb04.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA21557 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 11:14:45 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <006201beb7d8$a65bb700$fcf8f482@s-257519> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: SV: LF: Antennas, bandwidth, etc Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 11:13:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Bob ZL2CA wrote: >Also note that it is ineffective to use a separate noise receiver to >derive noise blanking drive, as it does not "reverse" the situation that >once a noise spike has become a noise blob (due to band limiting) then >the process can not be reversed, and the noise blob passes through the >receiver to the demodulator. I guess the "noise blob" you mentioned is the exponentially decaying ringing which occurs when a high Q antenna, such as a tuned loop, is excited by a short noise spike. As far as I understand, the traditional way is to put a switch somewhere in the signal path that opens up during the blanking pulse. This pulse has to be quite long if a high Q antenna is used (long blob). I think it is possible to kill that blob right at the antenna by using a separate wideband noise receiver and feed the blanking pulse to a switch (analog switch, fet or something) connected ACROSS the loop. This will "eat" the pulse energy almost instantly and the blanking pulse width can be made much shorter than in the "traditional" case. Has anyone tried this idea? 73 de Johan Bodin, SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29518 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 21:09:01 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 21:09:01 +0100 Received: (qmail 18565 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 18:46:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 18:46:51 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10uBJy-0006Ov-00; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:45:22 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA23001 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 08:44:07 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA22997 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 08:44:04 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10uBIS-0006Oi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:43:48 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #34) id 10uCDM-0000in-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:42:37 +0000 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:26:54 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:28:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: DSP? Priority: normal In-reply-to: <01BEB7CF.082E06E0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org OK1FIG wrote: > We are probably damned to fight agains QRN and QRM. Recently I had > opportunity to buy an external DSP device. I wonder what the experience > of DSP users are. Certainly it is great to have a very narrow non-ringing filter. > I mean rather use of noise-reduction techniques. Do they really provide > a possibility of making very weak signals (normal CW) more readable? > Or is it only a toy and I had better to rely on my well-trained ear? > My experience is that with only one weak signal down in the noise, an external DSP filter does not give better readability than a "well trained ear". As the signal gets stronger, or QRM is audible, it is more comfortable listening to the DSP filtered signal. I have not found a DSP filter that has an effect on QRN. I think it is worth having such a filter, if only to reduce the strong close-in QRM that GW4ALG wrote about (not a problem in OK - yet), but don't expect to be able to read weaker stations than you can now. I suspect that the way forward with LF reception is with a very narrow-band, highly directional rotatable receive antenna with broad front and steep null. This will allow the reduction of amateur QRM, electrical noise, and blocking by commercial signals. Interestingly, when I built an amplified ferrite rod receive antenna for 73kHz it had a much narrower bandwidth (few hundred Hz) and sharper null than my 1m loop antenna - but the loop received better! Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29526 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 21:09:06 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 21:09:06 +0100 Received: (qmail 18566 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 18:46:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 18:46:51 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10uAQZ-00068u-00; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 08:48:07 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA22484 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 07:46:34 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA22480 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 07:46:30 GMT Received: from [203.96.92.3] (helo=mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10uAOh-00068o-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 08:46:16 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [202.27.178.226] by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990616074803.FYSU311284.mta2-rme@[202.27.178.226]> for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 19:48:03 +1200 Message-ID: <3767551C.262@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 19:41:16 +1200 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Antennas, bandwidth, etc References: <199906160131_MC2-7996-56AF@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Comments on bandwidth and noise blankers: > Mike is probably right. Unfortunately most of us see the transmit > bandwidth of the antenna as being that for which the SWR is acceptable. > With my present loop antenna the usable bandwidth, ie that within which the > SWR is less than 2:1, is about 200Hz. Having not yet built my remote loop > tuner this is embarrasingly narrow! However the bandwidth the receiver sees > is probably rather a lot more than this. In any case I have a couple of > fixed tuned circuits in the receive path which limits the bandwidth to a > few kHz. > > It is true to say that I can detect no slurring of the edges of dots on any > signals I copy. It has been noted in ZL that noise blankers do not work so well on narrowband loop receiving antennas. In the usual type of receiver, the noise blanker runs off a separate IF, and has wider bandwidth than the "tail end" IF. The wider bandwidth is to allow for good rise/fall times and for noise gating to occur before much of the noise spike passes the gating circuitry. If the antenna itself is very narrowband, then the "noise spikes" of field strength reach the receiver input as "noise blobs" and the noise blanker IF can do nothing to sort out any high rise time pulses to blank out, as there are none appearing! So if noise spikes are an issue, and noise blankers generally do quite a good job on minimising the impact, then there is a case to receive via an antenna system with a response bandwidth of not less than the noise blanker IF (typically the 1st IF roofing filter bandwidth of about 15 kHz). Also note that it is ineffective to use a separate noise receiver to derive noise blanking drive, as it does not "reverse" the situation that once a noise spike has become a noise blob (due to band limiting) then the process can not be reversed, and the noise blob passes through the receiver to the demodulator. Transmitting antennas are another matter, where efficiency is perhaps the main factor, but I will force myself to not divert from the point made about receiving :) Regards, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29524 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 21:09:06 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 21:09:06 +0100 Received: (qmail 18569 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 18:46:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 18:46:53 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10u8oA-0005p6-00; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 07:04:22 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA22050 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 06:01:55 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA22046 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 06:01:53 GMT Received: from monsoon.dial.pipex.net ([158.43.128.69] helo=monsoon.mail.pipex.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10u8la-0005p0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 07:01:42 +0100 Received: (qmail 5970 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 06:01:14 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from userm774.uk.uudial.com (193.149.80.62) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 06:01:14 -0000 From: "Nick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Noise - latest Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 05:55:43 GMT Message-ID: <3767db72.3524938@smtp.dial.pipex.com> References: <003201beb774$0d00d400$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> In-reply-to: <003201beb774$0d00d400$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org On Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:14:22 +0100, you wrote: > >Nick / John, > >I can rule out BT's "DAX" box which uses analogue carrier multiplex as I had >one here for a while with no RF problems on any band. It was USELESS for use >with a modem though so it's gone now! > >73, Dave G3YXM (again) Just a thought. If you ever get a power cut listen then, that will tell you a lot. Nick From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29540 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 21:09:09 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 21:09:09 +0100 Received: (qmail 18568 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 18:46:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 18:46:53 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10u8sJ-0005pM-00; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 07:08:39 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA22060 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 06:06:12 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA22056 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 06:06:10 GMT Received: from ns.cro.cz ([193.179.196.2] ident=qmailr) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10u8pi-0005pE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 07:05:59 +0100 Received: (qmail 25083 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 06:05:56 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from fw.cro.cz (HELO ns-int.cro.cz) (193.179.197.2) by ns.cro.cz with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 06:05:56 -0000 Received: from radiohk.hk.cro.cz (ns.hk.cro.cz [172.27.1.2]) by ns-int.cro.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA14276 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 08:05:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc033hk.hk.cro.cz ([172.27.1.33]) by radiohk.hk.cro.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA13014 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 08:05:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by pc033hk.hk.cro.cz with Microsoft Mail id <01BEB7CF.082E06E0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz>; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 08:05:43 +-200 Message-ID: <01BEB7CF.082E06E0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> From: "Petr Maly" To: "'137 kHz'" Subject: LF: DSP? Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 08:05:42 +-200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello lowfers! We are probably damned to fight agains QRN and QRM. Recently I had opportunity to buy an external DSP device. I wonder what the experience of DSP users are. Certainly it is great to have a very narrow non-ringing filter. I mean rather use of noise-reduction techniques. Do they really provide a possibility of making very weak signals (normal CW) more readable? Or is it only a toy and I had better to rely on my well-trained ear? Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29546 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 21:09:11 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 21:09:12 +0100 Received: (qmail 18571 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 18:46:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 18:46:54 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10u8Lt-0005iT-00; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 06:35:09 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA21936 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 05:31:50 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA21932 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 05:31:47 GMT Received: from arl-img-9.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.139]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10u8IT-0005iC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 06:31:37 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by arl-img-9.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.19) id BAA25565 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 01:31:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 01:31:21 -0400 From: "Dave Sergeant" Subject: LF: Antennas, bandwidth, etc To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199906160131_MC2-7996-56AF@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >From Dave G3YMC Received: (qmail 14761 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 22:31:51 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 22:31:51 +0100 Received: (qmail 19528 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 19:50:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 19:50:34 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10u14R-00043u-00; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:48:39 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA18938 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:47:58 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA18934 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:47:55 GMT Received: from merlins.force9.net ([195.166.128.23]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10u132-00043f-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:47:13 +0100 Received: (qmail 1212 invoked from network); 15 Jun 1999 21:51:38 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by merlins.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Jun 1999 21:51:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 17945 invoked from network); 15 Jun 1999 21:17:52 -0000 Received: from 414.hiper01.shef.dialup.force9.net (HELO prstesv1) (195.166.143.158) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Jun 1999 21:17:52 -0000 Message-ID: <003201beb774$0d00d400$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Noise - latest Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:14:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Nick / John, I can rule out BT's "DAX" box which uses analogue carrier multiplex as I had one here for a while with no RF problems on any band. It was USELESS for use with a modem though so it's gone now! 73, Dave G3YXM (again) >On Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:12:16 +0100, you wrote: > >>To briefly answer a few points which were raised: >>Yes, the poles where the noise peaked are definately telephone poles and >>NOT power-line poles > > >Just a wild idea. > >Have any of your neighbours had 'home highway' (the domestic brand of ISDN >installed). > >BT also have a wonderful little pair of boxes which duplexes two BT lines onto >one physical pair of cables. If someone near you has had one fitted depending on >the technology used this could increase the noise on the phone lines. > >Have you looked at the modulation on the noise in a reasonable bandwidth? if it >is 50Hz or harmonic related then it is something to do with distribution wiring >or appliances, if it is not mains synchronous then it is an appliance of some >sort. > >Good luck > >Back to lurk mode > >Nick >G4WHO > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14766 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 22:31:52 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 22:31:52 +0100 Received: (qmail 19532 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 19:50:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 19:50:37 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10u0rt-000411-00; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:35:41 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA18884 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:35:00 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA18880 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:34:57 GMT Received: from merlins.force9.net ([195.166.128.23]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10u0qV-00040t-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:34:15 +0100 Received: (qmail 32405 invoked from network); 15 Jun 1999 21:38:40 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by merlins.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Jun 1999 21:38:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 17576 invoked from network); 15 Jun 1999 21:09:38 -0000 Received: from 414.hiper01.shef.dialup.force9.net (HELO prstesv1) (195.166.143.158) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Jun 1999 21:09:38 -0000 Message-ID: <001401beb772$e65c0e60$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Frequency separation: Normal CW operation Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:03:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Steve et al... I normally try to leave a 200Hz gap between my transmission and other strongish ones but it is sometimes difficult to find a spot on a Saturday or Sunday morning... It is certainly something that everyone must consider when operating on LF, unless you want to hear the whole band at once, use the tightest filter you can get! I recommend a TS850 with International Radio 400Hz filters at both IFs allowing full use of the IF bandwidth controls... superb. 73, dave G3YXM >Over the past month, I had become aware that a certain G-station - new >to LF, but with a very commanding signal on 136.53 kHz - was often heard >to 'clobber' QSOs, and CQ calls from other stations. This puzzled me >greatly, because I knew that the station concerned could usually hear >the other stations involved. > >It appeared to me - and to others - as if the station was deliberately >causing QRM to his fellow LFers. > >Having recently telephoned the operator concerned, I can report that the >reason for the unintentional QRM amounted to a lack of understanding >concerning typical IF bandwidths employed by amateurs on 136 kHz. The >operator concerned is using a receiver with an effective IF bandwidth of >50 Hz (!), and he was quite happy to operate to within 100Hz of other >stations! > >I advised the operator that we tend to assume a receive IF bandwidth of >250 Hz and generally aim to maintain a 300 Hz separation from other >stations. (I believe that 300 Hz has been the figure quoted during LF >Group discussions and at the LF Forum.) I hope I did the right thing. > >But with the fancy new receivers now available (which I'll probably >never be able to afford!), does the Group still feel 300 Hz to be a >reasonable separation for normal CW operation? > >Regards to all, >Steve GW4ALG > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14778 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 22:31:55 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 22:31:55 +0100 Received: (qmail 19535 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 19:50:38 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 19:50:38 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tzVp-0003it-00; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:08:49 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA18014 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:07:05 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA18009 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:07:02 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tzTT-0003hH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:06:23 +0100 Received: from dennison.demon.co.uk ([194.222.239.33]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10tzTQ-000JZY-0C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:06:22 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:41:58 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Mike Dennison" Subject: Re: LF: SCW report saturday june 12 In-reply-to: <37637963.10A5CE69@co.disp.mindef.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org PA3GUC wrote: >I 'saw' 2 transmissions in the >slow cw part of >the LF band. The first from Geri was ok and stable within 1 Hz; a >second signal was okay for >the signal strength, but especially the first part of the transmission >was unreadable because >of a not stable oscillating circuit. That transmission could have been >from Mike, G3XDV > >?3XDV 137.702 - 137.718 kHz. probably calling cq, first part of >transmission not visible. > >I think that to take part in scw, you must have a stable carrier. the >second transmission (G3XDV?) >apparently had thermal feedback from the PA, the frequency drift was >more than 16 Hz, too much. > Thanks for the report, Jaap - I make the distance 477km. I do have some drift right at the start of my transmission, perhaps 10Hz, which is why I start each transmission with two dashes. After that the drift is no more than 2-3Hz for the entire CQ lasting 5 minutes. Yes, I do need to improve on that but even with an unstable carrier I have managed 10 QRSs contacts, including the 73kHz two-way distance record (lasting a year), the first G-ON QSO, 5 with DL, and HB9ASB. I will build a better oscillator but in the meantime, unless I am causing anyone QRM, I will continue using what I am sure you will agree is a super technique for working DX. Hope to work you some day. 73 -- Mike, G3XDV IO91VT www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14784 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 22:31:56 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 22:31:56 +0100 Received: (qmail 19534 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 19:50:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 19:50:38 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10u0WJ-0003uZ-00; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:13:23 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA18520 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:12:39 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA18514 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:12:36 GMT Received: from dh-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.131] helo=hpdmgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10u0Ur-0003uW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:11:54 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.5) id RAA06668 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:11:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:10:58 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel \(DK8KW\)" Subject: Re: LF: SCW report saturday june 12 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199906151711_MC2-798A-6E88@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Mike, G3XDV wrote: >I will build a better oscillator but in the meantime, unless I am >causing anyone QRM, I will continue using what I am sure you will agree >is a super technique for working DX. Mike, don't worry about causing QRM! in my part of Europe I am happy seeing a station. My closest neighbor on LF is 118 km away! I will look out for your signal. If it is drifting, that's an easy way to recognize it. Early Saturday and Sunday morning is a good time for a sked, I can see the "Loran" lines, which means, the band is very quit around that time. I would love to establish a two-way contact with you, even if my antenna is not perfect yet! Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14807 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 22:32:00 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 22:32:00 +0100 Received: (qmail 19531 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 19:50:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 19:50:36 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10uKRS-0000Fe-00; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 19:29:42 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA26231 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 18:26:37 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA26222 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 18:26:32 GMT Received: from praseodumium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10uKNp-0000FT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 19:25:57 +0100 Received: from [212.140.6.200] (helo=tracey.gardner) by praseodumium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10uKJO-0005B7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 19:21:23 +0100 Message-ID: <000001beb825$a9a4c080$c8068cd4@tracey.gardner> From: "Tracey Gardner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Directional LF Antenna Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:53:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hi Mike The K9AY antenna would meet your requirement for a broad front and a "steep" null. Although the original design was not intended to be rotational, the use of two loops at right angles as per Gary Breed's QST article provides four instantly switchable directions. However it would not be impossible to make a single loop rotational but probably more trouble than it is worth when compared with the two loop option. Regards Tracey G5VU -----Original Message----- From: Mike Dennison To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 1999 Jun 16 09:53 Subject: Re: LF: DSP? I suspect that the way forward with LF reception is with a very narrow-band, highly directional rotatable receive antenna with broad front and steep null. This will allow the reduction of amateur QRM, electrical noise, and blocking by commercial signals. Interestingly, when I built an amplified ferrite rod receive antenna for 73kHz it had a much narrower bandwidth (few hundred Hz) and sharper null than my 1m loop antenna - but the loop received better! From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14838 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 22:32:05 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 22:32:05 +0100 Received: (qmail 19529 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 19:50:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 19:50:35 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10uKRW-0000Fh-00; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 19:29:46 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA26232 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 18:26:37 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA26226 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 18:26:33 GMT Received: from praseodumium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10uKNq-0000FW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 19:25:58 +0100 Received: from [212.140.6.200] (helo=tracey.gardner) by praseodumium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10uKJQ-0005B7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 19:21:24 +0100 Message-ID: <000101beb825$aa6ca460$c8068cd4@tracey.gardner> From: "Tracey Gardner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: DACS Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 11:00:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hi Dave Your experience is contrary to that of an amateur up in North Notts who had broad-band interference from the DACS unit that we (BT when I worked there) fitted to give him a second line. It took me several months to get another copper pair provided but it solved the problem. This was some four years ago so perhaps they've improved the latest units! :-) 73s Tracey G5VU -----Original Message----- From: Nick To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 1999 Jun 16 07:07 Subject: Re: LF: Noise - latest >On Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:14:22 +0100, you wrote: > >> >>Nick / John, >> >>I can rule out BT's "DAX" box which uses analogue carrier multiplex as I had >>one here for a while with no RF problems on any band. It was USELESS for use >>with a modem though so it's gone now! >> >>73, Dave G3YXM (again) > >Just a thought. > >If you ever get a power cut listen then, that will tell you a lot. > >Nick > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16273 invoked from network); 17 Jun 1999 01:27:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mashie.force9.net) (195.166.128.30) by caffreys.force9.net with SMTP; 17 Jun 1999 01:27:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 29817 invoked from network); 15 Jun 1999 07:34:48 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Jun 1999 07:34:48 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tnh3-00015J-00; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:31:37 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA13305 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 07:30:39 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA13301 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 07:30:36 GMT Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10tnfp-00014t-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:30:21 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id DAA01472; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 03:35:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA04085; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 03:29:19 -0400 Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by umrsvr.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA20588; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 03:26:21 -0400 Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:26:15 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Soegiono, Gamal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: G4GVC - Noise problem Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:26:14 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello John, G4GVC please find enclosed some more comments on your EMI problem. Sorry for the "long message". G4GVC> comments are very much appreciated and useful in G4GVC> getting to the bottom of this Collecting "ideas" is one way to work your problem out. With such a check list you could confirm or disclose possible noise sources. G4GVC> The latest situation hasn't changed much as I G4GVC> have been very busy again this week, so have G4GVC> had little time to go out DFing. Sorry for the situation hasn't changed (into positive direction). Before I settled in my present QTH, I experienced hard man made noise problems with little left on my side to combat it. We settled in the former QTH, a multiple party house, when only families were living in there. No apparent problems with receiving signals on SW, MF, LF. The third party settled in the house, a few months later receiption on MF and SW up to 80m got interferred continuously. The fourth party settled in the house and another source of interference showed up after few weeks. The latter interference was active daily for some period of time (hours) but very intense. Initial DF with portable MF/LF BC receiver showed that the possible sources must be inside the house. Being away from the house for more than 6-10m did totally calm down the interference to a insignificant and even undetectable level. Using the portable BC receiver (utilizing the built-in magnetic antenna i.e. ferrite antenna) I scanned all electric, TV and telephone wiring. The interfering signals peaked up when being close to any conductive matter, even when close to water and heating pipes. This way I could not trace down the culprit source(s). Then I attempted a more systematic strategy. (1) I logged the occurrence of interference and classified it in strength. From that I knew ther must be at least two sources, one being active 24h/7d with moderate level, others being active daily for hours having high levels which were also different from case to case. (2) I tried to characterize the interfering spectrum in frequency and amplitude, using the same antenna and receiver, bandwidth etc. All parameters on the receive side were keept constant. Again I could discern two different spectra. Both were built up from 50Hz/100Hz spectral lines starting at the lowest frequency of the receiver (25kHz) and being still detectable in the 10m band (I do not receive anything above 30MHz, TV being the exception). The 24h/7d signal lost significance (but still being) detectable) above about 8MHz. The sporadic signal lost it's significance above about 4MHz. Both spectra showed an envelope function, densely filled with mentioned 50/100 Hz spectral lines. The envelopes had maxima at frequencies which were multiples of around 86kHz and minima at the same distances but being 43kHz away from the maxima. I list up the amplitudes for both spectra (the envelope frequencies were slightly different) and got a frequency and amplitude "fingerprint" for the signals. (3) Next I checked wether the 50/100Hz lines were phase synchroneous with mains voltage - they were. No phase synchronism detectable for both envelope frequencies. (4) Using frequencies where only one of the interfering spectra were of significance, again I scanned the house wiring. Now I could make a difference on several mains wire bundles as well as on telephone lines. The portable BC reveiver did not have sensitive or precise signal strength indicator so I had to rely on the aural impression of the demodulated audio. The continuous spectrum I could trace to the mains wiring going to the neighbour at the next floor, the sporadic spectrum I could trace to both, the mains wiring as well as the telephone wires going to the neighbour at the lower floor. The neighbour in the next floor was cooperative, so I could find the source of interference. It was a fax-TAM operated from 24 Volts DC, which was produced by a SMPS external to it. Using a combination of mains filters and ferrite cores, this interference source could be cured. The neighbour in the lower floor wasn't that cooperative, I had to call the authority to finally find the interference sources. He was operating halogen incandescent lamps (12Volts) supplied by SMPS like electronic "transformers". The authority checked the compliance of the installation as such as well as the individual electronic units with the EMI specs. Unfortunately they were in spec but really close to the allowable limits. The specs call for measurments on the mains side (power in side) of the electronic units, not on the low voltage side (power out side). But latter side and the associated wiring was causing the interference. So I could not use the EMI regulations to argue with the neighbour in order to modify the installation. If he had used normal 230 to 12 Volts transformers, he would have obtained the same efficiency and the same functionality of his illumination installation with ZERO interference at the same cost. To cure the remaining sporadic interference I would have to buy filters for the 12Volt power lines or buy mentioned 230 to 12 Volts transformers. Finally I decided to change the QTH for that and for the reason that I could not erect TX antennas at the former QTH. Why I describe my "EMI-case" in such detail? It may give you an impress in which steps a systematic approach could lead to find the culprit sources and find possible solutions to cure the problem. Also the measurements and fingerprinting obtained in my private search process were valuable to argue with the authority to send a search team. I did not pay anything to the authority, because I could prove a interference situation with my antenna/receiver installation which made "normal" receiption of BC signals impossible or at least greatly impaired. The expenses for the authority were equalized by the broadcasters which pay for utilizing BC frequencies and for curing interference. G4GVC> The noise is still running continuously at S9 on G4GVC> 136kHz, It would be of benefit (in case you need to call your authorities) to know the field strength of the interfering signal. For the same reason I recommend to confirm that the spectrum interfering with receiption on 137kHz is the same as interference observed on MF BC band. This could be done by the "fingerprint" method outlined above. G4GVC> Yes, the poles where the noise peaked are definately G4GVC> telephone poles and NOT power-line poles. As in my case, the interfering SMPS coupled into the mains wiring as well as into the telephone lines, as it was supplying a telecommunication equipment, attached to both. So don't be puzzled if you can detect the interference on both kind of wiring. G4GVC> The local transformer happens to be right outside G4GVC> the telephone exchange, but as mentioned last time, G4GVC> the noise didn't show a peak anywhere in that immediate G4GVC> area, and I'm not climbing over the fence to get in G4GVC> really close! >From that we can preliminarily conclude, that the mains wiring from house to house and the telephone wiring from house to house is just distributing the interfering signals but not necessarily the cause of the interference. G4GVC> I happen to have a bat-detector, so if it is an arcing problem I G4GVC> am already equipped to 'hear' it Arcing problems are frequently found on but not limited to lines carrying "high" voltages i.e. _more_ than 1kVolts. If arcing occurs, then the emitted spectrum is indeed broad band. Mains supply companies utilize a portable VHF DF finding equipment to localize defective isolators causing arcing. The emitted signal appears as a continous spectrum (envelope function) with small differences in between maxima and minima and being filled with 50/100 Hz spectral lines. There is a similarity with Aurora signals appearance. The ultrasonic detecting equipment is well for the close in search process, to find the individual isolator on a pole, where the VHF DF equipment is good to sort out the pole while driving along a HV line or while flying in a helicopter above it. G4GVC> I used the Walkman to check for noise at our house G4GVC> consumer box. Does "Walkman" mean that you used the built in BC receiver? Or did you utilize the magnetic head of its tape recorder to detect magnetic fields? G4GVC> Yes, it is louder there, but so are all the BC signals. G4GVC> The noise is louder still where the central-heating G4GVC> pipes run up the wall and into the loft (attic), so G4GVC> I think this is all just a re-radiation effect. Yes, apparently. At first I made the same observation with my EMI case. I had to made a spectrum fingerprint first (selecting a frequency component associated with only one EMI source) befor I could make a more direction sensitive search. Observing the amplitude and/or the antenna's position while scanning along the house wiring bundles did the thing to discern which wiring actually carrying the interfering signal. G4GVC> the medium-wave noise appears to NOT be local to me. G4GVC> On foot, I observed it getting weaker, but in the car G4GVC> driving to work I discovered that it comes up again as G4GVC> you get further away and there appears to be a fixed G4GVC> 'standing-wave' effect of peaks and troughs in the G4GVC> noise. I could still hear it well on the car radio G4GVC> at work - 5 miles away in the centre of the city! G4GVC> Now I have to investigate whether I am confusing the G4GVC> issue by listening on medium wave - maybe that is a G4GVC> different source from my 136kHz problem? If not, G4GVC> it's one heck of a noise source..... Please check that the interference on 137kHz and the interference on MF BC band is in fact the same (fingerprinting method). You (as happened to me initially) get easily fooled if you cannot discern the source(s). OK John, I hope this info is of some benefit for you. Please do not hesitate to get in contact with me for any assistance. Best 73 Gamal Soegiono (SWL) 50N01 / 08E27 / JO 40 fa soegiono@nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29789 invoked from network); 17 Jun 1999 09:29:02 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 17 Jun 1999 09:29:02 +0100 Received: (qmail 26702 invoked from network); 17 Jun 1999 08:05:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jun 1999 08:05:05 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10uVJi-0002qJ-00; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:06:26 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA30212 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 06:00:10 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA30207 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 06:00:06 GMT Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226] helo=gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10uVDP-0002mh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 06:59:55 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA02002; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:00:47 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Message-ID: From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" To: "'rsgb_lf_group'" Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:59:53 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hallo Lowfwers. Lets resume the discussion about a talk back frequency and a special operation time as df2py suggested. I am not sure if there was an agreement. I think a talkback frequency as used by the vhf and uhf groups, would be very usefull. An advantage of using the 20 m band is, many LF stations use their wire ant (normally used for 40,80,160) for lf. So a parallel listening to the talkback freq or even transmitting, while being on tx on lf, is not possible. The size of a 20m ant is smaller than one for lower freqs and is much easier to build up even for portable operation. If the 20m band is usefull for making MS-skeds which have distances of 1000 to 2000 km it could be useful for LF too. Does anyone know some freq. gaps where no special group or modulation is settled. What about the operation time df2py suggested? The hour between 19.00 and 20.00 UTC is ok for me. My intention is to find a decision about a fixed frequency and a fixed day/time . These informations, when fixed, could be propagated via Internet (homepages,e-mail) and PR. What is the opinion in the group? I´m happy about every answer or suggestion. 73 de dl1san (Wolf) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21998 invoked from network); 17 Jun 1999 15:49:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by medusa.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jun 1999 15:49:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 11155 invoked from network); 17 Jun 1999 11:20:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jun 1999 11:20:08 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10uYE3-0003RK-00; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:12:47 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA31044 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:12:31 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA31039 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:12:28 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10uYDT-0003R8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:12:11 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10uYDj-0006eg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:12:28 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:59:14 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:00:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Re: Operating times Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Lets resume the discussion about a talk back frequency and a special > operation time as df2py suggested. I am not sure if there was an agreement. I have been puzzled by the call for special operating times, and I think it may be driven by those outside the centre of activity who do not know when most activity occurs now. Quite simply, the vast majority of 136kHz activity takes place on Saturday and Sunday mornings from about 0600 to 1000 UTC. This is because many people are at home and the QRN and electrical QRM are at their lowest. There is an opportunity for low noise QSOs between 0600 and 0730 UTC most days - but best to set up skeds, and if the QRN is low there is a peak of activity for an hour or so after sunset in the evening. But if you want QSOs, go for weekend mornings. Also, if any newcomers don't know, activity tends to peak between 136.4 and 137.0kHz and you can find extremely slow CW around 137.7kHz. Another tip: if you are making fewer QSOs than you think you should, check this reflector to find out if you have been heard by people you cannot hear - then perhaps spend some time on the receive system. Old amateur radio saying: "If you can't hear them, you can't work them." Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed Return-Path: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 8960 invoked from network); 17 Jun 1999 20:11:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 17 Jun 1999 20:11:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 28913 invoked from network); 17 Jun 1999 13:35:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jun 1999 13:35:01 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ucEl-0004J0-00; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:29:47 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA32651 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:27:27 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA32647 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:27:24 GMT Received: from ns.cro.cz ([193.179.196.2] ident=qmailr) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ucBt-0004Ik-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:26:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 4539 invoked from network); 17 Jun 1999 13:26:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from fw.cro.cz (HELO ns-int.cro.cz) (193.179.197.2) by ns.cro.cz with SMTP; 17 Jun 1999 13:26:47 -0000 Received: from radiohk.hk.cro.cz (ns.hk.cro.cz [172.27.1.2]) by ns-int.cro.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA27033 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:26:46 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc033hk.hk.cro.cz ([172.27.1.33]) by radiohk.hk.cro.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA17225 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:26:40 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by pc033hk.hk.cro.cz with Microsoft Mail id <01BEB8D5.CB3EFC00@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz>; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:26:39 +-200 Message-ID: <01BEB8D5.CB3EFC00@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> From: "Petr Maly" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: Operating times Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:26:37 +-200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org I do not know how the band is crowded or empty in UK. Maybe it is enough for you to listen few minutes and you hear some station at weekend mornings. Not so in OK. I must listen hours and hours and most is given by chance here. Signals are few and tiny. If there were some prefered times (let say each hour starting at 00 min) I would listen each hour for five or ten minutes to check the band and rest of hour I could devote to another work. Certainly such a rule wouldn't prevent anybody from listening/transmitting at any time he wants. That is my point of view. Petr, OK1FIG ---------- Od: Mike Dennison[SMTP:mike.dennison@rsgb.org.uk] Odesláno: 17. cervna 1999 11:00 Komu: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Predmet: LF: Re: Operating times > Lets resume the discussion about a talk back frequency and a special > operation time as df2py suggested. I am not sure if there was an agreement. I have been puzzled by the call for special operating times, and I think it may be driven by those outside the centre of activity who do not know when most activity occurs now. Quite simply, the vast majority of 136kHz activity takes place on Saturday and Sunday mornings from about 0600 to 1000 UTC. This is because many people are at home and the QRN and electrical QRM are at their lowest. There is an opportunity for low noise QSOs between 0600 and 0730 UTC most days - but best to set up skeds, and if the QRN is low there is a peak of activity for an hour or so after sunset in the evening. But if you want QSOs, go for weekend mornings. Also, if any newcomers don't know, activity tends to peak between 136.4 and 137.0kHz and you can find extremely slow CW around 137.7kHz. Another tip: if you are making fewer QSOs than you think you should, check this reflector to find out if you have been heard by people you cannot hear - then perhaps spend some time on the receive system. Old amateur radio saying: "If you can't hear them, you can't work them." Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6853 invoked from network); 18 Jun 1999 06:20:31 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Jun 1999 06:20:31 +0100 Received: (qmail 31673 invoked from network); 17 Jun 1999 17:54:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jun 1999 17:54:33 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ugJx-0005Fo-00; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:51:25 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA01526 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 17:50:29 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA01522 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 17:50:21 GMT Received: from merlins.force9.net ([195.166.128.23]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ugIN-0005F5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:49:47 +0100 Received: (qmail 4550 invoked from network); 17 Jun 1999 17:54:21 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by merlins.force9.net with SMTP; 17 Jun 1999 17:54:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 1977 invoked from network); 17 Jun 1999 17:56:09 -0000 Received: from 45.hiper02.shef.dialup.plus.net.uk (HELO prstesv1) (195.166.144.45) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jun 1999 17:56:09 -0000 Message-ID: <005f01beb8ea$2d0ae7a0$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: operating times Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:52:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Dear all, I put a request on the news page for suggestions on operating times and the response seems to agree with what has been suggested on this reflector. That is: Saturday and Sunday mornings, from as early as 0600gmt. Around 1900 to 2000 each evening. I hope these discussions don't dissuade people from coming on at other times! 73, Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17098 invoked from network); 18 Jun 1999 07:28:58 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Jun 1999 07:28:58 +0100 Received: (qmail 5128 invoked from network); 17 Jun 1999 18:41:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Jun 1999 18:41:39 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ugyy-0005PS-00; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:33:48 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA01907 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:33:02 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA01903 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:32:59 GMT Received: from mailout04.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ugxb-0005PM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:32:23 +0100 Received: from fwd06.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.166]) by mailout04.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 10ugxa-0002SJ-00; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:32:22 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (320057114934-0001(btxid)@[193.159.119.251]) by fwd06.btx.dtag.de id ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:32:18 +0200 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:32:18 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: DK7UY@geocities.com Subject: LF: Again activity times X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 320057114934-0001@t-online.de From: "DF2PY" Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Lowfers ! With much interest i have been reading Petr`s and Günter`s comments on activity times.Like Petr said,it might help if we install something like a " quarter past the hour " time window where we put on activity-something like it. And of course the mornings promiss the best possible low qrn.But evenings are convenient to a lot of us who still have to work full days. Maybe we can come up with a good compromise on that issue. And somebody was mentchaning on the reflector that activity substantially decreased over the last few weeks- whats the reason ? holidays are coming up and qrn is being present on a lot of days.But even loud signals from the 400km radius have been silent.lets get something going to increase the use and experience-gathering on LF. BTW. I am just CQ-ing for an hour and no one on the band. 73 and best Dx to You down ( on LF ) there ! de df2py From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19035 invoked from network); 18 Jun 1999 15:06:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by medusa.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Jun 1999 15:06:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 718 invoked from network); 18 Jun 1999 05:37:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jun 1999 05:37:57 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ur4n-0007Xu-00; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 06:20:29 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA05979 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 05:17:10 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA05975 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 05:17:07 GMT Received: from dh-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.131] helo=hpdmgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ur1M-0007XO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 06:16:57 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.5) id BAA25792 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 01:16:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 01:16:08 -0400 From: "Dave Sergeant" Subject: Re: LF: Antennas, bandwidth, etc To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199906180116_MC2-79DE-E0E9@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >From Dave G3YMC Bob ZL2CA says: Received: (qmail 28672 invoked from network); 18 Jun 1999 16:19:18 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Jun 1999 16:19:18 +0100 Received: (qmail 5340 invoked from network); 18 Jun 1999 07:05:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jun 1999 07:05:30 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10usgc-0007rK-00; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:03:38 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA06524 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 07:02:08 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA06520 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 07:02:04 GMT Received: from ns.cro.cz ([193.179.196.2] ident=qmailr) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10useo-0007rA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:01:50 +0100 Received: (qmail 8420 invoked from network); 18 Jun 1999 07:01:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from fw.cro.cz (HELO ns-int.cro.cz) (193.179.197.2) by ns.cro.cz with SMTP; 18 Jun 1999 07:01:37 -0000 Received: from radiohk.hk.cro.cz (ns.hk.cro.cz [172.27.1.2]) by ns-int.cro.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01794 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:01:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc033hk.hk.cro.cz ([172.27.1.33]) by radiohk.hk.cro.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA18624 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:01:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by pc033hk.hk.cro.cz with Microsoft Mail id <01BEB969.2298DAA0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz>; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:01:21 +-200 Message-ID: <01BEB969.2298DAA0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> From: "Petr Maly" To: "'137 kHz'" Subject: LF: Operating times - last message Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:01:20 +-200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Lowfers. I promise this is a last msg concerning the topic. Let me only annonce that unless I have time enough or conditions get better I will concentrate my effort to first few minutes of an hour. Others can join the system or not. This weekend I will not go to the weekend cottage and therefore I will be mainly listening Slow-CW (137.5 - 137.8) (LW 40 m about 6 m above ground, in large city). Try to start transmission at 00 min of an hour, hi... 73 Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 570 invoked from network); 18 Jun 1999 16:24:49 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Jun 1999 16:24:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 7461 invoked from network); 18 Jun 1999 07:31:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jun 1999 07:31:55 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ut2B-0007wR-00; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:25:55 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA06657 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 07:24:56 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA06653 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 07:24:54 GMT Received: from heavymetal.isys.net ([195.64.96.45] helo=mail1.isys.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ut0y-0007v1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:24:40 +0100 Received: from pc [195.64.97.2] by mail1.isys.net with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 10utL8-0003Hr-00; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:45:30 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Klaus von der Heide" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:25:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Re: Antennas, bandwidth, etc Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199906180116_MC2-79DE-E0E9@compuserve.com> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Message-ID: Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Lowfwer's Suppression of noise only works well when its behavior is known at the place where the suppression acts. A suppression of pulse type noise by a DSP will work even in the very narrow band case when the impulse response of the system including the antenna is known. The DSP would correlate the incoming signal with some typical noise patterns and subtract this noise correctly in amplitude and phase without cutting off the signal at that time. The typical noise patterns could be identified by the DSP itself. The problem of the narrow band case is that the characteristic steep edges of pulses are filtered out. So the differentiation between gaussian noise, pulses, and signal is difficult. A parallel running broadband receiver would help to locate the pulses. Designing such a noise blanker specially for LF-type noise seems to me a very useful and interesting task. Unfortunately I have null time to do such things on my DSP's before september. Is someone interested? My course on Digital Signal Processing ist available from: http://tech-www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/Lehre/dsp99/ It is entirely based on MATLAB (Student's Edition) (and Motorola DSP56002EVM). The file dsp.zip contains the whole material. Chapters 13...16 are still in progress. 73 de Klaus, DJ5HG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12699 invoked from network); 18 Jun 1999 18:24:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by murphys.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Jun 1999 18:24:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 22344 invoked from network); 18 Jun 1999 17:11:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Jun 1999 17:11:37 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10v28j-0001i5-00; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 18:09:17 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA10301 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 17:08:30 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA10287 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 17:08:22 GMT Received: from [203.96.92.3] (helo=mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10v27I-0001fT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 18:07:49 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [202.27.181.233] by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990618170942.UEWD364447.mta2-rme@[202.27.181.233]> for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 05:09:42 +1200 Message-ID: <3769F784.6325@xtra.co.nz> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 19:38:44 +1200 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Antennas, bandwidth, etc References: <199906180116_MC2-79DE-E0E9@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Dave Sergeant wrote: > > >From Dave G3YMC > > Bob ZL2CA says: > > > I have never found a noise blanker on any amateur receiver which has the > slightest effect on the sort of noise we encounter on 136 or any of the LF > bands, and they only really seem to work on ignition type of noise such as > you might expect on VHF. Some recent rigs may perform better, but in > reality the noise blanker on most rigs is wasted space and it is no great > loss if it works even less well with a narrow band antenna! > > 73s Dave G3YMC I can say that at least 3 ZL LowFers find the noise blankers on Icom IC-751, Icom IC-735 and Kenwood TS 520 to be effective on LF, equivalent to 6 dB or so of signal improvement. This is mostly for "spike" type of noise. All the noise blankers are in the IF, using the "Lamb" type of noise blanking with a diode ring type of noise gate, before the main IF filter. Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26718 invoked from network); 19 Jun 1999 12:17:04 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Jun 1999 12:17:04 +0100 Received: (qmail 2812 invoked from network); 19 Jun 1999 11:16:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jun 1999 11:16:34 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10vJ5F-0005Os-00; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 12:14:49 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA16723 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 11:14:45 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA16719 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 11:14:29 GMT Received: from [143.179.236.31] (helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10vJ4e-0005Op-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 12:14:12 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.150.124]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA352F; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 13:14:03 +0200 Message-ID: <000d01beba45$45c1ef80$7c96b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Cc: "Gerrtit Jan Huijsman, PA0GJH Pieter.Bruinsma@gironet.nl" Subject: LF: Noise blanker by PA0LQ Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 13:16:25 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE
 
Harry, PA0LQ, lives on the 12th (top) floor of an apartment
building. When he wants to operate on LF he sticks out a fishing
rod from his balcony and lets out some 35 m of antenna wire, feeding it at the top end.
At first the wire simply hung down.
Because the distance between wire and building was only 3
meters the efficiency of the antenna was extremely low and the
wire swaying in the wind caused variable loading of the
transmitter, leading to QSB.
At the next step the wire at the bottom end was strung to a
lamppost about 18 m from the building.
Finally Harry attached the end of the wire, now about 60 m long, to a tree some 40
from the builing. Together with an increase of transmitter power
from 70 to about 300 W Harry's signals, both transmitted and
received, over the months have improved some 15 dB, as those of you
regularly work PA0LQ can confirm.
Harry only uses home constructed equipment. His receiver
(136 - 10 - 1 kHz) includes an effective noise blanker.
As Harry has no E-mail/Internet facility he asked me to put
some details of the noise blanker on the reflector which I do
with pleasure. The more so as noise blankers seem to be quite
a topic at the moment.
 
By the way, I will not be on the air myself this and the
coming weekend as my LF transmitter will be at the Ham Radio
event at Friedrichshafen where the TX will be on display at
the VERON booth.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
JO22GD
D.W. Rollema
V.d. Marckstraat 5
2352 RA Leiderdorp
The Netherlands
Tel. +31 71 589 27 34
E-mail: d.w.rollema@gironet.nl
or
pa0se@amsat.org.
 
PA0LQ wrote:
  
LF and the QRM-problem.
 
At my QTH there sometimes exists a serious QRM problem. In
general the noise level is already rather high, probably due to the
continuous burning of over 100 fluorescent lamps on the inner corridors
of the flat building. I have to live with that. But other noise sources like light
dimmers, speed regulators of hand tools and the like can be partially cured,
provided it is an impulse noise related to the mains frequency. To find
this out, connect an oscilloscope to your receiver's audio output
and trigger it to the mains (50 Hz) frequency. If the result is a
still picture of the noise you then can find out if it has either a 50
Hz or 100 Hz relationship.
I have made a noise blanker system  based on
the mains frequency.
The 50 Hz or 100 Hz source can be derived from the receiver's
mains transformer or otherwise. After clipping it into sharp pulses
or a square wave it triggers two time-variable monostable MV's in
sequence in order to obtain the correct phase relationship with the
noise. Then a third monostable is triggered to provide an adjustable gating
signal for the series switch in the receiver's signal path.
 
 The monostables I used were CD4528 CMOS IC's.
 
 The switching function can then be done by either a junction-
or a MOSFET.
 
 It is my experience that the series switch has to be
inserted in the path where the signal level is already rather high. Otherwise
the switching action produces loud bangs making the cure worse than
the evil.
If you insert the switch in the audio path to speaker or headphone, do it prior
to a small bandwidth audio filter, if you use one.
 
The procedure is as follows:
Switch the noise blanker on and set the blanker pulse width
to average.
Carefully adjust the timing of one or both delay MV's, until
the noise is at minimum. Then adjust blanker pulse width for an optimum. A slight
readjustment of the time delay then may be needed.
In this way a loud S9 plus noise can be reduced to some S4 or
less.
 
Anybody interested for more details please write to me. There is no
print lay out available as I never make PCB's. Use VEROBOARD or the like.
 
 My address:
Harry Grimbergen, PAoLQ.
Lijtweg 1202
2341 HE Oegstgeest
The Netherlands.
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9282 invoked from network); 19 Jun 1999 14:08:39 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Jun 1999 14:08:39 +0100 Received: (qmail 26117 invoked from network); 19 Jun 1999 13:08:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jun 1999 13:08:20 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10vKnm-0005iS-01; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 14:04:54 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA17358 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 13:04:41 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA17354 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 13:04:37 GMT Received: from mashie.force9.net ([195.166.128.30]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10vKnQ-0005iP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 14:04:32 +0100 Received: (qmail 13129 invoked from network); 19 Jun 1999 13:01:21 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Jun 1999 13:01:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 4859 invoked from network); 19 Jun 1999 13:11:04 -0000 Received: from 429.hiper02.shef.dialup.plus.net.uk (HELO prstesv1) (195.166.145.173) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jun 1999 13:11:04 -0000 Message-ID: <003e01beba54$a7acee20$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: CQ times Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 14:07:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Dear all. I heartily agree with Petr's suggestion of calling "on the hour" to minimise fruitless listening. I have used this technique when trying DX daylight tests on 160 and it certainly saves time. I will try do call on the hour on 136. The only danger is that we will all call at once on the hour then all listen and hear nothing! I think someone suggested a different time for QRS calls, perhaps "half-past" so that a one can concentrate on the appropriate mode at the appropriate time. Further thoughts? 73, Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11829 invoked from network); 19 Jun 1999 14:32:19 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Jun 1999 14:32:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 11436 invoked from network); 19 Jun 1999 13:31:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Jun 1999 13:31:49 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10vLCX-0005ns-01; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 14:30:29 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA17488 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 13:30:29 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA17484 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 13:30:27 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10vLCP-0005np-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 14:30:21 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10vLBY-0007NO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 14:29:29 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 14:13:38 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 14:14:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Disruptiopn ahead at blacksheep.org Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001901beba3b$47c6cbc0$6401a8c0@int.thorcom.com> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > To all blacksheep.org mailing list members > > There will be some disruption over this weekend as we're working to migrate > the blacksheep.org services onto new servers - should be all done by Sunday > evening. Sorry for any inconvenience. > > 73 Peter G4MJS Thanks, Peter for providing such a useful service. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2120 invoked from network); 20 Jun 1999 02:28:11 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 20 Jun 1999 02:28:11 +0100 Received: (qmail 6919 invoked from network); 20 Jun 1999 01:27:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Jun 1999 01:27:40 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10vW7F-0008Dg-00; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 02:09:45 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA20592 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 01:07:23 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA20588 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 01:07:21 GMT Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10vW4t-0008C3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 02:07:20 +0100 Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Sun, 20 Jun 1999 03:07:14 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de (PC108136.dial.uni-kiel.de [134.245.108.136]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA13728 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 03:07:15 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <376C3EC1.6D68FEB0@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 03:07:13 +0200 From: "Peter W. Schnoor" Organization: University of Kiel, Clinic of Nephrology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Lightning Maps... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Group, There's a link about SFERICS (Lightnings) all over Europe including some maps: http://www.torro.org.uk/sfinfo.htm (O.K. it does not help to cancel out QRN but may be comforting...) 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2795 invoked from network); 20 Jun 1999 11:05:58 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 20 Jun 1999 11:05:58 +0100 Received: (qmail 27522 invoked from network); 20 Jun 1999 10:05:44 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Jun 1999 10:05:44 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10veG6-0001Mc-00; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 10:51:26 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA22921 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 09:51:30 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@[194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA22825 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 09:36:32 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ve1O-0001Hu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 10:36:14 +0100 Received: from pagnell.demon.co.uk ([158.152.83.229]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10ve1M-0002le-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 09:36:13 +0000 Message-ID: <2Vkz$LA9XLb3EwqQ@pagnell.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 10:35:57 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "John W Gould" Subject: Re: LF: Disruptiopn ahead at blacksheep.org In-reply-to: <001901beba3b$47c6cbc0$6401a8c0@int.thorcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Peter, thanks for the warning. You're doing a great job - we do appreciate it! John In message <001901beba3b$47c6cbc0$6401a8c0@int.thorcom.com>, Peter Bowyer writes >To all blacksheep.org mailing list members > >There will be some disruption over this weekend as we're working to migrate >the blacksheep.org services onto new servers - should be all done by Sunday >evening. Sorry for any inconvenience. > >73 Peter G4MJS > > -- John Gould, G3WKL G3WKL @GB7BEN.#43.GBR.EU g3wkl@pagnell.demon.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12322 invoked from network); 20 Jun 1999 23:39:19 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 20 Jun 1999 23:39:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 12538 invoked from network); 20 Jun 1999 22:39:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Jun 1999 22:39:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10vq2B-0001rQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 23:25:51 +0100 Received: from tantalum.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.80]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10vq2A-0001rL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 23:25:50 +0100 Received: from [212.140.35.247] (helo=default) by tantalum.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10vq1P-0001nk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 23:25:04 +0100 Message-ID: <000001bebb6b$c1563620$f7238cd4@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: weekend report &cluster spots 19/20 June Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 23:21:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Well the Cluster looks like a personal listening-log again this weekend! So you might as well have the notes that I didn't generate spots for as well. My notes for Saturday the 19th record DF2PY on 136.9 at 0805 and G4GVC at 0810Z. It was nice to hear John's distinctive BIG signal again. I trust this means the noise has been defeated? G3YXM's CQ at 0930Z on 137.1 khz was replied to, though was not heard. The reply was too weak to hear here but showed up on the waterfall DSP plot. I also heard PA0LQ work MM0ALN at 579 at about 1620 (not sure whether that was Zulu or BST) MM0ALN was about 529 here when the loop was turned to favour him. On Sunday the 20th I think the QRN must have been bad into Europe. I heard DF2PY sending cq from abt 0745Z and I noted that a couple of times a signal appeared as he went to rx, weak and unreadable with me and not heard by Wolf. G3BDQ called DF2PY at 0850Z and was not heard, but had a 579 qso with MM0ALN. Finally I heard G3YXM one of the BIG UK signals call DF2PY at 0911Z and again at 0937 with no reply. I guess Dave must have been coping Wolf at abt 599. Dave was so strong here I could see 100Hz sidebands on his signal on the waterfall plot and hear a distict low tone almost like MCW (though the sidebands must be at least 45dB down). I also copied G6NB working G3YMC, but I'm afraid I couldn't see you even on the waterfall plot, Dave. I will definitely have to increase the sensitivity threshold at this end! I found the static 'patchy' this weeekend, with crunches rather than crashes. These seemed to come in bursts, may be 10 to 20 in one minute and then a couple of relatively quiet minutes. I guess it must have been worse further East. Cluster (last 20 requested) entries as follows:- 136.4 PA0CC 15-Jun-1999 1640Z cq 549 in JO30 137.0 ANYBODY 15-Jun-1999 0939Z qrv for a qso nw? G3NYK de GB7DXM 20-Jun 2133Z > 1800.0 G3YXM 20-Jun-1999 1540Z cq 137.08khz 1800.0 G3YXM 20-Jun-1999 0945Z calling df2py...no reply 1800.0 G3YXM 20-Jun-1999 0921Z cq 137.08khz 1800.0 ON4ZK 20-Jun-1999 0839Z QRS CQ 137.74khz 1800.0 G3XDV 20-Jun-1999 0827Z QRS cq 137.7khz 1800.0 DF2PY 20-Jun-1999 0815Z cq 136.8khz 1800.0 G3XDV 20-Jun-1999 0806Z QRS 137.7khz 1800.0 G4GVC 20-Jun-1999 0804Z cq 136.4khz 1800.0 ON4ZK 20-Jun-1999 0741Z QRS cq 137.73khz 1800.0 G3XDV 19-Jun-1999 1935Z QRS 137.74khz 1800.0 G3KEV 19-Jun-1999 1004Z cq 136.2khz 1800.0 G3YXM 19-Jun-1999 0955Z cq 137.1khz 1800.0 DF2PY 19-Jun-1999 0942Z cq 136.90khz 1800.0 G3XTZ 19-Jun-1999 0831Z 136.9khz QRZ 1800.0 G3XTZ 19-Jun-1999 0830Z 136.9khz 1800.0 ON4ZK 19-Jun-1999 0829Z QRS cq 137.74 khz 1800.0 G3XDV 19-Jun-1999 0823Z QRS cq 137.7khz 1800.0 G4GVC 19-Jun-1999 0822Z cq 137.20khz 1800.0 DF2PY 19-Jun-1999 0700Z ==CQing on 136.8 kHz== 1800.0 DF2PY 18-Jun-1999 1319Z == CQing on 136.9 kHz == G3NYK de GB7DXM 20-Jun 2133Z > I don't reckon that lot is 'news' to anyone in the UK but hopefully it may of interest further afield. 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2027 invoked from network); 21 Jun 1999 08:59:47 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Jun 1999 08:59:47 +0100 Received: (qmail 1544 invoked from network); 21 Jun 1999 07:59:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jun 1999 07:59:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10vyYc-0003gl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:31:54 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from ns.cro.cz ([193.179.196.2] ident=qmailr) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10vyYZ-0003gf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:31:51 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20003 invoked from network); 21 Jun 1999 07:31:36 -0000 Received: from fw.cro.cz (HELO ns-int.cro.cz) (193.179.197.2) by ns.cro.cz with SMTP; 21 Jun 1999 07:31:36 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from radiohk.hk.cro.cz (ns.hk.cro.cz [172.27.1.2]) by ns-int.cro.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15713 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:31:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc033hk.hk.cro.cz ([172.27.1.33]) by radiohk.hk.cro.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA23217 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:31:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by pc033hk.hk.cro.cz with Microsoft Mail id <01BEBBC8.D412AE80@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz>; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:31:23 +-200 Message-ID: <01BEBBC8.D412AE80@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> From: "Petr Maly" To: "'137 kHz'" Subject: LF: Weekend report 19-20/6 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:31:22 +-200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello Lowfers. This weekend stayed in the city and listened on 40m LW, 6m above ground. I prooved again that this ant is insufficient, giving 40dB lesser signals than the one at the cottage. If I want to listen at this QTH I must either build selective preamplifier or make loop ant again. Tried many times (specially at full hours) to watch Spectrogram. No success. Ones I tuned across the whole band and heard DF2PY calling CQ in normal CW. I changed Spectrogram settings and recorded him. Of course, it has no sense to record audible signals... Getting QRV: Having done PCB with tuned 1.36 MHz osc and another PCB with deviders and keyed drivers (thanks G3YXM for his kind help). Only to put them into a box and add a final stage with two IRF mosfets. If all goes well I could undertake first experiments with TX (perhaps Slow-CW) during the following weekend. I will let you know. 73! Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12756 invoked from network); 21 Jun 1999 09:52:27 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Jun 1999 09:52:27 +0100 Received: (qmail 16529 invoked from network); 21 Jun 1999 08:52:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jun 1999 08:52:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10vzed-0003y5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:42:11 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10vzec-0003xw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:42:10 +0100 Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id EAA15026; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 04:47:15 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA26202; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 04:41:07 -0400 Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by umrsvr.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA13403; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 04:40:38 -0400 Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:40:14 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Soegiono, Gamal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: coiling winding problem Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:40:08 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello All Recently I purchased a tuned passive magnetic antenna for receiption of utility stations in the 70-150 kHz range. Initial messurements on it showed, that sensitivity was only slightly lower than required for 137 kHz amateur signals and bandwith much too broad. The antenna consists of a ferrite rod 285 mm in length and 28mm in diameter (made from 19 staggered toroids). The antenna winding consisted of 175 turns made from 0.335 mm diameter stranded annealed copper wire, additionally insulated with silk filament. The coil former has 30mm inner diameter, 50mm outer diameter and about 10mm in length. The coil can be characterized as a flat or short multilayer solenoid. coil without ferrite rod L0=1.3mH R(137kHz)=9.1 Ohms Q0=124 coil with ferrite rod L0=7.1mH R(137kHz)=70 Ohms Q0=87 In order to reduce losses of the complete antenna system I decided to re-wind the coil with larger size of conductor. I had 2mm diameter annealed copper wire available. The coil then was made 90mm in length, 4 layers, 42 turns per layer. The coil can be characterized as a long multilayer solenoid. After assembly and on air testing I had to learn, that bandwidth increased instead of being reduced. Measuring the new coil without ferrite rod: L0=0.3mH R(137kHz)=11 Ohms Q0=24 confirms that the new coiling scheeme was not good to reduce coil losses. Questions: How do I form a low loss coil for 137 kHz using mentioned 2mm annealed copper wire? Shall I use other form factor? Shall I use greater distance between wires? Any suggestions and hints are welcome. Best 73 Gamal Soegiono (SWL) 50N01 / 08E27 / JO 40 fa soegiono@nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13847 invoked from network); 21 Jun 1999 09:57:23 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Jun 1999 09:57:23 +0100 Received: (qmail 17319 invoked from network); 21 Jun 1999 08:57:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jun 1999 08:57:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10vziF-0003yX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:45:55 +0100 Received: from public2.thorcom.com ([212.172.148.20] helo=public1.thorcom.com ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10vziE-0003yS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:45:54 +0100 Received: from artemis.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.126]) by public1.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10vziE-0001q9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:45:54 +0100 Received: from pc171.geog.le.ac.uk ([143.210.151.171] helo=kate) by artemis.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10vzf9-0001Xr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:42:43 +0100 Message-ID: <005001bebbc1$0a5b7240$ab97d28f@kate.geog.le.ac.uk> From: "Kate Moore" To: "lfgroup" Subject: LF: Back again! Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:35:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Well, just as abruptly as it appeared, my monster noise source mysteriously vanished on Friday, so things are back to normal again at last. Hopefully it has either blown up or been fixed, and therefore won't suddenly re-appear! The only remaining annoyance is that I never did track down what it was, but as expected the noise on Medium Wave, topband, 80m and 40m has also gone, so it must have been pretty nasty, whatever it was....... A very big thank you to everyone who provided ideas and support whilst I was off air. Stations worked here over the weekend on 136kHz using normal speed CW: Saturday 19/6 GW4ALG (06.50: he was 57/89, gave me 589), PA0LQ (07.02: 579, 589), MM0ALM (07.24: 589, 569), G3YMC (07.38: 569, 599), G3YXM (08.59: 59+9, 59+9), EI0CF (09.08: 579, 569), G3XTZ (16.41: 599, 599), MM0ALM (21.08: 589, 569). Sunday 16/5 MM0ALM (08.03: 589, 579). By the time I listened on Friday evening, static levels were very high so I didn't bother tuning up the antenna, but I did hear OZ1KMR calling CQ at good strength through the crashes. Saturday morning activity was excellent and there were even some QRM problems at times with stations calling CQ over the top of QSOs! It was really good to be back on 136 again after a month off air, and I was pleased to work five countries in one session! We were busy on Sunday, and some weak psu-buzz QRM appeared at times, so I didn't very work much. Look forward to being a lot more active again in the coming weeks. Regards John G4GVC near Leicester, IO92JP ** TX: Synth + 400W RF from modified 'G3YXM' Mosfet PA ** ** RX: TS-850S with 3 x CW filters and 0.5ppm TCXO ** ** Ant: Inv-L 60m long, 6m high at feed end, 12m high at far end ** From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16332 invoked from network); 21 Jun 1999 14:38:37 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Jun 1999 14:38:37 +0100 Received: (qmail 14470 invoked from network); 21 Jun 1999 13:38:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jun 1999 13:38:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10w42t-0005BY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:23:31 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10w42q-0005BQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:23:28 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10w41v-00050O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:22:32 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:09:39 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:11:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: weekend report 19/20 June X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Saturday 19 June Very bad local QRM, mostly S9 white noise all over band. Heard G4GVC (599); G3YXM (599) and G3OLB (589). Saw on Spectrogram (which was less affected by the noise) QRSs signals from ON4ZK ('O'); DJ5BV ('M'). Sked with DK8KW using QRSs. He saw me very weakly but noise stopped me receiving him. Spent the afternoon modifiying antenna to raise height of far end from 9m to 14m. Sunday 20 June Local noise still on. Heard G3BDQ (589); G3YXM (599). Saw on Spectrogram ON4ZK ('O'). Worked MM0ALM (gave him 359QRM, got 339). Very difficult QSO but my best DX using conventional CW at 596km. He had not preiously replied to my calls so think my antenna works better. Another sked with DK8KW but noise prevented reception again. He saw my signals again and a few dB stronger than yesterday - more evidence that the antenna is better. See Geri's web site (via mine) for the screen shots. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19078 invoked from network); 21 Jun 1999 14:46:50 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Jun 1999 14:46:50 +0100 Received: (qmail 15452 invoked from network); 21 Jun 1999 13:46:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jun 1999 13:46:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10w4C8-0005CY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:33:04 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10w4C7-0005CT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:33:03 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10w4B8-0005nG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:32:07 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:25:48 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:27:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Antennas X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: I have done very many antenna experiments over the past 2-3 years to get a better signal at 73 and 136kHz from a small garden. I have experimented with inverted-L Marconis. These have mainly sloped down from the top of the vertical section and I have on two occasions increased the height of the far end with improved results. It seems that at LF you cannot get away with drooping the far end of an inverted-L like you can at HF. This is presumably because the current distribution is approximately linear for a short Marconi and sinusoidal for something a quarter-wave or more. One a similar topic, what influences the capacitance of a multi-wire top section? Is it simply wire diameter so a thick wire has more capacitance than a thin wire? What about multiple parallel wires - these are often suggested to be a metre or so apart - why? If the distance makes a difference, do I assume that the further apart they are the better the effect, and if so why is this? I used to run three top wires about 300mm apart but replaced these with a single wire of the same diameter of each of the three (for other reasons) and it seemed to make little difference. Was I doing something wrong? Also, if I run three top wires in parallel, should I join them at the far end? Or perhaps I could join them so they make a single zig-zag wire down the garden, back again and down again. The antenna is getting better all the time, but I am sure there's more progress to be made. Does anyone have some practical experience to pass on? Mike Dennison, G3XDV Publications Manager * RadCom * Ham Radio Today * RSGB Books * * GB2RS News * RSGB On-Line Web Site * Radio Society of Great Britain Lambda House, Cranborne Road Potters Bar, Herts UK, EN6 3JE E-mail: publications@rsgb.org.uk Tel: +44 (0) 1707 659015; Fax: +44 (0) 1707 645105 RSGB - UK AMATEUR RADIO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23501 invoked from network); 21 Jun 1999 15:03:34 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Jun 1999 15:03:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 29058 invoked from network); 21 Jun 1999 14:03:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jun 1999 14:03:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10w4SM-0005GY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:49:50 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10w4SL-0005GT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:49:49 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10w4RO-0007Hw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:48:52 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:32:04 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:33:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Spectrogram 5 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: I downloaded Spectrogram 5 yesterday and have done a few experiments with it. It seems that the best improvement is the custom colours on the display. This is not just the look of the thing - it is what colour or shade relates to what signal level. The simplest improvement is to modify the existing linear colour scale and replace it with something more logarithmic. The reason is that we are much more interested in differentiating between noise and a signal a few dB apart, than we are in telling the difference between a strong signal and a very strong one. My web site shows my first go at making this improvement. As with most improvements, it cannot produce a signal that was undetectable before but it does make very weak signals stand out more clearly. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11787 invoked from network); 21 Jun 1999 16:13:37 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Jun 1999 16:13:37 +0100 Received: (qmail 25394 invoked from network); 21 Jun 1999 15:13:29 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jun 1999 15:13:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10w5X7-0005Zz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 15:58:49 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from relay1.mail.uk.psi.net ([154.32.105.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10w5X6-0005Zu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 15:58:48 +0100 Received: from mail.itexgsy.com ([195.153.167.5] helo=itxint02.itexjsy.com) by relay1.mail.uk.psi.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 10w5Wr-00076v-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 15:58:33 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by ITXINT02 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 15:57:54 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Phil Daniells" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Antennas Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 15:57:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Dennison [SMTP:mike.dennison@rsgb.org.uk] > Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 2:27 PM > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Antennas > > I have done very many antenna experiments over the past 2-3 > years to get a better signal at 73 and 136kHz from a small garden. > > I have experimented with inverted-L Marconis. These have mainly > sloped down from the top of the vertical section and I have on two > occasions increased the height of the far end with improved results. > It seems that at LF you cannot get away with drooping the far end > of an inverted-L like you can at HF. This is presumably because > the current distribution is approximately linear for a short Marconi > and sinusoidal for something a quarter-wave or more. > [CBQ>] You don't get away with it on HF either. My experience on 160 is that inverted-Ls invariably work better with horizontal tops rather than sloping ones, possibly losses associated with the high voltage end of the aerial are lower and the radiation resistance is higher. There was a QST article dealing with this some while back (I'm sorry but I don't recall the issue). The conclusion was that sloping the far end below ~50% of the height of the vertical section was counterproductive. > Also, if I run three top wires in parallel, should I join them at > the far end? [CBQ>] I recall another QST article (but not the date of issue) that dealt with broad-banding an 80 metre dipole using a multi-wire top. The advice was not to connect the parallel wires together at the far end, though I can't remember why. Cheers, Phil, GJ4CBQ. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8653 invoked from network); 21 Jun 1999 19:52:27 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Jun 1999 19:52:27 +0100 Received: (qmail 21377 invoked from network); 21 Jun 1999 18:52:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Jun 1999 18:52:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10w8hq-0006VB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 19:22:06 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mailout00.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.148]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10w8ho-0006V6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 19:22:04 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fwd05.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.165]) by mailout00.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 10w8hN-0005oA-00; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:21:37 +0200 Received: (320057114934-0001(btxid)@[62.157.27.70]) by fwd05.btx.dtag.de id ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:21:20 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:21:20 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: DK7UY@geocities.com Subject: LF: RX loops X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 320057114934-0001@t-online.de From: "DF2PY" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello Lowfers ! After i nearly completed my tx-antenna,it looks like i have to shoot for a good rx antenna.Dave- G3YXM heard me last weekend and i could not hear him ! He sure has a bigger signal than i do and that asks for direct action on my side.Something must have changed not to my favour as i worked Dave before. My location is about 45 miles NW of the DLF transmitter with about half a Megawatt pwr on 153 kc.And there are 2 Transmitters about 30 miles east with 50KW on around 128 kc and there is another 150kW station about 150 km to the NE from here on 138.8 kc.All of this gives me a hell of a noise and even the crystal filter in front of the rx is driven into IM problems.At one of my next mails i will include a graphic of the RF-spectrum on my end on LF. I guess i need something directional like a loop- resonant or not. question is now has anyone gathered experience with that ? Single turn loop or multiturn loop ? What surface ? etc. etc. If anyone can help with that it would be greatly appreciated !!!Maybe putting that rx-ant-info on the reflector here is beneficial to all of us. hope to see(hear) u soon Lowfers ! 73 de wolf From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26685 invoked from network); 22 Jun 1999 09:53:15 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Jun 1999 09:53:15 +0100 Received: (qmail 29255 invoked from network); 22 Jun 1999 08:53:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jun 1999 08:53:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wLv8-0001aN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:28:42 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.31] (helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wLv7-0001aI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:28:41 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.151.209]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA4682 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:28:28 +0200 Message-ID: <005e01bebc89$a8b18420$d197b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Antennas Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:30:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: G3XDV de PA0SE Mike, You wrote: One a similar topic, what influences the capacitance of a multi-wire top section? Is it simply wire diameter so a thick wire has more capacitance than a thin wire? What about multiple parallel wires - these are often suggested to be a metre or so apart - why? If the distance makes a difference, do I assume that the further apart they are the better the effect, and if so why is this? Also, if I run three top wires in parallel, should I join them at the far end? Or perhaps I could join them so they make a single zig-zag wire down the garden, back again and down again. The antenna is getting better all the time, but I am sure there's more progress to be made. Does anyone have some practical experience to pass on? My reply is: I cannot provide practical experience. Computer programmes for antenna simulation are no help either as dimensions of the aerial are are too small, expressed in wavelength. But I found some useful information in a 1925 book called ELECTRICAL ENGINEERS DATA BOOK, VOLUME THREE, RADIO ENGINEERING. It has a chapter on "Capacity of Aerials" and I think it answers most, if not all, of your questions. I have made a photocopy of the chapter and will put it into the mail today. It goes to your address at RSGB as I am not sure of your home postal address. An attempt to look at your homepage failed; system overloaded? 73, Dick, PA0SE JO22GD D.W. Rollema V.d. Marckstraat 5 2352 RA Leiderdorp The Netherlands Tel. +31 71 589 27 34 E-mail: d.w.rollema@gironet.nl or pa0se@amsat.org From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15109 invoked from network); 22 Jun 1999 13:10:13 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Jun 1999 13:10:13 +0100 Received: (qmail 8746 invoked from network); 22 Jun 1999 12:09:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jun 1999 12:09:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wPCy-0002bj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:59:20 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hil-img-8.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.138]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wPCw-0002be-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:59:19 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hil-img-8.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.19) id HAA13480 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:59:17 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:59:02 -0400 From: "Holger 'Geri', DK8KW" Subject: LF: Noise-Log To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199906220759_MC2-7A4D-4DA6@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello Lowfers, after a couple of Slow-CW skeds failed in the afternoon or evening, I have logged the background noise level at my QTH throughout a 24-hour period (for details either see http://www.dk8kw.home.pages.de, follow the link "Chart of the background noise" or got directly to http://home.t-online.de/home/dk8kw/noise.htm). The interesting result is, that early at 04.00 UTC (!) is the best time for a sked. Until 10.00 UTC the noise level raised slightly. After 10.00 UTC until 04.00 UTC it is nearly constantly high, so that only strong signals can be detected. I do not know exactly where the noise comes from nor did I yet try to eliminate it by using a directional antenna. However, the sudden fall in background noise just before 04.00 UTC makes it very evident, that it is some kind of men-made nosise. So, again like in real life: the early-bird catches the fly! Cu early in the morning, best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15652 invoked from network); 22 Jun 1999 17:14:18 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Jun 1999 17:14:18 +0100 Received: (qmail 26516 invoked from network); 22 Jun 1999 16:14:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Jun 1999 16:14:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wSyg-0004jX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:00:50 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mailout06.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.154]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wSyd-0004jS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:00:47 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fwd14.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.174]) by mailout06.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 10wSyY-0003AA-00; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:00:42 +0200 Received: (087321565-0001(btxid)@[193.158.171.158]) by fwd14.btx.dtag.de id ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:00:33 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:00:33 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: Antennas X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-online.de From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Dear Mike, having experimented with LF aerials since summer 1997, when the first two special LF licences have been issued for Germany, I would sum up my findings as follows: The diameter of the wire I do not regard important so far. It should be chosen to cope with the mechanical drag. I am using normal litz wire for mains wiring so far, wire diameter about 1 millimeter, total with insulation 2,5 mm (there are even knotted and soldered connections in my present aerial). On my estate I have space to erect a T aerial with a total top length of 25 meters, and a downlead of 10 meters. This total 35 meters of wire gave a capacitance of about 210 pF against ground. Therefore I always count with 6 pF per meter wire. To measure the capacitance I have used a tuned resonant circuit, the variable capacitance of which has been measured with and without the aerial connected. A simple RF ground or some wires on the ground must be provided to make these measurements reliable. To get higher capacity I have built a double T aerial with the same dimensions, using three bamboo spacers of 1 meter length. The centres of both Ts were connected by a wire 1 meter long, and the ends of the top were also connected by 1 meter of wire. Each T centre had its own downlead, thus forming a V-shaped downlead. With a total of 73 meters of wire, capacity was 340 pF or 4,66 pF/m. This showed that even with 1 meter spacing of the tops the capacity ratio reduced considerably. The traction on the two ropes which carried this aerial was considerable, including the weight of three bamboo spacers. Therefore I tried to simplify the construction. As seen from above the aerial now resembles the letter H, with the ends on one side being spaced more than in the centre, therefore resembling something between letter H and X (or the form of the "Orion" star configuration). The ends of the tops were not connected any more (also for mechanical reasons) and the spacing wire between both tops (forming the centre of the H) had been increased to 1,5 meters. On one end the spacing of the top ends is also 1,5 meters, on the other end the top ends are spaced perhaps two meters. The V-shaped downlead has been retained. With a total of 70 meters of wire the capacity now is 370 pF, giving a ratio of 5,2pF/meter. This is the optimum which I can realize at present in the given environment. These experiments show that wide spacing of the top wires is desirable, especially at the ends, to retain the ratio of 6 pF/meter of the single wire T aerial as far as possible. The feasibility to do so depends of the realization of suitable rope holders, of course. On my estate on one end I have several high trees, the other two ropes are hold by an unused television Band III long yagi forming the highest point on the roof. Springs have been inserted into the ropes carried by the trees to decouple the aerial from excessive traction in heavy winds. Concerning the connection of the ends of the top wires I would still employ such a connection if it were mechanically feasible. But this is not the case under my present conditions. One detail which I still will change is the V-shaped downlead. Near the ground the capacity of the aerial to ground should be held at a minimum. Even the EZNEC programme which DL9KCE tried to simulate my aerial has run wild as long as these conditions have not been expressed clearly to the programme. Therefore I have the idea to change the V-shape into a Y-shape soon. This may slightly reduce total capacity but it should be possible to tune out the difference by the aerial variometer. I have no experience with inverted L aerials so far. Sloping down the far end of an inverted L too much may convert the aerial into a lossy loop, including the ground. In order to know more about the efficiency of my aerial I have also measured the resistive impedance under tuning conditions using a home-brew resistive bridge and a 3 watts PA. At present my ground loss is about 80 ohms, and I do hope that summer will be sufficiently mild to allow more experiments on the ground system. I hope these explanations will give You some ideas to try out on your own aerial. 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB QTH JN68GN, 120 km ENE of Munich. Mike Dennison schrieb: > I have done very many antenna experiments over the past 2-3 > years to get a better signal at 73 and 136kHz from a small garden. > > I have experimented with inverted-L Marconis. These have mainly > sloped down from the top of the vertical section and I have on two > occasions increased the height of the far end with improved results. > It seems that at LF you cannot get away with drooping the far end > of an inverted-L like you can at HF. This is presumably because > the current distribution is approximately linear for a short Marconi > and sinusoidal for something a quarter-wave or more. > > One a similar topic, what influences the capacitance of a multi-wire > top section? Is it simply wire diameter so a thick wire has more > capacitance than a thin wire? What about multiple parallel wires - > these are often suggested to be a metre or so apart - why? If the > distance makes a difference, do I assume that the further apart > they are the better the effect, and if so why is this? > > I used to run three top wires about 300mm apart but replaced these > with a single wire of the same diameter of each of the three (for > other reasons) and it seemed to make little difference. Was I doing > something wrong? > > Also, if I run three top wires in parallel, should I join them at the far > end? Or perhaps I could join them so they make a single zig-zag > wire down the garden, back again and down again. > > The antenna is getting better all the time, but I am sure there's > more progress to be made. Does anyone have some practical > experience to pass on? > > > > > Mike Dennison, G3XDV > Publications Manager > > * RadCom * Ham Radio Today * RSGB Books * > * GB2RS News * RSGB On-Line Web Site * > > Radio Society of Great Britain > Lambda House, Cranborne Road > Potters Bar, Herts UK, EN6 3JE > E-mail: publications@rsgb.org.uk > Tel: +44 (0) 1707 659015; Fax: +44 (0) 1707 645105 > > RSGB - UK AMATEUR RADIO > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10658 invoked from network); 23 Jun 1999 15:31:34 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Jun 1999 15:31:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 10221 invoked from network); 23 Jun 1999 14:31:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jun 1999 14:31:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wnfv-0001Tc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:06:51 +0100 Received: from smtp.mail.big-orange.net ([143.179.236.32] helo=Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wnfs-0001TX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:06:49 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.150.49]) by Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA98 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:06:44 +0200 Message-ID: <000901bebd82$16b34c80$3196b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "RSGB LF Group" Subject: LF: PA0LQ QRT Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:09:13 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All
 
Harry, PA0LQ, has asked me to put the following message on the reflector on behalf of him:
 
The manager of the apartment building I live in has just ordered me to stop my antenna experiments. Some of the inhabitants, apparently suffering from the radiation hazard syndrome, had complained.  They have seen my activities and despite my assurance that the antenna is removed after every weekend, I have to stop.
This means for me the end of my activity on LF. I regret it very much as it became more and more enjoyable with the improvements of the antenna.
 
It is a great pity that the most active station on LF in The Netherlands should be forced off the air in this way.
Personally I will miss Harry on the band very much as we had a very good co-operation, also in a technical sense; measuring each others signal after a modification etc.
 
Ironic is that on the roof of that very same building one finds base stations of two different mobile telephone systems (KPN and Libertel). The antennas of these stations have been radiating 24 hours per day for years already whilst Harry's actual transmitting time amounts to perhaps one hour or less per weekend! 
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
JO22GD
D.W. Rollema
V.d. Marckstraat 5
2352 RA Leiderdorp
The Netherlands
Tel. +31 71 589 27 34
or
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16622 invoked from network); 23 Jun 1999 15:53:34 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Jun 1999 15:53:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 7215 invoked from network); 23 Jun 1999 14:53:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jun 1999 14:53:24 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wo4s-0001im-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:32:38 +0100 Received: from gatea.bbc.co.uk ([132.185.132.10] helo=bbcgate.bbc.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wo4q-0001ih-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:32:37 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from sunf0.rd.bbc.co.uk (ddmailgate.rd.bbc.co.uk [132.185.128.104]) by bbcgate.bbc.co.uk (8.8.5/8.7.2) with SMTP id PAA00699; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:32:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from pc523 ([172.28.38.1]) by sunf0.rd.bbc.co.uk; Wed, 23 Jun 99 15:32:25 BST Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990623153056.009e8b90@sunf0> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: simonlh@sunf0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:30:56 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Simon Lloyd-Hughes" Subject: Re: LF: Noise from phone lines Cc: rpagejones@iee.org In-reply-to: <199906150746.IAA06433@fm215.facility.pipex.com> References: <376a7740.4923697@smtp.dial.pipex.com><000a01beb66f$e86598b0$ab97d28f@kate.geog.le.ac.uk><000a01beb66f$e86598b0$ab97d28f@kate.geog.le.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Did you mention this to the EMC Commmittee? Although we are aware of many technologies that can cause problems if we do not know of specific ones we can not help. In many cases the developers of these technology are unaware of potential problems. These problems are brought to their attention and action taken where possible. You may have read in some of the Computer magazines people having problems with second telephone lines for internet use. They have discovered in many cases an an 'electronic splitter block' (I think its called a DEX unit) is being used instead of another telephone line. Because they are not being told that these units are in use and the data rate is much less than advertised users are requesting them to be removed and a seperate line installed. This has only happenned because users have complained both to the companies and to the computer magazines. 8:50 15/06/99 +0100, you wrote: >G4WHO wrote : > >>BT also have a wonderful little pair of boxes which duplexes two BT lines >onto >>one physical pair of cables. If someone near you has had one fitted >depending on >>the technology used this could increase the noise on the phone lines. > >Last year I started hearing approximately one-second ticks with a double >tick on the minute on all radio frequencies up to 5 MHz, including 136. I >thought at first MSF was running amok but it was coming from overhead phone >lines running alongside my property and was somehow linked with a nearby >cellphone installation. I moaned to BT who said they could do nothing about >it - "everything was within spec" and it was somehow my fault for living >too close by. What with this sort of thing and the broadband noise now >covering 160m over large areas of the country for hours on end I'm >beginning to think my amateur radio days are over! >Walter G3JKV > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8233 invoked from network); 23 Jun 1999 19:32:29 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Jun 1999 19:32:29 +0100 Received: (qmail 8473 invoked from network); 23 Jun 1999 18:32:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jun 1999 18:32:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wrYy-00040p-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 19:15:56 +0100 Received: from smtp.mail.big-orange.net ([143.179.236.32] helo=Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wrYx-00040k-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 19:15:55 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.151.182]) by Lesothosaurus.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA6F73 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:15:51 +0200 Message-ID: <006201bebda4$e4302800$b697b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: Fw: LF: Re: Antennas Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:18:26 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Dick Rollema Aan: M. Bruno Datum: woensdag 23 juni 1999 12:16 Onderwerp: Re: LF: Re: Antennas >IK1ODO de PA0SE > >Dear Marco, you wrote: > > >>I understand that your TX (if not you!) will go to Friedrichshafen. May you >>send a copy of the chapter to Friedrichshafen? I am very interested, even >>if my three-wire top hat seems to work well. >> >>I may collect the envelope at the VERON stand if you mark the envelope >>'for IK1ODO'. Or, if you come there, please call me on the mobile phone >>(0039 348 22 61 420). >> >>I will be in Friedrichshafen from Wednesday evening thru Friday. >> >>Thanks in advance, and if it will not be possible, don't worry ! >> > > >My reply is: > >No, I will not be at Friedrichshafen myself; only my LF TX and an active >ferrite loopstick antenna I have tried but at my QTH is not better for >reception than my transmission antenna. > >Mail to the VERON booth will not make it in time I'm afraid. > >But if you send me a SAE plus 2 IRC's I will happy to send you - or anyone >else for that matter - a photocopy of the chapter on "Capacity of Aerials" >from the 1925 book. >Please choose an envelope big enough four 10 A4 sheets. > >73, Dick, PA0SE >JO22GD >D.W. Rollema >V.d. Marckstraat 5 >2352 RA Leiderdorp >The Netherlands >Tel. +31 71 589 27 34 >E-mail: d.w.rollema@gironet.nl >or >pa0se@amsat.org > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9215 invoked from network); 23 Jun 1999 19:37:52 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Jun 1999 19:37:52 +0100 Received: (qmail 1176 invoked from network); 23 Jun 1999 18:37:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jun 1999 18:37:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wrko-0004Do-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 19:28:10 +0100 Received: from merlins.force9.net ([195.166.128.23]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wrkn-0004Dj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 19:28:09 +0100 Received: (qmail 8798 invoked from network); 23 Jun 1999 18:33:11 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by merlins.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Jun 1999 18:33:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 3825 invoked from network); 23 Jun 1999 18:35:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO prstesv1) (212.56.110.109) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jun 1999 18:35:12 -0000 Message-ID: <002301bebda6$87f73ae0$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: PA0LQ QRT Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 19:30:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
A very sad development...
 
Please pass on my best wishes to Harry, I shall miss our regular QSOs.
There really is no way to argue intelligently with people when they have convinced themselves that something is true. I have worked with people who have spent their whole working life at transmitting stations where the Volts/metre is so high that I could walk down the sender hall with an illumunated flourescent tube in my hand! They seem OK, most of them going on to long and healthy retirements.
I expect will will meet more of this kind of concern about the "radiation" ( imotive word ) that we produce. I think the best argument is one of "dosage" as in Noise at Work regulations where a small dose of a very high level is as damaging as a long exposure to a lower level. Therefore a short exposure to the short transmissions we make must, by any logical process of thought, be insignificant in comparison with that received by someone living near to a continuously radiating broadcast station.
 
73, Dave G3YXM.
 
The manager of the apartment building I live in has just ordered me to stop my antenna experiments. Some of the inhabitants, apparently suffering from the radiation hazard syndrome, had complained.  They have seen my activities and despite my assurance that the antenna is removed after every weekend, I have to stop.
This means for me the end of my activity on LF. I regret it very much as it became more and more enjoyable with the improvements of the antenna.
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10598 invoked from network); 23 Jun 1999 22:12:59 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Jun 1999 22:12:59 +0100 Received: (qmail 19730 invoked from network); 23 Jun 1999 21:12:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jun 1999 21:12:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wuA2-0005rN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:02:22 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from dh-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.131] helo=hpdmgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wuA1-0005oQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:02:21 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.5) id RAA22154 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:01:49 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:00:57 -0400 From: "Prof R. Jennison" Subject: LF: RX loops To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199906231701_MC2-7A7F-E9F5@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Go for the biggest loop with the highest Q that you can get 73. Roger G2AJV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17256 invoked from network); 23 Jun 1999 22:47:25 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Jun 1999 22:47:25 +0100 Received: (qmail 23775 invoked from network); 23 Jun 1999 21:47:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jun 1999 21:47:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wuV6-000638-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:24:08 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from arl-img-9.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.139]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wuV5-000633-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:24:07 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by arl-img-9.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.19) id RAA21547 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:24:02 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:23:54 -0400 From: "Prof R. Jennison" Subject: LF: Re: Antennas To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199906231724_MC2-7A7C-8D3E@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: The spacing between the wires on the horizontal top section is simply dictated by the fractional wavelength and the degree of efficiency required versus the mechanical and economical constraints of having a very close spacing and more wires to give the same total width. Think of it in terms of a part of a Faraday cage. If the spacing is small relative to the elevation then it's fine. Shorting the far ends should not make much difference. 73, Roger, G2AJV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6734 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 00:27:02 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 00:27:02 +0100 Received: (qmail 2363 invoked from network); 23 Jun 1999 23:26:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Jun 1999 23:26:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wwGj-0007T2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:17:25 +0100 Received: from kang.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.28]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wwGg-0007Sx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:17:22 +0100 Received: from p141.lifford1.tinet.ie ([159.134.235.141] helo=beachwood.tinet.ie) by kang.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 10wwGa-0000XB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:17:17 +0100 Message-ID: <002201bebdce$eb96e500$8deb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> From: "Finbar O'Connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: PA0LQ QRT Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:19:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Dear Harry,
                  I am very sorry to hear that you have had to close down on LF. Perhaps some day soon you can return to the airwaves again on LF  from another qth. Thank you for giving me the opportunity of working you from Malin Head, your signal was very good, considering what you were using, I remember the qsb on your signal caused by the antenna  moving in the wind, suspended from the top floor of your high rise qth.
All the best and I really do hope you can somehow get back on soon again
very best 73's 
Finbar   EI0CF   Malin Head , County Donegal, Ireland.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dick Rollema <d.w.rollema@gironet.nl>
To: RSGB LF Group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Date: 23 June 1999 15:57
Subject: LF: PA0LQ QRT

To All
 
Harry, PA0LQ, has asked me to put the following message on the reflector on behalf of him:
 
The manager of the apartment building I live in has just ordered me to stop my antenna experiments. Some of the inhabitants, apparently suffering from the radiation hazard syndrome, had complained.  They have seen my activities and despite my assurance that the antenna is removed after every weekend, I have to stop.
This means for me the end of my activity on LF. I regret it very much as it became more and more enjoyable with the improvements of the antenna.
 
It is a great pity that the most active station on LF in The Netherlands should be forced off the air in this way.
Personally I will miss Harry on the band very much as we had a very good co-operation, also in a technical sense; measuring each others signal after a modification etc.
 
Ironic is that on the roof of that very same building one finds base stations of two different mobile telephone systems (KPN and Libertel). The antennas of these stations have been radiating 24 hours per day for years already whilst Harry's actual transmitting time amounts to perhaps one hour or less per weekend! 
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
JO22GD
D.W. Rollema
V.d. Marckstraat 5
2352 RA Leiderdorp
The Netherlands
Tel. +31 71 589 27 34
or
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20436 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 02:01:54 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 02:01:54 +0100 Received: (qmail 11550 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 01:01:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 01:01:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wxgr-0008NT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 01:48:29 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.157]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10wxgq-0008NO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 01:48:28 +0100 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-126-233.bellatlantic.net [151.200.126.233]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA15017; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:51:58 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37717FBD.FC2CF4DD@bellatlantic.net> Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:45:49 -0400 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: coiling winding problem References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Soegiono, Gamal wrote: > How do I form a low loss coil for 137 kHz > using mentioned 2mm annealed copper wire? Hi, Gamal, Do you have access to teh ARRL Antenna Handbook, 18th edition (1998), page 5-6 to 5-8? If not, e-mail me your postal address. 73 Andre' N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4142 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 08:25:02 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 08:25:02 +0100 Received: (qmail 11074 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 07:24:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 07:24:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10x3gw-0003cA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:12:58 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10x3gv-0003c5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:12:57 +0100 Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id DAA12158; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 03:18:01 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA28803; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 03:11:50 -0400 Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by umrsvr.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA00061; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 03:09:13 -0400 Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:08:40 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Soegiono, Gamal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: coil wind prob, evolution-1 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:08:38 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello all recently I asked some coil winding questions. Now I am able to answer them to some extend by myself: GS> (1) How do I form a low loss coil for 137 kHz GS> using mentioned 2mm annealed copper wire? One solution would be to use single layer solenoid instead of multiple layered ones. This however is not feasible with 2mm annealed copper wire as the length dimension gets too large, especially if (3) is taken into account. GS> (2) Shall I use other form factor? >From LOFERS scratch book I draw some information about coil winding scheemes. The "doughnut shape winding" is regarded to as to provide relative large inductivity for the volume. This is a multi-layered solenoid with short length but high flanges. Actually the original antenna winding was designed in this way ! Using my 2mm wire would end in tremendeous height of the flanges, the coil would more look like a disk rather than a doughnut. The "honeycomb winding" scheeme is good for relative low inductivity (as would be required for HF rather than LF), low loss and low winding capacity. The turns of the wire are not aligned side by side as with usual solenoids instead, running from left to right while doing one turn. This provides for much space in between adjacent wires and adjacent layers. Again the resultant dimensions and volume would be tremendeous with my wire and required inductivity. Former winding scheeme can be modified for larger length and moderate height. This would be a transition in between "honeycomb winding" and "Basket weave winding", which has large inner diameter for the bobin, small height (flange, actually a single layer structure) and moderate bobin length. Again relative low losses are combined with low winding capacity. GS> (3) Shall I use greater distance between wires? This appears to be the key to solve my problem. When I made the alternative antenna coil winding, I was aware of the skin effect. The original wire size (0.335 mm) was already the maximum diameter for avoiding skin effect (skin depth for copper at 137kHz is about 0.18 mm). When 0.335 mm diameter wire has a circumference of roughly 1 mm, the 2 mm diameter wire has one of 6.3 mm. This would result in a 1:6 benefit regarding skin effect losses - for a single wire!! What I did not take account for is the proximity effect. The original wire had a silk spun coating over the copper strands (or even litz?), my 2 mm (solid) wire only the lacquer coating. Winding my 2 mm wire side by side results in (relative) closer proximitty between wires as compared with the original 0.335 mm wire. As an intermediate conclusion I should find the optimum by keeping at least one wire diameter spacing in between turns as well as from layer to layer. Something in between honeycomb winding and basket weave winding with doughnut winding form factor using a moderate large wire diameter (less than 2 mm :-) could probably bring me closer to the wanted low-loss coil. Further ideas are welcome. Best 73 Gamal Soegiono (SWL) 50N01 / 08E27 / JO 40 fa soegiono@nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed Return-Path: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 13879 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 09:20:57 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 09:20:57 +0100 Received: (qmail 16094 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 08:20:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 08:20:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10x4Sn-0004Ci-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:02:25 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ns.cro.cz ([193.179.196.2] ident=qmailr) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10x4Sm-0004Cd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:02:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 7746 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 08:02:21 -0000 Received: from fw.cro.cz (HELO ns-int.cro.cz) (193.179.197.2) by ns.cro.cz with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 08:02:21 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from radiohk.hk.cro.cz (ns.hk.cro.cz [172.27.1.2]) by ns-int.cro.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09415 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:02:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc033hk.hk.cro.cz ([172.27.1.33]) by radiohk.hk.cro.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA00049 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:01:59 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by pc033hk.hk.cro.cz with Microsoft Mail id <01BEBE28.982E6820@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz>; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:01:57 +-200 Message-ID: <01BEBE28.982E6820@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> From: "Petr Maly" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: coil wind prob, evolution-1 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:01:56 +-200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi all. I wonder how the LF coil should look like because I experienced following problem. I made "loading coil" on diameter 80mm, length of coil about 100mm. Turn by turn with litz wire. This litz has got outer diameter about 1.2mm. There are about 7 layers or so. There are two coils in series, one tapped and the second similar as a vario. When I tune to DCF39 on 139 kHz I experince two maxima! No matter whether I tune switching taps or rotating with inner coil of the vario. The maxima are not far from each other and they are of about the same heigth. I suspect that the coils have a very high capacity themselves so ones I tune antenna capacity and the other time capacity of the coil. I wonder how the loading coil will behave with TX. If this is true there should be only one maximum measuring antenna current. Anyway I take this as a proof that coils doesn't do their job properly. Does anybody have a different explanation? 73 Petr, OK1FIG ---------- Od: Soegiono, Gamal[SMTP:soegiono@nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com] Odesláno: 24. cervna 1999 10:08 Komu: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Predmet: LF: coil wind prob, evolution-1 Hello all recently I asked some coil winding questions. Now I am able to answer them to some extend by myself: ... From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24651 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 12:17:27 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 12:17:27 +0100 Received: (qmail 11977 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 11:17:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 11:17:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10x7He-00065G-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:03:06 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10x7Hd-000622-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:03:05 +0100 Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id HAA11575; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 07:08:14 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA28033; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 07:02:03 -0400 Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by isd508.hsd.utc.com; (8.9.3/) id GAA02156; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 06:59:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:58:59 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Soegiono, Gamal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Petr's loding coils Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:58:56 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Petr, OH1FIG, Petr> I made "loading coil" on diameter 80mm, length of coil about 100mm. Petr> Turn by turn with litz wire. This litz has got outer diameter about Petr> 1.2mm. There are about 7 layers or so. Petr> There are two coils in series, one tapped and the second similar Petr> as a vario. This is probably the main cause for the phenomenon you experienced. By putting two inductors in series, where the inductors have significant coil capacity, you build up two coupled bandpass filters. Petr> When I tune to DCF39 on 139 kHz I experince two maxima! This is exactly what the following arrangement would do: use monospaced font to view in---+---+ +---+ | | | | C1 L1 <-M-> L2 C2 | | | | out--+---+ +---+ L1, L2 and M are figurative inductors which describe the actual circuit electrically. Petr> No matter whether I tune switching taps or rotating with inner coil Petr> of the vario. The maxima should then change in frequency slightly. Petr> I suspect that the coils have a very high capacity themselves Petr> so ones I tune antenna capacity and the other time capacity of Petr> the coil. Yes obviously. To prevent 2 maxima in the operating frequency range, you should minimize the coil's capacity. You cannot prevent the coil capacity, hence always will have a dual maximum behaviour from the coupled resonating circuits. But you could minimize the coil's capacity and force the dual maximum behaviour from the coupled resonating circuits to occur OUTSIDE our operating frequency range. Petr> I wonder how the loading coil will Petr> behave with TX. Should the operating frequency happen to be within the two maxima, variations of antenna's capacity (wind) and parameters of the circuit (resistance rises due to heating under operation) could result in significant phase variations and/or loading conditions for the amplifier (most amps would not like such working conditions). Petr> If this is true there should be only one maximum Petr> measuring antenna current. Yes. By minimizing the coil's capacity the unwanted (but unavoidable) dual maximum effect could be forced to occur (far enough) outside the working frequency range. Petr> Anyway I take this as a proof that coils Petr> doesn't do their job properly. The coils do their job properly, the resultant circuit however does not behave as expected / required. Best 73 Gamal Soegiono (SWL) 50N01 / 08E27 / JO 40 fa soegiono@nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2899 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 15:18:36 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 15:18:36 +0100 Received: (qmail 3609 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 14:18:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 14:18:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xABG-00084x-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:08:42 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xABD-00084s-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:08:39 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10xABQ-0006ZF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:08:52 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:51:30 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:53:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: ERP Calculations X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Thanks to all who have given me advice on inverted-L top sections, and to Dick, PA0SE, who pointed me in the direction of the Admiralty Handbook (Dick, if you have not yet sent the copy, do not bother as I have found one here). Whilst browsing the fascinating information, I came across a really easy way of calculating ERP - at least I thought I had. The book gives: Radiation resistance = 160 x pi squared x antenna height squared, all divided by wavelength squared (height and wavelength in same units). By multiplying this by the square of your antenna current you have the ERP - simple. BUT The Admiralty Handbook - and many derivatives - uses the factor 160 at the start of the formula. Many other books (and we have a very large collection in the RSGB Library) including the definitive Terman, give 60 instead. Now this is almost three times less!!! Which is right - or have I missed something vital? Actually it is not quite as simple as stated above because the formula assumes a very large capacity hat and therefore uniform current in the vertical section. In a practical antenna, you will have to work out what percentage of the total current is in the vertical, assuming linear current distribution. For instance, if the vertical and horizontal components are the same length, the current decays to 50% at the top of the vertical, so the average current in the vertical is half way between 50% and 100% (ie 75%) of that at the feedpoint. So I can definitely say that my ERP is either 18mW or 48mW depending on which formula you believe. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8278 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 15:44:39 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 15:44:39 +0100 Received: (qmail 26120 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 14:44:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 14:44:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xAXA-0008K8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:31:20 +0100 Received: from smtp.mail.big-orange.net ([143.179.236.31] helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xAX9-0008Jf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:31:19 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.150.220]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA6D9F for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:31:11 +0200 Message-ID: <001b01bebe4e$ad48aba0$dc96b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: RE: coil wind prob, evolution-1 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:33:48 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Petr, You wrote: There are about 7 layers. This is wrong. Loading coils should be wound in a single layer to keep the capacitance of the coil small. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8898 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 15:47:48 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 15:47:48 +0100 Received: (qmail 7677 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 14:47:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 14:47:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xAMp-0008Dh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:20:39 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xAMn-0008Dc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:20:37 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10xAN4-0007BG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:20:55 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:17:48 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:19:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: More on Rr X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Further to my note on Radiation Resistance formulas, the highly respected 160m expert ON4UN uses 1450 instead of "160 (or 60) multiplied by pi squared" in his excellent book Low Band DXing. This figure is lower than 160 x pi sq (1580) but nowhere near as low as 60 x pi sq (592). I assume that he must have done some practical measurements which gave him a better figure than that calculated in the 1920s. My first reaction is that (shock, horror) Terman and many others are wrong and the Admiralty was almost right. And my ERP is definitely (probably, perhaps) 44mW. Mike From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26760 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 17:04:49 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 17:04:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 3035 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 16:04:44 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 16:04:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xBms-0000iQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:51:38 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xBmp-0000iL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:51:36 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA14068 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:57:00 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990624180651.2f0fc7fc@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:06:51 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: ERP Calculations In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: At 14:53 24/06/99 +0100, you wrote: >Whilst browsing the fascinating information, I came across a really >easy way of calculating ERP - at least I thought I had. > >The book gives: > >Radiation resistance = 160 x pi squared x antenna height squared, >all divided by wavelength squared (height and wavelength in same >units). > >By multiplying this by the square of your antenna current you have >the ERP - simple. > >BUT > >The Admiralty Handbook - and many derivatives - uses the factor >160 at the start of the formula. Many other books (and we have a >very large collection in the RSGB Library) including the definitive >Terman, give 60 instead. Now this is almost three times less!!! > >Which is right - or have I missed something vital? Pure mathematical the radiation resistance of a short (in wavelength) vertical monopole above a perfect ground is : Ra = 40 . Pi^2 . l^2 / L^2 where Pi = 3.1415... , l = antenna-length , L = wavelength and ^2 means squared. simplified for 136.75kHz this means that Ra (milli-Ohm) = 0.082 x l(meter) The same vertical with a infinite top-capacitance has a radiation resistance of Ra = 160 . Pi^2 . l^2 / L^2 so 4 times the radiation resistance of the same vertical without tophat and with the same antennacurrent it will have a 6dB higher ERP. Any 'real-world' vertical with tophead wil have a radiation resistance somewhere inbetween. An easy approach to understand this increase of radiation resistance due to the tophat is to look at the current distribution over the antenna : - For a 'pure' vertical the current at the feedingpoint is maximum and lineary decreases to 0 at the top, so the average current is 0.5 times the feeding-current. - For a infinite tophat the current all over the antenna will be constant and equal to the feeding-current, so also the average current will be equal to the feeding current (so it is double compared to a pure vertical). Double current means quadruple power, so 6dB gain. A 'quick and dirty' method to guestimate the radiation resistance of a topheaded vertical is to try to 'reconstruct' (or measure) the current distribution along the antenna. With an inverted-L antenna (with single topload wire) this is rather easy, assuming a linear current decrease from feeding point to end (where the current is 0). That way you can determine the current at the top of the vertical section and so the average current in this vertical section. An example : Assume we have an inverted-L antenna of 10m height and 30m topwire. Total antenna-length is 30m, so the current at the top will be 75% of the feeding current and the average current will be 0.875 times the feeding current. A pure 10m vertical (no tophat) would have an average current of 0.5 times the feeding current and a radiation resistance of 8.2 milliOhm. The topheaded vertical has a 1.75 times higher average current (in the vertical section) and so the radiation resistance will be 1.75^2 = 3.06 times higher (= 25 milliOhm). With more complex tophats calculations are less 'straightforward' bot not so much harder if we assume that the voltage over the antenna is constant and as a result of this via each 'pF' of antenna capacitance the same amount of current 'disapears'. The capacitance of the complete antenna can be measure in various ways and the capacitance of the vertical section can be estimated as 6pF per meter. An example : Assume we have a 10m high vertical with a number of tophat wires, the total capacitance of the antenna is measured as 300pF. Taking 6pF/m the 10m vertical section will have a capacitance of 60pF, the remaining 240pF is in the tophat. Since the 60pF of the vertical section is 20% of the total antenna capacitance also 20% of the feeding current will 'disapear' in the vertical section and so the current at the top of the vertical section will be 0.8 times the feeding current and the average current will be 0.9 times the feeding current. This is 1.8 times the average current that a 10m pure vertical would have, so the radiation resistance of this antenna will be 1.8^2 . 8.2 = 26.6 milliOhm. So far my 'view' on this item. But I have some other question on the same topic, I will put in in another mail to makes it not too complicated. 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28065 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 17:10:48 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 17:10:48 +0100 Received: (qmail 19737 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 16:10:58 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 16:10:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xBtf-0000m9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:58:39 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xBtf-0000m4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:58:39 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA10749 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:04:05 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990624181356.2cd71e98@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:13:56 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: ERP Calculations In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: I have also a question regarding the topic of radiation resistance of short verticals (with and without tophats) : All the formulas I saw so far alway assumed the vertical over a perfect ground. This means that 'below the earth' there is a perfect mirror of the vertical. In theory this 'mirror' increases the ERP by 6dB (sometimes know as 'ground-gain') compared to the same antenna without mirror. But on LF the ground will be far from perfect (and so will be the 'mirror'), unless you are above saltwater or dig miles of radials in your garden. So what is the value of this formulas in the real world ? 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23333 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 21:51:36 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 21:51:36 +0100 Received: (qmail 2682 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 20:51:33 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 20:51:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xG6v-0003WA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:28:37 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from premium.inrete.it ([194.116.9.4] helo=mailer.inrete.it ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xG6t-0003W2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:28:36 +0100 Received: from cel266 (pool17-137.dialup.alpcom.it [194.116.17.137]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA07951 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:28:29 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990624212427.007306d8@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:24:27 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: LF: RE: coil wind prob, evolution-1 In-reply-to: <001b01bebe4e$ad48aba0$dc96b38f@w8k3f0> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Gamal and all, I had very good results with my loading coil. The construction is probably rudimental, but works and may be seen on the web site of G3YXM (look at pictures). The coil has about 3,5 mH, and tunes a 13 m vertical wire with 3 top wires, spanning about 23m, spaced 1 m (2 m total width). The coil is wound on a garbage bag holder (no idea how it is called in English ...) made of PE (poliethylene). The wire is a 2 mm solid Cu insulated with silicon plastics, for an outer diameter of 3 mm. Total wire lenght is abt 120 m, and my coil has 100 turns. The Q at 137 is in the order of 1200 (calculated by G4FGQ sw) or over 1000 (extimated from real losses). The coil handles 20 kV on the high side (1 kW, about 6A RF x 3.3 kOhm reactance). The variometer is made of 10 turns on diameter 30 cm on the high side of the coil. The total excursion of the vario is more than enough to tune across the band and to compensate wet/dry soil conditions. If anyone is interested I may send detailed pictures. All calculations were done with G4FGQ SOLENOID.EXE. Initial extimations were from Bill Bowers' article in the LF Experimenter's Source Book (a very suggested reading). He tested various coil configurations, and the conclusions are valid. 73 - Marco IK1ODO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29996 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 22:27:24 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 22:27:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 6640 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 21:27:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 21:27:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xGmz-00042q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:12:05 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail1-gui.server.ntli.net ([194.168.222.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xGmz-00042l-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:12:05 +0100 Received: from cableol.co.uk ([194.168.18.83]) by mail1-gui.server.ntli.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-33929U70000L2S50) with ESMTP id AAA11132 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:00:19 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37729BA6.A5A38C09@cableol.co.uk> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:57:10 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: RE: PA0LQ QRT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: To All, I too was sorry to hear the news from fellow 'Early Bird', PA0LQ. Over the past 4 months, Harry and I have managed at least one LF QSO every weekend (except for one stormy weekend in May). Many of these QSOs took place at about 05:15 UTC, when noise levels were lowest  and long before most operators had even got out of bed! During most of this period, Harry's signals into GW (from his 35 m hanging wire) were about RST 559. But signals improved to 569 in May when he ran a wire from his balcony to a lamp-post; and jumped to an incredible 579 when he used a 65 m wire from the balcony to a tree, about 45 m away. I hope that Harry can find an alternative location for his LF radio station, and thereby continue his experiments. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3062 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 22:43:44 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 22:43:44 +0100 Received: (qmail 1827 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 21:43:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 21:43:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xH4O-0004DH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:30:04 +0100 Received: from mb06.swip.net ([193.12.122.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xH4N-0004DC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:30:03 +0100 Received: from s-257519 (dialup157-1-19.swipnet.se [130.244.157.19]) by mb06.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA17352 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:30:01 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <008f01bebe88$b387be40$b337f482@s-257519> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SV: More on Rr Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:28:56 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello, Mike Dennison wrote: >Further to my note on Radiation Resistance formulas, the highly >respected 160m expert ON4UN uses 1450 instead of "160 (or 60) >multiplied by pi squared" in his excellent book Low Band DXing. >This figure is lower than 160 x pi sq (1580) but nowhere near as low >as 60 x pi sq (592). I assume that he must have done some >practical measurements which gave him a better figure than that >calculated in the 1920s. Most antennas for the 160m band are much bigger than typical 136 kHz antennas in terms of wavelength. The current distribution is nearly sinusoidal but on 136 kHz only the last tiny bit of the "sine" is actually present on the antenna wire so it can be approximated as a linearly decreasing current (toward antenna end). This may explain the difference. The formula 1600 * L^2 / W^2 is valid but L is the so called effective height, not the physical heigth of the wire. In case of a pure vertical without top load, the effective height is physical height / 2 because the average current along the wire is feed current / 2. I agree with Rik Strobbe's explanation except for: >simplified for 136.75kHz this means that Ra (milli-Ohm) = 0.082 x l(meter) I would suggest: Ra (milli-Ohm) = 0.082 x l ^2 (meter squared) 73 de Johan, SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6075 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 22:59:58 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 22:59:58 +0100 Received: (qmail 4121 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 22:00:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 22:00:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xHLm-0004QT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:48:02 +0100 Received: from neodymium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.83]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xHLl-0004QO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:48:01 +0100 Received: from [212.140.36.63] (helo=default) by neodymium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10xHIX-0001lX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:44:41 +0100 Message-ID: <003d01bebe8b$1f3437c0$3f248cd4@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: re PA0LQ QRT Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:35:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Dick PA0SE Please pass on to Harry our sadness at the loss of his signal to 136kHz. I have come to recognise it as a consistent sign of activity from Europe. I always listen to see who is being worked. Suggest to him as the problem is the 'radiation' that he continues to use his aerial as a RECEIVING AERIAL. We must not let all this pseudo science by people with zero knowledge of technical subjects force us off the bands. I know that it is sometimes difficult as Harry has to live with his neighbours and his landlord, but how would they feel if he complained about the whine from their TV timebases giving him migraine! (I have actually heard of such a 'claimed' case.) We look forward to the possibility of him being able to return to LF at some time in the future, there are few enough dedicated experimenters in the hobby these days to be able afford to loose one. 73 de Alan G3NYK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2235 invoked from network); 25 Jun 1999 06:48:44 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Jun 1999 06:48:44 +0100 Received: (qmail 13138 invoked from network); 25 Jun 1999 05:48:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jun 1999 05:48:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xOZS-0000F5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 06:30:38 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as-img-4.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.147] helo=spamgaad.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xOZQ-0000F0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 06:30:37 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.1) id BAA25572 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 01:30:34 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 01:30:03 -0400 From: "Dave Sergeant" Subject: Re: LF: Noise from phone lines To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199906250130_MC2-7ABE-BF1F@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: >From Dave G3YMC An associated topic, not yet having hit us in the UK yet, but imminent, is the ADSL system for putting high speed internet at 1.5Mb/s down normal telephone lines. An excellent, though fairly technical, article on this and associated techniques appears in the IEE Electronics and Communications Engineering Journal, June 1999 issue, entitled 'High Speed Copper Access: a tutorial overview'. The article in particular discusses interference problems, to and from, amateur transmissions, and indicates that the designers do indeed take these interference problems seriously. Unfortunately they have not heard of 136kHz and state that amateur interference is not an issue with ADSL which only uses frequencies up to 1MHz or so! Some of the scenarios considered for the much faster (26Mb/s) VDSL system which is much further down the line for deployment however make me think that we will have big problems if these systems take off! I have not seen such open discussion of amateur matters in any official papers from the proponents of the PLT (data over mains) systems, which as we know have been shown to have serious QRM problems for the amateur bands. I wonder if the two parties do talk to each other!! 73s Dave G3YMC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5348 invoked from network); 25 Jun 1999 07:18:00 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Jun 1999 07:18:00 +0100 Received: (qmail 15164 invoked from network); 25 Jun 1999 06:17:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jun 1999 06:17:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xP4x-0000bF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:03:11 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout01.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.149]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xP4w-0000bA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:03:10 +0100 Received: from fwd07.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.167]) by mailout01.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 10xP4u-0002wG-00; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:03:08 +0200 Received: (320057114934-0001(btxid)@[62.158.46.75]) by fwd07.btx.dtag.de id ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:02:41 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:02:41 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: PA0LQ- qrt X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 320057114934-0001@t-online.de From: "DF2PY" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi Dick ! Please qsp to Harry that i really regret him being forced off the air ! He was one of the stations that i could count on even on hi noise days. But i guess he will find a way back to 137 - as he sure is a real child of Samuel Morse and G.Marconi ! BTW i was down at the Bodensee meeting ( Ham-radio ) in Friedrichshafen and met a few LF guys but did not have the time to stay for long. 73 de wolf From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed Return-Path: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 7561 invoked from network); 25 Jun 1999 07:40:52 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Jun 1999 07:40:52 +0100 Received: (qmail 16641 invoked from network); 25 Jun 1999 06:40:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jun 1999 06:40:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xPTX-0000pC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:28:35 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ns.cro.cz ([193.179.196.2] ident=qmailr) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xPTV-0000p7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:28:33 +0100 Received: (qmail 15544 invoked from network); 25 Jun 1999 06:28:31 -0000 Received: from fw.cro.cz (HELO ns-int.cro.cz) (193.179.197.2) by ns.cro.cz with SMTP; 25 Jun 1999 06:28:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from radiohk.hk.cro.cz (ns.hk.cro.cz [172.27.1.2]) by ns-int.cro.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA19480 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:28:29 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc033hk.hk.cro.cz ([172.27.1.33]) by radiohk.hk.cro.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA02248 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:28:23 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by pc033hk.hk.cro.cz with Microsoft Mail id <01BEBEE4.AFEFC5A0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz>; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:28:22 +-200 Message-ID: <01BEBEE4.AFEFC5A0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> From: "OK1FIG" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: RE: coil wind prob, evolution-1 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:28:21 +-200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Yes, of course. I wound these coils for first experiments and mainly for RX. Few other aspects of behaviour comply to Gamal's theory. 1. When I added layers to get to resonance I had to add much more layers than I expected. The reason is simple. With adding layers the capacity raised which demanded another inductancy to be added and so on... 2. The coils have strange behaviour as if they were not in series. Changing the tap on the tapped coil should result in different angle of inner coil of the vario to get tuned again. But they seem to have their separate maxima not to correlated with each other too much. It correspondens to Gamal suggestion of taking it for coupled band-pass filter. I do not believe that the coil should be necessarily single layered. I will try to follow Gamal's suggestion for spacing wires and layers with the same distance as the diameter of wire is. I hope the coils will have much less layers and the strange behavior will disapper. Not yet QRV but most probably I will listen to normal CW this weekend at the cottage. I will take special care of first minutes of each hour again. Some further improvement of ant is prepared. I would like to hear also stations from U.K.! 73 Petr OK1FIG ---------- Od: Dick Rollema[SMTP:d.w.rollema@gironet.nl] Odesláno: 24. cervna 1999 16:33 Komu: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Predmet: LF: Re: RE: coil wind prob, evolution-1 Petr, You wrote: There are about 7 layers. This is wrong. Loading coils should be wound in a single layer to keep the capacitance of the coil small. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 78 invoked from network); 25 Jun 1999 09:54:42 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Jun 1999 09:54:42 +0100 Received: (qmail 23982 invoked from network); 25 Jun 1999 08:54:56 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jun 1999 08:54:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xRYS-000251-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:41:48 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.interalpha.co.uk ([195.26.224.18] helo=post.interalpha.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xRYP-00024u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:41:45 +0100 Received: from th-mod29.interalpha.net (th-mod29.interalpha.net [195.26.228.220]) by post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id JAA03865 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:45:04 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:45:04 +0100 Message-ID: <199906250845.JAA03865@post.interalpha.net> X-Sender: drassew2@post.interalpha.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: drassew2@interalpha.co.uk Subject: Re: LF: Noise from phone lines Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: I am a member of the Expert Group put together, predominantly by the RSGB, to look at the issue of Power Line Telecommunications. The results of our findings hvae been well reported in the EMC columns of RadCom recently, and these are being formulated into a specification to be issued by the RadioCommunications agency on radiation levels from ALL fixed wiring in the 150kHz to 30 MHz band. Dave Lauder the editor of that column is a member of the Group. This reflector is not the forum to give out details of this specification, as it is still in the consultation stage with industry and users, but if approved it is safe to say that radiation levels will be specified at a level sufficient to not cause interference to LF - HF communication at a distance of 10m from any fixed wiring - not specifically power lines. That is not to say some systems may not be compliant, but if interference is caused there will be a legally enforceable specification in place. As for the PLT issue - and this was reported in the EMC columns - the amateur bands have never been under a serious threat from PLT as the proponents were at great pains to protect the services they knew about such as amateurs, broadcast, distress. Unfortunately, the frequencies they unilaterally decided were 'safe' to use happened to be where my professional interests lay and hence my concern with the matter - the amateur radio conncetion was coincidental and convenient! I suggest you re-read the RadCom EMC columns over the last year or so for a full update. Unfortunately the frequencies of interest do not extend down to 137kHz - there is a valid reason for that, and is probably explained in one of the RadCom articles. Andy Talbot G4JNT >>From G3YMC >An associated topic, not yet having hit us in the UK yet, but imminent, is >the ADSL system for putting high speed internet at 1.5Mb/s down normal >telephone lines. An excellent, though fairly technical, article on this and >associated techniques appears in the IEE Electronics and Communications >Engineering Journal, June 1999 issue, entitled 'High Speed Copper Access: a >tutorial overview'. > >The article in particular discusses interference problems, to and from, >amateur transmissions, and indicates that the designers do indeed take >these interference problems seriously. Unfortunately they have not heard >of 136kHz and state that amateur interference is not an issue with ADSL >which only uses frequencies up to 1MHz or so! Some of the scenarios >considered for the much faster (26Mb/s) VDSL system which is much further >down the line for deployment however make me think that we will have big >problems if these systems take off! > >I have not seen such open discussion of amateur matters in any official >papers from the proponents of the PLT (data over mains) systems, which as >we know have been shown to have serious QRM problems for the amateur bands. >I wonder if the two parties do talk to each other!! From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12979 invoked from network); 25 Jun 1999 10:38:23 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Jun 1999 10:38:23 +0100 Received: (qmail 29296 invoked from network); 25 Jun 1999 09:38:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jun 1999 09:38:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xSIi-0002XP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:29:36 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ([195.186.1.75]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xSIf-0002XK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:29:34 +0100 Received: from phonakcom.ch ([195.186.13.172]) by bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ( with ESMTP id AAA11B7 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:29:21 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37734EEB.4C15830B@phonakcom.ch> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:42:03 +0200 From: "Toni Baertschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Cloth hanger antenna Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: >From HB9ASB, JN36pt With increasing summer QRN I'm less QRV (except for early morning skeds on weekends) and more outside for new LF antenna tests. Regarding these tests I've two questions. 1. I would like to try an inverted "cloth hanger" antenna as an alternative to the classic T-antenna (mechanical advantage!) Has somebody already experience with a LF antenna of this kind? 2. I have the means to measure the fieldstrenght (V/m) close to my antenna (up to 100m away). Is there a reliable method to calculate the ERP from the fieldstrenght? 73 de Toni From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13522 invoked from network); 25 Jun 1999 10:41:08 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Jun 1999 10:41:08 +0100 Received: (qmail 29603 invoked from network); 25 Jun 1999 09:41:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jun 1999 09:41:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xSLO-0002dq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:32:22 +0100 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xSLN-0002dl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:32:22 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10xSLd-0005JH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:32:38 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:15:30 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:17:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: ERP Calculations In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.19990624180651.2f0fc7fc@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> References: X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: ON7YD wrote: > > Pure mathematical the radiation resistance of a short (in wavelength) > vertical monopole above a perfect ground is : > > Ra = 40 . Pi^2 . l^2 / L^2 > > where Pi = 3.1415... , l = antenna-length , L = wavelength and ^2 means > squared. > > simplified for 136.75kHz this means that Ra (milli-Ohm) = 0.082 x l(meter) > > The same vertical with a infinite top-capacitance has a radiation > resistance of > > Ra = 160 . Pi^2 . l^2 / L^2 > > so 4 times the radiation resistance of the same vertical without tophat and > with the same antennacurrent it will have a 6dB higher ERP. > > Any 'real-world' vertical with tophead wil have a radiation resistance > somewhere inbetween. > OK, so you agree with the Admiralty Handbook figure of 160 for a perfect top section (the figure 40 you quote at the start must assume that L is the =actual= height of a vertical antenna as the effective height is half that of a Marconi with a perfect top). Of course the figure of 160 must be corrected for effective height as you suggest. So for any practical short Marconi, ERP is: I^2 x 160 x pi^2 x effective height^2 divided by wavelength^2 which simplifies to: I^2 x 0.325 x effective height^2 to give a figure in mW on 136kHz. That makes my ERP 43mW. And, incidentally, just over 10mW on 73kHz. You mentioned the effect of an imperfect ground. Doesn't that just come into the losses that reduce the current? Mike From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24454 invoked from network); 25 Jun 1999 11:25:50 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Jun 1999 11:25:50 +0100 Received: (qmail 2332 invoked from network); 25 Jun 1999 10:26:04 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jun 1999 10:26:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xSzY-00032g-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:13:52 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xSzX-00032b-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:13:51 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA12225 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:19:18 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990625122907.2e7ff5b8@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:29:07 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: ERP Calculations In-reply-to: References: <3.0.1.16.19990624180651.2f0fc7fc@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: At 10:17 25/06/99 +0100, G3XDV wrote: >ON7YD wrote: >> >> Pure mathematical the radiation resistance of a short (in wavelength) >> vertical monopole above a perfect ground is : >> >> Ra = 40 . Pi^2 . l^2 / L^2 >> ... >> The same vertical with a infinite top-capacitance has a radiation >> resistance of >> >> Ra = 160 . Pi^2 . l^2 / L^2 >> > >OK, so you agree with the Admiralty Handbook figure of 160 for a >perfect top section (the figure 40 you quote at the start must >assume that L is the =actual= height of a vertical antenna as the >effective height is half that of a Marconi with a perfect top). Of >course the figure of 160 must be corrected for effective height as >you suggest. The first formula (with 40) is valid for a short vertical monopole without any topload over a perfect ground, the second formula (with 160) is valid for a short vertical monopole with an infinite topload above a perfect ground. >So for any practical short Marconi, ERP is: >I^2 x 160 x pi^2 x effective height^2 divided by wavelength^2 Only if the topload is infinite, otherwise it will be less. >You mentioned the effect of an imperfect ground. Doesn't that just >come into the losses that reduce the current? That is what I thought so far, but some days ago I had a discussion about that with someone who has been professionaly involved in this matter and for him it was not that straightforward. So I would like know the opinions of the LF-group members. 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25757 invoked from network); 25 Jun 1999 11:31:57 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Jun 1999 11:31:57 +0100 Received: (qmail 3064 invoked from network); 25 Jun 1999 10:32:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jun 1999 10:32:12 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xT5a-00036e-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:20:06 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xT5Z-000368-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:20:05 +0100 Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id GAA31258; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 06:25:14 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA10453; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 06:19:02 -0400 Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by umrsvr.hsd.utc.com; (8.9.3/) id GAA13654; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 06:16:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:16:14 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Soegiono, Gamal" <"\"Soegiono, Gamal\"soegiono"@nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com> To: "'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org'" <"\"'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org'\"rsgb_lf_group"@blacksheep.org> Subject: LF: calculating ERP from field strength measurements Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:16:09 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Toni, hello all, > From HB9ASB, JN36pt > 2. I have the means to measure the fieldstrenght (V/m) close to my > antenna (up to 100m away). Is there a reliable method to calculate the > ERP from the fieldstrenght? Yes and no. Yes - you could measure the field strength at a known distance from your antenna and calculate the ERP from that. The equation is: EIRP = [D * E]^2/30 EIRP = effective isotropic radiated power [W] D = Distance [m] E = electrical fieldstrength [V/m] No - you cannot deduce ERP from taking Fieldstrength at a distance of 100m, as you are still in the reactive near field of your antenna at 137kHz and equation above is valid ONLY in the far field. The nearfield/farfield transition is said to occur at 1/(2*PI) the wavelength. This would be 350m for 137kHz alias 2200m wavelength. As I saw in articles regarding nearfield/farfield transition distance, actual measurements should be made at distances which are a function of the radiators sizes related to the wavelength for the results to be reliable. Quater wave verticals require at least 1 wavelength distance. Half wave verticals require at least 1.5 wavelength distance. For shorter than 1/4 wavelength verticals the recommended measuring distance is 1 wavelength. If you cannot take measurements more remotely, then you may think of using numerical methods (NEC) to calculate near field values of electrical field strength. Assume a ERP value, go through the NEC procedure, if resultant field strength is lower than measured one, then increase assumed ERP etc. Best 73 Gamal Soegiono (SWL) 50N01 / 08E27 / JO 40 fa soegiono@nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9461 invoked from network); 25 Jun 1999 12:36:37 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Jun 1999 12:36:37 +0100 Received: (qmail 10506 invoked from network); 25 Jun 1999 11:36:52 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jun 1999 11:36:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xU9K-0003l4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:28:02 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xU9I-0003kz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:28:00 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA12576 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:33:25 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990625134314.2d8f9206@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:43:14 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: ERP Calculations In-reply-to: References: <3.0.1.16.19990624180651.2f0fc7fc@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: I forgot one thing to mention in my previous mail : a short vertical monopole above a perfect ground has a gain of 4.77dBi or 2.62dBd (due to the radiation pattern), so you have to add (multiply) this 4.77dBi (or power-factor 3) to get your EIRP or alternatively add (multiply) 2.62dB (power-factor 1.83) to get your ERP. For EIRP is P = 3 x Ra x I^2 For a wavelength of 2200m and a vertical monopole of length L without topload : Peirp = 0.245 x L^2 x I^2 (P in mW, L in m, I in A) For a wavelength of 2200m and a vertical monopole of length L with infinite topload : Peirp = 0.979 x L^2 x I^2 (P in mW, L in m, I in A) For ERP is P = 1.83 x Ra x I^2 For a wavelength of 2200m and a vertical monopole of length L without topload : Perp = 0.149 x L^2 x I^2 (P in mW, L in m, I in A) For a wavelength of 2200m and a vertical monopole of length L with infinite topload : Perp = 0.597 x L^2 x I^2 (P in mW, L in m, I in A) 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10445 invoked from network); 25 Jun 1999 12:41:46 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Jun 1999 12:41:46 +0100 Received: (qmail 15904 invoked from network); 25 Jun 1999 11:41:47 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jun 1999 11:41:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xUDz-0003rN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:32:51 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xUDy-0003rI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:32:50 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA11562 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:38:17 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990625134806.2c470572@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:48:06 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Cloth hanger antenna In-reply-to: <37734EEB.4C15830B@phonakcom.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: At 11:42 25/06/99 +0200, HB9ASB wrote: >2. I have the means to measure the fieldstrenght (V/m) close to my >antenna (up to 100m away). Is there a reliable method to calculate the >ERP from the fieldstrenght? I am interested to find a reliable method to measure fieldstrength, I have read about some methods using small 1-turn loops but they all need good calibration. Regarding the distance : I read somewhere that on 150kHz a 'far-field' measurement can be done at 1km (= 0.5 wavelengths), I am afraid that 100m is too less. 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2963 invoked from network); 26 Jun 1999 00:56:51 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Jun 1999 00:56:51 +0100 Received: (qmail 232 invoked from network); 25 Jun 1999 23:56:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Jun 1999 23:56:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xfdY-0002QK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 00:44:00 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xfdW-0002QE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 00:43:59 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA27210 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 00:43:57 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <1999062600531768199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 00:53:17 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: Re: LF: More on Rr Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit >Mike Dennison wrote: > Further to my note on Radiation Resistance formulas, the highly > respected 160m expert ON4UN uses 1450 instead of "160 (or 60) > multiplied by pi squared" in his excellent book Low Band DXing. > This figure is lower than 160 x pi sq (1580) but nowhere near as low > as 60 x pi sq (592). I assume that he must have done some > practical measurements which gave him a better figure than that > calculated in the 1920s. > My first reaction is that (shock, horror) Terman and many others > are wrong and the Admiralty was almost right. > And my ERP is definitely (probably, perhaps) 44mW. The LF Experimenter's Source Book shows a method of estimating ERP using Roy Lewallen's antenna modelling software, EZNEC. The results correlated well with signal strength measurements made by G3YGF and by calculations made by Rik, ON7YD. The technique was also described at the LF Forum of last year's HF Convention. Has anyone else tried the EZNEC program? It might show which of the formulas is nearest to reality. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12092 invoked from network); 26 Jun 1999 17:55:29 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Jun 1999 17:55:29 +0100 Received: (qmail 21894 invoked from network); 26 Jun 1999 16:55:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jun 1999 16:55:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xvYN-0003Lw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 17:43:43 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mailout04.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10xvYM-0003Lr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 17:43:42 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fwd04.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.164]) by mailout04.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 10xvYF-0002ZL-00; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 18:43:35 +0200 Received: (320057114934-0001(btxid)@[62.158.47.150]) by fwd04.btx.dtag.de id ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 18:43:26 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 18:43:26 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: DK7UY@geocities.com Subject: LF: New RX loop for LF X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 320057114934-0001@t-online.de From: "DF2PY" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello Lowfers ! This is a more practical report for a change after all the math regarding ERP etc. etc. . I finished my rx - loop with a side length of 1.75 meters at a square design and 12 turns ar a length of 1.2 meters.Basically i used an old homemade centerpiece of a spider Quad and inserted broomsticks into it-A real EL Cheapo and EL Speedo design.Drilled holes into the Horizontal bars to hold the wires in place.I resonated it with about 3nF and fine tuning with an air-variable.Matching with an unbal/unbal at the cold end of the loop,i could have run it symmetrical but chose to put ground potential to one side. >>From there i run coax into the crystal filter. otential to one side. I found the resonance pretty sharp and the minima on the sides are about 30db down.I will try to evaluate the horizontal width for minus 3db for fronts and sides.At the moment i have to turn manually,that means if i get calls from the "wrong side" i may be in a bad position. So far no qso with the new one but hope tmw morning the traditional activity comes up.But in the long run it will be mandatory to rotate it remotely. At the small given number of stations active we cant miss out on a single one. Rite now i can hear some T&L approach-which is normal here after a few hot days in a row. 73 to all the friends "down there" df2py From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15445 invoked from network); 26 Jun 1999 23:12:02 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Jun 1999 23:12:02 +0100 Received: (qmail 15103 invoked from network); 26 Jun 1999 22:12:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jun 1999 22:12:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10y0Po-0006Fb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 22:55:12 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [203.96.92.1] (helo=mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10y0Pk-0006FW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 22:55:09 +0100 Received: from [202.27.181.202] by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990626215740.BRH3789.mta1-rme@[202.27.181.202]> for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 09:57:40 +1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37754423.2DAE@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 09:20:35 +1200 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Antennas References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Mike Dennison wrote: > > I have done very many antenna experiments over the past 2-3 > years to get a better signal at 73 and 136kHz from a small garden. snip snip I have found by using a telescopic mast at the outer part of my LF top loading that there is a significant benefit in being "all wires high" and certainly avoid a low wire such as in an "inverted Vee" or "downhill L". Readings were made by a local amateur using a calibrated selective level meter, and done several times, with consistent results. A lower wire likely causes an electric "hot spot" (extra ground loss) or reduces effective height (efficiency is height squared), or a combination of both. As always on LF, sky hooks are very welcome :) > One a similar topic, what influences the capacitance of a multi-wire > top section? Is it simply wire diameter so a thick wire has more > capacitance than a thin wire? What about multiple parallel wires - > these are often suggested to be a metre or so apart - why? If the > distance makes a difference, do I assume that the further apart > they are the better the effect, and if so why is this? The formula for capacitance of a wire over ground (which I do not have on hand at present) involves a logarithmic relationship with wire diameter. The practical implication is that the capacitance of one wire does not vary much with wire size, but of course capacitance still varies directly with wire length. Using more than one wire needs to have some spacing between wires, else they are similar to one slightly fatter wire, so the increase in capacitance is small. In the other extreme, if two wires are far apart, that can double the net capacitance to ground. However, most practical amateur antennas have a limit in support points, so running wires in parallel is worth trying. Proximity effect takes its toll as wires are placed closer together, so spacers of the order of half to one metre likely give a good compromise. Some digital multimeters (DMM) on the capacitance range give a meaninful reading of antenna capacitance at very low frequencies (typically in the audio range, depends on the type of DMM). This can be used to assess "before" and "after" capacitance when playing around with changes to top loading. Generally the higher capacitance obtained the better (so long as it does not include drooping outer ends!). > I used to run three top wires about 300mm apart but replaced these > with a single wire of the same diameter of each of the three (for > other reasons) and it seemed to make little difference. Was I doing > something wrong? The three wires should have been better, but probably by only a dB or so. Unless careful before and after tests were done then it could be difficult to pick any improvement. But on LF transmit, every dB helps ! > Also, if I run three top wires in parallel, should I join them at the far > end? Or perhaps I could join them so they make a single zig-zag > wire down the garden, back again and down again. Probably little difference, but it is practical to join them at the central node (top of the "up wire") and doing that avoids any voltage differences at top loading spacers. Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16920 invoked from network); 26 Jun 1999 23:23:47 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Jun 1999 23:23:47 +0100 Received: (qmail 15902 invoked from network); 26 Jun 1999 22:23:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Jun 1999 22:23:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10y0a1-0006LB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:05:45 +0100 Received: from neodymium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.83]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10y0a0-0006L6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:05:44 +0100 Received: from [212.140.33.70] (helo=default) by neodymium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10y0Wm-0000ko-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:02:24 +0100 Message-ID: <001e01bec01f$ebc79f80$46218cd4@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Field strength measurement....Rik Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 22:53:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi Rik, I have been grappling with the idea that I need to know how good (or how bad!) my antenna is on reception. After several months of listening and slight changes I know it isn't good enough...but how do I know if I have built a better one or improved it? My searchings brought me up to a page in Terman (mine's a 1948 copy!) in Ch13 pg 974 (but I think it will vary with the editions) which advises on how to inject a known field strength into a loop with a signal generator. It uses a coil across the sig gen output with a reactance at least three times the output impedance of the generator, and placed about twice the largest dimension of the loop aerial, away from the loop. There is an equation for the field strength generated. It occurs to me that a coil of 150ohms reactance at 136kHz is about 300uH which is quite a sizeable solenoid. I guess that an emitter follower to reduce the output impedance to about 1 ohm, would bring the requirement down to about 3uH which is a lot easier to wind, and a lot more compact. Then your 1-turn loop aerial would be a possible way of doing it?? The field strength is given by e= (18.85*N*E*(r)^2)/X*d^3 where N is the number of turns on the exciter coil E is the sig-gen voltage in mV r is radius of the exciter coil; in cm d is the distance between the exciter coil and loop aerial in metres X is the reactance of the exciter coil and e is in uV/metre There is not a lot more than that in the text but I am willing to send a photocopy to anyone who wants it. I believe that there is a similar explanation in a 1956 copy of The Radio Laboratory Handbook by the well known Mr Scroggie. I can't check the above formula against that because I loaned my copy to someone a few years ago and didn't get it back. Hope that's useful....there is a lot of interesting gen about loop aerials in the latest Radcomm, probably similar to a lot that has been published before, but an interesting practical design incorporating a 'rejector' tuned circuit that might help Wolf with his strong out of band QRM. 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28686 invoked from network); 27 Jun 1999 01:45:22 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Jun 1999 01:45:22 +0100 Received: (qmail 23555 invoked from network); 27 Jun 1999 00:45:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jun 1999 00:45:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10y2xa-0007xJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 01:38:14 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [203.96.92.1] (helo=mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10y2xY-0007xB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 01:38:13 +0100 Received: from [202.27.178.244] by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990627004046.WNS3789.mta1-rme@[202.27.178.244]> for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 12:40:46 +1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37756D1E.72AF@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 12:15:26 +1200 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: ERP Calculations References: <3.0.1.16.19990624181356.2cd71e98@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > > I have also a question regarding the topic of radiation resistance of short > verticals (with and without tophats) : > > All the formulas I saw so far alway assumed the vertical over a perfect > ground. > This means that 'below the earth' there is a perfect mirror of the vertical. > In theory this 'mirror' increases the ERP by 6dB (sometimes know as > 'ground-gain') compared to the same antenna without mirror. > But on LF the ground will be far from perfect (and so will be the > 'mirror'), unless you are above saltwater or dig miles of radials in your > garden. > > So what is the value of this formulas in the real world ? > > 73, Rik In my view the main issue with radiation efficiency is GROUND LOSS. Any calculated value of radiation resistance (units of millohms look better than ohms!) will usually be swamped by the ground loss (equivalent series resistance). While radiated power can be estimated using the estimated radiation resistance Rr and measured antenna current I (radiated power being I squared Rr) the most practical way of improving the current for a given applied power is to decrease the ground loss (by using as many ground radials as is practicable in a given site). Lowering the ground loss will require rematching (an L network is convenient) and the increase in loop current for a given applied power will give a "squared" increase in radiated power, for the same top part of the antenna. Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28694 invoked from network); 27 Jun 1999 01:45:28 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Jun 1999 01:45:28 +0100 Received: (qmail 23563 invoked from network); 27 Jun 1999 00:45:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jun 1999 00:45:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10y2xl-0007xQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 01:38:25 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [203.96.92.1] (helo=mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10y2xj-0007xC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 01:38:24 +0100 Received: from [202.27.178.244] by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990627004059.WOF3789.mta1-rme@[202.27.178.244]> for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 12:40:59 +1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37757092.1D26@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 12:30:11 +1200 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RX loops References: <199906231701_MC2-7A7F-E9F5@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Prof R. Jennison wrote: > > Go for the biggest loop with the highest Q that you can get > 73. > Roger G2AJV Agreed. The fundamental parameter is APERTURE. The number of turns is really a sort of impedance matching arrangement, especially if a high impedance tuned load is used. But in the end it is SQUARE METRES of loop area that does the basic receiving. In ZL we have found that the minimum sized loop that can still receive with external QRN as the dominant noise source is for a loop with about 1.5 metres per side i.e. just over 2 square metres area. That is for 180 kHz. Smaller area than that gets dominated by noise in the receiving pre-amplifier. Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13383 invoked from network); 27 Jun 1999 05:54:37 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Jun 1999 05:54:37 +0100 Received: (qmail 32739 invoked from network); 27 Jun 1999 04:54:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Jun 1999 04:54:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10y6kt-0001p2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 05:41:23 +0100 Received: from mailout01.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.149]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10y6ks-0001ox-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 05:41:22 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fwd10.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.170]) by mailout01.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 10y6kn-0001xr-00; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 06:41:17 +0200 Received: (320057114934-0001(btxid)@[62.157.27.111]) by fwd10.btx.dtag.de id ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 06:41:04 +0200 Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 06:41:04 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: DK7UY@geocities.com References: <37754423.2DAE@xtra.co.nz> Subject: Re: LF: Antennas by ZL2CA X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 320057114934-0001@t-online.de From: "DF2PY" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello Lowfers ! I fully agree with Bob in every respect.My findings were that evenly distributing Top-Hat wires on 360 degrees brought maximum current due to maximum C.My top-hat is fixed at about 50 feet height for each wire,i just cant put up higher towers to get a real umbrella-type topload,i have to sacrifice some fieldstrength by dropping the wires from 107 ft to about 50 ft,but i tried to get the biggest angle between ire and vertikal part of radiator. In my case a Digital C-meter went nuts when i connected it to the antenna- guess i told about the vicinity of powerful LF-Transmitters-i just could not handle the RF voltage.Then i applied the technique of detuning a known LC network at a frequency lower than the estmated resonant frequency of the antenna-that gave reliable readings. 73 de wolf df2py BTW T&L last nite and heavy rain this morning we`ll see about LF ! From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29161 invoked from network); 29 Jun 1999 22:45:48 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Jun 1999 22:45:48 +0100 Received: (qmail 25748 invoked from network); 29 Jun 1999 21:46:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Jun 1999 21:46:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10z5Kr-0006zz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 22:22:33 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail1-gui.server.ntli.net ([194.168.222.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10z5Kq-0006zu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 22:22:32 +0100 Received: from cableol.co.uk ([194.168.18.25]) by mail1-gui.server.ntli.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-33929U70000L2S50) with ESMTP id AAA5550 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 22:07:23 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <377934B9.DC90D799@cableol.co.uk> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 22:03:54 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Transverter Details Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi All The QRN has made operation on LF difficult over the past week, so very little activity to report from here. And I'll be away this weekend (VHF FD at G4BRA/P), so I won't get much operating time on LF this coming weekend either. Instead, I've been adding some circuit diagrams to my web site. Those interested in seeing details of my transverter might want to take a look at: http://www.cableol.net/alg/radio/136/transvtr.htm Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3350 invoked from network); 29 Jun 1999 23:02:58 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Jun 1999 23:02:58 +0100 Received: (qmail 5617 invoked from network); 29 Jun 1999 22:03:21 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Jun 1999 22:03:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yZJX-0002of-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:11:03 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yZJW-0002oa-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:11:02 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA15645 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:16:31 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990628132618.2d975a94@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:26:18 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Field strength measurement....Rik In-reply-to: <001e01bec01f$ebc79f80$46218cd4@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi Alen, Thanks for the information, I think it is worth trying. If this method is correct I would de really easy to calibrate a loop for field-strength measurements. It strikes me that most usefull (practical) information about LF is found in rather old books, the most usefull book I found so far is the German 'Taschenbuch der Hochfrequenztechnik' of 1968. All more recent books just ignore LF or have only very basic information. Maybe it would be interesting to have a list a usefull books about LF published via this reflector, so we know what to look for at rallies or in second-hand bookstores. Regarding Toni's problem of measuring ERP at short distance it might be possible to measure once the fieldstrength at at least 1km distance and calculate the ERP from that. Then measure the fieldstrength at a short distance (with the same antenna / power) and determine the conversion-factor so you can do all further ERP measurement at short distance from the antenna. 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14892 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 00:03:28 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 00:03:28 +0100 Received: (qmail 12341 invoked from network); 29 Jun 1999 23:03:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Jun 1999 23:03:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yXU6-0001a7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:13:50 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yXU5-0001a2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:13:49 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10yXTA-0000LG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:12:52 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:02:19 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:04:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Spacer X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Since the radio was so noisy this weekend, I spent time both improving the transmitted power and getting a better idea of the real antenna current. I finally managed to get 1.7A into my inverted-L from my 200W Tx to give 135mW ERP. Several stations have commented on the strength of the key-up 'spacer' signal from my Tx (yes, I will fix it). Since my current meter does not read at all when the key is up, it took some time for me to come up with a measured power level of the leak-through. I found it was 3W, which gave an antenna current of 210mA, and an ERP of 2mW. (Incidentally, when I first started on 136kHz, my current was not much more than this and the antenna was smaller!). Two UK stations have heard this signal and Rik, ON7YD, can just read it on his Spectrogram screen. At 176,500km/watt is this a record?!!! It certainly shows what can be done with an extremely low ERP. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25742 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 01:04:40 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 01:04:40 +0100 Received: (qmail 18619 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 00:05:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 00:05:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yXFd-0001NW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:58:53 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yXFd-0001NR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:58:53 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10yXEi-0006lg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:57:57 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:51:25 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:53:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Weekend Report 26.27 June X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Another extremely noisy weekend so spent the time usefully improving my signal. Saturday 26 June Local noise S9 all day. Heard G4GVC (599). Very bad QRN added to the QRM by lunch time so gave up. Improved Tx output by adding a big fan to keep it cool. Note: the BK Electronics audio amps tend to reduce power when hot. Managed 1.7A antenna current - equivalent to 135mW ERP. Sunday 27 June Local QRM still S9. Saw on Spectrogram screen QRSs transmissions from HB9ASB ('O') and DJ8BV ('M'). Because of the very narrow bandwidths used, the QRM has less effect than with conventional CW. QRM went off by 0900 - first quiet band for nearly three weeks. Worked G3KEV (gave him 599, got 579 - much better than previous best); G4GVC (599, 589 - also better report than ever before). QRN and, later, the local QRM made the band unusable by lunch time. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6319 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 02:12:08 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 02:12:08 +0100 Received: (qmail 24681 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 01:12:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 01:12:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yX7m-0001Jz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:50:46 +0100 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yX7k-0001Ju-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:50:44 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10yX6q-0005pu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:49:48 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:43:54 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:45:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Field strength measurement....Rik In-reply-to: <001e01bec01f$ebc79f80$46218cd4@default> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Alan Melia wrote: > I have been grappling with the idea that I need to know how good (or how > bad!) my antenna is on reception. After several months of listening and > slight changes I know it isn't good enough...but how do I know if I have > built a better one or improved it? I use the simple method of monitoring LF beacons close to the 136kHz band, notably the DCF beacon on 138.82 and the Greek RTTY just below 136kHz. The German one is remarkably stable on ground wave, but has a useful sky wave component after dark. The Greek signal is almost completely sky wave (it is audible sometimes all day) but has a stable maximum strength on most days. These give a practical measure of how good the antenna is at a distance which is really what is required. Of course, if it is purely receiving you are interested in, the signal to noise is more important than simple signal strength, but I can also measure the relative noise level on the S meter (when local QRM generators are off - an increasingly rare occurrence). As a 'ball park' figure, DCF should be several tens of dB over 9 and the Greek RTTY should be S9 (at night) for a noise reading of less than S3. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28261 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 04:49:40 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 04:49:40 +0100 Received: (qmail 20498 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 03:50:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 03:50:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yKQf-0001fr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 20:17:25 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yKQe-0001fm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 20:17:24 +0100 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-120-12.bellatlantic.net [151.200.120.12]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA26612; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 15:15:39 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37767785.FA5629BC@bellatlantic.net> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 15:12:06 -0400 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Field strength measurement. References: <001e01bec01f$ebc79f80$46218cd4@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Alan Melia wrote: > [...] > The field strength is given by > e= (18.85*N*E*(r)^2)/X*d^3 > where N is the number of turns on the exciter coil > E is the sig-gen voltage in mV > r is radius of the exciter coil; in cm > d is the distance between the exciter coil and loop aerial in > metres > X is the reactance of the exciter coil > and e is in uV/metre > There is not a lot more than that in the text but I am willing to send a > photocopy to anyone who wants it. Interestingly, Terman and Pettit also wrote "Electronics Measurements" (McGraw-Hill 1952) and , on pp. 400-410 developed the above theme, giving more details and sketches of various methods used in receiver measurements.Quoting from page 403: If the self-resonant frequency of the signal-generator loop is very high compared with the operating frequency, so that capacitive currents are negligible, then the field strength produced by the signal generator loop is E = [47.15 * N * d^2 * I] / D^3 where E = equivalent electric field strength in volts per meter at center of receiver loop, N =number of turns in signal-generator loop, d = diameter of signal-generator loop in meters I = Current in signal-generator loop, in amperes, D = distance from center of signal-generator loop to periphery of receiver loop. unquote I, too would be willing to supply photocopies to anyone interested 73 Andre' N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4856 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 05:50:26 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 05:50:26 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 27098 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 04:51:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 04:51:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yI2X-00008T-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 17:44:21 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yI2W-00008O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 17:44:20 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from pagnell.demon.co.uk ([158.152.83.229]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 10yI2U-000Htn-0K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 16:44:19 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 17:36:40 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "John W Gould" Subject: LF: Hamfest '99: LF Forum MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Having just returned home from Friedrichshafen I thought that I would write a few words about the event for those unable to attend. Hardy, DL1VDL, DARC HF Manager, opened the Forum which was to have been chaired by Peter Bobek, DJ8WL. Walter, DJ2LF, a close friend of Peter spoke of him as a person, his achievements and what he gave back to the hobby. Hardy announced that discussions were underway between DARC and RSGB on a special award (details to follow when they have been finalised), by way of a memorial to Peter, for the first transatlantic 2-way QSO! Walter gave a detailed overview of the challenges and recent successes by German amateurs on 136kHz. There are now about 40 German stations QRV. He spoke of the problems of designing and erecting efficient aerials, and the need to generate stable sources. He mentioned that there was an ongoing discussion with their regulatory authority to try and extend the 20 watt input-power limitation. If my understanding is correct, individual amateurs are going to have to prove to their authorities that input power is the limiting factor, and that EMC problems will not occur at the higher level. Ho-Jo, DJ1ZB, spoke on a range of technical topics concerning the design of his LF station. It was good presentation as I am sure that it would have encouraged others to experiment and become active on the band. Everyone liked his dustbin-mounted loading coil, complete with a well engineered variometer. Hardy had also invited me to say a few words. Like everyone else I wanted to say a few personal words about Peter, how he brought his 160m skills to bear on 136kHz, and how he was a just a really nice person to know. I then spoke a little about the development of 73 / 136kHz in the UK and the importance of the linkages with other EU countries and also, through AMRAD, to the USA. As I don't speak any german, Hardy and Ho-Jo must have done a fine job translating as I got a good aplause at the end. Maybe they said that I had offered to buy everyone a beer! I hope that the above is a fair summary of the event. Given my lack of german perhaps Walter or Ho-Jo can correct or add to what I have written. As a visitor I would like to thank the DARC HF Committee for arranging the Forum, and to the two main presenters for making the whole event, including the evening in the pub that followed, so enjoyable. -- John Gould, G3WKL G3WKL @GB7BEN.#43.GBR.EU g3wkl@pagnell.demon.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23531 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 08:25:38 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 08:25:38 +0100 Received: (qmail 4457 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 07:26:21 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 07:26:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10zEZG-0004aW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:14:02 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10zEZF-0004aR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:14:01 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA04351 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:19:31 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990630092912.2df7750e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:29:12 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Spacer In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: At 10:04 28/06/99 +0100, G3XDV wrote: >Several stations have commented on the strength of the key-up >'spacer' signal from my Tx (yes, I will fix it). Since my current meter >does not read at all when the key is up, it took some time for me to >come up with a measured power level of the leak-through. I found it >was 3W, which gave an antenna current of 210mA, and an ERP of >2mW. (Incidentally, when I first started on 136kHz, my current was >not much more than this and the antenna was smaller!). > >Two UK stations have heard this signal and Rik, ON7YD, can just >read it on his Spectrogram screen. At 176,500km/watt is this a >record?!!! It certainly shows what can be done with an extremely >low ERP. On a quiet day I can see the 'FSK' of Mike's signal 100% on the screen and would even give it a 'O' report, so it should be no problem to have a slow-CW QSO with 2mW ERP (or even less) over a 350km distance. So if you stick to slow-CW you don't need a few 100W and a big antenna to get out of the country ... 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28924 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 08:57:03 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 08:57:03 +0100 Received: (qmail 23425 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 07:57:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 07:57:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10zF3M-0004wo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:45:08 +0100 Received: from artemis.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.126]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10zF3L-0004wj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:45:07 +0100 Received: from pc171.geog.le.ac.uk ([143.210.151.171] helo=kate) by artemis.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10zF3K-00039U-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:45:06 +0100 Message-ID: <000f01bec2cb$6dc68930$ab97d28f@kate.geog.le.ac.uk> From: "Kate Moore" To: "lfgroup" Subject: LF: Weekend report - 2nd attempt at posting Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:37:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Here is John's weekend report. Has the maillist been down for a couple of days? I sent this on Monday and it didn't come back - nor did any other messages from LF maillist. Thanks Kate G4JAI **************************************************************************** ****************** Stations worked here over the weekend on 136kHz using normal speed CW: Friday 25/6 G3YMC (06.39: he was 469QRN, gave me 599). Saturday 26/6 PA0LEG (09.27: 569QRN, 549QRN). Sunday 27/6 G3YMC (07.34: 569, 599), G6RO (08.17: 589, 599), G3AQC (08.46: 559, 579), DJ5DI (09.03: 459QRN, 569), G3XDV (09.50: 589, 599). My operating is more or less back to 'normal' now, although summer low activity/high QRN levels are inevitably taking their toll. Static levels on Friday and, particularly, Saturday were very high here, so very few stations were actually worked. Sunday was much better until the rain came mid-morning and detuned the antenna. I really missed having Harry PA0LQ on the band. We had excellent contacts every weekend, sometimes every morning, and it was always re-assuring to hear Harry's strong signal and note with interest what he was working. Let's hope he manages to either placate those involved, or find an alternative location to operate from. Dick, please pass on my regards and appreciation to Harry, along with those from the others on the reflector. I was very pleased to work two new stations over the weekend - G3AQC and PA0LEG - taking my tally of calls worked 2-way on the band to 65. It was particularly nice to get the call from DJ5DI on Sunday morning and make a very good QSO despite the rising QRN levels. Interestingly, this was only 200Hz away from where DF2PY kept calling, but neither Fred or I experienced any problems. Mike G3XDV is now a very good signal, which shows the value of persistent experimentation and development - well done Mike, you should work plenty of DX now....... Regards John G4GVC near Leicester, IO92JP ** TX: Synth + 400W RF from modified 'G3YXM' Mosfet PA ** ** RX: TS-850S with 3 x CW filters and 0.5ppm TCXO ** ** Ant: Inv-L 60m long, 6m high at feed end, 12m high at far end ** From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24386 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 10:43:26 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 10:43:26 +0100 Received: (qmail 984 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 09:44:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 09:44:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yEnN-0006hK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 14:16:29 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.31] (helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yEnL-0006hE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 14:16:28 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.151.82]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA3D1B; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 15:16:18 +0200 Message-ID: <000701bec09f$bbb6b940$5297b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Cc: "Koos Fockens, PA0KDF" Subject: LF: Measuring field strength Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 15:18:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All
 
You can measure field strength yourself when you  have access to a selective level meter.
 
Connect the meter to an untuned circular loop of one turn.
 
When such a loop with a diameter of D meter is positioned for maximum signal in a field of E volt per meter and frequency 137 kHz a voltage is induced in the loop of e = 0.00225*D^2*E (e in volt; D^2 means D squared, * means multiplication).
To get a useful voltage the loop should not be too small: give it a diameter of 1 m or so.
With a loop of 1.35 m diameter DCF39 produces 8 microvolt at my location.
 
In theory the loop should not be loaded by the meter but at 137 kHz the impedance of the loop is so low that it makes hardly any difference whether the input of the meter is open circuit, 50, 75 or whatever ohms.
 
When you don't have a level meter but do have access to a signal generator with calibrated output you could use it to measure the input/output characteristic of your LF-receiver and then use the receiver as a level meter.
 
I possess a signal generator with a tracking selective level meter type PSM 5 made by Wandel & Goltermann but the instrument is mains fed and very heavy so it cannot be used in the field.
 
I therefore have constructed a small portable battery-fed field strength meter. It is a direct conversion receiver with a tuned and electrically screened ferrite antenna. The receiver has two audio outputs. One is for headphones to tune the meter to the wanted
signal; the other for a digital multimeter set to an AC range. The measured voltage has a linear relation to the field strength.
 
I calibrated the instrument by placing it in a known field generated by a pair of so called Helmholtz-coils connected to a signal generator.
 
When the description of my contraption is ready and circuit diagram and photographs scanned I will put it on the reflector.
 
A very useful article in this respect was written by Heinz Scherz, DJ3ON, in CQ-DL of April 1998 with title "Feldstaerkemessgeraete und Ihre Kalibrierung".
 
Beware: In the centre column of the first page you find a formula for the voltage induced in a loop when placed in an magnetic field. In that formule pi^3 shopuld be pi^2!
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
JO22GD
D.W. Rollema
V.d. Marckstraat 5
2352 RA Leiderdorp
Tel. +31 71 589 27 34
or
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 475 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 11:10:47 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 11:10:47 +0100 Received: (qmail 7177 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 10:11:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 10:11:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10zHCQ-0006MN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:02:38 +0100 Received: from email.mcmail.com ([195.44.0.104] helo=cwcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10zHCO-0006MH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:02:36 +0100 Received: from test3 ([195.44.58.78]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.167.16); Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:02:35 +0100 Message-ID: <010401bec2df$a3f91c20$4e3a2cc3@cwcipapps.net> From: "Peter Bowyer" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000c01bec247$0a026bf0$ab97d28f@kate.geog.le.ac.uk> Subject: LF: Re: testing maillist Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:02:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: > I have not received any messages from the LF maillist for 2 days - including > one I sent from John on Monday. Is there a problem? There was - it's fixed now. Peter G4MJS From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9722 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 11:52:54 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 11:52:54 +0100 Received: (qmail 17418 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 10:53:38 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 10:53:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yoXv-0004Z4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 04:26:55 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from premium.inrete.it ([194.116.9.4] helo=mailer.inrete.it ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yoXt-0004Yx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 04:26:54 +0100 Received: from cel266 (pool17-129.dialup.alpcom.it [194.116.17.129]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA06789 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 05:26:27 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990629042702.02847208@mailer.inrete.it> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 04:27:02 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: LF: 137 kHz RTTY In-reply-to: References: <37754423.2DAE@xtra.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi all, I had the possibility to observe the 137 kHz RTTY signal tonight. It was loud and clear by ear around 0230z (4:30AM CET). Level about 1 to 3 microV. It faded away between 0300z and 0308z, then reappeared at 0310z. QRN is quite strong. Judging from the spectrum it is not an FSK, it seems an MSK (round spectrum). It is very different from the Greek 135.8 kHz signal, which is a 'standard' 75 Bd encrypted FSK and has a clear mark/space spectrum. No sign of the AMRAD beacon, unfortunately. While writing this message it is strong again, at 0316z. If it really is of USA origin, it's impressive ... but now I return to bed. 73 - Marco IK1ODO Rivalta, ITALY JN35SA (N 45 01' 25.6", E 7 31' 09.4") From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2096 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 13:30:17 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 13:30:17 +0100 Received: (qmail 13112 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 12:30:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 12:30:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10ykP9-0001y8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 00:01:35 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10ykP8-0001y3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 00:01:34 +0100 Received: from [195.171.252.218] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10ykP0-0004CZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 00:01:27 +0100 Message-ID: <000801bec1ba$09ac09a0$dafcabc3@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Cluster spots 26/27 June Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 23:59:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: I was not very active this weekend but it looks as though the static was to the East. Sunday looked quite reasonable up to about 1200Z with mostly crackles, no larger crashes until the later afternoon Cluster records:- *** No records found *** [logged under 136.x frequency] G3NYK de GB7DXM 28-Jun 2252Z > 1800.0 G3XDV 27-Jun-1999 1131Z QRS cq 137.73khz 1800.0 G4GVC 27-Jun-1999 0830Z wkg G6RO 137.2khz 1800.0 G4GVC 27-Jun-1999 0829Z wkg G6RO 1800.0 DF2PY 27-Jun-1999 0827Z cq 136.9khz 1800.0 DJ5BV 26-Jun-1999 0728Z 137.700 kHz cq Slow-CW G3NYK de GB7DXM 28-Jun 2252Z > 73 de Alan G3NYK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25015 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 18:39:43 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 18:39:43 +0100 Received: (qmail 13434 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 17:40:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 17:40:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yGyu-00081A-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 16:36:32 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from mailout03.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.151]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yGyt-000815-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 16:36:31 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fwd00.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.160]) by mailout03.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 10yGyl-0006y6-00; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 17:36:23 +0200 Received: (320057114934-0001(btxid)@[62.158.46.122]) by fwd00.btx.dtag.de id ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 17:36:13 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 17:36:13 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: DK7UY@geocities.com Subject: LF: RX loop ready for take-off X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 320057114934-0001@t-online.de From: "DF2PY" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hello lowfers ! First results are promissing.T&L approaching and the loop still has given readable signals from far away LF-bc stns when the vertikal did not. Moved the Loop uo to first floor and can hand-rotate it easily now. But the noise is again building uo due to T&L. That might mean the end to weekend LF activity to me. Btw the rx does not need the xtal filter for the front end with the loop at daytime-we`ll see what happens in the dark. Wkd only dj1rl 2day. 73 de df2py From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18215 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 19:44:10 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 19:44:10 +0100 Received: (qmail 9822 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 18:44:29 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 18:44:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10z22H-0004pG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:51:09 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from premium.inrete.it ([194.116.9.4] helo=mailer.inrete.it ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10z22E-0004p9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:51:07 +0100 Received: from cel266 (pool17-012.dialup.alpcom.it [194.116.17.12]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA00452 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 19:50:49 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990629185121.02a67044@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:51:21 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: LF: 137 kHz RTTY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Hi all, I had the possibility to observe the 137 kHz RTTY signal tonight. It was loud and clear by ear around 0230z (4:30AM CET). Level about 1 to 3 microV. It faded away between 0300z and 0308z, then reappeared at 0310z. QRN is quite strong. Judging from the spectrum it is not an FSK, it seems an MSK (round spectrum). It is very different from the Greek 135.8 kHz signal, which is a 'standard' 75 Bd encrypted FSK and has a clear mark/space spectrum. No sign of the AMRAD beacon, unfortunately. While writing this message it is strong again, at 0316z. If it really is of USA origin, it's impressive ... but now I return to bed. 73 - Marco IK1ODO Rivalta, ITALY JN35SA (N 45 01' 25.6", E 7 31' 09.4") From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17807 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 21:28:48 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 21:28:48 +0100 Received: (qmail 22195 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 20:29:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 20:29:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10zQpz-0003Aa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 21:20:07 +0100 Received: from [143.179.236.31] (helo=Iguanodon.big-orange.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10zQpy-0003AV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 21:20:07 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 ([143.179.151.252]) by Iguanodon.big-orange.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAB1630 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 22:20:01 +0200 Message-ID: <003701bec336$72d710a0$fc97b38f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: PA0LQ QRT Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 22:21:30 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: John, G4GVC, wrote: >I really missed having Harry PA0LQ on the band. We had excellent contacts >every weekend, sometimes every morning, and it was always re-assuring to >hear Harry's strong signal and note with interest what he was working. Let's >hope he manages to either placate those involved, or find an alternative >location to operate from. Dick, please pass on my regards and appreciation >to Harry, along with those from the others on the reflector. All messages have been forwarded to Harry, PA0LQ Dick , PA0SE JO22GD D.W. Rollema V.d. Marckstraat 5 2352 RA Leiderdorp The Netherlands Tel. +31 71 589 27 34 E-mail: d.w.rollema@gironet.nl or pa0se@amsat.org From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3482 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 22:41:19 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 22:41:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 1126 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 21:42:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 21:42:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yMaD-0002yo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 22:35:25 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout09.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.157]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 10yMaC-0002yj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 22:35:24 +0100 Received: from fwd10.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.170]) by mailout09.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 10yMa8-00014q-00; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 23:35:20 +0200 Received: (087321565-0001(btxid)@[193.158.170.232]) by fwd10.btx.dtag.de id ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 23:35:16 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 23:35:16 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Delayed Weekend Report X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-online.de From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sender: Dear all, and especially PA0LQ: On June 19th 1999 at 07.20 gmt on abt 136,8 kHz hrd PA0LQ RST 529 just signing off with G4GVC! Therefore his removable antenna, as described by PA0SE recently, must be quite effective. G4GVC has not been heard here. My QTH JN68GN, 120 km ENE of Munich 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB