From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 721 invoked from network); 31 Mar 1999 23:50:21 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 1999 23:50:21 +0100 Received: (qmail 6418 invoked from network); 31 Mar 1999 22:50:35 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 31 Mar 1999 22:50:35 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10STn3-0003hy-01; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:48:54 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA14425 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:47:55 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA14339 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:23:08 GMT Received: from mars.cableol.net ([194.168.4.224]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10STNR-0003Il-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:22:25 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from miranda-2.cableol.net by mars.cableol.net; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/22Feb96-0403PM) id AA29281; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:22:34 +0100 Message-ID: <37029DC7.45C2F33B@cableol.co.uk> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:12:23 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Weekend report 27-29 March References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Mike G3XDV wrote: > . . . . . > Saturday [27] March > > Heard G3YXM (599), PA0LQ (549), G4GVC (599), G3KEV (599), > GW4ALG using his balloon-supported 20m vertical (599 - best yet), > EI0CF (549). And a very weak signal ending in 'PY', perhaps > DF2PY. Thank you for the fine report, Mike. I didn't have much spare time for operating last weekend - which is a pity because the ground was dry on Saturday, and the balloon-supported vertical seemed to be working well. For those interested, my log for the 27th reads: 06:53 PA0LQ sent 559/received 429 (always a good signal here) 07:49 G3OLB 579/589 (now returned from his hols) 11:34 DF0WD 439/449 (our second QSO) 11:50 EI0CF 579/449 (nice to work you again, Finbar!) 21:10 PA0AWN 459/519 (a new one) I'm currently making a new support for my experimental vertical so that it will be easier (and safer) to put up and take down the basic 12 m mast in my small garden. Up until recently, I have been pushing up a section of aluminium ladder with the 10 m fibreglass pole lashed to the top. This has been a risky business - especially in windy weather! Instead, I am installing a 4 m length of 50 mm x 100 mm planed timber up against the children's garden swing (which is also made of wood). The 10 m pole is to be fitted to a light-weight wooden runner that will slide into tracks fitted to the 100 mm face of the timber. This way, I only need to raise the lightweight 10 m pole and place it alongside the timber. I will then push the runner (+ pole) up the track and lock the runner into position. If it works, I'll be testing the new configuration very early on Saturday morning. That's the news from Chepstow. Skeds welcome (in addition to weekends, I will be QRV during the day April 12th - 16th). Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG 01291 625977 (+44 1291 625977) steve.rawlings@cableol.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23640 invoked from network); 1 Apr 1999 07:27:05 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Apr 1999 07:27:05 +0100 Received: (qmail 17382 invoked from network); 1 Apr 1999 06:27:22 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Apr 1999 06:27:22 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10SVez-0005sc-00; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 01:48:41 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA15772 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:47:57 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA15757 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:45:23 GMT Received: from mcclure.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.31]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10SVbm-0005q6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 01:45:22 +0100 Received: from p157.lifford1.tinet.ie ([159.134.235.157] helo=beachwood.tinet.ie) by mcclure.tinet.ie with smtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 10SVbj-0005BK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 01:45:19 +0100 From: "finbar o'connor" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Weekend report 27-29 March Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 01:47:46 +0100 Message-ID: <01be7bd9$42ae6e40$9deb869f@beachwood.tinet.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hi Steve, I was delighted to work you , last weekend. My noise level has reduced somewhat, but not totally away, but it was great hearing your signals again. I'm now using 100 volts on the IRFP450's, which on key down , drops to 75 volts, no fan, and only slighly warm to the finger when I prod it, have semi-retired the valve amp, perhaps if I try 4 mosfet's rather than the present 2 , in parallel, I will manage to blow them up , hi hi. 73's Finbar EI0CF -----Original Message----- From: Steve Rawlings To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 31 March 1999 23:54 Subject: Re: LF: Weekend report 27-29 March >Mike G3XDV wrote: > >> . . . . . >> Saturday [27] March >> >> Heard G3YXM (599), PA0LQ (549), G4GVC (599), G3KEV (599), >> GW4ALG using his balloon-supported 20m vertical (599 - best yet), >> EI0CF (549). And a very weak signal ending in 'PY', perhaps >> DF2PY. > >Thank you for the fine report, Mike. > >I didn't have much spare time for operating last weekend - which is a >pity because the ground was dry on Saturday, and the balloon-supported >vertical seemed to be working well. For those interested, my log for >the 27th reads: >06:53 PA0LQ sent 559/received 429 (always a good signal here) > >07:49 G3OLB 579/589 (now returned from his hols) >11:34 DF0WD 439/449 (our second QSO) >11:50 EI0CF 579/449 (nice to work you again, Finbar!) >21:10 PA0AWN 459/519 (a new one) > >I'm currently making a new support for my experimental vertical so that >it will be easier (and safer) to put up and take down the basic 12 m >mast in my small garden. Up until recently, I have been pushing up a >section of aluminium ladder with the 10 m fibreglass pole lashed to the >top. This has been a risky business - especially in windy weather! > >Instead, I am installing a 4 m length of 50 mm x 100 mm planed timber >up against the children's garden swing (which is also made of wood). >The 10 m pole is to be fitted to a light-weight wooden runner that will >slide into tracks fitted to the 100 mm face of the timber. This way, I >only need to raise the lightweight 10 m pole and place it alongside the >timber. I will then push the runner (+ pole) up the track and lock the >runner into position. If it works, I'll be testing the new >configuration very early on Saturday morning. > >That's the news from Chepstow. Skeds welcome (in addition to weekends, >I will be QRV during the day April 12th - 16th). > >Regards to all, >Steve GW4ALG >01291 625977 (+44 1291 625977) >steve.rawlings@cableol.co.uk > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23643 invoked from network); 1 Apr 1999 07:27:06 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Apr 1999 07:27:06 +0100 Received: (qmail 17385 invoked from network); 1 Apr 1999 06:27:22 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Apr 1999 06:27:22 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10SUFY-0004J7-00; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:18:20 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA14568 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:18:17 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA14544 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:15:10 GMT Received: from m1.boston.juno.com ([205.231.100.199]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10SUBl-0004H4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:14:25 +0100 Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m1.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D63UXSEN; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:53:45 EST X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: aa3id@juno.com, W3HMS@aol.com, ksmith4707@aol.com, buzn3gkp@aol.com, riese-k3djc@juno.com, flowew3mmv@aol.com, wa3usg@compuserve.com Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:52:32 -0500 Subject: LF: Fw: Fw: ARLB022 ARRL rebuts late-filed power industry arguments in LF Message-ID: <19990331.175233.-94083.5.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-70 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Bob RIESE" Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Here is a bit of info from state side on the progress of amateur LF assignments and so it goes Bob ARRL Bulletin 22 ARLB022 >From ARRL Headquarters Newington CT March 31, 1999 To all radio amateurs SB QST ARL ARLB022 ARLB022 ARRL rebuts late-filed power industry arguments in LF proceeding The ARRL has rebutted assertions that amateur LF allocations at 136 and 160 kHz could lead to interference with utility-operated power line carrier (PLC) systems. The unallocated and unlicensed Part 15 PLC systems are used by electric utilities to send control signals, data and voice. At the same time, the League urged the FCC to issue a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking to open the LF bands up to amateurs. Last October, the League petitioned the FCC to create low-frequency Amateur Radio allocations at 135.7 to 137.8 kHz and 160 to 190 kHz. The ARRL proposed permitting CW, SSB, RTTY/data, and image emissions at a maximum power level of 2 W effective isotropic radiated power. The utilities' PLCs operate between 10 and 490 kHz. The comments in question--from four parties including Commonwealth Edison and Mark Simon--arrived at the FCC well beyond the December 23, 1998, comment and the January 7, 1999 reply comment deadlines. They also appear to be the only comments filed on behalf of the power industry. The League has requested that the FCC strike the late comments from the record, but it also rebutted their substance in case the FCC decides to accept them anyway. The League debunked Simon's suggestion that ham interference could lead to dire consequences to unlicensed PLC systems. The League said Simon fails to explain why a marginal-level amateur signal would cause problems ''where loud static crashes in the same bands do not.'' The League said PLC systems already have been shown to operate effectively ''in an environment of extremely high power government stations using thousands of watts of EIRP.'' The League also took ComEd to task for suggesting that hams be obliged to protect PLC systems against interference. The ARRL pointed out that PLCs have ''no incumbent allocation status'' and are not entitled to protection from licensed systems. The ARRL acknowledged existence of the PLC systems in its October petition and provided a technical analysis indicating that amateur interference to PLCs was unlikely. The League suggested that the utilities make available an industry database of PLC operating parameters that hams could consult as a guide to avoid interference. It concluded that the FCC should not make allocations decisions ''based in whole or in part on the presence or absence of Part 15 devices in a particular band segment'' since the devices have no inherent allocation status. The League said it remains willing to address any interference cases that might arise and urged the FCC to issue a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking on the ARRL's request ''without further delay.'' NNNN /EX ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29750 invoked from network); 1 Apr 1999 11:43:08 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Apr 1999 11:43:08 +0100 Received: (qmail 22945 invoked from network); 1 Apr 1999 10:43:39 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Apr 1999 10:43:39 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10SetX-0003mk-00; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:40:19 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA01071 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:32:05 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA01067 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:32:03 GMT Received: from bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ([195.186.1.75]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10SesI-0003jP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:39:02 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from phonakcom.ch ([195.186.13.166]) by bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ( with ESMTP id AAA3B31 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:38:55 +0200 Message-ID: <37033EDB.63B6BC32@phonakcom.ch> Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 11:39:39 +0200 From: "Toni Bdrtschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: AF-filters and CW versus SlowCW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >From HB9ASB, JN36pt Today I've made some comparisons of different Audio-filter settings and CW against Slow CW. All test were made blind and under real band-noise conditions with the main receiving antenna (low noise, no QRN) and a QRP-TX with a separate antenna. Here the main results (RX Harris RF590): 1. Good audio filters with BW from 10 to 50Hz may give a 6dB advantage above the receiver without Audio-filter (250Hz IF). A 150Hz passive LC-filter was somewhere in between. 2. There is no big difference between different BW in the range from 10 to 50Hz. Although I got the impression that 10Hz was already to small and 20Hz the optimum in my case (Timewave DSP599zx) 3. Slow CW with the Spectrogram (3sec dots) gives an advantage of about 10dB above aural CW with narrow audio filtering. 4. I can confirm the optimal settings of Spectrogram found by Marco, IK1ODO 5. There is no clear advantage of using longer dot-periods (e.g. 10s). These findings differ from theoretical values but it proves how good our ear-brain detector works. 73 de Toni From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20086 invoked from network); 1 Apr 1999 13:22:04 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Apr 1999 13:22:04 +0100 Received: (qmail 4438 invoked from network); 1 Apr 1999 12:22:35 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Apr 1999 12:22:35 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10SgQf-0004kT-01; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:18:37 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA01940 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:11:34 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA01936 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:11:32 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10SgQV-0004kO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:18:27 +0100 Received: from mail.uni-kiel.d400.de (actually srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de) by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:17:47 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de by mail.uni-kiel.d400.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA10112; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:17:45 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37036390.D7B84D15@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 14:16:16 +0200 From: "P. W. Schnoor" Organization: Clinic of Nephrology, University of Kiel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586) X-Accept-Language: de, en To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: AF-filters and CW versus SlowCW References: <37033EDB.63B6BC32@phonakcom.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Gang, Hi Toni, "Toni Brtschi" wrote: > Today I've made some comparisons of different Audio-filter settings and > CW against Slow CW. All test were made blind and under real band-noise > conditions with the main receiving antenna (low noise, no QRN) and a > QRP-TX with a separate antenna. Here the main results (RX Harris RF590): Very interesting experiments! I do not understand "blind" in *this* case? > 1. Good audio filters with BW from 10 to 50Hz may give a 6dB advantage > above the receiver without Audio-filter (250Hz IF). A 150Hz passive > LC-filter was somewhere in between. > > 2. There is no big difference between different BW in the range from 10 > to 50Hz. Although I got the impression that 10Hz was already to small > and 20Hz the optimum in my case (Timewave DSP599zx) Our ear-brain system is able to decode better if a small amount of noise is present, probably since it's working at the edge to quantum mechanics with specific selfmade "noises" (the pathologic case is known as "Tinnitus aurium"). There are some scientific articles dealing with hearing CW in noise. One of the better ones will be found there: http://www.nitehawk.com/rasmit/br_cpy.html. Furthermore Peter, SM7CMY got his MD about this stuff; I have a copy. > 3. [...] > 4. I can confirm the optimal settings of Spectrogram found by Marco, > IK1ODO > > 5. There is no clear advantage of using longer dot-periods (e.g. 10s). I cannot confirm this. But I have to fight against pulsatile and Lux-Effect noise and I'm not using Spectrogram. 3 sec. dot length often is too short here. > These findings differ from theoretical values but it proves how good our > ear-brain detector works. They differ from practical experiences working under *different* conditions. 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12101 invoked from network); 1 Apr 1999 15:10:39 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Apr 1999 15:10:39 +0100 Received: (qmail 14635 invoked from network); 1 Apr 1999 14:11:11 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Apr 1999 14:11:11 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Si7W-0005wH-01; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:06:58 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA02723 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:59:56 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA02719 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:59:54 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Si7J-0005wB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:06:45 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10Si7A-0002s2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:06:36 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Thu, 01 Apr 1999 14:51:21 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:51:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: AF-filters and CW versus SlowCW Priority: normal In-reply-to: <37033EDB.63B6BC32@phonakcom.ch> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >From HB9ASB, JN36pt > > Today I've made some comparisons of different Audio-filter settings and > CW against Slow CW. All test were made blind and under real band-noise > conditions with the main receiving antenna (low noise, no QRN) and a > QRP-TX with a separate antenna. Here the main results (RX Harris RF590): > > 1. Good audio filters with BW from 10 to 50Hz may give a 6dB advantage > above the receiver without Audio-filter (250Hz IF). A 150Hz passive > LC-filter was somewhere in between. > > 2. There is no big difference between different BW in the range from 10 > to 50Hz. Although I got the impression that 10Hz was already to small > and 20Hz the optimum in my case (Timewave DSP599zx) > > 3. Slow CW with the Spectrogram (3sec dots) gives an advantage of about > 10dB above aural CW with narrow audio filtering. > > 4. I can confirm the optimal settings of Spectrogram found by Marco, > IK1ODO > > 5. There is no clear advantage of using longer dot-periods (e.g. 10s). > > > These findings differ from theoretical values but it proves how good our > ear-brain detector works. This is most interesting. I note that Toni agrees with Marco's assumption that there is no benefit using longer dots - I presume that the averaging control was altered to the optimum for each of these measurements, to perhaps 15 for 3s dots and 50 for 10s. My experience on-air is that static bursts are very much reduced (or even eliminated) when setting the averaging control to a higher value. It would seem reasonable, then, for 10s dots to work better under noisy conditions than 3s. Any comments? Mike From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9404 invoked from network); 1 Apr 1999 17:23:49 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Apr 1999 17:23:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 11188 invoked from network); 1 Apr 1999 16:24:10 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Apr 1999 16:24:10 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Sk6s-0007V9-01; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:14:26 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA03572 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:07:25 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA03568 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:07:23 GMT Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Sk6c-0007V3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:14:11 +0100 Received: from mail.uni-kiel.d400.de (actually srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de) by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:13:45 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de by mail.uni-kiel.d400.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA23975; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:13:42 +0200 Message-ID: <37039B43.11DA678D@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 18:13:55 +0200 From: "Peter W. Schnoor" Organization: University of Kiel, Clinic of Nephrology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: AF-filters and CW versus SlowCW References: <37033EDB.63B6BC32@phonakcom.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Gang, For those who are interested in that topic, the MD thesis (Doctoral Dissertation) I have mentioned is: Title: Signal Detection in Noise, with special reference to telegraphy. Author: Peter Montnemery. From: Department of Otorhinolarynglogy, Head and Neck Surgery, University Hospital, Lund, Sweden. Lund, 1994. Language: English (!), 120 pages. 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1453 invoked from network); 1 Apr 1999 19:17:46 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Apr 1999 19:17:46 +0100 Received: (qmail 25135 invoked from network); 1 Apr 1999 18:18:06 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Apr 1999 18:18:06 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Slw2-0000Xd-01; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:11:23 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA04200 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:02:59 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA04196 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:02:57 GMT Received: from bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ([195.186.1.75]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10SluP-0000U7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:09:41 +0100 Received: from phonakcom.ch ([195.186.13.123]) by bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ( with ESMTP id AAA21EC for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:09:33 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3703A879.97EAE676@phonakcom.ch> Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 19:10:17 +0200 From: "Toni Bdrtschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: AF-filters and CW versus SlowCW References: <37033EDB.63B6BC32@phonakcom.ch> <37036390.D7B84D15@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >From HB9ASB, JN36pt Here some additional remarks concerning the tests: - The term "blind" means that the Test-TX was sending automatically and I did not know its text in advance. - When testing with longer dot periods (10s) I changed the dwell time and the averaging control to higher values in order to find an optimal setting. May be the result will be different under heavy QRN or QRM (Lux-effect) conditions and show an advantage for longer dot-periods. And it is also possible that I could get other results with other type of receivers. 73 de Toni From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1853 invoked from network); 1 Apr 1999 19:20:08 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Apr 1999 19:20:08 +0100 Received: (qmail 5554 invoked from network); 1 Apr 1999 18:20:39 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Apr 1999 18:20:39 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10SlyL-0000ZE-00; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:13:45 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA04223 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:05:40 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA04219 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:05:38 GMT Received: from premium.inrete.it ([194.116.9.4] helo=mailer.inrete.it ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Slvg-0000VI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:12:06 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from pc-lab (pcttym05.inrete.it [194.116.9.240]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA28228 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:09:56 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990401190740.007318d0@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 19:07:40 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: RTTY signal around 137 In-reply-to: <3.0.3.32.19990330195835.006f0b4c@mailer.inrete.it> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello all, Renato IK1QFK was able to check the direction of the 137 kHz RTTY signal this early morning. Around 0500z he found a good null in N/S axis, so the signal seems to come from E or W +/- 20 degree. The signal disappears after 0630z, so I think the eastern direction is to exclude. Also the western direction is puzzling ... I have little knowledge of propagation in 160m, but I supposed that a grey-line signal should come from NNW or so. Has anyone an extimated direction? Again, is any of our American readers able to receive it? Renato will check again in next mornings, trying to compare the observed direction with that of DBF39 and the Greek Navy station. 73 - Marco IK1ODO Marco Bruno - IK1ODO spin@inrete.it SPIN Electronics - www.spin-it.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6642 invoked from network); 1 Apr 1999 19:47:19 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Apr 1999 19:47:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 28688 invoked from network); 1 Apr 1999 18:47:39 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Apr 1999 18:47:39 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10SmN8-0000s5-00; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:39:22 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA04411 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:32:32 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA04407 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:32:31 GMT Received: from m1.boston.juno.com ([205.231.100.199]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10SmMx-0000ry-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:39:11 +0100 Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m1.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D65YHSWK; Thu, 01 Apr 1999 13:34:30 EST X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:32:48 -0500 Subject: Re: LF: RTTY signal around 137 Message-ID: <19990401.133325.-92413.13.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,5-10 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Bob RIESE" Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello all I have been hearing the signal .It becomes audible around local dusk and has a lot of slow QSB until around 0200 GMT it then is quite strong about an S9. The other nite I was testing a 35 turn 4 ft. loop located outside and the null off the end of the loop was N/S At the time I figgured it was over the pole .. Bob K3DJC N 39.56 W 76.43 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22591 invoked from network); 1 Apr 1999 21:33:42 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Apr 1999 21:33:42 +0100 Received: (qmail 6475 invoked from network); 1 Apr 1999 20:34:02 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Apr 1999 20:34:02 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10So6a-0002VN-00; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 21:30:24 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA05523 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 22:23:22 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA05507 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 22:23:16 GMT Received: from public2.thorcom.com ([194.75.130.20] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10So65-0002Ur-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 21:29:53 +0100 Received: from premium.inrete.it ([194.116.9.4] helo=mailer.inrete.it ident=root) by public2.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #2) id 10So7W-0003qs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 21:31:22 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from pc-lab (pcttym02.inrete.it [194.116.9.246]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA08783 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 22:21:52 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990401212222.006e97e0@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 21:22:22 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: AF-filters and CW versus SlowCW In-reply-to: References: <37033EDB.63B6BC32@phonakcom.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org At 14.51 01/04/99 +0100, Mike Dennison wrote: >This is most interesting. I note that Toni agrees with Marco's >assumption that there is no benefit using longer dots - I presume >that the averaging control was altered to the optimum for each of >these measurements, to perhaps 15 for 3s dots and 50 for 10s. > >My experience on-air is that static bursts are very much reduced >(or even eliminated) when setting the averaging control to a higher >value. It would seem reasonable, then, for 10s dots to work better >under noisy conditions than 3s. > I agree. The 3 sec time is optimal with white noise QRN or short 'cracks', but many time I would have preferred to have 6 or 10 seconds when receiving with Lux or heavy statics. My personal preference is to have no smoothing, and use 300 msec dwell time. My eye-brain SW likes to do the smoothing by itself ... ;-) --------------- My loading coil is restored, I'm QRV for the weekend. 73 to all Marco IK1ODO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1442 invoked from network); 1 Apr 1999 22:15:28 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Apr 1999 22:15:28 +0100 Received: (qmail 11444 invoked from network); 1 Apr 1999 21:15:50 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Apr 1999 21:15:50 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Sojd-00034S-00; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 22:10:45 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA05807 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 23:03:55 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA05803 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 23:03:53 GMT Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10SojO-00034C-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 22:10:30 +0100 Received: from mail.uni-kiel.d400.de (actually srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de) by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Thu, 1 Apr 1999 23:10:24 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de by mail.uni-kiel.d400.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id XAA03973; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 23:10:19 +0200 Message-ID: <3703E0C9.78B405BF@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 23:10:33 +0200 From: "Peter W. Schnoor" Organization: University of Kiel, Clinic of Nephrology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: AF-filters and CW versus SlowCW References: <37033EDB.63B6BC32@phonakcom.ch> <3.0.3.32.19990401212222.006e97e0@mailer.inrete.it> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Gang, M. Bruno wrote: > [...] > I agree. The 3 sec time is optimal with white noise QRN or short > 'cracks', but many time I would have preferred to have 6 or 10 seconds > when receiving with Lux or heavy statics. Agreed. I found that 4-5 sec. with increased gaps (a little bit) often is easier to "decode" with my FFT application (SPECGRAM2 compiled for LINUX, console and X). > My personal preference is to have no smoothing, and use 300 msec dwell > time. My eye-brain SW likes to do the smoothing by itself ... ;-) I don't know what "dwell" really means in this topic but I think it's the time of data collection and folding/averaging in background. What means "smoothing"? In time or frequency domain? If it means "data windowing" the WELCH algorithm outperforms the other (Rectangular, Gaussian, Parzen, Hanning, etc.) since it does not "smear" too much, especially in case of LORAN-C background. > My loading coil is restored, I'm QRV for the weekend. Fine! Hope to meet you this weekend, may be in "normal" CW mode... Until now I did not hear any signal from Sweden. May be a "1st of April" joke? But there are some strong carriers tuning at different frequencies. Heard I5MXX (?) this evening *very* weak in "normal" CW. 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10128 invoked from network); 2 Apr 1999 07:19:33 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 2 Apr 1999 07:19:33 +0100 Received: (qmail 2688 invoked from network); 2 Apr 1999 06:19:55 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Apr 1999 06:19:55 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10SxCX-00002h-00 for dave@picks.force9.co.uk; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 07:13:09 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA08426 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 05:04:46 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA08422 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 05:04:44 GMT Received: from ah-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.154] helo=hpamgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Sw7t-00087i-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 06:04:17 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.1) id AAA11363 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 00:03:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 23:57:43 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: Re: LF: RTTY signal around 137 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199904020004_MC2-704E-CF35@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Lowfers, the RTTY signal on 137 kHz was (is) quite strong this morning, I still can hear it right now (at 04.50 UTC). I made some measurements on it: Mark: 136.949 kHz Space: 127.025 kHz Shift: 76 Hz Baudrate: 100 Bd (?) Signal was -115 dBm (at 75 Ohm) about half a hour ago, then it went down to -125 dBm, right now strong fading plus/minus nearly 10 dBm. Currently I am unable to meaure the direction (but I might activate my big ferrite antenna during the weekend). Best 73, happy Easter holidays (I found some eggs made of ceramics at the end of my antenna ...) Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8274 invoked from network); 2 Apr 1999 09:12:34 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 2 Apr 1999 09:12:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 18111 invoked from network); 2 Apr 1999 08:13:09 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Apr 1999 08:13:09 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Syzl-0000rR-01; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:08:05 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA09513 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:08:04 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA09509 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:08:02 GMT Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10SyzN-0000rO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:07:43 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA07321 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:11:48 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990402090555.095f140e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 09:05:55 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: slow CW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Last night (01-04) arround 19.30UT I saw a very weak QRS signal at a few Hz above 137700. I got only the end of the transmission : KR K Little later I saw Toni (HB9ASB) CQ-ing at 137720. Anyone knows who the 'KR K' was ? 73, Rik PS : haven't heard the 137kHz RTTY now for some days (during the evening) Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9865 invoked from network); 2 Apr 1999 09:22:25 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 2 Apr 1999 09:22:25 +0100 Received: (qmail 19304 invoked from network); 2 Apr 1999 08:23:00 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Apr 1999 08:23:00 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10SzAs-0000w1-01; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:19:34 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA09611 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:19:39 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA09607 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:19:37 GMT Received: from hil-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.135]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10SzAT-0000vf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:19:09 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from root@localhost) by hil-img-5.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id DAA00884 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 03:18:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 03:17:04 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: Re: LF: RTTY signal around 137 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199904020317_MC2-7053-5FBA@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Lowfers, this morning I was able to record the signal strength of the RTTY on 137 kHz signal when it faded out into the noise. This was around 05.24 UTC. Maybe someone can correlate this fading with the path of the gray-line. If you want to see the time vs. signal strength plot, have a look at http://www.dk8kw.home.pages.de Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14190 invoked from network); 2 Apr 1999 09:55:02 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 2 Apr 1999 09:55:02 +0100 Received: (qmail 22380 invoked from network); 2 Apr 1999 08:55:25 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Apr 1999 08:55:25 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10SzgR-0001BA-00; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:52:11 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA09760 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:51:55 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA09756 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:51:53 GMT Received: from post.interalpha.co.uk ([195.26.224.18] helo=post.interalpha.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Szfr-0001B1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:51:35 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from sot-mod52.interalpha.net (sot-mod52.interalpha.net [195.26.225.52]) by post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id JAA03987 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:52:01 +0100 Message-ID: <199904020852.JAA03987@post.interalpha.net> X-Sender: drassew2@post.interalpha.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 08:53:05 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Andy Talbot" Subject: LF: SlowCW and Dwell periods Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >I don't know what "dwell" really means in this topic but I >think it's the time of data collection and folding/averaging >in background. What means "smoothing"? In time or frequency >domain? If it means "data windowing" the WELCH algorithm >outperforms the other (Rectangular, Gaussian, Parzen, >Hanning, etc.) since it does not "smear" too much, >especially in case of LORAN-C background. My understanding of the GRAM software is that the 'dwell' time is just a period of wasted time idling between performing an FFT on each set of data rather than increasing the FFT length. If this is the case then there is no advantage at all in going to longer dot lengths USING THE GRAM SOFTWARE as there is no way of further narrowing the receive bandwidth with a narrower FFT bin. In which case alll the power being transmitted during each dwell period is going to waste. I seem to recall that the author of the programme quickly included the dwell option at the request of LF operators, suspect that but not being particularly interested in the radio related aspects of that software did not try to take it any further. I may be wrong, but the dwell option appeared so quickly that a simple delay is the most likely route for generating it. The lowest bandwidth therefore possible is from 8000 Hz sampling with a 16384 Point FFT giving a bin size of 0.49 Hz and therefore a bandwidth of close to 1 Hz using a Hamming window. Therefore, with 1 Hz BW the 3 seconds dots everyone seems to have settled on as being optimum will fill 3 FFT samples ans show up clearly as a line of three pixels or more depending on what overlap has been incorporated in the data sampling. But there will NEVER be any advantage in going to longer dots unless the sampling rate is reduced (will GRAM allow 5513 Hz sampling ?) or the FFT size can be increased above 16384. I use the DSP EVM board to mix the audio down to DC and then data reduce / filter to arbitrarily low bandwidths to give the full advantage of going to longer dot. periods with no wasted dwell time. The current limit is in the region of a reciptocal-minute bandwidth, around 10mHz, meaning dot lengths of 40 - 60 seconds could be used and it would be a straightforward job to increase the decimation further. GRAM does not use the mix down and decimate technique, but it just may be possible for the author to include a longer FFT routine as an option if asked. I have seen million point FFTs processed on Pentium PCs in less than one second, so it is certainly possible! It is also possible to ignore alternate samples of the input data, giving an effectively reduced input sampling rate - that is what decimation is all about - but the audio must then be pre-filtered to prevent any alliasing terms being generated as no filtering is being done in software. However, if a CW receiver with a narrow filter giving an audio output in the region of say 500 - 900 Hz is used, there is no reason why the 8kHz sampling can't be decimated by four giving an effective sampling of 2kHz, and four times the resolution bandwidth with the same 16K FFT. That is a 6dB S/N improvement immediately for a software mod as straighforward as including a dwell time. 6dB of capability is being wasted anyway, using these non-coherent energy detection techniques, but that's another story ............... Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17177 invoked from network); 2 Apr 1999 10:14:56 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 2 Apr 1999 10:14:56 +0100 Received: (qmail 24269 invoked from network); 2 Apr 1999 09:15:20 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Apr 1999 09:15:20 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Szyb-0001Hq-00; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:10:57 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA09878 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:10:57 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA09874 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:10:55 GMT Received: from mta1-gui.server.ntli.net ([194.168.54.142] helo=mta1-svc.virgin.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10SzyI-0001Hj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:10:38 +0100 Received: from virgin.net ([194.168.67.107]) by mta1-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990402091026.NIKF16164.mta1-svc@virgin.net> for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:10:26 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37048A32.307E0916@virgin.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 10:13:22 +0100 From: "Stewart Bryant" Organization: . X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: SlowCW and Dwell periods References: <199904020852.JAA03987@post.interalpha.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Idid ask for this some time ago, and Richard sent me the sources for an older version of the code, explaining that it was actually a hard problem, but if I wanted to have a go etc... The issue is that we have to move from 32 bit calculations to 64 bit calculations in the most heavily optimised section of the code. I did take a quick look at code in the FFT butterfly, and it looked quite hard. The improvement in the bandwidth would also be of use in doing doppler propagation studies as per the RADcom article of about 2 years ago. Regards Stewart Andy Talbot wrote: > >I don't know what "dwell" really means in this topic but I > >think it's the time of data collection and folding/averaging > >in background. What means "smoothing"? In time or frequency > >domain? If it means "data windowing" the WELCH algorithm > >outperforms the other (Rectangular, Gaussian, Parzen, > >Hanning, etc.) since it does not "smear" too much, > >especially in case of LORAN-C background. > > My understanding of the GRAM software is that the 'dwell' time is just a > period of wasted time idling between performing an FFT on each set of data > rather than increasing the FFT length. If this is the case then there is no > advantage at all in going to longer dot lengths USING THE GRAM SOFTWARE as > there is no way of further narrowing the receive bandwidth with a narrower > FFT bin. In which case alll the power being transmitted during each dwell > period is going to waste. I seem to recall that the author of the > programme quickly included the dwell option at the request of LF operators, > suspect that but not being particularly interested in the radio related > aspects of that software did not try to take it any further. I may be > wrong, but the dwell option appeared so quickly that a simple delay is the > most likely route for generating it. > > The lowest bandwidth therefore possible is from 8000 Hz sampling with a > 16384 Point FFT giving a bin size of 0.49 Hz and therefore a bandwidth of > close to 1 Hz using a Hamming window. Therefore, with 1 Hz BW the 3 > seconds dots everyone seems to have settled on as being optimum will fill 3 > FFT samples ans show up clearly as a line of three pixels or more depending > on what overlap has been incorporated in the data sampling. But there will > NEVER be any advantage in going to longer dots unless the sampling rate is > reduced (will GRAM allow 5513 Hz sampling ?) or the FFT size can be > increased above 16384. > > I use the DSP EVM board to mix the audio down to DC and then data reduce / > filter to arbitrarily low bandwidths to give the full advantage of going to > longer dot. periods with no wasted dwell time. The current limit is in the > region of a reciptocal-minute bandwidth, around 10mHz, meaning dot lengths > of 40 - 60 seconds could be used and it would be a straightforward job to > increase the decimation further. > > GRAM does not use the mix down and decimate technique, but it just may be > possible for the author to include a longer FFT routine as an option if > asked. I have seen million point FFTs processed on Pentium PCs in less than > one second, so it is certainly possible! It is also possible to ignore > alternate samples of the input data, giving an effectively reduced input > sampling rate - that is what decimation is all about - but the audio must > then be pre-filtered to prevent any alliasing terms being generated as no > filtering is being done in software. > However, if a CW receiver with a narrow filter giving an audio output in the > region of say 500 - 900 Hz is used, there is no reason why the 8kHz sampling > can't be decimated by four giving an effective sampling of 2kHz, and four > times the resolution bandwidth with the same 16K FFT. That is a 6dB S/N > improvement immediately for a software mod as straighforward as including a > dwell time. > > 6dB of capability is being wasted anyway, using these non-coherent energy > detection techniques, but that's another story ............... > > Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 609 invoked from network); 2 Apr 1999 11:57:19 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 2 Apr 1999 11:57:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 6150 invoked from network); 2 Apr 1999 10:57:54 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Apr 1999 10:57:54 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10T1a6-00020F-00; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:53:46 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA10356 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:53:57 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA10352 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:53:55 GMT Received: from hil-img-4.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.134]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10T1ZZ-00020A-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:53:13 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from root@localhost) by hil-img-4.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id FAA18974 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 05:52:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 05:52:06 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: SlowCW and Dwell periods To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199904020552_MC2-7053-64B1@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Andy, G4JNT gives some good insight into what the FFT techniqe is really doing. I am not sure, but maybe who is able to program might try to get hold of the Gram-sourcecode and modify it to our needs. I have another point on my wishlist for the Gram-Software (or a similar one): Take advangate of both channels, feed the signal from the big antenna into one channel, feed the signal from a second receiver with, for example an indoor antenna connected to it, to the second channel, add them with inverted phase and get rid of all that man-made noise that is generated in the vicinity of the receiving antenna. I know, that this idea is not new, it had been realizized on the RF side but I don't know of a software that performs this job in the audio-frequency range (besides programs such as "Cool Edit" that allow noise reduction post processing jobs doing the same, howver, not online). A challange for those excellent programmers out there? Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1362 invoked from network); 2 Apr 1999 12:04:36 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 2 Apr 1999 12:04:36 +0100 Received: (qmail 7023 invoked from network); 2 Apr 1999 11:05:12 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Apr 1999 11:05:12 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10T1hI-00021j-00; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:01:12 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA10457 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:00:55 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA10453 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:00:53 GMT Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10T1gW-00021Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:00:33 +0100 Received: from mail.uni-kiel.d400.de (actually srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de) by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:59:39 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de by mail.uni-kiel.d400.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA15423; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:59:37 +0200 Message-ID: <3704A326.C70944EA@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 12:59:50 +0200 From: "Peter W. Schnoor" Organization: University of Kiel, Clinic of Nephrology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: SlowCW and Dwell periods References: <199904020852.JAA03987@post.interalpha.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Gang, Andy Talbot wrote: > My understanding of the GRAM software is that the 'dwell' time is just a > period of wasted time idling between performing an FFT on each set of data > rather than increasing the FFT length. If this is the case then there is no > advantage at all in going to longer dot lengths USING THE GRAM SOFTWARE as > there is no way of further narrowing the receive bandwidth with a narrower > FFT bin. In which case alll the power being transmitted during each dwell > period is going to waste. This was one of my misgivings. No further comment... Once more: What means "smoothing" in case of running GRAM ??? > [...] > The lowest bandwidth therefore possible is from 8000 Hz sampling with a > 16384 Point FFT giving a bin size of 0.49 Hz and therefore a bandwidth of > close to 1 Hz using a Hamming window. I'm running 4000/8192/0.49 with WELCH (i.e. quadratic) preprocessing only. Trying cosine windows (Hamming, Hanning) I found some "broadening" or "smearing" of the LORAN-C lines using the Marconi. WELCH draws a little bit more delicate (<- dict.). The leakage suppression seems to be sufficient if RX gain is adjusted carefully. > Therefore, with 1 Hz BW the 3 > seconds dots everyone seems to have settled on as being optimum will fill 3 > FFT samples ans show up clearly as a line of three pixels or more depending > on what overlap has been incorporated in the data sampling. But there will > NEVER be any advantage in going to longer dots unless the sampling rate is > reduced (will GRAM allow 5513 Hz sampling ?) or the FFT size can be > increased above 16384. I tried 16384 and 32768 and it worked fine but my RX are not stable enough to get the full performance. The SPECGRAM2 application for UNIX workstations has the advantage to run under plain console mode, if available. So no computing power is wasted for GUI. By the way, it compiles under old MsDOS with GNU-C but is restricted to IRQ < 8. So I never tried this. It is Open Source Software of course. > [...] > GRAM does not use the mix down and decimate technique, but it just may be > possible for the author to include a longer FFT routine as an option if > asked. I have seen million point FFTs processed on Pentium PCs in less than > one second, so it is certainly possible! It is also possible to ignore > alternate samples of the input data, giving an effectively reduced input > sampling rate - that is what decimation is all about - but the audio must > then be pre-filtered to prevent any alliasing terms being generated as no > filtering is being done in software. The 32768 FFT works sufficient under LINUX/i486-66 even under GUI (X-Win). Some years ago I asked Creative Labs for further descriptions of their soundcards but I never got a qualified answer. So I don't know wether this ADCs have any true-phase antialiasing filtering at front end. > [...] > 6dB of capability is being wasted anyway, using these non-coherent energy > detection techniques, but that's another story ............... And another question is how to get this 6dB with non-linear power amplifiers... Greetings from North Germany, 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9197 invoked from network); 2 Apr 1999 13:20:51 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 2 Apr 1999 13:20:51 +0100 Received: (qmail 14307 invoked from network); 2 Apr 1999 12:21:27 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Apr 1999 12:21:27 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10T2tS-0002lU-01; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:17:51 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA10949 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:17:47 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA10945 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:17:45 GMT Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10T2sx-0002l2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:17:22 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA13583 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:21:43 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990402131551.0ccf24f0@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 13:15:51 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: LCWA homepage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello all, I just noticed that the homepage of the LCWA has moved to http://www.lwca.org/ Seems to be a lot faster than before. 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15977 invoked from network); 2 Apr 1999 14:27:24 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 2 Apr 1999 14:27:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 17722 invoked from network); 2 Apr 1999 13:28:00 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Apr 1999 13:28:00 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10T3vR-0003OG-00; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:23:57 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA11434 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:23:28 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA11430 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:23:26 GMT Received: from bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ([195.186.1.75]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10T3uP-0003O6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:22:54 +0100 Received: from phonakcom.ch ([195.186.13.104]) by bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ( with ESMTP id AAA3402 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:22:44 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3704B6BD.F9B37ADF@phonakcom.ch> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 14:23:25 +0200 From: "Toni Bdrtschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: AF-filters and CW versus SlowCW References: <37033EDB.63B6BC32@phonakcom.ch> <37036390.D7B84D15@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >From HB9ASB, JN36pt Somehow my last e-mail to this reflector got lost, so here again some explanations: In the meantime I've repeated the tests with two other receivers (Watkins-Johnson WJ8888 and Icom IC765): the results are the same. I've used the term "blind test" because of an automatically keyed TX with a random text. This helped my to find the point where the signal was just strong enough to copy. Unfortunately I could not also switch the power level automatically. Anyway, I think I came quite close to the "threshold point": In all cases the signal was no longer to copy when I lowered the TX output by another 3dB. Of course I've changed the dwell time and the averaging control to higher levels for the tests with longer dot periods. But as Andy said, longer dwell time is probably just a waste of time (the computer is waiting!) and this may be the reason why longer dots give no advantage under normal condx. However, in situations when longer periods of reception are wiped out by heavy QRN or QRM (Luxembourg-effect), a longer dot-time may help. 73 de Toni From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14796 invoked from network); 3 Apr 1999 14:12:45 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 1999 14:12:45 +0100 Received: (qmail 29236 invoked from network); 3 Apr 1999 13:13:16 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 1999 13:13:16 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10TQ84-0008Dh-00; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 14:06:28 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA20041 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:04:20 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA20037 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:04:17 GMT Received: from mashie.force9.net ([195.166.128.30]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10TQ5X-0008DU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 14:03:51 +0100 Received: (qmail 8066 invoked from network); 3 Apr 1999 13:04:48 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 1999 13:04:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 3374 invoked from network); 3 Apr 1999 13:03:40 -0000 Received: from 235.hiper01.shef.dialup.force9.net (HELO prstesv1) (195.166.142.235) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 1999 13:03:40 -0000 Message-ID: <000601be7dd2$adec47e0$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Apologies to DJ5BV Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 14:05:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org I don't know whether DJ5BV sees these messages but perhaps someone could QSP if not... My computer crashed towards the end of a QRS QSO today but I did get my "O" report OK and hope he got his! I sent 73 by hand but I think we doubled at the end. The lesson is, never fiddle with the computer if it's working OK!! I will be on from GM from Sunday until Wednesday. 73, Dave G3YXM (or GM3YXM/P) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25241 invoked from network); 3 Apr 1999 20:51:52 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 1999 20:51:52 +0100 Received: (qmail 32649 invoked from network); 3 Apr 1999 19:52:34 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 1999 19:52:34 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10TWR0-0002yT-01; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:50:26 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA22607 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 19:50:41 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA22603 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 19:50:36 GMT Received: from dub-img-10.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.140]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10TWQX-0002xw-00 for RSGB_LF_GROUP@BLACKSHEEP.ORG; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:49:58 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-10.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id OAA02227; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 14:49:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 14:48:45 -0500 From: "Peter Bobek" Subject: LF: DA0LF active April 10/11th To: "RSGB_LF_GROUP" , =?iso-8859-1?Q?DJ8CY_-_G=FCnter?= , "DJ2LF - Walter Staubach" Message-ID: <199904031449_MC2-7082-9C31@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hi all EU-lowfers, most of you will remember the activities of DA0LF back in 1997 and also early 1998... (10 watts and 930 km...) DA0LF is back again! Three OPs (DJ2LF, DJ8CY and me/DJ8WL) will be active from JO40BP next weekend (April 10th - April 11th). Most likely, each one will use his personal callsign during the scheduled activity. However, I am planning to only use DA0LF (instead of DJ8WL). To be exact: we have to sign "/P". We´ll have a 30m high flat-top T-antenna on top of a mountain with a good counterpoise. It used to be the site of a LF air beacon and (hopefully) has a quiet neighborhood. Plans are to use "regular CW" between 136.5 - 137.0 kHz and "SLOW-CW" between 137.650 - 137.730 kHz. We can´t accept requests for skeds at the moment since we do not know how fast we can get the system working but as soon as we have finished setting up everything activity most likely will be continuous through Sunday afternoon. We can be reached via telephone during the operation: mobile (++49) - 171 - 97 28 456 Hope to work many of you! Happy Easter! Regards, Peter/DJ8WL (DA0LF) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17538 invoked from network); 4 Apr 1999 16:38:49 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 4 Apr 1999 16:38:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 32365 invoked from network); 4 Apr 1999 15:39:25 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Apr 1999 15:39:25 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Tos1-00041k-01; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 16:31:34 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA30146 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 15:31:11 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA30142 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 15:31:09 GMT Received: from premium.inrete.it ([194.116.9.4] helo=mailer.inrete.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Tor8-00041O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 16:30:39 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from pc-lab (pcttym02.inrete.it [194.116.9.246]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA21195 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 17:30:31 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990404162448.0068a010@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 16:24:48 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: LF: New loading coil operative, new top hat... In-reply-to: <199904031449_MC2-7082-9C31@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hi all, I have rebuilt my loading coil/variometer, using a plastic dustbin as support. It works very well, and the antenna current even increased a bit, from abt. 5,8 to 6 A. Thanks to all OMs for their suggestions! I extimate the ERP increase in 0,7 dB. Details of the coil: I have an antenna capacitance of 370 pF, requiring about 3,7 mH to be tuned. The coil has 100 turns of insulated 12 AWG wire (2 mm dia., abt 3 mm with insulation). The wire is a surplus one, and insulation is hard plastics, probably siliconic (definitively not PVC). The winding is conic, diameter abt. 450 mm at the base, 425 mm at top. The variometer has 10 turns on 300 mm dia, and is mounted on the high (and hot) side for easy of turning. According to G4FGQ's SOLENOID.EXE the Q should be over 1100 when in series resonance. Assuming a 3 Ohm series resistance (3,1 kOhm reactance) the dissipated power in the inductor should be about 100 W. After 30 seconds of key down or 6 minutes of CQ the coil warms a little, so I have to believe that Q is high! Then I am rebuilding the top hat. Currently I use two 27 m wires, spaced 1 m. The new one has three 20 m wires, spaced 1 m from each other. It will be more distant from obstacles (house and end pole). I hope to be QRV tomorrow. 73 de IK1ODO Marco Rivalta, ITALY JN35SA (N 45 01' 25.6", E 7 31' 09.4") From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15645 invoked from network); 4 Apr 1999 20:50:08 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 4 Apr 1999 20:50:08 +0100 Received: (qmail 1591 invoked from network); 4 Apr 1999 19:50:44 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Apr 1999 19:50:44 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Tsmg-0005sg-00; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 20:42:18 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA31784 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:42:43 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA31775 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:42:39 GMT Received: from man-099.dialup.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.41.123] helo=localhost.localdomain ident=john) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Tsm5-0005sG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 20:41:41 +0100 Received: (from john@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.1a/8.9.1/asi-redhat) id NAA04986 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 13:45:39 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: john set sender to word.factory@zetnet.co.uk using -f Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-reply-to: <003001be7adb$0e69e500$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 19:26:07 +0100 (BST) From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: CFA Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org I have obtained a copy of the patent spec for this invention. From a patent spec someone skilled in the art ought to be able to make a CFA without assistance from the inventor. Having read the spec I have come to two conclusions: 1) I am not skilled in the art 2) the First Law of Engineering applies (any useful advance has at least one major disadvantage). In this case I wonder if, as we make the CFA a smaller and smaller fraction of a wavelength, it becomes more and more difficult to maintain the correct relative phasing and amplitude of the two feeds? Would someone skilled in the art like to comment? G3PAI ---------------------------------- E-Mail: John Rabson Date: 03-Apr-99 Time: 12:57:59 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23222 invoked from network); 5 Apr 1999 10:46:28 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 5 Apr 1999 10:46:28 +0100 Received: (qmail 23637 invoked from network); 5 Apr 1999 09:47:10 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Apr 1999 09:47:10 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10U5tW-0003VT-00; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:42:14 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA04215 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:42:06 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA04210 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:42:04 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10U5t3-0003VP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:41:45 +0100 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA29729 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:41:42 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <1999040509441968199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:44:19 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re: CFA Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit CFA Antenna > I have obtained a copy of the patent spec for this invention. From a patent > spec someone skilled in the art ought to be able to make a CFA without > assistance from the inventor. You might think so. I was recently engaged as an expert witness in a case of a patent infringment involving a radio circuit involving filters. The patent write up was, in the main, technical gibberish. Most of my efforts went into trying to make sense of it. It rather dented my faith in the patent procedures > Having read the spec I have come to two conclusions: > 1) I am not skilled in the art > 2) the First Law of Engineering applies (any useful advance has at least one > major disadvantage). In this case I wonder if, as we make the CFA a smaller and > smaller fraction of a wavelength, it becomes more and more difficult to > maintain the correct relative phasing and amplitude of the two feeds? Try to get hold of the Wireless World article "CFA-RIP" The best patent I have read is the one by James F Corum on his toroid antenna, which appears to have been written very skillfully. It covers almost every concevable configuration of the antenna but leaves out something essential, which in this case is the feedline impedance matching network. This means that you cannot easily reproduce it from the patent write-up. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11753 invoked from network); 5 Apr 1999 13:34:34 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 5 Apr 1999 13:34:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 25070 invoked from network); 5 Apr 1999 12:35:16 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Apr 1999 12:35:16 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10U8Yw-0004Zv-00; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:33:10 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA05131 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:33:15 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA05127 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:33:10 GMT Received: from disp.mindef.nl ([62.200.204.66] helo=u05.mindef.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10U8YY-0004Xx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:32:46 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from co.disp.mindef.nl (dial-124.pop1.mld.disp.net [62.200.205.124]) by u05.mindef.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4288 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:31:55 +0200 Message-ID: <3708AC57.A19BDA3A@co.disp.mindef.nl> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 14:28:08 +0200 From: "Jaap Valstar" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [nl] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SCW report april 4 and 5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello all, On april 4 and 5 I did some tests in receiving SCW . From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21372 invoked from network); 5 Apr 1999 18:50:21 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 5 Apr 1999 18:50:21 +0100 Received: (qmail 20705 invoked from network); 5 Apr 1999 17:51:12 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Apr 1999 17:51:12 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10UDRc-0007Fo-00; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:45:56 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA07110 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:34:26 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA07106 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:34:24 GMT Received: from disp.mindef.nl ([62.200.204.66] helo=u05.mindef.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10UDFt-00078t-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:33:49 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from co.disp.mindef.nl (dial-081.pop1.mld.disp.net [62.200.205.81]) by u05.mindef.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4790 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:32:51 +0200 Message-ID: <3708F2DE.EA49F8CC@co.disp.mindef.nl> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 19:29:02 +0200 From: "Jaap Valstar" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [nl] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SCW report april 4 and 5, 2nd attempt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello all, On april 4 and 5 I did some tests in receiving SCW april 4th -------- Saw the qso btwn DF3LP (O) and IK1ODO(M) 18.25 - 20.11 gmt Also saw DJ5BV(M) calling CQ several times april 5th -------- Again DJ5BV (M) calling CQ several times , ltr also calling ik1odo at 0715z saw DA0LF ??(M) or stn using his call , only once (who can confirm this? learned he will be qrv next weekend) 0750z DF3LP (O) with vy strong signal ---------------- receiving situation: Locator JO33EI Rx TS570D 270 HZ IF filter Ant : T-ant 7 m vertical, 2 x 15 m horizontal (Inv V) Software : Gram 4.2.6 ----------------- 73's Jaap / pa3guc From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15748 invoked from network); 5 Apr 1999 21:22:46 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 5 Apr 1999 21:22:46 +0100 Received: (qmail 6282 invoked from network); 5 Apr 1999 20:23:37 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Apr 1999 20:23:37 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10UFqc-0000P5-01; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:19:54 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA08416 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 20:20:13 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA08412 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 20:20:11 GMT Received: from arl-img-9.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.139]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10UFqH-0000Oy-00 for RSGB_LF_GROUP@BLACKSHEEP.ORG; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:19:33 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from root@localhost) by arl-img-9.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id QAA03130 for RSGB_LF_GROUP@BLACKSHEEP.ORG; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:19:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:19:05 -0400 From: "Peter Bobek" Subject: LF: SCW report april 4 and 5, 2nd attempt To: "RSGB_LF_GROUP" Message-ID: <199904051619_MC2-70A5-6B61@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org *************** >>april 5th >>-------- >>Again DJ5BV (M) calling CQ several times , ltr also calling ik1odo >>at 0715z saw DA0LF ??(M) or stn using his call , only once >> (who can confirm this? learned he will be qrv next weekend) >>0750z DF3LP (O) with vy strong signal *************** YES, Jaap, indeed it was DA0LF! I did make some equipment tests to be on the safe side --- see you all next weekend from JO40BP ! --- Peter/DJ8WL (also DA0LF) *************** >>73's Jaap / pa3guc From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28631 invoked from network); 6 Apr 1999 08:27:26 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Apr 1999 08:27:26 +0100 Received: (qmail 12843 invoked from network); 6 Apr 1999 07:28:22 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Apr 1999 07:28:22 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10UQDt-00080z-00; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 08:24:37 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA12409 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:24:17 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA12405 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:24:15 GMT Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10UQDJ-00080m-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 08:24:01 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA02796 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:28:22 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990406082223.2dcf458a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 08:22:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: weekend report 2-5 april 1999 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org The weekend started very quite with little activity on friday and saturday, and even less on Easter. But a very busy band on monday ! Stations heard/seen in 'slow CW' : HB9ASB (529), G0MRF (M), DJ5BV (569), G3YXM (579), IK5ZPV (M), DF3LP (529), IK1ODO (O), DK8KW (O), DJ7KL (419), DA0LF (559), DL3ABC (O) Stations heard in 'normal CW' : DF3LP (529), G4GVC (559), PA0SE (589), G3KEV (579), PA0LQ (579), GW4ALG (429), G3XTZ (559), MM0ALM (539), GM3YXM/P (529), DJ5BV (569), PA0KDM (529), DJ6FU (549), PA0AWN (559), OH1TN (339). DJ6FU (new one for me) had a very good signal and was CQ-ing for some time on monday, but did not reply to me. DA0LF also had a wonderfull signal, but I only heard him in slow-CW and he had quite a pile-up from oyher DL's. A pity I didn't hear him in normal CW, should have been an easy one. 73, Rik PS : on sunday I heard the 137kHz RTYY station at 06.15 UT slowly fading out until 06.45 UT when is was gone. Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6130 invoked from network); 6 Apr 1999 22:18:03 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 6 Apr 1999 22:18:03 +0100 Received: (qmail 8689 invoked from network); 6 Apr 1999 21:18:52 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Apr 1999 21:18:52 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10UdBg-0001e2-01; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:15:12 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA19041 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:13:50 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA19027 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:13:40 GMT Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.157]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Ud9Y-0001Zd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:13:00 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-127-98.bellatlantic.net [151.200.127.98]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA13939; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:15:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <370A79B7.E0B07C85@bellatlantic.net> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 17:16:39 -0400 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, lowfer@qth.net Subject: LF: Serious LF Antennas References: <14088.13919.796474.495278@bellatlantic.net> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello LF Gang,

If you are interested in looking at serious LF antennas, may I suggest you visit

http://www.amrad.org/projects/lf/March1999NSS/

73
Andre' From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10902 invoked from network); 7 Apr 1999 06:20:12 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Apr 1999 06:20:12 +0100 Received: (qmail 16691 invoked from network); 7 Apr 1999 05:21:04 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Apr 1999 05:21:04 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Ukj2-0000u9-00; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:18:08 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA22469 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 05:17:57 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA22465 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 05:17:55 GMT Received: from ns.cro.cz ([193.179.196.2] ident=qmailr) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Ukig-0000u2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:17:46 +0100 Received: (qmail 28041 invoked from network); 7 Apr 1999 05:17:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from fw.cro.cz (HELO ns-int.cro.cz) (193.179.197.2) by ns.cro.cz with SMTP; 7 Apr 1999 05:17:43 -0000 Received: from radiohk.hk.cro.cz (ns.hk.cro.cz [172.27.1.2]) by ns-int.cro.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA18498 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:17:42 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc033hk.hk.cro.cz ([172.27.1.33]) by radiohk.hk.cro.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA06504 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:17:25 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by pc033hk.hk.cro.cz with Microsoft Mail id <01BE80C6.B241F6E0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz>; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:17:29 +-200 Message-ID: <01BE80C6.B241F6E0@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> From: "Petr Maly" To: "'137 kHz'" Subject: LF: First call Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:17:28 +-200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hi all, I have been given this e-mail address from u.k. radio amateurs group on i-net. I become lately interested in V.L.F., I heard that actually new band is few kilohertz around 137 kHz. Can anyone share his experiencies with me? Is this e-mail address such an interesting group? Will anybody give me first kick in the right direction to go further? Thanks in advance. 73! Petr, OK1FIG (ex /mm) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19622 invoked from network); 7 Apr 1999 07:54:48 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Apr 1999 07:54:48 +0100 Received: (qmail 22346 invoked from network); 7 Apr 1999 06:55:41 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Apr 1999 06:55:41 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10UmCx-0001wh-00; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:53:07 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA23086 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:52:36 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA23082 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:52:34 GMT Received: from server.italway.it ([193.70.27.5] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10UmBv-0001wP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:52:05 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from a (ppp1.italway.it [193.70.27.50]) by server.italway.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA23724 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:43:30 +0200 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19990407065952.00679810@server.italway.it> X-Sender: yasmin@server.italway.it (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 08:59:52 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Yasmin Tour Agenzia Viaggi" Subject: LF: LF Activity Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello LF Guys! Few qso's these last days, but high quality! Becoming on Saturday evening with OH1TN; Reino copied my cq call and sent me a very nice recording, but, as last two weeks, I was not able to copy him. I am sure anyway we could make qso with a little cooperation from D-layer... Sunday 4 April at 20.11 gmt I worked again Mal G3KEV, good 549. Yesterday evening at 20.50 gmt I called on 136.9 and had qso cross band on 80 metrs with SM6PXJ loc. JO68UO; i think first cross band from I to SM. Later at 136.15 I made qso with OZ1KMR ; his report was 539 with deep qsb. First I to OZ on LF? Locator here is JN53JU. Tx:400 W RX: Icom IC736 with cw filter 250 hz and Timewawe DSP. Antenna: "T" , 17 metrs vertical arm and 220 metrs horizontal suspended " slooping style" strating from a 30 metrs high tower. Hope to get on LF soon. 73 de Marzio I5MXX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14627 invoked from network); 7 Apr 1999 10:15:22 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Apr 1999 10:15:22 +0100 Received: (qmail 11986 invoked from network); 7 Apr 1999 09:16:22 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Apr 1999 09:16:22 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10UoP5-0003ar-01; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:13:47 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA23916 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:13:48 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA23912 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:13:46 GMT Received: from mb05.swip.net ([193.12.122.209]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10UoOn-0003ai-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:13:30 +0100 Received: from s-257519 (dialup94-2-32.swipnet.se [130.244.94.96]) by mb05.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA18236 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:13:26 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <006001be80d6$ca10ae00$605ef482@s-257519> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SV: LF Activity Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:12:05 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hi Marzio and the group Marzio I5MXX wrote: >Later at 136.15 I made qso with OZ1KMR ; his report was 539 with deep qsb. >First I to OZ on LF? I heard your QSO with OZ1KMR here in JO67MR. Your signal was difficult to copy because of my bad antenna and QRN but I did copy your callsign. It would have been easy to catch you on QRSS. OZ1KMR had the strongest amateur signal I have ever heard on LF. I have no accurate S/N figure but, on Spectrogram, the CW was red on dark blue background ;-) 73 de Johan Bodin, SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12767 invoked from network); 7 Apr 1999 15:05:43 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Apr 1999 15:05:43 +0100 Received: (qmail 1883 invoked from network); 7 Apr 1999 14:06:36 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Apr 1999 14:06:36 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10UsvR-0006sp-01; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:03:29 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA25959 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:03:31 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA25955 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:03:29 GMT Received: from arl-img-10.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.140]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Usv1-0006sa-00 for RSGB_LF_GROUP@BLACKSHEEP.ORG; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:03:03 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by arl-img-10.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id JAA01901; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:56:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:55:25 -0400 From: "Peter Bobek" Subject: LF: SLOW-CW pile-ups To: "RSGB_LF_GROUP" , "DJ2LF - Walter Staubach" , =?iso-8859-1?Q?DJ8CY_-_G=FCnter_K=F6nig?= Message-ID: <199904070955_MC2-70E2-BEDA@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DL-activity from JO40BP (April 10th-11th, 1999) Hi all, when DA0LF was testing last weekend I encountered a problem which was rather new to me: pile-ups in SLOW-CW! I know how to handle this in regular CW - but even though I was able to hear 4 stations at the same time there were two more calling exactly on top of each other (within <0.5 Hz). Is there anyone who could tell me from his own experience what to do in SCW if this happens again next weekend? I have a certain idea, please carry on reading. The announcement of the DL-expedition has brought some direct feedback (thanks!) but at the same time also has created some fear in my heart we might probably hear you all but can only reply to one caller at a time From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2293 invoked from network); 7 Apr 1999 16:35:07 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Apr 1999 16:35:07 +0100 Received: (qmail 18961 invoked from network); 7 Apr 1999 15:36:02 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Apr 1999 15:36:02 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10UuKY-00081A-01; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:33:30 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA26562 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:33:24 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA26558 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:33:22 GMT Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10UuJw-0007tU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:32:52 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA16970 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:33:57 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990407162756.085fba66@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 16:27:56 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: SLOW-CW pile-ups In-reply-to: <199904070955_MC2-70E2-BEDA@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org At 09:55 7/04/99 -0400, you wrote: >DL-activity from JO40BP (April 10th-11th, 1999) > >Hi all, > >when DA0LF was testing last weekend I encountered a problem which was >rather new to me: pile-ups in SLOW-CW! >I know how to handle this in regular CW - but even though I was able to >hear 4 stations at the same time there were two more calling exactly on top >of each other (within <0.5 Hz). Is there anyone who could tell me from his >own experience what to do in SCW if this happens again next weekend? I have >a certain idea, please carry on reading. > >The announcement of the DL-expedition has brought some direct feedback >(thanks!) but at the same time also has created some fear in my heart >we might probably hear you all but can only reply to one caller at a time > Hallo Peter, da ist bei deiner Mail irgend was 'schiefgelaufen' da es halbwegs im Satz plötzlich aufhört. Eine Bitte meinetwegen : köntet ihr bei einer nächsten Aktivität von DA0LF auch in 'normal-CW' QRV sein. Am montag habe ich euch mit 549 in slow-CW gehört, aber wie du schon erwänt hast war da ein gewaltiges 'pile-up'. Ein slow-CW QSO dauert 20 Minuten oder länger, in 'normal CW' etwa 1 Minute. Da ist 'normal CW doch etwas effizienter wenn beide Stationen sich hören können. Wie wäre es mit den Vorschag nach jedes 'slow-CW' QSO das Band mahl kurz (einige Minuten) ab zu hören ob nicht einer in normal-CW ruft ? 73, Rik ON7YD Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9590 invoked from network); 7 Apr 1999 21:59:29 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 7 Apr 1999 21:59:29 +0100 Received: (qmail 14264 invoked from network); 7 Apr 1999 21:00:31 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Apr 1999 21:00:31 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10UzOU-00049K-00; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 21:57:54 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA29509 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:56:32 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA29505 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:56:28 GMT Received: from mb05.swip.net ([193.12.122.209]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10UzMH-00046x-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 21:55:37 +0100 Received: from s-257519 (dialup47-1-60.swipnet.se [130.244.47.60]) by mb05.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA06643 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:55:33 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000801be8138$df99c1a0$3c2ff482@s-257519> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: First SM/SM QSO! (?) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:54:13 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hi All, I just had my very first two-way LF QSO. What a thrill! (my hands are still shaking...) I was experimenting with a rotatable shorted turn in my loading coil. I increased the supply voltage to my small PIC controlled beacon TX until I got 300 mA antenna current. Output power was about 4 watts. The PIC was sending "hello de sm6lkm" repeatedly in swedish (hello = hej). I remember thinking "no one can ever hear this tiny signal" when SM6PXJ phoned me from about 120 km away, telling me "hello, your have a good signal here!"... What a surprise! We decided to try a QSO and I did some soldering to get the straight key connected to the TX. When I called "SM6PXJ de SM6LKM K" Christer answered immediately. This QSO was made with normal speed CW and my PA is made of two small TO-92 transistors (BC337 / BC 327) running on 27V. I think this we made the first two-way LF QSO within SM? I also heard G3KEV calling CQ at 19:00 UTC. He had a VERY good signal, "armchair copy" with SSB filter! Strongest G signal I've heard so far... 73 from a very happy Johan Bodin, SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21401 invoked from network); 8 Apr 1999 06:14:21 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 8 Apr 1999 06:14:21 +0100 Received: (qmail 9800 invoked from network); 8 Apr 1999 05:15:26 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Apr 1999 05:15:26 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10V730-0002hi-00; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 06:08:14 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA32665 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 05:06:34 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA32661 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 05:06:32 GMT Received: from mb06.swip.net ([193.12.122.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10V71E-0002h1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 06:06:24 +0100 Received: from win95.swipnet.se (dialup158-1-29.swipnet.se [130.244.158.29]) by mb06.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA08054 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:06:20 +0200 (MET DST) From: "Christer Andersson" To: "RSGB LF group" Subject: LF: CoolMOS FET Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:10:04 +0200 Message-ID: <01be817e$1060e300$1d9ef482@win95.swipnet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Wouldn't this new transistor be suitable for a LF PA? The new 'CoolMos' technology from Siemens that brings much lower RDSon for high voltage types. http://www.infineon.com/products/36/36.htm /Christer sm6pxj@swipnet.se From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14575 invoked from network); 8 Apr 1999 09:28:10 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 8 Apr 1999 09:28:10 +0100 Received: (qmail 12690 invoked from network); 8 Apr 1999 08:29:14 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Apr 1999 08:29:14 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VA8e-0004EZ-00; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:26:16 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA01039 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:26:03 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA01035 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:26:01 GMT From: G0MRF@aol.com X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com ([198.81.17.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VA85-0004Dz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:25:41 +0100 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.7) id lGLTa24536 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 04:24:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 04:24:02 EDT Subject: Re: LF: SLOW-CW pile-ups To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 118 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In a message dated 07/04/99 15:08:59 GMT Daylight Time, BOBEK@compuserve.com writes: << when DA0LF was testing last weekend I encountered a problem which was rather new to me: pile-ups in SLOW-CW! I know how to handle this in regular CW - but even though I was able to hear 4 stations at the same time there were two more calling exactly on top of each other (within <0.5 Hz). Is there anyone who could tell me from his own experience what to do in SCW if this happens again next weekend? I have a certain idea, please carry on reading. >> Spread out the pile up??..........+ / - 10 Hz should accomodate everybody. I guess calling a popular station a few Hertz off their frequency has its advantages. If people see you working a station who's not exactly on your frequency, I'm sure the idea will catch on. Or. If you can identify two stations, you could give two reports in one over ....Hey, when's the first contest! (Hi) Good luck. CU on slow CW. David G0MRF BTW. I see that DBF39 is off-air this morning. First time I've noticed that. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24449 invoked from network); 8 Apr 1999 10:21:08 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 8 Apr 1999 10:21:08 +0100 Received: (qmail 14263 invoked from network); 8 Apr 1999 09:22:07 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Apr 1999 09:22:07 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VAxW-0004nv-01; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:18:50 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA01312 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:19:02 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA01308 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:19:00 GMT Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VAxN-0004nj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:18:41 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id FAA08317; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 05:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA03416; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 05:17:31 -0400 Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by umrsvr.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA18183; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 05:16:34 -0400 Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id <2GLLYVVM>; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:17:02 +0100 Message-ID: <205F4B3C4BCED21184C7006097630A8A069239@nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com> From: "Soegiono, Gamal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: DBF39 off-air Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:16:59 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi all, > David G0MRF wrote: > BTW. I see that DBF39 is off-air this morning. > First time I've noticed that. Occasionally came across following off-air periods during a former long term measurment on DBF39: Dec 05/1998 02:06 - 02:18 UTC Dec 08/1998 13:15 - 13:31 UTC BTW: Is there anybody capable of decoding the emission of DBF39 ?? Have made a FSK demodulator (using NE567) recently, but failed in displaying the 200 bps data stream (200 bps is no standard value as are 300bps, 150 bps, 75bps). Any hints? Best 73 Gamal Soegiono (SWL) 50N01 / 08E27 / JO 40 fa soegiono@nm.hsd.utc.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24457 invoked from network); 8 Apr 1999 10:21:09 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 8 Apr 1999 10:21:10 +0100 Received: (qmail 14266 invoked from network); 8 Apr 1999 09:22:09 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Apr 1999 09:22:09 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VAwI-0004kh-00; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:17:34 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA01303 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:17:42 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA01299 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:17:40 GMT From: MichaelOexner@compuserve.com X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from arl-img-11.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.141]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VAw8-0004kb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:17:24 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by arl-img-11.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id FAA08134 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 05:16:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 05:16:09 -0400 Subject: LF: Transport UK->Germany To: "LF" Message-ID: <199904080516_MC2-70F9-A430@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hi all, I'm looking for somebody that will be travelling between the UK and Germany in the next few weeks and would be willing and able to transport two pieces of used radio equipment for me (from the UK to Germany). The respective postage would be well over £30, and I'm looking for a way to minimise this cost. If you are able to help please contact me via direct e-mail: michaeloexner@compuserve.com vy 73 + gd DX, Michael RX: ICOM R71A, Sony ICF-SW7600G Antenna: Radio West 22.5" ferrite loop with amplifier, 20m longwire Location: Roschbach, Germany N 49°15' E 8°07' Member: CSDXC, DSWCI, EUNL, LWCA, MWC Editor of "The European NDB Handbook" e-mail: michaeloexner@compuserve.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19978 invoked from network); 9 Apr 1999 04:50:14 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 04:50:14 +0100 Received: (qmail 26408 invoked from network); 9 Apr 1999 03:51:23 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 03:51:23 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VSHj-0001t6-00; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 04:48:51 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA09552 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 03:48:31 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id DAA09548 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 03:48:28 GMT Received: from arl-img-8.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.138]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VSHH-0001sw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 04:48:23 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by arl-img-8.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id XAA26368 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:48:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:46:38 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: DA0LF: Bad News (relayed from the Packet Network) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199904082347_MC2-7125-2896@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org VLF @EU de:DJ2LF 08.04.99 13:31 90 917 Bytes Bad news from DA0LF *** Bulletin-ID: 849DB0BOX00Q *** Read: 2 Path: DK0MAV!DB0UHI!DB0ABZ!DB0ERF!DB0MAK!DB0BOX Sent: 990408/1325z @:DB0BOX.#BAY.DEU.EU [Nuernberg, JN59NJ, Op:DC3YC] Bcm1.40m From: DJ2LF @ DB0BOX.#BAY.DEU.EU To: VLF @ EU X-Info: No login password Hallo lowfers, Peter DJ8WL (DA0LF) cannot join in the expedition because he became sick. Therefore we will not be qrv in slow-cw and cannot use the call DA0LF. Peter only has the equipment and experience in slow-cw. But please give us (Guenter DJ8CY and Walter DJ2LF) the chance to have qso with you in regular cw. Sorry about this situation but let us make the best of it. 73 Walter DJ2LF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20299 invoked from network); 9 Apr 1999 04:52:48 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 04:52:48 +0100 Received: (qmail 26581 invoked from network); 9 Apr 1999 03:53:58 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 03:53:58 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VSKK-0001ud-00; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 04:51:32 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA09590 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 03:51:32 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id DAA09586 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 03:51:31 GMT Received: from ah-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.154] helo=hpamgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VSKD-0001uK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 04:51:25 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.1) id XAA26118 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:50:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:50:05 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Source for IRFP450 ! To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199904082350_MC2-7125-28C4@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Lowfers, for those of you looking for a reasonable priced source for the IRFP450, go and check www.reichelt.de Their price is 4.35 DM per piece including VAT and they deliver withing one or two days. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) P.S.: Anyhow, thank yoi for your support, Rik! I now have first solved my PA problem, and second I have another 10 pieces here as a backup. You never know! From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21369 invoked from network); 9 Apr 1999 05:02:00 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 05:02:00 +0100 Received: (qmail 27212 invoked from network); 9 Apr 1999 04:03:10 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 04:03:10 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VSTE-00021X-00; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 05:00:44 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA09645 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 04:00:44 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id EAA09641 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 04:00:42 GMT Received: from ah-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.154] helo=hpamgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VST6-00021S-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 05:00:36 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.1) id AAA13646 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 00:00:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:58:29 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: Re: LF: SLOW-CW pile-ups To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199904090000_MC2-7125-2916@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Lowfers, although DA0LF will not be QRV this weekend (see message "DA0LF - bad news"), I could imagine how to solve a pileup situation: >Spread out the pile up??..........+ / - 10 Hz should accomodate everybody. >I guess calling a popular station a few Hertz off their frequency has its >advantages. Allocate a shift frequency corresponding to the number in the call. If DA0LF (or whoever) calls on 137.600 (for example), stations with a "1" in the call should use 137.610, I would use 137.680, etc... (the only problem I see could arise in the UK, you have untypically many G3 stations on LF). But with us 40 or 50 stations active in Europe this situation probably is going to happen very rarely ... Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26845 invoked from network); 9 Apr 1999 08:11:41 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 08:11:41 +0100 Received: (qmail 23754 invoked from network); 9 Apr 1999 07:12:44 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 07:12:44 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VTkr-0002ta-01; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 06:23:01 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA09984 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 05:22:48 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA09980 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 05:22:46 GMT Received: from dub-img-12.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.142]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VTkT-0002tO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 06:22:37 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-12.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id BAA12422 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 01:22:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 01:21:35 -0400 From: "Dave Sergeant" Subject: LF: Normal CW operation To: "rsgb_lf_group" Message-ID: <199904090121_MC2-7120-C39A@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >From Dave G3YMC I would back the request by Rik ON7YD (in your excellent German!) for slow CW ops to occasionally call and listen in normal CW. I would certainly hope that Peter and his group give sufficient time to both call and listen in this mode during their operation this weekend as (provided they are a big signal) it can only encourage interest and participation. The idea of a short CW period after each QRSSS period seems a good one. Although I appreciate that QRSSS is now an important part of 136 operation, and enjoyed by those who partake, there are quite a few of us who get plenty of satisfaction from good old plain CW. 73s Dave G3YMC sergeantd@compuserve.com http:/ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26893 invoked from network); 9 Apr 1999 08:11:53 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 08:11:53 +0100 Received: (qmail 23776 invoked from network); 9 Apr 1999 07:12:49 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 07:12:49 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VUDR-0003B9-00; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 06:52:33 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA10115 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 05:52:33 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA10111 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 05:52:30 GMT Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226] helo=gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VUDF-0003As-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 06:52:21 +0100 Received: by gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA00652; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:51:28 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Message-ID: From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: report i5mxx Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:52:14 +0200 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Hello Lowfers, > heard I5MXX calling CQ in normal CW on 8.4.99 at 19:15 UTC for abt. 3 minutes. The signal was very weak and hard to copy (RST 319). On the frequency he was transmitting we, in south germany, have a strong (S9) carrier which makes is difficult to copy. I5Mxx is the first I station I heard on LF. 73 de DL1SAN (JN48WL) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1069 invoked from network); 9 Apr 1999 08:16:45 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 08:16:45 +0100 Received: (qmail 31157 invoked from network); 9 Apr 1999 07:17:55 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 07:17:55 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VVUB-0003pJ-01; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:13:55 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA10561 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:13:59 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA10557 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:13:57 GMT Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VVU1-0003pG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:13:45 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA17815 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:18:10 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990409081207.2da7c5fc@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 08:12:07 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: LF propagation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Last night (8 april) I could hear I5MXX several times between 19.40 and 21.10 UT, calling CQ. All the time the signal was very close to the noise (and quite heavy QRN). The report was between 329 and 439, except arround 21.00 UT when during a CQ call the signal came up from 439 to a solid 559. But despite the big signal I got no response from I5MXX and did not hear him anymore (closed the station at 21.40 UT). Also heard DF3LP calling SM with signals between 329 and 549. 73 Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24810 invoked from network); 9 Apr 1999 11:55:15 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 11:55:15 +0100 Received: (qmail 24950 invoked from network); 9 Apr 1999 10:56:21 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 10:56:21 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VYte-0005ug-00; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:52:26 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA12659 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:52:34 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA12655 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:52:32 GMT Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VYtJ-0005tq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:52:06 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id GAA02961; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 06:55:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA06128; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 06:50:45 -0400 Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by umrsvr.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA12807; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 06:49:18 -0400 Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id <2GLLYV89>; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:49:55 +0100 Message-ID: <205F4B3C4BCED21184C7006097630A8A069244@nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com> From: "Soegiono, Gamal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: DBF39 off-air Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:49:54 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Dick, PA0SE and all GS> BTW: Is there anybody capable of GS> decoding the emission of DBF39 ?? DR> So even if you were able to decode the DR> messages they would probably make no sense. Yes and No. By vewing the demodulated audio in SSB mode on the scope, I can discern different message lengths, short messages and long messages. Long messages appearing most frequently, short messages appear with relatively large repetition times. As all radio stations have to identify themselves from time to time, I would expect that short messages _might_ contain the station ID where long messages obviously contain the mentioned remote control commands. So I do not care about the remote control commands, but intend to "see" the station ID. Some OMs refer the station to as DBF39 others refer to it as DCF39. End of last year I spoke with a technician at EFR (the company using a.m. LF station for their remote control service). He informed me, that DCF39 is still used to identify the station. By displaying the ASCII messages I would like to confirm that this is actually the case. Best 73 Gamal Soegiono (SWL) 50N01 / 08E27 / JO 40 fa soegiono@nm.hsd.utc.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8134 invoked from network); 9 Apr 1999 15:22:01 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 15:22:01 +0100 Received: (qmail 21179 invoked from network); 9 Apr 1999 14:23:12 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 14:23:12 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Vc7f-0008GW-01; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:19:07 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA14437 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:19:11 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA14433 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:19:09 GMT Received: from hil-img-7.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Vc7G-0008DE-00 for RSGB_LF_GROUP@BLACKSHEEP.ORG; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:18:43 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hil-img-7.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id KAA00975 for RSGB_LF_GROUP@BLACKSHEEP.ORG; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:18:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:12:51 -0400 From: "Peter Bobek" Subject: LF: SLOW-CW pile-ups (chopped mail) To: "RSGB_LF_GROUP" Message-ID: <199904091012_MC2-712F-DBC6@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello All, unfortunately the original mail got chopped again due to a single dot some host put at the begin of a line* I am going to avoid dots this time and repeat the complete message with my own ideas which were chopped of at the end* Thanks to all who already commented* There were some valuable informations to think about now* Sorry also for cancelling my own DA0LF SLO-CW activity due to health reasons (thanks to Geri/DK8KW who relayed the info from our packet-cluster)* But we are already talking about the next expedition* The two guys who are doing the Normal-CW mode now (DJ2LF and DJ8CY) are good CW-OPs and they also received a long list with calls to look for* I also told them to preferably use 136,5-136,8 kHz* Good luck to all who are trying to work DL in FAST CW this weekend! Peter/DJ8WL (also DA0LF) ***************repeated mail in full length******************* DL-activity from JO40BP (April 10th-11th, 1999) Hi all, when DA0LF was testing last weekend I encountered a problem which was rather new to me: pile-ups in SLOW-CW! I know how to handle this in regular CW - but even though I was able to hear 4 stations at the same time there were two more calling exactly on top of each other (within <0,5 Hz)* Is there anyone who could tell me from his own experience what to do in SCW if this happens again next weekend? I have a certain idea, please carry on reading* The announcement of the DL-expedition has brought some direct feedback (thanks!) but at the same time also has created some fear in my heart we might probably hear you all but can only reply to one caller at a time* When the qso is finished (15-30 minutes later depending on dotlength) all the others might have gone since they did not know they were heard! Please do not call us exactly on our own frequency in SCW, spread out a few Hz but stay within a window -10 *** + 10 Hz* Be patient after you finished your call* We might still be trying to also copy another station with a longer callsign* Send your call only once and keep your exchanges as short as possible* What we plan to do - when coming back - is to first "mark" all the frequencies of stations (if there were more than one) we have heard using one "ping" (=dot) 10 seconds long exactly on the caller´s frequencies* QSY between the individual frequencies will be done with the carrier "ON"* Thus you can follow us and you will also know we have heard you! Then we start the qsos* We shall call you exactly on your frequency (we can tune in 0,01 Hz steps - if required - but most likely will use 1 Hz steps only)! ***We are still open for comments* Any good ideas that will help to increase the efficiency and make as many qsos as possible are very welcome!*** All written above applies to SLOW CW only* FAST CW does not need this* Cu next weekend (SLOW and FAST CW)* Regards, Peter/DJ8WL (also: DA0LF) *********************end of repeated mail*********************** UNFORTUNATELY SLOW-CW is not possible this time (see explanation above)* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8547 invoked from network); 9 Apr 1999 17:46:07 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 17:46:07 +0100 Received: (qmail 18417 invoked from network); 9 Apr 1999 16:47:13 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 16:47:13 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VeGa-0001cA-00; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:36:28 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA15716 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 16:36:38 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA15711 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 16:36:35 GMT Received: from public2.thorcom.com ([194.75.130.20] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VeGB-0001bj-01 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:36:03 +0100 Received: from laatikko.saunalahti.fi ([195.74.0.48]) by public2.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #2) id 10Vdzk-0006Do-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:19:05 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from meisaku (MMCCXLVII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.43.147]) by laatikko.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA04687 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 19:15:50 +0300 (EET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990409191549.007c26e0@mail.dlc.fi> X-Sender: oh2lx@mail.dlc.fi X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 19:15:49 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: Re: LF: DBF39 off-air In-reply-to: <205F4B3C4BCED21184C7006097630A8A069244@nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello folks, I'm a newcomer to this mailing list, Incidentally measured frequencies of DCF39/49 yesterday. DCF77 (77.5) and DCF39 (138.83/139.17) are continuously Fs recorded here at our Monitoring Station (qth: Jokela, 60N34 25E00), that's for LF propagation studies. Qth of the latter is Burg, perhaps that is why somebody may call it DBF39. Qth of DCF49 probably Mainflingen? Cheerio de Vaino, OH2LX IARU Region 1 Auroral Studies Coorninator PS Just reading article by PA0SE on RadCom, very nice... At 12:49 9.4.1999 +0100, you wrote: >Hello Dick, PA0SE and all > > >GS> BTW: Is there anybody capable of >GS> decoding the emission of DBF39 ?? > >DR> So even if you were able to decode the >DR> messages they would probably make no sense. > >Yes and No. > >By vewing the demodulated audio in >SSB mode on the scope, I can discern >different message lengths, short messages >and long messages. > >Long messages appearing most frequently, >short messages appear with relatively >large repetition times. > >As all radio stations have to identify >themselves from time to time, I would expect >that short messages _might_ contain the >station ID where long messages obviously >contain the mentioned remote control commands. > >So I do not care about the remote control >commands, but intend to "see" the station ID. > >Some OMs refer the station to as DBF39 >others refer to it as DCF39. > >End of last year I spoke with a technician >at EFR (the company using a.m. LF station >for their remote control service). He informed >me, that DCF39 is still used to identify the >station. By displaying the ASCII messages I would >like to confirm that this is actually the >case. > >Best 73 > >Gamal Soegiono (SWL) > >50N01 / 08E27 / JO 40 fa >soegiono@nm.hsd.utc.com ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15358 invoked from network); 9 Apr 1999 18:17:25 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 18:17:25 +0100 Received: (qmail 22007 invoked from network); 9 Apr 1999 17:18:31 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 17:18:31 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VerG-0002Dg-00; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:14:22 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA15931 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:14:46 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA15927 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:14:44 GMT Received: from public2.thorcom.com ([194.75.130.20] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Ver6-0002DP-01 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:14:12 +0100 Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by public2.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #2) id 10VebY-0006P8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:58:08 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from mail.uni-kiel.d400.de (actually srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de) by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:54:27 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de by mail.uni-kiel.d400.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA00242; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:54:24 +0200 Message-ID: <370E30CD.799DFB1@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 18:54:37 +0200 From: "Peter W. Schnoor" Organization: University of Kiel, Clinic of Nephrology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: DJ2LF/p... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Gang, 1640z: Heard DJ2LF/p with rst429 (with chirp) at 136.85 kHz. Called him sometimes but got no reply... 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14544 invoked from network); 9 Apr 1999 20:46:54 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 20:46:54 +0100 Received: (qmail 11280 invoked from network); 9 Apr 1999 19:48:00 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 19:48:00 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VhCY-0004uV-01; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 20:44:30 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA16972 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 19:44:53 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA16965 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 19:44:49 GMT Received: from premium.inrete.it ([194.116.9.4] helo=mailer.inrete.it ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VhCF-0004tv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 20:44:12 +0100 Received: from pent150 (pcttym05.inrete.it [194.116.9.240]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA01655 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:43:54 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990409202634.00f22bf4@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 20:26:34 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: DBF39 off-air In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.19990409191549.007c26e0@mail.dlc.fi> References: <205F4B3C4BCED21184C7006097630A8A069244@nmex01nt.hsd.utc.co m> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hi all, I'm just back froma a QSY in Germany. I found a message on WUN (World Utility Network) list, referring to DBF39: Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 22:09:57 +0100 To: wun@qth.net From: Day Watson Subject: [WUN] Dig: Mar: logs Sender: owner-wun@qth.net Reply-To: Day Watson Logs for 4/Apr: 139.0 DCF49: DT MAINFLINGEN 1830 ASCII 200/340 Control data bursts. ID's "DCF49 TEST" in ASCII in 8bit/1stop/Ev.parity frame. (4/Apr) (DW) .... Day Watson is a well known English SWL. The confusion on the call sign seemed interesting to me ! Maybe even the people sending messages on air has not clear the assigned call sign ... I tried to demodulate the data stream months ago, and I found only binary encoded characters. That's all. See you on air Saturday and Sunday. 73 de IK1ODO Marco Rivalta, ITALY JN35SA (N 45 01' 25.6", E 7 31' 09.4") From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14546 invoked from network); 9 Apr 1999 20:46:54 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 20:46:54 +0100 Received: (qmail 11281 invoked from network); 9 Apr 1999 19:48:01 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 19:48:01 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VhCY-0004uU-00; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 20:44:30 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA16971 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 19:44:51 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA16960 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 19:44:48 GMT Received: from premium.inrete.it ([194.116.9.4] helo=mailer.inrete.it ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VhCF-0004ts-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 20:44:11 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from pent150 (pcttym05.inrete.it [194.116.9.240]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA01658 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:43:56 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990409202947.00f2108c@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 20:29:47 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: First SM/SM QSO! (?) In-reply-to: <000801be8138$df99c1a0$3c2ff482@s-257519> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org At 22.54 07/04/99 +0200, you wrote: >Hi All, > >I just had my very first two-way LF QSO. What a thrill! (my >hands are still shaking...) > Hello Johan, congratulations !!!! and, PSE QRO ! If you need an handfull of IRFP250 let me know ... Best wishes for your activity 73 de IK1ODO Marco Rivalta, ITALY JN35SA (N 45 01' 25.6", E 7 31' 09.4") From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25703 invoked from network); 10 Apr 1999 06:23:19 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 10 Apr 1999 06:23:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 23224 invoked from network); 10 Apr 1999 05:24:29 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Apr 1999 05:24:29 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Vq9a-0005Z5-00; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 06:18:02 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA21976 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 05:17:07 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA21972 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 05:17:05 GMT Received: from hil-img-7.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Vq8W-0005Yv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 06:16:56 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hil-img-7.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id BAA06008 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 01:16:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 01:15:21 -0400 From: "Dave Sergeant" Subject: LF: DJ8CY/P To: "rsgb_lf_group" Message-ID: <199904100116_MC2-713D-EC03@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >From Dave G3YMC Friday evening I am copying DJ8CY/P with 559 signals, very fine. However listening to a few stations trying to establish contact they do not seem to be receiving quite so well. Let us hope things improve during the weekend. Later in the evening I heard I5MXX 439 - conditions seemed quite reasonable last night! 73s Dave sergeantd@compuserve.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23148 invoked from network); 10 Apr 1999 11:43:54 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 10 Apr 1999 11:43:54 +0100 Received: (qmail 6456 invoked from network); 10 Apr 1999 10:45:04 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Apr 1999 10:45:04 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10VvCK-0000Al-01; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:41:12 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA24145 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:38:18 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA24141 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:38:16 GMT Received: from hil-img-6.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.136]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Vv9B-000073-00 for RSGB_LF_GROUP@BLACKSHEEP.ORG; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:37:57 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hil-img-6.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id GAA17022; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 06:36:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 06:35:46 -0400 From: "Peter Bobek" Subject: LF: DJ2LF/DJ8CY-activity from JO40BP To: "RSGB_LF_GROUP" Cc: "DJ2LF - Walter Staubach" , =?iso-8859-1?Q?DJ8CY_-_G=FCnter_K=F6nig?= Message-ID: <199904100636_MC2-7141-D4CD@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hi All, Walter/2LF and Guenter/8CY startet the activity already yesterday (Friday) evening and did work G3YXM, G4GVC and G3KEV* Walter said this morning all three were very strong! This morning they were transmitting around 136,7 khz and their signal is very strong here (distance 110 km): 599! The site they are transmitting from is called "Fuchskaute" which is the highest mountain (658 m above sealevel) in the "WESTERWALD* There is a nice small hotel on top which has very acceptable rates (rates for radio-amateurs!)* They are using a 30 m high triple top T-antenna which Walter has built especially for this activity and it seems to work very well* Their signal also has a small chirp which might be useful to identify it* The VFO had a small drift as well* They, however, reported strong QRM from other commercial LF-stations - whatever this means (Luxembourg-effect, frontend overload, or the intermods from Mainflingen)* I certainly hope that many of you have the oportunity to work these fellows even though DA0LF(DJ8WL) was not able to participate this time* But we already started talking about the next one* Pse QSL to the operators* 73, Peter (DJ8WL/DA0LF) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6082 invoked from network); 10 Apr 1999 13:45:47 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 10 Apr 1999 13:45:47 +0100 Received: (qmail 14767 invoked from network); 10 Apr 1999 12:46:57 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Apr 1999 12:46:57 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Vx5m-0001GO-00; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 13:42:34 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA25111 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:41:32 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA25107 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:41:30 GMT Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.211]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Vx4N-0001Fi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 13:41:07 +0100 Received: from modem-76.lanthanum.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.28.76] helo=D419564btinternet.com) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10Vx4J-0007c2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 13:41:04 +0100 Message-ID: <000101be834f$13112ba0$4c1c883e@D419564btinternet.com> From: "Lionel Sear" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Ultra slow Hellschreiber Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:48:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

I have been working for some time with DSP and have a development that may be of interest to the group, and especially those using slow CW with FFT waterfall displays.
 
I am sampling the audio input continuously at 11025 Hz in 8192 sample blocks. I lose every other sample and do FFT's on the 4096 samples remaining clocking through 2048 samples each time giving a bin size of 2.6Hz. I use the fruits of the FFT output and plot the intensity as a pixel in a classic Hellschreiber display, by which two identical displays are positioned one above another and synch. problems are avoided because if the output scrolls off the top display it scrolls on to the bottom. Also speed discrepancies can be tolerated as these result in a display that slopes up or down but is still readable. Most importantly for our purpose is the fact that the eye interpolates and can discern characters that may have parts missing through QSB or are corrupt due to QRM and I feel that the method may have some advantage where slow CW is at its limit.
 
I have three speeds at present, 2 chars/min, 1 char/ min and 0.5 char/min.
 
 
I have got over the problem of tuning in to and holding a channel 2.6 Hz wide by plotting ALL of 10 adjacent bins, so if you can tune to within 26 Hz the display will decode somewhere.
 
If anybody would like to try the program I would be glad to email them a beta copy. The program in written using Windows95 with C++ Builder and uses a PC with soundcard. I use a Pentium 133 but there should be some latitude as I am not making outlandish demands on the CPU. The output is audio for an SSB TX or PTT/Keying using DTR and RTS of a COM port. I have run it with a colleague locally on 28MHz but not pushed it to the limit. If the technique shows promise there is some potential for further development.
 
Ideally, we could do with somebody to beacon whilst a number of others listen. (I am not equipped to transmit on LF at present).
 
Email me at lionel@lsear.freeserve.co.uk if you would like a copy.
 
 
73
Lionel
G3PPT
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5562 invoked from network); 11 Apr 1999 08:00:10 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 11 Apr 1999 08:00:10 +0100 Received: (qmail 9726 invoked from network); 11 Apr 1999 07:01:26 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Apr 1999 07:01:26 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10WEBU-0003NT-00; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 07:57:36 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA01858 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 06:57:14 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA01854 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 06:57:12 GMT Received: from mta4.iol.it ([195.210.91.154]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10WEAv-0003NM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 07:57:01 +0100 Received: from default ([151.13.75.100]) by mta4.iol.it (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with SMTP id AAA5BB1 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 08:56:57 +0200 Message-ID: <000201be83e0$4f0393a0$644b0d97@default> From: "Alessandro Kosoveu" To: "LISTA RSGB LF" Subject: LF: 137.035 khz signal Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 09:15:14 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Ciao All, Today, 10.04.1999 8.15 utc, I have a signal on 137.035 kHz (lines long 10-14 sec - off at 8.30/8.40 utc). The direction is 0° - 180° (+- 10°) in JN 65 VP. It is visible at: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/7588/Lf/137b.html Ciao Alessandro ================================================== ALESSANDRO KOSOVEU - SWL IV3-2161/TS - IW3SGT P.O. BOX 238 - 34100 TRIESTE (TS) - ITALY e-mail: alessandro.kosoveu@iol.it home page: http://users.iol.it/alessandro.kosoveu/ http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/7588/ ================================================== From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18736 invoked from network); 12 Apr 1999 08:28:04 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Apr 1999 08:28:04 +0100 Received: (qmail 2063 invoked from network); 12 Apr 1999 07:29:29 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 1999 07:29:29 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Wb5g-0006yV-01; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:25:08 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA12763 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:16:58 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA12759 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:16:56 GMT Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10WaxW-0006tp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:16:42 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA07780 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:21:13 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990412081506.2e97f40a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:15:06 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: weekend report 9-11 april 99 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Stations heard (seen) in slow-CW : ON4ZK Stations heard in 'normal' CW : DJ2LF/P (589), DJ8CY/P (589), PA0KDM (529) G3YXM (579), G4GVC (549), HB9ASB (529), G3BDQ (529), G3KEV (569), PA0AWN (549), GW4ALG (529), DJ6FU (539), OZ1KMR (559), OH1TN (429), IK5ZPV (549), G3OLB (429). DJ2LF/P and DJ8CY/P were worked. OZ1KMR was heard in local QSO with OZ5N but I wasn't able to 'break' the QSO, also heard G3YXM calling OZ1KMR without succes. IK5ZPV was CQ-ing and had a tremendous signal for over 30 minutes but I couldn't raise his attention. 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21608 invoked from network); 12 Apr 1999 08:52:50 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Apr 1999 08:52:50 +0100 Received: (qmail 7436 invoked from network); 12 Apr 1999 07:54:15 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 1999 07:54:15 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10WbTh-00078y-00; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:49:57 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA12973 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:48:42 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA12969 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:48:40 GMT Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10WbS1-00078c-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:48:14 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id DAA23743; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 03:51:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA01800; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 03:47:07 -0400 Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by umrsvr.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA12235; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 03:44:54 -0400 Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id <2GLLYW1M>; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:46:16 +0100 Message-ID: <205F4B3C4BCED21184C7006097630A8A069247@nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com> From: "Soegiono, Gamal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: AW: LF: DBF39 off-air Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:46:14 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Vaino, OH2LX OH2LX> Hello folks, I'm a newcomer to this mailing list, Welcome here. OH2LX> Incidentally measured frequencies of DCF39/49 OH2LX> yesterday. DCF77 (77.5) and DCF39 (138.83/139.17) OH2LX> are continuously Fs recorded here at our Monitoring OH2LX> Station (qth: Jokela, 60N34 25E00), that's for LF OH2LX> propagation studies. Good idea ! Have done this in Nov-Jan and observed some interesting pattern, loosely related with geomagnetic index. Should you be interested please let me know. OH2LX> Qth of the latter is Burg, perhaps that is why somebody OH2LX> may call it DBF39. The perhaps first usage of "DBF39" I found in an article from Walter Staubach, DJ2LF in german magazine CQ-DL May 1998 page 372. OH2LX> Qth of DCF49 probably Mainflingen? Some collected data for mentioned stations: ========================================== Station DCF39 ========================================== nominal frequency 139.000 kHz modulation: ASCII (8E1) 200 baud FSK 340Hz shift mark_frequency 138.830 kHz space_frequency 139.170 kHz ------------------------------------------- latitude 52N55 *) longitude 10E18 *) locator JO52XH *) located at Burg near Magdeburg *) = accurate to 10km ------------------------------------------- user (remote control service): EFR - Europaeische Funk-Rundsteuerung GmbH Wilhelm von Siemens Strasse 2-10 D-12277 Berlin Germany phone +49-30-2671-7055 fax +49-30-2671-7832 operator: Deutsche Telekom AG There are 6 antennas on this site: (1) 210m vertical monopole This is a guyed isolated tubular mast used for transmissions of DCF39/DBF39 powered by Telsa Transmitter which is designed for nominal 200kW but presently operated with 50kW HFout (2) 210m vertical monopole This is a guyed isolated tubular mast presently unused formerly used for MW transmissions (3) 324m vertical biconical antenna This is a hexafilar wire antenna supported by fabric mast used for BC transmissions of "Radioropa Info" on 261kHz powered by Telefunken Transmitter which is a MOSFET amp providing 50kW HFout (4) triple, 70m octofilar horizontal dipole presently unused formerly used for MW transmissions (1575kHz Radio Berlin Intenational) (5) 55m trideco antenna presently unused formerly used for MW transmissions as backup antenna (6) 55m trideco antenna presently unused formerly used for MW transmissions as backup antenna ========================================== ========================================== Station DCF49 ========================================== nominal frequency 129.100 kHz modulation: ASCII (8E1) 200 baud FSK 340Hz shift mark_frequency 128.930 kHz space_frequency 129.270 kHz ------------------------------------------- latitude 50N00 longitude 08E49 locator JO40VA located at Mainflingen near Frankfurt user (remote control service): EFR - Europaeische Funk-Rundsteuerung GmbH Wilhelm von Siemens Strasse 2-10 D-12277 Berlin Germany phone +49-30-2671-7055 fax +49-30-2671-7832 operator: Deutsche Telekom AG ========================================== Station DCF42 ========================================== carrier frequency 122.50 kHz start of modulation 122.50 kHz maximum of modulation 123.70 kHz end of modulation 124.90 kHz --------------------------------------------------------- latitude 50N00 longitude 08E49 locator JO40VA located at Mainflingen near Frankfurt Broadcast of Differential GPS Data ALF=Accurate positioning by Low Frequency modulation: Single Sideband PSK operator: Deutsche Telekom AG ========================================== ========================================== Station DCF77 ========================================== carrier frequency 77.50 kHz -------------------------------------------- latitude 50N00 longitude 08E49 locator JO40VA located at Mainflingen near Frankfurt Broadcast of standard time and frequency user: Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt Labor fuer Zeiteinheit Bundesallee 100 D-38116 Braunschweig Germany operator: Deutsche Telekom AG ========================================== Best 73 Gamal Soegiono (SWL) 50N01 / 08E27 / JO 40 fa soegiono@nm.hsd.utc.com soegiono@nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25381 invoked from network); 12 Apr 1999 09:15:38 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Apr 1999 09:15:38 +0100 Received: (qmail 16680 invoked from network); 12 Apr 1999 08:16:59 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 1999 08:16:59 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10WbpE-0007OC-00; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:12:12 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA13215 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:10:54 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA13211 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:10:52 GMT Received: from mail.dlc.fi ([195.74.0.51] helo=laatikko.saunalahti.fi) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Wbmr-0007Mp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:10:07 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from meisaku (MDCCCLXXVIII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.42.78]) by laatikko.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA12937 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:08:34 +0300 (EET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990412110832.007b3620@mail.dlc.fi> X-Sender: vaiski@mail.dlc.fi X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:08:32 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: Re: AW: LF: DBF39 off-air In-reply-to: <205F4B3C4BCED21184C7006097630A8A069247@nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Mille grazie caro Gamal per informazione! That is very very useful for me as I intend to analyze the field strength measuring data produced at the Jokela Measuring station. I'm retired propagation researcher and pilot and dont' have DL QTC available at the moment but I'm a member of RSGB and send monthly propagation info for PSC (Propagation studies Committee) Have been measuring LF stations for 35 years and we monitor Aeronautical and Maritime beacons etc. Can you hear Datatrak stations around 132 & 145 kHz? All the best, Ciao de Vaino At 09:46 12.4.1999 +0100, you wrote: >Hello Vaino, OH2LX > > OH2LX> Hello folks, I'm a newcomer to this mailing list, > > Welcome here. > > OH2LX> Incidentally measured frequencies of DCF39/49 > OH2LX> yesterday. DCF77 (77.5) and DCF39 (138.83/139.17) > OH2LX> are continuously Fs recorded here at our Monitoring > OH2LX> Station (qth: Jokela, 60N34 25E00), that's for LF > OH2LX> propagation studies. > > Good idea ! Have done this in Nov-Jan and observed some > interesting pattern, loosely related with geomagnetic > index. Should you be interested please let me know. > > OH2LX> Qth of the latter is Burg, perhaps that is why somebody > OH2LX> may call it DBF39. > > The perhaps first usage of "DBF39" I found in an article from > Walter Staubach, DJ2LF in german magazine > CQ-DL May 1998 page 372. > > > OH2LX> Qth of DCF49 probably Mainflingen? > > Some collected data for mentioned stations: > > ========================================== > Station DCF39 > ========================================== > nominal frequency 139.000 kHz > modulation: ASCII (8E1) 200 baud FSK 340Hz shift > mark_frequency 138.830 kHz > space_frequency 139.170 kHz > ------------------------------------------- > latitude 52N55 *) > longitude 10E18 *) > locator JO52XH *) > located at Burg near Magdeburg > *) = accurate to 10km > ------------------------------------------- > user (remote control service): > EFR - Europaeische Funk-Rundsteuerung GmbH > Wilhelm von Siemens Strasse 2-10 > D-12277 Berlin > Germany > phone +49-30-2671-7055 > fax +49-30-2671-7832 > > operator: > Deutsche Telekom AG > > > > > There are 6 antennas on this site: > > > (1) 210m vertical monopole > This is a guyed isolated tubular mast > used for transmissions of DCF39/DBF39 > powered by > Telsa Transmitter > which is designed for nominal 200kW > but presently operated with 50kW HFout > > (2) 210m vertical monopole > This is a guyed isolated tubular mast > presently unused > formerly used for MW transmissions > > (3) 324m vertical biconical antenna > This is a hexafilar wire antenna > supported by fabric mast > used for BC transmissions of > "Radioropa Info" on 261kHz > powered by > Telefunken Transmitter > which is a MOSFET amp providing > 50kW HFout > > (4) triple, 70m octofilar horizontal dipole > presently unused > formerly used for MW transmissions > (1575kHz Radio Berlin Intenational) > > (5) 55m trideco antenna > presently unused > formerly used for MW transmissions as backup antenna > > (6) 55m trideco antenna > presently unused > formerly used for MW transmissions as backup antenna > ========================================== > > > ========================================== > Station DCF49 > ========================================== > nominal frequency 129.100 kHz > modulation: ASCII (8E1) 200 baud FSK 340Hz shift > mark_frequency 128.930 kHz > space_frequency 129.270 kHz > ------------------------------------------- > latitude 50N00 > longitude 08E49 > locator JO40VA > located at Mainflingen near Frankfurt > > user (remote control service): > EFR - Europaeische Funk-Rundsteuerung GmbH > Wilhelm von Siemens Strasse 2-10 > D-12277 Berlin > Germany > phone +49-30-2671-7055 > fax +49-30-2671-7832 > > operator: > Deutsche Telekom AG > > ========================================== > Station DCF42 > ========================================== > carrier frequency 122.50 kHz > start of modulation 122.50 kHz > maximum of modulation 123.70 kHz > end of modulation 124.90 kHz > --------------------------------------------------------- > latitude 50N00 > longitude 08E49 > locator JO40VA > located at Mainflingen near Frankfurt > > Broadcast of Differential GPS Data > ALF=Accurate positioning by Low Frequency > modulation: Single Sideband PSK > > operator: > Deutsche Telekom AG > ========================================== > > ========================================== > Station DCF77 > ========================================== > carrier frequency 77.50 kHz > -------------------------------------------- > latitude 50N00 > longitude 08E49 > locator JO40VA > located at Mainflingen near Frankfurt > > Broadcast of standard time and frequency > > user: > Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt > Labor fuer Zeiteinheit > Bundesallee 100 > D-38116 Braunschweig > Germany > > operator: > Deutsche Telekom AG > ========================================== > > > Best 73 > > Gamal Soegiono (SWL) > > 50N01 / 08E27 / JO 40 fa > soegiono@nm.hsd.utc.com > soegiono@nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26182 invoked from network); 12 Apr 1999 09:19:04 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Apr 1999 09:19:04 +0100 Received: (qmail 17064 invoked from network); 12 Apr 1999 08:20:26 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 1999 08:20:26 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Wbt5-0007Or-00; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:16:11 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA13230 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:15:01 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA13226 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:14:58 GMT Received: from artemis.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.126]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10WbrU-0007Ob-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:14:32 +0100 Received: from pc171.geog.le.ac.uk ([143.210.151.171] helo=kate) by artemis.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10WbrN-0002KN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:14:25 +0100 Message-ID: <002301be84bb$e94dbf90$ab97d28f@kate.geog.le.ac.uk> From: "Kate Moore" To: "lfgroup" Subject: LF: Weekend report Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:10:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Very interesting conditions this weekend on 136kHz, with lots of activity. Countries heard: G, GW, ON, PA, DJ, HB9, OZ, I and LX. Stations worked here using normal speed CW: Friday 9/4 G4HYU (14.54UT: he was 589, gave me 599), G6NB (15.05: 579, 59+9), HB9ASB (18.52: 569, 569), DJ2LF/P (19.16: 559, 519), I5MXX (19.42: crossband QSO - he was 559 on 136.9kHz, gave me 579 on 3530kHz), GW4ALG (19.59: 589, 599). Saturday 10/4 GW3XDV/P (09.02: 579, 589), G6NB (14.48: 57/89 59+9). Sunday 11/4 IK5ZPV (07.08: 559, 229), DJ8CY/P (08.54: 569, 529), DJ5DI (09.50: 559, 539) PA0SE (10.12: 579, 579), G3KAU (12.35: 59+9, 599). Conditions were unusual on Friday evening with heavy, slow QSB on most DX signals. The first distant station I heard was DJ8CY/P, but I couldn't seem to attract his attention despite Dave 'YXM managing an easy contact with him. Wondering if my antenna was playing up, I tuned around and found Toni HB9ASB close by with a very good signal. I called Toni and we exchanged excellent reports, probably the best QSO we have had. Very strange. I tuned back up the band and found ON7YD working the German guys, and kindly telling them I was also calling (thanks Rik - appreciate it!). Unfortunately their signal had gone way down and I5MXX was calling CQ right over the top of Rik at almost the same strength, making things very complicated....... I waited for a break on the frequency; the German station (now DJ2LF/P) came back up in strength, so I called them again and this time had a good QSO. As I completed that QSO, I5MXX began calling "QSX 3530" so I gave him a call on 80m and he came straight back to me on 136. We had an excellent crossband contact; I also gave him a call on his frequency, but he copied nothing of me despite him peaking RST-569 during the crossband. When we finished, I heard OH1TN also call Marzio on 80m and give him a 449 report from Finland! I was quite active on Saturday morning, but was consciously trying to keep out of the way of the German guys who were doing very well working loads of stations, so I didn't work very much myself. I was pleased to get a call from Mike, /P in Wales, putting out an excellent signal despite the strong winds. As Valerio IK5ZPV had heard me several weeks ago when I was trying to work I5MXX and I heard him last weekend, we had arranged a sked for 07.00UT Sunday morning. I got up early and put out a few hopeful "CQ DX" (!!) calls on frequency, but raised nothing. Then at 06.57UT Valerio appeared at about RST-339 calling me. I replied, but no joy. At 07.00 he called me again, a little stronger at 449, but still didn't hear my several replies. After a few minutes he called me yet again, now a good 559, and this time he heard me! I didn't get a very good report, but the contact progressed cleanly and Valerio confirmed his report back fine, so we made a good QSO at last - excellent! When we'd finished, Dave 'YXM who had been waiting patiently by, made a very good contact with Valerio, making it look very easy...... well done Dave! After that the band began to get very busy again. I made a good contact with Gun DJ8CY/P, the other operator in the German special operation, followed by relaxed chats with Fred DJ5DI and Dick PA0SE. Later I was called by Lech G3KAU who is now a monster signal with his new QRO PA. Regards John G4GVC near Leicester, IO92JP ** TX: Synth + 400W RF from modified 'G3YXM' Mosfet PA ** ** RX: TS-850S with 3 x CW filters and 0.5ppm TCXO ** ** Ant: Inv-L 60m long, 6m high at feed end, 12m high at far end ** From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3856 invoked from network); 12 Apr 1999 12:22:18 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Apr 1999 12:22:18 +0100 Received: (qmail 3844 invoked from network); 12 Apr 1999 11:23:41 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 1999 11:23:41 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10WeSP-0000L0-00; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:00:49 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA14276 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:59:47 GMT X-Priority: 3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA14272 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:59:45 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10WeQw-0000K5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:59:19 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10WeQT-0006IK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:58:49 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:46:39 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:46:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: GW/P Activity 4 - 10 April Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Spent an enjoyable and relaxing week at the /P QTH in SW Wales. Went out three times with the lF gear - note that because of some very close power lines I cannot operate from indoors. Easter Day 4 April Quick check during the evening with receiver and 1m loop antenna. Heard Toni, HB9ASB at 439. Tuesday 6th Sked with Peter, G3LDO, on 73kHz. Set up station on the beach, several hundred metres from the car. Many problems and got station set up more than an hour late. Failed to get any current into the antenna on 73, though 136kHz worked fine. After three hours, exhausted, cold, wet, and covered with sand, we (myself and my younger son David, 2E1DAV) gave up. Saturday 10th Another attempt at 73kHz from a car park near the sea. Rig problems this time - VFO which worked fine earlier in the week now refused to tune below 74kHz. With only 45 minutes of operating time available, we went on 136. Heard DJ8CY/P at 439c but too many callers. Worked G4GVC who was 589, and gave me 579 - 2 s-points up on my previous visit (success at last). Also worked G3XTZ (he was 599, gave me 579) and G3KEV who was 579 and gave me 329. G3KEV was 420km away and my best DX from a field portable site. Lessons learned: Must do some dummy runs on 73kHz from field outside home QTH to get loading right in advance. Rig must be more robust. Do not try to operate from a beach - the sand gets everywhere, and there are too many questions to answer from 'visitors'. ------------------------------------------------ I shall be back in GW in August. Thanks to Peter for his patience and work in getting his 73kHz station set up to listen for me. Better luck next time. A much longer description of the operation can be found at the web site address below. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8148 invoked from network); 12 Apr 1999 17:44:49 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Apr 1999 17:44:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 5338 invoked from network); 12 Apr 1999 16:46:12 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 1999 16:46:12 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Wjkf-000433-01; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:40:02 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA17538 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:40:08 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA17510 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:39:56 GMT Received: from alpha1.dii.unisi.it ([193.205.7.2] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Wjk5-00042l-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:39:25 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from pcfasec.dii.unisi.it (pcfasec.dii.unisi.it [193.205.7.103]) by alpha1.dii.unisi.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA01485 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:40:06 +0200 Received: by pcfasec.dii.unisi.it with Microsoft Mail id <01BE8514.86227D80@pcfasec.dii.unisi.it>; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:44:40 +0200 Message-ID: <01BE8514.86227D80@pcfasec.dii.unisi.it> From: "Valerio Gabbani" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: hrd DJ2LF/P and LX1PD in Italy Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:44:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello to all, I heard (RST 549) DJ2LF/P working DF3LP at about 7.55 UT Sunday. I tried to call him several times but no QSO was made. '73 IK5ZPV Valerio JN53KX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21240 invoked from network); 12 Apr 1999 23:09:09 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Apr 1999 23:09:09 +0100 Received: (qmail 15416 invoked from network); 12 Apr 1999 22:10:33 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 1999 22:10:33 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10WoqP-0000Eq-01; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:06:17 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA20600 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:06:45 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA20596 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:06:39 GMT Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.157]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Woq6-0000Ec-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:05:58 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-125-214.bellatlantic.net [151.200.125.214]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA01993; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:08:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37126F1A.1B62B9F0@bellatlantic.net> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:09:30 -0400 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "AMRAD Tacos" , "rsgb_lf_group" , "lowfer" Subject: LF: RF Design Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org The April 1999 Issue of "RF Design" contains an article entitled "Understanding Range Limitations for Low-frequency Unlicensed Transmissions" by Tom Warnagiris. The article includes a fair amount of information on how to calculate field strength in the 160-190 kHz band and could be useful to all of us involved in LF transmissions. Andre' N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16389 invoked from network); 13 Apr 1999 10:10:02 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Apr 1999 10:10:02 +0100 Received: (qmail 6550 invoked from network); 13 Apr 1999 09:11:30 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 1999 09:11:30 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10WzAg-0008Sv-00; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:07:54 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA25263 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:07:58 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA25259 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:07:56 GMT Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10WzAR-0008Sk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:07:40 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA10449 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:12:09 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990413100558.2f2f6ab2@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:05:58 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Danish station heard in The Netherlands In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org At 08:54 13/04/99 PDT, you wrote: >To All. > >Yesterday night, I did not write down the time but th ink it was about 2300 >UTC, I heard a station with a good RST559 signal sending in what I recognized >as a Scandinavion language. He was obviously testing with another station I >could not hear. > >After some time a short CQ was sent and it turned out to be OZ1KMR (or was it >OZ1KMP? I can't read my own handwriting ....). Unfortunately my call was not >answered. The call is OZ1KMR and I have heard him with strong signal several times in the last week. Last night he was 569 but despite that but I couldn't raise his attention either. He is often in QSO with OZ5N (who is mostly 229/339 here). Last night Dave, G3YXM, managed to work OZ1KMR, but even Dave got only a 119 (?) report and had to repeat his call and report several times. 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27266 invoked from network); 13 Apr 1999 15:34:02 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Apr 1999 15:34:02 +0100 Received: (qmail 9312 invoked from network); 13 Apr 1999 14:35:33 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 1999 14:35:33 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10X4Df-0003di-00; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:31:19 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA27870 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:31:19 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA27866 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:31:17 GMT Received: from bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ([195.186.1.75]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10X4DD-0003ad-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:30:51 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from phonakcom.ch ([195.186.58.30]) by bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ( with ESMTP id AAAE64 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:27:05 +0200 Message-ID: <37133A8B.26E94D6D@phonakcom.ch> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:37:31 +0200 From: "Toni Baertschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: good signals - deaf receivers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >From HB9ASB, JN36pt Now the band gets also busy here in Central Europe. Last weekend I've heard 17 different callsigns and sometimes it sounded like a "dialogue des sourdes": Strong signals but they did not hear each other. Alarming is the increasing number of stations with good signals and mediocre receivers. It seems to me, that the real challenge on the LF band is the receiving part and I think there is still a lot of work to do. This includes also directional receiving aerials. I am aware of the fact that some locations suffer from heavy local QRM or Loran-splatter or have more Luxembourg-effect than others. On the other hand are receivers suffering from front end overload, inappropriate AGC-characteristics and large bandwidths far from the optimum. 73 de Toni From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17594 invoked from network); 13 Apr 1999 16:57:36 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Apr 1999 16:57:36 +0100 Received: (qmail 25910 invoked from network); 13 Apr 1999 15:59:05 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 1999 15:59:05 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10X5XG-0004dV-00; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:55:38 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA28355 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:55:47 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA28351 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:55:45 GMT Received: from neodymium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.83] helo=neodymium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10X5Wt-0004dB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:55:16 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from host62-172-62-53.btinternet.com ([62.172.62.53] helo=btinternet.com) by neodymium with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10X5Ua-0004w5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:52:53 +0100 Message-ID: <37135B6C.858AFCEE@btinternet.com> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:57:50 +0100 From: "prewar" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: FAQ's on LF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hi, Have just joined this group. I have quite a good LF receiver (using 135ft long wire), but cannot seem to here anything except beacons etc. Can someone point me to a FAQ LF site please? Thanks. Regards Albert (England) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 131 invoked from network); 13 Apr 1999 17:48:15 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Apr 1999 17:48:15 +0100 Received: (qmail 29733 invoked from network); 13 Apr 1999 16:49:48 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 1999 16:49:48 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10X6H6-0005Er-00; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:43:00 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA28826 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:43:08 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA28822 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:43:05 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10X6Gh-0005Eg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:42:35 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10X6GK-0004tM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:42:14 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:31:11 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:31:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: good signals - deaf receivers Priority: normal In-reply-to: <37133A8B.26E94D6D@phonakcom.ch> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org HB9ASB wrote: > Alarming is the increasing number of stations with good signals and > mediocre receivers. It seems to me, that the real challenge on the LF > band is the receiving part and I think there is still a lot of work to > do. This includes also directional receiving aerials. > I am aware of the fact that some locations suffer from heavy local QRM > or Loran-splatter or have more Luxembourg-effect than others. On the > other hand are receivers suffering from front end overload, > inappropriate AGC-characteristics and large bandwidths far from the > optimum. > I have argued this for years, and won't bore everyone with my sermon again. The bottom line is that if you get better reports than you give most of the time, you need to improve the receiver. Remember the most successful stations can receive just as well as they can transmit. With a good receiver and a poor antenna, or low power, you can work more stations than with just a good Tx. In the UK, I find a good test is comparing the 138.82 signal, and the Greek RTTY on about 136, with the band noise, as follows: 138.82kHz s9+40 136kHz (evenings) s9 Band noise s2-3 It took me a while to get there, with careful filtering and level adjustment. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19566 invoked from network); 13 Apr 1999 21:18:46 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 13 Apr 1999 21:18:46 +0100 Received: (qmail 29846 invoked from network); 13 Apr 1999 20:20:15 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 1999 20:20:15 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10X9cV-0007yh-01; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:17:19 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA31245 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:17:38 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA31241 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:17:36 GMT Received: from praseodumium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.82] helo=praseodumium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10X9cA-0007yX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:16:59 +0100 Received: from [212.140.23.147] (helo=tracey.gardner) by praseodumium with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10X9Yv-0003Xd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:13:37 +0100 Message-ID: <019501be85ea$8c50ce60$93178cd4@tracey.gardner> From: "Tracey Gardner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Good signals - deaf receivers Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:08:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hi Toni I've been using Gary Breed's K9AY directional antenna for listening in the 200 - 500kHz range for the last months and I can highly recommend it. It produces a nice cardiod response with well over 20db FB ratio. The antenna that I have uses two switched loops as per Gary's Sept 1997 QST article, in conjunction with a broadband amplifier, to allow me to switch between the four points of the compass. The head unit uses a remotely variable termination which enables me to optimise the null. I must confess to having bought the antenna as a complete unit from a UK supplier as I've been heavily committed to a new house build for the last 9 months! So if you want the FB of a yagi on LF, try a K9AY, it really does work! 73s Tracey G5VU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24787 invoked from network); 14 Apr 1999 09:04:22 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Apr 1999 09:04:22 +0100 Received: (qmail 26149 invoked from network); 14 Apr 1999 08:05:55 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 1999 08:05:55 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10XKcs-00054b-01; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:02:27 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA03233 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:59:53 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA03229 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:59:50 GMT Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10XKa8-0004yt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:59:36 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA07963 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:04:04 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990414085752.2f3f44f8@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:57:52 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: good signals - deaf receivers In-reply-to: <37133A8B.26E94D6D@phonakcom.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org At 14:37 13/04/99 +0200, you wrote: >>>From HB9ASB, JN36pt > >Now the band gets also busy here in Central Europe. Last weekend I've >heard 17 different callsigns and sometimes it sounded like a "dialogue >des sourdes": Strong signals but they did not hear each other. >Alarming is the increasing number of stations with good signals and >mediocre receivers. It seems to me, that the real challenge on the LF >band is the receiving part and I think there is still a lot of work to >do. This includes also directional receiving aerials. >I am aware of the fact that some locations suffer from heavy local QRM >or Loran-splatter or have more Luxembourg-effect than others. On the >other hand are receivers suffering from front end overload, >inappropriate AGC-characteristics and large bandwidths far from the >optimum. > > >73 de Toni > > I can only agree with Toni. As owner of a QTH with very low man-made noise (QRM) but unfortunately poor 'ground conditions' (and thus rather low ERP) I know all about the frustration of hearing stations with 'armchair copy' and not being able to work them. With the very nice PA-designs of G3YXM and G0MRF it is easy to get several hundred Watts RF, but maybe now it is about time to focus more on the receiving side. My experience : I use my 13m high and 26m long inverted-L antenna also for receiving and if I connect this antenna directly to my TS440 I hear nothing but intermodulation products in the 135.7-137.8kHz segment. After adding an attenuator (10-40dB in 10dB steps) between antenna and RX a small miracle happens, all the sudden the band is clear and the weak ham-signals can be heard. Although I have only a 500Hz CW filter I can narrow the bandwidth by using the IF-shift and centering on 400Hz instead of the 'default' 800Hz. For my TS440 I found out that I have the optimum between signalstrength and 'intermodulation-surpression' when I receive the DBF39 (or DCF39) signal with about S7. By adding more attenuation I loose the weak signals in the internal RX noise, with less attenuation the intermodualtion-products show up. So maybe this 2 tips may be a help to others : 1. Use an (adjustable) attenuator between antenna and RX, focus on best ratio between the wanted ham-signals and the unwanted IM-products. And don't worry if the s-meter is not moving. 2. Use the IF-shift to narrow the RX bandwidth, it helps if you go from the default 800Hz 'beat' to 400Hz. 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1436 invoked from network); 14 Apr 1999 09:37:49 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Apr 1999 09:37:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 31845 invoked from network); 14 Apr 1999 08:39:21 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 1999 08:39:21 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10XL7p-0005ch-00; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:34:25 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA03490 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:33:01 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA03486 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:32:58 GMT Received: from ns.cro.cz ([193.179.196.2] ident=qmailr) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10XL6C-0005bH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:32:44 +0100 Received: (qmail 5865 invoked from network); 14 Apr 1999 08:32:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from fw.cro.cz (HELO ns-int.cro.cz) (193.179.197.2) by ns.cro.cz with SMTP; 14 Apr 1999 08:32:34 -0000 Received: from radiohk.hk.cro.cz (ns.hk.cro.cz [172.27.1.2]) by ns-int.cro.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA08003 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:32:33 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc033hk.hk.cro.cz ([172.27.1.33]) by radiohk.hk.cro.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA23599 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:32:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by pc033hk.hk.cro.cz with Microsoft Mail id <01BE8662.1101CC00@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz>; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:32:16 +-200 Message-ID: <01BE8662.1101CC00@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> From: "Petr Maly" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Receiving Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:32:14 +-200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org These experiencies give me more hope. Several times I tried to listen to 136 kHz on my IC-751A and long wire (80 meters), heard nothing but noise of various kind. One suggestion. Few years ago I came across a schematic diagram of receiver for NAVTEX (I was R/O and /mm that time). Directly on input of rx there was a crystal filter on 518 kHz, where NAVTEX transmits. Would it not be excellent solution to make crystal SSB-wide filter centered on 136.7 kHz and put it between ant and rx? I know there is only one problem - where to get crystals around 136 and 137 kHz..., hi Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27160 invoked from network); 14 Apr 1999 13:41:19 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Apr 1999 13:41:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 5014 invoked from network); 14 Apr 1999 12:42:55 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 1999 12:42:55 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10XOvU-00019q-00; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:37:56 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA06009 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:36:19 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA06005 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:36:16 GMT Received: from tmsl.tms-ltd.com ([62.172.160.226] ident=firewall-user) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10XOtW-00013x-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:35:54 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by tmsl.tms-ltd.com; id NAA06032; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:38:54 +0100 (BST) Received: from unknown(193.150.182.141) by tmsl.tms-ltd.com via smap (3.2) id xma006016; Wed, 14 Apr 99 13:38:40 +0100 Received: by tmst9400.tms-ltd.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <2BVNG26F>; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:34:53 +0100 Message-ID: <07CD861704A7D211846A0090273A8D211EB109@tmst9400.tms-ltd.com> From: "Cleall Peter" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: LF goodsignals - deaf receivers Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:34:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org It would be nice to set up a detailed scientific investigation, however this would take a lot of organising and time for the analysis. But we may get useful information from a simple exercise. If on saturday April 17 we all received the DCF39 "beacon" at 1200 UTC and filled in and E-mailed a simple questionaire as below direct to me at peter.cleall@tms-ltd.com I will do some simple analysis and see if it reveals anything. Please send direct to avoid clogging up the reflector. Data requested for the receive system only Name:- Callsign:- QRA:- E-Mail:- Signal level received frrom DCF39 [in S points] Amount of QSB Background noise level Rx Bandwidth setting Antenna Type ie L/wire, T , L , vertical , loop or frame (sheilded or unsheilded) Antenna Dimensions :- Average Height in metres:- Length:- number and size of wires:- Earth system type:- ? radials, earth mat, earthing stake, domestic water pipes etc. Length and number of radials Surface or subsurface Is the complete system resonated :- yes/no if yes what method do you use What receiver is used:- Do you use any extra RF filtering:- yes/no Do you use any extra AF filtering:- yes/no Do you use a switched variable attenuator in the receive path:- yes/no Do you use a pre-amp or an upconverter to listen:- yes/no many thanks for your help 73's peter G8AFN From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16269 invoked from network); 14 Apr 1999 15:15:52 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 14 Apr 1999 15:15:52 +0100 Received: (qmail 644 invoked from network); 14 Apr 1999 14:14:58 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by softdnserror with SMTP; 14 Apr 1999 14:14:58 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10XQG1-0002Ve-00; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:03:13 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA06735 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:02:06 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA06731 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:02:04 GMT Received: from mailout00.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.148]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10XQEU-0002V0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:01:38 +0100 Received: from fwd02.btx.dtag.de (fwd02.btx.dtag.de [194.25.2.162]) by mailout00.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 10XQ7n-0001nQ-00; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:54:43 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (087321565-0001(btxid)@[62.157.17.235]) by fwd02.btx.dtag.de id ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:44:47 +0200 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:44:47 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <01BE8662.1101CC00@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> Subject: Re: LF: Receiving X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-online.de From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello all, Petr Maly schrieb: > These experiencies give me more hope. Several times I tried to listen to 136 > kHz on my IC-751A and long wire (80 meters), heard nothing but noise of > various kind. One suggestion. Few years ago I came across a schematic > diagram of receiver for NAVTEX (I was R/O and /mm that time). Directly on > input of rx there was a crystal filter on 518 kHz, where NAVTEX transmits. > Would it not be excellent solution to make crystal SSB-wide filter centered > on 136.7 kHz and put it between ant and rx? I know there is only one problem > - where to get crystals around 136 and 137 kHz..., hi > > Petr, OK1FIG In the easiest way I guess that such a crystal filter would become too narrow even for the small ham band, and it would be more difficult to broaden such a design. For special receive tests, it could be helpful, of course. If a receiver needs some input attenuation at LF on large aerials, as reported by ON7YD on his TS440, for instance, the better way should be to realize this "attenuation" by the loss of a simple coil filter using one to four resonant circuits. But such an arrangement would need less resistive attenuation to stop the overload of the receiver, therefore even some additional preamplification (and selectivity) might be possible, with resonant circuits carefully arranged ahead and behind amplification so that in an empty band the S-meter hangs around "S1". Then it should even be possible to receive the commercial LF stations with an indication of S9+30dB if the receiver has sufficient AGC range. Depending on the Q and coupling realized for the resonant circuits such a preselector/amplifier combination would either cover the whole band or would even need ganged tuning for best performance. In this respect look at the front end designs of those old commercial and military valve receivers before (roughly) 1960, using up to five ganged resonant circuits ahead of the first mixer! They may lack frequency stability and accuracy and i.f. selectivity and other features of today, but they were never blocked when connected to large aerials, and as far as I have heard when in good shape they are still very useful for amateur LF reception. At present I am listening on LF using HF receivers, either a home brew design with three passive resonant circuits ahead of a TCA440 IC single conversion rx, or employing an old TS830s (the dial of which is rather unusable at LF because of its 800 Hz offset in CW receive). The converter LF to 14 MHz is passive, consisting of a single resonant circuit coupled to a 74HCT4066 connected like a ring mixer, with 14 MHz injection. When the input circuit is tuned, the noise increase is noticeable in the receiver! The connection of the tuned LF aerial to the converter does not result in a noise increase, however, and therefore I plan to add some pre-amplification ahead of the mixer, just to overcome the mixer loss. When listening to SAQ at 17,2 kHz in August 1998 I already had to employ some preamplification ahead of this mixer, consisting of a BF245 and an emitter follower. In about 40 km distance of my QTH there is the "Deutschlandfunk" transmitter at 207 kHz; therefore I must be careful not to overload my receiver input (when the LF aerial is tuned to 207 kHz and connected to a passive detector receiver, 600 mV eff can be measured at the diode input). In former decades it has often been said that building a good amateur receiver is much more difficult than constructing a powerful transmitter. Obviously this is true even today, and therefore I appreciate the discussion on improving the receiving part of our LF equipment. 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25230 invoked from network); 15 Apr 1999 06:33:51 +0100 Received: from cask.force9.net (195.166.128.29) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Apr 1999 06:33:51 +0100 Received: (qmail 21954 invoked from network); 15 Apr 1999 05:30:23 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Apr 1999 05:30:23 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Xeka-0000wB-00; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 06:31:44 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA15519 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 05:30:06 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA15481 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 05:30:00 GMT Received: from dub-img-8.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.138]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Xeil-0000v8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 06:29:52 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-8.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id BAA24210 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 01:29:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 01:29:21 -0400 From: "Dave Sergeant" Subject: LF: DCB39 To: "rsgb_lf_group" Message-ID: <199904150129_MC2-7212-4528@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >From Dave G3YMC My 1987 Klingenfuss Guide to Facsimile Stations lists DCF39 on 139.0kHz as a FAX station. Presumably now that it is transmitting other data the last letter has been changed from F (for Fax) to B, to indicate this. I note with interest the repeated comments about good receivers. We should keep encouraging stations to improve their receive set ups, as some stations are certainly lacking in this area. Keep up the good work Mike - many of my QSOs are very much dependent on the other chap's receiver! 73s Dave G3YMC IO91PJ Bracknell sergeantd@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9581 invoked from network); 15 Apr 1999 09:27:28 -0000 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by medusa.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 1999 09:27:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 31006 invoked from network); 15 Apr 1999 09:27:01 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 1999 09:27:01 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10XiO0-0003fb-00; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:24:40 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA17529 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:23:11 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA17525 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:23:08 GMT Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10XiMD-0003f0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:22:50 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA07787 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:27:17 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990415102102.2f2fb344@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:21:02 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Receiving In-reply-to: References: <01BE8662.1101CC00@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org At 15:44 14/04/99 +0200, DJ1ZB wrote: >If a receiver needs some input attenuation at LF on large aerials, as reported >by ON7YD on his TS440, for instance, the better way should be to realize this >"attenuation" by the loss of a simple coil filter using one to four resonant >circuits. But such an arrangement would need less resistive attenuation to stop >the overload of the receiver, therefore even some additional preamplification >(and selectivity) might be possible, with resonant circuits carefully arranged >ahead and behind amplification so that in an empty band the S-meter hangs >around "S1". Then it should even be possible to receive the commercial LF >stations with an indication of S9+30dB if the receiver has sufficient AGC >range. Resonant circuits have the advantage to attenuate out-of-the-band signals selective. But to my experience it can have 2 'hooks' : 1. Attenuation of close to the band signals (eg. DBF39 / DCF39) is minimal 2. When using unsuitable ferrites these filtere can even create intermodulation-signals themselves I did some experiments with bandpass filters but at the end a simple attenuator did the best job (with me) and has the advantage that the attenuation can easily be adjusted to optimum ratio between the wanted signal and IM-products. I managed to built a 3-stage 136kHz filter with about 700Hz bandwidth (-3dB), but when I connected it to the big antenna it produced a lot of noise. But I am sure that with the proper ferite materials and filter component dimensions a usefull filter can be constructed. It would be great if those who already constructed good filter would let the others benefit from their experience. 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15513 invoked from network); 15 Apr 1999 14:53:46 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Apr 1999 14:53:46 +0100 Received: (qmail 9555 invoked from network); 15 Apr 1999 13:53:45 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 1999 13:53:45 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10XmX2-0007Df-01; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:50:16 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA20112 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:48:54 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA20108 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:48:52 GMT Received: from mailout03.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.151]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10XmVH-0007CU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:48:28 +0100 Received: from fwd08.btx.dtag.de (fwd08.btx.dtag.de [194.25.2.168]) by mailout03.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 10XkXq-0002HQ-00; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:42:58 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (087321565-0001(btxid)@[193.159.112.233]) by fwd08.btx.dtag.de id ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:42:50 +0200 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:42:50 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <01BE8662.1101CC00@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> <3.0.1.16.19990415102102.2f2fb344@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: Re: LF: Receiving X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-online.de From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello all, concerning LF preselection I do accept Rik's experiences, and I have been wondering why he did not try this before using the simple attenuator. It is true that near by stations such as DBF39 and DCF39 will not be much attenuated by such an input filter (without special poles provided to suppress them). But the blocking of the receiver is not caused so much by these near-by signals but by the sum of all stations delivered by the aerial, especially the LF broadcast stations of course, and this sum can be reduced considerably by such an input filter. One problem behind this is that suitable slug tuned coil forms as used in former LF/MF radio sets (I still have some which had been sold for bargain prices almost 20 years ago to clean the store) have almost completely disappeared from the market. These coils can be wound with litz wire to get rather high Q, and they can hardly be saturated due to the small mass of the iron powder core. Today the first attempt to design LF filter coils is to employ pot cores. Obviously pot cores with sufficient volume (especially for the first coil close to the aerial) but rather moderate AL value and sufficient air gap are necessary for the input filters we need for this purpose. 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB Rik wrote: > Resonant circuits have the advantage to attenuate out-of-the-band signals > selective. But to my experience it can have 2 'hooks' : > 1. Attenuation of close to the band signals (eg. DBF39 / DCF39) is minimal > 2. When using unsuitable ferrites these filtere can even create > intermodulation-signals themselves > I did some experiments with bandpass filters but at the end a simple > attenuator did the best job (with me) and has the advantage that the > attenuation can easily be adjusted to optimum ratio between the wanted > signal and IM-products. > I managed to built a 3-stage 136kHz filter with about 700Hz bandwidth > (-3dB), but when I connected it to the big antenna it produced a lot of noise. > But I am sure that with the proper ferite materials and filter component > dimensions a usefull filter can be constructed. > It would be great if those who already constructed good filter would let > the others benefit from their experience. > > 73, Rik > > > Rik Strobbe ON7YD > rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be > Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4698 invoked from network); 15 Apr 1999 18:18:43 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Apr 1999 18:18:43 +0100 Received: (qmail 14800 invoked from network); 15 Apr 1999 17:18:44 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 1999 17:18:44 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Xpbi-0001Qg-00; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:07:18 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA21546 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:07:28 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA21542 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:07:25 GMT Received: from server.italway.it ([193.70.27.5] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10XpbJ-0001Pk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:06:54 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from a (ppp13.italway.it [193.70.27.62]) by server.italway.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA03195 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:12:23 +0200 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19990415171459.006741ec@server.italway.it> X-Sender: yasmin@server.italway.it (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:14:59 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Yasmin Tour Agenzia Viaggi" Subject: LF: LF receivers Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Lf guys. I followed with great interest discussion about deaf receivers, and i would like to add my point of wiew about the matter. Situation from my area , central Italy, is rather different compared with north europe. Few Italian stations active ( 3-6), and all located in ( max) 300 km circle from me, not difficult to copy. Nearest DX stations are HB9's( 400 km), not easy to heard cause Alps mountains wall greatly reduced signals with lot of qsb. Than next step is G land with lot of stations but over 1000 km distance, and few DL's and PA's( 700-800 km). Situation is just a little better for hams located in northern Italy. So you can imagine my wonder, and envy too, when i read about hams with 15-20 stations heard/ contacted in a week-end. Few hundreds milliwatts ERP, starting from a 10 mt vertical arms connected at 20-30 metrs long top hat, are enough to make several qsos in a such densely populated ham region but are rather poor to extablished long range qso. This means that hams located far away are often in trouble to heard distant stations;they need their correspondents work a suitable ERP, to have a chance . Infact, except particular conditions, 100-200 mw ERP are'nt enough to cover a 1000 km path, despite receiver conditions on other end, especially in conventional cw. So it's sure right try to improve receiver sistem, but, please, don't forget to work also on antenna and/or power output !! 73 de Marzio I5MXX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11082 invoked from network); 15 Apr 1999 18:49:01 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Apr 1999 18:49:01 +0100 Received: (qmail 19970 invoked from network); 15 Apr 1999 17:49:02 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 1999 17:49:02 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10XqEj-00026V-01; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:47:37 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA21956 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:48:03 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA21952 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:48:01 GMT Received: from arl-img-9.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.139]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10XqEa-00026R-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:47:28 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by arl-img-9.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id NAA23679 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:47:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:46:32 -0400 From: "Dave Sergeant" Subject: LF: Receive performance To: "rsgb_lf_group" Message-ID: <199904151346_MC2-7224-194A@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >From Dave Sergeant G3YMC I can answer Peter G8AFN's questionaire right now with no need to switch my receiver on on Saturday morning. DCB39 will be S9+18dB +/- a dB or so, as it always is apart from very occasional short lived QSB usually mid evening. Natural band noise will be around S3 at that time of day, but is S7 in the post dawn period. What my local QRN level will be is unknown as I may have S9 low energy fluorescents, or my local TV carrier generator may be on at S9 on 137.2. There is little to be gained from S meter reports because of the variation of sensitivity and linearity of these, even relative to background noise level. The real acid test as to whether you have enough sensitivity is as to how well you receive the natural background noise. You should be able to hear static crashes and natural thermal noise comfortably above your receiver noise, and if you have a tuned front end this should peak very nicely. If you have a totally quiet band background noise which seems to be mainly your internal receiver noise you have by no means enough sensitivity. At this QTH during the daytime the base background is around S3 with frequent and constant static bursts to S6 or S7. Loran is also there, but it seems somewhat variable and unpredictable at this QTH, being nothing like some report. A quick test to see whether intermods are your problem (in central England) is to listen on 138.0 - if you hear Rugby time signals you have a problem. This is the beat between Rugby on 60kHz and Droitwich on 198kHz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16143 invoked from network); 15 Apr 1999 21:33:01 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Apr 1999 21:33:01 +0100 Received: (qmail 14252 invoked from network); 15 Apr 1999 20:33:01 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 1999 20:33:01 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Xsn2-00055X-01; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:31:12 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA23600 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:31:35 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA23596 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:31:29 GMT Received: from merlins.force9.net ([195.166.128.23]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Xsmg-00055C-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:30:51 +0100 Received: (qmail 30232 invoked from network); 15 Apr 1999 20:29:39 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by merlins.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Apr 1999 20:29:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 10886 invoked from network); 15 Apr 1999 20:29:37 -0000 Received: from 64.hiper02.shef.dialup.force9.net (HELO prstesv1) (195.166.144.64) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 1999 20:29:37 -0000 Message-ID: <001a01be877f$1babe8c0$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: good signals - deaf receivers Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:32:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Dear all. This isn't the last word in sophistication but it does cheer-up the average HF tranceiver for 136kHz reception. Preamp/filter circuit at http://www.picks.force9.co.uk/circuits.htm#preamp On another subject; does anyone know of a list of LF NDBs for the UK? There is one near my GM QTH callsign "NGY" which I DF'd when I was up there and took some pictures.. http://www.pick.force9.co.uk/ngy.htm and when listening round I found I could here dozens of them. I'd be interested to know where they are! 73, Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23182 invoked from network); 15 Apr 1999 22:05:29 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Apr 1999 22:05:29 +0100 Received: (qmail 20344 invoked from network); 15 Apr 1999 21:05:30 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 1999 21:05:30 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10XtIw-0005Vu-01; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:04:10 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA23982 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:04:42 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA23978 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:04:40 GMT Received: from merlins.force9.net ([195.166.128.23]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10XtIn-0005Vo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:04:01 +0100 Received: (qmail 31571 invoked from network); 15 Apr 1999 21:03:03 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by merlins.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Apr 1999 21:03:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 12147 invoked from network); 15 Apr 1999 21:03:00 -0000 Received: from 64.hiper02.shef.dialup.force9.net (HELO prstesv1) (195.166.144.64) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 1999 21:03:00 -0000 Message-ID: <002501be8783$c5aa7220$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: good signals - deaf receivers Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:06:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Bother! What I meant was... > http://www.picks.force9.co.uk/ngy.htm and when >listening round I found I could here dozens of them. I'd be interested to >know where they are! > >73, Dave G3YXM. > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2163 invoked from network); 15 Apr 1999 22:50:22 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 15 Apr 1999 22:50:22 +0100 Received: (qmail 29260 invoked from network); 15 Apr 1999 21:50:23 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 1999 21:50:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Xu03-00060a-01; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:48:44 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA24409 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:49:09 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA24405 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:49:07 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Xtzn-00060X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:48:27 +0100 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA29707 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:48:24 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <1999041521543568199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:54:35 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: Re: LF: Receiving Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In the early days of 73kHz experimenting the only receiver equipment I had was a Datong converter and my mobile transceiver or the Drake 4c. The Daytong converter was designed for SWL use, had excellent sensitivity with a short length of wire but was easily overloaded when connected to an LF transmitting antenna. Yet most of my 73kHz DX contacts and some of the early 136kHz contacts were used with this receiver system. The secret was in the appropriate use of filters and a variable attenuator. The first stage in the filtering in my LF receiver is the transmitter antenna resonating and matching circuits. This was followed by two parallel tuned circuits, top-coupled; followed by an attenuator (comprising a potentiometer an a couple of resistors. With this circuit weak amateur signals could be extracted without any intermodulation from the high powered RTTY and broadcast stations However, it is well know that two parallel tuned circuits using capacitive top-coupling degenerates to a high-pass filter in the stop-band, i.e. gives good attenuation on the lower side of resonance but the attenuation is only around 40dB on the high side of resonance. If problems occur from signals higher than the filter resonance then it is better to use inductive bottom coupling on the filter. Since the advent of high performance broadband front-ends and VHF first IFs in modern receivers we seem to have lost the art of good receiver front end filter design - however there is a lot of design information around. I recommend Solid State Design for the Radio Amateur, by Wes Hayward W7ZOI. On page 117 (Advanced Receiver Concepts) he describes a tunable Cohn filter ( which is a four resonator inductive bottom coupled filter for 1.8MHz that can be scaled for other bands). Additionally, Reference [1], shows the use of filters in domestic radios. Fig 7, for example, uses switched filters to cover the long, medium and short wavebands. On the longwave filter a parallel bandstop filter is used to reduce interference from a known high-power transmitter. Reference [2] gives filter design data in a concise form, with appropriate formula and characteristics. There are many computer software filter design packages. Reference [3] is of one such package, analyzing the performance, for example, of a double-tuned parallel filter. The use of filters such as these are essential, particularly when using large antennas. The out of amateur band signals burned out the diodes of my MFJ-249 when I was trying to resonate my LF antenna for top-band. Having said all this, filters cannot help in my case of the in-band trash that comes from the Loran transmitter at Lessay on 100kHz. REFERENCES [1] Classified Radio Receiver Diagrams, E. M. Squire, Sir Isaac Pitman & Sons, 1943 [2 Radio Engineering, Volume Two, E.K. Sandeman, Chapman and Hall Ltd, 1949 [3] The ARRL Radio Designer. (computer software), The American Radio Relay League, Newington, CT06111, USA -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23643 invoked from network); 16 Apr 1999 09:34:37 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 1999 09:34:37 +0100 Received: (qmail 24129 invoked from network); 16 Apr 1999 08:34:41 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Apr 1999 08:34:41 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Y43j-000760-01; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:33:11 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA29559 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:33:19 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA29555 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:33:17 GMT Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Y43b-00075x-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:33:03 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA11554 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:37:42 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990416093127.2f3f94e6@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:31:27 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: good signals - deaf receivers In-reply-to: <001a01be877f$1babe8c0$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org At 21:32 15/04/99 +0100, G3YXM wrote: >On another subject; does anyone know of a list of LF NDBs for the UK? There >is one near my GM QTH callsign "NGY" which I DF'd when I was up there and >took some pictures.. http://www.pick.force9.co.uk/ngy.htm and when >listening round I found I could here dozens of them. I'd be interested to >know where they are! Hello Dave and others, a good list of NDB's and other radiobeacons can be found at : http://www.iol.ie/~markzee/wand.htm The list can be downloaded as Excel-file, so it is easy to use for looking up. By the way, NGY is located in New Galloway (55°10'38"N/04°10'02"W) and is on 399kHz according to this list. Another thing about the 'deaf receiver discussion' : I do not agree with the opninion that 100mW is not enough to work upto 1000km (and more) since I worked over 1600km (OH1TN) with an estimated ERP of about 70mW. I think that others (eg. G4GCV, GW4ALG) worked up to 1900km with ERP's arround 100 to 200mW. Now I am running about 140mW ERP and for the last weeks I have heard at least 4 stations regulary with 10 to 20dB S/N ('armchair copy') but I'm not able to attract their attention. Assuming that these stations run 1W ERP and that my 140mW ERP is 8.5dB below this, I should produce at least a 0dB S/N signal with them (sufficient for a CW QSO). So my pledge still is : work on your receiver-situation and don't be misled by S9+++ commercial stations that might give you the idea that your RX is OK. To my experience the keyword is 'intermodulation-surpression', so try to attenuate the incoming antenna-signal until the external noiselevel (normally caused by QRN) is just above the RX-noisefloor. You won't gain any sensitivity if the external noise is 10 or 20dB over the RX-noisefloor, it will only increase the IM-products. Remind that for every dB you can attenuate the incoming antenna-signal, the IM-products will be reduced by 2dB (so you may gain 1dB in absolute sensitivity). 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26021 invoked from network); 16 Apr 1999 09:44:26 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 1999 09:44:26 +0100 Received: (qmail 26812 invoked from network); 16 Apr 1999 08:44:31 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Apr 1999 08:44:31 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Y4Es-0007Ex-00; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:44:42 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA29522 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:28:21 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA29518 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:28:18 GMT Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Y3yn-00071P-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:28:05 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from walter (usero790.uk.uudial.com [193.149.90.44]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA07213 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:25:54 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <199904160825.JAA07213@fm215.facility.pipex.com> X-Sender: blanch@mailhost.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:27:15 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: LF Receive performance In-reply-to: <199904151346_MC2-7224-194A@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Entirely agree with Dave's remarks re S meters etc.I'd written an almost exactly similar email but hadn't got around to sending it.  Amazingly,  in spite of  the facts, DCB39 (or whatever it is) is the same here;  S9+20db; noise is S3; etc. However, I'm using an ICOM 737 (which is completely useless on 136 straight-through) with a 26db gain VERY SELECTIVE (250 Hz) front-end ahead of it which transforms its performance. It handles linearly the output from almost any length of wire I choose to shove at it as an antenna because nearly all the selectivity is applied before the signal gets as far as the amplifier grid.  "Grid" ???? - being an oldie and by definition not knowing anything about modern wirelesses, sorry, electronics,  I built it using a device I DO know about - an E180F valve.  Now all I have to do is to get my old  4-400 HF linear retuned to 136 and there'll be even more QRM.
BTW, (what does that mean, by the way?)  while attempting to calibrate the 737 S-meter so I knew roughly what it meant I discovered it has quite a temperature coefficient - between cold and warm it drifts 10 db.  So probably many others do as well, since all these Japanese rigs seem to be designed by a central design bureau and the only real difference between them is the front panel design. Oops, shouldn't I have said that?
Walter G3JKV

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14065 invoked from network); 16 Apr 1999 12:59:24 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 1999 12:59:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 6889 invoked from network); 16 Apr 1999 11:59:29 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Apr 1999 11:59:29 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Y7Ha-0000px-00 for dave@picks.force9.co.uk; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:59:42 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA31448 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:45:30 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA31444 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:45:28 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Y73U-0000jn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:45:08 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #34) id 10Y7zw-00041J-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:45:32 +0000 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:29:07 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:29:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Receiving Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DJ1ZB wrote: > But the > blocking of the receiver is not caused so much by these near-by signals but by > the sum of all stations delivered by the aerial, especially the LF broadcast > stations of course, and this sum can be reduced considerably by such an input > filter. > Very true. I found that the biggest problem was the 60kHz transmission from Rugby which, although it was not obviously audible, affected the general noise level and generated intermodulation. By experimentation, I use a combination of attenuation and an on- frequency tuned circuit before my Datong LF converter. I also found it useful to put a tuned circuit (actually an old ATU) between the converter and the "if strip" (an IC-706) at 28MHz because the output from the converter is flat over at least 2MHz. This is peaked at 28.136MHz, but gives a litte extra attenuation at 28.060 (MSF), 28.198 (BBC Radio 2) and various local medium wave transmissions at 28.5 - 30MHz. In addition, although it does not affect the band noise I use the old trick of reducing the RF gain control so that the noise is just below the AGC threshold. This improves the signal to noise ratio. If your receiver does not have a continuously variable RF gain, adding a 100 ohm potentiometer to the antenna input will work. Having dismantled my antenna loading coils to take to GW, I tried putting an odd untuned 15m of wire direct into the converter, and got a taste of what some newcomers must be experiencing. Certainly I could hear the big guns, G4GVC, G3KEV, G3YXM, but the general noise level was poor and - I cannot really explain this properly - it sounded strange. I presume this was because I was not hearing real noise, but the product of many out of band signals. In a recent posting, I listed some strengths of commercial signals, compared to an S2-3 noise level. I forgot to list the Loran signals which should be audible all the time to anyone in the southern half of England. These are a series of pulses (some say like galloping horses) and are best identified by listening on their centre frequency around 100kHz. If you can't hear this all of the time over most of the band, you need to improve things - I can hear it only when the local TVs are off. To repeat an earlier posting, if your own TV causes you QRM, try installing a braid breaker (make a crude one by putting 100pF capacitors in series with the inner =and= the outer of the coax). Hope that helps someone. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1504 invoked from network); 17 Apr 1999 10:20:19 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 17 Apr 1999 10:20:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 9959 invoked from network); 17 Apr 1999 09:20:29 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Apr 1999 09:20:29 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10YREM-00002r-00; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 10:17:42 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA08578 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:15:02 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA08573 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:14:59 GMT Received: from dub-img-10.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.140]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10YRBU-000025-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 10:14:44 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by dub-img-10.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id FAA14686 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 05:14:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 05:14:12 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Who called me today? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199904170514_MC2-725D-1087@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Lowfers, today (April 17, 1999) around 08.30 UTC I called cq in Slow-CW on 137.710 kHz. At 08.35 UTC a station came back on 137.703 kHz. I could read the first part of my callsign "o", but at 08.40 UTC some man-made noise came on (12-15 dB over atmospheric noise) and so I could not copy the rest of the call. I have put the spectrogram of that call onto my homepage http://www.dk8kw.home.pages.de follow the link "Some Spectrogram Pictures" to see it. Thank you, vy 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) P.S.: The man-made noise is still on while I write this message :-( From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6562 invoked from network); 17 Apr 1999 22:52:25 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 17 Apr 1999 22:52:25 +0100 Received: (qmail 26676 invoked from network); 17 Apr 1999 21:52:35 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Apr 1999 21:52:35 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10YcyD-00083Y-01; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:49:49 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA13925 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 21:49:48 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA13921 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 21:49:46 GMT Received: from mailout03.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.151]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10YcxW-00083D-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:49:06 +0100 Received: from fwd05.btx.dtag.de (fwd05.btx.dtag.de [194.25.2.165]) by mailout03.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 10YcWE-0007Sq-00; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 23:20:54 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (087321565-0001(btxid)@[62.157.17.196]) by fwd05.btx.dtag.de id ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 23:20:41 +0200 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 23:20:41 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Saturday Report - Especially for DF2PY and DL1SAN X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-online.de From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Dear OMs, on saturday, 17.April at 10.05 UTC I heard DF2PY (RST 549) in QSO with PA0SE who was just "noticeable". DF2PY has given his QTH as JN49AX (Ingelheim, west of Mainz, on river Rhine). On 17. April 17.00 UTC I heard DF2PY calling cq again, and after a pause I heard DL1SAN (RST 529) calling him, but without any response. QTH here JN68GN, 120 km ENE of Munich. Now it seems urgent for me to complete my PA, but there are other commitments, sri. 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28389 invoked from network); 18 Apr 1999 10:58:17 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Apr 1999 10:58:17 +0100 Received: (qmail 24281 invoked from network); 18 Apr 1999 09:58:31 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Apr 1999 09:58:31 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10YoJp-0007IV-01; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:56:53 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA18783 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 09:56:31 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA18779 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 09:56:29 GMT Received: from bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ([195.186.1.75]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10YoJB-0007IP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:56:13 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from phonakcom.ch ([195.186.13.121]) by bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ( with ESMTP id AAA62C3 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:56:05 +0200 Message-ID: <37199E55.B35694B0@phonakcom.ch> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:56:53 +0200 From: "Toni Bdrtschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: QSO with DJ5AO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >From HB9ASB, JN36pt Sorry OM, our Slow CW QSO today is not valid - I could not get your report. Another station called CQ exactly on our QRG in the middle of the QSO. We will try it again, 73 de Toni From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9742 invoked from network); 18 Apr 1999 23:15:18 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Apr 1999 23:15:18 +0100 Received: (qmail 10753 invoked from network); 18 Apr 1999 22:15:34 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Apr 1999 22:15:34 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Yzng-00070V-00; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:12:28 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA25660 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:11:17 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA25656 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:11:15 GMT Received: from cask.force9.net ([195.166.128.29]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Yzlq-00070G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:10:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 5009 invoked from network); 18 Apr 1999 22:06:52 -0000 Received: from relay3.force9.net (HELO relay2.force9.net) (195.166.128.25) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Apr 1999 22:06:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 14145 invoked from network); 18 Apr 1999 22:05:32 -0000 Received: from 25.hiper01.shef.dialup.force9.net (HELO prstesv1) (195.166.142.25) by relay3.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Apr 1999 22:05:32 -0000 Message-ID: <001c01be89e8$8a48d700$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: HF LF Net! Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 21:44:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Dear all, The 160m net tonight was poorly attended (1900z 1875kHz) and, as the year progresses the propagation will not be good at that time. Has anyone any suggestions as to an alternative net time and frequency for the summer? Do we try 80 on Sunday evening... or 40... or just give up! It is a useful forum for exchange of news which it would be a pity to lose. 73, Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21047 invoked from network); 19 Apr 1999 07:04:20 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Apr 1999 07:04:20 +0100 Received: (qmail 3797 invoked from network); 19 Apr 1999 06:04:39 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Apr 1999 06:04:39 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Z76y-0004FT-01; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:00:52 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA29218 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 06:00:32 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA29214 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 06:00:30 GMT Received: from ns.cro.cz ([193.179.196.2] ident=qmailr) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Z76U-0004FM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:00:22 +0100 Received: (qmail 29529 invoked from network); 19 Apr 1999 06:00:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from fw.cro.cz (HELO ns-int.cro.cz) (193.179.197.2) by ns.cro.cz with SMTP; 19 Apr 1999 06:00:17 -0000 Received: from radiohk.hk.cro.cz (ns.hk.cro.cz [172.27.1.2]) by ns-int.cro.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA07715 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:00:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc033hk.hk.cro.cz ([172.27.1.33]) by radiohk.hk.cro.cz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA00856 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:00:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by pc033hk.hk.cro.cz with Microsoft Mail id <01BE8A3A.A6385B00@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz>; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:00:11 +-200 Message-ID: <01BE8A3A.A6385B00@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> From: "Petr Maly" To: "'137 kHz'" Subject: LF: Q-ed loop Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:00:10 +-200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hi LowFers. Too lazy to make quality narrow input filter I tried another thing. I made a loop ant of a shape of square, 65cm by 65cm. Size mainly limited by my wife's tolerance. There are two windings on it. Main is 50 turns and the latter is separate 5 turns. Used wire is insulated copper wire diameter 0.3 mm only . The main one is tuned to resonance by varible capacitor abt 500 pF. Hot end is fed to gate of BF245. In collector (drain) there is the the latter winding in series with trimmer 2200 ohm. The 'polarity' of this secondary winding must tried to find positive feedback. By the trimmer the feedback can be easily adjusted so that you can find a point where oscillation begins. It you set feedback close to this point (not necessary to be very close) the ant has following behaviour. It tunes very sharply. It has to be retuned even within 136 kHz band. When it is carefully tuned to a certain fq (136 kHz) the fq 3 kHz distant (139 kHz) seems to have attenuation about 15 dB! I was surprised that the band is actually empty, full of smooth ground noise, which is different from what I experienced before on this band. Also, galloping horses can be clearly heard on 100 kHz. To tell the whole story I live in a block of flats so that there is a lot of TV sets and other appliances in vicinity. I tried to listen several times during this wekend but I have not heard any ham-looking signals. My QTH is Hradec Kralove which is about 100 km east from capital Prague. Locator is JO70WE. Who is closest to me? Is he willing to make a beacon for me for few minutes? Ones I saw 137 kHz in DX-Cluster too, but not this weekend. Are there any prefered times/fqs to try to listen on the band? 73! Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Return-Path: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 23269 invoked from network); 19 Apr 1999 07:35:30 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Apr 1999 07:35:30 +0100 Received: (qmail 5801 invoked from network); 19 Apr 1999 06:35:50 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Apr 1999 06:35:50 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Z7af-0004dH-00; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:31:33 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA29470 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 06:31:33 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA29466 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 06:31:31 GMT Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226] helo=gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Z7aU-0004dE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:31:22 +0100 Received: by gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA07895; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:32:07 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Message-ID: From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: AW: Saturday Report - Especially for DF2PY and DL1SAN Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:31:03 +0200 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hallo OM´s First of all many thanks to DJ8ZB for the signal report. I heard DF2PY in the morning and in the evening calling CQ for longer periods. The signal was 579 to 599. I called for several times but no response. The same happened a few weeks before when I heared LX1PD (rst 589 to 599). 73 de DL1SAN (Wolfgang) JN48WL > ---------- > Von: Hans-Joachim Brandt[SMTP:hajo.brandt.dj1zb@t-online.de] > Antwort an: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Gesendet: Samstag, 17. April 1999 23:20 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: LF: Saturday Report - Especially for DF2PY and DL1SAN > > Dear OMs, > > on saturday, 17.April at 10.05 UTC I heard DF2PY (RST 549) in QSO with > PA0SE who > was just "noticeable". DF2PY has given his QTH as JN49AX (Ingelheim, west > of > Mainz, on river Rhine). > > On 17. April 17.00 UTC I heard DF2PY calling cq again, and after a pause I > heard > DL1SAN (RST 529) calling him, but without any response. > > QTH here JN68GN, 120 km ENE of Munich. Now it seems urgent for me to > complete my > PA, but there are other commitments, sri. > > 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13968 invoked from network); 19 Apr 1999 09:53:11 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Apr 1999 09:53:11 +0100 Received: (qmail 22884 invoked from network); 19 Apr 1999 08:53:31 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Apr 1999 08:53:31 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Z9lF-0005wL-00; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:50:37 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA30382 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:50:30 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA30378 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:50:28 GMT Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Z9ks-0005wC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:50:14 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA09500 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:54:37 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990419094817.08bf13a0@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:48:17 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Q-ed loop In-reply-to: <01BE8A3A.A6385B00@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org At 08:00 19/04/99 +-200, OK1FIG wrote: >My QTH is Hradec Kralove which is about 100 km east from capital Prague. >Locator is JO70WE. Who is closest to me? >Is he willing to make a beacon for me for few minutes? Ones I >saw 137 kHz in DX-Cluster too, but not this weekend. Are there any >prefered times/fqs to try to listen on the band? > Hello Petr, welcome to the LF group. I think that the closest (and strongest) station for you is DF2PY in JN49AX, at about 560km from you. He has a very strong TX signal and has been heard at over 1000km (by EI0CF). I believe that DF2PY has no e-mail but he can be contacted via DJ8WL (who will probably read this message). I am willing to put a testsignal for you also, but the distance is about 800km and I have only about 125mW ERP at the moment. If you could hear me it would mean that you have an excellent RX situation ! Regarding best times : for groundwave at this time of the year the early morning might be best. Evenings are good for skywaves, but QRN can be very high as we go to summer. 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27222 invoked from network); 19 Apr 1999 10:46:07 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Apr 1999 10:46:07 +0100 Received: (qmail 32453 invoked from network); 19 Apr 1999 09:46:27 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Apr 1999 09:46:27 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ZAb8-0006Mq-01; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:44:14 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA30617 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:44:13 GMT X-Priority: 3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA30613 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:44:11 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ZAap-0006Mg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:43:56 +0100 Received: from mail.uni-kiel.d400.de (actually srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de) by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:43:10 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de by mail.uni-kiel.d400.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA24035; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:43:08 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <371AFA53.C2087C50@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:41:39 +0200 From: "P. W. Schnoor" Organization: Clinic of Nephrology, University of Kiel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586) X-Accept-Language: de, en To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: AW: Saturday Report - Especially for DF2PY and DL1SAN References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Gang, "Koenig, Wolfgang" wrote: > I heard DF2PY in the morning and in the evening calling CQ for longer > periods. The signal was 579 to 599. I called for several times but no > response. The signal of DF2PY always is well and stable above LORAN-C splatter here at the Danish border. He is troubled by a high local noise level I guess. I don't know how many times I called him over the last few months...frustrating. 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8787 invoked from network); 19 Apr 1999 11:34:59 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Apr 1999 11:34:59 +0100 Received: (qmail 10181 invoked from network); 19 Apr 1999 10:35:20 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Apr 1999 10:35:20 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ZBLg-0006lN-01; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:32:20 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA30958 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:30:44 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA30954 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:30:42 GMT Received: from hil-img-8.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.138]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ZBJo-0006l4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:30:24 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hil-img-8.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id GAA26712 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 06:30:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 06:28:50 -0400 From: "Holger 'Geri', DK8KW" Subject: LF: Q-ed loop To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199904190630_MC2-7285-4588@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Petr, OK1FIG wrote: >I tried to listen several times during this wekend but I have not heard any >ham-looking signals. My QTH is Hradec Kralove which is about 100 km >east from capital Prague. Locator is JO70WE. Who is closest to me? >Is he willing to make a beacon for me for few minutes? Ones I >saw 137 kHz in DX-Cluster too, but not this weekend. Are there any >prefered times/fqs to try to listen on the band?< Petr, yesterday a new station came up who I believe is closest to your qth. Ulf, DL3KS finished setting up his station in JO61, in the triangle between Dresden, Chemnitz and Leipzig. I guess, that he is less that 250 km from your location (without having the ability to verify this by calculating at the moment). He put out quite a strong slow-CW signal yesterday evening at 137.681 kHz, that was partly audible in my qth (JO52BH). Ulf can be contacted through packet radio. Are you able to receive slow-CW? All you need a program such as Spectrogram (freeware) and a computer with soundcard. If you have access to the internet, there are many sites with links to those programs and other longwave information (my own site has a "link"-page, http://dk8kw.home.pages.de). If you do not have access to the internet but own a computer with soundcard, I can send you a disc with the program by mail. All slow-CW activity now takes around 137.700, as a "calling" frequency for normal CW, 136.500 +/- seems to have established. I recently started to enter stations I heard or saw into the DX packet-cluster, so watch out for messages entered by DK8KW. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW, OK8AHC ;-) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 86 invoked from network); 19 Apr 1999 14:34:18 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Apr 1999 14:34:18 +0100 Received: (qmail 20092 invoked from network); 19 Apr 1999 13:34:39 -0000 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Apr 1999 13:34:39 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 27558 invoked from network); 19 Apr 1999 13:34:05 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Apr 1999 13:34:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ZE2G-0008Pt-01; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:24:28 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA00071 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:24:28 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA00067 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:24:26 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ZE1r-0008Pi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:24:03 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA17965 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:28:39 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990419142216.0877788e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:22:16 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: weekend report 16-18 april MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Stations 'seen' in slow-CW : DF3LP (529), HB9ASB (529), DJ5BV (559), DL3KS (M, strong QSB) Stations heard in 'normal' CW : DJ5BV (559), PA0LQ (589), G4GVC (559), PA0KDM (519), G3BDQ (539), HB9ASB (529), EI0CF (429), PA0AWN (549), DF2PY (579), G3YXM (589), IK5ZPV (429 - running only 200W RF), I5MXX (549). 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28649 invoked from network); 19 Apr 1999 22:52:18 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 19 Apr 1999 22:52:18 +0100 Received: (qmail 23256 invoked from network); 19 Apr 1999 21:52:40 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Apr 1999 21:52:40 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ZLo6-0006d3-00; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:42:22 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA06232 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:42:36 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA06228 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:42:34 GMT Received: from mta.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.3] helo=mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ZLne-0006Ys-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:41:54 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [203.96.106.154] by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990419213743.GBBG6531620.mta2-rme@[203.96.106.154]> for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:37:43 +1200 Message-ID: <371B9845.6DAB@xtra.co.nz> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:55:33 +1200 From: "Vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Q-ed loop References: <01BE8A3A.A6385B00@pc033hk.hk.cro.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hi all, The information from Petr is very interesting, and below I discuss aperture and noise figure considerations: Petr Maly wrote: > > Hi LowFers. > > Too lazy to make quality narrow input filter I tried another thing. > I made a loop ant of a shape of square, 65cm by 65cm. Size mainly > limited by my wife's tolerance. There are two windings on it. Main is > 50 turns and the latter is separate 5 turns. Used wire is insulated > copper wire diameter 0.3 mm only . The main one is tuned to > resonance by varible capacitor abt 500 pF. > Hot end is fed to gate of BF245. In collector > (drain) there is the the latter winding in series with trimmer > 2200 ohm. The 'polarity' of this secondary winding must tried to > find positive feedback. By the trimmer the feedback can be > easily adjusted so that you can find a point where oscillation begins. > It you set feedback close to this point (not necessary to be > very close) the ant has following behaviour. > It tunes very sharply. It has to be retuned even within 136 kHz > band. When it is carefully tuned to a certain fq (136 kHz) > the fq 3 kHz distant (139 kHz) seems to have attenuation about > 15 dB! I was surprised that the band is actually empty, full of > smooth ground noise, which is different from what I experienced before > on this band. Also, galloping horses can be clearly heard on 100 kHz. > To tell the whole story I live in a block of flats so that there is > a lot of TV sets and other appliances in vicinity. > I tried to listen several times during this wekend but I have not heard any > ham-looking signals. My QTH is Hradec Kralove which is about 100 km > east from capital Prague. Locator is JO70WE. Who is closest to me? > Is he willing to make a beacon for me for few minutes? Ones I > saw 137 kHz in DX-Cluster too, but not this weekend. Are there any > prefered times/fqs to try to listen on the band? > > 73! Petr, OK1FIG In New Zealand some LowFers have used tuned (frame) loops for receive only. The question was how small the area (loop aperture) could be to still be dominated by external noise (atmospheric QRN) rather than noise from within the loop and pre-amplifier. This depends winding technique, and whether shielding is placed around the windings (a high loaded Q is very desirable, but we also use SSB here in New Zealand, so a Q in the range of 50 to 100 is about as high as we seek). We operate in the 181 to 182 kHz region. The experimental answer to loop area that can just detect external QRN is about 1.5 metres per leg. Using a balanced winding with a pushpull pre-amplifier and RF grounded centre tap seems to be satisfactory for controlling common mode pickup (no shielding needed, and shielding does lower the Q). I have made smaller area tuned loops with a view to fitting them under the house (it would be very convenient), but they have turned out to not receive weak LF signals that I can receive via my active whip sited in my backyard. Petr is using some positive feedback (as in Q multiplier or regenerative techniques) to improve the apparent Q of his 0.65 x 0.65 metre loop. While it is clear that the selectivity is greatly improved, I am uncertain as to how the positive feedback influences the net noise figure. I doubt if positive feedback (equivalent to placing negative resistance in the loop) can increase the effective aperture of a loop, and there may even be some additional noise injected by feedback. While I wish Petr all the best with being able to receive amateur LF signals, the technique he is trying involves some questions about noise figure of "Q multipliers" used for LF receiving. Other readers may wish to comment. Regards, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6091 invoked from network); 20 Apr 1999 07:25:44 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 20 Apr 1999 07:25:44 +0100 Received: (qmail 1523 invoked from network); 20 Apr 1999 06:26:07 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Apr 1999 06:26:07 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ZTvy-00054r-01; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:23:02 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA10124 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 06:21:19 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA10120 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 06:21:17 GMT Received: from phoenix.earthlight.co.nz ([203.97.8.4] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ZTu6-00050r-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:21:07 +0100 Received: from Computer.earthlight.co.nz (ppp178.earthlight.co.nz [203.97.8.178]) by phoenix.earthlight.co.nz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA07752 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:20:47 +1200 Message-ID: <003901be8af5$482bc040$a80861cb@Computer.earthlight.co.nz> From: "Stan Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Fw: Information requested Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:15:16 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org -----Original Message----- From: Stan Andrews To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tuesday, 20 April 1999 18:06 Subject: Information requested >Hello ALL, > Am making a request for info about > >(a) a reflector address for lowfers in USA. We note that >WA2XTF is > experimenting on 136.75 kc/s. As some members of the ZL - VK > LF group are interested in this frequency, including an >application for a possible >authorisation to operate down on this segment it would be useful if we >could find out operational times.. > >(b) has there been any more information released re the Isle of Man >LF station scheduled for 279 kc/s ??? > Thanks STAN ZL4MB > >The Australian/New Zealand reflector is lofexp@egroups.com > > >************** > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17936 invoked from network); 20 Apr 1999 12:26:31 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by caffreys.force9.net with SMTP; 20 Apr 1999 12:26:31 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ZZXb-0000WJ-00; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:22:15 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA13436 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:20:15 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA13387 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:18:57 GMT Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ZZU4-0000RE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:18:37 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #34) id 10ZaQH-0006KL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:18:45 +0000 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:35:21 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:35:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Weekend Report Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Saturday 17 April Re-installed antenna and rig after portable operation (almost all of my station goe to GW). Very noisy band from next door's TV, light dimmer and computer. Some relief using my directional 1m loop antenna but this will only cope with one noise source at a time. Heard: G4GVC (599); EI0CF (559); G3KAU (much stronger than before at 5 9+10 9). Worked: G6NB (gave him 569, got 559); G3BDQ (579, 589 - a new one). Saw on Spectrogram screen: DF3LP ('O'). Sunday 18 April Local noise stayed on all day, ranging from S5 to 9+10dB. Heard: G3YXM (599); G4GVC (599); PA0LQ (349); PA0SE (559); G8?X (239); G3OLB (569). The local noise has not gone below S5 since I put the antenna back up - very frustrating. Note that I am having problems with my web site. For some strange reason it has just started to reject any page called activity.htm (which happens to be my main LF operation page). I can call it anything else but that!! So for a report on the GW/P trip, see the temporary address below. Note that the site's links to activity.htm do not work at present. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/active.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2490 invoked from network); 21 Apr 1999 13:30:31 +0100 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Apr 1999 13:30:31 +0100 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Zw4z-0003cM-00; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:26:13 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA24007 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:22:26 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA24003 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:22:23 GMT Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Zw0x-0003at-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:22:03 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10Zw12-0004i5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:22:09 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:06:26 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:06:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Web site Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Normal service appears to have been resumed, and my activity.htm page works once again. For those who have not seen it, the LF part of my personal web site includes lots of information on my own station and activity on the 73 and 136kHz bands, together with a large number of Spectrogram screen shots, a complete list of stations heard/worked on LF (a useful source of locators for calculating distance) and links to many other web sites of interest to the low bands enthusiast. It is currently getting almost as much interest from the US as the UK, with Holland coming a close third - shows where the budding interest is. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12031 invoked from network); 21 Apr 1999 16:34:32 +0100 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Apr 1999 16:34:32 +0100 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Zywj-0005iL-00; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:29:53 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA25267 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:28:25 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA25263 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:28:23 GMT X-Priority: 3 Received: from public2.thorcom.com ([194.75.130.20] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Zyur-0005hT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:27:57 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by public2.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #2) id 10Zyzb-00016R-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:32:52 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA12916 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:29:50 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990421162322.2defab3c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:23:22 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Signals Measured In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org At 13:52 18/04/99 PDT, PA0SE wrote: >To All > >This weekend I measured the strength of signals in the 2 km band. >... >Date UTC Station Level in dBm >17/4 0756 ON7YD -80 >17/4 0757 G4GVC -84 >17/4 0904 G3KAU -78 >17/4 1054 G3YXM -82 >18/4 0730 G3YXM -81 >18/4 0740 G4GVC -85 >18/4 0744 G3XTZ -80 >18/4 1019 G4GVC -84 >... First of all I want to thanks Dick for doing this measurements in such a well structured way. I made the attempt to use this data to calculate my ERP and came to a very strange result : a. my signal level at PA0SE : -80dBm b. path-loss for 131km (JO22GD - JO20IX) over medium ground : 60dB Result : my ERP = -80dBm + 60dB = -20dBm = 0.01mW However based on the antenna-dimensions and antenna-current I thought I had an ERP of 60mW (+18dBm) at the moment Dick measured my signal, so somewhere 38dB is missing ! Puzzled by this result I did the same calculations for G3YXM and G3KAU who have both about 1 Watt ERP as far as I know : G3YXM : a. his signal at PA0SE : -81.5dBm b. path-loss for 438km (JO22GD - IO92BK) over good ground/sea : 73dB Result : his ERP = -81.5dBm + 73dB = -8.5dBm = 0.14mW Based on an ERP of 1 Watt (30dBm) the difference is 38.5dB G3KAU : a. his signal at PA0SE : -78dBm b. path-loss for 347km (JO22GD - IO91VD) over good ground/sea : 69dB Result : his ERP = -78dBm + 69dB = -9dBm = 0.13mW Based on an ERP of 1 Watt (30dBm) the difference is 39dB It is remarkable that in all 3 cases the difference is almost the same (between 38 and 39dB). I determined the path-losses based on a graph that HB9ASB distributed via this list last year. For the 100% over-land paths I took medium ground, for the mainly sea paths (toward UK) I took good ground/sea (these differ only very little upto 500km). I wonder what is the cause of this 38/39dB difference ? The measurement made by Dick seem to be done in the right way and with good equipement. And the results (converted to S-points) look also reasonable to me. As a last 'exercise' I did the same calculations for G4GVC, G3XTZ and DF2PY whose ERP I don't know : G4GVC : a. his signal at PA0SE : -84.5dBm b. path-loss for 395km (JO22GD - IO92JP) over good ground/sea : 72dB Result : his ERP = -84.5dBm + 72dB = -12.5dBm = 0.06mW Adding the average difference of 38.5dB : his real ERP = 26dBm = +/-400mW G3XTZ : a. his signal at PA0SE : -80dBm b. path-loss for 353km (JO22GD - IO91SK) over good ground/sea : 69dB Result : his ERP = -80dBm + 69dB = -11dBm = 0.08mW Adding the average difference of 38.5dB : his real ERP = 27.5dBm = +/-560mW DF2PY : a. his signal at PA0SE : -87dBm b. path-loss for 344km (JO22GD - JN49AX) over medium ground : 71dB Result : his ERP = -87dBm + 71dB = -16dBm = 0.03mW Adding the average difference of 38.5dB : his real ERP = 22.5dBm = +/-180mW I wonder if G4GVC, G3XTZ and DF2PY have tried to determine their ERP, and (if so) to what result they came ? 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22157 invoked from network); 21 Apr 1999 17:11:00 +0100 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Apr 1999 17:11:00 +0100 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ZzXX-0006Ec-00; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:07:55 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA25579 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:08:16 GMT X-Priority: 3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA25575 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:08:13 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ah-img-2.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.153] helo=hpamgaab.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ZzXO-0006E8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:07:46 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaab.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.3) id MAA23500 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:07:11 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:05:49 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Signals Measured (reply to ON7YD) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199904211207_MC2-72D9-8850@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Rik, I made a somewhat similar caluclation last week comapring Peter, DF3LPs signal with DBF39. I used my MV 61 Selective Level Meter that has the ability to measure voltages between -130 dBm and +20 dBm with a accuracy of about 0.1 dB (if calibrated). I did not calibrate it, however, for comparison measurements it should be ok to compare the relative voltage levels. Peter has a signal of -116 dBm, equivalent to 0.35 uV at 75 Ohm. My minimum noise floor is -130dBm during the day, somewhat more at night. DBF39 has a signal of -46 dBm, this is about 1.12 mV (with less than 0.5 dB QSB). The transmitter in Burg has a RF power of 50 kW and uses an antenna that is 210 m high. If I assume, that this Antenna has a power loss of 3 dB compared to a full-wave 1/4 lambda groundplane, I can assume that this transmitter has a radiated power of 25 kW ERP. The transmitter in Burg is only 125 km away from my qth, DF3LP is 212 km away. If I assume that the field strength is reduced at the power of the distance, 1.7 times the distance is equivalent to about 9 dB. Adding those 9 dBm to Peter's signal, I come to a difference betwen power levels of DF3LPs and DBF39s signal of 60 dB. Using the 25 kW ERP as a basis, Peter's signal is in the vicinity of 25 mW ERP. I don't know Peters real ERP but I thought it was more. I assumed already 35 mW for my signal which is definetely weaker than Peter's wignal. I will continue to record relative voltage levels and see what I come up with. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23876 invoked from network); 21 Apr 1999 17:17:49 +0100 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Apr 1999 17:17:49 +0100 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Zze8-0006Ic-00; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:14:44 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA25671 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:15:05 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA25667 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:15:02 GMT X-Priority: 3 Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10Zzdy-0006IR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:14:34 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA07895 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:19:13 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990421171246.2f770cd4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:12:46 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Correction : LF: Signals Measured In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.19990421162322.2defab3c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Oops ... re-reading Dick's message I just saw that I misinterpreted something : I thought the given dBm values were already corrected for the 'antenna-gain' (or better loss, -33dB), but they are not ! This reduces the difference between the 'theoretical' values and the measurement results of Dick to 5..6dB. This is far more acceptable. I have to read more carefully ! 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12676 invoked from network); 21 Apr 1999 20:33:45 +0100 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Apr 1999 20:33:45 +0100 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10a2hW-0000rM-01; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:30:26 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA27197 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:30:39 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA27193 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:30:37 GMT X-Priority: 3 Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10a2h8-0000r3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:30:03 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.uni-kiel.d400.de (actually srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de) by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:29:37 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de by mail.uni-kiel.d400.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id VAA03276; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:29:33 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <371E2729.BD43810A@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:29:45 +0200 From: "Peter W. Schnoor" Organization: University of Kiel, Clinic of Nephrology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Signals Measured (reply to ON7YD) References: <199904211207_MC2-72D9-8850@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Gang, Hello 'Geri', 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW wrote: > [...] > Using the 25 kW ERP as a basis, Peter's signal is in the vicinity of 25 mW > ERP. I don't know Peters real ERP but I thought it was more. I assumed > already 35 mW for my signal which is definetely weaker than Peter's wignal. > > I will continue to record relative voltage levels and see what I come up > with. I was running approx. 1.2 A(rms) to my "Birch Tree Antenna", gain -28 dBi calculated with ELNEC by adding approx. 80 Ohms of feed point resistance. Since the path from here to UK is running mainly (approx. 90%) over salt water and to your site over (flat) soil only we could "measure" the differences between both path conditions taking the distances into account. I know that this was done a long time ago but it's a chance of confirming those measurements if we could find a station near the east cost of UK equipped with adequate accessories. 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4693 invoked from network); 22 Apr 1999 12:57:38 +0100 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Apr 1999 12:57:38 +0100 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10aI3s-0004zm-01; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:54:32 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA01842 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:54:20 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA01838 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:54:18 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from relay.bt.net ([194.72.6.60]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10aI3K-0004z5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:53:58 +0100 Received: from dub-img-9.compuserve.com by relay.bt.net with SMTP (PP); Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:27:03 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-9.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id HAA08780 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 07:22:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 07:20:57 -0400 From: "Holger 'Geri', DK8KW" Subject: LF: Calculation of radiated power To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199904220722_MC2-72FC-788B@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Lowfers, Dick wrote: >Concluding I would say that the only reliable way of finding radiated power is by measuring the field strength near the station. But preferably at say 3 or 4 kilometers distance and not 1 km as I did so that correcting for the near field component is not required.< I understand the difficulties about measuring/estimating the ERP that Dick has pointed out in his message. How about the relative measruement of comparing the field stregth of a station with known ERP (or at least with one where the ERP can be estimated with a reasonable accuracy, such as DBF39 with 25 kW) and using the distance to those station to correct for path losses using the CCIR curves? The sample in my previous message comparing DF3LP and DBF29 is quite simple, especially the path-loss calculation is simplified and maybe needs som emore attention. Rik, ON7YD mentioned, that it was not 9 dB difference as I briefly calculated from the difference in distance but only 4 dB according to the CCIR curves, so DF3LPs ERP would be another 5 dB weaker than my anticipated 25 mW ... acording to the figures stated by Peter I believe this to be too low? Two questions in this respect: 1. Can someone point me to an internet page where to find those curves? 2. How do I use CCIR field strength attenuation in V/m to convert this into voltage (e.g. in dBm) attenuation at the input of my receiver (75 Ohm)? Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27526 invoked from network); 23 Apr 1999 05:28:06 +0100 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Apr 1999 05:28:06 +0100 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10aXWt-0003YM-00; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 05:25:31 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA10226 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 04:22:08 GMT X-Priority: 3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id EAA10222 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 04:22:06 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from dub-img-12.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.142]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10aXTU-0003XX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 05:22:00 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by dub-img-12.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id AAA22793 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:21:26 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:20:08 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: OE QRV (relay from packet radio) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199904230020_MC2-7317-5133@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org VLF @EU de:OE3KLU 22.04.99 19:50 90 1844 Bytes OE on VLF QRV ! *** Bulletin-ID: FALTDVOE3XKR *** Read: 1 Path: DK0MAV!DB0FC!DB0CEL!DB0SHG!DB0ERF!DB0HOT!OK0PKL!OK0PPR!OK0PHL!OK0PBB Path: !OK0PAB!HA5OB!HG8GL!HA5KDF!HG1PSO!OE3XKR Sent: 990422/1844z @:OE3XKR.#OE3.AUT.EU [SW/VIENNA/OE3KLU] DP5.07 $:FALTDVOE3XK From: OE3KLU @ OE3XKR.#OE3.AUT.EU (Charly) To: VLF @ EU Hello VLF Friends ! >From today on - AUSTRIAN Hams with CEPT Class 1 allowd to use VLF Frequ. (see indo Below) Von heute an ist es Inhabern der CEPT-Klasse 1 in OE erlaubt auf VLF Funkbetrieb zu machen . QRG : 135.7 Khz - 137.8 Khz PWR : max 1W. ERP MODE: A1A + A1B Danke an die FMB fuer diese bewilligung. QUELLE: AFV/99 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------- Welcome OE! 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24776 invoked from network); 23 Apr 1999 19:10:41 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 23 Apr 1999 19:10:41 +0100 Received: (qmail 677 invoked from network); 23 Apr 1999 18:10:53 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Apr 1999 18:10:53 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10akMs-0002oN-00; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:08:02 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA16962 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:08:14 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA16958 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:08:11 GMT Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10akMW-0002nH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:07:40 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from blanch (usern026.uk.uudial.com [193.149.81.59]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id TAA22164 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:05:18 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990423190630.0079db70@mailhost.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mailhost.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:06:30 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: CFA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org For those who were wondering about how the CFA works, the following appeared in GM3HAT's ad for CFA's in "Radcom" this month (May 1999) Quote: " A conventional antenna in resonance surrounds itself with a fierce Induction Field out as far as one sixth of a lamda (his spelling), where 90% of the energy is held quarter cycle by quarter cycle in the Near Field. Only 10% manages to escape as the Radiation Field. In a Crossed Field Antenna ALL the energy flies away as the Radiation Field and so the aerials' surroundings are subjected to far less unnecessary disturbance. The new technique we use is called Poynting Vector Synthesis and we hold the original patents in the major industrial countries, and are applying for further claims" Unquote. So now we know how to multiply ERP ten times for the same input. We had better get onto it straight away! Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12072 invoked from network); 24 Apr 1999 12:46:38 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Apr 1999 12:46:38 +0100 Received: (qmail 31278 invoked from network); 24 Apr 1999 11:47:24 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Apr 1999 11:47:24 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10b0s5-0006nr-01; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 12:45:21 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA24467 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:44:07 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA24463 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:44:05 GMT Received: from dub-img-9.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.139]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10b0qY-0006nJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 12:43:46 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-9.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id HAA29110 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:43:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:43:14 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Further signals measured To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199904240743_MC2-733A-CDBD@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello, today I had the opportunity to follow a normal speed QSO between G3XTZ and G3YXM. I was not able to hear both stations mostly above noise level but I took a reading of the input level of both stations with my selective level meter MV 61: G3XTZ, distance to my qth 732 km: -121 dBm(75 Ohm) G3YXM, distance to my qth 826 km: -119 dBm (75 Ohm). So, G3YXM, despite the fact that he is further away, has a signal that is 2 dB stonger than G3XTZ. BTW: I found the source of the CCIR curves (you have to pay 35.- CH-Francs to download them). According to a curve for medium dry ground (is the U.K From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12092 invoked from network); 24 Apr 1999 12:46:44 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Apr 1999 12:46:44 +0100 Received: (qmail 1126 invoked from network); 24 Apr 1999 11:47:00 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Apr 1999 11:47:00 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10b0s6-0006nt-01; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 12:45:22 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA24474 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:44:34 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA24470 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:44:32 GMT Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10b0qz-0006nO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 12:44:13 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-125-213.bellatlantic.net [151.200.125.213]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA01197; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:43:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3720DA58.B91BE87E@bellatlantic.net> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:38:49 -0400 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: "The Last Radio Network" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org An earlier version of this article appeared in the Northern Observer, a Canadian newsletter for VLF experimenters, Issue 22, Nov. 1990. THE LAST RADIO NETWORK Long Waves from the Cold War by Bennett Z. Kobb, KC5CW The broadcast had that mechanical sound one associates with the spy-and-numbers stations on HF. But this one seemed all the more eerie to me because it was on 179 kHz, loud and distortion- free. Time ticks in the background, and a continuous announcement: "Good evening. This is station WGU-20. Eastern Standard Time nineteen hours, ten minutes, ten seconds. Good evening. This is station WGU-20. Eastern Standard Time nineteen hours, ten minutes, twenty seconds. Good evening. ..." No schedule, purpose, address or other information ever was announced. After midnight it switched to "Good morning." I recognized the callsign as typical of federal government stations, and occasionally saw it show up in logs in various monitoring publications. What I had heard was a test transmission from an RF zombie, a relic of an elaborate, lost scheme to use longwave to warn the public of nuclear attack. The station's QSL card appeared a few times in radio newsletters. It read: QSL Defense Civil Preparedness Agency / Radio Station WGU 20 / 179 Kilohertz / 1st 50 kW / All Solid State AM Transmitter / Chase, Maryland. What grabbed me was the illustration on the card: A silhouette of gallant Paul Revere on horseback, waving his hat, alongside a transmitting tower; and the initials DIDS. I knew that the Defense Civil Preparedness Agency is now known as the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). It is responsible for federal assistance in emergencies such as natural or man-made disasters or defense-related incidents. A visit to the FEMA library in downtown Washington revealed more about DIDS and WGU-20. DIDS stood for Decision Information Distribution System. A vast network of LF broadcast and feeder stations, DIDS was supposed to deliver audio messages directly to the public within 30 seconds after activation. In case of attack, DIDS was supposed to save 10- 17 million additional lives in its initial deployment (by 1979), and as many as 27 million more if developed further. Other systems exist. The CONELRAD (CONtrol of ELectromagnetic RADiation) procedure of the 1960s required radio stations to broadcast special announcements, turn on and off, and vary their schedules. This was supposed to warn the public while confusing missiles that might home in on broadcast signals. CONELRAD was eventually scuttled when targeting methods became more sophisticated. NAWAS, the National Warning System, is a sometimes noisy, partyline telephone that connects federal authorities with state and local emergency centers. It is still in use today. The Emergency Broadcast System (EBS) uses the press wires and major networks to distribute warnings over radio and TV. The annoying two-tone EBS signal, intended to trigger special receivers in broadcast stations themselves, elicits a Pavlovian "change the channel" response in almost anyone who hears it.[1] DIDS' creators in the Pentagon regarded these systems as prone to human error and delay. DIDS was envisioned as an automatic, fool- and spoof-proof supersystem that could switch on sirens across the country and convey information to officials via RTTY. DIDS' unique selling proposition, however, was that it would actually speak to citizens in their cars and directly in their homes, even waking each family from sleep. WGU-20 was built for $2 million in 1973 as the prototype of ten DIDS "distribution stations". These were to operate 50 kW at 167, 179 and 191 kHz with 700-foot towers. Besides the Maryland site, candidate sites for distribution stations were Maynard, MA; Mount Joy, PA; Gray, ME; Morristown, TN; Starke or Chiefland, FL; Mazomanie, WI; Carthage, Marshal, or Seagoville, TX; Alcova or Riverton, WY; Mendota or Selma, CA; Winslow, AZ; Hermiston, OR; and Wallula, WA. These ten stations were to cover the 48 contiguous states. Alaska and Hawaii were to have special, unspecified arrangements. All DIDS stations would be partially below ground level and protected against blast and electromagnetic pulse effects. The distribution stations would be activated by two "control stations" at 61.15 kHz, in Ault, CO and Cambridge, KS. These two stations would run 200 kW from 1,260-foot towers. Federal authorities would send the "go" signal by microwave and landline to the control stations. The ten distribution stations would then sign on and play taped messages to the public. But most Americans do not own longwave receivers. "The acquisition of home warning receivers would be a voluntary decision on the part of the individual citizen," says one DIDS manual. Therefore, the federal government had to persuade manufacturers to market and the public to buy radios whose sole programming would consist of either tests or actual Armageddon. This was hardly a prescription for an attractive consumer product. Nevertheless, DCPA commissioned Westinghouse to develop prototype units. One of them would attach to, or be installed inside, a TV set. If the TV was turned off when DIDS was activated, the DIDS circuit would deliver the message at "greater-than-normal volume" through the TV speaker to wake sleepers. The basic home receiver looked like any attractive radio for the kitchen. There was even a converter to attach to your car radio. Marketing DIDS to the public required some kind of user-friendly package. Paul Revere and the military-sounding "Decision Information Distribution System" were adopted for internal use. But Mr. and Mrs. America required a homey, more comfortable logo. Pentagon semioticians hit on Public Emergency Radio (PER) and PERKI, its puppy mascot, as the soft sell for Nuke Radio. Appropriately enough, the dog in the logo appears to have just awakened and is still confused. A vigilant watchdog he isn't. Behind PERKI is a family briskly walking to a country home. This Leave It to Beaver imagery probably came from the same government department that gave us the "duck and cover" films and jingles of the 50s (brilliantly portrayed in the movie Atomic Cafe). In case PERKI didn't warm Americans' hearts, military planners came up with a more persuasive hook. The Safeguard antiballistic missile system was designed to connect directly to DIDS. The Safeguard radar network could continuously track the flight paths of incoming enemy missiles. While the network dispatched ABMs to destroy the enemy missiles at high altitudes, its computers would automatically and instantaneously furnish a prediction to DIDS as to where an enemy warhead would land and explode if it was not successfully intercepted by an ABM. Your PER radio would then tell you exactly which area to "avoid." Sure beats morning traffic reports! Despite their obvious utility and sure-fire marketing prospects, DIDS, PERKI and the Radio Paul Revere eventually ended at the bureaucratic equivalent of a swapfest table. According to a letter from John Sullivan, FEMA telecommunications chief, the system "would have proved very costly to build, maintain and operate the number of simulcast stations required to blanket the continental U.S. "Secondly, it would have been a strictly one-way system. With all the information going down and nothing coming back up the line, it would not have been possible to obtain the necessary status reports, damage assessments, required actions, etc. Lastly, due to budget constraints, funding was discontinued. "Regarding WGU-20, the station has been deactivated, equipment removed and sold, and the land lease terminated. At this time there are no plans to pursue the program further."[2] Still, in my nightmare, I tune to 179 kHz and hear, "Good morning. This is not a test." Notes: 1. EBS was later changed to EAS, the Emergency Alert System, using data transmission and a mercifully shorter Attention Signal. At this writing, EAS is enmeshed in a patent dispute, with the FCC requiring all broadcasters to use EAS and the apparent patent holder requiring license fees from all broadcasters. EAS failed miserably at the FCC's ceremonial public unveiling of the system, though this fact was underreported. No actual EAS messages were successfully transmitted and received at the event. Instead, exhibiting vendors merely activated a cacophony of sirens and lights by manually switching them on. 2. I dimly recall somewhere in the literature that NOAA Weather Radio (NWR) was declared the successor to DIDS. In some respects NWR is similar to DIDS. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration uses NWR to broadcast warning messages directly to the public in the VHF band. NWR officials perennially, if privately, complain that not enough NWR receivers are being sold. Radio Shack is probably the most visible NWR receiver supplier. Thunder Eagle (www. thuneagle.com) of Vienna, Va. makes a very sophisticated NWR receiver for use by emergency authorities. Vice President Al Gore has declared a desire to make NWR receivers ubiquitous in American homes. * * * Bennett Kobb is a lifelong radio enthusiast, activist and journalist. He is the author of SpectrumGuide: Radio Frequency Allocations in the United States, 30 MHz-300 GHz. On his off hours he tunes the shortwave bands and works out with the U.S. Department of Juggling, a Washington, D.C. society for the circus arts. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3299 invoked from network); 24 Apr 1999 15:44:12 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Apr 1999 15:44:12 +0100 Received: (qmail 1977 invoked from network); 24 Apr 1999 14:44:58 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Apr 1999 14:44:58 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10b3dq-0008WV-00; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 15:42:50 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA26022 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 14:42:54 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA26017 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 14:42:52 GMT Received: from ah-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.154] helo=hpamgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10b3dT-0008WJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 15:42:27 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.3) id KAA02102 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 10:41:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 10:40:42 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Further signals measured (2nd version) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199904241040_MC2-7346-B157@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello, after the first version of my message was chopped after the dot of "U dot K dot ", here is another try without those dots: Today I had the opportunity to follow a normal speed QSO between G3XTZ and G3YXM. I was not able to hear both stations mostly above noise level but I took a reading of the input level of both stations with my selective level meter MV 61: G3XTZ, distance to my qth 732 km: -121 dBm(75 Ohm) G3YXM, distance to my qth 826 km: -119 dBm (75 Ohm). So, G3YXM, despite the fact that he is further away, has a signal that is 2 dB stonger than G3XTZ. BTW: I found the source of the CCIR curves (you have to pay 35.- CH-Francs to download them). According to a curve for medium dry ground (is the UK soil medium dry?) the difference in field strength between 826 and 732 km is around 3 dB, this would mean that G3YXM has an ERP that is 5 dB more than G3XTZ. True or not? Vy 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5883 invoked from network); 24 Apr 1999 16:06:19 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Apr 1999 16:06:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 25036 invoked from network); 24 Apr 1999 15:06:36 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Apr 1999 15:06:36 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10b3z7-0000Dm-00; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 16:04:49 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA26246 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 15:03:51 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA26242 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 15:03:49 GMT Received: from mashie.force9.net ([195.166.128.30]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10b3xj-0000Db-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 16:03:23 +0100 Received: (qmail 4741 invoked from network); 24 Apr 1999 15:03:53 -0000 Received: from relay3.force9.net (HELO relay2.force9.net) (195.166.128.25) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Apr 1999 15:03:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 20977 invoked from network); 24 Apr 1999 14:58:20 -0000 Received: from 27.hiper02.shef.dialup.force9.net (HELO prstesv1) (195.166.144.27) by relay3.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Apr 1999 14:58:20 -0000 Message-ID: <001601be8e63$e22785a0$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Re: Further signals measured (2nd version) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 16:05:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Geri etc. It could be true, Graham's aerial is higher than mine but his top loading comes down inverted V fashion which drastically lowers the average height. The RF power is about the same. By the calculations, the best erp I could be radiating is 1W but my house is under the aerial so it will be less. Probably the most significant difference is that Graham is on the West of London and his signal is launched across the city skyline in your direction whereas my take-off to the South East is good. So even if the calculated erp of two stations is the same we have to consider the surrounding terrain? 73, Dave G3YXM >G3XTZ, distance to my qth 732 km: -121 dBm(75 Ohm) >G3YXM, distance to my qth 826 km: -119 dBm (75 Ohm). > >So, G3YXM, despite the fact that he is further away, has a signal that is 2 >dB stonger than G3XTZ. > >BTW: I found the source of the CCIR curves (you have to pay 35.- CH-Francs >to download them). According to a curve for medium dry ground (is the UK >soil medium dry?) the difference in field strength between 826 and 732 km >is around 3 dB, this would mean that G3YXM has an ERP that is 5 dB more >than G3XTZ. True or not? > >Vy 73 > >Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8336 invoked from network); 24 Apr 1999 16:26:05 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Apr 1999 16:26:05 +0100 Received: (qmail 9007 invoked from network); 24 Apr 1999 15:26:52 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Apr 1999 15:26:52 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10b4IN-0000OG-01; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 16:24:43 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA26369 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 15:24:57 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA26365 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 15:24:54 GMT Received: from ah-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.154] helo=hpamgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10b4I8-0000OC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 16:24:28 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.3) id LAA16300 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:24:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:22:52 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Re: Further signals measured (2nd version) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199904241122_MC2-733F-4014@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Dave, G3YXM wrote: >So even if the calculated erp of two stations is the same we have to consider the surrounding terrain?< yes, Dave, it looks like this might make a difference. My first thought was that only obstacles that are in the magnitude of the wavelength play a role. But it may well be, that a city or a large forest (with all the moisture trapped in the trees) or a lake or something like this makes a difference in how your signal is transferred to the receiving station. I will further investigate, but at least my observations show that your signal is 2 dB stronger here in the East compared to Graham's (I would wish my signal would be a couple of dB stronger, still my ODX is 402 km, which is ON7YD ...). 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) http://www.dk8kw.home.pages.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28526 invoked from network); 24 Apr 1999 22:33:44 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Apr 1999 22:33:44 +0100 Received: (qmail 2416 invoked from network); 24 Apr 1999 21:34:32 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Apr 1999 21:34:32 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bA2C-0003aW-01; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:32:25 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA29700 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 21:32:47 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA29696 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 21:32:45 GMT Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bA1u-0003aT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:32:06 +0100 Received: from [193.237.77.63] (helo=default) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10bA1l-00049B-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 21:31:57 +0000 From: "Graham Phillips" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Re: Further signals measured (2nd version) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:30:28 +0100 Message-ID: <01be8e99$ac714f00$0100007f@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Oops , I forgot the fifth aerial option, Convert to a Crossed Field Antenna, and use the old Poynting Vector Synthesis to really get all the RF energy flying. I may also use one in the mobile installation 73 de Graham B. Phillips - G3XTZ. g3xtz@rgcomms.demon.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1385 invoked from network); 24 Apr 1999 23:01:09 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 24 Apr 1999 23:01:09 +0100 Received: (qmail 12164 invoked from network); 24 Apr 1999 22:01:27 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Apr 1999 22:01:27 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bASm-0003ok-00; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:59:52 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA29926 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:00:24 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA29922 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:00:22 GMT Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bASd-0003og-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:59:43 +0100 Received: from [193.237.77.63] (helo=default) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10bASU-0007Vs-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 21:59:34 +0000 From: "Graham Phillips" To: "RSGB L.F. Group" Subject: LF: Re: Re: Further signals measured (2nd version) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:58:56 +0100 Message-ID: <01be8e9d$a644f7e0$0100007f@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hi Geri, Dave and all LF'ers. I am following with great interest the debate on our relative signals. G3YXM / G3XTZ ) As Dave said, my vertical is 20 meters high, but the two 10 meter loading wires from the top have to slope down at about 45 degrees ( to fit in the available space ). I have always thought that the effective loss of height was a price worth paying to avoid the need for a much higher value of loading inductance ( and loss ) at the base of the vertical. However, I am now FORCED into the position of HAVING to find a few more dBs of signal !!!! I would like to hear what others may think of the options: (1) eliminate the top capacity loading, and wind a bigger loading coil. ( 2 ) Fit a small, lightweight inductance at the top of the vertical and reduce the length of the capacity wires. ( 3 ) A combination of both. ( 4 ) Move. I would prefer the fourth option, since the local QRM here is curtailing activity severely, but it is also the most difficult ! 73's all, I will watch with interest for ideas, and I will conduct a test to try the effectiveness of the preferred one. Graham B. Phillips - G3XTZ. g3xtz@rgcomms.demon.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24965 invoked from network); 25 Apr 1999 03:18:13 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 1999 03:18:13 +0100 Received: (qmail 27848 invoked from network); 25 Apr 1999 02:19:02 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Apr 1999 02:19:02 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bEQx-0005zg-00; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 03:14:15 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA32341 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 02:14:05 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id CAA32337 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 02:13:58 GMT Received: from mta.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.3] helo=mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bEQf-0005zd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 03:13:57 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [202.27.181.43] by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990425021514.DFFM6531620.mta2-rme@[202.27.181.43]> for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 14:15:14 +1200 Message-ID: <37226F82.5B8A@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 13:27:30 +1200 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Further signals measured (2nd version) References: <01be8e9d$a644f7e0$0100007f@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Graham Phillips wrote: > > Hi Geri, Dave and all LF'ers. > > I am following with great interest the debate on our relative signals. > G3YXM / G3XTZ ) > > As Dave said, my vertical is 20 meters high, but the two 10 meter loading > wires from the top have to slope down at about 45 degrees ( to fit in the > available space ). I have always thought that the effective loss of height > was a price worth paying to avoid the need for a much higher value of > loading inductance ( and loss ) at the base of the vertical. However, I am > now FORCED into the position of HAVING to find a few more dBs of signal !!!! > I would like to hear what others may think of the options: (1) eliminate > the top capacity loading, and wind a bigger loading coil. ( 2 ) Fit a > small, lightweight inductance at the top of the vertical and reduce the > length of the capacity wires. ( 3 ) A combination of both. ( 4 ) Move. > > I would prefer the fourth option, since the local QRM here is curtailing > activity severely, but it is also the most difficult ! This seems a situation that would benefit from a separate RECEIVE ONLY antenna. The bigger and better the LF transmitting antenna, the wider the near field becomes from the point of view of local QRM becoming a nuisance. Several ZL LF experimenters, including myself, use separate antennas for receive only. An active whip, with JFET source follower, sited "down the backyard" can give a welcome improvement in S/N compared to receiving off the "big wire". There are even better types of specialised receive only antennas, but they all rely on being located in genuinely "quiet" spots for QRM. Regards, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2814 invoked from network); 25 Apr 1999 05:18:19 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 1999 05:18:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 9757 invoked from network); 25 Apr 1999 04:19:08 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Apr 1999 04:19:08 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bGFI-00070g-01; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 05:10:20 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA00407 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 04:10:10 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id EAA00402 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 04:10:07 GMT Received: from ah-img-2.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.153] helo=hpamgaab.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bGF0-00070d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 05:10:02 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaab.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.3) id AAA01974 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 00:09:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 00:09:46 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Re: G3XTZ's options To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199904250009_MC2-734C-A37F@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Graham, >73's all, I will watch with interest for ideas, and I will conduct a test to >try the effectiveness of the preferred one. there is an option number (6): Give up transmitting on longwave, get hold of a selective level meter receiver and try to raise other prople's ambition by comparing their signal level to others ;-) Dont' worry, Graham, you signal was strong enough here in Northern Germany. Giving you a "conventional" report by ear, I would have said, a full 559 (off course with Dave's signal being nearly 569)! Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2761 invoked from network); 25 Apr 1999 12:14:52 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 1999 12:14:52 +0100 Received: (qmail 31615 invoked from network); 25 Apr 1999 11:15:43 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Apr 1999 11:15:43 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bMrL-0001lY-01; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 12:14:03 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA02860 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 11:13:56 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA02856 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 11:13:53 GMT Received: from alpha1.dii.unisi.it ([193.205.7.2] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bMqu-0001lV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 12:13:36 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from pcfasec4.dii.unisi.it (pcfasec4.dii.unisi.it [193.205.7.37]) by alpha1.dii.unisi.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA13220 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 13:12:43 +0200 Received: by pcfasec4.dii.unisi.it with Microsoft Mail id <01BE8F1C.B3169350@pcfasec4.dii.unisi.it>; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 13:08:23 +0200 Message-ID: <01BE8F1C.B3169350@pcfasec4.dii.unisi.it> From: "valerio Gabbani" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: df2py hrd Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 13:08:22 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello gang, Sunday morning 25/4/99 DF2PY Heard in Italy JN53KX with RST 549 and a lot of QSB. I called him several time, but no QSO was made. ' 73 IK5ZPV, Valerio From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25622 invoked from network); 25 Apr 1999 15:33:44 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 1999 15:33:44 +0100 Received: (qmail 30535 invoked from network); 25 Apr 1999 14:34:06 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Apr 1999 14:34:06 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bPrW-0003OK-00; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 15:26:26 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA04238 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 14:24:22 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA04234 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 14:24:19 GMT Received: from mashie.force9.net ([195.166.128.30]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bPp5-0003Mj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 15:23:55 +0100 Received: (qmail 15597 invoked from network); 25 Apr 1999 14:24:34 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 1999 14:24:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 31002 invoked from network); 25 Apr 1999 14:24:02 -0000 Received: from 193.hiper01.shef.dialup.force9.net (HELO prstesv1) (195.166.142.193) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Apr 1999 14:24:02 -0000 Message-ID: <000201be8f27$8bd8f2a0$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Re: G3XTZ's options Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 15:18:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Graham and co. What about something like Werner ON6ND was using (see picture in LF gallery www.wireless.org.uk/gallery/gallerlf.htm ). He has created a large diameter section at the top of his tower by fabricating a cylinder out of wire mesh. Unfortunately it does require the supporting structure to be insulated...... A pure vertical does seem to work very well as Steve GW4ALG proves when he has his balloon extension taking his to 20m high. Mike G3XDV suggested a top loading coil before the loading wires would throw the current out of phase with that in the main vertical and so reduce the cancellation..... Or you could just move! Incidentally, if my theory about the London attenuation is true then our signals should be more comparable to the West? 73, Dave G3YXM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9974 invoked from network); 25 Apr 1999 23:29:28 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 1999 23:29:28 +0100 Received: (qmail 23326 invoked from network); 25 Apr 1999 22:29:53 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Apr 1999 22:29:53 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bXNb-0007GQ-00; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 23:28:03 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA08724 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 22:28:03 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA08720 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 22:28:01 GMT Received: from mars.cableol.net ([194.168.4.224]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bXMw-0007GN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 23:27:22 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from miranda-29.cableol.net by mars.cableol.net; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/22Feb96-0403PM) id AA12534; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 23:27:43 +0100 Message-ID: <37239424.FF3C0286@cableol.co.uk> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 23:16:05 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Further signals measured (2nd version) References: <01be8e9d$a644f7e0$0100007f@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Graham Phillips, G3XTZ wrote: > . . . . my vertical is 20 meters high, but the two 10 meter loading > wires from the top have to slope down at about 45 degrees ( to fit in the > available space ). I have always thought that the effective loss of height > was a price worth paying to avoid the need for a much higher value of > loading inductance ( and loss ) at the base of the vertical. . . . . > I would like to hear what others may think of the options: (1) eliminate > the top capacity loading, and wind a bigger loading coil. ( 2 ) Fit a > small, lightweight inductance at the top of the vertical and reduce the > length of the capacity wires. ( 3 ) A combination of both. ( 4 ) Move. > They all sound like good options! I use a basic 12 m vertical with good results. But the improvement with my 8 m balloon-supported extension (making it a 20 m vertical) is significant (perhaps, +6 dB?). So, it seems to me that antenna height is very important. Therefore, I am not keen on using sloping top wires which lower the effective antenna height. On the other hand, I'm quite happy to compensate for the low top capacitance of my vertical by adding a few more mH to the loading coil. I guess I see things differently: for me, the power loss in the additional inductance is a price worth paying to avoid lowering the effective antenna height through the use of sloping top wires! It's now time to try putting some numbers to this puzzle! Any offers? By the way, Graham, if you decide on option (4), I still need GI ; GJ; GU; and GD!! Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG steve.rawlings@cableol.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22573 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1999 01:15:58 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Apr 1999 01:15:58 +0100 Received: (qmail 28119 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1999 00:16:52 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 1999 00:16:52 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bYzj-0008CA-01; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 01:11:31 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA09996 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 00:11:11 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA09992 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 00:11:09 GMT Received: from mailout01.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.149]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bYzP-0008C7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 01:11:12 +0100 Received: from fwd13.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.173]) by mailout01.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 10bYzM-00054M-00; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 02:11:08 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (087321565-0001(btxid)@[193.159.112.13]) by fwd13.btx.dtag.de id ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 02:11:07 +0200 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 02:11:07 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Weekend Report 24/25. April X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-online.de From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Dear all, propagation conditions seemed to be very good this weekend when I listened into the band around midday. QTH: JN68GN, 120 km ENE of Munich. 24. April 1999: 09.53 UTC heard DF9SD testing (vvv de) RST 439 09.55 UTC heard DJ7RD calling cq RST 439 10.03 UTC heard G3YXM RST 439 in QSO with G3XTZ RST 339, signing off at 10.09. 12.04 UTC more QRN than in the morning, DF9SD still testing RST 439 25. April 1999: 09.20 UTC heard DF2PY RST 569 with cq 09.21/22 UTC heard DJ2EY RST 559 in QSO with DF7RD RST 559 09.28 heard IK5PZV RST 549 with cq 09.32 UTC heard DF9SD RST 439 testing (vvv de) 09.33 UTC heard DJ2EY calling IZ5PZV 09.35 UTC heard DJ2EY in QSO with HB9DCE RST 549 10.06 - 10.20 UTC: HAD MY FIRST LF QSO, with DJ2EY (QTH Gauting near Munich, name Rudi) and got RST 549 using my TBA810S PA with 3 watts output at 15 Volts (previously employed for antenna measurements only; now I am looking for more powerful Audio ICs). Rudi is listening succesfully on LF using a SIEMENS E410 receiver, designed around 1969, three ganged rf circuits and two rf amps (40673) ahead of the mixer (also 40673). His TX PWR abt 20 watts to an inverted L, but still rather high ground loss, 140 ohms. 10.25 UTC I5MXX RST 439 is calling DF2PY repeatedly, but DF2PY had problems to copy him. 15.30 UTC DF9SD still testing RST 439. Next weekend QRL, sri. 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20610 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1999 07:34:55 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Apr 1999 07:34:55 +0100 Received: (qmail 8981 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1999 06:35:50 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 1999 06:35:50 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bej6-0002PU-00; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 07:18:44 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA11809 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 06:18:38 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA11805 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 06:18:34 GMT Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226] helo=gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10beio-0002PR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 07:18:26 +0100 Received: by gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA00350; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:14:13 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Message-ID: From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Weekend 24. 25.Apr Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:18:06 +0200 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Hi LowFers. > Worked HB9ASB (579)on saturday morning. On sunday mornig DF2PY (599). Tried both stations several weeks before. Now I improved my Ant and PA. Heared a bacon on 137.5 kHz, DF9SD from friday until monday morning, runnin the whole time. Nerving...... Where is the QTH of DF9SD. How to get in touch with him. 73 de DL1SAN Wolfgang(JN48WL) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21829 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1999 07:48:26 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Apr 1999 07:48:26 +0100 Received: (qmail 15142 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1999 06:49:21 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 1999 06:49:21 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10beoY-0002U7-00; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 07:24:22 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA11845 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 06:24:22 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA11841 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 06:24:20 GMT Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10beoO-0002U4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 07:24:12 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id CAA25656; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 02:28:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA01077; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 02:23:06 -0400 Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by umrsvr.hsd.utc.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Feb96-0334PM) id AA11338; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 02:21:51 -0400 Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:22:11 +0100 Message-ID: <205F4B3C4BCED21184C7006097630A8A069266@nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com> From: "Soegiono, Gamal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: weekend report & bad news Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:22:10 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Dear all, In my new QTH (as well as old QTH) I fight against man-made-noise limiting the receiveable LF stations. The one and only station I ever heard is/was DA0LF and DA0LF/p in May/June 1998. Saturday April 24/1999 ================= While testing a passive, untuned magnetic loop by chance heard morse code on 136.9 kHz - that made me electrified! 13:00 - 13:20 UTC DF2PY calling (desperately) CQ, no responds from other stations noticed again around 16:00 UTC DF2PY calling CQ for long periods Sunday April 25/1999 ================= somewhere in between 08:00 and 11:00 UTC DF2PY calling CQ for long periods after a while appears to have a QSO with someone (could not copy enough to be sure, but recognized exchange of numbers - RST?) finally calling CQ again for long periods ==================================== Peter Bobek, DJ8WL in hospital ==================================== Perhaps you all know that before and after Easter Holidays Peter was suffering something like an influenza, as he said, preventing him from attending the german "LF fieldday". On saturday Peters family told me bad news: Peter stays in the hospital since last monday due to a serious decease (I didn't ask much about it - Peters family sounded really concerned). For those who want to send convalescent wishings: Peter Bobek Am Ruthsenbach 9 D-64380 Rossdorf Germany ==================================== Best 73 Gamal Soegiono (SWL) 50N01 / 08E27 / JO 40 fa soegiono@nm.hsd.utc.com soegiono@nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28679 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1999 08:48:25 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Apr 1999 08:48:25 +0100 Received: (qmail 23314 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1999 07:48:52 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 1999 07:48:52 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bg6l-00033T-00; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:47:15 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA12286 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 07:46:59 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA12282 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 07:46:56 GMT Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bg6H-00033N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:46:46 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA08750 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:51:26 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990426084447.2e1f0d52@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:44:47 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: weekend report 23/25 april 99 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Rather quite weekend with much less activity than the weekends before. Stations 'seen' in slow-CW : DF3LP (529), DK8KW (419), HB9ASB (539), IK1ODO (529) Stations heard in 'normal' CW : G3YXM (579), PA0LQ (589), GW4ALG (529), G4GVC (549), HB9ASB (539), DJ7RD (219), DJ5DI (549), DL1SAN (219), DF2PY (589), G3KEV (589), G3BDQ (529), G3XDV (529) Regarding the 219 report for DJ7RD and DL1SAN : I could hear respectively DF2PY and HB9ASB in QSO with them and although they were not really audible here I could see their signal with spectogram what means that a slow-CW QSO should be possible. Further I noticed the attempt of a station to get in the the 'Guinness Book of Records' for the longest CQ call ever (non-stop over 20 minutes) ... 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27204 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1999 10:50:52 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Apr 1999 10:50:52 +0100 Received: (qmail 807 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1999 09:51:47 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 1999 09:51:47 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bhxo-00044T-00; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:46:08 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA13025 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:45:42 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA13021 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:45:40 GMT Received: from bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ([195.186.1.75]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bhx6-00044L-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:45:25 +0100 Received: from phonakcom.ch ([195.186.58.36]) by bw85zhb.bluewin.ch ( with ESMTP id AAA6B42 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:45:10 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <37243832.51C6C836@phonakcom.ch> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:56:02 +0200 From: "Toni Baertschi" Organization: Phonak Communications AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: weekend report 23/25 april 99 References: <3.0.1.16.19990426084447.2e1f0d52@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Further I noticed the attempt of a station to get in the the 'Guinness Book > of Records' for the longest CQ call ever (non-stop over 20 minutes) ... > Sorry friends, I forgot my running TX while I was busy in the kitchen. 73 de Toni, HB9ASB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29786 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1999 11:01:38 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Apr 1999 11:01:38 +0100 Received: (qmail 5769 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1999 10:02:33 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 1999 10:02:33 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bi8i-0004A1-01; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:57:24 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA13076 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:57:32 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA13072 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:57:30 GMT Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bi8Y-00049y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:57:15 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA19159 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:01:53 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990426105512.08575f54@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:55:12 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: RX measurements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Last week I did some RX measurements on my receiver and antenna : 1. The sensitivity of my receiver (Kenwood TS440 - 500Hz CW filter) on 136kHz is 0.5µV (-113dBm) for 10dB S/N. As signal source I used a Rohde&Schwarz SMS2. Assuming that an 'exercised ear' easily can read a 0dB S/N CW signal this means that signals down to -123dBm could be read (if no QRM/QRN) 2. Using a Rohde&Schwarz URV3 millivoltmeter (10kHz-2GHz) I measured the antenna-voltage. There was almost no difference between the voltage with a 50 Ohm load and the RX input as load, so the RX input is close to 50 Ohm. With the antenna (13m high and 26m long inverted-L tuned to 136kHz) directly to the receiver input the voltage measured was almost constant at 35mV during daytime but was going up and down between 50mV and 200mV during the night. Insering a low-pass filter (-3dB at 170kHz) between antenna and RX reduced the voltage to 30mV during daytime and 30 to 120mV at night. Conclusions : - When using a 136kHz transmit antenna for receiving (without additional filtering the signal at the RX input is in the range of 35 to 200mV (-16 to -1dBm) and will cause severe intermodulation to most receivers, especially at night. - Adding a low-pass filter doesn't change the antenna-voltage during daytime (only -1.3dB) and reduces the antenna-voltage only minimal (-4.5dB) at night. This means that most of the sources that cause this high antenna-voltage are below 200kHz. - The measurements of PA0SE (results distributed to the list last week) indicate that most 136kHz ham signals are in the range of -75 to -95dBm. This is 28 to 48 dB above the 0dB S/N level of my RX. This means that a 20dB (or even 30dB) attenuator can be put between antenna and RX without loosing any sensitivity. Adding the attenuator however will increase the IM-behavior of the receiver by 40dB (for 20dB attenuation) or even 60dB (for 30dB attenuation). Although a broadband 'ohmic attenuator' already will bring a major improvement, a 'selective' attenuator made by a series of loose-coulped high-Q band-pass filters will be even better provided the correct ferrite material is used to prevent bad IM behavior of the filter itself. 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21816 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1999 12:43:22 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Apr 1999 12:43:22 +0100 Received: (qmail 14959 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1999 11:43:49 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 1999 11:43:49 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bjlf-00055k-01; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:41:43 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA14056 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:41:38 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA14052 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:41:35 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bjlF-00055e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:41:17 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #34) id 10bkhP-0001Ow-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:41:24 +0000 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:34:37 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:34:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: "The Last Radio Network" Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3720DA58.B91BE87E@bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Andre Kesteloot quoted KC5CW: > Other systems exist. The CONELRAD (CONtrol of ELectromagnetic > RADiation) procedure of the > 1960s required radio stations to broadcast special announcements, turn > on and off, and vary their > schedules. This was supposed to warn the public while confusing > missiles that might home in on > broadcast signals. CONELRAD was eventually scuttled when targeting > methods became more > sophisticated. This was a tiny part of an interesting article but solved a 30-year- old mystery for me. The word Conelrad appears in a 60s Bob Dylan song (I imagine this was Talking World War 3 Blues but I don't have my vinyl collection here at work!) and I have always assumed it to refer to a commercial name, though it's obviously a reference to something to do with radio. Now I know. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28269 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1999 13:10:20 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Apr 1999 13:10:20 +0100 Received: (qmail 17851 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1999 12:10:48 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 1999 12:10:48 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bkBz-0005Ma-01; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:08:55 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA14269 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:09:05 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA14265 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:09:03 GMT Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bkBm-0005MX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:08:43 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA09682 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:13:16 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990426130635.2cc730b0@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:06:35 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: weekend report 23/25 april 99 In-reply-to: <37243832.51C6C836@phonakcom.ch> References: <3.0.1.16.19990426084447.2e1f0d52@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org At 11:56 26/04/99 +0200, you wrote: >> Further I noticed the attempt of a station to get in the the 'Guinness Book >> of Records' for the longest CQ call ever (non-stop over 20 minutes) ... >> > >Sorry friends, I forgot my running TX while I was busy in the kitchen. > >73 de Toni, HB9ASB > > Hi Tony, It wasn't you I heard last weekend with a never ending CQ, so I have to warn you that you have a challenger for the notion in the Guinnes Book of Records ... :) 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2051 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1999 13:29:34 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Apr 1999 13:29:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 6994 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1999 12:30:30 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 1999 12:30:30 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bkUR-0005Ts-00; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:27:59 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA14468 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:28:01 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA14464 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:27:59 GMT Received: from tmsl.tms-ltd.com ([62.172.160.226] ident=firewall-user) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bkTx-0005Th-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:27:32 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by tmsl.tms-ltd.com; id NAA01863; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:31:50 +0100 (BST) Received: from unknown(193.150.182.141) by tmsl.tms-ltd.com via smap (3.2) id xma001858; Mon, 26 Apr 99 13:31:44 +0100 Received: by tmst9400.tms-ltd.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <20YWVRZF>; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:26:59 +0100 Message-ID: <07CD861704A7D211846A0090273A8D211EB10F@tmst9400.tms-ltd.com> From: "Cleall Peter" To: "'Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: LF tests on DCF[B]39 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:26:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org LF test on DCF[B]39 Many thanks to those who did reply Unfortunately I only received 3 replies direct, 2 comments on the reflector before the saturday measurement time. In addition Dick Rollena PA0SE has put some usefull measurements on the reflector that has resulted in an interesting dialog between stations. As the response was so small the general analysis will not be possible . I will however contiue to collect data and see if anything useful can be made out of it. peter cleall G8AFN From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12164 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1999 14:14:54 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Apr 1999 14:14:54 +0100 Received: (qmail 25059 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1999 13:15:22 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 1999 13:15:22 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10blBi-0005vN-00; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:12:42 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA14978 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:12:49 GMT X-Priority: 3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA14974 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:12:47 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10blBS-0005vJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:12:26 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10blBc-0002rT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:12:36 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:09:25 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:09:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Weekend report 24/25 April Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Saturday 24 April Local noise made reception impossible until 1030UTC. Heard G4GVC (599); G3KEV (599); G6NB (569); G3GRO (599) and DF2PY (439). "Worked G3BDQ (589/589). Sunday 25 April Heard the following in gaps in the local noise: G4GVC (599); IK4ZPV (219); DF2PY (549). Saw on Spectrogram screen: IK1ODO ('O'). The local noise problems are getting worse. I now have two TVs, several computers and a light dimmer causing me trouble. It is very rare to be able to listen to the atmospheric noise floor. Several other LF ops have reported the same. I have tried the noise cancelling approach but the noise is not strong enough on the "noise antenna" compared to wanted signals. Fortunately, I have a park at the bottom of my garden so perhaps I will try the amplified whip approach as far as possible from the noise sources. Several more links added to my web site - mostly to US sites featuring real VLF (down to less than 1Hz!). Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6898 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1999 22:23:46 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 26 Apr 1999 22:23:46 +0100 Received: (qmail 21831 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1999 21:24:16 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 1999 21:24:16 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bsf3-00025s-00; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:11:29 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA18698 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 21:10:35 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA18694 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 21:10:33 GMT Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl ([194.109.6.51]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bsdY-00025D-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:09:56 +0100 Received: from PC_misan.xs4all.nl (dc2-isdn2118.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.156.70]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA24279 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:09:51 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: References: Conversation with last message Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "M. Sanders" Subject: Re: LF: Weekend reports 24/25 April Date: Mon, 26 Apr 99 23:42:19 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org To All Stations heard 24/4 (listening only in the evening): Slow CW: DF3LP (O) (559) 137.7 20:00utc Normal CW: PA0KDM (589) / 136.4 / 20:15utc and OZ1KMR (539) 136.2 / 20:20utc. Listening below 136.5 and 'odd' hours gave unexpected results! Stations heard 25/4 (morning only): Slow CW: G3YXM (O) Normal CW: PA0LQ (579); G3YXM (579); DF2PY (549); ON7YD (539); G3KEV (549); G4GVC (569); DJ6FU (539) I posted this report because i heard some stations this weekend (caling CQ only a few times) who where not mentioned in the other reports. By the way long CQ's may be anoying to some, it gave me a fine opportunity to improve my e-field probe changing the set up it at least three times (including measurements). This proved to me once again that observing 'weak' but more or less stable live radio signals is a superior way of experimenting and testing receiver / antenna performance compared to tests with signal generators. I have decided to keep the modification with the best signal - noise ratio. Tests i did before with the signal generator and observing strong commercial LF stations indicated however that a version with more gain followed by a low-pass filter and attenuator should have worked better, but it did not! Is there some room on the narrow 136kHz band for a limited (low-ERP) beacon experiment and are there amateurs interested in operating/monitoring such transmitters ? (RE: Strong signals and deaf receiver discussion) Best 73's and good luck on LF Michael Sanders, PA3BSH From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27814 invoked from network); 27 Apr 1999 03:55:00 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Apr 1999 03:55:00 +0100 Received: (qmail 30786 invoked from network); 27 Apr 1999 02:56:00 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 1999 02:56:00 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bxz3-0006tI-00; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 03:52:29 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA21338 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 02:52:18 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id CAA21334 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 02:52:12 GMT Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.156]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10bxyk-0006t8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 03:52:10 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-125-99.bellatlantic.net [151.200.125.99]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA08143; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3725275D.740B4869@bellatlantic.net> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:56:30 -0400 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb_lf_group" Cc: "Lawrence Kesteloot" , "Richard Friedman" , "Gary Williams" Subject: LF: Early sounds Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org If you want to hear some of the "lost sounds of the 20th century", such as: - Alexander Graham Bell's assistant Watson telling the story of the first words spoken over a telephone and why it was an emergency call? then, visit http://www.npr.org/programs/lnfsound/onair/archive.html 73 Andre' N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27421 invoked from network); 27 Apr 1999 08:41:39 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Apr 1999 08:41:39 +0100 Received: (qmail 22819 invoked from network); 27 Apr 1999 07:42:39 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 1999 07:42:39 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10c2M4-0000ix-01; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:32:32 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA23953 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:31:04 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA23949 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:31:02 GMT Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10c2KP-0000im-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:30:52 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA18056 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:35:26 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990427082842.2e8fe946@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:28:42 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Weekend reports 24/25 April In-reply-to: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org At 23:42 26/04/99 PDT, PA3BSH wrote: >By the way long CQ's may be anoying to some, it gave me a fine opportunity to >improve my e-field probe changing the set up it at least three times (including >measurements). >... >Is there some room on the narrow 136kHz band for a limited (low-ERP) beacon >experiment and are there amateurs interested in operating/monitoring such >transmitters? (RE: Strong signals and deaf receiver discussion) My opinion is that any 'beacon' activity should be at a band-edge, to minimize QRM to others. Since the upper band-edge is already occupied by slow-CW the lower band-edge may be best (eg. below 136200). Also if someone is running a 'beacon' or any test transmission it seems better to me to send 'TEST DE ON7YD' or 'VVV DE ON7YD' instead of CQ. And if there is any chance to inform the other band-users in advance (via this reflector or PR) of any beacon activities even more people may benifit from it. 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7215 invoked from network); 27 Apr 1999 09:29:02 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Apr 1999 09:29:02 +0100 Received: (qmail 9653 invoked from network); 27 Apr 1999 08:29:34 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 1999 08:29:34 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10c3C6-00018i-00; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:26:18 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA24353 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:26:21 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA24349 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:26:19 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10c3Bw-00018f-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:26:08 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10c3BV-0007kL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:25:42 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:24:44 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:25:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Weekend reports 24/25 April Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Priority: Normal To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Sanders" Subject: Re: LF: Weekend reports 24/25 April Date sent: Mon, 26 Apr 99 23:42:19 PDT Send reply to: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Is there some room on the narrow 136kHz band for a > limited (low-ERP) beacon experiment and are there amateurs interested in > operating/monitoring such transmitters? The trouble with beacons is that what is a nice weak DX signal to some is a huge interfering signal to others (this has always been a problem with VHF beacons QRMing DX operators). The ideal is to find a location remote from everyone, but which has someone locally to look after the station - difficult! When this has been discussed before, it has been concluded that for most purposes there are enough commercial beacons to do tests with. I am sure that, if you wanted to do some tests, you could find someone to put out a beacon transmission - preferably not at weekends, though. Mike From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16525 invoked from network); 27 Apr 1999 14:07:57 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Apr 1999 14:07:57 +0100 Received: (qmail 8364 invoked from network); 27 Apr 1999 13:08:30 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 1999 13:08:30 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10c7Wb-0003YC-01; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:03:45 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA26771 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:03:28 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA26767 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:03:26 GMT Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226] helo=gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10c7Vx-0003Y5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:03:05 +0100 Received: by gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA22438; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:03:25 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Message-ID: From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: LF Fieldday Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:02:52 +0200 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hallo LF Group, on Sunday 3. Mai 99 the Contest-Group Ulm will make LF tests form a portable QTH in JN48UO. The Antenna will be a Vertical abt. 100m high or a LW abt 250 m, both with ground system 3-5 x 150 m. We try to get on the air from 5:00 UTC to abt 11:00 UTC. We are also connected to the DX-Cluster DB0SDX. The freq will be about 137.30 kHz, assumed the still transmitting beacon of DF9SD is off until then. We only can do normal CW. Hope all the equipment will work in fieldday conditions. 73 de Wolf DL1SAN P.S. If anyone knows DF9SD please ask him to switch off his beacon. It is very bothering in the south germany area, due to continous transmitting. Thanks From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10489 invoked from network); 27 Apr 1999 21:51:13 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Apr 1999 21:51:13 +0100 Received: (qmail 2599 invoked from network); 27 Apr 1999 20:51:49 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 1999 20:51:49 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cElx-0000Ox-01; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:48:05 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA31196 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:47:15 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA31192 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:47:12 GMT Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cEkW-0000LA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:46:37 +0100 Received: from mail.uni-kiel.d400.de (actually srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de) by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:46:05 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de by mail.uni-kiel.d400.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA08493; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:46:02 +0200 Message-ID: <37262215.C0176325@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:46:13 +0200 From: "Peter W. Schnoor" Organization: University of Kiel, Clinic of Nephrology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: DF3LP homepages, update... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello LowFers, Added a gallery of pictures to my homepages: http://www.qsl.net/df3lp (Antenna, shack, etc.) Hope it works and will be of interest... 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20068 invoked from network); 27 Apr 1999 22:28:07 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Apr 1999 22:28:07 +0100 Received: (qmail 12938 invoked from network); 27 Apr 1999 21:29:10 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 1999 21:29:10 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cFNH-0000vG-01; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:26:39 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA31645 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:26:46 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA31641 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:26:44 GMT Received: from kodos.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.29]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cFMl-0000uw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:26:07 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from p135.lifford1.tinet.ie ([159.134.235.135] helo=tinet.ie) by kodos.tinet.ie with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 10cFMd-00009u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:25:59 +0100 Message-ID: <37262C00.399B31C6@tinet.ie> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:28:32 +0100 From: "Finbar O'Connor" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: G0MRF RX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org To Dave Bowman G0MRF Please phone Paul EI/G0EYC urgently re rx board. Teatime best but also 5pm to 10pm Phone nr 00 353 7773228 Qsp via Finbar / EI0CF Best regards Finbar From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3484 invoked from network); 27 Apr 1999 23:30:09 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 27 Apr 1999 23:30:09 +0100 Received: (qmail 26270 invoked from network); 27 Apr 1999 22:31:11 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 1999 22:31:11 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cGLG-0001tC-00; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 23:28:38 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA32232 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:29:09 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA32228 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:29:07 GMT From: welp@muenster.de X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bbaer.muenster.de ([195.202.32.20] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cGL5-0001t1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 23:28:27 +0100 Received: from [192.168.28.47] (mueamd-wan047.publikom.de [192.168.28.47]) by bbaer.muenster.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA11351 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 00:28:20 +0200 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 00:28:20 +0200 Message-ID: <199904272228.AAA11351@bbaer.muenster.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Weekend reports 24/25 April To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-reply-to: X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.10.06.22 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, "Mike Dennison" wrote: >tests with. I am sure that, if you wanted to do some tests, you >could find someone to put out a beacon transmission - preferably >not at weekends, though. Wouldn't that be a simple and still satisfying agreement: No beaconing on weekends, e. g. Friday 12 h through Sunday 24 h UTC; rest of the time preferably in the lower part of the band ?! 73, Oliver (DL9QJ, N3NSF) -- [Oliver Welp - welp@muenster.de welp@uni-muenster.de http://www.muenster.de/~welp/sb.htm Tel./Fax: +49-2533-7312] From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 575 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1999 07:13:53 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 07:13:53 +0100 Received: (qmail 20454 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1999 06:14:31 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 06:14:31 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cNXT-0007fK-00; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 07:09:43 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA02455 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 06:08:12 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA02449 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 06:08:08 GMT Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226] helo=gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cNVp-0007cS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 07:08:01 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA05725; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:08:20 +0200 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Message-ID: From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: LF Fieldday Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:07:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hallo LF Group, best thanks to Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB who pointed out that Sunday is the 2.Mai. Sorry about this mistake. Unfortunately it seems that we cannot run the Vertical but hopefully we can bring up the LW. We are not fixed to 137.3 kHz, but this is a QRM free gap in our area. The outher silent range is around 136.3 kHz but I think there is lot QRM in the North-West region. So if there ar frequencies which should not be used due to stong QRM please let me know these. On the other hand if someone can work only on a fixed freq. let us know and we will try to consider this too. If there are any questions or suggestions please feel free to contact me on this way or via packet DL1SAN@DB0ULM. 73 de DL1SAN > ---------- > Von: Koenig, Wolfgang > Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. April 1999 15:02 > An: 'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org' > Betreff: LF Fieldday > > > Hallo LF Group, > on Sunday 3. Mai 99 the Contest-Group Ulm will make LF tests form a > portable QTH in JN48UO. The Antenna will be a Vertical abt. 100m high or a > LW abt 250 m, both with ground system 3-5 x 150 m. We try to get on the > air from 5:00 UTC to abt 11:00 UTC. > We are also connected to the DX-Cluster DB0SDX. The freq will be about > 137.30 kHz, assumed the still transmitting beacon of DF9SD is off until > then. We only can do normal CW. > Hope all the equipment will work in fieldday conditions. > > 73 de Wolf DL1SAN > > P.S. If anyone knows DF9SD please ask him to switch off his beacon. It is > very bothering in the south germany area, due to continous transmitting. > Thanks > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22635 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1999 09:42:49 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 09:42:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 30960 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1999 08:43:28 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 08:43:28 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cPu3-0000GX-00; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:41:11 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA03308 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:41:08 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA03304 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:41:06 GMT Received: from mb05.swip.net ([193.12.122.209]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cPtO-0000Fh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:40:54 +0100 Received: from s-257519 (dialup94-1-60.swipnet.se [130.244.94.60]) by mb05.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA27309 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:39:25 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <005b01be9152$8b2a3ee0$3c5ef482@s-257519> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SV: LF Fieldday Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:20:28 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello all, Wolfgang, DL1SAN, wrote: >We are not fixed to 137.3 kHz, but this is a QRM free gap in our area. The >outher silent range is around 136.3 kHz but I think there is lot QRM in the >North-West region. I think it would be a good idea to compile a list of QRM free gaps at various stations. Such a list could be useful for split-frequency operation. 73, Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28485 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1999 10:08:04 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 10:08:04 +0100 Received: (qmail 25371 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1999 09:09:09 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 09:09:09 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cQIR-0000VU-00; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:06:23 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA03457 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:06:28 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA03453 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:06:26 GMT Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cQIH-0000VR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:06:13 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA13191 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:10:54 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990428100407.080f61f6@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:04:07 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: DF3LP homepages, update... In-reply-to: <37262215.C0176325@nephro.uni-kiel.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org At 22:46 27/04/99 +0200, you wrote: >Hello LowFers, > >Added a gallery of pictures to my homepages: > >http://www.qsl.net/df3lp > >(Antenna, shack, etc.) > >Hope it works and will be of interest... > >54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag >73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP > > Hi Peter & LF-gang, I just had a look on Peter's homepage (very nice !) and especially to the pictures of his 'birch-three' LF-antenna. First of all I have to confirm that the antenna works fine as Peter has a very good signal with me, compared to the power he runs. The antenna can be briefly described as a T-antenna, 17m high in the middle with 2 x 30m topload ending at 13/11m hight. The loading coil is at 12m hight. Having a closer look at the antenna I noticed that is special is some ways : 1. The vertical section just runs within a tree. 2. The feeding-point is at 12m (just below the loading coil), the antenna is fed by coax with the inner conductor of the coax connected to the loading coil and the shield of the coax connected to a metal pipe that goes the 12m down toward the earth and is grounded there. So the lower 12m of the vertical part is just a connection to the ground. This might explain why the antenna is working so well and is not suffering from too much loss in the three it is mounted in. In some way it also confirms the 'theory' that the goal of a good LF-antenna is to bring as much 'power' as possible as high as possible. According to this theory the ony function of the vertical part of the antenna is to 'transport' the power to the top (and any radiation by the vertical part could be considered as waste). An alternative way to look at it is to make a difference between the creation of the electric and the magnetic field : The electric field is created by voltage where the magnetic field is created by current. So the top-section of the antenna (all above the loading coil) has a high voltage and there is a current flowing through it, so this section will create an electric and a magnetic field. But the 12m vertical section going from the loading coil down to the ground is at zero voltage but it is possible that some current goes through it. The value of this current depends on 'grounding conditions' and wether a 'balun' is used between TX and antenna. But in any case this downgoing current will only create a magnetic field (that suffers much less from losses in the earth, threes etc... compared to the electric field). Anyway, a very interesting antenna. 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28173 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1999 14:13:05 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 14:13:05 +0100 Received: (qmail 21042 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1999 13:14:11 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 13:14:11 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cU6d-0002cy-01; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:10:27 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA05446 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:10:00 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA05442 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:09:58 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cU5p-0002c9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:09:37 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10cU5M-00032v-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:09:10 +0100 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:02:01 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:02:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: DF3LP homepages, update... Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.19990428100407.080f61f6@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <37262215.C0176325@nephro.uni-kiel.de> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Rik, ON7YD wrote re DF3LP's elevated feed antenna: > So the lower 12m of the vertical part is just a connection to the ground. > This might explain why the antenna is working so well and is not suffering > from too much loss in the three it is mounted in. > Until the lower part reaches the ground it will still radiate. It does not matter (except for engineering and matching reasons) where an antenna is fed - it still works the same. > In some way it also confirms the 'theory' that the goal of a good > LF-antenna is to bring as much 'power' as possible as high as possible. > According to this theory the ony function of the vertical part of the > antenna is to 'transport' the power to the top (and any radiation by the > vertical part could be considered as waste). > Hmmm. I think you need as much current as possible in as much of the vertical section as possible. The trouble with the conventional extremely short vertical is that the current drops off rapidly with the maximum at the bottom of the vertical section. In a conventional very short Marconi antenna this drop off will be approximately linear. If you add an elevated loading coil (often difficult for practical reasons) the current distribution is distorted to give more current higher up the mast. > An alternative way to look at it is to make a difference between the > creation of the electric and the magnetic field : > The electric field is created by voltage where the magnetic field is > created by current. > So the top-section of the antenna (all above the loading coil) has a high > voltage and there is a current flowing through it, so this section will > create an electric and a magnetic field. > But the 12m vertical section going from the loading coil down to the ground > is at zero voltage but it is possible that some current goes through it. Yes. Another advantage of the top inductive loading is that the horizontal wires (the capacitance) are immediately shifted in phase so that there is less cancelling out of the vertical radiation when the top wires are drooping. Without the coil, the top of the vertical is very nearly equal in phase and amplitude to the start of the drooping element, hence cancellation of some of the vertical component. I have tried several inverted-L configurations at several locations and have always found that a top inductance gives an improvement. This applies much more for very short antennas - at home my top section is less than 20m long. Ideally the whole antenna should be self-resonant, or slightly LF (ie no bottom loading coil, or even a capacitor) but I have not achieved this as lots of top L is needed. The snag is that it is difficult to engineer an efficient and light weight coil which will sit on top of a mast. I use a 3 litre cola bottle (made rigid by the method suggested by Rik - put in freezer with lid off, take out and screw lid on, then the pressure builds up inside as the air expands). I have streamlined the bottle by taping the funnel- shaped top from another bottle to the flat bottom of the first - so it has a top at each end! It is then wrapped with black tape as it looks silly when you have a cola bottle on a pole! It slips over the end of the fibreglass top section of the mast. Interestingly (but probably coincidentally), not only does DF3LP get out well but he hears well, too. Mike Dennison, G3XDV Publications Manager * RadCom * Ham Radio Today * RSGB Books * * GB2RS News * RSGB On-Line Web Site * Radio Society of Great Britain Lambda House, Cranborne Road Potters Bar, Herts UK, EN6 3JE E-mail: publications@rsgb.org.uk Tel: +44 (0) 1707 659015; Fax: +44 (0) 1707 645105 RSGB - UK AMATEUR RADIO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21808 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1999 17:46:40 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 17:46:40 +0100 Received: (qmail 15487 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1999 16:47:47 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 16:47:47 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cXRm-0004sM-00; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 17:44:30 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA07373 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 16:44:37 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA07369 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 16:44:35 GMT Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cXRP-0004s3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 17:44:07 +0100 Received: from mail.uni-kiel.d400.de (actually srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de) by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:43:42 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de by mail.uni-kiel.d400.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA11990; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:43:39 +0200 Message-ID: <37273AC5.6DD83FD7@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:43:49 +0200 From: "Peter W. Schnoor" Organization: University of Kiel, Clinic of Nephrology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: DF3LP homepages, update... References: <37262215.C0176325@nephro.uni-kiel.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Gang, Thanks for interest and discussion! Mike Dennison wrote: > Rik, ON7YD wrote re DF3LP's elevated feed antenna: > > > So the lower 12m of the vertical part is just a connection to the ground. > > This might explain why the antenna is working so well and is not suffering > > from too much loss in the three it is mounted in. > > > > Until the lower part reaches the ground it will still radiate. It does > not matter (except for engineering and matching reasons) where an > antenna is fed - it still works the same. I agree and hope that it radiates. But below the loading coil it is "cold" against ground, so there is only current flowing i.e. a magnetic near field and the dielectric properties of objects in the vicinity will have only minor influence. The same amount of current flows just above the coil but at high potential of AC voltage and you have to take the dielectrics into account. But there are only some branches. The distances of the coax feed running down the Al-tube to ground doesn't have any influence. > The snag is that it is difficult to engineer an efficient and light > weight coil which will sit on top of a mast. I use a 3 litre cola bottle > (made rigid by the method suggested by Rik - put in freezer with lid > off, take out and screw lid on, then the pressure builds up inside as > the air expands). I have streamlined the bottle by taping the funnel- > shaped top from another bottle to the flat bottom of the first - so it > has a top at each end! It is then wrapped with black tape as it > looks silly when you have a cola bottle on a pole! It slips over the > end of the fibreglass top section of the mast. Yes, coils for LF are always too small but I have the luck that this tree has grown like a staircase. So it's easy to climb and to heave those 10 kg upstairs. It is attached there by a sewed belt system made of polypropylene and bound by a second PP-rope for safety. Since I had some flash over to the fresh grown leaves I will replace the two vertical wires running parallel up to the top loading wires by heavy ignition cable and cut some smaller branches. Furthermore a main problem is to hold the distances between these wires and the supporting metallic mast section to be constant (30cm here) since at this point small variations of capacitance to ground will have a great influence to the feed point impedance. You can use this effect for tuning the system. > Interestingly (but probably coincidentally), not only does DF3LP get > out well but he hears well, too. TNX, but the LORAN-C rattling noise (S9 now) is a serious problem and a hotel at neighbourhood is equipped fully with low energy bulbs. If you don't like to cut those fine trees *use* them... 54°16'N / 10°04'E, JO54ag 73 es gl de Peter, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10724 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1999 19:03:41 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 19:03:41 +0100 Received: (qmail 25350 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1999 18:04:49 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 18:04:49 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cYem-0005Vv-01; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 19:02:00 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA07885 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:02:16 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA07881 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:02:14 GMT Received: from merlins.force9.net ([195.166.128.23]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cYeW-0005Vo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 19:01:44 +0100 Received: (qmail 15466 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1999 18:01:52 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by merlins.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 18:01:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 13397 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1999 18:02:09 -0000 Received: from 98.hiper01.shef.dialup.force9.net (HELO prstesv1) (195.166.142.98) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 18:02:09 -0000 Message-ID: <002301be91a1$78ff1de0$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: LF Fieldday Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 19:03:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Dear Wolf and all, No particular frequencies to avoid in most of G except 136.0 and just below. What callsign will you be using for the station? 73, Dave G3YXM >best thanks to Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB who pointed out that Sunday is the 2.Mai. Sorry >about this mistake. >Unfortunately it seems that we cannot run the Vertical but hopefully we can >bring up the LW. >We are not fixed to 137.3 kHz, but this is a QRM free gap in our area. The >outher silent range is around 136.3 kHz but I think there is lot QRM in the >North-West region. So if there ar frequencies which should not be used due >to stong QRM please let me know these. On the other hand if someone can work >only on a fixed freq. let us know and we will try to consider this too. If >there are any questions or suggestions please feel free to contact me on >this way or via packet DL1SAN@DB0ULM. > >73 de DL1SAN > > >> ---------- >> Von: Koenig, Wolfgang >> Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. April 1999 15:02 >> An: 'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org' >> Betreff: LF Fieldday >> >> >> Hallo LF Group, >> on Sunday 3. Mai 99 the Contest-Group Ulm will make LF tests form a >> portable QTH in JN48UO. The Antenna will be a Vertical abt. 100m high or a >> LW abt 250 m, both with ground system 3-5 x 150 m. We try to get on the >> air from 5:00 UTC to abt 11:00 UTC. >> We are also connected to the DX-Cluster DB0SDX. The freq will be about >> 137.30 kHz, assumed the still transmitting beacon of DF9SD is off until >> then. We only can do normal CW. >> Hope all the equipment will work in fieldday conditions. >> >> 73 de Wolf DL1SAN >> >> P.S. If anyone knows DF9SD please ask him to switch off his beacon. It is >> very bothering in the south germany area, due to continous transmitting. >> Thanks >> > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11207 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1999 21:16:02 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 21:16:02 +0100 Received: (qmail 19479 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1999 20:16:43 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 20:16:43 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cair-0006lL-01; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:14:22 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA09096 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:14:32 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA09084 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:14:25 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10caiM-0006l8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:13:50 +0100 Received: from [158.152.83.229] (helo=pagnell.demon.co.uk) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 10caiI-000Kbr-0K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:13:46 +0000 Message-ID: <84NhkFAQe2J3EwIU@pagnell.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:54:56 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "John W Gould" Subject: LF: dj8wl silent key MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org It is with great sadness that I have this news to forward to the Group. John ------- Forwarded message follows ------- Dear John, dear lowfers, we are very sorrow to record, that the member of our hf-committee, Peter.W.Bobek, DJ8WL, passed away on april 26 by a malignant illness. He was born on july 25 in 1943. He became member of the hf-committee in 1992 , was on the 160m toplist at 1.-st position all the time with 268 countries confirmed. When we started experimenting on lf, he became a real pioneer on that new experimental area. We are missing him very much, he was a keen and very experienced ham, a modest fellow and a really good friend. Hardy, DL1VDL, HF-Manager DARC -- John Gould, G3WKL G3WKL @GB7BEN.#43.GBR.EU g3wkl@pagnell.demon.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18716 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1999 21:46:36 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 21:46:36 +0100 Received: (qmail 23300 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1999 20:47:16 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 20:47:16 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cbCT-00070a-00; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:44:57 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA09326 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:45:21 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA09322 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:45:18 GMT Received: from mta.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.1] helo=mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cbCE-00070T-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:44:43 +0100 Received: from locxvcym ([203.96.106.250]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with ESMTP id <19990428204554.FLME5596385.mta1-rme@locxvcym> for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:45:54 +1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "ComPact" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Weekend report 24/25 April Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:44:08 +1200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <19990428204554.FLME5596385.mta1-rme@locxvcym> Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Mike Dennison wrote >The local noise problems are getting worse. I now have two TVs, >several computers and a light dimmer causing me trouble. It is very >rare to be able to listen to the atmospheric noise floor. Several >other LF ops have reported the same. >I have tried the noise cancelling approach but the noise is not >strong enough on the "noise antenna" compared to wanted signals. As most of this local qrm seems to be borne on the mains wiring has anyone tried taking a signal directly from the mains rather than from a separate "noise antenna"? Mike ZL4OL From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29505 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1999 22:30:09 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 22:30:09 +0100 Received: (qmail 18720 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1999 21:31:16 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 21:31:16 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cbpT-0007UY-01; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:25:15 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA09582 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:25:26 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA09578 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:25:24 GMT Received: from merlins.force9.net ([195.166.128.23]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cbp0-0007UM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:24:47 +0100 Received: (qmail 25312 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1999 21:24:57 -0000 Received: from mayfly.plus.net.uk (HELO mayfly.force9.net) (195.166.128.28) by merlins.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 21:24:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 19897 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1999 21:25:18 -0000 Received: from 23.hiper01.shef.dialup.force9.net (HELO prstesv1) (195.166.142.23) by mayfly.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 21:25:18 -0000 Message-ID: <004101be91bd$d815b3e0$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: dj8wl silent key Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:26:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Dear all, Very sad news. I met Peter at Windsor last year and he was a great guy. His contribution to, and enthusiasm for LF was enourmous and will be very much missed. What can one say? 73 Peter.......... >Dear John, dear lowfers, >we are very sorrow to record, that the member of our hf-committee, >Peter.W.Bobek, DJ8WL, passed away on april 26 by a malignant illness. He >was born on july 25 in 1943. He became member of the hf-committee in >1992 , was on the 160m toplist at 1.-st position all the time with 268 >countries confirmed. When we started experimenting on lf, he became a >real pioneer on that new experimental area. We are missing him very >much, he was a keen and very experienced ham, a modest fellow and a >really good friend. >Hardy, DL1VDL, HF-Manager DARC > > >-- >John Gould, G3WKL >G3WKL @GB7BEN.#43.GBR.EU >g3wkl@pagnell.demon.co.uk > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5400 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1999 22:55:26 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 22:55:26 +0100 Received: (qmail 21764 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1999 21:56:33 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 21:56:33 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ccG2-0007rz-00; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:52:42 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA09781 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:50:05 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA09777 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:50:03 GMT Received: from nms.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.2]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ccCr-0007q4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:49:26 +0100 Received: from mail.uni-kiel.d400.de (actually srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de) by nms.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:49:15 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de by mail.uni-kiel.d400.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id XAA22772; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:49:12 +0200 Message-ID: <37278263.21E041D6@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:49:23 +0200 From: "Peter W. Schnoor" Organization: University of Kiel, Clinic of Nephrology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: dj8wl silent key References: <84NhkFAQe2J3EwIU@pagnell.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Dear Group, John W Gould wrote: > [...] > we are very sorrow to record, that the member of our hf-committee, > Peter.W.Bobek, DJ8WL, passed away on april 26 by a malignant illness. [...] I hope to find the right words since English is not my native language. It is to be owed to his activities that we got permission here in DL and could remove the "Jolly Rogers" from our LF-antennas. We have to raise a mourning band too early... 73 Peter! Peter Wilhelm Schnoor, DF3LP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8773 invoked from network); 29 Apr 1999 06:32:14 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Apr 1999 06:32:14 +0100 Received: (qmail 3458 invoked from network); 29 Apr 1999 05:32:58 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Apr 1999 05:32:58 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cjNk-0005IX-01; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 06:29:08 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA12812 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 05:29:05 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA12808 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 05:29:02 GMT Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226] helo=gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cjNX-0005IN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 06:28:55 +0100 Received: by gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA09402; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 07:27:16 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Message-ID: From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: AW: Re: LF Fieldday Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 07:28:50 +0200 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hallo Dave, thanks for your answer. We are going to use the callsign of the contest group Ulm : DL0UL/p 73 de DL1SAN Wolf > ---------- > Von: Dave[SMTP:dave@picks.force9.co.uk] > Antwort an: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. April 1999 20:03 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: LF: Re: LF Fieldday > > Dear Wolf and all, > > No particular frequencies to avoid in most of G except 136.0 and just > below. > What callsign will you be using for the station? > > 73, Dave G3YXM > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8951 invoked from network); 29 Apr 1999 06:33:41 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Apr 1999 06:33:41 +0100 Received: (qmail 25777 invoked from network); 29 Apr 1999 05:34:51 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Apr 1999 05:34:51 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cjPj-0005KO-00; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 06:31:11 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA12862 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 05:31:10 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA12854 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 05:31:02 GMT Received: from ah-img-2.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.153] helo=hpamgaab.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cjPS-0005KF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 06:30:54 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaab.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.4) id BAA16834 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 01:30:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 01:30:29 -0400 From: "Dave Sergeant" Subject: LF: Beacons To: "rsgb_lf_group" Message-ID: <199904290130_MC2-73D7-1DF7@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >From Dave G3YMC We discussed the subject of beacons, band plans for them etc a long time ago on this reflector. I would like to remind us that unattended beacons are not permitted under the license conditions on the 136kHz band, at least not in the UK. There is nothing to stop you putting attended beacons on, though they would be classed as test transmissions. A year ago when we first started on 136 quite a few stations beaconed in the UK for a while. With current level of activity they are apparently no longer considered necessary and the practice has more or less stopped. 73s Dave From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15536 invoked from network); 29 Apr 1999 07:43:26 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Apr 1999 07:43:26 +0100 Received: (qmail 7400 invoked from network); 29 Apr 1999 06:44:10 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Apr 1999 06:44:10 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ckRU-00068R-00; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 07:37:04 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA13217 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 06:37:02 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA13213 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 06:36:59 GMT Received: from arl-img-12.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.142]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10ckRH-00068I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 07:36:51 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by arl-img-12.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id CAA08428 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 02:36:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 02:36:10 -0400 From: "Holger 'Geri', DK8KW" Subject: LF: dj8wl silent key To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199904290236_MC2-73D6-D3D@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Dear friends, with great sadness I heard that Peter, DJ8WL/DA0LF passed away. Peter was not only one of the active pioneers on LF but without his background work talking to various German and European authorities and people in charge, today we would not have the CEPT recommendation that is the basis for the allocation of longwave to the amateur radio service in Europe. Personally to me Peter was a great help. After I met him personally on the Ham Radio in Friedrichshafen a couple of years back I had lengthy discussions on equipment problems and antenna solutions with him by phone and e-mail in which he always patiently answered all my questions and helped me finally to get an LF signal on the air. The first station I ever heard on LF was DA0LF, I had my first qso with DJ8WL. I will miss his advise, friendlyness and, last, but not least, his slow-CW signal that appeared on my screen steadily and regularely nearly every evening. Vy 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 308 invoked from network); 29 Apr 1999 09:19:39 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Apr 1999 09:19:39 +0100 Received: (qmail 14762 invoked from network); 29 Apr 1999 08:20:23 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Apr 1999 08:20:23 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cm0A-0007U9-00; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:16:58 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA13811 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:15:50 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA13807 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:15:48 GMT Received: from mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.8.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10clyq-0007Tp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:15:36 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mailserv.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA17860 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:20:24 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990429091335.2dd7769e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:13:35 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: propagation 27 april MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Last night (27 april) arround 21UT I could hear OZ1KMR calling CQ with an incredible strong 589 signal. For comparision : this is about the same strength as PA0SE and PA0LQ who both are less than 150km away while OZ1KMR is over 500km. Compared to other signals in the 500km range he was about 10dB stronger than G3KEV usually is, over 20dB stronger than HB9ASB and over 25dB stronger than GW4ALG. I have recorded a 20 sec. WAV-file (220kB) of his transmission and can send a copy to those who are interested. It was a bit dissapointing hat despite this signalstrength he did not hear my replies :( Little later I heard I5MXX calling CQ with 559 but he was only listening on 80m (and unfortunately I don't can put up my 80m dipole and the LF-anteena at the same time). 73, Rik Rik Strobbe ON7YD rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be Villadreef 14 B-3128 Baal BELGIUM (JO20IX) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7848 invoked from network); 29 Apr 1999 09:53:07 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Apr 1999 09:53:07 +0100 Received: (qmail 18452 invoked from network); 29 Apr 1999 08:53:51 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Apr 1999 08:53:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cmWE-0007oU-00; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:50:06 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA13992 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:50:11 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA13988 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:50:09 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cmW4-0007o2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:49:56 +0100 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id JAA18339 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:49:49 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <1999042908563068199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:56:30 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re: dj8wl Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit > we are very sorrow to record, that the member of our hf-committee, > Peter.W.Bobek, DJ8WL, passed away on april 26 by a malignant illness. This is a great loss. It was obvious to everyone that he was a driving force with experimental work on the LF bands. We had our first QSO on 26/8/98, my transmission was on 137kHz slow CW, Peter replied on 80m fast CW. It was my first transmission using slow CW. Since we had many two-way contacts on 137 kHz Slow CW, the last one on 26/2/99. I also had the good fortune to be one of the '4' LFers at the HF Convention dinner, where I found Peter's company to be inspiring - he will be sadly missed. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15817 invoked from network); 29 Apr 1999 10:25:46 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Apr 1999 10:25:46 +0100 Received: (qmail 12465 invoked from network); 29 Apr 1999 09:26:56 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Apr 1999 09:26:56 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cn1c-0008Br-01; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:22:33 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA14204 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:22:37 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA14200 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:22:35 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cn1S-0008Bj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:22:22 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #34) id 10cnxY-0005M1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:22:24 +0000 Received: from miked.rsgbhq [192.168.2.30] by rsgb.org.uk [192.168.2.132] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:12:51 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" Organization: Radio Society of Great Britain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:13:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Re: Weekend report 24/25 April Priority: normal In-reply-to: <19990428204554.FLME5596385.mta1-rme@locxvcym> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > As most of this local qrm seems to be borne on the mains wiring has anyone > tried taking a signal directly from the mains rather than from a separate > "noise antenna"? > > Mike ZL4OL > I will certainly try this, though I think the TV and games machine QRM is radiated by the TV antenna coax outer. Making a crude braid breaker (100pF in series with each leg of the coax) fixed the S5 QRM from my own TV. Thanks for the suggestion. I will report back. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18843 invoked from network); 29 Apr 1999 23:26:00 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Apr 1999 23:26:00 +0100 Received: (qmail 18526 invoked from network); 29 Apr 1999 22:26:47 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Apr 1999 22:26:47 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cz99-000152-01; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:19:07 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA22286 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:17:32 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA22281 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:17:29 GMT Received: from mashie.force9.net ([195.166.128.30]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10cz6v-00012n-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:16:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 6415 invoked from network); 29 Apr 1999 22:17:54 -0000 Received: from relay3.force9.net (HELO relay2.force9.net) (195.166.128.25) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Apr 1999 22:17:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 20080 invoked from network); 29 Apr 1999 22:11:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO prstesv1) (212.56.94.182) by relay3.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Apr 1999 22:11:43 -0000 Message-ID: <006101be928e$482ef1c0$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Weekend report 24/25 April Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:18:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Chaps.. I have tried sucking some RF off the mains by connecting the primary of a small transformer from the mains supply down to earth via a 22nF capacitor. The secondary was then used to feed into the receiver in the hope of cancelling Mains-bourne intereference. Unfortunately the interference I picked up from the mains seemed to be primarily that from my own house which I can cure myself! The stuff from other sources didn't seem to be present on my own mains supply... This obviously depends on the individual situation but it didn't work for me. Good luck anyway! Dave G3YXM. >> As most of this local qrm seems to be borne on the mains wiring has anyone >> tried taking a signal directly from the mains rather than from a separate >> "noise antenna"? >> >> Mike ZL4OL >> > >I will certainly try this, though I think the TV and games machine >QRM is radiated by the TV antenna coax outer. Making a crude >braid breaker (100pF in series with each leg of the coax) fixed the >S5 QRM from my own TV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24042 invoked from network); 29 Apr 1999 23:50:44 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 29 Apr 1999 23:50:44 +0100 Received: (qmail 11213 invoked from network); 29 Apr 1999 22:51:57 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Apr 1999 22:51:57 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10czYn-0001Xx-00; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:45:37 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA22561 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:44:53 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA22557 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:44:51 GMT Received: from ins2.netins.net ([167.142.225.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10czXP-0001Ws-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:44:11 +0100 Received: from netins.net (desm-25-081.dialup.netins.net [167.142.22.82]) by ins2.netins.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA21046 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:44:04 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3728E0B2.DC2A73E@netins.net> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:44:03 -0500 From: "Doc Gruis" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Weekend report 24/25 April References: <006101be928e$482ef1c0$0600a8c0@prstesv1.prestel.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Interesting. Here in the States I have had much better luck in using a capacitor to couple to the telephone lines. The intensity of the noise does not seem to be quite as intense. This has worked for me for LW through SW. I usually use a fairly large capacitor, 0.05 or so as the primary isolator, and a high resistance resistor, ca. 100 K or so, as a static drain from the low side to earth. Doc - K0HTF EN31dx (Iowa, USA) ___________________________________________________________ Dave wrote: > Chaps.. > > I have tried sucking some RF off the mains by connecting the primary of a > small transformer from the mains supply down to earth via a 22nF capacitor. > The secondary was then used to feed into the receiver in the hope of > cancelling Mains-bourne intereference. Unfortunately the interference I > picked up from the mains seemed to be primarily that from my own house which > I can cure myself! The stuff from other sources didn't seem to be present on > my own mains supply... This obviously depends on the individual situation > but it didn't work for me. > > Good luck anyway! Dave G3YXM. > > >> As most of this local qrm seems to be borne on the mains wiring has > anyone > >> tried taking a signal directly from the mains rather than from a separate > >> "noise antenna"? > >> > >> Mike ZL4OL > >> > > > >I will certainly try this, though I think the TV and games machine > >QRM is radiated by the TV antenna coax outer. Making a crude > >braid breaker (100pF in series with each leg of the coax) fixed the > >S5 QRM from my own TV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6816 invoked from network); 30 Apr 1999 13:11:35 +0100 Received: from magnet.plus.net.uk (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Apr 1999 13:11:35 +0100 Received: (qmail 15594 invoked from network); 30 Apr 1999 12:12:26 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Apr 1999 12:12:26 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10dC2N-00037r-00; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:04:59 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA27509 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:02:01 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA27505 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:01:59 GMT Received: from artemis.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.126]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10dBzB-000340-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:01:42 +0100 Received: from pc171.geog.le.ac.uk ([143.210.151.171] helo=kate) by artemis.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10dBz7-0002Z1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:01:37 +0100 Message-ID: <004701be9300$86b3dc90$ab97d28f@kate.geog.le.ac.uk> From: "Kate Moore" To: "lfgroup" Subject: LF: Peter Bobek Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:56:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >Peter.W.Bobek, DJ8WL, passed away on april 26...... It's difficult to know what to say. I'm stunned; I knew Peter was ill, but I didn't realise just how serious it was. The first time I came across Peter was on Packet in 1997 when he notified us of his DA0LF permit. When he joined this reflector later that year, many of us took part in his pioneering slow-cw tests, which opened up that mode and gave most of us our first amateur signal on 136kHz - my DA0LF QSL will be even more treasured now. >From that point on Peter and I regularly exchanged packet messages and e-mail until we finally met up at the LF Forum at Windsor last year, where he took the trouble to bring over some thermocouple ammeters for me. Everyone who attended seemed impressed by what a nice guy he was, his faultless English and deep knowledge and enthusiasm for LF. It was particularly poignant to work him on 136kHz when he was operating GB4RS, at a time when his German permit had been suspended. When we started the topband nets, Peter was a regular contributor with an excellent signal into the UK, and often called in early or stayed on afterwards for a chat. After the last net I was able to chair, he looked for Finbar and I on 136kHz slow-cw, and copied us both that night. I was hoping we would finally make the LF 2-way when the Westerwald trip was planned, but in the end he wasn't able to go. Even so, in spite of being ill, he took the trouble to set up skeds for us with Walter and Gun, and came on air to check with them we had made it. I could just copy his signal during that QSO - the last time I heard Peter on air - on LF. All of us who now operate on 136kHz owe a debt to DJ8WL - a true Radio Amateur in every sense. We will miss you Peter. 73. John G4GVC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18639 invoked from network); 30 Apr 1999 17:39:35 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Apr 1999 17:39:35 +0100 Received: (qmail 2839 invoked from network); 30 Apr 1999 16:40:52 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Apr 1999 16:40:52 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10dGAq-00061B-00; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 17:30:00 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA29505 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:29:58 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA29501 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:29:56 GMT From: WarmSpgs@aol.com X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com ([198.81.17.71]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10dGAH-00060O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 17:29:25 +0100 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com (14427) by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id lUESa02301 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:28:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:27:55 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Peter Bobek To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 70 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >Peter.W.Bobek, DJ8WL, passed away on april 26...... The news is still hard to accept. On this side of the Atlantic, most of our contact with Peter was by e-mail, so I don't know if any of us realized he was ill. None the less, his pioneering efforts on the European LF ham scene are well known here. As an LWCA member, he helped us follow the work that led up to the CEPT recommendation. It's not an exaggeration to say that Peter's positive attitude, energy, and willingness to share information were appreciated around the world. John KD4IDY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18835 invoked from network); 30 Apr 1999 17:40:41 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Apr 1999 17:40:41 +0100 Received: (qmail 3154 invoked from network); 30 Apr 1999 16:41:58 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Apr 1999 16:41:58 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10dGIc-000653-00; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 17:38:02 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA29595 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:38:22 GMT Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA29591 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:38:20 GMT Received: from ah-img-2.compuserve.com ([149.174.217.153] helo=hpamgaab.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10dGIT-00064k-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 17:37:53 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaab.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.4) id MAA14825 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:37:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:35:41 -0400 From: "DEREK ATTER" Subject: Re: LF: dj8wl silent key To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <199904301236_MC2-740A-742D@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Dear All, It was with great sadness that I heard today of the passing of Peter Bobek DJ8WL. Having worked Peter many times on the LF nets and also having met him in person at the Windsor HF convention, I feel that Peter exemplified all that is good in our hobby - his enthusiasm , his good humor and his contribution to international friendship. He will be sadly missed. 73 de Derek Atter, G3GRO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15581 invoked from network); 30 Apr 1999 19:34:09 +0100 Received: from magnus.plus.net.uk (HELO magnus.force9.net) (195.166.128.27) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 30 Apr 1999 19:34:09 +0100 Received: (qmail 29 invoked from network); 30 Apr 1999 18:35:26 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (194.75.130.70) by magnus.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Apr 1999 18:35:26 -0000 Received: from troy.blacksheep.org ([194.75.183.50] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10dI4M-00072H-01; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 19:31:26 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from root@localhost) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA30656 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 18:31:43 GMT X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (root@post.unica.co.uk [194.75.183.70]) by troy.blacksheep.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA30651 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 18:31:41 GMT Received: from brockman.tinet.ie ([159.134.237.30]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #3) id 10dI46-00072C-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 19:31:10 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from p145.lifford1.tinet.ie ([159.134.235.145] helo=tinet.ie) by brockman.tinet.ie with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 10dI41-00028Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 19:31:06 +0100 Message-ID: <3729F780.A03921FB@tinet.ie> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 19:33:37 +0100 From: "Finbar O'Connor" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Peter Bobek Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org I am very sad and shocked to hear of the death of Peter Bobek, DJ8WL, on the 26th of April. I first met Peter, when he and his wife visited Malin Head Radio station, two years ago to hand over a qsl card for a previous 160m contact. A chance remark by me, saying I was interested in LF, led to a firm friendship and much help from Peter, particularly when I was preparing my submission to operate on LF from Ireland. Since then he has continued to help and encourage me and he recently actively helped, when I suffered a lot of qrm at my qth, by passing on information. He was so kind, a true gentleman and a shining example to Amateur radio experimenters. We will fondly remember our dear friend Peter and send our condolences to his family Finbar O'Connor EI0CF