Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id x3FKUDau021596 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 22:30:14 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1hG7uh-0002OU-FF for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 21:09:11 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1hG7ou-0002Mm-Fb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 21:03:12 +0100 Received: from sonic314-14.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.132.124]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hG7or-0006pS-TD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 21:03:11 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1555358577; bh=9h4LVqX26083rouLf+a4QKAoJitQ8C98wJbWnl+Cw3o=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:From:Subject; b=Ko2EFT43w8BalFPUyn0JMLlzWdA+1B7UZ1ei+nKkOZqN8k8E4VFy1gKeS9ZoasrV8QySaZer3t6PQr3RslwOyDoKKqiyCYY3Y88Ev0UbjuQ07CO/TJc8A1rTVuJ+n52J6VOo5379AfRZmJodv0Oy9Jy8389pxMX2nsY8NKA602dGs6BUUR+uuCrRmKRLfsYOp3t+3UNqVSZp0iWcgZuRu0iut8PohqChhxTdRXlMSqm/+x05HCFy7/Es8D7KpOG9mFRdFdro+btph7mQ5hMJwUpCL/UZV1oo9ktpkr4/y88n+TEm1za9kcUyFWFWhSSvpuooo2/R/5TUf6B9JMuJXw== X-YMail-OSG: B5eL4VkVM1nJpdWhohCTbO2aegpeXJNvA9BnifrkfnIuhfY892Vh2roOahFZv6f A4RaqTLGwVY72UXbunhTta98hxAEFMYHNncFOsEuXA3DtxaF7C31aBl3xCdoQ8V.KgfZEOqYDB0c VlL_59IpBZOaJSj7_c.71SelwYtVdcNcVzHGreBfxP2Xycm6nBFk4gO8vwwtEop0_0gLCuYKYDtz lKO1._oEDvGyN125BZeMUl5MhELQZmAGWi8XMk9S9k_Fw2oD49eI2FkvJ1yv2VHC13yI69BkrWLa cmd82T3.UPOiUz3akNt197zhjMNMUALdFJ_2Hh1PPIWFp106mmGKmzIDlI6LSyp_frlm3EHnpRSm q2c.coPMdzaNGfbYcGmOCcLLdfgzOQxbvznvheBaBT16mpCuXiveVrFNagYIBv.fqsjPzErWExfO oaKaO7O6b46oRJtpZO4umFYgEYzkq3CUYU1cNvRAWYdbWwjGrJ73zwUtUtARoGAxf27f.qrW0X9M Uzdyw0mw8.XPmZxUpcU5slrjeVVIWOOnvkX323gRuxY5C7YW_c5Ty6Nwh5p_LFviKHPV1fmMSZoQ 7EkPGijREg1u9cE7EyOM1r_w980boo0oXB5Z1bpcWT82504oHFE_FESFutdtUyauNY2PLyjULo4a WWDTjB4kEOmawxxjNf1SnRvj6hlJpNwul.JOvJZuzRjWGwIvHqWiGsl2lIL7jDATi3GGu90GI6ZA PX5yVBFMxEz7durQH.Dn_orO8zjWa1HVsQLUVUqdsqfHWtrvn6gJJrukBLLPYxknVYu0nuoenth3 GTDYk6VpoFbOJqz24I_XjBctjKj1QIaZahZVUYRGvVLf1YJoobIMXJwHRbIAgN5fFkAA1455xruu _Yp84kyExVSzYwIR7E2rl.ANSODBFOazgV196HbBM20rcK9idyreJAqzKjQ.FVr7ppdgT6hSOZDv _RU2cDwc6_ZRJwE3jDoOWjbaN1kualC2U_d.0MmdYoFC6WoZkjYFWdFArW2vJTHLqM9qSsdFhidr 455qKerL4RIfjmx3_DlxD Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic314.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 20:02:57 +0000 Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 20:02:52 +0000 (UTC) From: Markus Vester To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <2094456453.3003296.1555358572044@mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: ULF: Ground loop night transmission 3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3003295_762805622.1555358572040" References: <2094456453.3003296.1555358572044.ref@mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.13212 aolwebmail Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/73.0.3683.103 Safari/537.36 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Stefan, > Do you have an idea why the E-W cardioid result is worse than from the E field alone? Looking at https://vlf.u01.de/VLFgrabber/vlf9.jpg we find that the noise grew much more on the earth loop (top) than on the E-field (bottom). One reason may be that our earth antennas pick up more 5 [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [74.6.132.124 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (markusvester[at]aol.com) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 962f2daa83886715a5d650b1c8628c8a X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SA Timed out after 180 secs Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false ------=_Part_3003295_762805622.1555358572040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan, > Do you have an idea why the E-W cardioid result is worse than from the E = field alone? Looking at=C2=A0https://vlf.u01.de/VLFgrabber/vlf9.jpg=C2=A0we find that th= e noise grew much more on the earth loop (top) than on the E-field (bottom)= . One reason may be that our earth antennas pick up more 50 Hz harmonics - = these won't interfere with your QRG directly but may raise the noise blanke= r threshold and=C2=A0make spherics blanking less effective. We could also s= peculate about spherics with steep incidence angle, albeit=C2=A0you were mo= re or less in the middle between 1st and 2nd vertical tweek resonances=C2= =A0(1.65 and 3.3 kHz). Anyway the SNR ratio between H to E seems to be simi= lar to your receivers. Of course skywave components may also have a direct effect on your signal b= ut I don't know whether that would have been positive or negative, or in wh= ich way to extrapolate downwards. I'm very curious what=C2=A0would come out= of a 1.65 kHz transmission during a quiet night. > Which carrier S/N do you get from the E field? Decoder output "carrier S/N 24.31 dB in 128.6 uHz" - should be related to c= arrier Eb/N0 by adding=C2=A010 log (ncharacters * 5.7). Best 73,Markus =C2=A0=C2=A0 -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung----- Von: DK7FC An: rsgb_lf_group Verschickt: Mo, 15. Apr. 2019 10:32 Betreff: Re: ULF: Ground loop night transmission 3.0 Hello Markus, ULF, Very well. Thanks for your decodes and for sharing the night :-) Do you have an idea why the E-W cardioid result is worse than from theE fie= ld alone? Which carrier S/N do you get from the E field? I'm getting carrier S/N:40.6= 2 dB in 128.6 uHz, 1.71 dB in 1Hz The difference of our carrier Eb/N0 is 16.3 dB. But as Paul mentioned,campa= ring carrier S/N may be more accurate in that spectrum range. It could be interesting to compare the SNR difference between ourlocations = over some frequencies. If that value is reasonable constant,in the far fiel= d, then we could estimate what we can expect at 970 Hz... My results from all 3 antennas are still looking good at that frequency: E field: carrier S/N: 40.62 dB in 128.6 uHz N-S loop: carrier S/N: 28.38 dB in 128.6 uHz E-W loop: carrier S/N: 30.47 dB in 128.6 uHz 73, Stefan Am 15.04.2019 01:33, schrieb Markus Vester: Hi Stefan,=20 DL0AO H-field (E-W): Eb/N0 =3D 2.5 dB(car), 0.7 dB(sym), DL0AO E-Field: E= b/N0 =3D 12.0 dB(car), 10.9 dB (sym).=C2=A0=20 Our file ended a couple of minutes early with the last12 symbols missing,= causing a slightly high symbol error reading.=20 73 and good night, Markus (DF6NM)=20 =20 -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung----- Von: DK7FC An: rsgb_lf_group; Renato Romero Verschickt: So, 14. Apr. 2019 23:13 Betreff: Re: ULF: Ground loop nighttransmission 3.0 =20 Hello ULF friends,=20 =20 Now i'm sitting in the car again in the deep forest. It is silent(outside!)= and the sky is clear. The TX and EbNaut message is nowrunning: =20 f =3D 2470.1 Hz Start time: 14.APR.2019=C2=A0 21:00:00.3 UTC Symbol period: 9 s Characters: 3 CRC bits: 16 Coding 16K21A Antenna current: 2.5 A Duration: 02:09:36 [hh:mm:ss] =20 TX power at the beginning of the transmission is 492 W thistime.=20 =20 73, Stefan =20 =20 =20 Am 14.04.2019 14:41, schrieb DK7FC:=20 =20 Hello Dreamers,=20 =20 Today it feels right again, i'd like to have another excitingadventure... After the recent successes at 2970 Hz, maybe it is possible to getsomething= through at 2470 Hz? That's the 121 km band. So far, thgedistance record at= this frequency is over to DL4YHF, QRB ~ 313 km. =20 I'd like to try the following: =20 f =3D 2470.1 Hz Start time: 14.APR.2019=C2=A0 ab:cd:00.3 UTC Symbol period: 9 s Characters: 3 CRC bits: 16 Coding 16K21A Antenna current: 2.e A Duration: 02:09:36 [hh:mm:ss] =20 More details regarding start time and antenna current will follow afterthe = transmission has started. =20 Reports requested / welcome :-) =20 73, Stefan =20 ------=_Part_3003295_762805622.1555358572040 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
= Hi Stefan,

> Do you have an idea why the E-W card= ioid result is worse than from the E field alone?
=

Looking at https://vlf= .u01.de/VLFgrabber/vlf9.jpg we find that the noise grew much more = on the earth loop (top) than on the E-field (bottom). One reason may be tha= t our earth antennas pick up more 50 Hz harmonics - these won't interfere w= ith your QRG directly but may raise the noise blanker threshold and ma= ke spherics blanking less effective. We could also speculate about spherics= with steep incidence angle, albeit you were more or less in the middl= e between 1st and 2nd vertical tweek resonances (1.65 and 3.3 kHz). An= yway the SNR ratio between H to E seems to be similar to your receivers.

Of course skywave components may also have a direct effect on your sign= al but I don't know whether that would have been positive or negative, or i= n which way to extrapolate downwards. I'm very curious what would come= out of a 1.65 kHz transmission during a quiet night.

> Which carrier S/N do you get fr= om the E field?

=
Decoder output "carrier S/N 24.31 dB in 128.6 uHz" - should be related to carrier Eb/= N0 by adding 10 log = (ncharacters * 5.7).

Best= 73,
Markus

<= div>  

-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilun= g-----
Von: DK7FC <selberdenken@posteo.de><= br clear=3D"none">An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>Verschickt: Mo, 15. Apr. 2019 10:32
Betreff: = Re: ULF: Ground loop night transmission 3.0

Hello Markus, ULF,

Very well. Thanks for your decodes and for sharing the night :-)
Do you have an idea why the E-W cardioid result is worse than from the E field alone?
Which carrier S/N do you get from the E field? I'm getting carrier S/N: 40.62 dB in 128.6 uHz, 1.71 dB in 1Hz
The difference of our carrier Eb/N0 is 16.3 dB. But as Paul mentioned, camparing carrier S/N may be more accurate in that spectrum range.
It could be interesting to compare the SNR difference between our locations over some frequencies. If that value is reasonable constant, in the far field, then we could estimate what we can expect at 970 Hz... My results from all 3 antennas are still looking good at that frequency: E field: carrier S/N: 40.62 dB in 128.6 uHz
N-S loop: carrier S/N: 28.38 dB in 128.6 uHz
E-W loop: carrier S/N: 30.47 dB in 128.6 uHz

73, Stefan



Am 15.04.2019 01:33, schrieb Markus Vester:
Hi Stefan,

DL0AO H-field (E-W): Eb/N0 =3D 2.5 dB(car), 0.7 dB(sym),
DL0AO E-Field: Eb/N0 =3D 12.0 dB(car), 10.9 dB (sym). 

Our file ended a couple of minutes early with the last 12 symbols missing, causing a slightly high symbol error reading.

73 and good night,
Markus (DF6NM)


----= -Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
Von:= DK7FC <selberdenken@posteo.de>
An: = rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org&g= t;; Renato Romero <contact@vlf.it>
Vers= chickt: So, 14. Apr. 2019 23:13
Betr= eff: Re: ULF: Ground loop night transmission 3.0

Hello ULF friends,

Now i'm sitting in the car again in the deep forest. It is silent (outside!) and the sky is clear. The TX and EbNaut message is now running:

f =3D 2470.1 Hz
Start time: 14.APR.2019  21:00:00.3 UTC
Symbol period: 9 s
Characters: 3
CRC bits: 16
Coding 16K21A
Antenna current: 2.5 A
Duration: 02:09:36 [hh:mm:ss]

 TX power at the beginning of the transmission is 492 W this time.

73, Stefan



Am 14.04.2019 14:41, schrieb DK7FC:
Hello Dreamers,

Today it feels right again, i'd like to have another exciting adventure...
After the recent successes at 2970 Hz, maybe it is possible to get something through at 2470 Hz? That's the 121 km band. So far, thge distance record at this frequency is over to DL4YHF, QRB ~ 313 km.

I'd like to try the following:

f =3D 2470.1 Hz
Start time: 14.APR.2019  ab:cd:00.3 UTC
Symbol period: 9 s
Characters: 3
CRC bits: 16
Coding 16K21A
Antenna current: 2.e A
Duration: 02:09:36 [hh:mm:ss]

More details regarding start time and antenna current will follow after the transmission has started.

Reports requested / welcome :-)

73, Stefan
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