Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id x26BCFuS003482 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 12:12:16 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1h1UGX-0003yT-M3 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2019 10:59:13 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1h1UGU-0003yK-KM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2019 10:59:10 +0000 Received: from sonic305-2.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.133.41]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1h1UGS-0005HW-Ff for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2019 10:59:09 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1551869943; bh=rULteshPHxCjPVtT5TSAZxbqFv4WMzXaC/JaMu/RW4U=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:From:Subject; b=l+inIt+tlyf1Sdd503DX0yK9u2nwG0fpsYjcSn9vnydp+TaKtH3znPtwF89Mu60HLhX60yMdZHP27VkxLmfqPZnX7PP6e4LUzFKJ+S6ktWX3qejpcQMXtwjzkUP9UZii2PO3tkh6ZFCLFPXW2cVFItNSGHS39I23hpjDwlN8iT0YuZ7yXHuGTIMq0FIgcYC8AKOIm7vt0QiTTyeqcoqvfcWMATn5fruOdrJcdsQBvzXvlCHJJddpMt+LTercKddDbrp0TCDUYCdl7yVCofMtHuFXKU3F42Dzfk+deGFL1Kjcby/bQuPrLhmj6LXYdqIvbQEfuEzr+R4G/8pLoNYGYw== X-YMail-OSG: yjvKntkVM1n5KjOVVDqu7h7yhIFiybiNLpL40_zwLFO8u0Jmw8ByXWGa_Od6.iZ u9bdl8xiitulIVphmGnM73yCPVVUc81l3DPm_N_hg1YgBGbtTQi2QvkdJnbm0FE_tD19ujUCpI7l 34mwNSp6Z_hpZh1AEt7WGvMaf_BHP4fdxCEZcuyFIsvkUzSLQv5TZu2tXmhVkUsKbdj0HKpL1m4N .i7fljwZ2MhuX.PnZ8wpu8t1G1O8yVAjYQUZx465z05CdMxR3GVYc5MFo08NDdJqpkVpvXScH15t lCtyHa_.VxWDBAOIpbdpRBDjAGuDWH334a6OwqlMimb3uN_ZUTk.SS11stke1b_TZe8ExffcWz9m pJF_L9qVo_OynU264v4THnU52O70psSngdQsQxLOd_84LcfOhgZCkWk65sOG7LR0hv1wLqYRDjKp WRHNHoQTsmDJUAA8aTKW0FY1Yhs_9tn2mf5Ute.HF1H0Nsk2D5vgNgJi.xhVZA5qQHO6TUU5DfHV MhLvQxkNAJLyEF_C8wpnckGPgIVaz75Gpgok9QyXhWbl3WEGRk2gJVUiHaCuZINotYnrJUKf9PN4 lCnS8._11oGt3wb145SRVmh81zYqTPYGPt_7uU4uBhcBZfneTNUgnYPRuQRUrDozJjcpgJuqn4qg SkOp0XNFcoMvAjISPhU6jdrJdkwG5SSDaOfCphzXtdbKsAuonD5CX_jjNApUY4xZ18PY6dgNiKim G2uzGdq9sNFUH.pS.IrVydRY0MLZympVWl36Ipt0ogvzif0gAQLSiR0CrfYwzbOGfxgRvlXk0llw 4cyZRMmjiz09tNGp7pLKVsJ2UksLBtxhItYQow.kJIbRsnk9ePU5IBvdI5qSvABXu7spLU.BoGD2 8gPz6_jE3vpNC69f0DdLi0SJN0lf7sBMJ0zHQApntp7FH4HYznYdx6R3xUStUZJ_Z96Jrz.5zo3u rYBi_ufAw5.Pm1u0vWKMDHAnA0uh9pyluDB8Ag0ENjeg_tSj0AMp9ahHrMXIYXyOLNtw2ZnPY_Rs P4bUv Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic305.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 10:59:03 +0000 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2019 10:59:00 +0000 (UTC) From: Markus Vester To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <349620444.212314.1551869940796@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <349620444.212314.1551869940796.ref@mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.13212 aolwebmail Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/7.0; rv:11.0) like Gecko X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Congrats to Jacek, Marcin and Paul! > ...chemistry :-) do we ground a special section of the LF Group? Guess we'd call that a radiochemistry club then ;-) Anyway a Polish tradition, since the great work by Marie Sklodowska Curie. Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [74.6.133.41 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (markusvester[at]aol.com) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 92b6515a4252c45136e975e6745a1e0d Subject: Re: VLF: Chemistry... Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_212313_1699594240.1551869940795" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.2 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false ------=_Part_212313_1699594240.1551869940795 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Congrats=C2=A0to Jacek, Marcin and Paul! > ...chemistry :-) do we ground a special section of the LF Group? Guess we'd=C2=A0call that=C2=A0a radiochemistry club then ;-)=C2=A0Anyway a= Polish=C2=A0tradition, since the great work=C2=A0by Marie Sklodowska Curie= . Could you perhaps post a picture of your Al - NaOH hydrogen apparatus used = for the balloon activity? 73, Markus -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung----- Von: marcocadeddu@tin.it An: rsgb_lf_group Verschickt: Di, 5. Mrz 2019 17:06 Betreff: R: RE: VLF: ebnaut transmission from Poland Hello Marcin, hello Jacek! it is nice to find a couple of chemistry graduates who find also actractive= MF/LF and VLF!I'm also a graduate in chemistry :-) do we ground a special = section of the LF group? :-D anybody else here with chemistry background? 73, Marco IK1HSS ----Messaggio originale---- Da: bxi@go2.pl Data: 4-mar-2019 22.07 A: Ogg: RE: VLF: ebnaut transmission from Poland Hello Stefan! Thank you, Stefan, for your remarks and your good words. Unfortunately, the antenna was mounted in a public venue that's why we had to take it down jus= t after our tests. We wanted to see whether it is possible to work in VLF using basic equipment. Once the weather conditions are good enough on a weekend I'll send an antenna mounted to a baloon into the air. I've already done something similar working on 472kHz.=20 https://klubnl.pl/wpr/en/index.php/2018/12/16/eksperyment-w-pasmie-630m-z-a= n tena-unoszona-za-pomoca-balonu/ Currently I'm building antenna coils on ferrite cores with high AL=3D12700. The circuit of the autotransformer has already been tested. When Jacek has a free weekend, we will be experimenting. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org On Behalf Of DK7FC Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 10:27 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: VLF: ebnaut transmission from Poland Hi Jacek, Marcin, Well done! Congratulations to a first VLF signal coming from SP that is detected over such a distance, more than 1000 km! This is truely encouragin= g and shows what could be done by MANY amateurs, if they would just give it a try! A milestone for your country, from an amateur radio view. Thanks for the details in that website. It is interesting to see that such ground loop antennas seem to work even in regions where the ground conductivity is expected to be quite high. Thanks to Paul's decode, you now have the certainty that the signal actually propagates. Well, the ground loop seems to radiate into Paul's direction and there is a lot of water on your path (between you and Paul). Also we (DL0AO and DK7FC) are closer to QRN sources in south-east Europe. This will contibute to our negative decode result here. On the other side we saw that the signal also propagates into unexpected directions, at least as long as the QRB is lower than 2000 km. It would be most welcome to see more activity from your side! And it looks like you can rise the ERP by 10 dB without much effort. Are you planning more experiments? And when? :-) The EbNaut message was transmitted during a time where phase changes are likely, because it was during the sunrise at your location. Maybe you can repeat the experiment, using 2 characters transmitted over 6 hours, starting 21 UTC for example? That would help us, here in the south, to receive your message. I will have a look at my signal recording to see the SNR for the message 'SP' later. At 75W and 300V antenna voltage you had 250 mA antenna current and, as you wrote, 1200 Ohm. If you have 500 Ohm DC resistance then i conclude that you did not series resonate the antenna. The reactive component was j1090 Ohm, so a series C of=C2=A0 177 nF (100+47+22 nF) would help to reduc= e the feed point impedance to 500 Ohm. Not sure if you could then run a higher power but at least the PA losses would be a bit lower. With some cheap 0.75mm2 CCA loudspeaker cable you could reduce the wire losses by about 90%. All this is very nice promising! Good luck and i hope to get a new chance to receive you here soon. 73, Stefan ------=_Part_212313_1699594240.1551869940795 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Congrats to Jacek,= Marcin and Paul!

> ...chemistry :-= ) do we ground a special section of the LF Group?

Guess we'd call that a radiochemistry club then ;-)&n= bsp;Anyway a Polish tradition, since the great work by Marie Sklo= dowska Curie.

Could you perhaps post a picture of your Al - NaOH hyd= rogen apparatus used for the balloon activity?

73, Markus

-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: marcocadeddu@tin.it <marcocadeddu@tin.it>
An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Verschickt: Di, 5. Mrz 2019 17:06
Betreff: R: R= E: VLF: ebnaut transmission from Poland

=
Hello Marcin, hello Jacek!

it is nice to find a couple of chemistry graduates who find= also actractive MF/LF and VLF!
I'm also a graduate in chemistry = :-) do we ground a special section of the LF group? :-D

anybody else here with chemistry background?

73, Marco IK1HSS

----Messaggio originale----
Da: bxi@go2.pl
Data: 4-mar-2019 22.07
A: <rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org>
Ogg: RE: VLF: ebnaut transmission from Poland

Hello Stefan!

Thank you, Stefan, for your remarks and your= good words. Unfortunately, the
antenna was mounted in a = public venue that's why we had to take it down just
after= our tests. We wanted to see whether it is possible to work in VLF
using basic equipment. Once the weather conditions are good enoug= h on a
weekend I'll send an antenna mounted to a baloon i= nto the air. I've already
done something similar working = on 472kHz.
https://klubnl.pl/wpr/en/index.php/2018/12/16= /eksperyment-w-pasmie-630m-z-an
tena-unoszona-za-pomoca-b= alonu/

Currently I'm building antenna = coils on ferrite cores with high AL=3D12700.
The circuit = of the autotransformer has already been tested.
When Jace= k has a free weekend, we will be experimenting.
73! Marci= n SQ2BXI

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
<owner-rsgb_= lf_group@blacksheep.org> On Behalf Of DK7FC
Sent: Mond= ay, March 4, 2019 10:27 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.o= rg
Subject: Re: VLF: ebnaut transmission from Poland

Hi Jacek, Marcin,

Well done! Congratulations to a first VLF signal coming from S= P that is
detected over such a distance, more than 1000 k= m! This is truely encouraging
and shows what could be don= e by MANY amateurs, if they would just give it a
try!
A milestone for your country, from an amateur radio view.
Thanks for the details in that website. = It is interesting to see that such
ground loop antennas s= eem to work even in regions where the ground
conductivity= is expected to be quite high. Thanks to Paul's decode, you now
have the certainty that the signal actually propagates.
Well, the ground loop seems to radiate into Paul's direction and ther= e is a
lot of water on your path (between you and Paul). = Also we (DL0AO and DK7FC)
are closer to QRN sources in so= uth-east Europe. This will contibute to our
negative deco= de result here.
On the other side we saw that the signal = also propagates into unexpected
directions, at least as l= ong as the QRB is lower than 2000 km.

= It would be most welcome to see more activity from your side! And it looks<= br clear=3D"none">like you can rise the ERP by 10 dB without much effort. A= re you planning
more experiments? And when? :-) The EbNau= t message was transmitted during a
time where phase chang= es are likely, because it was during the sunrise at
your = location. Maybe you can repeat the experiment, using 2 characters
transmitted over 6 hours, starting 21 UTC for example? That would= help us,
here in the south, to receive your message.
I will have a look at my signal recording to see the SNR for= the message
'SP' later.

At 75W and 300V antenna voltage you had 250 mA antenna current and, as= you
wrote, 1200 Ohm. If you have 500 Ohm DC resistance t= hen i conclude that you
did not series resonate the anten= na. The reactive component was
j1090 Ohm, so a series C o= f  177 nF (100+47+22 nF) would help to reduce the
fe= ed point impedance to 500 Ohm. Not sure if you could then run a higher
power but at least the PA losses would be a bit lower.

With some cheap 0.75mm2 CCA loudspeaker cabl= e you could reduce the wire
losses by about 90%.

All this is very nice promising!

Good luck and i hope to get a new chance to receive= you here soon.

73, Stefan


=
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