Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id x296oUL3026519 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 2019 07:50:38 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1h2VYV-0006rH-0X for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2019 06:33:59 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1h2VXD-0006r8-DJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2019 06:32:39 +0000 Received: from smtp2web.tin.it ([212.216.176.236]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1h2VXA-0001tO-FY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2019 06:32:38 +0000 Received: from feu13 (10.192.64.23) by smtp2web.tin.it (8.6.060.43) id 5B27C17305D768E0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 9 Mar 2019 07:32:30 +0100 Received: from (82.56.152.90) by webmailtin.pc.tim.it; Sat, 9 Mar 2019 07:32:30 +0100 Message-ID: <16961272bf4.marcocadeddu@tin.it> Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2019 07:32:30 +0100 (CET) From: "marcocadeddu@tin.it" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 82.56.152.90:1144 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Stefan, I have already finished my words of wonder... I'm sure you are looking for a suitable hammer to excite your ground-loop-rail-guard on frequencies below 1 Hz! ;-))) Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [212.216.176.236 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (marcocadeddu[at]tin.it) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: b7a5be947ef172afc0af98d5f0cdfe32 Subject: R: Re: LF: RE: RE: Almost touching the ground... | 12.47 Hz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_50843_23743169.1552113150967" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false ------=_Part_50843_23743169.1552113150967 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stefan, I have already finished my words of wonder... I'm sure you are looking for a suitable hammer to excite your ground-loop-r= ail-guard on frequencies below 1 Hz! ;-))) Marco, IK1HSS P.S. is it still the dreamer band?? Marcus you have to search for a new nam= e! ;-) ----Messaggio originale---- Da: selberdenken@posteo.de Data: 6-mar-2019 22.11 A: Ogg: Re: LF: RE: RE: Almost touching the ground... | 12.47 Hz Hello Jim, Luis, Jim,=20 thank you for the kind words. Well, yes, i would like to try 1 Hz and less, and try to transfer a message below 1 Hz! But my soundcard cut's off at 2 Hz, see attachment. Maybe this is due to the components on the soundcard and can be extended downwards. But first i would try 2.97 Hz or so. Currently i'm at 6.47 Hz but the E-field RX has a bad contact up in the tree again. I need to find and solve that problem. For the PA, doing 1 Hz or even 1 mHz is no Problem and i can hold the 5 kV rms at any frequency towards DC, including DC :-) If i can find the time soon i will draw the schematic of the ELF PA and will show it here. Currently i'm generating a spectrogram in SpecLab, running on a wav file (mono, resampled to 240 S/s) that covers 8 days of the carrier transmission on 12.47 Hz. It is set to 22 uHz FFT bin width and 3 hours/pixel scroll rate :-) Since SpecLab can do it in real-time only it will take 8 days to complete the spectrogram, but never mind, we have so much time, don't we?! I will show the result in a week then ;-) But i already see that the trace is very strong, mch better than expected and exactly on the frequency (as expected). Anyway it is good to see that all this works so well in that frequency range. It looks like a 10 km distance would be possible, if there would be a radio amateur with the necessary equipment and motivation (both very hard to find!). On the tree i have some self-made QRM below 10 Hz. This comes from the AM on the 5 V supply voltage. The culprit is the WLAN-stick and its data packages, consuming a few 100 mA but only durng the times where data is sent. It was filteres by a parallel C of 20 mF (low ESR) near the E field amplifier and a series L of about 1 H. But there's still that rest below 10 Hz. The E field amplifier uses a typical J310 circuit. Now i have the idea to play with an LMP7721 Op AMP instead, which should provide some rejection of the AC component of the supply voltage. Will see if this works well on the tree, at least i have a good signal to compare with. It would even allow to build in some gain below 50 Hz, on the cost of a changing phase... I wonder what distance could be made on the earth loop at ELF! I bet it will work much better because i can keep the antenna current constant down to DC and my PA already works below 10 Hz... More soon. 73, Stefan Am 06.03.2019 17:46, schrieb hvanesce@comcast.net: Stefan, Echoing Luis' comments this seems an inspiring journey into a wilderness area. If by ground you mean 0 dBHz, I will sincerely be on the edge of my chair waiting for your first spectral sub-surface (-0.1dBHz?) experiment. Fortunately the natural/cultural background has been characterized for your background-cancellation pleasure to -140 dBHz (see attached or page 4 of th= e link below), well below spectral ground. Natural/cultural background spectrum 45 dBHz to -140 dBHz: page 4 of: https://igpppublic.ucsd.edu/~cathy/Publications/Preprints/spectrum.pdf 73, Jim AA5BW -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of VIGILANT Luis Fern=C3=A1ndez Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2019 3:19 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Almost touching the ground... | 12.47 Hz Hi ELF Absolutely outstanding achievement Stefan A different world and truly physics experiment. Then you will have to hear those blind minded regulators claiming to state rules at this frequencies. Always recurrent to contest, QSOs and bandplans ... LoL!! But that is all you can expect from the average HF byassed amateur-lawyers we already have at IARU This is like Antarctica. Mother nature and virgin territory for the real pyoneers who dare to explore it My pleasure and deepest recognition for your success :-) 73 de Luis EA5DOM -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] En nombre de DK7FC Enviado el: martes, 05 de marzo de 2019 19:45 Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Asunto: ELF: Almost touching the ground... | 12.47 Hz Hi ELF friends, During the last 2 weeks i've done another experiment on ELF, this time on 12.47 Hz, the 24 Mm band (wavelength 24057 km). Again i've crossed the loca= l distance of 3.5 km. That's the lowest frequency i've ever been and it feels like i can see the ground already :-) The dimensions of everything down there are extreme. I've integrated 227 hours of a carrier transmission into one spectrum peak, it is shown in the attachment in 1.25 uHz. This carrier could have transferred an EbNaut message of nearly 100 characters. The ERP was 50 attowatt or -163 dBW and the antenna current was 170 uA only= , despite about 5 kV antenna voltage. I'm now trying to put a step below 10 Hz but the RX antenna becomes less efficient with each Hz. 73, Stefan =20 ------=_Part_50843_23743169.1552113150967 Content-Type: text/html;charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stefan,

I have already finished my words of wonder...

I'm sur= e you are looking for a suitable hammer to excite your ground-loop-rail-gua= rd on frequencies below 1 Hz!
;-)))

Marco, IK1HSS

P.S. is = it still the dreamer band?? Marcus you have to search for a new name! ;-)
----Messaggio originale----
Da: selberdenken@posteo.de
Data: 6-mar-2019 22.11
A: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Ogg: Re: LF: RE: RE: Almost touching the ground... | 12.47 Hz

Hello Jim, Luis, Jim,

thank you for the kind words. Well, yes, i would like to try 1 Hz and less, and try to transfer a message below 1 Hz! But my soundcard cut's off at 2 Hz, see attachment. Maybe this is due to the components on the soundcard and can be extended downwards. But first i would try 2.97 Hz or so. Currently i'm at 6.47 Hz but the E-field RX has a bad contact up in the tree again. I need to find and solve that problem.

For the PA, doing 1 Hz or even 1 mHz is no Problem and i can hold the 5 kV rms at any frequency towards DC, including DC :-) If i can find the time soon i will draw the schematic of the ELF PA and will show it here.
Currently i'm generating a spectrogram in SpecLab, running on a wav file (mono, resampled to 240 S/s) that covers 8 days of the carrier transmission on 12.47 Hz. It is set to 22 uHz FFT bin width and 3 hours/pixel scroll rate :-) Since SpecLab can do it in real-time only it will take 8 days to complete the spectrogram, but never mind, we have so much time, don't we?! I will show the result in a week then ;-) But i already see that the trace is very strong, mch better than expected and exactly on the frequency (as expected). Anyway it is good to see that all this works so well in that frequency range. It looks like a 10 km distance would be possible, if there would be a radio amateur with the necessary equipment and motivation (both very hard to find!).

On the tree i have some self-made QRM below 10 Hz. This comes from the AM on the 5 V supply voltage. The culprit is the WLAN-stick and its data packages, consuming a few 100 mA but only durng the times where data is sent. It was filteres by a parallel C of 20 mF (low ESR) near the E field amplifier and a series L of about 1 H. But there's still that rest below 10 Hz. The E field amplifier uses a typical J310 circuit.
Now i have the idea to play with an LMP7721 Op AMP instead, which should provide some rejection of the AC component of the supply voltage. Will see if this works well on the tree, at least i have a good signal to compare with. It would even allow to build in some gain below 50 Hz, on the cost of a changing phase...

I wonder what distance could be made on the earth loop at ELF! I bet it will work much better because i can keep the antenna current constant down to DC and my PA already works below 10 Hz...

More soon.

73, Stefan


Am 06.03.2019 17:46, schrieb hvanesce@comcast.net: 
Stefan,

Echoing Luis' comments this seems an inspiring journey into a wilderness
area. If by ground you mean 0 dBHz, I will sincerely be on the edge of my
chair waiting for your first spectral sub-surface (-0.1dBHz?) experiment.

Fortunately the natural/cultural background has been characterized for your
background-cancellation pleasure to -140 dBHz (see attached or page 4 of th=
e
link below), well below spectral ground.

Natural/cultural background spectrum 45 dBHz to -140 dBHz: page 4 of:
https://igpppublic.ucsd.edu/~cathy/=
Publications/Preprints/spectrum.pdf

73,

Jim AA5BW


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of VIG=
ILANT Luis
Fern=C3=A1ndez
Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2019 3:19 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: RE: Almost touching the ground... | 12.47 Hz

Hi ELF

Absolutely outstanding achievement Stefan

A different world and truly physics experiment. Then you will have to hear
those blind minded regulators claiming to state rules at this frequencies.
Always recurrent to contest, QSOs and bandplans ... LoL!!
But that is all you can expect from the average HF byassed amateur-lawyers
we already have at IARU

This is like Antarctica. Mother nature and virgin territory for the real
pyoneers who dare to explore it

My pleasure and deepest recognition for your success :-)

73 de Luis
EA5DOM

-----Mensaje original-----
De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] En nombre de DK7=
FC Enviado el:
martes, 05 de marzo de 2019 19:45
Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Asunto: ELF: Almost touching the ground... | 12.47 Hz

Hi ELF friends,

During the last 2 weeks i've done another experiment on ELF, this time on
12.47 Hz, the 24 Mm band (wavelength 24057 km). Again i've crossed the loca=
l
distance of 3.5 km. That's the lowest frequency i've ever been and it feels
like i can see the ground already :-) The dimensions of everything down
there are extreme. I've integrated 227 hours of a carrier transmission into
one spectrum peak, it is shown in the attachment in 1.25 uHz. This carrier
could have transferred an EbNaut message of nearly 100 characters.

The ERP was 50 attowatt or -163 dBW and the antenna current was 170 uA only=
,
despite about 5 kV antenna voltage.

I'm now trying to put a step below 10 Hz but the RX antenna becomes less
efficient with each Hz.

73, Stefan


------=_Part_50843_23743169.1552113150967--