Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id x1QIFpvD007990 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 19:15:57 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1gyhCF-0002mx-4G for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 18:11:15 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1gyhCE-0002mo-FG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 18:11:14 +0000 Received: from mail-ua1-x934.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::934]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1gyhCB-000171-8X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 18:11:13 +0000 Received: by mail-ua1-x934.google.com with SMTP id s15so12722402uap.6 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 10:11:10 -0800 (PST) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=gmail.com Result=Good and Known Domain DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=1VwqP8vFDhWmer4LfeVB+nTXHA2XOFK8fqC81+DiZmI=; b=hz8GftFM5Zi45NggexQHx7Lzk6sEuHHMvxFF9jrqbYBUdur7cUnaNncV2p6vFUJ+xn ZBMuyW4FosBWFo0un6aGTRSAVvEVEx7VvUgteigLHmQHWf/MHqmscwKfLTyNi1wq3iml ZojllzjERKvtW7ELEh5i4tiU+17eVb2P8dsCj8lm0RzYC3e1vRipPaYGS4US72cArLIW JuR1wjrqrhfcapG95EydCmgx7Qq7AcbeU8bt35LNF6XVQHc1ra+eDPyUtbQG7w4yF+Ll MG70Ya2C0TFtSfFUHfG8dZ0nWe2O4RuWgEBZ+4OGBK9z/Me3KcHIK8ViKST0qGCG78gv IoUQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=1VwqP8vFDhWmer4LfeVB+nTXHA2XOFK8fqC81+DiZmI=; b=t7M/S0A8jKYfSVYDd5+zFHMpPPPnLRpiSO3ltBXtZz8Fxb2uj4wicFqPugKxwRgtal vZzoE8yllwNZKO93tFT/dMK4Asl/EgLmEN/jOJngdxMmVlLL7vFfuRBTZewju5Llk8Ok REYRBxGhr92frR2yM/fWgVRPJmD/qhaTLBsWRR/P8Jbn0CX+T2/yQnVHk7i2HkKPe1Wk cjaSsAu+mvlI9ubzPyuekGOHuFc/G4k5F4ijwA8ABDQGIWaZ/aJ7El7psp7rXYZVm98t KsjU+jXesTW0H/xdJwN39449/VqkWVRgDpbQKV7j9vXZmnM2fgH2A5R/RUqJTXibxx6k J8Gw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuYZK2ZdBK2fE5feKNnqYrV3MpIzO45exz2ZhQE0GhJ39g9xkruM OVsBtRL3Xqg/bg+3jD+kYweIB6uQHLxarb/SGstOZA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3Iaj5HerPPyw+mmIjR2NoTD2ALtm2//e8v25oCvWouMETkvbbTh3PeiklsaOqFSwRX7cq5GAaq1A39DGmM3UCQI= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:7799:: with SMTP id x25mr8701568uar.81.1551204669537; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 10:11:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <942860C848184BA2A0A9103E0EE56DF7@DELL4> <1UTEEgOcyQ.DAejAuRZtn9@optiplex980-pc> <92784b07-a799-fb4e-9080-e1e8bb167b75@n1bug.com> <1UTEEhG1Ft.EdI1dlVbFOZ@optiplex980-pc> <3062ef19-bb69-3187-e8db-6a6bf5050739@n1bug.com> <234098919.20190226111836@gmail.com> <0a79de5c-3274-caae-c000-d5f49bb44540@no3m.net> <21240445.20190226160950@gmail.com> <1701178244.20190226170757@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1701178244.20190226170757@gmail.com> From: Andy Talbot Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2019 18:10:47 +0000 Message-ID: To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" , rsgb-lf-group@groups.io X-Spam-Score: 2.3 (++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: I'll put it in the groups.io folder under my callsign [image: LF_IFACE.gif] Andy www.g4jnt.com On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 at 17:12, Chris Wilson wrote: > > > Hello Andy, > > Thanks for that! Bearing in mind i am not the sharpest knife in this > drawer, would that perhaps explain why the U3S Si5351a output drives > more > reliably at 3.3V than say the [...] Content analysis details: (2.3 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [2607:f8b0:4864:20:0:0:0:934 listed in] [list.dnswl.org] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (andy.g4jnt[at]gmail.com) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 1.3 DC_GIF_UNO_LARGO Message contains a single large gif image 1.0 FREEMAIL_REPLY From and body contain different freemails X-Scan-Signature: 91e1efbff209cbddb14bc9e018c2cfe8 Subject: Re: LF: Class D current spikes Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="0000000000004e04a80582cffb29" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false --0000000000004e04a80582cffb29 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004e04a60582cffb28" --0000000000004e04a60582cffb28 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I'll put it in the groups.io folder under my callsign [image: LF_IFACE.gif] Andy www.g4jnt.com On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 at 17:12, Chris Wilson wrote: > > > Hello Andy, > > Thanks for that! Bearing in mind i am not the sharpest knife in this > drawer, would that perhaps explain why the U3S Si5351a output drives > more > reliably at 3.3V than say the output of a doubler / pre amp (and I was > never > happy about the pre amp output level being correct...), and perhaps > the output from the squarer also being more "reliable"? Would you be > able to sketch an interface design to try please? Thanks again, are we > getting somewhere? ;) > > Tuesday, February 26, 2019, 4:38:15 PM, you wrote: > > > AH - HA !!!!!!!!!!!! > > Therein may lie your problem. If you take your input direct to > > the 74F74 clock and don't hit that with anything other than a square > > wave you are bound to have problems. TTL devices (and F series > > really IS real TTL) get very unhappy with slow edges and can > > oscillate or show instability at the edges > > > > Even if you precede that with the classic inverter and linearising > > resistor, at low frequencies you will often see instability. That > > fed-back gate design usually works fine at tens of MHz and up, even > > MHz, but expect instability at kHz frequencies. Look at the output > > on a scope, and don't be surprised to see ringing on the edges , > > especially at low drive levels, and low drive levels are just what > > you get when the input waveform is keyed on / off > > > > At these frequencies, linear to logic conversion really MUST be > > done with a Schmitt trigger. 74xCT14 or similar. Use the ACT or > > HCT families as opposed to the HC or AC ones as they have a smaller > > hysteresis between Vin(HI) and Vin(lo), allowing for lower amplitude > > drive. They also need different centre biassing for AC coupled > > signals. Assuming a 5V rail, Use 2.5V for HC and AC families, 1.8V > for ACT and HCT devices. > > > > Or an RS422 / RS485 line receiver works well; that has even lower > > hysteresis and hence lower permitted drive level. > > > > Andy > > www.g4jnt.com > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Chris mailto:dead.fets@gmail.com > > > --0000000000004e04a60582cffb28 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'll put it in the groups.io folder under my callsign

On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 at 17:12, Chris Wilso= n <dead.fets@gmail.com> wr= ote:


Hello Andy,

Thanks for that! Bearing in mind i am not the sharpest knife in this
drawer,=C2=A0 would=C2=A0 that=C2=A0 perhaps explain=C2=A0 why the U3S Si53= 51a output drives more
reliably at 3.3V=C2=A0 than=C2=A0 say the output of a doubler / pre amp (an= d I was never
happy=C2=A0 about=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 pre amp output level being correct...), a= nd perhaps
the=C2=A0 output=C2=A0 from the squarer also being more "reliable"= ;? Would you be
able to sketch an interface design to try please? Thanks again, are we
getting somewhere? ;)

Tuesday, February 26, 2019, 4:38:15 PM, you wrote:

> AH - HA !!!!!!!!!!!!
> Therein may lie your problem.=C2=A0 =C2=A0If you take your input direc= t to
> the 74F74 clock and don't hit that with anything other than a squa= re
> wave you are bound to have problems.=C2=A0 =C2=A0TTL devices (and F se= ries
> really IS real TTL) get very unhappy with slow edges and can
> oscillate or show instability at the edges


> Even if you precede that with the classic inverter and linearising
> resistor, at low frequencies you will often see instability.=C2=A0 =C2= =A0That
> fed-back gate design usually works fine at tens of MHz and up, even > MHz, but expect instability at kHz frequencies.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Look at th= e output
> on a scope, and don't be surprised to see ringing on the edges , > especially at low drive levels, and low drive levels are just what
> you get when the input waveform is keyed on / off


> At these frequencies, linear to logic conversion really MUST be
> done with a Schmitt trigger.=C2=A0 =C2=A074xCT14 or similar.=C2=A0 =C2= =A0Use the ACT or
> HCT families as opposed to the HC or AC ones as they have a smaller > hysteresis between Vin(HI) and Vin(lo), allowing for lower amplitude > drive.=C2=A0 They also need different centre biassing for AC coupled > signals.=C2=A0 Assuming a 5V rail, Use 2.5V=C2=A0 for HC and AC famili= es,=C2=A0 1.8V for ACT and=C2=A0 HCT devices.


> Or an RS422 / RS485=C2=A0 line receiver works well; that has even lowe= r
> hysteresis and hence lower permitted drive level.


> Andy
> = www.g4jnt.com




--
Best regards,
=C2=A0Chris=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 mailto:dead.fets@gmail.com


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