Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id wB7JWnuO018420 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2018 20:32:51 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1gVLhp-0000FG-U5 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2018 19:22:33 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1gVLhp-0000F7-4Z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2018 19:22:33 +0000 Received: from sonic315-14.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.134.124]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.91_59-0488984) (envelope-from ) id 1gVLhn-0007Ft-7E for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2018 19:22:32 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1544210547; bh=cbXEquYkeHjtyabhsMUbMDkFB5GZOd264dlp+lWNVII=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:From:Subject; b=IfndhJkeAx6TyiDdsn4NqFTpj62tP62y5QbfT2bj15aCmtm+8SHOjLP2mV5ZpE+tbj6BfRVrl1qdLLRwUs2NWadFAbj8hxf7GkbURH8pBfRT5yfOsy+VNZti7uVwwfCMAGEg+uXXeO5MumE+e+wFvgxwDExm1Zq98Q2qPkR/BhBt/JazmTp7WCbxEKRsev9/Ep8x51E2hWcXeoWb8pIonqQmm8IginfRR6ML2YGd6yzEjd6snYV3B+yH+J7sU0oSzaXq8Gd4/DZM9p4M8MRqS5CjEBGKH3znm8OQC9a1H3bccmlyibA4yPOIJHQJPypSPZjyDNH8KLBqgvn8GrtMuQ== X-YMail-OSG: 81_SfukVM1nUw9U3MWCqE74lrNF.GEg5qRc5gPf5L6GmU1b0UAB4Wkh7s0DjKck TAEyeCMH6XhXnqjZtfdMilGcS5EE4ZlZvfcHY6oFZBlQGWotXoMZ5iH5DisvvmbyMyfQZcNalqQb 87rZH4NHDZJkY2ar4Ad074BOEe.rxHpB04BUWFhMpQn_v3stqd0SUd14_F7eeXAfOdPkeaJptigA ubQf2KOLuNCqjjoQ2MUAOw7mtCkq7_1mnFIYPfZTbHAtObVXJ98upqjY_v8ja6ulYUrOoQGhF395 bSq3q2hcTeJEbNP9DbL5aYiizlUvuAsMAbwhxyDFhlE3_tbBKXLvtH_0L8wm_pV0REvwqhAlAMa6 AzCskxtw6pH9WScD.gl8FOl62ZKSbiVXHwZnHgQssu5V77.ab2QUm99d1er_w2rVcnNsW2F0609k 74SLkOwRAyG_7x526_I7xwKFaSih784Jyhwbsh2L49deTTpcYuLFTmXftHTtwsyhslo4cOStBpwV 6WG5P0GywLI014yt7Vfg3PXdg4ne9Q1yu0fR5E2DJH5y8A4q73IRrtLZcewQ1Q_H_0kV.eQeftBJ gqpSJUW.Jig5mMs_6cbJ.Q6ZFUzJoZ67YsU.zhzAlEquyT6E7ACUoCPufvQVGacsE2.0owQ_EsiO ib6kNHhE6.nWiDOMFSpBNgYntQ_InKldxH7MLnLKD.1CvzU8ayr9F6GiDviwn0MCC0CaWuI63igm pFg7d1fjw1pajWUurPwoXBng6X9yuIDKFWrYPTWDaQwwmuwvRSQzqKFsIanpzK__6dIPHrvHRmXX .hIvai53VQcK.eLQB.DI5DiF88gTXlBsWCcegwBz.d2WX_mNRKp2KuAAgkzbvXRWcFx8IidBVH_o abmAsQgnvy0Qgd.RbVhqV0tCx7JTDPvB3NCAzjnJsRvJIYT8NAExMeVINqqzCy4ePIGiWa.by.zT eY4ByE75GGN1SibqwMFq8Cm_0etEM Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic315.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 7 Dec 2018 19:22:27 +0000 Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 19:22:20 +0000 (UTC) From: Markus Vester To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <1940641054.649205.1544210541006@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1940641054.649205.1544210541006.ref@mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.12857 aolwebmail Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; Trident/7.0; Touch; rv:11.0) like Gecko X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: That's an interesting one, surpassing Shannon more than 30 times! Surely good for a paper in Nature ;-) I suspect that the noise measurement in EbNaut includes out-of-band energy, i.e. whatever is contained in the decimated IQ audio passband, but outside the symbol filter's bandwidth. In this the "lo [...] Content analysis details: (1.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [74.6.134.124 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (markusvester[at]aol.com) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32 BODY: HTML: images with 2800-3200 bytes of words 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid 1.0 FREEMAIL_REPLY From and body contain different freemails X-Scan-Signature: fce77e88417377663dedf94f027ec622 Subject: Re: LF: LF and VLF EbNaut Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_649204_54233192.1544210541006" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA,HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false ------=_Part_649204_54233192.1544210541006 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_649199_246151277.1544210540741" ------=_Part_649199_246151277.1544210540741 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That's an interesting one, surpassing Shannon more than 30 times! Surely=C2= =A0good=C2=A0for a paper in Nature ;-) I suspect=C2=A0that the=C2=A0noise measurement in EbNaut includes out-of-ba= nd energy, i.e. whatever is contained in the decimated IQ audio passband, b= ut outside the symbol filter's bandwidth. In this=C2=A0the "local"=C2=A0sig= nal from=C2=A0Rob was obviously accounted as "noise".=C2=A0 Wonder if there= was another way to measure noise only inside the symbol bandwidth.=C2=A0If= we take the=C2=A0complex symbol amplitudes,=C2=A0undo the PSK inversions a= fter the decode, and apply a Fourier transform, the=C2=A0reconstructed carr= ier would ideally reside only in the central=C2=A0bin,=C2=A0allowing evalua= tion of average or quartile power from the other bins as noise. PS: Joe's=C2=A0first transmisson=C2=A0arrived here straight away, despite= =C2=A0daylight in Canada. 73, Markus -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung----- Von: jrusgrove@comcast.net An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Verschickt: Fr, 7. Dez 2018 19:36 Betreff: Re: LF: LF and VLF EbNaut #yiv2096141499 body {margin:0.7em;}#yiv2096141499 body.yiv2096141499OECFntD= ef, #yiv2096141499 body.yiv2096141499OECFntDef div {font-family:Arial, Taho= ma, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;}Joe=C2=A0Just noticed I = overlooked the 0300 transmission ...=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Jay W1VD ------=_Part_649199_246151277.1544210540741 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
That's an interesting one, sur= passing Shannon more than 30 times! Surely good for a paper in Na= ture ;-)

I sus= pect that the noise measurement in EbNaut includes out-of-band en= ergy, i.e. whatever is contained in the decimated IQ audio passband, but ou= tside the symbol filter's bandwidth. In this the "local" signal f= rom Rob was obviously accounted as "noise".  Wonder if there was = another way to measure noise only inside the symbol bandwidth. If we t= ake the complex symbol amplitudes, undo the PSK inversions after = the decode, and apply a Fourier transform, the reconstructed carrier w= ould ideally reside only in the central bin, allowing evaluation = of average or quartile power from the other bins as noise.

PS: Joe's first transmiss= on arrived here straight away, despite daylight in Canada.
73, Markus

--= ---Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: jr= usgrove@comcast.net <jrusgrove@comcast.net>
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org><= br clear=3D"none" abp=3D"741">Verschickt: Fr, 7. Dez 2018 19:36
Betreff: Re: LF: LF and VLF EbNaut

Joe
 
Just noticed I overlooked the 0300 transmission ... <= /div>
 
3D""
 
Jay W1VD
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