Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id wBTK0Cwq026035 for ; Sat, 29 Dec 2018 21:00:13 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1gdKiZ-0005Z9-I5 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Dec 2018 19:56:19 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1gdKiY-0005Z0-7d for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Dec 2018 19:56:18 +0000 Received: from sonic305-3.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.133.42]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.91_59-0488984) (envelope-from ) id 1gdKiV-0007Mk-O9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Dec 2018 19:56:17 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1546113372; bh=17T3/riyZC+7IpXzIKFgCxfSdjqSnNDqXg8Ll1utfEc=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:From:Subject; b=S2Agpo+ACwuXruVToruMr2akhvermSQpLaAikBFWR5tF7TW+Vat55Sazt0V9XKFixazSRsW0jlS0Ka9GOGkw/FUOcpcFupSFr47ucBHqUpmoCzbyozSNTsOKyf9fMBtvlBwPOBvQD5F3RoJfjxiLomIzjGr3DdJN1AzNbMyZRsuxJT96n1kQ69OxADPhKdM/U0YTkOE3BlAh/AgubOJ2Ag2dKoSMbeTTrNuPA/qLBsqFKylPdtbw5Wb5w8rN4fzWdpAKr1yZDf3jDWs/SyF3jGUJ2uDSTbOcEe9PpRAhcpmhjNMqVzjgP/0KnnwCmtfj6cw9DEpsQgabqB3zp6gjqA== X-YMail-OSG: 6d088HgVM1m68ZZT0dzS7YIcu2rX8fJ3aYKZmm6nISseF_UEl4ubYS9WnhdSo9. kC083OZul.NNUedAoRH9y8Nok.qtxjMfaxqD.OFDkgDevCFPcAIX.Y131Aw7G.0QVih.pLOaMa1N YVZmQMy2xy2Ft.Ybrd4nKyYJDFRZ10Y9LXzdmYQQf7z2aY.GS_WDu1kOT0tA55CfRCHQOWPTAfZp 1x28Ijju_HwCkjYfoDHyThh3zwKxryc3PHohZvCB8XUQr8JqYErsZbAp_MV8SYVhtg5OfmRac2LL 4X.JKfyq1Mm9DtDVdxfsJCCch250XhtM7or7xda2EtUXrSG3h6tzSW0c2meNErdJ.jwbPyHlI2wM Fi4G7vDnzlj4Es9cG5sN_PjMlFECTMEN6TEV6tB8y4Vw3cF9zLAP5XNOSA2zGYx8KG.Fftt18kje kbpUsepupYOjuew.8ju47HJkB3NIydQA5facNdQXdQZ3V4DbRN_fWw9GXRZS25qYySr0U4wz3lr. 9flGTYQr7CrmnRQhzUqib2loSeAfqAaCXAvFUUoH15uHLJsJox3WWn1z5Q0omNzJlnI7C9iG8THp Nh8R2Tr914cuQBWJq__4xoEunDCusMyZOshAbWclsLfQvUgCwWM2w._EdT5u8pcGCu.mv2RlXzoT nL5gWrvvO8rFRDjfqjadf7SBbRLs5fMkbZshiUHTUJRc2MC4N4qv40RjHrT.A7notqMsp2a9bSdk NicBJtMXJq1Panof32RgiLHzMimLglHdpw8lq7cerlWjWRSeCNzs_1djcUkFxeOFUnqcr2MAiZ99 iff2P33zzjaUbP2uKNxpNlbkMuuADTpbSLMhGaLeQsXkohyUia4cP_MjtTcntV0YG9WuQXXhnhZx UUX_tteHJWWGiejsaNGzKX0Y6Bf9k08z5XeJwRx3Ax_Wf0SFWJFJb_uMIu03Jy3yEuZhQk5l54cU SG.GA2bPlLMIY7leRYlwbToXgUQhvqvqUJaYWFGUpt5a5zXlQPrZQOKyw7PMDGpdnpwURddd3qi9 H.h8ojMQPWFIOiHQ- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic305.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 29 Dec 2018 19:56:12 +0000 Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2018 19:56:09 +0000 (UTC) From: Markus Vester To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <1274597095.10609542.1546113369131@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1274597095.10609542.1546113369131.ref@mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.12857 aolwebmail Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; Trident/7.0; Touch; rv:11.0) like Gecko X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Hi Stefan, a similar "miracle" occured at DL0AO: The trace from your ground loop appeared very strong on the NS-loop, which should have a null towards your transmitter. The peak was - 120 dB on EW and V, and - [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [74.6.133.42 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (markusvester[at]aol.com) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: d5ac66e7920295f519efeb68ecc59e6f Subject: Re: LF: VLF Carrier on 8270.01 Hz from a ground loop antenna - The 6th station on Paul's spectrogram Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10609541_1480124382.1546113369130" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.2 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false ------=_Part_10609541_1480124382.1546113369130 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan, a similar "miracle" occured at DL0AO: The trace from your ground loop appea= red=C2=A0very strong on the NS-loop, which should have a null towards your = transmitter. The peak was - 120 dB on EW and V, and=C2=A0-125 dB on NS, onl= y 5 dB difference.=20 I believe our=C2=A0N-S receive loop is seeing only the=C2=A0skywave compone= nt. Due to the angular orientation of your=C2=A0transmit=C2=A0loop, the ele= ctric field of the upward radiation will be=C2=A0polarized in the NW-SE dir= ection, with the orthogonal magnetic field=C2=A0pointing NE-SW. This polari= zation will be more or less retained during the reflection (possibly=C2=A0r= otated a bit by Faraday effect). So=C2=A0the downgoing wave will also conta= in=C2=A0a magnetic field component=C2=A0in the E-W direction, which=C2=A0is= then picked up by=C2=A0the NS-loop. So yes, earth loops are loops. Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung----- Von: DK7FC An: rsgb_lf_group Verschickt: Sa, 29. Dez 2018 19:27 Betreff: Re: LF: VLF Carrier on 8270.01 Hz from a ground loop antenna - The= 6th station on Paul's spectrogram Hello Jacek, Oh, indeed, very clear! I did not expect this at all. The loop, if it=20 behaves as a loop at all (!), points towards Paul. It should have a null=20 into your direction. Our distance is 976 km !=20 http://k7fry.com/grid/?qth=3DKO02MD&from=3DJN39WI Why do you see the signal at all? I'm puzzled but it feels good :-) Tomorrow, maybe i'll do something on 2970.01 Hz! 73, Stefan Am 29.12.2018 18:25, schrieb Jacek Lipkowski: > Good signal on my grabber: > > https://klubnl.pl/wpr/en/index.php/klubnl-pl-grabbers/grabber-4-8270hz/ > > What is the antenna orientation? > > jacek > > On Sat, 29 Dec 2018, DK7FC wrote: > >> Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2018 13:43:14 +0100 >> From: DK7FC >> Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> Subject: LF: VLF Carrier on 8270.01 Hz from a ground loop antenna -=20 >> The 6th >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 station on Paul's spectrogram >> >> Hi VLF friends, >> >> Since 11:35 UTC i'm running about 2.5 A antenna current into my 900m=20 >> long ground loop antenna. Frequency is 8270.01 Hz. The signal is very=20 >> strong on my own grabber in 57.6 km distance but also at DF6NM, DL0AO=20 >> and it looks like there is a peak now on Paul's spectrogram building=20 >> up slowly. >> I intend to run the carrier for 2 hours or so, until the accu is=20 >> almost empty :-) >> The H bridge PA voltage is 175 V and the power consumption is 450 W. >> Today, the DC measuremant result is 66V for 1 A antenna current. It=20 >> is cold and wet! >> More soon. >> >> 73 de DK7FC/P in JN39WI >> >> PS: The QRN is exceptional low!!!! >> ------=_Part_10609541_1480124382.1546113369130 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Stefan,

a similar "miracle" occured at DL0AO: = The trace from your ground loop appeared very strong on the NS-loop, w= hich should have a null towards your transmitter. The peak was - 120 dB on = EW and V, and -125 dB on NS, only 5 dB difference.

I believe o= ur N-S receive loop is seeing only the skywave component. Due to = the angular orientation of your transmit loop, the electric field= of the upward radiation will be polarized in the NW-SE direction, wit= h the orthogonal magnetic field pointing NE-SW. This polarization will= be more or less retained during the reflection (possibly rotated a bi= t by Faraday effect). So the downgoing wave will also contain a m= agnetic field component in the E-W direction, which is then picke= d up by the NS-loop.

So yes, earth loops are loops.

Best= 73,
Markus (DF6NM)

-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
Vo= n: DK7FC <selberdenken@posteo.de>
An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_gr= oup@blacksheep.org>
Verschickt: Sa, 29. Dez 2018 19:27
Betreff: Re= : LF: VLF Carrier on 8270.01 Hz from a ground loop antenna - The 6th statio= n on Paul's spectrogram

Hello Jacek,

Oh, indeed, very clear! I did not expect this = at all. The loop, if it
behaves as a loop at all (!), po= ints towards Paul. It should have a null
into your direc= tion. Our distance is 976 km !
http://k7fry.com/grid/?qth=3DKO02MD&from=3DJ= N39WI
Why do you see the signal at all? I'm puzzled b= ut it feels good :-)

Tomorrow, maybe i= 'll do something on 2970.01 Hz!

73, St= efan


Am 29.12.2018 18:25, schrieb Jacek Lipko= wski:
> Good signal on my grabber:
&= gt;
> https://klubnl.pl/wpr/en/index.php/klubnl-pl-grabbers= /grabber-4-8270hz/
>
> What i= s the antenna orientation?
>
> ja= cek
>
> On Sat, 29 Dec 2018, DK7F= C wrote:
>
>> Date: Sat, 29 De= c 2018 13:43:14 +0100
>> From: DK7FC <selberdenken@posteo.de>>> Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
= >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>> Subject: LF: = VLF Carrier on 8270.01 Hz from a ground loop antenna -
&= gt;> The 6th
>>    station on Paul's = spectrogram
>>
>> Hi VLF fr= iends,
>>
>> Since 11:35 UT= C i'm running about 2.5 A antenna current into my 900m
&= gt;> long ground loop antenna. Frequency is 8270.01 Hz. The signal is ve= ry
>> strong on my own grabber in 57.6 km distance= but also at DF6NM, DL0AO
>> and it looks like the= re is a peak now on Paul's spectrogram building
>>= up slowly.
>> I intend to run the carrier for 2 ho= urs or so, until the accu is
>> almost empty :-)>> The H bridge PA voltage is 175 V and the power co= nsumption is 450 W.
>> Today, the DC measuremant re= sult is 66V for 1 A antenna current. It
>> is cold= and wet!
>> More soon.
>><= br clear=3D"none">>> 73 de DK7FC/P in JN39WI
>&g= t;
>> PS: The QRN is exceptional low!!!!
>>

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