Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w8T8leoe000729 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 10:47:43 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1g6ApY-00059r-A8 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 09:42:28 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1g6ApW-00059i-0v for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 09:42:26 +0100 Received: from mail-ed1-x536.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::536]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91_59-0488984) (envelope-from ) id 1g6ApS-0005q6-RF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 09:42:24 +0100 Received: by mail-ed1-x536.google.com with SMTP id f4-v6so10098337edq.3 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 01:42:22 -0700 (PDT) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=gmail.com Result=Good and Known Domain DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=LE8+HsgtSy0oku/iQPY0zEC+/DfkdoQMiDT8Xz+8LUU=; b=cO03h7/qfWOPb5Gn/yiqi7PirZ9VMyTk4D8nPn2uVVzW7LbJDOxIQeVW8szxK+vuuq 4L0isIicFy0OpsOyzL41QjM3bKXlSNskgehses5h2oGrUL7G8o7usJaDwA3YMYPu86TN twdfSEjrd3p20V+bkgZCK96wJGZM09xFyLN3FKjahenT+TR+87Ephuh3hLgFhQCIk74S 0qXa2qm0pSFZcgoJ+VsaRlLh1iy0+UISariKj68okJjZSmicqjcl3tngnPJUveI8qa3i qsMzNUMdEpYfiIg7lmQwGuv7X4hWQGhtlS6+Icikp+dVnEXnhImnVvZQqHIX68O+2+iq /AOA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=LE8+HsgtSy0oku/iQPY0zEC+/DfkdoQMiDT8Xz+8LUU=; b=HGXZjssnsO/rUsi0jYcjEEtyOYtHcK03BnrkhZ0vW9HsbXLgHHNrJ5kUXGjs6R3S8j yu+KQyi46iOKGsbEDMvcj+Rj/w5TTAoFaHbfzeOOHACwSbTp/+c54+e4BaHjKk+uJ7oU b+FH3BeVsh13ZVGN6GfeaqydsqdtlcOJUYkYoWxjCMjxozApmEPt/czU177quiGNPUmi 1bndeeVesWmI3P93WyszA5U+6o2onhLahr1lcgHFFuSNj6ZGI5gLEtCI3yfDpROwabSU fP1shL6S+aSScWHLvwNQppTBvM72uhZ7lCv+ipRB/WhwqxTshnTi6SNrvRM/aEhBCOEV 70PA== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoiuix8n1bo+7s6I3K0eMFslLzd/DUw8Zb4opEQFenERVbOhour3 9eW329O8s+7Qs6bIbcO7DcGkVEuDvqXpzfSbsPbxRA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV60o0bFe9ggmErLa5GCfd7+7WQPAQuNpXQ+WNRqmsS7IWOJ9zPtp25ciFZhQq1M8wkFQHnt/en6sd/jJA0TyEs8= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:d441:: with SMTP id q1-v6mr7494695edr.26.1538210541216; Sat, 29 Sep 2018 01:42:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <6DB8451D7F3D3947A5918808A59621EA08642503@servigilant.vigilant.local> In-Reply-To: <6DB8451D7F3D3947A5918808A59621EA08642503@servigilant.vigilant.local> From: Andy Talbot Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 09:42:10 +0100 Message-ID: To: LineOne X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: If you stop and start a divider, the phase jumps about randomly. Each time you start the divider, its output signal starts up in a differnet phase to what it would have been if left running To achieve phase coherent, you must keep the divider running and gate the OUTPUT separately [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [2a00:1450:4864:20:0:0:0:536 listed in] [list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (andy.g4jnt[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: cbf9d9751ac5f32708197d03fa6d8d74 Subject: Re: LF: Signal bandwidth in Op32 LF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e6296f0576fe8c7a" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false --000000000000e6296f0576fe8c7a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you stop and start a divider, the phase jumps about randomly. Each time you start the divider, its output signal starts up in a differnet phase to what it would have been if left running To achieve phase coherent, you must keep the divider running and gate the OUTPUT separately This issue is a problem with beacons in general that employ FSK keying for their CW ident. If they adopted on-off keying, then long term integration cold take place though the keying cycle. But unfortunately, IARU (or whatever organisation that tries to mandate these things), appear to require FSK keying. SO most beacon keepers comply. (I don't, the Bell Hill microwave beacons, GB3SCx all use on-off keying) Andy www.g4jnt.com On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 at 09:10, VIGILANT Luis Fern=C3=A1ndez wrote: > Hi LF > > I'm puzzled with the readings of bandwidth at the Op32 correlation > detection grabbers > > As source I'm using a GPS generated signal, which is coherent in phase an= d > works for EbNaut > So I tested this at 20x frequency to drive an small D class PA and > modulated in Opera32 > The OOK was achieved by enabling/disabling a divider by 10 just after GPS > > Sourprisingly, my decodes at DF6NM and DL0AO varied in width, but always > showing width of a non coherent signal > > 2018-09-24 16:55:09 EA5DOM 1500km 137485.051Hz 71mHz -99.9dBOp 78% 17.= 6dB > 2018-09-24 15:35:10 EA5DOM 1500km 137485.026Hz 114mHz -99.9dBOp 100% 17.= 3dB > > 2018-09-24 14:13:18 EA5DOM 1500km 137485.039Hz 164mHz -37.2dBOp 100% 20.= 7dB > > 2018-09-27 19:08:06 EA5DOM 1536km 137485.013Hz 110mHz -38.3dBOp 94% 18.= 8dB > > Last night I tried without PA. Using just a mosfet driver this time gett= ing > > about 1W output. The GPS generates the 10x frequency and the OOK is contr= olled > > by enabling/disabling the divider by 10. Got a couple of decodes at DF6NM > > 2018-09-29 02:17:39 EA5DOM 1500km 137485.007Hz 5mHz -46.4dBOp 85% 15.= 4dB > 2018-09-29 00:37:50 EA5DOM 1500km 137484.986Hz 112mHz -43.2dBOp 100% 19.= 6dB > > So, 5 and 112mHz, for the same signal. I'm thinking that the problem is c= aused > > by glitches when the signal goes off. A synchronous off would be needed t= o > > cut signal at zero crossing ? > > Reports to other stations, like SM2DJK, show just 2 to 3mHz > > > Any ideas ? > > > PS: Stefan. Your Op32 correlaton detector is not working actually > > > 73 de Luis > > EA5DOM > > > --000000000000e6296f0576fe8c7a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If you stop and start a divider, the ph= ase jumps about randomly.=C2=A0 Each time you start the divider, its output= signal starts up in a differnet phase to what it would have been if left r= unning

To achieve phas= e coherent, you must keep the divider running and gate the OUTPUT separatel= y

This issue is a prob= lem with beacons in general that employ FSK keying for their CW ident.=C2= =A0 =C2=A0If they adopted on-off keying, then long term integration cold ta= ke place though the keying cycle.=C2=A0 But unfortunately, IARU (or whateve= r organisation that tries to mandate these things), appear to require FSK k= eying.=C2=A0 SO most beacon keepers comply.=C2=A0 =C2=A0(I don't, the B= ell Hill microwave beacons, GB3SCx all use on-off keying)

On Sat, = 29 Sep 2018 at 09:10, VIGILANT Luis Fern=C3=A1ndez <luis@vigilant.es> wrote:
Hi LF

I'm puzzled with the readings of bandwidth at the Op32 correlation= detection grabbers

As source I'm using a GPS generated signal, which is coherent in p= hase and works for EbNaut
So I tested this at 20x frequency to drive an small D class PA and mod= ulated in Opera32
The OOK was achieved by enabling/disabling a divider by 10 just after = GPS

Sourprisingly, my decodes at DF6NM and DL0AO varied in width, but alwa= ys showing width of a non coherent signal
2018-09-24 16:55:09 EA5DOM  1500km 1374=
85.051Hz  71mHz -99.9dBOp  78% 17.6dB
2018-09-24 15:35:10 EA5DOM  1500km 137485.026Hz 114mHz -99.9dBOp 100% 17.3d=
B=C2=A0
2018-09-24 14:13:18 EA5DOM  1500km 1374=
85.039Hz 164mHz -37.2dBOp 100% 20.7dB
2018-09-27 19:08:06 EA5DOM  1536km 1374=
85.013Hz 110mHz -38.3dBOp  94% 18.8dB
Last night I tried without PA.  Using j=
ust a mosfet driver this time getting
about 1W output. The GPS generates the =
10x frequency and the OOK is controlled
by enabling/disabling the divider by 10=
. Got a couple of decodes at DF6NM
2018-09-29 02:17:39 EA5DOM  1500km 1374=
85.007Hz   5mHz -46.4dBOp  85% 15.4dB
2018-09-29 00:37:50 EA5DOM  1500km 137484.986Hz 112mHz -43.2dBOp 100% 19.6d=
B
So, 5 and 112mHz, for the same signal. =
I'm thinking that the problem is caused
by glitches when the signal goes off. A=
 synchronous off would be needed to
cut signal at zero crossing ?
Reports to other stations, like SM2DJK,=
 show just 2 to 3mHz

Any ideas ?

PS: Stefan. Your Op32 correlaton detect=
or is not working actually

73 de Luis
EA5DOM
=C2=A0
--000000000000e6296f0576fe8c7a--