Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w88AbZbv031058 for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2018 12:37:36 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1fyaV4-0005JO-S3 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Sep 2018 11:29:58 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1fyaUy-0005JF-1a for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Sep 2018 11:29:52 +0100 Received: from resqmta-ch2-03v.sys.comcast.net ([2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:35]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91_59-0488984) (envelope-from ) id 1fyaUv-0003LW-AV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Sep 2018 11:29:50 +0100 Received: from resomta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.104]) by resqmta-ch2-03v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id yaSlfJkkpPUIwyaUqfzUqz; Sat, 08 Sep 2018 10:29:44 +0000 X-DKIM-Result: Domain=comcast.net Result=Signature OK DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20161114; t=1536402584; bh=Ijx4IkwdKdS1sPWoYoe6qkVKEkPBUE5t+n6dWvZhmm8=; h=Received:Received:From:Subject:To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Date: Message-ID; b=o1gidh0bZU4zz11f9V8d2DiR9A8CR9gcBi1Ty4jZbNO+THPVM+TW36ivuOV4woyG+ OrTJ3D09jVRYINDwMIO2yH4/rMWl7ECtghLWTP1LaELJf/TYlbeBZrSlliKT37dMCe frDNaj04vrBWnQqzlwQqmuSvagEoDflpfNo3imXC1TkOEzHidcwgZkqeiljdWREb1v Nqhc9FJswsaF610QPUxjZNw2CYkJm4FUFAEaOrwS0A7NKn2EB6TS51Q2+mcuUwmsNA 6tBXK4ok5jDPVLa3wyIlRYkik5qujq15Iele3RhGolOddhihcN8hwNXy0+sMEJyeSV IJZK1xGR+wOHg== Received: from Optiplex980-PC ([73.4.253.141]) by resomta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id yaUofJkqiWebqyaUpfZupw; Sat, 08 Sep 2018 10:29:44 +0000 From: "jrusgrove@comcast.net" To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <165b516335a-1ebf-5174@webjas-vad091.srv.aolmail.net> Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2018 06:29:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1UQaCcOJTL.4J2b3qBPXRi@optiplex980-pc> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: OEClassic/2.9 (Win7.7601; P; 2018-07-03) X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfNh42KtGSXZdlc9ayw8Z6k9V1V1IGKi4EhWzGyzCmwRGI4Yde7Z6wMQbb+XEgjmp1hAI0oPZvfaolXRYxG8wHyJl81Cha2+wUh6j5iMs754xiVf67CnB Mvme4IwisyXN3k8Eg2Ym5JQ7QpbH7vYKefzYOPDzCPIAv3Vr7oaI0l7vo2bZ5EAqzB+Vezv+y3DP3Q== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stan If you're planning on using this mast as the radiating element on MF and especially LF with any appreciable power, egg insulators will be problematic. The relatively small physical separation with normal moisture and 'contaminents' will carbon track. I've had good luck using black delrin rod ~ 6 - 10 inches in length with holes drilled in each end. Countersink the holes to remove the sharp edges. [...] Content analysis details: (-0.7 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:35 listed in] [list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (jrusgrove[at]comcast.net) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 974e9bcd09e4f3403f97af2f38f8fb73 Subject: Re: LF: Porcelain insulators on rope guys for a vertical antenna Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="7iLfCuThXXEfJLLV9EQElmq=_AnQRaGeBo" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false This is a multi-part message in MIME format --7iLfCuThXXEfJLLV9EQElmq=_AnQRaGeBo Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Stan If=20 you're planning on using this mast as the radiating element on MF and = especially LF with any appreciable power, egg insulators will be probl= ematic. The relatively small physical separation with normal moisture = and 'contaminents' will carbon track. I've=20 had good luck using black delrin rod ~ 6 - 10 inches in length with ho= les=20 drilled in each end. Countersink the holes to remove the sharp edges. = =20 Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 ----- Original Message ----- From: Stan, W1LE Reply-To: To: Sent: 9/7/2018 3:45:48 PM Subject: Re: LF: Porcelain insulators on rope guys for a vertical ante= nna Hello Mike, Thanks for your comments. I have plenty of the egg insulators in stock. I will be sure to have 1= in each=20 guy . Once I get the final version of the vertical up in the air, I ho= pe to=20 keep it there for a couple of decades. And I will plan to instrument the final install for impedance changes = with the=20 weather, and hi-pot. All of the original=20 3/16" twisted nylon guys in the set, will be replaced with the double = braid. Here on Cape Cod we have the typical New England weather, plenty of ra= in, snow, ice, and wind. Stan, W1LE On 9/7/2018 1:30 PM, wa3tts@verizon.net wrote: Stan: For what it is worth, I found a piece of 3/16"=20 nylon covered polyester line removed from my HF vertical after 15 year= s of=20 outdoor exposure. The line was dry and some dried mold present on the = nylon=20 jacket. My electronic megger indicated over 20 Giga-ohms at 2500VDC test volt= age, even=20 at 1 inch separation along the line. Then I wetted the line with tap w= ater.=20 Resistance fell to 1/2 megaohm at 500VDC test voltage over a 6 inch sp= an of the=20 line. Perhaps if you live in the Arizona desert with low humidity most of th= e year,=20 it may not matter much. Would you rather radiate energy, or use it to = dry out=20 your guy lines? For the few extra $, I would stick with the guy line=20= insulators. 73, Mike wa3tts -----Original Message----- From: Stan, W1LE To: rsgb_lf_group Sent: Fri, Sep 7, 2018 12:40 pm Subject: LF: Porcelain insulators on rope guys for a vertical antenna Hello The Net: For my vertical antenna guyed in three direction at 4 levels, I am=20 planning to use 3/16", polyester, braided, of double braid constructio= n.=20 Original guys were of the military surplus type, part of a GRA-4 anten= na=20 system and part number MX-383A/GRA-4, that uses, 1 each, insulator in = line. For replacement guys, can I remove the insulator and only use the=20 braided line ? With wet guys (after rainstorm) I measure the (~ DC) resistance from t= he=20 vertical to ground as greater than 6 megohms, my meters capability. What are your thoughts ? I can add the insulators, but I would also need to add crimped=20 connectors or other rope clamps, that would reduce the ultimate=20 reliability of the guy. The vertical is constructed of MS-44 aluminum masting sections stacked= =20 up to 50', (maybe 55 or 60'+ later). Final plan is to add a capacitive= =20 top hat with 8 each, 20' radials and a center loading coil for use on=20= 2200M and 630M. Probably a additional switchable base loading coil for= =20 2200M tuning (TBD). Stan, W1LE Cape Cod FN41sr ZZZZz --7iLfCuThXXEfJLLV9EQElmq=_AnQRaGeBo Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Stan
 
If you're planning on using this mast as the radiating element on= MF and especially LF with any appreciable power, egg insulators will = be problematic. The relatively small physical separation wit= h normal moisture and 'contaminents' will carbon track. I've= had good luck using black delrin rod ~ 6 - 10 inches in length w= ith holes drilled in each end. Countersink the holes to remove the sha= rp edges.   
 
Jay W1VD  WD2XNS  WE2XGR/2
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Stan, W1LE <stanw1le@verizon.net>
Sent: 9/7/2018 3:45:48 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Porcelain insulators on rope guys for a v= ertical antenna

Hello Mike,

Thanks for your comments.

I have plenty of the egg insulators in stock. I will be sure to hav= e 1 in each guy . Once I get the final version of the vertical up in t= he air, I hope to keep it there for a couple of decades.

And I will plan to instrument the final install for impedance chang= es with the weather, and hi-pot.

All of the original 3/16" twisted nylon guys in the set, will be re= placed with the double braid.

Here on Cape Cod we have the typical New England weather, plenty of= rain, snow, ice, and wind.

Stan, W1LE



On 9/7/2018 1:30 PM, wa3tts@verizon.net<= /A> wrote:
Stan: For what it is worth, I found a piece of 3/16" n= ylon covered polyester line removed from my HF vertical after 15 years= of outdoor exposure. The line was dry and some dried mold present on = the nylon jacket.

My electronic  megger indicated over 20 Giga-ohms= at 2500VDC test voltage, even at 1 inch separation along the line. Th= en I wetted the line with tap water. Resistance fell to 1/2 megaohm at= 500VDC test voltage over a 6 inch span of the line.

Perhaps if you live in the Arizona desert with low hum= idity most of the year, it may not matter much. Would you rather radia= te energy, or use it to dry out your guy lines?  For the few extr= a $, I would stick with the guy line insulators.

73, Mike wa3tts


-----Original Message-----<= BR>From: Stan, W1LE <stanw1le@verizon.net>
To: rsgb_lf_gr= oup <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Sent: Fri, Sep= 7, 2018 12:40 pm
Subject: LF: Porcelain insulators on rope guys fo= r a vertical antenna

Hello The Net:

For my vertica= l antenna guyed in three direction at 4 levels, I am
planning to u= se 3/16", polyester, braided, of double braid construction.
Origin= al guys were of the military surplus type, part of a GRA-4 antenna system and part number MX-383A/GRA-4, that uses, 1 each, insulator in= line.

For replacement guys, can I remove the insulator and onl= y use the
braided line ?

With wet guys (after rainstorm) I = measure the (~ DC) resistance from the
vertical to ground as great= er than 6 megohms, my meters capability.

What are your thoughts= ?

I can add the insulators, but I would also need to add crimp= ed
connectors or other rope clamps, that would reduce the ultimate=
reliability of the guy.

The vertical is constructed of MS-= 44 aluminum masting sections stacked
up to 50', (maybe 55 or 60'+ = later). Final plan is to add a capacitive
top hat with 8 each, 20'= radials and a center loading coil for use on
2200M and 630M. Prob= ably a additional switchable base loading coil for
2200M tuning (T= BD).

Stan, W1LE    Cape Cod   FN41sr




ZZZZz







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