Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w8CFh9ur015362 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 17:43:12 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1g07Cm-00055f-9A for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 16:37:24 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1g07Ch-00055W-Cz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 16:37:19 +0100 Received: from omr-a005e.mx.aol.com ([204.29.186.50]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.91_59-0488984) (envelope-from ) id 1g07Ce-0007R3-92 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 16:37:18 +0100 Received: from mtaomg-mce01.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mce01.mx.aol.com [172.29.27.207]) by omr-a005e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id CFDFA38000B1 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 11:37:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-ace01a.mail.aol.com (core-ace01.mail.aol.com [172.27.23.1]) by mtaomg-mce01.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 8B6B638000081 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 11:37:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 80.146.228.86 by webjasstg-vab26.srv.aolmail.net (10.96.25.93) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 12 Sep 2018 11:37:12 -0400 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 11:37:13 -0400 From: Markus Vester To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-Id: <165ce6de202-1ebc-9cd@webjasstg-vab26.srv.aolmail.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: JAS STD X-Originating-IP: [80.146.228.86] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1536766633; bh=rjFCiZaEWg6BHqE3Sr7L86ORYbVL/Z2vHFkzBtnkOz4=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=kjX6nP0I9BRedgKW/5HuyD9TB5GQ3DSqj56qyKzjUE0FKZRb3an67FfpPdHJxzv2z Ut28GTE+JnZ7smmeywNS32sfvmceOZ0GGDCRRNv9Qu3aaYIsbysMNoqHqeKtapMZNm FthCjkLkMTZ1f9wMBoWw3AQbZ4uEURzxTy8DQmk4= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d1bcf5b9932a91e49 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Hi Joe, the bottom of the ionosphere is higher at night, so the geometrical length of each hop increases. In that sense the phase variation is indeed a Doppler shift, produced by a receding / approaching mirror. [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [204.29.186.50 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (markusvester[at]aol.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP URI: URI host has a public dotted-decimal IPv4 address 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: fb42d311bf65eb51bbb8124890b4f977 Subject: Re: LF: VO1NA 8270.0075 Hz, 82 Hz phase Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3412_120864065.1536766632449" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false ------=_Part_3412_120864065.1536766632449 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Joe, the bottom of the ionosphere is higher at night, so the geometrical length = of each hop increases. In that sense the phase variation is indeed a Dopple= r shift, produced by a receding / approaching mirror. Normally at VLF this would probably be formulated in terms of phase velocit= y for waveguide modes instead of rays and hops, but the underlying physics = is the same. Phase observations on MSK signals and fringing patterns on 19.= 8 kHz indicate that VLF waves are ~ 0.2% slower at night. What is strange though is that at ELF frequencies the change seems to be th= e other way round, and much stronger. From simultaneous observations of ZEV= S carrier phase in Amberg and Moonah, we surprisingly found that the phase = velocity at 82 Hz appears to be 15% (!) faster at night. Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----=20 Von: jcraig An: rsgb_lf_group Verschickt: Mi, 12. Sept 2018 16:06 Betreff: Re: LF: VO1NA 8270.0075 Hz Hello Markus and Paul, group, That's a much better explaination than Doppler shift. What would cause a 180 degree phase shift? Is there an XOR gate in the sky. A few more dB will depend on getting some plastic machined. Hopefully this will be before the end of winter. The TX is off since ~10ut due to lightning in the forecast. 73 Joe VO1NA On Tue, 11 Sep 2018, Markus Vester wrote: > That continuous trace on Paul's spectrogram is impressive - great work! > > Attempting to extract a long spectrum from Paul's data creates a split pe= ak at +-12 uHz from the center, suggesting a repeating near 180=C2=B0 phase= difference between day and night. > > A close look on our Bavarian 31 uHz spectrograms seems to bring up some f= aint traces on the right frequency, but to be more sure we still need a few= dB less noise, or more ERP. > > Best 73, > Markus (DF6NM) > > > -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung----- > Von: jcraig > An: rsgb_lf_group > Verschickt: Mo, 10. Sept 2018 21:33 > Betreff: Re: LF: VO1NA 8270.0075 Hz > > > I've not been mucking with the tx or tuning so perhaps Mother Nature has > provided an ERP improvement -- the wx has been quite dry recently. > > Thank-you for the report and the spectrogram service. It keeps me > entertained, especially since it seems impossible to see my own > sigs with a remote setup at distances greater than about 10 km. > > Been playing with vt tools and a cheap sound card. > > 73 > Joe VO1NA > > On Sun, 9 Sep 2018, Paul Nicholson wrote: > > VO1NA from Newfoundland with 10uW must hold the record for > the longest running VLF transmission! > > Coming in well the last couple of days - > > http://78.46.38.217/fbins3.html#p=3D1536487200&b=3D280&s=3Dsp&m=3Dcardioi= d&w=3Dr&h=3D62&z1=3D0.34&z2=3D0.64&c=3D1 > > An ERP improvement, or good propagation? > > -- > Paul Nicholson > -- ------=_Part_3412_120864065.1536766632449 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Joe,

the bottom of the ionosphere is= higher at night, so the geometrical length of each hop increases. In that = sense the phase variation is indeed a Doppler shift, produced by a rec= eding / approaching mirror.

Normally at VLF this would probably = ;be formulated in terms of phase velocity for waveguide modes instead = of rays and hops, but the underlying physics is the same. Phase observ= ations on MSK signals and fringing patterns on 19.8 kHz indicate = that VLF waves are ~ 0.2% slower at night.

What = is strange though is that at ELF frequencies the change seems to = be the other way round, and much stronger. From simultaneous observati= ons of ZEVS carrier phase in Amberg and Moonah, we surprisingly found = that the phase velocity at 82 Hz appears to be 15% (!) faster at = night.

Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)

-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mit= teilung-----
Von: jcraig <jcraig@mun.ca>
An: rsgb_lf_group <= ;rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Verschickt: Mi, 12. Sept 2018 16:06Betreff: Re: LF: VO1NA 8270.0075 Hz

Hello Markus and Paul, gr= oup,

That's a much better explaination than Doppler shift. What woul= d cause a
180 degree phase shift? Is there an XOR gate in the sky.
A few more dB will depend on getting some plastic machined. Hopefullythis will be before the end of winter.

The TX is off since ~10ut du= e to lightning in the forecast.

73
Joe VO1NA

On Tue, 11 Se= p 2018, Markus Vester wrote:

> That continuous trace on Paul's sp= ectrogram is impressive - great work!
>
> Attempting to extract= a long spectrum from Paul's data creates a split peak at +-12 uHz from the= center, suggesting a repeating near 180=C2=B0 phase difference between day= and night.
>
> A close look on our Bavarian 31 uHz spectrogram= s seems to bring up some faint traces on the right frequency, but to be mor= e sure we still need a few dB less noise, or more ERP.
>
> Best= 73,
> Markus (DF6NM)
>
>
> -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche= Mitteilung-----
> Von: jcraig <jcraig@mun.ca>
> An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@b= lacksheep.org>
> Verschickt: Mo, 10. Sept 2018 21:33
> B= etreff: Re: LF: VO1NA 8270.0075 Hz
>
>
> I've not been mu= cking with the tx or tuning so perhaps Mother Nature has
> provided a= n ERP improvement -- the wx has been quite dry recently.
>
> Th= ank-you for the report and the spectrogram service. It keeps me
> ent= ertained, especially since it seems impossible to see my own
> sigs w= ith a remote setup at distances greater than about 10 km.
>
> B= een playing with vt tools and a cheap sound card.
>
> 73
>= ; Joe VO1NA
>
> On Sun, 9 Sep 2018, Paul Nicholson wrote:
&g= t;
> VO1NA from Newfoundland with 10uW must hold the record for
&g= t; the longest running VLF transmission!
>
> Coming in well the= last couple of days -
>
> http://78.= 46.38.217/fbins3.html#p=3D1536487200&b=3D280&s=3Dsp&m=3Dcardioi= d&w=3Dr&h=3D62&z1=3D0.34&z2=3D0.64&c=3D1
>> An ERP improvement, or good propagation?
>
> --
> P= aul Nicholson
> --
------=_Part_3412_120864065.1536766632449--