Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w83It4Ej020746 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2018 20:55:07 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1fwtwl-0002VA-GU for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Sep 2018 19:51:35 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1fwtwl-0002V1-3b for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Sep 2018 19:51:35 +0100 Received: from omr-a017e.mx.aol.com ([204.29.186.68]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.91_59-0488984) (envelope-from ) id 1fwtwh-0005dr-Ef for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Sep 2018 19:51:34 +0100 Received: from mtaomg-aab02.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-aab02.mx.aol.com [172.26.126.208]) by omr-a017e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 1C1CD38000B0 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2018 14:51:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-acx10e.mail.aol.com (core-acx10.mail.aol.com [172.27.155.135]) by mtaomg-aab02.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 3368C38000081 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2018 14:51:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 188.194.221.221 by webjasstg-vaa47.srv.aolmail.net (10.96.25.50) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 03 Sep 2018 14:51:28 -0400 Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 14:51:29 -0400 From: Markus Vester To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-Id: <165a0c68339-1ebd-dfc@webjasstg-vaa47.srv.aolmail.net> In-Reply-To: <19728641535998102@iva1-77b79d681cd9.qloud-c.yandex.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: JAS STD X-Originating-IP: [188.194.221.221] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1536000689; bh=J7Smm76mmUDvmYBnVZiOPfX84eHM5GF/4ZreUeOZsg0=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=qgTrVyAQPS9V8fkUOARryqCRYErfZCaAMfEBpk12mDtag56/ab91kdLU/M1Q6wFDI a8SZRjPlcd/t67a5na3SrZW35ocmUX9HA45xU5RLlFmaqqTD8adm05uj5wRPv69grM BUiZrLfKKbG46i9p2JU0uD8slssO3jAHKUBeyaAY= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1a7ed05b8d82b1781e X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Thank you for this interesting information. I guess the TDOA technique may be hampered by the narrow bandwidth and periodic structure of the signal waveform (c / 100 Hz ~ 3000 km). Nagoya is "only" about 950 km east of Mokpo so the result might still be ambiguous. [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [204.29.186.68 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (markusvester[at]aol.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 8ac9f0a1bced50a7ada6578ede3fb6ae Subject: Re: LF: Korea 24.1 kHz and 25.0 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4639_1007711699.1536000688953" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false ------=_Part_4639_1007711699.1536000688953 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you for this interesting information.=20 I guess the TDOA technique may be hampered by the narrow bandwidth and peri= odic structure of the signal waveform (c / 100 Hz ~ 3000 km). Nagoya is "on= ly" about 950 km east of Mokpo so the result might still be ambiguous. >From here, I can only tell the coarse direction "northeast" which would fit= to both sites. Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) =20 -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----=20 Von: Roman An: rsgb_lf_group Verschickt: Mo, 3. Sept 2018 20:10 Betreff: Re: LF: Korea 24.1 kHz and 25.0 kHz Hello Markus! TNX for long SWLing for us! Look, Vadim aka KARAPUZ - UA6SWL(this is nick name at pskreporter, not real= call, he is unlis and SWL) make a some direction-finding laboratory work b= y KIWI-SDR reseivers. He use 5 receivers and find QTH around Nagoya, Japan. Russian forum from here: http://www.radioscanner.ru/forum/topic24687-14.html#msg1389739 Vadim's answer to us: http://www.radioscanner.ru/forum/topic24687-14.html#msg1390104 Coordinates 34.00N 137.00E - ~100 km's far from Nagoya. 73! Roman > I looked through some stored colour-DF grabber captures. It seems that th= e South Korean transmittter has been alternating between 24.1 and 25.0 kHz = on a monthly basis. As far as I can see, the scheme was >=20 > Month in: ------2017------ | -------2018------- > 25.0 kHz: 7 8 9 | 1 2 3 7 9 > 24.1 kHz: 6 10 11 12| 4 5 6 8 >=20 > Best 73, > Markus (DF6NM) >=20 > -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung----- > Von: P. W. Schnoor > An: rsgb_lf_group > Verschickt: Mi, 8. Aug 2018 22:50 > Betreff: Re: LF: 24.0 kHz sig - NAA? >=20 > O.K. >=20 > Go to: > https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/VLF_Group/conversations/messages/2518= 9 >=20 > Read those ITU infos. >=20 > Push: "Show message history" >=20 > Read what Markus wrote there. >=20 > May be he describes exactly what R6LDD's image shows. >=20 > Peter, df3lp >=20 > On 08.08.2018 19:01, hvanesce@comcast.net wrote: >> In the mid 60's I wished that my receiver (BC-453/4/5) would reach 24 kH= z. >> >> Still works and still wish; that much stayed the same :-) >> >> Jim AA5BW >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of John Rabson >> Sent: Wednesday, August 8, 2018 12:32 PM >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> Subject: Re: LF: 24.0 kHz sig - NAA? >> >> How times change. In the late 1960s I received NAA on a hot summer after= noon >> in the town of Harlow, about 30 km north-east of London. The antenna was= an >> L about 80 m in length and the receiver was an ex-Navy unit which covere= d >> from 15 to 750kHz (B29?). >> >> 73 John G3PAI F5VLF >> >>> On 8 Aug 2018, at 17:49, DK7FC wrote: >>> >>> Hello Genosse Roman, >>> >>> NAA should be centered exactly at 24 kHz, like DHO38 is at 23.4 kHz. It >> can have strong QSB and appears only a few hours per day. Here it appear= s >> arround 4 UTC these days. >>> My grabber and all webpages do not work in the moment due to a webserve= r >> problem which may be solved just next week... >>> These narrow traces are something else, NAA always looks like DHO, abou= t >> 200 Hz wide. >>> >>> 73, Stefan >>> >>> Am 08.08.2018 14:15, schrieb Roman: >>>> Hello Genossen VLFers! >>>> >>>> Pse, look R6LDD screen at russian forum. >>>> What's a station? NAA or not? >>>> >>>> http://136.su/index.php?action=3Ddlattach;topic=3D393.0;attach=3D18220= ;image >>>> >>>> The theme: >>>> >>>> http://136.su/index.php/topic,393.msg21804.html#msg21804 >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> --=20 73! Roman, RW3ADB ------=_Part_4639_1007711699.1536000688953 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you for this interesting information. =

I guess the TDOA technique may be hampered by the narrow bandw= idth and periodic structure of the signal waveform (c / 100 Hz&nb= sp;~ 3000 km). Nagoya is "only" about 950 km east of Mokpo so the resu= lt might still be ambiguous.

From here, I can only tell = the coarse direction "northeast" which would fit to both sites.

Best= 73,
Markus (DF6NM)

 

-----Ur= spr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: Roman <rw3adb@YAND= EX.ru>
An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= >
Verschickt: Mo, 3. Sept 2018 20:10
Betre= ff: Re: LF: Korea 24.1 kHz and 25.0 kHz

Hello Markus!

TNX for long SWLing for us!<= br abp=3D"309">Look, Vadim aka KARAPUZ - UA6SWL(this is nick name at pskrep= orter, not real call, he is unlis and SWL) make a some direction-finding la= boratory work by KIWI-SDR reseivers. He use 5 receivers and find QTH around= Nagoya, Japan.

Russian forum from here:

http://www.radios= canner.ru/forum/topic24687-14.html#msg1389739

Vadim's answer to us:

http://www.radioscanner.ru/forum/topic24687-14.html#msg139010= 4

Coordinates 34.00N 137.00E - ~100 km's= far from Nagoya.

73!
Roman
> I looked through some stored colour-DF g= rabber captures. It seems that the South Korean transmittter has been alter= nating between 24.1 and 25.0 kHz on a monthly basis. As far as I can see, t= he scheme was
>
> Month in: ------2017= ------ | -------2018-------
> 25.0 kHz:   7 8 9=              | = 1 2 3       7  9
> 24.= 1 kHz: 6       10 11 12|   &nb= sp;    4 5 6  8
>
>= ; Best 73,
> Markus (DF6NM)
>
> -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
> V= on: P. W. Schnoor <pws@df3lp= .de>
> An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>=
> Verschickt: Mi, 8. Aug 2018 22:50
> = Betreff: Re: LF: 24.0 kHz sig - NAA?
>
&g= t; O.K.
>
> Go to:
>= https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/gro= ups/VLF_Group/conversations/messages/25189
>
> Read those ITU infos.
>
>= ; Push: "Show message history"
>
> Rea= d what Markus wrote there.
>
> May be = he describes exactly what R6LDD's image shows.
>
> Peter, df3lp
>
> On 08.0= 8.2018 19:01, hvanesce@= comcast.net wrote:
>> In the mid 60's I wished tha= t my receiver (BC-453/4/5) would reach 24 kHz.
>>
>> Still works and still wish; that much stayed the same := -)
>>
>> Jim AA5BW
>>
>>
>>
&g= t;> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacks= heep.org
>> [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= ] On Behalf Of John Rabson
>> Sent: Wednesday, August = 8, 2018 12:32 PM
>> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>> Subject: Re: LF: 24.0 kHz sig - NAA?
>>>> How times change. In the late 1960s I received NAA on= a hot summer afternoon
>> in the town of Harlow, abou= t 30 km north-east of London. The antenna was an
>> L = about 80 m in length and the receiver was an ex-Navy unit which covered
>> from 15 to 750kHz (B29?).
>>
>> 73 John G3PAI F5VLF
>>
>>> On 8 Aug 2018, at 17:49, DK7FC <selberdenken@posteo.de> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello Genosse Roman,
>>>
>>> NAA should be centered = exactly at 24 kHz, like DHO38 is at 23.4 kHz. It
>> ca= n have strong QSB and appears only a few hours per day. Here it appears
>> arround 4 UTC these days.
>>> = My grabber and all webpages do not work in the moment due to a webserver>> problem which may be solved just next week...
>>> These narrow traces are something else, NAA always lo= oks like DHO, about
>> 200 Hz wide.
>= ;>>
>>> 73, Stefan
>>>= ;
>>> Am 08.08.2018 14:15, schrieb Roman:
>>>> Hello Genossen VLFers!
>>>&g= t;
>>>> Pse, look R6LDD screen at russian forum.=
>>>> What's a station? NAA or not?
>>>>
>>>> http://136.su/index.php?action=3Ddlattach;topic=3D393.= 0;attach=3D18220;image
>>>>
&= gt;>>> The theme:
>>>>
&= gt;>>> http://136.su/index.php/topic,393.m= sg21804.html#msg21804
>>>>
&g= t;>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
--
73!
Roman, RW3ADB

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