Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w6NHtVeM001336 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:55:32 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1fheqO-0002kJ-Hy for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 18:42:00 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1fheqK-0002kA-KM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 18:41:56 +0100 Received: from forward103j.mail.yandex.net ([2a02:6b8:0:801:2::106]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91_59-0488984) (envelope-from ) id 1fheqH-00061G-BX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 18:41:55 +0100 Received: from mxback2j.mail.yandex.net (mxback2j.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:0:1619::10b]) by forward103j.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id B006C34C6ABB for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 20:41:49 +0300 (MSK) Received: from localhost (localhost [::1]) by mxback2j.mail.yandex.net (nwsmtp/Yandex) with ESMTP id xf7ttaKgDm-fm64r4O5; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 20:41:49 +0300 X-DKIM-Result: Domain=yandex.ru Result=Signature OK DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1532367709; bh=H4PfHt9eOnwLBqX+F5Mjn0SoLXVE9uADlMnPzyj6Qys=; h=From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:Date:Message-Id; b=V1rATXQblBoMbvbxRZw4J+woykHoKuX9hoD4sE01r8xuHI3sAGvUcDnzHRMfsKDW5 HmNtmIg2bY5B+cY5QEDsoaEH4PgZ9nq5hfi4a6ThS+Ykb4SewzrywQCjJKblwaIyj6 vPyCR11VE76u9u0EJqJVooJNuCVmUFtUipnqaqog= Authentication-Results: mxback2j.mail.yandex.net; dkim=pass header.i=@yandex.ru Received: by iva8-60b043ae986f.qloud-c.yandex.net with HTTP; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 20:41:48 +0300 From: Roman To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <4B15F2D2-90AB-40F5-B1AD-671DD0BEB12A@gmail.com> References: <164c230a3b7-c97-798@webjasstg-vaa58.srv.aolmail.net> <4B15F2D2-90AB-40F5-B1AD-671DD0BEB12A@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Yamail [ http://yandex.ru ] 5.0 Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 20:41:48 +0300 Message-Id: <38999631532367708@iva8-60b043ae986f.qloud-c.yandex.net> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Hi John, LF! The radioamateur experiment in France several years ago with 3.3 khz PSK31 communication in caves. http://f6kcz.free.fr/Actualites/2011/Carrieres%20Fleury/Carrieres%20Fleury.htm [...] Content analysis details: (-0.7 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [2a02:6b8:0:801:2:0:0:106 listed in] [list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (rw3adb[at]yandex.ru) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 9d01e9df836df8dd3868645661e1c1f7 Subject: Re: LF: Transmitting with a small ferrite antenna Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Hi John, LF! The radioamateur experiment in France several years ago with 3.3 khz PSK31 communication in caves. http://f6kcz.free.fr/Actualites/2011/Carrieres%20Fleury/Carrieres%20Fleury.htm Profesional cave phone: http://bcra.org.uk/creg/heyphone/ Russian communication system FERRA from Omsk radio-factory: http://www.radioscanner.ru/forum/topic46535-3.html 73! Roman > In the cave radio field, we have tried a number of such configurations underground and also in out-of-service rail tunnels. > > Discussion of the results can be found in several issues of the Cave Radio & Electronics Group Journal. Go to http://bcra.org.uk/pub/cregj/covers.html and search for ferrite transmitting antennas. Back copies of the Journal are available for download – a subscription available for a modest fee. > > The electrical properties required of such an antenna depend on frequency and bandwidth. For cave radio speech systems, a common centre frequency is 88.5 kHz (87 kHz USB) with a bandwidth of about 3 kHz and a maximum transmitter output power of the order of 4 W. These systems normally work in the in the induction regime, the ERP is not significant and may be of the order of uW. > > Data systems have also been investigated on this and other low frequencies. In general these require significantly less bandwidth. > > For a theoretical analysis of such antennas see David Gibson’s doctoral thesis (Leeds 2003?). > > Some years ago, I was sent a ferrite-rod based antenna for analysis. It was intended for use with the Molefone. Unfortunately it arrived shortly before I emigrated and the device disappeared somewhere among my household effects (420 cardboard boxes to start with). It has recently come to light and I hope to examine it in detail later in the year. > > 73 John F5VLF G3PAI > >> On 22 Jul 2018, at 15:32, Markus Vester wrote: >> >> This morning I attempted to transmit from a small ferrite antenna. It consists of a number of 9 mm diameter ferrite rods, with 7 bundled in parallel. The bundles were stacked with overlap to ~ 35 cm total length, and n=47 turns of litz wire were wound around the middle. Total ferrite cross section is a=4.45 cm^2 and volume V=156 cm^3, weighing 0.77 kg (including the coil). The coil was resonated and matched by several 1 nF high-Q ceramic capacitors. >> >> Under small signal conditions (-17 dBm), the electric parameters at 137.5 kHz were >> L = 0.50 mH, R = 0.62 ohm, Q = 690. >> >> Applying about half a watt significantly increased inductance and losses, and the tuning became sharply hysteretic ("jumpy"). For fine tuning, a small rod was placed at a variable distance beside the antenna. >> Then I connected my PA and drove about 25 Watts into the antenna. Losses and inductance increased further: >> I = 1.3 A, U = 867 V (rms), L = 0.77 mH, R = 14.8 ohmn, Q = 45, >> with the Q-factor now so low that tuning jumps disappeared again. The central part under the coil became quite hot, so a tiny fan was added which held the steady-state temperature at ~55 °C. >> >> From the induced voltage we can calculate the flux density in the middle of the rod as >> B = U / n / a / omega = 48 mT (rms), >> decreasing approximately linearly toward the ends (similar to a small electric dipole). The average Bav=24 mT then results in a dipole moment of >> iA = V Bav / µ0 = 156 cm^3 * 24 mT / µ0 = 3.0 Am^2 >> which results in a radiated power >> EMRP = 62.34 kohm * iA^2 / lambda^4 = 25 nW. >> Thus the efficiency of this transmit antenna is only 1 ppb ! >> >> Anyway I attempted to detect the tiny signal on the DL0AO LF grabber, 48 km from here: >> https://lf.u01.de >> Transmitting on 137.780 kHz (6:29 to 8:22 UT) indeed produced a detectable trace in the QRSS-60 window (below the Slonim Loran line on 137781.25 Hz). Then I attempted to send a 4-character EbNaut transmission on 137.510 KHz, which was successfully decoded with some margin. >> >> Now if that's not QRP... anyway fascinating, considering that the small ferrite antenna might be carried in a handbag, buried in the ground or taken to a cave. >> >> Best 73, >> Markus (DF6NM) >> >> -- 73! Roman, RW3ADB