Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w6OJGpOf007556 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 21:16:54 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1fi2Yf-0004z2-3W for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 20:01:17 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1fi2XM-0004yb-I5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 19:59:56 +0100 Received: from mx-out.tlen.pl ([193.222.135.148]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91_59-0488984) (envelope-from ) id 1fi2XK-0008D9-7a for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 19:59:55 +0100 Received: (wp-smtpd smtp.tlen.pl 8065 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2018 20:59:50 +0200 Received: from 89-71-156-80.dynamic.chello.pl (HELO LAPTOPCAAOTGEB) (bxi@go2.pl@[89.71.156.80]) (envelope-sender ) by smtp.tlen.pl (WP-SMTPD) with ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 encrypted SMTP for ; 24 Jul 2018 20:59:50 +0200 From: "Marcin" To: References: <5B54CCCB.6060903@posteo.de> <015a01d422bb$636e0390$2a4a0ab0$@go2.pl> <5B564621.2080104@posteo.de> In-Reply-To: <5B564621.2080104@posteo.de> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 20:59:37 +0200 Message-ID: <006401d42380$7fd63dc0$7f82b940$@go2.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQGK+X/mQMWyuRdjsqX4eNmU0jy1AgH6HXhZAa9Mq2sCnSAAF6T+1DJA Content-Language: pl X-WP-MailID: c53b151eec04f1a561c398c804546131 X-WP-AV: skaner antywirusowy Poczty o2 X-WP-SPAM: NO 0000003 [IQBG] X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Hello Stefan! The signal-to-noise ratio of the movie is very good. The experiment is interesting and inspired me. In January we tried to transmit on 8.27 kHz from a horizontal loop antenna. Team SP5WPK, SQ5BPF and SQ2BXI stretch the 500m wire. Ground was very good, by the river. The effect was not good. Information about the experiment in Polish: [...] Content analysis details: (0.3 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [193.222.135.148 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID BODY: Test for Invalidly Named or Formatted Colors in HTML 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.3 PLING_QUERY Subject has exclamation mark and question mark X-Scan-Signature: 396a95bbad9af60b2ee566edcd35b39e Subject: RE: LF: RE: Earth antenna transmissions on a guide rail?!?? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0065_01D42391.43617EC0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, PLING_QUERY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01D42391.43617EC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Stefan! =20 The signal-to-noise ratio of the movie is very good. The experiment is = interesting and inspired me. =20 In January we tried to transmit on 8.27 kHz from a horizontal loop = antenna. Team SP5WPK, SQ5BPF and SQ2BXI stretch the 500m wire. Ground = was very good, by the river. The effect was not good. Information about = the experiment in Polish: https://klubnl.pl/wpr/en/index.php/2018/02/10/nadawczy-eksperyment-z-duza= -pozioma-antena-petlowa-na-827khz/ 73! Marcin SQ2BXI =20 From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = On Behalf Of DK7FC Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 11:18 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: Earth antenna transmissions on a guide rail?!?? =20 Hello Marcin,=20 Oh, from LA3EQ, we know that man, at least from the LF/MF WSPR database. = If i remember correctly he has been here ion the list some years ago. Listening from an antenna which is so close to the road? Should sound = funny. But i've been a bit disappointed, he just connected the coax between two = very close disconnected parts of the guard rail. First i thought he = installed an isolated (!) wire of 8 km length. These two segemnts should = form a very small ground loop only. Of course it will generate some = signal voltage. The Alphas were visible too. But what about ZEVS and the = Schumann's, if he's talking about 10 Hz? Meanwhile i thought a bit more about the preparations. I think i'm going = to use that 0.4 mm diameter enameled cu wire that i have laying arround = here, about 2000m is available from the unwound part of the 2.97 kHz = coil. For the first test on the 450m distant guide rails this should = work reasonably. The DC resistance will be about 65 Ohm which could be a = significant part of the overall loss, hopefully :-) But then i'll have = an impression of the earth electrodes resistance. So i need to prepare a GPS locked signal generator and PA and a suitable = output transformer providing something between 50...350V at 8.27 kHz... 73, Stefan Am 23.07.2018 21:28, schrieb Marcin:=20 Hello Stefan A very interesting idea for an experiment. Looking at the video below should get good results. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DsWsdaSmWg7E 73! Marcin SQ2BXI =20 From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = = = On Behalf Of DK7FC Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 8:28 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 Subject: VLF: Earth antenna transmissions on a guide rail?!?? =20 Hi all,=20 During the weekend i am in the Pf=C3=A4lzer Wald again which is such a = nice place to be! I already installed a fixed E field antenna for = VLF/ULF reception in JN39XI06 = :-) Now i have the idea to use a guide rail (attachment!) as an electrode = for a earth electrode antenna! There is a perfect road which is not much = frequented and where no way is crossing so i could temporary install a = long wire on the ground between two of these guide rails. I would assume = they provide a good grounding. They are located on a relatively high = hill/mountain with stony ground. The mountain is very steep there and in = some distance, 200m deeper, there is a brook.. With some luck the ground losses can be near 200 Ohm? Maybe rather 300 = Ohm. I'm going to prepare things and plan to transmit for some time next = weekend. If the ground loop actually acts like a loop, the bearing = should be 135 deg, so it will be in a 45 deg angle towards my QTH where = my grabber is listening in 55 km distance. That's quite a good distance = for testing! I'd like to try LF and VLF, maybe ULF it all works well. A BTW the wire length will be 860 m! However there are two guide rails = in a shorther distance, about 450 m. I will try the shorter length = first, to get an impression of the loss resistance and to see if = something is visible at all :-) 73, Stefan ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01D42391.43617EC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello = Stefan!

 

The signal-to-noise ratio = of the movie is very good. The experiment is = interesting and inspired me.

 

In January we tried to = transmit on 8.27 kHz from a horizontal loop antenna. Team SP5WPK, SQ5BPF = and SQ2BXI stretch the 500m wire. Ground was = very good, by the river. The effect was not good. Information about the = experiment in Polish:<= /p>

https://klubnl.pl/wpr/en/inde= x.php/2018/02/10/nadawczy-eksperyment-z-duza-pozioma-antena-petlowa-na-82= 7khz/

73! Marcin = SQ2BXI

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> On Behalf Of = DK7FC
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 11:18 PM
To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: RE: Earth = antenna transmissions on a guide = rail?!??

 

Hello = Marcin,

Oh, from LA3EQ, we know that man, at least from the = LF/MF WSPR database. If i remember correctly he has been here ion the = list some years ago.

Listening from an antenna which is so close = to the road? Should sound funny.
But i've been a bit disappointed, he = just connected the coax between two very close disconnected parts of the = guard rail. First i thought he installed an isolated (!) wire of 8 km = length. These two segemnts should form a very small ground loop only. Of = course it will generate some signal voltage. The Alphas were visible = too. But what about ZEVS and the Schumann's, if he's talking about 10 = Hz?

Meanwhile i thought a bit more about the preparations. I = think i'm going to use that 0.4 mm diameter enameled cu wire that i have = laying arround here, about 2000m is available from the unwound part of = the 2.97 kHz coil. For the first test on the 450m distant guide rails = this should work reasonably. The DC resistance will be about 65 Ohm = which could be a significant part of the overall loss, hopefully :-) But = then i'll have an impression of the earth electrodes resistance.
So i = need to prepare a GPS locked signal generator and PA and a suitable = output transformer providing something between 50...350V at 8.27 = kHz...

73, Stefan


Am 23.07.2018 21:28, schrieb Marcin: =

Hello Stefan
A very interesting = idea for an experiment.
Looking at the video below should get good = results.

https://www.youtub= e.com/watch?v=3DsWsdaSmWg7E

73! = Marcin SQ2BXI

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@bl= acksheep.org <owner-rsgb_lf_grou= p@blacksheep.org> On Behalf Of DK7FC
Sent: = Sunday, July 22, 2018 8:28 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=
Subject: VLF: Earth antenna transmissions on a guide = rail?!??

 

Hi all, =

During the weekend i am in the Pf=C3=A4lzer Wald again which is = such a nice place to be! I already installed a fixed E field antenna for = VLF/ULF reception in JN39XI06 = :-)

Now i have the idea to use a guide rail (attachment!) as = an electrode for a earth electrode antenna! There is a perfect road = which is not much frequented and where no way is crossing so i could = temporary install a long wire on the ground between two of these guide = rails. I would assume they provide a good grounding. They are located on = a relatively high hill/mountain with stony ground. The mountain is very = steep there and in some distance, 200m deeper, there is a = brook..

With some luck the ground losses can be near 200 Ohm? = Maybe rather 300 Ohm. I'm going to prepare things and plan to transmit = for some time next weekend. If the ground loop actually acts like a = loop, the bearing should be 135 deg, so it will be in a 45 deg angle = towards my QTH where my grabber is listening in 55 km distance. That's = quite a good distance for testing! I'd like to try LF and VLF, maybe ULF = it all works well.

A BTW the wire length will be 860 m! However = there are two guide rails in a shorther distance, about 450 m. I will = try the shorter length first, to get an impression of the loss = resistance and to see if something is visible at all :-)

73, = Stefan

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