Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w5ALMSVY004194 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2018 23:22:31 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1fS7jQ-0004Xu-VE for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Jun 2018 22:18:36 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1fS7jP-0004Xl-IQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Jun 2018 22:18:35 +0100 Received: from rgout0805.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk ([65.20.0.152]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.91_59-0488984) (envelope-from ) id 1fS7jN-0002mj-7Z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Jun 2018 22:18:34 +0100 X-OWM-Source-IP: 81.129.153.141 (GB) X-OWM-Env-Sender: alan.melia@btinternet.com X-RazorGate-Vade-Classification: clean X-RazorGate-Vade-Verdict: clean 0 X-VadeSecure-score: verdict=clean score=0/300, class=clean X-SNCR-VADESECURE: CLEAN X-RazorGate-Vade-Verdict: clean 0 X-RazorGate-Vade-Classification: clean X-RazorGate-Vade: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedthedrkeefgdduieduucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuueftkffvkffujffvgffngfevqffopdfqfgfvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepkffhvfhfufffgggtrfgioffqsegrtdejpedutdehnecuhfhrohhmpedftehlrghnucfovghlihgrfdcuoegrlhgrnhdrmhgvlhhirgessghtihhnthgvrhhnvghtrdgtohhmqeenucffohhmrghinhepqhhriidrtghomhenucfkphepkedurdduvdelrdduheefrddugedunecurfgrrhgrmhephhgvlhhopehgnhgrthdpihhnvghtpeekuddruddvledrudehfedrudeguddpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpeeorghlrghnrdhmvghlihgrsegsthhinhhtvghrnhgvthdrtghomheqpdhrtghpthhtohepoehrshhgsggplhhfpghgrhhouhhpsegslhgrtghkshhhvggvphdrohhrgheqnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd Received: from gnat (81.129.153.141) by rgout08.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (9.0.019.26-1) (authenticated as alan.melia@btinternet.com) id 5AF3282C02D191EA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Jun 2018 22:18:32 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=btcpcloud; t=1528665513; bh=a7yhpIKyXdrL+jl6STQbW0md4scRhbG3POiE72aQByg=; h=Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:X-Mailer; b=fj8KLGi3vXRjqPMGmB1JpqrZwcu/CYzvZnt9XBNoBk5LY0F9u9pw84aUfGmseXTqnCF2uR0+AG84s2jFQtgaO1Qnc7hGyxveSQabft5zzdYtSMpLsbeFEFCnyIJV8qo4yd/UuJQpjGxFMR8imRXRD9fpjFdsW4+Vc4Wu0GB+wck= Message-ID: <2F6DB2505BD848209C75193D9A3AA3E2@gnat> From: "Alan Melia" To: References: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2018 22:18:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Jim sadly the answer is not really a ''low noise antenna'' (try a dummy load if you are determined :-)) ) I am afrain the first thing to do is find the source of the noise and try to kill it. The first thing to do is check your own premises by sitch the supply master switch off. Listen on battery powered rig and note the reduction. At the levels you are quoting I am sure some of this is self generated. I got my mean noise levells downto a couple of microvolts from a 10m vertical alongside the house with 130m of top-load. [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [65.20.0.152 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: b6696563999afa34e36d15007cae73e3 Subject: LF: Re: running a quick test beacon on 472.9. G7NKS. testing my revised Hafler PA set up. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0055_01D40108.F595AC20" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.4 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01D40108.F595AC20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim sadly the answer is not really a ''low noise antenna'' (try a dummy = load if you are determined :-)) ) I am afrain the first thing to do is find the source of the noise and = try to kill it. The first thing to do is check your own premises by = sitch the supply master switch off. Listen on battery powered rig and = note the reduction. At the levels you are quoting I am sure some of this = is self generated. I got my mean noise levells downto a couple of = microvolts from a 10m vertical alongside the house with 130m of = top-load. A waterfall plot is quite useful for diagnosing possible sources. Do this before you expend any time money and effort on something that = may work well for someone else. (NB mini-whips were developed for a = specific appartment problem where ferro-concrete was the build = material......they dont necessarily work with our brick walls.) A loop can be very useful for DFing the sources, but did not work for = reception for Roelof. I started quieting my station around the late 1990s. Ok it has got worse = in some areas but better in others. Small SMPSUs often operate way = higher than 136kHz now, but many previously quiet ''white goods'' was = SMPoer controllers for efficiency eg fridges and freezers, not to = mention the IoT. Many SMPSUs create more RFI when ''off' that when = powering something. By ''off'' I mean in standby......TVs can be bad for = this I moonlight on the RSGB EMC committee so have some experience and useful = contacts. Best Wishes=20 Alan G3NYK ----- Original Message -----=20 From: James Cowburn=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2018 5:46 PM Subject: LF: running a quick test beacon on 472.9. G7NKS. testing my = revised Hafler PA set up. Can see it on B'ham grabber. thanx fer any = other reports Hi All =20 running a quick test beacon on 472.9. G7NKS. testing my revised = Hafler PA set up. Can see it on B'ham grabber. thanx fer any other = reports. Message repeats every 5 mins @ 5wpm. =20 =20 Will leave it running for couple of hours or so=20 =20 approx 0.5W erp from a 10m vertical with 3 x 30m top wires (running NW = away from vertical ) =20 ELAD FDM duo 0dBM output into cheap EBAY 1w broadband amp into Hafler = 9505 as per W1TAG designs etc.=20 =20 Will give WSPR a run later but having the devils own job with getting = WSJT-X to be stable, keep getting the =93hamlib dll =93 error after a = couple of cycles. Very frustrating . =20 Also getting the ELAD to talk to HRDv5 and DM780 was a nightmare, but = eventually solved with virtual audio cables etc but certainly not = intuitive or easy. =20 Strangely, the Hafler P4000 puts out a bit more power as =93stock=94 = than the 9505 so am thinking about removing the feedback cap as = discussed in the various W1TAG pages but can=92t seem to work out how to = open the case of the 9505! =20 Jay/John =96 any tips? Is it the allen bolts?=20 =20 Next thing is to lower S7-S8 noise on separate Rx antenna. Have tried = using Tx antenna which is 15m away from house but top wires go over = house and so are prob picking up noise. Current separate Rx antenna 10m = vertical and 3 x 30m top wires also pass over house.=20 =20 Any suggestions as to a good low noise Rx antenna most welcome. = I=92ve tried a miniwhip but even when remote mounted on wooden pole with = earthed braid at house entry it is still s8 noise. G3XIZ suggests a = loop, he=92s probably right, but any other =93quick and dirty =93 ideas = appreciated =20 The ELAD via the 0dBm is excellent as an exciter and will generate RF = down to 5khz, so after some judicious coil winding, I=92ll be trying LF = again and then the heady lows of VLF. My best previous Dx on 8.9khz = being 500m! (thats metres not km!) =20 I may try Roger=92s G3XBM earth loop set up, but last time it didn=92t = work well but as I=92m out =93in the boonies=94 ~I don=92t think I have = much in the way of =93buried Utilities assistance=94 =20 Cheers for any reports =20 Mal (KEV) you must be able to hear me with your monster set up in = Scarbs!!=20 =20 =20 =20 with best regards =20 =20 Jim =20 Dr. Jim Cowburn G7NKS IO92ub =20 Biggleswade UK =20 Details on QRZ.com=20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01D40108.F595AC20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jim sadly the answer is not really a = ''low noise=20 antenna''  (try a dummy load if you are determined :-)) = )
 
I am afrain the first thing to do is = find the=20 source of the noise and try to kill it.  The first thing to do is = check=20 your own premises by sitch the supply master switch off. Listen on = battery=20 powered rig and note the reduction. At the levels you are quoting I am = sure some=20 of this is self generated. I got my mean noise levells downto a couple = of=20 microvolts from a 10m vertical alongside the house with 130m of=20 top-load.
 
A waterfall plot is quite useful for = diagnosing=20 possible sources.
 
Do this before you expend any time = money and effort=20 on something that may work well for someone else. (NB mini-whips were = developed=20 for a specific appartment problem where ferro-concrete was the build=20 material......they dont necessarily work with our brick = walls.)
 
A loop can be very useful for DFing the = sources,=20 but did not work for reception for Roelof.
 
I started quieting my station around = the late=20 1990s. Ok it has got worse in some areas but better in others. Small = SMPSUs=20 often operate way higher than 136kHz now, but many previously quiet = ''white=20 goods'' was SMPoer controllers for efficiency eg fridges and freezers, = not to=20 mention the IoT. Many SMPSUs create more RFI when ''off' that when = powering=20 something. By ''off'' I mean in standby......TVs can be bad = for=20 this
 
I moonlight on the RSGB EMC committee = so have some=20 experience and useful contacts.
 
Best Wishes
Alan
G3NYK
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 James=20 Cowburn
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2018 = 5:46=20 PM
Subject: LF: running a quick = test beacon=20 on 472.9. G7NKS. testing my revised Hafler PA set up. Can see it on = B'ham=20 grabber. thanx fer any other reports

Hi All

 

running a quick test beacon on 472.9.   = G7NKS.  testing my revised Hafler PA set up.  Can see it on = B'ham=20 grabber.  thanx fer any other reports.  Message repeats = every 5 mins=20 @ 5wpm. 

 

Will leave it running for couple of hours or so=20

 

approx 0.5W erp from a 10m vertical with 3 x 30m = top wires=20 (running NW away from vertical )

 

ELAD FDM duo  0dBM output into cheap EBAY 1w = broadband=20 amp into Hafler 9505 as per W1TAG designs etc.

 

Will give WSPR a run later but having the devils = own job=20 with getting WSJT-X to be stable, keep getting the =93hamlib dll =93 = error after a=20 couple of cycles.  Very frustrating .

 

Also getting the ELAD to talk to HRDv5 and DM780 = was a=20 nightmare, but eventually solved with virtual audio cables etc but = certainly=20 not intuitive or easy.

 

Strangely, the Hafler P4000 puts out a bit more = power as=20 =93stock=94 than the 9505 so am thinking about removing the feedback = cap as=20 discussed in the various W1TAG pages but can=92t seem to work out how = to open=20 the case of the 9505!

 

Jay/John =96 any tips?  Is it the allen = bolts?=20

 

Next thing is to lower S7-S8 noise on separate Rx = antenna.  Have tried using Tx antenna which is 15m away from = house but=20 top wires go over house and so are prob picking up noise.  = Current=20 separate Rx antenna 10m vertical and 3 x 30m top wires also pass over = house.=20

 

Any suggestions as to a good low noise Rx antenna = most=20 welcome.  I=92ve tried a miniwhip but even when remote mounted on = wooden=20 pole with earthed braid at house entry it is still s8 noise.  = G3XIZ=20 suggests a loop, he=92s probably right, but any other =93quick and = dirty =93 ideas=20 appreciated

 

The ELAD via the 0dBm is excellent as an exciter = and will=20 generate RF down to 5khz, so after some judicious coil winding, I=92ll = be trying=20 LF again and then the heady lows of VLF.  My best previous Dx on = 8.9khz=20 being 500m!  (thats metres not km!)

 

I may try Roger=92s G3XBM earth loop set up, but = last time it=20 didn=92t work well but as I=92m out =93in the boonies=94 ~I don=92t = think I have much in=20 the way of =93buried Utilities assistance=94

 

Cheers for any reports

 

Mal (KEV) you must be able to hear me with your = monster set=20 up in Scarbs!!

 

 

 

with best regards

 

 

Jim

 

Dr. Jim Cowburn G7NKS    =20 IO92ub

 

Biggleswade  UK

 

Details on QRZ.com

 

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