Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w3H76har026082 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2018 09:06:44 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1f8Kbi-0004jm-9F for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2018 08:00:50 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1f8Kbh-0004jd-KP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2018 08:00:49 +0100 Received: from mail-lf0-x233.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c07::233]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1f8Kbc-0004Wj-0v for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2018 08:00:48 +0100 Received: by mail-lf0-x233.google.com with SMTP id v207-v6so25690805lfa.10 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2018 00:00:43 -0700 (PDT) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=gmail.com Result=Good and Known Domain DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Ohkt4nt3OGypeIE8Vc76v7Ez5ETHtsi+6D/qqJ3Hf+o=; b=WA/VlgOPuXm8BerhGozLK8gNLTsSh7mDgEUXezD4CUg187cCCZVyQ4ykB0FNdnFCMH 7zrCnQn+ZUh8yDP7ni1pqjROf/L6QkN5wIy2SZ3/s4zNrgmdZFZRfgo1ZwTgrkVUPX58 NakT90m2uY61HB5yth8sYF0xQWVHWM1LhLPKMNYyxc09ijbkoRYRh4WwBJ7cnqmkquNz iM9JlqM0kv+8qqw9bwk4vyYIZe2DevfrLQSzBp94nG7P7uJhvD+4uRLLUdE1NVI0s4K7 QG9ygqTW7Xn8e/eM1uWN7mjE6GtbHdMBLGbuIH2JBhCf7rejUnRtcUDdIjwmxm7k8KTs cniA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=Ohkt4nt3OGypeIE8Vc76v7Ez5ETHtsi+6D/qqJ3Hf+o=; b=TIj/5CV2t+9UgBU0BwkJLVrCEFosNvW/1If1TPbYtgaBGoiw4Ug8oDz7tfou/D4IDA FKdFzD0oiKGIKThha5JeuigdiE40/UnwDur+ezhYw5x4dKGXzFoZBtdVmZSBpG+Vq8ZX TCTuGe6TFqFsXFX0sWNLsh98K8Rq9RbMXVYcSA8ymqE1V521W2EqMVNbmhqkiGgSCIYS dWM+tiG3g35a4vy6NusQ2nEv8RaX5LFUIp2njjd9emxK1JGxkwvihJSC8SqkwsY+mZNx jU2tmHMTchO9Sef/s8b4PzRNCkrfm1/yIB/hbUWYslibZyjEIVrBp9RExRZD2J8u8/e9 mzlA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tBZC76qhqqMuLgZlx8FTC+YOcahGtOLkKrdun1BSrEQKtVLF3Nz kdn0QOvPyVGSTrKxI8dt6prHco1eZI8Nswv1gK1f5g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx4+zS/d285jRSeE9w2RkxaP8mu3aJUaY66cwd1hg/u+oCdulWzA1F9msrrMzsdn8MkUwxDZNWnukoazFMnCV5Nk= X-Received: by 10.46.62.12 with SMTP id l12mr592125lja.66.1523948442172; Tue, 17 Apr 2018 00:00:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a19:a690:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Apr 2018 00:00:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <953519455.20180416112457@gmail.com> <71940ee0-587b-5f59-a709-bda5ca93d45a@n1bug.com> <586779889.20180416143246@gmail.com> From: ik1hgi Qrss Qrpp Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2018 09:00:41 +0200 Message-ID: To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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Content preview: Hello Gris and for some time I use this system with my U3-S for the RXTX you want to see on my wsb pages http://www.qsl.net/ik1hgi/472khz/rele-tx-rx.htm Helo 73 ik1hgi Antonio 2018-04-17 2:50 GMT+02:00 Riccardo Zoli : [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (ik1hgi.qrss[at]gmail.com) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 9c6f861813be21b949fefb381c49ca48 Subject: Re: LF: Antenna change over relay testing question Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f4f5e8075c408d409b056a05e554" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false --f4f5e8075c408d409b056a05e554 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hello Gris and for some time I use this system with my U3-S for the RXTX you want to see on my wsb pages http://www.qsl.net/ik1hgi/472khz/rele-tx-rx.htm Helo 73 ik1hgi Antonio 2018-04-17 2:50 GMT+02:00 Riccardo Zoli : > > Hi Chris, > > Considering that you're handling a lot of power, all you need is a simple > relay sequencer. > Take a look here: > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/xmwan9kuitu1l75/20180417_010251.jpg?dl=0 > > A 150-200ms delay step seems adequate. > Obviously, K1 is your Russian relay and K2 is your "safety relay". As Paul > said, you can also add a pair of 1N4148 connected in anti-parallel on RX > input. > > All the best > > > 73 de Riccardo IW4DXW > > > > Il Lun 16 Apr 2018, 15:36 Chris Wilson ha scritto: > >> >> >> Hello Paul. >> >> The U3S changes the state of a transistor switch that in turn powers >> the relays. the DC to DC convertor runs all the time. I guess I need >> some sort of latching device that stays in the latched state even if >> just a glitch from a short duration of high RF is seen on the receiver >> port. Needless to say for testing no RX will be connected....! Thanks >> for the reply. >> >> Monday, April 16, 2018, 2:19:02 PM, you wrote: >> >> > Hello Chris, >> >> > The only "something" I can think of would be a really small fast >> > blow fuse. Fuses come in ratings down to 1mA at least but they tend >> > to be pricey and a bit hard to find. I can't be sure that would blow >> > fast enough to catch all potential momentary glitches which might >> > harm a delicate receiver. Surely someone here has a better idea! >> >> > Reversing the amp and antenna connections should not cause the >> > problem in and of itself. Reversing those connections combined with >> > failure of the relay to switch would but in that case you probably >> > shouldn't have been receiving anything earlier in the night since >> > the antenna would never have been connected to the receiver. >> >> > I don't see how delayed relay switching would have caused your >> > problem (unless the connections were in fact reversed) but exactly >> > how is this configured? Does the U3S switch on the DC-DC converter >> > or does the DC-DC converter run all the time with the U3S simply >> > energizing the relay from it? I'm wondering about start-up time for >> > the converter... >> >> > Good luck with it. I personally don't like using the transmit >> > antenna for receiving as it slams way too high a level into the >> > receiver, leading to possible overload issues. I suppose you could >> > use an attenuator. >> >> > Even with a dedicated and small receiving antenna it's wise to >> > provide some sort of overload protection for the receiver. I >> > measured 250mW coming down the line from my LNV while transmitting >> > on LF with 200 watts! Not good! Here the protection is extremely >> > crude, a pair of back to back diodes across the receiver input. That >> > has protected my receiver but causes its own set of issues. >> > Unfortunately I don't have a better solution that works at LF. >> >> > Paul >> >> >> >> > On 04/16/2018 06:24 AM, Chris Wilson wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Hello LF'ers, >> >> >> >> After an expensive accident whereby my home brew antenna change over >> >> relay put nearly a kW of RF up the RX antenna jack of my Kenwood >> >> TS-590 i want to safely long term test the relay. It may have been my >> >> lack of foresight in using two identical N type sockets for the amp >> >> input and the antenna on the relay box and they got reversed...The >> >> relay is a Russian >> >> http://qro-parts.com/product_info.php?products_id=102 >> >> >> >> It needs 24V to reliably change, that is sourced from 12V via a DC to >> >> DC converter that is energised via a safely long delay from my U3S >> >> exciter so TX is delayed 100mS It's connected like this: >> >> >> >> >> >> The output of my 1 kW amplifier to NO connection and receiver to NC >> >> connection of the same relay, with COM port to antenna), then >> >> de-energized I'd always be in RX mode and energized I'd be in TX mode >> >> and there's no way the TX should ever be connected to the RX no >> >> matter what failed. (Theoretically! I am not sure what reversing the >> >> amp and antenna connections may have caused, but I am concerned some >> >> other issue caused the RF to appear on the RX port....) I don't think >> >> the pre LPF voltages from the amp would be too high for this relay, >> >> but can't be 1005 sure of this given what occurred. In any case >> >> there's also a 40 Amp 24V automotive "safety relay" that grounds the >> RX output jack >> >> when in TX mode. The failure of this to protect the TS-590 further >> >> suggests I might have had the antenna and amplifier connectors >> >> reversed, although it all worked fine until the early hours when the >> >> WSPR spots ceased and I found the bad news. >> >> >> >> Anyway, I need a "something" to put across the RX antenna output BNC >> >> socket that wil blow or somehow tell tale if RF is injected there. I >> >> don't have a high power enough dummy load other than a huge water >> >> cooled 10kW Bird one which means flowing mains water through it to an >> >> outside gutter overnight or longer. My none water cooled one won't >> >> take high power for long at all. If a FET blows in the amp I can >> >> swallow that, rather than my current Red Pitaya receiver getting RF up >> >> it :) So what could I put across the jack instead of a receiver that >> >> will tell tale anything nasty happening during a prolonged test >> >> please? Thanks. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Chris mailto:dead.fets@gmail.com >> >> >> -- Salve Antonio ik1hgi http://www.qsl.net/ik1hgi/472khz/gps-x.htm http://www.qsl.net/ik1hgi/472-50.htm http://www.qsl.net/ik1hgi/qrp/index.htm http://www.qsl.net/ik1hgi/eqsl.html ik1hgi.qrss@gmail.com ik1hgi.atv@gmail.com Antonio ik1hgi 73 RISERVATEZZA (ai sensi D.Lgs n. 196/03) --f4f5e8075c408d409b056a05e554 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Gris and for some time I use this system with my U3-= S for the RXTX you want to see on my wsb pages

http://www.qsl.net/ik1hgi/472khz/rel= e-tx-rx.htm=C2=A0
Helo 73 ik1hgi Antonio



2018-04-17 2:50 GMT+02:00 Riccardo Zoli <riccardozoli80@gmail.com= >:

Hi Chris,
Considering that you're handling a lot of pow= er, all you need is a simple relay sequencer.
Take a= look here:


A 150-200ms delay step seems adequate.
Obviously, K1 is your Russian relay and K2 is your "safety relay= ". As Paul said, you can also add a pair of 1N4148 connected in anti-p= arallel on RX input.

All= the best


73 de Riccardo IW4DXW


Il Lun 16 Apr 20= 18, 15:36 Chris Wilson <dea= d.fets@gmail.com> ha scritto:
http://qro-parts.com/product_info.php?pr= oducts_id=3D102
>>
>> It=C2=A0 needs 24V to reliably change, that is sourced from 12V vi= a a DC to
>> DC=C2=A0 converter=C2=A0 that=C2=A0 is=C2=A0 energised via a safel= y long delay from my U3S
>> exciter so TX is delayed 100mS=C2=A0 =C2=A0It's connected like= this:
>>
>>
>>=C2=A0 The output of my 1 kW amplifier to NO connection and receive= r to NC
>>=C2=A0 connection of the same relay, with COM port to antenna), the= n
>>=C2=A0 de-energized I'd always be in RX mode and energized I= 9;d be in TX mode
>>=C2=A0 and there's no way the TX should ever be connected to th= e RX no
>>=C2=A0 matter what failed. (Theoretically! I am not sure what rever= sing the
>>=C2=A0 amp and antenna connections may have caused, but I am concer= ned some
>>=C2=A0 other issue caused the RF to appear on the RX port....) I do= n't think
>>=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 pre=C2=A0 LPF voltages from the amp would be too h= igh for this relay,
>>=C2=A0 but=C2=A0 can't=C2=A0 be=C2=A0 1005=C2=A0 sure=C2=A0 of= =C2=A0 this given what occurred. In any case
>>=C2=A0 there's=C2=A0 also a 40 Amp 24V automotive "safety = relay" that grounds the RX output jack
>>=C2=A0 when=C2=A0 in=C2=A0 TX=C2=A0 mode. The failure of this to pr= otect the TS-590 further
>>=C2=A0 suggests=C2=A0 I=C2=A0 might=C2=A0 have=C2=A0 had=C2=A0 the= =C2=A0 antenna=C2=A0 and amplifier connectors
>>=C2=A0 reversed,=C2=A0 although it all worked fine until the early = hours when the
>>=C2=A0 WSPR spots ceased and I found the bad news.
>>
>> Anyway, I need a "something" to put across the RX antenn= a output BNC
>> socket that wil blow or somehow tell tale if RF is injected there.= I
>> don't have a high power enough dummy load other than a huge wa= ter
>> cooled 10kW Bird one which means flowing mains water through it to= an
>> outside gutter overnight or longer. My none water cooled one won&#= 39;t
>> take high power for long at all. If a FET blows in the amp I can >> swallow that, rather than my current Red Pitaya receiver getting R= F up
>> it :) So what could I put across the jack instead of a receiver th= at
>> will tell tale anything nasty happening during a prolonged test >> please? Thanks.




--
Best regards,
=C2=A0Chris=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 mailto:dead.fets@gmail.com





--
Salve Antonio ik1h= gi
http://www.qsl.net/ik1hgi/472khz/gps-x.htm

http://www.qsl.net/ik1hgi/qrp/index.htm

<= a href=3D"mailto:ik1hgi.qrss@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">ik1hgi.qrss@gmail= .com
ik1hg= i.atv@gmail.com

Antonio ik1hgi 73
RISERVATEZZA (= ai sensi D.Lgs n. 196/03)
<= /div>
--f4f5e8075c408d409b056a05e554--