Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w3175QgW013543 for ; Sun, 1 Apr 2018 09:05:28 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1f2WuH-0003IO-06 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2018 07:56:01 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1f2WsE-0003IB-NK for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2018 07:53:54 +0100 Received: from mail-wr0-f173.google.com ([209.85.128.173]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1f2Ws5-0001n2-UG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2018 07:53:49 +0100 Received: by mail-wr0-f173.google.com with SMTP id s18so10968381wrg.9 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2018 23:53:45 -0700 (PDT) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=gmail.com Result=Good and Known Domain DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=h5yRk4VqysYhoHS/KDY+fSOkn4R3w1B/1tMjr2FTG6c=; b=gYog+A3RJYsndoyk2tauFYvd+t39r144NHIlduyI1ws0EIQk3asley0TRVp6waV+UK /hFNxpjCS02kPHoBwRMn2zkfb4ncttcw+Z1IpmXuQaNaTvdi5kyJ/o9JcYsMTFMnnhgm aE/y6b91lhhuTOmsrimhwB0oNidRmKXAV/qTGIHFj4tkk42abu/GuI8o5gI/hzby9Pdm 6HHPJGPF0ocLKrj7ZBO5waDQDp9pNIz9WxsF14NgSywlMQd/qlLXEOj2bK3T3XVwztmR rqnxGVXRcOyA312PxUWvII1PzWhm4XnAOTqpRuPjrVSlL+cWuim+pIhkGGrBimwTDf3k XYkQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to :in-reply-to:message-id; bh=h5yRk4VqysYhoHS/KDY+fSOkn4R3w1B/1tMjr2FTG6c=; b=U8y6BtFY6t1G2omlebu6ceM/vqh1PLywhIU2ow7Ld/0dvfV+gv0pC0gqpwIc0bkptp 1lVYwO6vnRAnIRT8H2y6rhEngzqxKVzrEoWEPanWU1p9mFUZBh1+pHpQj2tgLwmrzotd PrdynR7RxCTzaKyaFpUNRlSte6X3ThiWt9uJJJioW4LD97GF+n9OuUx0EHm1ch+Jik+9 uPOd9CQITkPcd1ZanPW+xbWtQM1+8dZG3TBxqM0VrUnsBsWn1SLZ6MT0AECG74/Fvxba szmaq+2SLkLYhNjPHIwUu9spOsUOIAHiudmK9aCJOf3t8KpjqHFRIQeT4/ow8FnCjFL6 AZ9g== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tAF0JhKQzS0ToRhAPzqKdV/Zxx+kUCuUXURzKF/W3an3L/xiY5v 7KTkCCgP3I17T3JGBx43YdY5J6Zx X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx48iBMeqEWJV5RJAaiI1ieKuCr5ItpYeI+2X/2kNQwwAT2Nwxzr/4UcgydSpSvVu669pkhY4NQ== X-Received: by 10.223.169.54 with SMTP id u51mr3252269wrc.71.1522565562949; Sat, 31 Mar 2018 23:52:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([82.98.23.94]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s15sm12651238wrg.28.2018.03.31.23.52.41 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 31 Mar 2018 23:52:42 -0700 (PDT) From: John Rabson Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.2 \(3445.5.20\)) X-Priority: 3 Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2018 08:52:40 +0200 References: <5160a919-ec1f-92d4-24d2-4af64b822b1a@n1bug.com> <1627ca71c4d-1797-27ca@webjasstg-vaa58.srv.aolmail.net> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.5.20) X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: As has been pointed out, there seems to be some uncertainty about what was and what was not authorised in the early 2000s. In my first full-time job I shared a bench with a trade union branch secretary who said he much preferred written agreements because he could then argue about interpretation. [...] Content analysis details: (1.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (john.rabson07[at]gmail.com) 0.2 FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT Envelope-from freemail username ends in digit (john.rabson07[at]gmail.com) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 URIBL_SBL_A Contains URL's A record listed in the Spamhaus SBL blocklist [URIs: n1bug.com] 0.6 URIBL_SBL Contains an URL's NS IP listed in the Spamhaus SBL blocklist [URIs: n1bug.com] 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 852e9a9ee930056348c0102e6df31911 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8D8958E7-4B9B-4788-B476-8EC9E4D04E87" Subject: Re: LF: CORRECTION regarding 2E0ILY-N1BUG QSO X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false --Apple-Mail=_8D8958E7-4B9B-4788-B476-8EC9E4D04E87 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 As has been pointed out, there seems to be some uncertainty about what = was and what was not authorised in the early 2000s. In my first = full-time job I shared a bench with a trade union branch secretary who = said he much preferred written agreements because he could then argue = about interpretation. There is also the question of whether the authorities were aware of what = was going on and whether they chose to ignore it. It is possible they = were too busy with something else. John F5VLF > On 1 Apr 2018, at 00:26, Alan Melia wrote: >=20 > Hi Alex yes I am sure we all had our bouts of 'unlicenced = experimentation' The LF community was so small that anything like a T/A = qso would probably not go unnoticed. RU6LAs collection of events was an = interesting read. I must remember to consult it before = ''mis-remembering'' in future:-)) it corrected several silly errors in = my first post. > =20 > It seems a long time ago now . If you have contact with Ed (?) RU6LA = could you advise that the URL, behind the button to my propagation = report in the toolbar at the top, no longer exists. > =20 > Best Wishes > Alan > G3NYK > =20 > =20 > =20 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Alex R7NT >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = >> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2018 8:01 PM >> Subject: Re: LF: CORRECTION regarding 2E0ILY-N1BUG QSO >>=20 >> Alan, >> ie it was US pirate or unlis with a good experience of RX and TX on = LF in the early 2000s. >> I know such cases on 160m band in the USSR. In the early 1960s Vlad = UB5WF (pirate) made 2way legendary Stew W1BB and Jack VE1ZZ in = particular :) I gave part of his 160m log in Top-band reflector with = Vlad consent in 2004 >> I even know the current LF enthusiast from Russia on pirated 50mc :) >> In any case, congratulations to Chris and Paul on the first official = 2way QSO USA<>EU and USA<>G ! >>=20 >> 73! Alex R7NT 136.73.ru >> 2018-03-31 20:06 GMT+03:00 Alan Melia >: >>> Paul and Markus, I was triggered to do a little searching today. = (BTW I did NOT say there HAD been US<>EU 2-way QSOs with Warren K2ORS's = Part 5 licencees, I just indicated I thought it unlikely there had not)=20= >>> =20 >>> I have to say that I cannot find any evidence so far, despite WD2XES = John's station logs showing him copied extensively in EU over many = years, there is no 2-way QSO. I know the change to digital modes on a = local BC station made reception almost impossible for him. By the time = these Part 5 licences were issued many of the UK late-night LF addicts = (G3YXM, G0MRF, G3LDO, and G3AQC to mention a few) had left the band, and = a QSO at QRSS60 meant a sleepless night !. QRSS3 was possible on = favourable nights but best times were often just about an hour before = dawn in UK. Jay W1VD (who has better recetion to the East than John) = being currently active does not indicate his knowledge of such an event. >>> =20 >>> That being the case I would be inclined to reinstate your claim Paul = and Chris, against evidence to the contrary being put forward. Again = Congratulations on your efforts. I remember being told that we would not = get out of our back gardens on LF with a 1 watt ERP limit !! It is not = easy but that is what makes the effort worthwhile. >>> =20 >>> Best Wishes >>> Alan >>> G3NYK >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Markus Vester >>>> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = >>>> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2018 4:22 PM >>>> Subject: Re: LF: CORRECTION regarding 2E0ILY-N1BUG QSO >>>>=20 >>>> Hi Paul, >>>>=20 >>>> though I am aware that Canadian amateurs (VA3LK sk, VE1ZZ/VE1ZJ, = VO1NA) have conducted successful 2-way QSO's with Europeans, I somehow = don't remember having read about previous contacts involving U.S. = stations. Could someone share information who did it, and when?=20 >>>>=20 >>>> 73, Markus (DF6NM) >>>>=20 >>>> -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----=20 >>>> Von: N1BUG > >>>> An: rsgb_lf_group >; rsgb_lf_group = >; Discussion of the Lowfer (US, = European, & UK) and MedFer bands > >>>> Verschickt: Do, 29. Mrz 2018 20:29 >>>> Betreff: LF: CORRECTION regarding 2E0ILY-N1BUG QSO >>>>=20 >>>> It has been brought to my attention that there were two way = contacts >>>> between U.S. Part 5 stations and the UK (and perhaps other Europe) >>>> some years back. I did not know that some Part 5 licenses were >>>> authorized to make two way contacts with amateur radio stations. >>>> Much of what happened during those days does not seem to be well >>>> documented or widely known. >>>>=20 >>>> Therefore, with apologies to all concerned, I retract my statement >>>> that this was the first USA to UK or USA to Europe 137 kHz QSO. It >>>> was not my intent to take anything away from the accomplishments of >>>> those who paved the way for amateur occupancy of these bands. >>>>=20 >>>> Unless someone comes forward with information to the contrary I >>>> still believe it to be the first amateur to amateur USA to UK and >>>> USA to Europe QSO. At the time of my original post I was thinking, >>>> but failed to state, "amateur radio QSO". >>>>=20 >>>> In any case it was the most exciting QSO of my 37 years in amateur >>>> radio and I sincerely thank Chris, 2E0ILY, for his considerable >>>> effort and sacrifice which made it possible. >>>>=20 >>>> 73, >>>> Paul N1BUG >>>>=20 >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_8D8958E7-4B9B-4788-B476-8EC9E4D04E87 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 As = has been pointed out, there seems to be some uncertainty about what was = and what was not authorised in the early 2000s. In my first full-time = job I shared a bench with a trade union branch secretary who said he = much preferred written agreements because he could then argue about = interpretation.

There = is also the question of whether the authorities were aware of what was = going on and whether they chose to ignore it. It is possible they were = too busy with something else.

John F5VLF

On 1 Apr = 2018, at 00:26, Alan Melia <alan.melia@btinternet.com> wrote:

Hi Alex yes I am sure we all had our bouts of = 'unlicenced experimentation'  The LF community was so small that = anything like a T/A qso would probably not go unnoticed. RU6LAs = collection of events was an interesting read. I must remember to consult = it before ''mis-remembering'' in future:-))  it corrected several = silly errors in my first post.
 
It seems a long time ago now . If you have contact with Ed = (?) RU6LA could you advise that the URL, behind the button to my = propagation report in the toolbar at the top, no longer = exists.
 
Best Wishes
Alan
G3NYK
 
 
 
----- Original = Message -----
From: Alex R7NT
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2018 = 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: LF: CORRECTION = regarding 2E0ILY-N1BUG QSO

Alan,
ie it was US pirate or unlis = with a good experience of RX and TX on LF in the early 2000s.
I know such cases on 160m band in the = USSR. In the early 1960s Vlad UB5WF (pirate) made 2way legendary = Stew W1BB and Jack VE1ZZ in particular :) I gave part of his 160m = log in Top-band reflector with Vlad consent in 2004
I= even know the current LF enthusiast from Russia on pirated 50mc :)
In any case, congratulations to Chris = and Paul on the first official 2way QSO USA<>EU and USA<>G = !

=
73! Alex R7NT  136.73.ru

2018-03-31 20:06 GMT+03:00 Alan Melia <alan.melia@btinternet.com>:
Paul and Markus, I was triggered to = do a little searching today. (BTW I did NOT say there HAD been = US<>EU 2-way QSOs with Warren K2ORS's Part 5 licencees, I just = indicated I thought it unlikely there had not) 
 
I have to say that I cannot find any evidence = so far, despite WD2XES John's station logs showing him copied = extensively in EU over many years, there is no 2-way QSO. I know the = change to digital modes on a local BC station made reception almost = impossible for him. By the time these Part 5 licences were issued many = of the UK late-night LF addicts (G3YXM, G0MRF, G3LDO, and G3AQC to = mention a few) had left the band, and a QSO at QRSS60 meant a sleepless = night !. QRSS3 was possible on favourable nights but best times were = often just about an hour before dawn in UK. Jay W1VD (who has better = recetion to the East than John) being currently active does not indicate = his knowledge of such an event.
 
That being the = case I would be inclined to reinstate your claim Paul and Chris, against = evidence to the contrary being put forward. Again Congratulations = on your efforts. I remember being told that we would not get out of our = back gardens on LF with a 1 watt ERP limit !! It is not easy but = that is what makes the effort worthwhile.
 
Best Wishes
Alan
G3NYK
----- Original Message -----
From: Markus Vester
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2018 = 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: LF: CORRECTION = regarding 2E0ILY-N1BUG QSO

Hi Paul,

though = I am aware that Canadian amateurs (VA3LK sk, VE1ZZ/VE1ZJ, VO1NA) have = conducted successful 2-way QSO's with Europeans, I somehow = don't remember having read about previous = contacts involving U.S. stations. Could someone share = information who did it, and when? 

73, Markus (DF6NM)

-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung----- 
Von: N1BUG = <paul@n1bug.com>
An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; = rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk>; Discussion of the Lowfer (US, European, & UK) = and MedFer bands <lowfer@mailman.qth.net>
Verschickt: Do, 29. Mrz 2018 20:29
Betreff: LF: = CORRECTION regarding 2E0ILY-N1BUG QSO

It has been brought to my attention that there were two = way contacts
between U.S. Part 5 stations and the UK (and = perhaps other Europe)
some years back. I did not know that = some Part 5 licenses were
authorized to make two way = contacts with amateur radio stations.
Much of what = happened during those days does not seem to be well
documented or widely known.

Therefore, with apologies to all concerned, I retract my = statement
that this was the first USA to UK or USA to = Europe 137 kHz QSO. It
was not my intent to take anything = away from the accomplishments of
those who paved the way = for amateur occupancy of these bands.

Unless = someone comes forward with information to the contrary I
still believe it to be the first amateur to amateur USA to UK = and
USA to Europe QSO. At the time of my original post I = was thinking,
but failed to state, "amateur radio QSO".

In any case it was the most exciting QSO of my = 37 years in amateur
radio and I sincerely thank Chris, = 2E0ILY, for his considerable
effort and sacrifice which = made it possible.

73,
Paul = N1BUG




= --Apple-Mail=_8D8958E7-4B9B-4788-B476-8EC9E4D04E87--