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The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: There are always Grey areas in any walk of life and Amateur Radio was no exception. When it was announced that 500 khz would be released to Radio Amateurs in the Uk some already had Transmitters and were testing and communicating with others before the due date, discretely of course. The same applied to /MM and /AM activities before such licences were authorised. Some Radio Officers also Radio Amateurs would operate on the amateur bands from aircraft and ships. Likewise on LF and MF not every communication by Radio Amateurs was strictly authorised because of licence variations and restrictions, however communications did take place. At a later date when Licences for the above activities were issued and official attitudes were more relaxed we were all claiming a First for a contact with another Amateur or new Country etc when in fact it all took place before and it was old hat. Perhaps we should have two historical tables of past activities one Authorised and the other Unauthorised to cover the grey areas but who would admit to such activities. I do remember working the odd Russian station in the 1950’s but QSO’S were brief ie CQ DE UB6XXX and I would reply de G3KEV 599 and get 599 reply but no exchange of callsigns. On my radio licence I do not recall any restrictions forbidding me to QSO with others, the restrictions always seemed to be the other end. Amateur radio is not an exact science be prepared for surprises [...] Content analysis details: (0.7 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.6 URIBL_SBL Contains an URL's NS IP listed in the Spamhaus SBL blocklist [URIs: n1bug.com] 0.1 URIBL_SBL_A Contains URL's A record listed in the Spamhaus SBL blocklist [URIs: n1bug.com] 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 599cc1adb8e3cb65882b46c3fd2fd2b6 Subject: LF: Re: CORRECTION regarding 2E0ILY-N1BUG QSO Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0031_01D3C9AC.2F475C00" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01D3C9AC.2F475C00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There are always Grey areas in any walk of life and Amateur Radio was no = exception. When it was announced that 500 khz would be released to Radio = Amateurs in the Uk some already had Transmitters and were testing and = communicating with others before the due date, discretely of course. The same applied to /MM and /AM activities before such licences were = authorised. Some Radio Officers also Radio Amateurs would operate on the = amateur bands from aircraft and ships. Likewise on LF and MF not every = communication by Radio Amateurs was strictly authorised because of = licence variations and restrictions, however communications did take = place.=20 At a later date when Licences for the above activities were issued and = official attitudes were more relaxed we were all claiming a First for a = contact with another Amateur or new Country etc when in fact it all took = place before and it was old hat.=20 Perhaps we should have two historical tables of past activities one = Authorised and the other Unauthorised to cover the grey areas but who = would admit to such activities. I do remember working the odd Russian station in the 1950=E2=80=99s but = QSO=E2=80=99S were brief ie CQ DE UB6XXX and I would reply de G3KEV 599 = and get 599 reply but no exchange of callsigns. On my radio licence I do = not recall any restrictions forbidding me to QSO with others, the = restrictions always seemed to be the other end.=20 Amateur radio is not an exact science be prepared for surprises=20 I think the subject is now exhausted. G3KEV/YI2DX/VS6HI/9V1OY/VS9MB/VR4MH/ZC4DX/5A4MH/9M2CC/EI2AE/GI3KEV i still have some QSL cards if anyone worked me and is desperate for a = First =20 From: John Rabson=20 Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2018 7:52 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: CORRECTION regarding 2E0ILY-N1BUG QSO As has been pointed out, there seems to be some uncertainty about what = was and what was not authorised in the early 2000s. In my first = full-time job I shared a bench with a trade union branch secretary who = said he much preferred written agreements because he could then argue = about interpretation.=20 There is also the question of whether the authorities were aware of what = was going on and whether they chose to ignore it. It is possible they = were too busy with something else. John F5VLF On 1 Apr 2018, at 00:26, Alan Melia wrote: Hi Alex yes I am sure we all had our bouts of 'unlicenced = experimentation' The LF community was so small that anything like a T/A = qso would probably not go unnoticed. RU6LAs collection of events was an = interesting read. I must remember to consult it before = ''mis-remembering'' in future:-)) it corrected several silly errors in = my first post. It seems a long time ago now . If you have contact with Ed (?) RU6LA = could you advise that the URL, behind the button to my propagation = report in the toolbar at the top, no longer exists. Best Wishes Alan G3NYK ----- Original Message ----- From: Alex R7NT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2018 8:01 PM Subject: Re: LF: CORRECTION regarding 2E0ILY-N1BUG QSO Alan,=20 ie it was US pirate or unlis with a good experience of RX and TX on = LF in the early 2000s. I know such cases on 160m band in the USSR. In the early 1960s Vlad = UB5WF (pirate) made 2way legendary Stew W1BB and Jack VE1ZZ in = particular :) I gave part of his 160m log in Top-band reflector with = Vlad consent in 2004 I even know the current LF enthusiast from Russia on pirated 50mc :) In any case, congratulations to Chris and Paul on the first official = 2way QSO USA<>EU and USA<>G ! 73! Alex R7NT 136.73.ru 2018-03-31 20:06 GMT+03:00 Alan Melia : Paul and Markus, I was triggered to do a little searching today. = (BTW I did NOT say there HAD been US<>EU 2-way QSOs with Warren K2ORS's = Part 5 licencees, I just indicated I thought it unlikely there had not)=20 I have to say that I cannot find any evidence so far, despite = WD2XES John's station logs showing him copied extensively in EU over = many years, there is no 2-way QSO. I know the change to digital modes on = a local BC station made reception almost impossible for him. By the time = these Part 5 licences were issued many of the UK late-night LF addicts = (G3YXM, G0MRF, G3LDO, and G3AQC to mention a few) had left the band, and = a QSO at QRSS60 meant a sleepless night !. QRSS3 was possible on = favourable nights but best times were often just about an hour before = dawn in UK. Jay W1VD (who has better recetion to the East than John) = being currently active does not indicate his knowledge of such an event. That being the case I would be inclined to reinstate your claim = Paul and Chris, against evidence to the contrary being put forward. = Again Congratulations on your efforts. I remember being told that we = would not get out of our back gardens on LF with a 1 watt ERP limit !! = It is not easy but that is what makes the effort worthwhile. Best Wishes Alan G3NYK ----- Original Message ----- From: Markus Vester To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2018 4:22 PM Subject: Re: LF: CORRECTION regarding 2E0ILY-N1BUG QSO Hi Paul, though I am aware that Canadian amateurs (VA3LK sk, VE1ZZ/VE1ZJ, = VO1NA) have conducted successful 2-way QSO's with Europeans, I somehow = don't remember having read about previous contacts involving U.S. = stations. Could someone share information who did it, and when?=20 73, Markus (DF6NM) -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----=20 Von: N1BUG An: rsgb_lf_group ; rsgb_lf_group = ; Discussion of the Lowfer (US, = European, & UK) and MedFer bands Verschickt: Do, 29. Mrz 2018 20:29 Betreff: LF: CORRECTION regarding 2E0ILY-N1BUG QSO It has been brought to my attention that there were two way = contacts between U.S. Part 5 stations and the UK (and perhaps other = Europe) some years back. I did not know that some Part 5 licenses were authorized to make two way contacts with amateur radio stations. Much of what happened during those days does not seem to be well documented or widely known. Therefore, with apologies to all concerned, I retract my = statement that this was the first USA to UK or USA to Europe 137 kHz QSO. = It was not my intent to take anything away from the accomplishments = of those who paved the way for amateur occupancy of these bands. Unless someone comes forward with information to the contrary I still believe it to be the first amateur to amateur USA to UK = and USA to Europe QSO. At the time of my original post I was = thinking, but failed to state, "amateur radio QSO". In any case it was the most exciting QSO of my 37 years in = amateur radio and I sincerely thank Chris, 2E0ILY, for his considerable effort and sacrifice which made it possible. 73, Paul N1BUG ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01D3C9AC.2F475C00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
There are always Grey areas in any walk of life and Amateur Radio = was no=20 exception. When it was announced that 500 khz would be released to Radio = Amateurs in the Uk some already had Transmitters and were testing and=20 communicating  with others before the due date, discretely of = course.
The same applied to /MM and /AM activities before such licences = were=20 authorised. Some Radio Officers also Radio Amateurs would operate on the = amateur=20 bands from aircraft and ships. Likewise on LF and MF not every = communication by=20 Radio Amateurs was strictly authorised because of licence variations and = restrictions, however communications did take place.
At a later date when Licences for the above activities were issued = and=20 official attitudes were more relaxed we were all claiming a First for a = contact=20 with another Amateur or new Country etc when in fact it all took place = before=20 and it was old hat.
Perhaps we should have two historical tables of past activities one = Authorised and the other Unauthorised to cover the grey areas but who = would=20 admit to such activities.
I do remember working the odd Russian station in the 1950=E2=80=99s = but QSO=E2=80=99S were=20 brief ie CQ DE UB6XXX and I would reply de G3KEV 599 and get 599 reply = but no=20 exchange of callsigns. On my radio licence I do not recall any = restrictions=20 forbidding me to QSO with others, the restrictions always seemed to be = the other=20 end.
Amateur radio is not an exact science be prepared for surprises =
 
I think the subject is now exhausted.
 
G3KEV/YI2DX/VS6HI/9V1OY/VS9MB/VR4MH/ZC4DX/5A4MH/9M2CC/EI2AE/GI3KEV
 
i still have some QSL cards if anyone worked me and is desperate = for a=20 First
 
   
 
From: John Rabson
Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2018 7:52 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =
Subject: Re: LF: CORRECTION regarding 2E0ILY-N1BUG=20 QSO
 
As=20 has been pointed out, there seems to be some uncertainty about what was = and what=20 was not authorised in the early 2000s. In my first full-time job I = shared a=20 bench with a trade union branch secretary who said he much preferred = written=20 agreements because he could then argue about interpretation.=20
 
There is also the question of whether the authorities were aware of = what=20 was going on and whether they chose to ignore it. It is possible they = were too=20 busy with something else.
 
John F5VLF

On 1 Apr 2018, at 00:26, Alan Melia=20 <alan.melia@btinternet.com> wrote:
 
Hi Alex yes I am sure we all had our bouts of = 'unlicenced=20 experimentation'  The LF community was so small that anything = like a T/A=20 qso would probably not go unnoticed. RU6LAs collection of events was = an=20 interesting read. I must remember to consult it before = ''mis-remembering'' in=20 future:-))  it corrected several silly errors in my first=20 post.
 
It seems a long time ago now . If you have = contact with Ed=20 (?) RU6LA could you advise that the URL, behind the button to my = propagation=20 report in the toolbar at the top, no longer exists.
 
Best Wishes
Alan G3NYK       -----=20 Original Message ----- From: Alex=20 R7NT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2018 = 8:01=20 PM Subject: Re: LF: CORRECTION = regarding=20 2E0ILY-N1BUG QSO
 
Alan,=20
ie it was US pirate or unlis with a good experience of RX and = TX on LF=20 in the early 2000s.
I know such cases on 160m band in the USSR. In the early 1960s = Vlad=20 UB5WF (pirate) made 2way legendary Stew W1BB and Jack VE1ZZ in = particular :)=20 I gave part of his 160m log in Top-band reflector with Vlad consent = in=20 2004
I even know the current LF enthusiast from Russia on pirated = 50mc=20 :)
In any case, congratulations to Chris and Paul on the first = official=20 2way QSO USA<>EU and USA<>G !
 
73! Alex R7NT  136.73.ru
 
2018-03-31 20:06 GMT+03:00 Alan Melia <alan.melia@btinternet.com>:
Paul and Markus, I was triggered = to do a=20 little searching today. (BTW I did NOT say there HAD been = US<>EU=20 2-way QSOs with Warren K2ORS's Part 5 licencees, I just indicated = I=20 thought it unlikely there had not) 
 
I have to say that I cannot find = any evidence=20 so far, despite WD2XES John's station logs showing him copied = extensively=20 in EU over many years, there is no 2-way QSO. I know the change to = digital=20 modes on a local BC station made reception almost impossible for = him. By=20 the time these Part 5 licences were issued many of the UK = late-night LF=20 addicts (G3YXM, G0MRF, G3LDO, and G3AQC to mention a few) had left = the=20 band, and a QSO at QRSS60 meant a sleepless night !. QRSS3 was = possible on=20 favourable nights but best times were often just about an hour = before dawn=20 in UK. Jay W1VD (who has better recetion to the East than John) = being=20 currently active does not indicate his knowledge of such an=20 event.
 
That being the case I would be = inclined to=20 reinstate your claim Paul and Chris, against evidence to the = contrary=20 being put forward. Again Congratulations on your efforts. I = remember being=20 told that we would not get out of our back gardens on LF with a 1 = watt ERP=20 limit !! It is not easy but that is what makes the effort=20 worthwhile.
 
Best Wishes
Alan
G3NYK
-----=20 Original Message -----
From: Markus Vester
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Sent: Saturday, March 31, = 2018 4:22=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: CORRECTION = regarding=20 2E0ILY-N1BUG QSO
 
Hi=20 Paul,

though I am aware that Canadian amateurs (VA3LK sk, = VE1ZZ/VE1ZJ, VO1NA) have conducted successful 2-way QSO's with=20 Europeans, I somehow don't remember having read about previous = contacts=20 involving U.S. stations. Could someone share information who did = it, and=20 when?

73, Markus (DF6NM)

-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche=20 Mitteilung----- 
Von:=20 N1BUG <paul@n1bug.com>
An: = rsgb_lf_group=20 <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>;=20 rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk>; = Discussion=20 of the Lowfer (US, European, & UK) and MedFer bands <lowfer@mailman.qth.net>
Verschickt: = Do, 29. Mrz=20 2018 20:29
Betreff: LF: CORRECTION regarding 2E0ILY-N1BUG=20 QSO

It has been brought to my attention that there = were two=20 way contacts
between U.S. Part 5 stations and the UK (and = perhaps=20 other Europe)
some years back. I did not know that some Part = 5=20 licenses were
authorized to make two way contacts with = amateur radio=20 stations.
Much of what happened during those days does not = seem to be=20 well
documented or widely known.

Therefore, with = apologies to=20 all concerned, I retract my statement
that this was the first = USA to=20 UK or USA to Europe 137 kHz QSO. It
was not my intent to take = anything away from the accomplishments of
those who paved the = way for=20 amateur occupancy of these bands.

Unless someone comes = forward=20 with information to the contrary I
still believe it to be the = first=20 amateur to amateur USA to UK and
USA to Europe QSO. At the = time of my=20 original post I was thinking,
but failed to state, "amateur = radio=20 QSO".

In any case it was the most exciting QSO of my 37 = years in=20 amateur
radio and I sincerely thank Chris, 2E0ILY, for his=20 considerable
effort and sacrifice which made it=20 possible.

73,
Paul=20 N1BUG

 
 
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