Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w36IhTKt007118 for ; Fri, 6 Apr 2018 20:43:32 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1f4WBp-0006is-G2 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2018 19:34:21 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1f4WBl-0006if-Vi for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2018 19:34:17 +0100 Received: from porthos.netcom.co.uk ([217.72.171.73]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1f4WBi-0006ZU-MS for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2018 19:34:16 +0100 X-DKIM-Result: Domain=abelian.org Result=Signature OK DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=abelian.org ; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To: MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:From:References:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=R5nbZibZfcRfgwUokbuZRuV8CiJ40OKXrsZ6EVSCKJI=; b=Fm3lwi8IljfWd4Ix9Wz0mAo1BS n9SZ67kew1as61SvUE13HywxrEA5lapi6dnFsdM8sYMNAVUhPVM1ABKYQbk4Sd2Z0MNW3fu/uZu1l HkrHtWFxClNZuDCrLq75mcvBM61adtQ+XRbINvhExegtZBNgphYzlWxCMW2UGaL4BpXA=; Received: from i-194-106-52-83.freedom2surf.net ([194.106.52.83]:49377 helo=pn.abelian.org) by porthos.netcom.co.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89_1) (envelope-from ) id 1f4WBe-0003W0-Et for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2018 19:34:10 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pn.abelian.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2635400456 for ; Fri, 6 Apr 2018 18:34:09 +0000 (UTC) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <1629b0b7c40-1795-64b@webjasstg-vab15.srv.aolmail.net> <714D92E9B0B7484E9256B09D308D2F24@DELL4> From: Paul Nicholson Message-ID: <19bfffe7-27a4-89cb-1e20-f503261ec59d@abelian.org> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2018 18:34:09 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <714D92E9B0B7484E9256B09D308D2F24@DELL4> Content-Language: en-US X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - porthos.netcom.co.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - blacksheep.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - abelian.org X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: porthos.netcom.co.uk: authenticated_id: catchall@abelian.org X-Authenticated-Sender: porthos.netcom.co.uk: catchall@abelian.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Stefan was kind enough to put me in the loop on this experiment, a couple of days ago sending me a bunch of daily .wav files and asking for comment on the significance of the data. There was an obvious clear peak in the spectra at the expected frequency, that was with 11 repeats of the transmission. [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 17343f7e400f1005b5081acbd4115359 Subject: Re: VLF: Carrier detection DL > VK7 on 17.4701 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Stefan was kind enough to put me in the loop on this experiment, a couple of days ago sending me a bunch of daily .wav files and asking for comment on the significance of the data. There was an obvious clear peak in the spectra at the expected frequency, that was with 11 repeats of the transmission. I ran LWPC for the path and saw immediately that it matched quite well the chart that Stefan had produced showing S/N in a range of bandwidths. LWPC predicted only a brief period of stable phase, from roughly 19:00 to 21:30 UT. Running my own stacking produced the same peak that Stefan was reporting. The S/N was about 12dB which is a significant peak and one which we would normally readily accept as a result. But this is such an extraordinary achievement, Stefan felt that it needed a more confident analysis. Especially as we are stacking multiple repeats and there's a potential there for artifacts and bias to creep in. With a genuine weak signal, we expect the S/N to more or less improve as more repeats are added. There can be the odd setback if a noisy day is added, but generally more repeats should give higher S/N. It should also be possible to see the signal when stacking non-overlapping subsets of the available repeats. To test these I set a spare machine to run all combinations of the 11 files: 2047 stacking permutations, and I ran each permutation with a range of start times and bandwidths. There were around 21000 spectra to analyse and the 17470.1 Hz peak was a prominent result. There were 7 peaks on other frequencies with slightly greater S/N. All of these occurred with stacking 7 or fewer files. The following day, another repeat was available and I re-ran the trials, this time with 53261 spectra and a total of 589626765 frequency bins. Only two bins had slightly higher S/N than the genuine peak. One came from stacking just three files, the other from six files. Very encouraging to see the significance increase like this with the extra day. I also compared combinations of non-overlapping subsets of repeats and found 37 pairs. This shows that the signal isn't just present on a few of the days. It would be highly unlikely to find even one pair sharing the same random noise peak. It was also apparent that the optimum start time was around 19:10 with duration 2.5 hours - a bandwidth of 111.1 uHz. A final day arrived and this time 122865 spectra were examined. A total of 1326819135 frequency bins and the best peak out of all of them was 14.13 dB S/N in 111.1 uHz at 17470.1 Hz, a 2.5 hour duration beginning 19:20 UT. This was with a stack of 12 repeats (dropped the 26th March). The stack of all 13 repeats gave S/N 13.95 dB. There were no other higher peaks in the 1.3 billion Fourier bins. Here is the winning spectrum: http://abelian.org/vlf/tmp/180406c.png The probability of any particular bin reaching this S/N by chance against a Rayleigh bin amplitude distribution is about 2.4e-9. From a total of 122865 spectra which checked every permutation (8191) of 13 files, with 15 combinations of bandwidth and start time, 21611 spectra peaked at 17470.1 Hz. No other frequency came close to that, the next best being 17470.0542591 Hz with 2318 trials producing that peak. 17470.1 Hz was the strongest peak in: The 13-stack; All 13 12-stacks; All 78 11-stacks; All 286 10-stacks; 672 of 715 9-stacks; 1084 of 1287 8-stacks; when the above are measured in 111.1 uHz from 19:20 UT. We can clearly see the genuine signal becoming dominant as more repeats are stacked. I see no way to avoid the conclusion that this is a genuine detection of a ~2mW VLF carrier at a distance of 16805 km, about 85% of the way to the antipodal point. This completely smashes all previous VLF distance records. It is all the more remarkable due to the narrow time window where the phase is stable. -- Paul Nicholson --