Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w2OHlcTK012801 for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2018 18:47:39 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1eznC2-0006Xe-Mp for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Mar 2018 17:43:02 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1eznBf-0006XV-SX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Mar 2018 17:42:39 +0000 Received: from resqmta-ch2-09v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.41]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eznBY-0006r1-Qg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Mar 2018 17:42:37 +0000 Received: from resomta-ch2-06v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.102]) by resqmta-ch2-09v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id zn9TeAuPYK6Iwzn9Ye7ZAS; Sat, 24 Mar 2018 17:40:28 +0000 X-DKIM-Result: Domain=comcast.net Result=Signature OK DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20161114; t=1521913228; bh=orz6a6KVtBEEeyriqabwkuJBoRxrJ8c+A1D3JCAjOHM=; h=Received:Received:From:Subject:To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Date: Message-ID; b=BF0RfHT1D0HTLVWCeI8KuAXwQBK6xOGJuN32feWw9tqL8hi7A2CTdTLXW+S/0XSm9 rdScF+4KeOvEgbhVEXMkCaVsyEIgG7tdCBafB31qx6J+IPY5HA5nZRitFtwTxDRPlX uvvGaipaagwELSvrMuLtp2pC0jEnVmQeX+6xhHfsffKUy0//69JrYca/x3BJFxCifq YLbKumVv2bcHw+ZOhcKocHPDdP52E7mqUBS3LLOKXHrlfTOU93rE/iVEWkYE+Whfr+ avDzQhMinCYwmZ5eCDNhXij1MSdI7kdLlQlp7rNLKTu3IiyFJXtBSWL94n5P/3sH4H +IPLXMf7kECHw== Received: from Optiplex980-PC ([73.4.253.141]) by resomta-ch2-06v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id zn9Wexh9MWoE0zn9XeB50p; Sat, 24 Mar 2018 17:40:28 +0000 From: "jrusgrove@comcast.net" To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <16254e122f1-c8b-18d3d@webjas-vad169.srv.aolmail.net> <5AB5F6A3.10109@posteo.de> <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003ABA3C3D00B@servigilant.vigilant.local> <5AB68453.6040806@posteo.de> Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2018 13:40:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1UQPvEY5dV.CIkA9ypCe7L@optiplex980-pc> In-Reply-To: <5AB68453.6040806@posteo.de> User-Agent: OEClassic/2.7 (Win7; P; 2017-02-12) X-Mailer: OEClassic/2.7 (Win7; P; 2017-02-12) X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfGJDx8mJXZG66EZrJzX6Xgt6/YsW0fOuQWX8oVtTjIKzURYBJ+wjXjIyElMpbicRAKgn2G244slNPQV0e6pXipWY1yG9izrT2QMFh1UBDviqAjj11oA0 Yw8ZGN293wmd9Pxx3rv0QjLGNXNi6pdc94DVqztIR2C609wS+6yL4dDEZB+Pu78K40RdIG0v0o5X3Q== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Paul In addition to Stefan's comments ... When starting out with EbNaut I found it helpful to scour the archives of this reflector [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (jrusgrove[at]comcast.net) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 91e1efbff209cbddb14bc9e018c2cfe8 Subject: Re: LF: K3RWR LF EbNaut in CT Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="mXuiJnr8Jp=_85PsmSGyubCu2waqQe9PN1" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false This is a multi-part message in MIME format --mXuiJnr8Jp=_85PsmSGyubCu2waqQe9PN1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Paul In addition to=20 Stefan's comments ...=20 When starting out with EbNaut I found it helpful to scour the archives= of this reflector =20 https://klubnl.pl/rsgb_lf_group-archives/html/rsgb_lf_group/ for info= rmation on EbNaut. If going the Windows route, a level of proficiency with Spectrum Labor= atory will be required ... expect a bit of a learning curve ;~) .=20 K3RWR is running an HP3325 driving a Hafler amplifier. Phase shift is = accomplished in the 3325. Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: DK7FC Reply-To: To: Sent: 3/24/2018 1:01:07 PM Subject: Re: LF: K3RWR LF EbNaut in CT Hm, let me try. I'm=20 not an expert on all rigs and software components which can do the job= =2E I try to repeat some basically things. There is the way to use Linux and Windows for EbNaut generation and=20= reception. Linux clearly offers more functions and performance but=20 Windows is simply more common on the currently active RX and TX sites.= =20 So let me focus on Windows. VLF reception is easier regarding frequency stability because you just= =20 need to lock the soundcard to a source of absolute stability. The=20 easiest method is to use a cheaply available GPS module.=20 I'm using the=20 old NEO-6M version here on almost any site (RX and TX) but i heared=20= about modules of higher performance and functionality, such as the=20 NEO-7M or 7N. Other may add their comments. For example IW4DXW ( i=20 think) took a NEO-7N as a LO frequency generator, which will be=20 necessary for LF reception, at least if you are one of those preferrin= g=20 to build their own RX/TX stuff. I have no idea about HDSDR or commercial receivers. SpecLab allows to export FFT data into small txt files which can be=20= converted into wav files using tools by DF6NM. These wav files can be=20= evaluated in the Windows version of Paul's=20 EbNaut decoder. This is the=20 way as many VLF/LF operators do it. A txt file has a size of e.g. 369kB, so you can easily generate a file= =20 per hour, for several weeks, and try to decode an announced message la= ter. As long as the audio out of your LF converter is free from frequency=20= offsets, drift and phase glitches, then SpecLab and your PC built-in=20= soundcard can do the rest. So the investment is not dramatic. If you=20 don't trust the stability of your hardware, just make a test and=20 run a carrier from an absolutely stable signal source and try to decod= e=20 a '*' message in EbNaut. The EbNaut decoder will need a wav file to search the message in. And=20= for Windows i currently know only one method to generate these files=20= (including the correct header in the correct format): SpecLab and=20 Markus'=20 tools. And SpecLab is a tool working together with soundcards or=20 virtual audio cables of course. I use VAC and have no problem with SR=20= glitches but=20 i'm passing the ref signal through VAC as well, so SpecLab=20 is the backend and will correct eventual glitches. A lot of text already. I hope it was not do difficult and helped a bit= =2E.. 73, Stefan Am 24.03.2018 15:12, schrieb N1BUG: > On 03/24/2018 09:18 AM, VIGILANT Luis Fern=C3=A1ndez wrote: > >=20 >> Anyway would be interesting to discuss the hardware needed for >> decoding EbNaut in LF Would help others to figure out how to >> start using their stations already decoding WSPR, etc >>=20 > Yes, please! We need help! > > I have similar questions as Luis. > > I'm=20 using a simple home built SDR feeding I/Q to a sound card, HDSDR > output to a virtual cable (VB Cable). > > Do I need to worry about sample rate correction on VB Cable? If so > is there any way to do it? > > Do I need to worry about sample rate on the sound card which is > receiving I/Q from the SDR? If so, is there any way to do it? Both > left and right channel are in use. > > What about time stamping? There are some delays I think in HDSDR. I >=20 don't know if there is any way to work around this. > > I would need a more stable LO for the SDR than its present crystal > oscillator! I still don't=20 know how to do this at reasonable cost. I > suppose it will require a GPSDO which could output 450 kHz or > something around there, but I have no practical idea how to do this.= > The more I read, the more confused I become. > > By the way I have a HP 3325B. Is this of any use for either the > receiver LO or for transmitting EbNaut? It has the internal high > stability option but I assume this is nowhere near good enough. It > can accept external reference at 1 or 10 MHz but I do not know if > this can make it good enough for anything. It also has a Phase mod > input, but I know nothing about this. > > 73, > Paul N1BUG > >=20 --mXuiJnr8Jp=_85PsmSGyubCu2waqQe9PN1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Paul
 
In addition to Stefan's comments ...
 
When starting out with EbNaut I found it helpful to scour the arc= hives of this reflector  
 
 
If going the Windows route, a level of proficiency = ;with Spectrum Laboratory will be required ... expect a bit of a = learning curve ;~) . 
 
K3RWR is running an HP3325 driving a Hafler amplifier.&= nbsp;Phase shift is accomplished in the 3325.
 
Jay W1VD  WD2XNS  WE2XGR/2     = ;     
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 3/24/2018 1:01:07 PM
Subject: Re: LF: K3RWR LF EbNaut in CT
Hm, let me try.
I'm not an expert on all rigs and software componen= ts which can do the job.
I try to repeat some basically things.
= There is the way to use Linux and Windows for EbNaut generation and reception. Linux clearly offers more functions and performance but <= BR>Windows is simply more common on the currently active RX and TX sit= es.
So let me focus on Windows.
VLF reception is easier regardi= ng frequency stability because you just
need to lock the soundcard= to a source of absolute stability. The
easiest method is to use a= cheaply available GPS module. I'm using the
old NEO-6M version he= re on almost any site (RX and TX) but i heared
about modules of hi= gher performance and functionality, such as the
NEO-7M or 7N. Othe= r may add their comments. For example IW4DXW ( i
think) took a NEO= -7N as a LO frequency generator, which will be
necessary for LF re= ception, at least if you are one of those preferring
to build thei= r own RX/TX stuff.
I have no idea about HDSDR or commercial receive= rs.
SpecLab allows to export FFT data into small txt files which ca= n be
converted into wav files using tools by DF6NM. These wav file= s can be
evaluated in the Windows version of Paul's EbNaut decoder= =2E This is the
way as many VLF/LF operators do it.
A txt file = has a size of e.g. 369kB, so you can easily generate a file
per ho= ur, for several weeks, and try to decode an announced message later.As long as the audio out of your LF converter is free from frequency=
offsets, drift and phase glitches, then SpecLab and your PC built= -in
soundcard can do the rest. So the investment is not dramatic.<= BR>
If you don't trust the stability of your hardware, just make a = test and
run a carrier from an absolutely stable signal source and= try to decode
a '*' message in EbNaut.

The EbNaut decoder = will need a wav file to search the message in. And
for Windows i c= urrently know only one method to generate these files
(including t= he correct header in the correct format): SpecLab and
Markus' tool= s. And SpecLab is a tool working together with soundcards or
virtu= al audio cables of course. I use VAC and have no problem with SR
g= litches but i'm passing the ref signal through VAC as well, so SpecLab=
is the backend and will correct eventual glitches.

A lot o= f text already. I hope it was not do difficult and helped a bit...
=
73, Stefan

Am 24.03.2018 15:12, schrieb N1BUG:
> On 0= 3/24/2018 09:18 AM, VIGILANT Luis Fern=C3=A1ndez wrote:
>
>= ;
>> Anyway would be interesting to discuss the hardware nee= ded for
>> decoding EbNaut in LF Would help others to figure = out how to
>> start using their stations already decoding WSP= R, etc
>>
> Yes, please! We need help!
>
>= I have similar questions as Luis.
>
> I'm using a simple = home built SDR feeding I/Q to a sound card, HDSDR
> output to a = virtual cable (VB Cable).
>
> Do I need to worry about sam= ple rate correction on VB Cable? If so
> is there any way to do = it?
>
> Do I need to worry about sample rate on the sound = card which is
> receiving I/Q from the SDR? If so, is there any = way to do it? Both
> left and right channel are in use.
><= BR>> What about time stamping? There are some delays I think in HDS= DR. I
> don't know if there is any way to work around this.
&= gt;
> I would need a more stable LO for the SDR than its present= crystal
> oscillator! I still don't know how to do this at reas= onable cost. I
> suppose it will require a GPSDO which could out= put 450 kHz or
> something around there, but I have no practical= idea how to do this.
> The more I read, the more confused I bec= ome.
>
> By the way I have a HP 3325B. Is this of any use = for either the
> receiver LO or for transmitting EbNaut? It has = the internal high
> stability option but I assume this is nowher= e near good enough. It
> can accept external reference at 1 or 1= 0 MHz but I do not know if
> this can make it good enough for an= ything. It also has a Phase mod
> input, but I know nothing abou= t this.
>
> 73,
> Paul N1BUG
>
>
--mXuiJnr8Jp=_85PsmSGyubCu2waqQe9PN1--