Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w2VIqG9W009537 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2018 20:52:18 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1f2LSg-0007Ig-1k for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Mar 2018 19:42:46 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1f2LQ7-0007I2-6P for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Mar 2018 19:40:07 +0100 Received: from omr-a019e.mx.aol.com ([204.29.186.67]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1f2Jbe-0007mH-Ua for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Mar 2018 17:43:57 +0100 Received: from mtaomg-mcc02.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mcc02.mx.aol.com [172.26.253.80]) by omr-a019e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id B888238000A5 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2018 12:43:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-acd05f.mail.aol.com (core-acd05.mail.aol.com [172.27.22.15]) by mtaomg-mcc02.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 6419E38000083 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2018 12:43:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 188.194.222.230 by webjasstg-vab24.srv.aolmail.net (10.96.25.91) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 31 Mar 2018 12:43:48 -0400 Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2018 12:43:49 -0400 From: Markus Vester To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-Id: <1627cf18dd8-1dd5-2abb@webjasstg-vab24.srv.aolmail.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: JAS STD X-Originating-IP: [188.194.222.230] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1522514629; bh=VqySIUffRqdh1TLUS2kLGvumLHt8RDa9U4YFzYgfzms=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=KE2EXXgbeKpySh04B4ynIlDI1C9jPPaRcVuZFngeE19n1JK7zssrbZ7ILiF+wPDN2 jAsIbW1eYVDIxDKggrwjsw4JWhbj5cwVnLCMQ88vyZ6h0E5bJWe+Qf6bzTPjUVoIya DJoLBf8qzLHCmMKbxkMkZRIQZqN59sy1HvH+eO8I= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1afd505abfbac522c0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Well done Domenico and Rob, that should probably be a new distance record for LF EbNaut. The improved time offset was surely just serendipity on my side, as I normally don't even care to calculate the starttime to better than 0.1 s. But it is surprising how very minor start time differences sometimes seem to produce significant and unpredictable differences in EbN0. I suspect that the decoder is assigning samples to symbols without interpolation (i.e. nearest-neighbour), so that pushing just one noisy sample over a symbol boundary might have an unexpectedly large effect. [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (markusvester[at]aol.com) -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: e7c02b6e85723bae4746298f7f529717 Subject: Re: LF: EbNaut March 30/31 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_12980_619305109.1522514628056" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false ------=_Part_12980_619305109.1522514628056 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well done Domenico and Rob, that should probably be a new distance record f= or LF EbNaut. The improved time offset was surely just serendipity on my side, as I norma= lly don't even care to calculate the starttime to better than 0.1 s. But it= is surprising how very minor start time differences sometimes seem to prod= uce significant and unpredictable differences in EbN0. I suspect that the d= ecoder is assigning samples to symbols without interpolation (i.e. nearest-= neighbour), so that pushing just one noisy sample over a symbol boundary mi= ght have an unexpectedly large effect. Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) =20 -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----=20 Von: Domenico IZ7SLZ An: rsgb_lf_group Verschickt: Sa, 31. Mrz 2018 18:10 Betreff: Re: LF: EbNaut March 30/31 Hello Markus, Riccardo and all, all last Riccardo's EbNaut transmissions have been copied here in JN80nu (Q= RB 630 km) by the 'autodecode' program (log attached). Thanks to your today's report Markus, i have noted the time offset (about += 0.005 s) to apply at the recordings in order to decode Rob K3RWR (QRB 7612= km) and i found only one decode at 03.00 UT of 31-03-2018 ! Very very weak signal as shown in the attached plot. phase 0 0 0 0 0 carrier phase: -4.1 deg carrier Eb/N0: -0.4 dB carrier Es/N0: -11.31 dB carrier S/N: 17.93 dB in 595.2 uHz, -14.32 dB in 1Hz, -48.30 dB in 2.5kHz elapsed 75 found rank 4467 ber 3.4762e-01 Eb/N0 -0.2 M -1.222081757e+01 ph 0 0,0,0,0 [= K3RWR_FM18QI] Setup used here: miniwhip antenna, JRC NRD-92N receiver, 10 MHz reference o= scillator with GPS NEO-8 and Program 'vlfrx-tools'. I made several attempts= to improve the report by changing -a and -t parameters of 'vtblank' but th= is seems to be the best report. Many thanks for to Rob and Riccardo for the signals and to Paul Nicholson f= or FB vlfrx-tools. 73 and best wishes for Easter ! Domenico, IZ7SLZ =20 Thanks to =20 On 31 March 2018 at 14:00, Markus Vester wrote: Again a strong signal with some error-free decodes from IW4DXW. Also found = K3RWR finally on 137490 Hz, but only once after 4:00, and another near-miss= around sunrise after 4:30 (logs attached). Rethinking my frequency suggestion, it may not be ideal to place simultaneo= us signals from both sides of the pond so near to each other. EbNaut employ= s hard-keyed phase switching both for the transmitter and for the matched f= ilter in the receive software, so keying sidebands or aliasing from a near = station may spill over an adjacent weak signal (although in principle this = could be minimized by orthogonal modulation, using identical symbol timing = for all stations, and frequencies spaced by an exact integer multiple of th= e common clockrate). But there are also other disadvantages, like noise-bla= nker induced crossmodulation and threshold increase. So in the end it may b= e better to use either separate timeslots or separate subbands, in analogy = to our TA- and Eu-QRSS slots. Best 73,=20 Markus (DF6NM) -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----=20 Von: Markus Vester An: rsgb_lf_group Verschickt: Fr, 30. Mrz 2018 23:03 Betreff: LF: EbNaut March 29/30 Last night Mar 29/30, I got excellent decodes from IW4DXW, but unfortunatel= y not a single one from K3RWR on 137490 Hz. Best 73,=20 Markus (DF6NM) ______________________________________ LF: EbNaut attempt at 137495 kHz =20 Von: Riccardo Zoli =20 An: LF Group =20 Datum: Do, 29. Mrz 2018 19:53=20 Hi LF This night, I have scheduled some transmissions every hour (start at xx:00)= . QRG: 137494.99988 8K19A CRC 20 3 sec./sym. 6 char duration: 29 min. 36 sec. Reports are welcome. All the best 73 de Riccardo IW4DXW ______________________________________ Re: LF: K3RWR LF EbNaut Trial #2 =20 Von: Rob Renoud =20 An: rsgb_lf_group =20 Datum: Do, 29. Mrz 2018 21:22=20 TU all for LF EbNaut reception reports for my 28/29 March 2018 trial of a 1= 2 char, CRC 15, 2 sec symbol 8K19 transmission. The first night results of= this format are very positive! I will transmit this format again this evening (29/30 Mar) and tomorrow (30= /31 Mar) on frequency 137.490 KHz. Reports and comments welcome. Work is starting this weekend on EbNaut RX = capability for my station. 73, Rob - K3RWR ------=_Part_12980_619305109.1522514628056 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well done Domenico and Rob, that should pro= bably be a new distance record for LF EbNaut.

The improved time offs= et was surely just serendipity on my side, as I normally don't even ca= re to calculate the starttime to better than 0.1 s. But it is surprisi= ng how very minor start time differences sometimes seem to produce sig= nificant and unpredictable differences in EbN0. I suspect that the dec= oder is assigning samples to symbols without interpolation (i.e. neare= st-neighbour), so that pushing just one noisy sample over a symbo= l boundary might have an unexpectedly large effect.

Best 7= 3,
Markus (DF6NM)  


-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: Dom= enico IZ7SLZ <iz7slz.domenico@gmail.com>
An: rsgb_lf_= group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Verschickt: Sa, = 31. Mrz 2018 18:10
Betreff: Re: LF: EbNaut March 30/31

<= div abp=3D"2802">
Hell= o Markus, Riccardo  and all,

al= l last Riccardo's EbNaut transmissions have been copied here in JN80nu (QRB= 630 km) by the 'autodecode' program (log attached).

Thanks to your today's report Markus, i have noted the tim= e offset (about +0.005 s) to apply at the recordings  in order to deco= de Rob K3RWR (QRB 7612 km) and i found only one decode at 03.00 UT of 31-03= -2018 !
Very very weak signal as shown in the attache= d plot.

phase   0  &nb= sp; 0    0    0    0
carrier phase: -4.1 deg
carrier Eb/N0: -0.4 dB
carrier Es/N0: -11.31 dB
carrier S/N: 17.93 dB i= n 595.2 uHz, -14.32 dB in 1Hz, -48.30 dB in 2.5kHz
elapsed = 75
found rank 4467 ber 3.4762e-01 Eb/N0 -0.2 M -1.222081757= e+01 ph 0 0,0,0,0 [K3RWR_FM18QI]


Setup used here: miniwhip antenna, JRC NR= D-92N receiver, 10 MHz reference oscillator with GPS NEO-8 and Program 'vlf= rx-tools'. I made several attempts to improve the report by changing -a and= -t parameters of 'vtblank' but this seems to be the best report.

Many thanks for to Rob and = Riccardo for the signals and to Paul Nicholson for FB vlfrx-tools.

73 and best wishes for E= aster !

Domenico, = IZ7SLZ  




Than= ks to 

On 31 March = 2018 at 14:00, Markus Vester <markusvester@aol.com> wrote:
Again a strong signal with some error-free decodes fr= om IW4DXW. Also found K3RWR finally on 137490 Hz, but only once after 4:00,= and another near-miss around sunrise after 4:30 (logs attached).

Rethinking my frequency suggestion, i= t may not be ideal to place simultaneous signals from both sides of the pon= d so near to each other. EbNaut employs hard-keyed phase switching both for= the transmitter and for the matched filter in the receive software, so key= ing sidebands or aliasing from a near station may spill over an adjacent we= ak signal (although in principle this could be minimized by orthogonal modu= lation, using identical symbol timing for all stations, and frequencie= s spaced by an exact integer multiple of the common clockrate). But there a= re also other disadvantages, like noise-blanker induced crossmodulation and= threshold increase. So in the end it may be better to use either separate = timeslots or separate subbands, in analogy to our TA- and Eu-QRSS slots.

Best 73,
Mark= us (DF6NM)


-----Urspr=C3= =BCngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: Markus Vester <markusvester@aol.com>
An: rsgb_lf_g= roup <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org&g= t;
Verschickt: Fr, 30. Mrz 2018 23:03
Betre= ff: LF: EbNaut March 29/30

<= div style=3D"color: black; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-si= ze: 10pt;" abp=3D"2870">

Last night Mar 29/30, I got excelle= nt decodes from IW4DXW, but unfortunately not a single one from K3RWR on 13= 7490 Hz.

Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
______________________________________
LF: EbNaut attempt at 137495 kHz 
Von: Ricc= ardo Zoli <riccardozoli80@gmail.com> =
An: LF Group <rsgb_lf_g= roup@blacksheep.org>
Datum: Do, 29. Mrz 2018 19:53 =

Hi LF

This night, I have scheduled s= ome transmissions every hour (start at xx:00).

QRG: 1374= 94.99988
8K19A
CRC 20
3 sec= ./sym.
6 char
duration: 29 min. 36 sec.

=

Reports are welcome.

All the best

73 de Riccardo IW4DXW
________________________= ______________
Re: LF: K3RWR LF EbNaut Tr= ial #2 
Von: Rob Renoud <k3rwr@md.metrocast.net>
An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Datum: Do, 29. Mrz 2018 21:22

TU all for LF EbNa= ut reception reports for my 28/29 March 2018 trial of a 12 char, CRC 15, 2 = sec symbol 8K19 transmission.  The first night results of this format = are very positive!

I will transmit this format again thi= s evening (29/30 Mar) and tomorrow (30/31 Mar) on frequency 137.490 KHz.

Reports and comments welcome.   Work is starting= this weekend on EbNaut RX capability for my station.

73= ,
Rob - K3RWR




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