Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w2MNEbSS005643 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2018 00:14:39 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1ez90w-0006iL-Eb for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2018 22:48:54 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1ez90v-0006iC-Nr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2018 22:48:53 +0000 Received: from omr-a009e.mx.aol.com ([204.29.186.49]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1ez90r-0004Q9-Ax for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2018 22:48:52 +0000 Received: from mtaomg-aao02.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-aao02.mx.aol.com [172.27.21.16]) by omr-a009e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id DCABF38000B0 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2018 18:48:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-ace06e.mail.aol.com (core-ace06.mail.aol.com [172.27.23.6]) by mtaomg-aao02.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 5A64938000086 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2018 18:48:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 188.194.222.230 by webjas-vab181.srv.aolmail.net (10.96.18.184) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 22 Mar 2018 18:48:44 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 18:48:46 -0400 From: Markus Vester To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-Id: <1624fe66e2f-c89-2f97@webjas-vab181.srv.aolmail.net> In-Reply-To: <43A27B71-3D0B-4080-9A82-A5AC340873FE@md.metrocast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: JAS STD X-Originating-IP: [188.194.222.230] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1521758927; bh=naXDHsmWC8URhWzd0LbptG5gyrgtbVZ1TXZllfzw4Pk=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=NN4kX2hljOOssO9SUivb+kN7t5nsOMc/A4+eAaHk3tYIhypqQR61VZWesHBHaFe2e eh7Uj20/xajM3QN+F+buq5gXUotIbPLLPiD7ZpKX2C8oltblDGci0AKfnzk+HZjWho m6y3NCAEhlQ9FegouwlHDTlrOkJUikMtmPmCzFIA= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1b15105ab432cf24c2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Rob, if you decided to go somewhere between 137445 and 137555 Hz we could pick it up here using the already running SpecLab instances for opds. 73, Markus (DF6NM) [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (markusvester[at]aol.com) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: d186a3cb540ae631597f163017de1e53 Subject: Re: LF: 2200m Trans-Atlantic QSO dream... Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_16282_1414731430.1521758924334" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false ------=_Part_16282_1414731430.1521758924334 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Rob, if you decided to go somewhere between 137445 and 137555 Hz we could pick i= t up here using the already running SpecLab instances for opds. 73, Markus (DF6NM)=20 -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----=20 Von: Rob Renoud An: rsgb_lf_group Verschickt: Do, 22. Mrz 2018 23:45 Betreff: Re: LF: 2200m Trans-Atlantic QSO dream... Stefan, As this is an amateur radio transmission, the minimum message should be my = 5 character amateur call sign, k3rwr. Your suggestion in a previous post was 1/8K=3D19 Coding; CRC 24, 3 sec Per= iod with a resulting transmission period of 28:48. Is this still good even= though the 3 sec period may be a bit longer than is optimum for 2200m. An= y other suggestions? I will transmit on 137.395 KHz with 1W EIRP. Transmissions will start once= I reconfigure the TX hardware and verify that the EbNaut signal is being p= roperly modulated and transmitted. I will post when the station is up and = operating. Tnx & 73, Rob - K3RWR On Mar 22, 2018, at 17:35, DK7FC wrote: Hi Rob,=20 Indeed, i have a suggestion. If you can transmit EbNaut messages, then let= 's try if it works. My RX is not overloaded any more. Due to the high QRN i= gave up with the 17 kHz TA attempt . Last night i copied N1BUG in DFCW-60,= maybe 10 dB in 22 mHz in the best times.=20 If you could run a beacon transmission, repeating each 30 minutes, using t= hese settings: http://abelian.org/ebnaut/calc.php?sndb=3D10&snbws=3D0.022&s= nmps=3D&code=3D16K21&sp=3D2&crc=3D18&nc=3D3&submit=3DCalculate with a content that makes some sense (like 'YES' rather than 'T.4'), then = i would try to decode you. 73, Stefan Am 20.03.2018 12:17, schrieb Rob Renoud:=20 Hi LF=E2=80=99ers, My LF station TX and RX hardware support EbNaut requirements and I currentl= y have EbNaut TX capability implemented and tested into a dummy load. Am w= orking to implement EbNaut RX software and decode capability. Expect it wi= ll be several weeks before that capability is functional and tested as I=E2= =80=99m still learning what is required and how to implement it. I do agree that EbNaut is most excellent for experimentation and possibly Q= SOs on LF. I believe the LF community should formulate an initial signal c= onfiguration for development and testing and one that will possibly support= minimum QSO requirements as well. I am not smart enough about EbNaut at t= his point to offer any suggestions or make any recommendations about signal= configurations. I am also available to put a EbNaut signal at 1W EIRP on LF from my QTH at = FM18qi while I continue implementing full EbNaut RX and decode capability. All ideas, suggestions and recommendations welcome! 73, Rob - K3RWR On Mar 20, 2018, at 05:08, VIGILANT Luis Fern=C3=A1ndez = wrote: #AOLMsgPart_2_770edc7f-6188-44f0-9b40-c3fddf50b569 td{color: black;} @font-= face {font-family:Wingdings; panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}@font-face {font= -family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}@font-face {font-fami= ly:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}.aolReplacedBody p.aolmail_MsoNo= rmal,.aolReplacedBody li.aolmail_MsoNormal,.aolReplacedBody div.aolmail_Mso= Normal {margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"T= imes New Roman",serif;}.aolReplacedBody a:link,.aolReplacedBody span.aolmai= l_MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underlin= e;}.aolReplacedBody a:visited,.aolReplacedBody span.aolmail_MsoHyperlinkFol= lowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;}.aol= ReplacedBody span.aolmail_EstiloCorreo17 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; fo= nt-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D;}.aolReplacedBody .aolmail_Ms= oChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; = mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}@page WordSection1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margi= n:70.85pt 3.0cm 70.85pt 3.0cm;}.aolReplacedBody div.aolmail_WordSection1 {p= age:WordSection1;}=20 Hi Domenico, LF =20 I agree with you that EbNaut is the way to go for DX in LF. And QSOs can be= made using short symbol durations at least equal to a long QRSS mode Would be interesting if you recall the modes and time windows involved in t= hat QSOs that took place in LF =20 But (at least muy experience, for a dummy and NON Lynux user) the different= software packages needed and the lack of clear descriptions on how to setup all the switches is a BIG problem and scares most OMs. The reward is = to gain a LOT of dBs using the same station setup. So it really worths the = effort =20 >> Of course, i'm also at disposal to put on air a small EbNaut signal on L= F from my locator JN80nu =20 Please do it. Would be very important to get your EbNaut transmissions in L= F as a reference. Specially to check if one can do it with an stable receiv= er but not GPSDO disciplined. This last step is complicated for many receivers= and not easy for many OMs. I=E2=80=99m using Perseus SDR which needs a GPS= DO at 88MHz, but the existing TCXO looks very stable and think would work just de= termining the QRG shift and compensating for that =20 >>I believe that using EbNaut on LF (i.e. dealing with more robust signals = than VLF) can be a very good training for acquiring the skill necessary to = use EbNaut on VLF. Absolutely agree ! J =20 73 de Luis EA5DOM =20 De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshe= ep.org] En nombre de Domenico IZ7SLZ Enviado el: martes, 20 de marzo de 2018 0:17 Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Asunto: Re: [english 100%] Re: LF: 2200m Trans-Atlantic QSO dream... =20 Hi LF'ers i suggest to the operators that are looking for any kind of ancient softwar= e for a T/A two-way contact, to have a look at EbNaut. EbNaut is a bpsk mode with FEC designed by Paul Nicholson for the VLF world= .=20 But two years ago some EbNaut QSO's took place on LF between EU stations u= sing short symbol durations. Signals from VO1NA have been nicely decoded ev= en in Italy and also=20 a signal from DF6NM and IW4DXW have been decoded at VO1NA (without having a= disciplinated oscillator at RX side). See Paul Nicholson's Log: http://abelian.org/vlf/amateur-radio/ So, i think that a two-way QSO is possibile with EbNaut even in this comi= ng Spring. For starting this FB mode, it is necessary, as first step, to achieve a go= od frequency precision with the RTX radios. This, sometime, can be easly a= chieved by building some reference oscillators that use cheap GPS solutions= . Here, i've built a 10 MHz reference oscillator with a PLL locked with a 10 = kHz coming from a GPS. This 10 MHz reference signal goes to my RX and to t= he Exciter. Some 'scrapped' 10 MHz /GPS reference oscillators are on the ma= rket and easy to found. Then you have to deal with different softwares. For Windows' users, we can use Paul Nicholson's EbNaut-tx and EbNaut-rx tog= ether with other necessary programs as SpectrumLab and the DF6NM's tools. But if you are using Linux (Ubuntu,...) , then 'vlfrx-tools' is the only = fb suite needed for managing EbNaut Linux native program.=20 This mode is not well documented. Some EbNauters already wrote useful instr= uctions. But i think that 'live' assistance on this mail reflector can help= more: Questions from who is trying to use EbNaut and the answers from the = Group can be more useful. =20 So i'm at disposal if some operator wants to try this mode. Some month ago i have built-up a program for auto-decoding EbNaut transmis= sions scheduled at certain time and frequencies (see the log on http://www= .qsl.net/i/iz7slz/EBNAUT/DECODED.TXT) This setup can be again on-line if needed, also with different settings. Of course, i'm also at disposal to put on air a small EbNaut signal on LF f= rom my locator JN80nu. I believe that using EbNaut on LF (i.e. dealing with more robust signals th= an VLF) can be a very good training for acquiring the skill necessary to us= e EbNaut on VLF. 73, Domenico IZ7SLZ ------=_Part_16282_1414731430.1521758924334 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Rob,

if you decided to g= o somewhere between 137445 and 137555 Hz we could pick it up here usin= g the already running SpecLab instances for opds.

73, Markus (DF6NM)=  


-----Urspr=C3=BCnglic= he Mitteilung-----
Von: Rob Renoud <k3rwr@md.metrocast.n= et>
An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>= ;
Verschickt: Do, 22. Mrz 2018 23:45
Betreff:= Re: LF: 2200m Trans-Atlantic QSO dream...

<= /div>
Stefan,

As this is an amateur radio transmission, the minimum messag= e should be my 5 character amateur call sign, k3rwr.
=
Your  suggestion in a previous = post was 1/8K=3D19 Coding; CRC 24, 3 sec Period with a resulting transmissi= on period of 28:48.  Is this still good even though the 3 sec period m= ay be a bit longer than is optimum for 2200m.  Any other suggestions?<= /div>

I will transmi= t on 137.395 KHz with 1W EIRP.  Transmissions will start once I reconf= igure the TX hardware and verify that the EbNaut signal is being properly m= odulated and transmitted.  I will post when the station is up and oper= ating.

Tnx &am= p; 73,
Rob - K3RWR



On Mar 22, 2018, at 17:35, DK7FC <selb= erdenken@posteo.de> wrote:

=20 Hi Rob,

Indeed, i have a suggestion. If you can transmit EbNaut messages, then let's try if it works. My RX is not overloaded any more. Due to the high QRN i gave up with the 17 kHz TA attempt . Last night i copied N1BUG in DFCW-60, maybe 10 dB in 22 mHz in the best times.
If you could run a beacon transmission, repeating each 30 minutes, using these settings: http://abelian.org/ebnaut/calc.php?snd= b=3D10&snbws=3D0.022&snmps=3D&code=3D16K21&sp=3D2&crc= =3D18&nc=3D3&submit=3DCalculate
with a content that makes some sense (like 'YES' rather than 'T.4'), then i would try to decode you.

73, Stefan


Am 20.03.2018 12:17, schrieb Rob Renoud:
=20
Hi LF=E2=80=99ers,

My LF station TX and RX hardware support EbNaut requirem= ents and I currently have EbNaut TX capability implemented and tested into a dummy load.  Am working to implement EbNaut RX software and decode capability.  Expect it will be several weeks before that capability is functional and tested as I=E2=80=99m still learning what is required and ho= w to implement it.

I do agree that EbNaut is most excellent for experimenta= tion and possibly QSOs on LF.  I believe the LF community should formulate an initial signal configuration for development and testing and one that will possibly support minimum QSO requirements as well.  I am not smar= t enough about EbNaut at this point to offer any suggestions or make any recommendations about signal configurations.

I am also available to put a EbNaut signal at 1W EIRP on= LF from my QTH at FM18qi while I continue implementing full EbNaut RX and decode capability.

All ideas, suggestions and recommendations welcome!

73,
Rob - K3RWR


On Mar 20, 2018, at 05:08, VIGILANT Luis Fern=C3=A1ndez <luis@vigilant.es> wrote:

=20 =20

Hi Domenico, LF

 

I agree with you that EbNaut is the way to go for DX in LF. And QSOs can be made using short symbol durations at least equal to a long QRSS mode

Would be interesting if you recall the modes and time windows involved in that QSOs that took place in LF

 

But (at least muy experience, for a dummy and NON Lynux user) the different software packages needed and the lack of clear descriptions on how to

setup all the switches is a BIG problem and scares most OMs. The reward is to gain a LOT of dBs using the same station setup. So it really worths the effort

 

>> Of cour= se, i'm also at disposal to put on air a small EbNaut signal on LF from my locator JN80nu

 

Please do it. Would be very important to get your EbNaut transmissions in LF as a reference. Specially to check if one can do it with an stable receiver

but not GPSDO disciplined. This last step is complicated for many receivers and not easy for many OMs. I=E2=80=99m using Perseus SDR which needs a GPSDO at

88MHz, but the existing TCXO looks very stable and think would work just determining the QRG shift and compensating for that<= /p>

 

>>I believe that using EbNaut on LF (i.e. dealing with more robust signals than VLF) can be a very good training for acquiring the skill necessary to use EbNaut on VLF.

Absolutely agree ! J

 

73 de Luis

EA5DOM

 

De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@bla= cksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep= .org] En nombre de Domenico IZ7SLZ
Enviado el: martes, 20 de marzo de 2018 0:17
Para: rsgb_lf_group@b= lacksheep.org
Asunto: Re: [english 100%] Re: LF: 2200m Trans-Atlan= tic QSO dream...

 

Hi LF'ers

i suggest to the operators t= hat are looking for any kind of ancient software for a T/A two-way contact, to have a look at

EbNaut.

EbNaut is a bpsk mode with F= EC designed by Paul Nicholson for the VLF world.
But two years ago some EbNaut QSO's took place on LF between EU stations using short symbol durations. Signals from VO1NA have been nicely decoded even in Italy and also

a signal from DF6NM and IW4DXW have been decoded at VO1NA (without having a disciplinated oscillator at RX side).

See Paul Nicholson's Log:  http://abelian.org/vlf/amateur-radio/

So, i think that  a two-way QSO is possibile with EbNaut even in this coming Spring.

For starting this FB mode, it is necessary, as first step,  to achieve a good frequency precision with the RTX radios. This, sometime,  can be easly achieved by building some reference oscillators that use cheap GPS solutions.

Here, i've built a 10 MHz re= ference oscillator with a PLL locked with a 10 kHz coming from a GPS. This 10 MHz  reference signal goes to my RX and to the Exciter. Some 'scrapped' 10 MHz /GPS reference oscillators are on the market and easy to found.


Then you have to deal with different softwares.

For Windows' users, we can use Paul Nicholson's EbNaut-tx and EbNaut-rx together with other necessary programs as SpectrumLab and the DF6NM's tools.
But if you are using Linux (Ubuntu,...) , then  'vlfrx-tools' is the only fb suite needed for managing EbNaut Linux native program.

This mode is not well docume= nted. Some EbNauters already wrote useful instructions. But i think that 'live' assistance on this mail reflector can help more: Questions from who is trying to use EbNaut and the answers from the Group can be more useful.

 

So i'm at disposal if some operator wants to try this mode.

Some month ago i have built-up a program for  auto-decoding EbNaut transmissions scheduled at certain time and frequencies (see the log on  http://www.qsl.net/i/iz7slz/E= BNAUT/DECODED.TXT)

This setup can be again on-line if needed, also with different settings.

Of course, i'm also at disposal to put on air a small EbNaut signal on LF from my locator JN80nu.

I believe that using EbNaut on LF (i.e. dealing with more robust signals than VLF) can be a very good training for acquiring the skill necessary to use EbNaut on VLF.

73, Domenico IZ7SLZ

 

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