Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w15EJrjQ014957 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 15:19:56 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1eihX3-0006xv-6P for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2018 14:14:05 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1eihX1-0006xm-Sa for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2018 14:14:03 +0000 Received: from mail-pg0-x231.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c05::231]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eihWy-0008Vr-2R for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2018 14:14:02 +0000 Received: by mail-pg0-x231.google.com with SMTP id 141so8012242pgd.8 for ; Mon, 05 Feb 2018 06:13:59 -0800 (PST) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=gmail.com Result=Good and Known Domain DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=0vI3ZVH1SC+KenSdYKTHYXHtTa4ja51jFMXX2OB9BHk=; b=bLWXyaHRh2ryE30BxD0Cybojm5XuQ7Kky4KX9LhUN2+zS/Z3pBDr62pOT+0Dsfdjhl Xu7jCmzM0MpYd4lqEOz2BGJOCJlffcKbnxRbqOTeCAIzPS2IYjgiaMeX1dfQk5krOAvq anKhH+0djTTBuYi6Z1NkwwjBlRF8Q+NUNFHD+SXtGb0Gu+S6QkrrcFHSCt9zuAUS88ML LJ1pcCu3fvrHQNdKV4uBSBIqZvf/UHeAKtKQd9pRUbXZFwNILCOnEpx6ZibFyXYpfWQi k06X+lU0QuNJAvE32/tf96vMMH6KfF03yJZ4t+Vuuc3GMf9tzP/MbSyiEjRF2snsv+Pl CadQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=0vI3ZVH1SC+KenSdYKTHYXHtTa4ja51jFMXX2OB9BHk=; b=Tue1HKwZYlzKD4qJgI4eFPc3C5HdkTanqIvxOC8DoHIEM6yyhLdDZ+i2F4UD4hn40x Q9k4SCwZoOvjk2kfG6WpAdb/07M8DgFpTNgXPeFrIGrYgOsQ6aE+Xt1w5GUZyEWYfpQH 8UVjexj/AG6EXgdDF498qGVZhJVYNkIJY+6xcQ1d1pLi14vqv3TDVmSxE1D3E84efnc7 EvZSrbYOBsod83QsSKPS6yCY5SLrgvsrdfClt+e5Ybtk/K1tQ+qXMaw2f7iezXNEcfnN JwTmsu+TgCzdrxXKhxlhIACCXWpIYqNK0DIvpEi107DjLZmXQRDcpTLxPgC59TGwjs3V Jh6Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytfvCKCNQ53WYA069jOyqnZDMrVk26kwrUHF5OsICVPK9gRxxcMp 66g8sqeWibRbOirnV7UT84dNhLWn1pzaCNsqHTo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x227vV2DNAJZ2EAFeLmsmGTnsLjpyki7X/LYzdSiJ6wiS8ZjEn2KVNfX+wgn5StsKEo+YVxSNuqxs2Sdb69wvp+g= X-Received: by 10.101.101.144 with SMTP id u16mr37501650pgv.73.1517840037481; Mon, 05 Feb 2018 06:13:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.224.137 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 06:13:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.224.137 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 06:13:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB9AB485D3@servigilant.vigilant.local> <5A7377F7.4050802@posteo.de> <017101d39bab$2f0e3710$8d2aa530$@comcast.net> <23159F1ED5BD49AD9654CE5685AFACF6@Clemens0811> <5A75EA08.9090009@posteo.de> <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB9AB4958F@servigilant.vigilant.local> From: Juan Leandro Ronda Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 15:13:56 +0100 Message-ID: To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: I have to say that I am also lacking in theory, but the tests carried out on airborne and core coils have been successful and are working. The most relevant loop antenna has been an octagon-shaped loop, formed by 22mm diameter copper pipe of 1mm thickness, equivalent to 66mm square, forming a surface of 1m square. As seen in the attached diagram, I put in resonance by LC series (38400Hz) giving close to 100A, which in turn gives a magnetic moment of 100A per square meter. I verify that in the center of the octagon I am condensing enough the magnetic flux, knowing that it is very difficult to saturate the air. In summer I get to notice heating of the pipe. If I bring a euro coin to the pipe, it heats up and diverts the antenna's resonance. Then I was forced to reduce the volume of the antenna for comfortable use in underground cavities. I had to resort to using cores to keep an effective area as large as possible. I tried what I had at hand, the coils of the TV deflection coils and I observed good operation, I also circulated a large amperage for it, giving rise to the development of a new transmitter for radiolocation, it is the Summer, published in the CREG JOURNAL nº99 " of the BCRA. I have always wanted to use the power through low voltage and a lot of amperage, which will translate into great magnetic moment. It is necessary to use few loops in the loop, with a large section of the conductor and a high magnetic permeability core to increase the effective area. I also intend to minimize the tensions in the resonant circuit, there are partners who can suffer electrocution risk, since the equipment works at one hundred percent humidity and other times submerged. So far I have changed the cores of the air antennas for ferrites, and now I would like to use mu-metal that has very high magnetic permeability. I see hard to get that material. I have seen that they manufacture rods of several cm in diameter. It would be interesting to contact the manufacturer and ask for samples, if someone sees it feasible to say [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (juanleronda[at]gmail.com) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: df2e2c1e83972f6e42eeb17d78e70347 Subject: Re: LF: VLF Small magnetic antenna for Tx Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e08253fa04293c9056477acfc" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false --089e08253fa04293c9056477acfc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have to say that I am also lacking in theory, but the tests carried out on airborne and core coils have been successful and are working. The most relevant loop antenna has been an octagon-shaped loop, formed by 22mm diameter copper pipe of 1mm thickness, equivalent to 66mm square, forming a surface of 1m square. As seen in the attached diagram, I put in resonance by LC series (38400Hz) giving close to 100A, which in turn gives a magnetic moment of 100A per square meter. I verify that in the center of the octagon I am condensing enough the magnetic flux, knowing that it is very difficult to saturate the air. In summer I get to notice heating of the pipe. If I bring a euro coin to the pipe, it heats up and diverts the antenna's resonance. Then I was forced to reduce the volume of the antenna for comfortable use in underground cavities. I had to resort to using cores to keep an effective area as large as possible. I tried what I had at hand, the coils of the TV deflection coils and I observed good operation, I also circulated a large amperage for it, giving rise to the development of a new transmitter for radiolocation, it is the Summer, published in the CREG JOURNAL n=C2=BA99 " of the BCRA. I have always wanted to use the power through low voltage and a lot of amperage, which will translate into great magnetic moment. It is necessary to use few loops in the loop, with a large section of the conductor and a high magnetic permeability core to increase the effective area. I also intend to minimize the tensions in the resonant circuit, there are partners who can suffer electrocution risk, since the equipment works at one hundred percent humidity and other times submerged. So far I have changed the cores of the air antennas for ferrites, and now I would like to use mu-metal that has very high magnetic permeability. I see hard to get that material. I have seen that they manufacture rods of several cm in diameter. It would be interesting to contact the manufacturer and ask for samples, if someone sees it feasible to say something about it. I have always worked in the near field for the use of radiolocation, and speaking with Luis EA5DOM, we discussed the effectiveness of using the electric field or the magnetic field with air, knowing that it is the magnetic that crosses the rocky pack more easily . I appreciate the comments on this part by this group. https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=3D1V4K2T2e3ActVqPaHr1xXLcjBkD16NtGB Regards Juan Leandro El 4 feb. 2018 8:35 p. m., "Juan Leandro Ronda" escribi=C3=B3: > I have to say that I am also lacking in theory, but the tests carried > out on airborne and core coils have been successful and are working. > The most relevant loop antenna has been an octagon-shaped loop, formed by > 22mm diameter copper pipe of 1mm thickness, equivalent to 66mm square, > forming a surface of 1m square. As seen in the attached diagram, I put in > resonance by LC series (38400Hz) giving close to 100A, which in turn give= s > a magnetic moment of 100A per square meter. I verify that in the center o= f > the octagon I am condensing enough the magnetic flux, knowing that it is > very difficult to saturate the air. In summer I get to notice heating of > the pipe. If I bring a euro coin to the pipe, it heats up and diverts the > antenna's resonance. > Then I was forced to reduce the volume of the antenna for comfortable use > in underground cavities. I had to resort to using cores to keep an > effective area as large as possible. I tried what I had at hand, the coil= s > of the TV deflection coils and I observed good operation, I also circulat= ed > a large amperage for it, giving rise to the development of a new > transmitter for radiolocation, it is the Summer, published in the CREG > JOURNAL n=C2=BA99 " of the BCRA. > I have always wanted to use the power through low voltage and a lot of > amperage, which will translate into great magnetic moment. It is necessar= y > to use few loops in the loop, with a large section of the conductor and a > high magnetic permeability core to increase the effective area. I also > intend to minimize the tensions in the resonant circuit, there are partne= rs > who can suffer electrocution risk, since the equipment works at one hundr= ed > percent humidity and other times submerged. > So far I have changed the cores of the air antennas for ferrites, and now > I would like to use mu-metal that has very high magnetic permeability. I > see hard to get that material. I have seen that they manufacture rods of > several cm in diameter. It would be interesting to contact the manufactur= er > and ask for samples, if someone sees it feasible to say something about i= t. > I have always worked in the near field for the use of radiolocation, and > speaking with Luis EA5DOM, we discussed the effectiveness of using the > electric field or the magnetic field with air, knowing that it is the > magnetic that crosses the rocky pack more easily . I appreciate the > comments on this part by this group. > > Regards > Juan Leandro > > > El 3 feb. 2018 21:35, "Jacek Lipkowski" escribi=C3= =B3: > > On Sat, 3 Feb 2018, VIGILANT Luis Fern=C3=A1ndez wrote: > > Jacek, you mentioned what I was midnight oiling here >> " If you want some semi-DX in the H-field, then try coupling into some >> long >> conductors (pipes, power lines, railway tracks etc)" >> > > And i forgot phone lines :) > > Actually there has been a 700m phone line, that was well grounded at the > phone exchange (old exchange, no local modules were used, so the wire wen= t > all the way there). This makes a nice ground dipole when a transmitter is > placed between the local ground and the grounded wire from the phone line= . > Putting abt. 30mA at 8.97kHz (this was when 9kHz was the ITU limit) gave= a > very nice signal 600-700m from the phone line. > > > What about coupling the loop to my 90m vertical ? >> Adding another transformer from loop to vertical or just winding some >> coils of the vertical over the >> small loop ring would work ? >> > > No, because the amount of current induced in the mast would be very small= . > > BTW i wish i had a 90m vertical. > > > VY 73 > > Jacek / SQ5BPF > > > --089e08253fa04293c9056477acfc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I have to say that I am also lacking in theory, bu= t the tests carried out on airborne and core coils have been successful and= are working.
The most relevant loop antenna has been an octagon-shaped loop,= formed by 22mm diameter copper pipe of 1mm thickness, equivalent to 66mm s= quare, forming a surface of 1m square. As seen in the attached diagram, I p= ut in resonance by LC series (38400Hz) giving close to 100A, which in turn = gives a magnetic moment of 100A per square meter. I verify that in the cent= er of the octagon I am condensing enough the magnetic flux, knowing that it= is very difficult to saturate the air. In summer I get to notice heating o= f the pipe. If I bring a euro coin to the pipe, it heats up and diverts the= antenna's resonance.
Then I was forced to reduce the volume of the anten= na for comfortable use in underground cavities. I had to resort to using co= res to keep an effective area as large as possible. I tried what I had at h= and, the coils of the TV deflection coils and I observed good operation, I = also circulated a large amperage for it, giving rise to the development of = a new transmitter for radiolocation, it is the Summer, published in the CRE= G JOURNAL n=C2=BA99 " of the BCRA.
I have always wanted to use the power= through low voltage and a lot of amperage, which will translate into great= magnetic moment. It is necessary to use few loops in the loop, with a larg= e section of the conductor and a high magnetic permeability core to increas= e the effective area. I also intend to minimize the tensions in the resonan= t circuit, there are partners who can suffer electrocution risk, since the = equipment works at one hundred percent humidity and other times submerged.<= /div>
So= far I have changed the cores of the air antennas for ferrites, and now I w= ould like to use mu-metal that has very high magnetic permeability. I see h= ard to get that material. I have seen that they manufacture rods of several= cm in diameter. It would be interesting to contact the manufacturer and as= k for samples, if someone sees it feasible to say something about it.
=
I have = always worked in the near field for the use of radiolocation, and speaking = with Luis EA5DOM, we discussed the effectiveness of using the electric fiel= d or the magnetic field with air, knowing that it is the magnetic that cros= ses the rocky pack more easily . I appreciate the comments on this part by = this group.


=

Rega= rds
Juan Leandro

El 4 feb. 2018 8:35 p. m., "Ju= an Leandro Ronda" <juanler= onda@gmail.com> escribi=C3=B3:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I = have to say that I am also lacking in theory, but the tests carried out on = airborne and core coils have been successful and are working.
The most relevant loop antenna has been an octagon-shaped loop, f= ormed by 22mm diameter copper pipe of 1mm thickness, equivalent to 66mm squ= are, forming a surface of 1m square. As seen in the attached diagram, I put= in resonance by LC series (38400Hz) giving close to 100A, which in turn gi= ves a magnetic moment of 100A per square meter. I verify that in the center= of the octagon I am condensing enough the magnetic flux, knowing that it i= s very difficult to saturate the air. In summer I get to notice heating of = the pipe. If I bring a euro coin to the pipe, it heats up and diverts the a= ntenna's resonance.
Then I was forced to reduce = the volume of the antenna for comfortable use in underground cavities. I ha= d to resort to using cores to keep an effective area as large as possible. = I tried what I had at hand, the coils of the TV deflection coils and I obse= rved good operation, I also circulated a large amperage for it, giving rise= to the development of a new transmitter for radiolocation, it is the Summe= r, published in the CREG JOURNAL n=C2=BA99 " of the BCRA.
I have always wanted to use the power through low voltage and a = lot of amperage, which will translate into great magnetic moment. It is nec= essary to use few loops in the loop, with a large section of the conductor = and a high magnetic permeability core to increase the effective area. I als= o intend to minimize the tensions in the resonant circuit, there are partne= rs who can suffer electrocution risk, since the equipment works at one hund= red percent humidity and other times submerged.
So f= ar I have changed the cores of the air antennas for ferrites, and now I wou= ld like to use mu-metal that has very high magnetic permeability. I see har= d to get that material. I have seen that they manufacture rods of several c= m in diameter. It would be interesting to contact the manufacturer and ask = for samples, if someone sees it feasible to say something about it.
I have always worked in the near field for the use of radio= location, and speaking with Luis EA5DOM, we discussed the effectiveness of = using the electric field or the magnetic field with air, knowing that it is= the magnetic that crosses the rocky pack more easily . I appreciate the co= mments on this part by this group.

Regards
Juan Leandro


El 3 feb. 2018 21:35, "= ;Jacek Lipkowski" <sq5bpf@lipkowski.org> escribi=C3=B3:
On Sat, 3 Feb 2018, VIGILANT Luis Fern=C3=A1ndez wr= ote:

Jacek, you mentioned what I was midnight oiling here
" If you want some semi-DX in the H-field, then try coupling into some= long
conductors (pipes, power lines, railway tracks etc)"

And i forgot phone lines :)

Actually there has been a 700m phone line, that was well grounded at the ph= one exchange (old exchange, no local modules were used, so the wire went al= l the way there). This makes a nice ground dipole when a transmitter is pla= ced between the local ground and the grounded wire from the phone line. Put= ting abt.=C2=A0 30mA at 8.97kHz (this was when 9kHz was the ITU limit) gave= a very nice signal 600-700m from the phone line.


What about coupling the loop to my 90m vertical ?
Adding another transformer from loop to vertical or just winding some coils= of the vertical over the
small loop ring would work ?

No, because the amount of current induced in the mast would be very small.<= br>
BTW i wish i had a 90m vertical.


VY 73

Jacek / SQ5BPF

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