Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w1LAmshe012846 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2018 11:48:57 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1eoRmZ-0006FP-EJ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2018 10:37:51 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1eoRmY-0006FG-OU for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2018 10:37:50 +0000 Received: from porthos.netcom.co.uk ([217.72.171.73]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eoRmV-0001UP-NA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2018 10:37:49 +0000 X-DKIM-Result: Domain=abelian.org Result=Signature OK DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=abelian.org ; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To: MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:From:References:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Jb34QZmOWIxMVpM3ASanDl20SMLDVe8FMjIYm9LW64c=; b=3qUVJRIdWAgdhiGa/fhJ4YQDpb CvAoleNyL8wwIxBGXRLCqbinV4cfH34d0tPef2NjzYci4P3+2FUE9j8hfYdhp8uJpO+uU3M4fccEs V6MgVFN+iZyR5I8bZV3RU3WbFLQweDqqln/SSL4bhU2hSJ9tSzHmexZtoZySc1QsvGb8=; Received: from i-194-106-52-83.freedom2surf.net ([194.106.52.83]:56185 helo=pn.abelian.org) by porthos.netcom.co.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89_1) (envelope-from ) id 1eoRmT-0001aY-1F for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2018 10:37:45 +0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pn.abelian.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73737400468 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2018 10:37:44 +0000 (UTC) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <161af073fa5-c86-13005@webjas-vac009.srv.aolmail.net> <5A8B064D.9020003@posteo.de> <291109837.20180219235650@gmail.com> <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB9AB6038E@servigilant.vigilant.local> From: Paul Nicholson Message-ID: <81ecbc9b-c7a2-d016-fd8b-5d44610b3566@abelian.org> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 10:37:44 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB9AB6038E@servigilant.vigilant.local> Content-Language: en-US X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - porthos.netcom.co.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - blacksheep.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - abelian.org X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: porthos.netcom.co.uk: authenticated_id: catchall@abelian.org X-Authenticated-Sender: porthos.netcom.co.uk: catchall@abelian.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Jay W1VD wrote: > a successful decode of Stefan's message was made on last night's > transmission. s/n in 39 uHz 10.5 dB and Eb/N0 2.54 dB. It was > pretty convincing as the decode popped up in the 0,0,0,0 phase > trial and only improved thereafter. [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 61577e2058c0d3bf1737d7de6ed6eb16 Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC > W1VD 8.27 kHz EbN0 success! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Jay W1VD wrote: > a successful decode of Stefan's message was made on last night's > transmission. s/n in 39 uHz 10.5 dB and Eb/N0 2.54 dB. It was > pretty convincing as the decode popped up in the 0,0,0,0 phase > trial and only improved thereafter. I ran the path through LWPC, 8270Hz anisotropy comes out at 10dB. For, say, 20uW ERP at Heidelberg LPWC predicts about 4nV.M E-field at W1VD. The nighttime noise on a quiet night can be around 2nV/m in this bandwidth, so 10.5 dB S/N is within reach given a few dB of luck. I ran simulations with ebnaut decoder at this code setting. With just noise on the decoder input, after 108 trials with full phase search and 4e6 list length I had two false detections of the 'T' message, rank 510624 Eb/N0 -6.4 dB rank 380976 Eb/N0 -5.5 dB With a weak input signal (a carrier or some other message) at about the -5dB Eb/N0 level, false decodes are more likely and tend to be stronger. After 260 trials I got 7 false decodes of a 'T' messages - the strongest was rank 230167 Eb/N0 +1.9 dB In the same run, I got 52 correct decodes of the -5dB Eb/N0 test message - a 20% success rate. Jay wrote: > It was pretty convincing as the decode popped up in the 0,0,0,0 > phase trial That's a good sign. It means the average S/N was sufficient to extract a useful reference phase. So I think that a result with Eb/N0 +2.5 dB and rank 31465 is very likely to be valid but was lucky. The list rank is typical for that Eb/N0 when using a large CRC with short message. With the estimated signal strength and not relying on luck it would take 3-axis reception and probably a few days of stacking to have a reasonable chance of a decode as good as this. Hopefully there will be a decode with stacking the 2-char message. Even if it doesn't decode, we should see some repeatable phase when testing the correlation. I make the path 6096.4 km. No decode from Forest at 6818 km, the best nights for correlation at Forest were 12/13 Eb/N0 -4.5 dB phase 51.7 18/19 Eb/N0 -6.3 dB phase 81.3 The extra 700km of land path to Forest is making a difference here. Congratulations to Jay and Stefan for achieving this long awaited milestone. At VLF it is always worth trying the almost impossible! Hopefully further experiments will strengthen this result. -- Paul Nicholson --