Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w0OE9Mau000605 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 15:09:23 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1eeLbW-0007U6-L7 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 14:00:42 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1eeLbV-0007Tx-T1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 14:00:41 +0000 Received: from mail-oi0-x231.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c06::231]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eeLbO-0005Sm-SG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 14:00:40 +0000 Received: by mail-oi0-x231.google.com with SMTP id a28so2866223oiy.12 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 06:00:33 -0800 (PST) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=gmail.com Result=Good and Known Domain DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=gf2pZYRHi6gN1qFx5zg5bZFrlTknQi8D2IWrgct6ecI=; b=S5BH1F1zKCuXE89Xp3VtB8gkE/jO5KWUOU2vCmoZa9PB+jLE6bJAdo8GWj68v75CQd noPI/74yOpZGcrFsPLvILcIb5N0JMlXqmC90MXrXweDKFmBvRu+8Z79J4p8jSdLP32GS Kix1oa+QwnwT61xjnh2i0E1IAHuE9uYRuV11qq3vQ/dLbTl9Bgor4mo/4O2Ftovow3x2 2dFTL8dLxjJEoV6cbWPfi5iosawHdNUeDHNd9BxxVAtXqQKegk0iPP1684FuD9i83Ohw b4XzqzGA01HvaGw88yQ+iKZ7aqQXevVq7OX5DIeL/6EFzONJhqzXd49Ln1bfT+3nxx/v UG8Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=gf2pZYRHi6gN1qFx5zg5bZFrlTknQi8D2IWrgct6ecI=; b=gFukje5m3zToDxoA/T4O9KxbVvHmC7+HG3f9ShCmczFoWrI/dX/6q/GYYt8q7Pi1p7 YqUmdfQFP8sa85yeyxir9lZm9ZDilg+wMFxPOZRvsb40WqURAxEeh1m/YjoWJh76jTB3 SxQFgtCdpXLKP2I3qjvkXt8fsBv7dkMvrbQ2dRba/OTZn6KByVj1thcLhF6/8F8NKffe izZZXemSt4HQ3XcwKE2R+LYUYhLxaLJWhibjmvnWyeO9UNqgHEQwj7SFkSdOQdtx6kyz N8nQQMkdQtzS4CrNX7mnTLzKRPzPJlg8c6OqgYk6yxnhEl0NQHlFswSK8tPdTvnQd1Oa s2Zg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytfeJkYGjDFvnuiRmStOCb0gG30MdRcGTKHGw1vgwkqHbrJ4lNGG aH25GdDs0sXMoeJH/3hvfQEiAzhfKlR47Eph+HaScQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x2253/KOdQGVHCRzDGZPwoAYJb4NLw+UpisBUKMSN6N9txzyQGxnlJD+fZTkPraw0+B2pC/1uOQyIJeUj3pu0WdQ= X-Received: by 10.202.105.82 with SMTP id e79mr7790661oic.305.1516802430234; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 06:00:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.37.235 with HTTP; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 06:00:29 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <001a01d394ff$8f3f54a0$adbdfde0$@go2.pl> References: <001a01d394ff$8f3f54a0$adbdfde0$@go2.pl> From: Roger Lapthorn Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 14:00:29 +0000 Message-ID: To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: To get best results I think you need LOW conductivity around the earth-electrode "antenna", so the signal spread (and hence effective loop area) is greatest. Placing near a river is likely to give poor results in my experience. [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (rogerlapthorn[at]gmail.com) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: d0d76c369792b807e0925732d18ad9b1 Subject: Re: LF: RE: 136kHz WSPR experiment Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1141ac0e0c74440563861658" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false --001a1141ac0e0c74440563861658 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To get best results I think you need LOW conductivity around the earth-electrode "antenna", so the signal spread (and hence effective loop area) is greatest. Placing near a river is likely to give poor results in my experience. At 136kHz I suspect the earth-electrode "antenna" can be better than many solutions in the better directions (end-on), although I very much doubt that would match a good Marconi with a good ground system. My compromise vertical is NOT a very good LF/MF antenna! 73s Roger G3XBM On 24 January 2018 at 10:38, Marcin wrote: > Hello Roger, > > > > Big earth electrode antenna allows transmitting on 136kHz with average > results. > > https://klubnl.pl/wpr/en/index.php/2018/01/09/most-na- > wisle-elementem-anteny-czyli-eksperymentow-z-dipolami- > ziemnymi-ciag-dalszy/#more-720 > > We are slowly getting ready for testing at 8.27kHz but for this test we > needed 10km of wire=E2=80=A6 > > 73! Marcin SQ2BXI > > > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@ > blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Roger Lapthorn > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:20 AM > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk > *Subject:* LF: 136kHz WSPR experiment > > > > A couple of Gs came on. *G3XIZ* (46km) was 2-3dB better S/N on the > earth-electrodes than on the compromise vertical. He is end-on to the > "loop" in the ground. *G6AVK* was not copied *at all*. He is orthogonal > to the "loop" in the ground. I was quite surprised not to spot him at all > though. > > > > Conclusions? The earth-electrode "antenna" in the ground is quite > effective at 136kHz, but more directional. > > > > Next season I will definitely try an , E-field probe on RX! > > > > No great DX, but experimentation! > > > > 73s > > Roger G3XBM > --001a1141ac0e0c74440563861658 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To get best results I think you need LOW conductivity= around the earth-electrode "antenna", so the signal spread (and = hence effective loop area) is greatest.=C2=A0 Placing near a river is likel= y to give poor results in my experience.

At 136kHz= I suspect the earth-electrode "antenna" can be better than many = solutions in the better directions (end-on), although I very much doubt tha= t would match a good Marconi with a good ground system. My compromise verti= cal is NOT a very good LF/MF antenna!

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 24 January 2018 at 10:38, Marcin <bxi@go2.pl> wrote:

Hello Roger,

=C2=A0

Big earth electrode antenna allows tran= smitting on 136kHz with average results.=

= https://klubnl.pl/wpr/en/index.php/2018/01/09/most-na-wisle-eleme= ntem-anteny-czyli-eksperymentow-z-dipolami-ziemnymi-ciag-dalszy/#= more-720

We are slowly getting ready for testing at 8.27kHz but for this test we = needed 10km of wire=E2=80=A6

73! Marcin SQ2BXI

=C2=A0

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-r= sgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Roger LapthornSent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:20 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org; rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk
Subject: LF: 13= 6kHz WSPR experiment

=C2=A0<= u>

=C2=A0

= Conclusions? The earth-electrode "antenna" in the= ground is quite effective at 136kHz, but more directional.

=C2=A0

Next season I will definite= ly try an , E-field probe on RX!

=C2=A0<= u>

No great DX, but experimentation!=

=C2=A0

73s

= Roger G3XBM

--001a1141ac0e0c74440563861658--