Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w0QBFs7X007833 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2018 12:15:57 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1ef1ln-0002CK-BO for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2018 11:02:07 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1ef1lm-0002CB-9I for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2018 11:02:06 +0000 Received: from mail-ot0-x22d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::22d]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1ef1lh-0006DR-NL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2018 11:02:04 +0000 Received: by mail-ot0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id t35so94051otd.13 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2018 03:02:01 -0800 (PST) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=gmail.com Result=Good and Known Domain DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=soEdgdqefwN+q8IAJ5p4/ejQnTFdQxc9wv0pFD/4XpE=; b=PLBfkp/1FpVYlXiHIVxjCGBuky5wdDQnJ0cL8jPyJsIXMCTDsGM7bpfBan3nW4Wxcn smCO3vQbyhbKYpH6pX6plR4QNyx5IORdCJGqX5aLh4AiO+Y4o5Pa81bEK+CaevlwL7Fh xp3YR0npYeB6SSGTj4/VTNoSwQbcsxs9JSMzvvy7jbhDLm30ZD7j7utiG6Dh3N+yZhIR VyvnPmmHWaVIwz12fk+DwFCKMLZ882G0b0Qi+du80YmK0BmdfTEFxPXYEqSj0vXjvC27 wyDmnSgI/mBRgouM7FADnrCgtXmYvX7soHJRUffY5IXoLWCDrbE7C8frekONTTOTqzR5 eaeQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=soEdgdqefwN+q8IAJ5p4/ejQnTFdQxc9wv0pFD/4XpE=; b=WPYx82+gugd7Ka/tcNALufMckrBqQAJtbPsngAJU+mfKty9FnSmkW2XTYDxib9Znhr eKFbbh4ioiPFIc5XlCs4bJxYjt5lswlr3gbBDOe4ZteP+QDTn8tf+EOku26lLtXqjhu9 EUHuYgLaAfxkFar2H8IT0heRTjM4ZQ1BumWB3w5m+kjKHc/o1VyMrNRIyULwA7/eU1Xv Ef0A9n1Dh7AeDC+JYFUNNBt3n6nzXefrRjV3NyjYJZEw8j3Lnl0d7a9HemeMXYNdGc9b PEJnPew8idI6sEl+xdre5BSiv3vaoi0ncf/v4wice0yBfH7y8HKBSGUvSjOWCIvn4yWX SqfA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxyteo2XsRlFref6+kVFLyUaaOBlnVeM5Kx+YNHzZ42pfSDM7cuUiR IHg92WAc1cHMfprRfPRgacmpoEYQ1U1CwGWzEhAuVg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x224VeC9lTr++aAVrvb9zIgX7JJ/Tmry1m0Us6hviaWszCrnwxFMLnN+S/JHzkPYHnnasPYyrGVRC9j9tRhkrG9I= X-Received: by 10.157.94.17 with SMTP id d17mr15169069oti.386.1516964518799; Fri, 26 Jan 2018 03:01:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.28.166 with HTTP; Fri, 26 Jan 2018 03:01:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <66243EDEBFF7461DB02BEF05807F4559@MichaelSappPC> References: <66243EDEBFF7461DB02BEF05807F4559@MichaelSappPC> From: Roger Lapthorn Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 11:01:58 +0000 Message-ID: To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Thanks Mike. The results speak for themselves! 73s Roger G3XBM On 25 January 2018 at 16:16, Michael Sapp wrote: [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (rogerlapthorn[at]gmail.com) 0.0 T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID BODY: Test for Invalidly Named or Formatted Colors in HTML 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid 0.0 T_REMOTE_IMAGE Message contains an external image X-Scan-Signature: 81041ccf020e50169b14819d7251c203 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: 136kHz WSPR experiment Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e082c76dc47b90f0563abd317" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false --089e082c76dc47b90f0563abd317 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thanks Mike. The results speak for themselves! 73s Roger G3XBM On 25 January 2018 at 16:16, Michael Sapp wrote: > Roger & All: I ran my FT-817 on 137 kHz stateside here to see how well > it would work with my W1VD version of the e-probe. Initially it was 10 to > 15 dB down versus my high level LF converter that uses a level 23 double > balanced mixer and 2N5109 preamplifier > > I found the FT-817 LF/MF performance improves very nicely when using a > low pass filter at LF/MF that has good pass band 50 ohm return loss ---like > a Butterworth LPF with a 500 or 300 kHz cutoff. About half way through the > evening running the e-probe to LPF to FT-817 on 2200m wspr2, I decided to > build and add a broadband 2N3904 amplifier stage. An extra 10 dB or so of > net gain after my LPF for 137 kHz WSPR2 listening made a large > improvement. I had some +3000 km decodes from WH2XXP overnight in the mid > teens for SNR values, whereas I was having only WSPR2 limit range decodes > of WH2XXP without the added preamplifier gain. Initial FT-817 settings > were IPO "off", NB "off" AGC "off." After adding the broadband 2N3904 > preamp I had to run the input attenuator in the FT-817 and had AGC set to > fast with about a S3-S4 background level. It seems some gain is needed to > get through the RX front end in the FT-817, but using the attenuator in the > radio does not seem to hurt RX performance with about 20dB of total preamp > gain. Tonight I hope to add a variable bias resistor to fine tune the > preamplifier gain for best FT-817 performance. > > I did try playing with the alignment menu setting "01" for .5 to 2 MHz IF > gain in the FT-817. Higher or lower "01" settings did not make any > difference in FT-817 receiver sensitivity at LF/MF. But having a good 50 > ohm Z match with an LPF to the FT-817 appears to be essential for good > reception at 137 or 475 kHz....then adding the preamplifier after the LPF > makes up for the rx front end deficiencies. My high level converter would > still be my preference for performance, but the e-probe>LPF>2N3904 > preamp>FT-817 and attenuator worked reasonably well here... > > 73 Mike wa3tts > > FT-817 reception overnight on 2200m band > > 2018-01-25 07:48 WH2XXP 0.137507 -18 0 DM33 1 WA3TTS/2 > EN90xn 3014 65 > 2018-01-25 07:52 WH2XXP 0.137507 -19 0 DM33 1 WA3TTS/2 > EN90xn 3014 65 > 2018-01-25 07:44 WH2XXP 0.137507 -20 0 DM33 1 WA3TTS/2 > EN90xn 3014 65 > 2018-01-25 07:56 WH2XXP 0.137507 -20 0 DM33 1 WA3TTS/2 > EN90xn 3014 65 > 2018-01-25 09:00 WH2XXP 0.137507 -21 0 DM33 1 WA3TTS/2 > EN90xn 3014 65 > 2018-01-25 08:56 WH2XXP 0.137507 -22 0 DM33 1 WA3TTS/2 > EN90xn 3014 65 > > > 2018-01-25 06:36 WH2XXP 0.137507 -30 0 DM33 1 WA3TTS/2 > EN90xn 3014 65 > 2018-01-25 11:04 WH2XXP 0.137507 -31 0 DM33 1 WA3TTS/2 > EN90xn 3014 65 > 2018-01-25 10:08 WH2XXP 0.137507 -31 0 DM33 1 WA3TTS/2 > EN90xn 3014 65 > 2018-01-25 11:56 WH2XXP 0.137507 -31 0 DM33 1 WA3TTS/2 > EN90xn 3014 65 > 2018-01-25 06:24 WH2XXP 0.137507 -31 0 DM33 1 WA3TTS/2 > EN90xn 3014 65 > 2018-01-25 12:20 WH2XXP 0.137507 -31 0 DM33 1 WA3TTS/2 > EN90xn 3014 65 > 2018-01-25 05:52 WH2XXP 0.137507 -31 0 DM33 1 WA3TTS/2 > EN90xn 3014 65 > 2018-01-25 10:28 WH2XXP 0.137507 -32 0 DM33 1 WA3TTS/2 > EN90xn 3014 65 > 2018-01-25 05:56 WH2XXP 0.137507 -32 0 DM33 1 WA3TTS/2 > EN90xn 3014 65 > 2018-01-25 12:36 WH2XXP 0.137507 -33 0 DM33 1 WA3TTS/2 > EN90xn 3014 65 > 2018-01-25 04:44 WH2XXP 0.137507 -33 0 DM33 1 WA3TTS/2 > EN90xn 3014 65 > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Roger Lapthorn > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org ; rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2018 4:21 AM > *Subject:* LF: Re: 136kHz WSPR experiment > > Sorry about the spurious "," . > > On 24 January 2018 at 09:19, Roger Lapthorn > wrote: > >> A couple of Gs came on. *G3XIZ* (46km) was 2-3dB better S/N on the >> earth-electrodes than on the compromise vertical. He is end-on to the >> "loop" in the ground. *G6AVK* was not copied *at all*. He is orthogonal >> to the "loop" in the ground. I was quite surprised not to spot him at all >> though. >> >> >> Conclusions? The earth-electrode "antenna" in the ground is quite >> effective at 136kHz, but more directional. >> >> >> Next season I will definitely try an , E-field probe on RX! >> >> >> No great DX, but experimentation! >> >> >> 73s >> >> Roger G3XBM >> > > > > Virus-free. > www.avg.com > > <#m_-469039538077921338_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > > --089e082c76dc47b90f0563abd317 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Mike. The results speak for themselves!
<= div>
73s
Roger G3XBM

On 25 January 2018 at 16:16, Michael= Sapp <wa3tts@verizon.net> wrote:
=C2=A0Roger & All:=C2=A0 I ran my = FT-817 on 137=20 kHz stateside here to see how well it would work with my W1VD version of th= e=20 e-probe.=C2=A0 Initially it was 10 to 15 dB down versus my high level LF=20 converter that=C2=A0 uses a level 23 double balanced mixer and 2N5109=20 preamplifier=C2=A0
=C2=A0
I found the FT-817 LF/MF performance i= mproves very=20 nicely when using=C2=A0 a low pass filter at LF/MF that has good pass band = 50=20 ohm return loss ---like a Butterworth LPF with a=C2=A0500 or 300 kHz=20 cutoff.=C2=A0 About half way through the evening running the e-probe to LPF= to=20 FT-817 on 2200m wspr2, I decided to build and add a broadband 2N3904 amplif= ier=20 stage. An extra 10 dB or so of net gain after my LPF for 137 kHz WSPR2 list= ening=20 made a large improvement.=C2=A0 I had some +3000 km=C2=A0 decodes from WH2X= XP=20 overnight in the mid teens for SNR values, whereas I was having only WSPR2 = limit=20 range decodes of WH2XXP without the added preamplifier gain.=C2=A0 Initial= =20 FT-817 settings were IPO "off", NB "off" AGC "off.= "=C2=A0=C2=A0 After adding the=20 broadband 2N3904 preamp I had to run the input attenuator in the FT-817 and= had=20 AGC set to fast with about a S3-S4 background level.=C2=A0 It seems some ga= in is=20 needed to get through the RX front end in the FT-817, but using the attenua= tor=20 in the radio does not seem to hurt RX performance with about 20dB of total= =20 preamp gain. Tonight I hope to add a variable bias resistor to fine tune th= e=20 preamplifier gain for best FT-817 performance.
=C2=A0
=C2=A0I did try playing with the align= ment menu=20 setting "01" for .5 to 2 MHz IF gain in the FT-817.=C2=A0 Higher = or lower=C2=A0=20 "01" settings did not make any difference in FT-817 receiver sens= itivity at=20 LF/MF.=C2=A0=C2=A0 But having a good 50 ohm Z match with an LPF to the FT-8= 17=20 appears to be essential for good reception at 137 or 475 kHz....then adding= the=20 preamplifier after the LPF makes up for the rx front end deficiencies.=C2= =A0My=20 high level converter would still be my preference for performance, but the= =20 e-probe>LPF>2N3904 preamp>FT-817 and attenuator worked reasonably = well=20 here...
=C2=A0
73 Mike wa3tts
=C2=A0
=C2=A0 FT-817 reception overnight on 2= 200m=20 band
=C2=A0
<= /table>
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A02018-01-25 07:48=C2=A0 =C2=A0WH2XXP=C2=A0 =C2=A00.137507=C2=A0 =C2=A0-18=C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 =C2=A0DM33=C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0WA3TTS/2=C2=A0 =C2=A0EN90xn=C2=A0 =C2=A03014=C2=A0 =C2=A065=C2=A0
=C2=A02018-01-25 07:52=C2=A0 =C2=A0WH2XXP=C2=A0 =C2=A00.137507=C2=A0 =C2=A0-19=C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 =C2=A0DM33=C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0WA3TTS/2=C2=A0 =C2=A0EN90xn=C2=A0 =C2=A03014=C2=A0 =C2=A065=C2=A0
=C2=A02018-01-25 07:44=C2=A0 =C2=A0WH2XXP=C2=A0 =C2=A00.137507=C2=A0 =C2=A0-20=C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 =C2=A0DM33=C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0WA3TTS/2=C2=A0 =C2=A0EN90xn=C2=A0 =C2=A03014=C2=A0 =C2=A065=C2=A0
=C2=A02018-01-25 07:56=C2=A0 =C2=A0WH2XXP=C2=A0 =C2=A00.137507=C2=A0 =C2=A0-20=C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 =C2=A0DM33=C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0WA3TTS/2=C2=A0 =C2=A0EN90xn=C2=A0 =C2=A03014=C2=A0 =C2=A065=C2=A0
=C2=A02018-01-25 09:00=C2=A0 =C2=A0WH2XXP=C2=A0 =C2=A00.137507=C2=A0 =C2=A0-21=C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 =C2=A0DM33=C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0WA3TTS/2=C2=A0 =C2=A0EN90xn=C2=A0 =C2=A03014=C2=A0 =C2=A065=C2=A0
=C2=A02018-01-25 08:56=C2=A0 =C2=A0WH2XXP=C2=A0 =C2=A00.137507=C2=A0 =C2=A0-22=C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 =C2=A0DM33=C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0WA3TTS/2=C2=A0 =C2=A0EN90xn=C2=A0 =C2=A03014=C2=A0 =C2=A065
<= /table>
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 4= :21=20 AM
Subject: LF: Re: 136kHz WSPR=20 experiment

Sorry about the spurious "," .

On 24 January 2018 at 09:19, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wrote:

A=20 couple of Gs came on. G3XIZ (46km) was 2-3dB better S/N on the= =20 earth-electrodes than on the compromise vertical. He is end-on to the &= quot;loop"=20 in the ground. G6AVK was not copied at all. He is orthogo= nal=20 to the "loop" in the ground. I was quite surprised not to spo= t him at all=20 though.


Conclusions?=20 The earth-electrode "antenna" in the ground is quite effectiv= e at 136kHz,=20 but more directional.


Next=20 season I will definitely try an , E-field probe on RX!


No=20 great DX, but experimentation!


73s

Roger=20 G3XBM


=C2=A02018-01-25 06:36=C2=A0 =C2=A0WH2XXP=C2=A0 =C2=A00.137507=C2=A0 =C2=A0-30=C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 =C2=A0DM33=C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0WA3TTS/2=C2=A0 =C2=A0EN90xn=C2=A0 =C2=A03014=C2=A0 =C2=A065=C2=A0
=C2=A02018-01-25 11:04=C2=A0 =C2=A0WH2XXP=C2=A0 =C2=A00.137507=C2=A0 =C2=A0-31=C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 =C2=A0DM33=C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0WA3TTS/2=C2=A0 =C2=A0EN90xn=C2=A0 =C2=A03014=C2=A0 =C2=A065=C2=A0
=C2=A02018-01-25 10:08=C2=A0 =C2=A0WH2XXP=C2=A0 =C2=A00.137507=C2=A0 =C2=A0-31=C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 =C2=A0DM33=C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0WA3TTS/2=C2=A0 =C2=A0EN90xn=C2=A0 =C2=A03014=C2=A0 =C2=A065=C2=A0
=C2=A02018-01-25 11:56=C2=A0 =C2=A0WH2XXP=C2=A0 =C2=A00.137507=C2=A0 =C2=A0-31=C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 =C2=A0DM33=C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0WA3TTS/2=C2=A0 =C2=A0EN90xn=C2=A0 =C2=A03014=C2=A0 =C2=A065=C2=A0
=C2=A02018-01-25 06:24=C2=A0 =C2=A0WH2XXP=C2=A0 =C2=A00.137507=C2=A0 =C2=A0-31=C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 =C2=A0DM33=C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0WA3TTS/2=C2=A0 =C2=A0EN90xn=C2=A0 =C2=A03014=C2=A0 =C2=A065=C2=A0
=C2=A02018-01-25 12:20=C2=A0 =C2=A0WH2XXP=C2=A0 =C2=A00.137507=C2=A0 =C2=A0-31=C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 =C2=A0DM33=C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0WA3TTS/2=C2=A0 =C2=A0EN90xn=C2=A0 =C2=A03014=C2=A0 =C2=A065=C2=A0
=C2=A02018-01-25 05:52=C2=A0 =C2=A0WH2XXP=C2=A0 =C2=A00.137507=C2=A0 =C2=A0-31=C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 =C2=A0DM33=C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0WA3TTS/2=C2=A0 =C2=A0EN90xn=C2=A0 =C2=A03014=C2=A0 =C2=A065=C2=A0
=C2=A02018-01-25 10:28=C2=A0 =C2=A0WH2XXP=C2=A0 =C2=A00.137507=C2=A0 =C2=A0-32=C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 =C2=A0DM33=C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0WA3TTS/2=C2=A0 =C2=A0EN90xn=C2=A0 =C2=A03014=C2=A0 =C2=A065=C2=A0
=C2=A02018-01-25 05:56=C2=A0 =C2=A0WH2XXP=C2=A0 =C2=A00.137507=C2=A0 =C2=A0-32=C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 =C2=A0DM33=C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0WA3TTS/2=C2=A0 =C2=A0EN90xn=C2=A0 =C2=A03014=C2=A0 =C2=A065=C2=A0
=C2=A02018-01-25 12:36=C2=A0 =C2=A0WH2XXP=C2=A0 =C2=A00.137507=C2=A0 =C2=A0-33=C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 =C2=A0DM33=C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0WA3TTS/2=C2=A0 =C2=A0EN90xn=C2=A0 =C2=A03014=C2=A0 =C2=A065=C2=A0
=C2=A02018-01-25 04:44=C2=A0 =C2=A0WH2XXP=C2=A0 =C2=A00.137507=C2=A0 =C2=A0-33=C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 =C2=A0DM33=C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0WA3TTS/2=C2=A0 =C2=A0EN90xn=C2=A0 =C2=A03014=C2=A0 =C2=A065
3D""= Virus-free.=20 www.avg.com

--089e082c76dc47b90f0563abd317--