Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w09JX5RW027777 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2018 20:33:06 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1eYzZJ-0008KQ-JZ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2018 19:28:17 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1eYzZJ-0008KH-6u for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2018 19:28:17 +0000 Received: from mail-wm0-x22c.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c09::22c]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eYzZE-00074m-VF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2018 19:28:15 +0000 Received: by mail-wm0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id g75so22602036wme.0 for ; Tue, 09 Jan 2018 11:28:12 -0800 (PST) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=gmail.com Result=Good and Known Domain DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=dqd0X9c8J7qDRrbR+cggN71UFlsHtVen3s7KjHervdA=; b=iOa3bb6hCvMAzcTpFrZVHnX9OWO6c27zcPfq7cKQ9+FTLOsF9VUj7KglttfC8qMyKW GRim+X7fMUuRYvdnrfTofxr0AJ0DA5ZWbmADGSiV0fzY6lisZ9Qp5Sutf9VH367Fh+1C u5bj5SLcFrAbZiGMOiJcLTlb+xwCg7kMlwMIel/kehTU1NhFqsm6QUZY8VCAzc2sQOmD Ne4TuU7kI5P/hTWmdz0QHnGv1OymAHIQD9HNj3q1YL2yRh0gWJRD4QmVL1hX8BFVeFqT SgMDIVXg2f/ZWZTn11lH+alhM7xr0wYsRKito40BEQRBzxE14ksbEjsZbbZigbbpyCpc dz4Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=dqd0X9c8J7qDRrbR+cggN71UFlsHtVen3s7KjHervdA=; b=EltLLgVRr7CCm3XlJj9wHsC/0Dol++NHe/ujDNX8oKeVXw3mCgdOSwhXsFD6C4L/4Y uN1f8b9TbKUTOAqrdx2SF6uexS4GiTpalybQqzrC1McK64yqtcJ3HcHehGD/jHmMKDzW 8lolm4mBk66Qm5q7Y2c1beVwOAk9jCXTFM5c7qGfh1U+n+BkCDkBzQKrBhCpt7dHIJKE CHnzzuOhxl+BRsVDrrDuDjMku9ZDOHFUHo1Ldatu/GozOhiaWMXJ8DfaKNxq30CFF1w4 ixqh244lwUdpZ8qMFx71sIcO2yrKLVLGNsPlr7KH1Vn9T99hjoFTixLfox88PI0PIMZ8 phwg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mK2uMfZlpA/z+Dt9TpyK8ZW4MC2TqpOFFzYkBW/N4mO9zSxfA86 7+OPIsp9hygl1OpP1xk3dUR7REx4Lv7ZbXzwLnE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBot4DQv0ElX6Mq2TayNKBEaO9p2wHG0sT/sN3JPB5CNnvM9cdfAjApbCL7WvwlFbNclxGteZEXY+gHKA+a8hxMA= X-Received: by 10.80.164.169 with SMTP id w38mr22186675edb.154.1515526091806; Tue, 09 Jan 2018 11:28:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.177.38 with HTTP; Tue, 9 Jan 2018 11:28:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <160d0cc9190-1720-7a399@webjas-vaa200.srv.aolmail.net> <5A54E3EC.30107@posteo.de> <9fb65a40-484e-2a16-152e-36428d110b79@abelian.org> From: Andy Talbot Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 19:28:11 +0000 Message-ID: To: LineOne X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Just a thought The say GPSDO is delivering 16.384MHz But there's a very good chance the GPSDO itself uses a DDS, so is subject to 32 bit tuning resolution. Unless it has a 48 bit device or uses a Fract-N approach [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (andy.g4jnt[at]gmail.com) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid 0.0 T_REMOTE_IMAGE Message contains an external image X-Scan-Signature: 74b370a313f780c8b04cdb625468086b Subject: Re: LF: EbNaut at 8270.01953125 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c0a2acc599f9905625cea6e" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, SUBJ_HAS_UNIQ_ID autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false --94eb2c0a2acc599f9905625cea6e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Just a thought The say GPSDO is delivering 16.384MHz But there's a very good chance the GPSDO itself uses a DDS, so is subject to 32 bit tuning resolution. Unless it has a 48 bit device or uses a Fract-N approach Andy G4JNT On 9 January 2018 at 19:15, Riccardo Zoli wrote: > > Hi Paul, Stefan, Andy, Markus....VLF > > My specified QRG (printed with all decimals) is obviously theoretical. It > permits, as Paul well explained, to achieve in days maximum reference phase > precision for RX stations. > The value is obtained by a simple calculation: > > my GPSDO is tuned at 16384.000 kHz and clocking a DDS programmed with a > tuning dword = 8671744. DDS output is finally divided by 4 (SDR quadrature > generator). > > ((16384000 / 2^32) * 8671744) / 4 = > *8270.01953125* > > Thanks for reports. > This night, 5th attempt. > Same parameters, start time 18:30 UTC. > > > All the best > > > 73 de Riccardo IW4DXW > > > > > > Il 09/Gen/2018 18:29, "Paul Nicholson" ha scritto: > > > It is good to know the frequency to within 1uHz for VLF > amateur radio. A 1uHz error amounts to a 30 degree > phase error after one day, enough to significantly > affect the stacking of repeats. Fortunately this is > quite easy to achieve with GPS timing. > > > Riccardo IW4DXW wrote: > > > QRG: 8270.01953125 > > 3 chars > > 60 sec/sym. > > coding 16K21A > > CRC 8 > > duration: 12h 16' > > > start time 18:30 UTC > > Todmorden (1412.5 km) > --------------------- > > 05/06 Eb/N0 +9.4 dB, S/N -24.7 dB/1Hz, phase -141.8 *Decoded* > 06/07 Eb/N0 +10.7 dB, S/N -23.4 dB/1Hz, phase 99.3 *Decoded* > 07/08 Eb/N0 +7.7 dB, H-field only, phase 178.4 *Decoded* > 08/09 Eb/N0 +5.6 dB, S/N -62.5 dB/1Hz, phase 176.2 *Decoded* > > > Bielefeld (845.3 km) > -------------------- > > 05/06 Eb/N0 -3.7 dB, S/N -37.8 dB/1Hz, phase -30.8; > 06/07 Eb/N0 +3.5 dB, S/N -30.6 dB/1Hz, phase -163.3 *Decoded* > 07/08 Eb/N0 +4.0 dB, S/N -30.1 dB/1Hz, phase -66.4 *Decoded* > 08/09 Eb/N0 -4.2 dB, S/N -38.4 dB/1Hz, phase -72.8; > > > Cumiana (370.5 km) > ------------------ > > 05/06 Eb/N0 -7.7 dB, S/N -41.8 dB/1Hz, phase 102.4; > 06/07 Eb/N0 +1.2 dB, S/N -32.9 dB/1Hz, phase -54.9 *Decoded* > 07/08 Eb/N0 -2.5 dB, S/N -36.6 dB/1Hz, phase 20.5; > 08/09 Eb/N0 -7.6 dB, S/N -41.8 dB/1Hz, phase 102.0; > > > Warsaw (1035.0 km) > ------------------ > > 05/06 Eb/N0 -4.9 dB, S/N -39.0 dB/1Hz, phase -62.3; > 06/07 Eb/N0 -15.6 dB, S/N -49.7 dB/1Hz; > 07/08 Eb/N0 -8.7 dB, S/N -42.8 dB/1Hz, phase -63.2; > 08/09 No data from rx site, uplink off; > > -- > Paul Nicholson > -- > > > Virus-free. www.avg.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> --94eb2c0a2acc599f9905625cea6e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Just a thought

The say GPSDO is deliver= ing 16.384MHz
But there's a very good chance the GPSDO itself= uses a DDS, so is subject to 32 bit tuning resolution.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Unless = it has a 48 bit device or uses a=C2=A0 Fract-N approach

Andy=C2=A0 G4JNT


<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 9 January 2018 at 19:15, Riccardo Zoli <riccardozoli80@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Paul, Stefan, Andy, Markus....VLF

My = specified QRG (printed with all decimals) is obviously theoretical. It perm= its, as Paul well explained, to achieve in days maximum reference phase pre= cision for RX stations.
The value is obtained by a s= imple calculation:

my GP= SDO is tuned at 16384.000 kHz and clocking a DDS programmed with a tuning d= word =3D 8671744. DDS output is finally divided by 4 (SDR quadrature genera= tor).

((16384000 / 2^32)= * 8671744) / 4 =3D
8270.01953125

Thanks for reports.
This night, 5th attempt.
Same paramet= ers, start time 18:30 UTC.


All the best


73 de Riccardo IW4DXW
=


<= br>


=
Il 09/Gen/2018 18:29, "Paul Nicholson"= <vlf0403@abeli= an.org> ha scritto:

It is good to know the frequency to within 1uHz for VLF
amateur radio.=C2=A0 =C2=A0A 1uHz error amounts to a 30 degree
phase error after one day, enough to significantly
affect the stacking of repeats.=C2=A0 Fortunately this is
quite easy to achieve with GPS timing.


Riccardo IW4DXW wrote:

> QRG: 8270.01953125
> 3 chars
> 60 sec/sym.
> coding 16K21A
> CRC 8
> duration: 12h 16'

>=C2=A0 start time 18:30 UTC

Todmorden (1412.5 km)
---------------------

=C2=A005/06 Eb/N0=C2=A0 +9.4 dB, S/N -24.7 dB/1Hz, phase -141.8 *Decoded* =C2=A006/07 Eb/N0 +10.7 dB, S/N -23.4 dB/1Hz, phase=C2=A0 =C2=A099.3 *Decod= ed*
=C2=A007/08 Eb/N0=C2=A0 +7.7 dB, H-field only,=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0phase=C2= =A0 178.4 *Decoded*
=C2=A008/09 Eb/N0=C2=A0 +5.6 dB, S/N -62.5 dB/1Hz, phase=C2=A0 176.2 *Decod= ed*

Bielefeld (845.3 km)
--------------------

=C2=A005/06 Eb/N0 -3.7 dB, S/N -37.8 dB/1Hz, phase=C2=A0 -30.8;
=C2=A006/07 Eb/N0 +3.5 dB, S/N -30.6 dB/1Hz, phase -163.3 *Decoded*
=C2=A007/08 Eb/N0 +4.0 dB, S/N -30.1 dB/1Hz, phase=C2=A0 -66.4 *Decoded* =C2=A008/09 Eb/N0 -4.2 dB, S/N -38.4 dB/1Hz, phase=C2=A0 -72.8;


Cumiana (370.5 km)
------------------

=C2=A005/06 Eb/N0 -7.7 dB, S/N -41.8 dB/1Hz, phase 102.4;
=C2=A006/07 Eb/N0 +1.2 dB, S/N -32.9 dB/1Hz, phase -54.9 *Decoded*
=C2=A007/08 Eb/N0 -2.5 dB, S/N -36.6 dB/1Hz, phase=C2=A0 20.5;
=C2=A008/09 Eb/N0 -7.6 dB, S/N -41.8 dB/1Hz, phase 102.0;


Warsaw (1035.0 km)
------------------

=C2=A005/06 Eb/N0=C2=A0 -4.9 dB, S/N -39.0 dB/1Hz, phase -62.3;
=C2=A006/07 Eb/N0 -15.6 dB, S/N -49.7 dB/1Hz;
=C2=A007/08 Eb/N0=C2=A0 -8.7 dB, S/N -42.8 dB/1Hz, phase -63.2;
=C2=A008/09 No data from rx site, uplink off;

--
Paul Nicholson
--




= Virus-free. www.avg.com
--94eb2c0a2acc599f9905625cea6e--