Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w05E1DoW009038 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2018 15:01:15 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1eXST1-0000p0-Oe for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 13:55:27 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1eXST1-0000or-DG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 13:55:27 +0000 Received: from porthos.netcom.co.uk ([217.72.171.73]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eXSSy-00075c-HE for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 13:55:26 +0000 X-DKIM-Result: Domain=abelian.org Result=Signature OK DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=abelian.org ; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To: MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:From:References:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=C52wmDVEuAtgLg/s4S/z1Q7zQFAF/JBai4/YsAs4JE0=; b=rwUQJ5+Fxii2uoO9ErU0EjxmKi BQq3+N1DnFhiCQXxPCnDXzvslikPREcHlHhab2o08nDdRlrR8eAx9uqTgfJ44/Nx72T44hRngtIpi MGb9PskX22/jZh54XTDG1437gzfXuV+oeAPkP4MXSQCr/aA1cO+i9zFZCWbvsMXjYUSQ=; Received: from i-194-106-52-83.freedom2surf.net ([194.106.52.83]:45342 helo=pn.abelian.org) by porthos.netcom.co.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89_1) (envelope-from ) id 1eXSSy-00051D-5O for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 13:55:24 +0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pn.abelian.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86B01400256 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2018 13:55:23 +0000 (UTC) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <2dbcd2a8-0109-41e4-c0ca-aada17f54de8@abelian.org> <6b23a798-f28e-828c-bd8a-43ba8af0fb6a@abelian.org> <346e5dfe-da5f-79e9-c097-e3012a3b74bd@abelian.org> <5A344E83.3020308@posteo.de> <5A37BB18.4090806@posteo.de> <79b53aa1-0fa7-d02c-34bf-5b2e3b7bdddb@abelian.org> <5A381F2B.7000304@posteo.de> <3871624a-11dc-12b8-853c-8454840ca9ff@abelian.org> <5A398786.7000001@posteo.de> <5A398906.9000806@posteo.de> <6833b8ea-5cf8-809e-364e-a9f47e04bc44@abelian.org> <5A3D1058.2060801@posteo.de> <17640699-682a-2d4e-6c5f-8fa14d411530@abelian.org> <5A3DA439.2070503@posteo.de> <1baa9683-37de-2f96-5909-8138b10f0a8b@abelian.org> <5A43A659.9050006@posteo.de> <037a01d38031$1f453b20$5dcfb160$@comcast.net> <5A479376.2060804@posteo.de> <4ac90a6f-6a7b-5ae4-3b4a-d8cb8e153599@abelian.org> <1e63b6ca-ae5c-176a-b9fa-1f035e5cc72e@abelian .org> <015e01d384cc$e8c36270$ba4a2750$@comcast.net> From: Paul Nicholson Message-ID: <952fc558-5e93-f229-2749-855bc73b1cbc@abelian.org> Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2018 13:55:23 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <015e01d384cc$e8c36270$ba4a2750$@comcast.net> Content-Language: en-US X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - porthos.netcom.co.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - blacksheep.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - abelian.org X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: porthos.netcom.co.uk: authenticated_id: catchall@abelian.org X-Authenticated-Sender: porthos.netcom.co.uk: catchall@abelian.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Jim AA5BW wrote: > A technical question: I notice ~ 9dB lower Eb/N0 than the > 1-character December 28th result (in Todmorden and Bielefeld); > is this essentially from an approximately 12x increase in > character rate? Or does the symbol period independently also > affect Eb/N0 in this case? [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 4f449c45f7b1894a9195a328eedaeb30 Subject: Re: VLF: Finally back on the 58 km band... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Jim AA5BW wrote: > A technical question: I notice ~ 9dB lower Eb/N0 than the > 1-character December 28th result (in Todmorden and Bielefeld); > is this essentially from an approximately 12x increase in > character rate? Or does the symbol period independently also > affect Eb/N0 in this case? N0 is the noise density, completely independent of the transmission. It boils down to Eb, the signal energy per info bit. Eb is proportional to the overall message duration, and inversely proportional to the information content. So the symbol period (or signal bandwidth), coding scheme and modulation method, only come into it to the extent that they affect the total time it takes to transmit the information. The 1 char message (16K21A CRC 11, 60 second symbols) has duration 35520 seconds and info 1 * 5.7 = 5.7 bits. The 12 char message (16K21A CRC 6, 30 second symnols) has duration 47040 seconds, info content 12 * 5.7 = 68.4 bits. So we would expect Eb/N0 to differ by the factor 47040/35520 * 5.7/68.4 = 0.11 = -9.6 dB. Stefan wrote: > f = 5170.1000 Hz > Start time: 29.Dec.2017 15:00:00 UTC > Symbol period: 30 s > Characters: 12 > CRC bits: 20 > Coding 16K21A > Duration: 14:56 [hh:mm] Todmorden (881.2 km) -------------------- 29/30 Eb/N0 +2.8 dB, S/N -26.2 dB/1Hz, phase 46.1 *Decoded* 30/31 Eb/N0 +4.1 dB, S/N -24.9 dB/1Hz, phase 44.2 *Decoded* 31/01 Eb/N0 +1.8 dB, S/N -27.1 dB/1Hz, phase 43.2 *Decoded* 01/02 Eb/N0 +1.5 dB, S/N -27.5 dB/1Hz, phase 57.6 *Decoded* 02/03 Eb/N0 -1.6 dB, S/N -30.6 dB/1Hz, phase 60.6; 03/04 Eb/N0 -1.6 dB, S/N -30.6 dB/1Hz, phase 50.3; 04/05 Eb/N0 0.0 dB, S/N -29.0 dB/1Hz, phase 61.3; Bielefeld (303.8 km DL4YHF) --------------------------- 29/30 Eb/N0 +8.6 dB, S/N -20.4 dB/1Hz, phase -53.5 *Decoded* 30/31 Eb/N0 +8.3 dB, S/N -20.6 dB/1Hz, phase -52.1 *Decoded* 31/01 Eb/N0 +8.1 dB, S/N -20.8 dB/1Hz, phase -56.3 *Decoded* 01/02 Eb/N0 +8.4 dB, S/N -20.6 dB/1Hz, phase -47.9 *Decoded* 02/03 Eb/N0 +4.0 dB, S/N -24.9 dB/1Hz, phase -38.1 *Decoded* 03/04 Eb/N0 +5.6 dB, S/N -23.4 dB/1Hz, phase -46.1 *Decoded* 04/05 Eb/N0 +8.8 dB, S/N -20.1 dB/1Hz, phase -47.0 *Decoded* Warsaw (919.3 km SQ5BPF) ------------------------ 29/30 Eb/N0 -5.4 dB, S/N -34.4 dB/1Hz, phase -20.3; 30/31 Eb/N0 -17.2 dB, S/N -46.2 dB/1Hz; 31/01 Eb/N0 -7.8 dB, S/N -36.8 dB/1Hz, phase -44.2; 01/02 Eb/N0 -6.1 dB, S/N -35.1 dB/1Hz, phase -36.1; 02/03 Eb/N0 -8.2 dB, S/N -37.1 dB/1Hz, phase 2.9; 03/04 Eb/N0 -10.2 dB, S/N -39.2 dB/1Hz, phase -33.1; 04/05 Eb/N0 -8.1 dB, S/N -37.1 dB/1Hz, phase -3.8; Seven stacked: Eb/N0 -0.8 dB; Cumiana (504.6 km IK1QFK) ------------------------- 29/30 Eb/N0 -5.4 dB, S/N -34.3 dB/1Hz, phase 176.7; 30/31 Eb/N0 -1.3 dB, S/N -30.3 dB/1Hz, phase -176.2; 31/01 Eb/N0 -4.9 dB, S/N -33.9 dB/1Hz, phase 177.4; 01/02 No data from rx site, ADSL fault; 02/03 No data from rx site, ADSL fault; 03/04 No data from rx site, ADSL fault; 04/05 Eb/N0 -1.6 dB, S/N -30.6 dB/1Hz, phase 174.5; Four stacked: Eb/N0 2.9 dB *Decoded* -- Paul Nicholson --