Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w09JkrAX027832 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2018 20:46:56 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1eYzmb-0008Qi-9I for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2018 19:42:01 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1eYzma-0008QV-HT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2018 19:42:00 +0000 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eYzmV-0007A1-PA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2018 19:41:59 +0000 Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F11D20DE4 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2018 20:41:53 +0100 (CET) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=posteo.de Result=Signature OK DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.de; s=2017; t=1515526914; bh=gDOkqRjO2/5iKwO+zFR8zFDudGTE7yrn4LQLkubn878=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:From; b=F2asQJ8GSCReFMeQVk6+KFFJ+BvO7Mpi/wYJHQpJlXwcjVV/i673/XeycTMqBWKDr GyzLzwRf0OHAQCdj1YQbfwbFFqV+K3CT04zs6GdwMqSsSVi73JVSbDRYHD1OkxXzHs yHz1xOqNA0qES5EoUAHxCqlvVEcVinae1XLuzVDl0a7XaNEyyvzWqSIjMMvtanYNzO eWhPfmfR6i50IJt/APEWcPpIwTkllQmswA9hnsLs5GQi4/IVh0VHjaIF21MPf9n/4s pVnIMHKHEd4nscT3Y+j4AZABcOoUufKzcVdqbpK63JfPgqWsZRcCHzMAVQ7rFX47js HQ64sk03Tup7Q== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 3zGMwB6b55z9rxT for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2018 20:41:46 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <5A551AFA.9020806@posteo.de> Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2018 20:41:46 +0100 From: DK7FC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; de; rv:1.9.1.8) Gecko/20100227 Thunderbird/3.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <160d0cc9190-1720-7a399@webjas-vaa200.srv.aolmail.net> <5A54E3EC.30107@posteo.de> <9fb65a40-484e-2a16-152e-36428d110b79@abelian.org> In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: MHz? What is that? Am 09.01.2018 20:28, schrieb Andy Talbot: > Just a thought > > The say GPSDO is delivering 16.384MHz > But there's a very good chance the GPSDO itself uses a DDS, so is > subject to 32 bit tuning resolution. Unless it has a 48 bit device > or uses a Fract-N approach > > Andy G4JNT > > > On 9 January 2018 at 19:15, Riccardo Zoli > wrote: > > > Hi Paul, Stefan, Andy, Markus....VLF > > My specified QRG (printed with all decimals) is obviously > theoretical. It permits, as Paul well explained, to achieve in > days maximum reference phase precision for RX stations. > The value is obtained by a simple calculation: > > my GPSDO is tuned at 16384.000 kHz and clocking a DDS programmed > with a tuning dword = 8671744. DDS output is finally divided by 4 > (SDR quadrature generator). > > ((16384000 / 2^32) * 8671744) / 4 = > *8270.01953125* > * > * > Thanks for reports. > This night, 5th attempt. > Same parameters, start time 18:30 UTC. > > > All the best > > > 73 de Riccardo IW4DXW > > > > > > Il 09/Gen/2018 18:29, "Paul Nicholson" > ha scritto: > > > It is good to know the frequency to within 1uHz for VLF > amateur radio. A 1uHz error amounts to a 30 degree > phase error after one day, enough to significantly > affect the stacking of repeats. Fortunately this is > quite easy to achieve with GPS timing. > > > Riccardo IW4DXW wrote: > > > QRG: 8270.01953125 > > 3 chars > > 60 sec/sym. > > coding 16K21A > > CRC 8 > > duration: 12h 16' > > > start time 18:30 UTC > > Todmorden (1412.5 km) > > > 05/06 Eb/N0 +9.4 dB, S/N -24.7 dB/1Hz, phase -141.8 *Decoded* > 06/07 Eb/N0 +10.7 dB, S/N -23.4 dB/1Hz, phase 99.3 *Decoded* > 07/08 Eb/N0 +7.7 dB, H-field only, phase 178.4 *Decoded* > 08/09 Eb/N0 +5.6 dB, S/N -62.5 dB/1Hz, phase 176.2 *Decoded* > > > Bielefeld (845.3 km) > > > 05/06 Eb/N0 -3.7 dB, S/N -37.8 dB/1Hz, phase -30.8; > 06/07 Eb/N0 +3.5 dB, S/N -30.6 dB/1Hz, phase -163.3 [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid 0.0 T_REMOTE_IMAGE Message contains an external image X-Scan-Signature: dbfcc27a21e9e888d454ffd0e5adf99c Subject: Re: LF: EbNaut at 8270.01953125 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070807030604030504070108" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE,HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SUBJ_HAS_UNIQ_ID autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070807030604030504070108 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MHz? What is that? Am 09.01.2018 20:28, schrieb Andy Talbot: > Just a thought > > The say GPSDO is delivering 16.384MHz > But there's a very good chance the GPSDO itself uses a DDS, so is > subject to 32 bit tuning resolution. Unless it has a 48 bit device > or uses a Fract-N approach > > Andy G4JNT > > > On 9 January 2018 at 19:15, Riccardo Zoli > wrote: > > > Hi Paul, Stefan, Andy, Markus....VLF > > My specified QRG (printed with all decimals) is obviously > theoretical. It permits, as Paul well explained, to achieve in > days maximum reference phase precision for RX stations. > The value is obtained by a simple calculation: > > my GPSDO is tuned at 16384.000 kHz and clocking a DDS programmed > with a tuning dword = 8671744. DDS output is finally divided by 4 > (SDR quadrature generator). > > ((16384000 / 2^32) * 8671744) / 4 = > *8270.01953125* > * > * > Thanks for reports. > This night, 5th attempt. > Same parameters, start time 18:30 UTC. > > > All the best > > > 73 de Riccardo IW4DXW > > > > > > Il 09/Gen/2018 18:29, "Paul Nicholson" > ha scritto: > > > It is good to know the frequency to within 1uHz for VLF > amateur radio. A 1uHz error amounts to a 30 degree > phase error after one day, enough to significantly > affect the stacking of repeats. Fortunately this is > quite easy to achieve with GPS timing. > > > Riccardo IW4DXW wrote: > > > QRG: 8270.01953125 > > 3 chars > > 60 sec/sym. > > coding 16K21A > > CRC 8 > > duration: 12h 16' > > > start time 18:30 UTC > > Todmorden (1412.5 km) > --------------------- > > 05/06 Eb/N0 +9.4 dB, S/N -24.7 dB/1Hz, phase -141.8 *Decoded* > 06/07 Eb/N0 +10.7 dB, S/N -23.4 dB/1Hz, phase 99.3 *Decoded* > 07/08 Eb/N0 +7.7 dB, H-field only, phase 178.4 *Decoded* > 08/09 Eb/N0 +5.6 dB, S/N -62.5 dB/1Hz, phase 176.2 *Decoded* > > > Bielefeld (845.3 km) > -------------------- > > 05/06 Eb/N0 -3.7 dB, S/N -37.8 dB/1Hz, phase -30.8; > 06/07 Eb/N0 +3.5 dB, S/N -30.6 dB/1Hz, phase -163.3 *Decoded* > 07/08 Eb/N0 +4.0 dB, S/N -30.1 dB/1Hz, phase -66.4 *Decoded* > 08/09 Eb/N0 -4.2 dB, S/N -38.4 dB/1Hz, phase -72.8; > > > Cumiana (370.5 km) > ------------------ > > 05/06 Eb/N0 -7.7 dB, S/N -41.8 dB/1Hz, phase 102.4; > 06/07 Eb/N0 +1.2 dB, S/N -32.9 dB/1Hz, phase -54.9 *Decoded* > 07/08 Eb/N0 -2.5 dB, S/N -36.6 dB/1Hz, phase 20.5; > 08/09 Eb/N0 -7.6 dB, S/N -41.8 dB/1Hz, phase 102.0; > > > Warsaw (1035.0 km) > ------------------ > > 05/06 Eb/N0 -4.9 dB, S/N -39.0 dB/1Hz, phase -62.3; > 06/07 Eb/N0 -15.6 dB, S/N -49.7 dB/1Hz; > 07/08 Eb/N0 -8.7 dB, S/N -42.8 dB/1Hz, phase -63.2; > 08/09 No data from rx site, uplink off; > > -- > Paul Nicholson > -- > > > > > > Virus-free. www.avg.com > > > --------------070807030604030504070108 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MHz? What is that?

Am 09.01.2018 20:28, schrieb Andy Talbot:
Just a thought

The say GPSDO is delivering 16.384MHz
But there's a very good chance the GPSDO itself uses a DDS, so is subject to 32 bit tuning resolution.   Unless it has a 48 bit device or uses a  Fract-N approach

Andy  G4JNT


On 9 January 2018 at 19:15, Riccardo Zoli <riccardozoli80@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Paul, Stefan, Andy, Markus....VLF

My specified QRG (printed with all decimals) is obviously theoretical. It permits, as Paul well explained, to achieve in days maximum reference phase precision for RX stations.
The value is obtained by a simple calculation:

my GPSDO is tuned at 16384.000 kHz and clocking a DDS programmed with a tuning dword = 8671744. DDS output is finally divided by 4 (SDR quadrature generator).

((16384000 / 2^32) * 8671744) / 4 =
8270.01953125

Thanks for reports.
This night, 5th attempt.
Same parameters, start time 18:30 UTC.


All the best


73 de Riccardo IW4DXW





Il 09/Gen/2018 18:29, "Paul Nicholson" <vlf0403@abelian.org> ha scritto:

It is good to know the frequency to within 1uHz for VLF
amateur radio.   A 1uHz error amounts to a 30 degree
phase error after one day, enough to significantly
affect the stacking of repeats.  Fortunately this is
quite easy to achieve with GPS timing.


Riccardo IW4DXW wrote:

> QRG: 8270.01953125
> 3 chars
> 60 sec/sym.
> coding 16K21A
> CRC 8
> duration: 12h 16'

>  start time 18:30 UTC

Todmorden (1412.5 km)
---------------------

 05/06 Eb/N0  +9.4 dB, S/N -24.7 dB/1Hz, phase -141.8 *Decoded*
 06/07 Eb/N0 +10.7 dB, S/N -23.4 dB/1Hz, phase   99.3 *Decoded*
 07/08 Eb/N0  +7.7 dB, H-field only,     phase  178.4 *Decoded*
 08/09 Eb/N0  +5.6 dB, S/N -62.5 dB/1Hz, phase  176.2 *Decoded*


Bielefeld (845.3 km)
--------------------

 05/06 Eb/N0 -3.7 dB, S/N -37.8 dB/1Hz, phase  -30.8;
 06/07 Eb/N0 +3.5 dB, S/N -30.6 dB/1Hz, phase -163.3 *Decoded*
 07/08 Eb/N0 +4.0 dB, S/N -30.1 dB/1Hz, phase  -66.4 *Decoded*
 08/09 Eb/N0 -4.2 dB, S/N -38.4 dB/1Hz, phase  -72.8;


Cumiana (370.5 km)
------------------

 05/06 Eb/N0 -7.7 dB, S/N -41.8 dB/1Hz, phase 102.4;
 06/07 Eb/N0 +1.2 dB, S/N -32.9 dB/1Hz, phase -54.9 *Decoded*
 07/08 Eb/N0 -2.5 dB, S/N -36.6 dB/1Hz, phase  20.5;
 08/09 Eb/N0 -7.6 dB, S/N -41.8 dB/1Hz, phase 102.0;


Warsaw (1035.0 km)
------------------

 05/06 Eb/N0  -4.9 dB, S/N -39.0 dB/1Hz, phase -62.3;
 06/07 Eb/N0 -15.6 dB, S/N -49.7 dB/1Hz;
 07/08 Eb/N0  -8.7 dB, S/N -42.8 dB/1Hz, phase -63.2;
 08/09 No data from rx site, uplink off;

--
Paul Nicholson
--




Virus-free. www.avg.com
--------------070807030604030504070108--