Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id vBEL2nAR007129 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 22:02:51 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1ePaXE-0007vr-Tz for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 20:55:16 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1ePaXB-0007vi-QS for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 20:55:13 +0000 Received: from mail-qk0-x233.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400d:c09::233]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1ePaX7-0005FA-Sj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 20:55:12 +0000 Received: by mail-qk0-x233.google.com with SMTP id h19so7935869qkj.11 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:55:08 -0800 (PST) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=gmail.com Result=Good and Known Domain DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=NIKwyB0tKAUWjwsfgvgAHcKzO3ogtyQh/c9Y0ol29hg=; b=Sx7ClyvNjhBp9A2Zpg2Qayr0ZVWJkI/hBQvNBpms31ghrlUDp+Bdg1Hb1mma1Bk3Fk zMeN7oBr+A1q/6yg6KjhnHQqumvHC9MEr7m3BYmXESOqzvdqy/QYPlHeUGYp66fFBSjM Zf860ZX2wAtVFuZlPxfdu4c06+O1Juoplo6PM9uyeXHSK5oiIN3u7qdLUojJjGusxjTb pjuputDmj1/oTjhOxuGRvvXZ7FG8/WHorxhlDMXQvs4RDUzLr8zQLU4c5KyfSEN2Wq4g U2eUqeVkQkMBdiQkHjaXnq+ZqvjPgF0jJmTbYK6MPQAe2WbTcnnMpRVogTT9C5W8Kmq9 WszA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=NIKwyB0tKAUWjwsfgvgAHcKzO3ogtyQh/c9Y0ol29hg=; b=ahC8xEQgqm1dOXPiXHdPA6dCwBzEg6LL42T9/foMPOdG2JIAfUZ3WKl3hR0RtH2EF0 D9/07Q7HX11GbP4Bc6Rp6cpc8azlbYGNVRx3diK5cxYKBmZhwFMpCXrts2Xh5wLiOwMP mnakP4r9ZSKKg9x5rw80R1CHyvozNqS7NuOmk5/gFajJ6b6LAHj/rFo+OxD7xdo+ISNX cSfiX2fxuB7UOKWiS9HOne0EXK49QgKBZjuMeDcdUJU4ZzR5DKK/7PFpNY86vQnyigHN ocZAt4SYnRS7Kx9T7CDbYKN3sw7NGw0lRgKuRAL5ojMhL5sxvO2m3vG+AEGM3yPRB0QD OWqA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJtQ3RF1/V7WtqoQDPrJfHQJ6SYOCE7K3a+qj05Xxx4NB6FcyH2 kwgGmMzGCpgOtVVr9rMYQiXf2VZlLZVulrU809s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBovxQE3+xWLrll2d75wQuGfzPU1b95qJh2W6rR1qQLYmo2JoboM5XswVNrAptXGNG3+McC0n9OtzZOryg/deBfU= X-Received: by 10.55.15.201 with SMTP id 70mr18088913qkp.95.1513284906305; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:55:06 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.25.140 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:55:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.25.140 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:55:05 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5A326406.5020202@posteo.de> References: <0a09eb43-a5de-4b08-b08b-af990540399b@abelian.org> <41a4456f-6580-360e-2912-629920ec91a8@abelian.org> <8938a08e-7370-3077-2419-2b0d5ab440af@abelian.org> <5A326406.5020202@posteo.de> From: Riccardo Zoli Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 21:55:05 +0100 Message-ID: To: LF Group X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Paul, Stefan, Jacek, VLF I'm on air with continuous carrier at the same QRG until 21:30 UTC, then: *f = 8270.00332 HzStart time: 21:30:00 UTCSymbol period: 30 sCharacters: 3 (repeated)CRC bits: 24Coding 16K21ADuration: 8h,16minAntenna current: 390 mA* [...] Content analysis details: (0.3 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (riccardozoli80[at]gmail.com) 0.2 FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT Envelope-from freemail username ends in digit (riccardozoli80[at]gmail.com) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 94a3ffcd3903efbf0b2b811b1b1cc0bf Subject: Re: LF: EbNaut test at 8270.00332 from JN64bw Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1147109848cc9505605319ff" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,HTML_20_30, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false --001a1147109848cc9505605319ff Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Paul, Stefan, Jacek, VLF I'm on air with continuous carrier at the same QRG until 21:30 UTC, then: *f =3D 8270.00332 HzStart time: 21:30:00 UTCSymbol period: 30 sCharacters: = 3 (repeated)CRC bits: 24Coding 16K21ADuration: 8h,16minAntenna current: 390 mA* Thanks Paul for your explanation. It's all true! I thought it was so hard to do. But it wasn't! :-) In my view, VLF are probably the most wonderful experience in my ham activity. 73 de Riccardo IW4DXW Il 14/Dic/2017 12:47, "DK7FC" ha scritto: Am 14.12.2017 09:41, schrieb Paul Nicholson: > > Added to the growing list of amateur achievements > at VLF > > http://abelian.org/vlf/amateur-radio/ > > It has been a very successful season so far. I hope this > encourages more people to have a go at VLF, we need more > transmitters and receivers. > Indeed! Recently i thought "VLF is the new LF". >From the view of a HF amateur, LF is complex because of the large coils, the high voltages, the sepcial narrow band modes, the genaration of stable frequencies, the few number of active stations... Oh and it is sooo deep! Actually it can't work. Oh, and why do these crazy OMs use such low frequencies at all? The 20m band is so much easier ("Youuure 5ee9e", "CQ DX"...)... VLF is just another step in this direction. The coils are larger, the voltages higher, the ERP lower, the frequency must be even more stable, the modes are even more narrow... AND, not to forget, like HF->LF, LF->VLF is a few orders of magnitude more fascinating, exciting, exceptional! I can see only positive tendencies, the lower it goes :-) Perhaps the perception is that it is difficult? Surely not. > Don't believe all those stories you hear about how hard it is > to radiate, or how difficult it is to find a location to > receive from! > > Let's see - > > - Low cost. You don't need expensive SDRs or test equipment. > Your PC soundcard is signal generator, spectrum analyser, > and SDR, all in one. Transmitter is just an audio amplifier, > even a low quality one. The most expensive thing you'll buy > is a load of wire for a loading coil. > > - GPS timing? =C2=A318 quid for a NEO-7 module and you know your > frequency to the micro Hertz. Buy two, you'll use them! > > - Easy to build. Just audio frequency signals, nothing critical > about layout. VLF is great for the homebrew enthusiast. > Indeed!! > - You don't need a huge ERP. 10uW and you're on the air. Your > LF antenna will probably do better than you think at VLF. > Uuuh but 10 uW is not so easy. The critical thing is the voltage, not the power. Capacity is needed, and radiation resistance of course. > - UK Notice of Variation? No problem, a simple application form, > and if enough apply, maybe the regulators will make that easier. > > - Where else can you operate at the cutting edge with such > simple equipment? > > In case you thing my location here is specially good, it certainly > isn't. The mains here at the top of the Calder Valley is very > rough, terrible sidebands. All the properties around here get > their power by overhead lines at 12kV and one of the two 33kV > lines feeding Todmorden is only a km away. The nearest 12kV > line is just 120m from the E-field antenna. 140mV RMS of 50Hz > on the E-field probe and a lot of harmonics. Reception here is > bad! You can probably do better in the suburbs. > > How many times per century does amateur radio find a green field > to explore? > Currently, about once per week! :-) Not just a new band but a whole new frequency range. > > Don't miss out on this one! > Exactly! And the lower we go, the more it makes sense to think in wavelength rather tahn in frequency. Because otherwise a QSY from 2970 Hz to 2470 Hz means a difference of just 500 Hz, which is not much. But it is a difference in wavelength of 20000 m! 73, Stefan > > -- > Paul Nicholson > -- > > --001a1147109848cc9505605319ff Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Paul, St= efan, Jacek, VLF

I'm= on air with continuous carrier at the same QRG until 21:30 UTC, then:


= f =3D 8270.00332 Hz
S= tart time: 21:30:00 UTC
Symbol period: 30 s
Characters: 3 (repeated)<= br>CRC bits: 24
Coding 16K21A
Duration: 8h,16min
Antenna current: = 390 mA


T= hanks Paul for your explanation.
It's all true! = I thought it was so hard to do. But it wasn't! :-)
In my view, VLF are probably the most wonderful experience in my ham act= ivity.


73 de Riccardo IW4DXW


Il 14/Dic/201= 7 12:47, "DK7FC" <selberdenken@posteo.de> ha scritto:
Am 14.12.2017 09:41, schrieb Paul Nicholson:

Added to the growing list of amateur achievements
at VLF

=C2=A0http://abelian.org/vlf/amateur-radio/

It has been a very successful season so far.=C2=A0 I hope this
encourages more people to have a go at VLF, we need more
transmitters and receivers.
Indeed!
Recently i thought "VLF is the new LF".
>From the view of a HF amateur, LF is complex because of the large coils, th= e high voltages, the sepcial narrow band modes, the genaration of stable fr= equencies, the few number of active stations... Oh and it is sooo deep! Act= ually it can't work. Oh, and why do these crazy OMs use such low freque= ncies at all? The 20m band is so much easier ("Youuure 5ee9e", &q= uot;CQ DX"...)...
VLF is just another step in this direction. The coils are larger, the volta= ges higher, the ERP lower, the frequency must be even more stable, the mode= s are even more narrow...
AND, not to forget, like HF->LF, LF->VLF is a few orders of magnitude= more fascinating, exciting, exceptional!
I can see only positive tendencies, the lower it goes :-)


Perhaps the perception is that it is difficult?=C2=A0 Surely not.
Don't believe all those stories you hear about how hard it is
to radiate, or how difficult it is to find a location to
receive from!

Let's see -

- Low cost. You don't need expensive SDRs or test equipment.
=C2=A0 Your PC soundcard is signal generator, spectrum analyser,
=C2=A0 and SDR, all in one.=C2=A0 Transmitter is just an audio amplifier, =C2=A0 even a low quality one.=C2=A0 The most expensive thing you'll bu= y
=C2=A0 is a load of wire for a loading coil.

- GPS timing?=C2=A0 =C2=A318 quid for a NEO-7 module and you know your
=C2=A0 frequency to the micro Hertz.=C2=A0 Buy two, you'll use them!
- Easy to build.=C2=A0 Just audio frequency signals, nothing critical
=C2=A0 about layout.=C2=A0 =C2=A0VLF is great for the homebrew enthusiast.<= br>
Indeed!!


- You don't need a huge ERP.=C2=A0 10uW and you're on the air.=C2= =A0 Your
=C2=A0 LF antenna will probably do better than you think at VLF.
Uuuh but 10 uW is not so easy. The critical thing is the voltage, not the p= ower. Capacity is needed, and radiation resistance of course.



- UK Notice of Variation?=C2=A0 No problem, a simple application form,
=C2=A0 and if enough apply, maybe the regulators will make that easier.

- Where else can you operate at the cutting edge with such
=C2=A0 simple equipment?

In case you thing my location here is specially good, it certainly
isn't.=C2=A0 The mains here at the top of the Calder Valley is very
rough, terrible sidebands.=C2=A0 All the properties around here get
their power by overhead lines at 12kV and one of the two 33kV
lines feeding Todmorden is only a km away.=C2=A0 The nearest 12kV
line is just 120m from the E-field antenna. 140mV RMS of 50Hz
on the E-field probe and a lot of harmonics.=C2=A0 Reception here is
bad!=C2=A0 =C2=A0You can probably do better in the suburbs.

How many times per century does amateur radio find a green field
to explore?
Currently, about once per week! :-)

=C2=A0 Not just a new band but a whole new frequency range.

Don't miss out on this one!
Exactly!
And the lower we go, the more it makes sense to think in wavelength rather = tahn in frequency. Because otherwise a QSY from 2970 Hz to 2470 Hz means a = difference of just 500 Hz, which is not much. But it is a difference in wav= elength of=C2=A0 20000 m!

73, Stefan

--
Paul Nicholson
--



--001a1147109848cc9505605319ff--