Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id vBSLQrNo006679 for ; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 22:26:55 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1eUfcr-00047J-2f for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 21:22:05 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1eUfcq-00047A-P4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 21:22:04 +0000 Received: from mail-io0-x22f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22f]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eUfcn-0007Ni-Qa for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 21:22:03 +0000 Received: by mail-io0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id k202so31239653ioe.10 for ; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 13:22:01 -0800 (PST) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=gmail.com Result=Good and Known Domain DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=o5hoYoYFlrF3K8QdeBpgzBOcpqRnsrrjZXPNDIucX6E=; b=JyMVbEcMVU+NnbwdBJrDaqKOo0EqPTbXYZbr9O8Rns4DIQFYUEVTKVcKJWaFetu4Iv a7sVrwFWr7t5yBDwHO6ebF/4wcua3R48//pK+kED/s6gaYDzvJabY9o0O3JFvEhLtdnt vfNpYo3l9iuIPPJDK2gAnp5J4HuoZdd/VHp5cJOZFuRFKKFtOVzaK8UZQbVhed4ix9Yd G/YOmzHSafe9jev9jbl6Ot7cMYD6kcRMCKlSe3xMTRSXEw9HlERa/Htk3QpBEp/hxBvg LbOtndsu5CUmaF4CQCUPlzQXZa2OQ9aFit3O5cmnfJ0v4x3q8O4d6xwQVI1fmUSLVAaT 274A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=o5hoYoYFlrF3K8QdeBpgzBOcpqRnsrrjZXPNDIucX6E=; b=OzCWaeqjTQl7tKIbRNlT+WWIaYfAe8w7HvQCwJ6/rkwleryJ/oM1hlWFfdn2PLJORE cJ6j83umBz9ny20hXWHHqzaRpfzp2w2s8N7wdqyQZPLGeOBmyoHGcGjUo3L1f76T/N+8 9yxgD4iFoFzw2nuR1xJrjHP/a0/jjbAX0Dst0JETNUlBDYaEHXN2Y+BTy9aUdTetGns3 XdbXty7a8xzc/GTMVaqpCD1BE5ieGhMTu9Tnb8HaqEDNtIb+BCf0f3O6v7ihzeDj+ezE daID0QoDAMtT+EqLiCmVD7HSeDFKkNCxGuVH/MSadTOvLwBD4I9sJ2G4nCIIS1ogIL7a F6eQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mKmlrrLzrQVMUju/nPuXTvXt0g3WV74ubtYEWAN5OUFLAUGf4ra ggN2n926jLrUJjBFyBadfCQ/BenmFDgLhjnhil8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBouFeTSyWu5FTAzcWyF670SFMMmHxUYir5GUExu1YqeUQzbVHdIx91jIlqtHl/OABInJGVlpcyxm0NNXFRY/cuk= X-Received: by 10.107.148.194 with SMTP id w185mr16217322iod.0.1514496119646; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 13:21:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.2.145.7 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 13:21:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1609e1a87d5-57b4-137cc@webjas-vaa011.srv.aolmail.net> References: <1609e1a87d5-57b4-137cc@webjas-vaa011.srv.aolmail.net> From: Dexter McIntyre W4DEX Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 16:21:59 -0500 Message-ID: To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Markus Vester wrote: > Hi Dex, > > correlation processing is relatively cheap, so no harm done ;-) > > > No stacking allowed when message is known. > > I politely disagree. A decode made after stacking blindly with constant > phase and weights (or weights derived solely from noise level) hasn't made > use of a priori information of the correct result. Correlations are ok, but > their output should not be used to tweak the phases before stacking. As > Paul mentioned earlier, stacking a large enough number of tweaked-phase > data sets will eventually produce any desired decode from pure noise. > [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (dexter.mc[at]gmail.com) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 49f0f587e44d6711c57b8a4e950ba850 Subject: Re: LF: 8269.9 kHz EbNaut 27/12/17 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113fe52239afb005616d1bdb" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false --001a113fe52239afb005616d1bdb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Markus Vester wrote: > Hi Dex, > > correlation processing is relatively cheap, so no harm done ;-) > > > No stacking allowed when message is known. > > I politely disagree. A decode made after stacking blindly with constant > phase and weights (or weights derived solely from noise level) hasn't made > use of a priori information of the correct result. Correlations are ok, but > their output should not be used to tweak the phases before stacking. As > Paul mentioned earlier, stacking a large enough number of tweaked-phase > data sets will eventually produce any desired decode from pure noise. > I understand Markus. I made that statement without brain engaged. EbNaut isn't like some other modes :) Dex --001a113fe52239afb005616d1bdb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Markus Vester <<= a href=3D"mailto:markusvester@aol.com" target=3D"_blank">markusvester@aol.c= om> wrote:
Hi D= ex,

correlation processing is relatively cheap, so no harm done ;-)<= br>
> No stacking allowed when message is known.

I politely di= sagree. A decode made after=C2=A0stacking blindly with constant phase and w= eights (or weights derived solely from noise level)=C2=A0hasn't made us= e of a priori information of the correct result.=C2=A0Correlations=C2=A0are= ok, but their output=C2=A0should not be used to tweak the phases before st= acking. As Paul mentioned earlier, stacking a large enough number of tweake= d-phase data sets=C2=A0will=C2=A0eventually produce any desired decode from= pure noise.=C2=A0

I unders= tand Markus.=C2=A0 I made that statement without brain engaged.=C2=A0 EbNau= t isn't like some other modes=C2=A0 :)

Dex=C2= =A0
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