Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id vBBBClRd025214 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 12:12:50 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1eOLvx-0006xV-6l for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:07:41 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1eOLvw-0006xM-Oj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:07:40 +0000 Received: from mail-wr0-x233.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c0c::233]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eOLvt-0003MN-Me for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:07:39 +0000 Received: by mail-wr0-x233.google.com with SMTP id y21so17145563wrc.1 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 03:07:37 -0800 (PST) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=gmail.com Result=Good and Known Domain DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=d2d2MPfhQhVBNtKbuRd3jep9Yi1p5g4NgXiWDJ8bR4Q=; b=GaX3xYeY+9mMdeHkAdvSireVxRafc+TJYDvQ4FfYAJz+ctOnn60R9ohcAx6DB5U4J3 SQu8Xe3TGLUvxgptiiWh6NvJWV2L/PsXCbZ6h6pGU9w8k/qI68GNJLPkurrhw9R6vIf9 ETw56oCvvwt033CNt+ESUJtkp6rURUszHllO76ubWaunv120T0BQKjQe0DRWLSqUpIgN sUOm4CKeOIt73MiUbItyat+7cXkds3jE/RWgrAGwvPF0tBwQGTtPnVYN7rS9a7hlSsgJ Y1cBu04adkOWzXZE+t1l4fcOvc+HeEpduB7QlVeiZAYXa9kPFNuc8XU+WblY6yTbhr4R rldw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=d2d2MPfhQhVBNtKbuRd3jep9Yi1p5g4NgXiWDJ8bR4Q=; b=gQgxS255IHGuC1ap7IhjhQx73oVAR8lMVjikcY0WVpbS5Qhhe7YVZHcoWxyhlSwPnj MLf4HJ8c2P2zwfeEvy8qP1hWGoyuK6rB9ey3Pap2Fos/vVs/DYZqAp0ZLQqGwEuo4Sym 2oJpJncfiUu3ufGhMlSPDamGZn/qqVOX0vGBPP09113xBpCnkICxqQ9K21GQNm7d+oqV dMoZzOkYvWxWiRYM4THZlD0EkyLEBG6mtTHyZBBjY4mySUsQqF4Lsiaf/hJIvFpzzQ7F 9Z180mYgpczhj3rfcffjGCXLI5fvBhDkjgh7IaEctX/afWvXIva75Avi748SfTNDBYQd 6SiQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mKcb6q2NFCci7n/8AbxknOgKTQaDyrmjAoSgYIBuFOYq8Jeqs4v K018HlGBBKwDdBOnfXa1+a5ysYe3 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBoseOR6UPaZ1BJxFJI8cHcbtLL80NxqnyaYYG97uejEfj8vzG8S3Ohaye4kq6Uh1dUcC3hAScg== X-Received: by 10.223.199.82 with SMTP id b18mr14344wrh.78.1512990456679; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 03:07:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([82.98.23.94]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q15sm16172644wra.91.2017.12.11.03.07.33 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 11 Dec 2017 03:07:35 -0800 (PST) From: John Rabson Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 12:07:25 +0100 References: <2dbcd2a8-0109-41e4-c0ca-aada17f54de8@abelian.org> <1fc8e54e-50f6-3fef-ee8c-f8848304f719@abelian.org> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <1fc8e54e-50f6-3fef-ee8c-f8848304f719@abelian.org> Message-Id: <9E6F2377-71BD-439E-8484-60716A269C7B@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: With reference to the propagation charts, perhaps one of our Swedish friends could arrange to borrow the SAQ antenna system from time to time? John F5VLF > On 11 Dec 2017, at 11:41, Paul Nicholson wrote: > > > Jacek wrote: > > > could you give a short explanation? i don't really understand > > nonreciprocal propagation > > I don't either, really. The ionospheric reflection > coefficient depends on the direction of the radio wave relative > to the Earth's magnetic field. The wave accelerates free > electrons in the plasma, and they're pulled into circular or > helical paths by the magnetic field. This alters the phase of > the reflection and the attenuation of the wave through energy > loss by collisions. > > The consequence is the reflection coefficient isn't a nice > simple number, it's a 2x2 matrix with each component a > (frequency dependent) complex number. > > It's all the in Appleton-Hartree equations > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appleton%E2%80%93Hartree_equation > > which are quite easy to calculate and program (easier than > they look at first glance) but few people would admit to > understanding them. > > Spent some time with LWPC measuring the T/A path at some > different frequencies. The figures below are the extra loss > on the east-to-west, compared with west-to-east. > > The results don't depend much on which end points I choose, > but are quite frequency dependent: > > Midnight UTC: > > 18.0 kHz: 2 dB > 17.4 kHz: 3 dB > 16.5 kHz: 6 dB > 16.0 kHz: 9 dB > 15.0 kHz: 14 dB > 14.0 kHz: 18 dB > 13.0 kHz: 16 dB > 12.0 kHz: 13 dB > 11.0 kHz: 11 dB > 10.0 kHz: 10 dB > 9.0 kHz: 10 dB > 8.2 kHz: 12 dB > 5.2 kHz: 27 dB > 4.2 kHz: 44 dB > 2.9 kHz: LWPC doesn't run > > Generally a lot more anisotropy as the frequency drops, > but there's a funny peak around 14 kHz. > > Midday UTC: > > 18.0 kHz: 4 dB > 17.4 kHz: 4 dB > 16.0 kHz: 5 dB > 15.0 kHz: 5 dB > 14.0 kHz: 6 dB > 13.0 kHz: 7 dB > 12.0 kHz: 8 dB > 11.0 kHz: 9 dB > 10.0 kHz: 10 dB > 9.0 kHz: 12 dB > 8.2 kHz: 14 dB > 5.2 kHz: 35 dB > 4.2 kHz: no output from LWPC > > The funny peak vanishes during the day. > > So, nowhere near as much anisotropy as I thought at > 17.4 kHz. I don't [...] Content analysis details: (0.3 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.2 FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT Envelope-from freemail username ends in digit (john.rabson07[at]gmail.com) 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (john.rabson07[at]gmail.com) 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: cd16d8c2fb75309db133b7de4adb1391 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: VLF: Transatlantic success East to West X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by klubnl.pl id vBBBClRd025214 With reference to the propagation charts, perhaps one of our Swedish friends could arrange to borrow the SAQ antenna system from time to time? John F5VLF > On 11 Dec 2017, at 11:41, Paul Nicholson wrote: > > > Jacek wrote: > > > could you give a short explanation? i don't really understand > > nonreciprocal propagation > > I don't either, really. The ionospheric reflection > coefficient depends on the direction of the radio wave relative > to the Earth's magnetic field. The wave accelerates free > electrons in the plasma, and they're pulled into circular or > helical paths by the magnetic field. This alters the phase of > the reflection and the attenuation of the wave through energy > loss by collisions. > > The consequence is the reflection coefficient isn't a nice > simple number, it's a 2x2 matrix with each component a > (frequency dependent) complex number. > > It's all the in Appleton-Hartree equations > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appleton%E2%80%93Hartree_equation > > which are quite easy to calculate and program (easier than > they look at first glance) but few people would admit to > understanding them. > > Spent some time with LWPC measuring the T/A path at some > different frequencies. The figures below are the extra loss > on the east-to-west, compared with west-to-east. > > The results don't depend much on which end points I choose, > but are quite frequency dependent: > > Midnight UTC: > > 18.0 kHz: 2 dB > 17.4 kHz: 3 dB > 16.5 kHz: 6 dB > 16.0 kHz: 9 dB > 15.0 kHz: 14 dB > 14.0 kHz: 18 dB > 13.0 kHz: 16 dB > 12.0 kHz: 13 dB > 11.0 kHz: 11 dB > 10.0 kHz: 10 dB > 9.0 kHz: 10 dB > 8.2 kHz: 12 dB > 5.2 kHz: 27 dB > 4.2 kHz: 44 dB > 2.9 kHz: LWPC doesn't run > > Generally a lot more anisotropy as the frequency drops, > but there's a funny peak around 14 kHz. > > Midday UTC: > > 18.0 kHz: 4 dB > 17.4 kHz: 4 dB > 16.0 kHz: 5 dB > 15.0 kHz: 5 dB > 14.0 kHz: 6 dB > 13.0 kHz: 7 dB > 12.0 kHz: 8 dB > 11.0 kHz: 9 dB > 10.0 kHz: 10 dB > 9.0 kHz: 12 dB > 8.2 kHz: 14 dB > 5.2 kHz: 35 dB > 4.2 kHz: no output from LWPC > > The funny peak vanishes during the day. > > So, nowhere near as much anisotropy as I thought at > 17.4 kHz. I don't fancy our chances at the lower > VLF bands - it might be easier to take the long path! > > -- > Paul Nicholson > -- >