Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id vAAIpY3w024293 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2017 19:51:37 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1eDEI4-0003Om-K8 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2017 18:44:32 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1eDEI3-0003Od-RO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2017 18:44:31 +0000 Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.194]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eDEI0-0004wC-Uu for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2017 18:44:30 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.125] ([72.224.254.201]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus001 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 0LwYMD-1fILsj0Cqt-018DPB for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2017 19:44:26 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <22d6c712-43af-3a5d-099e-adb285f086a1@n1bug.com> <7d1279b6d1a84b692d281d48901f2b23@xs4all.nl> <5A03089B.6060600@posteo.de> From: N1BUG Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2017 13:44:24 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5A03089B.6060600@posteo.de> Content-Language: en-US X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:CS+4b1nAzzsL1YAi7eCjsBzw72VZ0Dyp8wCYGZBc8gLMLcMHH0P 0gfS70z1HDRlc2O/lJ99OwddP3wJ6NfTU3nswgbOZyVyRFR4okiDqKNmR3unOT6n9id3dfW wa2y3BcV7KJCYL4IjcmKuHVgT72TjwZoSnBe5/SaDKKBcPUoGsRFSTWEPc3DeizrYPTtoxN l5oTVN4LpiqIU8nrz2LmQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:we9kjV5lPv8=:d7DGgm9cRY6U45PMeD/x7U LpmHep3Snp5fmMqgCy0WR+AJ5OCv5fZxO7kjntQS7MCnVyWh6thMoitdPX8nbbhOpjY0IRNZG sKgFAnQrhOqmhrDw7HAyGrwmnChNcPSBYY3kLDSafhKF1zBwwsVaqXeMNKn9DRfxGtNyr2M2r yVJ4ctZGYeSn2FopYqZJVfauPT00tLWCjQX/F1J5MygkAFpIUemlpT/eUwrFLMR/Ef8Hc2h60 +25C/UW91Dc2mpxmVVjKHlqwsXa7wjcdKSYbgnBrrxO4czBH8NQeURw9QWt2WPJB4vDpvjMPO aadCUW3YCUpchv01tEl365uN924/RJReCo/ceVQ1FC/m4/oUSXDl7ZgEmWz7q5lXnAoaTIot3 5uEa10YmxpEgM1rUY/WWtM0Hkd9XW2WvoHMJ9Kc7rlG2tCm02Mv/IbfVjPM6iPE/Y60MLrhZY fzzEdsc7BmW/gj3fr7J+kkM/KPt0NVCoAZZ4ujR4LuuBdVNjKjveDu++ZsU0+TdjzUoN3gKd3 Vr9FSWxtkBNlDvGtKpFzIOZIW3IT8FgnsonUgJdgwA2mmB4C4e3Fm1PlCGa8Tdn6/VAchKtl8 mImbtVCCo6k2m7EyrvtX8QGn11EVSlG0VTpb5V74kSZZPKJQeG3okFYwYv9gGVohOy6nGKaz2 0qUgOVA/L9qoxhZxq//Cfej4vsBArt8o4Qmqy/WQ4K9LfToJojGwPrzYlndoggeHhp6PIhMUi P21RUiBUE0o86tAbP9/iz0t6btDcwiNmdm3fKqlbwMS2oTAkBF/k8p9Va38= X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Stefan, Your answer is not late at all. After working very hard on antennas the past days I am just now getting back to the little PA. About RF choke in the supply line: This is something I don't understand about most of the LF/MF PA designs I have looked at. I don't see such a choke in any of them! If I do see one, it is just a few uH. Why don't all LF/MA PAs need a big choke in the +DC lead? [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- X-Scan-Signature: 195b836cb7437e99aa05107459888659 Subject: Re: LF: PA problem Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Hi Stefan, Your answer is not late at all. After working very hard on antennas the past days I am just now getting back to the little PA. About RF choke in the supply line: This is something I don't understand about most of the LF/MF PA designs I have looked at. I don't see such a choke in any of them! If I do see one, it is just a few uH. Why don't all LF/MA PAs need a big choke in the +DC lead? So today I put in a new FET. I set the bias so it draws 10 mA at idle. Several people suggested I start there. With my Fluke DMM between the power supply and the PA I got 20 watts RF output but efficiency was very poor. The FET was generating a lot of heat! I removed the DMM but left everything else exactly as it was. Now I had only 17 watts RF output but the FET was running cold. This is very similar to results I obtained some days ago. So I started to probe around with the scope. I see a somewhat distorted sine wave at the gate, a much greater amplitude distorted sine wave at the drain, same at the PA RF output. I see a nice clean sine wave at the other side of the LPF. But I see a lot of RF (36 volts peak to peak) at the +13.8V power connection to the PA! Surely it is not supposed to put 36V peak to peak RF on the power supply!? That seems crazy to me. So either it does need a big choke there, or something is wrong with it. I didn't do any experiments with different bypass capacitors yet. I do not see any signs of oscillation with my 100 MHz scope but who knows. 73, Paul N1BUG On 11/08/2017 08:37 AM, DK7FC wrote: > Hi Paul, > > My answer may be a bit late. > > It sounds to me like a EMC issue. A RF choke is needed in the supply > line. 1 mH may be a good choice. And i would add a 1000 uF electrolytic > capacitor with a low internal resistance (the good ones :-) ) near the > Drain, in parallel to the 1 uF capacitor. > > A few more arguments: It is not ideal to drive a class E with a linear > signal. It is better (regarding efficiency) to use a hard keying by > using a MOSFET driver such as ICL7667, TC4422 or so. A class E is not a > design for linear modes, it is for a constant output power, good for > QRSS/DFCW, CW, WSPR, OPERA, EbNaut... > > I would recommend to build a class D PA. You can use the existing > components. A class D is much less critical regarding matching (SWR) and > the efficiency can be in a range of > 90% at LF as well... > > 73, Stefan