Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id vAAMgm5m024975 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2017 23:42:49 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1eDHvf-00045L-N7 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2017 22:37:39 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1eDHve-00045C-Sk for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2017 22:37:38 +0000 Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.197]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eDHvc-00060o-0j for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2017 22:37:37 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.125] ([72.224.254.201]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus003 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 0LsiHH-1fFWYG0bov-012Jb8 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2017 23:37:33 +0100 From: N1BUG To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <22d6c712-43af-3a5d-099e-adb285f086a1@n1bug.com> <7d1279b6d1a84b692d281d48901f2b23@xs4all.nl> <5A03089B.6060600@posteo.de> <5A05FF90.6000106@posteo.de> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2017 17:37:32 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:r+/GxLQFRw5nD09mI/2C6vhHe47linsZZTTkEBJCHVZfTMHeute rULtfWwtABwHJ1FDoHe7LHN/Zh/CxxTyzaB/7w0X1kYZfOZ6dRnPHLImF428yOeSKeRYLYN iPXewVA589ZWzhLQMAA+Mtzsq5X1kKKjaz0JQokQpu2ts0Tn7I1dVjyNdPAcjOGsggv16xN g6MwYmtw2BKipEhlDfSaw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:dq4akFr6WtM=:7FvPnMpqK4bsSJnJr/rEok 0slzC1bQIQKbM5HHyJwN0Bc7LXymSqAjnWgcLbfwMyU9ta8zqaX0UPSVPoholmiz78NMDwp2m MDVdMN+rIzfik/as63JpgBOT5dC2ccGNofPFxOg5ld3lH9+AyWzMcD9dvfz/Bxqds5Spum93u v/SGQIpZF/tosLDb6ClN+CuhNEms9/Z6hyBPV5DjJPu1DKv150jgTrjrraXtnZQrx6zhHA/jM DfoCjZTE+wYMjDEFjWAJWrKt6oyeBiiI4qAhZdMO7oThHWw1N1YwUwWPelCvbIsI7z396uG99 e69pWkaWA/fPBVxz9XrKp77sB62jnSwUC2PZzECYcHZTWaivpAXl0YtcCidZZ75iSrvyIBAkH 3C9kZStuQdA+DJpSgXlmsjrTz6wBLMq4wJ/6C8XTDpUzQ46DqgS4Ub4gEdnkdPbWEKJmUr+Kx +D+PRrzwSQf9lgG4US3UHvE9gWAfI8ndc5/xL5A0h+N62y9BsdwouBQBYaTzbgGDatJ5H14af ZRkFb9b+jrc0ASggdSyF6sQlsC83XU9ccAyTnV8Esvk/+5hYp7GOVq3VQv+DPvp4RpBjNo2Em 9l+UYgD3yZleMgsP7KJxLrHtyud3xiO+tWt+8BR8uBOenGUGHf6EJoU3CwOguFjrHeIgN32Vm wcI+Yv6nhI5u2yv8cnXb5bJTs1HeXsAU/ujhvmZX9HQIeUN1donlvrG+rWV4gBxRWZ8iUwzXx gEW2ewvfr7RmrhJY+I7ZQLdDEz3bCOiUmHQza9MhIAjt9admY1nN6hF7Aps= X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: So as a final test today I put a 50 uH choke and then a bypass capacitor on the power supply side of it. With 100 uF I (oddly) found 2V pk-pk RF on the power supply. So it is worse with the choke plus bypass capacitor than with just the bypass capacitor alone??? [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- X-Scan-Signature: d7fcd9b75df8d1b09ddef9df028bd9ae Subject: Re: LF: PA problem Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false So as a final test today I put a 50 uH choke and then a bypass capacitor on the power supply side of it. With 100 uF I (oddly) found 2V pk-pk RF on the power supply. So it is worse with the choke plus bypass capacitor than with just the bypass capacitor alone??? With 330 uF it was better. With 1000 uF better still. Finally with 2200uF there is only about 100 mV pk-pk RF there. That is the best I have seen so far. The amp seems happy. It is producing 25W RF output which is the most I have seen. Efficiency comes out to about 70% with bias well below the point of any idling current. The drain waveform is hard to describe... looks a square wave with rounded edges and some other irregularities... but at least there are no big spikes. Now there is no change when I insert / remove the DMM from the power supply lead. By the way I am driving it with a sine wave. Maybe tomorrow I will try a square wave to see what that does. 73, Paul N1BUG On 11/10/2017 04:53 PM, N1BUG wrote: > OK. I understand the problems with having RF reach the meter and > power supply. > > To be honest I don't fully understand what you are suggesting with a > very small coil (few uH at best) and capacitor... > > On my own lack of knowledge I put a 1.2 mH choke in the DC supply > lead at the amplifier. This made very little reduction in RF I was > seeing on the DC side of the choke! > > So I put a big (1000 uF) capacitor to ground from the DC side of the > choke. That removed all the RF there but make the amplifier output > dirty. Seemed maybe it went into some lower frequency oscillation. I > tried 330 uF, which seemed to make it dirty for a couple of seconds, > then it cleaned up. With 100 uF it is always clean and there is very > little RF component on the DC supply lead. > > It seems almost as good to have the 100 uF capacitor but remove the > big choke. Maybe this is what you were saying, that a big choke is > not needed. I will try replacing it with just a few uH and see what > happens. > > It's supposed to be a class AB2 amplifier I guess, but when set for > any amount of idling current, efficiency is extremely poor. About > 30%. If I set the bias lower, well below the point where it draws > any idling current, efficiency becomes about 80%. As I understand > it, the circuit is not correct for class E but that seems to be how > it wants to run. > > 73, > Paul