Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id v9OInoSj019955 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 20:49:52 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1e744V-0008Dn-GI for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 19:37:03 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1e742E-0008DW-AW for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 19:34:42 +0100 Received: from smtp-out-5.talktalk.net ([62.24.135.69]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1e7426-0008VG-4d for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 19:34:36 +0100 Received: from [IPv6:::ffff:192.168.1.5] ([92.22.161.230]) by smtp.talktalk.net with SMTP id 7423edTZ6pb8r7423ehaen; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 19:34:32 +0100 X-DKIM-Result: Domain=talktalk.net Result=Signature OK DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=talktalk.net; s=1605; t=1508870072; bh=opRspHi7sCoSJ7RKQdiMjz0Ht1Cn76IlhJRkYPw+DJE=; h=To:From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=agPr6JrjAQ05FNUT9nYdbdNGoZzu+a0emoZopfCn3e29i+cIvLzHC7fsXIBK3ndyK DJfY8+Rv1kmWTiDIbfauz02VZd4IFXScGoCQrtFQjO0RPIvVBn5UGMtU4WKrcFqA1L 6c/B+z8APPGXV/nZuKNXaJDrxwL4hBO5pEmM940A= X-Originating-IP: [92.22.161.230] X-Spam: 0 X-OAuthority: v=2.2 cv=ZM2noTzb c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=JEsFdmRHprjDn+BFwyaZ2w==:117 a=JEsFdmRHprjDn+BFwyaZ2w==:17 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=C_IRinGWAAAA:8 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=ivnXqhBVAAAA:8 a=YUaZcpyLI8LnsOYiWh4A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=z-ZlURCTj6UA:10 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=GqkRZ_mWostPSs4zE84A:9 a=Fpv3NsfAO8XpK6Z-:21 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=slCku8JSH3TyizEDQ3pD:22 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" From: mal hamilton Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 19:34:34 +0100 Importance: normal X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: References: <46184300.20171024141617@gmail.com> X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfNJbrzX+Q8Sg4NXCxsxIyYEL6WITkKWAXxrAqVi1tqUIdMU6kiF3Fg5Hz6QiqUFGEHkzfsmNtyMfKOoF0xqnE4FQGquKaT4b/LgEr5beYNU4iPSdApvJ l+Umfrj5dJAzNEmMQ9zDVmPJnOhqdHiIUZMqEsFHlK+LAF+bQbt3bBVK/RuxpZPkiSXJqubt5+QXJnTc4lY7Dg7gd6PNujuc6XI= X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi JAY Yes the problem is often a RX problem as you say. On 472 Khz I am being received at +20 dB by a station and no sidebands are visible but another station receiving me at +12 dB shows 100 hz sidebands and I would suggest his RX/interface is the problem My signal monitored on a scope es spectrum analyser is a clean sine wave and well within spec 73 de mal/g3kev [...] Content analysis details: (1.8 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 1.6 SUBJ_ALL_CAPS Subject is all capitals 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 MISSING_MID Missing Message-Id: header 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 80e63e173fa93b7854d61e1697120204 Message-Id: Subject: RE: LF: MF/160 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_AC562352-5066-43E7-9E60-1A65EF563D57_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, PRIORITY_NO_NAME,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false --_AC562352-5066-43E7-9E60-1A65EF563D57_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi JAY Yes the problem is often a RX problem as you say. On 472 Khz I am being received at +20 dB by a station and no sidebands are = visible but another station receiving me at +12 dB shows 100 hz sidebands a= nd I would suggest his RX/interface is the problem My signal monitored on a scope es spectrum analyser is a clean sine wave an= d well within spec 73 de mal/g3kev Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: jrusgrove@comcast.net Sent: 24 October 2017 15:15 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: MF/160 The problem can also be on the receive station end ... i.e. not using an is= olation transformer between receiver and sound card input if ground loops are present. Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Chris Wilson" To: "dhchurch" Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 9:16 AM Subject: Re: LF: MF/160 Hello Hugh, I am assuming the regular transmission you refer to is mine Hugh? In case you or anyone else here thinks I have ignored your multi frequency reports, I have not. I have, in recent weeks, used a G0MRF amp, a G3YXM and my W1VD amp, all of which have their own dedicated LPF assemblies. I have used U3S exciter, and used my Kenwood TS-590 as well. I have used each of them on a SMPS, two high end commercial linear supplies, and on a bank of car batteries, and have tried two different matching transformer arrangements and two different loading coils. You still see multiple TX frequencies from me, only their level changes, which is expected as the amps have different power capabilities. I also have SA screen shots from an in calibration HP8568B analyser which shows sidebands to be well down and no real spurious emissions. So, I feel have gone the extra mile in time and cost to address this and short of moving I am at a loss to as to what more I can do and why you see this, when other very close stations apparently do not, and nothing untoward shows on the G3YXM grabber which isn't that far away from me. Regards, Chris Wilson Monday, October 23, 2017, 8:07:18 PM, you wrote: > > > Hello Andy > > The idea of using any SMPS in, or near, the shack is somewhat > abhorrent. It is possible to introduce a series circuit in a linear > PSU which is not exactly a regulator but has a hum cancellation > circuit, something that used to appear in an ancient National > Semiconductor publication. I'd love to try it but just haven't left > any room in my PSUs, they're stuffed full, including a cooling fan. > A couple of 100Hz side bands are at least predictable, my PA has, > but there is one regular transmission on LF which has all manner of > spurii making reception here somewhat variable. > > I think Dave, GW8GLO, has a system which promptly knocks off his > transmitter SMPS when going into Rx mode, maybe this is the way to go. > > 73, Hugh, M0DSZ > > > ----- Receiving the following content ----- > From: Andy Talbot > Receiver: rsgb_lf_group > Time: 2017-10-23, 10:12:17 > Subject: Re: Re: LF: MF/160 > > > > > Its a difficult call - I have a similar problem with my 700 Watt > 137kHz Tx.=E3=80=80 =E3=80=8030dB hum sidebands corresponds to 3% ripple,= which in > the main scheme of things is not that much.=E3=80=80 =E3=80=80It would= need an > enormous reservoir capacitor to make a serious reduction.=E3=80=80=E3= =80=80 > > Either that or design the Tx to run from 50V and use a SMPSU instead of = raw rectified AC > > > Andy=E3=80=80 G4JNT > > On 23 October 2017 at 10:03, dhchurch wrote: > > > > Mal, I think a little attention should be paid to, perhaps, your > power supply.=E3=80=80The 100Hz sidebands, as I recall from earlier > this week, should be much lower in level. Seen on Spectrum > Lab=E3=80=80at one stage, they were less than -30dB in comparative l= evel.=E3=80=80 > =E3=80=80 > 73, Hugh, M0DSZ --=20 Best regards, Chris mailto:dead.fets@gmail.com --_AC562352-5066-43E7-9E60-1A65EF563D57_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"

Hi JAY

Yes t= he problem is often a RX problem as you say.

On 472= Khz I am being received at +20 dB by a station and no sidebands are visibl= e but another station receiving me at +12 dB shows 100 hz sidebands and I w= ould suggest his RX/interface is the problem

My sig= nal monitored on a scope es spectrum analyser is a clean sine wave and well= within spec

73 de mal/g3kev

 

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

&nbs= p;

From: jrusgrove@comcast.net
Sent: 24 October 2017 15:15
= To: rsgb_lf_group@bl= acksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: MF/160

 

The problem can also be on = the receive station end ... i.e. not using an isolation transformer

between receiver and sound card input if ground loops are = present.

 

= Jay W1VD=C2=A0 WD2XNS=C2=A0 WE2XGR/2

 

 

-----= Original Message -----

From: "Chris Wilson&q= uot; <dead.fets@gmail.com>

To: "dhchurch= " <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>

Sent: T= uesday, October 24, 2017 9:16 AM

Subject: Re: LF: M= F/160

 

 

Hello Hugh,

=  

I am assuming the regular transmi= ssion you refer to is mine Hugh? In

case you or any= one else here thinks I have ignored your multi

freq= uency reports, I have not. I have, in recent weeks, used a G0MRF

amp, a G3YXM and my W1VD amp, all of which have their own ded= icated

LPF assemblies. I have used U3S exciter, and= used my Kenwood TS-590 as

well. I have used each o= f them on a SMPS, two high end commercial

linear su= pplies, and on a bank of car batteries, and have tried two

different matching transformer arrangements and two different loadi= ng

coils. You still see multiple TX frequencies fro= m me, only their level

changes, which is expected a= s the amps have different power

capabilities.

 

 

I also have SA screen shots from an in calibrat= ion HP8568B analyser

which shows sidebands to be we= ll down and no real spurious emissions.

So, I feel = have gone the extra mile in time and cost to address this

and short of moving I am at a loss to as to what more I can do and w= hy

you=C2=A0 see=C2=A0 this,=C2=A0 when other very = close stations apparently do not, and

nothing=C2=A0= untoward shows on the G3YXM grabber which isn't that far away

from me.

 

Regards, Chris Wilson

 

Monday, October 23, 2017, 8:07:18 PM, you wrote:<= /p>

 

>=  

> 

> Hello Andy

> 

> The idea of using any SMPS in, or near, the shack i= s somewhat

> abhorrent. It is possible to introd= uce a series circuit in a linear

> PSU which is= =C2=A0 not exactly a regulator but has a hum cancellation

> circuit, something that used=C2=A0 to appear in an ancient Nati= onal

> Semiconductor publication. I'd love to tr= y it=C2=A0 but just haven't left

> any room in m= y PSUs, they're stuffed full, including a=C2=A0 cooling fan.

> A couple of 100Hz side bands are at least predictable, my PA= has,

> but there is one regular transmission on= LF which has all manner of

> spurii=C2=A0 makin= g reception here somewhat variable.

> =

> I think Dave, GW8GLO, has a system whic= h promptly knocks off his

> transmitter SMPS whe= n going into Rx mode, maybe this is the way to go.

= > 

> 73, Hugh, M0DSZ

> 

>&nbs= p;

> -----=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Receiving the= following content -----

> From:=C2=A0=C2=A0 And= y Talbot

> Receiver:=C2=A0=C2=A0 rsgb_lf_group

> Time:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2017-10-23, 10:12:17

> Subject:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Re: Re: LF: MF/160

 

>&n= bsp;

> 

> 

> 

> Its a difficult call - I have a similar problem= with my 700 Watt

> 137kHz Tx.=E3=80=80 =E3=80=8030dB hum sidebands corresponds = to 3% ripple, which in

> the main=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 scheme of things is not that much.=E3=80=80 =E3=80=80=E3=80=80

 

>&= nbsp;

> Either that or design the Tx to ru= n from 50V and use a SMPSU instead of=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 raw rectified AC

> 

&n= bsp;

> 

> Andy=E3=80= =80 G4JNT

 

> 

> On 23 October 20= 17 at 10:03, dhchurch <dhchurch@lineone.net> wrote:

> 

> <= /p>

> 

> = Mal, I think a little attention should be paid to, perhaps, your

> power=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 supply.=E3=80=80The 100Hz sideband= s, as I recall from earlier

> this week, should = be=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 much lower in level. Seen on Spectrum

<= p class=3DMsoNormal>> Lab=E3=80=80at one stage, they were less than=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 -30dB in comparative level.=E3=80=80

> =E3=80=80

> 73, Hugh, M0DSZ

 

 

 <= /p>

 

&nbs= p;

 

=  

 

 

--

Best regards,

Chris=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 mailto:dead.fe= ts@gmail.com

 

 

 

 

= --_AC562352-5066-43E7-9E60-1A65EF563D57_--