Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id v9E9Tmn1008701 for ; Sat, 14 Oct 2017 11:29:51 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1e3IYN-0005M1-T3 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Oct 2017 10:16:19 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1e3IYM-0005Ls-SB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Oct 2017 10:16:18 +0100 Received: from omr-a018e.mx.aol.com ([204.29.186.64]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1e3IYJ-0004e1-QY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Oct 2017 10:16:17 +0100 Received: from mtaomg-aag02.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-aag02.mx.aol.com [172.26.126.80]) by omr-a018e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id CBAAF3800097 for ; Sat, 14 Oct 2017 05:16:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-acd01b.mail.aol.com (core-acd01.mail.aol.com [172.27.22.11]) by mtaomg-aag02.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 820B938000082 for ; Sat, 14 Oct 2017 05:16:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 188.192.44.165 by webjas-vab188.srv.aolmail.net (10.96.18.191) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 14 Oct 2017 05:16:13 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2017 05:16:13 -0400 From: Markus Vester To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-Id: <15f1a2b68d0-c0a-18870@webjas-vab188.srv.aolmail.net> In-Reply-To: <50b0a7b4-a6e6-398d-ea56-dbe66490d1b8@abelian.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: JAS STD X-Originating-IP: [188.192.44.165] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1507972573; bh=L7oO5k4KS/hTUSWgMVle8NVjo+Mjbb72BhQXbP18tNQ=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=WYK5Xk0e8sVEII1yYotBSiSatwaoFAoUUY2wTtGoLC0PMy58YVTUwUvepbNCsebMH KnFzS52siyDRkpWa75s7ouC5RwqEfslF6uskzhQA+YfCgjEBlrWAZ4SHMB6avGzjCX i6lmuRey76cLJEhg61o/pzoSqibnmr7bA4tHkIIA= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1a7e5059e1d5dd1068 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Paul, when working with wav files that are too short, we find that Eb/N0 based on symbol error rate is usually shown too low. I think that you mentioned a while ago that although non-existing symbols are completely ignored by the decoding process itself, they are counted as "always wrong" in the error statistics. Wouldn't it be more fair to assume 50% error rate for missing data? [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (markusvester[at]aol.com) -0.0 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 896f9ee4f10c5db37812c155e804756d Subject: Re: VLF: Trying the impossible, once more - symbol error rate for short data Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_127063_1114471683.1507972573392" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false ------=_Part_127063_1114471683.1507972573392 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Paul, when working with wav files that are too short, we find that Eb/N0 based on= symbol error rate is usually shown too low. I think that you mentioned a w= hile ago that although non-existing symbols are completely ignored by the d= ecoding process itself, they are counted as "always wrong" in the error sta= tistics. Wouldn't it be more fair to assume 50% error rate for missing data= ? Best 73, Markus -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----=20 Von: Paul Nicholson An: rsgb_lf_group Verschickt: Fr, 13. Okt 2017 0:38 Betreff: Re: VLF: Trying the impossible, once more Stefan wrote: > f =3D 6470.100000 Hz > Start time: 12.October.2017 06:00:00 UTC > Symbol period: 180 s > Characters: 1 > CRC bits: 0 > Coding 8K19A A great signal in Todmorden, Eb/N0 =3D 15.9, phase -114.3. Has the potential to go a long way! It actually decodes correctly here after only 980 seconds of signal, about 5.5 symbols out of 192. -- Paul Nicholson -- ------=_Part_127063_1114471683.1507972573392 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Paul,

when working with wav files that are too= short, we find that Eb/N0 based on symbol error rate is usu= ally shown too low. I think that you mentioned a while ago that although no= n-existing symbols are completely ignored by the decoding process itself, t= hey are counted as "always wrong" in the error statistics. Wouldn't it be m= ore fair to assume 50% error rate for missing data?

Best 7= 3,
Markus


-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: Pa= ul Nicholson <vlf0403@abelian.org>
An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_g= roup@blacksheep.org>
Verschickt: Fr, 13. Okt 2017 0:38
Betreff: Re= : VLF: Trying the impossible, once more


Stefan wrote:
<= br> > f =3D 6470.100000 Hz
> Start time: 12.October.2017 06:00:0= 0 UTC
> Symbol period: 180 s
> Characters: 1
> CRC bit= s: 0
> Coding 8K19A

A great signal in Todmorden, Eb/N0 =3D 15= .9, phase -114.3.

Has the potential to go a long way! It actually = decodes
correctly here after only 980 seconds of signal, about 5.5
sy= mbols out of 192.

--
Paul Nicholson
--

------=_Part_127063_1114471683.1507972573392--