Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id v989x2he018801 for ; Sun, 8 Oct 2017 11:59:03 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1e18HF-0003A0-5e for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Oct 2017 10:53:41 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1e18HE-00039r-98 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Oct 2017 10:53:40 +0100 Received: from omr-m007e.mx.aol.com ([204.29.186.9]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1e18HA-0006WT-5Q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Oct 2017 10:53:39 +0100 Received: from mtaomg-aad01.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-aad01.mx.aol.com [172.26.127.227]) by omr-m007e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 1164D380009D for ; Sun, 8 Oct 2017 05:53:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-acd04h.mail.aol.com (core-acd04.mail.aol.com [172.27.22.14]) by mtaomg-aad01.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id B066638000081 for ; Sun, 8 Oct 2017 05:53:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 188.192.44.165 by webjas-vad027.srv.aolmail.net (10.96.35.30) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sun, 08 Oct 2017 05:53:31 -0400 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2017 05:53:32 -0400 From: Markus Vester To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-Id: <15efb6767cd-c0e-24abd@webjas-vad027.srv.aolmail.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: JAS STD X-Originating-IP: [188.192.44.165] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1507456413; bh=7DTXE/VxZkiGjOUHB7VtGI9G9C8/Gh6r5D57jEx4GV4=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=iev9+OjQif4szdqoPmX5gwvAKoe2vpsTdOtW4yF90Tk02TzJ0duObQi0Y8jeiXdAf ipoMTc/S/S/UTyFOdgl+q5TMdCb0ODH0u+2+my24ujfVFzhf5MHYPgC5iDEZjV/qfx H16pyL8Uiac87J+yPPeDZ/UncCV9CtUX7yr5J8UE= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1a7fe359d9f59c3b73 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Jacek, Joe, > This will lead to a much cleaner signal. This may not really be an issue for our low-power VLF experiments. As long as spurious sidebands are less than say -20 dB, the main carrier will suffer only negligible energy loss. [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (markusvester[at]aol.com) -0.0 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 8ac9f0a1bced50a7ada6578ede3fb6ae Subject: Re: LF: VO1NA in Todmorden on 8270 Hz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_181780_1368467994.1507456411597" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false ------=_Part_181780_1368467994.1507456411597 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jacek, Joe, > This will lead to a much cleaner signal.=20 This may not really be an issue for our low-power VLF experiments. As long = as spurious sidebands are less than say -20 dB, the main carrier will suffe= r only negligible energy loss.=20 > 8.27015kHz is one possibility (48000kHz/5804). However this would place the signal out of range of all the grabbers - bett= er stay close to 8270.000 Hz and live with the small spurs. Of course, employing the tone from the GPS directly has the big advantage t= hat no PC, soundcard or other external hardware need to be involved. Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----=20 Von: Jacek Lipkowski An: rsgb_lf_group Verschickt: So, 8. Okt 2017 10:15 Betreff: Re: LF: VO1NA in Todmorden on 8270 Hz If you choose to use the NEO7 fractional pll output directly, then pick=20 frequencies which are 48MHz/N where N is an integer. This will lead to a=20 much cleaner signal. 8.27015kHz is one possibility (48000kHz/5804). Another option is to use Paul's ebsynth, and feed it a clean reference=20 frequency from the NEO7. I use a 20kHz reference (48000/2400). This can=20 generate an arbitrary frequency. VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF On Sat, 7 Oct 2017, Markus Vester wrote: > Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2017 17:57:36 -0400 > From: Markus Vester > Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: VO1NA in Todmorden on 8270 Hz >=20 > Hi Joe, >=20 > good to know that you are on air again. The DL0AO grabber in Amberg (East= Bavaria) includes your frequency in one of > the 31 uHz instances. >=20 > > Yes, the high wire for 630m (~5 W EIRP) and the low for 36000m. > Shouldn't that be the other way round, maximizing the important VLF radia= tion ? ;-) >=20 > > Yes, pps and NMEA to SpecLab but evidently no discipline yet > Getting the SpecLab samplerate detector to work will lock your frequency = but not the phase. To avoid the risk of > phase jumps due to soundcard glitches or buffer underruns, I would then s= trongly recommend to set up the software PLL > with audio feedback from a pickup probe. This method also has the advanta= ge of maintaining absolute > phase despite variations in the antenna circuit. But I have to admit that= setting up SpecLab that way is a bit more > involved, especially when you also want to apply PSK modulation for EbNau= t. >=20 > With the programmable ourtput frequency from the NEO7, you may have two o= ther, simpler options:=20 > - You could tell the NEO to output the desired transmit frequency directl= y. For EbNaut, you can later add the > traditional XOR or balanced mixer circuit. > - You could use the NEO with high frequency output as a clock source for = your DDS. EbNaut could be generated either > by XOR or by manipulating the DDS phase word. >=20 > Best wishes, > Markus >=20 > -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung----- > Von: jcraig > An: rsgb_lf_group > Verschickt: Sa, 7. Okt 2017 18:46 > Betreff: Re: LF: VO1NA in Todmorden on 8270 Hz >=20 > Paul Markus and Group, >=20 > Thanks Paul for the reports. The radiation gives more gratification than = the efforts to get a stable carrier. >=20 > On Sat, 7 Oct 2017, Markus Vester wrote: >=20 > > Great result! >=20 > Truly astounding that Paul can receive 10 uW at 3600km with 10+ dB S/N. >=20 > > Hmm I thought that VO1NA had been on 477 kHz during those nights. Joe a= re you transmitting MF and VLF > simultaneously, on two antennas? >=20 > Yes, the high wire for 630m (~5 W EIRP) and the low for 36000m. >=20 > > Do you already have GPS lock available on 8.27 kHz? >=20 > Yes, pps and NMEA to SpecLab but evidently no discipline yet. The pps pul= se looks strange on the SL scope and there > are 'PPS zero-crossing too > flat' debug errors on SL SR correction. This is all the NEO7M seems willi= ng to provide at the moment; connecting the > raspi3 to the tiny USB > pins on the NEO7M was fun, but otherwise unproductive. I'm hoping it's po= ssible to send commands directly to the > neo7m via usb without a special chip. >=20 > RSNTP is running on the SL pc. >=20 > 73 > Joe >=20 > > > > 73, Markus > > > > > > > > -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung----- > > Von: Paul Nicholson > > An: rsgb_lf_group > > Verschickt: Sa, 7. Okt 2017 10:36 > > Betreff: LF: VO1NA in Todmorden on 8270 Hz > > > > > > > > VO1NA on 8270.00709 is a good nighttime signal at Todmorden > > recently. Here are the last three night's spectra in 34.72 uHz > > (8 hours 23:00 to 07:00 UT) using combined E-field and H-field. > > > > http://abelian.org/vlf/tmp/171007b.gif S/N 12.6 dB > > http://abelian.org/vlf/tmp/171007c.gif S/N 14.5 dB > > http://abelian.org/vlf/tmp/171007d.gif S/N 11.4 dB > > > > Not bad for 8uW ERP at range 3575 km and an undisciplined > > OCXO. > > > > -- > > Paul Nicholson > > -- >=20 > ------=_Part_181780_1368467994.1507456411597 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Jacek, Joe,

> This will lead to a much clea= ner signal. 
This may not really be an issue for our low-power VLF = experiments. As long as spurious sidebands are less than say -20 dB, t= he main carrier will suffer only negligible energy loss. 

> = 8.27015kHz is one possibility (48000kHz/5804).
However this would place = the signal out of range of all the grabbers - better stay close to 827= 0.000 Hz and live with the small spurs.

Of course, employing the ton= e from the GPS directly has the big advantage that no PC, soundcard&nb= sp;or other external hardware need to be involved.

Best 73,
= Markus (DF6NM)



-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
V= on: Jacek Lipkowski <sq5bpf@lipkowski.org>
An: rsgb_lf_group <r= sgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Verschickt: So, 8. Okt 2017 10:15
Bet= reff: Re: LF: VO1NA in Todmorden on 8270 Hz

If you choose to u= se the NEO7 fractional pll output directly, then pick
frequencies which= are 48MHz/N where N is an integer. This will lead to a
much cleaner si= gnal. 8.27015kHz is one possibility (48000kHz/5804).

Another option = is to use Paul's ebsynth, and feed it a clean reference
frequency from = the NEO7. I use a 20kHz reference (48000/2400). This can
generate an ar= bitrary frequency.

VY 73

Jacek / SQ5BPF

On Sat, 7 Oct = 2017, Markus Vester wrote:

> Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2017 17:57:36 -0400=
> From: Markus Vester <ma= rkusvester@aol.com>
> Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>= ; Subject: Re: LF: VO1NA in Todmorden on 8270 Hz
>
> Hi Joe,>
> good to know that you are on air again. The DL0AO grabber i= n Amberg (East Bavaria) includes your frequency in one of> the 31 uHz instances.
>
> > Yes, the high wire f= or 630m (~5 W EIRP) and the low for 36000m.
> Shouldn't that be the o= ther way round, maximizing the important VLF radiation ? ;-)
> <= br>> > Yes, pps and NMEA to SpecLab but evidently no discipline yet> Getting the SpecLab samplerate detector to work will lock your frequ= ency but not the phase. To avoid the risk of
> phase jumps due to sou= ndcard glitches or buffer underruns, I would then strongly recommend t= o set up the software PLL
> with audio feedback from a pickup pr= obe. This method also has the advantage of maintaining absolute> phase despite variations in the antenna circuit. = ;But I have to admit that setting up SpecLab that way is a bit more> involved, especially when you also want to apply PSK modulation for E= bNaut.
>
> With the programmable ourtput frequency from the NE= O7, you may have two other, simpler options: 
> -= You could tell the NEO to output the desired transmit frequency direc= tly. For EbNaut, you can later add the
> traditional XOR or bala= nced mixer circuit.
> - You could use the NEO with high frequency out= put as a clock source for your DDS. EbNaut could be generated either> by XOR or by manipulating the DDS phase word.
>
> Best = wishes,
> Markus
>
> -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-= ----
> Von: jcraig <jcraig@mun.ca= >
> An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
> Verschickt: Sa, 7.= Okt 2017 18:46
> Betreff: Re: LF: VO1NA in Todmorden on 8270 Hz
&= gt;
> Paul Markus and Group,
>
> Thanks Paul for the re= ports. The radiation gives more gratification than the efforts to get a sta= ble carrier.
>
> On Sat, 7 Oct 2017, Markus Vester wrote:
&= gt;
> > Great result!
>
> Truly astounding that Paul= can receive 10 uW at 3600km with 10+ dB S/N.
>
> > Hmm I t= hought that VO1NA had been on 477 kHz during those nights. Joe are you tran= smitting MF and VLF
> simultaneously, on two antennas?
>
&g= t; Yes, the high wire for 630m (~5 W EIRP) and the low for 36000m.
> =
> > Do you already have GPS lock available on 8.27 kHz?
> <= br>> Yes, pps and NMEA to SpecLab but evidently no discipline yet. The p= ps pulse looks strange on the SL scope and there
> are 'PPS zero-cros= sing too
> flat' debug errors on SL SR correction. This is all the NE= O7M seems willing to provide at the moment; connecting the
> raspi3 t= o the tiny USB
> pins on the NEO7M was fun, but otherwise unproductiv= e. I'm hoping it's possible to send commands directly to the
> neo7m = via usb without a special chip.
>
> RSNTP is running on the SL= pc.
>
> 73
> Joe
>
> >
> > 73,= Markus
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Urspr=C3= =BCngliche Mitteilung-----
> > Von: Paul Nicholson <vlf0403@abelian.org>
> > An: rs= gb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_gro= up@blacksheep.org>
> > Verschickt: Sa, 7. Okt 2017 10:36> > Betreff: LF: VO1NA in Todmorden on 8270 Hz
> >
> = >
> >
> > VO1NA on 8270.00709 is a good nighttime sign= al at Todmorden
> > recently. Here are the last three night's spec= tra in 34.72 uHz
> > (8 hours 23:00 to 07:00 UT) using combined E-= field and H-field.
> >
> > http://abelian.org/vlf/tmp/171007b.g= if S/N 12.6 dB
> > http://abelian.org/vlf/tmp/171007c.gif S/N 14= .5 dB
> > http://abelian.org/vlf/tmp/171007d.gif S/N 11.4 dB
>= >
> > Not bad for 8uW ERP at range 3575 km and an undiscipline= d
> > OCXO.
> >
> > --
> > Paul Nichols= on
> > --
>
>
------=_Part_181780_1368467994.1507456411597--