Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN, FREEMAIL_FROM,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, SPF_PASS,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 X-Spam-DCC: INFN-TO: mailn 1233; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by lipkowski.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u1) with ESMTP id v5JEZrLI003812 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:35:54 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1dMxdl-0002yB-OM for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 15:26:53 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1dMxdk-0002y2-Ku for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 15:26:52 +0100 Received: from mail-ot0-x233.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::233]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1dMxdg-00080S-Fg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 15:26:51 +0100 Received: by mail-ot0-x233.google.com with SMTP id y47so46761094oty.0 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 07:26:48 -0700 (PDT) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=gmail.com Result=Good and Known Domain DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=72uXpDj5HOgutyUO+Z12VJDdUi0eoNBvCJdNeDkBhfo=; b=ovjwsfYOTHKB+9MoHOcmCxTMf5/ixPdGnzTfhrah2r2WBK4+1kSQIAjMRu5Dckd4yn M5Uz/XoXDLFsJMV+1UfDNUWI1ITQfeS4qWZ6y8Hpna1kZkFZf1Dt66zjpeEnQjFIhdOe K8UbnS72/YAX97ozjd9lgQI9LeOM3CmkbkRev8fe3se+/ilRcTEt87p5GyVNtBx0ghJr pSD8pcUSfz5psUzNbSY4klp1iTyHKV9LDolNovJTisxMH/n/ZJtXHH6iXXBSIUTYa1xF 2Pt4bNRo6Do5aluoW5Zuugr9oQguF3mTXhNLFwvg7aZtlyuJhMHX/gR6X38E4mQO0WbZ xu6w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=72uXpDj5HOgutyUO+Z12VJDdUi0eoNBvCJdNeDkBhfo=; b=RskRuUPRUTV+iel+o8GQqcHkQ6cDs6NCGtuXWHQ3dbPPxM4V1RjHFX7lUQbR7XOYA0 gmNnBzdTyYy14KMHQfu6e0Hj3SxxC6qumtaJjG5fn7kQ0V9UVO2PNS8nBgl2ljdMjNzj tPXKSFzUSV2O8QEPrzY4NbVM0KaVrumWRwJChGnc8xwweW9pkbr2blXrmePHoSD2gWDn wAp4kS9T3GeCz+9m/Nz5wFWC3AcXzDfgkZbW81+lTbomTECTcKt9/nK6eS30YWbx4/mm 4s8Szi9LllMp6VdKvaTgpZN6g3YnEuwYjMEePSow+4J495x9RLyoyo+M/MdmxHhegu/7 DsCQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOwf9+Cc1zFKvbRNWxlhOKdv5u+Q33VwPVlqItMsuqELMphpjyU9 TaP9Fw63tbN+1y7zy0YVQrzqChoT6Q== X-Received: by 10.157.9.35 with SMTP id 32mr13951519otp.118.1497882406250; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 07:26:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.21.39 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 07:26:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5947D4E7.2040905@posteo.de> References: <15cbcd11867-7c8a-1b647@webprd-a40.mail.aol.com> <5946F435.2090809@posteo.de> <5947D4E7.2040905@posteo.de> From: Domenico IZ7SLZ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:26:05 +0200 Message-ID: To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" X-Scan-Signature: 7fd152b460e4fe836d66f0293f680039 Subject: Re: LF: EbNaut test Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c04f8a2bd6f41055250ec47" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.75 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 12035 --94eb2c04f8a2bd6f41055250ec47 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Hi StefanWhere does that -3.4 mHz offset come from?* When i using SL to generate a tone for coherent transmissions i have noted that, if Sync'd resample is applied, than i have a discrepancy of some mHertz on SL generator frequency. I have observed these differences in Markus calibrated opds grabber transmitting an op32 signal. Maybe there is some mistake in my settings. I temporary cured the trouble by opening two separate SL sessions both with SR Calibration. One with resample (for reception, i.e. only FTT) and one without resample (for transmision, i.e. only freq. generator). But if you are not using the Sync'd resample, this issue is different. If i well understood your setup, i think that you can apply also the PLL method of Markus for generating the tone and swap the phase according EbNaut bits (you know very well the method !). You can feed back to SL audio input the 12530 Hz soundcard generated signal . This method will also fix the frequency error issue (i think so !). BTW, one powerful method (THE Method) for generating EbNaut tone is using Paul Nicholson's EbSynth linux program. It does encoding, frequency generation, calibration using 1pps, it manages the activation time and repetitions, and it manages also the PTT. For shure you can built a separate transmitter using raspi and this program= . On 19 June 2017 at 15:43, DK7FC wrote: > Hi Domenico, > > Thanks for the detailed report and the EbNaut decode over 1159 km. It was > still in daylight, so not bad for LF in mid June and a 376 second long > message... > Where does that -3.4 mHz offset come from? > > Well, i realised that i don't even need to build the XOR gate circuit. I > simply used the PC that generates EbNaut for VLF, i.e. SpecLab, which has= a > PPS+NMEA input. I choose a frequency of 12530 Hz. Then i built an LF > up-converter (in 2011) that has a LO of 125 kHz. So i come out on 137.53 > kHz. That 125 kHz LO frequency (4 MHz xtal down-divided) is PLL locked to > the 10 kHz ref output of the old Jupiter GPS, which is running here since > 2010. The 10 kHz and the 125 kHz are also used on the RX side. So i can > generate stable signals on LF... > It seems it works :-) > > 73, Stefan > > > > Am 19.06.2017 14:59, schrieb Domenico IZ7SLZ: > > Hi Stefan, LF > > as i suspected, i found my linux-pc storage hard disk full. A new 1 TB H= D > is now in order. > So unfortunatly i can't give you an EbNaut report obtained using full > vlfrx-tools programs. > > OPDS SL session has recordered a file witch covers your 16:30 EbNaut > transmission. I got a nice decode using almost the same offsets found by > Markus DF6NM. > I have tried to use also linux ebnaut, after converting the wave file > with following shell script: > ------------------ > #!/bin/bash > sox 06181637.wav -t dat -| > sed '/;/d' | > ebnaut -v -dp4K19A -F29.9966 -N10 -S1 -r111.11111 -c2 -L200000 -PS -v > -T724.5 # |tee dk7fc.txt > ------------------- > > But it gives, of course, almost the same results. > > At the link http://qsl.net/i/iz7slz//DK7FC/ i have uploaded FFT raw and > wave files, in case someone wants to try the decoding. > > So Stefan, congratulations for your first LF-Ebnaut transmission. Can you > tell us how did you generate the signal ? > > There is a very easy and cheap method actually in use by Riccardo IW4DXW > and Tony IK1HGI for generating a coherent carrier for EbNaut.Congrats to > Riccardo for this nice idea. > They are using directly the timing pulse TP5 output of the neo-8 GPS . In > fact this timing port (TP5) can be reprogrammed up to 5 MHz. > The BPSK modulator consist of an XOR port in between the GPS TP5 output > and the PA driver. Cool ! > > 73 Domenico, IZ7SLZ > > > > > > > > > On 18 June 2017 at 23:44, DK7FC wrote: > >> Thanks Markus, nice. We could exchange 1000 characters in 2 minutes, if >> the Eb/N0 calculation is correct :-) >> Maybe i will try another one with Domenico when he is back. And is RN3AU= S >> reading this email? >> Is someone else interested in an LF EnNaut test, if the equipment is >> available,maybe W1TAG? >> >> 73, Stefan >> >> >> Am 18.06.2017 22:07, schrieb Markus Vester: >> >> Hi Stefan, >> >> a fine and error-free decode, best with 0.3 s extra delay. A phase glitc= h >> occured here near the middle, presumably on the receive side. >> >> Best 73, >> Markus >> >> >> >> -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung----- >> Von: DK7FC >> An: rsgb_lf_group >> >> Verschickt: So, 18. Jun 2017 18:35 >> Betreff: Re: LF: EbNaut test >> >> PS: This time 100 Hz higher >> >> Am 18.06.2017 18:28, schrieb DK7FC: >> >> Hello Markus, >> >> Oh, you are right. Same message on 16:30 utc. .. >> I hope it works... >> >> 73, Stefan >> >> Am 18.06.2017 16:56, schrieb Markus Vester: >> >> Hi Stefan, >> >> I'd like to try. But the QRG 137.43 kHz was below my opds capture range >> (137.45 to 137.55 kHz). >> >> 73, Markus >> >> >> >> >> -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung----- >> Von: DK7FC >> An: rsgb_lf_group >> >> Verschickt: So, 18. Jun 2017 16:47 >> Betreff: LF: EbNaut test >> >> Hi LFers, >> >> My first EbNaut message is running at the moment. Not sure if the timing >> and keying is OK. Could someone check if it can be decoded? Don't make a >> secret out of the message. >> >> Parameters: 4K19A, 1sec, 10 char, CRC16, Start:14:36 UTC (maybe there is >> a timing offset between +-1 sec? pse report). >> >> 73, Stefan >> >> > --94eb2c04f8a2bd6f41055250ec47 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Stefan

Where does that -3.4 mHz offset come f= rom?

Whe= n i using SL to generate a tone for coherent transmissions i have noted tha= t, if Sync'd resample is applied, than i have a
discrepancy of some mHertz on SL generator frequency.=C2=A0 I= have observed these differences in Markus calibrated opds grabber transmit= ting an op32 signal.
Maybe there is some mistake in my settings. I tempo= rary cured the trouble by opening two separate SL sessions both with SR Cal= ibration. One with resample (for reception, i.e. only FTT) and one=C2=A0 wi= thout resample (for transmision, i.e. only freq. generator).

<= div class=3D"gmail_extra">But if you are not using the Sync'd resample,= this issue is different.


If i = well understood your setup,=C2=A0 i think that you can apply also the PLL m= ethod of Markus for generating the tone and swap the phase
according EbNaut bits (you know very well the method !)= . You can feed back to SL audio input=C2=A0 the 12530 Hz soundcard generate= d signal . This method will also fix the frequency error issue (i think so = !).

BTW, one powerful method (THE M= ethod)=C2=A0 for generating EbNaut tone is using Paul Nicholson's EbSyn= th linux program. It does encoding, frequency generation, calibration using= 1pps,=C2=A0 it manages the activation time and repetitions, and it manages= also the PTT.
For shure you can built= a separate transmitter using raspi and this program.







On 19 June 2017 at 15:43, DK7FC <selberdenken@post= eo.de> wrote:
=20 =20
Hi Domenico,

Thanks for the detailed report and the EbNaut decode over 1159 km. It was still in daylight, so not bad for LF in mid June and a 376 second long message...
Where does that -3.4 mHz offset come from?

Well, i realised that i don't even need to build the XOR gate circuit. I simply used the PC that generates EbNaut for VLF, i.e. SpecLab, which has a PPS+NMEA input. I choose a frequency of 12530 Hz. Then i built an LF up-converter (in 2011) that has a LO of 125 kHz. So i come out on 137.53 kHz. That 125 kHz LO frequency (4 MHz xtal down-divided) is PLL locked to the 10 kHz ref output of the old Jupiter GPS, which is running here since 2010. The 10 kHz and the 125 kHz are also used on the RX side. So i can generate stable signals on LF...
It seems it works :-)

73, Stefan



Am 19.06.2017 14:59, schrieb Domenico IZ7SLZ:
Hi Stefan, LF

=C2=A0as i suspected, i found my linux-pc storage hard disk full. A new 1 T= B HD is now in order.
So unfortunatly i can't give you an EbNaut report obtained using full vlfrx-tools programs.

OPDS SL session has recordered a file witch covers your 16:30 EbNaut transmission. I got a nice decode using almost the same offsets found by Markus DF6NM.
I have tried to use also linux ebnaut,=C2=A0 after converting the wave file with following shell script:
------------------
#!/bin/bash
sox 06181637.wav=C2=A0 -t dat=C2=A0 -|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
sed '/;/d' |
ebnaut -v -dp4K19A -F29.9966 -N10 -S1 -r111.11111 -c2 -L200000 -PS -v -T724.5=C2=A0 # |tee dk7fc.txt
-------------------

But it gives,=C2=A0 of course, almost the same results.

At the link h= ttp://qsl.net/i/iz7slz//DK7FC/ =C2=A0 i have uploaded FFT raw and wave files, in case someone wants to try the decoding.

So Stefan, congratulations for your first LF-Ebnaut transmission. Can you tell us how did you generate the signal ?

There is a very easy and cheap method actually in use by Riccardo IW4DXW=C2=A0 and Tony IK1HGI=C2=A0 for generating a coherent carrier for EbNaut.Congrats to Riccardo for this nice idea.
They are using directly the timing pulse TP5 output of the neo-8 GPS . In fact this timing=C2=A0 port (TP5) can be reprogrammed up to 5 MHz.
The BPSK modulator consist of an XOR port in between the GPS TP5 output and the PA driver. Cool !

73 Domenico, IZ7SLZ




=C2=A0



On 18 June 2017 at 23:44, DK7FC <selberd= enken@posteo.de> wrote:
Thanks Markus, nice. We could exchange 1000 characters in 2 minutes, if the Eb/N0 calculation is correct :-)
Maybe i will try another one with Domenico when he is back. And is RN3AUS reading this email?
Is someone else interested in an LF EnNaut test, if the equipment is available,maybe W1TAG?

73, Stefan


Am 18.06.2017 22:07, schrieb Markus Vester:
Hi Stefan,

a fine and error-free decode, best with 0.3 s extra delay. A phase glitch occured here near the middle, presumably on the receive side.

Best 73,
Markus



-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: DK7FC <selberdenken@posteo.de>=
An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_grou= p@blacksheep.org>
Verschickt: So, 18. Jun 2017 18:35
Betreff: Re: LF: EbNaut test

P= S: This time 100 Hz higher

Am 18.06.2017 18:28, schrieb DK7FC:
Hello Markus,

Oh, you are right. Same message on 16:30 utc. ..
I hope it works...

73, Stefan

Am 18.06.2017 16:56, schrieb Markus Vester:
Hi Stefan,

I'd like to try. But the QRG 137.43 kHz=C2=A0was below my opds capture = range (137.45 to 137.55 kHz).

73, Markus




-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: DK7FC <selberdenken@posteo.de>
An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Verschickt: So, 18. Jun 2017 16:47
Betreff: LF: EbNaut test

Hi LFers,

My first EbNaut message is running at the moment. Not sure if the timing
and keying is OK. Could someone check if it can be decoded? Don't make a
secret out of the message.

Parameters: 4K19A, 1sec, 10 char, CRC16, Start:14:36 UTC (maybe there is
a timing offset between +-1 sec? pse report).

73, Stefan



--94eb2c04f8a2bd6f41055250ec47--