Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,SPF_PASS,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 X-Spam-DCC: : mailn 1480; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by lipkowski.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u1) with ESMTP id v46GQ4K7022858 for ; Sat, 6 May 2017 18:26:05 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1d72Oj-0003LS-8X for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 17:17:33 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1d72Oc-0003LJ-5C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 17:17:26 +0100 Received: from porthos.netcom.co.uk ([217.72.171.73]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1d72OZ-0003mj-CO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 17:17:24 +0100 X-DKIM-Result: Domain=abelian.org Result=Signature OK DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=abelian.org ; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To: MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:From:References:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=SyforAv12TsTbUNYE5p3l+KGG3KeyFuZlLDNqyFlEf8=; b=U0eF21FoXQwwMv9ZHCcaAZCYk/ SbDjbVhMrYUH2L93801u/+ocWgpzG2mYZTWaXjTA64WuF+siwjKMqOAtTrq2fOGZcKSVQs+Xhgk+6 2JmgGtDoDhYHCnl8hV+3g8zjh1kKNSMkmvVfLO1LUWGivXZWnaUlrcHFX3u59JK+73LA=; Received: from i-194-106-52-83.freedom2surf.net ([194.106.52.83]:59213 helo=pn.abelian.org) by porthos.netcom.co.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1d72OX-0000RG-3A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 May 2017 17:17:21 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pn.abelian.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D3C1400860 for ; Sat, 6 May 2017 16:17:20 +0000 (UTC) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <15bd53dda31-14f8-1cb1c@webprd-m59.mail.aol.com> <590B9892.9010406@posteo.de> <1493995971.279577405@f347.i.mail.ru> <590CA917.70808@posteo.de> <590CEE68.4000507@posteo.de> From: Paul Nicholson Message-ID: Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 16:17:20 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - porthos.netcom.co.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - blacksheep.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - abelian.org X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: porthos.netcom.co.uk: authenticated_id: catchall@abelian.org X-Authenticated-Sender: porthos.netcom.co.uk: catchall@abelian.org X-Scan-Signature: c9d6a1e47761f7ec7375ac340bef30d0 Subject: Re: VLF: tonite on the 36km band... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.75 Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 11606 > f = 8270.100000 Hz > Start time: 05.May.2017 18:00:00 UTC > Symbol period: 40 s > Characters: 4 > CRC bits: 6 > Coding 16K21A > ... start time delayed to 19:15 UTC. Copied with constant reference phase carrier phase: 73.9 carrier Eb/N0: 10.2 dB carrier S/N: 23.83 dB in 31.2 uHz, -21.22 dB in 1Hz, -55.20 dB in 2.5kHz Regarding CRCs, I think now I must recommend using a small CRC on very long messages. The overhead of a small CRC, say 8 bits, is negligible on a long message. Example, a couple of false decodes on Stefan's 100 char message: "THIS K36,Y CT LONGEST EBNAUT MESSAGE ON VLF. 881 KM ON THE 36 KM BAND. JOIN THE VLF ACTIVITIES! 73!" and "THIS IS A NEW LONGEST EBNAUT MESSAGE ON VLF. 881 KKW5+CTRK72KHQM BAND. JOIN THE VLF ACTIVITIES! 73!" These seem to be typical, where the decode goes astray for several characters, then comes back. It seems to involve runs of about 3 to 5 constraint lengths (eg 4 * 19 = 76 bits = ~13 chars). Such a run contains 3 to 5 bits of redundancy in the source encoding (0.3 bits per char) which the list decoder makes use of. Putting in a small CRC allows the list decoder to discard these 'diversions'. False decodes aren't much of a problem because usually the real decode comes in with a higher path metric and trumps the false ones but sometimes a false decode wins. A small CRC will kill these off. For short messages, a very small or zero CRC remains best, because of the significant inner code overhead. This also means I have to revise my policy for calculating an optimum list length. Later I'll update the signal calculator web page. -- Paul Nicholson --