Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.3 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 X-Spam-DCC: : mailn 1480; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by lipkowski.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u1) with ESMTP id v42L0U6M008096 for ; Tue, 2 May 2017 23:00:31 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1d5emU-00053c-Nl for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 May 2017 21:52:22 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1d5emT-00053T-J9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 May 2017 21:52:21 +0100 Received: from gmy2-mh809.smtproutes.com ([94.186.192.138]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1d5emP-0000se-Pw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 May 2017 21:52:20 +0100 X-Katharion-ID: 1493758319.92976.gmy2-mh809 Received: from servigilant.vigilant.es ([85.60.35.36]) by gmy2-mh809.smtproutes.com [(94.186.192.138)] with ESMTP via TCP (TLSv1/TLS_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA); 02 May 2017 20:51:59 +0000 Received: from servigilant.vigilant.local ([fe80::c40d:8140:d722:5448]) by servigilant.vigilant.local ([fe80::c40d:8140:d722:5448%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Tue, 2 May 2017 22:51:26 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?VIGILANT_Luis_Fern=E1ndez?= To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Thread-Topic: LF: SL settings for EbNaut FFT recording ? Thread-Index: AQHSwYvPGRMSdbVf3ESd6lc1832zK6Hds2oAgACLhpWAAVhxgIABGvLAgAAv6QCAAJ2IKA== Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 20:51:25 +0000 Message-ID: <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB8FDD667C@servigilant.vigilant.local> References: <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB8FDD6283@servigilant.vigilant.local>,<590881D8.6070202@posteo.de> In-Reply-To: <590881D8.6070202@posteo.de> Accept-Language: es-ES, en-US Content-Language: es-ES X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [95.17.105.59] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scan-Signature: 90338e40e9ba9cca82d2bbd7ba5c2c02 Subject: Re: LF: SL settings for EbNaut FFT recording ? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB8FDD667Cservigilantvigi_" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.75 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 11563 --_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB8FDD667Cservigilantvigi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan The grabber is now showing full spectrum from 0-24KHz https://ea5dom.ure.es/grabber/index.html The Rx is not at Benidorm in the high tower. It is in the roof of a two lev= el house on top of a 5m pole But clear out from high obstacles and trees Fortunately no near by AM or LF stations. The strongest station in the firs= t 500KHz is an Algerian LW broadcast at 252Khz which puts -18dBm here in the central carrier The pole is a 50cm x 10mm diameter aluminium rod. Will play with the 10MOhm= resistor and first fet stage with filter. I will also test a different location for the probe. The noise= at MiniWhip rised 20dB, so must get it appart to keep the ear at MF/LF. The power supply is a 12V transformer shar= ed with the MiniWhip Will test another one just for the VLF probe and with better filtering. The= GND of the antenna is separated from mains earth and there is an audio transformer to the PC soundcard >>It is all not easy! I would say it is harder than EME ;-) You can say it truly Stephan. It IS much harder than EME :-) In EME you can run a modest station and the big guns will work you (my case= , for example) In VLF you have to be the big gun and try to target some electrons into mod= est stations with small antennas into a noise storm >>31 mHz? That's quite optimistic! I would rather try 31 uHz. Sorry, it was a typo. It is 31uHz really. This are the SL settings by Marku= s BTW. What I'm getting from SL is one FFT file 112Kb size every hour as Mark= us said But how can I merge all the files of a 8h transmission like the one your ar= e running now ? Your signal in your grabber looks stronger than the previous transmissions 73 de Luis EA5DOM ________________________________ De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]= en nombre de DK7FC [selberdenken@posteo.de] Enviado: martes, 2 de mayo de 2017 14:55 Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Asunto: Re: LF: SL settings for EbNaut FFT recording ? Hi Luis, Am 02.05.2017 10:49, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez: I was already running an SL instance showing the first 24KHz in a fast way = to get an idea of what's going on with QRM and known signals It is already included in the grabber at 1 min/pixel. Hour changed to UTC j= ust now https://ea5dom.ure.es/grabber/index.html Yes but it starts at 6 kHz, so not the first 24 kHz ;-) From 0...6 kHz ther= e are also informations which are relevant to evaluate the situation of you= r receiver(site). As you can see, there is a LOT of noise around. What I'm using is your VLF = E-Field probe with the first JFet separated in a 50cm aluminium rod probe and linking to shack with a coax cable https://sites.google.com/site/sub9kh= z/antennas/dk7fc_efield_probe.jpg?attredirects=3D0 Not only the length of the rod, also the height above ground, the effective= height, playes an even bigger role. Sourrounded by trees you miss sensitiv= ity, the lower the frequency is. And on the top of a high tower, the signal= s will be much stronger, with the same rod! If there is a strong local AM transmitter on MF, you may get some interfere= nces, and so on. Thus it is good to see what happens below 6 kHz too. When DLF on 153 kHz has been active here, running 500 kW to a 350m high ant= enna in 40 km distance, i sometimes saw AM components, demodulation stuff o= n VLF, in one of the first versions. So when the antenna is on a high tower= and the signal levels are strong, you may afford a second RC low pass filt= er in front of the first JFET, giving a cleaner spectrum on the lower VLF. = On the other side, with a longer rod (giving more capacity) you may decreas= e the 10 MOhm resistor. This should reduce the noise of the first JFET a bi= t. I just played with all that stuff a week ago when optimising my ULF E field= circuit for 970 Hz. Obviously, no clear trace from your last transmission in the 31mHz spectrog= ram with this Rx conditions 31 mHz? That's quite optimistic! I would rather try 31 uHz. Are you using an AF isolation transformer between soundcard and antenna? Wh= at type of power supply are you using for the antenna? Is the GND of the an= tenna separated from the mains earth? So, 7Km is an outstanding Dx at this moment. But really challenging I do already have a failed microwave oven to use the transformer. And the a= udio PA too. So you mean to apply the high voltage to the antenna without resonating coil, right ? Yes. Better start with some measurements in the shack, not on the roof :-) Measure or estimate the capacity of your antenna. Switch a fixed C of that = value parallel to the transformer. Use a sine signal generator connected to= the audio PA. Try to find a resonance or check the voltage at 8270 Hz. May= be a normal mains transformer 12V -> 230V will give better results! Maybe y= ou need to add your own primary winding to the transformer. Try to get 1 kV= or so, that should work well. With a mains transformer, 500V may work for = a few hours. If you have a toroidal transformer, use that! You can also switch an external C parallel to the transformer if that helps= to rise the voltage on the desired frequency. Or switch it in series to th= e primary winding. Ah and a resistor, maybe 2 Ohm or so may help to protect= the PA from transients and short cuts (resonances). Nice therm. Don't know if the pipe running down to ground would have any is= sue with this. At the moment 80w at MF didn't show to be harmful But there can be some noise at 8KHz and this would really be an annoying si= de effect if that happens :( The antenna currents will be very low. There will be no unwanted effects, e= xcept maybe some local E field coupling on the roof. The resonating coil for VLF is in the "To-Do" list. Actually found a huge p= lastic (resin) garden flowerpots which are 60cm diameter by 35cm high This can be stacked upside down leaving airgap between them for ventilation= . Just adding one final on top with no coil serves as rain protection of the full arrange. Maybe it's a good idea to start in small steps. With your own monitor you w= ill have some first results. And maybe some of the local EA amateurs can he= lp to reach the next distance step :-) It is all not easy! I would say it is harder than EME ;-) 73, Stefan --_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB8FDD667Cservigilantvigi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Stefan

The grabber is now showing full spectrum from 0-24KHz
https://ea5dom.ure.es/grabber/index.html

The Rx is not at Benidorm in the high tower. It is in the roof of a tw= o level house on top of a 5m pole
But clear out from high obstacles and trees
Fortunately no near by AM or LF stations. The strongest station in the= first 500KHz is an Algerian LW broadcast
at 252Khz which puts -18dBm here in the central carrier

The pole is a 50cm x 10mm diameter aluminium rod. Will play with the 1= 0MOhm resistor and first fet stage
with filter. I will also test a different location for the probe. The = noise at MiniWhip rised 20dB, so must get it
appart to keep the ear at MF/LF. The power supply is a 12V transformer= shared with the MiniWhip
Will test another one just for the VLF probe and with better filtering= . The GND of the antenna is separated
from mains earth and there is an audio transformer to the PC soundcard=

>>It is all not easy! I would say it is= harder than EME ;-)

You can say it truly Stephan. It IS much harder than EME :-)
In EME you can run a modest station and the big guns will work you (my= case, for example)
In VLF you have to be the big gun and try to target some electrons int= o modest stations with small antennas
into a noise storm

>>31 mHz? That's quite optimistic! I would rather try 31 uHz.

Sorry, it was a typo. It is 31uHz really. This are the SL settings by = Markus

BTW. What I'm getting from SL is one FFT file 112Kb size every hour as= Markus said
But how can I merge all the files of a 8h transmission like the one yo= ur are running now ?

Your signal in your grabber looks stronger than the previous transmiss= ions

73 de Luis
EA5DOM

De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [o= wner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] en nombre de DK7FC [selberdenken@posteo.= de]
Enviado: martes, 2 de mayo de 2017 14:55
Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Asunto: Re: LF: SL settings for EbNaut FFT recording ?

Hi Luis,

Am 02.05.2017 10:49, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez:
I was already running an SL insta= nce showing the first 24KHz in a fast way to get an idea of what's going on= with QRM and known signals
It is already included in the gra= bber at 1 min/pixel. Hour changed to UTC just now
Yes but it starts at 6 kHz, so not the first 24 kHz ;-) From 0...6 kHz ther= e are also informations which are relevant to evaluate the situation of you= r receiver(site).

&= nbsp;
As you can see, there is a LOT of= noise around. What I'm using is your VLF E-Field probe with the first JFet= separated in a 50cm aluminium rod probe
Not only the length of the rod, also the height above ground, the effective= height, playes an even bigger role. Sourrounded by trees you miss sensitiv= ity, the lower the frequency is. And on the top of a high tower, the signal= s will be much stronger, with the same rod!
If there is a strong local AM transmitter on MF, you may get some interfere= nces, and so on. Thus it is good to see what happens below 6 kHz too.
When DLF on 153 kHz has been active here, running 500 kW to a 350m high ant= enna in 40 km distance, i sometimes saw AM components, demodulation stuff o= n VLF, in one of the first versions. So when the antenna is on a high tower= and the signal levels are strong, you may afford a second RC low pass filter in front of the first JFET, giv= ing a cleaner spectrum on the lower VLF. On the other side, with a longer r= od (giving more capacity) you may decrease the 10 MOhm resistor. This shoul= d reduce the noise of the first JFET a bit.
I just played with all that stuff a week ago when optimising my ULF E field= circuit for 970 Hz.

Obviously, no clear trace from your las= t transmission in the 31mHz spectrogram with this Rx conditions
31 mHz? That's quite optimistic! I would rather try 31 uHz.
Are you using an AF isolation transformer between soundcard and antenna? Wh= at type of power supply are you using for the antenna? Is the GND of the an= tenna separated from the mains earth?

So, 7Km is an outstanding Dx at t= his moment. But really challenging 
 
I do already have a failed microwave oven to use the transfo= rmer. And the audio PA too. So you mean to apply the high voltage to the an= tenna
without resonating coil, right ?
Yes.
Better start with some measurements in the shack, not on the roof :-)
Measure or estimate the capacity of your antenna. Switch a fixed C of that = value parallel to the transformer. Use a sine signal generator connected to= the audio PA. Try to find a resonance or check the voltage at 8270 Hz. May= be a normal mains transformer 12V -> 230V will give better results! Maybe you need to add your own primar= y winding to the transformer. Try to get 1 kV or so, that should work well.= With a mains transformer, 500V may work for a few hours. If you have a tor= oidal transformer, use that!
You can also switch an external C parallel to the transformer if that helps= to rise the voltage on the desired frequency. Or switch it in series to th= e primary winding. Ah and a resistor, maybe 2 Ohm or so may help to protect= the PA from transients and short cuts (resonances).



Nice therm. Don't know if the pipe running down to ground wo= uld have any issue with this. At the moment 80w at MF didn't show to be har= mful
But there can be some noise at 8KHz and this would real= ly be an annoying side effect if that happens :(
The antenna currents will be very low. There will be no unwanted effects, e= xcept maybe some local E field coupling on the roof.

 
The resonating coil for VLF is in the "To-Do" list= . Actually found a huge plastic (resin) garden flowerpots which are 60cm di= ameter by 35cm high
This can be stacked upside down leaving airgap between them = for ventilation. Just adding one final on top with no coil serves as r= ain protection
of the full arrange.
Maybe it's a good idea to start in small steps. With your own monitor you w= ill have some first results. And maybe some of the local EA amateurs can he= lp to reach the next distance step :-)
It is all not easy! I would say it is harder than EME ;-)

73, Stefan

--_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB8FDD667Cservigilantvigi_--