Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN, FREEMAIL_FROM,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM,SPF_PASS,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 X-Spam-DCC: : mailn 1480; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by lipkowski.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u1) with ESMTP id v42LedZw008176 for ; Tue, 2 May 2017 23:40:40 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1d5fTm-0005Qw-5O for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 May 2017 22:37:06 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1d5fTi-0005Qn-T0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 May 2017 22:37:02 +0100 Received: from omr-a018e.mx.aol.com ([204.29.186.64]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1d5fTe-00010J-At for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 May 2017 22:37:01 +0100 Received: from mtaomg-laa02.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-laa02.mx.aol.com [172.27.2.100]) by omr-a018e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id BF2A138000E6 for ; Tue, 2 May 2017 17:36:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-acx11d.mail.aol.com (core-acx11.mail.aol.com [172.27.155.136]) by mtaomg-laa02.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id EED8E38000082 for ; Tue, 2 May 2017 17:36:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 188.192.95.60 by webprd-a74.mail.aol.com (10.72.52.223) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 02 May 2017 17:36:54 -0400 Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 17:36:54 -0400 From: Markus Vester To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-Id: <15bcb183c16-3753-14ba3@webprd-a74.mail.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB8FDD667C@servigilant.vigilant.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: JAS STD X-Originating-IP: [188.192.95.60] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1493761015; bh=SJzd6AoMyF0u5sKW+5Yh2HCxoxv0YCmfvlpjdBq9Zc8=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=AKrr48SJ5w5975UyCyoaKMwhtzjFl4Y7BlfBtCBWCif6mrC6jIbvf+30AhZ/moIid xSj4WDeV/9fjzl2m2bBk9U29BChEgKIPUCjHvXnBtux6lWFufpYZu5PEhwRFH95PFd 2CRTlqfe23Gg/hDAjPLguqhhWMaSfdsG3rVLaaUE= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1b02645908fbf65fed X-Scan-Signature: 92ba6d1cfea07ba208a9963ff95bc212 Subject: Re: LF: SL settings for EbNaut FFT recording ? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_107593_811537678.1493761014801" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.75 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 11565 ------=_Part_107593_811537678.1493761014801 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Luis, > BTW. What I'm getting from SL is one FFT file 112Kb size every hour as Ma= rkus said > But how can I merge all the files of a 8h transmission like the one your = are running now ? Each of these files contains the data for approx. 8.9 hours. The filename (= and the timestamp, which are the first two numbers in the file) refers to t= he middle of the recording. For example, a file called "05020430.txt" would= be centered on 4:30 UT, and contain all received data from 0.03 to 8:57 UT= . The next one would then be "05020530.txt", covering 1:03 to 9:57, etc. So= the files are largely overlapping. A short transmission could be contained= in more than one file, and a very long one (> 7.9 h) might not be complete= ly covered at all. The easiest way is to select the file whose name is clos= est to the midtime of the EbNaut transmission. Don't let yourself be confused by the file timestamps in Windows Explorer, = which may be one hour later than the end of the recording. The reason is th= at SpecLab closes the "old" export file only immediately before the next on= e will be written. This is also the reason why you cannot delete the latest= file while SL is running, but you can copy it to another folder. Usually the data will have started some time before the announced beginning= of an EbNaut transmission. The EbNaut decoder will show the file start tim= e, and you will then have to calculate and enter the start offset. =20 Best 73, Markus =20 -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----=20 Von: VIGILANT Luis Fern=C3=A1ndez An: rsgb_lf_group Verschickt: Di, 2. Mai 2017 22:54 Betreff: Re: LF: SL settings for EbNaut FFT recording ? Hi Stefan=20 The grabber is now showing full spectrum from 0-24KHz https://ea5dom.ure.es/grabber/index.html The Rx is not at Benidorm in the high tower. It is in the roof of a two lev= el house on top of a 5m pole But clear out from high obstacles and trees Fortunately no near by AM or LF stations. The strongest station in the firs= t 500KHz is an Algerian LW broadcast at 252Khz which puts -18dBm here in the central carrier The pole is a 50cm x 10mm diameter aluminium rod. Will play with the 10MOhm= resistor and first fet stage with filter. I will also test a different location for the probe. The noise= at MiniWhip rised 20dB, so must get it appart to keep the ear at MF/LF. The power supply is a 12V transformer shar= ed with the MiniWhip Will test another one just for the VLF probe and with better filtering. The= GND of the antenna is separated from mains earth and there is an audio transformer to the PC soundcard >>It is all not easy! I would say it is harder than EME ;-) You can say it truly Stephan. It IS much harder than EME :-) In EME you can run a modest station and the big guns will work you (my case= , for example) In VLF you have to be the big gun and try to target some electrons into mod= est stations with small antennas into a noise storm >>31 mHz? That's quite optimistic! I would rather try 31 uHz. Sorry, it was a typo. It is 31uHz really. This are the SL settings by Marku= s BTW. What I'm getting from SL is one FFT file 112Kb size every hour as Mark= us said But how can I merge all the files of a 8h transmission like the one your ar= e running now ? Your signal in your grabber looks stronger than the previous transmissions 73 de Luis EA5DOM De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]= en nombre de DK7FC [selberdenken@posteo.de] Enviado: martes, 2 de mayo de 2017 14:55 Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Asunto: Re: LF: SL settings for EbNaut FFT recording ? Hi Luis,=20 Am 02.05.2017 10:49, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=C3=A1ndez:=20 I was already running an SL instance showing the first 24KHz in a fast way = to get an idea of what's going on with QRM and known signals It is already included in the grabber at 1 min/pixel. Hour changed to UTC j= ust now https://ea5dom.ure.es/grabber/index.html Yes but it starts at 6 kHz, so not the first 24 kHz ;-) From 0...6 kHz ther= e are also informations which are relevant to evaluate the situation of you= r receiver(site). =20 As you can see, there is a LOT of noise around. What I'm using is your VLF = E-Field probe with the first JFet separated in a 50cm aluminium rod probe and linking to shack with a coax cable https://sites.google.com/site/sub9k= hz/antennas/dk7fc_efield_probe.jpg?attredirects=3D0 Not only the length of the rod, also the height above ground, the effective= height, playes an even bigger role. Sourrounded by trees you miss sensitiv= ity, the lower the frequency is. And on the top of a high tower, the signal= s will be much stronger, with the same rod! If there is a strong local AM transmitter on MF, you may get some interfer= ences, and so on. Thus it is good to see what happens below 6 kHz too.=20 When DLF on 153 kHz has been active here, running 500 kW to a 350m high an= tenna in 40 km distance, i sometimes saw AM components, demodulation stuff = on VLF, in one of the first versions. So when the antenna is on a high towe= r and the signal levels are strong, you may afford a second RC low pass fil= ter in front of the first JFET, giving a cleaner spectrum on the lower VLF.= On the other side, with a longer rod (giving more capacity) you may decrea= se the 10 MOhm resistor. This should reduce the noise of the first JFET a b= it.=20 I just played with all that stuff a week ago when optimising my ULF E fiel= d circuit for 970 Hz. Obviously, no clear trace from your last transmission in the 31mHz spectrog= ram with this Rx conditions 31 mHz? That's quite optimistic! I would rather try 31 uHz. Are you using an AF isolation transformer between soundcard and antenna? W= hat type of power supply are you using for the antenna? Is the GND of the a= ntenna separated from the mains earth? So, 7Km is an outstanding Dx at this moment. But really challenging=20 =20 I do already have a failed microwave oven to use the transformer. And the a= udio PA too. So you mean to apply the high voltage to the antenna without resonating coil, right ? Yes. Better start with some measurements in the shack, not on the roof :-) Measure or estimate the capacity of your antenna. Switch a fixed C of that= value parallel to the transformer. Use a sine signal generator connected t= o the audio PA. Try to find a resonance or check the voltage at 8270 Hz. Ma= ybe a normal mains transformer 12V -> 230V will give better results! Maybe = you need to add your own primary winding to the transformer. Try to get 1 k= V or so, that should work well. With a mains transformer, 500V may work for= a few hours. If you have a toroidal transformer, use that! You can also switch an external C parallel to the transformer if that help= s to rise the voltage on the desired frequency. Or switch it in series to t= he primary winding. Ah and a resistor, maybe 2 Ohm or so may help to protec= t the PA from transients and short cuts (resonances). Nice therm. Don't know if the pipe running down to ground would have any is= sue with this. At the moment 80w at MF didn't show to be harmful But there can be some noise at 8KHz and this would really be an annoying si= de effect if that happens :( The antenna currents will be very low. There will be no unwanted effects, e= xcept maybe some local E field coupling on the roof. =20 The resonating coil for VLF is in the "To-Do" list. Actually found a huge p= lastic (resin) garden flowerpots which are 60cm diameter by 35cm high This can be stacked upside down leaving airgap between them for ventilation= . Just adding one final on top with no coil serves as rain protection of the full arrange. Maybe it's a good idea to start in small steps. With your own monitor you w= ill have some first results. And maybe some of the local EA amateurs can he= lp to reach the next distance step :-) It is all not easy! I would say it is harder than EME ;-) 73, Stefan ------=_Part_107593_811537678.1493761014801 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Luis,

> BTW. What I'm getting from SL = is one FFT file 112Kb size every hour as Markus said
> But how= can I merge all the files of a 8h transmission like the one your are runni= ng now ?

Each of these files contains the data for approx. 8.= 9 hours. The filename (and the timestamp, which are the first two numb= ers in the file) refers to the middle of the recording. For example, a= file called "05020430.txt" would be centered on 4:30 UT, and contain = all received data from 0.03 to 8:57 UT. The next one would then b= e "05020530.txt", covering 1:03 to 9:57, etc. So the files are largely= overlapping. A short transmission could be contained in more than one file= , and a very long one (> 7.9 h) might not be completely covered at all. = The easiest way is to select the file whose name is closest to th= e midtime of the EbNaut transmission.

Don't let yo= urself be confused by the file timestamps in Windows Explorer, which m= ay be one hour later than the end of the recording. The reason is that= SpecLab closes the "old" export file only immediately befor= e the next one will be written. This is also the reason why you cannot= delete the latest file while SL is running, but you can copy it to another= folder.

Usually the data will have started some time befo= re the announced beginning of an EbNaut transmission. The EbNaut decod= er will show the file start time, and you will then have to calculate = and enter the start offset.  

Best 73,
Markus=    


-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
V= on: VIGILANT Luis Fern=C3=A1ndez <luis@vigilant.es>
An: rsgb_lf_gr= oup <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Verschickt: Di, 2. Mai 2017 22:= 54
Betreff: Re: LF: SL settings for EbNaut FFT recording ?

=
Hi Stefan

The grabber is now showing full spectrum from 0-24KHz

The Rx is not at Benidorm in the high tower. It is in the roof of a tw= o level house on top of a 5m pole
But clear out from high obstacles and trees
Fortunately no near by AM or LF stations. The strongest station in the= first 500KHz is an Algerian LW broadcast
at 252Khz which puts -18dBm here in the central carrier

The pole is a 50cm x 10mm diameter aluminium rod. Will play with the 1= 0MOhm resistor and first fet stage
with filter. I will also test a different location for the probe. The = noise at MiniWhip rised 20dB, so must get it
appart to keep the ear at MF/LF. The power supply is a 12V transformer= shared with the MiniWhip
Will test another one just for the VLF probe and with better filtering= . The GND of the antenna is separated
from mains earth and there is an audio transformer to the PC soundcard=

>>It is all not easy! I would say it is harder th= an EME ;-)

You can say it truly Stephan. It IS much harder than EME :-)
In EME you can run a modest station and the big guns will work you (my= case, for example)
In VLF you have to be the big gun and try to target some electrons int= o modest stations with small antennas
into a noise storm

>>31 mHz? That's quite optimistic! I would rather try 31 uHz.

Sorry, it was a typo. It is 31uHz really. This are the SL settings by = Markus

BTW. What I'm getting from SL is one FFT file 112Kb size every hour as= Markus said
But how can I merge all the files of a 8h transmission like the one yo= ur are running now ?

Your signal in your grabber looks stronger than the previous transmiss= ions

73 de Luis
EA5DOM

De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] en nombr= e de DK7FC [selberdenken@posteo.d= e]
Enviado: martes, 2 de mayo de 2017 14:55
Para: rsgb_lf_group@= blacksheep.org
Asunto: Re: LF: SL settings for EbNaut FFT recording ?

Hi Luis,

Am 02.05.2017 10:49, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=C3=A1ndez:
= I was already running an SL ins= tance showing the first 24KHz in a fast way to get an idea of what's going = on with QRM and known signals
= It is already included in the g= rabber at 1 min/pixel. Hour changed to UTC just now
Yes but it starts at 6 kHz, so not the first 24 kHz ;-) From 0...6 kHz ther= e are also informations which are relevant to evaluate the situation of you= r receiver(site).

=  
= As you can see, there is a LOT = of noise around. What I'm using is your VLF E-Field probe with the first JF= et separated in a 50cm aluminium rod probe
Not only the length of the rod, also the height above ground, the effective= height, playes an even bigger role. Sourrounded by trees you miss sensitiv= ity, the lower the frequency is. And on the top of a high tower, the signal= s will be much stronger, with the same rod!
If there is a strong local AM transmitter on MF, you may get some interfere= nces, and so on. Thus it is good to see what happens below 6 kHz too.
When DLF on 153 kHz has been active here, running 500 kW to a 350m high ant= enna in 40 km distance, i sometimes saw AM components, demodulation stuff o= n VLF, in one of the first versions. So when the antenna is on a high tower= and the signal levels are strong, you may afford a second RC low pass filter in front of the first JFET, giv= ing a cleaner spectrum on the lower VLF. On the other side, with a longer r= od (giving more capacity) you may decrease the 10 MOhm resistor. This shoul= d reduce the noise of the first JFET a bit.
I just played with all that stuff a week ago when optimising my ULF E field= circuit for 970 Hz.

Obviously, no clear trace from your last transmissi= on in the 31mHz spectrogram with this Rx conditions 31 mHz? That's quite optimistic! I would rather try 31 uHz.
Are you using an AF isolation transformer between soundcard and antenna? Wh= at type of power supply are you using for the antenna? Is the GND of the an= tenna separated from the mains earth?

= So, 7Km is an outstanding Dx at= this moment. But really challenging 
 
I do already have a failed microwave oven to use the trans= former. And the audio PA too. So you mean to apply the high voltage to the = antenna
without resonating coil, right ?<= /span>
Yes.
Better start with some measurements in the shack, not on the roof :-)
Measure or estimate the capacity of your antenna. Switch a fixed C of that = value parallel to the transformer. Use a sine signal generator connected to= the audio PA. Try to find a resonance or check the voltage at 8270 Hz. May= be a normal mains transformer 12V -> 230V will give better results! Maybe you need to add your own primar= y winding to the transformer. Try to get 1 kV or so, that should work well.= With a mains transformer, 500V may work for a few hours. If you have a tor= oidal transformer, use that!
You can also switch an external C parallel to the transformer if that helps= to rise the voltage on the desired frequency. Or switch it in series to th= e primary winding. Ah and a resistor, maybe 2 Ohm or so may help to protect= the PA from transients and short cuts (resonances).



Nice therm. Don't know if the pipe running down to ground = would have any issue with this. At the moment 80w at MF didn't show to be h= armful
But there can be some noise at 8KHz and this would re= ally be an annoying side effect if that happens :(
The antenna currents will be very low. There will be no unwanted effects, e= xcept maybe some local E field coupling on the roof.

 
The resonating coil for VLF is in the "To-Do" list. Actual= ly found a huge plastic (resin) garden flowerpots which are 60cm diameter b= y 35cm high
This can be stacked upside down leaving airgap between the= m for ventilation. Just adding one final on top with no coil serves as= rain protection
of the full arrange.
Maybe it's a good idea to start in small steps. With your own monitor you w= ill have some first results. And maybe some of the local EA amateurs can he= lp to reach the next distance step :-)
It is all not easy! I would say it is harder than EME ;-)

73, Stefan

------=_Part_107593_811537678.1493761014801--