Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN, FREEMAIL_FROM,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, SPF_PASS,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 X-Spam-DCC: : mailn 1480; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by lipkowski.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u1) with ESMTP id v3FH8wxF024128 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 19:08:59 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1czR9D-0000sX-Am for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 18:06:07 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1czR9C-0000sO-R3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 18:06:06 +0100 Received: from mail-yb0-x22b.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4002:c09::22b]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1czR98-0006Fg-TG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 18:06:05 +0100 Received: by mail-yb0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id m133so23733645ybb.1 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 10:06:02 -0700 (PDT) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=gmail.com Result=Good and Known Domain DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=vOoT/012mg5JIAtgOo/QYAsjKCCsibVQ8oF+uA0KkIc=; b=KTeLvqIEPqnpjCrEOrt3p7qsvCCIPH0+ygIy2zpSkrGZBuKMgBQCcfeey+0bpfBdi7 gp8OWgzeugIYZIjYLiSd0e5hdyfY0BDBexXrN/mXNqXhD4/wvr6CqslVEeefsrL8+l/b TOW+k93ay3TPrL3Qg7kdZXVOblMAc8tTr+hqMsRXABJpsyBwZSlqM8UYxa5sqSssg8Ip 0URnS4GGFKSZunT3Vx8OIOvpkDRiIhV93RMBA1RtRDBTyD6EKoSjVe+1AO28luO8r1rf u28w8offCKCU76WChsdky12NM3kuuUc/pXYdqJ5qWSTiC2kc2p3tjblH4kN5zfqcE6D+ wh9g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=vOoT/012mg5JIAtgOo/QYAsjKCCsibVQ8oF+uA0KkIc=; b=OKttbMozBzNPQ3eKWgcnqdiMHOL2nYRZLRulN+zArVU24u17JAl8KDu83waLSCUnp3 OeQYm6fbr9wYAHvMey0hm3yixLoJAN9YYDm1EYv7nS71X6bXKIGbN9OfORdAWsZfTlpq JybcM6QAho5qbtNIwPdPjtQoReyTKlwFS9b1z/wkWIUTohs550mD2BzSUlOPcyzqSJ8K 3FSgINXFGv4CPkL6HRt5Sgjv8/VMnUjN+uanO9tWfi04hC3X+i8EVRyViAzYiP3CYL7Y wxO1X0y0780HqS2xXUuaD+4cEzZ+85W5qp6DvMSmIPbZkogJnHeHcnQER2zlXVuEEbbR wBbQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/5ep7cD0o9ByQf2v/VwuVrVnd+A6m+p66U2u0y9J0QRcVrv+hnY hUBQhiT3vfoG7Jp1FrdNkf6P8iMFDw== X-Received: by 10.37.173.29 with SMTP id y29mr1901185ybi.52.1492275960806; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 10:06:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.129.173.1 with HTTP; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 10:06:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <272136023.20170415133220@gmail.com> <20623F28F103422F8F6F961B025E44C1@AGB> <448397363.20170415151022@gmail.com> <77F04AF2145840F3A96644843D629A87@AGB> From: Andy Talbot Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 18:06:00 +0100 Message-ID: To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Scan-Signature: 571129b349252c35b2bc09d7a1c6d0f3 Subject: Re: LF: Poor aerial connection affecting gate waveforms?? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f403045da69c8d068a054d37920b X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.75 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 11327 --f403045da69c8d068a054d37920b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 There is nothing complicated about ferrites used in transformers. You don't need "original"materials. In fact it would benefit greatly from using more modern materiuals and FETs The SMPSU world has supplied all you need. There are thousands of suitable cores out there. Gapped ferrites (also common in the SMPSU world) give you inductors 'jnt On 15 April 2017 at 17:56, Clemens Paul wrote: > >Taking everything , via the , what appears to be , a step up , > >transformer , will provide isolation from the Ae , if > >you combine at > >50 ohms , then everything will pass back to the amps , via the > >combiner , > ... > >Could be totally wrong of course > > Any change of the load impedance (R,X) on the secondary side > is seen by the PA on the primary side proportionally to the step up ratio. > > >Why not simply build a copy of the Decca out put stage > >, series > >tuned cct's and the 3 -2-1 adding transformer > > Perhaps because it is not so easy to get hold of those original > transormers and chokes > within due time? > On the other hand i find that what Andy calls "complicated > splitters/combiners" is not applicable > for the design used by Jay. > What could be simpler than slipping a bunch of easily available toroids > over two pieces of coax > and add a resistor? > > 73 > Clemens > DL4RAJ > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Graham > >Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 6:27 PM > >To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >Subject: Re: LF: Poor aerial connection affecting gate waveforms?? > > > >Can only go by the images in the links I sent a while back > >.. I was > >wondering, after Andy's last post , > > > >Why not simply build a copy of the Decca out put stage > >, series > >tuned cct's and the 3 -2-1 adding transformer > >there must be enough of them about, for the transformers > >and chokes to > >be identified , the same or similar must be about .. > >tried and tested configuration ? > > > >Taking everything , via the , what appears to be , a step up , > >transformer , will provide isolation from the Ae , if > >you combine at > >50 ohms , then everything will pass back to the amps , via the > >combiner , > > > >Could be totally wrong of course, but there must of been a > > reason for > >the lay out , when other multi unit pa's used 50 ohm combining > >networks > >but its tried and tested and what's better than 2 500w power > >modules ? .. 3 of course ,) > > > >73-G, > > > > > > > > > > > >-------------------------------------------------- > >From: "Chris Wilson" > >Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 3:10 PM > >To: "Graham" > >Subject: Re: LF: Poor aerial connection affecting gate waveforms?? > > > >> Hello Graham, > >> > >> Saturday, April 15, 2017, 2:14:17 PM, you wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> Chris, > >>> > >>> I assume , due to the Q any small variation , will move the > >>> tune point about , but looking in the data base , Signals , > >>> better last night to sv8 than the previous night , and may be > >>> up 1 db at pa7 , not to say the noise was less , but at -10 db > >>> that level will be much higher than the local noise level , > >>> should be a reliable indication > >>> > >>> How important are the wave forms ? > >>> > >>> 73-G, > >> > >> > >> I don't know how important they are I am not a FET ;) All I know is > >> the output transformer and the LP filter bank central toroid > >run a lot > >> cooler if the wave forms aren't all spiky. I hope someone can say how > >> critical this is? Nothing went pop, so presumably not ultra critical, > >> but heat = lost power I would think? Cheers G! > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Best regards, > >> Chris mailto:dead_fets@gmail.com > >> > >> > > > >--- > >This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > >https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > > > > --f403045da69c8d068a054d37920b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
There is nothing complicated about ferrites used in transf= ormers. =C2=A0 =C2=A0You don't need "original"materials.=C2= =A0 In fact it would benefit greatly from using more modern materiuals and = FETs

=C2=A0The SMPSU world has supplied all you nee= d. =C2=A0 There are thousands of suitable cores out there. =C2=A0 Gapped fe= rrites (also common in the SMPSU world) give you inductors

'jnt




On 15 April 2017 at 17:56, Cle= mens Paul <cpaul@gmx.net> wrote:
=C2=A0>Taking=C2=A0 everything , via=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 , what appears t= o=C2=A0 be , a step=C2=A0 up ,
>transformer , will=C2=A0 provide=C2=A0 isolation=C2=A0 from=C2=A0 the= =C2=A0 Ae=C2=A0 , if
>you combine=C2=A0 at
>50 ohms , then=C2=A0 everything=C2=A0 will=C2=A0 pass=C2=A0 back to the= =C2=A0 amps , via the
>combiner ,
...
>Could be=C2=A0 totally=C2=A0 wrong=C2=A0 of course

Any change of the load impedance (R,X) on the secondary side
is seen by the PA on the primary side proportionally to the step up ratio.<= br>
>Why not=C2=A0 simply=C2=A0 build a=C2=A0 copy=C2=A0 of the=C2=A0 =C2=A0= Decca=C2=A0 out put=C2=A0 stage
>,=C2=A0 series
>tuned cct's=C2=A0 and the=C2=A0 3 -2-1=C2=A0 adding=C2=A0 transform= er

Perhaps because it is not so easy to get hold of those original transormers= and chokes
within due time?
On the other hand i find that what Andy calls "complicated splitters/c= ombiners" is not applicable
for the design used by Jay.
What could be simpler than slipping a bunch of easily available toroids ove= r two pieces of coax
and add a resistor?

73
Clemens
DL4RAJ



>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rsgb_= lf_group@blacksheep.org
>[mailto:owner-rsg= b_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Graham
>Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 6:27 PM
>To: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org
>Subject: Re: LF: Poor aerial connection affecting gate waveforms??
>
>Can only go=C2=A0 by the=C2=A0 images=C2=A0 in the links=C2=A0 I sent a= while back
>.. I was
>wondering,=C2=A0 after=C2=A0 Andy's=C2=A0 last post ,
>
>Why not=C2=A0 simply=C2=A0 build a=C2=A0 copy=C2=A0 of the=C2=A0 =C2=A0= Decca=C2=A0 out put=C2=A0 stage
>,=C2=A0 series
>tuned cct's=C2=A0 and the=C2=A0 3 -2-1=C2=A0 adding=C2=A0 transform= er
>there=C2=A0 must be enough=C2=A0 of them=C2=A0 about,=C2=A0 for the=C2= =A0 transformers
>and chokes to
>be=C2=A0 identified , the=C2=A0 same=C2=A0 or=C2=A0 similar must be=C2= =A0 about ..
>tried and tested configuration ?
>
>Taking=C2=A0 everything , via=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 , what appears to=C2=A0 b= e , a step=C2=A0 up ,
>transformer , will=C2=A0 provide=C2=A0 isolation=C2=A0 from=C2=A0 the= =C2=A0 Ae=C2=A0 , if
>you combine=C2=A0 at
>50 ohms , then=C2=A0 everything=C2=A0 will=C2=A0 pass=C2=A0 back to the= =C2=A0 amps , via the
>combiner ,
>
>Could be=C2=A0 totally=C2=A0 wrong=C2=A0 of course, but there must of= =C2=A0 been a
> reason=C2=A0 for
>the=C2=A0 lay out ,=C2=A0 when=C2=A0 other=C2=A0 multi unit=C2=A0 pa= 9;s=C2=A0 used=C2=A0 50 ohm=C2=A0 combining
>networks
>but its=C2=A0 tried and=C2=A0 tested and=C2=A0 what's better=C2=A0 = than=C2=A0 2=C2=A0 =C2=A0500w power
>modules ? .. 3 of course ,)
>
>73-G,
>
>
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------
>From: "Chris Wilson" <dead.fets@gmail.com>
>Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 3:10 PM
>To: "Graham" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
>Subject: Re: LF: Poor aerial connection affecting gate waveforms??
>
>> Hello Graham,
>>
>> Saturday, April 15, 2017, 2:14:17 PM, you wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Chris,
>>>
>>> I assume , due to the=C2=A0 Q any small=C2=A0 variation , will= =C2=A0 move=C2=A0 the
>>> tune=C2=A0 point=C2=A0 about , but=C2=A0 looking=C2=A0 in the= =C2=A0 =C2=A0data base , Signals ,
>>> better last night=C2=A0 to=C2=A0 sv8 than=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 =C2= =A0previous night , and=C2=A0 may be
>>> up=C2=A0 1 db at pa7=C2=A0 , not to say=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 noise = was less , but=C2=A0 at=C2=A0 -10 db
>>> that level=C2=A0 =C2=A0will=C2=A0 be=C2=A0 much=C2=A0 higher= =C2=A0 than the=C2=A0 local noise level ,
>>> should be a=C2=A0 reliable=C2=A0 indication
>>>
>>> How important=C2=A0 are the=C2=A0 wave forms ?
>>>
>>> 73-G,
>>
>>
>> I don't know how important they are I am not a FET ;) All I kn= ow is
>> the output transformer and the LP filter bank central toroid
>run a lot
>> cooler if the wave forms aren't all spiky. I hope someone can = say how
>> critical this is? Nothing went pop, so presumably not ultra critic= al,
>> but heat =3D lost power I would think? Cheers G!
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Chris=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 mailto:dead_fets@gmail.com
>>
>>
>
>---
>This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>



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