Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN, FREEMAIL_FROM,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, SPF_PASS,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 X-Spam-DCC: : mailn 1480; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by lipkowski.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u1) with ESMTP id v3SLuLo6025372 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 23:56:23 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1d4Dp3-0002Yn-IB for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 22:53:05 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1d4Dp2-0002Ye-K6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 22:53:04 +0100 Received: from omr-m011e.mx.aol.com ([204.29.186.11]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1d4Dox-0006OW-I1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 22:53:03 +0100 Received: from mtaomg-mcd01.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mcd01.mx.aol.com [172.26.223.207]) by omr-m011e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id AD060380008B for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 17:52:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-acb01f.mail.aol.com (core-acb01.mail.aol.com [172.27.24.1]) by mtaomg-mcd01.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 5FC8338000083 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 17:52:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 188.192.95.60 by webprd-m107.mail.aol.com (10.74.63.49) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 28 Apr 2017 17:52:57 -0400 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 17:52:57 -0400 From: Markus Vester To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-Id: <15bb68d7b68-2379-cd0e@webprd-m107.mail.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <5903B4D5.7010402@posteo.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: JAS STD X-Originating-IP: [188.192.95.60] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1493416377; bh=K2G79Fla1BfjUJ6kGWzdKRUnqGzyzQUdMr7j4ADJfUM=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=729AZydSgtQD4faYH1EuQe1y6JFQKqKPHuU+VafMI4UP53afFR0nZNVsWxoKsisUB QNIsMxkCIF6p4yiQRnyXDcu625jirF0qam3NUYvFC8wlS7aaXRFQNkodPhE8HinveM AplFUkfecFNsEs7EsG2eztm+h3wl9veZNKGUsJgM= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1adfcf5903b9b9581d X-Scan-Signature: 052e5a7ab87161a07560b72babff3441 Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC 8270.005 and DF6NM 8270.005139 at DL0AO grabber Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_66151_1008859396.1493416377190" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.75 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 11514 ------=_Part_66151_1008859396.1493416377190 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan, fascinating, energy from nothing ;-) The trick is of course that the voltag= es are added rather than power: 1 + 0.355 =3D 1.355 =3D +2.6 dB. Now at 21:43 we are apparently approaching the minimum at DL0AO. It's fasci= nating to visualize our multi-lobe antenna pattern, slowly sweeping over Eu= rope. Hope it won't rain so we can continue for a couple of hours more. Best regards, Markus -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----=20 Von: DK7FC An: rsgb_lf_group Verschickt: Fr, 28. Apr 2017 23:33 Betreff: Re: VLF: DK7FC 8270.005 and DF6NM 8270.005139 at DL0AO grabber Hi Markus,=20 A nice experiment! I'm curious about Pauls results.=20 But how can our combined signal be 2...3 dB stronger when your signal is 9= dB weaker? BTW i can see you on my grabber in 424 uHz although i am transmitting in j= ust 2.5 mHz 'distance' with a 40 dB stronger signal level :-) http://www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de/schaefer_vlf/DK7FC_VLF_Grabber2.html 73, Stefan Am 28.04.2017 23:10, schrieb Markus Vester:=20 The combined signal at DL0AO has been growing steadily during the last hour= , now at 21 UT we must be close to the maximum. For anyone who'd like to wa= tch it live, we'd like to announce an online VLF grabber in Amberg: http://df6nm.bplaced.net/dl0ao/VLFgrabber/vlfgrabber_dl0ao.htm The receive antenna is still an improvised long wire near a fence, but it = seems to work quite well already. Tom and Bernd are building an active E.pr= obe which will be installed soon. Best 73, Markus -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----=20 Von: Markus Vester An: rsgb_lf_group Verschickt: Fr, 28. Apr 2017 22:11 Betreff: VLF: DK7FC 8270.005 and DF6NM 8270.005139 Around 17 UT, DK7FC has started another carrier on 8270.005 Hz. Since 20 UT= , I am joining in on a slightly higher frequency, 8270.005 + 1/7200 Hz (i.e= . 138.89 uHz up). Compared to Stefan, I can achieve about 60% current into = 60% effective antenna height, so my ERP should be ~ 9 dB weaker.=20 The two carriers will be resolved by a 47 uHz spectrogram. But at lower res= olution (e.g. 424 uHz), they will merge into a two-hour sinusoidal beat pat= tern. The idea is to use that to indirectly measure our phase difference, b= y observing the times of maxima and minima at DL0AO in Amberg (and perhaps = also in Paul's spectrogram). As both carriers are GPS locked, the two trans= mitters (or rather the two near-field pickup probe signals which are compar= ed to GPS) will be in phase at even hours (UT), and in antiphase at odd hou= rs. Using the known path difference (178 km =3D 4.9 lambda) to DL0AO, we co= uld in principle calibrate the phase difference of our differently built ph= ase-feedback probes. This could then be used in the future to obtain 2 to 3= dB directional gain in any desired direction. One shortcoming of the measurement may be that while the 48 km path from m= yself to DL0AO is groundwave dominated, there will be a strong and variable= skywave contribution from DK7FC at 226 km. So any array steering calculate= d therefrom may be incorrect during the daytime, or for long-distance paths= with skywave from both sources. It might however be possible to account fo= r the diurnal phase change using the DK7FC-DF6NM colour-phase measurement f= rom Jan 28/29. All the best, Markus (DF6NM) ------=_Part_66151_1008859396.1493416377190 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Stefan,

fascinating, energy from nothing ;-) T= he trick is of course that the voltages are added rather than power: 1= + 0.355 =3D 1.355 =3D +2.6 dB.

Now at 21:43 we are apparently = approaching the minimum at DL0AO. It's fascinating to visualize our mu= lti-lobe antenna pattern, slowly sweeping over Europe. Hope it won't rain s= o we can continue for a couple of hours more.

Best regards,
Marku= s


-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: DK7FC <sel= berdenken@posteo.de>
An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.o= rg>
Verschickt: Fr, 28. Apr 2017 23:33
Betreff: Re: VLF: DK7FC 827= 0.005 and DF6NM 8270.005139 at DL0AO grabber

Hi Markus,

A nice experiment! I'm curious about Pauls results.
But how can our combined signal be 2...3 dB stronger when your signal is 9 dB weaker?

BTW i can see you on my grabber in 424 uHz although i am transmitting in just 2.5 mHz 'distance' with a 40 dB stronger signal level :-)
http://www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de/schaefer_vlf/DK7FC_VLF_G= rabber2.html

73, Stefan

Am 28.04.2017 23:10, schrieb Markus Vester:
The combined signal at DL0AO has been growing steadily during the last hour, now at 21 UT we must be close to the maximum. For anyone who'd like to watch it live, we'd like to announce an online VLF g= rabber in Amberg:

 http://df6nm.bplaced.net/dl0ao/VLFgrabber/vlfgrabber_dl0ao= .htm

The receive antenna is still an improvised long wire near a fence, but it seems to work quite well already. Tom and Bernd are building an active E.probe which will be installed soon.

Best 73,
Markus



-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: Markus Vester <m= arkusvester@aol.com>
An: rsgb_lf_group
Around 17 UT, DK7FC has started another carrier on 8270.005 Hz. Since 20 UT, I am joining in on a slightly higher frequency, 8270.005 + 1/7200 Hz (i.e. 138.89 uHz up). Compared to Stefan, I can achieve about 60% current into 60% effective antenna height, so my ERP should be ~ 9 dB weaker.
The two carriers will be resolved by a 47 uHz spectrogram. But at lower resolution (e.g. 424 uHz), they will merge into a two-hour sinusoidal beat pattern. The idea is to use that to indirectly measure our phase difference, by observing the times of maxima and minima at DL0AO in Amberg (and perhaps also in Paul's spectrogram). As both carriers are GPS locked, the two transmitters (or rather the two near-field pickup probe signals which are compared to GPS) will be in phase at even hours (UT), and in antiphase at odd hours. Using the known path difference (178 km =3D 4.9 lambda) to DL0AO, we could in principle calibrate the phase difference of our differently built phase-feedback probes. This could then be used in the future to obtain 2 to 3 dB directional gain in any desired direction.

One shortcoming of the measurement may be that while the 48 km path from myself to DL0AO is groundwave dominated, there will be a strong and variable skywave contribution from DK7FC at 226 km. So any array steering calculated therefrom may be incorrect during the daytime, or for long-distance paths with skywave from both sources. It might however be possible to account for the diurnal phase change using the DK7FC-DF6NM colour-phase measurement from Jan 28/29.

All the best,
Markus (DF6NM)

------=_Part_66151_1008859396.1493416377190--