Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN, FREEMAIL_FROM,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, SPF_PASS,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 X-Spam-DCC: EATSERVER: mailn 1166; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mailn.lipkowski.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u1) with ESMTP id uB4JLeQS005468 for ; Sun, 4 Dec 2016 20:21:41 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1cDcIN-0005GL-VU for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Dec 2016 19:17:55 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1cDcIN-0005GC-1s for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Dec 2016 19:17:55 +0000 Received: from omr-m006e.mx.aol.com ([204.29.186.6]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1cDcIJ-0004YM-4C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Dec 2016 19:17:53 +0000 Received: from mtaomg-mbb01.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mbb01.mx.aol.com [172.26.254.111]) by omr-m006e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 5645038000AF for ; Sun, 4 Dec 2016 14:17:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-acd04c.mail.aol.com (core-acd04.mail.aol.com [172.27.22.14]) by mtaomg-mbb01.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id DF0F138000089 for ; Sun, 4 Dec 2016 14:17:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from 188.192.95.60 by webprd-m11.mail.aol.com (10.74.15.155) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sun, 04 Dec 2016 14:17:48 -0500 Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2016 14:17:48 -0500 From: Markus Vester To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-Id: <158cb455617-6811-5cf9@webprd-m11.mail.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <003c01d24e40$fb7d6be0$f27843a0$@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: JAS STD X-Originating-IP: [188.192.95.60] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1480879069; bh=I7mTRhOQ3IiNm/qMZPb0IsTx1ycTEhhZHgfqHF6eWz0=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Gt1sx5EespzcGmEf0wmotic+JCGMjwhC5j6ka9WPHv2eazPNIdqXU/uKESV7VtT0h xp5OftmC3yLcfYcZlemAGsy/ZCqjJ4sTEYeY3LOx9Jo/kGYL3k4C2Gx7khH6Ngoxyn j91tg+lSG9WTVUYB5quFN52ibFtj4g/GttvFVvDk= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1afe6f58446bdc5e71 X-Scan-Signature: 47bc56cf120d7285917947ecca69d3b2 Subject: Re: LF: Daytime MF prpagation beyond the groundwave Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_30236_94381847.1480879068692" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.75 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 9708 ------=_Part_30236_94381847.1480879068692 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jim, I have to admit that I have no proof that the "winter anomaly" has any effe= ct on the lower ionosphere. As Roelof and others have indicated, increased = daytime MF / LF signal strength may rather be due to less (and not more) bu= ildup of absorbing D-layer ionisation during shorter daylight hours. In add= ition, QRN activity tends to be lower at least in mid latitudes. Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) =20 =20 -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----=20 Von: hvanesce An: rsgb_lf_group Verschickt: So, 4 Dez 2016 4:15 pm Betreff: RE: LF: Daytime MF prpagation beyond the groundwave #AOLMsgPart_2_b9d06bb3-c8b7-4be6-ac6d-9e48a9635763 td{color: black;} @font-= face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}@font-face {font-= family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}.aolReplacedBody p.aolmail_Ms= oNormal,.aolReplacedBody li.aolmail_MsoNormal,.aolReplacedBody div.aolmail_= MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family= :"Times New Roman","serif";}.aolReplacedBody a:link,.aolReplacedBody span.a= olmail_MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:und= erline;}.aolReplacedBody a:visited,.aolReplacedBody span.aolmail_MsoHyperli= nkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;= }.aolReplacedBody p {mso-style-priority:99; mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin= -right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; font-size:12.0pt; = font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}.aolReplacedBody p.aolmail_MsoAcetat= e,.aolReplacedBody li.aolmail_MsoAcetate,.aolReplacedBody div.aolmail_MsoAc= etate {mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char"; margin:0i= n; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:8.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif= ";}.aolReplacedBody span.aolmail_BalloonTextChar {mso-style-name:"Balloon T= ext Char"; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"Balloon Text"; font-famil= y:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}.aolReplacedBody span.aolmail_EmailStyle20 {mso-st= yle-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;= }.aolReplacedBody .aolmail_MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-= family:"Calibri","sans-serif";}@page WordSection1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margi= n:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}.aolReplacedBody div.aolmail_WordSection1 {page:= WordSection1;} Markus and Stefan, =20 Thank you for the winter anomaly reference and example. =20 Stefan originally referred to 630m and Markus=E2=80=99 comments did not spe= cifically ascribe the anomaly itself (just groundwave distance) to VLF but = I am curious: is the anomaly evident at VLF? Reliable at VLF? My question r= elates to the wiki description of an F2 layer effect, and I wondered if F2 = (and hence the anomaly) is perhaps significant in nighttime VLF propagation= , or if perhaps there is also some process similar to the F2 winter anomaly= in the D layer which would affect VLF. Do either of you have thoughts on t= he winter anomaly at VLF frequencies? =20 73, =20 Jim AA5BW =20 =20 From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacks= heep.org] On Behalf Of Markus Vester Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2016 7:09 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Daytime MF prpagation beyond the groundwave =20 Hi Andy, Stefan, daytime propagation on VLF/LF beyond a few100 km (and likely also on MF) is= dominated by ionospheric reflections, rather than groundwave. Despite lowe= r solar elevation on winter days, the ionisation is actually stronger than = in summer. This effect is known as the "winter anomaly": https://en.wikiped= ia.org/wiki/Ionosphere . =20 Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----=20 Von: F6CNI - Andy - JN19QB An: rsgb_lf_group Verschickt: So, 4 Dez 2016 12:30 pm Betreff: Re: LF: Daytime MF prpagation beyond the groundwave Hello Stefan. Sorry but I do not understand. =20 Can you explain to us scientifically why you said that there is a difference enter winter and summer for day time gr= oundwave mode of propagation ? =20 Also, an other question : can you tell us honestly which is your exact EIRP= transmitting power, because on day time groundwave there is not usual to h= ave a WSPR2 report on the 630 meters band of =E2=80=9317 dB S/N over 1500 k= m (Remember that he legal maximum power in DK is 1 Watt EIRP, and nobody ca= n ignore the law ). =20 73 Andy. =20 =20 From: DK7FC=20 Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2016 11:52 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: Daytime MF prpagation beyond the groundwave =20 Hi MF,=20 I just sent a single WSPR block and got the following results from distance= s above 300km. This is typical for the winter season. 73, Stefan 27 spots: Timestamp Call MHz SNR Drift Grid Pwr Reporter RGrid km az 2016-12-04 10:46=20 DK7FC=20 0.475682=20 -20=20 0=20 JN49ik=20 1=20 LA2XPA=20 JP33wi=20 1548=20 358=20 2016-12-04 10:46=20 DK7FC=20 0.475685=20 -17=20 0=20 JN49ik=20 1=20 OH1TSM=20 KP11db=20 1546=20 28=20 2016-12-04 10:46=20 DK7FC=20 0.475682=20 -6=20 0=20 JN49ik=20 1=20 LA8AV=20 JO59cs=20 1153=20 4=20 2016-12-04 10:46=20 DK7FC=20 0.475682=20 -12=20 0=20 JN49ik=20 1=20 LA6LU=20 JO59eq=20 1145=20 5=20 2016-12-04 10:46=20 DK7FC=20 0.475682=20 +2=20 0=20 JN49ik=20 1=20 LA3EQ=20 JO28xj=20 1012=20 351=20 2016-12-04 10:46=20 DK7FC=20 0.475682=20 -19=20 0=20 JN49ik=20 1=20 G3XKR=20 IO70ux=20 940=20 285=20 2016-12-04 10:46=20 DK7FC=20 0.475682=20 -19=20 0=20 JN49ik=20 1=20 SP5XSB=20 KO02ld=20 911=20 66=20 2016-12-04 10:46=20 DK7FC=20 0.475683=20 -6=20 0=20 JN49ik=20 1=20 G8HUH=20 IO81mg=20 851=20 288=20 2016-12-04 10:46=20 DK7FC=20 0.475674=20 -19=20 0=20 JN49ik=20 1=20 M0FMT=20 IO91ux=20 693=20 297=20 2016-12-04 10:46=20 DK7FC=20 0.475622=20 -12=20 0=20 JN49ik=20 1=20 G0VQH=20 JO02fe=20 655=20 301=20 2016-12-04 10:46=20 DK7FC=20 0.475682=20 -23=20 0=20 JN49ik=20 1=20 IW4DXW=20 JN64bw=20 563=20 151=20 2016-12-04 10:46=20 DK7FC=20 0.475684=20 +1=20 0=20 JN49ik=20 1=20 PA0RDT=20 JO11tm=20 428=20 305=20 2016-12-04 10:46=20 DK7FC=20 0.475686=20 -8=20 0=20 JN49ik=20 1=20 PA7EY=20 JO22jj=20 428=20 322=20 2016-12-04 10:46=20 DK7FC=20 0.475682=20 -4=20 0=20 JN49ik=20 1=20 PE1RKT=20 JO22fb=20 418=20 316=20 2016-12-04 10:46=20 DK7FC=20 0.475684=20 -15=20 0=20 JN49ik=20 1=20 PA3ANG=20 JO32am=20 390=20 332=20 2016-12-04 10:46=20 DK7FC=20 0.475686=20 -12=20 0=20 JN49ik=20 1=20 DL-SWL=20 JO52hp=20 381=20 20=20 2016-12-04 10:46=20 DK7FC=20 0.475681=20 +12=20 0=20 JN49ik=20 1=20 DH5RAE=20 JN68qv=20 345=20 98=20 2016-12-04 10:46=20 DK7FC=20 0.475682=20 +1=20 0=20 JN49ik=20 1=20 PI4THT=20 JO32kf=20 336=20 338=20 2016-12-04 10:46=20 DK7FC=20 0.475682=20 -12=20 0=20 JN49ik=20 1=20 PA0MLC=20 JO31aw=20 335=20 327=20 2016-12-04 10:46=20 DK7FC=20 0.475682=20 +7=20 0=20 JN49ik=20 1=20 DJ0ABR=20 JN68nt=20 329=20 101 ------=_Part_30236_94381847.1480879068692 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Jim,

I have to admit that I have no proof that= the "winter anomaly" has any effect on the lower ionosphere. As Roelof and= others have indicated, increased daytime MF / LF signal strength= may rather be due to less (and not more) buildup of absorbing D-layer ioni= sation during shorter daylight hours. In addition, QRN activ= ity tends to be lower at least in mid latitudes.

Best= 73,
Markus (DF6NM)  
  

-----Urspr=C3=BCn= gliche Mitteilung-----
Von: hvanesce <hvanesce@comcast.net>
An= : rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Verschickt: So, 4 D= ez 2016 4:15 pm
Betreff: RE: LF: Daytime MF prpagation beyond the ground= wave

Markus and Stefan,

 

Thank you for the winter anomaly reference and&= nbsp; example.

 

Stefan= originally referred to 630m and Markus=E2=80=99 comments did not specifica= lly ascribe the anomaly itself (just groundwave distance) to VLF but I am c= urious: is the anomaly evident at VLF? Reliable at VLF? My question relates= to the wiki description of an F2 layer effect, and I wondered if F2 (and h= ence the anomaly) is perhaps significant in nighttime VLF propagation, or i= f perhaps there is also some process similar to the F2 winter anomaly in th= e D layer which would affect VLF. Do either of you have thoughts on the win= ter anomaly at VLF frequencies?

 

73,

 

Jim AA= 5BW

 

 

=

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Markus Vester
Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2= 016 7:09 AM
To: r= sgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Daytime MF prpag= ation beyond the groundwave

 =

Hi Andy, Stefan,

daytime propagation on VLF/LF beyond a= few100 km (and likely also on MF) is dominated by ionospheric reflections,= rather than groundwave. Despite lower solar elevation on winter days,= the ionisation is actually stronger than in summer. This effect is kn= own as the "winter anomaly": https://en.wikipedia.o= rg/wiki/Ionosphere .  

Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
<= br>-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: F6CNI - Andy - JN19QB &= lt;f6cni@orange.fr>
An: rsgb_lf_group <

From: DK7FC <= /span>

Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2016 11:= 52 AM

Subject: LF: Daytime MF prpagation beyond= the groundwave

<= span style=3D'color: black; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";'> 

This is typical for the winter seas= on.

73, Stefan

27 spots:

<= td style=3D"padding: 0.75pt;">

Call

LA2XPA

= <= td style=3D"padding: 0.75pt;">

2016-12-04 10:= 46

<= tr><= td style=3D"padding: 0.75pt;">

-19

<= /tr><= td style=3D"padding: 0.75pt;">

301

=

IW4DXW

1

= = <= td style=3D"padding: 0.75pt;">

2016-12-04 10:= 46

= = <= td style=3D"padding: 0.75pt;">

101

Timestamp

MHz

SNR

Drift

Grid

Pwr

Reporter

RGrid

km

az=

2016-12-04 10:46

DK7FC

<= /td>

0.475682 =

-20

0

JN49ik

1

JP33wi

1548

35= 8

2016-12-04 10:46

DK7FC

0.= 475685

-17

0

JN49ik

1

OH1TSM

KP11db

1= 546

28

2016-12-04 10:46

DK= 7FC

0.475682

-6

0

<= p class=3D"aolmail_MsoNormal">JN49ik <= /p>

1

= LA8AV

JO59cs=

1153

4

2016-12-04 10:46

DK7FC

0.475682

-12

<= p align=3D"right" class=3D"aolmail_MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align: right;">= 0

JN49ik

= 1

LA6LU

J= O59eq

1145

5

2016-12-04 10:46

DK7FC

0.475682

=

+2

0

JN4= 9ik

1

LA3EQ

JO28xj

1012

351

2016-12-04 10:46

DK7FC

0.475682

-19

0

JN49ik

1

G3XKR

IO70ux

<= span style=3D"color: black;">940

285

2016-12-04 10:46

<= span style=3D"color: black;">DK7FC

0.475682

-19

0

JN49ik

<= span style=3D"color: black;">1

SP5XSB

<= span style=3D"color: black;">KO02ld

911

66

DK7FC

0.475683

-6

0

JN49ik

1

G8HUH <= /span>

IO81mg

851

288

2016-12-04= 10:46

DK7FC

0.475674

0

JN49ik

1

M0= FMT

IO91ux

693

297

2016-= 12-04 10:46

DK7FC

0.475622

<= /td>

-12

0 =

JN49ik

1

G0VQH

JO02fe

655

DK7FC

0.475682

-= 23

0

JN49ik

1

JN64bw

563 =

151 =

2016-12-04 10:46

DK7FC =

0.47= 5684

+1

0

JN49ik

PA0RDT

JO11tm

428

305

2016-12-04 10:46

DK7FC =

0.475686

-8

0

JN49ik

1

PA7EY

JO22jj <= /span>

322

2016-12-04 10:46

= DK7FC

0.475682

-4

<= span style=3D"color: black;">0

JN49ik

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PE1RKT

J= O22fb

418

316

2016-12-04 10:46

DK7FC

0.475684

=

-15

0

JN= 49ik

1

PA3ANG

JO32am

390

332

2016-12-04 10:46

DK7FC

0.475686

-12

0

JN49ik

1

DL-SWL

JO52hp

<= span style=3D"color: black;">381

20

2016-12-04 10:46

<= span style=3D"color: black;">DK7FC

0.475681

+12

0

JN49ik

<= span style=3D"color: black;">1

DH5RAE

<= span style=3D"color: black;">JN68qv

345

98

DK7FC

0.475682

+1

0

JN49ik

1

PI4THT =

JO32kf

336

338

2016-12-0= 4 10:46

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0.475682

-12

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<= span style=3D"color: black;">JN49ik

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JO31aw

335

327

201= 6-12-04 10:46

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0.475682

+7

0=

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DJ0ABR

JN68nt

329



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