Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1233; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD,SPF_PASS autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id u9TNKJuQ031224 for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2016 01:20:20 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1c0cqo-0008Px-Sa for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2016 00:15:46 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1c0cqn-0008Po-Eb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2016 00:15:45 +0100 Received: from mout0.freenet.de ([2001:748:100:40::2:2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1c0cqk-0004KH-6p for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2016 00:15:44 +0100 Received: from [195.4.92.141] (helo=mjail1.freenet.de) by mout0.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID dl4yhf@freenet.de) (port 25) (Exim 4.85 #1) id 1c0cqg-0002W7-Hy for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2016 01:15:38 +0200 Received: from localhost ([::1]:34700 helo=mjail1.freenet.de) by mjail1.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID dl4yhf@freenet.de) (Exim 4.85 #1) id 1c0cqg-0006fK-DA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2016 01:15:38 +0200 Received: from mx2.freenet.de ([195.4.92.12]:59738) by mjail1.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID dl4yhf@freenet.de) (Exim 4.85 #1) id 1c0coi-00062N-2P for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2016 01:13:36 +0200 Received: from x4d027fac.dyn.telefonica.de ([77.2.127.172]:58602 helo=[192.168.178.26]) by mx2.freenet.de with esmtpsa (ID dl4yhf@freenet.de) (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (port 587) (Exim 4.85 #1) id 1c0coh-0002i5-RH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2016 01:13:36 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <157b3bf43d2-111e-bfa3@webprd-a11.mail.aol.com> <5811C317.7000108@posteo.de> <1477585104.151596050@f13.my.com> <581255F6.9060705@abelian.org> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Wolfgang_B=c3=bcscher?= Message-ID: Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2016 01:13:32 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <581255F6.9060705@abelian.org> X-Originated-At: 77.2.127.172!58602 X-Scan-Signature: 32d4aaaf019758ff5a0d8e92eec683e6 Subject: Re: LF: Re[2]: LF: Idiot's guide to receiving Ebnaut? - Tutorial part2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.11 Content-Length: 2446 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 9287 Am 27.10.2016 um 21:31 schrieb Paul Nicholson: > > I have used the Trimble Thunderbolt with its fixed > 10uS pulse. It worked (vlfrx-tools, M-Audio 192) but > timing jitter improved after a pulse stretcher increased > the width to 1mS. As Andy says, the 10uS pulse energy > was a bit low giving poor S/N and a jittery centroid of > the smoothed pulse. > > Now I use a Ublox for timing VLF reception and this works > fine. The Thunderbolt is used for calibration and as a > reference for comparing my growing collection of GPSDOs. > > I'll be interested to see Wolf's comparison of edge > and centroid timing. I've never had any luck with > edge timing. > I compared both now, and measured the standard deviation in the GPS sync pulse timing. Used an E-MU 0202 at 192 kSamples/second. Test result: - 100 ms pulses, using *edge* detection (in the fourfold interpolated, windowed-sinc filtered signal): standard deviation about 40 to 50 ns/second - 10 us pulses, using *centroid* detection (also with fourfold interpolation): standard deviation a very respectable 25 ns/second. The interpolated waveform of what used to be a 10-us-pulse is here: http://www.qsl.net/dl4yhf/t/10us_pulse_EMU0202_192kS_interpolated.png (the green line in the center marks the length of a sample *from the soundcard*, the orange segments are interpolated). BUT... After reducing the sampling rate from 192 to 48 kHz : - standard deviation 200 ns for the edge-detection method - standard deviation 600 ns for the centroid method, reasons not understood yet (this may be a bug, or it may be caused by using integer array indices as 'x' coordinate for the centroid detection area. I will refine the algorithm for these 'very short' pulses by using polynominal interpolation for the centroid edges as well. That would be a fairer comparison.) Even with the above restrictions, 10 us sync pulses seem to be ok, if the soundcard uses a good delta-sigmal ADC (which results an almost ideal low-pass filter and thus the text-book pulse response as in the screenshot linked above). So, short answer for Jim: You can use the Thunderbolt E's 10-microsecond sync pulses as they are, no need to shape or stretch them. I will upload a new version of SL soon, but first I will try to improve the pulse timing for lower sampling rates. Cheers, Wolf . (back in "MEZ" / CET now - farewall, nice daylight-saving time.. sigh.. !)